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how federal employees could be affected by a government shutdown. california democratic congressman judy chu on the potential government shutdown and upcoming action on president biden's agenda in the future of roe v. wade. washington journal is next. next. ♪ host: the debt limit debate on capitol hill is a partisan struggle between republicans and democrats. the spending decisions to be made, votes on the $1 trillion infrastructure bill and a larger $3.5 trillion reconciliation to expand social spending is mostly an interparty fight between the progressive caucus and moderate members. how that is solved is uncertain but it is the key to even just voting on those bills. it is wednesday, september 29,

2021. welcome to washington journal. first half hour we open it up for democrats only to find out your top spending priorities, especially this week. we break up the lines like this. if you consider yourself a progressive democrat, the line is (202)-748-8000. moderate democrats use (202)-748-8001. anyone can text us at (202)-748-8003. tell us your name and where you are from. we will look for your posts on facebook and comments on twitter and instagram @c-spanwj. when the house is in session members get a daily update from the key leaders in the house on both sides, including the majority leader. many members of the media as well so we can follow what is going on, what the schedule is

like. this is from the majority leader. tells us if the house is coming in for morning business at 10:00 and legislative business at noon but there is uncertainty. first votes predicted, question mark. legislation providing funding for 2022, possible consideration related to the debt limit, and additional items are possible. this is because of the uncertainty over the infrastructure plan, over that $3.5 trillion measure. taking a look at how rollcall is reporting moderate and democrats , progressives are not budging as infrastructure deadline looms. they write, they hope to have an agreement between moderate and progressive democrats on a

framework for partisan spending in the next 48 hours to ease passage of another bill. but many progressive democrats say the elusive framework is not enough to secure their support for the infrastructure bill scheduled for vote on thursday. they want more concrete assurances on how democrats will pass the party's larger priorities contained in the reconciliation package. they fear letting the infrastructure bill pass could give them hesitation on the broader package. it would fund climate programs and provide government assistance for childcare, paid leave, free community college and more. since republicans oppose most of the policies it means they cannot lose a single democratic vote in the senate or more than three in the house and there have been more than a handful raising concerns.

this first half hour democrats only. progressives, your line is (202)-748-8000. moderate democrats, (202)-748-8001. what are your spending priorities? how can this issue be resolved between those two factions in the democratic party? the speaker of the house was asked yesterday about the decision to separate those measures in terms of their consideration when they had been linked before. [video clip] >> i thought we were on a path. we had a commitment of $3.5 trillion. all of our committees participated in writing their bills saturday and everybody worked on schedule. everybody was on schedule. by september 15 the bills were finished.

by saturday it was by the budget committee but we are still operating at the $3.5 trillion. there was intervention in the last week or 10 days saying we can't go there. we will see what that is. hopefully it will reach the level that we need in order to pass both bills. we will pass both bills. host: that was the speaker yesterday. here is the hill this morning headline, democrats search for sweet spot with a look at senator dick durbin and the chair of the caucus say democrats are trying to find their new sweet spot on a sweeping spending package at the heart of president biden's agenda. but the reality setting in the long figure of $3.5 trillion is not going to be the top line of loads of progressives who

already viewed it as compromise. democratic leadership are actively trying to figure out what their competing factions can live with. clinching a price tag that could win 50 votes in the senate and nearly every house democrat would be a significant step forward for biden and congressional democrats amid a rocky period marked by infighting. democrats only this first half hour. your thoughts on the spending priority for democrats in the house. progressives call (202)-748-8000 . moderates (202)-748-8001. on the democratic moderate line jim from highland park, new jersey. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. my top priority with the budget is the infrastructure.

the thousands of bridges and thousands of miles of roads have to be reconstructed or repaved, renovated, or what have you. and as far as the debt goes, how are we going to pay for all of the sectors of the economy that are in the budget? if the republicans would stop their shenanigans, may be the debt limit will be raised. host: on the progressive line les in nevada. caller: thank you for taking my call. my most important thing is what

is in this bill that can get us looking ahead instead of treading water? all this infrastructure stuff is stuff that needed to be done for 20 years. [indiscernible] we got a chance to get this going. we need to pass that and then we need to turn around and make them stay there until we get a vote. nobody goes nowhere. no more stinking vacations. they stand there and grind the stone. pass the damn saying. thank you. host: thank you.

mike in patterson, new jersey on the moderate line. caller: hello. read the bill. anything that is long, it is a scam. nobody should be monitoring the finance. i say, monitor joe. they want to do other things besides infrastructure. if you read the bill, you will find out. with obamacare, you found out after you passed it. you don't read the bill, you don't pass it. first of all, why should they monitor the budget unless they steal our money? why would you monitor what i put in the bank and take out? why? is this a build back better socialism country? it does not sound like build back better it sounds like tear

this country down with debt, tear this country down with open borders, tear this country down and rebuild it. host: lines for democrats moderates (202)-748-8000, progressives (202)-748-8001. steve scalise talked about what is at stake in passing this measure. [video clip] >> this week we are going to see an epic battle play out between free-market capitalism and big government socialism. that's what's at stake. when you see speaker pelosi's actions these last few months it has been to massively grow the size of government to appease her radical socialist base. you are seeing the american people across the country express anger and frustration because they are paying the cost already with higher inflation.

inflation is through the roof are so many things people buy every day. when you go to the grocery store you are paying 30%, 40% more. if you want to new appliance, you will wait months and still pay a higher cost. president biden already broke his promise that his actions will not impact the paychecks of people making under $400,000 a year. because the hardest working americans are the ones paying the biggest cost for the inflation already created by president biden's failed agenda and now they want to double down on it and put it on steroids. this would be inflation on steroids, tax increases like we have never seen. the package speaker pelosi is trying to bring to the floor this week would be over $5.5 trillion of new taxes and spending. much of it added to the deficit. all under the name of leveling the playing field.

tell that to hard-working families who were already paying too much in taxes. host: this first half hour we are asking democrats only. your spending priorities and the lines for progressive democrats and moderate. via text dave in orlando says, take off $3 million on each one. if they do not stop acting like republicans who block everything. joey north carolina, the roads and bridges are suffering. people do not understand how climate changes to string infrastructure. first priority eliminate the filibuster. rebuild our country, electric bread, address climate change, solar, electric cars, better health care, expand medicare. susan from highland, new york, just take care of the people we voted for. we believe in you and do the

right thing. take care of people. that is what you are therefore. stop playing games. take care of the people. on our progressive line this is salem, illinois and john. good morning. caller: good morning. boy, that steve scalise clip set me off. my priority would be education and that is not socialism. free community college and free four year college would not be socialism. i took a class twice a week and i could not go to college could today. it is so expensive. everything is stacked against them, especially when it comes to college aid and the price of college has gone up dramatically. it is a no-brainer, especially

for democrats. we don't want dumb people. let's educate them so they don't vote republican and for steve scalise. of course, they call everything socialism but free education is not socialism. democrats need to double down on that and make that a priority. we need to realize we do not have the biggest majority. there are only 48 senators that identify as democrat and two independents. there needs to be negotiation on the $3.5 trillion. that is a lot of money. but there is room to negotiate. if cut in half, as far as i am concerned as long as we get the free community college, i would be happy. host: baltimore, maryland, emma on the moderate line. caller: good morning i think you for taking my call.

host: you bet. caller: i do not have the problem with the progressive agenda and i think socialism is just a catchphrase. i have a problem that the democrats air their dirty laundry constantly. my position is, get it done. i don't care what you got to do. i don't care if you have to take something out. get it done. i am so sick and tired of my party fighting amongst themselves. i compared it to the republicans. they don't care what the proposition does. they will lie, cheat and move on. i am not saying that is the position we should take, but i have had enough of the back fighting and constantly, we are not going to give this. give something but you're going

to be outcome 2022. thank you for taking my call. host: senator bernie sanders has a piece in usa today. usatoday.com, for america's sake we cannot cut the $3.5 trillion spending piece. the chairman of the senate budget committee, i proposed a $6 trillion reconciliation bill that will address the problems. strong majority of the democratic caucus proposed the bill but not all. we compromised to reduce that to $3.5 trillion. this would not add to the deficit and would pay by demanding the wealthiest and large corporations pay their fair share of taxes. pundits say we should compromise even more and cut back on addressing the problems facing working families as well as climate change. really? tell me where we should cut. he says, this bill is opposed by every republican congress as well as drug companies, insurance companies, the fossil

fuel industry and billionaire class. they want to maintain the status quo. well, says senator standards, it is time for congress to have the courage to take on those that have the power in the country. ben in maryland, go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have got to be honest, i think senator sanders is correct. it should be higher. it should be more than $3.5 trillion. there was a lot that needs to be done to this country and not just infrastructure but for schools in general. my wife is a teacher in maryland and there are several schools that don't have air conditioning and they have had to send students home because it is too hot. it is absolutely appalling that there are people out there that would rather spend that money on whatever it is except for our children. who was going to be running the

country in a couple of years? honestly, the republicans should have jackets like nascar cars with sponsors on them because why isn't anybody going after people like jeff bezos and amazon who pay less taxes than i have the past couple of years? these are companies that could be paying this bill without any kind of tax increase to the middle class and that is all i have to say about that. host: greg in colorado on the moderate line. democrats only this first half hour. caller: thank you for taking my call and thank you for c-span. i would have to agree with the last caller all the way. it is time that the richest billionaires and 1% of this country start paying their fair share.

i totally agree with most of the package. i do have a problem with the child tax credit. i believe there already is child tax credit and i don't know. i have a hard time seeing how people just want to stay home and have kids and expect them to be paid for by everyone else. i don't have children. i don't want children. and i am starting to get tired of paying for everyone else's kids. host: also on capitol hill yesterday and today hearings before the armed services committee. yesterday before the senate and today before the house. the chairman of the joint chiefs, defense secretary, and general mckenzie testifying on the withdrawal from afghanistan. this is the headline, one of many in the washington post military, leaders criticize trump's exit deal. much of the session involved

lawmakers depending on their party trying to enlist the general's support and blaming trump or biden for the failures of the past and afghanistan's uncertain future. general milley revealed during one exchange it was not until august 25, 10 days before the taliban swept into the capital, and less than one week before the u.s. military personnel left that the joint chiefs of staff made the unanimous recommendation to biden he withdraw all troops rather than prolong the evacuation. biden had highlighted that recommendation to defend his decision to leave afghanistan without mentioning it came only after the taliban had taken control of kabul. republicans seized on those admissions to accused biden of lying to the american people about his military advisor's recommendations and misleading the country about how fully the evacuation of americans and eligible afghans would be carried out. senator tom cotton challenged

general milley to explain why he did not resign in protest. [video clip] >> general milley, i can only conclude your advice about staying in afghanistan was rejected. i am shocked to learn your advice was not sought on stain past the deadline. i understand you are the principal military advisor, you do not decide, but if this is true, why haven't you resigned? >> senator, as a senior military officer resigning is a serious thing, it is a political act. my job is to provide advice, legal advice or best military advice to the president and that is my legal requirement. the president does not have to agree with that advice, he does not have to make those decisions because we are generals.

