lipson discusses job training in the u.s. all that and your calls, texts, tweets on washington journal. ♪ host: good morning and welcome to washington journal. the u.s. government has made covid-19 booster shots available to the american people in its continuing fight against the coronavirus pandemic. more than 60 million people will become eligible for a booster shot in the next few months. even as health officials try to convince millions more to get their first vaccine shot. our question for you this morning, are you going to get your booster shot? what will it take for you to get your first vaccine shot? we want to know what is your

experience with covid-19. we will open up special lines. if you have already been vaccinated, having your first, second or a booster shot, we want to hear from you. your number will be (202) 748-8000. if you have not gotten the vaccine, we want to know why and what it will take for you to get vaccinated. your number will be (202) 748-8001. keep in mind you can always text us at (202) 748-8003. we are always reading on social media, on facebook, on twitter, and you can follow us on instagram. the u.s. government decided on friday to make booster shots available to the american people. the washington post has a quick story about it this morning.

after a month of dramatic twists and turns more suited to a soap opera than a health bureaucracy, the white house got much of what it hoped for. access to pfizer beyond tech booster shots for most adults at least six month after completing the standard regiment. the messy process sparked massive confusion about the booster program and may distract from efforts to get first shots to the unvaccinated. in a statement issued thursday, the centers for disease control recommended exercise for everyone 65 and older, as well as those 50 and older with underlying medical conditions such as diabetes. they also said extra shots may be considered for younger people with medical conditions and for those whose jobs or living situations put them at risk for serious cases of covid-19, the illness caused by the coronavirus.

president biden held a news conference yesterday about covid and booster shots. he urged those available for the pfizer booster shot -- eligible for the pfizer shot to get their shot. [video] pres. biden: we took a key step protecting vaccinated with booster shots, which are top -- our top doctors believes provides the highest level of protection to date. the fda, the centers for disease control and prevention, the cdc, they completed their independent scientific review. based on that review, the majority of americans who are fully vaccinated with the pfizer vaccine are now able to proceed with a booster shot six months after they have received their second shot. six months after they received the second shot, you are eligible. those eligible include, in addition to meeting the required

six months after the second shot, those people that are 65 years or older, adults 18 and over with certain underlying health conditions like diabetes and obesity, and those who are at increased risk of covid-19 because of where they work or where they live, like health-care workers, teachers, grocery store workers. that group makes up 60 million americans who are now eligible for a booster six months after their second shot. up to 20 million who will receive the earlier pfizer shot at least six month ago are eligible today. those folks are eligible now. now. i have made clear all along the decision of which booster shot to give, one to start the shot, and who will get them is left to the scientists and doctors. that is what happened here.

while we waited and prepared, we bought enough booster shots and states and pharmacies, doctors offices and community health centers have been preparing to get shots in arms for a while. like your first and second shot, the booster shot is free and easily accessible. booster shots will be available in 80,000 locations, including over 40,000 pharmacies nationwide. host: our question this morning, what has been your experience with covid-19? let's go to the phone lines and start with amy from richmond, virginia. good morning. caller: hello. can you hear me? host: go ahead, amy. caller: i had covid-19 back in november of 2020. i was not going to get vaccinated because a lot of scientists said natural immunity

was good enough and you did not need a vaccine. although the cdc was recommending everybody, whether you have had it or not should get two vaccines if you getting moderna or pfizer. i got a vaccine in june because i thought of the delta variant being more purulent -- vera lent -- virulent. i was going to get one shot. that was going to boost your immunity more than anyone who has not had covid but had two shots. i researched it a lot. they talked about cross immunity, where people who have had covid do have natural immunity but because the virus centers on the respiratory system that they might have have

quite as much immunity if they did with one shot. i did get one shot. supposedly i have really good immunity now and it will not be getting any other shots. host: you don't plan to get the booster shot? caller: correct. i don't plan to get anymore covid-19 shot because, according to some scientists, if you have had covid-19 and if you get one shot of pfizer and moderna after five or six months, your immunity is really high. not only to the delta variant but the any other variants that my come along. host: how do you decide which scientists to listen to? sometimes we hear different things from different people. you can find all kind of crazy information on the internet. how do you decide who to listen to? caller: i watched c-span

everyday. i saw one scientist from johns hopkins. he was one of the only scientist i have seen you talked about natural immunity. the cdc never talks about it. he said the cdc has gone about it all wrong and gathering their data. -- in gathering their data. they were not giving any information or anything about natural immunity. natural immunity is good. according to studies done in israel, it might be really good even if you don't get vaccinated. host: let's talk to donald from texas. good morning. caller: i am calling about the policy of the vaccinated and unvaccinated. it seems to change from

day-to-day and dr. to dr. -- doctor to doctor. i have less confidence in our government. a trust problem with what they say. i watched the president on tv while he's talking. like with afghanistan and the border, he says one thing and you can watch the opposite on tv. i'm a veteran. i served in vietnam. i have a few hundred of us medics within three months, 104 were dead. a combat medic. the veterans refusing to take a vaccine, that is their choice. if they want to separate, there is no problem. but to get them a dishonorable discharge, anything other

than honorable discharge because of a choice they make is wrong. host: when he went into the military did they make you take vaccines when you joined? caller: yes. host: did you have a choice? caller: no. host: what was the procedure like then if he told the military you did not want to take the vaccines? what what they have done back then? caller: hi don't know. i am talking about today. back then i believed everything our government told me. back then you believed a lot of things. i was drafted. i got -- i had childhood moms and have nerve loss -- mumps and nerve loss. i failed seven physicals. the last one the doctor had it so high the headphones, went

back down to the draft office. they said take don home. this time they said we will do more tests. i'm in the army. i called home. my mother said, where are you at? i'm in the army. but you can't hear. they are processing my papers. they gave me a test in basic. ok, i will get you out. long story short, i go back home on leave. i come back to training. they lost my papers. i get to vietnam and they give me another test. yeah, you can't hear. it will take 365 days to process your papers. host: you are in texas. a lot of people have covid-19.

do you know anyone who has been suffering from covid-19 or have you lost any friends to covid-19? caller: yes. host: you still think it is worth not taking the vaccination? caller: i thought this country was able to -- can you hear me? host: go ahead. caller: i thought this country was freedom of choice and all. i watched muhammad ali failed to go in on exemption and take the consequences. let people take the consequences. but this honorable discharge is wrong. they are not putting up anything about alternative treatments? therapeutics. host: james from greensboro, north caroline. good morning. caller: top of the morning to

you. good morning america. i got my wife and i both got our primary pfizer injection at the end of february. the second one around the 11th or 12th of march. we are scheduled here in greensboro to get our booster shots on the 12 of october. i might mention this everyone scared of a needle. the needle pfizer has on their surettes is so narrow you don't even feel the injection. i was astounded with that. i don't like to see myself get injected. i turned my head and told the medical assistant, let me know when you're going to do it. she says i already have. there was a little bit of swelling but it did not amount to anything. it was gone and 18 to 24 hours.

there was no swelling or anything with the second shot. the third shot remains to be seen. i might mention this. i'm an old radio reporter. i have been retired for many years. i am 84 years old. i have kept in contact with some of the folks and their children and grandchildren that also are in broadcasting, telecasting and so on in various capacities. there is a rumor circulating, and i think it is probably true, that if the taxpayers pay for your injection and pay for the cost of the injection, why should the insurance companies and the aha's cover people who refuse the injections and then get coronavirus or the delta variant?

unless they have an affidavit from a physician or medical group that says they have a temporary or permanent disability and can't take the injection, such as tuberculosis or pneumonia. pneumonia would be temporary. if that happens, of course my sources are from hospitals. the hospitals are upset because under present law they have to admit anyone that comes to the emergency room. host: let's go to john calling from washington. good morning. caller: i am a vietnam vet, too. i don't exactly have a lot of trust in the government since the gulf of tonkin.

agent orange. now they are admitting the depleted uranium was a problem. what i would like to know is that with the johnson & johnson vaccine i think the government kinda got to where they were discouraging that when they first came up with it, the blood clot deal. later on when they gave up on that, johnson & johnson, as far as i can see, never got any real good press. was there ever anything else along with the johnson & johnson vaccine -- i should have wrote

this down. host: let me ask you this question. do you plan to get vaccinated? do you plan to get the booster shot? caller: well, like i said, as far as the johnson & johnson, i have not heard anything bad about it other than what was originally on it. i am in no hurry to get the shot. the vaccine. deal the way i'm going to get the vaccine is if i take the johnson & johnson. host: is it because the johnson & johnson is only one shot instead of two? is that what your hesitancy is? caller: being is silly but that's really a vaccine -- it is the only one that is a vaccine. host: have you talked to your doctor about it but are you

getting your information from the television and internet? caller: not over the internet. i just get it off of c-span andnhk new -- nhk news out of japan and out of canada. host: what would it take for you to decide to get the johnson & johnson shot? caller: i did not catch that last part. host: what would it take you to convince you to get even the johnson & johnson shot, if not one of the others? caller: if i don't hear anything. i'm trying to find out -- the question i asked was if there was anything else with the johnson & johnson, which i think they are still being ignored. if there is nothing else wrong with it, i might consider it. if i don't hear anything else

about it, more than likely i'm not going to get it. host: michael calling from stanford, connecticut. good morning. caller: good morning, jesse. back in january i was feeling a little sick. my wife and i went down to the park around the corner to get tested. we got the results back. she came back negative. i came back positive. we are in the same house all the time. neither one of us was wearing a mask. if it is so contagious, how did i get it and she never got it? i went for the whole 10 days of having it. i felt pretty bad for a little while. i got to the top of the stairs and i cannot catch my breath, which was kind of scary. compared to these people with tubes down their throats trying to breathe, this was pretty tough.

i guess in february i got the first shot. i got pfizer. she works for a school system. they all got the johnson & johnson. she got kind of sick the next day from that. mine was no problem at all. i got the second shot in april. it felt like the woman pulled the needle out sideways. other than that there was no problem at all. i never had side effects. host: do you plan to get a booster shot? caller: that is not for another couple of months, because you have to wait six months. i don't know. i might. i am feeling pretty good about where i'm at right now. these people that don't want to get it at all and they think there's something in it, that is kind of nuts. you come up with trump made it.

