c-spanshop.org is c-span's online store. there was a collection of products. rouse to see what is new. your purchase will support nonprofit organizations and you have time to order the contact information directory. go to c-spanshop.org. up next, canadian party leaders, including justin trudeau, take part of a debate ahead of their election. justin trudeau has served as prime minister since 2015. the two hour debate takes place at the canadian museum of history in quebec. >> live from corvette, this is the 2021 federal leaders debate. we are coming to you from the grand hall in the canadian using

love history on the traditional unseeded territory of the algonquin people. a place for canadians to reflect on the country's past, but tonight, we're looking ahead to the future. i'm the president of the institute and tonight, i will be your moderator. let's welcome the party leaders. justin trudeau for the liberal party. erin o'toole for the conservative party. welcome, leaders. tonight's event is being produced for the leaders debates commission by a media partnership. the debate is also offered in 10 other languages.

as well as described video and asl. 20,000 canadians have weighed in, telling us what they want to hear from the leaders and five themes have emerged. leadership and accountability, climate change, reconciliation, affordability and covid recovery. tonight, four undecided voters and journalists, maybe the journalists are undecided as well, we'll be putting their questions directly to the leaders and you leaders have agreed to tonight's rules and format. before we begin, please answer the questions you are asked. do not interrupt each other. i don't want to cut you off but i will if i have to. let's get started. ♪ . you will each get a different question and you will have 45 seconds to answer. you all have a countdown clock. the theme is the leadership and

accountability. your speaking order has been determined by draw. mr. singh, you are first. you are popular and you inspired many canadians but your platform is full of big promises and when it comes to how you will pay for it all, there is not a lot of details. given this, how can canadians know that you are really ready to lead? mr. singh: i appreciate the question and i want to say good evening to everyone tuning in. it is a serious question people are asking themselves. they are wondering who is going to pay the price of this pandemic at the recovery. we do have old plans on how we -- bold old plans on how we can invest in people. we're the only party with a credible plan that will not put the burden on people, that will not cut the help they need unlike mr. trudeau and mr. o'toole who voted against making

them pay their fair share. we leave billionaire should pay their fair share. we should end the loopholes and the offshore tax havens. that means billions of dollars are lost that we are not able to invest in people. we want to put the burden on those who are at the very top so we can invest in the solutions people need. tackling the climate crisis, investing in housing. >> thank you. next to you, mr. trudeau, because you wanted a new mandate, you plunged the country into an election even as the pandemic spurs thousands of new cases. over the last 18 months, opposition parties have largely stood with you, putting the nation above politics. why are you not doing the same? how can you justify an election at this time? prime minister trudeau: thank. -- thank you. first of all, i want to thank you canadians for being here tonight. and also quite frankly for everything you have done over the past number of months to help get ourselves and our neighbors through this.

over the next couple of hours, you are going to hear some very different, very strong ideas that are radically different about how we are going to move forward through this pandemic to end it. how we are going to build back better. those decisions are going to be taken by your government now in the coming weeks. this fall. not a year from now. not two years from now. >> could it not have waited a few months? prime minister trudeau: i know you want to go harder and faster on vaccinations. i know you want to go harder and faster on climate change, and you get to choose exactly that and this election. >> that is time. thank you. mr. blanchet, you deny quebec has problems with racism yet you defend legislation that marginalizes religious minorities, anglophones and allophones. quebec is recognized as a distinct society but for those outside the province, help them understand why your party also supports these discriminatory laws. mr. blanchet: the question seems

to imply the answer you want. those laws are not about discrimination. they are about the values of quebec. >> minorities cannot progress. if they wear their religious gear. mr. blanchet: quebec is not recognized as a distinct society. it is recognized as a nation on june 16. by the parliament. 281 votes said quebec is a nation and everybody here seems to agree with that. no more distinct society, which never adds any more meaning anyway. >> again, why they discriminatory laws and your support for it? mr. blanchet: we may repeat as may times as you want but those are not discriminatory laws. there seems to be people around here who will share this point of view which is by itself for quebec. >> thank you.

ms. paul, to you. for millions of voters, this is the climate change election. at this critical time, you have been bogged down in internal strife. if your own party does not fully support you, how can canadians trust you to lead through one of the most defining issues of our time? ms. paul: it is an excellent question and it is an honor to be here tonight on the unseeded territories of the algonquin people. it has been a very difficult period. do i wish our party had been further ahead particularly at this moment? absolutely. do i believe we have wonderful candidates running all over the country that you should consider voting for? absolutely. being who i am and in this position has been incredibly hard. being here tonight was not an obvious thing. i have had to crawl over a lot of broken glass to get here. i'm proud to be here.

i'm proud to be the first of my kind and because i am the first of my kind, i know i will not be the last. >> thank you, mr. paul. and to you, mr. o'toole. you recommend vaccination, but you will not a candidates get them. you talk about climate plan but you will not dump a candidate that shares climate conspiracies. you are on record supporting the lgbtq community but you allowed half of your mps to vote against ajit -- legislation protecting them. how can voters trust it is you and not your caucus that will be in charge of a conservative policy agenda? mr. o'toole: thank you, i am the new leader of the conservative party, and we have a plan to get the country back on its feet after a difficult worst 18 months of the crisis. i am an ally to the lgbtq community, and that comes from my service in the military where i served alongside people of all

backgrounds, all orientations, putting the country first. our platform including a detailed plan on climate change is about making sure we secure the future. jobs, accountability, national leadership. >> is it you or your caucus driving the bus? mr. o'toole: i am driving the bus to make sure we get this country back on track. i'm here to defend the rights of all canadians, women, members of the lgbtq community, indigenous canadians. i want to make sure we all secure a future together. >> thank you, mr. o'toole. it is now time for our first face-to-face debate. mr. trudeau, ms. paul, you are up. starting with mr. trudeau based on this question. you call yourself a feminist but on your watch, sexual misconduct in canada's armed forces continues to run rampant. why are you allowing these unacceptable conditions to continue? prime minister trudeau: we recognize there are systems and institutions that need to change across the country, and that is why from the very beginning we stepped up with policies and

stronger policies and processes to support every survivor. nobody deserves to be working in a workplace where they are being discriminated against, being harassed or hassled. we have been unequivocal about that. my leadership has been unequivocal about that. yes, these problems continue in workplaces across the country. particularly in the military. that is unacceptable, which is why we have taken stronger measures. it is unsatisfactory to say we are relying on process. we want to be able to have easy answers. >> ms. paul, what is your response to that? ms. paul: i've said before and i will say again tonight i do not believe mr. trudeau is a real feminist. a feminist does not continue to push strong women out of his party when they are just seeking to serve and i will say their names tonight and thank them. thank you, jane. thank you, jodi. thank you, selena.

i am here tonight thanks to the work you have done. i believe if there were more women on this platform tonight and in previous years that we would have better laws in our military. we would have childcare at this point. it would have many of the things we need. i am the only woman other than elizabeth to be on this platform in the last 18 years. the liberal party has never had a woman. i think it is time for the party to examine -- prime minister trudeau: i will not take lessons on caucus management from you. mr. paul: i will not take lessons from you. prime minister trudeau: making sure our first woman finance minister has moved forward. >> all right, mr. trudeau. that is time. we have to move on. mr. blanchet, mr. o'toole, and mr. singh. this next topic is for you to debate. canada's transition to a green economy depends on pipelines. at a time when there is

uncertainty energy supply over line five, this country cannot extract nor distribute oil domestically. our theme is leadership. which one of you is best to lead on these complex issues? mr. blanchet, you begin. mr. blanchet: i am not much interested in leading canada. however, i am very much interested in making sure quebec is entitled to its own vision for the future. in quebec, we do not have energy issues that much because we are lucky. it is luck that we can produce green energy and a large amount but the whole planet cannot afford this idea. this canadian idea, this conservative idea, and as far as i know, this very liberal idea we have to produce more oil, export more oil believing that the money from it will reduce gas emissions, which will not happen. mr. o'toole: all canadian

families deserve an economic recovery, including families in western canada that feel left out after six years of mr. trudeau. when it comes to leadership, our natural resources sector is a leader in environmental social governance. anytime canadian resources are removed from the global supply chain, you know who fills that gap? saudi arabia, venezuela, russia. all of these organizations and companies are getting their admissions down. let's get emissions down and canadian resources to market so we can have job opportunity and fight climate change. mr. singh: when it comes to leadership on fighting this crisis, one of the biggest crisis we are up against, you have a difficult choice for canadians. you have on one side someone who does not believe there is a crisis, and on the other, you have mr. trudeau who does not act like there is a crisis. what is going to take his real leadership. the solutions are there. we can invest in clean energy. green energy. [talking over each other]

