>> welcome to appalachia school of law.

he will come to you -- we welcome you to our campus. to provide opportunities for its students to realize their dreams of practicing law and bettering their communities. it is our privilege to provide a forum in which the marketplace of ideas may process -- flourish. a discussion of society's foundational pillars, self-governance, and the rule of law. thank you and our candidates for engaging in this important democratic exercise. >> live from the campus of the appalachian school of law in grundy, virginia, the 2021 debate for governor sponsored by the appalachian school of law in virginia association of broadcasters. ♪

susan: welcome. i'm susan page of usa today. it is my honor to moderate this important event, the first debate in this year's gubernatorial contest in virginia. we are joined by the two major candidates to be the next governor of the commonwealth. former governor terry mcauliffe, the democratic nominee, and business executive glenn youngkin, the republican nominee. thank you for being here, gentlemen. joining me are candace burns, anchor at w tvr, cbs six news in richland, and dr. bob holdsworth, founding director of the center for public policy and the wilder school of government on public affairs at virginia commonwealth university. the three of us will pose questions following rules negotiated by the two campaigns on the appalachian goon of law. these are time limits the candidates agreed to honor -- 60 seconds for a candidate to

respond to a question, then 60 seconds for the other candidate to respond to the same question or a related one posed by a panelist. then, 30 seconds for a follow-up by the first candidate. at that point, the panelists may choose to ask follow-up questions. later, candidates will have five minutes to ask each other questions. and at the end of the debate, they will make closing statements. we know both candidates feel passionately about their positions. and it can be hard to keep track of the time. we are here to help. there are timekeepers with cards facing the candidates. a green card means you have 30 seconds to speak. a yellow card means 10 seconds. a red card means time is up. thank you in advance for honoring the rules you agreed to. we want a debate that is simple, fair and most of all that is

helpful to the voters of virginia as they make up their minds which candidate to support . with that, the first question. as a result of a coin toss, we start with mr. youngkin. more than 12,000 people in virginia have died of covid-19 ad more than 800,000 have been diagnosed with the virus. after progress, the delta variant made things worse. president biden ordered sweeping new vaccination requirements affecting federal employees, private companies with 100 or more employees and others. most republican governors vowed to challenge the constitutionality of his action. as governor, would you challenge biden's mandates in court and would you urge companies in virginia to comply with or to defy the president's mandates affecting their workers >> 60 seconds -- workers?

60 seconds. mr. youngkin: thank you, susan. let me start with my position on vaccines. i have been a strong advocate for everyone to get the vaccine. i do believe individuals should be allowed to make that decision on their own. that is why i launched a public service announcement to encourage people to get the vaccine. right now, we face a real difference between my opponent and me although just five weeks ago, he was in my same position, encouraging businesses to make their own decision. but he changed that position when it became politically expedient. what we need to do is make sure everyone in virginia understands that getting the vaccine is the most important thing we can do. that is why i invited terry to do a psa with me, so we could encourage all virginians to get the vaccine. when i am leading virginia, we are going to make sure virginians understand the best

way to keep themselves healthy, provide the best information and -- susan: time is up. would you challenge the constitutionality of the biden mandate in court? mr. youngkin: i don't believe president biden has the authority. susan: is that a yes? youngkin i don't believe he has the authority -- mr. youngkin: i don't believe he has the authority to do so. susan: mr. mcauliffe, you set a goal of every child in virginia vaccinated but said you would leave it up to school districts are required. virginia already requires students to have 11 vaccinations of various ages to attend school. covid is a more dangerous health threat to them today than polio or other diseases so my question is, should the state add covid to the list? that is to get a covid shot?

mr. mcauliffe: i have been very upfront about people getting vaccinations. i called for employers to mandate them for employees. i called forever one who works in a hospital to get vaccinated. i called for every individual who works at a long-term care facility or nursing home, everybody who works in k-12, everybody who attends higher ed. i have been strong on this from day one and glenn and i differ. his anti-thaksin rhetoric out there, he told college students, if you don't want the vaccine, just fill out an exemption. that is life-threatening and disqualifying as governor. he doesn't believe in forcing people to understand what kobe is going to do to this state and country. it is raging across the country. right here in this county, all icu beds are full. so, i am for requiring mandated vaccinations. he is not.

