confirmation for u.s. district judge for the district of columbia. on c-span3, the senate homeland security committee host a hearing on cyber security infrastructure threats in the u.s. that is at 10:15 eastern. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government, funded by these television companies and more, including charter communications. >> broadband is a force for power. that is why charter has invested aliens building infrastructure, upgrading technology, empowering opportunity in communities big and small. charter is connecting us. >> charter communications supports c-span as a public service, along with these other tillerson providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. -- television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> coming up this morning, the debt ceiling and immigration

with new york congressman and appropriations kitty -- committee member adriano espaillat and representative jason smith. then, doctors without borders on efforts to increase covid-19 vaccine supplies. "washington journal" is next. ♪ host: good morning, everyone. the national debt in this country stands at nearly $29 trillion. as the debate in washington simmers over whether or not to raise the debt limit, we will take another day with all of you this morning to let washington know what you think they should do. if you support raising the debt ceiling, dial in at (202) 748-8000. if you oppose, (202) 748-8001. text us with your thoughts, include your first name, city,

and state, (202) 748-8003. you can also join the conversation on facebook.com /c-span or post your comments on twitter, the handle @cspanwj. follow us on instagram as well. we will get your thoughts on whether or not use of or or oppose the debt ceiling. first, listen to the federal reserve chair jerome powell yesterday warning what would happen if the country were to default on debt. [video clip] >> it's important that it is raised in a timely fashion so the united states can pay bills when and as they come due. it's a critically important thing. a failure to do that is something that could result in severe reactions, severe damage to the economy and the financial markets and it's just not something we should contemplate. i'm not going to comment on particular tactics or things like that. i'm just going to say that i

think we can all agree that the united states should not default on any of its obligations and should pay them when they are due and that no one should assume that the fed or anyone else can protect the markets or the economy in the event of a failure, fully protected in the event of a failure to make sure that we do pay those debts when they are due. host: the federal reserve chair, yesterday. take a look at this headline from "the washington post." "default this fall will costs 6 million jobs and wipe out $15 trillion in wealth. mark sandy did this study. finding that a prolonged impasse over the debt ceiling will costs the u.s. economy up to 6 million jobs, wipe out 15 trillion in household health -- wealth, sending the unemployment rate surging.

do you support or oppose raising the debt ceiling? your opportunity to tell washington what you think they should do as they continue the debate. devon, philadelphia. you oppose. tell us why. >> i oppose just because we are in massive debt and you know, after a while the interest on the debt, that is all we will be paying, not down the principal. one of the things he just showed the video of, the national debt, but please also show the poverty page, the link that's on that same website, just to show the maximum amount of poverty. i have traveled all across this country. i have been to what, 39 states of the 50 and i tell you, it's just a massive poverty all over. it's, it's, it's sad.

host: our line producer found that for you, living in poverty. there is the number. without insurance. this is from the national debt clock. their website we show you at the top. douglas, staten island, do you support raising the debt ceiling? caller: good morning. how are you? host: what do you think? caller: i support it. this is an old republican playbook ploy. in power they raise the debt tremendously. i think it went up close to $8 trillion under trump. this is just paying for the bills, mind you, that they already past through congress, ok? now they are saying that they've raised all this, they don't want to pay for it. they do this each and every

time. in power, they spend like a drunken sailor, out of power they yell about my goodness, the whole thing about how it's going to costa the children so much. listen, we are the premier currency in the world. we are a world currency that is priced in oil dollars. ok? the only people -- the only way people can buy oil is by purchasing it through dollars and we can just print our way out of this. it's exactly what we have been doing and the debt really doesn't matter. host: is that a good idea, printing our way out of this? caller: i think so. at some point we have to have a jubilee. the market is a sham. if you look at the price to earnings ratio, it's based on nonsensical things. completely nonsensical things. there's no parity at all with

reality. people basically use algorithms. you had one company spending what, $73 million so they could knock off three nano seconds to get their algorithm pushing the prices up and down, up and down? the ceos, the cfos, they come in and they spend a couple of years there, they cash themselves out having raised the price of their stock. it just goes on merrily. it doesn't mean a thing. we print money and as long as we print money and other nations, they do, too, it will all go on forever and at some point, we will have a jubilee. host: florida, support, go ahead. caller: i'm for raising the debt ceiling because i'm for the united states of america. if you are anti-american and want the system to fail, you would vote against it. that's not my stance. host: ted, oregon, also support.

caller: i do support the expansion of the debt ceiling. if we don't, then all of a sudden federal workers are put on furlough and so on and so forth and i admire the man that just spoke before me. he's absolutely correct as far as the republicans. stacking debt on mike children and grandchildren? they will take a tax cut any day of the week. i tell you what, what a bunch of hypocrites. every republican i know is a write off king. they write off their shirts, underwear, fuel, i have had enough of it and i absolutely support, support, support these not heads up in washington that think they can do and do and do, but it's part of the process. host: let's listen to the

republican arguments. this is the leader of the republican senate, mission of -- mitch mcconnell in kentucky. [video clip] >> america must never default. the debt ceiling will need to be raised. we have a democratic president and a democratic house with a democratic tenant. they have decided to with the possible exception of infrastructure, all year long, operate on a partisan basis. a $1.9 trillion bill earlier this year that we all opposed were darned good reason. and this reckless tax and spending measure that could range from 3.5 trillion to 5 trillion. my advice to this democratic government, the president, the house and senate, don't play russian roulette with our economy, step up and raise the debt ceiling to cover all that

you have been engaged in all your long. no effort on their part to describe our position as you responsible makes any sense. the facts are indisputable. this is a totally democratic government, they have an obligation to raise the debt ceiling and they will do it. host: the republican leader, mitch mcconnell, yesterday, explaining why republicans in the senate are saying, as did the republicans in the house, they won't vote for increasing the debt ceiling. house democrats have tied the raising of the suspension of it, to a package that would keep the government funded through december at current spending levels. the politico headline this morning, democrats seek to avoid

a government shutdown at all costs as republicans pick a debt fight. they will do whatever they need to do to keep the government open, almost certainly involving starting negotiations with resistant republicans. let's listen to the majority leader, chuck schumer, democrat of new york. here he is, the leader on the floor yesterday. [video clip] >> yesterday evening the house approved a resolution that will keep the government open and provide emergency funding for afghan refugees and americans affected by natural disasters and suspend the debt ceiling through the end of 2022 and the bill now comes to the senate, where both parties must pass it together to steer the united states away from a number of fast approaching crises. absent congressional action, the government will shut down in just over a week.

the united states could face a first ever default soon after and it will be american families who suffer most. our republican colleagues say they don't want to shut down, don't want a credit default, that they want hurricane aid. then they should vote yes on the bill. want to avoid default? republican colleagues? vote yes. want to avoid shutdown? vote yes. want to provide hurricane aid? vote yes. want to help the afghan refugees? vote yes. that's the bill that will be on the floor. those who vote yes will vote to avoid default. to avoid a government shutdown. those who vote no will be saying we are ok with default and ok with government shutdown. to say do it another way? that doesn't cut it. this is what's on the floor,

this is what the house passed. the kind of sophist re-we have heard from the republican leader -- sophistry we have heard from the republican leader doesn't make sense. host: fairport, new york, you support increasing the debt ceiling. good morning to you. caller: good morning. yes, it just makes sense and i really support the previous callers for pointing out republican hypocrisy. one small example, trump, the president, decided that his adult children would get taxpayer-funded secret service protection six months after he left office. these are very wealthy individuals who could easily pay for it themselves. on top of that, he is jacking up his prices at his property to again stick it to american

taxpayers. yes, it's a very small slice of the overall financial picture, but these kinds of behaviors from trump really need to be highlighted so that we stop the gripped of the republicans. thank you. host: betty, spencer bill, did i say that right? good morning to you, you oppose raising the debt limit? caller: yes. countries like greece and other countries that have continued to pay fake paper and not have it supported? it devalues the dollar. if you continue to spend and reprint more money, more money to do this, it devalues the dollar. what happens to these countries? your dollar is worth less. we need to spend less. we need to do basic needs because we have no idea yet what

all of these immigrants coming in with all of these diseases that they haven't been immunized for could send them off. we don't know, yet, what the costs is. we need to stop the spending until we know. i'm a senior citizen. i do not want i care, dental care, hearing care. getting through medicare takes forever. you could go out and get it done yourself and do without something else a lot better. you want to do something? just increase normal. increase, keep the costs down. as long as you do this, it's just going to be inflation, inflation, inflation. we need to get this down host: host:. the senate is expected to vote on the proposal that passed in the house along partyline votes with no republicans in the house . the package keeps the government funded and raises the debt

ceiling by next week. this, according to the recent reuters headline. reaction from viewers online. here is a text from mike. why are republicans against raising the debt ceiling? this is about paying bills republican racked up. then you have the liver tony and, diane, saying weird, why do the republicans raise the debt ceiling consistently, why only when the democrats raise the debt ceiling it's bad? republicans having done it twice as much as the democrats, but when republicans do it it's ok? and that this debt doesn't matter and money is not gained through action from the rich, it accumulates and they continue to accumulate it. then you have this from hairy in pennsylvania, the debt ceiling issue could have been resolved

months ago and it would only take competent leadership in congress, responsible individuals don't wait until midnight to perform the necessary business of the day. denise in arkansas, what do you say? caller: over trump and his issues, take care of what is at hand. since schumer and the rest of the democrat want to shut down our government again, shut that government down and they go home without pay. shut them down and re-vote and get those asses back to the state they represent and get someone else in the office. host: ok. here is joni ernst of iowa on the senate floor yesterday, using the card game of uno to make a point about debt and

government spending. [video clip] let's put it in reverse -- >> let's put it in reverse and go in a different direction. instead of just throwing in the cards and going along with the democratic demand to borrow another penny, let's go through the budget line by line and determine what is a priority and what isn't. it's time to make washington start route living within a realistic budget, just like every other family in america is expected to do. and that may be a wild idea to the big spenders in d.c., but taxpayers know that is how to play your cards right. so, instead of picking up more debt, let's skip, let's skip! the spending that isn't needed

until we are sure washington isn't wasting a single dollar. who know uno! -- uno! with that, i yield the floor. host: you support the idea in butler, indiana. tell us why. caller: i have had the pleasure doing this a few time. you look beautiful in that green, it pops your eyes out, you look awesome, i'm the guy drinking the whiskey out here in the bunker. [laughter] life, it's like groundhog's day, as you get older. everything repeats itself. they change the name a bit, different uniform, different cliche, same old same old. when you are in debt and you have credit cards that are just about maxed out and you realize

you are never going to pay them back? you just ring them up. the democrats and the republicans have no intention of paying the debt back and there has to be a reset in this country. since the titanic is sinking, make your march, play the piano, let's go speed the process up. instead of trillions and billions, let's go with the gazillions. we can have large pieces of monopoly money and you get a new car. let's just do that, ridiculous, since we are never paying it back and we need a complete reset in this country. host: what do you think a reset would look like? what does the government need to do? spending, taxes, what is it? caller: it's everything. everyone has lost their marbles. they play pretend. every american citizen for years and years had to live within a

budget. remember that? you had rent, car insurance, there was a budget. you only had $40 left. then came credit cards and loans and the government with "stimulus" giving free money out. the whole thing is going to collapse. what's going to happen is we are going to turn into venezuela. open borders, millions of people pouring across, everything is free until the bubble finally busts, after it busts the people will be starving, anarchy, but then the real patriots who love the constitution will grab their weapons and start over. you have people in this country who believe that there is such a thing as free stuff, free medical, free college, nothing is free and as soon as the government gives you free stuff, shackles go around your neck. host: so you support it?

