armed protests in the united states with roudabah kishi. you can join the conversation on facebook, twitter, or by text message. washington journal is next. ♪ host: it is the washington journal for september 7. as of today all the expanded unemployment benefits have expired, impacting millions. the biden administration said they still have to aid and assistance even after the low jobs report. we ask you whether you think there is the case to extend or not extend benefits. here is how you can call to let us know. if you are unemployed,

(202)-748-8000. if you are employed, (202)-748-8001. employers (202)-748-8002 and all others (202)-748-8003. you can also text us at (202)-748-8003, post at the facebook page at facebook.com/c-span, and tweet us @c-spanwj. report in the new york times, they say the $1.9 trillion aid package mr. biden signed in march included expanded and extended benefits for unemployed workers like the $300 per week federal supplement, additional weeks of assistance for the long-term unemployed, and the extension of a special program to provide benefits to so-called gig workers who traditionally do not qualify. the expiration date reached monday means 7.5 million people will lose their benefits entirely and another 3 million

will lose the $300 weekly supplement. mr. biden and his advisors have pointedly refused to call on congress to extend the benefits further. a decision that reflects the view of the state of the recovery and said the administration and the president's desire to focus on winning support for his broader economic agenda. one of the people on the sunday shows this week talking the state of unemployment. labor secretary marty walsh talked about the expiration. here is part of that exchange [video clip] >> let's start with the federal unemployment assistance expiring today. that money has been a lifeline for millions of families the last year and a half. what happens to them now? >> thank god we had it at the beginning of this pandemic because people would have gone through more devastation during this pandemic. what we have done as we are looking at -- this bill was

voted on by congress, the american rescue plan, and today was the day the $300 extension will end. we have allowed governors to look at using cares money -- actually, rescue plan money to extend the benefits if they need to. the right is different across the country. it is about how do we get the economy back and running? the problem is we have the delta variant that is not working with us. we are seeing numbers higher so we have to keep an i on what is going on moving forward. host: the labor secretary from monday talking about the unemployment benefits. what do you think of this idea of expanding unemployment benefits? here is how you can call to let us know. for the unemployed (202)-748-8000, for the employed (202)-748-8001, and for employers (202)-748-8002.

you can text us at (202)-748-8003. the associated press, when highlighting the money spent on extension of benefits, makes this saying, the amount of money that was injected into jobless benefits is nothing short of astronomical. the roughly $650 billion cap to millions of americans who lost their jobs through no fault of their own paying for food and gasoline, keeping up with bills. the few defaults on loans the past 18 months were blamed on government relief efforts. this adds the ending of the programs comes as the u.s. economy recovered from the pandemic. with substantial gaps the labor department says there are 7.5 million fewer jobs than before the pandemic but also estimated last month there were roughly 10

million job openings. if you want to let us know on the phone lines on what you think, you can do that. people posting on the facebook page. this is deanna saying, any money that goes into the citizens' pockets goes into the economy. one way or another the economy is for people to shop. if they do not get money to shop, there is no economy. tori saying, no, there is no reason to get to work. if you are not working, it is because you do not want to work or can't -- not because you can't. charles saying, the virus is here to stay. free money is for everyone forever. robert hancock saying, they have tried everything, just not paying a living wage. if you cannot pay your workers, you don't deserve to be in business, period.

you can reach us on facebook and twitter @c-spanwj. the labor secretary you heard from monday but on sunday the white house chief of staff talked about the states efforts in providing unemployment. here is part of that exchange. [video clip] >> president biden says the states can use leftover stimulus funds to extend benefits on their own, but according to the washington post, no states have indicated they plan to do so. the delta variant is wreaking havoc on the economy still. why did the president make the decision to let these benefits expire and not push to extend them again? >> congress when they passed these benefits set the expiration date. >> right. >> i would say the delta variant is having an impact but not so much on employment. we are at the lowest unemployment rate we have seen in this country in a year and a half, 5.2%.

we added jobs every month we have been here. the states were given money as part of the rescue plan in march to deal with the consequences of any economic dislocation due to covid. states are using that money in different ways. one of those is employment bonuses, paying people to take jobs. other states providing employment training or counseling. these benefits expire under law this coming week and we think the states have the tools they need to help people move from unemployment to employment. we have more unfilled jobs in this country than any time on record of measuring unfilled jobs. we think the jobs are there and the states have the resources they need to move people from unemployment to employment. host: you heard the chief of staff reference the unemployment rate. as it currently stands right now for august it is 5.2%. the jobs report from last week

saying when it comes to jobs added, 235,000. now is your chance to let us know what you think about extending these on employment benefits or not and you can call the lines or post on various means on social media. this is from john in virginia on the unemployment line. what you think about the extension idea? caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i have been working all my life until covid shows up. but the problem is i am 50 something years old. i get laid off because of that. having said that, i am still looking for a job because sometimes in our age companies do not look at hiring people like us. here's the thing, thank god i still have something to live with. but the problem i have here is people in this country, we are spending $300 million and afghanistan daily but we don't want to help our own people when they need help. i can assure you this, people

are going to struggle and here in virginia the cost of living is going up. people cannot afford food and rent. they are leaving us on the street but that is not how america should be. host: if i may ask, what was your industry? what work are you looking for? caller: i was looking for the transportation business. because of covid the company's filed bankruptcy. they get money from the government and never call the employees back. this talking point of the restaurants saying, we don't have employees, pedro, if the employees get more money from unemployment, that tells you they do not pay employees. if i can make more money being unemployed, why should i go back to work? host: was that the case when it comes to your own situation? did you receive any of those benefits that have already expired? caller: yes, i did.

but i do not want to benefits staying home. i am looking for a job but the reality is the cost-of-living is so high here that no matter what you do you cannot pay your bills. we are behind our rent, we are behind everything, and they don't want help for their own people. host: that was john in virginia giving us his perspective. the unemployed line is one way to reach out to us and talk about that, (202)-748-8000. we have the line for those employed, (202)-748-8001. and for those employers (202)-748-8002. all others get (202)-748-8003. some people texting this morning. this is bob from hometown, illinois saying, do not extend. america needs to get back to work. our future is hanging in the balance.

we cannot afford more free stuff. lisa from facebook saying, for the extension of unemployment benefits only those for vaccinated. brian miller saying, no printing money out of thin air. it only leads to more inflation and further dollar devaluation. social media is the way to reach out to us as well. the new york times analysis saying the president's most senior economic advisers saying the economy is in the process of completing that handoff in the labor market. support for the law wanes as more americans return to work. adding mr. biden is pushing congress to pass to measures that constitute a multitrillion dollar agenda focused on longer run economic growth, a bipartisan infrastructure bill and larger infrastructure bill.

this idea of expanding on a planet benefits or not, specifically to the pandemic, this is ricardo in los angeles on the unemployed line. caller: i just want to clear something up about the pandemic unemployment and insurance in california. they claimed they were defrauded. they sent billions to people in jail, people overseas, i don't know what happened but the system is so antiquated it could not handle the millions of claims coming in. therefore they had to put a freeze on the whole program. i have not received any pandemic unemployment benefits at all for this year, 2021, nothing. all this talk about, they are paying people to stay home and the benefits they talk about we are getting, it is fraud. host: how long have you been unemployed?

caller: pardon me? host: how long have you been unemployed? caller: too long. host: what kind of work did you do? caller: i was in telemarketing. they killed that industry but you still have people calling you, texting or emailing you. they do it with cell phones now. they killed the whole industry in telemarketing. host: how is it that you specifically did not receive benefits? caller: i fill them out and send them back but i do not get any checks. it is just the forms to fill out because if you miss one week, you have got to start at the end of the line. i have not missed any weeks. fill out the forms the way they are supposed to be filled out and they keep coming but no money comes. host: that was ricardo from los angeles. joel from arkansas on the line from others.

caller: thank you for taking my call this morning. this money is coming from the taxpayers' money that gets up every day and go to work. i worked three jobs in my life. i worked two jobs and slept eight hours a day. these people are milking the system. it is time for them to go to work. joe biden cannot do anything for you, republicans cannot do anything for you. the bible says, teacher man how to fish and he will learn how to feed himself. host: when you say they are milking the system, what do you mean and how did you come to that conclusion? caller: they are working under the table collecting this money and then they go out and work under the table. i know this for a fact. they don't pay taxes and they don't pay social security. i don't want to get my family involved. thank you.

host: that was joel in arkansas. nbc when looking at the issues of the lapsed unemployment benefits and asking, good the pandemic unemployment benefits be extended? they make this case say, while the ongoing public health crisis could make people think twice about the cut off of benefits people are holding out hope in extension, but there is not political momentum behind that. it is not clear enough that lawmakers would support the continuation of benefits. most critics are primarily focused on whether the $300 weekly boost incentivizes people from finding new work. while he sees little work to continue that boost it does not mean we have to cut off at everything saying worker advocacy groups called for making temporary programs like the ones that expire this week in order to address the vulnerable and marginalized workers left out of traditional systems. americans most likely to be put into those programs including

the long-term unemployed, self-employed freelancers, gig workers, part-time workers and caregivers. also disproportionately black, hispanic, asian women and low income workers. those are some impacted by the lapsing of these programs. we are asking you if you think there is the case to be made or not to extend those benefits and you can call. one people talking about jobs overall was president biden last week. we showed you the jobs numbers report from august. he took some time friday to comment on that, to the larger state of the economy as well. here is president biden from friday. [video clip] >> as we head into labor day weekend we have more evidence of progress of the economy from last year's economic calamity. the economy created 235,000 new jobs in august of the

unemployment rate fell to 5.2%, the lowest in 18 months. but despite the impact of the delta variant, and i will talk about that in a minute, what we are seeing is an economic recovery that is durable and strong. the biden plan is working. we are getting results. america is on the move again. today's revision of previous job gains, with revision of july numbers, this means we have been adding an average of 750,000 jobs per month during the past three months. the three months before i became president, well, we were adding 60,000 jobs a month. total job creation in the first seven months of my administration is nearly double any prior first-year president. while i know others wanted to see a larger number, and so did i, we have seen continued growth month over month in job

creation. it is not just that i added more jobs than any first-year president it is that we have added jobs in every single one of my first seven job reports and wages are going up. some more jobs, some months fewer, some months more, but always adding jobs. this is the growth that makes our economy stronger and consistent and not boom or bust. host: the president did speak more about the job situation. if you want to go to the website at c-span.org, you can find it. when it comes to the august report he was referencing his comments about the job situation, when it comes to professional and business services 74,000 jobs added, 53,000 in the transportation and warehouses, manufacturing 37,000 jobs. but when it comes to retail trade there was a loss of 29,000

jobs and food and beverage stores 23,000 jobs lost. that unemployment rate 5.2% overall but when you break it down to certain sectors -- on the unemployed line we are talking about the idea of whether to extend unemployment benefits or not. what do you think? caller: i think we are forgetting about covid in this. i am a musician in my band did not play for 18 months until the vaccine got enough people to take it in maryland that we started playing again. lo and behold, the anti-vaxxers put the kabash on that.

