veterans, access to mental health care and reducing the stigma of receiving care. watch this entire hearing tonight at 10:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. online it c-span.org or watch on c-span now, our new video app. >> c-spanshop.org c-span's online store. browse our latest collection of c-span products, apparel, books, home to core and accessories. there is something for every c-span fan and every purchase help support our nonprofit organization. -- nonprofit operation. joining us this morning is andrew ujifusa, the assistant editor at education week to talk about critical race theory. let me read the definition of critical race theory. a conceptual framework that considers the impact of historical laws and social structures on the present day

perpetuation of racial inequality. where did this originate from? guest: thanks for having me. this is a theory that comes out of higher education. it's been around for several decades. it is the brainchild of scholars like derek bell and kimberly crenshaw. it posits the idea that racism goes beyond just individual prejudices and individual beliefs and is embedded in american society and law and policy. one example people bring up when they talk about this issue is racist housing policies and racist lending policies from many decades ago. policies that are no longer enforced today in terms of being exclusively racist but have an impact on segregated neighborhoods, who can afford to buy a home and things like that. host: we are getting our

viewers' thoughts on it, questions and comments as well. this is how we are dividing the lines. parents, (202) 748-8000. educators, (202) 748-8001. independent -- all others, (202) 748-8002. text us at (202) 748-8003. include your first name, city and state. critical theory on the education level. take a look at the states. they have all banned teaching of the critical race theory. no state except idaho actually mentions the words critical race theory. legislation bands discussion, training and/or orientation that the u.s. is "inherently racist." nearly 20 states avenues duties -- have introduced similar legislation.

how did it go from higher education to this discussion we are having at school boards and with parents and at the lower levels of education? guest: i think the basic answer is some of this comes out of concerns about the black lives matter movement and the reactions to george floyd's murder last year. lawmakers became increasingly concerned about teachers showing a certain political bias in the classroom. i think some of this anxiety or backlash stems from the idea that critical race theory has become a catchall term for different things. not just in classrooms but at the school board and school administrative level where school officials are prioritizing student identities more than student learning. the idea they are pitting

students against each other and making some students feel ashamed about past actions they are not responsible for and other students should feel oppressed. they feel as though legislation or laws and regulations to combat that -- are needed to combat that. there is a lot of opposition to that critique. there are a fair number of people in the educational space who feel the backlash is a trojan horse. what this is really about is trying to push back against accurate and complex trails of history. it's about pushing back against being more inclusive in terms of student identities and taking their backgrounds into account when teaching certain lessons about history and social studies. they think this is just in large part a white backlash the cultural developments, a long

line of things like fights over sex education and teaching evolution that put schools at the center of america's cultural wars. host: education week that a survey of teachers. more than nine out of 10 teachers say they have never taught about critical race theory. is this getting taught? guest: well, as you mentioned, if you go by that survey the answer is no. this is not something that the vast majority of teachers engage with or talk to students about on a daily basis. i think that comes back to the idea that a fair number of people have been talking about this. this is not an actual, genuine development in classrooms. crt is being used to attack the books students read and what they are taught about america's history of race and racism. i think that, especially

recently, the argument has been made it is not so much about crt being taught but whether crt and related ideas are influencing curriculum and professional development in schools that are counterproductive -- in ways that are counterproductive. a big fight is focused on diversity, equity and inclusion. it is coming at the expense of actually teaching students what they should be learning in their academic progress. on a political level this is about whether critical race theory and related ideas are undermining fundamental american values or teaching students something other than what they should be learning about in american history and principles. that is a very bitter fight. something that is difficult to resolve. host: doris in clarksville,

tennessee. caller: good morning. host: you have to turned on your television. caller: i thought i had it muted. i do understand what he is saying. we have come into a political point where the truth is no longer believed in. we have never taught critical race theory in schools. for it to become an issue, when the backlash is people are saying they teach kids to feel bad while learning history. well, i think the indians feel bad when they are hearing history taught. i think black kids have felt bad when history was being taught. i think that this is just another way to have americans not talk to each other anymore and for everybody to take aside. this -- take a side