he likes to do psa's. psa's are not going to get you anything. i want everybody to be vaccinated in the commonwealth of virginia. susan: would you add covid to the list of required vaccines for students? mr. mcauliffe: the fda has not done the analysis under 12, so we couldn't do that. but i want everybody to be vaccinated. susan: for students over age 12, would you support adding the vaccine? ? for covid mr. mcauliffe: absolutely. -- adding the vaccine for covid? mr. mcauliffe: absolutely. covid is not going away. we hear stories it is going to be here for another 18 months. i am doing leadership. susan: mr. youngkin, 30 seconds to respond. mr. youngkin: what you are going to hear from my opponent's lies and excuses and radical positions -- from my opponent is lies and excuses and radical positions. he has told a lot of lies. he just told the biggest one.

my vaccine position is clear. i encourage all virginians to get the vaccine. and we will go to work together to make sure you have all the information you need. my opponent says he wants to make life difficult for people who don't get the vaccine. virginia has suffered enough. susan: mr. mcauliffe, 30 seconds to respond. mr. mcauliffe: is not requiring vaccinations. that is the difference. asking to do a psa is a political stunt. a political stunt. this is a tough job being governor. your job is to keep oaks safe. he is denying he told college students to fill out an exemption? my campaign will release the tape right now as we speak. he is telling college students, if you don't want to get it, don't get it, do an exemption for whatever reason. that is disqualifying to be governor. susan: time is up. mr. mcauliffe: can i have 15 seconds more -- mr. youngkin: can i have 30

seconds? i am not antibacterial he appointed a woman to the george mason board who is anti-that accent the only reason is because you gave him hundreds of thousands of dollars for his campaign. his position flip-flops based on who is paying him and i support the vaccine. i stand for the vaccine. susan: time is up. next question. 15 seconds to respond, mr. mcauliffe. mr. mcauliffe: who cares about a psa? after people don't know who you are on tv. i am for mandating vaccinations for people who teach our children in school, for children who go to higher ed, hospitals, nursing homes. susan: next question. candace burns will ask that. >> mr. mcauliffe, the pandemic revealed major problems in the virginia employment commission. the agency has been overwhelmed with claims.

newsrooms around the commonwealth are inundated with calls and emails, hearing from frustrated virginians in need of emergency benefits and they have been left in limbo with no explanation. the dec says it has cleared a backlog of appeals but thousands are still waiting for their cases to be reviewed. the agency faces a lawsuit. how can you ensure virginians the d.c. will be fixed and held accountable when another disaster occurs? mr. mcauliffe: i will make sure all our agencies work, as i did last time. i worked with a bipartisan legislature on transportation, veterans affairs, education, that is why so many republicans have endorsed me already. that we work together to fix transportation when we had a broken agency. we came up with smart staff, which became a model for the rest of the united states. i will invest time, resources, whatever we need if there was a problem before. when i came into government before, our economy was in

chaos. i created 200,000 new high-paying jobs. personal income went up 14%. i got thousands of people health care. i leaned in to lift up everyone's lives. my first goal would be to get everyone off unemployment but if those who need it, we are going to fix the agency. i did this in a bipartisan way. that is why so many publicans endorsed my candidacy for governor. mr. youngkin: what we have seen over the course of this pandemic is a failed rollout of the vaccine where virginia was ranked 50th in the rollout. we have seen the virginia employment commission, that is supposed to be there to support those virginians, one point 8 million, who had to file for unemployment benefits during this pandemic, who couldn't get claims processed. it took a supreme court ruling to get them to go to work. this is what you get when you put people into these jobs that have never run a business, never run anything in their life. i am going to work on day one.

we are going to make governor work -- government work for virginians and we are going to introduce the concept of customer service, not flawed process that processed $50 million of false claims uncoated process the ones that legitimate virginians who needed help could get. this is what a leader does, fixes problems and i am going to fix problems. susan: 30 seconds. mr. mcauliffe: i have a record of creating jobs. glenn youngkin was at the carlyle group before they threw him out. what did he do? they bought mobile homes and raise the rents. people had to make a decision, do i pay rent or buy the food? they bought nursing homes. the neglected seniors. people died including five-year in the commonwealth of virginia. i have a record of creating high-paying jobs. your record at carlyle's

outsourcing jobs to foreign countries. don't need that in the commonwealth. create jobs. personal income will go up as it did before. mr. youngkin: can i have 30 seconds? mr. mcauliffe is very comfortable telling lies. his concepts are bogus. he felt so good about the carlyle group that he invested millions of dollars of his money that bill clinton let him scrape off the money he was raising for the clinton foundation. thank you for the big endorsement. if you can trust me with your money come of the rest of virginia can trust me. mr. mcauliffe: ed wasn't you i trusted, because you lost it. it wasn't a good investment, let me tell you that. susan: thank you. i am sorry, your time has expired. these are not rules bob or

candace or i made up, these are rules your campaigns negotiated for this debate. [indiscernible conversation] >> we are in a region of virginia this evening that has not shared in the commonwealth's despair to, so i would like to ask about coal, climate change and revitalizing the economy. governor northam signed the clean economy act mandating zero carbon emissions by 2050, a goal your opponent would move to 2035. would you if governor have signed clean economy act? and can you explain in specific terms how your plans for the southwest virginia economic recovery would differ from governors north them and mcauliffe? mr. youngkin: thank you.