we can play outside but a lot of the gigs we cannot take. musicians really count on these gigs and they cannot play. i think that a lot of offices, people don't want to go to work because they are scared they are going to get covid. i wish the people who don't want to take vaccines would consider they are putting a drag on the economy. host: there was one specific program of unemployed extension specifically to gig workers. did you take advantage or were you eligible? caller: i am probably eligible. personality i haven't because i am also an architect so i do not rely on the money for playing music, but the other people in my band are trying to take advantage. i do not know if they have been successful. host: let's hear from mark in birchwood, tennessee on the unemployed line. go ahead. caller: good morning, america. good morning to c-span, thank you for taking my call. i will tell you about my

personal experience. i quit a job right before the pandemic hit in february. i had to rely on my own wits which became aluminum cans, painting houses, mowing yards and eventually i had to cash in a 401(k) and sell my home. i will say this, we should extend the benefits and to the employer' that cannot find anybod to work for them, they were caught with their pants down before the pandemic and they are treating their people the same way. i don't understand it. host: for you able to take advantage of the unemployment benefits? caller: no, no i wasn't. i quit and the state i live in they would not grant me those benefits. i have been out of work since february. host: what was your employment situation before that?

caller: i worked for a manufacturing pound. they were not treating me well so i decided, i can do better than this. host: let me ask you this, as far as where you live in tennessee what are the opportunities like? we heard the cases being made as far as the available jobs. what is the situation in birchwood as far as anything available to you? caller: it is a real rural community. there are probably about four or five convenience stores. you have to drive 10, 15, 20 miles to get a job. tennessee leads the state in the most minimum-wage jobs available. i am 60 years old and i just decided i am going to make it on my own and get out of the workforce completely because the jobs i get offered, they are not worth anything.

they are not worth the time i make the money off of. host: how do you plan to sustain yourself if that is the case? caller: well, i moved into my dead parents' house and i am going to sell it and i have a tractor i am going to sell and move to another part of tennessee and live my life out there. host: that was mark in birchwood, tennessee. several unemployed folks calling this morning and giving their perspective when it comes to the extension of benefits or if they should be extended. we have also set a line for those employed and those employers if you want to give us your perspective on this. patrick is texting us saying, he is employed from glen bernie. i understand the idea of extending benefits but people need to get back to work. throwing money at us again fuels inflation independency. why should we bust our butts so others can sit around? karen saying, absolutely not.

there are jobs to be had. people need to start getting back to work and get this economy moving again. free money is gone. get a job. the government cannot afford to keep supporting you. this is also from our twitter feed. a viewer saying, wear our mask get vaccinated. the unemployment argument would solve itself because people are afraid to go to work, especially in the service industry because they come into contact with unvaccinated people on a regular basis. from carl on the twitter feed saying, benefits should be extended. the reason the federal government and states do not extend the benefits is because they only represent the barbaric interest of capitalism. people work in the pandemic in dangerous conditions that benefits capitalism. twitter is @c-spanwj. you can post on the facebook page. one of the people who made comments about the economy was

the federal reserve chair jay powell talking about the impact of the pandemic on workers. here is a portion of that speech from last month. [video clip] >> the pandemic recession, the briefest yet deepest on record, displaced roughly 30 million workers in the space of two months. the decline in output in the second quarter of 2020 was twice the full decline during the great recession. but the pace of the recovery has exceeded expectations with output surpassing its previous peak after only four quarters. less than half the time required following the great recession. as is typically the case, the recovery in employment has lagged in output. nonetheless, employment gains have come faster than expected. the economic downturn has not fallen equally on all americans and those least able to shoulder the burden have been hardest

hit. in particular, despite progress, joblessness continues to fall disproportionately on lower wage workers in the service sector and on african-americans and hispanics. host: this is mike in pasadena, texas on the line for others. go ahead. caller: i would just like to say that people that sit there on their behind and talk about people who don't want to go to work, you know, there is help wanted signs all over texas. there are jobs there. they can be had anywhere but people are, like they just said, getting hit unevenly. the poor continue to get poorer. they continue to be mauled by

this thing. they cannot go back to work because of health care, home care, childcare. there are so many things holding them back. the schools are inundated with covid. it is just a problem of our economy will survive, it is strong, but right now the workers have the upper hand and we will have to see how it plays out. thank you for your help in taking the time to put it all out in the open. hopefully we can get this country back on the right road. host: the washington times in the editorial this morning talked about the president's efforts, highlighting some of those things some viewers have made saying it was in june about 1.8 million out of work americans said they turned down jobs because of the generosity of unemployment.

the small business report in july said labor quality is the biggest concern to mom-and-pop shops. 26% of respondents identify it as the single most important problem. of those surveyed 63% said those are trying to hire. 89% said there were few or no qualified applicants. from roger in kansas, employer. good morning. good morning, roger. caller: good morning. i have some employees and during covid one of my employees did get covid and i was really concerned because he had just reached 70. he had some health issues but he came through ok. i have had the shot.

i believe all my employees have had the shot. we are in agriculture so we had no option. the cattle have to be fed, the crops have to be put in, all of the work has to be done. i also have some rentals so i see both sides. i see the people who cannot survive because they can't do all of the covid problems and they have health issues. there is just not enough money. i have probably two people who are way behind in rent and i don't have the heart to do anything about it. host: do you think --. go ahead. caller: i just try to work with them. why don't we just flip this whole situation? anybody who makes under $50,000 would keep the check if they can

show they are paying taxes, they get another check. you would see this turnaround quickly. host: that was roger in kansas on the line for employers. we are asking this half hour to comment on unemployed or employed. we will switch gears now. other things happening in the world including afghanistan and the like. you can participate in that or comment on the unemployment situation. this half hour of open forum until 8:00. democrats (202)-748-8000, republicans (202)-748-8001, independents (202)-748-8002. if you would like to post on the open forum on social media, facebook's facebook.com/c-span and you can tweet us

@c-spanwj and text us at (202)-748-8003. the latest concerning afghanistan from the new york times saying the taliban claim yesterday to have captured the valley, raising the flag over the last capital not under their control. representatives of the opposition forces maintained they would fight on from the mountains. if the taliban managed to keep this under control it would be a, capstone to the lightning quick conquest and return to power. the last time they ruled afghanistan from 1996 until 2001 adding there was a launching point for the u.s. invasion after september 11. if you go in the new york times, photographs from in afghanistan, including the one here from victor blue. the latest pictures coming out of the area of the world as that still goes on.

you can comment on that in the open forum. when it comes to what is going on, texas considering the abortion law. this is from merrill kornfield. after the law restricting abortion went into law wednesday the abortion organization had hoped to out to those that got one by outing them online. whistleblower.com invited people to inform on those obtaining or facilitating abortions did not stay up for long. providers said the online forms to support whistleblower reports violates the rules. on monday the organization confirmed it would redirect to the main page and find a new digital home for the form. this also quotes kimberly schwartz telling the washington post, "we are exploring long

time plans for the domain registration. for now, pro-life whistleblower.com is redirecting." more of that story at the washington post. open forum until 8:00. you can comment on the unemployment or other things that interest you in the realm of politics. greg in pennsylvania, independent line is first up. thank you for calling. go ahead. caller: you're welcome. by far you do the best job of any of the moderators. it is impossible for me and i have been watching c-span for 30 plus years to detect any bias in who you think should have been elected or not elected. i think you are the model for how the moderators should do their job. almost all of the other ones are

clear where they are leaning. host: i will speak for my colleagues as we all make the attempt to give it straight as far as no personal way but thank you for the compliment. go ahead with your thoughts. caller: as to what is going on right now, there are so many things. this is ridiculous what is going on in the unemployment situation. i think the last guy from kansas had an interesting idea. if you get a job, you get extra. i think that is a great idea. but as for the unemployment situation, it is the result of what china did. it is the result of what china did. if hunter's dad cares so much about workers, especially minorities, why isn't he doing more against china? why isn't he demanding china

explain how this got out of wuhan or if it did get out of wuhan? or why they said it was an american military team that came over for a competition in 2019? why? why? it is all about, look over here at the shiny object, the gas lighting. earlier before washington journal you had former secretary johnson on and he said, yes he did, look it up, the worst threat to the united states is domestic terrorism from white supremacists. are you kidding me? host: that was greg in pennsylvania giving his thoughts on the open forum. you can find out what we do on the network at c-span.org. all those available in the video library. you can research topics of any interest of years at the site -- yours at the site.

linda in mississippi on the democratic line. caller: good morning. my thought for the day is those americans that were left in afghanistan. some of those were left over because in april the biden administration told them to get out. because of the timeline that trump put us on. some people left over there now wanted to stay, drag their feet, and did not want to go and some of them still do not want to go. i do not think it should be laid at biden's feet because they hesitated and decided to stay until the last minute. we have domestic terrorists over here and we need to try to secure this country that we live and then that we love so much.

september 11 is coming up and we are still under threat. not from another country but from within. host: that was linda in mississippi. when it comes to americans in afghanistan cnn reporting the united states facilitated the departure of four american citizens via overland route with a third country, according to a state department official on monday. "our embassy greeted the americans as they crossed the border into the third country. the official confirming these of the first four americans but they facilitated in this manner since the withdraw from afghanistan. they are a woman and her three children from texas." according to the oklahoma republican mullin, working to get americans in special visa holders out of afghanistan. alan is up next from north carolina on the independent line.

alan in elizabeth city, hello. caller: i am in south carolina. host: sorry about that. go ahead. caller: my main concern is i was listening to powell and when they bring up the stimulus and unemployment they always say minorities but i live outside charlotte and most of the work down here by gig workers, construction workers, landscapers are minorities. most of those getting the benefits are the white people. they do not mention that on tv. everybody is talking about minorities. everybody here is working. i don't understand. host: ok. that was alan on the independent line in south carolina. in regards to afghanistan, the hill reporting this money the secretary of state antony blinken will go before the

foreign relations committee on the 14th to testify about the withdrawal from afghanistan. it is the first scheduled public hearing with officials since late last month saying the senate foreign relations committee hearing is "on examining the u.s. withdraw from afghanistan." a spokesman did not immediately respond for testimony on additional administration officials. host: new jersey, independent line. caller: i am trying to recall years ago if it would apply today what happened in saigon. at that time everybody had to get out immediately but no one, no one, republican or democrat, complained about what we did. we all came together to help

them and the irony of it is, today, that nation has welcomed them back, us, in their eyes and arms and we signed an agreement with them. don't believe that what happened immediately is the eventual outcome. i am hoping and praying that our removal from afghanistan, keeping in mind that we are not dealing with the nation of one ethnic group. we are dealing with so many different tribes and we are not in a position to do anything to get them to come together. it is sad but it is reality. there was hope. last night on the news hour which i watch, which not many people watch, the ngo has a group in there. they are growing grapes and blueberries and training the farmers to do another crop. things are happening.