. this has empowered one side and denigrated one side again and it's a circle that goes on and on. every time black people expressed with the power, there is always a backlash. if you go back through history, it has happened numerous times. every time the majority starts to stand up, vote, understand their rights, the next thing is there is a complete and utter backlash from the other side to suppress it, instill fear in it, to maintain the status quo. host: andrew? guest: i alluded to some of those issues earlier. as i mentioned, some people bring up the idea that they are certain kids are made to feel shamed because of what they are being taught about american history and racism.

some people respond with, for decades, students of color have been made uncomfortable about the types of history they are taught. it does not include important perspectives on things like slavery and the legacy of slavery. you mentioned surveys we have done about this. we surveyed teachers about whether they believe systemic racism exists. roughly 60% of the survey -- of those surveyed believe racism exists. it is not just about individual prejudices. this is an issue teachers are finding difficult to to navigate -- to navigate in classrooms, especially in states where regulations come out of the vote. did made the situation more politicized for teachers in ways they are not used to.

some people would say this is not new. this is an ongoing culture war that puts american schools at the center of things. there are teachers in this debate that are new or different, particularly with respect to how it is being used politically. host: what groups are pushing back against critical race theory? what groups are pushing -- are on the other site of the debate? guest:caller: -- guest: that is a good question. and this goes back to the pushback on critical race theory and if it is organic or genuine. i would groups like the tea party, and other folks have sort of raise concerns about how critical race theory's adjacent ideas are influencing schools.

they have highlighted ideas that they think our projection and concepts privilege. on the other side, you have the naacp saying this is just a moral panic. it is not real. they say that people who are sort of the most fervent in terms of their backlash is not much different to the people who opposed the integration of schools many decades ago in the south. i think that the groups that are involved in this stepping up their efforts on both side, especially since the issue really came forward and the virginia's governor's race. and political campaigns with the

midterms coming up. i think those groups and others will get more involved in discussions. host: leo in georgia. leo, do you teach? caller: yes, ma'am. i am a history teacher. i took today off. host: what are your thoughts on this? caller: first, thank you. i love c-span. i use your material in my classroom all the time. i wanted to say a comment on critical race theory. the gentleman is correct. it is not a specific content. critical race theory is not specific content, per se, but it is a view of which to -- blends of which to view society. if you are a native american, your perception of the united states government is going to be different from eight white anglo-saxon male -- a white anglo-saxon male.

if you are in a u.s. history class, are you not going to talk about the indian movement? are you knocking a talk about how the chinese were exploited out west -- are you not going to talk about how the chinese were exploited out west? etc. the reason there is such a disagreement on this topic is because there are two america's. you know, lyndon johnson in the 1960's, he commissioned a study, where they found that race was the flashpoint for a lot of the issues that we were having in the united states. bill clinton in the 1990's revisited the commission and found out we were just as segregated. and two years ago, the fbi just came out with a study that said, you know, the greatest threat to the united states is not drugs. it is not muslim extremism, but

it is a white supremacy. when you have white supremacy for so long being a push factor, critical race theory is a way to analyze that. thank you. host: go ahead, andrew. guest: sure. maybe an example of what the caller was talking about would be helpful here. maybe an example that is related. oklahoma, as i think you mentioned, greta, has passed sort of one of these laws restricting sexism and racism on how they classify students and talk about students, and one of the things that some teachers brought up is, well, you know, the state requires us to teach, among other things, about the tulsa race massacre, which occurred 100 years ago. brutal, horrific instances of

racial violence. the teachers are wondering, how do we talk about that without talking about historical and structural racism that fit into that terrible event -- that fed into that terrible event? the governor of oklahoma, kevin stitt, said it is possible to teach about things like the tulsa race massacre without making white students, for example, feel shame or guilt about that event, which they were not present for and were not involved in. currently, in oklahoma, there is a lawsuit that has been filed, seeking to overturn this new law in the state on the grounds that it infringes on the first amendment rights of teachers, as well as students, to talk about these issues in a sort of free and constructive way. i think that gets into a different set of legal issues about students and teachers, especially with free speech