i am humbled to be here. because in this part of virginia, we have seen a dramatic lack of participation and support from richmond. last week, i was in hurley, visiting with those terribly unfortunate people who lost their homes. there was even a death. richmond has to go to work for southwest virginia and has not done it so far. there are incredible opportunities to grow the economy, to invest in new jobs. we haven't seen richmond deliver. we should be a hub for logistics. we must invest in infrastructure, broadband, across southwest virginia. the coalfield expressway has to be completed so that we can become a center of commerce. we have to go to work and not just give empty promises and that is what i'm going to do as

governor, go to work for southwest virginia. >> can i ask one part of the question again -- would you sign the clean economy act if governor? mr. youngkin: no, i wouldn't have. we can cycle bringing down emissions in virginia without a plan that not even executives at the utilities believe is doable. it is going to increase virginians' bills up to $1000 a year. it puts our energy grid at risk, all for some political purpose. susan: thank you. mr. youngkin: i believe in all energy sources, wind and solar, natural gas. we can in fact have a reliable energy grid. >> mr. mcauliffe? mr. mcauliffe: yes, of course i would sign it. if you look at my plan, i am calling for clean energy by 2035. when i think of clean energy, i think of jobs. thousands and thousands of new jobs is what i think of when i

think of clean energy. that is our future. when i was governor, i signed the first offshore federal release for wind turbines and we have turbines right now 27 miles off virginia beach lighting up 3000 homes. we have permits in front of the boe, and when they get approved in three years, we will have 200,000 turbines out there. right now a lot of them are manufactured in europe and are brought by ship to be assembled. forget that. i want them all assembled here. we can pick the biggest in the united states. those jobs will be throughout the entire commonwealth, welders, electricians, everything. we can become the hub and will be the hub when i am governor. i believe in clean energy. when trump pulled his out of the paris climate agreement -- susan: thank you. >> 30 seconds. mr. youngkin: we see challenges

getting to the goals set in the original virginia clean economy act. my opponent wants to accelerate them and destabilize our energy grid. we have seen what happens in california when you don't have a reliable energy grid. if you like what you heard from my opponent, get ready for blackouts and brownouts. we should embrace all energy weighing -- all energy sources, yes wind and solar, but we can't dismantle our energy. susan: virginia landau bans abortions in the third trimester of pregnancy unless three doctors certify the pregnancy would likely kill the women or impair her health. critics say this puts an undue burden on those in rural areas, where doctors often are scarce. there has been a proposal to reduce the number of doctors required to one, and to change

the medical standard. here is my question -- if the virginia legislature passed that proposal, would you signed it into law? mr. mcauliffe: the issue is, in order for a woman to get an abortion in the third trimester, you have to have a primary doctor certify it and you have to have two other doctors. the problems in rural parts of the state is that there are not three doctors. that puts women in rural communities at a real disadvantage. if they came up with a solution, and the woman's life has to be in danger and it has to be certified. if you have a doctor who says the woman's life is in danger, i will support that. that is the difference. my opponent wants to ban abortion. he has said that. he got secretly caught on tape saying i will go on offense, go on offense to defund planned parenthood and ban abortions. but then he said, we are not going to tell voters because if f they find outcome of the

independents won't vote for me, but don't worry, i won't get squishy on you. i kept 16 clinics open when i was virginia commonwealth governor and if we allow this texas law, amazon, google, facebook, it is crippling to the virginia economy. susan: mr. youngkin, in recent years, eight states enacted bans on abortion after a fetal heartbeat can be detected come out about the sixth week of pregnancy. most have been blocked by the courts but this month, a texas bandit go into effect. the texas law includes controversial enforcement provisions. i'm not asking about those. here is my question. if the virginia legislature passed a fetal heartbeat and on abortion that included exceptions you support for rat, instead stand to preserve the life of the mother,