>> one at a time, gentlemen. mr. singh: i want to see canadians get back to work. in all sectors and regions. i am proud of what we produce in our country whether it is our resources or the resources in the heads of our young people. >> these workers need a plan that is going to create jobs for the future. that is the responsibility of government. we have seen six years of mr. trudeau, cannot afford another four years. we need to do is invest in a diversified economy. clean energy. we need to electrify transportation. we need to invest in retrofitting homes and buildings. we need an economic recovery in all sectors. >> last word to you, mr. blanchet. mr. blanchet: leadership is not only saying the words. it is proposing solutions, admitting a problem, which they are not doing. >> thank you. my next question is for all of you.

we have had some encouraging news out of kabul overnight with the escape of 43 canadians. that said, thousands of people who helped canada during canada's mission in afghanistan have been left behind in their hour of need and it is unknown if we will ever get them all out. to each of you, what would you have done differently? mr. o'toole: canada should never leave behind people that are at risk because they helped us. when afghanistan was falling, there were 1200 canadians and hundreds more translators and others waiting for help from canada. what did mr. trudeau do? you called an election. you put your own political interest ahead of the well-being of thousands of people. leadership is about putting others first. not yourself. you should not have called the election. you should have gotten the job done in afghanistan. >> hold on. this is not open debate.

this is a situation where we are asking a question to each of you. no problem, mr. trudeau. i am trying to keep track, myself. mr. o'toole: he called an election in the fourth wave of a pandemic with fires in british columbia and unfinished business in afghanistan. >> i'm going to give the opportunity next to mr. singh. you guys will have tons of time to debate, so hang tight. mr. singh: sadly what has happened in afghanistan is a tragedy that was something we knew about. we knew about the withdrawal date. we knew from president biden but that it would be in sadly i agree with mr. o'toole on this one point. it was a bad decision to call an election while this crisis was going on because we have allies on the ground that put their lives at risk to support our canadian forces who are looking at peril for their lives and may never get out of afghanistan. we know the impact on women and girls in afghanistan. it is heartbreaking and it could have been avoided.

veterans have told mr. trudeau and his government for a long time the current approach was not working. those calls were not heeded. as a result, we are in this really horrible situation that could have been avoided. mr. blanchet: what i seem to understand from what i've read is kabul airport is being opened for some people to get out of the country, which is very good news. this should have been worked a long time ago. announcer: -- i agree with mr. o'toole. mr. trudeau should have those people's interest before his own. however, the problem is that canada has failed many times to create some strong partnerships with other countries in order to be stronger facing a situation like afghanistan now. by itself, we must admit, canada is not a world power. >> mr. trudeau, i invite you to respond now. prime minister trudeau: it is unfortunate to hear the members, the leaders on the stage talking down the incredible work our

canadian armed forces, our diplomats, our consular officials did from the beginning of the summer to ensure as of the very beginning of august, well before this election, we were getting flights out of afghanistan. we got 3700 people out of afghanistan and over the past weeks, we have been working with the qatari's exactly on that good news we have seen of more canadians getting out of afghanistan. we work closely with our allies because we know the canadian sacrifice for a better future. we need to stand by the people who helped us. we will with even more people in the coming months. ms. paul: as a former diplomat and with a husband who provided advice on the peace negotiations in afghanistan, we were hearing the stories all the time in the months leading up this was foreseeable. it seems we got utter -- better information on our

smart phones then mr. trudeau got from our entire intelligence service based on what he is saying. the thing is when people count on you, when you make a promise to them, then you do it so people can count on canada's word. when someone is your partner, you go with them, you go for them or you do not amount to much. leaving behind people in afghanistan, walking up and calling an election under these circumstances was not the right thing to do. to borrow a line from mr. singh, from 2019, mr. trudeau could say hey man, i messed up. >> thank you all. now it is our time for a first attempt at open debate. jumping off of this question, michael colberg and michael sabir have been in chinese prisons for 1004 days. the next prime minister as key decisions to make about our already tense relationships with china, such as telecommunications security and

foreign investment. some say this all comes down to a trade-off between canada's economic growth and recognition of human rights. i would like to know where you all stand. i'm sure you would like to exchange on that. mr. singh, you may begin. leaders, you may jump in. mr. singh: thank you very much. we know that we cannot imagine what it is for them to be going through 1000 plus days in prison without human rights. i can't imagine what their friends and families are going through. all i know is we have to do everything possible to secure their release. we need to work with our allies, apply pressure, and make sure we return these canadians home. prime minister trudeau: and that is exactly what we have been doing. over the past three years, we have worked with international allies to put pressure on china. we have worked closely with the united states. we at the g7 a few weeks ago worked with the international community to make sure we are moving forward on challenging china were necessary on human

rights, competing with them where we need to and holding them to account on the rule of law as a global community and canada's voice has been very strong on that. mr. o'toole: canada's voice has been absent. we have not worked with our allies on huawei. we have not stood up for the 300,000 canadians in hong kong. we have not fought for the two michael's and put pressure on the communist regime. we have not stood up for human rights. you did not show up for vote declaring a genocide toward the weaker people. you did not show up. canada was leading the fight against apartheid. we created the un human rights code. we should be leaders for our values, sir. you have let the michael's down. we have to get serious with china. prime minister trudeau: if you want to get the michael's home, you do not simply log tomatoes across the pacific. that is what mr. harper tried for a number of years and did not it anywhere. you need to engage with our allies every step of the way.

>> all right. mr. o'toole: we are out of step at our allies are wondering where canada has gone. you started as prime minister singh you admired china. >> i'm coming to you, ms. paul. just a second. mr. singh: thank you very much. we are talking to leadership and accountability. in this pandemic, one of the moments that have been a failure is when we talk about leadership it means finding solutions. in our long-term care homes in canada, we saw the worst conditions. >> your going to have time to chat with that later. the topic is china, human rights and economic growth. ms. paul: this is an area where lines are being redrawn all across the world. the main thing canada is going to have going forward in terms of currency is its word. when we make a promise, we have

to keep those promises. that is how when we need help, we get it. my mom grew up on a farm in a small community and she taught us you have to give your word to your neighbors and they have to be able to count on it so when you need help, they are there for you. when we don't show up when we are asked for vaccines from covax and we take a vaccines from covax, when the uighurs ask for help to declare a genocide and we don't do that, when we don't show up on the climate by setting targets that are ambitious but at the same time in line with our international partners and do our fair share, then our word does not count for much, and it makes it hard for us to help people like michael's when they need us the most. mr. blanchet: throwing tomatoes might not be the solution but i would submit humbly doing nothing might not be the solution either. mr. trudeau's record on human rights is not perfect. we might name the two

michael's, we might name taiwan, hong kong. we might name catalonia. we might name the worst of all. in saudi arabia because canada wants to sell weapons and military supplies. >> one at a time. mr. blanchet: the parliament voted unanimously to give citizenship but nothing has been done afterward. >> mr. o'toole. mr. trudeau. mr. singh. mr. o'toole: canada is needed back on the world stage. we may be smaller but we are a giant when it comes to our commitments to human rights, dignity and the rule of law , and we have to start working with our allies to make a more serious approach for human rights, standing up for workers on fair trade, and making sure our voices a principled one on the world stage again. prime minister trudeau: the problem with mr. o'toole and his

principles is he says all the right sounding things and he is working on reassuring everyone he is right there is a strong leader but he cannot convince his candidates to get vaccinated. he cannot convince his mps -- >> let's keep the theme. i'm giving the last word to mr. singh. mr. singh: leadership men -- means standing up. it means standing up to defend people around the world. it also means showing leadership when it comes to fighting the climate crisis, we have the worst record in the g7. that is not leadership. certainly not. >> thank you. thank you, leaders. we are now moving on to our next theme, which is climate change. ♪ this time, we are starting with a question from trevor mcmullen. he is a high school teacher. he is standing by. trevor, what is your question? >> good evening. as leaders, what immediate action would you take to make

technology more acceptable and affordable so everyday canadians do not have to bear the financial burden of being find -- environmentally ethical? >> thank you. you heard trevor's question, ms. paul, you're going first. ms. paul: thank you for that question. that is exactly where your head should be at. that is were all of our head should be at. how can we use this opportunity to seize the moment to create a green economy? how can we incentivize every person and company in canada, every enterprise to adopt green energy and how can we become a global leader? if you look at our platform, we have proposed incentives from buying electric cars new and used to retrofitting homes, all of these items that will help make life easier for you and help you do your part. this is a national and international issue. we need national leadership on

it across party lines. >> thank you, mr. singh. -- two, mr. paul. mr. singh. mr. singh: i am sure you speak to a lot of young people and you see the worry in their eyes because they do not know the future they are going to inherit, and they are worried about the impacts of the climate crisis. because it is hurting us now, and it is going to get worse if we do not do anything about it. to invest in the future, we need to make choice. right now, we look at the traces -- choices mr. trudeau has made over the past six years, he has promised fossil fuel subsidies, but instead of ending them he has increased them to $900 million per year. that is money we could spend on investing in clean technology. making it easier for people to access that technology and to do our part to fight the climate crisis. we cannot afford another four years. >> thank you, mr. singh. to you, mr. o'toole.