it would be an incredible act of political defiance for a commissioned officer to resign because my advice is not taken. this country does not want generals figuring out what orders we are going to accept and do or not. that is not our job. the principles in control of the military is critical and absolute. from a personal standpoint, my dad did not get the choice to resign in iwo jima. i am not going to turn my back on them. they cannot resign so i am not going to resign. no way. if the orders are illegal, we are in a different place. but if they are legal, i intend to carry them out. host: back to our conversation with you about the -- democrats only this half hour. top spending priorities, particularly with the debate in the house. this is a headline from the hill on some of that decision-making

debate and compromise, left wants pelosi -- warns pelosi they will take down biden infrastructure bill. on progressive democrats line we go to matt in maryland. caller: how are you doing today? host: fine. caller: that last headline, it is typical republicans would think you have to quit because someone does not agree with you. at any rate, i seriously believe unless the republicans think we live in the age of one people rely on trolley cars, septic tanks, i think we need to raise the ceiling. i think it is unrealistic not to raise the ceiling. we are living in different times. technology, prices are higher, more expensive to live and that is no reason -- and that is reason to raise taxes on people. the corporation, there are about

80 corporations that we know of that have not paid any taxes. this is ridiculous. they are dodging raising taxes on the people that should be paying otherwise we would be fine. thank you. host: newark, new jersey, james on the moderate line. caller: good morning. i have been studying this very intensely and my suggestion is this. infrastructure bill, pass it. but the $3.5 trillion? no. every human being in the united states that is making under $1 million a year and some leftover

to get these people to fix up the schools. host: tyrone in new york, progressive democrats line. good morning. caller: how you doing? good morning. when it comes to politics it is strange republicans believe in the trickle-down effect when it comes to money that makes other people rich, but when it comes to not giving a handout but helping people who have fallen so they can better their lives, they call that socialism. these politicians are a bunch of hypocrites. they have not said nothing about property tax bill in three of the major states which is california, new york and new jersey where you can only write off up to $10,000.

you could pay $20,000 in property taxes but you can only write off $10,000. it was trump that put this into effect that helped nobody but the rich. host: this is an opinion piece by charlie sykes, active political malpractice. congress plays multiple games of chicken. perhaps you are under the impression the political class was comprised of serious people who recognize we are facing multiple existential challenges, insurrections, disinformation, fraud, pandemic, and the real prospect of a constitutional crisis. and yet, congress chooses to play multiple games of high-stakes political chicken because apparently, we do get the government we deserve. read that at thebulwark.com. democrats tried yesterday to advance a measure to suspend the

debt ceiling. this is the majority leader chuck schumer on the floor before the effort failed in the u.s. senate. [video clip] >> let's see if republicans truly want what they say they want. we are not asking them to vote yes. if republicans want to vote to not pay the debt they helped incur, they can all vote no. we are just asking republicans, get out of the way. get out of the way when you are risking the full faith and credit of the united states to play a nasty political game. we can bring this to a resolution today. using the drawn out and convoluted reconciliation process is far too risky, far too risky. too many american families are at stake. far better for us to solve this

problem right here, right now. host: just a couple of comments on social media. liz from nbc, congresswoman from michigan was onto early. some house democrats are frustrated they don't know where the president stands on infrastructure. biden needs to speak to more than just two centers. this one says, in my the only one that thinks it is good to get money in the hands of poor people, lee in the valda. invest in renewable energy and our children's education. a quote from the hill this morning referring to the handful of conservative democrats working to block the agenda as moderates does grave harm to the english language and unfairly maligned my colleagues who are moderate, yet by a large,

understand the stakes of this moment said representative mondaire jones. democrats only until 7:30. we go to doug in maryland. good morning. caller: my big issue is early childhood education. i think that is a big investment where we can get a return. i also think some of the taxes we plan on raising should not go to new spending. we should look at paying down our budget deficit. we incurred a big deficit under republican administrations. democrats need to start paying it off. thank you. host: thank you for that. gwen in detroit, progressive democrat. caller: hi, hi. my big concern is this question here, democrats or conservative?

not conservative -- progressive or moderate. don't cut me off. this is a division. we are just democrats period. you never had republicans call in and split them up like that. i don't like that. the progressives need to stand their ground. these other moderates, they are in red states. that's what they are. they are not in democrat states. so, moderates need to hang in there and keep fighting because they cannot leave the average people behind. host: we will go to our moderate line in new jersey. larry, go ahead. caller: good morning. i just feel without compromise and agreement between the

democrats this whole deal is going to fail in the control of the house and the senate and probably the white house will go to the republicans. the progressives need to wake up. thank you. host: we will continue our conversation on this issue and more coming up on washington journal. next up is the first of two legislatures that will join us today. oklahoma's republican representative tom cole will join about the potential of a government shutdown and action on the infrastructure plan. later partnership for public service's max stier will tell how a government shutdown could affect federal employees. ♪

announcer: 7:05 p.m. eastern watch on c-span.org or the new video app, c-span now. announcer: miguel cardona and javier becerra testify on schools reopening during the covered 19 pandemic. live coverage of the senate health and committee hearing begins at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span3 and online at c-span.org. you can also watch full coverage on c-span now, our new video app. ♪ announcer: get c-span on the go. watch the day's biggest political events on demand or live on the new mobile video app. access top highlights, listen to c-span radio, and discover new podcasts for free.

download c-span now today. ♪ announcer: washington journal continues. host: congressman tom cole is with us, republican representative from oklahoma. oklahoma's for the district for 10 terms now. welcome to washington journal. guest: great to be with you. host: lots to talk about but let's do a little history from last week. your vote last week on the continuing resolution which would have suspended the debt ceiling through december of next year. on that vote, what was your reason for voting against that bill in particular and your opposition to the way democrats are proposing to raise the debt ceiling? guest: my opposition was the debt ceiling. i have no problem for a clean, continuing resolution with agreed-upon additions. we agreed there needs to be extra money to take care of refugees arriving. we certainly all agree we need disaster relief for the

hurricane damage along the coast. those of the types of things you would normally put with a continuing resolution. the debt ceiling is another matter and i think the reason is democrats have shut republicans out of spending decisions all year long. it was not that way in 2020. we worked together on appropriations bills passed with overwhelming majority and, as i like to point out, five pandemic reliefs sever almost as much as the entire budget with overwhelming majority. republicans and democrats can work together but democrats chose from the beginning of this year with the $1.9 trillion coronavirus bill, which they could have had a compromise, but they used reconciliation. they are doing the same thing now. i think if they are going to do all the spending by themselves, they incur the obligation and frankly, they have the ability to raise the debt ceiling on

their own. they have the votes to do it. host: is it your sense that continuing resolution will come up as a clean measure by itself without the debt ceiling? guest: i think that is the case. if that is the case, i will support that. there is no need to shut down the government and we get strong bipartisan support to get it open while would negotiate on the appropriations bills. frankly, the democrats need the time to work out their own internal differences. the big debate on capitol hill, the most paralyzing, is actually within the democratic party between moderates and progressives. host: certainly your party could have influence on that vote. the headline from the politics section washington times says, the progressives are poised to stick the infrastructure bill with republican help. the speaker would need 60 republican defections to pass the bill. guest: i think that is true but

first of all, the bill itself is not paid for. it was advertised it would be paid for. according to the girl congressional budget office, $400 billion short. second, nobody in the house -- including my democratic colleagues -- were part of this project. this was crafted in the senate. that is not how legislation works. it should have gone to the transportation committee and we could have worked out a house version of the bill. that was not done and finally, the democrats are the ones that have forced this. they have said, this bill and the other bill both have to go together. republicans are never going to vote for the reconciliation bill. that is $3.5 trillion of spending, new taxes, new debt. once democrats made the decision

to link the bills together they basically lost a lot of republicans that might otherwise support them because they are going to say, i'm not going to grease the skid. i cannot justify that to the voters i represent. host: what's interesting is to hear you talk about the debate from earlier this year over the $1.9 trillion pandemic emergency spending measure. it sounds like there are scars from republicans of being left out of that consideration. guest: i think there are. surprisingly congress in 2020 function, i would argue and most would disagree, pretty well. from february on once covid hit you had enormous bipartisan agreement. we had agreements with the democrats and substantial bipartisan agreements on all 12

bills into one larger bill. it was passed with strong bipartisan support. congress even cooperated in overwriting president trump's veto of the national defense authorization act. 2020 congress did pretty well. this year democrats, because they are under norma's pressure from their side controlling the house, senate, and presidency, i think your side expects you to produce big things. they made the decision early on we are going to move forward without republican support, we are going to do things we want to do -- fair enough -- you used constitutional tools but you cannot leave the site out for an entire year and when something difficult comes along saying, we want you to forget that and join us. there are scars from that decision but i think it has been a continuing decision and, with all due respect to speaker

pelosi, it is the way she prefers to act. she does not like to do things in a bipartisan way. the left wing in her own caucus does not want to do that either. host: tom cole is our guest, congressman from oklahoma. he is with us until 8:00 a.m. eastern. for democrats it is (202)-748-8000, republicans (202)-748-8001, and independents and others (202)-748-8002. before we get to those calls i want to play the comments of the treasury secretary on the perilous state she sees the country in should the debt ceiling not be attended to. here is what she had to say in testimony. [video clip] >> it is imperative the congress addressed the debt limit. if not, our current estimate is the treasury will likely exhaust its extraordinary measures by october 18. at that point we expect the treasury would be left with

limited resources that would be depleted quickly. america would default for the first time in history. the full faith and credit would be impaired and our country would likely face a financial crisis and economic recession. we must address this issue to honor commitments made by this empire congresses, including those made to address the health and economic impact of the pandemic. it is necessary to avert a catastrophic event forever economy. senators, the debt ceiling has been raised or suspended 78 times since 1960. almost always on a bipartisan basis. my hope is we can work together to do so again and build a stronger american economy f or future generations. host: do you think there will be

working together or will the ceiling be raised by democrats? guest: the democrats have the votes to do it. it already passed the house and now would have to come back if it fails the senate, which it is going to do. the democrats have the votes. they decide they're going to make the spending decisions. they did not want to work in a bipartisan fashion. reconciliation is a bipartisan instrument. it is something in the toolbox so i accepted that. i think is the end i think we get there. i think republicans made it clear they will facilitate the vote. they will provide the votes you need to get to the actual straight up decision where it could pass with 51 votes in the senate, but i do not think they are likely to provide any or very many votes for passage. it is going to take democratic

decision to use the tools available. they have not hesitated to do that to this point. i am not sure why they are struggling now. host: one more topic before we get to our callers. many viewers and listeners see you most often in the rules committee meetings. you have one coming up today, you are the ranking member. fox news news reported the committee democrats have stymied some of the proceedings by a measure called resolutions of inquiry, preventing republicans from doing that. tell us about that and what the issue is and how it may be resolved. guest: this is a constitutional tool that was suspended during the time of the pandemic. but we are past that now and this is a tool that allows committees and the minority in particular to pass resolutions and ask questions to the biden demonstration. there is a constitutional responsibility to respond. the biden administration has

been spared that so to speak by this particular measure. hopefully at some point they will let go of it. my friend and colleague on the rules committee, jim mcgovern, and i look at the world differently politically but he is an institutionalist and a guy you can work with. i have a lot of respect for him. at some point i think they will come around but we are going to raise the issue because -- i think this is probably the speaker's decision -- the minority is being denied the tool to hold the majority and administration accountable. i do not think we have ever done that and i think democrats need to let us have that tool back and ask tough questions of the biden administration. there is a lot to inquire on. everything from afghanistan, to the southern border, to the state of the economy. legitimate points of debate and we ought to have the ability to

force the administration to respond. host: let's go to calls and hear from debra in west chester, ohio, republican line. caller: good morning. you are the perfect person for me to talk to. as a scientist i never solved a single problem by talking about broad issues emotionally. i want to get back to regular order. something i would love to see in our future is before a bill can be voted on one month prior the american people would have the opportunity to see the bullet points of the bill. there are things in that $3.5 trillion i would definitely support such as universal pre-k. i would support that. however, i do not want to increase the inheritance tax on the family farm. i am a strong environmentalist. not saying i am a -- that is

another subject -- but we need more family farms. that is where the innovation is going in terms of carbon neutral, raising cattle, etc. the large corporations, especially in poultry, pollute the environment, steroids, antibiotics, they even advertise in mexico for workers. people can look at that but you get my point. we need rules and regulations on how we allow the american people to know what is in the bills we are going to pass before congress votes on the. host: thanks, deborah. guest: i could not agree more and the caller makes a variety of excellent points. in a bill that is the length of this one there are going to be things i would agree with but there is a lot of things we don't agree with as well. again, that gets down to have democrats want to move legislation forward. this is the most evenly divided

congress since 1884. nobody alive has ever seen a congress this closely divided. that would argue for bipartisanship and dealmaking, something which president biden ran on his ability to do that, and quite honestly, demonstrated that for many years of the senate. it is a mystery to us why he has abandoned that approach and my friends across the aisle think there will be comments of access. congress works in a difficult year surprisingly well in 2020, probably because there was balance of power. democrats control the house, republicans control the house and presidency. i think the country would be served better by that and what your caller said, giving the american people time to understand what is in legislation. this is a work in progress still. quite frankly, we do not know what is in the $3.5 trillion bill.