would you signed it into law? mr. youngkin: thank you. this is a sensitive and personal topic. i appreciate the fact that you would like to write legislation with me. the texas bill is the standard right now we are looking at. and i would not sign the texas bill today. as i said through this campaign, i am pro-life. i believe in exceptions in the case of rape and incensed and when the life of the mother is in jeopardy. the texas bill is unworkable and confusing. what we are not doing this evening is talking to my opponent about his extreme views my opponent doesn't want to talk about this topic because he called legislation that would enable abortion pay for with taxpayer money through and including birth, when a child is kept comfortable while a decision is made whether the child lives or dies, he called that commonsense legislation and said he would sign it. my opponent wants to be the

abortion governor. i want to be the jobs governor. susan: time is up. you said you wouldn't sign a texas law, but i am not asking about a texas law. i am asking about a law that bans abortion when a fetal heartbeat can be detected, and a law that includes exceptions you support for rape, insistent to preserve the life of the mother. would you signed that law? mr. youngkin: we could sit down and write legislation together. i believe a pain threshold bill would be appropriate. i hope you will ask my opponent what objections he has two where abortion should be stopped, so we can all understand. susan: mr. mcauliffe, 30 seconds. mr. mcauliffe: are you satisfied with that answer? susan: that is the answer i am going to get. mr. mcauliffe: i will say this to every woman watching -- i will protect your rights. a woman ought to make a decision about her own reproductive

rights. i will support those. and i was a brick wall while i was governor. i vetoed all the bills that he would have proposed, to ban abortion and defund planned parenthood. i support laws we have on the books today. i am terrified today about what has happened with the trump supreme court. i am terrified they will grow back -- will rollback roe v. wade. i would like to see us enshrining roe v. wade in the virginia constitution. mr. youngkin: my opponent is comfortable not letting truth get in the way. this week, the washington post gave him more pinocchio's in his characterization of my position. i am pro-life. i believe in exceptions for rape and intestine when the mother's life is at risk. my opponent is the most extreme pro-abortion candidate today and

is marketing virginia as a place to get an abortion. susan: time is up. mr. mcauliffe: i will be the jobs governor. i support a woman's right to make her own decision through a second trimester. that is what i support. 80% of virginians agree with what i just said. they do not agree with glenn youngkin, who got caught secretly on tape saying he would ban abortions and defund planned parenthood. i will go on offense for jobs. susan: time is up. at this point, the candidates have a chance to ask each other questions. each is 15 seconds to ask a question. then, the other candidate has 60 seconds to respond. as a result of a coin toss, mr. mcauliffe will ask first. mr. mcauliffe: i was in a cancer facility the other day, patients are on chemo, getting radiation,

they are immuno compromised. you believe the nurse who was there treating that immuno compromised cancer patient should the required to be vaccinated, not a psa, a requirement? mr. youngkin: yeah. i think that nurse should fully understand getting a vaccination is the best way to protect her health and those around her. what has happened in our hospital system, i have spoken with heads of hospitals all over virginia, and they have fought the spread of covid with policies, procedures, with testing, not with mandates. and here we go, my opponent once a mandate. i respect your ability to make decisions because that's what leaders do. if you disagree with terry mcauliffe, like he set on tv, he is going to make your life difficult. he wants to make virginians' life difficult right now would we need to come together and work together through this

pandemic in the last thing we need is a governor who is going to go to work to make everyone's life difficult. susan: you have 15 seconds to pose a question to mr. mcauliffe. mr. youngkin: you appointed adrian bennett chair of your parole board. an inspector general report said they violated state law and she wrote emails saying wave your wand to power, cut them loose. if you could do it again, would you a pointer? -- would you appoint her? mr. mcauliffe: if anyone is in any position i did something inappropriate, people would be removed. i haven't been governor for four years, as you know. i tried to lift everybody up. when i was the governor of the commonwealth, i had the lowest recidivism rate of any state in america. i also have the lowest crime rate of any state. if something went wrong, i would fix it.

that is what i always did in every agency that we had. and that is the difference between you and me. your economic plans would run virginia into a ditch. three independent studies have just come out, you would cut $10 billion from education and 43,000 teachers would lose their jobs. that is not how you lift up virginia. use of the most important issue is election integrity. those are your words. i don't think that is the most important issue that is trump crazy 2020 stuff. most important is job creation and that is what i am going to work on. susan: thank you. 92nd break, then more questions for terry mcauliffe and glenn -- 90-second break, then more questions for terry mcauliffe and glenn youngkin. ♪ susan: welcome back to the first