ok. what is he doing? he is tracking you? who is tracking you? host: let's talk to dan from georgetown, massachusetts. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for having me on. what i'm concerned about is from the very beginning there was more like a misinformation campaign we got from people we should trust to tell us the truth, especially in a pandemic. specifically what i'm talking about is i looked at south korea and how they were dealing with covid before it came on their shores. when they were testing people and they found someone with a positive covid, they would give them two small pills of

hydroxychloroquine, with a small amount of zinc. that completely wiped out the virus. host: where did you get that information from? caller: public information. host:host: off the internet? off a television station? caller: good god. when you say off the internet it does not apply everybody is lying. this is the country of south korea. are you familiar with south korea? the country of south korea used this process to deal with covid. it was extremely successful. i got on the phone with the cdc, fda, my senator, governors, everybody else. they completely ignored therapeutics that are effective. hydroxychloroquine kills the virus. it's an extremely safe, world health organization approved

drug. host: what are you doing to make sure you don't get covid? are you taking this regiment as well or do you plan to get a vaccine? caller: i had covid very early on. the natural immunity to covid is 20 to 30 times more effective than any of the vaccines. that is a fact. it is just like chickenpox. we have been misled by our government and our institutions that should be telling us the truth. the people that call themselves doctors on tv lying about therapeutics. there should be credible liability for people that said these therapeutics don't work. making fun of people, saying they are taking the horse medicine. ivermectin won a nobel prize. he won it three years ago for

what an effective drug it is. host: president biden said people spreading disinformation about covid. here is what he had to say. [video] pres. biden: let me be clear. yes, we made incredible progress vaccinating americans. with over 182 million people fully vaccinated as of today. this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. it is caused by the fact that despite americans having unprecedented and successful vaccination program, despite the fact that for almost five months free vaccines have been available in 80,000 locations, we still have over 70 million americans who have failed to get a single shot. to make matters worse, there are elected officials actively working to undermine with false information the fight against covid-19.

this is totally unacceptable. the vast majority of americans are doing the right thing. three quarters of the eligible have gotten at least one shot. but one quarter has not gotten any. the country as large as ours, that is 25% minority can cause an awful lot of damage. and they are causing a lot of damage. they crowd our hospitals, overrunning emergency rooms and intensive care units. leaving no room for someone with a heart attack or a cancer operation needed to get the lifesaving care because of places where they would get that care are crowded. they are not available. the unvaccinated but our economy recovery at risk, causing unease around the kitchen table. i can imagine the conversations this morning. a lot of parents wondering what's going to happen.

those who have been vaccinated, what is going to happen? potentially slowing economic growth, costing jobs. the refusal has caused all of this. the refusal has cost all of us. host: let's see what's on our social media about their experiences with covid-19 and whether they plan to get the vaccine. here is one tweet that says getting the booster shot at 11:00 a.m. this morning. here is a post from facebook. got it at work. had a friend die, got the shot. another post says, the monster covid took my father and brother. second my love -- sickened my love. mask up. praise god know what i know has been affected. our society has a problem trusting professionals in many areas now. another post from facebook.

vaccine hesitant. a health risk in itself. only your shepherd can lead you. a text says, i served from 1979 to 1988. i received shot after shot. every child received shot after shot. take a vaccine, save a life. it may be yours or your children's life you save. we want to know what your experience is. have you gotten the coronavirus vaccine? do you plan to get the booster shot? georgia calling from gonzales, louisiana. good morning. caller: good morning, mr. jesse. how are you doing? i got the covid shot. i took the flu shot. i did my johnson & johnson.

it is very safe. astrazeneca is the one that got it mixed up with johnson & johnson. that is i get the blood clot. johnson & johnson vaccine is very good, because it takes t cells from human beings, over 30, 40 years. they cured the a bola virus vaccine. -- ebola virus vaccine. we are tearing ourselves apart with this bad behavior. host: do you plan to get the booster shot? caller: i'm 68 years old. i do not have underlying health problems right now. but the vaccine will protect me from getting the other type of coronaviruses out there right now. we need to take care of ourselves. we need to pray. host: let's talk to vicki from polasky, tennessee. good morning. caller: how are you?

host: go ahead, vicki. caller: well, i will not take the vaccine. i don't want the vaccine. host: do you know anyone who has had covid 19? have you had covid 19? caller: i have been tested and not come in contact. i'm a recluse. i don't go anywhere. i can't afford to go anywhere. i don't mix with people. i stay at home. host: what will it take for them to convince you that you would need the vaccine? caller: i don't take flu shots. the last one i got broke out in a rash. i don't take flu shots. i have a friend sitting in the hospital in another state who has had all the shots and the booster and she is dying from

covid. host: based on that experience you think it is not worth it for you to take the vaccine yourself? caller: look, host: visit on that, you think it is not worthy to take the vaccine yourself? caller: everybody in my family has taken the vaccine. i've been rub people who tested positive for covid-19. i have been a home for three weeks now. i have been tested when i thought i may have come in contact in one of the stores and

i don't have covid. i was not feeling very well, but i don't have covid. there are people like me who do not get around people. i don't see the reason and forcing someone to take a vaccine that they are not going to be in any danger of coming in contact. host: but you said you didn't get tested for covid-19 and you did not have it? guest: i was feeling bad -- caller: i was feeling bad. you have to go to the neighborhood stores. i don't go to walmart, i don't go where there are a lot of people. i don't need to government to tell me to keep safe. host: let's talk to tom from pennsylvania. good morning. caller: all of these colors are

proving the point which is that the vaccine and masks by the new cultural issue of the 21st century. when you have any issue like abortion and guns, neither side is going to give in ever. i have had covid twice, i got the vaccine. i have not had my smell since march 9. -- let me repeat that. if any sentence bears repeating, it is that. the people that took down our towers control a nation. they're not sitting around talking about the sniffles. they're not wearing masks and

talking about the sniffles. they are the next 9/11. this issue is never going to go away. neither side is going to give in and we need to concentrate on the real problems of this nation. host: good morning. caller: i am a retired physician. i want to talk about my own experience with complications of covid vaccination and also to point out to remind people of a study that appeared in the journal of american medical association 2017 that looked at

the history of medications that were fda approved between 2000 and 2010. one third of all medications that were approved were found to either have side effects that made them be recalled and discontinued or black box warnings were added. black box warnings are added when there is a complication that is life-threatening that was not recognized when the medication was initially approved. the median time for those to get recalled was 4.2 years. people have to realize that any medication they take that is new , in 4.2 years it is either going to be recalled or there is going to be a complication recognized as life-threatening.

i am looking right now out my window at my neighbor's house. i live in a small over 55 community and there are about 102 adults. on the same day my next-door neighbor and another neighbor were vaccinated. within 24 hours, both of them had strokes. my neighbor whose house i am looking at right now died. the other neighbor recovered and apparently is doing fairly well. i know two teenagers who were vaccinated. one is a college lacrosse player and he had defibrillation. the other was in the tobin's hospital for several weeks and is slowly recovering -- in the children's hospital for several weeks and is slowly recovering. there is a little boy who five days after the shot died.

host: you said you already retired physician. what are you doing to ensure you don't get covid-19? are you vaccinated? are you wearing masks? are you just to gingrich chances? -- are you just taking your chances? caller: we are not having full disclosure of the complications so i am uneasy about having further vaccinations. my wife is not vaccinated. i was in florida in february and i did get vaccinated because my wife is not in the best of health and i did not want to bring anything back to her. i'm not going to have the booster. i understand people's reluctance to not have the vaccination when there is not full disclosure.

certain information is being censored. unless we have confidence there is full disclosure, people are 100% justified in being labeled vaccine hesitant. host: what information do you think is being censored? caller: the people i mentioned who died. if the person who died from a stroke 24 hours after the vaccination and my neighbor. they were not reported as covid vaccine complications. host: how do you know they were not reported that way? caller: i know one person whose death was labeled -- this is my daughter's office manager

because she is a doctor as well. the debts affected -- the death certificate said cause of death unknown. host: let's go to steve from south carolina. caller: that was an interesting phone call. officials in the industry may be able to censor things but you cannot censor family members. i cannot believe family members come forward and say i had a family member die from the vaccine. i had both pfizer shots in march. i had a reaction to the second shot. i had pain up my arm into my neck and it became stiff for several weeks. i could not turn my head, i had to been over to make sure there was no traffic coming my way. i'm not objecting to the

vaccine, i am just telling you my personal experience. i will have the booster in november. my wife has had two family members pass away from covid. the second one who passed away attended a funeral of the first and it turned out that funeral service was a spreader. that is the assumption because several people came down with covid. that second cousin died two days ago. i want to say something about this thing going around in red states. people are not taking vaccines in the deep south. i'm from charleston. the main people i see on vaccinated or not wearing masks are african-american because they don't trust the government and i don't blame them. i remember reading a long time

ago that black people were used as guinea pigs. could you blame people for not taking it in that demographic? i don't blame them though i wish they would get the vaccine. host: the washington post has a map on its website showing where the concentration of hospitalization and vaccinations are in the united states. if you look at the map the washington post has available, you can see the highest concentrations of people who are vaccinated and spartanburg, south carolina has the highest vaccination rate -- has the highest hospitalization rate in the country. you can see in areas like waco, texas where you have 39% next knitted at 37 patients per 100

bed. the bakersfield, california area has the highest hospitalization rate outside of the self with 31 patients per 100 beds. the purple shadings are where the and hospitalization rates are worse. you can see in the midsouth area and down in florida and texas and in the pacific northwest route this is in today -- and in the pacific northwest. this is in today's washington post. president biden spoke about the dangers of not vaccinating and listening to misinformation. [video clip] pres. biden: i am moving forward vaccination requirements wherever i can. this will cover two thirds of all workers in america. i'm pleased to see institutions

placing their own vaccination mandates. i have had people call meet and thank me for setting the policies. it gives them the ability to move forward. united airlines, which required vaccines about seven weeks ago now has 97 percent of their employees vaccinated -- has 97 percent of their employees vaccinated -- 97% of their employees vaccinated. we are tracked to administer 24 million shots in september. please, do the right thing, and understand there is a lot of misinformation you are being fed out there. get two people you trust, people who have been vaccinated. ask them. get vaccinated but don't just

take it from me. listen to the voices of the unvaccinated americans lying in hospital beds taking their final breath saying if only i had gotten vaccinated. they're leaving behind husbands and wives, small children, people who adore them. people are dying and will die who don't have to die. it is not hyperbole. it is a tragedy. please do let this become your tragedy. -- please do not let this become your tragedy. get vaccinated. save your life and be lives around you. text "vaccine" to 438829 to find

a location now. host: here's a tweet that says, "i have been working throughout the pandemic. i work in a middle school." here is a text that says, "i have a large mass in my abdomen that it needs to be removed but the unvaccinated letting the hospitals are causing my surgeries to be postponed. whose rights are being violated now?" another text says, "yes i am vaccinated and since my doctor recommended the booster, i will get it." here is a tweet that says, "i've had two pfizer shots with no side effects. i am three weeks away from six months since getting vaccinated. i will get the booster the moment they let me." finally, here is a text that says, "i know three people that

contracted covid-19. all three had not been vaccinated and were mildly ill for 10 to 12 days. i also know someone who got so sick they came within hours of dying and went into debt paying hospital bills because the vaccine was not covered by insurance." we want to know what your experience is with covenant. -- experience with covid-19. we will start with robert. go ahead, robert. caller: i'm a vietnam veteran. i went into the military when john f. kennedy was president. when i went in the military, everybody had to be given shots. there was none of this craziness is that is going on now. before i went into the military, we had polio shots and whooping cough shots and the whole country got these shots for their kids.