caller: let's get it done, go stupid. do whatever you want to do. trillions, no more. you look gorgeous, greta. host: thank you. trump, the hill, to the republicans, foolish not to use debt ceiling in negotiations. the president called it the only gop power tool, the latest incident of the former president to exert influence over republicans in washington while out of office saying that as he looks at it, what the democrats are proposing will destroy the country, so republicans have no choice but to do what they have to do and democrats will have no choice but to inflict all the horror they are trying to inflict on the united states. democrats have noted that past ceiling boats were bipartisan and they raised it under the former president without any provisions attached to meant to

reduce national debt and would only be used to accumulate -- cover debt accumulated during the previous administration. betty, blacksburg, south carolina. you oppose the idea? caller: yes . i oppose it. that woman was talking about trump? he didn't even take his pay. all of these people coming through, i feel sorry for them. they shouldn't have to go through what they are doing but they should go to biden's house and his kids. they were put in the office to, you know, the american people. they were voted in for american people. not everybody else. they are supposed to be for american people. you know, we pay the taxes and we supposed to keep up other people when they come a week, we

need, the american people, they think they all rich. no, we are not. so, they is the one should be dumb, ask me. always talking about trump, trump, trump. trump didn't even take his pay. that tells me that he's a good man for the american people. host: the debt ceiling was raised three times when trump was president. when mr. trump was president. caller: well. i can tell you now, since january, when biden come in, i feet had done what he should have done and left it alone, this country wouldn't look like it is now. when trump, when trump was in there, you didn't see all this chaos and all these people. host: he raised it three times when he was in office. caller: well, whatever he done,

it didn't hurt the american people that i seen. host: michael, go ahead, beverly hills. caller: i just wanted to say i think we are ok to raise the debt ceiling one final time, but i think the bill that biden wants to pass it should be cut in half. host: hold on, michael, i want to make sure we are clear, you are talking about the three point $5 trillion reconciliation bill? it hasn't passed or gotten a vote in the house or senate yet. you are saying, though, when it does it should be cut in half? caller: it should be cut in half. during the eight months i lived and worked in china, i saw no crime, no cops getting bit up -- beat up, no stores set on fire. that country is run right.

not the united states. i am seriously thinking about leaving the united states and moving to new zealand. host: all right, michael. take a look at reaction from capitol hill. here's the hawaiian senator on a tweet where it would be one thing for republicans to vote on debt ceiling driving the economy into oblivion, voting no, but they are going to block the motion to proceed, they are blocking us from saving the economy. you guessed it correctly, using the filibuster. here is senator alex padilla, guess what's going on, mitch mcconnell filibustering as the senate majority lever -- leader. mitch mcconnell is holding us hostage and putting us on the brink of catastrophe. republicans will not rubberstamp

reckless spending. if democrats want to go it alone , they can go it alone. republicans saying tie it to this reconciliation. senator todd young, republican, saying a vote to raise the debt limit is a vote to cosign on the unprecedented spending spree and republicans will not be complicit. robbie, florida, you support the increase of the debt limit. why? caller: the reason why, the last time we had a balanced budget was under a democratic regime, the clinton regime. but by raising the debt ceiling we can take care of some of the problems that have gotten worse under the pandemic. the reason why republicans are against it is because of a power struggle. the first thing when trump came in, they relieved the wealthy and the large corporations from

having to pay taxes. those taxes are money collected that pay for the things we need. we need to make sure that any bills in terms of infrastructure are paid for and that's what the democrats have done, by rolling back the tax breaks that were given and collecting taxes that were not paid by hiding money offshore in various other loopholes. i say yes, raise the debt ceiling. get the infrastructure like we did under eisenhower, getting the interstate highway system done. or under fdr, getting the camp jobs going for the people who needed jobs to build the infrastructure. let's get that going. host: steve, your opinion this morning, go ahead. caller: i have two main concerns. for my vision, i'm seeing young

people today, like they get married and in the first year they expect to have a brand-new home, a house full of furniture, and the 10,000, 20, whatever thousand in debt because of credit. the government is essentially doing the same thing. more in debt, more in debt, more in debt. my other issue is kind of like the social security. it's been borrowed from. has the government ever paid social security back for what it's borrowed? no, they haven't. that is why into thousand 25 we stand a chance of losing social security, which is really going to devastate the whole country. because senior citizens depend on the social security. we work hard for it, we paid for it.

i just see us going down the tubes. you cannot support any more debt ceiling. you need to curb it, get rid of what is owed. you know? it's almost like the country could, um, i'm trying to think how to put it. if you collected every dollar the united states had, cut down the debt, redistributed the money to the whole united states , within six months you would have millionaires again. and poor people again. it's a cycle. i don't like what i see happening. host: all right, we will leave it there. this is jean from ashland, kentucky, saying that he agrees with joni erns who we showed on the floor yesterday, saying she's right and that the majority leader should speak

over -- skip over republican programs. carl, you are saying raise the debt ceiling? caller: yes. governments are not run by houses. they put people to work, they put money back that has been taxed into the system. what they did with donald trump, every time republicans come to office, they run the budget up. george w. bush put two wars on the credit card and didn't pay for it. when we do something, we have to pay for it in we do. give that money. listen. get rid of the filibuster. put on your stuff. you will walk out of there in

eight years. host: all right. add to, columbia station. caller: of course oppose it. anyone with a right mind knows fiscal responsibility and not just that, infrastructure is a farce. 2% of the bill is infrastructure. the rest of it is for social programs. host: you are talking about something else. the infrastructure proposal is a separate package. just listen. the house passed a continuing resolution to keep the government funded at current levels through december of this year and they tied it to a suspension of the debt ceiling until december of 2022. caller: this infrastructure bill is tied to the debt ceiling. they have that tied up with all the voting regulations from all the states in the country, all

the freebie giveaways and by the way, clinton, when he did the budget for the first time in years, newt gingrich, the 10 step republican plan, he did seven of the 10 steps and the democrats hated him for that. it's all gone now, people had to go back to work to get welfare and all that, all of those things were done. it was a republican plan but forget it, look at this bunch today. this is sad. everything temporary is tied to the infrastructure in the filibuster they want to get rid of every time they have power. look at what they are doing. it's a complete disaster in nine months. the borders, they don't talk about it. everything's a disaster. my lifetime, yours. i'm 62 years old. our military is destroyed, the morale. i was a 30 year company commander. we are weak in the world, they are laughing at us.

the real enemy, we are lapdogs. host: and he mentioned the democratic agenda yesterday. the president met with democrats at the white house, "biden huddles with warning democrats, party agenda in the balance. a five hour meeting to talk about what ed was just referring to, the infrastructure proposals and what goes first. the bipartisan plan? $1.5 trillion? do they have the votes for the $3.5 trillion what some people call soft infrastructure proposal, the build back better plan by the president? yesterday the press secretary was asked about the biden agenda and defending his domestic and foreign policy agenda amidst falling polling numbers. [video clip]

>> he campaigned on a message of unity and competence, working to rebuild. now it's headlines about democrats divided about what they will do on this agenda. france is furious at the u.s.. frustration among allies about afghanistan. what should americans make of that, given what they have seen in recent weeks? >> each of those issues, the president just had a friendly phone call with the president of france where they agreed to meet in october and work together on a range of issues. >> acknowledging a failure that he should have communicated better? x in terms of the level of concern, acknowledging closer consultation or coordination will not be the height of concern for most of the american people to anyone concerned about the relationship with friend that they had a friendly phone call and a path forward. on the second set, this is a

messy sausage making process. the president today, what americans should be encouraged by is that the president is bringing in people on a range of viewpoints about big important packages to make their lives better to the white house, to have a discussion. he's rolling up his sleeves, welcoming them to the white house, covid safe, that's the kind of president he is. deeply engaged with getting bills across the finish line to make their lives better. >> why do you think that 43% of americans now approve of his handling of the job, which had been well above 50% only a matter of weeks ago. what has changed in the eyes of americans that you guys have not done well enough? >> the country is going through a lot right now and people are still under the threat of covid, concerning to a lot of people. even as they approve of his handling of covid, it's something impacting the lives of people.

there is a great deal of anxiety about that, we understand that. our objective is to keep pushing your agenda forward and making lives better. look at that over the long term. host: you heard the press secretary talking about a series of meetings with lawmakers in his own party, three meanings spanning over five hours according to reporting, they noted that after the meetings the party leaders were no closer to resolving their fight over the size, scope, and timing of the two tranches of proposals creating renewed tensions, five days before the house is set to cast its first vote on one of the core democratic proposals in the immediate standoff stems from a promise by nancy pelosi to hold a vote on a bipartisan infrastructure bill to approve road -- improve highways, internet connections, a package embraced by centrists who secured a commitment from party levels to secure the measure by

monday. host: joe, this morning we are talking about a separate debate on capitol hill, to raise the debt ceiling. you supported in chicago, joe? caller: i support it. i'm an army veteran who is a retired carpenter. i remember when the military was , the bases were closed, reagan closed all the bases around the country. there was a total infrastructure, the hospitals, the crafts, lots of crafts.

pipefitters, welders, painters, whole infrastructure there that the veterans had, infrastructure outside the bases and on the bases, hospitals. where did all that money go? it destroyed a lot of cities and towns, made them ghost towns. walters, he set about picking up guns and signing on to war, that's ridiculous. who are you going to shoot at? that's ridiculous. host: rob, st. petersburg, why do you think they shouldn't increase the debt limit. >> i'm 52 and i remember the 70's growing up as a kid. gas prices were close to three dollars a gallon. hello? host: we are listening. three dollars a gallon. caller: yeah, yeah, food prices

were outrageous, my mom was trying to raise three boys by herself. we will make the 70's look like a cakewalk. i think if they keep raising these prices, the prices now, don't think they are high now? to be five dollars a gallon, prices going up to four dollars, five dollars itself. host: you are talking about inflation. what do you think the fed should do? caller: first of all, we don't even know if the economy is real. they have been dumping trillions of dollars buying bonds for the last two years. to stimulate the economy. we don't even know where the bottom is yet. the fed said they might start pulling back? when they pull back, let's see where the economy goes. we don't even know the real stock market host:.