we sort of know what is in the house version. 1% or 2% scored that as the congressional budget office and we know it will change dramatically in the senate. manchin and sinema said they would not support spending at this level. let's have a strategic pause, slow this thing down, and see what can be done. i think there is a desire to go as far, as fast as possible by the democrats because they think this could be a fleeting moment where they control the presidency, house and senate. they are trying to get as much done as they can. i understand that but they do not have the majority to justify the proposals they are putting forward. host: we go to brookfield, illinois. earl on the independent line. caller: good morning. representative cole, you had

said earlier that you were not happy about the idea that republicans were not asked to participate and as i have been watching this stuff for years, if the republicans were asked to participate, what happened in the past is that would drag the thing along and drag it along and when it came time to do something they would torpedo things. that just seems to be the common practice. it seems to be that as with the party is all about and it is very disheartening, especially when we are talking about things like what the public supports, which the majority supports this big bill. when we are talking about things about the budget and talking

about whether or not the united states -- excuse me, i am winded -- is going to go into foreclosure, it is embarrassing. it seems like there is a bunch of children saying, we are just not going to do anything because we don't feel like we were asked to. host: congressman cole? guest: first of all, i am going to disagree with your basic assertion because we did cooperate last year and five covid relief bills of over $4 trillion done on a bipartisan basis with overwhelming majorities on both sides moving forward. that did not mean there were not differences, there were, but we came together and responded rather well to a national crisis. and every single appropriations bill last year was passed with bipartisan majorities. that is working together. democrats made the decision this

year not to do that. that is their right. if you got the votes, you can decide. but you do not have much margin when you are down to three or four vote differences in the house and when it is a 50-50 senate. you really empower the fringes of your own party or you empower eccentric individuals, and i mean that with no disrespect, but any person can derail the whole thing. whereas if you have agreement with the other side that is not likely to happen. democrats have that right. they won there elections and got the vote but don't do that and then say, we have got something difficult and we what republican cooperation, when you have not done that for years. that is a choice the administration and democratic majorities made. they have the votes. i do agree, it is silly we worry about the debt ceiling when they have the votes to solve the

issue. this is a case where the democrats say, i want republican fingerprints on this vote. well, you did not want republican participation on an appropriations bill. you did not one of the covid relief bill even though we worked together the previous year successfully. i do nothing you are likely to get it now. it is common sense. you can govern one way or the other but not both simultaneously. host: melvin on twitter has a similar point. he said, you point democrats working unilaterally with republicans while republicans jammed through an unnecessary tax cut that resulted in $7.8 trillion in debt under trump. guest: with all due respect to the individual, number one, the majority of that was covid relief, not from the tax cut. the tax cut is to trillion dollars over 10 years and was

repaid. i argue that bill more than any other lead to the economy which in february was the best economy in 50 years. lowest unemployment, 3.5%, fastest growing wages for americans at the bottom end of the spectrum economically. that an deregulation were very successful economic policies. again, the person on twitter and i have a different point of view. but to say that was run up under trump, remember, $4 trillion of that is covid related debt. both parties participated, it was a national emergency. it is like being critical of the united states for running up debt during the second world war. i think it did the right thing. host: harold in florida,

republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. i think we are just spending too much money. we spend money like it is free and we can just doing it -- keep doing it and nothing will happen. we are the reserve currency of the world. you have to use dollars to buy anything major in the world. you transfer your currency into dollars and then you have to transfer back. but we are in a position now where if our money becomes worthless, which will happen with the spending and inflation, for every dollar in america there is $13 overseas. if they stop using the dollar, money is going to be worthless, completely worthless and we are going to be in trouble like we have never seen. this has to stop. host: congressman cole? guest: i agree with the caller. we are spending too much money and frankly, we have to look at what the drivers of debt are.

it is less what congress appropriate on an annual basis and what is entitlement programs. they are 60% of federal spending and are on autopilot. i'm not arguing we cut them but appropriately fund those programs and reforms in as well. i have to say neither party has been interested in that. president trump would not touch medicare or medicaid or social security. i talked to him about it myself and he said, tom, i will worry about that in my second term. that's the problem. nobody has been willing to do something. the last time we dealt with social security in 1983 when reagan and howard baker cut a tremendous bipartisan deal and put us on solvency were rebuilt of the reserve that are making the difference now. that reserve is being drawn down.

we no longer generate enough revenue to cover the expenses. sooner or later you're going to hit the wall, probably in the early 2030s. give me one year to study the commission and give congress 60 days to vote yes or no on that. that worked last time and i think it would work again. there are ways to get at this but right now people would rather point fingers van deal with the problem. the bill i proposed used to be bipartisan when my friend john delaney from maryland cared. it was something we did together to try and get the vote on both sides. entitlement spending will take a bipartisan compromise to reign in. host:host: you did an interview with her home state of which says, cole pushes for native american voting rights against infrastructure package. would you vote for it when it comes on thursday and what is this effort on native american

voting rights? guest: i am going to vote against it if it comes up on thursday. one, we said it was fully paid for, it is not. second, the house had nothing to do with writing this. it did not even go through the appropriate committee in the senate where oklahoma has representation. i think we would've had a chance to have our concerns taking care of. that did not happen. third, it has been linked to the reconciliation bill. democrats presented both or neither and that is not going to encourage republican support. the terms of native american voting right act, it is something that is very bipartisan. therese davids and i cochair the native american caucus. she is from kansas, very proud indian and good friend. senator lujan from mexico used to be in the house and we worked on native american issues. we sat down collectively, look at the issues we think get into

the way of native american participation, particularly on reservations -- lots of native americans do not live on reservations and during the same situation as those living in the city -- but there are barriers to reservation voting. we came up with what we thought were common sense solutions. it was a discussion. each side arrived at some different things and i think it is unlike the other voting rights legislation we have seen. it started as a bipartisan discussion were each side put its concerns on the table and we found solutions. we are hopeful this can move and we are hopeful it will enhance data participation at the polls, particularly on reservations. host: margaret in new york city, democrat line. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i have a concern for myself and other millions of unemployed people. i am a middle-aged white female,

no kids so i do not get any tax credits, none of that extra money. i am by myself. . i have been looking for a job, looking for a job. i lost my job due to covid which is disheartening. i had just gotten a raise. i was devastated. it took me a year to find that better job. i do not know what i am going to do. no income the last few weeks and i don't want to go on welfare. i have never been on welfare, that's not my thing. i have worked hard all my life and i don't know if mr. cole, there has been stuff about not helping extend unemployment, but can you do something temporary for the single, white middle-aged people? guest: unemployment is still

there and i don't know whose district you live in but i am quite sure they have capable caseworkers. i would call my local congressman or congresswoman. we help people in the situations all the time. there are forms of assistance available and i would do that immediately. don't be afraid about accepting what is legitimate. you have been employed, pay taxes, unemployment insurance exists for a reason and there is nothing wrong with you using it. the enhanced benefits, that has been phased out. that was phased out by bipartisan agreement. i don't know of a proposal to extend it. i think it actually ended in new york at the end of september. something like that. but some states, in new york tends to be more generous, but if you are in oklahoma, the

unemployment rate is low. right around 3% and jobs are very plentiful. again, i am concerned for your situation. i would invite you to call your member of congress and go and apply foryou are eligible, justr the enhanced benefit. host: our guest has been serving oklahoma for 10 terms, tom cole, republican representative, great to have you with us. up ahead, what the future of the federal government -- what is the future for federal workers if the federal government shuts down. we are joined by max stier with the partnership for public service to talk about the implications of a possible government shutdown. later, judy chu will be with us to talk about the shutdown and possible action this week on the

infrastructure plan and the budget reconciliation measure. ♪ >> "washington post" reporter craig whitlock begins chapter 15 in his book -- in his new book " the afghanistan papers" this way. "the fraudulent reelection worsened a deluge of corruption that engulfed afghanistan in 2009 and 2010. dark money cascaded over the country. money launderers had suitcases loaded with $1 million or more on flights in kabul so crooked businessmen and politicians could stash their ill-gotten fortunes offshore." we asked him to expand on this and other stories from his book, "the afghanistan papers." >> craig whitlock on this

episode of book news -- book notes+ and you can listen to this on our new c-span now app. ♪ >> "washington journal" continues. host: the current fiscal year ends tomorrow at midnight and in last -- and unless congress acts

, the government will shut down friday morning. here to talk about the potential effect on federal workers is max stier, president and ceo of the partnership for public service, good morning. guest: good morning. host: tell us about your organization, your mission, and how you are funded. guest: i run the partnership for public service, a nonpartisan, nonprofit organization celebrating its 20th anniversary, that is dedicated to helping the aderholt government work better -- the federal government work better. fundamentally, everyone, all the nonprofits, and businesses, philanthropy engage and whatever policy you pursue does not make a lot of difference if the government is not able to get that policy done effectively.

we hope to persuade other organizations how to keep people not just on what they want to see happen by helping the government have the capability to get it done well, and we do that primarily by helping leaders with the skills and capabilities to succeed. that is us, our funding comes from individuals, from foundations, and companies, essentially, we to -- we try to stitched together support wherever we can find it. we believe that the government is the biggest tool for dealing with the problems and the only one with the public and taxpayer resources behind it. most people think it should be able to take care to just take care of itself. you look at the workforce and under this -- under 7% is under the age of 30 which drops down to 3% when you look at the i.t. force. there are a lot of issues at the government faces and it needs our help in order to help us in

the ways that we want it to with all of the challenges we face. undoubtedly there is more conversations and i am happy to go into details. host: what are the numbers affected in terms of federal workers, not only in the nation's capital but also across the country. guest: many people associate the federal government with washington, d.c., and in fact the federal government is everywhere supporting people everywhere in our country and across the world, so there are 2 million civilian federal employees, and 85% of them are out of the d.c. metro area. one third are veterans, a lot of people who are service oriented in the military realize that the next great occupation is to help people in the civil service. worth noting in a shutdown context you not only have civilian workers impacted, but

frankly in a full shutdown, which is what we face this cycle you would also see the military having challenges as well. 2 million civilian workers, 1.4 million people in uniform and active-duty service another 600 to 700,000 reservists. and the postal service. on the civilian side, the 2 million number is about the same size as it was in the late 1960's. the federal workforce really has not grown and in relative terms, due to the growth in the country, it has shrunk right -- quite a bit. if you look at the proportion of federal workers against the population, that has been going down. the last stat i will give you, 70% of that civilian workforce is focused on national security. again, the core function of our government, but most of the investment going in on the people side are about keeping us

physically safe. host: that 2.1 million figure does not include government contractors, correct? who would likely also be affected by a shutdown. guest: very important point, you are 100% correct. contractors would be impacted, everyone would be affected by a shutdown just in different ways that obviously the direct federal workforce would be immediately impacted. contractors similarly, most of the contracting work would otherwise going on would be shut down. contractors could be in a worse position. several employee -- federal employees are in a bad position, but at least in the/shutdown legislation was passed to ensure that after the shutdown they would eventually get paid. that is not true for contractors. the implications are large in terms of numbers of contractors, nobody knows how many.