now we have these enemies of the people governors stirring up strife that should not be stirred up. i think god i live in maryland where are where we have a republican governor with good sense. johns hopkins, when they put out information, you can rely on it. . any of these people who listen to these stupid governors who talk about rights and freedoms and all of that stuff, they are hurting their own people. let's pray that this crap they keep stirring up among people they don't know any better would cease. host: have you gotten your vaccine? do you plan to get a booster shot? caller: i got one back in january or february.

we could not find a place to get a shot. then i thought about d.c. the politicians and the diplomats, they are going to make sure to have plenty in d.c.. i called down to about d.c. and two leaders started having the first shot. all of my family went to d.c. and got shots. four weeks later i got my second shot. and the politicians who put this garbage in people's heads are hurting their guns that are hurting their constituents -- are hurting their constituents. host: some governors are saying they will not mandate vaccines. the governor of south dakota says, "we will not be mandating vaccines in south dakota.

biden has no authority to do so. by overplaying his hand, biden may increase vaccine hesitancy by saying our patient is wearing thin. he is demonizing the american people. america should not be forced into vaccination. i encourage americans to get vaccinated as i did, but that choices theirs to make." some governors say they will not be mandating vaccinations. it's tough to john calling from princeton, west virginia -- let's go to john kline from princeton, west virginia. caller: that governor that made that comment, he has already demonized the american people. i'm so frustrated here. in west virginia, we have horrible health care.

i am vaccinated and 45 years old with lupus. i take care of my mother who is 68. four months ago she came down with colitis. we have been in a hospital three different times trying to get this taken care of. it is so inundated with covid patients that is all they can take care of. they seem to forget that other medical necessities and needs are still happening. i have almost lost my mother because of this. if you demanded a vaccine, all that is going to do is make it worse. the people not taking it now, it is the ones who are not taking it that say i am not taking it because they say i have to take it. host: you are in west virginia and we can see from the washington post map that west

virginia is a state with a high rate of unvaccinated people. if you don't mandate it, how do you commit people to take it? how do you convince people who have not taken it to take it? caller: that is a good question and there are smarter people than me trying to answer that. all i can say is i have taken it and my family has taken it. the people that are not taking it and refusing to take it because it is their right, you are infringing on my right and my health. . by not taking it. this is a horribly complicated situation we are in. racism has been dragged into it and politics has been dragged into it when neither of those should have come into play. host: let's talk to mike who is calling from stockton,

california. caller: i would like to say thank you to the fellow from massachusetts who made reference that he did some research based on the republic of korea and their experience with the vaccine. i agree with him 100%. we know from harvard that the adverse reaction, we get something like a 1% of the people who have adverse reactions actually filling out the reports that government doctors are required to fill out. it is not being reported. what is being underreported by the people having the adverse effects. check out robert malone's -- robert malone. he is the inventor of the mrna gene therapy. it is not a vaccine.

he says not to take it, it is dangerous. michael yeatman with the chief scientist at pfizer. you know what he is telling people? don't take it, it is dangerous. host: this has been brought up a few times. reuters says that south korea's infections are topping 3000 for the first time as they are going through an outbreak of covid-19. whatever south korea was doing before does not look like it is working. caller: i'm not up to date, south korea is doing, i was just saying thanks to the guy who has the intelligence to check out and research for himself. these guys are not anti-backs -- anti-vaxxers. they made their careers through

vaccines. these guys are not wacko, these are accomplished scientists who are to warn the american people not to take interest vaccines. host: letter to michael calling from pasadena, texas. caller: this whole thing with health and politics, they have muddied the waters when they have politics involved with people's health. it is a shame the people are basically either going to do it were not going to do it. they are going to pack a gun or not pack a gun. in texas, you can tell the way a lot of people are going. being as red as the state is, a governor and lieutenant governor like we have, everything is always a ploy to take over the

government. this is one of the ploys by the democrats to take over the government and still everybody's desk and steal everybody -- and steal everybody's rights. well we have to stop at stop signs and wear seatbelts. we have mandates. you have to do what you can, and maybe that includes mandates. host: the director of cdc came out and overruled a recommendation by an advisory board on the booster shots. i will bring to you what the new york times wrote about that. "the cdc overruled a recommendation by an agency advisory panel that refused to endorse booster shots of the

pfizer shot for frontline workers. it was an unusual move by the director, ritual and ski -- rachel walensky. the cdc advisory committee recommended the boosters for a wide range of americans including tens of millions of younger -- older adults and younger people at high risk for the disease. but they excluded health-care workers, teachers, and others whose jobs put them at risk. that put their recommendations at odds with the fda's authorization of booster shots for all adults with a high occupational risk." director belinsky came out friday to talk about why she made -- rector rachel walensky came out. here's what she had to say.

[video clip] >> there was a discussion about if they should be eligible for booster shots because of high-risk exposure to covid, people like health-care workers, teachers, and those in congregant settings. had i been on the committee, i would have voted yes and that is reflected in my decision to allow the use of the pfizer covid-19 booster dose for those 18 and older at high risk of covid-19 exposure and transmission because of occupational and institutional exposure. as cdc director, it is my job to recognize where actions can have the biggest impact. in the pandemic, we take steps to do the greatest good even in an uncertain environment. that is what i am doing with these recommendations.

we have experienced a deadly pandemic that has had a disproportionate effect on parts of our country, those on the front lines in hospitals and classrooms and those in crowded settings who have put themselves in harm's way. our initial vaccine first -- our initial vaccine rollout prioritized these people. our teachers are facing uncertainty as they walked into the classroom and i must do what i can to preserve the health across the nation. i'm aware of the disproportionate impacts the pandemic has had on minority communities. many of our frontline communities and covered it -- have already been hardest hit. withholding access of boosters to these people would only worsen the inequities i've committed to fight against. host: let's talk to douglas who

is calling from east greenville, pennsylvania. good morning. caller: good morning. i am a doctor, i treated in number of patients recently with covid-19. i have not lost one patient. i tried to separate the politics and the emotion from this and just look at the science and research. i will state one thing that i feel strongly about. most people don't even know what mrna is or dna used in the vaccines. my question typically to someone who is supportive of having the vaccine -- and i'm hesitant with using the term vaccine because this shot does not prevent you

from getting covid-19 as do most other vaccines. when i was a child, i had the smallpox and polio vaccines both of which prevent the occurrence of those two diseases. my question to most people is what mrna. usually when i get that usually when i ask that question, i get a blank stare -- usually when i ask that question, i get to blank stare. host: what? ? type of doctor are you? are you a general practitioner or specialist? caller: in chiropractor -- i am a chiropractor. host: have you had patients with covid-19? caller: i have seen plenty.

there was a journal article published about this topic recently. one thing i feel strongly about is why is it that individuals are more resistant to covid-19 then those that have a different blood of acquiring covid-19. if you read the new england journal of medicine article it outlines why. there is a genetic link between blood type and another gene that controls immunity. host: do you plan to get a vaccine? what do you make sure -- are you doing to make sure you do not get covid-19? caller: i believe i have had the condition. the condition lasted 24 hours with me.

i went through a period of severe headache like i have never gone through in my life. i had nausea, severe fatigue and i woke up that morning at about 530 with -- 5:30 with so much for take that i did not think i would be able to get out of bed. host: what are you doing to make sure you do not get covid-19? caller: again, studying the research, there is an m.i.t. study i would encourage you to read on social distancing. depending upon the size of the room and the ventilation like if

you are going to a supermarket or a walmart, the ceilings are so high and the ventilation is such that the potential for you communicating it to someone in front of you is significantly lower. significantly lower-- . -- significantly lower. host: let's talk to carrie and pennsylvania. caller: i think what president biden is doing is awful. he is pitting vaccinated and unvaccinated against each other. for the man that called and about the bears, you can put me in that category. i got the vaccine and i have been sick since i got it. they will not report on the deaths or the injuries from

this vaccine. i know two people who died from this vaccine. he is pitting america against each other. if you are vaccinated, you are vaccinated. you can still spread it. why is he doing this? i will never vote for a democrat again. i am so disappointed in what he has done to this country. host: i assume from what you are saying you will not be getting a booster shot. caller: never. i know i 17-year-old who has myocarditis who was supposed to go to college on a basketball scholarship. he will not be doing that. why are they not reporting all these terrible injuries? i got the vaccine because i thought it was the right thing to do. since then i have been nothing but sick.

i don't know anyone who has gotten covid. you see these women on the view yesterday. they tested positive and then negative. how can you rely on these numbers? i know people personally. i know two nurses who work in hospitals. it is not the unvaccinated taking up all the space in the icu. it is the vaccinated! host: let's talk to cliff. caller: i have been sick off and on for 16 months. hello? host: we can hear you, cliff. caller: i got covid in june of