debate in the virginia gubernatorial campaign. we are at the appalachian school of law in grundy, joined by republican nominee glenn youngkin and democratic nominee terry mcauliffe. i am candace page. the moderators and i will be asking another round of questions, let's go to candace burns. >> after george floyd's murder, widespread demonstrations call for police reform and transparency. both of you promised to bring people together and keep virginia safe. that requires trust and accountability. in march, law enforcement officials across the country and the law enforcement action partnership wrote a letter to congress calling for an end to qualified immunity for police officers. they argue police need the trust of people they serve but they say people don't trust law enforcement because they do not believe police are held accountable. they point to the qualified immunity doctrine, a

controversial policy that protects officers accused of violating the constitution while on duty. mr. youngkin, you oppose all efforts to end qualified immunity in the commonwealth. what is your plan to maintain trust in communities where police serve? and how would you make certain that officers who violate civil rights are held accountable? mr. youngkin: thank you. virginia today is at a 20-year high in murder rates. my opponent is not surprised because when he was governor, the murder rate went up 43%. we see across law enforcement agencies in the commonwealth an absolute depletion of resources, manpower shortages, equipment shortages, funding problems. but we also have a morale problem. qualified immunity protects law law enforcement -- law

enforcement heroes from frivolous civil lawsuits. not dereliction of duty. and i have not met a single law-enforcement hero who does not want to root out bad police . but we will protect qualified immunity and my opponent will get rid of it. that is why 50 sheriffs endorse me. 50. an that is why my opponent only has four. that is because law enforcement trusts me to stand up for safe communities and invest the funds necessary to make sure virginia is safe again. susan: -- >> mr. mcauliffe would you end , qualified immunity? >> no. >> it is called qualified immunity for a reason. any officer who is acting in good faith should have the full protections of the commonwealth. you don't want them risking their lives and us not having their backs. if you have a law enforcement officer who breaks the law, that is where qualified immunity ends. that is why we call it qualified immunity. but i will always step up and protect our law enforcement because they are out there every day protecting us. when i was governor, i did

decompression -- i did the compression pay and got $14,000 for the sheriffs. i got a thousand net benefits, pay raises for law enforcement and the state police. i leaned in every day and guess what? that is why i am the only governor in our history to be an honorary sheriff. i was very proud the sheriffs association gave me that award. but the most important thing is when i was governor, we had the , lowest crime rate of any major state in the united states of america. not second, not third, the lowest. why? i invested, and lifted up and help law enforcement and brought committees together. >> thank you. you have 30 seconds. mr. youngkin: again where i , started, you will hear lies, excuses, and extreme policies. what my opponent has done and recounted on what he said when he was trying to get the nomination, is that he would reform or remove qualified immunity. that is why the law enforcement community does not trust him.

standing up for virginians is more than just rhetoric and political statements. it is about actions. and that is why the law enforcement communities trusts me. we are going to work together to invest in law enforcement, bring communities together and reestablish virginia as one of the safest places in america as , opposed to having four of the most deadliest cities today. mr. mcauliffe: i can speak to my record. we had the lowest crime rate in america. i got awards from the sheriffs association as well as the state police and others. i work very closely. and what i worry about is, if you look at his economic plan, the washington post wrote about it the other day it will defund , the police. his cuts will be so severe that $250 million will be cut from the sheriffs, and will be cut $130 million from law enforcement. that is what you will get. the washington post wrote that

just the other day. three independent analysis have come out on his plan, which is what -- which is that you are making a grave error. >> thank you. he will ask the next question. >> mr. mcauliffe your position , on the budget and taxes, they are starkly different from mr. youngkin's, which will have three days and robots along with new restrictions on the fiscal authority of local government in raising property taxes. can you explain what you are not proposing tax reductions, and exactly what stake in this election for the future of the commonwealth as voters choose between your competing ideas? mr. mcauliffe: first of all, as you know, the governor doesn't do property taxes. that is a local issue. but what i will do is build a booming economy as i did before. create a large amount of revenue, i left with a surplus. when i came into office, i had to call it a special session. i had to erase a $2.4 billion hole in our budget.

i ended up leaving a big surplus, growing the economy. if you look at glenn's plan, it butif you look at glenn's plan, it has been ridiculed, panned. the roanoke times said it would run our economy into the ditch. the washington post said it would run our economy into the ditch. his plan would take $10 billion out of education. it would cut 43,000 teacher right here. in this county 266 teachers , would be lost. 250 million dollars in cuts to our sheriffs, tower law enforcement. these are not my words. three independent reports have said this. he has all this big pie in the sky, his advisor is from donald trump, this guy stephen moore. and now they want to bring that to virginia. >> your time is up. thank you, mr. mccullough. mr. youngkin: so, you know, god made me with a big nose. but terry mcauliffe has racked up so many pinocchio's, that you

