that would prevent a government shutdown on september 30. also considering the $768 billion defense programs and policy bill. later this week, a bill prohibiting states from enacting certain restrictions on abortion providers. when the house is back in session, you can find live coverage here on c-span. ♪ "washington journal" continues. host: maria wsachetti is with

the washington post. when you look at the images of the tens of thousands of migrants crossing from mexico into del rio, texas, many of them haitian, explained to our viewers what is happening there and is it because of the biden administration's immigration and border policy? guest: there are complex reasons people leave. migrants have told us they feel this administration had promised to be more compassionate to immigrants and they have allowed more families in. these haitian migrants that are arriving or people who fled the 2010 earth wake that's what i covered and as far as natural disasters, i have not seen such human devastation. they went to places like chile

and tried to make a go over there and now. they are on the move again no administration really has wanted this type of arrival. they don't want people crossing regularly at the. order obama didn't and bush before him didn't. the biden either. they are trying to make it into the united states where there's an established issue with american communities and many migrants are arriving and there are jobs for them. host: what did the biden administration do with the haitians that were already in the country this summer? what today tell them and was that the contriving factor to the haitians coming in now? guest: they extended temporary protection status because of the latest earthquake which was very

damaging but not as damaging as the one the migrants fled. the country is engulfed in political turmoil in the president was just assassinated. crime has been rising exponentially. there is a lot of danger there and essentially the biden administration says it was to dangerous to haitians for deportation but they are expelling haitians at the border as a way of discouraging others to come. host: you have haitians were in this country temporarily that escaped after the 2010 earth wake. -- earthquake. how many are there in this country? guest: the estimate was that about 50 5000 haitians had temporary protected status. there are more haitians than that in the u.s. the estimate has been the number would go up to about 155,000.

there are many people here who are eligible to apply for that now but they had to have arrived by around july, a certain date in july. the people arriving that were not eligible for that and that's an example of the contradiction in immigration policy under biden as it was under trump and presidents before him. people who cross the border illegally are a priority for deportation. most migrants crossing our neck or mentals but there is the possibility that they -- most migrants crossing are not criminals but there is the possibility that some are. host: what is the possibility for these people under the bridge and del rio, texas. what happens when they arrived at this camp? guest: they are on the mexican

side. under previous governments, once they set foot on u.s. soil, they should be able to apply for asylum and that's international law and those of the aclu would argue the biden administration is violating that and they are sending people home to places where they could face danger. that is something that is not supposed to happen. at the same time, there are smugglers who are selling migrants these trips and encouraging them to come and say you will get into the united states and that is a very dangerous trip. people drown and people die and that's not something the biden administration or any administration wants to see. it's a real challenge to govern right now. host: how does the deportation

process work for these folks who we are seeing? how does it work and who is getting deported? is anyone allowed to stay? guest: the government has always said they make exceptions for cases where people have expressed a fear, a legitimate fear, and they refer them to people who can assess that. this is something that happens behind closed doors. it's very difficult for the media to ever find out that the government has done that and there are real questions. there is an investigation right now about some border patrol immigrant's treatment. are the immigrants in danger here or when they get sent home to haiti? if someone is taken into custody

in the united states, you go to the house and pull a file and attend a hearing at supposed to be transparent but the system is not transparent so. we cannot find that out host: we heard from a viewer earlier that said unaccompanied minors of these groups we are seeing are allowed to stay. is that true? guest: most family units have been getting into the united states. pretty much all unaccompanied minors have been getting in and that something the biden administration has been doing since the beginning stuff it was something the trump administration had to do but earlier this year, the court gave the biden administration the choice and they declined to expel children who arrived by themselves. the biden administration has continued to expel family members. they have allowed most of them to get in so they are trying to

do it in an orderly fashion. what you are seeing at the border right now is they have not been able to do that host: host:. if you are a haitian family and you are crossing with children, are you going to be allowed to stay? guest: they have been expelling people. my understanding is that they have been expelling people but i am not out there on the border right now. host: on top of these images that folks are seeing, here in washington, democrats were told by the senate parliamentarian that you cannot include immigration plans and their 3.5 trillion dollar reconciliation bill. what to they want to do in this legislation? guest: they wanted to try to legalize as many as 8 million people. there were high hopes for this to happen and democrats have a

very slim majority in both houses and they believe this is the only way they can get it done. the last major amnesty was in 1986 and that was 35 years ago. it was 35 years before that when they pass that one. these kind of things can take a long time. to be included in the budget, it has to have a budgetary impact. that has to be the main point of including it in the budget. lawmakers argue that it did and how it can contribute to this country but the parliamentarian basically said it's a policy issue. she even expressed sympathy for immigrants in this situation. they are exploited at work and underpaid and they take dangerous jobs.

the immigrants haven't been able to see their families in a long time but they cannot leave the country be as they might not back in. it was a real challenge but this is the congress the people elected. the nation is divided and so they are not able to reach the full threshold. others say that democrats should be bold and they should use the power they have. the trump administration did some of the most extreme immigration policies. they started expelling people. the biden administration is cap those in place. many people feel this should have been the treatment immigrants should face under a different type of government in the future.

democrats are still trying but it's a very difficult place right now. host: martha, south carolina, go ahead. caller: i just have a statement. thanks for taking my call host what people need to realize is that with migration, mary and joseph had to travel from city to city and everybody needs to get together and help these people, thanks. host: what sort of help to these migrants need once they are in