don't be so narrow focused. we just have to understand it takes time. host: that was josephine in livingston, new jersey. this is from joe in kentucky saying, in my area jobs pay $7.25 an hour. no way you can live that. people are unvaccinated and they will not risk their lives on a wage they cannot live. frank in oregon saying, i think the one-time payment of $5,000 for adults and $1500 for children is needed, plus when you're of grocery supplements at $300 per month. the reason employers are not able to pay wages that match our nation's increased cost of living adjustment. you can continue on with the previous question if you wish or bring something new to the mix. from washington, independent line this is sonja. caller: good morning.

i just wanted to bring up, and i know this is getting flooded flaunted around, the wolves got taken off the endangered list. the state of montana, idaho, wisconsin, and i do not know if they have started their hunts, but they are using disgusting ways to murder the wolves. about 40% of the people that do this kind of trophy hunting -- and i am not saying normal hunting -- they actually have violent records or they have been sexual assault. the montana governor even got in trouble. it is sad they are going out and destroying our wolves like this for no reason or because the ranchers get upset when the cattle that the humans were going to eat gets eaten by a wolf instead. host: i pulled up a story from

npr saying, at the time, this administration decided to stand by the policy when it comes to gray wolves. what you think about that? caller: i don't like that at all. i did not know that and i will say something about it for sure. why would they do that? they are not a threat right now. host: i will say this was two weeks ago so maybe something more recent in the works. let me ask you this, how did you get so involved in the gray wolf cause? caller: years and years ago i had a hybrid gray wolf and i have always loved wolves. i have lived in alaska and washington and they are beautiful. there is just no reason to be killing them. plus, they keep the ecosystem in balance. they keep out the small animals that end up terrorizing everything and it is sad and

they are beautiful animals. the one we had, she was half wild but she was just beautiful and they are god's creatures. i think the saddest thing is the way they are killing them and trapping. it raises their testosterone and they enjoyed the killing and it is just sad we are allowing this to happen. i did not know biden did that. host: just pulling up the story from two weeks ago but you might want to do further research. just that caveat but this is the story from npr. check that out if you wish. william in houston, texas, go ahead. caller: good morning. thank you, c-span and america. to say -- two things i would like to say. these people talking about we never leave people behind.

remember vietnam, we left many people behind. i just hope you guys never have to fight a jungle war because you would be in serious trouble. these organizations, you can put the uniform back on, and not the u.s. uniform, but the mercenary uniform on. if you are 45 to 50 years old and you are an accounting, engineer, things of that nature, you are not going to be hired for service jobs. corporate america is like they always do. when they find a way to cut, they find a way to get around what you're doing. those jobs are being outsourced overseas. look them up, that is what they do. they outsource it. i told my son the other day, your benefits have been cut, you applied for jobs all over, and

you are an engineer. host: may i ask a question? you said you were in vietnam. when you hear comparisons from what went on in afghanistan and saigon what you think about the comparisons? caller: i think it is bs. i do not see them guys going on patrols in the mountains in afghanistan. 2500 people is not going to stop anything. it is not comparative. nothing compares to vietnam especially because vietnam was -- and when the military starts paying-- host: that was william in texas. margaret also in texas on the independent line. caller: good morning. how are you? host: i'm well. how about yourself? caller: i'm doing just fine. my main thing, and it has been for many years, is climate

change. we have seen what has happened recently because we have ignored it for so many years. with the storms we are having and the fires, and although i am concerned about some of the immediate things such as the texas abortion rule and so on, nothing really matters if we don't have a world humans can live in. i am just appalled we have not done anything or very little over all these years to combat. i am living in a state where the oil barons rule. the governor, terrible governor abbott and members of congress, they are all supported by the oil industry here. oil is big in this state but, i

mean, it is terrible. it is not only what is happening with oil. so many people suffer from the fumes, like cancer alley. these people have no choice where they live. they are poor people. it is not just affect minorities. look at all the poor white people in this country. it is not an issue of race, it is an issue of health and actually, how this nation is going to continue is we can't. we keep -- host: ok, we got your point. because of those texas callers we want to let you know the hill

also picked the saw fox news saying, texas governor greg abbott said he would sign an integrity bill tuesday after battling with democrats over the controversial legislation. he will travel to tyler, texas to sign the bill that will affect the relaxed voter accommodations put in place for the pandemic ahead of the 2020 election. it will establish rule lose -- new rules for mail-in voting and increase the partisan poll watchers. it will also prohibit election officials from sending voters to unsolicited applications for mail-in ballots. any official who does so would face jail time. the hill parroting fox news. you can read more about that action by the texas governor this coming tuesday. syracuse, new york, democrat line. bill, hello. caller: hello. the thing that concerns me is, one, we tend to focus on things

and right now it seems we are focusing on afghanistan while other things are happening. particularly, recently my wife had to go into the hospital and i had the chance to observe the way they do things. my wife is also a former nurse. i noticed when i went into the hospital keeping the same old procedures. they still ask you the same question a hundred times, they still have to get somebody's signature. i am scared of the hospital. many of the nurses -- i was there and most of the nurses are exhausted. they are heroes and they work but if you continue working, you are going to be making mistakes if you're totally exhausted and it makes me more unhappy about

the hospitals and the way they are handling the nurses. host: you are saying a change of procedures are needed than from what you are seeing and experiencing now. caller: yes and they have always been needed but now they are needed much more because of covid. host: ok. bill and syracuse, new york. the line from illinois, dilbert. caller: i heard that lady on the wolves. i wonder if anybody asked about the service dogs we left in afghanistan in crates. i think they should be brought home,too. host: how did you become aware of it? caller: it was on the news. i was watching the other day and it showed the service dogs in crates with empty water bottles

in front of them. host: just to give you a sense if you go to the new york post, this is back on august 31 so you may find something more current. there is a humane group saying the u.s. did leave military dogs as part of the pullout. you can read at the new york post. i am sure there are other places you can read it. when it comes to the matters of september 11 there is a story in the new york times today taking a look at the case of identifying those who died saying it was last month that two detectives showed up at a long island home. her son called her well he was at home. did you hear about grandma? dorothy morgan disappeared into the rubble of a collapsed tower like most of the 2753 victims on the morning of september 11. she was working as an insurance broker in the north tower. with no remains her daughter was

never able to give her a proper burial but now the detectives have arrived that the new york city medical examiner's office positively identified to earthy morgan -- dorothy morgan saying, i did not know they were attempting this after all those years. at this point, what is it you are sifting through? you will probably see many stories of this leading up to september 11. on saturday we will give you the chance to express your thoughts on the anniversary and the events of september 11. we go to anne in new york, republican line. good morning. caller: hi. mis-c spin? host: yes, you are on. caller: i would just like to comment about the overall

economic policies. certain economic groups feel they should get so much compensation for food and for this and for that. but what really irks me, if you could just give me a minute, you know, the politicians -- let me put it this way. when i first got married you could buy a decent house for under $50,000, a one family house. the government got involved with the subprime loans and now that same house you could afford 40 years ago is now 400 thousand dollars, $500,000. if you continue to raise the tax base and continue to make things harder and harder and harder,

the average person will not be able to survive. the prices are going higher and people want more entitlements and then it is a vicious cycle. i think they should have a flat tax, i think they should have prices come down that are reasonable so you can get a middle-class. my husband's first car when he bought his car, believe it or not, a toyota corolla was under $4000. now that same car is over $25,000, $26,000. it is ridiculous because instead of getting people -- and i am not denying people need money to survive because economically i have compassion. why don't the politicians lower the taxes? why don't they make things reasonable so that a middle-class family can sustain? host: you made your point so we

will leave you there. stephen and gladstone, michigan texting saying, the government needs to extend the benefits until they get the virus under control. all of us have to come together to beat covid. until we do that the economy will never recover. tommy in massachusetts and, absolutely benefits should be ended. in my opinion they should have been ended six months ago. the people who refused to go back to work are not american and are selfish and harming the americans that are working. some of you filtering in with comments about the economy, particularly unemployment. charles in new jersey, democrat line. caller: good morning. how are you doing? host: i'm well, thank you. caller: the government knew when they gave the stimulus check the disease was here. they gave us $2000 stimulus checks, $600 at one time and

wait six or seven months to give us $1400 to keep your mind off what was going on. if you want to do something right, don't give nobody outside america money. help the senior citizens. host: robert in massachusetts, democrat line. you are on. caller: good morning. the most important thing in the last week was we had hr1 with al sharpton. i think c-span for playing it for me -- thank c-span for playing it for me. we have people like al sharpton, reverend barbara, we have all these people and whenever we have black men -- these two

brothers always running to the money. give the money to the naacp. i love al sharpton, don't get me wrong, but these people need to listen to james clybourn. he is the only one to me in washington that makes sense to me. the democrats, we need to take care of -- host: finish your thought. caller: hr1, after i watched that on c-span it ended up looking like it was a civil rights movement. host: that was robert in massachusetts. by the way, that rally the viewer had seen on our network still available if you want to watch. particularly as they were talking about voting rights issues. go to the website to find that event. one more call from clip in

tulsa, oklahoma, independent line. caller: i was calling about the unemployment benefits. we were cut off in oklahoma back in, i think it was the 26th of may. we have got a governor that decides everybody needs to go back to work during a pandemic. there is a lot of people that can still use the money. like i said, we have a big lawsuit going in oklahoma and the supreme court saying the governor did not have the right to take the money away. it will be interesting what everybody gets paid back pay or don't get back pay. our covid rates are really high in oklahoma. a lot of people do not need to be on the job sites. in my opinion i think we should have waited and let the benefits

run out and let people go back to work. host: that was cliff in tulsa, oklahoma. thank you to those who participated. for those still interested in discussing afghanistan, particularly in light of events that this was remembrance of 9/11, our next guest wrote a book taking a look at the cia's role in the days after afghanistan and securing the country. toby harnden, author of "first casualty: the untold story of the cia mission to avenge 9/11," will join us next for that discussion. later on the armed conflict location and event data project's roudabah kishi talks about armed protest in the united states and the potential for violence to break out of those events. that conversation coming up on washington journal. ♪ >> the former acting secretary of homeland security talks about

9/11. hosted by the heritage foundation, live at 10:00 eastern on c-span, online at c-span.org, or listen on the free c-span radio app. ♪ >> washington journal continues. host: our first guest of the morning is toby harnden.

thank you for joining us. guest: good morning. host: how is it that the cia played the first role in the days after 9/11? guest: the cia had been going in and out of afghanistan since 1999, liaising with the leader of the northern alliance. surprisingly, the pentagon had no plan for afghanistan. the cia said we have a plan, and we have been going in and out of the country, and we have regional experts, linguists, and

to send in small teams. that was the plan that president bush went for, and that is what happened in late september and october and led to the fall of the taliban regime. host: you write, within the government, america had abandoned afghanistan after the cold war. it sent small teams into the country to assist leaders of the northern alliance. the pentagon had no military plan for afghanistan. you say the first team, something called team alpha, talk about the team and its mission. guest: team alpha was the first team behind enemy lines.