'20. i had long hauler's disease. what i want to get across to people this morning is that there are two separate diseases that i do not even think the experts talk about at all. they may know about it but they do not talk about it. this has nothing to do with the vaccine but i will get to that in a second. what we have in america is a pandemic but now we have an epidemic of long hauler's disease. very high rated overall adjusts -- virologists -- there are one

close to that who have survived -- let's say there are 100,000 who have had the disease and close to that who have survived. up to this point they thought they had a virus problem. what is happening with the long hauler's and there are 25 million long haulers suffering. your immune system is stuck on high and you have all this inflammation that continues. we need treatment for the long haulers. host: there has been a lot of

reporting of people who have been having long haul effects from covid-19. it is not exactly a secret. caller: i'm not saying that, jesse, what i'm saying, what treatment do they have for it? what science has come along. if we have 25 million people who can hardly get out of -- i was a pro athlete. i have had days that i cannot even get out of bed. i'm just saying that secondarily to that, if i got a vaccine -- i have had doctors that advise i

get a vaccine because it can help me. if i get long -- host: let's go to zach calling from frederick, maryland. are you there? hi. caller: i don't think i am going to be getting this third shot. i have gotten the two shots so i think that is sufficient. if other people want to get it, i wish them well. i'm not going to get it. this whole thing has been crazy. -- whole thing has been crazy. host: what do you mean?

caller: it is like alice in wonderland. it is a crazy experience for everybody. getting a third shot at this point -- you know, i don't know. host: let's go to diane calling from little rock, arkansas. caller: good morning. this virus, i had two shots, now i am sick. i broke out all over my body. i went to the vein clinic. he said it might be coming for my heart, but i had inflammation years ago.

i won't say what i got to say. host: are you saying you think that the coronavirus vaccine is somebody's attempt to reduce the population in the united states? caller: yes! there is too many people in the united states. host: let's go to scott who is calling from san diego, california. caller: morning, jesse. come see us! we will get you organic snow cones when you come to visit for free! i was a smoker for years.

you could talk science to me but until i decided to quit smoking for the sake of my health and pocketbook, it was not going to happen. . i feel like you are dealing with a lot of to pack a day smokers in the sense that you can talk science to these anti-vaxxers, you can talk reality to them, but they are still aching from the last election. they are like two-year-olds. they want mr. trump. what was his medical advice? he wanted you to do funny things with blacklight bulbs. thing after thing, really slow on the uptake, and recognizing it as the problem that it was. i was vaccinated.

i had two shots. i believe in science and reality. host: let's talk to tiny calling from texas. caller: good morning. the vaccine does not stop you from getting covid. information i have been hearing that people who have had the vaccine, they are the super-spreader's. what the president is doing is pitting america, the vaxxed against the unvaxxed. texas is leading the problem.

when you open up the border and the people coming across the border have covid and you are not going to give them the shot but you are going to mandate the american people to get the shot. they invented covid in a lab in order to kill people from china. host: let's go to donnee caller from des moines, iowa -- don, a caller from des moines, iowa. caller: i just had covid and got out of the hospital. i had two shots. one of them was to protect me, the second was to protect other people.

i was in the hospital with a low immune system. that is why i got the covid. the doctor told me " the people who are diane are the people who have no shot -- dying are the people who have no shots." i was dehydrated. that is why i got the covid. the person i got covid from was a so-called religious person. they would not get the shot for that reason. they can carry the covid even if they have had shots and pass it to other people. if these people are religious enough they should think about those who they can pass it on to. host: let's talk to lori from

hamburg, pennsylvania. caller: vaccinated, my daughters -- i am vaccinated, my daughters have been vaccinated, and i do not know anybody who has had a bad effect other than being tired. host: will you be getting the booster shot? caller: absolutely. my daughters are teachers and they will be able to get there booster shots. soon -- their booster shots soon. george washington had his troops vaccinated and ever since then, our troops have been -- kids

have been vaccinated when they went to school. yesterday i watched a hearing with congress, aviation and the problems they're having on airplanes with people getting violent. there were different representatives there. the republican representative, first thing he went to, " the people are uncomfortable because they are wearing masks. flying is stressful." he wants to put it -- they jump right to know masks. -- to no masks. they are trying to win something here, people think they are protecting their rights. host: up next we will move to our open forum, which means you

can call in and talk about what your most political topic is. you see the numbers on the screen. we are moving to open forum. we will be right back. ♪ >> weekends bring you the best in nonfiction books. a look at the 1863 new york city draft riots and civil war newspapers with joshua brown. he discusses how citizens across the country experienced the events through the drawings that chronicled them. ronald and nancy reagan on the day of her birth. a tribute to the both of them.

august marks the anniversary of reagan's tax cuts passing into law. others look back at the legacy of president reagan's economic agenda. find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at c-span.org/history. >> washington journal continues. host: we are going to go to our open forum segment. that means if you have an important political topic you want to talk about, call-in in and let us know. democrats, your number is going to be (202) 748-8000. publicans, you can call -- republicans, you can call (202) 748-8001.

independents, your number is (202) 748-8002. we are always reading twitter. one of the important political stories being talked about this morning are the results of the arizona election audit. i will bring you a story from cnbc that talks about the results of the arizona election audit. a draft report of the review of the election results in arizona's largest county and to -- has in fact confirmed the winner. the much delayed report from cyber ninjas a florida-based firm whose owner has spread pro-trump conspiracies had been repeatedly hyped up by trump himself but the draft confirms

the county's canvas of the 2020 general election was accurate and the candidates certified as the winners did in fact win. the audit did confirmed that president joe biden one the county. -- biden won the county. let's start with chris calling from reston, virginia. caller: regarding the vaccine, i took two shots, had no effect. 6 people in my family had no effect. since when was it an issue, vaccines? it works. i was deployed to iraq in 2003. i had nine shots!

even aspirin can kill people -- it depends on the person. vaccinated people do not get sick, okay? the government mandate -- we are mandated to do many things. a building has to be according to code. i do not want to hear this. the most important issue is democracy. the gop is waiting people to distrust of our democratic system -- leading people to distrust our democratic system. we need to change campaign financing and jerry mondrian should be -abolished- gerrymandering -- gerrymandering should be abolished.

caller: all of these democrats who want to call up, they need to see how horrible of a job biden has done. we have inflation of gas, inflation of food prices, inflation all over the general economy, a border crisis that is a total and complete disaster, we had 13 service people get killed in afghanistan. what has gotten better? absolutely nothing! when trump was president at least he could say " i do not have a vaccine." as the previous caller said earlier we have americans pitted

against each other. we have red states versus blue states, the rich versus the poor. he is tearing this country apart. host: the previous caller just brought up president biden's job review. on friday president biden responded to questions about his lower poll numbers. here is what president biden had to say. [video clip] >> this is a process. that is why i do not look at the polls. hopefully at the end of the day i will be able to deliver on what i said i would do. one, bringing the country together on a few important things like infrastructure,

getting us in a position where we can have some coherent policy, moving us in a position where we can generate the kind of change in the dynamic of how we grow the economy, not eliminate the super wealthy, but allowed the working-class and middle-class to be able to build out and up. every time i hear " this is going to cost a, b, c, or d," it is going to cross nothing because we are going to raise the revenue to pay for the things we're talking about. $1 trillion of that is tax cuts.

people are paying less taxes! the people paying less taxes are going to be working-class folks. it is going to put women back to work. my dad's constant refrain, just give people a little breathing room. thank you. host: let's go back to our phone lines and talk to barry calling from safety harbor, florida on the independent line. caller: good morning i want to revisit the vaccine issue for a second. i will take as much time as you will allow. i am a kidney transplant recipient. i have had both the initial to

moderna vaccine's as well as the booster and aside from some soreness and aside from getting a little ill after the second vaccine, i have tolerated all three vaccines very well and i take immune suppressing drugs to prevent rejection of my transplanted kidney. since i got sick with kidney failure i have become a student of my health and i spent a lot of time researching what the doctors tell me to find out what is true and what is not true. i have court before i took it -- of course research the vaccine before i took it. it is a new type of vaccine. it does affect rna, so it is not

a vaccine in the traditional sense, but i hear all of these stories that your viewers are talking about about people having these reactions to the vaccine. i am in florida where the political divide is fairly profound. there is not a whole lot of news here. i believe that there won't be, particularly with our republican governor talking about people having vaccine reactions. i am not saying that these stories are being told are not true. i am sure there with some truth to it. i am sure some people are having terrible reactions to the vaccine but i think it is such a small minority of people. the vaccine will not prevent do you from getting covid, but what

it will do is it will save your life if you get sick. you may end up in the hospital but you will not die. host: let's talk to mike calling from baltimore, maryland on the democratic line. caller: good morning. to me it has been a lot of missing nation. if you can go into the grocery store and hear somebody say " let me put my mask on i do not want to catch anything!" you are putting on the mask so you do not give it to other people! i think so many people are confused. people started getting the vaccines and people started

asking questions about " when can i go see my grandchildren?" everybody got up in arms, waiting all this time for this vaccine and we cannot go anywhere? if you are vaccinated, you do not have to wear a mask. if you are unvaccinated, we will trust you to do the right thing. does that sound right to you? host: we will go to bob in illinois. caller: i just heard what joe biden said about giving the people a little bit of room to breathe. we have got that right now. we have got that resolved. what punishment are we going to hold against china for letting

this stuff out? somebody has to pay the price for this and if they do not want to pay the price for this, do not give them any business. host: going on some either major news going on -- other major news going on in the united states, the biden administration says it has now cleared out the entire area in del rio, texas. " all migrants -- the biden administration that friday it has during out the chaotic order camp in del rio, texas where images of u.s. agents on

horseback pursuing migrants subjected the president to withering criticism this week. homeland security secretary ella hunter made our guest told reporters during a briefing that the encampment was emptied several days ahead of schedule, the result of an extensive federal mobilization and heroic efforts by his departments workforce." what are your issues? we go to california on the independent line. caller: i am calling in response to the coveted ship. -- covid issue. i am struggling personally to not take the vaccine because i have an autoimmune disease and the research is not very clear to me what i should do, but i

need to take the vaccine because i want to visit my mother who is in a nursing facility. host: have you asked your physician what he or she suggests you should do? caller: i did but it is my own personal choice. host: what are you going to do? caller: i don't know! i'm taking it one step at a time. i have got in the swab. i am going to try and find out what my blood type is. i heard a guy on your station you recommended that. i am doing things for myself because it is my body. i am over 60.