mr. o'toole: thank you, trevor. i was raised by two teachers, and we have not met the expectations of canadians on climate change. it is an important issue for me as a father of a highschooler, and we talk about it all the time. that is why in april, i put out a substantial package to meet the paris target. what is interesting, our low carbon savings account will allow people to make green choices to lower their carbon footprint. this approach is innovative, it will allow all canadians know what their carbon footprint is and make those innovative investments to lower it. we all have a role to play, and our plan is sound that we will deliver on it. mr. blanchet: i hope you appreciate blunt answers. first, you cannot put a ceiling -- you put a ceiling on a production of oil and gas. you take all the money placed

into the industry, and you put that into green energy. you take the money or transportation and give it to alberta. it will shape its own transition toward a greener economy. this is the way to do things, because if we do not and keep dreaming about reducing gas emissions, while increasing production, we will never get there. >> thank you, mr. blanchet. mr. trudeau? prime minister trudeau: you need to ground your decisions with your students in science. all these leaders have various claims about what their climate change plan is going to do, unfortunately if you look at the experts and the climate scientists and the economists of said, we are the ones with the strongest plan. how to answer your question more specific and make it more affordable for canadians, the

first thing, bringing a national solution that incentivizes businesses to go cleaner, at the same time it puts more money in family's pockets. we are going to put a cap on oil and gas emissions in decline -- and decline it until net zero and increase opportunities for investments that are going to make it more affordable for you and your students for years to come. >> thank you, mr. trudeau. thank you, trevor. have a good evening. i'm turning it back to the leaders, it is time for more debate. mr. trudeau and mr. o'toole facing off. your topic is climate change. even today, one in four canadians do not believe climate change is caused by human activity. how can we achieve real progress when so many people are still debating the fundamentals? mr. o'toole, you will begin. mr. o'toole: climate change is real threat to canada and the world. we have to take a serious plan to tackle it. we put a plan out in april. we have to restore some trust on

this issue to make sure we can show canadians we can get emissions down and get the economy working again. that is key. we have a plan to meet our paris targets but minimize the impact on jobs and investments. we are also going to make major investments in electric vehicles and the hydrogen economy, small modular reactors. there's so much we can do to get our emissions down but grow stronger economy, without a strong economy, we cannot tackle climate change. prime minister trudeau: what mr. o'toole has never understood is you cannot have a strong economy without tackling climate change. you can ask how we will convince the one in four canadians who believe climate change is not real, mr. o'toole cannot convince his party climate change is real. they voted against that. that is why his plan is to week. -- too weak.

harbor targets which doesn't work. he plans to make cuts -- >> let him respond. let mr. o'toole respond. mr. o'toole: mr. trudeau has always forgotten one fact, he never made a target for climate change, he has great ambition, part of the reason we are in an election in a pandemic is his ambition. [voices overlapping] >> gentlemen, we have to wrap the segment. we are moving on. next up is mr. singh, mr. blanchet, and ms. paul. i would like you to describe how you would implement a national approach that esther recognizes the significant regional differences

involved in sliding -- in fighting change. you begin, mr. singh, you may jump and one at a time. mr. singh: we just heard mr. o'toole and mr. trudeau argue. who is worse? it is a tough question to answer. let me tell you, you are not stuck with these two. better as possible. we can invest in a clean economy. we can end fossil fuel subsidies. we can make sure we are creating clean transportation and investing provinces and territories to make sure they have the resources necessary to fight the climate crisis. i am hopeful, optimistic. i am going to be a dancing, and i want to make sure my child grows up into a future that has the same opportunity i had, clean air, clean water, a clean place to live. mr. blanchet: it is not a national or regional issue, it is a planetary issue. it has to be tackled by everyone at once. i would be glad to give some of my precious time to mr. o'toole.

a little more than a week ago, he said in french he did not want anymore to have a pipeline to go through quebec. that was quite a statement. he said that in french. no more pipeline in quebec. i want to hear that in english. [laughter] >> hold on. this segment -- [voices overlapping] this sort of approach is going -- mr. paul: this approach is going to get us nowhere. the question was an excellent one this is a global issue. this is a national issue and not artisan issue. we have got to be able to come together across party lines. i said that i was available for a debate just on the climate because it is that important. we've invited many times, all the parties to join us in a joint cabinet across party cabinet to deal with this the way we dealt with the pandemic.

together. people were inspired to see the leaders come together in the early days of the pandemic. we have got to bring that same approach here. let us come together. that is what is needed. mr. singh: i agree that we need to come together. what we should not do is what mr. trudeau did, set targets and miss them. we should not promise to end fossil feel subsidies and then increase them. we should not put a price on pollution and then exempt the biggest polluters. we need to invest in provinces and territories with infrastructure. [voices overlapping] >> hold on, mr. singh. chris paul: with the greatest of respect to mr. singh, we have been making this invitation for years, it has never been accepted by the ndp or any other party. >> we have to wrap this section, now, leaders. it is time for me with great pleasure to welcome ms. stephenson with global

news. she is going to be asking a direct question on climate change. reporter: thank you for having me. candidates, it is a pleasure to have ask you a question on make canadians minds. the question of climate change. mr. trudeau, on your watch, canada's greenhouse gas emissions about up every year since 2016, giving this country the worst emissions reduction record in the g7. according to the recent data from your government, canada's emissions in were just as high 2019 as they were 15 years ago. environmentalists say your performance is insufficient. if you're serious about climate change, why are canada's emissions still going up? prime minister trudeau: we inherited a government from a conservative that did not believe in the fight against climate change. we had a lot of catching up to do. what we've done six years is put a national price on pollution,

banned plastics, protected more of our oceans and rivers in any government in history. we are right now on track to exceeding those 2030 targets set at the beginning in paris down 236%, and we've gone even further. we have a concrete plan that the experts have said is the only one that can achieve a 40% -- reporter: ok, mr. blanchet? your party often criticizes the oil. you said he would block pipelines trying to go through quebec. when you were the environment minister, you allowed carbon intensive projects and oil exploration without environmental assessment. why the double standard what you -- why the double standard? and what do you say to canadians who feel you're blocking their prosperity? mr. blanchet: there are three issues that been raised in this election. first was reversed a few years

sooner without any evaluation. the second is a project which already had been submitted for evaluation and environmental evaluation. i will come to that evaluation after the exploration. this was paid by the previously environmentalists, which the prime minister did not even know about. having signed the carbon market with california, which is still considered the best way to tackle the gas emission through incentives. >> that is time. mercedes, your next question. reporter: mr. o'toole, with your

plan, canada would abandon its current climate target. instead, you would settle for a weaker one, when set six years ago by stephen harper. world leaders are meeting this fall to ratchet up commitments on climate change on the global stage, yet, you would walk ours back. use of the climate change is real, and you have endorsed carbon pricing. but your target is the lowest of all the major parties who here tonight. why should canadians settle for your plan, a plan that would take our targets back in time. mr. o'toole: canadians have deserve to have a plan. and leadership to make the target. mr. trudeau went to paris. the targets i'm talking about are the ones he signed onto and then for six years, did not make them. he likes to blame everyone but himself. what we did, we have to build trust on this issue, we went out and worked with the top consultants in the country to come up with a plan to price carbon, get our admissions down

-- emissions down to meet paris, but also get people back to work after covid-19. with half $1 trillion worth of debt with the cost-of-living crisis, it also means that we will get our emissions down. we will make our emissions target. it is important for candidates have applied to me to what it signs onto internationally. reporter: ms. paul, obviously environment a big part of your plan. it calls for a 60% reduction in canada's emissions by other 2030. countries are making the commitment do not face the same challenges we do in canada. we live in a cold, northern, sprawling country. our economy still relies on fuel -- resource extraction, most of which you said you which i don't completely in your platform. how would you offset the economic harm that would come from meeting such an aggressive target? ms. paul: when i think about the future of energy, canada will

remain an energy superpower, i we will be a renewable energy superpower. i think about my brother, who was a roughneck out on the oil patch until the bus during the pandemic, and i think about his future, and i know we have to diverse i our economy. what happens next is up to you. we can keep moving toward a mirage, and that is what these promises are, a mirage in the distance that we never arrive at, or you can send people back to ottawa from every party who were committed to working together across party lines on the greatest existential challenge of our time and seizing the opportunity of the truly green recovery. reporter: mr. singh, you accuse the trudeau government of being all talk and no action when it comes to climate change. yet, you will not even give canadians a straight answer on whether or not you would cancel the trans mountain pipeline expansion. you had years to develop a climate plan.