host:you are bringing up another headline in the paper today, the federal reserve chair indicating yesterday that they will start ease up on the asset buying. listen to what he had to say. [video clip] >> at our meeting that concluded earlier today, we continue to work towards goals since we adopted asset purchase guidance and since then the economy has made progress towards these goals and if progress continues broadly as expected, the committee judges that moderation may soon be warranted. we also discuss to the appropriate pace of tapering asset purchases when economic purchases satisfy the criteria laid out within the guidance and while no decisions were made, participants generally viewed that so long as the recovery remains on track, the gradual tapering process concluding around the middle of next year is likely to be appropriate. even after the balance sheet stops expanding, elevated

holdings on longer-term securities will continue to support accommodative conditions. the timing and pace of the coming reduction in asset purchases will not be intended to carry a direct signal regarding the interest rates left off, which we have articulated differently. we continue to expect it will be appropriate to maintain the current target range for the federal funds rate until labor market conditions reach levels consistent with assessments on maximum employment and inflation has risen to be on track to moderately exceed 2% for some time. host: the federal reserve chair talking about the asset buying that's been being done since the covid-19 pandemic. bob, michigan, you support this. what's your message to lawmakers? >> mine is for the guy that called who said that he would

prefer to live in the people's republic of china over a typical raising, temporarily raising the debt ceiling to avoid a shutdown. i'm offering to buy that guy a one-way ticket to china. host: that, if you don't, you wouldn't shut down the government, we would default on debt. caller: government typically shuts down for a while. it would be a mess. but the standard operating procedure for years, from both parties, to raise the debt ceiling. but this is for the guy that wants to go to china. i'm giving him an offer of a one-way ticket. i will buy it for him and he can go and live there. host: ok. emily, virginia, why do you oppose raising the debt limit? caller: i think that the way the

government spends, not just disk current administration, but ever since it became normal just to keep increasing rates, raising, raising, spend more, spend more, for many administrations, i would have to look back, was it clinton the last time to balance ? it hasn't always been normal just to spend more than what is within the budget. i think democrats are to blame, republicans are to blame. and furthermore i think that part of the blame lies with the expectations of the people, the citizens of the united states. the more that we expect, the more programs, the more, you

know, we have become accustomed to a lifestyle where government pays for this, pays for that. let's have this program and that program. there's a lot of great programs the government funds. but in my opinion the costs is too great. and at some point, living a lifestyle beyond, you know, reasonable means, is catastrophic. host: how do you respond to janet yellen in the wall street journal this month arguing that when we raise the debt ceiling we are effectively agreeing to raise the credit card balance of the country and in this case, 97% of the balance was incurred by past congresses and presidential administrations

caller: right. so i think certainly there is a book, and you know, i don't know what the rules are stating names of the book, but if you are an individual in your own like a wallowing, in your own consumer credit debt, yes, the first step is to pay down your bills, but there should be a plan to figure out what are, what are my needs and how can i live within them? part of the process is sacrificing spending and to learn, you know? you have to, yes, i agree, we do

have obligations. but what are we doing to not incur future obligations? host: i agree -- i'm going to leave it there because tony has texted to say that he agrees. it's creating economic the -- economic collapse like increasing electricity needs leads to a warmer planet. larry, your opinion? caller: i support raising the debt we now have a new cash flow coming back in. i want to give a little history lesson here. benjamin franklin once said years ago that the republican party has always been a party for cooperation and that they have proven that. another thing, i just want to add this and it has nothing to

do with debts, i have cancer and i want people to know that i got my covid shots. with cancer. please go out there and get your shots. i got my shots back in march and april. host: ok, larry, we believe it at that. cameron, what did president obama say about it when he was a senator? the fact we are here today to raise the debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. the former treasury secretary month arguing for a short-lived default that could threaten economic growth and increase the risk of roiling markets and sapping a phenomena confidence and preventing americans from receiving vital services, damaging and undermining in the trust and full faith and credit

host: jeff, ohio, good morning to you. caller: good morning. host: your turn to tell washington what you think they should do. caller: i think raising the debt ceiling is just going to give them more opportunities to carry out waste, fraud, and abuse. that is what. -- what the swamp is known for and in 10 years seniors will be fighting a war against younger liberals. host: this message, we need to have everyone pay their fair share. clinton balanced the budget. every president since then has it. we might need to increase it one

time to pay some debt. we will go to vic in florida. you support? caller: i support the five cents rand paul plan that would eliminate the national debt in five years. in 2001 he told them that when the national debt was 5.4 trillion dollars, he proposed a balanced budget amendment that you can't spend any more than what you taken in taxes and now he is proposing a five cent plan over five years to eliminate the national debt. host: who pays the five cents? caller: the everyone. five cents on everything you buy.

he goes into details online. over five years, he would eliminate $28.5 trillion in taxes and it would be spread out over different purchases. he has had plans like this before, they were called the penny plan. this is the second one. he knows what he's talking about. he's a doctor. it's very sad these people getting all this misinformation about fox news -- from fox news in the national debt. the national debt, you have to have a national debt. if you have a catastrophe like ida, you have to pay for. individuals can't. they have to borrow money. the national debt is necessary to the survival of the united states. we wouldn't be able to fix the forest fires or the hurricanes. we wouldn't be able to combat the virus.

it has to be controlled. people don't know because we have a bunch of donnie's -- dummies on the airwaves. host: i'm going to show you the rand paul website plan you were referencing. the five pennies plan to balance the budget five years. you can find it on his senate website. caller: i think biden is doing a great job but we need costs control and socialism. the rich need to pay their taxes . host: why do you oppose raising

the debt ceiling? caller: i'm worried about inflation. we need social security and medicare, which is socialism. anyone against socialism should give up their social security and medicare. host: mickey, los angeles. caller: throughout the week you have this program with articles from experts and people on the show saying that this money, this increasing the debt ceiling is for the debts incurred during the trump administration. no other president spent $8 trillion over the first four years of their presidency. so, like the gentleman before mentioned, so what if we have national debt? we have to have

it. 4 trillion dollars was issued to help people cope with the pandemic. what if the national debt is $50 trillion? it doesn't really matter. people saying individuals living within their means. this is not an individual, this is the government. the only source of income for the u.s. government, the major source of income is collecting taxes from people and when the taxes are less then the amount of money we are spending, we create this debt. plus the national debt. there are two different stories. the budget for defense is large and so on and that can be argued , but we cannot default on what we have already spent and we need to pay people that. the national debt thing, that our children or grandchildren will have to pay it?

there's no such thing that someone will have to pay for this national debt. thank you. host: george, michigan, welcome back. caller: well, greta, i have been kind of disappointed in you. i have been calling and texting lately, trying to get you guys to do something about it, animal-rights. you refuse to do it, you don't even answer. the previous gentleman said the debt ceiling doesn't matter. her the next generations? if we are trillions in debt, the generation before us pays the debt of the previous generation.

raising the debt ceiling and balancing the budget is never going to happen until the ceiling is where the debt is tied to congressional pay and benefits. the more it goes up, the less their pay should be. $4 trillion divided by 300 million americans is 12,000 dollars in american. even divided over 10 years that's $1200 per american. a family of four pays extra taxes every year if they spend 4 trillion dollars on this infrastructure. i keep wanting to, i keep calling c-span, no one ever responds. the mission statement is view on government. i'm very frustrated with

"washington journal." i have stopped watching most of the time. you keep hearing what the american people are asking for but you never bring on people responsible for this. host: ok, george. we take the criticism and we will try to do better. we certainly hope that lawmakers from both parties, independents, will join us. we ask them to sit at the table with us. in this case in a virtual studio during the pandemic. and respond and essentially have a town hall meeting right here in washington with them right here on all the debates that are happening in here, in the nation's capital, and around the country as well. peggy, washington state. good morning. caller: yes, good morning, dear.

i support raising the debt ceiling. you use your reddit when you seriously need it. the pandemic was a serious need. likeness doing a great job. we have had hurricanes, floods and we need the rest of the government to follow through. there were no emergencies. this pandemic has been atrocious . host: lawrence, clinton, maryland, your turn. caller: thank you for taking my call. i want government to raise the debt ceiling and republicans and covered -- democrats, when trump was there, the debt ceiling was raised three times. why is it different to the new president? i have the belief that the parties are the same in the way that they have different takes on national issues.

making the government to work. they should at least come up afghanistan, the money that should be plowed to prosecuting that war over there is now something to use for our problems here. thank you. host: john, good morning. caller: how are you? host: i'm doing well. what do you think about whether the debt ceiling should be raised? caller: there's no choice, we can't allow the government to

default. we can certainly reduce our debt obligations. we have some very strange priorities in this country. we spend over 50% of our discretionary tax money on the military to support wars around the world which have, far as i can tell, limited the strategic value. what they do, they provide markets for large arms factories like lockheed martin and boeing, whose ceos are making $30 million a year in compensation. we need to redirect some of that funding towards social programs

and infrastructure development. both human and robot -- and physical infrastructure. we are falling way behind. we are bringing our infrastructure up to date. by the same token and we could certainly reduce the need for these raisings of these debts if we started collecting taxes from people who are not paying anything. host: when we come back we will continue this conversation. we will talk to two lawmakers. a first will be deming -- democratic congressman out of new york, with labor committees, and then later we will have

jason smith, a republican on the budget ♪ committee. ♪ ♪ >> live today is the house return at 10:00 on legislation. running defense programs for fiscal year 2022. they will also take up the year of $1 trillion to bart -- support the israel iron dome missile defense system. the confirmation of lawrence pan to be a district court judge of district libya. on c-span3, the senate homeland security committee will hold a hearing on cyber security infrastructure threats in the united states. that is at 1015 eastern time. >> joseph stalin has been dead for three years when his successor stunned a closed

gathering of communist officials with a litany of his assessors abuses. it was meant to clear the way for reform from above. crews have secret speech of february 25, 1956, shattered the myth of stalin's infallibility. this is the way harvard press introduces the book moscow in 1956, the silent spring. georgetown university professor smith. professor smith is on this episode of book notes plus. listen on c-span.com or on wherever you get your podcasts. >> washington journal continues. host: we have a democrat out of new york and a member of the appropriations committee. good morning to you sir. guest: good morning. host: how did you vote on

raising the debt ceiling, and the proposal to continue funding the government until december? guest: we had to. we cannot paralyze the government in the middle of a pandemic. we are reeling from this covid 19 pandemic. it is important that we get our footing under us and that we look to recover from it economically by passing an infrastructure bill and a human infrastructure built that is so important to our families. host: you voted yes on this proposal to keep the government funded and raised the debt ceiling. guest: that is correct. host: the house republicans did not join the democrats. the majority of senate democrats say they -- republican said they will not do that. here's what todd young said. a vote to raise the debt limit is about to cosign on the democrats partisan and unprejudiced indented --

unprecedented spending spree. this is what you are talking about. he says republicans will not be complicit. guest: the debt ceiling issue did not just appear on our doorstep. it has been part of the republican administration and the democratic administration. we will deal with it, but right now, it is in the middle of a pandemic. our children are going back to school right now, and it is right before us. we must provide for the american people, funding for things like daycare, women with disproportionately hurt. they found them sells at home taking care of their kids. they left their jobs. we need to provide universal daycare opportunities for them. we must provide a level of health for people who want to go back to college, to community colleges, to ensure they are

trained for these important transportation all jobs -- transportation jobs. we must american -- invest in america we are to recover. host: would you be willing to vote on tying a raising of the debt ceiling to a reconciliation bill of $3.5 trillion? guest: i think that is a complicated debate of a reconciliation package, but right now, it is complicated enough as it is. it would be a major mistake. we should take on the merit -- america needs to have its infrastructure redone. american needs funding for roads and bridges. we must invest in broadband and housing. most portly, we must invest in jobs.

