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at studentcam. org. association that was published in may that 50% of respondents in the d.c. government affairs felt that traditional shoe leather lobbying was going to be on the decline because of the pandemic and that there would be a continued increase in digital advocacy tools like texting and emailing and things of that nature. i see a little bit differently.

i have worked with and, i have worked with a firm that helps corporations and associations educate and increase awareness and encourage employees to act. from my interaction with policymakers, staff, lobbyists. even around the country, there's really a yearning for that in person sort of over the phone face-to-face interaction. i just really felt inspired to write something that was in defense of that and in defense of the personal lobbying at the same time. host: from back in the spring, respondents to that survey were in this world of lobbying digital efficacy. 65% said it was easier to reach

elected officials by phone or videoconferencing during the pandemic easier than they expected. talk about how quickly these groups, lobbyists and advocacy groups turned to these digital tools and which ones have been most effective. guest: they pivoted pretty quickly. why don't i go back a little bit to explain why i think advocacy has been a tremendous benefit to america as a whole? by any measure, america has been a tremendous -- tremendous success. the role of the federal government and the way we as citizens interact with the government. the ratification of the constitution. the civil war. if you think about world war ii, the cold war, 9/11, 2000 eight

crisis, 2020. multiple trillions -- 2008 crisis, 2020. every american affected by this. it was forecast that none of them would be able to meet those budgets. it was a lot of volatility. i was fortunate to sit on the front row to watch thousands of applicants and over 11,500 registered lobbyists on capitol hill working together to understand. maybe not together on specific issues, but working to help interpret volatility happening at one time and explain to their stakeholders what was going to

happen to them and go back to policymakers and try to explain what the impact of that would be. the tools that were used, texting tools, emailing members of congress. zoom meetings. all of those things that took place that helps get registration over the goal line. in my opinion, a lot of the trust and credibility for all of the success that happens were years in the making when you had advocates, lobbyists meeting with members of congress face-to-face coming to d.c., going to their offices. having conversations, i think a lot of that trust and credibility was established when the digital tools really helped amplified those messages and concerns during the pandemic. it was able to coalesce.

host: if you have questions about how lobbying works, now is a great time to call in. democrats 202-748-8000, republicans 202-748-8001, independent 202-748-8002, having this conversation with dan ekstein into the top of the hour. when it comes to lobbying on capitol hill in washington dc, here are some numbers courtesy of open secrets. 2015, that number was at 3.2 billion. about the same. it was less than 2005, 2 .4 billion. you are talking about the shift that zoom and texting. with all that money spent on lobbying, how often do lobbyists

actually get to meet with the member of congress themselves? was it easier for members of congress to have a staffer or someone besides himself make that connection since it was just a digital connection anyway? guest: if i could go back to some of the statistics that you cited. i think about moments in time and putting some of these numbers into context. the national retail federation tracks spending every year. there was multibillion dollars spent for federal lobbying, but every year americans spend about $8 billion on the wane. i could make an argument that we as a country don't spend enough on advocating on our behalf. the ability for members does desk to quickly switch to digital tools. there are data that state

members did embrace these tools and they were able to have further conversations with their constituents. there's also statistics in the same surveys that preference from both members of congress and their staff is to have some sort of in-person connection. i'm not suggesting not to be careful, but there is a yearning on the policymaker to the policymaker staff to every american to want to come and petition their government. host: everyday americans call washington dc. they talk about those phone calls they made often when they call in to this program. how do those calls work? who answers those phone calls? are they affected in persuading the member at the end of the day? guest: congressional offices, they have staff that are dedicated to picking up the

phone and answering calls. usually, those staff members have a tally sheet that they keep track of the types of issues that constituents are calling about. the questions a constituent that has to happen whether the constituent is having a -- having an issue with their government. each congressional office has their on process and protocol. for the staff that those offices have to filter out and prioritize how to respond. host: bill is in florida, independent. good morning. caller: i've got a question. what can a lobbyist do for a member of congress in terms of

campaign contribution? what can a lobbyist do in terms of sending out materials like he's advocating for but have the member of congress name on it? what can the lobbyist do for a member of congress other than going and meeting directly with them? guest: that's very good question. my initial response is they can be an honest broker. i think of a lobbyist, the two words that come to mind to me are credibility and transparency. the lobbyist that i have the pleasure to interact with, their first role is to be an interpreter. they need to have some understanding of the legislative process, understand the

political landscape, establish trust and credibility, work with for-profit and not-for-profit organizations, take that information back. explain their expression explain their perspective. the member of congress may agree or disagree on those issues, but i think it's important that communication is there. that is why in-person opportunities are so important where you can establish trust and credibility. you also brought up different concept of conch -- campaign contributions. there's a concept of a three legged stool. what the most effective advocacy programs will be based on, three legs of that school. traditional lobbying, interacting with numbers of congress and staff.