-- on u.s. soil and waiting for the process to begin? are they getting food from the united states? guest: you can see from the photos the extreme conditions. the migrants had to cross back into mexico to get supplies and some of the -- or there is a vivid photo that shows the border patrol on horseback and families appear to be carrying takeout food. they are having to wade across the river into mexico to buy stuff some vendors are coming over and they are selling food. on the u.s. side of the river, they are in federal custody and it looks like the conditions

seen extreme. host: ruth in illinois, independent. caller: yes, the border patrol guys that thousands have been reported. the border patrol said 300 have been deported. they are not giving us the right information. yesterday, there was 14,000 haitians sitting underneath the bridge in del rio. i have a question -- i hear these people say that christians don't care. god says we are commanded to obey the laws of the land. we have laws in this land we have a way to come into america,

a legal way. these people are running drug cartels from 5000-15,000 to come into america. , illegally. guest: this is an important point. these trips are organized by smuggling organizations and selling immigrants the idea they can seek a better life in the united states. the condition is they have already fled. they have fled in earth way and tried to go to other countries where they may be facing racism or opportunity or covid outbreaks. they have been given this chance they think at a better life. you look at the refugee numbers,

it's 120 5000 which is a big and reese but there are. millions of refugees in the world . in some ways, the smugglers are able to create a solution for immigrants that they think could be immediate. instead, they are leading them to this very difficult situation. we are seeing families being expelled as well. my colleague had reported that some families said they were not being told that they were being deported back to haiti because they had not lived there for. a long time.

host: as you are talking about, they lead after 2010 and went to chile and brazil and they were able to get jobs they are but because of the pandemic, those jobs have vanished. now they are making the trip to the united states. explain asylum laws and do they apply here? guest: that's a complicated question because we don't know the reasons they fled haiti whether it was economic or suffering political persecution. asylum is very specific, you have to set foot on u.s. soil and fear persecution in your homeland based on various reasons such as your politics or your race or your religion. usually, lawyers sort this out on both sides, the government lawyer and if the immigrants can afford a lawyer.

they sorted out in immigration court or an asylum office. if someone fled haiti because they were being persecuted and they went to another country, there are sometimes these situations get really complicated and they may not while a i for asylum but may qualify for another form of humanitarian relief. host: here is another text. i read in the paper that some had jobs there and they sold everything they had and then made the trip to the united states from those countries. what have you found out in your

reporting? guest: it's been this way for a long time. it's not the poorest of the poor who night -- you migrate. you have to pay the smugglers. it's terribly dangerous to cross through mexico. we have reported that order of the border is under the jurisdiction of organized crime. some people borrow the money from their relatives and some people just sell everything they own. many do end up running out of money along the journey so that becomes a problem so it could be possible they are not able to get money where they are now. they were definitely able to get out of haiti. as someone who covers immigration inside the country, it's interesting that so many tried other countries first. so many haitians already live here.

people have done very well in florida or are in elected office and are all over the country. there are large numbers in massachusetts. host: jerry in tacoma, washington, democratic caller. caller: the lady was talking about the haitian religion. most haitians are christian. to the woman who is talking about that, i would ask her ww jd? it seems that haitians have been punished since the haitian revolution since they fought for their freedom and abolished slavery. i want to know specifically, does she think that america is still practicing a form of the whitening process really only

let in white immigrants and have a tendency not to add too many black immigrants? host: do you have any thoughts on that? guest: i think there are real concerns that racism is on the move again. they are also being attacked in mexico and that we are seeing these images on the air. i think there are real questions and concerns about the treatment of haitians. it's the first black republic,

haiti. there has been a lot of turmoil, and there was a lot of problems in the country in the 2010 earthquake was absolutely devastating. the homeland security secretary knows it very well. he was the homeland security -- he was in the government when it happened. he is someone who has worked with this committee do for a long time and he is really aware of the challenges. i think there is a lot of hard conversation going on. host: nelson in florida, republican. caller: i think the united states made a big mistake when it included asylum applications legal for problems of crime in

the country of origin. it used to be that it dealt only with the kind of government they had such as, i'm 72 so such as communism when i was growing up or radical islamic scenarios, this has created a big mess where a lot of people can claim asylum quite often for reasons that have already been stipulated which did not use be included. the united states also has a lot of crime. what if half the population of chicago picked up stakes and emigrated? i'm sorry what's happening in many of these countries but is the responsibility of those governments to deal with. those

problems, thank you guest: after covering the second earthquake recently, i was hearing that from haitian americans who went down to haiti to try to help the country and a lot of people have done well in the united states and they went there to try to help and rebuild the government and rebuild systems and they felt the leadership, that the country deserved better leadership. he obviously had this terrible situation with the reason assassination of the haitian leader but this is something that goes back years and people have wanted better leadership that they have also wanted greater cooperation from the government and recognition of the serious problems that the

country has had because of its treatment of other countries. -- by other countries. host: our viewers can hear questions of the homeland security sec. by lawmakers today. he will be testifying on capitol hill. they will testify on security threats to the united states, life sick -- live coverage begins at 9:30 a.m. eastern time3, online at www.c-span.org or listen on the free c-span radio app. eric, independent. caller: thank you for taking my call. my comment this morning, i am an immigrant myself. you can't understand how

disheartening it is when people try to take shortcuts and show up at the border. people don't understand that that affects those who are trying to come here legally. i blame this on the biden administration. you can say whatever you want to say but trump at the border under control. biden took the border as being complete chaos. something has to be done step we say everybody to get legalized in america. if you don't secure the order, you will have 30 billion emigrants showing up. that border needs to be secure, thank you very much. host: david in denver, colorado, democratic caller. caller: i've been listening all morning and i think it comes

down to this -- are we steve miller because by virtue of what we offer in comparison to the rest of the hemisphere and the haitians are a prime example starting off with brazil and moving to chile and migrating through central america to get here. there is going to be a pool that existed. stephen miller put everybody in mexico and people waited in mexico in squalor. host: i have to abruptly ended there and my apologies. you can follow the reporting at washington post.com >> we take you live to the house floor for debate on a short-term spending bill and work