i want to be here for my grandkids. let's talk to clint who is calling from -- host: let's talk to clint who is calling from pennsylvania. caller: i wonder how they plan on getting everybody the vaccine when you need to show your photo id to get it. they keep saying many people do not have photo ids. host: you are saying you need a photo id to get a vaccine? caller: i had to show mind to get my vaccine -- mine to get my vaccine. host: where did you get your vaccine? caller: cvs. host: let's go to courtney

calling in from new york on the democratic line. caller: i am vaccinated. i did not once to get it because i do not like shots but i believe everyone needs to get vaccinated. i think the issue we are having right now is the united states, the whole world dealing with this. we need to do our part. it is a pandemic, not an epidemic. the whole world is dealing with this. a lot of americans are thinking it is just us. it is a worldwide pandemic. the entire world is dealing with this. we have to do our part so please

give vaccinated. i know you do not want to. i didn't want to but it was because i did not like shots. we need to get vaccinated. it is very important. host: let's go to charlie calling from new jersey on the republican line. caller: i would like to say that people saying that everyone should or shouldn't get vaccinated, i think it is more of a personal choice. if you are address give diane from covid, get the vaccine, but -- dying from covid, get the vaccine, but young healthy people, i do not know why they would get the vaccine. if you are vaccinated you can still get and spread the virus so you are not killing people by

getting the vaccine. it is a personal health decision and we need to stop yelling at each other about whether we should or should not get it. host: let's go to larry calling from virginia. caller: good morning. i want to thank god for blessing us with another day. i do not know what has happened with our country. we have all become divided since trump became president. i think we should take the shot because look at these statistics and the science that have been provided to us. one last thing, mr. trump told us when he became president that he was going to do the presidency job for free, right? when he lowered the taxes for the rich, how much money did he

make off of that? host: let's go to mike in fairbanks, alaska. caller: good morning. my wife had knee replacement surgery in montana. one of the doctors there who was very vax-happy gave her the first flu shot she had in her life. she got deathly ill. my son got terribly sick with covid, every symptom of covid. i am worried that the flu shot coming out now will be loaded with mrna. in my opinion washington is full of satan worshipers and this is

a blood sacrifice. if you listen to dr. steve sanchez, he comes on every day at 6:00 in las vegas, he will explain that to you. host: let's go to robert in massachusetts. caller: i am a big trump supporter and i chose to get the vaccine because it makes sense for me. everyone in this country had an opportunity to make that decision and i have no problem if people are not vaccinated. i am vaccinated. i am fine. it is time to end this ridiculousness and go back to normal life. host: let's go to larry calling from los angeles, california on the independent line. caller: my whole thing is i do

not know where justice system has gone in this country. i thought it was supposed to be blind. i thought it was supposed to be for all. hillary clinton's attorney has been linked to the russian inclusion. 4 years we went through impeachments. now come to find out, which everybody knew from the beginning, it was all trumped up, to use that word. why don't they storm hillary's house at 3:00 in the morning, arrestor, put her -- arrest her, put her in jail.

we can go point by point. i have come to the conclusion that whenever they use the word political it is actually as bad as the n-word. host: let's go to ron in new hampshire. caller: i love this show. i would love to see donald trump spend 10 hours in front of a panel like hillary clinton did and answer questions. he would not last two minutes before he perjured himself. my biggest fear, and there is a lot to be afraid of, there are a

lot of things in this world to be afraid of, drug violence, gun violence. my biggest fear is that my son 21 years old and up becoming a republican. host: let's see what is on the mind of some of our social media followers. here is a text that says " the u.s. is a hot mess. it seems like it is on the brink of failure. personally -- how does this get turned around? may be term limits and an end to gerrymandering? personally i think it is past the point of no return. we are ripe for takeover by a dictator." " covid isn't going to be over

anytime soon. ed might have been if it was taken seriously as a global threat." " great! the camp in del rio texas is cleared out. it where did they make the people disappear to?" " loss of innocent until proven guilty -- the story about the border patrol using website while on horses is a perfect example. prominent people and media gays blasting opinions on the situation they only knew about from a photograph. the house passed legislation friday that would codify abortion rights and midst threats against roe v. wade.

the measure advanced along party line votes in a 218-211 vote with only one republican represented -- only one democrat voting against it. the legislation now faces a dead in the evenly split senate where democrats would need at least 10 republicans to support the bill for it to advance to a final vote." let's go back to our phone lines and go to rich calling from ohio on the independent line. caller: on the part where hillary, definitely they were trying to spy on the voting while voting was going on to spy on the opposition.

the real thing we have got is this virus now. how many years are we going to go on? we have to do all of the above. one of the things is that border since we have an epidemic should be shut down because we have the eighth largest city coming in. the governors do not know who is coming in. the other one is we should have good testing that mean something , we know which items are working on uv light or all the other medicines we have and not just guessing what is working because we can do that. to get less personal about it,

to block the square where the disease is coming in, we would have more debt we would win or lose a football game. this is real life where you save real lives. host: let's go to tim who is calling in from mountain home, arkansas. caller: for all the people who get vaccinated, evolution has a failsafe i can is him for this. it is called death. host: let's talk to janet who is calling from michigan on the democratic line. that morning. caller: -- good morning. caller: i think everyone should get their vaccination. what i am finding

counterproductive is every time i go on tv there is someone getting a shot in the arm. it is always someone getting a shot. i got both of my shots and i will get a booster when it is available but i think this is counterproductive. it causes a lot of anxiety. i wish anyone who agrees with me would spread the word. we do not need a visual of people getting a shot in the arm. i am sick and tired of needles. even at walmart on the teleprompter there is a needle. every commercial is for needles. host: let's go to rosemary on the independent line. caller: i actually am a democrat and i wanted to say that i did

not get a chance on the earlier issue. i am in support of the extension of the cdc letting other people get the booster. i have had both of my shots, pfizer, and i will get the booster. i want to say a positive thing about the united states -- i have traveled widely and i live in a country that i love and i appreciate all of the advantages and the positive things that come my way because of the federal, state and local government. host: let's talk to floyd calling from jonesville, virginia on the republican line. caller: i would like to say back before they said the virus was

going around i went to my doctor for a regular doctor's appointment. by the time i got back home i was sick. i couldn't smell, i couldn't taste. my wife got it immediately. we suffered with it for a long time. took two rounds of antibiotics, two rounds of steroids, we couldn't taste, we couldn't smell. this went on for two weeks. we went to the bible and we took the passover. the bread and the wine represents christ. we did that and immediately we were better, but you better repent if you do that. if you have got sends and you take that then you take damnation into yourself. god healed us and we thank god

for that. host: let's go to david in georgia. caller: thank you for having an independent on the independent line. i used to be the one who call in and got the independent line started. you you set up a line for liberals/conservatives so they can have their place to go so the democrats, republicans and independents can get on here and debate real issues. my family has been here since this was the kings dirt. this problem has been going on since you had the whigs and tories. it is called the republicans and democrats now. this is nothing new.

people need to stop and think. miss k, the republican governor in alabama say that people are supposed to have common sense but they're not using it. they are being led around by a bunch of snake oil salesman who do not want to sell you a cure for covid. the shot is not a cure. we understand that. the one who is telling you not to take the shot are selling you something that will get you killed. i will tell somebody in a minute, " you want to die? go to a hospital!" my main thing is about liberals/conservatives line. it is ridiculous when they call in on our independents line. host: on tuesday florida

governor ron desantis announced the appointment of a new florida state surgeon general, and opponent of masks and vaccine mandates. here to discuss his views on covid prevention and vaccines at a conference with governor desantis, here is what he had to say. [video clip] >> is the vaccine a personal choice? >> u.s. date things there. vaccines are up to the person. there is nothing special about them compared to any other preventive measure. the great thing about vaccines for covid-19 as they prevent serious illness. the state should be promoting good health and vaccination is

not the only path to that. it has been treated almost like a religion. it is senseless. there are a lot of pathways to health and vaccination is not the only one. we support measures for good health. that is vaccination, losing weight, it is eating more fruits and vegetables host:. -- more fruits and vegetables. host: let's go back to our phone lines. good morning. caller: i am calling from detroit. i have been watching c-span. they're arguing about the debt limit, you know. ever since i have cared about the debt limit the republicans have been running the debt limit

up because ronald reagan increased the dam it -- debt limit 18 times and donald trump when they finish the tax cut bill, he ran it up. they are still hollering about the debt limit, the republicans. they need to stop they are lying. those good old boys are telling lies about the democrats and the debt limit. the worst three presidents i have ever seen were ronald reagan, george bush and george bush senior and junior. when george bush took over as president, america was in the black. he bankrupted america.

ronald reagan send more jobs to china and japan ever then in history. they brought in a bunch of -- i am retired from general motors. they brag about -- we need to wake up and stop and get rid of some of those lying republicans. host: here is a story from market that talked about when the u.s. borrowing limit will be reached and what will happen when that happens. " the u.s. government is most likely to have sufficient cash to meet its financial obligations sometime between october 15 and november 4 if the federal are when limit is not

raised -- federal borrowing limit isn't raised. the production from the think tank in washington comes as democratic and republican lawmakers remain locked in a standoff over lifting the debt limit. the bipartisan policy center previously estimated the u.s. government's 'x date' would come at sometime time between mid-october and mid-november. 'no one can be certain of the x

date but we know it is coming within a matter of months.'" host: denise, good morning. caller: i would like to see your program have a session one day having callers call-in who have experience with ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, monoclonal therapy and just to see whether viewers have to say on all that because it seems they are not letting the therapeutics be a success. host: we had a whole segment at the beginning of the show for people who have been vaccinated or unvaccinated call-in. are you vaccinated? what type of prevention are you doing to make sure you do not get covid?

caller: i am unvaccinated. i work outdoors a lot. i have my ivermectin sitting in my covered ready in case i get sick. we have monoclonal places here to get monoclonal therapy, which a friend of mine just had it and he was back to work in today's host: -- back to work in two day s. host: but you have not tried ivermectin? caller: no. host: marge, good morning. this is in regards to the article you read regarding that hearing they had.