grassroots mobilization, encouraging everyday citizens that care about certain issues that affect them to speak up. there is a campaign-finance component. those are the three legs of that stool. lobbying and campaign contributions, united states is a regular did activity. we are fortunate the lives that we are fortunate to live in a system and there are nuances with some parts of campaign finance. it is a very regulated and transparent process. you can look up at your federal and state level how contributions are made. host: you talk about the importance of transparency. we mentioned your work at the national association of political action committees. what is that group? are you currently a registered lobbyist? guest: i am not a registered

lobbyist. 50-year-old organization that was created to encourage best practices. i would also fight and defend campaign finance and policies to ensure more employees, more americans have a greater voice through their organizations. there is probably over two hundred 50 members of the national association. i'm not -- 250 members. i am a host: --host: david out of ashland, mississippi. caller: good morning. i would like to know what exactly is the difference between lobbying and bribery. exactly how much does it cost to get a vote? guest: good question. i have a slightly different

perspective. i know there is some contempt with the concept of lobbying, but with my interaction i have not ever observed or heard of situations where from my direct narrative for the has been any sort of bribery taking place. campaign contributions are regulated in the united states. there are laws on the books that have civil and criminal penalties if there were some sort of bribery. the organizations that i work with, i'm always in all of the amount of that chef the amount of effort not only with compliance with the law but really making sure that their advocacy is above board as can be and is transparent as possible. host: is lobbying in the constitution? guest: yes, we have a right to petition the government. i would encourage every american to contact your member of

congress at any time on any matter that impacts you. please, come to d.c.. do it legally and respectfully. one of the things that has been missing because of the pandemic is the opportunity for everyday americans to come to washington and petition their government. host: from the first amendment, make no law abridging the freedom of speech and to petition the government for redress of grievances. that is what lobbyists .2 in the constitution for their work. this is what jim says. most reps have no idea how proposed legislation will impact a specific industry and its lobbyists explain the depth desk explain the benefits and shortcomings of it. guest: i have a former boss was

a good friend of mine who is a local elected official. he basically said look, there are things i am passionate about. this particular person is passionate about green space. no one had to educate him. he also had a background in financial services. he understood the broadbrush issue that related to banking and financial services. there are lots of other issues that came across his desk. people had concerns that he did not have any particular passion for or background in, so he relied on organizations and individuals to provide perspective to how those issues would be impacting them. a good lobbyist, someone who understands both sides of the issues, can go to the desk can go and say this is what our opponents may view this but we

would like you to consider our view and really leave it to the staff and dashed to the staff to make a decision. host: if you want to join the conversation. democrats 202-748-8000, republicans 202-748-8001, independent 202-748-8002. bismarck, republican. caller: i have a quick statement and a question. a number of years ago, my future wife came over from europe. we were going to get married and she came over on a fiancee visa. she had all of her paperwork lost or stolen at the minneapolis airport. so she was in this dumbo --

limbo. i contacted one of our senators from north dakota and i told them the situation. within two hours, she shows up at my hotel. it was all taken care of. my question to you, was i a lobbyist just now or just then when i called my senator and got his help? guest: i think that's a great story. we just saw this through the tragedy and efforts that happened as we were evacuating leaving afghanistan. there was a group in d.c. was profiled in the newspapers recently that really worked together to try to get as many both american citizens and allies out and were lobbying members of congress.

many multiple members of congress to help get people out. yes, you were lobbying at that moment. successfully so congratulations to you. i think the biggest misperception is that you can pay for a vote. one of the things that i've, my experience tells me, the average race, to win an average success race is to me and dollars. the average senate race is $10 million. i say that because the campaign-finance rules limit personal and corporate affiliated contributions. a couple thousand dollars per election whether it's a primary or general. you can pay for a vote is misplaced because it takes a lot of money to run for office.

individuals, members of congress, candidates have to go out there and encourage contributions. those are usually in small dollars. contributions are publicly reported. you can go to www.sec.gov. you can look at open as asians that are making contributions. host: stephanie and lewis -- guest: you can look at donations and contributions. caller: my congressional representative, i know previously americans put eight-man dollars into halloween every year, but when you put it down to an individual person, there's a big miss balance what

i can contribute versus a big company. an additional comment is i wonder about the transparency of when the company is putting money behind a lobbyist. i feel like sometimes the transparency is that there versus an individual person. stockholders, i feel like the transparency is in there sometimes. guest: i appreciate your perspective. lobbying is a regulated activity. there are 11,005 hundred or so registered lobbyists. i encourage you to go to the house of senate.gov -- the house of senate website. you can find the disclosure forms. companies file and lobbyists filed almost on a quarterly

basis. my perspective could -- my perspective, could there be more transparency? of course. but he actually do think we have a very transparent system. i think one of the reasons this profession is so open to scrutiny is because it is accountable. how one lobbies and other countries and i think the u.s., democracy is the worst form of government except it's better than the rest. host: dave on twitter with this question. would it reduce the role of the lobbyists? guest: it wouldn't reduce the roll because campaign for ninths -- because lobbying and campaign finance are two separate things. if there was some sort of

funding of how those candidates would be elected to office, that would not impact an individual's ability to call their member of congress or come to d.c. or meet with them face-to-face. host: the article by dan eckstein. if you want to read it, a partner at public affairs. than

susan page about her biography, madame speaker. >> that election night was a shock for her and many others. she said that once she realized donald trump was going to win, it was like a mule was kicking her physically. by the end of the night, she decided she was not going to go anywhere. she was going to use -- to stay and try to stand up to donald trump and protect democratic priorities. >> susan page, tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span's q&a. you can find all of the q&a interviews wherever you get your podcasts. >> c-span's washington journal.

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