program, a look at covid therapies and covid response funding and the build back better act with dr. richard besser. washington journal starts now. ♪ host: good morning. it's sunday, november 14, 2021. with it -- it was dubbed the great resignation. it's a trend that doesn't appear to be slowing down. this morning, we are looking at a snapshot at what the great resignation looks like in your part of the country and how it is impacting you and your job. collis. phone lines -- call us. if you recently quit a job, 202-748-8000. if you are employed but looking

for a new job, 202-748-8001. if you are employed and satisfied at your current job, 202-748-8002. if you are unemployed, 202-748-8003. that's also the number if you want to send us a text this morning. if you do, include your name and where you are from. catch up with us on social media. http://twitter.com/cspanwj and facebook.com/cspan. you can go ahead and start calling in now. the number of people quitting their job comes on friday. here's the latest numbers as of september. that is their most recent numbers. 4.4 million americans put their jobs in september as americans continue to take advantage of ample job openings.

september quit numbers constituted 3% of the workforce. that is up from august. the statistics reflect the changes that continue to ranch --wrench the labor market after the pandemic upended the course of business and life. >> 4.4 million people quit their jobs. how are those figures accounted for when the president talks about the jobs created. when he talks about jobs growth. >> you also see in the data is

that people feel even as there are concerns about the cost of health food goods, this is a time to chip -- to switch careers and look for a new job. i think that is likely reflected in that data as well. you see that happen psychologically during the pandemic. also because people may have taken a moment to decide what they wanted to do with their lives. we still created that number of jobs. there are people who are changing jobs. are you asking how many of the new jobs created are people changing jobs? >> from 9 million people quit their jobs, they are all going to new jobs. is there any concern about this trend? does the great resignation have anything to do to reverse it? >> we know we've seen labor shortages in some industries. that's because i needed to have

a competitive package. it is a workers market. we know that. people are looking for more dependable than if it's. they are looking for wages that are higher. host: white house press secretary, jen psaki. phone lines a little differently this morning. if you have recently quit a job, 202-748-8000. if you are employed but looking for a job, 202-748-8001. if you are employed and satisfied in your current job, 202-748-8002. if you are unemployed, 202-748-8003. it is being called the great resignation. a tweet on this from nick bunker. he is an economist saying keep this in mind when you think about the great resignation.

most for in person lower paying industries and not the traditional office sectors. quits are up. leisure and hospitality quits. mining and logging and information sectors have seen a decrease in the number of quits since 2013. a different take on this topic, the great resignation. writing in the financial times herpes out today on this. she writes this "i'm just not convinced that millions of middle-class workers are waking up thinking, finally, it's the right time to open my pilates studio. or i can level up by getting a promotion with our biggest rival.

or how can i hang onto what i've got? how can i find some stability. it's likely to birth a different kind of rate resignation because there's another definition of that word resignation. being resigned to your fate, sticking it out, embracing stoicism. contacted divorce lawyers because they could not stomach more than 72 -- 72 hours in the same domestic space. people having personal epiphanies. the worst moments have stemmed, those of us professional and personal will be nobly resigned to reality and the devil that we know. writing for the financial times is morning. we are talking about the great resignation on the washington journal asking to hear from you, especially if you have recently

quit a job. but also want to hear from you if you are employed at looking for a job, if you are employed and satisfied with your job, and if you are unemployed. those are the phone lines. we hear from elizabeth, tampa. good morning. >> -- caller: good morning. host: what kind of work do you do? have you seen the impact of this rate resignation at his -- as it is being called? caller: i don't know if i am considered part of this question, but i work for the government. i'm not in the national side. i just don't know if that's who you want to hear from. host: we want to hear from everybody. you like your job? caller: i'm with the department of health and i adjudicate this ability flames. it's fulfilling to help people. we don't get paid a lot, but that's true for a lot of state