your platform has a lot of big ideas, big targets, but almost no details on how you would get there. don't you owe canadians a clear answer on your climate roadmap and will you provide one tonight? mr. singh: we have a bold plan that is going to take a lot of courage, lots of investment. we know how serious this crisis is. we know what we are up against. unlike mr. trudeau, we are not going to blame previous governments. we know the in power, we have the power to make a change. if we hope for the same things, we are going to get the same results. you have a choice. reporter: but what is your plan tomorrow mr. singh: one is to -- but what is your plan? mr. singh: one is to end fossil fuel subsidies, use that to invest in clean energy. we would prioritize investing in electrified transportation, retrofitting homes and buildings to reduce emissions, there's so much we can do. we are confident we can do it. but there is a cost if we continue down the same path of conservatives and liberals who

do not take this seriously. you have a choice. >> thank you. now it is time for open debate. mercedes is going to keep you on theme, i'm going to keep on time and make sure everyone has a chance to be heard. ms. paul, we are starting with you. back to you, mercedes. reporter: canadians want their government to fight climate change. but they also worry about the cost for their families. we know there will be a cost to this. why should canadians trust your party to see us through this? ms. paul: there is a global rush -- global green rush going on now to create a competitive green economy of the future. what the greens do not want to see is canada being left behind. that is what is happening. i am sure that the last candle maker that had the market cornered on candlemaking, but if everyone has moved on to led lights, then you are in trouble.

we want to seize this opportunity, to your earlier question, if denmark and greenland, other quote countries can and exploration, then certainly we can do it. if 27 countries in the european union can come together to have an ambitious plan for the climate, surely we can do the same in canada. i know canada can do anything any other country and do. mr. singh: absolutely. mr. trudeau: if any type of energy is removed from the global climate, it is replaced by bad actor country that does not have carbon reduction rooms, human rights, engagement with indigenous communities. indigenous partnerships. natural resources is huge. you said the cost, there are tens of thousands of jobs that -- mr. o'toole: there are tens of thousands of jobs that deserve an economic recovery is much as anybody else. there are indigenous partnerships, economic reconciliation, to make canada net zero by 2050.

let's be leaders in getting carbon emissions down and be world leaders on how we have natural resources, whether it is energy, timber. >> mr. singh? mr. singh: the cost of inaction is an entire town being wiped out by a climate force fire. the cost of inaction is for -- force fires, flooding and heat waves. the cost of not acting means a young woman who looked me in the eyes and said, what is the point of me pursuing my education? what is the point of me finding a partner, starting a family why -- a family, when i do not know what future i will live in, let alone my child? that is the cost of inaction. that is the cost of mr. trudeau, who had six years to do something about this. six years and he failed -- >> mr. trudeau. prime minister trudeau: when we

talk about it climate crisis, we have to talk about the facts. one fact i have to lay into his we have not missed our targets. we are on track to exceed our targets. [voices overlapping] secondly, i do have a plan -- we need to talk about science, experts. you and i agree on the how is it that the experts that have rated our plan to be an a and rated your plan to be f? [voices overlapping] mr. singh: you were talking about the future, let's talk about right now. you had six years. let me finish. you got the worst track record in all the g7 after six years. how can anybody trust you? >> mr. singh, mr. trudeau -- [voices overlapping]

all don, -- hold on. mr. singh, thank you very much. mr. trudeau. prime minister trudeau: he cannot explain why is plan has been panned by experts. every politician says we have the best plan. we actually have a record. the question was, how do we make sure it is affordable? we brought in price solution across the country that puts more money back in the pockets and provinces where it had to be imposed because conservative politicians fought at every step of the way. >> ms. paul? ms. paul: with the greatest of respect, i think the five phd's in our shadow cabinet who put together our green recovery policy would disagree with the experts. i do want to say more generally that this is getting us nowhere. we've got to be able to come together across party lines, not only to face the existential

crisis that mr. singh described, but also to see the greatest economic opportunity that canada has seen within our lifetime. we are being left behind, and if the united states can do it, the european union can do it, i know we can do it. it is about changing culture. >> mr. blanchet, did you want to get in? mr. blanchet: i am quite behind everybody else and cap 12-seconds left. >> >> -- there's a possibility to create more without the cost of the changes that we need. we must stop opposing environment and creating wealth. it may go together well. this is a change we have to do. >> thank you, sir. thank you, mercedes. now we are moving on to her next theme, reconciliation. ♪ we are going to our first time

voter. he has got a question for the leaders. you are 18 years old, a first time voter, what is your question to the leaders? go ahead. the leaders are listening. >> in our culture, trust and respect is key to any relationship. >> you've got it, keep going. >> how can i trust the federal government after 150 plus years of lies and abuse to my people? as prime minister, what will you do to rebuild the relationship between first nations and the federal government? >> thank you. leaders, you heard the question. how do you respond? mr. trudeau, you start this round. prime minister trudeau: thank you, for your question. you're absolutely right. over the past 150 years, canada has failed in its

relationship with indigenous people. people we should be working with and sharing stewardship of the land, working in partnership with as we draw from the bounty and beauty of this land to build a better future for all. that is why, over the past six years, we have stepped up on the path to reconciliation. we have ended boil water advisories in 109 communities. we have made sure tens of thousands of young people get to go to school in better classrooms. we continue to move forward on fighting for the missing and murdered indigenous women and girls and ensuring a true partnership as we move forward in this respect. mr. blanchet: your question is quite moving. i would say that no one is entitled to tell any nation what to do or what to think. and every nation has to be record raised as such. either it is a nation of 300 people like

there is in quebec or 8 million people. it calls for a relationship between equals. it calls for a relationship in which nobody tells the other party that they are stronger, bigger, richer and therefore you will do as you are told, even if we say it politely. and first you provide clean water. >> thank you. ms. paul? ms. paul: thank you for the question. i understand the english inmate, as well. coming from a diaspora myself or -- where we have been robbed of our culture, our language, our history, i've no idea where my ancestors were born or buried. i completely understand how important this it is, and how frustrating not to see the action. i'm tired of being on these stages without indigenous leadership here to speak for it.

-- speak for itself. when they said without action, the parliament would abolish human rights. indigenous sovereignty, nation to nation engagement, that is my commitment. mr. o'toole: mr. macleod, thank you for the question. the way you phrased it is so important. reconciliation is about trust and respect and restoring after a century and a half of the federal government failing. that is why, as opposition leader, my first question in the house of commons was a call to action on reconciliation with respect to indigenous health. we need to build partnerships, restore trust. that trust is eroded when you make commitments on safe drinking water on reserve, when you make commitments on the calls to action and have no plan to fulfill them. i want to build partnerships and

have indigenous leaders have governance over the federal government finally delivering on our commitment to indigenous people. mr. singh: thank you for your question. how to restore trust? how do you restore trust when indigenous communities suffer injustice, and it continues in an unbroken line to this day? how you restore trust when you've got a prime minister that takes a knee one day and takes indigenous kids to court the next? how do you restore trust in a country as wealthy as ours, a g7 nation in the 21st century, that still does not provide clean drinking water to every single indigenous nation? it starts by actually walking the path of reconciliation, not with empty words, but real action, clean water, nation to nation, and respect. >> thank you.

merrick, did the leaders answer your question? >> yes. >> thank you very much. mr. blanchet and o'toole, it is your turn to debate now. you have promised more money to search for unmarked graves, but so much more needs to be done to achieve meaningful reconciliation. mr. blanchet, you begin, how are you better positioned than mr. o'toole to restore justice? mr. blanchet: i'm am not better positioned the mr. o'toole, because i believe this is a relationship between nation. he represents one nation and i feel i represent another one, and we are discussing with all other nations. i would remind everybody that on the last day of the last session we had a motion adapted

unanimously by the parliament, and this motion was precisely saying what we've been told to carry by the first nation leaders. this might be the way to do it. many times they block the requests, and we do not agree with everything that we would share, and our voices in the parliament with the first nations in order to ask them being heard by the whole country. mr. o'toole: after the tragic finding of graves that residential school sites, we offered to work on a bipartisan faction. those are related to former residential school sites. we need to act faster. i know mr. trudeau cares a great deal about reconciliation, we all do. this is an issue where we have to act, we can no longer say that we recognize the calls to action. we need a plan to achieve them. what i am proposing is a plan that builds partnerships, builds governance, has indigenous

leaders, incredible one, to allow us to hold ourselves to account. all parties, all future governments. this is the big scar in the history of canada. we have to tackle it, not just with good intentions, but with a good plan to deliver for all indigenous peoples. mr. blanchet: the prime minister -- he does not agree with the idea of acknowledging and recognizing first nation languages as official languages in his country. >> we will leave that segment there. ms. paul, mr. singh, mr. trudeau, you're up. tell me what is your plan to end the ongoing disproportionate violence against indigenous women and girls? ms. paul? ms. paul: the first thing is to make space for indigenous

leadership. we have made all these promises, we know what needs to be done. the recommendations are there, in the calls for justice, missing and murdered indigenous women reports, and we still don't have the action. as i said before, it should be jodey up here answering the question.