can't even fit in the building. everything he has said is categorically false. the studies he is claiming that have been written or not in my plan. if you read my plan, terry you , would know that. just yesterday, the jefferson institute came out with a scoring of your plan -- that it would cost virginians $8 billion. $5,500 per virginian. by the way, if terry mcauliffe is your next governor, get your checkbook out. he will have to raise taxes for you. my plan is to recognize that our economy stalled under his leadership. the states around us have blown by us. we need to bring down the cost of living because the liberals in richmond have been overtaxing virginians to the tune of $2.6 billion. they are going to do it again, that is your money, and terry mcauliffe thinks it is his money. mr. mcauliffe: first of all we , had a surplus this year. and that is because of the funds we got from the federal government do not think it is a , $14.3 billion. permanent.

you want to give that back in tax cuts. let me show you have virginia law works. you have to have a rainy day fund. it is not your money to give back. learn the law. it is my turn, excuse me. this is not a carlyle boardroom. what i would do and make sure to grow the economy is bring in jobs. that will create a huge economic surplus. >> i will give you a little bit of extra time because of the interruption, but your time is up. >> one quick question. would you support any law that weakened or appealed virginia's right to work law. mr. youngkin: absolutely not. and my opponent will. he looked at a camera and he said that when a bill comes to his desk he will sign it. , every union endorsed him and

he collected tens of millions of dollars from the unions for his campaigns. i am going to protect right to work because if we lose right to work, it is going to be the death knell for virginia business. my opponent will get rid of it. andmy opponent will get rid of it. >> final word on this? mr. mcauliffe: my opponent likes to bash the folks out there every day trying to make a living. i am trying to raise the minimum wage. glenn is against it. glenn has been hundreds of millions of dollars. he doesn't want to give some health care worker who has to clean bedpans all day, $15 an hour and give her benefits. there is a huge difference here. i want to help workers here. i am for paid sick days. i think it is unbelievable that someone with covid or serious illness has to go into work because they cannot afford not to go to work. susan: mr. youngkin former , president donald trump has endorsed your campaign and you

have embraced it. this month, he raise questions about the integrity of this election, as he has about his and others without evidence. he said, you know how they cheat in elections, virginia's governor election, you better watch it you have a close race , there but it is not close if they cheat. my question -- do you believe there has been significant fraud in previous virginia elections ? and do you agree with the former president that democrats may cheat in this one? mr. youngkin: this is a democracy issue we are talking about, not a republican or a democrat. my opponent, when bush beat gore, he stared into the screen and said they took the president from us. and he never acknowledged that president bush was legitimately elected president.

i have said over and over again that joe biden is our president. i wish he wasn't. i wish he had handled afghanistan better. when he campaigned with you, terry you embraced him. , i think we need to invest in our election system just like , florida did to the point where there election system is trusted by all voters. virginians deserve that. that is the kind of investment i will make when i am governor. i will invest in making sure voter rolls are updated. i will ask everyone to show up to vote with a photo id and virginians will trust our elections. susan: time is up. you did say you didn't think there would have been significant fraud in previous elections but do you agree with , donald trump that democrats may cheat in this one? yes or no. >> no. i think we will have a clean, fair election. susan: mr. mcauliffe to watch , your campaign ads, virginia voters might well think donald trump is on the ballot. when you had a chance in this

debate to ask mr. youngkin a question, you mentioned trump. as you have in many of your ads. why have so many of your paid ads and rhetoric mentioned trump in an election focused on the people of virginia, and an election that presumably should be focused on your own proposals for what you would do as governor? mr. mcauliffe: because my opponent is a trump wannabe. he has been endorsed by him three times. he has said i am honored to have his endorsement. he is quoted saying that so much of the reason why i am running is because of donald trump. that is his quote. so he is the one who has , inserted him here. and we know the damage he has done to this country. look at the damage he has done on vaccines. if he had taken this covid crisis seriously sooner, hundreds of thousands of americans would still be alive today thousands of virginians. , he is the one who considered them.