if this is tied to a debt ceiling debate that would be a horrible mistake. host: in your opinion, which package needs to come to the floor first in the house? $1.5 trillion bipartisan package that was improved -- approved by sanders, or the three point $5 trillioninfrastructure plan? guest: both. it is like those runners kneeling picks. they hold hands across the finish line together. we support both packages. we are having a robust debate about it. moderates and progressives within the democratic party will continue debate on the issues and the important provisions in that bill which are critical to their consistent widths. -- constituents. you cannot go back to work yet

if you don't have somewhere to leave your kids. it is important to have universal pre-k. it is important to have academic infrastructure prepared so that the labor force can be ready for the infrastructure plan on day one. i would not want to head of the other. i would like to see human infrastructure pass first, but i would not put 1 -- if there was a consensus, i would be ok. host: the congresswoman of washington state has said that the group is willing to vote down the senate if a structure bill, and less the larger $3.5 trillion attachment is ready by the self-imposed deadline of the summer 27. are you part of that group? guest: i am members -- i am a

member of the progressive caucus, and i would like to see the reconciliation package was sort -- pushed forward. we have time to discuss these issues, and i think we will get a result. it will be a victory for one and an automatic loss for the other -- that is the wrong approach. i am committed to make sure that we walk out of here helping the american people. we do that by passing the infrastructure and assisting american families. host: you're calling from minnesota, dean phillips, -- your colleague from minnesota, dean phillips, leaves and this is a stain on the biden administration's legacy. none of us know what this is going to go. it is made or broken. plain and simple. that is true of this president and the speaker and the majority

leaders. do you agree? guest: i am completely confident in the leadership. i am a democrat because of the values of our party. i believe that we support women and children. i believe that union jobs are important to the recovery for america. all of these are democratic values. this is what ties us together. some of us may be more moderate than others. i think all of us are committed to lifting these values. i think that we will do that. this is very much a provision of our president who i support. he is doing a tremendous job. i support her leadership. we will make this happen. host: we want to invite our viewers to join in on this bending debate debate --

spending debate conversation. we will take your questions or comments. if you are democrat, dial (202) 748-8000. if you're republican, (202) 748-8001. if you're an independent, (202) 748-8002. you can text us at (202) 748-8003. hyatt, tim. -- hello, tim. caller: the only can certain is about the deficit and debt ceiling, and they are not impacted. i can remember the previous debt ceiling issue when they only raised the debt ceiling.

if the president obama, if he accepted a tax cut, which he didn't want to do, shut down the government, three times, to force a debt ceiling, shows that they are totally irresponsible and governing. [indiscernible] guest: this debt ceiling in appear in our country overnight. it has been rolling over for decades. this is the first time in 20 years that we find ourselves not involved in a war. wars are very expensive.

they lead to a deficit and this problem with the debt ceiling. we must give our nation and apple -- ample amount of time to recover from the pandemic and that involves investing in people. that entails investing in info structure. host: wake forest, north carolina, republican. caller: good morning. i have a question for both of you. you read three articles from political best politico, but you ignored articles about hunter biden being completely true. why did you ignore that? host: what is your point? caller: we have a president in office that you like. host: diane, independent. caller: hello.

i think joe biden software of our largest auditory problems with his -- which is cool. we do not have a war. we do not have to maintain equipment in afghanistan. i guess he wants to do this by diplomacy, so we no longer really need a military. we could probably fire everybody. if we were to do all that, we would have all of this excess money to pay off the debt, and deftly pay off the debt, maybe we can start doing all the social programs that he prefers. with that idea? -- wouldn't that be an idea? guest: ending the war will have fiscal results. i support the decision he made not to commit hourly young --

our young men and women who have been involved in far too many conflict across the globe. it has been expensive. it has a toll on the economy. we should look at some more progressive ways to invest those kinds of dollars. the education system needs to -- job training across america who may not find a job after the pandemic. they are all looking for employment that may not be available. we must train them and provide them an opportunity right now. host: colorado, republican. good morning. you are on the air with the congressman. caller: good morning. i have a couple things about the inefficiency of the government, and i will go back a ways. under reagan, they started to

use battleships in mothballs to be efficient. they were expensive. they were building one destroyer that started in stopped the wall and the pipeline. there was the grand junction that was housed after it was a headquarters. now they are saying washington, d.c. is starting and stopping programs. it is a highlight of inefficiency in the government. as was mentioned earlier, we need to start and get it done. host: water youth -- what are your thoughts. guest: i agree that this is not good for the government anywhere. we need to save ourselves from the pentagon's bloated

budget. we must stop wasteful spending. i agree with the caller. host: the deputy whip of the progressive caucus and we have some news this morning saying that the speaker's goal, along with the white house and senate democratic leadership is to get moderates and progressives to agree on a series of principles in order to facilitate an infrastructure vote on monday. it is tough to decide about money in taxes. guest: washington often engages itself in a very robust debate, and we find common ground. the speaker is great at achieving that. i think a set of principles to guide us is a smart way to move forward.

we must set realistic deadlines. we must have deadlines before us so we can inform our debate and make sure that we reach some consensus. the democratic party is a big tent party. we have people from all walks of life. moderates, progressives, you have urban representatives, rural presenters. there are different points of view, but we also have the ability to come together and i am optimistic that we will do that. host: the $3.5 trillion package includes immigration proposals. they are in order. what alternatives do democrats have to pass what you wanted to do in the $3.5 trillion package on immigration? guest: we predicted that we may have some issues with the

original proposal. as such, we develop a series of alternative proposals that senators will be presenting to the council. among that is a changing of the registry from 1973 to 2010. it has been done eight times in the past of our history. it is a common practice to change the registry dates to allow people to apply for a green card. we will ask the parliamentarian about that. we still have several other proposals that we are willing to present. host: westfield, new york. democratic caller. caller: i have a question. when we do not raise the debt ceiling, there is usually a government shutdown, and if i remember correctly, the last time we had a government shutdown, it cost a lot of money. more than just keeping the

government going, so i was wondering, do you have any statistics on how much the last one cost, or how much this could possibly cost if we shut down the government. i am not talking about the cost of relief, and federal workers, and all of the subcontractors, and i am talking about the total cost. what would it shutdown cost? above and beyond what we would normally have, of keeping the government open? host: congressman? guest: we will do everything we can to avoid a government shutdown. a government shutdown in the middle of a pandemic is a very bad thing. we will do everything that we can to prevent the other side of the aisle -- they are developing positions regarding this, and we are hopeful that they will not resort to that kind of political tactic, which is in many cases,

a shutdown has been a political tactic, particularly before the midterm elections. we are hopeful that we will not get there. we will do everything we can to avoid it. it was very costly as the caller said. i do not remember the exact figure, but it was very costly, and we should not get there. we should be able to reach an agreement. host: shutting down the government is tied to the continuing resolution that passes in the house. that keeps the government running at current spending levels. congress has not been able hasoo agree on what the next year's spending levels will be read the fiscal year ends at the end of this month. as you know, they tie that to the debt ceiling issue. some statistics for the caller. defaulting on the debt would cost 6 million jobs and wipe out $15 trillion in wealth. you can find that report at the

washington post.com. buffalo, new york. independence. good morning. caller: good morning. gunderson, this is the reason why i want to leave new york state. people like you. when do we stop giving free things to everybody? i work through this whole pandemic. i have kept my job. you just keep giving out free, free, free, and it doesn't end. you talk about social security, social security. it is never welfare. why is welfare never brought into that situation. ? guest: for the caller, i am glad

you were able to work through the pandemic. you are very lucky to have done that. many people could not do that. it was a very dangerous time. over 600,000 people have died during this pandemic. i commend the essential workers who went out there and put their lives on the line right in the middle of the pandemic. i don't know how many people do that in my district. many people in my district are essential workers. they were taking the subways and the buses -- public buses -- to go to work during the pandemic, during those tough parts of march and april in new york. they were out there working. i am glad that you are able to get to work. some folks were not. some had to stay home to take care of their children. as you know, schools closed. some folks were not able to go to work because their jobs shutdown.

as a result, the government, which could be a force of gold -- good, with able to step in and provide assistance. that assistance will not be around forever. you can see already how we have act off a little bit on some of the unemployment benefits we are not giving another stimulus check out. we will provide another child tax credit. it is important to live children from property -- poverty. the child tax credit has lifted hundreds of thousands of children out of poverty. over 49,000 families will benefit from the child tax credit in my district. that is a good thing. it is a good thing to have children out of the poverty level. we have families that have a food security issue. we have included assistance for

those families. we have increased the food stamps. that is good for our nation during the crisis of our generation. this was a crisis of our generation. the government has to respond appropriately. host: we will go to pomona california. go ahead. caller: hello? host: go ahead. caller: if your guest ever loses an election, he is a future as a used car salesman. all of the democratic values that he is talking about,, credit values are strawmen. even the bill has very little to do with info structure. it is a giant monstrosity of $3.5 trillion. it is a massive expansive of the

welfare state. they will continue with the climate change alarmism and racism against white people, all to convince us that we have to do spending so they can buy voters and stay in power forever. your guest also -- prime minister johnson: we will host: we will leave it there. guest: climate change is not a hoax. if you are hit by tropical storm ida, you would know that if your house flooded, it was not a hoax. if you live on the west coast, and you are fleeing from wildfires, you would know that climate change is not a hoax. if you live in louisiana, and you are facing major flooding, and you are displaced with your entire family, you will know that it is not a hoax. yes, we should address some of the climate change issues.

we should do that legislatively. $3.5 trillion package is for a decade. it is for 10 years. it will cobble a lot for the american people. caller: jay, what is your comment for the condiment? caller: i have a couple of comments. congratulations on never answering a single question that none of the people have asked. i have heard you say that you agree with us, but nothing on policy. on how we have to spend his money. it is a good giveaway for votes. it is always done before and midterm. it is silly. it is like having a debt ceiling. why haven't debt ceiling if you're going to raise it? it does not matter. we have to pay for it. let us just go raise the debt ceiling, and we are going to do it the next time, so we can overspend the next time.