we work with indigenous leaders and indigenous women's groups to develop an actual plan that we are now funding so we can get justice for the victims, healing for the families, and put in and to this ongoing national tragedy. it will take a lot of work, but we are walking this road in partnership because we know it needs to be done, and there is more to do. >> the calls for justice are out there, you have not acted on them. you cannot take anyone day and take indigenous kids to court the next. >> that is not true. [voices overlapping] mr. singh: when you're taking them to court. leaders, i would at -- remind you the questions about violence to indigenous women and girls. >> this is why we need more diversity in politics. this is

why we need people to be -- directly impacted by issues to speak for themselves. we are only dedicated to minutes to talk about how we are going to bring true bring true justice tradition as women. >> on this topic, it was brought up in the earlier one and we talked about indigenous women. want to talk about those kids buried in unmarked graves across the country. it was a tragedy for all canadians. when i went to speak with the chief, we not only grieved those kids, we signed an agreement to keep kids at risk in their communities, to take them out of the provincial system. that is how we move forward. it took years to sign that agreement. we are empowering indigenous communities. >> we are out of time. mr. singh, i'm going to give you a brief moment. >> we need to implement all the calls for justice. need to into

indigenous women and girls. need to make sure we have the steps laid out that we need to follow. >> i am really pleased to welcome melissa of att a new. melissa is going to be asking you each a direct question on our theme of reconciliation. your first question is for mr. blanchet:. >> it is a pleasure to ask you questions. numerous government reports including in quebec have sounded the alarm that systemic racism exists. policing the justice system. what will you do as leader to address systemic racism in your own promise and also elsewhere in canada? >> never underestimate the sadness of those dramas. second,

i acknowledge, i recognize the existence of racism in june 2020. what happened? it became a political tool against quebec. it became a tool to say quebec is this and that and racist and xenophobic and all of that instead of opening a discussion, trying to find solutions, consulting experts, discussing with the first nations themselves. it became this against this other one. we build nothing. the words became toxic. >> where do we go from here? discussing all of that -- >> discussing all of that, the aggressive as this debate has gone. >> this a question for you, ms.

paul. canada has more children in government custody than at the height of residential schools. child welfare legislation takes the onus and puts at on the first nation communities to -- puts it on the first nation committees. children are going to have to be brought back to the same problems that still exist. what would you do in the house of commons to make sure poverty and trauma issues are addressed? >> thank you very much for that question and absolutely. we mentioned not that long ago in one of our statements that the residential school system had been replaced by children in care and this was perpetuating the legacy of trauma. it comes back to what i said before, which is that the indigenous leadership is there. it is ready to guide all of the processes.

we have all the recommendations we need. what we are missing is political will. those who have an in power for a very long time making space for new voices and diverse voices. i had to pull my jaw up when i heard what mr. blanchet said. i invited mr. blanchet to get educated about systemic termination. this is my time. >> it is a nice time to insult people. ms. paul: it was an invitation to educate yourself. many minutes behind everyone else. >> you have had every opportunity to jump in during open debate. i'm fulfilling my responsibilities. we are going to keep moving on. >> is it my turn? thank you. your liberal government has turned indian affairs into massive bureaucracies that eat

up large portions of funding that will never see funding. you promised clean drinking water. billions of dollars later, that has not happened. many do not have clean drinking water. canadians and indigenous people are losing patience with the lack of results from all of this spending. i guess the question is, why would they believe you this third term that they would get results and you would be accountable for all that spending? >> one of the enemies of progressive politics is cynicism. discounting the hard work that millions of people have been involved in over the past year. there is always more work to do. when we came into office, there were 105 water advisories. we lifted 100 -- we lifted nine of them peered for each one remaining, we have a project team and an action plan.

there are tens of thousands of kids across this country who have started the school year in new schools or refurbished schools. we have moved forward on settling more agreements and land claims and more partnerships than any other government over the years. we continue to work in partnership and invest more money in indigenous communities. we are not done yet. >> i do think anybody is questioning the money spent. i think they're questioning the results for the money spent. when it question is for you, mr. singh. federal forces including the department of fisheries and oceans have been used throughout canada's history to prevent first nations from exercising their treaty rights to fish and hunt and defend land and water. this is happening right now on both coasts. including under the ndp party in british columbia with regards to fishing and logging. my question would be to you as prime minister. what would you do to ensure indigenous rights are respected in this country? >> first of all, we need to respect indigenous treaty land and rights. it is a fundamental step toward walking the path of

reconciliation in a meaningful way. you mentioned the rcp and i have to talk about the sad reality that there has been violence, heavy-handed violence against indigenous communities, against peaceful protesters. i have long called for reform of policing when i was in the provincial level. i have continued to use every platform i have to say we have got to stop the use of force. we have to change the rcp's mandate and that is something we can do at the federal level. that is something mr. trudeau said he would do and has yet to do. it is something i am committed to making sure happens. >> mr. o'toole, you voted against the u.n. declaration on the rights of indigenous people that would share decision-making power with indigenous people. you also want to criminalize indigenous dissent expressed through blockades or protest. if you were prime minister, how could canada build a respectful nation to nation relationship

with indigenous people? >> this goes very similar to an mr. macleod's on trust and respect. want to build those partnerships. that is why our only concern with the declaration as how prior consent was defined so it did not stop partnerships from being reformed. one of the early leaders behind the u.n. declaration is agreeing to serve as a special counsel to me on the implementation of that to make sure there are partnerships and opportunities. but i want to do as prime minister is build that type of nation to nation dialogue and partnerships are the next generation has intergenerational wealth and opportunity transfer, not trauma. voting that trust will

be core to me. it is why -- my first question was on reconciliation. we have got to make progress. >> now we move on to open debate. a reminder that melissa will be here to keep the leaders on theme. i will be here to do my best to keep you on time and all of you have an opportunity to jump in after mr. trudeau begins with a question from melissa. >> i think if there is one thing canadians and indigenous people can agree upon is that the system is not working for anybody. how would you dismantle the broken top-down system and what would you replace it with to ensure canada is living up to its constitutional obligations to indigenous people? >> first of all, we are the king forward to dismantling the indian act. it is a commitment of ours. it is not something ottawa gets to decide. what replaces the indian act will vary from community to community as we live up to our obligations. that is why over the years as we move towards self-government, we have accompanied communities, some who want to start with health, some who want to start with education, every community, every nation across this country

gets to help define what it's path is forward. we will be there to listen, to partner, to build a better future every step of the way. >> the way to go forward is to listen to leaders. mr. trudeau ignored when he had in his own cabinet. that was a huge lost opportunity. we have been speaking to people with how we can exhilarate treaty resolutions. there are some negotiations that have been going on for decades. we need to solve it and we need to work with indigenous leaders. there is incredible indigenous leaders in nonprofits, in the private sector, in industry, in academia. we need to use that capacity to finalize treaties and build partnerships. the best way forward is success for indigenous people alongside their neighbors. >> i'm coming to you, mr. trudeau. >> after a long time, we have seen there has been a top-down approach. i want to talk about

the impact. so we understand how severe this is. how the indian act is creating injustice and perpetuating injustice. i spoke to a young girl who lives in a scan to go. she told me in her own voice, she said i am a 12 year old girl and i'm fighting for clean drinking water. how does that make any sense? those words haunt me to this day. i'm thinking about what 12-year-olds do. there is sadly not fighting for clean drinking water. that is the impact. >> i want to go back to what mr. o'toole has been saying. he is saying all the right things but there are countless examples of him actually not living up to his words. we have seen them on a number of times during his campaign. on that religious issues, he said we need to listen to indigenous peoples. he proposed he would raise the flag at half mast for the kids in

unmarked graves in residential schools and he did not talk to or listen to any indigenous leaders when he made that decision. that is something that is important and symbolic but would not cause they sent how do we believe he would actually -- >> miss paul is trying to get in. i'm going to give ms. paul and mr. blanchet a chance to jump in. >> i want to try to re-center our conversation on indigenous peoples and what we are going to do to fulfill the many unfulfilled promises and commitments that have been made. i would say perhaps to pick up on what has been said, it seems all too often that reconciliation is treated like a buffet. often for pick this place but not the other one. that applies to what we have seen with with mr. trudeau and

the liberals. you cannot say reconciliation and then not allow them to have a decent, moderate living. you cannot call reconciliation and take indigenous people to court. you can also not say reconciliation and then support the ndp government in putting pipelines through indigenous territories or support line five after the tribe made it clear they did not support the project. >> mr. blanchet. >> first nations and quebec have something in common. they are blinded by a document they never signed. a relationship with nations should be dealt with freely signed treaties or agreements or something. the indian act has to be replaced one nation at a time if need be by and with freely signed treaties in agreement. there is

no other way. if i may come back a few seconds on something else, quebec wants out-of-state affairs because religion never protected equality and never will. >> we are over time. i'm going to give you both a chance to briefly respond. >> i am proud of this country and i think if you love your country, you can dig deep to make it better. as prime minister on the national day of reconciliation on september 30, i will raise the flag with the commitment to move forward on calls to action. mr. trudeau promises things, does not deliver and when people protested him, he mocked them. that is not reconciliation. you can be proud of your country. >> i think mr. trudeau may care. i think he cares but the reality is he is authentic a lot of things for show and has not

backed up those things with action pair the harm is indigenous people continue to suffer. i want to stop the suffering and lift up indigenous people. >> mr. trudeau, five seconds. >> the cynicism mr. singh as showing -- is showing his harmony reconciliation. we have lots more to do and we >> all right, leaders. thank you, melissa. it is time for the theme for tonight, affordability. (music)it is time to bring in janet. she is a senior working part-time in burlington, ontario. please tell us what your question is to the leaders. >> my question is this. at my age, i never imagined i would have to keep on working, but i have to to afford to live where i do. so i would like to know, when they become prime minister, what will they do to help us seniors survive?