he said so much of the reason he is running is because of donald trump's. he is following all the policies. his economic advisor is donald trump's economic advisor. that is fair. we are past all of that. we had a great eight year run here. open and welcome to everyone. hundreds of thousands of new jobs. we moved forward. we made our state open and welcoming. we are not going back. and the last thing, he spent his campaign talking about election integrity. it is the only thing on his website. susan: thank you. i have the same follow-up question for each of you. mr. youngkin, you first. if the state certifies that you lost this election, even narrowly, will you pledge tonight to recognize terry mcauliffe as the legitimately-elected governor? mr. youngkin: absolutely. but i don't expect that to be the case. because what terry has done tonight is, once again, glossed

over his real record. over the last eight years, virginia has created 44,000 jobs, not hundreds of thousands of jobs. the states around us has created six to eight times that amount. that is the legacy you left for virginia. families are moving away faster than they are moving here because there are not the job opportunities they want. that is why my day-one game plan is to get virginia moving. susan: mr. mcauliffe, if the state certifies that you lost this election, even narrowly, will you pledge tonight to recognize glenn youngkin as the legitimately elected governor? mr. mcauliffe: absolutely. we are going to win. we had a great record. he talks about a day-one plan. his k-one plan will be to

unleash covid because he doesn't believe we should mandate vaccinations. i remind you that when i was leaving office in 2017, i was invited to his conference. he sat there, praised me and said how did you do it? governor, how did you trade those jobs? how did you make virginia the great state? those were his words at a conference in i don't know what 2017. has happened over the last four years, but he praised me. susan next question from candace : burns. >> right now school districts , are explored how to address race and gender in schools. mr. mcauliffe virginia passed a , law to better protect transgender and non-binary students. and the department of education issued expanded policies starting this year. but there has been backlash. in loudoun county, a teacher who disagreed with the rules should the school system and some , school boards have rejected or delayed adopting the states policies altogether after an outcry from parents. should school board members who are elected by voters be able to make their own policies without

facing penalties? mr. mcauliffe: i have always felt local school boards, they should be making their own decisions. i hate all this divisiveness going on today. i hate to see our children being demonized today. i really dislike it. i am talking about tilting this big, new economy like i did before. i can't do it without the best education system in the country. i remind everyone, we are the number-one state for business twice in the last two years. we are the number-one state in america for higher ed. those are facts. we are doing great. we gotta make sure we are taking it to the next level. i have a real plan, not one that is going to cut 43,000 teachers. $2 billion. i will raise pay above the national average for the first time ever. i promise every student in virginia, i will have rod bend to you within two years. i will make sure we diversify

our teacher base. but i want a school community that will love and respect one another. i worked in a bipartisan way with these republican legislators to make sure we were adding more k-12 courses, in a bipartisan way. >> thank you. mr. youngkin, critical race theory or crt is a term that has become controversial with school board meetings and causes confusion in terms of , definition. you have promised to ban it and in recent interviews, you said that critical race theory has moved into all schools in virginia, but you provided little proof for this claim. there is no statewide list of schools that teach it that would allow for an objective count. so how do you define critical race area? and can you explain how you would ensure equity and inclusion in schools? mr. youngkin: thank you for this important question. critical race theory is in our schools were quite a while. the first instance i can find

was actually during terry's time as governor, where the board of education ran a training session and, in fact, had a mod teaching critical race theory in the classroom. you go to the board of education website and one of the recommended books is the foundation of critical race theory in education. so to think it is not in our , schools is absolutely bogus. the problem with critical race theory is, it teaches our children to actually view everything through a lens of race in direct contravention to , those immortal words of dr. martin luther king, who asked us to judge one another based on the content of our character and not the color of our skin. he wants to lower standards in schools and press forward which would leave every child behind. >> your time is up. thank you.

mr. mcauliffe? mr. mcauliffe: his education plan would cut 43,000 teachers. mr. youngkin: that is not true. mr. mcauliffe: do your own independent analysis. he is talking about critical race theory. it is not taught in our schools. but i hate that this is a big dog whistle it divides. -- this is a big dog whistle. i hate it. it divides people. i am about bringing people together. we have a great k-12. we are ranked fourth. we gotta do up work. 50% of our schools are 50 years old. i was in bristol yesterday, and 80 --year-old school. we got a rebuild and rebuild. we got all this money from the federal government which he said was unnecessary. $13 billion for virginia, $3 billion for schools, that is a good thing. susan: your time is up. >> we are almost out of time. we want to ask one final question. mr. youngkin: i will go quickly.