it is insanity to do the same thing. you have not answered a question or come up with a single policy that will help the country that this is going to cause if you keep playing around with the money, because the money is going to turn around and go, let's see, $.10 on the dollar, what does that do for us? host: a response? guest: we should begin to aggress the -- address the debt ceiling issue. there are many important ways we can encompass that. i just do not agree to that in the middle of this pandemic. we have other priorities, and we will continue. we just passed a cr which will give us several months. we need to continue to address the needs of the american people, and we are still hurting. many of them are trying to get back to work. we must recover from this pandemic. host: virginia, democratic caller. caller: i think we ought to

raise the debt ceiling, but i remember when president trump won in their and he got that government shutdown. why is it that white folk claim that if a blackman drives a cadillac, he cannot talk about it? i am 85 years old, but i get so sick and tired of american people not being american people. we are one american people. it doesn't matter if you're republican or democrat. that's my call. guest: i am glad to hear from an

85-year-old person. the race debate has no place in america. we have to come together. when you find yourself unemployed, your children are still at home because, perhaps, the school had to be shut down because of covid. it affects everybody. white america, black america, and certainly, we must address the racial issues that are still pending in america. right now, it is time to come together as a nation. host: thank you very much for the conversation this morning. we always appreciate that you talk to our viewers. please come back. guest: thank you so much for having me on once again. host: we will take a sharp rack and when we -- break and when we come back we will be joined with the top republican on the budget committee and then we will turn our attention to the global vaccination effort.

that conversation is with kate elder with the group doctors without borders. ♪ >> sunday night on q&a, lawrence wright, pulitzer prize winning offer and a new yorker staff writer, talks about his latest book, the plague year. america and the time of covid. it examines the origins of covid-19. the response to the outbreak by the chinese government, and the handling of the pandemic the trumpet ministration. >> it was a global pandemic that was prepared by john thompkins and other people. it rate the united states as number one at being prepared, and the president cited that greatest consultations. yet, it turns the rankings

upside down, and we have been more realistically representative of what happens to countries like rwanda and latvia and vietnam, doing very well, and the united states and u.k. are doing really poorly. hubris had a lot to do with it, no question. >> lawrence wright, sunday night on c-span's q&a. you can also listen to q&a as a podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. >> washington journal continues. host: republicans of missouri are our guest this morning. he is the top gop on the budget committee and a ranking member. thank you for joining us this morning. talk to us about what happened this week to raise the debt ceiling and continue funding the federal government to december. how did you vote, and why? guest: i voted no.

we have been raising the issue of the debt ceiling since before mid july. there was a letter with speaker pelosi and chuck schumer. we have asked for conversation and negotiation. the debt limit expired july 31, and unfortunately this is the first action that has been taken, and the first aspect of any communication to move forward. in my opinion, it is on acceptable that the republicans have been forced to work with the democrats. all we have heard is crickets in regards to negotiation. they control the white house, the house, the senate. republicans should not cosign onto a loan of all of this reckless spending that the democrats are trying to pass. if they want to spend trillions of dollars, on the backs of

working-class americans, they need to get that loan themselves. host: do you agree, conversely, that the money that is owed now, the debt, is from spending of previous congresses and in ministrations under president trump? guest: that is not true. we have documentation that have provided news outlets from the house budget committee, providing that everything that was asked for, that was taxed, that money has been allocated through prior spending limits. the spending limit did not reach its cap until july 31. we are seven months into the biden administration and spending. seven months. host: is the treasury secretary not truthful when she writes, when we raise the debt soon, we are effectively agreeing to

raise the country's credit card balance, and in this case, 97% of that balance was occurred by the previous presidential mistress? guest: let's look at it this way. the new funding will expire on october 1. congress has yet to tax the funding. we have paid all the bills of our country as of today. we can continue to pay all of our bills according to the treasury secretary until the second or third week of october. that goes into a new funding year that has to be passed by october 1. just by that statement alone, it says she is incorrect. host: what you think should happen with the debate over the debt limit, one that occurred with every congress and administration? guest: you look at prior history. this is the first year we did

not have spending caps in place. there is always been discussion, anytime you raise the debt ceiling, of how we can get our spending under control. there are caps, their fiscal restraints, there are decades of being discussed in negotiations. democrats and republicans come together. that is what we need to do. unfortunate, my counterpart, the chairman of the budget committee, he wants to raise the debt limit a gazillion dollars. that is what he is quoted. that tells how out of touch the democrats are. a billion dollars. that is on except the bull. that is the leader of the house budget committee. host: the debt ceiling was raised three times under president trump? why not do it under president biden? guest: the debt ceiling needs to be raise, but the democrats are enclosed that best -- they are"

-- they are in control of that. when the republicans were in control in 2008, we raise the debt ceiling. the democrats, really nancy pelosi, she would help us. they required the republicans to do it all by themselves. they were the ones that were proposing trillions of dollars in spending, so if they want these trillions of dollars, they need to do it themselves. they have the tools before them to do it themselves. host: on a second -- separate debate on if structure, -- infrastructure, how do you plan to vote. guest: nancy pelosi is doing everything she can to get the votes. i think she does not have the votes. she has such disarray within her own party. progressives are refusing to vote for the infrastructure package that she has put up for monday the 27th. if you look at the info structure package almost $400

billion of the new spending and that infrastructure package is not paid for. when they originally announced this bipartisan agreement, they said that it would be 100% pay for. a portly, almost $400 billion -- unfortunately, almost $40 billion of the roughly $580 billion of new spending in the ever structure package is not paid for. our country is facing some of the highest -- since 1983. the last people i represent need inflation to get up. when you have politicians recklessly spending, that is not spayed for, -- paid for, it will cause inflation. we all believe we need good roads and bridges, but let us pay for them. the house budget committee has given the senate majority -- house majority opportunities of

how to pay for. but they do not care. they just want to tax what they want. host: you are a no vote. guest: absolutely. pay for the bill. we do not need to pass it on for generations to come. we need roads and bridges. put it this way. this reconciliation package that is tied to the info structure package, the $4.3 trillion proposal, the largest spending bill in the history of the united states, the largest tax increase in the history of the nicest, you could build the national interstate highway system in today's dollars eight times for that amount of money. a times that you could build every interstate highway in the united states in today's dollars. that tells you how much spending is before you. any american would look at and and say it is unbelievable. host: there is a headline from

your local missouri television station. $8 billion will come to missouri. this is according to white house statistics. your state can receive that much money. how do you vote no? guest: what you have to look at is how are you going to bankrupt your friends and neighbors and the people you represent? gas prices in our state have increased 80%. the cost of put food on the table and close on the back of hard-working americans has drastically increased. from august this year until august of last year, inflation has increased by over 6%. like i said, without one addition of a dollar for reckless spending, we are projected to have the highest inflation since 19 81. whenever you have a rising cost of inflation, that is a direct tax on hard-working working-class families, and that is the last thing that the

people of missouri want. meat prices are increasing by over 12%. gas prices by over 80%. they want to make sure that congress has been responsible. they want to make sure that we do have strong roads and bridges , and they want to make sure that it is paid for. this bill is not paid for. it is almost $400 billion. it has yet to be paid for. there are ways to pay for. but, the democrats choose not to. host: steve, independent. you're up first with the congress. guest: i am so glad to be on with him. you are disingenuous. hypocrisy is smelling the place up. you did not do a thing when it came down to raising the debt ceiling to pay for tax increases for the rich buddies, but you guys do not ever come forward

with anything you can do positively to do anything. all you do is come out against, against, against this, against that, but you never come up with anything positive. you did not have a problem when it was trump in the white house and you had to raise the debt ceiling. were you in that group? did you raise the debt ceiling for all the tax cuts? host: congressman? guest: let me tell you about what that cut tax cuts did for missouri. the median family of four is right at $40,000. we are one of the poorest congressional district in the country. when i helped write the tax cut, we helped working-class families , that family of four that makes less than $54,000 a year, they pay zero, zero in federal taxes. i know that you hear people all the time say that the tax cut is just for the wealthy. i just gave you a simple fact

that the people i represent in our district, by taxing that taxcutting jobs ask, the tech -- the child tax credit, the family that makes less than $64,000 a year in our congestion old district with paid zero in federal taxes. that meant something to the working-class families that i come from, the working-class families that i represent. host: did the tax cuts increase the national debt? guest: actually not. our revenues have only grown. our year-to-year revenue in our country have continued to grow every year since we passed the tax cut and jobs act in 2070. -- 2017. caller: good morning, and thank you, washington journal. big fan. wish i could call more often.

great dress, by the way. i take a slight issue with some of the statements that joe is making. the first three years of the trump administration, he proposed a federal budget that would slot $1 trillion that were added to the deficit. it included the rich, i understand that. it has trickle-down economics. it really doesn't work on the long run. in the beginning, yes. everybody gets election money. after a couple of years, you can see the rich are bringing home hundreds of millions while the average taxpayer makes $2000. while the economy was growing, saying look how great things are, but he had three budgets that increased the deficit by $1

trillion. he never brought in more money. do you know how many millionaires and billionaires there are in our country? i know people keep saying 1%, but do not many there actually are smart --? you have about 19 millionaires and billionaires, but they have 95% of the wealth. guest: under the first couple years, before the pandemic, after tax increases, and taxcutting jobs ask under the trump administration you saw the best economy in the history of our country. it was because of president trump's leadership and reducing the taxes on working-class families. it made us more competitive with other countries. democrats are trying to do the opposite right now. they are trying to increase

taxes on working-class families, for example in the reconciliation bill. joe biden campaigned and said that he will not be raising taxes on people who make less than $40,000. that is a boldfaced lie, and there are several provisions within the four point rejoin dollar pending bill that raises taxes on working-class families. in fact, it raises taxes hires than that of communist china. it causes american job creators and manufacturers to be at a competitive disadvantage to the rest of the world, to europe, to china. we face, like i said, the best economy pre-pandemic because of the regulatory work president trump did. also, the cut taxes that was done in 2017. i wish we could go back to when president trump was there, but unfortunately the policy that is

being pushed with increasing regulations, increasing the cost on fossil fuels and energy, and of course, the inflation crisis that we are facing right now. it is a disaster for working-class families that are just trying to make ends meet. host: bob, in hometown, illinois. republican. caller: thank you so much. you are one of the -- i've a couple comets and questions. this inflation is already a tax increase on us. i worked already on my life until 70. i never made for $2000 in one year. if i was a millionaire or billionaire, i am willing to move to some other country and get out of here.

what the afghans -- they are automatically -- who comes up with these arbitrary numbers? $6 billion? that should last a hundred and 24,000 afghans the rest of their lives. where do we come up with the $16? where are we going to get it? why do not we give people under bridges money? guest: it is great have your comment. who knows where these numbers come from from the administration. sometimes i think they just train them up and decide here is a billion or a trillion. if they pass this reconciliation bill at $4.3 trillion, if you talk about this funding as a new spending. they have passed in the last 18 months in order to pay just for

the new spending, not counting to fund government. spending since they have been in power in the last 18 months, if they enact this, it would take the entire annual wage of all americans, the entire wages of all americans, to pay for just the new spending in the last 18 months. the spending is out of control, and whenever every scorekeeper economist is telling you and congress is telling you that we are reaching the highest inflation we have regions 1981 without one additional dollar, it is scary that we might end up there if we continue to spend like drunken sailors. host: kenny is an independent and wilson, north caroline a. welcome to the conversation. caller: thank you for taking my call.