there was a bridgehead there. team alpha was eight men, four paramilitary. david tyson was the only uzbek speaker in the cia. he was based in the cia station, also a medic and greenbrae captain. they were -- greenbrae captain -- green beret captain. they were an eclectic band. they were used to cutting deals,

and it was also put together at the last moment. some of the men had barely met each other. everything was improvised because it was imperative to get in quickly. the aim of the mission was to hunt down al qaeda and prevent another attack on america and deny the safe haven that taliban had been providing al qaeda. it was a fascinating period of history. i feel let people think that the people who went and -- the picture of them, somebody commented that they looked like suburban dad's about to mow the lawn. that is a little bit of an exaggeration. in other ways, it was pretty ordinary people who stepped up

and her -- and who were dropped into the unknown. host: our guest will continue with us for the hour if you want to ask him questions about his book. (202) 748-8000 for the eastern time zone's. war veterans of afghanistan, (202) 748-8002. you can text us at (202) 748-8003. what would you call the key missions that team alpha did that led to the success of what they did in the country? guest: given what has happened in recent weeks, the tragedy, and it is worth going back to the beginning to look at what the mission was and compare it with what the mission became. in this period, people talk about the u.s. invasion of afghanistan, there was not any invasion until 2002.

there were hundreds of americans and they were off to one side. you had team alpha, the cia, and then you have the green beret team that came in three days afterwards. this was replicated in the country. the green berets were focused on the taliban. cia was focused on intelligence. they were looking at al qaeda. the afghans did the fighting. it was an afghan war. the u.s. were not the invaders. the invaders were al qaeda. the u.s. was supporting the indigenous resistance and it was a different kind of paradigm. the u.s. mission expanded and we

have been so successful, let's change another regime in iraq. this is pretty simple. troops were called in and we decided to shoot for the moon to build centralized democracy. we did not allow the afghans to do any kind of deal with the remnants of the taliban. it is sad. you see a great deal of success at the end of 2001, marred by the success of the former marine corps officer who was a member of the team alpha. it changed immediately and you will see the seeds of catastrophe that we have been seeing in recent days starting to be sewn at the end of 2001. host: you made the assertion that the pentagon was not

prepared for the days after. were they ok with the cia taking the lead? guest: donald rumsfeld was not ok. he was very unhappy that a much smaller organization was taking the lead. he did not like the agency taking the issue anymore he believed that was why the pentagon was therefore. that is one of the reasons why rumsfeld pushed so hard for iraq war planning. iraq was being discussed and donald rumsfeld major the pentagon was ready and the pentagon ran the war in iraq and the cia took more of a backseat than it did in afghanistan in the early period. host: toby harnden, the untold

story of the cia mission to avenge 9/11. before we take calls, your reaction to the taliban gaining control. guest: absolutely tragic. eerie echoes of the period before 9/11. the only sliver of territory that was free, that was occupied by the afghan resistance. after the fall of the governments, they were holding out geographically. difficult to conquer. after 9/11, american support, american airpower.

probably a journey that could not be taken out. this time, they were left on their own and the americans had left. really sad. the flame of resistance burned for a week or two, but it looks like for now, it has been extinguished. host: the taliban at the time of the events of the book, how have they changed from what we know now? guest: it remains to be seen, doesn't it? the taliban that ruled afghanistan in 2001, savage brutality. women shot dead in soccer stadiums if they had been killed -- accused of adultery. women having to cover themselves from head to toe, not allowed to work. ethnic massacres in the north.

really, this is why we saw afghans clinging to c-17's, they were so desperate to get out. my phone is pinging all the time . there is real desperation. some of the words seem to be kinder and gentler, but let's see some of the behavior. they may be using iphones now, but i fear that the likelihood is they are using modern techniques to become more savvy and more clever. victory over america, it is

unlikely they will choose to become more like us and embrace liberal, western values. our first call is from ruth from california. caller: good morning. before i ask my question, i would like to simply say that i think the comment that was made earlier that you are the only good moderator, i think you are great. i also think the others are great. i was horrified somebody insulted jesse last week by calling him boy. that is terrible. enough of that. i would like to ask a guest question. in this discussion of the war in

afghanistan and his termination -- and its termination, i have not heard anyone bring up the military involvement in iraq as part of the perhaps declination of -- we took our eye off the ball, so to speak. in afghanistan, in order to spend blood and treasure in iraq -- i wonder what your opinion is about the impact of the iraq war on the afghanistan war. thank you. host: thank you. guest: i think that is a very solid point. certainly, cia officers from team alpha who are still living through the day we went to rue

-- rue the day we went to iraq. iraq was a constant throughout this. on september 15, at camp david, donald rumsfeld raise the issue of iraq. the counterterrorism center director who oversaw the war planning, he described it, my brain was screaming. we had been attacked by al qaeda, which was based inside afghanistan, given safe haven by the taliban, and yet here we have senior pentagon officials talking about going after iraq. he thought president bush shelved this notion for months. but there were discussions throughout the entire period. once we got into 2002, and i

remember it vividly, the talk was iraq, iraq, iraq all the time. somehow afghanistan had been solved and everything would fall into place. the military and cia had were planning for iraq and resources went there and the highflying officers, their attention was toward iraq. that was the war that could make their careers. a real army of history that this was done early success in afghanistan from team alpha and other cia teams, that led to hubris within the country and the bush administration, the regime change was easy so let's do another one. let's deal with another enemy. the rest is literally history. host: this is from david in los

angeles. caller: i would really like to thank this gentleman for his contribution this morning. we all know that the first casualties of war are the troops. what that organization was about was a cia funded operation to deal with the cold effort against the soviet union in afghanistan, which was being funded by the u.s. government and cia and all the operatives. we come all the way over to where we are today. especially nowadays, when americans are hell-bent on believing lies and selective recall in relationships to history. this guy is on point.

as we begin to unravel and we see all of these warlords being dusted off with their so-called conventional international wisdom that got us into this mess in continue to perpetuate -- and they continue to perpetuate a lie with no analysis. host: is there a specific question? david, are you there? caller: casualties of war. host: that is david in los angeles. guest: david is right. the period of the 1980's, the soviets invaded in 1979, was part of the picture here. what happened is you had lots of different factions and tribes.

osama bin laden was involved in funding parts from saudi arabia. the cia was not in the country. it was worked through the pakistani intelligence service, which later became a benefactor of the taliban. the biggest contribution was the missile program. david tyson was flying to london to take part in a meeting about missiles which the u.s. provided, which were feared to have fallen into the hands of terrorists. i do not think it is the case that the cia created al qaeda or bin laden or funded that group, which was relatively minor in terms of defeating the soviets

in afghanistan. the main problem was that the u.s. and the cia left afghanistan after 1989. it was seen as a cold war, proxy war that did not have any broader global relevance. that led to afghanistan -- the taliban students, that movement grew up, some veterans of the afghanistan war. in the ungoverned space, al qaeda group. -- the al qaeda grew. in 1998, you have the uss cole attacked in yemen.

the cia was screaming warnings to the clinton administration and then the bush administration. on 9/11, there was a degree of blowback, it's true. the results of the unintended consequence of what had happened , abandoning afghanistan after 1989. that was something we did at our peril. lots of lessons to be learned from all of this. we abandoned afghanistan at our peril. if we turn our backs now, who knows what is going to happen? host: you write that bill clinton had treated al qaeda as a problem to be dealt with by legal means. the afghans fighting the taliban were begging for more american

help. can you summarize how the obama and trump administrations shaped what went on in afghanistan? guest: lots of blame to go around. after this early. , the bush -- early period, the bush administration took a turn toward nationbuilding. obama was elected because of his opposition to the iraq war. he did not want to be seen as soft on foreign policy. i think some of his stuff, he was played by the generals. the good thing about the military, there is a solution to every problem. the top-level solution is usually, let's send in more

troops. in 2009, there was a surge. we pushed up to more than 100,000 american troops. at the same time, president obama felt that he had general mcchrystal and petraeus had perhaps pushed their case too far. at the same time as announcing the surge, he also announced a withdrawal date. that sends very mixed messages to the enemy and to our afghan allies. by the time we get to 2016, i think it was a bipartisan weariness with war reflected in the country. we got a sense of, let's just get out of here. policymakers have forgotten the reason we weren't there -- we

went there, which was just and politically the right thing to do, militarily, the right thing to do. this stopped other attacks from al qaeda on the homeland. it was supported by the united nations. there was this sense of ennui. from 2016 onwards, the taliban knew that we just wanted to get out. ultimately, we get to 2018 and negotiations with the taliban amounted to surrender. in 2020, the so-called -- it did not involve the afghan government. they were excluded. president biden and then-president trump during the most recent election, there was no policy difference between them.

there was no ambassador in kabul. we just wanted to get out. we learned in iraq that america can say that it ends war, but wars continue without america. sadly, although the afghanistan war is over, the war is not over for the afghans. host: the next call for toby harnden is from texas. caller: how are you doing? we built a base in saudi arabia as bin laden declared jihad against us. they had everybody on the run, at one point.

it was on horseback, believe it or not. they were killed by finley fire -- by friendly fire by this new weapon. as far as afghanistan, the russians are more worried. the pakistanis do not know what is going on either. i would not worry too much about them. host: go ahead. guest: a number of points. absolutely right, they were on horseback. team alpha arrived and they soon realized they were in the mountains and the principal mode of transportation was horses. it was very painful, the saddles

were bits and pieces of two by fours. very few of these guys had any experience on horses. he is right to draw attention to the friendly fire. there was a prisoner uprising on november 25, 2001. cia operative was killed. the following day, there was a 2000 pound dropped on the fort and the intention was to drop the bomb on the pink house. that is where most of them were seeking shelter. the fog of war and some of these

procedures had not been used before. the court in its got mixed -- coordinates got mixed up. it dropped on one of the towers in the northern compounds. it flipped over a soviet era tank and killed a number of afghans, wounded four green berets and the number of british troops, special forces. the first purple of the afghanistan war were from friendly fire and they were awarded at the start of september 2001. despite the success of its early. , you could see -- early period, you could see there were

complications, the difficulty of fighting a war in this country. hunting echoes -- hunting echoes -- haunting echoes when researching all of this. host: toby harnden is our guest. who did team alpha and the cia have to trust within the country? how much trust was there? guest: trust and risk was central to this mission. the warlords they linked up with -- a notorious figure in the 1980's. under his command, they had been enemies and allies.

it was -- then you relatively little about them. the cia had not been in direct contact with him. he had been accused of war crimes. he had a ferocious reputation and they did not know what they would find. what they did find, for all his personal foibles and flaws, he was a person who was willing to fight. his interests coincided with those of america. the cia and the green berets on the ground how to trust him. they slept with their weapons, but they came to lot -- they came to rely on him. it was with this ragtag band of

afghan fighters waging war on horseback. it looked like something from centuries earlier. these two things combined were the hallmark of this period. host: from pennsylvania, this is jackie. caller: good morning. i know this does not relate to your book but i am wondering if you could comment on pakistan's current involvement in afghanistan. i have been watching a lot of india's news and i'm hearing the pakistan army went in with ground troops and air support.