mr. mcauliffe keeps mischaracterizing and lying about my education program. we will preside over the largest education budget in the history of the state. he doesn't like that fact and makes up his own. the problem is today -- susan: thank you. we want to make sure we save time for the closing statements. i want to ask a question, 30 seconds each. virginia is a state with a long and complicated history. last week, there were strong emotions when a statue of robert e. lee, president of the confederacy, was removed from a place of honor in richmond, on monument avenue. what went through your mind when you saw that statue come down. mr. mccullough? mr. mcauliffe: i was happy. they were signs of divisions and hate. when i was governor, i always tried to make this commonwealth and opening and welcoming place. i leaned in, i banned the

confederate flag from the virginia license plate. i do not want any symbols of racism or division. we will only be successful if we work together, join together, get people vaccinated, invest in education. but we will not recruit these jobs if we have somebody who is -- susan: thank you, mr. mcauliffe. what went through your mind when you saw the statue come down? mr. youngkin: what i thought was, the statement i heard from when he was governor was that those statues of robert e. lee should be left alone. i felt the supreme court's decision reflected the law locally, the decision was made to bring this statute down. that is why believe these decisions should be made. i think the statue should be in a museum or on a battlefield, so we do not airbrush our history. if you don't know our history, we are destined to repeat it. this is a way of bringing virginians together, allow a path forward as opposed to looking backwards. susan: thank you. we want to preserve time for these closing statements. i know they're going to be great.

each candidate will have two minutes to make a closing statement. as a result of a coin toss, mr. youngkin, you will go first. mr. youngkin: i want to thank my wife. thank you for making me better every day. jerry, i want to thank you for being here. my fellow virginians, we live in turbulent and challenging times. my opponent wants to paint over that reality with mistruths, excuses, and extreme positions. he wants to distract you from those issues that are most important to virginians today, as we come together to build a better day. how do we work and live through this pandemic? education for our kids? how do we make the committee safe again? my opponent is lying, but the numbers do not. today we are ranked 44th in the nation in job recovery. we have a 20-year murder rate, yet my amp and it embraces --

yet my opponent embraces radical groups who want to defund the police and close prisons. we watched our education system fail our children because of --. the cost of living is running away from us. virginians, you have a choice. do you want tired, old recycled policies from retired politicians or do you want a embrace someone new, a business leader who knows how to get things done? on day one, we will cut your cost-of-living by cutting taxes. we will reinvest in law enforcement. we will we invigorate our job market. we will create 400,000 jobs and foster 10,000 new startups. we are going to reestablish an expectation of excellence in our schools by investing in the largest education budget in the history of virginia, and we are going to make virginia's government work for us as opposed to telling us what to do. my fellow virginians, it is about leadership. tonight, i ask for your vote, i

ask you to partner with me to make virginia the best place in america to live and work and raise a family. moderator, thank you, mr. youngkin. mr. mcauliffe, you have two minutes. mr. mcauliffe: let me thank the appalachian school district for having us, and a thank you -- i thank you for having us. i have my wife here with me, i think her. 13 million more meals were served to children my last year in office and i thank her for that. covid is tough. when i was governor, i got to work, created 200,000 new jobs, personal income went up 14%. i did it in a bipartisan way. in a bipartisan way on transportation, education, job creation and other issues. we work together. i had 20 big plans. if you go to my website, 20 big

plans of what i would like to do. education, $20 billion investment. we have to pay teachers better than the national average. i want lower premiums, lower drug prices. as governor, i will get us a waiver and we will be able to bring premiums down. it is working together on these big issues why so many republicans have actually endorsed me. former delegates -- bill kristol, one of the most conservative writers in america. why? i have the experience, and that is what we need here in virginia. we got tough times ahead. we cannot go in with a candidate who is too extreme. he is ramp wannabe. -- he is a trump wannabe. he has been endorsed by donald trump three times. he said he was honored to have his endorsement. the issue we talked about was election integrity.

the big issue i am talking about our jobs, economic development, that is how you grow. he has gone as far as to say that so much of the reason i am running is because of donald trump. let me be clear to all of you in virginia, i am running for you. thank you very much and please vote. moderator: thank you both. that concludes this illuminating debate. our thanks to the appalachian school of law and to both of you. on behalf of candace, bob, and myself, our thanks to the voters for watching and voting. early voting begins tomorrow, and election day is november 2. good night. [applause] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ♪ ♪ >> tonight, on q&a, wall street

journal columnist and manhattan institute below jason riley on his book maverick, a biography of economist thomas so will -- thomas sowell, whose work has inspired libertarians for half a century. >> i don't think he is as well-known as he should be. it is unfortunate if not tragic that individuals like cornell west are better known than thomas sowell. i think he has written circles around those individuals, maybe all of them together, and it is not simply the volume of his work that is unmatched, but also the range in the depth and rigor of his thinking is something i don't think they come close to matching, so one of the reasons i wanted to write the book was

to introduce sowell to a younger generation. >> jason riley on his book maverick tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span's monday. you can also listen to the podcast. >> on monday, election night in canada with announcements of the result why but 9:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. you can watch live on c-span. or listen on the receipts. radio and. -- c-span.org or listen on the free c-span radio app. ♪