[indiscernible] [indiscernible] along came george bush, overreacted, 9/11, and these wars. these wars are on a grand scale. studies have shown that this war and these republicans that they got us into, there was no debate on spending, because it was nondiscretionary. they spent $20 trillion would everything is said and done for this debacle in afghanistan, and in iran. if you look at the interest we have been paying for 20 years,

you look at all the soldiers that have paid for the rest of their lives and their medical, it is a shame -- host: i think we hear your point. are the wars to blame? guest: i could not hear the question. host: the reason is that the wars in afghanistan the former president bush have caused inflation. that is why we have the debt. guest: numerous politicians that came before us for generations have been recklessly spending. we talk about a trillion dollars, a lot of folks ask how do you realize what a trillion dollars is? there is not a trillion air in the world. but the west way to show where we are from a spending level in this country, where the physical house of the united states is, is to take a lot of zeros and put them into numbers every day americans understand. imagine you spent $60,000 a year. $68,000 a year.

but you only have an income of $38,000 a year. but you have $290,000 on your credit card. that is where we are. from a spending level, and where we are from a debt level, we have $29 -- $29 trillion. we spent 6.8 showing dollars a year, and we bring in about 3.8 trillion a year. no household could operate that way, but that is how we are doing it. of or silly, you have the leader of the house budget committee saying that we need to raise the debt ceiling a gazillion dollars. host: was it reckless spending when you are in the house and president trump was in power? guest: there is no doubt that republicans and democrats have spending problems. that is why i decided, two days after the election, to seek a

spot as the republican leader of the budget committee. the fiscal restraint, the spending of this country, need to be addressed. that is why i've been advocating pushing this. think is, republicans have tended to spend in the billions. democrats are tending to spend in the trillions. just in the first couple of months of the minded ministration under policy and schumer, they passed a $1.9 trillion bailout bill to their political friends and donors. now they are proposing a $4.3 trillion reconciliation package that will only help the wealthy buddies and friends and political donors and working-class families. host: democratic caller from maryland. caller: why have you not disavowed the extremist representatives in your party? [indiscernible]

you can shoot americans overstate election fraud and brought another school board meeting. mccarthy is brought a head shaped gavel in of the majority leader. the republican infrastructure and -- insurrection was on our capital and [indiscernible] host: can you focus on a question for the congressman? caller: our infrastructure is sad, and no doubt about it, no one has anything to reduce this impact of this. all of this, someone has tried to fan the flame of this. host: do you have a reaction

about the january 6 issue and of the quote he attributed to his calling. guest: i did not get a question out of that, but violence is not the answer in america. just as he pointed out, some crazy accusations against republican members, i remember when democrat collingswood be telling their followers to go be disruptive. to be in the space of cabinet secretaries for president donald trump. this is not the answer. violence is not the answer. we have people on both parties that make statements that are unnecessary and not needed. host: ruben in philadelphia, republican. caller: how are you? i had my number program from three years ago, so i just

automatically called, but i wanted to say good morning. host: so you are not a democrat? caller: yes i am. i hate -- keep hearing you talk about the economy under donald trump. but obama and biden [indiscernible] what i don't understand is why you guys won't make eight infrastructure deal. you keep talking about raising the debt for our children, but my children do not have clean water to drink and clean air, and they cannot communicate with each other and get medical care. what good is the money going to do if they don't have clean water to drink or air to breathe? going back to the 70's when i was a child, i was always aware of global warming. we had to start using eris -- stop using aerosol spray cans

because it was destroying the ozone layer. this is about millions of of millions of americans, you keep saying this is about the money, but what good is it if we do not have air and water? guest: republicans and democrats both agree that infrastructure -- we have the cleanest air and cleanest water we have had in decades. of course, everyone once clean water and clean air. i am a farmer and rancher. we know how to take care of the land. i would rather drink the water where i represent in southeast missouri then drink the water up near the potomac. we know how to take care of things missouri. that is why we have clean-air, clean water. we take care of it. i would encourage the rest of the country to be a little bit more like missouri, where we protect our land and our people. with regard to structure, if it

is about roads and bridges, and clean water, of course. if it is about connectivity, broadband, i places in my congressional district where you can't even use 911 service. i have elected officials i serve with that talk about 5g and they want 5g. we would like one g. we would like to have the same access to connectivity as other places. even though we are in a rural area, we should not be overlooked. the infrastructure bill should address rural areas is much as they address urban areas. host: richard and alabama, independent. caller: yes ma'am. donald trump's biggest expenditures were rebuilding our military. that something that needs to be done because it was run down

over biden and obama's administration. we fight wars and they are necessary. we have to stop terrorism and other countries before it is our country. all that is trying to divide people that is going on right now, i watch the democratic party for six years try to put us into little boxes, and i'm sick and tired of it. guest: we need a strong national defense. we need a military that protects us and the citizens of this country. it is unfortunate when you see what happened in afghanistan, where the biden administration left tens of billions of dollars in military equipment behind for the taliban. what is so scary is that the taliban is now the most wealthy and well-funded country and government behind the united

states and china because of the reckless behavior of joe biden and his presidency and his ministration leaving tens of billions of dollars of our united states military equipment behind for the terrorist regime of the taliban. host: congressman, always a great conversation with you. thank you very much. guest: have a great day. host: we come back, we will switch gears and talk about global vaccination efforts with kate elder and a group of doctors without borders. ♪

[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2021] host: on your screen is kate elder. she is a policy advisor for doctors without orders to talk about the global covid vaccine supply. guest: doctors without borders is an international humanitarian organization that brings medical care to people left out of the system -- people in national disasters, developing countries.

host: what world are you paying -- playing in the pandemic? guest: doctors without borders has been responding to the pandemic since its onset. a large role is to make sure people are still able to access other health care during the destruction of regular services. kids are still getting measles, still need to be protected against diarrhea. we also play a large role in making sure people are able to access all the other health services that are still necessary. host: i want to show our viewers what the president announced yesterday and have you give us some details. here he is announcing a new commitment from the u.s. for global vaccine supply. president biden: to beat the pandemic here, we need to beat it everywhere. i made and i'm keeping the promise that america will come the arsenal of vaccines, as we were the arsenal of democracy

during world war ii. we've already shifted nearly 160 million doses to other countries . america's donations of a half billion pfizer vaccine that i announced in june have already begun to shift. today, i am announcing another commitment. the u.s. is buying another half billion doses of pfizer to donate to low and middle income countries around the world. this is another half billion doses will all be shifted by this time next year. it brings our total commitment of donated vaccines to over 1.1 billion vaccines to be donated. for every one shot we have administered in america, we have now committed three shots to the rest of the world. host: kate elder, tell our

viewers where these vaccines are needed. guest: the inequity that we see in vaccine access is dire. here in the u.s., we have about 55% vaccination coverage. in africa, less than 4% is vaccinated. why the discrepancy between the wealthiest countries that have accumulated mass amounts of vaccines and poor countries that have been begging vaccines and are really in the lurch? when you consider that there about 6 billion doses of covid vaccine administered worldwide so far, yet only 2% have gone to africa. there are some regions that have been left behind in the promise

of global vaccine equity. the doses pledge by president biden are needed. it is a step in the right direction when you consider how many doses are needed for evolving countries, but we need to go further. we need a more comprehensive plan. we need a much more specific target and a lot of accountability. host: who is responsible for that? guest: leaders of the most wealthy countries have made a lot of lofty promises. president biden's announcement yesterday was a step in the right direction. in june, the g7 met and made tremendous pledges -- about a billion doses. so far, the u.n. says only about 15% of those doses have materialized. you can government, which is stepping behind the u.s., has only delivered 7% of their

pledges -- the u.k. government. high income countries are waiting possible decisions around the booster. the wealthiest countries need to make drastic and significant changes and be held accountable. host: i want to invite our viewers to join in. phone numbers are on your screen. we have divided them regionally. as you call in, these statistics. this is from bloomberg. 6 million doses have been administered across 184 countries. the highest income countries are vaccinated at 20 times faster than the lowest income countries. kate elder, what is the impact? what is happening in africa when

4% of the population is vaccinated? guest: you see the consequences of not being able to prevent covid. covid is a largely preventable disease because of these vaccines. but when you don't have access, what you have is tremendous suffering. we have spikes in illness and death, africa has undergone a third wave of the pandemic, might be headed into a fourth. in addition to the onus and death -- illness and death is the toll it takes on the medical system. we are talking about areas of the world where the ability to cope with that of coal needs are not as relatively easy as in the united states -- cope with medi cal needs. they do not have enough oxygen,

are not able to cope with the volume of cases that they are seeing. in addition to the immediate public health consequences -- it is now become common adage that covid anywhere is covid everywhere --, but that it really is the truth when you think about viruses. we are now talking about the delta virus and seeing what it is doing across the world. these variants, and proliferate because we do not have enough immunity. we give the virus space to mutate, stretch its arms. variants will continue to rise and proliferate if we do not have enough of the world vaccinated. an entire blank of who's michigan was to deliver vaccine from the beginning. unfortunately, the wealthiest countries had a different plan,

to prioritize their population first and not make or systemic changes. that is what we are staying in places like africa. host: we are talking with kate elder of doctors without borders. richard, montreal. caller: good morning. i am speaking to several nurses who work in icus across the u.s. and if in canada. they are witnessing horrific injuries from the vaccines. why is this being covered up? why would i vaccinate my family, especially my young children, and i know people are getting heart damage from this vaccine? a lot of people are fed up with people covering this up. we never see these people on tv, the families, we only see somebody dying of covid. a lot of times, they were fully vaccinated.

they did not die from covid but from the vaccine. guest: thank you for sharing your experience. the truth of the matter is that right now, people who are ending up in hospitals with covid are by and large the people who have not been vaccinated. people are vaccinated are significantly more protected. it is all documented in medical journals. there are certain things that the community calls adverse events following immunization. there are always going to be a small, negligible amount of an expected consequences due to vaccine. that is just the nature of developing new medical tools, especially medical tools that have expedited review. however, with 6 billion doses administered worldwide, we are accumulating a tremendous amount

of data on the safety of these vaccines. safety was recently demonstrated by the united states fda in giving full approval to the pfizer vaccine. the challenge of misinformation and vaccine haven't hesitancy that stem from misinformation -- in the u.s., having only 55% of the population vaccinated, we are seeing the consequences. medical practitioners are seeing the consequences of that low immunization coverage. want to acknowledge concerns about new medical technologies. i want to encourage people to read the scientific data and look at who is a landing in hospitals from covid. it is by and large people who are not vaccinated. host: larry, ohio. caller: if we have given away