you aired it yesterday and i watched it in its entirety. that article was not complete as you know. they had referred this hearing, all of the results from it to their attorney general for charges, including criminal charges. there were duplicate ballots. yeah, biden won with the information that they had. they had video of the people who purged it databases and files the day before it was sent to the audit. i encourage people to hear the complete hearing from yesterday that you guys aired. regarding the ivermectin, i encourage all of the watchers to go on facebook and look up a guy name eric wilson and listen to

his ivermectin story. host: if you want to watch the news conference from the arizona republicans, you can find it on this page you see on screen. go to c-span.org and you can find and watchlet's go to sandym cleveland, ohio on the democrat line. caller: hi there. i wanted to say a little bit about covid and how everyone in this country does want our country to go back to normal, but that cannot happen until everyone is vaccinated and the spread stops, and people stop dying. it takes a little bit of common

sense. you hear the hospitals, you hear the doctors and nurses, but yet the unvaccinated want to go back to normal. and the debt limit, i have never heard anyone speak about all the money that has not gone out in the past year and a half. all the people who died from covid and collected social security, disability, federal checks, state checks -- we should be richer than ever. that's my comment. host: let's talk to frank, calling from old fort north carolina on the republican line -- old fort, north carolina on the republican line. caller: yes. the only thing i have to say, i did not take the shot, and back in 2011, bill gates put out a

report saying they should make a plague that would eliminate 15% to 20% of the population. so no, i did not take the shot and people should be aware. that's all i have to say. thank you. host: "the washington post" has a story this morning about how masks may be affecting the spread of covid through schools in the united states. i will bring that to you. the centers for disease control and prevention on friday has more evidence that masks can keep kids healthy in classrooms, showing fewer school outbreaks in places that require them. in an analysis of 520 u.s. counties, the cdc found pediatric cases rose more sharply in places without school mask requirements. in a separate report that looked at arizona's two most populous

counties, the agency found that schools without mask requirements were 3.5 times as likely to experience an outbreak than schools with them. though polls show a majority of parents support mask requirements and despite recommendations from the cdc and pediatricians, schools remained bitterly divided over whether to implement them. opponents of mask mandates say parents should get to decide whether their children wear them . that's from "the washington post," the cdc saying pediatric cases of coronavirus have gone up more sharply in places without school mask requirements and in some counties, schools without mask requirements are 3.5 times as likely to experience an outbreak rather than schools with them. once again, we want to know what your topic is. let's talk to linda, calling

from north carolina on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning, jesse. i was talking to the covid, anti-vaccine people, and i am a heavy smoker. i think it's a good comparison. i can't smoke anywhere. if you want to demonstrate anything on personal freedom, i think the smokers have a good case. i can't smoke 100 feet away from somebody on the beach. that's kind of ridiculous, or else i get a fine. there is no law against, you know, we have a million laws against smokers. i think we should rally to that. host: let's talk to david, calling from virginia on the democratic line. good morning. caller: good morning, jesse. thank you for taking my call and

for c-span. on the covid vaccine, i have had the vaccine and i signed up for the booster shot, i will have that on the 30th. people should check with your health care providers to see how soon they can get their booster shot. concerning the origin of covid, that is still unsolved. the animal to animal has been promoted initially, and more recently, the escape from a lab has taken on more veracity. it would be great if they could finally decide what the origin of covid, the covid vaccine was. the number of deaths have exceeded our largest war, may be other than the civil war, in this country. over 4 million people.

the question becomes, was it really released from a lab? even though it is likely to be an accidental release, in 2015, the tla published a paper with the wuhan virus that indicated that it could be weaponized and it would be used in world war iii to overcome the health care system of the world. you know, if the chinese communist party and the pla have intentionally released this, which i believe is not that likely, but still, it could have been just a dry run for what could really happen in the future. host: let's go to robert, calling from california on the republican line. caller: oh, wow. man, it's been a long time.

thanks for taking this. i would like to start from the beginning. i am tayino, which is the indigenous word for "good people." 500 years ago, good people of the caribbean greeted columbus. in return, he began systemic genocide. this genocide was not complete. i am alive, my dna verifies that i am an indigenous person. what i am asking for now is the reparations. according to human rights, you will pay the indigenous people for resources expropriated from our lands, 10,000 oil wells are in the caribbean and native americans are dirt poor. what gives? is it the rule of law or is it human rights? please talk about it. host: let's go to kim, calling

from lancaster, south carolina on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning, jesse. can you give me a little time? i have three topics i would like to talk about. first, how did the haitians get to the texas border? haiti is 2500 miles away. [indiscernible] we can decrease the world population by 10% through 15% through vaccines. then, when the coronavirus first got the vaccine, he was cured. you'll be ok, but you might get a little sick. now you are telling the people, those shots are not working because they have to get the boosters. it's just common sense. what about when they tell you next time, you have to get another shot? the united states is not going to have any money to borrow by

october 15? america the broke. where is all this money coming from? the coronavirus relief package, only 49% actually went to the coronavirus. with this infrastructure bill, i wonder how much is actually going to go to infrastructure. host: let's go to liz, calling from hot springs national park in arkansas on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. i am right with that guy from south carolina. he is smart. yes, we are going to have this coronavirus as long as it's for the liberal agenda to keep on going killing people. but i also have another thing. you know, this hr 3755, the abortion on demand up to nine

months -- there is a book in heaven that is going to be opened about your works. what you signed up for, what have you done. everyone that has put their name on this agenda to kill innocence, which is against god's law, has just signed their name on that book, which will giv them -- give them a place in hell, eventually, if this goes through to kill children that haven't done anything and chop their bodies up. this is barbarism. host: let's go to liz, calling from georgia on the democratic line. good morning. caller: good morning, jesse. first of all, let me tell you, you have the patience of job, to listen to all these calls with these theories and ideas. i am calling because i am concerned about the democrats not getting rid of the

filibuster, and, by the way, not getting rid of senator manchin at the same time. mitch mcconnell is practically daring the democrats to govern. he is saying, you can't keep your people in line. he does that because they know they can count on joe manchin, who has not supported one thing the democrats have proposed. the democrats need to get it together. i don't know if they need -- to come back and sign something on these two people, but we need to do that. they are holding up our entire agenda. host: let's talk to tom, calling from winterhaven, florida on the republican line. -- independent line. caller: good morning. this may be a little off topic, but i believe 75% of gun

violence in this country would go away if we just legalize, regulate, and tax weed and coke. 75% of the violence against women would go away if we would legalize, regulate, and tax prostitution. i am delivered -- the libertarian in the room, sorry. thank you for your patience, you are a good man. host: let's go to don, on the republican line. good morning. caller: i just wanted to know, i have gone through all this masking and everything, and all of a sudden now my rent is going up $60 a month and i didn't get no extra money from the tax write-off or anything like that.

now i am stuck in a place where i have to pay my extra rent and that's going to put me back into a small money to pay for my bills, and the company that owns the property is from another state. i am paying their taxes. host: let's talk to sean, calling from washington, d.c. on the democratic line. good morning. caller: good morning. good morning, good morning. i want to say, if you want to

get vaccinated, get vaccinated. i do not think it should have divided the country as much as it is right now. dr. rochelle walensky did say that people who are fully vaccinated can still catch and spread the virus, so i don't know why everybody is mandating the vaccine if you can till catch and spread the virus if you are fully vaccinated? it makes no sense. stop treating people who are unvaccinated as if they are the culprits. everybody needs to get tested again for covid, even if you are fully vaccinated. dr. luke monty already approved that the people who are unvaccinated are the ones creating the variants. i want to know why everyone is demanding people be fully vaccinated. if you are fully vaccinated, you can still catch and spread the virus and still get sick. host: let's go to linda, calling

from phoenix, arizona on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. i agree with the last man who called. i went to a concert recently and i had to show my vaccination card. i would not have been let in to see the show, even if i had bought a ticket, if i was not vaccinated. [indiscernible] and you do not have to be vaccinated. i do not see how the virus is going to stop spreading. i was watching "the view yesterday -- "the view" yesterday, and they pulled two hosts off the show because they had a positive test. we need more testing, because right now i don't see anything happening to make it go away.

it's very confusing on the vaccination. thank you. host: coming up next, rachel li pson discusses her recent piece from "boston globe magazine" on workforce training in the u.s. and how it can be approved. -- improved. that's coming up next. we will be right back. ♪ >> weekends bring you the best in american history and nonfiction books on book tv's "afterwords," michelle easton and her book, "how to raise a conservative daughter."

then, we will feature interviews with myles harvey on his book " the king of confidence" with interviews with ellie fishman and marcia chatelain as well. both the house and senate are back next week. members will begin debate on the infrastructure bill, majority leader hoyer also says he intends to bring the larger spending package known as the build back better act to the floor. the house may also go over to bills concerning worker discrimination and funding emergency shelters for domestic violence victims. the senate is back at 3:00 p.m. eastern to work on the government funding and the debt ceiling.

they will take up a temporary resolution to keep the government funded through september 3, which increases the debt ceiling through 2022. a debate on that will take place at 5:30 eastern. watch the house, live on c-span, the senate on c-span two, or listen on the free c-span radio app. "washington journal" continues. host: we are back with rachel lipson, who is here this morning to talk to us about her article in "boston globe magazine" on improving drug -- improving job training. guest: thank you for having me. host: so the project on workforce training -- what is that? guest: we are a cross

disciplinary initiative that launched about a year and a half ago, and we go through the training systems that are often siloed through each other. i am based at the kennedy school, but we engage faculty, staff, and students from harvard business school and the school of education, and our mission is two fold. we are focused on two big questions. the first is how we create more and better pathways into good jobs in america, and the second is how we create smoother connections between educations and work? host: what made you decide to write this article in "the globe magazine" now? what made you think about, this is time to look at the workforce in america and job training? guest: i think we are at a unique moment in american history. the pandemic laid bare most of

the inequities in our labor market and the access to opportunities in this country. unfortunately, we entered into the crisis not as well-equipped as we could be. for decades prior to this moment, we under invested in our system of education, training and workforce development. which meant when we had millions of unemployed workers and record high numbers of workers who are quitting jobs and looking to start new careers, the system was not ready to absorb them in many ways. it needs to be modernized, and has been neglected by policymakers. businesses and educators in many ways have been stuck in the past in our thinking and we have not been able to keep up with the speed of change in the economy and the types of jobs that are available to americans. so i think in this moment with the pandemic, with this new life, how do we help workers to change jobs and get into new opportunities?

it's an important, i would argue bipartisan moment to take stock of the system that we have, and how we can improve it to prepare people for jobs of the future. host: what training do you think is needed right now? are we talking about training for people to get jobs that don't exist yet, or training for people who are leaving one industry and moving to another? guest: i think both is true, although it's hard to predict the jobs that aren't here yet. we can look at the jobs that are here today and make some prognostications about whether they are likely to persist into the future. the most important types of training that we historically have under invested in and have not made as widely available as possible are the types of training that are really connected to good jobs immediately, at the end. things like apprenticeships and

work-based learning and page training experiences -- paid training experiences, where there is an employer on the others ready to hire folks who come out of those opportunities. that's important for our economy, but we have not always been set up to provide opportunities. instead, we lead people to enroll in programs that may or may not be linked to where the future jobs are going. you might finish a training program and not find a job on the others. one of the big focus is in this moment is how we create more of those fast track training opportunities to prepare people for jobs that are here right now? host: are we talking about changing the educational system? are we talking about adding a new component to the educational system? are we talking about post-education training, or all of the above? guest: i would argue all of the above. i think about this in three

ways. the first is the ecosystem of jobs and how we think about it. too often, this question has been isolated from all the other factors that affect someone's ability to finish a training program, get into a job and stay on the job. we know that things like access to childcare, transportation, mental health services really affects someone's ability to succeed in the labor market, but we often only think about the education people have and are not connecting to the broader pieces of the ecosystem to support someone to get into that good paying job and advancing the role. the second is around the types of training that are available and who we focus on. the vast share of u.s. spending on human capital development historically has been on people under the age of 22.