the isi chief went into kabul to help form a new taliban government and the infighting with the taliban and i've heard there is talk of a petitioning of afghanistan. a chinese general and a pakistani general were directing the pakistani involvement. why is the u.s. giving pakistan money? guest: fastening question -- fascinating question and pakistan as part of the book. pakistan has been a part of this conflict for the last 20 years and also before that. if you look at afghanistan, you have pakistan to the west and the south, iran to the east and

in the north, you have uzbekistan and a little sliver in the top right northeast, you have a border with china. this is one of the reasons why afghanistan was a venue for the great game. there was a great power competition. you have the u.s. departure and you have that competition once again. in the early days of 2001, while the fighting was going on, there was quite a lot of evidence that the pakistani isi flew into evacuate pakistani troops that were fighting with the taliban and al qaeda. we know over the past 20 years that pakistan played a double game.

it funded and sustained and supported taliban inside afghanistan. you see strategic depth in their ongoing war with india. a lot of questions to be answered about u.s. support for pakistan during this period. one of the reasons the u.s. ended up losing this war is the taliban was able to use pakistan not as a source -- not just as a source of funding but a base with which to sustain. host: we have a special line for veterans of the afghanistan wars. this is from joe in west virginia. caller: good morning. i was wondering how the alpha team or cia office set the stage

or were influential in allowing the mass influx of u.s. troops a little later on? does anybody your book have anything to do with setting up the government to support u.s. presence in afghanistan? guest: in this period, they were focused on a laser on al qaeda. between the u.s. and al qaeda, the taliban. toppling the taliban regime to get to al qaeda. proponents of this light footprint advisory role were not in favor and did not advocate for a much broader special forces agreement and

conventional troops pouring in. i speak to these guys a lot, the surviving members, and a lot of them grieve for their afghan allies and they are working hard to get those remaining in afghanistan, get them out of the country. from 2002 onwards, when conventional forces came in, they see something that should not have happened. they believe we should have stuck to the light footprint principal which was so successful in the early weeks. host: have you had a chance to communicate with the team about recent events in afghanistan? guest: absolutely. several of them are working every hour they have to spare to work with private groups to get their allies out.

i have a translator working with some of these former agency people trying to get him out. there is a lot of discussion, a strong focus on what is happening now. in the quiet moments, there are discussions about what went wrong over the last 20 years and the early success in the sense of optimism about the country and the sense of a new dawn for afghanistan but also in ally -- an ally and safe zones in terms of american interest, how that all ended the way it did. host: to what degree did they agree with the military operations? guest: generally speaking, and i cannot speak for them and they are individuals and they work as

operatives rather than politicians, all six did become senior intelligence members. it varies. the consensus is there should have been some kind of residual force. president trump, toward the end of his administration, brought them down from 5000. there is a sense that we should have kept a number of american troops inside the country to advise and partner with the afghans just as we did in those early weeks. there is a sense that withdrawal was botched. the idea that it was a full unilateral withdrawal of all troops -- host: from ron in new hampshire.

good morning. caller: everyone knows the idea that terrorism or whatever that that is a pretext. it was an oil war. dick cheney is the one who started it. he is an oil executive. we did not want to -- the goal was to create instability and maintain instability to prevent the development of the oil resources, to prevent the ability -- the building of pipelines so there would be less oil and the price of oil would skyrocket. if you look at any graph of oil, the price of oil through that period, you will see that the war was completely successful from the point of view of those who prosecuted -- completely

successful. do you put this into your calculus of your analysis? the actual reason why we went into war. guest: i disagree. this is not a war about oil. it is not a war started by dick cheney. i was in washington, d.c., on 9/11 in 2001 when we had two aircraft hijacked and flown into the world trade center and an aircraft flown into the pentagon and some brave passengers on flight 93 managed to stop the plane probably heading to the capitol. it crashed into a field in pennsylvania. all 3000 were killed in new york. it was carried out by bin laden. the biggest attack, most deadly attack on the u.s. homeland in

american history and that is the reason why the country was united. one member of congress voted against military force. it was backed by the united nations. it i do not think -- i do not think it was anything to do with oil. host: toby harnden is our guest. about 20 more minutes. he is the author of first casualties. the cia was mentioned in an editorial in the wall street journal this morning bringing up the modern-day events. the u.s. will also be counting on the taliban to help with counterterrorism operations. guest: the cia has no station in

kabul anymore. it is very hard to find out what is happening in a country when you do not have assets, when you don't have the surveillance. lots of talk over the horizon about actions and the u.s. has drones and there are things that have begun -- that can be done now that could not be done 20 years ago. the cia needs intelligence and needs human intelligence and you cannot do that electronically. you have to put people in the i and you have to -- you have to look people in the eye and you have to take risks with them. isis-k is clearly a threat. does that mean that the taliban is a u.s. ally? not necessarily. probably not in most circumstances.

intelligence is about ambiguity and the maybe and overtures and connections with some elements of the taliban that could be used against isis-k. the taliban's ideology has not changed. they remain connected with al qaeda, which remains inside afghanistan and looks like it could well be on the people of a period of resurgence -- on the eve of a period of resurgence. there are not many easy answers right now. very big challenges within the community -- intelligence committee as well. host: let's hear from maria in new jersey. caller: i have a couple of comments and a question, please.

i am sure the settlement is familiar with the agreement after world war i. ever since then, after world war ii, britain and several other commonwealth nations have access -- we have been becoming parts of british imperialism. we have troops in africa that cannot even speak about their missions. if we wanted to get somebody specific in afghanistan, we could have used reprisal. in our own government, we have foreign agents that are globalists and do not care at all about america.

we have to come back to our own borders. i would like his comments. guest: quite a lot in that question. one thing i pick up on his dimension of trust. -- this mentioned of trust. the message used by the taliban -- you have the clocks but we have the time. the enemy has strategic patients. often in the west, we make deals with other countries and we promise that we will be there with them for the foreseeable future. a few years later, it turns out that we have changed our minds

and we have to pull out and we are seen as abandoning those allies and breaching trust. that has consequences for the future and one of the legacies of this last 20 years is whether potential allies we go to help in our own interest will trust us again. host: twitter asking why cia did not direct efforts toward saudi arabia after 9/11? guest: the saudi is funded the islamist elements. osama bin laden was saudi, although his citizenship was taken away from him. a little bit like pakistan. an ally within asterisk -- with an asterisk.

a lot of controversy about the saudi relationship as there is about the relationship with pakistan. the cia is a tool of the u.s. government and is not an independent entity. while there are a number of critics of saudi arabia within the cia, it was not u.s. policy to go after the saudi arabians. host: this is from texas. go ahead. caller: good morning, c-span. i am going to get your book. guest: thank you. caller: the small issue at hand is -- the main issue is regardless of getting out, not getting out, that is a policy

issue people can argue forever. the issue is the strategic withdrawal that totally went wrong. it is almost as if the military planners were not considered by the state department. there are basic things, security of the lines of communications, that just were not done. we practice this in the army, the u.s. military, and it seems like all of this was just dropped. for example, just giving up the airbase as a secure haven for all of these operations. this could have been done without the loss-of-life and -- in a much more efficient manner. what do you say? guest: i agree with pretty much all of that. it was clearly badly mishandled

and you would have thought that after 20 years, we would have a good exit plan. the afghan government folded much more quickly than most people expected. we know that we plan for all scenarios. i would imagine that there will be congressional investigations into this, maybe an independent commission. it was a botched withdrawal. host: from a gal in maryland -- miguel in maryland, you are on. caller: good morning. i hear all the bad stuff about the taliban. my take personally, i am an american patriot.

when i look at what they have accomplished, i see them -- they have something that americans lost. they waited out the military operation. they waited out everything, and they were successful. they have taken back control of their country. the taliban are afghan nationalists. we do not have the ability to fight against our government anymore or to question when they make a move, even moves against us. something else that i noticed that you said about 9/11 -- we didn't go over there for al qaeda -- we did go over there for al qaeda. the taliban were just in the way. there is something not right about the official story.

i do not care if that conspiracy theory are not. host: we will leave it there. guest: just to pick up on the point that maybe the taliban have something we lost. these are dark days. it is depressing for everyone. if we go back to the beginning, you can see what america can achieve. very small numbers of americans, who had expertise militarily in terms of languages and culture. they went into the unknown. one of them was killed. with very small numbers, they partnered with afghans and the mountains and they managed to remove the taliban regime. they did not get bin laden. that took another 10 years, but that was another u.s. achievement. the u.s. is an incredible

country with incredible people who serve in the military and in the intelligence agencies. those characters, in all of the variety, flaws and foibles, that is what i wanted to portray. this is a very dark period and i think they are not supported by the majority of the people. they were brutal and the previous period from 1996-2001. the story is not over. there will be better days ahead. there are people like members of the team alpha who are americans who serve the country in the

shadows without trying to get any publicity or kudos. host: how difficult was it to get the participation of the very members of the team? did you have to go to the cia to compile this book? guest: it took many years and i did not have any sort of relationship with the cia, just coming in from the outside. you can tell from the accent that i was born in bridget -- in britain. i have been a u.s. citizen since 2009. i was fascinated by the story of david tyson. he killed dozens of al qaeda in the process of getting out. i tracked him down. i met him about eight years ago. he lived in vienna, virginia, very close to where i live.

i met him at a panera bread. he could not say very much because he was still serving. he contacted me when he retired. i went to other members of the team. i said listen, i am an author and journalist and i studied modern history as an undergraduate and i want to piece together what happened. you build up trust and credibility and you get people to vouch for you and you keep moving on. at a certain point, there was a shift in the center of gravity and people were opening up and there was a consensus view that i was serious and was not coming in with an agenda. i was afraid the cia might try to hinder me so i held back on contacting them.

once i had enough for the book, i went to the cia and said, this is what i am doing. and they said, we know. they did facilitate some interviews with serving members of the cia. one member of team alpha is a member of the cia now. i did get some help from the cia, which i'm grateful for. they did not give me all of their classified cables and they rejected my foia applications. but i was able to talk to serving cia officers. host: let's go to bill in albany, new york. caller: i have a question, and i hate to talk in generalities because i do not have any questions with details. it is my own personal recollection that after 9/11 that all americans came together

and you saw cars riding around with the american flags and i remember specifically when president bush went into afghanistan with the airstrikes, and they were very successful, and the airstrikes were successful and it looked like we were getting someplace to get bin laden and to get at who did this to us. i questioned at the same time, all of a sudden, we went to iraq and had the war in iraq and we went away from the afghanistan movement and i felt at that time -- i am talking about then -- i felt that, why are we doing this because we are being so successful and i think from then on in, we were fighting in iraq and we lost the grip we had to immediately get who did this to our country on 9/11. i was wondering what your guest thinks about that. host: ok.