1.1 billion doses, do the taxpayers agree? only people who are making money from this is the people making the vaccines. $1 a vaccine, that is $1.1 billion following on the taxpayer. on top of open borders, we just allow everybody in with no vaccination. none of these vaccinations, including letting them across the border. host: let us get to his point about the cost to taxpayers. what is the role of manufacturers in providing vaccines to low income countries? guest: i want to pull something out of what larry just said in terms of the tremendous public investment.

larry raised a very good point in terms of taxpayer money that have gone into developing these vaccines and that is being used to donate doses abroad. yes, the u.s. government has spent more than $10 billion financing the pharmaceutical industry to develop these vaccines and produce doses domestically. there is a very important point. in making tremendous investments, we as the community should be getting more for that investment. right now, we are still at the whim of pharmaceutical corporations that are deciding what prices they want to set and who they are selling to first. being under that system is a system that has gone on for long time. you see the consequences. consequences are that pharmaceutical corporations are going to sell to the highest

paying customer first. as white here in the u.s., we are virtually awash in vaccines. -- that is why here in the u.s., we are virtually awash in vaccines. canada has halted deliveries because they have so much access. right now, president biden's plan yesterday should've gone further to call in public ownership of vaccines. we need to be able to diversify it where manufacturing is happening. those who have been left behind -- africa, other areas with less-developed countries, they do not have the ability right now to make covid vaccine domestically, but they want it. they do have some industry and have been begging for technology. of course, pharmaceutical

corporations are not willingly sharing their technology and their know-how. the world health organization has organized something called a technology transfer. it recently developed something called the mrna covid vaccine hub in africa. they have invited manufacturers to participate but are not seen that. the president and many european leaders put so much public money into the development of these vaccines they should be insisting that pharmaceutical corporations share with other places. this is not only important for this pandemic. of course, we're talking about covid, but isn't everybody concerned we will face similar health issues and pandemics in the future? in order to be better prepared, we need to make sure that we diversify manufacturing and that we listen to regions that are

left behind and are begging to be self-sufficient. that would be a bold plan -- pushing pharmaceutical companies, using the leverage of the u.s. government to push pfizer and moderna to share their technologies. host: the new york times, pressure grows on u.s. companies to share technology. who is putting the pressure on these companies? guest: we do not see the pressure, unfortunately, by government. there has been a tremendous rise from civil society, other political leaders, as well, but this needs to be done by the highest level of government. companies are feeling some of the pressure, but that is not going to deliver anything to the developing world unless you have the leader in chief here and in europe insisting that these companies share their publicly funded technologies. they are not going to do it on

their own. they do not want to foster competition. he wanted to continue raking in the billions of dollars they have been making from covid vaccines. there are tools that the administration could use. the united states government is co-owner of the moderna vaccine. they could be sharing that information right now with other parts of the world that can make it. we've not seen that. we did not see that yesterday in any meaningful way. host: terry, wisconsin. guest: -- caller: it is very upsetting that we have had so many vaccines in this country expire and used when so many people in the world are desperate for the vaccine, but my point -- i think president biden, what did he pledge?

500 million vaccines with no political strings attached? that sounds like the right thing to do, but my question is what sort of safeguards can be put into place to ensure that those vaccines actually get offered to and made available to the people in those countries versus, for example, a rogue government instead selling those vaccines to other countries and pocketing the profits? is it even possible to enforce such safeguards? guest: i want to share with you the sadness, for lack of a better word, for watching doses expire when they are so desperately needed in low income countries. i share that sadness and

frustration and that rage. we have an excess of riches here. we are literally destroying vaccines when people around the world are begging for doses. thank you for noting that. in terms of accountability and how can you make government accountable, either governments have pledged doses. following the g7 in june, only 15% of those pledges have materialized. making sure the recipient governments are using them. this is really the role of civil society and local institutions. the world health organization has been doing commendable job. they have been calling for vaccine equity since the beginning. they have been providing support to regions and countries

directly to prepare for vaccines when they are available. of course, vaccines do not deliver themselves. you need an infrastructure. since the founding of our organization, we've been doing massive vaccination campaigns. we know how to deliver vaccines. we know how to save logistical capacity. being that all the other vaccines still need to be delivered, we have to build additional infrastructure in these places. there needs to be financing to do it. i want to acknowledge president biden's commitment yesterday to two different streams to prepare for covid receipts. in terms of accountability, so far, there has not been reports of vaccines being resold on secondary markets, which is encouraging. who is following these things

very closely. organizations like msf are following this, too. so far, the doses that are arriving are going to the people that they are intended to go to. this is near and dear to msf. there is a group always left out of the health care system, the most marginalized people. there has been something called humanitarian efforts. covax. it was founded just to enable organizations like msf, other ngos, to access a portion of covid vaccines and you set for the most marginalized people that may be left out of the system. now many governments that have political dynamics within not be recognizing a certain portion of the population. right now, that humanitarian buffer has not been able to operationalize because of issues around viability that

pharmaceutical corporations are insisting. i also want to use this moment to say that companies like pfizer, darren out, others should waive the legal part that is preventing us -- moderna. the doses -- we have to make sure that the doses that are donated are going to the intended recipients. thankfully, they are, but we have to keep watching that. [indiscernible] ed -- host: ed, arlington with the text. can you talk about the world health organization? any truth to being cozy with china? caller: i do not want to comment on that too much. but i do want to say is there has been tremendous leadership in the world health organization . from the gecko, who put out a global allocation framework for

covid vaccines. this is before covid vaccines were even available. there was a framework was quickly put together by who which outlined if we are going to optimize public health, this is the way we need to distribute vaccines. it said that every country around the world needed to achieve 20% coverage at the beginning. we needed to vaccinate countries at the same pace for extending it to other populations. this, if it had been operationalized, dutch operationalized by high income countries --, it would've put us in a much better place than we are right now. that was something led by who. who is the global watcher of health. have all the experts, epidemiologists. they are doing a tremendous job burning the candle at both ends.

many people in msf work closely with people at who. host: jeff, illinois. caller: two questions. do you have a benchmark for the survival rate of covid in third world countries? do you, doctors without borders, have you used the chinese vaccine in other countries? caller: i am not going to be able to answer the first part of your question in terms of a benchmark for the survival rate of people with covid in developing countries. i'm sure we can follow up afterward and i contract on the information. in terms of your second question on -- has msf used vaccines produced in china, we have not

bought vaccine ourselves. i want to make that clear. what we have been doing in terms of distributing covid vaccines is that when governments that purport to deliver health care, when they have vaccines and request our support, we have been helping. that is one spectrum of what we do. helping to register people for vaccination, helping to do the logistics around vaccination, administering the vaccines, dealing with data, we have run the gamut on that, but we have not bought vaccine ourselves. if we are working in a country where the government has decided to use a chinese vaccine, the vaccine has received who prequalification. it means who standards, then we will support the government.

host: david, los angeles. caller: thank you to mrs. elder. she has pointed out something that i pray is not lost on the audience. that is that we are co-financers of these vaccines. from the sounds of things, we have little say as to how they are going to be distributed. that pharmaceutical companies -- the pharmaceutical companies have, as a result of the financing that the american public is put in, come away with no say so. this seems to be the state of

affairs for pharmaceutical companies. we develop these products but we have to send people to canada to get affordable medicine. am going to say this and then i will be quiet. those anti-vaxxers, if they really wanted to have an issue as to why --, this is why we cannot trust the pharmaceutical companies, because they just rush over us economically as co-financers of all these products, including these vaccines. guest: david, you said it so eloquently. thank you for calling. we, the american taxpayers, have largely paid to research and development around covid vaccines. it is not a new story. the u.s. government is the largest financer of and research and development worldwide.

the question is what we as americans and the world getting? david put it very directly. we need to get more. we should be adding these vaccines. places around the world that have been neglected and left behind in the race for covid vaccines should not be. the u.s. government, european governments to be assisting with that technology, that publicly funded technology so that future pandemics do not see same devastating inequities of sharing the fruits of medical innovation that we are seeing. host: larry, minnesota. caller: there was a large population of republicans who refuse to be vaccinated, putting her children at risk. currently, we are losing about 1500 a day to covid. host: michael, miami.

caller: we are -- a problem with the governor. i heard on ms nbc, hank will be prosecuting us for crimes against humanity on the basis of how the laws and antiscience is being pushed on us, basically using children in the u.s. as smallpox blankets to spread the disease, pushing what they call natural community. it is a eugenic bias endemic to countries, especially in the 1860's, the first libertarians pushed this idea of evolution by twos and fall, the idea being that natural immunity would call

the herd -- cull the herd. i am wondering if you've seen this in countries that have that tendency? we are suffering with governor desantis. he has anti-vaccine protocols in place. caller: there is clearly a role for public health law. you're hitting on such important thing domestically. as we tracked at the beginning of the pandemic, different countries approaches to how they were going to cope. there is a role for public health law. you hitting on the point around human rights violations. you reference the hag. i would encourage everybody to think about that. i would encourage everybody to reflect on that. at what point, is this a violation for everybody's rights. we have tools that make covid

largely preventable. for us in the u.s., but for people in the developing world that have been left behind. i want to do a plug for another ngo's report. and she -- amnesty put out a report looking at this from a human rights perspective. it is fascinating, especially the role pharmaceutical corporations in terms of their human rights responsibilities. host: kate elder with doctors without borders. you can go to the website for more information. we appreciate the conversation. guest: thanks. host: when we come back, we will open up the phone lines for public forum. we can continue to talk about the covid pandemic and the spending debate. any public policy issue on your mind. there are the numbers on your screen. start dialing in. we will be right back.