rights, but, you know, that is one case to watch closely in this debate. i suspect it will not be the last, as well. host: catherine in minnesota. good morning. caller: good morning. when we talk about race theory, i think my own fear -- when i think about historically the way i was taught in a classroom in minnesota, they left out so much information. they left out anything that did not reflect positively on white people. so, we were not teaching much about race at all. i, fortunately, went to a catholic college in minnesota, saint catherine's, and got the opportunity to take some incredible coursework and read some things that are difficult to read, and some of these things, but, you know what?

what we are teaching in our classrooms are so limited, and we are not exposing people to the pain. there is such a limitation. it is hard not to realize how we have left out so many groups of people. right now, i worked at a school , and we had 25% black, asian, white, and mixed-race kids. we had a school that was so diverse, and these kids are just wanting to learn. and they did not release each other like the other. i feel heartbroken that as a white woman i have not had -- i did not grew up with privilege. we grew up very poor. now we are fine. i am grateful for that. i also think there was so much missed from our experience of what we were being taught. i am afraid if we start teaching that right now they were sort of a hatred about white people, and

we have all grown up with this privilege. i did not have this privilege. i feel lost when people talk about this because i remember us wondering if we would eat at night and wondering if my parents are going to be able to pay for our home, and i remember worrying about these things as a small child. so, i did not grow up with this benefit. host: ok, catherine. we will take that point. guest: yeah, i think there is a lot to unpack there. a couple of things. yeah, i think people who are skeptical of crt and the influence at school say that it is not appropriate for schools to be teaching white students that they have a certain privilege or that more exclusively there is an a pressure class, and classmates who are students of color are oppressed or inherently disadvantaged because of their

race. i think that is one of the points skeptics of crt are making. in large part it is conservatives making that argument, but i think there are also some liberals. people who would identify as democrats, who are uncomfortable with the idea that these sorts of ideas in schools are sort of displacing the job schools should be doing, reading, writing, arithmetic. on the other side of the ledger, however, there are people who havein -- who have focused a lot in schools on equity and how can we provide experiences and the history of black people in the united states, how can we think about how to get more resources, more highly qualified teachers to those students? how can we provide them more access to advanced coursework?

so, that idea of equity is relatively powerful in education, and it does deal with issues of advantage and disadvantage to students with different backgrounds, and taking students' identities into account and their socioeconomic circumstances. those things may be our necessarily -- maybe are not necessarily intentional, but i think they are to a certain extent in this debate. host: tom, lancaster, california. good morning. caller: here is one thing that is not being taught in schools. taxation on sovereign nations, all the native and treaty lands. the government and the states are taxing people and not getting back the taxes that they should not even be collecting on native american lands.

the native americans -- i bade you to show the treaty agreed -- i beg you to show the treaty agreements on c-span. you can do it tomorrow, next week. you can show any representation for the native people all the money that has been stolen through the years, through the indian removal act's. host: tom, we are talking about education in critical race theory. we will go to patrick in louisville, kentucky, and educator. what do you teach? caller: i am an elementary school teacher, grades one to eight. host: go ahead. caller: what you are leaving out of this debate is the definition of what public education is. the definition of public education is a person, the more educated you are, the more you become a human being.

it is a process. in american public education, it started out with charles darwin and herbert spencer. herbert spencer was the president of harvard university. at that time, it was people thought that they did not leave that human beings were, you know, created in the image of god. spencer came about with the idea that education is a process, what they call, for example, the human body. the human body was just an animal state, and today in

critical racial theory, we had to come up with what they call national education association to debate those theories of spencer and charles darwin. and, if you look at the human person, and as a human person is created in the image of god, then we have to treat that person as an image of a created supreme being. if we look at education as an animal, it is a whole new ballgame. if you look at a black person, they do not look like they are created in the image of god. host: i -- apologies for that.