guest: that is absolutely right. i was in the u.s. on 9/11 and i do remember the sense of unity and the sense that afghanistan was a righteous war. the aims were limited. we had been supported internationally like we never had been before. the u.n. and nato were behind us. we did lose that. you can call it american hubris or arrogance, but we quickly moved onto to the war in iraq. that is partly the benefit of hindsight. there are not any links between al qaeda and iraq. that is not how it was seen at the time.

it was popular support for the war in iraq and we all know what happened. unfortunately, there was some slowly unfolding disaster in afghanistan that happened. host: one more call. this is from idaho. as you finish up, we talked a lot about aspects of the book. what is the one thing that stands out that you want to share with the viewers? caller: -- guest: what i would like to share is the quality of these individuals that went into afghanistan. they were not elite teams of operators like the seal team that took out bin laden. they were -- they did not know what they were going to face day today and they took on the incredible risks and it is

useful to go back to the beginning and look at the principles that gave us early success and the quality of these individuals. we should think about that. david tyson saw mike killed and had to kill a number of people. he has nightmares six nights out of seven to this day, although he has managed to live a productive and happy life. i would like to and really on the quality of the individuals who fought for america alongside brave afghans in those early days after 9/11. host: the author is toby harnden , our guest.

thank you for your time. coming up, we will hear from an organization --roudabah kishi serves as the director of research and they will talk about a about a report on armed protests in the united states and the potential for violence to break out at those events. that conversation coming up on "washington journal." ♪ >> weekends on c-span two are an intellectual feast. every saturday, events and people that explore our nation's past on american history tv. sundays, but tv brings you the latest in nonfiction books and authors. it is television for serious readers. discover, explore weekends on c-span2. >> the leaders of canada's

political parties including prime minister justin trudeau to take part in a two-hour debate in quebec ahead of the september 20 federal election. live, thursday, at 9:00 eastern on c-span. you can also watch online at c-span.org or listen on the free c-span radio app. >> washington journal continues. host: joining us now is roudabah kishi of armed conflict location & event data project. she serves as the research and innovation director. thanks for joining us this morning. guest: thank you for having me. host: talk about your organization, what role does it serve, and who financially backs you? guest: we are a nonpartisan, nonprofit research organization. we track political violence and protests around the world in real time, make the data publicly available. we have a number of funders in the u.s., but our work is not

funded by those government donors. our donor worksite is listed on the website. host: when it comes to the organization and the reason you do your work, why do you think this information is vital? guest: we think demonstrations in general, political violence more largely, we track this information around the globe, can be really important to track and mitigate risks and threats, early warning systems, identify where hotspots might be. the u.s. is no different in that sense. host: who consumes your information, who isn't meant for? guest: we have a vast variety of users, everyone from government entities to academics, journalists, humanitarian organizations, advocacy groups. this kind of information can be useful to so many. given the granularity and public availability of it, it is used

by quite a lot of people. host: you put out a report in conjunction with the group every town for gun safety. what led to the creation of the report? guest: we have been tracking information on protests in the u.s. every town is quite interested in gun safety work, so it led to a natural parent to say, we are tracking demonstrations. we can track armed demonstrations and compare them to other protests, and that is what we do the report. host: the report says roughly one out of six demonstrations in the united dates where firearms are present, including violence and instructive activity to demonstrations where no firearms were. can you expand on that? guest: these are demonstrations

where an individual other than law enforcement is armed. we find these comprise of a very small proportion of protests in the u.s. less than 2%. yet, they are disproportionately violent or destructive. they comprise nearly 10% of all destructive demonstrations across the country. the biggest take away of the report is it really runs contrary to the claims that the presence of guns in public spaces makes people safer. in fact, we find demonstrations involving an armed individual tend to be violent and destructive nearly six times as often as on armed demonstrations. host: in your report you say violent or disruptive activity. what does that mean? guest: this can include forms of physical violence, whether they span from shootings -- of course talking about firearms, but any physical violence that we see, other less lethal weapons,

pepper spray. it could be crude weaponry like clubs or frozen water bottles which can cause damage payment those are more on the violent side. destructive activity includes looting, vandalism. all of these things that we may associate more largely with riots. host: those things that you studied, did any debts come out of these violent activities -- deaths come out of these violent activities? guest: quite a lot of them made waves. the report itself came out on the anniversary of the shooting in kenosha, one of the more popular, common space, with the kyle rittenhouse shooting, a number of protesters. while we have cases like that that are quite lethal, we have cases that don't end up as legal violence but still violent nonetheless. host: when it comes to the data

that you used to compile the information, where does that come from? guest: for the u.s. coverage, researchers monitor thousands of sources to identify when and where protests occur, who was involved, whether the protests were destructive, whether law enforcement engaged or not. this information come from a variety of traditional media sources. we try to prioritize local newspapers and such, but we also draw information from trusted social media accounts. we don't crowd source but we do track twitter accounts of journalists, for example. we have a number of partnerships in organizations that may track certain violence, like militia violence. not only where militia may have been involved in protest but where they might be holding recruitment events, training exercises, etc. all this information is spelled out in the variety of methodology notes, which you can find on the website. host: our guest is with the

armed conflict location & event data project. roudabah kishi is here to talk about the results of that report, if you want to ask her questions about it. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. you can also text us at (202) 748-8003. one of the data lines that came out of the report says armed the demonstration turned violent or district if 16% of the time compared to less than 3% of the time for unarmed demonstrat ions. the use of weapons other than firearms or destructive activity. can you expand on that? guest: what we are trying to touch on there is while we see certain cases in which the violent or destructive behavior in a demonstration is carried out by the person or persons who are armed, resulting in firearms

directly contributing to more dangerous demonstrations, this is not always the case. in some events we have an event that may turn violent due to the actions of people other than those who are armed. nevertheless, the trend of armed demonstrations are more likely to be violent or destructive shows how the presence of firearms at a demonstration in of itself escalates tensions and can indirectly contribute to a more dangerous environment. we can talk about how firearms can have a chilling effect on speech, how they can play a role in intimidation. they can do a lot of things beyond specifically shooting and hurting people in that way. host: when it comes to those involved in these activities, mainly individuals, groups involved, how would you break that down? guest: named groups are involved in over half of these demonstrations.

named alyssa groups or social militant movements. we find these groups are this portion of the right wing. a lot of the bigger names that your viewers may be familiar with, the bogalusa boys, the 3%ers, the proud boys, those are some of the more active groups. then we see a number of cases in which unaffiliated individuals may be involved. of course, there are cases in which we see both. we see groups and also unaffiliated individuals. again, kenosha would be an example of that. we had a number of armed militia groups. kyle rittenhouse was responding to one of their calls to arms. he himself was unaffiliated. so we are able to track both of those cases. host: how many incidents did you study, as far as the data that this report encompasses? guest: we look at demonstrations from the beginning of last year,

january 2020 through june 2021. we find 560 armed demonstrations. this comes after reviewing 30,000 protests during that time, showing you how active the protest environment the u.s. has, and what a small proportion these are the demonstrations comprise. but what we found is, given these armed demonstrations are disproportionately making up a larger proportion of these violent or destructive demonstrations, it tells us something specific about these demonstrations, which is why we are keen to learn more about the types of factors, such as the presence of firearms contributing to making demonstrations more destructive or violent. host: acled.com. roudabah kishi is our guest. marvin is our first guest. colonial beach, virginia.

republican line. go ahead. caller: do you own a gun? guest: personally? i do not. i'm not sure if that is relevant to the report. caller: sure, it is. second, your name is very -- host: stick to the details of the report, please. do you have a question about that? caller: are you -- host: let's go to ned in idaho. independent line. ned in idaho, good morning. ned hung up. when you study this data, 560-plus incidents based on media reports, how do you come to these conclusions, who works in the process of coming up with

the end result? guest: we have a number of researchers. nearly 200 researchers for our global team. a number of those on our u.s. desk specifically. they go through these thousands of sources i mentioned. we published new data weekly. they will review the information, they code it within a certain methodological format which is spelled out in a number of documents on the website. it appears there are specific variables we are interested in capturing. did law enforcement show up? who may have been involved? and then information like the day of the incident, where it happened. having that information collated , going through reviews each week, then published.

we are able to use that with our more analytical hats on to use the data to look at trends, graphs, etc., which is how we can use the information in the report. it also means the data is available for others to download. host: charleston, west virginia. public in line. caller: yes. the lady was speaking about kyle rittenhouse, shooting people. how can she -- or her -- the people she is working for, i'm sorry, i cannot get it out. how come they track him but they

cannot see that january 6 and was going to happen at the capitol? guest: well, on one hand, i don't think anybody had the crystal ball to see something like that would happen. the same thing with the kyle rittenhouse shooting. we don't allege that we foresaw that happening. that said, this type of information, tracking data in a granular way, can be useful in identifying warning signs that we can use. in the lead up to january 6, for example, we had flags that we were seeing right wing groups, militias, militant social movements involved in protest increasingly so. it was becoming more and more common as we got closer and closer to january 6. in that sense, we did put out a report flagging, what spaces and

groups we were most worried about, in the election period, in the lead up and then after that, and the january 6 riot can be seen as the stop the steal gathering. this is exactly how it will manifest, it will manifest as a riot on the capital -- nobody could see it in that granularity, but these types of information, this type of tracking can show us where we should be concerned, where we are seeing changes in those types of activities. host: do you sense the same trends happening now? guest: since february, in the immediate aftermath of january 6, we saw a decline in activity by a number of right-wing groups, especially as these groups were laying low with the increase in arrests being made against those who have connections to the january 6 incident.

after that, starting in february, we started seeing more involvement by such groups. we have been seeing that increasingly so. in the lead up to january 6, we saw armed demonstrations becoming more common, which culminated in the arm the demonstration on the capitol. since then, we are seeing armed demonstrations become more common. in february, relative to june, we see armed demonstrations are twice as common as they were in february. we saw that same trend continued into july. i am not saying that this means we will see january 6 again. i think it would be quite unlikely for it to manifest in that same way. but i think we are seeing mobilization, and that is important to track. host: paul from friendship, wisconsin. independent line. caller: this is paul.