we know as the economy changes and people are much more likely to change jobs over many times over the verse of their lifetime -- change jobs many times over the course of their lifetime, there is a need to go back and change that. there needs to be a focus on adults and older workers who might be seeking out training opportunities, and our structure of training has not been set up to accommodate their lifestyles. if you have a family and are working a full-time job at the same time you are taking further education, the set up in terms of what training looks good for you and fits into your life is a lot different. but too much of the system right now has been set up for a traditional kind of college student, in the mindset. that's a big issue. the third thing, i would say, is that we also have not really invested equitably in the

institutions that train, particularly here, i want to call out the community college system, which plays such an important role in our system. it really serves the hardest to serve in terms of learners and workers. some of the older students, people who have children, lower income college students, more students of color, and we provide about $9,000 less in revenue per student for those types of two-year institutions compared to public four year colleges. at this point and the moment -- in the moment, we need to double down on the community college system and think, how can we equip them to be a front line to serve these workers who are looking to enter new careers and better paying opportunities at this moment? host: i see some of our online viewers are asking this question, so i will ask it of you as well -- didn't we have this name conversation years ago after nasa and the factory jobs

went away? didn't we have this conversation then? wasn't this problem supposed to be solved back then? guest: yeah, and that's what's so frustrating about where we have entered the pandemic. what's been done over the years, we have had some halfhearted and one-off investments in the workforce system. after the great recession, for instance, the stimulus package included some short-term support for the uptick in unemployed our expected to help them -- who were expected to help them access resume services and training services to help them get into new jobs. let years went by and we never got that funding. we kind of let things -- we said ok, we don't need any more funding, i guess. the policymakers neglected the system after this crisis moment, so some of the longer-term investments that are needed,

like updating the technology infrastructure so more workers can self navigate and figure out what types of training opportunities are available to them, how do they match with their current skills, where are the growing jobs in their region or the country, we have not made money available for states to holistically rethink, reinvest, and build better brand new systems for people to take advantage of. we have approached this with a short-term lens when it is warranting long-term, holistic views, because this is critical to american competitiveness. host: viewers can take part in this conversation about improving job training in the united states. we are opening up special lines. our first line will be for employers. if you are an employer, what kind of job training do you think your employees need?

what kind of work for the government do to get people back to work? employers, we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8000. if you are out there actively looking for work, what type of training do you think you need? what type of resources are you finding right now? if you are looking for work, we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8001. if you don't fit in either one of those categories but you still want to talk about this subject, your numbers going to be (202) 748-8002. that's for everyone else. (202) 748-8002. keep in mind, you can always text us at (202) 748-8003, and we are always reading on social media, on twitter, c-span -- twitter, @cspanwj, and facebook, at facebook.com/cspan. rachel, you say in your article

that we don't have a good national system to help workers. why don't we, and what would that well-functioning system actually look like? guest: yeah, i think one of the reasons why this has not been a national approach, to be honest, is federalism. have dedicated a lot of power to states and regions and localities to determine what their own strategies would be. for many decades, this made a lot of sense. the labor market is inherently local, or has been. regions need to work with their local employers to figure out what the needs are or are going to be, and we want to give localities some discretion in figuring out what their best strategies to serve the residents of their regions are. i argue in the article, we are in a bit of a different moment right now. the pandemic rise in hybrid and remote work arrangements has created in some ways a lot of

challenges, but also a lot of opportunities to think differently about the geography of jobs, where talent is and who can access it. many times, it had been a limitation for regions that were struggling and depressed and did not have a lot of good jobs existing in their areas. if you ask to them, what should they train for, and they can only look in the 10, 15, 20 mile radius of their zip code, the option should be limited. if you think about the types of jobs that can be completed from home, no matter where you are, or maybe you only need to commute, that can open up a lot of opportunities for workers to think about what they might train in and what jobs they want to enter. particularly in some of our growing technology roles in this country, i think there is a big opportunity there. but all of the incentives and all of the laws and all of the professionals who work in this

system have only been trained to think about their local region, their local locality, working with employers right there. i think it will require a longer-term shift to identify what are the biggest talent needs for the country as a whole, how can we make sure that every american has the potential to access some of the exciting and growing new economic opportunities that the 21st century provides. really create a system that is more flexible for those who want to live in one place but potentially work in another, made making sure those opportunities exist, while understanding that some jobs are going to always remain in person and require people to live close to their place of work. host: i will come back to the hybrid working question we were just talking about, but i have a comment from one of my social media followers -- our social media followers that i want you to address. we can barely afford one round

of college vocational training. this is unfeasible. how much money as the federal government putting into services and programs, and how much money should you spend after getting that first degree or vacation all training -- first-degree or vocational training? guest: this is a huge issue, and one that i hope congress will take on in the human infrastructure bill. but historically, i would agree with the caller. we have not created enough opportunities not just to access funding, but i would argue we need more opportunities where you can be stipended or paid on the job. some colleges, there will be good opportunities to access work experience in the field you are studying at the same time you are enrolled.

we need a lot more of that. we need to scale up so people can study simultaneously while gaining experience with the field they are working in, and we need more opportunities like apprenticeship, where you are making a living wage while acquiring credentials and skills that will help you move up the ladder in the long run, with a good job that is explicitly tied to the end of it. we need more pathways like that. that's necessary for adults to retrain. we need more funding in the system so folks don't have to dig into their own pockets -- not to say, stay out of work so you can train for multiple years while trying to care for a family. in many ways, that is not a realistic expectation for a large share of this country. host: let's start with our callers this morning. let's start with walter, calling from baltimore, maryland. good morning. caller: i am an old guy now, but

one question i wish she would address, if she can, number one, i got injured on the job and was forced to retire. but in the meantime, i got ripped off by my lawyer and the opposition lawyer on the workers comp case. i want to share with her, there's got to be more for us old people then serving coffee or a walmart greeter. that minimum wage b.s. is not enough to warrant today of standing on my foot, which was crushed, not being able to stock the shelves. you need to understand that senior citizens and folks who listen to this, please, before you leave your job, i don't care if you are making minimum wage -- get as much money saved up as you can, because i was shocked to find out that my income was

reduced by over 75%, almost 80% . that shock, then trying to get back out there and do some work is criminal. host: go ahead and respond, rachel? guest: i think the points the caller raised are critical and important. i would say in this moment, we have an opportunity as a country to look carefully at the kinds of jobs we have available and think about what the quality of those jobs are. i would argue that many of the jobs that are so critical to our society have been underpaid, don't have division benefits -- sufficient benefits, don't have sufficient flexibility, so there is a conversation going on in this moment about how we raise the quality of all jobs, but particularly around essential work that is critical for all of us to engage in this moment. i would argue words that --

argue that policymakers need to step in and take action the basic human needs are secured in all of our work opportunities. the second thing i would say, i am interested in policy ideas like insurance, so if you are transferring out of a job and willing to take a new job that pays you less than your previous job, the government i think should reward you for investing in work, and we should have opportunities for you to make up what you used to make, so we incentivize and reward people who have taken new jobs when all they can find is something that pays lower than what they made in the past. i think this would be an important policy that we could continue to experiment with and study, and hopefully give more people access to. host: several of our social media followers have brought up

this point. i will use this one tweet to bring this up to you. employers need to be forced to train people for jobs they need, as they are just importing trained workers so easily. we need to push big business to train citizens. what is the comparison between businesses bringing in workers from other countries versus framing workers who live in this country? is that a problem we see going on right now? guest: absolutely. i think we need to do much better jobs and our policy framework of rewarding those employers that invest in their workforce and create opportunities for their own workers to move up the ladder and get access to better paying opportunities. there is a pending bill in the house right now that deals with tax treatment of investments and employer training that argues, basically, that we should treat

investments and training the same way we treat employers that invest in research and development, or in buying equipment. why do we not reward employers who are spending money on allowing their workers to get new skills, that translate into better opportunities on the job? i think that is really important. i think we are seeing a bit of employers realizing that they will see returns if they really dedicate the resources to giving the employees that are currently in their employee base the opportunity to access training and new opportunities and access ladders of upward advancement in their own firms. firms that do this in many ways are competitively superior to others in the industry that are

churning through new workers constantly, wasting resources to get people up to speed and then people quit? that's not a sustainable way to run your business. we need more cases of workers who make that long-term investment in their employees, clear pathways for how someone can move up in the firm, and we will see it's good for workers, good for business, and good for the u.s. economy. host: let's talk to frank, calling from florida. good morning. caller: good morning. yes, rachel, i would like you to address three issues that i have. i was a union pipefitter in chicago, now living in florida. have you ever addressed the union trade programs we have across this country, to do the work that these contractors need? second, why did all the high schools in this country do away with vocational training? third, living in florida and

being a former union worker, i see the quality of the work that goes on down here. the biggest mistake countries -- the country made when going to a right to work state, people are saying, i got bad work done, but the contractor has to be licensed. his employees do not. thank you. host: go ahead and respond, rachel. guest: do your first question and comment, i would say the skills trade in particular, skilled trades and apprenticeships are a model for the rest of the country in terms of creating a clear pathway into a good paying career trajectory. what i would argue, we need more of it and more of it in more industries. that model has historically been

limited in a lot of ways to jobs like construction and manufacturing, to some extent. we see less of it in health care or i.t., so how can we create similar models and partner with unions to go into new sectors in the economy. on the second piece, vocational education, i think we have a big opportunity at this moment to reinvest and make a push around more career exposure opportunities, or even starting in american middle school. historically, vocational education for some parents was viewed as a track into dead-end jobs and was not viewed as prestigious. there was also a lot of racial discrimination and tracking into who went into a vocational path and who was deemed to be on the college path. that has been a real mistake and something we need to overcome in

the 21st century. i am in favor of a model that makes sure all high school students have exposure to career opportunities. in the words of my colleague at harvard, he likes to talk about how do we ensure all students are college and career ready, so they have exposure to meaningful work experience, meaningful career opportunities while enrolled in high school? that does not have to be at all counter to getting academic exposure for a college pathway. we need to do both and make those opportunities across-the-board available to all students, not just a subset. host: let's go to david, calling from texas. good morning. caller: good morning. i hate to start off by disagreeing with everything you are saying. i am 70 years old, probably will be working until i am 90.