weakens be safe in saying there are many multiples of the federal direct workforce so multiples of 2 billion workers. but it is really unfortunate that we do not have much more transparency around that. host: "the new york times" has tracked government shutdowns over the years. the most recent one was a 2018 2:2 -- 2019 shutdown which lasted a total of 34 days and before that it was the shutdown during the clinton administration for three weeks. this seems like a recent phenomenon. how far back in our history did these rings minute ship moments come before congress? guest: it is certainly true that we have seen an acceleration of these events, you go back to the carter administration, which had

21 shutdowns. that last one was the longest that we's had seen. the last one in 2018 and 2019 was a partial shutdown. it means that there were many functions of government that were actually funded. congress has a responsibility of passing a budget -- appropriation bills, typically 12 appropriation bills that they need to pass, and they past some of them in the 2018 to 2019, but not all of them. when they passed the appropriation bills, those agencies are able to continue with their functions. it is important to understand that it does not have to be this way. there has been legislation introduced by senator langford and senator hassan that would make it so you do not shut down if congress does not do its job rather a continuing legislation and they would continue a

requirement that the members of congress stay around to do their job and pass the appropriations. this would be a much more significance. does shutdown because none of of the appropriation bills have been passed and it would affect the entire government not half of it which was true in 2018 and 2019. the thing -- host: the thing with the resolutions they would continue at current levels. guest: clearly better than a shutdown. a continuing revolution -- resolution is not the way they do the job either. for some shorter. of time -- for some shorter period of time, the government is funded it is not a good way to run an organization and the metaphor for me is that if you know that you will be buying a loaf of bread and someone gives you piecemeal money to buy single slices of bread you will pay a lot more money and not be able to plan on when you eat and

it is not a smart planning mechanism. that is also true under continuing resolutions that there are limits to what you can do with respect to stopping programs or starting new things. so, it is way better than a shutdown but not ideal. the ideal that congress -- the ideal is that congress passes appropriations on time, but that has not happened for all 12 bills since 1997, so the system is not working but we can make it better by changing the default to a continuing resolution as opposed to a shutdown if they do not do their work. host: we are talking about a potential government shutdown and the effect it could have on federal employees. our lines, 202-748-8000 for democrats. 202-748-8001 for republicans. independents and others, 202-748-8002. our line for federal employees is 202-748-8003.

we would love to hear how you are preparing or how your agency and organization is preparing for that. while we wait for callers i thought i would play the comments of speaker nancy pelosi on the debt ceiling and raising the debt ceiling which has been tied into the continuing resolution which passed in the house last week installed in the senate. here's the speaker from yesterday on the debt ceiling. [video clip] >> there are discussions of our future, in other words how do we deal with this in the future. brendan boyle has an excellent idea. he said that his legislation was china rms and would say -- was ginormous, and said the lifting of the debt season -- deaf -- debt ceiling would be with the treasury and she would have the authority to lift the debt ceiling. congress would have the authority to reject that, but that would require an act of

congress and a signature from the president of the united states. there are others, jared nadler wants to have a coin that does not even require congressional activity. we talked about an array of things. [end video clip] host: the speaker talking about other ways in the future to resolve the issue. what are your thoughts? guest: the most fundamental issue whether it is either the question of a shutdown or the debt ceiling, or many other things, one of the places we are focused on is to ensure that we have leadership in addressing changes to the senate confirmation process. there are a bunch of that i would describe as system issues that are breaking down in our government that have enormous consequences for the ability of our country to succeed in dealing with an array of problems, and they are issues that do not generally get a lot of attention until there is a

crisis in the system and when we get past the crisis people forget about it and the shutdown is a great example of it. gao has been recommending dealing with this for decades. so, what i would say is that we need to describe it as a geneva convention around certain areas that are really off limits for partisan fighting. certain issues that fundamentally mean that we all lose if we do not deal with them in a government shutdown is one of them, a default on the debt is one of them. not having our leaders in place because the confirmation process is not working. we need to see leadership across the political spectrum coming together and saying we can disagree around policies and we should have that argument but we need to agree that the health of our government is fundamental to our democracy and we need to be on board to make sure that we have a system that will work in

the very challenging world that we exist in, and have them put all of these issues in the same bucket. we need long-term solutions just not another band-aid. host: you have worked in his field for many years. how do moments like these affect a newly hired federal worker, someone just entering public service for the first time or considering that? is there a morale impact? guest: the answer is that it has a profound impact. the people serving in government are serving because they care about the mission, the unique opportunity that they have to make a difference for the american people. if you make it hard for those people to do their job, to serve the public and the ways that they want to, they are not going to stick around. i started off by telling you that there are a number of concerns that the workforce is basically in the federal government is missing young people. you have under 7% under the age

of 30 is craziness and not healthy. you look at the morale numbers and they are 12 point loss below -- plus below what you would see in the private sector despite the fact that you have such a mission committed workforce. that is bad. it is not just bad for them. the american people need to understand that it is bad for all of us. if we do not have the right talent serving us we will not get the right service. when we face the challenges that we do with the pandemic and environmental issues and on and on, we need the best out of our government. there is a lot at stake. host: we will go first two are independent line. chris and new jersey. -- in new jersey. caller: how are you? guest: excellent. caller: the reason i called is what your annual salary is and i would want to know why you were a witness against mr. kavanaugh

when he was in his hearings for the supreme court. thank you. guest: sure. you can go to our 990, we have all of our financial information publicly available, all yours, 048. with respect to the second part, that is part of my private life and up the conversation here today. host: oklahoma city on the federal employees line. good morning. caller: i would like to know if the federal and tight -- retired employees will get their check on october 1. guest: great question. there are exceptions in a shutdown to who is actually funded. there are three types of federal employees, those who are furloughed, meaning that the government said you have to stay home and you cannot do your work, those that are accepted,

those performing emergency services and getting to your question that involves the preservation of property, and the third is those that are exempt. there are a lot of functions of government not subject to annual appropriation and those functions can continue forward so long as there is dollars for them to pursue or for them to do the work. there are some interesting examples where what is traditionally exempt is not exempt. the highway transportation fund is going to lose its authorization at the same time as the appropriations will at midnight tomorrow. in terms, -- in terms of the check, the likelihood is that you will get the check. the workers required to actually send those out will be viewed as accepted and continue their work. but, there is a lot of wiggle room and discretion in terms of what services are viewed as

falling within each of those categories. my best guess would be that you continue to receive that money, but i would tell you that over the longer term, certainly, there are aspects of government activity that degrade over time if you do not have the full federal workforce doing the job. host: a comment from deborah on twitter who says "most federal employees live check to check getting paid every two weeks. the last shutdown was 35 days and a lot of workers are forced to show up without being paid. shutdowns are needlessly hurtful and a complete failure of congress. how can a government employee be forced to show up without being paid, how is that possible? guest: that is a great question and i do not know of any other example where that occurs. no other organization can force its employees to show up for work and actually not pay them.

to be clear about this federal employees who are showing up for work will eventually be paid but they do not know when, it will have to be after the shutdown and all of the processes restart to get them the money. and, this is a big problem and why we should not have shutdowns. we really ought to have the default being continuing resolutions and i would come back to the point of why federal workers are in their jobs. they are there because they care about the mission, they are serving the public. they are the prototypical public -- public servents, this is an unnecessary cost of service, there are a lot of things that they give up, and they should not be one of them. i think that this is a key point about why we need to change the system. we are being unfair to people who are sacrificing a lot to take care of us. caller: carly -- host: carly in georgia,

republican line. caller: my first comment is that federal workers are well paid and have a phenomenal retirement and are able to outpace the salaries and the private sector. i am a businesswoman. my question is why are we punishing everybody except those failing to do their duties? is congress unpaid during this time? members of congress, their salaries and benefits continue. has there ever been a move towards if you are not doing your job we are going to enact something with congress rather than the employees? guest: so, i think yours is the right point. we ought to hold accountable the people not doing their jobs and it is a fundamental aspect of the job of congress to actually appropriate the money for the work that they need to actually happen. in terms of the consequence that you described of withholding

their pay there has been suggestions of do -- to do that, i mentioned earlier the senators that -- the legislation that senators langford and hassan has introduced, in terms of withholding salaries, i do not believe. what it does require is that there be quorum that they actually have to stick around. there are limitations on money spent on travel, so the real effort is to get at just what you are describing. senator langford said something that was tremendous, something on the order that i will not be able to say as well as he did. he described how and his family if he and his brother were not doing what they needed to do and how to resolve something his parents would put them in the room and say stay there and figure it out. that is what the legislation is attempting to do. it is to put congress in the room and say you have a job to do, figure it out.

i think that is the right sensible approach, there are issues on how punitive that you make it. but, that is the core idea. the most important thing is that just as the people who are going to suffer should not be the american people nor the federal workforce. host: are line for federal employees, 202-748-8003. on that line, beth, in maryland. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. i am a federal employee and have been one for approximately 20 years and this happens every time they argue over the budget, so we always get federal workers sitting on the edge and saying if they are going to have continuing resolutions and it always comes down to the last moment. but, i work for an agency prior,

homeland, immigration. and, they are fee based so we are not affected by the shutdown at all. recently they were affected by the covid and that decreased the in person visits. but, i believe it will come through, but at the very last minute like usual. thank you, and for this very interesting topic. thank you for sharing. guest: i want to point out a couple of things. yes, there have been shutdowns previously, honestly not that many, they are all bad, but some of them have been short since the carter administration. there has never been a shutdown in the world we live in today with a pandemic and the workforce largely operating remotely. it makes it a lot more complicated and difficult to

deal with, and to the point which was super important. this is something that people are worrying about almost every year, and sometimes multiple to -- multiple times. if you have a continuing resolution you might have to go through this more than once and that is a huge waste in and of itself. we have phenomenal demands that we are putting on the federal workforce to deal with the challenges that exist, and now have to -- and now you have to worry about not only those challenges but to work through the possibility of a shutdown, meaning they have to be distracted from some of the important work to prepare for something that may or may not happen. that is an immense waste. shutting down the united states government is not a matter of turning on and off a light switch, it requires a lot of preparation and work that may or may not actually be necessary. but must be dunning -- because

the risk exists. sometimes people say it did not happen, no big deal, it still is a big deal because federal employees are doing a lot of things to prepare for a shutdown that is a waste of time and a waste of time that costs the american public, focus on things that are directly relevant to their concerns. host: are caller -- our caller pointed out that a large part of homeland security is fee based. a headline for "the washington post" says that the transportation department could face furloughs and they write that they do not rely on annual appropriations, instead it is paid for by a highway trust fund which congress authorizes for several years at a time. it is filled with gas receipts and a top of from the government, but it is set to expire thursday as the deadline looms. factions of the democratic party

deficit rushed disagree over the infrastructure bill. not only the funding deadline but the transportation authorization expiring thursday, at midnight. guest: corrects. and there are large swaths of government that are fee based or may have multiyear appropriations, and some of them could still be affected and in this instance, the authorization is expiring at the same time, some will not, that there are interdependencies across the government. even for those fee-based entities that might be able to continue their work there is still the case that they will have to operate in a world that many of their partners are having to deal with shutdowns and this is true not just at the federal level but state and local level. these are interrelated entities serving the public, and they are contractors, public and private, nonprofit, everybody will be impacted. it would be really ugly.

they already are because everyone is having to think through what happens if there is a shutdown and what we need to do to address that, and it is a distraction we do not need. host: let us hear from rudolph, columbus, ohio. democrat line. caller: thank you. this -- will this shutdown affect social security? guest: social security is an agency that will be able to run. so it should not. they should still be going out. i mentioned that there are interdependencies, that is one where that service should be continued. host: greg on the republican line. yuri, pennsylvania. you are on -- erie, pennsylvania. you are on. caller: my question is why during covid where the federal employee is protected and they were the only organization that did not have to lose their jobs

or i guess i am saying if there was not a cut of the federal employees during covid, when will we ever see a reduction in the workforce, and my question to you, as we have more and more folks becoming retired and it is going to put more and more onus on the federal workforce. thank you. host: any thoughts. guest: i am hoping that i understood your question correctly. i mentioned earlier that when you look at the size of the federal workforce, direct employees and not the overall budget and contractors, that number actually has not grown and has seen some ups and downs over the last 40 plus, 50, 60 years. we are pretty much at the same size of direct headcount as it

was in the 1960's. that is despite the fact that the federal government is doing additional duties. a great example is the tsa, transportation security administration which is a new federal function. the headcount actually has not gone up. in absolute terms. the larger united states has grown 100 million plus in population. so, i think it is not well understood that when people talk about the growth of the government they also conflate that with the growth of the workforce when in fact that they are different things. the workforce has seen basic stability if not declines, and certainly declines most of the civilian agencies. on covid, interesting dynamic is the more challenges that we face as a country and covid is a profound one, the more demand is there on the federal workforce,

the more work that we are expecting from federal workers. a great example is the irs, which has seen substantial reduction in their headcount. they are down below 80,000 people right now, and their workload has mushroomed, because in addition to the normal tax work there were new mandates put on them with respect to the obamacare requirements and then getting money out to people through pandemic response and etc.. so, in times of crisis we actually see increasing demand on the federal workforce, if anything my hope would be that the american people see how fundamental to their welfare a healthy government is and a robust high morale workforce and invest in that. so, the federal workforce has taking it on the chin, and they

faced enormous challenges, and for many, it has been an extra duty. in serving the public they have had to put themselves in additional harm's way if they are a tsa agent, you are -- your job is interfacing with the public. even though that puts you at an additional health risk. if anything my view on this is that covid has demonstrated how much we should appreciate the workforce that we have, and, frankly, we need to be very thoughtful about sustaining that workforce through this period, because the demands are so heavy. host: our guest heads the partnership for public service. a pleasure to have you on this morning. up ahead, the open forum on washington journal. we will open up the phone lines for your thoughts and the topics including the potential government shutdown, what is ahead for the continued

resolution and government funding, the debate on the house -- in the house for infrastructure in the budget reconciliation measure and the congressional hearings yesterday and today on the afghan bert -- afghan withdrawal. democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents and others, 202-748-8002. ♪ >> you can be a part of the national conversation by participating in the studentcam video competition. if you are a middle or high school student create a five or six minute documentary that illustrates the question how does the federal government impact your life. it must show for and opposing points of view with c-span video clips.

the student competition awards $100,000 in total cash prizes and you have a shot of winning the grand prize of $5,000. entries must be received before january 20, 2022. for rules or how to get started visit studentcam.org. ♪ weekends on c-span2 are an intellectual feast. you will find events and people that explore our nation's past. sundays, book tv brings you the latest in nonfiction books and authors. it is television for serious readers. learn, discover, and explore weekends on c-span2. >> "washington journal" continues. host: it is our open forum on washington journal, your

thoughts on public policy and political issues that we have been talking about this morning or others that you have been reading about. democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents and all others, 202-748-8002. a couple of tweets from democratic leaders from the majority leader saying "the democrats are committed to keeping the government open and ensuring that we pay our bills on time. it is time for the senate republicans to do the right thing and join democrats in preventing a catastrophic default." the rules committee will meet on a debt limit extension tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern, and that is this morning, i should say at 10:00 a.m. eastern and that is from jim mcgovern. the house is coming in at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span for their morning hour of legislative work. at noon eastern, i want to point

out too on c-span3, the second day of hearings for military leaders. yesterday before the senate armed services committee, this is the headline in "the new york times." "military officials say they urged biden against afghanistan withdrawal during a heated sending hearing, general mark milley defended his actions in the final months of the trump administration." here's part of that. [video clip] >> mr. chairman i have served this nation for 42 years, i have spent years in combat and i have buried a lot of my troops who died defending this country. my loyalty to this nation, its people, and the constitution has not changed and will never change as long as i have a breaths to give. my loyalty is absolute, and i will not turn my back on the fallen.

with respect to the chinese calls, i routinely communicated with my counterpart with the knowledge and coordination of civilian oversight. i have specifically erected -- i am specifically directed by department of defense guidance, and the policy dialogue system. these communications at the highest level are critical to the security of the united states to de-conflict military actions, manage crisis and prevent war between great powers that are armed with the world's most deadliest weapons. the calls on the 30th of october and the eighth of january were coordinated before and after with secretary esper and asked -- and the acting secretary and the interagency. the specific purpose of the calls were to -- were generated by concerning intelligence which caused us to believe that the chinese were worried about an attack on them by the united states.

i know, i am certain, that president trump did not intend to attack the chinese, and it is my directed responsibility and it was my directed responsibility by the secretary to convey that intent to the chinese. my task at that time was to de-escalate. [end video clip] host: that is general mark milley. the chairman of the joint sheets of -- chiefs of staff part of his testimony within hours long hearing, the house armed services committee will hear from those military leaders this morning. that is coming up at 9:30. it could last several hours. it is scheduled to last four hours and it may go longer. live coverage on c-span3. one more military story from reuters. the taliban says u.s. drones must stop entering afghanistan. "the taliban warned of

consequences if the united states did not stop flying drones over afghan airspace. the u.s. has violated all international rights and laws as well of its commitments made. to your calls, the independent line first, john in suffolk, genia. caller: good morning, i was calling to see if there is no budget agreement where do you think they would plan on laying off federal employees? host: that is a question for a previous guest he is not here to answer that maybe we'll call in with an answer for you. thank you for your call. kirk in california. caller: hello. i was listening to the senate hearings and it was clearly said that the general did not recommend staying after the 31st

because the taliban would take military action, so i am wondering why the soundbites are going the other way. host: lester in new brunswick, new jersey. republican line. good morning. caller: i am calling to find out if pensions and social security recipients will receive a check. host: we kind of covered it with max stier. open forum here on washington journal. richard up next from ohio. how do you pronounce the name of your town? go ahead with your comment. caller: my comment is more based on jobs. i know in our community there are a lot of help wanted signs everywhere you work. -- you look. and as i travel i see the same things elsewhere. one of kamala harris' promises was all of the thousands of

people who were locked up on minor marijuana charges and i have no charges against me, i am trying to put two and two together. but, i am thinking if we have all of these job openings that are construction and restaurants just the type of jobs that people who would be incarcerated for marijuana charges would be able to fill without having to go through crazy background checks but, it seems like that would create a lot of tax money. and, nothing has been talked about it. so why not get these people out of jail, let us quit paying for them to sit in jail and let them go and work and make something for their living. make their job part of their release? you know? i think that would change a lot as far as the senate last week,

they legalized the banking portion for all of these facilities and distribution points. it just seems a little strange. it is like why don't they open it up to everyone and less summary has their hand in the pot. i know at one point in time senator boehner was anti-marijuana and then he leaves congress and he is placed on the board. and, it is like, how is that legal? that is a big mind blowing. you have doctors charging to be able to give up prescriptions for medical marijuana cards. they are charging for that. and then -- it seems like you are just a drug dealer. and, it blows my mind. why cant they get on the same page and pass this through.

look at colorado and the tax money coming out of there. host: baltimore, roland on the democrats line. caller: i want to first complement the host for having just democrats for the first have an hour, that was such a pleasure. maybe one day they can have democrats for just for an hour so we do not have to listen to republican nonsense. i do not understand why republicans hate nancy pelosi, she is fighting for the middle class and the poor, and the republicans just hate her. thank you. host: president biden had scheduled a trip to chicago today to tout the vaccine. he is staying in washington as negotiations continue over the $3.5 trillion budget reconciliation measure. "biden bets it all on unlocking

the mansinema puzzle. he is still trying to figure out what makes joe manchin and kyrsten sinema take. the white house is devoting all of its energy to sketching out a framework for a social spending and climate package on which the democratic party can agree. inside the west wing the belief is that it all begins with nailing down the two centrist senate democrats on what they can live with in the $3.5 trillion plan in the hopes that their support will clear a path to pass both that bill and the infrastructure proposal waiting for a vote in the house." from virginia -- linda, in virginia on the independent line. good morning. caller: i am going to make some comments quickly so that other people can call in. number one, i watched the

defense department yesterday. totally lied about everything. they did not want to take about any responsibility -- they did not want to take any responsibility and they covered up most of the time for biden, although they did say that they put everything in front of biden. and, biden did not listen to them. second, the man in jail for voicing his opinion, i think that sends a very chilling message to what free speech is all about. i am shocked, and horrified that because of a random lieutenant cornel -- lt. col. voiced his opinion about afghanistan, he is sitting in jail. so many people say i have no power, i cannot do anything, you can.

pick up the phone, call your representative, i called the republicans and democrats. i am a republican, and i am very disappointed in the republican party. and, there is this business of black lives matter and antifa, they are killing their own people. children, in drive-by shootings. so, let us look at the truth, and not look at fantasy island, which is what our country is becoming. we must make good decisions now. biden is a disgrace, and i am just shocked at his behavior. thank you very much. host: it is open forum on " washington journal." some comments from julie in georgia, "i would like us to know if there is a path for we the people to force congress to

lose their wages." the answer to the question from a few minutes ago, social security and pensions will be paid during a shutdown but not if the debt ceiling is not raised. "increase and expand social security and medicare." columbia, mississippi. good morning. caller: i want to make a comment that i made on the radio locally last week. in the old days the outlaws rode horses and carried guns and were arrested by sheriff's and marshall's. now, they ride in mercedes, bmw's they carry laptops and cell phones and nothing is done to them. i suggest that everybody who works for the government have their salary suspended for a month and put it into people in the social security and pensions for those who need it. they do not need it, they have enough money because this government is like a bunch of

kindergartners trying to put on a broadway production. if you took biden out you would have to go down the line of succession to get to the janitor at the white house to know what they are actually doing in washington. the west of them do not know where they are at and they do not care. they really do not care for the american people, the only thing they care about is when they want their vote in the man that said republicans hated nancy pelosi. i do not hate nancy pelosi, i hate her accent. host: the front page of "the wall street journal" "fed powell opposes second term. the democratic senator and jerome powell yesterday at his hearing in -- on the senate side of the capital. this is senator warren from that hearing. [video clip] >> the elephant in the room is whether you will be renominated for a second term as fed chair.

re-nominating you means gambling that the next five years a republican majority at the federal reserve with a republican share who has regularly voted to deregulate wall street will not drive this economy over a financial cliff again. and with so many qualified candidates i do not think that is a risk worth taking. i know that some argue that you are -- that your deregulatory actions are mostly harmless, i disagree. i think it puts taxpayers at risk for hundreds of billions of dollars, but even at that so far you have been lucky, but the 2008 crash shows what happens when the luck runs out. the seeds of the 2008 crash replanted years in advance by major regulators like the federal reserve that refused to rein in big banks. i came to washington after the

crash to make sure that nothing like that whatever happen again. your record gives me grave concern. over and over you have acted to make our banking system less safe and that makes you a dangerous man to head up the fed and it is why i will oppose your renomination. [end video clip] host: that is senator warren and the testimony of federal fed chair jay powell. your hearing about our new c-span now app, and on that app, you will find live, unfiltered coverage of government proceedings, house, senate, congressional hearings, white house events and more. once a program ends videos will stay on there for 24 hours. c-span now also has a featured clip section showing political highlights driving the news, and the most recent "washington

journal" segments right at your fingertips. to get c-span now for yourself visit the app store or google play and search for c-span now. you can visit c-span.org/c-span now for more information and links to a download. open forum on "washington journal." let us go to lewis in salsberry, north carolina. caller: i just have a few things. it is something how the republicans really ran up the debt for almost $8 trillion during trump. and now it is time to pay, they want to throw a monkeywrench in it, they do not want to pay it and they want to stop the people from receiving something out of their reconsideration. they don't want that deal with that. this is all to say that the trump party, or the republican

party, i will not say all, but the gop i called them the pink ok. when they were in the tundra on january 6 they kept shouting usa. do you know what usa stands for them, understating authority. the oath -- the republicans do not want to do nothing for the people they want to keep putting money in their pockets for the rich. it is sad that the republicans have turned this and all they cried out was we must not shut the government down, we have to keep it open because covid. and now they are in the process of shutting it down. it is so sad what republicans are doing. host: robert, independent line. frostburg, maryland. caller: good morning. yes, sir. i am a vietnam veteran.

i joined the military during the cuban missile crisis when kennedy was president. from 1860 to 1960 our country, as lincoln said once "a nation divided against itself cannot stand." from 1860 to 1960 all of these crazy people were in the democratic party and then a candidate come along like lincoln and tried to make things equal for everybody and both presidents fascinate me for it. during when johnson came into office he says i will continue kennedy's policies and johnson called it exactly like he said. that when they passed the civil rights and human rights and voting rights acts, johnson said these people would go over to the republican party and join that party, just like he called it, it happened.

what i am seeing, the country that i was willing to die for, these people are tearing this country apart. the thing is, our enemies like that division. when we follow the principles that this country was built on, we are unbeatable. but when we fail, or we allow these crazy people now in the republican party just like johnson said, they will go over there and ruin it, and i am seeing my country fall apart. host: a story from "the washington times" on the governors race in virginia. "trump looms large in gubernatorial debate. republican gubernatorial candidate glenn juncker in hit back at terry mcauliffe over painting that -- painting him as a loyalist. mr. youngkin address the

attacks, which was held at northern virginia community college. there is an over under about how may times he would say donald trump and it was just busted through. you are running against glenn younkin. mr. mcauliffe attacked his opponent on plans of election integrity saying that he was pandering to the former president's claims of voter fraud. the democrat reiterated that mr. youngkin has been endorsed several times. he has bought and paid for by donald trump, mr. mcauliffe said. it indicated the shadow that mr. trump cast over the race which has been largely nationalized." louise on the republican line. good morning. you are breaking up on us a little bit. i am not sure if he is -- if it is your cell phone. you might have to call us back. try as -- please try again.

i am so sorry. we are having trouble hearing you. we will hear from dan in woodbridge, virginia, on our next call. democrat line. go ahead. caller: good morning. i just have a couple of things. first, i am just so curious to know how the republicans are always complaining about the democrats and everything. where is their plan that they offer to do anything? i have yet to ever hear of them giving a plan to do anything, but they are always complaining about the democrats, for one. secondly, what happened to the talk about term limits for these governors, senators, and all of that, and supreme court judges that they were going to do. it is to the point now that our

government can really actually do nothing and it is time to start getting these people out of their and stop letting them have long terms. host: rob on the independent line in tampa, florida. caller: good morning. the first thing i wanted to do was to answer the caller that said when did the federal employees get sent home? this goes back to the 2013 shut down, i was an employee in the tampa area. when the shutdown hit we had four hours to do what was called an orderly, short shutdown of the systems and submit our timesheets and then go home until we were recalled. i presume that that is pretty much the same way now. in 2018, i was emergency essential so when i -- when they had the shutdown i was still working we were just told we were not be paid right away. the thing from yesterday's hearing with the secretary of

defense and the chairman is that no one asked about the reported, i think it was in the what word book -- woodward book about the speaker asking to take away the nuclear football from the president. i would like to hear the house address that. i view that as an attempted taking away a constitutional power, article two says the president is the commander-in-chief of the army and navy. i would like to know who else was in on that discussion, and they attempted subordination or mutiny. so, thank you very much. host: we will hear more from that -- we will hear that, those military leaders beginning in about half an hour. 9:30 eastern on c-span3 and we will carry that live on c-span.org. you can stream it live, general

milley is coming in right now to the house hearing room. that gets underway in 30 minutes and we will have live coverage streaming live at our new c-span now app. it is open forum here on washington journal up until about 9:30 eastern. any topic in terms of political topic or public policy issue including hearings on capitol hill, the debate on the infrastructure package and the looming shutdown and potential federal shutdown which could start as early as late thursday night early friday morning, the end of the fiscal year is tomorrow at midnight. for democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents and others, 202-748-8002. this is a reporting of "the hill." "democrat search for suite but -- sweet spot below 3.5 trillion dollar price tag. they are trying to find their

sweet spot at the heart of president biden's agenda. reality setting in that the long touted figure of $3.5 of $3.5 tn will not be the top line. a blow to progressives who viewed it as a compromise. democrats and the white house trying to figure out what competing factions can live with. pushing a price tag that could win 50 votes in the senate, every democrat would be a significant step forward amid a rocky period marked by high-profile infighting. as we started the program, we mentions members of the media and others get a daily update from leadership, republican and democratic. this is the guidance from steny hoyer office. first votes predicted? last votes predicted? uncertainty abounds in what is ahead.

they will take up seven suspension bills but possible consideration of a legislation related to the debt limit and additional legislative items possible. all of this getting underway at 10:00 a.m. eastern. speeches at -- and legislative work starting at noon. john is in farmington, connecticut. democrat line. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. i would like to make this comment about the number of jobs in solar, wind, and other types of fuel. they outnumber current fuel jobs 3:1. my suggesting is that president biden should mention a solar

manufacturing plant for his district. some like bill gates, or bloomberg could possibly fund that situation. so that the people in west virginia who would lose their jobs and call would have other jobs to go to. thank you very much. host: kansas city, republican line, gordon, good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. that last collar is a wacko. the guy from maryland who was praising lbj, he is the one that started stealing from social security. if they passed the $3.5 trillion, they should put $2.5 trillion back into social security. anybody that voted for joe biden is out of their mind. host: brian on the independent

line. hello. caller: good morning. listening to that last collar let's you know why this country is in the trouble they are. two points i want to bring up. first was the money sent out by biden in the first package to black farmers, it has not been given to them. it is stuck in court. what i last read was the biden justice department has declined to take that case up and fight for those farmers losing their money based on the racist practices of the agriculture department. that has not happened yet. i would like democrats to think about that. the second point, i would like to know what is america's role

in the murder of the president of haiti. and the attempted murder of his wife, and the coup that took place over there. it seems every time there is a democrat in office, a president is either removed or something happens in haiti. i have not heard about any one of those on c-span. host: is it your belief that the united states had some role in that assassination? caller: the men who were at the compound for the president stated they had identified themselves as u.s. dea agents. that is why they were allowed into the secure area. you can take that -- but that was definitely stated. the wife was severely wounded and flown to miami. i would like to know what has happened. we know the united states has a

role in what is going on down there. like maybe to see what is going on. it has just been various radio silence. host: i don't know if this answers your question on black farmers, but this usa today piece, black farmers accused the usda of racism. the agriculture department appears to agree and balance the historical discrimination. this is the opinion page of the washington post, david e nations writing, for the pentagon, accountability and ruby -- rebuilding a strategic failure when general mark milley offered that epitaph for the war in afghanistan tuesday you could see the weight of 20 years of battle on his face. the bags under his eyes, but still the commander insisted on telling the truth about america's longest and perhaps most frustrating combat experience.

tuesday's testimony to the senate armed services committee marked a point of reckoning. defense secretary lloyd austin and general kenneth mckenzie, all three led troops in this long agonizing war and none of them try to sugarcoat to sugarcoat the bitter agony of defeat. the leaders were asked i senator roger wicker on tuesday, yesterday, about the credibility of the u.s. following the withdrawal from afghanistan. >> on july 8, president biden said the likely -- the likelihood of the taliban overrunning anything -- everything is unlikely. we now know he was advised it might happen. it was completely untrue that statement in july. later, president biden says i

trust the capacity of the afghan military. better trained and more competent in terms of conducting the war. president biden was war -- wrong on that. we told our interpreters and friends who had our backs during this entire period that we would not abandon them and that is exactly what we did. in an interview that has been referred to on network news, president biden says if there's american citizens left, we are going to stay and get them all out. two days later, the president of the united states unequivocally said any american who wishes to come home, we will get you home. we are going to stay and get them out. the president did exactly the opposite. you are right emma general milley, when you advised that

our credibility would be damaged. our credibility has been gravely damaged, has it not? >> i think our credibility with allies and partners around the world, and with adversaries, is being intensely reviewed to see which way this is going to go. i think damaged is one word that can be used. >> secretary austin, no question this sends a disastrous message to china and russia. what message does it send to nato allies and other allies around the world about not only our credibility, but national resolve? >> what the world witnessed is the united states military evacuating 124,000 people out of a contested environment in 17

days. >> you testified that was a great accomplishment. what about our credibility? >> as i engage my counterparts, i think our credibility remains solid. clearly there will be people who question things going forward, but i would say the united states military -- and the united states of america, people place great trust in. relationships are things we have to work on continuously. we will continue to do that. host: and our open forums, comments on social media. lizzie on twitter, "i don't blame the generals. he lied to them." >> congress needs to live under their rules. we have a mandate for vaccines, so should they. if there is a shut down, they

don't get paid either. if they don't like it, they have the same options of the rest of us. find another job. they are not privileged members of the country." "the great american dream of something for nothing is alive and well. america is addicted to printing money and bearing their children with debt." in leesburg, virginia, we go to karen on our democrats line. caller: good morning. i have several members of my family that are federal workers. what bothers me and them is that some people in the republican party are ungrateful. it is easy to talk about a shut down when you are not going to work every day. host: hold on, we want to point out for our viewers we have a hearing coming up at 9:30, lloyd austin coming in for that hearing.

it will be over on c-span3. sorry to interrupt. go ahead. >> what i am talking about is ungrateful americans. people call into this line who live on government services and complain about socialism when they are getting a social security check. they live in a country that gives them the freedom to eat and sleep and they want to downplay the government. that is a problem that i have. when you see that debacle on january 6, a bunch of hyenas, then they want to complain and say it was blm and antifa. it is sickening how we are imploding from the inside out. republican or democrat, you don't understand the value you have. this clip you ran about america, and our standing in the world. all of those countries are

sucking the wind out of america. for them to even have an opinion about whether our credibility is diminished is weak. people need to understand it is not about you, it is about the entire country. whether it is vaccines, shutdowns, debt -- a lot of people cheat on taxes -- we all have to come together because we are going to self implode and the chinese are looking forward to that. host: on vaccines, a wall street journal story. "shots for children likely not approved before november. regulatory clearance of the vaccine for young children may not come until november, according to a person familiar with the matter. the company said tuesday they provided u.s. health regulators with a recent study of their vaccine in children five to 11 years old. they said they would file an

application asking for the fda to authorize use in coming weeks. though they had previously targeted submitting the application as early as september. in their latest announcement, pfizer said they provided the fda data from a positive late stage study for young children for initial review. the company said last week researchers found a two dose course to be safe and generate robust immune response in children five to 11 years old. antibody levels in children who received the shot were similar to those measured in younger adults." here is annie in fairfax, california. independent line. caller: good morning. i am on the independent line because i do not know which party i am most in favor of.

when i think about calling open forum, the main issue that comes to mind is abortion. i know it is a controversial issue, but i will say i am not in favor of the. on a personal note relating to the last caller, people getting social security checks, i got social security disability since i was in my late 20's. i always tried to work. this last work period, i had 20 hours a week for about $1200 a month. i was kicked off social security. i think somebody needs to look into incentives so that people who do want to go back to work instead of sitting on social security. thanks for taking my call. host: thanks. this is a headline from the hill

, "federal judge blocks part of arizona abortion man." -- abortion ban." caller: i have something to say, they are talking about this economy, arguing back and forth, one thing i have not heard, these politicians -- i have not yet heard one of them, or anybody say why don't we take a -- [indiscernible] i have not heard any one say that in the cussing. nobody has volunteered to take a pay cut. host: up next is frank in new york on the republican line. caller: how are you doing?

i've listened to a bunch of crab all day. terry mcauliffe was being investigated with hillary clinton. for him to back hillary clinton and not say nothing, the democrat party gave his wife $1 million to run for senate. on january 6, all you black people listen, there was no one killed there. white people were walking in the thing. host: our caller mentioned terry mcauliffe in the governor's race in virginia. he is the democratic candidate. this is political outlook on that from reuters. four alarm fire, tight virginia race holds warning signs for democrats almost a year after president biden trounced donald trump in virginia, the unexpectedly tight race for governor has alarmed democrats and left republicans hopeful to

win back crucial suburban voters. with early voting underway, the -- has labeled the contest between terry mcauliffe and republican greg juncker and a tossup. a poll gave juncker an advantage. to houston, texas on the independent line. this is linda. >> i have a couple of things on my mind. -- caller: through c-span, thank you, i am just so concerned. i am calling as an american. when you try to contact representatives in congress, which once they are elected are supposed to represent everybody and you try to contact input into congressional leaders, you

only have a certain number in your state. to make decisions about -- for everybody. they say, we will listen to anybody. textor email. we will respond to any of our constituents. once you are elected, isn't everybody your constituent? that gets to the issue of how we have, in many ways, destroyed congress as the representative for everybody. host: does it feel like in your case -- you feel like you should be able to contact any member of congress, feeling they represent you and that your local representative represents people in other districts as well? more broadly than just the congressional district they represent?

caller: we want universal voting. they are all for that. but, they come from different areas of the united states. this morning you were talking about farmers. they are restricted access to money they deeply need. we have tankers filled with products and cargo off the coast of california that have been refused entry. so, i understand they put out it is all about inability to transport or unload. however, i think we send our national guard in for many purposes. to try to create a situation where we have reduced the ability to get things -- stores in many areas have very few choices already.

>> -- host: we will hear from jerry in minnesota. caller: good morning. i am saying this to my democratic friends that are always talking about the rich will pay the tax. once again, 5% to 10% of the top earners pay 90% of the taxes. 50%, mainly the people that call in on this channel, don't pay any taxes through earned into him -- earned income tax credits. understand this, when it goes up, inflation goes up. here is the problem. now, the people with less income have to pay more for everything which means the whole cycle that goes on forever will never end. you will sink deeper into debt because of this extra spending. you will sink deeper because you are not paying taxes already.

you already are receiving more money. inflation will go up, gas will go up, food will go up even further. how long are you going to get played by the democratic party? march around thinking oh, if i just take from those that earned it, i will get it for free. it has been 50 years of this stuff. now they are allowing people to pour in because that will be a new whole group of pre-purchased voters. you think nancy pelosi or bernie sanders are having it rough? wake up my friends. wake up. host: all republicans in the senate are opposing the three point $5 trillion budget reconciliation bill. john of wyoming talked about that. [video clip] >> you talk about $3.5 trillion, and their estimates are above

that, you do the math, that is over $10,000 for every man, woman and child in america. that is a really heavy lift. let's see how heavy of a lift it is. $3.5 trillion. this is their bill. 2500 pages. if you take a look at $3.5 trillion price tag and you do the math, that is $1 billion for every page of this bill. and they want to pass it this week. how many democrats do you think have read this? do you think nancy pelosi has read it? do you think joe biden, who is desperately begging democrats to

pass it, do you think he knows what's in it? now, president biden has stooped so low in his desperation that he said the cost of this bill would be nothing. he tweeted it would be zero. mr. president, the american people are smarter than you may believe because the american people are smart enough to not believe you when you say the cost of this bill will be zero. the american people clearly understand that they will be the ones left holding the bill. to pay for this reckless tax and spending spree. host: in any of our segments, you can send a text to (202) 748-8003.

republicans blame democrats, democrats blame republicans. they both have corrupt people and their parties. nothing will get better until corruption is dealt with and people in government are held accountable. we cannot have a two tier justice system, says karen in delaware. grassroots of both parties should consider political finance reform. corporate special interests own politicians. how about just a vote.com page? they advertise for free and contributions made illegal. mike is next in rockford, illinois. caller: lloyd austin's confirmation hearing, he mentioned deeper that she would promise to work with china in all error, land and sea operations and information. that is a runaway train. what is happening with

afghanistan, blinken testified last week that 75% do not have any papers. they do not know who they are. 80,000 possible afghani military fighters in our country, at our military bases. we've heard about sexual assaults already and we are about to shut our government down after we formed space corps and sucked in all of the brainpower from the other forces of the brain drain. i think space force brain drain spaces are empty. what we have to do to fix it in our declaration of independence it states we can reform the government if they have failed us. the failure of this government is out of bounds. c-span and the viewers should be at the front of reforming this

government with the clause in the declaration of independence. if you watch c-span, you are a patriot. you care about your country. i am asking all the viewers out there if this is a runaway train, how to we -- this clause come about? host: mark in westwood, new jersey. democrat line. caller: i want to urge everyone to talk to their representatives did especially residents of west virginia and arizona, talk to all their representatives to get this build back better act passed. we need to spend all of this money. all of a sudden the republicans are worried about spending money, but they ran a base -- ran up the -- they ran up

trillions in their last tax cut through trump. that all went to rich people. as far as the gentleman from minnesota, i am paying more taxes now and i am retired, mostly living on social security. his whole diatribe against the people watching who pay no taxes is totally false. i want also point out that the united states has spent seven point $3 trillion building and maintaining nuclear weapons. this does nothing for us. this will destroy us. now we want to spend three point $5 trillion on infrastructure, human infrastructure, trying to combat climate change and everyone is crying it is too much? wrong. we need to spend that money and stop throwing money down the nuclear hellhole. host: usa today, mail service is

about to slow down. americans frustrated with the slow service of the postal service since the beginning of the pandemic won't be thrilled to hear this. the service is about to get slower. starting friday, the postal service will implement new service standards for first-class mail and periodicals. city spokeswoman in an email. the changes mean an increased time in transit for mail traveling long distances such as new york to california. philadelphia, conrad on the republican line. caller: good morning. i would like to ask a question, how come every time we have these problems in the white house, american citizens have to wait? we've always got away. we can't get this because it's too high, but they give to israel, pakistan, saudi arabia, they give them all our tax dollars and they don't have to wait for nothing.

for all the democrats and republicans in the white house, the corporate gets everything they want. host: to judy in delaware. independent line. caller: how are you? host: fine, thanks. caller: i just have to say there was an individual on your show the other day that said money is just paper. in this new bill, there is tree equity. also, money is and made from trees and they don't grow on them either. also, this new thing is going to put the burden on our children. we need to think about that. i think we just need to get rid of both parties because i'm independent. some things i agree with, some things i do not agree with on both sides, but the vile insults

, dehumanizing each other because of political presence is ridiculous. to unite this country, get rid of both parties and put people in there that can do the job. period. and watch america come together. no more fighting, no more degradation, none of that. that is my view. host: more ahead on washington journal. we are joined next by congresswoman judy chu. she will be talking to us about the possibility of a government shutdown, votes on infrastructure and the future of roe v. wade. ♪ announcer: download c-span's mobile app and stay up-to-date. live streams at the house and senate floor, key congressional

hearings, white house events, supreme court arguments. even our program washington journal, where we hear your voices every day. c-span now has you covered. download the app for free today. announcer: democratic and republican members of congress face-off in the annual congressional baseball game for charity. watch live today from nationals park. first pitch at 7:05 p.m. eastern. c-span2, online at c-span.org, or our new video app c-span now. thursday, education secretary miguel cardona and health and human services secretary hobby are becerra testified on schools reopening during the covid-19 pandemic. live coverage of this committee hearing begins at 10:00 eastern on c-span3 and online at c-span.org. you can also watch full coverage

on c-span now come our new video app. washington journal continues. host: we are joined by congresswoman judy chu. welcome. guest: thank you. host: busy week in the house with the potential on a vote on infrastructure tomorrow and possible action on the 3.5 trillion dollar budget reconciliation package. if the speaker is able to bring that to the floor, where do you stand on voting for it? guest: i will vote for it. absolutely. there was a promise made we would bring both bills to the floor, and i would be voting for both the bipartisan infrastructure bill as well as the bill back better human infrastructure bill.

host: there is still negotiation going on potentially on a final figure. yahoo! reported the president and some democratic leaders were talking about changes. there headline says, free college, shrink that reconciliation bill. you see areas of compromise and that bill for those who are reluctant to vote for it? guest: what i want is up bottom-line number. i know we in the house are interested in getting a bill passed that could actually get the votes in the senate. it is unclear right now what the amount is that is acceptable to all senators. we want an indication of what that is. i was encouraged that president biden talked to senator manchin

and senator sinema. i hope we have a better indication of what that bottom line is. once you have that number, you can look at specific programs to see what you can do with them, whether you have to shave them down or whether these programs can continue. host: we opened our programming talk to just democrats only and separated our lines by moderates and progressives because it seems that is where the fault line lies. the headline also in political -- politico, progressives dig in as pelosi tries to save key vote. is that too much of an outside view of how democratic members of the house relate to each other? or is there a considerable lock of progressives who would vote against the package if the budget reconciliation package is

not addressed? guest: i think the democrats -- all persuasions -- want to have a bill back better bill. -- build back better bill. this is something that is badly needed because we have an income divide in this country, we have a situation where the rich are getting richer, but working families are feeling increasingly like they just can't make ends meet. especially with the pandemic. i have talked to moderates, i would consider myself a progressive, they tell me that yes, they want to see a build back better bill passed. the question is, in what form? host: we shared with our view -- with our viewers uncertainty

about when vote times would happen today and what the house may even actually take up. despite the uncertainty of suspension bills, what is the latest? what are you hearing you might take up in the house? guest: we have not gotten the schedule yet for what we might take up, nor what the time would be. it is in flux, but it is our hope we can address the most pressing issues, the continuing resolution that would keep government open, and to debt ceiling. i am hoping we can have a discussion on those and that we can have floor action. nonetheless, it does require certain agreements. what we know is that we need to make sure that government remains open as of thursday night.

time is pressing us on these issues. host: congresswoman to his our guest. -- representative chu is our guest. for democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. all others (202) 748-8002. on npr, the house passes a bill meant to counter texas style abortion bands. tell us about that measure. what would it do? why was it passed? guest: the women's health protection act is something that will enshrine the protections of roe v. wade into law. it will allow patients to receive the care they need and priors -- providers to provide abortion care without the

medically restrictive laws passed by the states. we started this law in 2013 when we saw there were hundreds of bills passed in various states that were medically unnecessary, that dictated such things as the width of clinic doors, that mandated that doctors have admitting privileges in particular hospitals, or mandated unnecessary ultrasound. the seven nothing to do with providing abortion care. as a result, we introduced the women's health per -- women's health protection act. when the texas law was passed, we said this is the time. the texas law was so restrictive that it was bone chilling. imagine you would have private

citizens set against private citizens, that you would have vigilante county hunters who would go after anybody who helped somebody have an abortion ended would target everybody from the dark -- dr., to staff, to the uber driver who takes the patient to the clinic. the abortion rights issue was so important, we immediately put this on the floor, and yes, it passed friday with a vote of 218-211. it is the most supportive pro-choice bill in the history of congress. host: news last night about the arizona abortion bill. a federal judge blocked part of that bill from taking effect, hours before it takes effect. you have that and the supreme court session begins next weekend they are taking up that

case, that mississippi abortion case, was part of your reasoning for taking up that measure to get ahead of what the ruling may be by the supreme court this term? guest: yes. we were alarmed by the texas nondecision. they just allowed the texas law to go through without even having a hearing or opinion on the issue. but of course, we also know the mississippi law is coming down the pike. that is to ban abortion after 15 weeks. we know that there are critical decisions that could impact or eliminate roe v. wade which has been precedent in the united states for 50 years. that is also why we introduced and passed the women's health protection act in the house. once it does get past, it is the

law of the land and states cannot pass restrictive laws that would impede a woman's access to abortion. host: what about the senate? guest: leader schumer has announced he will put a vote in the senate on the floor. we are encouraged by that. we do know there are 48 senate cosponsors. there's a chance that there could be a majority vote for the bill. because there are two republican pro-choice senators. there also is one senator democrat who is still contemplating. there is that chance that we could get a strong vote. nonetheless, the filibuster would prevent the bill from

passing, which is why i think we also have to illuminate the filibuster. host: our guest is the seven term representative from pasadena, california. she has been chair of the asian pacific american caucus. judy chu. let's go to christina in mcdonough, georgia. democrat line. caller: good morning. i think that democrats should highlight a little bit more of the benefits that are in the build back better deal for the elderly. you need to talk more about the plans for the disabled, how president biden wants to do more in-home care and increase pay for nursing home workers. you need to highlight that a little more because i noticed more emphasis on childcare,

family leave, but you are not highlighting the things that will benefit the elderly and i think people need to know more about this. republicans to a good job at criticizing, but people have got to understand that republicans are not for them. they are getting richer. they are doing damage, but they do -- they don't care nothing about the people and they talk about spending, but they gave themselves all this money. the conservative media -- people have to understand they have been paid by corporate interests. democrats need to do a better job at highlighting the things they want to do for the people. host: thank you. guest: thank you for saying that. you're giving me an opportunity to talk about the tremendous benefits of build back better. this is a bill that will cut taxes for the middle class, it

will create more jobs, especially through initiatives on climate change, it will lower costs for working families. i want to especially emphasize what it does do for seniors. for one thing, caregiving is so important for seniors. and yet, there are enormous costs to family when there is caregiving, especially for the elderly. this bill gives the one in five americans providing unpaid care to love one's with long-term care needs up to $2000 to shoulder the in our missed cost of caregiving. that is in our caregiver tax credit. and then come of bill does so much on health care. this bill, for one thing, will do something long-overdue, increase the benefits of medicare in vision, hearing and

dental. it would add those benefits and it would also do something that has been very difficult for the elderly, pay for the prescription drugs they need. we in america pay the highest prices for prescription drugs out of any country in the world. that is not right. this bill would lower the price of prescription drugs by allowing federal agencies to negotiate on the price of prescription drugs in medicare, which is the biggest purchaser of prescription drugs. for once, prescription drugs can be affordable. i talked to people who go to canada and mexico four times the year --

host: we go to alabama. darrell, go ahead. caller: i guess you could say that republican politics and care about republican voters and democrat politicians care about democrat voters. i would say raising all the spending would a road the dollar -- he rode to the dollar, which is effectively taxing the middle class. there is going to be politician rich class, and poor, no middle class. i would be surprised if there any benefits from this. i could be wrong. i would like to see what happens. likely it will go down in flames. who knows? guest: this bill does not benefit just democrats.

it does not benefit just republicans. it benefits everybody, regardless of what party you belong to. we are concerned about making sure working families get a leg up, that they are able to afford health care, education and childcare, that they are able to afford the drugs that they need. here is something i have to emphasize, how this bill is paid for. in fact, this bill is paid for totally by a number of measures, and it is paid for by making sure the wealthiest and corporations pay their fair share of taxes. right now we have a situation where they do not. last year, 55 of the largest corporations paid zero dollars in federal income tax, yet they

made over $40 billion of profit. ceo's made more than 350 times what the average worker does at their company. billionaires have seen their wealth go up i 1.8 trillion dollars since the pandemic began. the top 1% evade about $160 billion in taxes each year. this will make sure that those wealthiest persons and corporations do actually pay their fair share and nobody who makes under $400,000 a year will be paying for this did it will be the wealthiest. host: let's hear from ray in aurora, colorado. caller: good morning. i think this there's -- i think this is the third time i have been on.

anyway. representative chu, i am a libertarian but i happen to be of filipino descent. i think twice in my life i have been asked about my nationality or where i was born by people who happened to be white. i bring this up because i think about the statistics of instances that is typically cited from stop api hate. those -- i face, i would not put it into the category of hate, as i would with what happened with --, of philippine dissent as well, who was attacked out in the open by brandon elliott, who happens to be black, shouting

f-you. guest: i have been working on combating anti-asian hate since the beginning of the pandemic. any api's have borne the brunt of people's hatred and anxiety about covid-19. it was exacerbated by former president trump using the term china virus. as a result, for this past year and a half, many have been targeted with anti-asian hate crimes and incidents. by hate crimes, i mean something that would qualify as a crime such as assault or murder. by hate incidents, i mean shouting and racial slurs

somebody might experience. in my opinion, both hate crimes and hate incidents are traumatic because apis, many have been in this country for a very long time, decades. many were born in this country. they would not expect to be targeted just for being who they are. and yet, the stop api hate website has reported 9000 incidents against asians since the beginning of the pandemic. that is why we work overtime to get legislation passed, and we did get legislation passed called the covid-19 hate crimes act. thankfully, it has a large vote

in both the senate and the house and was signed into law by president biden in may. there is still so much more work to do. we have to create greater awareness and make sure apis know that there are resources for them. host: jamie in evansville, indiana. caller: hello? host: you are on the air. caller: thanks. i was -- i would like to know if you all are going to send stimulus to people. we are hurting out here and we are counting on you. y'all never talk about poor people. it's always the last thing. we would like to know if you are going to be able to help us. guest: i'm glad you said what you did because it shows the dire needs that are out there.

the build back better bill does so much to address what you are talking about. for instance, the child tax credit is a tax cut for families with children. right now, those with children are getting these checks, but this is going to disappear at the end of the pandemic. we need to make sure these families that are struggling continue to get -- to make sure they can feed their families. and, our bill expands the earned income tax credit for workers who are amongst the lowest paid. it will make sure that they continue getting the tax credit they need to make ends meet. we are making sure that there is

housing that will be affordable. this bill will result in nearly 1.4 million new affordable rental units over the next 10 years. and it invests tens of billions of dollars into businesses and homes in low income communities across the country. and, how about health care? there are certain states that did not take advantage of expanding their medicaid when the affordable care act was going through. what we do in this bill is close that medicaid coverage gap by helping more than 2 million low income adults access hi quality, affordable health care coverage. we make sure that they get the health care that they need. so yes, this does a lot to make

sure our most vulnerable have the resources they need. host: in the continued resolution passed by the house, included was a suspension of the debt ceiling through next december. the senate has blocked that. this morning, the rules committee is meeting. punch bowl reporting -- to set up a clean debt limit vote. this is going to be messy, he says. somehow democratic moderates are all getting at the strata though to lift the debt limit. would you support a clean debt limit bill? guest: i absolutely would support a clean debt limit bill. it is our responsibility to make sure we are able to pay the bills that come to the federal government. there will be dire consequences if we do not pass this debt ceiling bill.

let me say, we shouldn't even be doing this in the first place. all developed countries to not have this situation where the legislature has to continue to increase the debt ceiling. it is something that should be handled by the treasurer of the united states, or some other entity. to have this artificially made crisis every year is just horrible. nonetheless, the crisis at hand is ensuring we do have this debt ceiling limit bill passed. i cannot believe republicans would be so responsible as to not let us pass this bill without a filibuster. if they don't want to vote for

it, ok, but do not use the filibuster to stop this bill from going through. that is so incredibly irresponsible. i strongly urge them to do the responsible thing and at least let this bill go through the senate on a straight up vote. host: the house coming in at 10:00, so we will get a call or two more with representative chu. this is wayne in indiana. caller: iq. i think the problem is democrats and republicans -- every time. they need to sit down and go to work like regular working people and give respect to this country. they got too much money they want to spend and they don't want to leave no money in the government. donald trump, he already put the money in for the border to be

fixed. why has it stopped? we've got more people coming in here then we have jobs. you are cramming people in here that shouldn't be here. host: on the border issue, your thoughts representative? guest: president biden had to fix the facilities at the border that were abandoned by trump. we have an asylum system here. those who are coming to the border can ask for asylum. based on credible fear. but, all those entities were torn apart under former president trump. they have to be rebuilt. i believe that it is important that we allow those who are in incredible need to be able to

present their case at the border , and then once there is some that hang through our judicial system -- the vetting through our judicial system, we should let them deal with the decision but the important thing is to make sure the system of seeking asylum is in place. host: judy chu represents the 27th district of california, sits on the ways and means committee. the house is coming in momentarily. we thank you for joining us. guest: thank you for having me. host: that will do it for the program. we are back tomorrow morning at 7:00 eastern and we hope you are too. the house is coming in next. morning speeches first and at noon they will be in for legislative business for potential