i have a question. i have heard and read somewhere about wisconsin, northern minnesota, michigan having bogalusa boys. do you know anything about them? guest: the boogaloo boys and their groups are not so cohesive. it is more of a national movement with various levels of affiliation. they are quite active users of firearms and they are the group that we see most commonly showing up at protest with arms. whether or not they engage in violence, sometimes they just stand by with firearms to keep the peace, per se, but we do see them as quite active. for those interested, we have a number of analysis pieces like

methodology documents but also active profiles, such as on the boogaloo boys, that give a deeper dive into who these groups are, what types of activities they engage in. i really suggest that you seek those out if you are interested in them. host: since you did this project in conjunction with every town, what did they contribute to the project? guest: everyone is familiar with the, gun legislation. as i mentioned at the beginning, acled is nonpartisan, a research organization that does work globally in the u.s., but one of over 190 territories that we track. we can bring in more expertise around gun legislation, what spaces we may see these types of protests being common. that was their contribution, while the value added acled work

that we do, we have these rigorous methodologies to track this type of information. that was really our contribution. host: from washington state, republican line, reid. caller: i have a couple questions for your guest. you touched on the 3%ers. i wonder if your guest is aware of the history of them? boogaloo boys formed recently in response to antifa, the violence of antifa which was not answered by law enforcement. that is how the boogaloo boys forms, from what i understand. 3%ers goes back to the founding of the nation. the continental army had patches with 13 stars on it symbolizing the 13 colonies. the three % only symbolized 3% of the citizenry in the soon-to-be united states was willing to fight the king.

the continental army proudly wore that patch. i wonder if your guest has any understanding of the history. i also question why your guest is not talking one syllable about antifa, which causes 95% more violence than anybody else on the right? the riot, you saw police on the screen, their communication saying it evolved into a riot, not an insurrection. i watched everything pretty closely and i don't remember, maybe one or two incidents where somebody was armed. i am a second amendment supporter but i don't support anyone bringing arms to any event. it is unnecessary. host: ok. you put out a lot of information there. we will let our guests respond to it. guest: if you read the report, our organization, we are

familiar with these different groups. the 3%ers. this a historical notion that only 3% of colonist took up arms against the british. we do touch on that in the report. we also outline the background of boogaloo boys in addition to other groups that are highly active in armed protests, like the oath keepers, proud -- proud boys. we have a number of active protons where we go deeply into these, so i hope you can look at those. in terms of their only being two armed demonstrations, we find that is very much not the case. the data is publicly available. you are welcome to download it. eugen event is cited with a source of where the event comes from, so you can track that and verify for yourself. the points around antifa or this narrative that armed

demonstrations are less common than they are, i think it is actually quite poignant. we saw, especially at the height of the black lives matter movement last summer, then there that was playing out in media showed specific types of demonstrations much more largely than others. we were seeing the images of violent riots, for example, associated with the blm movement. yet, in a separate report -- and we at acled follow these protests across the u.s. -- so we can specifically track blm protest and where they have become violent or destructive. by no means are we saying 0% of them became violent or destructive, but it's important to note, it was 4% of them. 96% of them were peaceful, yet those are not the ones that get played on media, or getting a lot of traction.

in that way, they are shaping the narrative the how we understand these movements, which is another reason why this granular data is important. it is more objective, as opposed to only showing you specific images or protests involving only specific groups. host: roudabah kishi is with armed conflict location & event data project. pete in washington, pennsylvania. independent line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i want to ask the young lady -- sorry, i cannot pronounce your name. is she trying to document their recent demonstrations of women in afghanistan? i agree, weapons produce violence. as i heard the reports, the weapons are in the hands of the taliban, and they are violently

attacking the women. i heard about a policewoman who was killed and mutilated. has she ever heard of tiananmen square? the man standing in front of a tank. host: because this deals with domestic events, do you have a question related to that, which is the subject of the report? caller: a gentleman before -- there is all kinds of violence in the world and in our country. i agree with that. it has increased. i believe in an ancient book that says god saw the wickedness of the man and the greatness in the earth. host: ok, that is pete. you can respond if you wish. guest: the scope of this report focuses on photos around the u.s.

of course, we are monitoring afghanistan right now, tracking the demonstrations with women and how they are met with, whether it is law enforcement or the taliban, we track those, as well as in other countries. i might direct you to the acled website where you can access information on any of these countries you might be interested in. host: the report says approximately 97% of all armed demonstrations in the u.s. during the period of january 2020 to june 2021 took on public spaces. however, nearly all demonstrations have occurred on public spaces may have relevant policy makers have the ability to regulate firearms or near public locations such as parks, schools, or government facilities. can you expand on that? why is that important in the context of your report? guest: it is some of the ways that our users may be able to take that information.

those who might be interested in advocacy work, doing work around legislation. demonstrations in public spaces would be the ones that would be most readily available for them to discuss. private spaces fall into a different category. in addition to tracking the demonstrations in public spaces, we also track when demonstrations happen at a government facility, like on the grounds of state capitals, vote counting locations. we find over 100 of these demonstrations, at least 18% of armed demonstrations happened in those types of spaces. all of these, with the exception of the storming of the u.s. capitol, took place open carry states. it's important to understand where these demonstrations are happening. they are five times more common in open carry states. protesters avail themselves of the laws that allow them to carry firearms.

this information has been included in the report, which can be useful to those interested in policy. host: democrat line, fort lauderdale, florida. mark. caller: good morning. thank you for the interesting discussions. young lady, i don't know if you were listening to the segment before you -- a lot i could say about the calls that i got in the segment. one of these guys called up. he was very enthusiastic about the taliban taking over afghanistan, and that was something that may be our country should be thinking about and looking into. the guest at that moment didn't really slap him around, switched back into his own subject. is that something your organization should be looking into? we have a lot of these people now in a certain segment of the political spectrum that are pointing toward the taliban as a wonderful thing.

it means there can be a rebellion in the country if you don't like what is going on. they are leaning towards that in the future. maybe that is something you can put on your radar and be looking at. host: how do you draw the lines between those two things? caller: i didn't say you need to draw a line, but when you have a group of people holding up what happened in afghanistan as something that they will look forward to happening in this country, and we have always had some of that going on in certain areas -- armed conflict. one in particular that is raising a ruckus, and i know you know what i'm referring to. you are right, at what point does this become concerning? if these guys are talking about it, propagandizing for it, why shouldn't it be something to look for in the future? host: that is mark in fort

lauderdale, florida. ms. kishi. guest: that is a little bit outside of the scope that we do that acled. there are organizations that do work around monitoring militias, de-platofrming to minimize the mobilization of such notions, falls outside of what we do at acled. host: one more call. ray in syracuse, new york. republican line. caller: good morning. with all due respect to the guest, this presentation of hers, her organization is not science. she uses a veneer and some language about science but this is actually propaganda. it is all picked to put across a particular view. it is all one sided.

i would say she is consistently one-sided. but this has nothing to do with science. the guest should not be trusted for actual information. host: would you like to ask a specific question? caller: i would ask her nothing because she is a propagandist. host: that is ray in new york. guest: all i can say to that is the information is readily available. we are quite transparent about our methodology. there are many documents that you can read available to you publicly. we cite each event, sources on the information. you are welcome to look at that and see how you feel about it. it is not that i'm trying to be one-sided. acled is a nonpartisan research organization. the reality is, the groups that are present at these armed

demonstrations are disproportionately right-wing. 84% of the time. that doesn't mean 100% but it is the vast majority. host: acleddata.com. roudabah kishi is the research and innovation director for armed conflict location & event data project. thank you for giving us your time today to talk about this. we will finish out the program with open forums until 10:00. here is how you can reach out to us on issues of interest to you in politics. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 748-8001, republicans. independents, (202) 748-8002. we will take those calls when washington journal continues. ♪

>> this year marks the 20th anniversary of the september 11 attacks. join us for live coverage from new york, the pentagon, and shanksville, pennsylvania, starting at 7:00 eastern, saturday, on c-span. watch online at c-span.org or listen on the c-span radio app. >> c-span's shop online. there is a collection of products. your purchase will support our nonprofit operations. and you still have time to order the congressional directory. host: 428 minutes or so until the house comes in for his pro forma session at 10:00, we will engage in open forum.

the chance for you talk about issues of politics that could reference segments you have seen this morning or other issues you are interested in. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. public inns, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. you can also text us your thoughts this morning at (202) 748-8003. when it comes to the fall and what the biden administration hopes for its agenda, the wall street journal points out it will be domestic issues. mr. biden has placed the spotlight on domestic issues including friday's underwhelming jobs report and recovery from hurricane ida visiting new orleans friday, making plans to travel to the new york metropolitan area on tuesday to assess storm damage. he is expected to focus heavily on his infrastructure and antipoverty legislation in the coming weeks as congress returns to washington, as well as travel

to california to campaign for gavin newsom, a democrat facing a recall election. that is what to expect once congress gets back in as far as an agenda is concerned from the biden administration. the president himself traveling to queens, new york to survey areas damaged by hurricane ida. you can see those response remarks at 4:40 this afternoon. you can monitor them on c-span, follow along on c-span.org. if you wish, you can also go to our c-span radio app which is free and listen along to the comments of the president. open forms until 10:00. pennsylvania, republican line. david, go ahead. caller: good morning. commenting on your previous guest, i was curious -- she is gone now -- but of the 500-plus investigations, how many were

antifa and black lives matter? those resulted in millions of dollars of damage to private property. the arson and the turmoil with that caused the death of 26 plus police officers and a few firefighters dealing with the riots over the past year. there was no mention of that. she seemed to be subjected in her investigation into right-wing, but you did not bring up any of the left-wing. black lives matter and antifa were armed with firearms ,mace. they had weapons, poles, spikes on the end of poles. host: you would have to read the report or watch the segment again to see what she said. she did reference that. tom in leesburg, virginia. independent line. caller: i want to give a different perspective. you have people from all over the country calling in. i live one hour outside of d.c., i work for the federal

government. i will not tell you which agency. i have had to go in probably two or four times a year to capitol hill and brief mainly staff, a lot more of that than congressional hearings. background information, that type of stuff. i find it amazing, september 11 is coming up, and people have short memories. these people that went and attacked the capitol, which i consider my workplace, now there is another proposal -- it is like relatives that showed up. host: go ahead, you blanked out a minute. caller: i find it amazing the people want to be invited back to the capitol and they are the ones that broke the furniture that they are still trying to cleanup from january. if you want to do a protest, don't come to the nations capital and start trashing the building where we work.

what if we showed up at your work and started smashing things up? whoever is in charge of this should say, no, you are not coming back. sorry, you have or not you're welcome. you have broken the furniture. host: tom in leesburg, virginia. herby in my sport, mississippi. caller: i have a couple of issues. i am quite confused. our senators and congressmen and president are supposed be looking out for the people. those people down there are suffering from the heat because they don't have power. we have the ability to put solar panels on every house built from here on and go backwards and put solar panels on so this doesn't happen anymore. we have a problem with our senators and congressmen, lobbying our people to do things that is not in the best interest of people. you need a power meter on your have to have solar panels?

you shouldn't have to go through these regulations to hold you back as a human when god has given you the power from the sky. host: don't you think solar panels and other things would be damaging them similar situation? or are you talking about storing the power up until you need it? caller: when he was there talking the other day, biden, you could see the house that he was standing in front of had solar panels. evidently they didn't get damaged. it was strange that he happened to be in that area. i looked at him and i saw the solar panels on the house. he is talking about them suffering and the solution is right behind him on top of the house. not only that, biden was a part of putting black kids in jail for marijuana and everything. over there in afghanistan, they let all those people out of prison. it is time to let our kids out of prison over these mall charges like marijuana.

drop these charges that the government has been a part of, putting these kids in jail. host: let's hear from our republican line. patricia in minneapolis. caller: that last guest of yours was completely biased. in minneapolis-st. paul, there were 600 businesses that were destroyed and damaged. it was completely violent. they had bricks, they started fires. how could you have someone on -- and she didn't talk about antifa and blm. that is called violence. host: patricia on our republican line. the front page of the washington times highlights the work of two legislators when it comes to the issues of rural america. democrats from rural districts have become a rare breed in congress but representative cindy axne he and cheri bustos think they can reverse the

trend. lawmakers, whose districts uncharacteristically include livestock, and system rule issues are democratic issues. they are spearheading the rural reinvestment task force. the coalition will make inroads in flyover country, read is dominated by pickup trucks, make america great again flags. they held a listening tour last week. the two lawmakers heard from voters about issues including broadband access. if you want to hear about their targeting of verbal america as far as policy issues are concerned, the washington times is where you can find that story. frank in oregon. you are next. caller: i have been listening for hours. i got aggravated when the congressperson from miami talked about antifa, constructing a

false equivalence between antifa and the right wing groups that invaded the capitol on january 6. since then, there are a bunch of callers that sound like they are coordinated from right-wing groups like the 3%ers, the boys. it is aggravating that they are putting so much energy into controlling the message. there is no equivalence between antifa, which i've objected to for the last 10 years, and the violent right-wing groups spreading across the country. your last caller from minneapolis talking about violence there. it was started by a provocateur, umbrella man. it is all in the record. just making stuff up doesn't make it true. building seven was not demolished by saboteurs. it is just nonsense. it is just like ivermectin and hydrochloric when treating

covid-19. it is just rubbish. host: cornelius, avenues andrea, louisiana. republican line. caller: it has been a while. i want to thank c-span for all the coverage they will have for 9/11 and stuff. i am an african-american, was a military police officer. i believe everybody ought to be armed at all times. i believe in constitutional carry and stuff. any town is bloomberg's operation. democrats do not want us aren't. the criminals will always have the guns. you can see that in chicago and stuff. antifa and stuff, black lives matter, they have their violent parts, the right wing has their violent parts. there is violence on both sides. everybody needs to be armed at all times. no places should be barred from being armed.

host: cornelius in louisiana. when it comes to school openings, some schools reporting issues, covid related issues. since the school year kicked off in late july, at least 1000 schools across 31 states have closed because of covid-19. 1200 district nationwide including the two largest. the shutdowns are especially hard in the deep south, the schools among the first to reopen. a possible warning for the rest of the nation's schools as they open up school. new jersey. connie, democrat line. caller: good morning. my comment is about them talking about antifa org black lives matter. that has nothing to do with what happened in washington.

in washington, they attacked the police, too. they forgot the one to defended the police, they were the first ones who attacked the police. i have been in this country since 1957 escaping franco in spain. i am use to things. all of these people that they call so oppressed, all of this and that, they never look at what they do themselves. they didn't see what happened in washington? they are blind? that is my comment. the lady you had before, she was right, 100%. host: sam is next. oregon, democrat line. caller: i have been trying to call in four months as you let everyone in claiming that aunt eva and black lives matter

burned everything down this summer. i had two children hooper present at the protest during the day. just like when i was a child back in the 1960's and the anti-vietnam war protesters were all peaceful, but then late at night, the nazis show up and start destroying the property to discredit the marches during the day which are peaceful. it is time you stop letting people claim those things. thank you. take care. be safe. host: connecticut is next. mallory. independent line. caller: thank you for taking my call for open forum. what is on my mind is the financial situation regarding regulations. the attorney general of new mexico has filed a federal suit against the five largest international and u.s. banks for

rigging the credit default swap market since 2005. they filed a suit to protect their funds. also, we have trillions of dollars of derivatives. the dodd frank act was going to push out the derivatives into the risky, risk-taking side of banks, but that regulation was overturned and they are sitting on the fdic side of banks, $126 trillion. i would love for you to bring william k black on, the regulator in the s&l crisis. host: for all the issues that people talk about, why is that at the top of your list? caller: it is all happening and we are all at risk. nobody is reporting on that. host: what convinces you of that? that it will happen again and

blow up again? caller: when you have unregulated derivatives markets, that is what blew up in 2008, and nothing has changed. credit default swaps blew up in 2007, 2008. nothing has changed. host: the u.s. attorney general talking yesterday in response to the legislation that was passed in texas supported by the supreme court, saying the department of justice is urging ways to challenge that strict new abortion law. did not specify which options are being considered. the supreme court denied access abortion providers an emergency injunction against the new law banning abortions. supreme court stated it was not ruling on the constitutionality of the law. the statement from merrick garland says federal officials will rely on the decades-old freedom of access to clinic entrances act to protect those seeking to obtain or provide

reproductive health services. that federal law bans threat of force or physical destruction against those seeking health services. that is from the texas tribune this morning. pennsylvania, republican line. you are next. caller: good morning. your previous guest was on from an organization, armed conflict protest, and she had mentioned these organizations on the right, you know, that show up at protests. i was wondering what sort of makeup these organizations are military background.

joe biden served as vice president under barack obama's administration. barack obama made a comment about homegrown terrorism most likely being started with the organizations, veterans. he targeted veterans and said most likely you will see this domestic terrorism is started by veterans. i just wanted to -- i tried to get in when she was on the air to see what the demographics of the so-called boogaloo boys and the proud boys and the 3%ers, how many of them were veterans. host: invite you to listen to the segment again. you can find it online. also available to you if you want to pull up the report and

see the makeup of what she was talking about. it is available for you but you can find all the details there and find out about the organizations there as well. concord, california. this is gordon. caller: i'm actually from wisconsin, but good morning. the problem i have is with the format of your shows when you have guests on. i use the heritage foundation as an example. you get these people on from there heritage organizations -- there are many of them. it doesn't make a difference if it is heritage or anything, but the question is never asked who funds you exactly? when the question is asked -- we get a bunch of donations from here and there. what we need to know, and people would be interested, who actually pays these people, who are they hocking their goods for on c-span? it seems to me they are taking

over, the koch brothers on your channel. host: would you change the way that we deal with progressive groups? caller: every group. host: to be fair, one of the questions we ask is who supports you, who funds you? they provide that information, not on a granular level that you are searching for, but go ahead. caller: people need to know who these people are talking for, who pays them. if you get a politician on, i don't care what brand he is, ask him who his top five donors are. host: do you think that information is also publicly available for people to find on their own? caller: it probably is, but there are people who will not take the time to do it. you get this one-sided view.

you have heritage foundation groups on so often, i think people think they are a government organization. host: we have heritage groups on, progressive groups on, they have various means of funding. you can look at the website and see all the groups that we have on on a lot of different topics, progressive and conservative. angela in hawaii. democrat line. caller: hi, sir. aloha. we are having a bit of confusion here with the vaccines. we are told to take pfizer or modernity -- moderna. host: had you taken the vaccine personally? caller: the pfizer and the reaction to moderna. host: what is the confusion exactly?

angela? i don't know if the connection is bad. one more time, are you there? what is the confusion exactly? caller: there are so many types. we are afraid of their reactions, while we have to take so many. host: you are talking about the initial vaccine, two-shot vaccine or the one-shot for johnson & johnson? caller: yes. how come so many vaccines, some are one, there are different reactions and people are afraid of that. host: is that your experience for people close to you, have you spoken to medical officials about it? caller: yes. they have medical excuses to not

take the vaccine or even religious reasons not to take it, and that is good. i feel like this is my body and i should be careful of what i am taking into it, especially if the vaccines are not that tested that long. host: that is angela in hawaii. carolyn in ohio. democrat line. caller: the thing that i think is most important right now is that congress, or even president biden, does something about the voting rights. once we lose that, we lose democracy. i know everything else is so important, but in my mind -- and it is my humble opinion -- that is the most important thing that needs to be dealt with asap. that is just my opinion. host: let me ask you this.

there are various pieces of legislation in congress attempting to be passed. what do you think would change if those were passed and signed into law by the president? caller: well, i just think that we will be able to have fair elections, everybody having the right to vote. that is so important. it seems like not everybody has that right. i just hope and pray, and honestly, i called speaker pelosi myself. i tried to go to the top. i just said exactly what i am saying to you, that if we do not have voting rights, we don't have democracy, and nothing else -- even though it is very important -- nothing else matters. host: what kind of response did you get from calling speaker pelosi's office? caller: nobody called back.

honestly, the recording said something like she listens to her california constituents. i left a recording saying i am not from california, but i think this is so important that i needed to get to the speaker of the house. then i said exactly what i said to you. i have contacted other people. we will see what happens. host: what about your ohio delegation, those that represent you on the house side and senators? caller: i have contacted then. m. to other people, i'm sure that is not as important as everything else going on right now. i realize, there is way too much going on right now. but that is my humble opinion, that we need to first work on voting rights. host: carolyn in vincent, ohio.

sharing her views on voting rights. tess in florida. independent line. caller: hello? good morning. thanks for having me. i am very confused. me and my husband can barely talk about politics. my main concern right now is our president and our vice president, and why is our president, at the 20-year anniversary, right before it going to do what he has done in afghanistan? i am so angry at what he has done and what is happening. the vice president, kamala harris, where is she? i think they are keeping her out for a reason because i don't

think she agrees with the president. she may have in the beginning. i heard one of the news channels, that she had made a comment, i was the last one in the room. i don't know what to think about that. host: the house is on break, but every so often they come in for what is called a pro forma session to do some informal business. we are set to go to them at 10:00, and we will go to them when they do come in. albert in new jersey. republican line. go ahead. caller: i just wanted to say a couple of things. i was curious, when trump was president, texas had that big storm, the hurricane devastation, and then biden didn't really care about the people of texas that much. it was a disaster. louisiana, he took that serious

and was down there right away. we are american states. i don't understand his point of view. when the people did the storming of the capitol, but they had no weapons that i saw on tv. one woman was shot, the air force woman. nobody was accountable for shooting that woman. that poor air force service woman was shot dead. she had no weapon in her hand that i seen. antifa and black lives matter destroyed most of the country, the cities. no consequences for them, no big deal. i don't understand, where is the justice? people are charged and put into jail for the capitol incident but others go free. maybe you can tell me. host: that is albert in new jersey. the house of representatives this just about to come in for that pro forma session.

we will try to squeeze in one more call. diane from st. paul, minnesota democrats line. caller: i just want to go back to this open forum and talk about why people are not going back to work. one reason they are not going back to work. i am serving two years old, i have worked all my life, two jobs. people don't have any health you have to have three or four jobs to make it and that's what i'm doing now all stuff 72 years old but i have my retirement check in my social security so that helps me that does not help the folks. these people are not going to lose their benefits from the county because they have health insurance through the county if they are not working. they are not getting unemployment. i'm talking about people getting $200 from the county to live every day.