i work in systems management, so self-employed most of my life, self employed for the last 22 years. i walked down the hallway and go to my job. everything you are talking about has all been tried before. we have had cycles of business, uptimes and downtimes. there is an economic cycle and crashes all the time, mostly because of government interference and the federal reserve has done a terrible job since it was formed in 1913. the educational part -- whenever i have gone to hire people, the biggest problem i have, even though i am in the technology business, most people can't read and write, especially right, well enough. their english is not good enough, just basics that will help them with whatever career path they need. the schools have become, over the past 40 or 50 years, have become more interested in social justice than training kids for the basics and get them on

a path where they can go. they will change their minds about things they want to do, too. but maybe they will find themselves on one of those career paths you talk about, because people say, you need to go to college -- i never went to college. i have had high-level corporate jobs and never worked in anything like management. the biggest difference now, and the only one i would say that exists that is different, is the government interference, causing more problems. individuals have more opportunity to get this education, to learn these skills and do whatever they are interested in by going online. it's amazing, the difference of the opportunity. the government involvement is the kiss of death. you mentioned federalism, helping things at the lower level -- but the education in part needs to be done away with. leave the money in the states. there is no point in that. it's a waste of money to centralize this.

host: go ahead and respond there, rachel. guest: i disagree with the fundamental assumption that nothing has changed or nothing is different in this particular moment. i think if you go around to colleges and different types of post secondary education institutions around the country, there is a mindset that is shifting, that is recognizing that this time is different. particularly around the economic mission around why many people speak out on higher education. it's not just for learning. people see college as the upward escalator, as an ability to get access to the american dream. i think over the last few years and particularly in covid, the changing circumstances in the ground are making educational institutions think differently about their role. it's not only to educate, but to create those pathways into good

jobs. we owe it to young people and workers all over this country to make those investments, so education can connect better to jobs. we have not fully tried that in the past, so i think there is an incredible opportunity at this moment to double down on that mission and to make sure that when americans invest or pursue an educational opportunity, it will deliver on that promise, which is a large reason of why they sought out that opportunity to begin with. host: i want to go back to a topic we were discussing earlier, remote or hybrid work. i want to read a little bit from your article about how it has skyrocketed in the united states. the volume of fully remote postings nationally has skyrocketed, up 457% from may 2020 to may 2020 one, according to linkedin. research indicates that higher

wage, highly educated workers are more likely to work in remote eligible roles. but for the same reasons many community college students and adult learners expressed continued preference for distance learning, to care for family, reduce commuting costs, and to minimize health risks, remote work appears to have broad appeal. remote job postings made up about 10% of listings in may, but attracted almost a quarter of all applications. and the rate is trending higher. for jobs that don't require college degrees as opposed to those that do. guest: i think the future is hybrid. we will see increasing amounts of time workers spend at home, but in a lot of sectors and

industries, some continued office presence. the key feature will be flexibility. people will have changed their schedules and habits over the course over the last year and a half, and realized in a lot of ways, there are aspects of working from home or another setting that are much more conducive to other parts of life outside of work, spending time with family, caregiving, to responsibilities in the community. so i don't think we are going back to where we were before. that's one of the points i am trying to make in the article, that flexibility that so many have appreciated should not be something that is limited to high wage workers. we should aspire to make more flexible accommodations available to all workers in this economy, so everyone who has to care for family members or children or who had a long commute is able to shape out more time in their lives than on other things that matter outside of their jobs.

host: there are some jobs we know cannot be done remotely -- law enforcement. retail. some fast food jobs. this job i am sitting in right now -- i can't do this remotely. what sectors are going to be affected most by people wanting these hybrid or remote jobs? guest: today, we are certainly seeing large shares of people in i.t., like our last caller, finance, certain business operations sectors, but there are also nontraditional types of roles where remote is growing. customers who have worked in call centers -- it's not clear that that still needs to be in a big office building or, could you login and feel -- field calls from the comfort of your living room. even sectors of health care will have a huge in-person presence,

but there are many tasks and roles that don't require you to be in person every day, whether it is more administrative functions or working with client s. some people prefer doing those things from the comfort of their living room. not nearly every job will be fully hybrid or remote, but it's also clear that we are not going back. there are a lot of roles people before the pandemic never conceived of being able to do outside of an office or workspace. what we have proven in this experiment over the last year and a half, not only are those jobs able to be done from home, in many cases, american workers have proven themselves to be more productive when given that extra two hours a day from the commute or being able to be closer and more present to their family members. host: let's go back to our phone

lines, and talk to bill, calling from illinois. good morning. caller: good morning. it's a pleasure to talk to you about this very important subject. first up, where i disagree with the idea that this is a federal problem. the second point, that was made by a previous caller, when i went to high school -- i mean, if you went to college and got a college degree, you had sort of a secure life. that's no longer true. we also had, for people who are not college-bound, this was in the 1950's -- people would get out out of school a little early, they would go work someplace -- sometimes it was for financial reasons, sometimes it was to learn things. we taught auto repair, woodshop.

there were a lot of interesting things going on after school. a lot of high schools have eliminated all of this. all of this. the point i would make, i think if you are going to ask companies to assume some of this burden, there has to be some incentives to invest in these people. in other words, it is structured so they are not just wasting their money training people, they are training people who may be long-term employees. i think this is a terrific topic, and i thank you for it. host: go ahead and respond, rachel. guest: i guess i would say a few things. the first is around employers, they have a huge role to play in this. i agree, those who do this well and invest in their people

should be rewarded for that in some way, although we will likely see it in the long run in terms of the productivity of their workforce and their ability to compete. we need better structures for employers to actually engage with an education system. it can't fully be on the high schools to try and figure out or gas what's going on in the economy and what jobs are going to be needed. some of those jobs require the employer community to be present and shape the types of jobs or types of skills we want our education system to be training for. i don't get is a fair expectation of educators in the system to do that work on their own. host: let's talk to bobby, calling from chattanooga, tennessee. good morning. caller: good morning. i have been an employer and an

employee, and i also have come up through government training's. i was in a training program in the 1960's where the government actually paid for my childcare and for my transportation, for me to go to school and get my ged and get office training. from that training, you know, i became a very good employee, i develop leadership skills, i went up to $60,000, $70,000 a year and became the executive director of a nonprofit, because helping people was my natural ability. the problem was, no one ever came back and tracked what happened with those programs. it's like, we keep reinventing programs like they are new, and

they are not new. it's just they have not been followed through and tracked. it's money thrown at it and when that trend goes away or that pot of money goes away, there is no follow-up done. i believe if there is, you will find that investment in human capital will never fail. host: go ahead and response to her, rachel. guest: first of all, thanks for sharing that inspiring story. it's a good example of why we need more stories like that. there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of americans who could tell similar stories, when someone invested in them, they pay it back forward in earnings over the course of their lifetime as a u.s. taxpayer. these types of success stories are important. i agree on both fronts.

the lack of tracking and data in the workforce historically has been a problem for many years now. unfortunately, unlike k-12 or higher education in the college system, these sets of short-term training programs are kind of disparate. they sit in different sectors, they might be a for-profit provider, a nonprofit provider, a community-based organization. while there have been attempts in legislation to select good data on the outcomes of how people are doing in these programs, data is not particularly actionable. we need more resources invested in doing that tracking, because i also agree with the point in some cases that we don't need more programs, we need investment to help scale and expand them. there are programs in the sector

that are not doing well, where they are training people for dead-end jobs or there is not a job on the other end, and they need to stop spending public money on programs like that. but the programs that are proven models, that have led to long-term wage outcomes for the participants as well as great outcomes for businesses and communities, we need to give the resources to those types of programs to expand the communities they serve and create expanded access for more people to add access to those proven models. i think doing that will require good data. i know the workforce innovation and opportunity act is currently up for discussion on reauthorization, and we need to create better data systems so we can answer the questions of which programs are working well and which ones are not. host: let's talk to colleen,

calling from indian wells, california. good morning. caller: good morning. i want to speak to the community college aspect of this discussion. i am a community college professor and department chairman, and consumer family science. we started out with some specific programs in childhood development, foodservice, fashion and retail. a person could come in and take three classes and get their birth certificate -- first certificate, then go on to other certificates. in order to get the curriculum going, i established advisory committees. i figured exactly what our local community needed and they were kind of mentors and coordinated

with getting the jobs in the field. we had to change the curriculum for the hours that people were working in the field, so they could come back, and that required a lot of late afternoon and evening classes. we were looking at the student needs and of course, childcare on site. at the college, that was a real component that helped. people wanted to bring their child at all these different hours. the problems we had again, like someone else mentioned, language, reading, and math skills. that component needs to be beefed up at the high school level so that more people are ready. the college i worked at actually had developmental classes in all of those three fields. host: we are running out of time, so go ahead and respond to her, rachel. guest: she did a great job of describing a lot of the factors,

opportunities, and challenges that exist in the community college setting and i commend the work they have done to create work in ways that are stackable, so when you get a certificate, it can lead into an associates degree. to the last point on english skills and other types of basic skills, certainly there is a lot of need there. some of the most interesting research i have seen on this question is pointing to the importance of not doing english training on its own, but contextualizing it into work or career experience. instead of working someone into a remedial english class, where they might get stuck for 2, 3, four semesters, and may give up and drop out, how can you build english skills simultaneously while building skills specific to the career pathway that the person wants to embark upon? that will require a more integrated approach from community colleges and faculty

and support staff, but the evidence on this is pretty promising in the early run, and i am excited to see more and more schools adopting this approach. host: we would like to thank rachel lipson, the director of the project on workforce at harvard university, for being here and talking to us about her article in boston globe magazine. our job-training program is stuck in the 1960's: our american workers deserve better. thank you so much. guest: thank you so much, and thanks to all the callers. host: i would like to thank our viewers, callers, and guests for being with us on "washington journa. -- "washington journal." [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

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