>> thank you, janet. leaders, you have heard janet question. we're starting with you, mr. blanchet. >> for many months, the chemical has demanded for the government for the amount of money to be provided on a monthly basis to our elders. it is nowhere in the conservative program and in the liberal program, it starts at 75. nothing below 75 for this pension. it has to be done. those people are those who suffer the most from the pandemic. their power to buy things has reduced -- was made worse and the stress, the anxiety they live with is

terrible. we want something to be done and it has to start with a monthly check seriously increased. >> mr. o'toole. >> thank you for the question. this is a question facing our country. affordability. it is hitting our seniors the hardest. that is why in canada's recovery plan, our plan to give you a break, we are going to double the canada workers benefit. there many seniors like you having to work to keep up with the cost of living. we are going to double that for you to give you a break. we are going to get bills down for internet, for cellular phones. were going to get grocery bills down. that is our plan and our commitment. in december, we are going to give you a break and help rick and mortar stores in the process. mr. trudeau is borrowing every day for under $24 million and he is causing an inflation crisis. we have to secure a future and that is our commitment to you. >> mr. trudeau. >> thank you so much for your

question. we know that seniors have an deeply affected by this pandemic. the isolation, the extra cost. it is why we stepped up with a one-time support so you could get through this pandemic. we need longer-term support. one of the first things we did was increase the guaranteed income supplement for vulnerable single seniors. we are doing that again in our proposal in this election. we are also moving forward with increasing the oas for all seniors over 75 because we recognize the costs continue to increase as you get older and continue to want to live at home. we are giving you more support so you can stay-at-home safely. we will continue to have your backs as we have through this pandemic and into the future. >> mr. singh. >> i want to thank you for your question and one of the things you mentioned is you did not think you would have to keep on working. i don't think our

seniors should have to work. if seniors want to contribute by working, that is our right but you should not have had to work. in a country as rich as ours, we should make sure our seniors are able to retire with dignity and you have the support necessary to live a life of dignity. what we are proposing to do is put in place a guaranteed income for seniors so they can live with dignity. that is a starting point. what we have seen so far is mr. trudeau and mr. o'toole both are going to either cut the help you receive or put the burden back on people like you. believe the ultrarich should pay their fair share for once and invest in you and families and people. >> ms. paul. >> thank you very much for the question and as someone who comes from a family where my

grandmother and grandfather had to work until they were kicked out of working because they needed to keep working to afford the basics, i completely understand what you are saying. this is an opportunity for us to learn the lessons from this pandemic and get to the heart of things and to stop talking about the symptoms but to get to the root causes. we need to have and it is so wonderful took his -- so wonderful to see the consensus building around a guaranteed livable income. need universal long-term care. it is a huge expense. we need more affordable housing. it's get to the root causes. -- let's get to the root causes. >> mr. singh and mr. blanchet, you will both square off. you both talk about affordable housing but we know affordability means different things to different people depending on where in the country they live. when you talk about affordable housing, who are you really talking about? mr. singh, you begin. >> we are talking about people who are spending right now more than half their income on housing. that is not affordable.

people should not be spending so much on housing that they have no money left to pay for their groceries, to pay for their bills. the sad reality is since 2015 to now, the average cost of housing nationally has gone up by $300,000. so far, the housing crisis has gotten worse over the past six years. we want to invest in housing. we want to make it easier to buy your first home. to make available homes. >> social housing might be a solution to the problem. people are paying far too much for houses. the price has increased tremendously. the idea is to reduce the speed while helping people who cannot afford decent lodging. if we build more social lodging, which is much lower, that will lessen the pressure on those houses to become more and

more expensive. it will help -- i would not speak about inflation crisis but i would speak about an inflation worry, which we must have at present time. i believe one thing might be part of a solution for the other thing. >> that is time. you speak about inflation, mr. blanchet and that brings us to our next topic. mr. trudeau, mr. o'toole and ms. paul, you're up. inflation is at its highest level in a decade and it is squeezing canadians. what is your message to canadians who are struggling to make ends meet? >> unlike mr. trudeau, i will care about monetary policy because we need to keep inflation low. there is a crisis

hitting families. mr. trudeau seems completely oblivious to that. bills are going up. there is a housing crisis. he is making it worse. almost half $1 billion of borrowing per day. there are real risks on the horizon. we have a plan to get people work, get their bills down, give them a break. canadians deserve a break and balance the budget over the course of the next decade. that is exactly what we need to fight against mr. trudeau's inflation. >> it is just an excellent question and if you come to my neighborhood of toronto center, you will see people living in inadequate housing should you will see people paying more than half of their income for things like childcare. there is this expression in my culture where you talk about -- it is the things you delay that should have been done today. this is soon come. we have got to lend the lessons of the pandemic and

make sure we have a social safety net in place that lets everyone live with dignity. we invest in our people, we were investing in our future and this is the time for us to do that. it costs us not to do that should -- to do that. >> i made a straightforward promise to canadians that we would have your back. during this endemic, we were there to support people. we need to continue that. that is why we put forward a $10 a day childcare proposal that will save the average family in toronto close to $10,000 more than mr. o'toole's approach. we also put forward a national housing plan that will invest $4 billion to work with the housing crisis. [talking over each other] mr. o'toole's plan on housing gives half $1 billion on breaks to the wealthiest --

>> mr. o'toole. >> housing crisis has gotten worse under mr. trudeau. we got a plan to get rental housing built. we got a plan to get a million new homes in the next three years. mr. trudeau, canadians are worried. you are going to be taxing their primary home sale. advisors have said it. it is on page 14 of his policy book. he is introducing a new tax on the sale of homes. >> there will be more opportunities to speak about these issues. guess what. i am bringing out rosemary barton of cbc news and she is going to be asking you more direct questions and opening up more opportunities for debate. on this theme of affordability.

>> good to see everybody. try to get some answers this time. ms. paul, one of the plans you laid out to tackle affordability is a guaranteed livable income. give people a set amount of money to deal with their lives. there was an expert panel in british columbia recently that said that is not the way forward but that is too complicated for the needs of our societies. why do you think that is still a policy worth pursuing? >> guaranteed livable income is a policy whose time has come. we saw with the beginning of the pandemic how many people were thrown immediately into financial crisis because our patchwork system is not working. there is a growing consensus paired the members of the liberal party voted for it at their convention. 50 senators signed a letter calling for it. the time has come to ensure everyone has the support they need to live in dignity. the parliamentary budget officer looked at guaranteed livable

income. he examined the model in ontario and here is what he said. he said it would lift half the people in poverty out of this. it was affordable and it would not does incentivize work. this is the time for guaranty livable income. let's do it together. >> mr. o'toole, childcare is a huge expense for families. it would scrap the deals liberals have made. it would create spaces and eventually reduce fees to $10. you are proposing a tax credit that would reimburse just some families $6,000 a year. what is your plan do to create spaces and lower fees because as you know, it is not just about affordability but also about access. >> it is about helping all families now. not in five years helping some tiered our plan would help lower income families with up to 75% of the cost. our plan would also help that nurse on shift schedule that has jobs

in the evening that needs flexibility. what we want to do is help all families get ahead. >> if the nurse can't find a spot, what did she do with her children? >> as much flexibility as possible. if there is not one in her suburban community, there isin five years under mr. mr. 'e

them the best position they are in now to have the ability to help them in their circumstances. our plan will be immediate. it will help all canadian families. >> your promising to tackle skyrocketing housing prices. one way is the 20% tax on the sale of homes. if you are successful at cooling the housing market, that would mean people who have invested their life savings in their homes may not have it anymore. they are relying on that for their retirement. what is more important to you? helping younger people get access to the market or allowing older canadians who rely on the value of their home to live? mr. singh: a really fair question. and when i spoke to people, i go door to door. i ask the number one concern. they say housing. they say am not worried for myself but i'm right about my kids. they are more concerned their kids will never be able to find a home in their own circumstances. they are worried about their kids and the reality is, it is impossible for young people to even imagine buying a home let alone renting a place in their budget. we have got to get the big money out of housing. >> your answer is that it is more important for young people

to get into the housing market rather than protect people who have equity in their home now. mr. singh: we can do both. everyone is telling us the number one concern they have for their kid's they are not sure they ever going to own a home. it has gotten worse with mr. trudeau. we are going to fix it. >> statistics show that older seniors are less likely to have that income and higher health expenses, so why should that go to all instead of those that needed most? >> first, they are supposed to be the champion that fights against discrimination. what we want is those between 65 and 75 to do that in the meantime.