♪

host: we are back in open forum. you can call in and let us know what is on your mind, what are the policy issues important to you? yesterday, on capitol hill, homeland security secretary testified about haitian migrants reaching texas. here is a headline from usa today -- president biden's ambassador to haiti resigns over inhumane treatment of haitian migrants. the dhs secretary addressed the

recent photos of border patrol agents mistreating the haitian migrants. here is what he had to say. >> i want to address the images that emanated from del rio, texas over the last several days and correctly and it necessarily work met with our nation's --, because they do not reflect who we are, nor do they reflect who the united states customs and border protection is. i want to share with you the fact that we are addressing this with tremendous speed and tremendous force. i have ordered an investigation to be conducted of the events that are captured in those images. the office of professional responsibilities leaders are conducting the investigation. we have insured -- ensured that

individuals under investigation are not conducting law enforcement duties to interact with like -- with migrants but only administrative duties. i have informed our office of inspector general. the facts will drive the actions that we take. we needed to conduct this investigation thoroughly but quickly. it will be completed in days and not weeks. i wanted to assure this committee of that fact. host: the homeland security secretary testifying yesterday. the headline latin american migration, once limited to a few countries, turns into a mass exodus. from there reporting, a far

broader mix of nationalities is turning up at the border than in the past. for decades, most crossers weren't mexican men. in recent families, families from guatemala, honduras, el salvador. suddenly, ecuadorians, brazilians, nicaraguans, vendors whalen's, haitians, cubans are turning up by the hundreds of thousands. a trend that has accelerated sharply in these past six months. from october 2020 through august, at nearly 300,000 migrants were encountered at the border. a fifth of all crossings for all of 2020 when the pandemic slowed the flow of migrants, this increased. more in the wall street journal. also this story from the washington times. homeland security flipped haitian policies. there headline says biting

supporters disappointed in deportations. the homeland security secretary just last month declared haiti a wreck of a country, facing severe food shortages, lousy health care, political instability. things are so bad he said that a hundred thousand haitians who made it to the u.s. by the end of july could get deportation amnesty. now he is eager to send haitians back to their country. hundreds of people have been flown directly to port-au-prince. it is not is clear what has changed, other than embarrassment of a migrant camp of haitians springing up and surging to more than 50,000 people late last week. it is not clear how many have been departed. sources told that washington times that most are being processed and released. bryan, virginia, independent.

phones this morning open form. what is on your mind? caller: i wanted to talk about these people that refuse to get vaccinated. those people are not going to listen to president biden, not going to listen to dr. fauci. who they will listen to are these anti-vaxxers that thought the vaccine -- did not get the vaccine, caught covid, and there husband, wife, children passed away. they need to put on public service announcements that featured these people. every once in a while, you will see it on the news, where, i did not get the vaccine, now i am on a respirator. it is sad. but they are not going to listen to politicians. host: dan, virginia, republican. caller: good morning. about those that are refusing

covid vaccines, is not all vaccines, but there are some of the prior guest said that is troubling for those that have issues with vaccine. this is a great science experiment. hate to say that because people died, but to say that nations that it only vaccinated 4% of the populations versus the u.s. 55%, that is data. 4% nations, there should be a lot of debt. in the united states, with 45% unvaccinated, did the death rate change? are we on a high rate of death? if there be some sort of cost,

the taxpayers invested $10 million, but if there is a cost associated with, you got it today, it is five dollars, in three months, it is $10, it gives you a payment suspense. that has a big effect. vaccine injury. i know more people who have gotten sick after the vaccine, but you are censoring the data. are these people dying from covid those that received the vaccine and died within two weeks? is that a vaccine injury or they day of covid? how does it get categorized? these are the things going on. host: on the economy, this is from cnbc, the weekly jobless claims that totaled351,000

--worse than expected. lynn, in a tweet, i would like to know what biden should do about all these people at the border? send them back to haiti? nope, the media will be the mop. let them come in? nope, because they will beat him up. patsy. caller: i just wanted to say that there was a gentleman on earlier. i felt bad, because she did not answer the question. i am vaccinated. i believe in the vaccine. i know different people who have experienced a lot of different issues. however, this gentleman asked, we are all getting vaccinated, which is great, but he asked a good question -- the migrants

are not getting vaccinated. that is covered up by the government. it is really sad. the measles are back. she should have known. he asked about other nations, nations that have issues that do not have the care we have here. she did not have the information on what the ratio of people getting set are. i do not believe it. i think they know and they will not tell us. host: roger, michigan, republican. caller: i am calling about the gentleman -- the young lady who just spoke. i am unvaccinated, because i have a good immune system. as well as you being a woman, you know how you see it as your body and your choice, while this is my body and my choice.

if i choose not to get vaccinated, that is my personal medical reason. injections, injections, injections do not work. host: this headline from the hill, vaccinations will be required for u.s. athletes at the winter olympics. james, the louisiana, democratic caller. caller: my thing is that we have people in this country who have gone along with the lies of donald trump. these people will be called traitors back in the day, trying to overturn the government. i want to know why nothing is being done to donald trump with all the information coming out -- donald trump and all those people in congress trying to overturn the government. i thought no one was above the

law, but apparently these people that are trying to make these lies, there seem to be no laws to stop them. that don't make sense. host: james, st. louis, independent. caller: good morning. i keep hearing people claiming from all around the world are going for borders, coming in illegally. i do not believe it. how can they say that with a straight face? host: your point? caller: all biden was supposed to have done was reverse policies set up by trump with illegal border crossings. but people keep claiming that

may inspire people even from eastern europe to come to our south border. i do not understand -- what is that all about? are they wrong? host: the debate in washington over whether or not to raise the debt ceiling and avoid a default on their debt continues. the house passed a provision that would suspend the debt and find the government at current levels through december. the senate is expected to vote early next week. senate republicans have sent they will not vote with democrats. need 60 votes. that senate reserve chair warned yesterday about the impact of defaulting on our dance. >> it is important that the debt ceiling be raised so the u.s. can pay its bills. it is critically important. failure to do that is something

that could result in severe damage to the economy and financial governments. it is not something we should contemplate. i am not going to comment on particular tactics. i am just going to say that we can all agree that the u.s. should not default on any of its obligations, should pay them as due. no one should assume that the fed or anyone else can protect the markets in the event of a failure to make sure that we do pay those debts. host: joe, alabama, republican. caller: i am -- a few callers ago. trump stealing -- trying to do

whatever he did. there is something happening in arizona tomorrow. you have heard of the recounts, audit. they are going to be giving it their final report tomorrow at 1:00 arizona time, which will be 4:00 eastern time. a full report was in monday. they have reviewed it to make sure all the i's are dotted and the t's are processed. for everybody in media who says there is no evidence of voter fraud, you will see it tomorrow. host: harry, florida,

independent. caller: as far as the election was concerned, it seems like 70 million ballots were sent out to the public. the integrity of the election was definitely questioned, but the election is over. the pfizer and moderna situation. i do not understand why people are putting the pharmaceutical companies down. where would we be without those two companies? operation warp speed did not hurt either. host: jerry, kentucky, republican. caller: my question is with the pandemic, why can't all the countries get together and go

after china and make them pay for all of the vaccines that are being required? plus, if we are going to send money to countries, we should help our country first. any supplies, food, water, first-aid stuff. we should send that. if we're going to give money, people i to be able to vote on that. host: jim, texas, republican. caller: i do not know where to start. i have a background as a scientist. i have conducted several vaccine -- i met a fellow texan who set of border patrol -- these are horses, other than the fabulous all-terrain vehicle. i do not know what people expect.

these horses are trained just like cutting calves. these horses depend -- this tells the horse what to do. this is the target of the sword movement. moving cattle, whatever. on the vaccine, anybody in this country who has wanted a vaccine has -- and they can get it, no problem. everybody else, you are just making everybody talk about. we are hoarding vaccine. all around the world, this vaccine could be sent out. i did not know what the politics of all this is, but just sent it out. we have a regulatory nightmare about how to send about it even storage conditions on these vaccines, pfizer has to be stored in alter cold conditions.

we do not know that all the pfizer was willing to validate was his condition. it costs a lot of money to prove these conditions. these are all regulatory hurdles that do not have a good return. host: yesterday, president biden huddled for nearly five hours in a series of meetings with members of his own party who are in disagreement about how to move forward on the spending proposal. that is a bipartisan infrastructure plan, along with that $3.5 trillion at reconciliation bill. the headline on msn bc.com. yesterday, the secretary was asked about biden's falling poll

numbers and what it means for his agenda? >> the president campaigned on competence and that he could make moshing -- washington work and that he would revitalize alliances. now americans axing headlines about democrats divided. france is furious at the u.s.. afghanistan. what should americans make of that? >> let me take each of those issues. the president just had a friendly phone call with the president of france where they agreed to meet in october and continue close consultations. >> that was a failure, right? that he should have communicated better. >> in terms of the level of concern, acknowledging there could be a closer coordination, i did not think that is the height of concern with the american people. anyone concerned with our relationship with friends and

rest assured there was a friendly phone call. on the second piece, this is a messy, sausage making process. what americans should be encouraged by is the president isn't bringing people with a range of viewpoints on big, important packages that are going to make their lives better here to the white house to have a discussion about it -- the president is bringing people. people should be encouraged by that. the president is going to be deeply engaged with getting bills across the finish line. >> why do you think there recent poll is that 43% now approve? what has changed? >> the country has gone through a lot. people are still under the threat of covid. that is concerning to a lot of people.

even as people approve of the president's handling of covid, that is still impacting people. there is a great deal of anxiety, but our objective is to keep pushing his agenda forward and keep aching their lives that are. host: the press secretary for the president yesterday. the president met with law makers and stories for nearly five hours. erica covers capitol hill reporting that mitch mcconnell shoots down an idea, democrats do not have time to raise the debt ceiling via reconciliation. estimates could take a little more than a week for the senate to amend the reconciliation. caller: talking about the

migrant problem, i hope everybody is taking a good look at america, because, in my opinion, this country is collapsing. before we know it, we will not recognize what america was. got a congress that cannot do nothing. they cannot even pass the civil rights bill. you've got people that invaded the house and get a slap on the wrist. to me, it is treason what they did, because they were okaying the election and their whole purpose was to stop that. you've got every country south of the border coming up here unregulated. when they try to regulate, they go up in arms against the border patrol agents. the guy, what he said is absolutely true about the horses. as far as across -- overseas, the american military in afghanistan looks like an unorganized joke.

when you've got your enemy doing security for you, we will not even get to the economy being propped up by the state with interest rates. that is why they will not reason. as soon as everything comes into play, it is going to be a mass. i don't see where there is anything we can do, because both republicans and democrats, they are not interested in trying to save anything of what we remember and fought to make america for us. host: jacqueline, independent, texted to say i believe the least we can do is allow haitians to come in. we did not recognize haiti for the first several decades of their existence and we ceased to trade with them because of their successful trade revolution. why continue to beat them down? also news on the police reform

front from political. a bipartisan group, that includes karen bass, tim scott, cory booker, saying that negotiations have stalled. negotiators head and tried to focus on the slimmed-down version of the legislation without qualified immunity, but even that proved too difficult. bernie, kentucky, democratic color. caller: there are so many difficult situations with afghanistan and the pandemic. i wish people would remember there is a lot of people out there working for very little credit to try and make things better. we need to remember and have not so much meanness. there are so -- are people out there working, trying to do a

good job. on constitution day, john was hosting the program. that was one of the best programs you had for a long time, because it made me pull out the constitution and look up these amendments. the topic was your favorite amendments. i had to think of, what was my favorite amendment? please don't ask me. host: glad you enjoyed it. that is nice to hear. mike, indiana, republican. caller: i am calling in about the vaccine mandates. i get the impression that way they're pushing it is that it is like oxycontin. oxycontin comes out, -- these vaccines are not all they are cracked up to be. they're talking about cough or shouts at the end of the year.

i think they're trying to make a lot of money off of this myself. how would you like to take a vaccine that only works halfway, like the polio vaccine? host: is not going to work. host:mike, are you vaccinated? caller: i was thinking about it, but i have a buddy, he got a second shot, wound up in the hospital. that worries me. i was going to, but, like i said, i think they're just pushing this for the money. we know what congress is -- insider trading and all of that. host: speaking of congress, the house was about to gavel in for their session. thank you all for watching. we'll be back tomorrow morning, seven :00 a.m. eastern time. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicaprg