jeff byers discussed their podcast "this week," with topics of how paid sick leave impact public health. all that and your calls, texts and tweets. washington journal starts now. ♪ host: the monthly jobs reports are an opportunity to take the pulse of the economy, but they become more critical during covid. although the unappointed rate dropped in september, the 194,000 jobs added fell far short of the half a million many economists and policymakers anticipated. is that a bump on the road to economic recovery or sign of a slower growth in the workforce and the broader economy? it is washington journal for saturday, october 9, 2021. welcome to the program.

we will spend the first hour asking you how you feel about the economy. optimistic, pessimistic, or somewhere in between? if you call the (202) 748-8001. sent us a text at (202) 748-80 2 [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, -- (202) 748-8003. we are on facebook. you can send your posts, post your thoughts on twitter and instagram. optimistic, pessimistic, your economic situation, employment situation, how you feel about things like inflation at the supermarket? you can start dialing in and sending your thoughts on washington journal. the washington post. america unemployed will go back to work when they feel safe and well compensated.

heather long is the author of the lead piece in this morning's paper. good morning, heather. guest: thanks for having me. host: let me ask about the hiring you point out was the weakest hiring of the year. 194,000 jobs. why such a shortfall? guest: there is no doubt the delta variant, the coronavirus surge played a heavy toll on the economy. you can see it by looking across where the hiring happened. for much of the spring and summer we saw a lot of hiring happening at restaurants and stores, entertainment venues. there was some hiring that happened in september but it was a big drop off. only about 2000 people were hired in hotels. travel slowed down a bit.

even restaurants only sell about 29,000 people hired -- saw 29,000 people hired last month. as i tried to write, we are seeing this ongoing great resignation. i call it the great reassessment of work. over and over i hear from people who say, look, i want to get back to work but i have childcare issues. the reopening of schools was not as smooth as we would have liked. some people also had to stay home to continue to care for those who were ill with the virus or had various health risks. host: you point out in your article the numbers are striking. 309,000 women over the age of 20 dropped out of the labor force in september. they quit work or halted jobs. guest: it is stunning. we saw the same thing last september.

it was worse last september but this is a clear indication. while over 300,000 women dropped out in september, about 182,000 men joined the labor force. the vast majority of the job gains we did see last month went to men. i don't like to be so gender focused but i think the message, the take away here is that school reopening was not as smooth as it could be. how childcare problems are not solved. i spoke to moms and women, but it often falls on moms. they say i thought everything was ready to go. i thought my child would be back in school and i could focus on work or my job search. then there are bus driver issues or i got this note that the afterschool program was canceled. i talked to a woman who managed to go back to a job for about a month at the end of august.

then had to stop because the afterschool program was canceled from short staffing at her district. host: policymakers and lawmakers had anticipated the end of the federal -- the extra federal unemployment insurance, the extra federal aid would boost hiring in september. that did not happen. guest: it didn't. it is the same story for the last four months. some states rolled off the extra unemployment benefits early. now over labor day it happened across the country. i would note president biden endorsed the rollback over labor day. it was not just a republican idea. yeah, the evidence continues to be that it is not the main factor holding people back from work. there was certainly no massive rush right back into jobs after those benefits went away.

a lot of people argue there is optimism for hiring that could pick up later this year and into 2022. you could argue, ok, the unemployment benefits went away. people still have some savings from that. maybe there will be more active job searching later this year. the big take away is there was a lot more going on here than just people sitting at home collecting on employment aid. host: a companion at washingtonpost.com is worth looking at. the rise in job numbers over the summer, then down in august and september. during that time the white house push for vaccine mandates across a number of areas. any indication that vaccine mandates are having any effect on limiting hiring or keeping

people out of going into work? guest: it is interesting you asked that. there was a decline of about 10,000 to 20,000 workers in the health care sector, in particular in long-term care facilities or nursing homes. again, it is hard to read. there has been a lot of burnout. there has been some health issues. outbreaks in nursing homes over the past few months. it is hard to know did people leave because they did not want to get the shot or the vaccine, 40 people leave because they were just really frustrated with the conditions they have been working in. we don't know enough to say. that did jump out at me, that there was some decline there. host: our guest is heather long. she has a lead piece at washington post.com on the economy, the workforce and more. you can follow her. thank you for the update this morning. host: thank you.

are you optimistic or pessimistic about the economy? more broadly about things like inflation. what may be ahead for the rest of the year. is the rise of the delta variant still a factor in your economic decisions? mountain and pacific, (202) 748-8001. let's go first to state college, pennsylvania. ben, good morning. caller: good morning. i am pessimistic about the economy. hopefully not long term but as it stands today. in my opinion, and i say this as an ardent supporter of the former president trump, it started when covid started in

march and february of 2020. paying people twice as much on unemployment when they were working jobs, that created an almost expectation of wages to rise when things resolved and it was ok to go back to work. we see this with wages being driven up, not by laws passed by congress to raise minimum wage, but people being paid eight dollars an hour is not paying $17 an hour here in pennsylvania. i'm not blooming president trump for that. i'm not blaming president biden for that. it is just a result of the pandemic. host: what kind of work are you doing them? caller: i work at penn state university. host: have they raised wages there? caller: no. prior to working at penn state i did work in the hospitality industry. along with the restaurant industry, any service industry

is negatively affected by the pandemic. in the hospitality industry they pretty much crashed. moving to the university i have much more stable job but i just started in june of 2021. not much time for a pay increase. host: congratulations on the new job. larry in maryland, good morning. caller: good morning. i am pessimistic. joe biden with his foolish policies. the buildup of cargo ships on the west coast. this situation with the invasion at the southern border. the mandates. over 100,000 businesses destroyed because of this chinese virus. this biological weapon. the derivatives in the bond market are going to collapse and

we are facing a second depression. host: albert in austin, texas. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i want to chime in about people leaving the workforce. i'm glad you asked about the vaccine and if people are leaving because of the vaccine. we don't really know, right? the thing i wanted to talk about is universal basic income. i'm a small business under libertarian. i realize what's happening to society, modern society. we need to have a conversation about universal basic income, or maybe a -- what is it called? an income tax, reverse income tax. the libertarian idea.

milton friedman was trying to bring it up. different ways to help mitigate some of the problems people are having with their jobs. i don't know what will happen in the future but the workforce has changed. host: how does a universal basic income work? caller: there are two ways to go about it. i like the idea of the reverse income tax. you have a poverty line cap. if you get paid less money, you get tax money back. but you have to get rid of a lot of bureaucracies to help pay for it. the other way is like -- i have heard you somehow tax the technology companies that take your data, your email and this stuff. we contact them and make them pay you for it. we use that money to make universa basic income.

the premise is everyone has a basic income so you can pay for rent, pay for food. i know it is a weird idea. people think it is communism or whatever, socialism. people that live under a poverty line will not make it. they cannot live. just a different idea to think about. i'm not saying we rush in, but this is a new economy, new world. host: thanks for explaining that for us. (202) 748-8000 for the eastern and central time zones. (202) 748-8001 for mountain and pacific. our conversation this first hour is about the economy. optimistic, pessimistic after the monthly child support yesterday? the wall street journal concerned with their late opinion piece. where did all the workers give? employers added 194,000 jobs in september, the second negative monthly surprise and a rope. further down they say, what is

causing the worker shortage? one possible culprit is government and vaccine mandates that set ultimatums or workers. president biden's vaccine war first applied to nursing homes. many states and school districts have also imposed mandates. state and local educational claimant fell 161,000. the white house claims the vaccine mandates will boost employment, but not if unvaccinated workers quit. the pandemic enhanced unlimited benefits ended in survey -- early september. next month my provide better data on that score. there are many payments to don't require work, including the $300 a month allowance per child. some have saved transfer payments and democrats are promising more. here is what president biden

said yesterday about the jobs number. [video] pres. biden: today, for the first time since march of 2020, he make an unemployment rate is below 5%. in just eight months since i became president in the midst of a public and economic crisis, the unemployment rate is below 5%. 4.8%. let me repeat that. today's report has the unemployment rate down to 420%. a significant -- 4.8%. a sign our recovery is moving forward, even in the face of a covid pandemic. that improvement was widespread. on a climate for hispanic workers was down. the unemployment rate for african-americans felt almost a full percent. it is now below 8% for the first time in 17 months. a drop thousand in long-term and employment is the second largest

single drop since we have started keeping records. the largest was in july. in the past three months we have seen a drop of 1.3 million long-term unemployed. that is the largest three-month fall since we started keeping records in 1948. more to do but great progress. working americans are seeing the paychecks go up as well. in september, we saw one of the largest increases in average wages paid to workers -- working americans on record. host: here is what al from arkansas has to say about the topic this morning. "i am pessimistic about the economy. where i live fuel costs, food, utilities has gone up. i am retired and on a fixed income. these increases are hurting retirees, low and middle income families. as far as jobs, they are plenty but they are part-time minimum wages with little benefits." " i heard young people living with mommy and daddy are not

showing up for work at restaurants. the restaurants are lacking bodies." "as long as we believe -- the rest of us is to pay for rich people's economy." your thoughts on the economy. adel is springfield, illinois. caller: good morning. is this john? host: no. sorry. caller: i apologize. i usually don't call when you're the host. i usually call when it is greta because she is the second best moderator. you know the number one moderator that is beloved everyone? host: no one would disagree with you. what is your thought on the economy? caller: one topic before i get to that. it is his 80th birthday today so i want to wish him a happy birthday.

host: we will chime in on that. thank you. go ahead. caller: wonderful. my comment in terms of the economy is, these are cyclical things that occur in the economy. there are ups and downs. either the stock market does well. when main street ok, it helps wall street. there is an underpaid sector of the employment we are talking about. those that are minimum-wage jobs. they are hurting in the hotels, and the restaurant industry. and there are jobs in trucking. it is also in england. they are having a gas shortage because they don't have enough truck drivers. it will balance itself out

because what needs to happen is employer's need to look at how can they attract workers in terms of benefits and higher pay. they have to come up with that. cheap labor no longer exists in this market. that is part of how the labor force has its strength. they can unionize. there is a stronger opinion of unionization. an important concept that capitalism tends to fix itself. in terms of biden, each president has their own tax ideas. what is a word i can use? i can't think of the word. they have certain policies. trump had had pop -- had

policies of giving tax breaks to the rich. biden is trying to promote working people. for example, childcare. childcare is one of the reasons why moms are staying at home. he is trying to fix that. in terms of infrastructure, he is trying to get more people back to work. these are policies -- if joe manchin and kyrsten sinema can get out-of-the-way, we can get this country back on its feet to fix things that are broken and put people back to work. host: thanks for your call this morning. one area we talked about a lot is the health care field in terms of the employment, the issues and the stress on workers there. we don't talk a lot about first responders. this came out this morning from nbc about ems workers. ems warns of a crippling shortage.

i shortage nationwide is so dire that ambulance service providers -- even when it is a matter of life and death. companies have had to close, consolidate or come up with new strategies to answer calls the american and be less association president added there is not enough ems personnel to cover calls in many parts of the country, especially during the pandemic. cliff from san angelo, texas. caller: good morning. i will come at it from a little different angle that i have not heard. i have had covid long -- the so-called long-haulers disease for 16 months. i have been better at times than others. the last six months has been really bad. here is my opinion.

i would love for the so-called officials, the cdc, somebody, investigate. with the labor shortage i think a lot of those people are so sick they cannot work. we had an article in the san diego paper if u.s. ago -- a few weeks ago. the well-known virologist who estimated that of all the people who catch covid, 20% to 30% will become long-haulers. they are so fatigued they can hardly get out of bed in the morning. host: you are one of those persons, right? caller: yes. i am being treated right now by an expert mental group -- experimental group. i am starting to get better. i have been on medications for two and half weeks. i have two and half my weeks to and i'm getting better.

but i have an awfully sick for over year. my point is simple. we have had 700,000 deaths. those poor souls unfortunately, we can't count them in any statistic because they are gone. bless their souls. you have 150 million probably who have had covid. well, after a few weeks, most of them get well and they go on about their business. it is the long covid. if you put the numbers to it, there are 20 million to 25 million long covid sufferers as we speak. it is like they have fallen into a dark hole. nobody talks about it. take the truck drivers as an example. , look i have done a lot of traveling in my life. i stop at truck stops. these guys are tinkering with their trucks. they have, rotary between them.

they make good money. they make 60,000 to $75,000 year. i do believe they don't want to work. but i believe a lot of them have long haul -- i don't mean to make a pun. i think a lot of them have moved in with their parents or friends. they got lost in the system. host: how old are you and are you retired with this long-haul covid? caller: i am 74. i'm retired. i was a professional athlete all my life. it is the worst thing that could happen to me because i've had no energy to go out and pursue what i have enjoyed doing all my life. i'm getting better now. please, the authorities that are out there, pay attention to this disease. it is there.

it is as bad as covid and it lasts longer. we have got to get some therapeutics with it. we have got to pay attention. we have to address the issue. think about it. host: i hope you get better and call us back next month from texas. kevin brady, the ranking member on the ways and means committee. yesterday he said this. "this is more dreadful news for america's slowing recovery, for mainstreet businesses working to find workers and families. president biden is short from his last stimulus and has lost the confidence of the macon people to lead the economy. if this were a football team with this losing record, the coach would be searching for a new job at this point." rebecca in merced, california. caller: good morning.

i believe the reason we are having problems is because we have varying degrees of ptsd. is there a vaccine for that? people are not lazy. people are sick. mentally and physically. america's mental health is in question. if we would calm down and get things together, we are opening the doors so wide for trump to walk right in, sit right down and let his hair hang down. we are going through some very serious times. i also believe we won't see any light until possibly 2024. we are in some -- we are in the modern dark ages. we are living through a dark age. i would like to try to encourage people that you are not crazy. you are probably suffering from ptsd. i'm sure that in this book about

long-haulers, part of that is ptsd. please get help if you need it. host: tevarez from athens, georgia. optimistic or pessimistic? caller: before i get into it, i want to thank that caller for letting us know that -- happy birthday. we owe you a debt of gratitude. we could never repay you for it. you have done the thinking. i have big emotions about the economy. i am running a small trucking company. i see a lot of things going on. there is a malaise. the american people are sick.

as another caller said, it is coming from this lockdown, this great reset. whatever they're doing to try to vaccinate or stop this coronavirus, covid-19, but we can't stop this economy. then expected to start back up like it was before. we the thinking american people have got to be oriented on being good people. this wonderful nation, we have got to make the most of it. we can't be hostile. let's make this place what it has always been. thank you so much, bill. host: thank you. despite foreign business, trump's hotel lost billions during his term.

donald trump's luxury hotel lost $70 million will he was in office, despite reaping millions of payments from foreign governments. according to federal documents released on friday, the committee chair released hundreds of pages of financial documents upon the hotel on friday it received from the general services administration, which has leased the property to trump companies since 2013. trump was required to submit documents to the gsa as a condition of his lease. alani and gerald connolly say the document shows trump received an estimated $3.7 million from foreign governments and got preferential treatment from deutsche bank, which previously load trump $170 million to --

during his term in office when he was effectively on both sides of the contract. as landlord and tenant. the two democrat said the press secretary was asked yesterday about another issue about president trump was a the january 6 commission on capitol hill. here is her response. >> can you confirm that the white house has authorized [indiscernible] ? >> the administration takes the events of january 6 incredibly seriously. this is a six month anniversary. this is a test of whether democracy could survive. it was, in many respects, an attack on the foundations of democracy. this is to ensure that this will never happen again. the administration is cooperating with ongoing

investigations, including the select committee to bring to light. the president believes the assertion of executive privilege is not warranted for the documents from the trump white house required by the national archives. this will be an ongoing process. this is just the first step -- set of documents. we will evaluate privilege on a case-by-case basis, but the president believes it is of the utmost importance for the american people to have complete understanding of the events of that day to prevent them from happening again. host: our opening conversation focuses on the economy after the job numbers came out yesterday. are you optimistic or pessimistic? for the eastern time zone, (202) 748-8000.

nancy pelosi with this tweet yesterday. there is an additional need for building back better agenda. low unemployment will help beat the pandemic and we must do more to protect financial security. congressman alex mooney says that this is the worst jobs report of the year, and it is a direct result of joe biden in nancy pelosi's outlandish economic policy. from the democratic congressman of virginia, since joe biden took office, the economy has added 5 million jobs. it is a new pandemic era low at 4.8%. the labor market is continuing to tighten. another democrat said, at self-inflicted crisis. the administration is holding help signs while seven point 7 million americans are unemployed. let's hear from rory in

california. caller: good morning. i work part-time in long beach insecurity, and a lot of the ships are being forced out of there. there are a lot of chokepoints, and a lot of trackers are not working well. there are a lot of people in california, in orange county, who are looking to improve the economy. they talk about impeaching biden and harris so we will not have to listen to her. we need the oil turned back on. when biden talks to the arabs and says can you lower the price, why can't we have american oil turned back on with the pipeline? i guess that is about it for the moment. goodbye. host: robert. michigan. either. -- hello there.

caller: i would like to talk about the schoolteacher who is discussing hypocrisy yesterday. she was spot on about teachers and students not respecting the teachers. anyway, i feel pretty confident that we are going to keep on rolling, and as long as the trump's or stay away from the white house, -- trumpsters stay away from the white house, it will get better. we have been through some difficult times with the virus in the pandemic, but in due time, it will get better. this country runs on its own merits. nothing can stop this country from going the way it is. you can combine capitalism with a little bit of socialism, and we got it made. this is why other countries can -- particularly communist countries -- hate this country.

we are the greatest country in the world. we are the greatest country the world has ever seen. i spent four years in the military, supporting the constitution. it is a shame that trump was not a constitutionalist. he tried to reason his way around the constitution and his own -- and he will feel better when the truth comes out. host: trish in seattle, good morning. caller: good morning, you all. here is a status of what is going on in seattle. they had multiple theories that were not operable because they did not have the crew staff. there was a vaccine mandate and a lot of people in the public sector did not want to get it.

that goes to teachers and health care. the police department, 300 of them, have not been vaccinated. we are already down after the long summer last year. the health care, trying to get into a hospital for reasonable care, you cannot, because they are full of unvaccinated people. they are shipping their people into our hospitals. i do not feel confident. kids cannot get the school. same with the bus drivers. there is a shortage about strivers -- bus drivers. we don't have enough vaccinated bus drivers. going into the pharmacy, i had to wait for an hour after i called it in three days ahead of time. the storyline, we do not have enough workers. it is a hot mess everywhere. people do not have jobs, they do not have jobs that pay to afford

rent. we have a huge homeless population. it is a situation going on here. we have a mayoral election coming up. that is a hot mess. kathy lambert ran for city council, and she sends out these racist postcards. everyone is divided. everyone is thoroughly passed off, and i would be one of them. i quit my job. i am ready to collect social security. host: why did you quit? caller: i was a nurse case manager for a health insurance company that primarily focuses on medicaid and medicare people. i worked from home, so i was grateful for that. listening to these poor people's stories. they were poor and sick and

lonely, and there was no mental health available for these people. everyone says we need more mental health. there is nobody doing it. i got burned out. it was affecting me mentally. i said, i will take my savings and i will wait until i get on medicare in january -- excuse me, on social security. i have already started on medicare. what is going on in washington, d.c. at local levels, it is going up and down. i am thoroughly, thoroughly annoyed, and that is being very kind to say that. host: we can hear in your voice. i appreciate you calling in. i really do. some comments from mike in orlando, florida. he is highly copter mr. --

highly optimistic. once the infrastructure bill is passed, there'll be more hind bills paying bills in the future. greed is a great motivator. a tale of two economies. the disease is still everywhere. there is a lack of good health care in poor areas, and it is devastating were more died than are being counted. the economy is not so good for the 99%. if we work together, we can get through this. i believe we will. our country will never be lacking an opportunity. on the supply chain, this is on the front page of the wall street journal. global supply problems worsen. go -- global supply chain bottleneck surf eating on one another. searching prices of critical raw materials are squeezing any factors around the world. we are already showing signs of choking off the recovery in some regions. part of the problem is a global

economy that is out of sync on the pandemic, restrictions, and recovery. retailers and western economies that have largely emerged from lockdowns are eager for finished products, from materials, and components from alongside best longtime suppliers -- longtime suppliers in asia. there are coronavirus restrictions constricting the abilities to meet demands. the washington -- wall street journal rights, while their people leaving the workforce, it is throwing further obstacles away to producers. in ohio, james, good morning. go ahead. caller: i have to remind people that everybody wants to tasks -- tax the rich. my boss is a rich man, but he creates jobs. the government does not create jobs. they create taxes.

you are not going to grow this economy if you tax rich people. that is about it. host: david in los angeles, good morning. [indiscernible] caller: one of the things that is being reported is that there is a lot of international investors speculating in residential property, which is in california, just crazy. million-dollar houses in silverlake. lou color communities. -- blue-collar communities with speculation from international financiers. what is going on here? i am hearing from your thoughtful viewers who are commenting on the state of affairs as it relates to the

oppression of the economic system. politicians -- you take joe manchin for example. you have two people standing up the progress of a nation of people. it could lend itself towards mitigating the crisis ease that the masses are suffering from. -- crisis is that the -- the crisises that the masses are suffering from. come on now, people. at some point, we are going to have to pull our heads out of our rectums and realize that what we perceive as enterprise has nothing to do with america. so, for people like these who

propagandize through right-wing programs like fox, they are financed by corporate america think tanks that corrupted the minds of the people that we get the kind of nonsense like the fellow who got on before me, spewing out about what business people do. you understand. are you still with me? host: thank you for calling in. akron, ohio. caller: a lot has happened since i called in. [indiscernible] the black community. if you look at cleveland, ohio.

they were sending people to hospitals. 40% of the people in cleveland are vaccinated. cleveland is 60 or 70% black. you have these people getting shots and this and that. that is a big problem. this is going on around the globe. most likely, something is wrong for whatever reason, i don't know. it is crazy. as the guy was just mentioning, kyrsten sinema and what was his name? joe manchin. holding things up. that is a big problem for us as well. i had you on speaker phone, i am sorry. that is a big problem as well. you can't get anything done. what i was going to say originally was about the unemployment. here is a problem.

first of all, 700,000 died. i don't know what percentage of those were workers, but they are gone. it is impossible to rehire them, because they are gone. we can't let them in. now you have people that realize they were putting in a lot of hours, and i do not need that many hours because the time that we were shut down, i save that money it i am not going back to work. i did not have to go to work. i am on social security or retirement, and they do not have to go back. those people are on the workforce, and you ask for the workers are at? there are a lot of jobs right here, but you have people that are ill and cannot go back. any of people who are not coming back.

nobody is addressing that. i don't care where they come from -- you have workers. minimum wage, if you have a guy who says he does not these two jobs anymore, most of these people were minimum wage employees. host: people who might want to come back to the workforce, james -- do you think that wages in general have to come up even higher? caller: the wages have to come up, but there are other things that are involved. if you look at the people at poverty level, food stamps and assistance, most of these people are in the area. for that reason alone, you have to increase -- how can a guy work at walmart on food stamps and work 40 hours? a lot of these people are working and they cannot get food

stamps and get rental assistance, so what are we talking about? host: thank you for your call. this is about wages. cnbc with a headline saying that strong wage gains suggest that inflation is not going away anytime soon. the september wage gains provided more fuel to the argument that the current pace of inflation could run longer than many in ghana must -- economies anticipated. hourly wages rose 6%, making the euro over increased 4.6% over the past six months. rages are running at an average 6% annual game. after the jobs number came out, the president spoke about his build back better agenda. here's the president. >> overall, the unemployment report shows that 200,000 jobs were created last month. there were 26,000 in

manufacturing. there were seasonal adjustments in education and hiring. the monthly totals bounce around, but the trend is solid. on average, 600,000 new jobs were created every month since i took office. in a three month before i got there, that was 1/10 of what was created. it was 60,000 as opposed to 600,000 jobs a month. in total, the job creation of the first eight months might administration -- of my administration is 5 million jobs. jobs are up, wages are up, unemployment is down. that is progress. it is a tribute to the hard work and resilience of the american people. they are battling through his pandemic. we are working to keep businesses afloat. remember, this is based on a survey that was taken during september the 13th. not today, september 13. when covid cases were averaging more than 150,000 per day.

since then, we have seen the daily cases fall by more than one third. they are continuing to trend down. continuing to make progress. host: republican congressman blake luke meyer is the ranking member of the committee. he said the abysmal 22, jobs report is the worst jobs report that american people have witnessed all your. with only 150,000 jobs added back to our economy, it is clear that president biden's failed economic policy is shutting small businesses. we have been facing eight labor crisis. what is the democrats response? spending in the face of the american taxpayer. we must uplift small businesses with regulatory growth and trillions of dollars of federal spending. let's get americans back to work. this is a tweet from bob in

hometown, illinois. he is pessimistic. we need to be energy independent again. we will transition to other forms of energy soon enough. the free market will see to that, not the government. this is i am getting optimistic about the economy. the expectation that the agenda will not pass congress. the $3.2 billion infrastructure plan will pass. 94,000 -- hundred 94,000 jobs gained in september is better than first glance. the recovery will take longer. michael is calling in florida. morning. caller: i am a little pessimistic. we are spending so much money and pretty so much money. the more we print, the less it is worth. in this globalization, it is not america. america is a free country. it is not free anymore.

these people are mad because of trump. the economy was so wonderful, the country was so great in 2018. these people have short memories. in 2018 before this hit, granted, trump had some mean tweets, but there were great policy. we were strong, energy independent, secure borders. the rest of the world was not doing anything stupid because they knew, even though trump mean tweets, he kept everyone in shrek -- check. there was nothing going on that was bad for the world and bad for the united states. since the pandemic, whether it was planned or whatever, that this pandemic has thrown the united states into a tailspin. it has thrown the world into a tailspin. it is all so that it can be one world organization, which is not what america stands for.

we can never go socialist. we have to stand our ground. we have to believe in god the father who created heaven and earth and go back to chronicles seven and trust in the lord. we need men and women who believe in god. we need to follow the steps in the bible that tells us how to live in harmony and prosper. host: we will go to dan in sioux falls, south dakota. are you optimistic or pessimistic on the economy? caller: i am very pessimistic. -- optimistic. in south dakota, the unappointed rate is 2.8%. the number one problem in usa today, everyone thinks it is because there are extra on employment benefits that is causing people not to go back to work. that is not true. i know republican do not like this, and the chamber of

commerce, but the fact of the matter is that all lot of women cannot go back to work because of childcare, and that is a huge problem. the other huge problem was the delta variant. the virus is causing a lot of people not to want to go back to work. we talked about school bus drivers, a lot of people who work at restaurants and stuff. a lot of unvaccinated people. they are the ones -- three reasons. unvaccinated people, they don't have childcare, and as far as mansion and cinema, do those democrats make more than $400,000 a year? they don't want to have taxes go up on them. as far as that guy who was calling and saying everything was great under trump, the only bill trump passed was a huge tax cut for the rich. he did not get immigration done, he did not get infrastructure done, he did not get anything

done but a tax cut for the rich. guess what? trickle-down economics does not work. just giving a huge tax cut to a huge corporation or a rich guy is not going to create jobs. i don't know what these republicans are thinking. if we cut taxes for the rich -- it will never work. trump did not get much done. as far as all this, i think part of the problem is that trump people do not want to contribute to our economy because they want biden to fail. i think that is another huge problem that a lot of people are not talking about. i just want people to get vaccinated and go back to work, so we can have our kids go back to school. my body is a big trump guy -- he was mad that he got the vaccine, but the reason he got the vaccine was because he didn't want to have his grandmother and mother died.

basically, you should get vaccinated help other people around you, and i don't know, maybe you can help save yourself, too. host: here is another comment from jason in manassas. the unemployment rate is only part of the story. the labor participation rate is lower than pre-pandemic level which was substantially lower than where the country needs to be to generate tax revenue. the states and fed need to pay for the current size of government. manassas is one of the many suburbs around washington, d.c. from where wage workers come into the nation's capital. there was an article in the washington post. absence of workers leaves d.c.. many thought the hustle and bustle of downtown d.c. would be back by july 4 and labor day, and now it is well into fall. there is a question about whether traditional office culture will fully return. the pandemic might have permanently altered the nation's capital. a report released by downtown

d.c. painted a bleak picture of fall in washington, dripping -- driven largely by the absence of 925 workers. -- 9:00 to 5:00 workers. only 25% of employees had returned to downtown buildings as of september. michigan, todd, good morning. caller: hopefully i have enough time about what i was going to say. host: glad you got through. caller: i appreciate it. here is the thing. the problem is the media. [indiscernible] my main sources of information are already america with jesse frontera -- ventura.

the other is free speech tv. that is where i get most of my info. the people who have opinions, when the calling, they only have opinions of what corporate media is going to tell them. there are 654 people in the united states who make up a fraction of the top 1%. these are the people that make all of the decisions. all of the media, all of the oil, all of the lobbies washington. host: rate, delaware. good morning. caller: i think a lot of this with the economy is based on politics. the democrats won't pass this, and the only way you are going to do this is running the

country into the ground where you have no choice. they're going to have to turn to the government to survive. there are two senators that are saying there are heavy taxes on it. the whole republican party and democrats. it is not just two. we are asking oil companies overseas to make more oil so we don't have to get her own oil. gas prices are going through the roof. we are looking at christmas and thanksgiving. all the ships are offshore that cannot get into get unloaded. i'm sure the american people are smart enough look at this and say how else is the democratic party going to pass this agenda? host: leon twitter says that the only way small businesses can succeed is to take a trust busting approach to our monopolistic economy.

next up is larry in washington. go ahead. caller: hello there. [indiscernible] the one caller called and said that what trump got done was true. my only comment on the economy is that we need more workers. i don't know why we keep them on the others of the border. -- other side of the border. we need some of them, that is my thought. people are retiring, and there are a lot of businesses that need workers. host: i appreciate you wearing in -- weighing in, larry.

we will be joined by arthur evans, the ceo of the american psychological association. we will be talking about the new report of the impact of the pandemic on american workers. later, jeff byers of health affairs will discuss their podcasts with recent discussion topics including paid sick leave and the impact on public health. ♪

>> nobody really thought that this was ever going to happen. that we would succumb to the nazis. it was unthinkable to finally happen because in the city of leipzig it was supposed to be a bastion of enlightenment and freethinking, and people were in an open society, and when the nazis went into poland, there were mass executions. it was terrible -- they executed liberals and freethinkers. everyone was scared as they came to paris. that was going to happen in paris as well. the author of the book taking paris, germany's four-year occupation of paris. and his liberation by american forces in august of 1944, watch it on q&a.

you can listen to q&a on our new c-span now app. watch unfiltered. c-span, in your pocket. download c-span now, today. >> "washington journal" continues. host: on -- arthur evans is the ceo of the american psychological association. his organization has just released their well-being survey for 2021. dr. evans, welcome to washington journal. >> thank you. host: joining us to talk about the effect of the pandemic on the american workforce in particular, the title of your report -- the american workforce basis compounding pressure. telus, first of all, from the

back end of this report, why do you do this report, and why these -- why does this differ from the previous one in 2019? guest: we have been very interested in the effect of stress on the markham populace, and we have been looking specifically at the workplace to see and understand how it affects the workplace. this particular survey shows that the pandemic is really happening. -- having an impact on workers, and it is taking a coal -- told. americans are more stressed than the last time we did this report. host: there is a big bar graphic showing that, in the report, the first graphic in there. the question is, how often do you feel stressed or stressed out during a typical workday? 71% of those he pulled -- those

you polled agreed with that. guest: that was an interesting question. one of the things we asked people was about their plans to switch jobs, and generally speaking, about 40% say they plant to switch their job in the coming year. when you ask people who endorse the idea that they are experiencing job-related stress, that goes up to 70%. this is in a context where we have shortages in many areas. we do not have enough workers in many areas. the importance of employers maintaining and keeping their staff is actually even more important right now. in addition to the impact that work-related stress has on the workers and their physical health and mental health. host: in addition to the covid concerns, when we talk about

stress in the workplace, what are the things we are looking at? guest: i'm sorry. host: what are the other issues, other than covid, in terms of creating stress in the workforce, and what are the things people tell you create stress in their work environment? guest: very interesting. you can imagine some of the things. they talk about salary, long hours, they talk about the lack of opportunity for growth and development. advancement in their careers. they talk about things like the lack of being able to participate in decision-making. there are a variety of things that range from the policies of the organization, with regard to salary, and those types of things, but it is also the work environment and the decision of how people manage in those environments. host: when you talk about stress

in the workforce, in terms of the people, the groups that you survey. how different is it among different demographics? what are the stress levels and where they fall? guest: with the general population, as i mentioned, 40% say they plan to leave their job in the next year. when it comes to hispanics, african-americans, members of the lgbtq community, people with disabilities, that number is higher -- 60% plan to look for another job or change jobs over the next year. it is something we talked about often -- employers cannot look at their workforce as a monolith. they have to understand what is going on within the workforce. understand how they need to adjust their approach towards these various groups.

one of the groups i think is really important to look at this issue specifically in the survey, and with the stress in america survey, one of the things we found is that parents of young children, school-age children, are expressing extreme amounts of stress right now. we know that that particular group really needs to -- we really need to be aware of that and to adjust and make sure our policy is more accommodating for that particular group of people. host: we fenced -- spent the first hour talking about the jobs numbers and how people felt about the economy and how there were fewer job created that -- then many economists anticipated. that is raw data. is there any way to quantify what you are reporting? how people are feeling about returning to work or making arrangements to return to work -- can you quantify that with

the actual jobs report? guest: we are seeing people who are sensitive about going back to work. there are people who are concerned about covid. there are people who are concerned about what the new work environment will be like. for many people, one of the things that are survey -- our survey, internally and other surveys have shown, workers who have been able to work from home really like that flexibility. to the point where, some people are even willing to leave their jobs and quit their jobs if they don't continue to have some ability and flex ability to work from home. there are number of factors at play here, in terms of what might be creating hesitancy for people to return back to work, and it really points out why it is so important to do these

kinds of surveys to get a handle on what is happening with the workforce. host: our guest is the ceo of the american psychological association, with us this morning to talk about the new report on work and well-being. it was just released. what are your thoughts in particular with employment at the current moment? in particular, in particular at work. (202) 748-8000 is the number to call for eastern and central. mountain and pacific, (202) 748-8001. you can always senate tasks -- you can always send a text at (202) 748-8003. let's look at salaries. in the graphic, more than half say low salaries impact stress levels at work.

comparing this year to 2019 in your last survey, in terms of stress levels, 50 per six -- 56% said there was a significant impact versus 49% in 2019. too heavy of a workload, 50% said it was a factor versus warty 4% between 19. an unrealistic job expectations, 48% versus 43% in 2019. would you ascribe all of this to -- what would you ascribe all of this to? host: we know that covid has created a lot more stress in the population. that is just across the population in general. our survey showing that stress is now translating into stress in the workplace. there is an increased sensitivity to some of these issues.

these issues may have been stressful before, but in this environment, our survey showing that they are even more stressful for people. host: it seems that on some levels, people find themselves with a bit more bargaining chip and flex ability and determine, for sample, where they were, and when they were rated -- where they work because of remote workability. guest: we have shortages in so many different industries. employees to have a little bit more leverage they would've had in the past. employers should not look at it through that lens. they have to look at it through the lens of productivity and what is in the best interest of their organization. we do a program called psychologically healthy work workplaces awards each year, and we look at employers who support and maintain the mental health

and well-being of their employees. the research says that employees who do those kinds of things have increased productivity, less attrition from people leaving the job, more satisfaction in the job, and so there are a lot of really important reasons for employers to pay attention to these kinds of issues -- pay attention to the mental health of their employees. ultimately, it helps them with their bottom line. host: it was surprising to me how many folks referenced mental health as we talked about the topic. one woman said people are sick. americans are sick physically. another said that there are not enough mental health resources for american workers. what are your thoughts? guest: i think the survey or the pandemic, if there is a silver

lining to the pandemic, it is that americans are generally much more aware of and appreciative of the importance of mental health. i was really heartened by what we are seeing from ceo's. i cannot tell you how many different business organizations, organizations that have ceo's in them, who have been reaching out to us and talking and wanting us to talk about what is psychological research. how organizations can better address the health of their workforce. ceos are more tuned in on this issue. they understand that if they do not have a good plan around these issues, it will ultimately impact their bottom lines in the private sector, and for those in the public sector, in the nonprofit world, they understand that it is going to impact their

ability to achieve their mission . i think there is a silver lining in that people are more aware of this, and i think we need to really think about it in two ways. one, the standpoint of the individual. the other is the standpoint of the organization. host: go ahead and finish your thought, i'm sorry. guest: from the individual standpoint, there are things we can do to take better care of our mental health. we also know that there are things that employers and leaders in organizations can do to create environments and organizations that are going to be more psychologically healthy, and to support people. we have to think about that in both of those ways and have strategies, both for the individual and the organization. host: you are touching about what i was going to ask. is there any way to gauge the

collective mental health of an organization? organizations have gone through great deals of stress and change in 2021 and adaptation. guest: a lot of the survey get at that, and it is important for employers to have their own survey to look at how their workforce is designed. we survey our workforce fairly regularly on a variety of things. we are doing that much more during the pandemic areas we are asking questions about preferences around how people can work, the roof -- flex ability people want. we are constantly trying to get at and measure the temperature of the workforce. is the only way to make good management decisions as you are trying to help your organization. host: let us hear from our listeners and viewers. michael, orlando, florida.

you are on. caller: hello, mr. evans. i have to tell you, your organization has caused a lot of trouble in broward county,. our teachers have been on the national news who have been supportive against our governor who is bad max and maxine -- masks and vaccine mandates. we have capped schools open at rates that are three or four times they should be. the way you are able to help, because the reason they got into this, this is why say it is your fault, is that they are educated about how stress affects the mind. there educated by dr. bloom who taught how organizations are affected by the people working within them when they are stressed.

the california surgeon general focused on this, you are just disgusting how the organization would talk more about [indiscernible] what we are discovering is that although it changes the mind, we are not aware how success can change and we view the world. what is happening, and this my question, can you offer us some support because what we are dealing with, eugenic bias, and as you are aware, in the 1860's, there was a wrong view of evolution, and the way evolution worked was through competition. the first libertarian, and this is where psychology ties together, libertarians were racist and looking to justify

their racist motivations of evolution in science. host: michael, there is a lot there. would you like to respond, dr. evans? guest: i'm not sure what the question is. what i would say is that i know some of the people you mentioned. what i would say is our position around none of the issues he raised were pretty consistent. it was based on what we know from research, and there is a lot of stress related to many of the issues he mentioned. mask mandates, those kinds of things. our position is that we should follow the science on these issues. i saw in congress a week or so ago, and there was a debate

about whether we should bring our children back to school or should we emphasize the health and safety and keep them out. that is not a debate. the issue is that there is a strong believe that children can come back to school and need to come back to school, but we need to be able to do that safely. those two things are not music -- mutually exclusive. we need to follow the science. science says it is in our children's as interest to be in school, but we need to follow the science around how we do it in a safe manner. host: california, good morning. caller: i would like to know what you think about if trump were to have mandated the masks when he found out that the pandemic had occurred, if he was mandating the masks for children in the schools, at least, just think where we would be right now.

i want to give trump all of his credit, and that is the reason why we have the pandemic already. this country was sick mentally and emotionally, financially rippled because jobs have been sucked out of the countries in the 70's and 80's. pharmaceutical companies push drugs on the population. trump is the call of -- because of all of this. all of these trump worshipers know that trump had no business meeting the president north korea. he went right over to china. host: let me ask you a bout your report, in terms of the opportunities employees feel . the lack of growth and development opportunities impact stress at work. that is a figure that has grown

since 2019. it reflects the uncertain teen -- uncertainty that employees feel. guest: the lack of opportunities is one of the things -- there is elevated levels of stress that people are experiencing. they are more sensitive to some of these issues, which, quite friendly, have been long-standing issues for some people. employees don't feel they have input into the decision-making that relates -- it causes an exact surveys -- exacerbates stress. we are seeing it exacerbated in an environment where people are having elevated stress across the population. host: tony, waterbury, connecticut. good morning. caller: good morning. between the jobs reports yesterday and everything going

on, i am in the corporate world. both my wife and i are. we have been there for 20 years. insurance companies -- connecticut is the insurance capital of the country. the statistics that you showed at the beginning, that is nothing new. we have been having those conversations for the last 20 years. that is how i got hired 20 years ago. we are talking psychology. there are so many highs and lows. last year, might gas was cheaper. my food was cheaper. there was a hundred $75 a month the cost -- it cost? now, i am going to get at child tax credit. i have four kids and my wife works at home. i get $1400 a month. that is a great thing. thank you. host: you found in your survey that employees you surveyed

reported being -- any support from the government played into the stress at all? guest: we did not ask about the government as much as we were really looking at the policies of the employer. there are several areas where employers can help create and support their employees. one is paying attention to employee involvement and encouraging and looking at ways to engage their employees. we know that employers who look at and pay attention to issues like the worklife balance and worklife integration, and during the pandemic we saw how important that was, having the

flex ability to manage your job and also your own personal life. we saw the importance of having the opportunity for employee growth in developing. it was important to pay attention to the things that they could do to help their employees grow. for example, in our organization, we have a number of trainings. we offer them to all of our staff, not just our management staff. it is a growth opportunity. those individuals who go through the training are going to be better position to take on leadership positions later on. there are two other areas that we see as being really important. employers paying attention to health and safety issues. during the pandemic, that is been extremely important. for employers not only take measures to protect our staff, particularly if they are working in person, but to talk about the

philosophy around that, and to articulate how important it is from a management standpoint. one of the final areas it is important and related to these kinds of environments is employers who focus on recognizing their employees and acknowledging them when they do the job. host: reading the life section in the wall street journal was this article by adam grant who was an occupational psychologist , and the headline, the real meaning of freedom at work. work is just one part of a generation that is redefined how and why we do our jobs. he writes that the debate about whether work should be in person, remote, or hybrid is too narrow. people want the freedom to decide where they were, but they want the freedom to decide who they work with. what they work on. when they work. we'll flex ability is having --

real flexibility is having autonomy and priorities. what you think of that, dr. evans? guest: data similar to the research in our surveys. people want the ability to choose. that is a human characteristic that we want the ability to choose to have flexibility in our lives. more we can build and that flex ability, the better. that is what we call the covid work environment. the reality is that we are not going to go back. we don't use the terminology that we want to go back to the workplace or our offices. what we talk about is transitioning to the post-covid work environment. by that, we mean that the workplace is going to be very different. we are trying to be very intentional about going forward

with things we have learned through the pandemic that are employees of said or are really important to them and that they value. at the top of the list is having the flexibility. having that looks ability to choose how they work -- flex ability to has how they -- choose how they work. the work environment is going to be important for ceos and others. how do we change the physical space to work in the ways that people want to work post-covid? that is what we are struggling with as an organization, trying to figure that out. there are other organizations that are looking at research in this area. we are going to be learning over the next several years how to do that. how to build that possibility for our workforce. host: how big is your group? guest: our workforce is about

560 people. are they basing the nation's capital? pre-covid, we were all at the washington dmv area. post-covid, we will all be more distributed around the country as we are really looking at how we can benefit from this ability to work efficiently virtually? host: consequences, new mexico. go ahead. caller: thank you for c-span. they say money buys everything. i am worried about caretaker burnout. we need socioeconomic relief, specifically school owned payoffs. that would help relieve for the

caretakers and also for the essential workers. thank you. guest: that is a really important point. one of the things that is driving people wanting this kind of flexibility are their responses. their caretaking response abilities. it is really the people who are sort of middle age to have either children or people who are younger, and/or in some instances, also have responsibilities for older adults. people really want that flexibility in the work environment so they can manage on both their professional response village but also there caregiving responsibilities as well. host: next up is thomas,

humble, texas. caller: the exxon pipeline has nothing to do with gas prices. we don't even use that type of oil here in america. it is amazing, we have 2.2 million people behind bars and you are talking about stressful. what i would like to say is that when you have an extra $1500 in the bank, any type of relief naturally lowers stress levels. biden is trying to do that. if he could just pass these bills, i am pretty sure we could get back to where we were. one more thing, school shootings. how do you think kids stress out about that? we have had two in texas already. host: arthur evans? guest: it was kind of hard for me to hear the question, but i

think there were some comments about maybe some of the policies. what i will say is that we know that when people -- and our surveys show this, health and safety is very important. it to the degree that people have the ability to take care of their family, they have an adequate job, adequate salary and income, that those kinds of things are very much related to people's overall well-being. policies that help folks be in that position are going to be policies that actually help people to be healthier from a psychological standpoint. and a physical standpoint because we know that when people are experiencing stress, it not only affects their mental health, but it also affects our physical health as well. host: i want to see if you can tie this report in with what we are talking about. rates of depression and anxiety

climbed across the globe in 2020. climbing globally by more than 25% in 2020 and devastating ripple effect from the cover 19 pandemic that has particularly affected women and young people according to a new study published. >> the research around what is happening to the population because of covid has been pretty consistent. throughout the pandemic and around the world. what that research shows is that generally, we have seen a three to four fold increase in the level of people experiencing symptoms of depression and anxiety. when people are asked questions like are you having trouble sleeping, eating, do you feel anxious, those kinds of questions, when people are asked, we are seeing rates three to four times what they were pre-covid.

we also are seeing that there are different groups that are more impacted. i mentioned parents of young children. if you are a parent of a on child, you know that kids experience a lot of stress trying to work and take care of your kids as many of them were at home with us during the first part of the pandemic. we also have seen that younger people are experiencing the highest levels of stress. if you look at gen z, that is the age group around 24, under 24 to late adolescence, that is the group experiencing the highest levels of stress when we look at over the lifespan. it turns out interesting, there is almost a direct relationship that the group that experienced the highest level or that gen z going up to lower levels of stress for people who are seniors, this is pretty

consistent. we no longer are wondering what the impact will be on all of us and on the population. we pretty much demonstrated that. it has been pretty consistent over the port course of the pandemic -- over the course of the pandemic and studies on across the world, we are finding pretty much the same kinds of things. host: let's hear from wanda in chico, california. caller: talking about stress, i think the vaccine is causing a lot of people fear because they don't trust the mrna technology which is brand-new. the side effects that might come even five years from now from the vaccine. there is a new vaccine called novavax that does not use the mrna technology. i think people are going to go for that one. it is 90% effective, so i think

more people will get that vaccine because they are not afraid of it. it is more like a flu shot. also, there is no such thing as a stress free life. if you are that delicate, maybe you should not have been born. also, as far as i'm concerned, psychology is a junk science based more on peer pressure and opinions than hard facts. host: let's get a response from our guest. guest: obviously, i don't agree with the last part, but the point that the caller made about our ability to handle stress i think is actually a really good point. the reality is, we talk about stress for two reasons. i look at it from two perspectives. one is a it is important to know what is actually happening in the population. we have documented that.

others have documented that. we also know that over time, if we are under chronic stress, it shows up in both our mental help -- health and physical health. for example, right now, we know that about 60% of the population has had unwanted weight gain related to their stress related to the pandemic. about two thirds of people are having disturbances in their sleep. about 23% are reporting that they are using alcohol to manage their stress. we know that there is an impact. the other part of it and the color is right about this, we have the ability to put down facts and the ability to help manage our stress. one of the reasons we talk about this is that we know when people are experiencing stress over a long period of time, that it is

unmitigated, we know what happens, we have lots of research about what happens when that occurs. but there are things that we can do to mitigate that stress. there are things we can do to make sure that we stay healthy. for example, we know that one of the best predictors of people being healthier both physically and mentally is having a lot of social support. one of the things that has been disrupted during the pandemic is our social support. we have been asked to distance from one another so educating people about the importance of making those social connections and keeping those social connections has been something we have been really focused on in many mental health organizations have been very much focused on. we know that there are behaviors like diet and exercise and those kinds of things, nutrition can be very important to helping

manage and mitigate our stress. we talk about stress not to say that it is inevitable and that we are all going to get sick. we talk about it so that people understand what is happening. and they can take steps to mitigate the stress that we are feeling so that we don't have these problems. as i mentioned, we have already seen and documented that the pandemic has led to some negative health outcomes and some negative mental health outcomes. the issue for us is to educate ourselves about things we can do to mitigate that. host: the question for you from greg in texas says what about employers who offer lots of mental health support and services but whose managers and culture frowns on employees taking advantage of these surface -- services and suffer punishment or being passed over? guest: that is a really good question.

the way employers behave around these issues actually turns out to be really important. employers who encourage their staff to take time off, for example, encourage their employees to take a break and encourage their employees to do things to manage their own health, our employers who are actually going to or who are much more effective as employers. those are related to better organizational outcomes. it is really critical for leaders within organizations to set a tone about the importance of taking care of one's health, physical and mental. in fact, we just gave our staff and mental health day. a lot of organizations around the country are doing this, particularly some of the

high-tech organizations because what they're recognizing is that if your workforce is working at a really high level over a long period of time, you start to get burnout, you start to get people who are absent from work. or present-ism where people are at work but not functioning well. i think there is a greater recognition by ceos and managers that if we can set a tone where people understand that we care about their health, their safety, their well-being, that we are reinforcing that not only does it help the employees, but it also helps the organization to be much more effective and efficient. host: calls. melissa in woodbridge, virginia. caller: good morning to you both. thank you so much for putting a light on this topic. i'm one of those statistic people that work two jobs. i'm on my way to my second job.

i spent 20 years taking care of my mother and i am grateful for the care that i've gotten through medicare and medicaid. those people were amazing and sometimes not appreciated for the work they do. the mental cost of me doing this for 20 something years is terrible. we completely created a structure that we have to commute to work every day. i live in northern virginia. it is an hour to go 20 miles. just to get around between jobs. i see the problems in the health care for ladies that have taken care of my mom while i'm at work, they are stressed out. professionals are stressed out and then you are stressed out and it is just like this revolving door. i'm so grateful that you guys are putting a light onto this and giving the working poor a

voice. host: and you say you're on your way to your second job right now? caller: yes, i work for the airline industry and my job has been amazing. have helped us out a lot during the pandemic i was grateful i had another job when they furloughed us here in the cap people employed. it is tough out here. you have got to think about what is our time worth? our value and time worth to the middle class and the rich? host: thanks for your call this morning. guest: i would just say good luck. take care of yourself. when you're working two jobs, that can wear on you. i think one of the things we have seen in the pandemic is that the stress that people are experiencing is really insidious. we are not really aware of it. sometimes people feel guilty for even talking about it. the reality is that it is

showing up in our health status. i would just say, just be aware of your own health, do the things that you need to do to take care of your own health because you don't want that kind of pressure you are under when you're trying to work two jobs, take care of your family, to actually impact your health. host: the graphic tells me the tail of your headline. upper-level employees more likely to be engaged in fully satisfied. the upper-level employees have far lower numbers in negative feelings. why do you think that is? guest: upper-level employees have more control. the issue of control is important for all of us. those of us who are fortunate enough to be in positions where we do have more control, we do

have more flexibility, generally are going to do better. the survey showed that. the survey also showed that for people who are in upper management, that they have less physical fatigue, less wariness. the cognitive woes we have in doing our job. people in upper management have less emotional exhaustion. that is not surprising given how we are billed as people. the more control that we have over our lives, the less impact these kinds of stresses can have on us. host: let's hear from ruth in oxnard, california. caller: good morning. i would like to follow up on questions and comment that i heard this morning from callers. one of them pertained -- it has

to do with stress and stress mitigation and struggling against attempts to mitigate and attempts to help people stay healthy. for example, a caller -- one caller said, if you are so downcast, maybe you should never have been born. we know that this pandemic overall has affected people differentially with regard to race, ethnicity, socioeconomic status. another color -- collar -- caller said something about libertarianism and eugenics and

how -- i've been wondering, why are these governors going completely nuts and saying you cannot have amassed mandate even if people want to? i really think that is an interesting question and i wonder if you can comment especially on the eugenics issue. host: arthur evans, if you care to reply on that or any final thoughts on our conversation this morning. guest: i'm not sure i really understood what the caller was saying around the whole eugenics conversation or question. what i would say is that i think that we are in this period where it is a 100 year event. this is unprecedented. i think that we need to understand the impact it is having on us, but also understand that we are not just passive participants in this, that there are things we can

actively do. i mention social support and social connection. diet and exercise as important things to do. there are also other things we can do and i think the message to employers is that you really have to think about both the services that are available and making sure your employees have access to mental health services when they need them, that you have vips or employee assistance programs particularly for larger companies so employees can get quick access, but there are things employers can do to create environments that are going to be more psychologically healthy. there's a whole area of psychology or organizational psychology. these are psychologists who are not clinicians, not trained to do psychotherapy. what they are trained to do is to help organizations optimize

their workforce and to optimize their performance. that area of our field has really been focused on what are the characteristics of a good psychologically heavy work environment and what are the things that managers can do to create that? i would encourage people to go to our website. look at the report, but also look at some of the things that managers can do to create that kind of work environment. finally, i would just say that i hope that people take care of themselves. as one caller said earlier, we can bounce back, but we also have to be intentional about doing things to help us bounce back. host: dr. arthur evans heads the american psychological association. thank you so much for being with us this morning. guest: thank you, appreciate being here. host: ahead, we will open up our

phone lines to hear from you on our open forum on issues we have been talking about today. we will have an update on the texas abortion law. one line for republicans, one for democrats and one for independents and all others. we will be right back. ♪ >> next week on the c-span networks, the senate will be out after passing an agreement that would lift the debt ceiling through early december. the house will meet on tuesday to vote on the measure. the u.s. supreme court will hear oral argument in several cases throughout the week. among the cases you can listen to, kentucky's attorney general argues before the court that his office should be able to seek to uphold a kentucky ban on an abortion procedure that was struck down by previous federal

courts. we will also have live coverage tuesday at 10:00 eastern on c-span and c-span radio. on wednesday, live on c-span.org in the new c-span now app, the supreme court will hear a case seeking to reinstate the death sentence for the boston marinol -- marathon bomber that a previous court had vacated. the house veterans affairs committee will hold a virtual hearing on the recruitment of veterans by domestic extremist groups. witnesses include veterans who have been targeted for recruitment and academics who study the issue. watch next week on the c-span networks. or you can watch our full coverage on c-span now, our new video app. head on over to c-span.org for scheduling information or to stream video live or on-demand anytime. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. >> "washington journal" continues.

host: it is our open forum here. you can talk about public policy issues and politics we have been talking about so far or issues you are reading about. and that they'd texas abortion law. -- here is an update on the texas abortion law. upper limit reinjection has stopped enforcement of the nation's most restrictive abortion law. a three-judge panel of the conservative appeals court in a paragraph ruling that gave no reason for its ruling, agreed with the attorney general's emergency motion to halt the preliminary injunction that have been issued wednesday night at the u.s. district judge. they gave the justice department, the federal justice department, which sued the state over the law, until 5:00 p.m. tuesday to respond. a couple of follow on comments from our conversation with dr. arthur evans -- arthur evans.

this one says it is so much different than our parenting. our parents stressed self-sufficiency. our parents did not fend off the consequences of our mistakes use them as learning opportunities, resiliency's and elements of good mental health. another says, when i started working in the 1970's, we had labor unions. as long as i did a good job, i had a good job. after reagan broke the backs of the unions, i went through constant downsizing and long periods of unemployment and insane amounts of stress. one line for democrats, one for republicans and one for independents and all others. in georgia, james, you are first up. caller: i watch a lot of -- host: mute your volume and then go ahead.

it is feeding back on you. caller: yes. i would like to comment on the news media, which i watch republican and democrat news media. the question i have, the issue i have with the news media, they is not truthful. especially the republicans like fox news. they will say something and blame everything on joe biden. he is the reason why this happened and this is happening and all of that right there. joe biden is not the cause of that. prices raised and all that. he has not even raised the taxes yet. prices are going up because of this pandemic. and a whole lot of these businesses are capitalizing on the pandemic and getting rich.

it is a getting rich scheme. host: republican line, lindenhurst, new jersey. nancy, good morning. mute your volume and go ahead with your comments. caller: i have been to the stores and the shelves have been empty. i wanted to know, with all of the boats sitting in the water, wire than on sending in the national guard to supplies -- to bring supplies? host: your grocery stores, the shows are empty, is that what you are saying? caller: correct. a lot of products are not available and i understand all of these boats are sitting in the water waiting to be unloaded. wire than on sending in the national guard to take care of this problem? host: next up is birmingham, alabama. gilbert. caller: thanks for taking my call. as an independent, i feel so

perplexed this morning that the american public cannot see this economy has been suffering for the last 20 years. i would like to recommend that c-span would get lou dobbs on your show because he mentioned about all of this outsourcing. if you travel the backroads of america, you can see all of the factories and industries closed down when china became a part of the wto. people want to say it is about the democrats or republicans. joe biden and the rest of them that have been up there for the last 20 or 25 years are all a part of what is happening today. the only thing is that this coronavirus thing has exposed it all. before the coronavirus, all of the industries had outsourced all of the companies and manufacturers in china and nobody had said a word. host: news out of china this morning. here is the reporting of the bbc.

china-taiwan tensions. xi jinping says reification must be fulfilled. unification must be achieved peacefully but warns the chinese people had a glorious tradition of approach -- disproving separatism. taiwan considered itself a sovereign state while china considered it a separated state. the intervention comes after china set a record number of military jets into taiwan's air defense in recent days. some analysts say the flights could be seen as a warning to taiwan's president ahead of the islands national day on sunday. on the republican line, it is vincent in tulsa, oklahoma. caller: hello. i'm going to give president biden the not the next election because i don't want to see

trump to be impeached again. i would like to see somebody else when like somebody in florida or texas. but if he does not win, i'm going to give biden the nod. host: president trump is speaking today in iowa. this is the wall street journal, iowa tests support for trump. i will republican activists express varied views when asked how much support president trumbull receive in the state. "my thought is that he has some -- my preference is that donald trump has a role in the direction of our country and party and some influence." that rally in des moines is coming up this evening. it will have -- we will have

live coverage on c-span. tricia is in ohio. go ahead. caller: good morning. i wanted to speak with the speaker that just was on, but i did not get in. i'm a medical clinical social worker and i wanted to speak on the chronic illnesses of my patients who don't have enough insurance to treat them. i see that a lot of the therapists that are out there are just new grads and they don't have the experience to take care of my patients chronic illnesses. with all of the stress in the world, especially in the united states, with what is going on with misinformation to mandate or not to mandate, families, children, my own grandchildren, i see a lot of anxiety with what they see and hear and people

fighting at each other. we have the news on. i just think that something needs to be done, the republicans and democrats need to come together because this world has just been about to jump off any limb or something. there is just a a lot of pressure on families today. thank you. host: one, from pennsylvania, unseen problems, low income workers who cannot work elsewhere rn replaced because of home care. another problem hours bang. -- hours. it seems to me that abortion is a problem the government should stay out of. there are arguments on both sides. tricia is on the independent line. caller: good morning.

i just wanted to make a remark regarding president biden and the vaccines for what seemed to be the majority of essential workers who have showed up every day over the last almost two years of this situation. and now they are being threatened with the loss of their jobs if they won't get the vaccine. we have no way of knowing whether these people have a natural immunity, whether they had non-symptomatic and are perfectly good to go but they have worked for the year and a half putting in extra time, long hours, our policeman, fireman, however airline workers are being threatened with the

academy and unemployment. it makes no sense to me. host: james is next in lancaster , virginia, republican line. caller: three brief comments, one on yellen's proposal. that is nothing but going after the underground economy. that's what that is. they recouped about $482 billion by enforcing that. i don't understand -- i'm an essential worker. i've been driving a truck for 20 years. we've been out doing this and we work 70 hours a week, week in, week out, year after year. my last cover meant -- comment, can the cowboys please beat the giants this weekend? host: lori in dickinson,

maryland. caller: hello and thanks for taking my call. i am a farmer in dickerson, maryland, small-scale sustainable farmer and i know we've been talking about the public and dimmick -- epidemic, but i want to address food shortages. the one thing that is interesting as we kind of have a double whammy in agriculture where it is not just the pandemic affecting especially small growers, but large farmers as well. it is also the climate change and drought out west will cause food shortages next year. i've been on some of the climate vulnerability calls by the agricultural service, and is also the new dump and dry rain patterns that are affecting agriculture. we are really having to shift to produce the food.

i would like to say that i am really proud of what biden has been doing with the usda to support small growers. i think he's been trying to do, to have new grants. they just announced an awesome new insurance for small growers and to try to keep small growers and medium-sized and large growers in business as well. they need to pick up the pace. host: what do you raise on your small farm, and what are the markets -- where are the markets for those products? caller: the markets are frankly everywhere. i just raise vegetables, i focus on french -- fresh vegetables like lettuce, tomato, spinach, squash, etc., organic methods. markets are everywhere. it is frankly just the weather patterns are seriously a challenge and will continue to

get worse and worse every year. every grower is being affected by this in some way or another. it is rainfall patterns, drought out west. it is really changing. the demand is doing nothing but increasing. host: fox news reporting on the latest jobs report, more proof of americans falling behind under biden and reckless spending would be catastrophic. they say it offers precious evidence that americans are falling hind and meager job collection -- it also reveals average wages grew slower than inflation as measured by the consumer price index, meaning americans' real wages are falling. biden, they write, is decreasing the living standards of normal americans. in brooklyn, nancy on the republican, independent line, go

ahead. you are on the air. ok. one more time. nancy? donald in kenna soto, new york, on the democrats line. caller: my name is don and i graduated from su and e cff -- i am so grateful that president biden has been with us for 10 months or so now, and i know that there are a lot of strong feelings, bipartisan all that. we were, for four years, in a situation where we has -- we had a president who wanted to set up a regime of having his son take over after he had continued for two or three terms and it was

almost a very scary thing, almost a dictatorship being set up. it is a beautiful thing that we have a president who is stressing education, stressing famine relief, working internationally to make amends, and i wanted to say, i live out on a lake -- i live between utica and syracuse. in my little area that i live in, i wanted to say, i hope president biden can continue to work with the environment, to protect the creatures of the earth and the environment. what i wanted to say was, out in syracuse, new york, there is a place called valkyrie, the outline, and lookers, the adult world, and there a lot of sexual exploitation going on. a lot of minors and ladies who

are homeless are recruited into " exotic performances." host: "u.s.-taliban to hold first talks since withdrawal. u.s. representatives are to hold talks saturday and sunday about containing extremist groups in afghanistan and easing the evacuation of foreign citizens and afghans from the country. both sides said it is the first such meeting since forces withdrew in late august, ending a 20 year military presence. the taliban's rise to power in the nation. the talks will take place in doha, the capital of qatar. ritchie in vero beach, florida, on the independent line. morning.

caller: trying to think about the national burial in rome at the coliseum a couple of days ago. they invited the leader including -- i don't know his name. also invited the big chic -- sheik of egypt who is the head of an islamic institution which is created laws, islamic laws call it fatwa. he is the one saying this is good or bad, he is the one. he say, you know, he deliver a speech and he never pray for

peace. he attack the west. they talk about africa, the west and africa, the west using mining in africa. using the carbon for their interest. but he didn't pray for peace. he never prayed for peace, just attacking the west. host: gary, jacksonville, florida, open forum. caller: the hypocrisy of the republican party has no bounds. they are so worried to get liz cheney off the committee, yet somebody like matt gaetz who allegedly sits with an indictment that supposedly still has not been delivered, he is still allowed to be a committee member. it is a joke. why doesn't any republican have a backbone and say, matt gaetz should be removed from any --

involved in any panel until all this is cleared up? because this hypocrisy is overwhelming. host: we will hear from carolyn in atlanta on the independent line. caller: good morning. i'm not sure what the subject is about. i just woke up and decided to dial, and i got on, so that was a good thing. but i'm very concerned about abortion. because it seems to me it is being put on the woman, but we have these doctors that are actually doing the killing. if there were no doctors doing their procedures, then we might not have as many abortions. so we need to look at these doctors and i know women will go if they need to, if they want to use it as a birth control method, they will go to these

doctors -- can i still on? host: you are still on. do you think women primarily use abortion as a birth control method? caller: yes, some of them are. we have them -- my understanding, we have the morning-after pill. there are other things women can use. i just don't understand. nobody is going after the doctors saying, you are really responsible for the actual killing. host: just a few more minutes and our open forum, this is about a global tax, the headlines says countries retract to thwart tax avoidance. more than 140 countries agreed to the most sweeping overhaul of global tax rules in the century, a move that aims to curtail tax avoidance by multinational corporations and raise additional tax revenue of as much as 150 billion annually,

but the accord which is a decade in the making must be implemented by the signatories, path that is unlikely to be smooth. the reform sets out a global minimum corporate tax of 15%, targeted at preventing companies from exploiting low tax jurisdictions. u.s. treasury secretary janet yellen said the floor set by the global minimum tax was a victory for the u.s. and its ability to raise money from companies. she urged congress to move swiftly to enact the proposals it has been debating, which would pay for expanding child tax credits and environmental initiatives. robert is on the independent line, lynchburg, virginia. caller: my concern is about supplies coming into the united states from overseas. i think we all need to take a look at how shelves are running

dry in each store because we manufacture nothing in the united states now. diapers or band-aids and milk and stuff like that, everything is coming from overseas and you've got this bottleneck in the ocean. we just can't seem to get it together in the united states. one other thing is that we never had all these problems until trump was in office. host: peoria, illinois, up next on the democrats line, eddie. caller: i was looking at a old " wall street journal" program, but anyway, the corporations in the united states, i used to work for a corporation here, and when they started sending jobs out or sending jobs to nonunion states, i believe that's when we

got in trouble. my company that i work for and my understanding was that we had a pension plan, we had an insurance plan, and when they started diluting that part of the corporation, then the corporations got greedy. my insurance was paid to the company and i believe -- this is my thought and i could be wrong -- but i believe the corporation had taxed the duction's for having -- deductions for having our insurance and pension plan. now the pension plan has gone to the corporation i am with for a 401. don't have a pension, you have a 41. what happens if the 401(k) crashes and people are in the same predicament they are in when the stock market crashed back in the 1980's and then back

in 2008 i think it was. host: previously, had your pension been guaranteed? guaranteed benefit? caller: yes, it was guaranteed. i thought that was perfect. i don't know where the corporation and government came in to change that, but they changed that. i think that is the problem now. like i said, i talk about corporations getting a tax break for setting out a pension for insurance on their employees. now the corporations are, it is just greed. my company, and the stock is gone. if i still had the stock, i would have tripled the stock plan, but who's to say the stock will be there for the people on for a one instead of the pension? host: marvin in pasqua, new

york, independent line. caller: i'd like to find out what exactly about trump that people don't like. they just come up with adjectives. do they not like that he forced the nato allies to pay their fair share of the dues, financially handling nato? trump forced the members of the united nations to pay their fair share. the united states handling the cost of the united nations, do they not like that? he forced canada to allow the farmers in wisconsin to sell their products in canada, they do not like that. he protected the border wall. i'm all for immigration, but it should be legal. trump tried to control the border to have legal immigration and he was the one that instituted the abraham accords which created five of our states

to be peaceful in israel. he moved the embassy to jerusalem. five other presidents kept talking and it was just talking, never did it. trump did it. he wanted to get out of afghanistan but it was conditions based. he is one of the first presidents who wanted to get out of afghanistan, but make it conditions based and have civilians come out first. trump, one of three presidents who never collected a salary. the other presidents were washington, jfk, and trump. host: bruce in baltimore, maryland, republican line. caller: my goodness. that guy just all my thunder. he got it right out there and i am a trump supporter. let me tell you something, i should be a lot more liberal. i should be a democrat because i don't want to be independent because i don't want to be

publican or democrat or depressive -- i originally elected a democrat. i couldn't call that in. somebody might get a paper cut. every day, climate change, climate this, climate that. they are idiots. host: ron in marotta, pennsylvania. caller: i think something is going to happen on the vaccine front. there was something mentioned about mark coming up with a new treatment -- merck coming up with a new treatment for covid, which is supposed to be heavy on the immunity.

somebody tensioned, one of the cable shows mentioned that -- somebody mentioned, one of the cable shows mentioned that there might have been some question of why merck is coming out now. they are questioning how long they've had this ready to produce. in the meantime, they've had the emphasis on boosters, which isn't that has been initiated by pfizer. then dr. found the -- dr. fauci had to come out and say we are not first and we have to talk to the nah and fda who need to lead , not the vaccine manufacturers. since last year, it's all over the internet, a small company from california called immunity

bio, which is now trying to produce vaccine in south africa but it has been stymied by the fda and it is putting out its own vaccine. host: thanks for your call. more ahead on washington journal. we talk with leslie erdelack and jeff byers, here to talk about their podcast which covers a range of health issues, including paid sick leave impacting public health. that ahead. ♪ >> weekends bring you the best in american history and nonfiction books. on "the presidency come cope

during their terms, thomas jefferson, abraham lincoln -- richard nixon face not only political opponents but americans who hated them. a panel examines the reasons. on "lectures in history," three programs on women's causes. wentworth -- teaches a class about the women's suffrage movement. she describes how women's voting rights activists used imagery to support their causes. pfizer -- professor heather cox richardson talks about the roles assumed by women in employment and politics, plus social work and nursing. she looks at the political organizations run by women, prohibition and women's suffrage. watch american history tv every weekend.

watch any time on c-span.org/history. ♪ >> get c-span on the go. watch the biggest political events live or on-demand anytime, anywhere, on our new mobile video app. c-span now, access top highlights, listen to c-span radio, and discover new podcasts for free. download c-span out today. -- c-span now today. >> you can be a part of the national conversation by participating in c-span's student video conversation, everything that matters. that'll and high school students are asked to create a document -- middle and high school students are asked to create a documentary how the federal government has affected their life. c-span video clips are easy to find and access at c-span.org.

c-span's studentcam competition awards $100,000 in total cash prizes with a shot of the grand prize of $5,000. entries must be received before january 20, 2022. visit our website at studentcam.org. >> "washington journal" continues. host: as we've been doing on a regular basis, spotlight on podcasts, looking at various podcasts and the issues they cover, focusing on health policy. our guests are jeff byers, senior marketing manager, and his colleague, leslie erdelack, the senior editor with health affairs. good morning. guest: good morning. host: what is health affairs? guest: health affairs is a

multidisciplinary peer-reviewed journal that publishes research and commentary on a lot of major health policy issues. the top policy journals for health care professionals and decision-makers in health care. health affairs is a nonpartisan group. the journal is pub ship -- published by roddick health, and nonprofit that operates global and humanitarian relief programs. we are happy to have readers in over 200 countries and our goal is to really bring together in one publication, a range of diverse view planes and perspectives from health-care researchers in the public and private sectors, and to help make people -- help people make sense of how policy -- health policy issues and challenges. for about 40 years, we've been publishing empirical research through meant -- monthly

journals and other comment through our blog, newsletters, and our podcast series that we are so excited about. host: the podcast you two do is called "this week." tell me how you decide what topics to cover. guest: health affairs this week, in general the goal is to shine a light on health policy that catches the eyes of editors from week to week. the general goal is to educate and entertain those i keeping them up-to-date with the news they need to know. when it comes to sticking topics, we kind of have an aggressive production schedule -- taking topics, we don't always -- picking topics, we don't always have an aggressive protecting scale. -- production scale. it depends on what is happening in d.c. and elsewhere. host: it sounds very unscripted

anyway, just basically a conversation between the two of you. how do you work that out? guest: we always say the show is about putting listeners at the center of health policies proverbial water cooler. these are short conversations, 15 minutes or less, and it is really fun. the editors get to weigh in on different issues and stories and health policies, and we've been doing the show for about a year. i think we've covered everything from drug pricing and telehealth to climate change and covid-19. and we just get an opportunity to really dissect and talk about interesting news and developments and what is gratifying as an editor is to have an opportunity to talk about the research we are

publishing, to elevate the work of the researchers who publish with us, and explain why it matters. host: sounds like an ongoing conversation about the latest research that you are basically, for lack of a better term, making into what the average joe like me can understand. guest: yeah, we try. guest: sorry. guest: it is so complicated and there is so much activity right now concerning the policymaking aspects of health care, that i think one of the goals with the podcast is to really bring our personal insight, blend those with solid, empirical facts to break down these complex and complicated issues. host: jeff byers, the last week or so we touched on the issue of paid sick leave. tell us about the conversation and research you are seeing, and the effect that it has on the u.s. economy. guest: i may want to punt to

leslie for the content, but one thing i want to say is health affairs this week is made by health policy professionals. we are also trying to create an on-ramp for people starting their careers to help understand the policy issues in a little bit more layman's terms, in language they can understand versus some kind -- sometimes jargon of the industry. host: do people write back to you and say, you helped me figure out this? or do they want to dive deeper for more information? what reaction are you getting? guest: i think -- leslie may be able to help me -- but leslie and our colleague jeff did a byline or recently -- byliner recently on the 343 drug pricing program and we got a response

saying, this was really well done. we are so excited you are sharing this. this was from another professional podcaster who only focuses on 343 d and it was gratifying. host: leslie erdelack, in terms of the question on paid sick leave, what is the research showing in the midst of covid? guest: i will just say that last month, we did an episode on paid sick leave right around labor day, so it felt like an opportune time to think about workforce health and safety, teachers going back to the classroom, employers deciding whether or not to bring that remote workers back to the office. one of the things that we know is that the pandemic has really underscored these gaps in paid sick leave. two thirds of low-wage workers in the u.s. don't have access to paid sick leave. these are our essential workers,

front-line workers who can't work remotely. the disparities emerging understated. i don't think this could be overstated, they are really important, and to spell it out, missing a shift or taking a day off work without a paycheck to recover from an illness, i think forces some really hard choices when you are talking about working americans, particularly those who work in restaurants and retail, in hospitality, they have to choose between sacrificing their health or potentially their paychecks. and so we do not have any federally legal requirements for paid sick leave here in the u.s., and as i said a lot of workers have been left behind, and they are a lot of disparities in terms of who has access to these benefits. on the podcast we talk about not

only the individual benefits of paid sick leave but the broader survival benefits as well. host: our guests are leslie erdelack and jeff byers, and the podcast they do together is called "this week "and it covers a lot of health topics, and we welcome your calls and comments at (202)748-8000, for those of you in the eastern and central time zones. (202)748-8001 is for mountain and pacific. jeff byers, who are you targeting this to, who are you trying to reach? guest 2: health policy officials, but that same time, we went to attract younger individuals who may be interested in health care or they are already interested in

it, just to get a better understanding of what actual professionals in the health policy space are talking about, and how they are talking about it. host: we will get comments and calls, about vaccine mandates, so it leslie erdelack, what is the latest research showing, or is it too soon to tell the effect of mandates on the economy and on people, the u.s. in particular? guest 1: so my background is in public health, and so those are the stories that i tend to gravitate towards. it is been important for me personally because even as the integrity of the public health system has been tested i covid-19, i think we are able to see more clearly about the role of public health workers, whether it is through things like vaccine distribution or ways to adjust food insecurity,

and i think i mentioned we have been doing this podcast for about a year. our first episode was called something like vaccines, are they on the horizon, and in the latest episode, it was about vaccine mandates. what i can say, from my vantage point as an editor and someone interested in the direction of health research, i think we will continue to see these issues around vaccine mandates examined, hopefully using more applied and better research. to kind of help improve our understanding around how these choices affect our health and health of those around us, so we welcome that. host: you mentioned the podcast started about a year ago, was it started because of covid?

was it the realization that this was really something missing in our arsenal of tools of getting our message out, the information out? guest 2: it was not started because of covid. i joined the organization with a mandate to create a podcast program, so we looked at more contemporary media versus traditional journals, and we started our first podcast was called a health odyssey, which is the editor in chief interviews leading researchers in the health policy space. that was october of 2021, and that is a little bit more formal , but no less insightful. then we saw the opportunity to show a little bit of personality , health policy researchers, people inside the beltway have feelings as well. they like to joke around, so the health affairs this week product

has a little more liberty and also shows that humanistic side. host: and the people you talk to are just comfortable being in that space in terms of being interviewed for a podcast as opposed to say a broadcast like this or other broadcasts with far greater reach? guest 2: i get to edit everyone else's flubs, but one of the fun things, sometimes i like to leave a little bit of that realness in, there may be a couple of mistakes i leave in because it shows that we are having fun. but it is edited. host: leslie, you mentioned the episode behind the pages, perinatal metal -- medical health issue. what was that? guest 1: this is really in my head and my heart and the

episode just came out yesterday. we wanted to do this show for a few different reasons, so first tomorrow is world mental health day, and second, this week in health affairs we also published a series of papers focused exclusively on. natal mental illness -- on pe rinatal mental illness. a lot of new moms experience this, but one in five postpartum or women have a diagnosed anxiety disorder, so this affects hundreds of thousands of families in the u.s. every year. over 60% of pregnancy related mental health deaths are by suicide. that is just devastating. it is one of those specifics that should stop you in your tracks and make you ask yourself, why is this happening

and what are we going to do about it? host: the podcast is called "this week," jeff byers is health care senior content manager and leslie edit direct -- ertl lack is a senior editor. this is bob from raleigh, north carolina. caller: good morning. i wonder how you feel about the fact that you can only measure a health care system bite results, and we are ranked 37th in the world and we cost twice as much as the one that is ranked first. we do lead the world in botched procedures, needless procedures and overprescribing. we cost twice as much as the one that is right first. how do you feel about that? guest 2: i think that is an interesting comment and i will say we -- our podcast focuses on

health policy and it sounds like what you are talking about is more of the health operations field, which we do not really touch on that much. host: this is eddie from massachusetts. caller: years ago i had to leave my job in new york because the taxes were going to the ruth -- roof. if municipal workers did not take their yearly leave, when they retired they could get a payment of as much as $100,000. that killed the town. and our health plan cost twice as much as, say, canada, they always say that nurses and doctors and hospitals some sort of bill of rights to keep it out of the courts. the courts are atrocious.

thank you. host: leslie, any comment? guest 1: i think your comment really highlights some of the challenges associated with these issues, but it occurred to me that maybe it would be good to talk a little bit more about paid family and medical leave and make those distinctions because it is really easy to conflate them come of it these are two very different policies, paid sick days allow workers to take time off for short-term illnesses without losing their paychecks, and paid family and medical leave allows longer leaves of absences. congress right now is negotiating a provision through the reconciliation bill which is still very fluid come and that would create a universal paid family and medical leave program so families in that bill would

get comprehensive paid leave coverage, but of course we do not yet have a sense of how that would play out. i think there's a big difference between establishing kind of a large federal program that would allow businesses to provide paid family leave and the more granular considerations that individual employers would have to take into account. host: i guess the question, how closely does your podcast track any of these deliberations on capitol hill, especially as they relate to health policy issues? guest 2: i would say our podcast focuses more on health policy versus health care politics, so the health care politics space is a little saturated, some great work from the hill and politico and other publications in capitol hill and the deceit

area, and we have not really touched on that much. we do track, we have been tracking covid quite frequently as well as the infrastructure bill. we do have these through lines that permeate throughout the show from time to time. host: this is donald in lancaster, texas. good morning. caller: good morning. host: donald, do us a favor and make sure to mute your value -- volume, because it feeds back on us. do that and then go ahead. caller: i was calling, i would like for you to kill the hva -- hiv across the nation out of the health environment, period. host: leslie, we will have you talk about the latest research. guest 1: we have to some extent,

but i have to say i'm not familiar that subject, and so i cannot speak with complete confidence for that question. but thank you for those comments. host: this is linda, from orange connecticut. caller: good morning. i was thinking of the prior guest, the gentleman that was talking about our overall mental health and how the healthy diets feed into that, and another person called, the farmer and she was talking about how her food supply and how it will be hard to have fresh vegetables because of climate change. i am curious, have you ever discussed if you could eliminate one thing from the american food processing process, because we do eat so many processed foods

because of the cost of fresh fruit and vegetables, but with the one thing you could eliminate be? it is so in our supply and it affects our diet and our health, and it is all tied in together good i was curious if you could discuss that and share it with us. host: i will broaden the question for the guests and say have you addressed the issue of until health in your episodes? guest 2: i believe we covered that a couple of times and recovered food insecurity, which i think maybe the caller was getting to p there is literature about food insecurity and how that affects health and well-being especially in through the pages of health affairs, which is fascinating. if there was a follow-up question, i would be happy to try to answer that. guest 1: we did an episode a few

weeks ago focusing on how the u.s. da calculates snap benefits which saw the biggest boost, a historic boost and they were increased for the first time in decades, so we know from the research that enhanced nutrition benefits really do help alleviate food insecurity. host: don, from washington, go ahead. caller: i just had a question, what do your guests think about medical marijuana in general, so i can get a full spectrum of what they believe as americans? host: there is another topic area, have you touched that at all? guest 2: we have not, but there are a lot of publications in that space which i would point

to that are cropping up all across the online news center. host: to delano from missouri. caller: as far as international, is this a world health situation or is this just for the u.s.? host: your podcast, is it it aimed for the u.s.? guest 2: mostly for the u.s. host: did you have another comment? caller: i thought the young lady said it was international, but i don't hear that good, so it is just for the u.s. host: primarily on u.s. health issues, correct? guest 2: that is correct. guest 1: we do however publish at the journal papers having to do with global health policy

issues periodically. host: thank you for the call. this is ron from sand, day -- san clemente, california. caller: a quick question for you , this pandemic has been going on for 18 months now, and what has not been covered by anyone anyone anywhere is how many different vaccines there are in the world. i do not understand that. how come we do not have an effective rate virtually for every single country, whether it is the vaccine they have in russia, china, wherever? might don't we have that in the comparative rates of effectiveness? host: it seems like that is the kind of issue where your podcast could almost be weekly about vaccines, they are so many items

in the news and reports about vaccines and new vaccine reductions over the past year or so. guest 2: that is something we try to balance quite a bit because we do not want to get burned out on all of the vaccine news and lose listeners on different topics because there is a lot that is happening in the health policy space, from food insecurity to housing insecurity, climate change. there is so much, so many issues, so we do not want to just stick to one topic all the time, to to try to get people drawn in. host: part of the conversation also includes the democrats proposal to be able to have medicare negotiate drug prices, cheaper drug prices. how much do you cover that issue? guest 2: quite a bit on the journal side.

we see a lot of health provisions in that reconciliation bill, things like childcare, universal pre-k, enhanced benefits for seniors in the medicaid program, medicare program. i think we are generally supportive of those sorts of things, but as the negotiations shake out, i think ultimately what that bill looks like in sort of the ripple effect, those are things that certainly are -- our leaders will have to answer to. guest 2: we do cover pharmaceuticals, pharmaceutical spending in the industry on the health odyssey podcast and we found that and the topic of health spending are some of the best-performing episodes. host: it must feel like this past 18 months that both the

demand for what you publish in health affairs and the work you are doing with this podcast is there is an appetite, need to know for health policy information. guest 1: i would agree with that. i was thinking about the episode that you referenced at the beginning of the program, the episode that we did on hospital specialty pharmacies. that was a little bit of a niche topic for me, although our coverage of the journal extends to farmer sickles issues around drug pricing. but in terms of need to know information, this was an episode where we talked more about the distinction between retail and specialty pharmacies and the trend we are seeing more and more, health systems are setting up their own health pharmacies. are these trends really motivated by profits for the

hospital, or did they enhance the patient experience? we leave it out there to the listeners, there is a bit of an argument on both sides, we put out the information. i don't think we ever settle the debates in 10 minutes, but it was informative. i learned a lot just by preparing for these episodes every week. host: the podcast is called "this week." our guests are leslie erdelack and jeff byers. to make sure i get this in, you can get this at the app store through google play in the usual places people get podcasts, right? guest 2: that is right. where ever you listen, is what we like to say. host: this is jennifer from quantico, virginia. caller: it is so exciting to hear that there is a place where we can go and get good

information just about health care. i am excited to see this. leslie mentioned about perinatal health and postpartum depression. this is near and dear to my heart. does your podcast address anything or if you do much about screening or like access, and is not something that we can research? are there impediments to that? guest 1: i am so glad you asked. the collection of papers that we released this week do speak to screening, and researchers were interviewing women to find out how these women perceived the quality of their depression screening, if they got it at

their regular prenatal checkup. so unfortunately what they found was that a lot of the women in this focus group saw the screening process as ineffective, and they had no idea what the providers listed as results and they had to get their own follow-up care and resources. we know this is consistent with other studies, and the one thing the women in the study also said was they were afraid to talk about their mental health because of the stigma around moms having depression. this was a racially diverse group, and black women said they were especially nervous about taking the screening because of their perception to the screening process. i think as we are talking about the barriers and some of the challenges around. natal -- perinatal treatment, we

need to think about the stigma around health treatment. host: this is david from south carolina. the guests hear discussions of significantly growing the uniform health service to bypass the third-party payments related to inefficiencies to bring primary care to those people in areas with little or no insurance? i think he is talking about whether the uniform -- has there been discussion about whether the cuneiform -- uniform health service has been mentioned as waste to infill in areas where primary care is not available to people with little or no insurance? guest 2: i don't know if we

covered that specifically, but on the health odyssey podcast we cover access and use quite a bit. there was in the role of private equity into how that affects access and use, a lot of episodes that i would point to, whether equality -- whether a hospital rating impacts quality of care and things of that nature. not knowing exactly what episode 2.2, but i would look at the archives are that. host: this is linda from king of prussia, pennsylvania. caller: good morning. i am a mental health provider, and i meet with about 35 individuals every week. my question has to do the federal government interacting with or creating policy with private insurance.

the wonderful thing happened in telehealth allowed people to get mental health treatment without being in the office which was key because there was a time we did not have covid vaccines. what do you think the future will look like, will there be a podcast, our world there be a main organization -- or will there be a main organization, any thoughts about the future? do think insurance companies are going to require in office face to face? of course there are advantages to each. guest 2: i have followed the telehealth utilization quite a bit and what is really interesting about what happened before the pandemic is that generally telehealth was not used a lot. i would point you to the fair health report, which looked at insurance claims, and i will

paraphrase the result but i think it was less than 1% for the pandemic were visits a chevy did to telehealth. and that did "explode" when people could not go to a physical location, but i think what is interesting, and what the future could look like, i am not going to predict the future, but i am watching and curious what -- as people start to go back into physical offices, is it going to be 25% of office visits or more like 2%? i think that i'd influence how some insurers look at payments in that space. again, not -- host: that sort of issue, the return to work, the mental health that we were talking about in the earlier segment,

the potential for topics for this week, your podcast, that seems limitless. how do you focused each week and boiled on what you are talking about? guest 1: i think it is a really an organic process from week to week. we think about what we are publishing at the journal and what is generating conversation on social media, and we think about what we are excited to talk about. host: jeff byers, you had a thought? guest 2: i just wanted to give leslie a chance to give her in point -- input. as a producer, i also think we try to be a little more organic, what people are excited about. so it is less about what is happening on twitter, less about what might be happening in

thought leadership spaces, more about what is exciting you, what knowledge are you excited to share with the audience? so that changes from week to week. host: what can you tell us about next week and the podcast? guest 2: that is a great question. that gives us a great opportunity to gives a shout out to all of the producers for next week. we will actually see when we get back to the office what will happen, but that might be in the pipeline. host: does it feel like you have to touch back on issues like covid and vaccine and mandates,

does it feel like you have to update things you may have talked about earlier? guest 2: definitely, especially kobe -- covid, which is a large story. so if we just did, as lizzie pointed out, we had vaccines, are they on the horizon in december of 2020, and if we just left that episode they are, i do not think we would be diligent in actually the mission of the podcast, just to educate and entertain our audience. we do have to come back to that sort of thing, especially when it is a story that large. we don't have to talk about that every episode, but we do go back to those. host: leslie, i will give you one last question, in terms of the next thing we are going to see, the beginning of vaccination for children in terms of content for the journal in terms of things to discuss on the podcast, what will you be looking for?

guest 1: i think there is a lot of opportunity. we have focused before on children's health, and it is absolutely i priority. at health affairs we talk a lot about health disparities, and in the past several months we have published work on disparities on telehealth use and i think that attention has really grown as well, so how that intersects with vaccines that are available for children, all children as they are recommended i think we will want to take a careful look at that. host: the podcast is called "this week it is produced by jeff byers, and we have also been joined by the senior editor, leslie erdelack. thank you for being with us this morning. that will do it for this

morning's program. we hope you are back to her morning at 7:00 eastern. have a great weekend. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2020] ♪ >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government, funded by these television companies and more including comcast. >> this is way more than a community center. we are partnering with a thousand centers to create why fight enabled missions to get the tools families need to be ready for anything. >>