they have paid for a pension that should be the same for everybody, and the government creates two classes of seniors. it is unacceptable and it should not be political. >> we are moving to the opening debate. i think we would all agree. >> you said in 2019 that canadians should never have to make the impossible choice between paying for medications and putting on the table.

we have seen you willing to spend billions of dollars on programs that matter to your government. why is there no money in your platform or recent budget for a national program? is it no longer a priority? >> it continues to be a priority. no one should have to choose between paying for groceries and medication. on health investments, we were focused on covid-19 and supporting the provinces, making sure we were giving the support we needed so we could have canadians back, but at the same time, we worked with the number of jurisdictions and have signed with prince edward island a national universal -- >> there is nothing in your platform in terms of costing. i understand the pandemic kept you busy. what about going forward? >> we know --

we did it with prince edward island. we are going to continue to do with others. we can impose it on provinces that do not want it. we are going to work in partnership, as we have on so many things, to get it done, like we did on childcare. >> ok, and now we are going to move to open debate. starting back to you. >> ok. we start here with mr. blanchet? what is one policy change that would make the biggest difference to canadians in terms of their cost-of-living? the one change you would like to see that would help them the most? >> cost-of-living. that is quite interesting. that is a worry that we have. we believe that the most important thing is changing the way we create wealth. we believe that transforming our own natural resources with our

own clean energy in our region of québec will create more wealth. this wealth will come from environmental -- i will get this word. we will do that. we should be entitled to do that with our part of the money that is being sent again and again in oil and gas. >> there is one thing -- >> not really -- quickly. quickly. yes? >> will we have some seconds to speak about french-speaking communities. >> you missed it. >> one of the things we know is that the cost of living has gone up. zero dollars mean zero commitment. zero dollars. you have shown it with your cost

of budget. you have shown canadians clearly you have no interest in doing something. you promised to do it two years ago. you campaigned on it. you included it in your speech. and now you completely abandon it. how can people trust any promise you make when there is zero dollars in your plan? >> brief response, then i'm coming to you mr. o'toole. >> a billion dollars and are fully constant platform for priorities the canadians of told us of, better support for seniors, better support for mental health services, particularly for young people and access for primary care doctor or team. that is $25 billion over the next four years will give us. -- seven, 10 years. >> the question was what policy would have the biggest impact on

people's cost-of-living. >> ms. paul? >> the biggest thing that can make a difference in the cost of living for people is a change as a culture in ottawa. it is so painful for me, because i have had the experience of my grandparents work until they were 75, living in 600 square feet, wondering how they were going to feed ourselves some nights. i have had that experience. i know that one day of delay is too much. i think that we could have been being in parliament now, coming up -- >> it is not an anecdote. >> i hear you. i see you, mr. o'toole. >> there are several parties on this platform the degree on guaranteed livable income and universal health care and childcare. >> my policy -- >> thank you. mr. o'toole? that amounts to a dollar per

hour raise for working families. these are people working very hard, and i respect whether they get up to work a shift in restaurant or work to open their small business. we are going to have your back. we are also going to get costs on. we're the only party with a recovery plan that includes all canadians. mr. trudeau talked about it earlier, all of the commitments continue to be a priority. he is going to get to the calls to action, he is going to have transparency, he is going to make targets. he announces things and never delivers. the prime minister has to deliver on the words. >> not true. >> not just a plan to get there. >> mr. o'toole, i will not take lessons from you on promises and -- and not following up. >> all right, mr. trudeau, we are out of time now.

>> can i answer the question directly? >> you have five seconds, sir. >> we were able to lift a million people out of poverty at the same time with the right over the past five years. >> i am sorry, sir. i have to wrap you there. it is time for our next team on covid recovery. thank you so much. ♪ >> ok, from saskatchewan. he is standing by. he is an undecided voter and he wants to hear from you about covid recovery. ethan, go ahead. >> hey, good evening, leaders. my question is this. coming out of this pandemic, how you, if elected as prime minister, going to unify and drive canada forward with respect to health care, jobs, the economy, and ensuring a higher quality of life is

available for all canadians regardless of race, color, creed, or sexual orientation. -- orientation? >> you have heard from him. you are up first. >> thank you. that is why i launched canada's recovery plan on the first in the campaign. we are going to clean up that we miss. we are going to have national leadership on mental health. we are going to get finances under control. i want to get people working, give families a break. since the moment i became conservative leader, i've been reaching out, whatever your background, faith, color, sexual orientation, indigenous, a new canadian, you are important to canada's recovery. you are important to the conservative party. i ask you to look at canada's recovery plan after these 18 months. we need to plan and a leader that will actually deliver. >> thank you. ms. paul? >> i swear that i did not line

up that question. he is not a ringer. this comes to the heart of the matter, which again is about changing the culture of politics in ottawa. we have heard from outgoing mps in the last parliament how incredibly important that is that the culture has become toxic, that it has become hyper partisan. there used to be a time, i worked as an intern in a nonpartisan way in the internal legislature. you would make a fuss, then you would get to work across party lines and committees to find the solutions tell people in canada. we need partnership and more diverse voices so we can get access to the best ideas and more cooperative and collaborative way. >> mr. singh? >> thank you for your question. it touched on the number of things. health care is near and dear to my heart. we've seen in this pandemic that our health and is not been there. it is not because the pandemic, a lot of these problems are from before.

so our commitment is to invest in our health care system, unlike others, who believe in private care. we want to get out profit, get out the greed from long-term care. we want to invest in pharma care for all, not promise it in 2019 and have zero dollars to commit towards it. we want you to have access to medication, improved delta care dental care and mental health services. we want to make sure the billionaires are paying their fair share. >> thank you. mr. trudeau? once we get out of this pandemic, and yes, we have plans that are more ambitious on climate change and making sure people get good jobs, but we have to get out of the pandemic first. and that is why the unequivocal leadership that we have shown is as a government on making sure that everyone gets vaccinated is what is going to get us through. we cannot rebuild the economy until we get through this pandemic.

and unfortunately, mr. o'toole says he wants to get all of canada vaccinated to 90% in the coming two months, cannot even convince his own candidates to get vaccinated to 90%. we have to get through this, we are unequivocal -- >> thank you. mr. blanchet? >> he forgot the first part of the question. health care is the purview of the provinces and quebec. those are where we should have the resources to do that. the promises of the conservatives is 3.5% increase a year for the first three years, which is very far from what the provinces asked for and what the provinces asked for is not in the program of mr. trudeau. so it will be hard to be

efficient if those who are responsible for health care to not have the resources which are owed to them. >> thank you. thank you for your question. have a good night. i going to let you go. it is now time, miss paul, and mr. singh to go face-to-face, starting with ms. paul, and i want to talk about canada's parallel pandemic, the opioid crisis. since it has taken hold, more than 20,000 canadians have died, often in the shadows. this is an insidious killer that is tearing families apart. to both of you, starting with ms. paul, does the political will exist to confront it? we called many times during the last session of parliament across party lines for us to first recognize that this was a national health emergency, then to decriminalize simple possession. we know we need to end the stigma and create a national

safe supply program. we asked every party to do it, because 17 lives on average lost every day. we did not hear anything from anyone. it comes back to mr. herman's question about unity. can we not unify on something like this, where it is clear what we need to do? if we cannot do that, none of these other things are possible. >> we definitely need to respond to this crisis with everything we have. we've long called for it to be declared a national public health emergency. and what we know is the approach that has been taken for decades simply does not work. the approach of arresting someone, putting them through the criminal justice system, putting them in jail, does not make the community safer and does not help people. so we have been saying, i believe firmly, we need to provide health care responses to people dealing with addiction. we need to be doing everything we can to secure a safe supply. we need to look at the evidence. we need to say clearly that if

there is a step we can take that can save lives, take it. [voices overlapping] >> that is the question. is there the political will? there doesn't seem to be. we wanted it before parliament dissolved, and here we are, and lives will be lost. >> all right, ms. paul, i have to wrap you there. it is good to hear, mr. singh. it is coming from you. starting with you. during the pandemic, canadians watched in horror the suffering of their most vulnerable and frail loved ones in long-term care. what if tomorrow you had to place a family member in a long-term care facility, would you do it? beginning with you mr. trudeau? >> tomorrow is my mother's 73rd birthday.

that is something we are reflecting on. she is doing wonderfully right now. we will not have to make that decision. the reality is we have heard from seniors across the country who've been tremendously worried through the pandemic. and family members worried about that. we know the conditions of work for people in those long-term care homes are often dictating the conditions of care for seniors, which is why we propose to hire 50,000 new personal support workers working with the provinces, with the money for that. also, increasing the minimum salary to $25 per for people who hour care for our elders and most vulnerable. so if you had to put mom and in long-term care, you would do it? >> yes i would make sure they were properly cared. we will work with the provinces to deliver that. >> thank you. mr. o'toole? >> this is where we need partnerships for long-term care.

we are going to have a $3 billion fund that the provinces can draw on for infrastructure upgrades to long-term care. that is in addition to our record, almost $60 billion commitment over 10 years to the public health care system. universal access with no conditions. we would need to partner with provinces, not create lights. and long-term care learning from the gas in the first part of the pandemic is something we need. >> would you put a loved one in long-term care? >> i have a grandmother in one. we have been in touch with her. i have to touch on what mr. trudeau said, we have to get through the pandemic first. why did you not have the approach to the election, mr. trudeau? we are in the fourth wave, everything relates to getting out of the pandemic. >> it is enough. the debate is almost over. some dads and some moms don't have to worry. they have the money, of course.

some do. and in order to give them the care they need, the care they deserve, those responsible for those cares, provinces and quebec should have, without conditions, because it is their responsibility, expertise, resources required. when the army came in quebec, what did they say? they did not say quebec has not done enough to take care of its seniors, they said they lacked resources. they lacked the money. >> thank you thank you, mr. blanchet. we are running out of time. mr. trudeau, i'm sorry, you've had the most time tonight. we are moving on to our final journalist of the night. i am welcoming him from ctv news. he will be putting questions to you on covid recovery, starting with mr. singh.

>> hi, good to see all of you. mr. singh, i will start with you. your pandemic recovery plan is without cost. you have no plan to balance the books. you plan to take your expensive promises by taxing the super and corporations. what specifically would you do to create the one million jobs you are promising and make sure canada stays competitive? >> we have the only credible plan that is not going to cut health for canadians, not going to put the burden back on the ones who struggle. where the only ones in this debate table that can state clearly we would tax the billionaires, make sure companies like amazon start paying their fair share so we can invest in those new jobs, invest in people. mr. trudeau and mr. o'toole, they are going to put the burden back on you. mr. trudeau has already start by

cutting it. >> what specifically? >> by making sure we invest in pharma care, dental care, retrofitting homes and buildings. we are going to lower the cost of living, how people save money, but also create jobs by investing in the utrecht economy of the future. >> mr. trudeau, to you. several months ago you released a budget that was billed as a covid plan that has $100 billion of new spending. now you have a new plan that $78 billion of new spending, essentially rendering your last budget out of date. how do canadians trust this new massive spending promises and what you say to the next generation saying, how are we going to pay for this? >> i made a promise to the people during the pandemic that i would have their back, talking directly to canadians, i told them i would be there for you. that is what we have done. more than just being there for people because we are nice, though we are, it was because

that is the best way to ensure a strong recovery. now, yes, our shows her ambition , including a $10 a day childcare mr. o'toole is planning on ripping up. it also shows a responsible fiscal actions, more ambitious on the fight against climate change. the debt of our country as a portion of gdp -- >> yes or no? is it important to have a plaintiff balance the budget? >> that is what we are doing. >> ms. paul, you have not been clear if you support the need for vaccine passports or mandatory vaccines for federal workers or your own candidates. given that the fourth wave is really a pandemic of the them unvaccinated and threatens to overwhelm many health-care systems, how do you justify not

supporting the measures that have proven to be most effective at increasing vaccination rates? >> we just filmed a video today, asking everyone to get vaccinated. we've been unequivocal and our support for vaccinations. >> mandatory vaccination? >> yes, again, this is where policy gets put aside for partisan advantage. because there is everyone on this stage understands that everyone who can be vaccinated should be vaccinated. we need to encourage people to do it. vaccine save lives. and every single person on this stage has also said that there are going to be people who are not able to get vaccinated for certain reasons and we have to reasonably accommodate them. we will always be guided by the science. we will never put partisan concerns i had of public health. >> mr. o'toole, you promised a $60 billion increase in health care transfers of the next 10 years.

according to the independent parliamentary budget officer, it is only a transfer of $3.6 billion for the next five years, which is not different than the status quo, but you also support private public synergy in your words. can you specify what kinds of private health care innovations you want to see more of? and, if a province introduces private health care, would you enforce something to get back funding? >> i support our public and universal system. and after covid-19, we need to rebuild it. so we have the most stands of planned to do that, 6% increase per year, stable, predictable, without conditions funding to partner with our provinces. we will respect them running and putting priority to get wait times down, get more choice for universal public access. that is what we need. on top of that, we have a

substantial commitment in mental health and treatment for addiction. the provinces are in charge of their system. we will respect that. public and universal elements need to be at the core of our system, and our investments will get relief to frontlines like our nurses and physicians. >> we have to wrap you, mr. o'toole? >> quebec has relied on the federal government. as you mentioned, the canadian armed forces came into save people. some believe this crisis has undermined your fundamental argument of separatism. given that, if the federal government it's a billion dollars for long-term care homes, which quebec failed to protect, why should they not also enforce national standards? >> i have heard from all those

radiant people all over canada, what canadians can do that a person from beck cannot do. and what weight soever would a canadian norm that any better than a québec norm. i don't see that. i don't feel i am any lesser person than a canadian. so i am, again, national norms are standards. i would say that no one is to be entirely trusted in his group of people. some are worse than others. i think they recognize themselves. that even those that are less terrible, they need something, because they are vital to majority government. if quebecers want, i will lead. >> ok. this is the open debate section. i will start with you, but everyone jump in. not all at once. the pandemic recovery is about the future of canada.

all of the leaders here tonight have made promises that require historic levels of spending but as you all know, politics is about hard choices. some canadians are still in need of support, others are experiencing labor shortages. what specific programs will stay , and what will go in the next year, and who will pay for all of this? >> that is a great question. we did not see the government adapt to the changing crisis. what we supported, we all work together, the wage subsidy needed to be adopted as there were labor shortages in quebec. as we cannot find enough people for restaurants and service industries. we need to target a highly impacted sector. that is what canada's recovery plan does. we get those services, tourism, restaurants, back on their feet, get people working, keeping cases low, then we can wind down the other programs, because we need to focus on work.

we have a job booze that will incentivize the hiring of people. >> let him in. >> they are jumping over each other to talk about it. i'm not going to do that. people who need as much as they can. we are the only party clearly that is going to say to you, you will not have to pay more. we are not going to cut any programs. we will ask -- hold on a second. >> hold on. hold on. i would like you to respond to that. this is the time that mr. singh has said we are the only party. just us. hold on. you know -- ok, sure, so yes, ok. thank you. thank you. >> he continues to pretend that

it makes no difference whether there is a progressive government or conservative government. we know it makes a huge difference to families whether they have $10 a day childcare, whether they have a government that has their backs, that is has a plan to move beyond the targets on climate change. many feel that it makes note difference who forms government. >> mr. blanchet? you have not been in yet. >> wage >> did any of you refund the wage subsidy you try to receive? there is an important issue, labor shortage. their promising jobs, they should be promising workers. that raises the question of productivity. this is the most important issue

and some program should be turned toward that issue. >> in this pandemic election, he said he doesn't worry about monetary policy and inflation. now he says he doesn't ever intend balance the budget. he is spending $424 million per day. the question is what programs will state? to get the country working again. >> last-minute. ms. paul, five seconds. >> we have got to remember the pandemic is not over and people still need the benefits. they should be there until the pandemic is over. you can see there is a lot of work left to do. we need to get back to doing it. >> we demanded 20 times for mr.

trudeau to expand sick leave. 22 times over 18 months we demanded an extension and mr. trudeau said no to you and your family. >> 10 days of paid sick leave. this is important. you have seen tonight the extreme differences between the perspective parties. wendy canadians to make the right -- >> we are out of time. leaders, thank you for your dissipation tonight. that is it for the english language leaders debate. voting day is september 20. get your ballots. make sure you are registered. i want to thank the crew, the producers, everyone who made this happen.

good night. ♪ >> this year marks the 20th anniversary of september 11 attacks. minus live coverage from new york, the pentagon, and shanks the, pennsylvania starting at 7:00 a.m. eastern saturday on c-span. watch online on c-span.org or listen on the c-span radio app. >> the u.s. senate returns from a summer break on monday for a debate on president biden's nominations as well as -- the senate gavels in at 3:00 p.m. eastern. the house remains in a work. later in the month, members are expected to vote on government

funding legislation. live coverage on c-span and you can watch the senate on c-span two. or listen with the free c-span radio app. >> over the past few months, c-span spoke with over 40 members of the u.s. house together a recollections of september 11, 2001. coming up, we hear from jim himes and others. this is about 10 minutes. >> 20 years ago, on september 11, i was on the way to work in lower manhattan. i was on the subway as i did every morning and the subway came to a halt. this was right before 9:00.