worker. it's got wonderful fits and i've got a long-term chronic illness so i'll be taking care of. i've got flsa -- flma. host: do you think you would get paid more if you what's where else? caller: i do. i can take off three months in a year. i don't know what type of job would do that. host: are there other employees in your state government job who have left? and has that impacted your job in recent months as we see the impact and what is being called the great resignation? caller: more people -- more people are staying. we do have this population that comes straight from college and they start their first job. 90% of the time are going to leave after two years. they can go to liberty mutual or

any state farm, insurance company, and make significantly more. host: thanks for the call. we will head to smyrna, georgia. recently quit a job. heather, what kind of work were you doing? caller: before i was in the logistics purchasing field. i am an older worker. my salary was quite low so when the pandemic hit and i saw that there were so many opportunities out there, i decided to interview. so i interviewed and at this point it's in a totally different field, a local television company in the atlanta area. i was able to negotiate my salary and i actually doubled my salary. i think i'm not the only person out there who took this pandemic and used it to their advantage.

again, i was making 40 k. i doubled that. and i couldn't be happier. and a lot of my friends, older workers like me, have done the same. throughout all of this bad, there is some good. and i do realize that inflation, but even with all that to actually be able to double my salary at my age is awesome. host: heather, let me ask you if you agree labor economist, and interview with the harvard gazette at the end of last month. they talked about this great resignation. he says "i think we have really met a once in a generation take this job and shove it moment. what we see is a lot of people asking for remote work, for civil, questioning situations.

he says for a lot of workers the financial situation is much better than it was coming out of the great recession with the expansion of the social safety net and stimulus payments during the paid -- during the pandemic. whether it temporary or this is a once in a generational change in labor activism is an open question. the number of strikes we've seen and the number of workers willing to protest is very high relative to where the unemployment rate is. so i think there may be something more persists persistent. from the harvard gazette. heather, do you agree with that? caller: i do a great with that wholeheartedly. that was my whole attitude. take this job and shove it. i asked for more money. they refused. once i resigned and i wasn't the only one to resign from that

company, they were angry. the shoe was then on the other foot. there's no negation -- there is no negotiating now. take this job and shove it. matter fact, i did not even give them an entire two weeks notice because they had treated me horribly in the past. host: heather, thanks for the call. good luck in that brand-new job. for those who are unemployed, good morning. caller: good morning. thank you very much for taking my call. i would like to first thank everyone behind-the-scenes who put us all on from wherever in the united states and elsewhere and all the work they do to get us heard and sometimes seen. i'm here right now with my service dog who is 14 and a half

years and i tried to work and get back to work for five years before all of your tax money in all of my rent was paid in time for years to a property developer who wrongly evicted me and i used to be a case manager for the mentally challenged on wall street so i know tenant laws, i know disabled laws. but he was given standing and all of my work, i'm pastor michael vincent and my human rights ministry oneworld life systems. you can look for owls visions. host: the job market right now,

you said you wanted to work. what are you looking for? caller: here it is. two miles to your right and two miles to your left starts my story because i've done, i was in the seminary and baltimore is having the bishops confer with one another and i've done my work pro bono for 30 years. i'm gone to rome with documents for 40 years and host: thank you. i'm very sorry for that story. we are going to stick with this question for jobs in this country. but thank you for calling in and thank you for your comments earlier about the team that puts

us on the air. it elmhurst, illinois. the line for those who are unemployed. you are next. good morning. caller: i'm 70. i've been a contract trainer for most of my career. so i don't hear a lot of partial jobs or contract jobs available. i've been teaching at university level project management. i'm a professional project manager. i'm fighting my own psyche and the fact that i'm 70, but i think is a huge pool of us boomers who are not ready to put down the excel spreadsheets. we are not ready to put down the contributions that we are will to make. the conversations terms for employment and not this fluid gig work mentality that almost all generations are in at this

moment and how maybe we can contribute 20 hours a week not 40 hours a week. host: thomas smith the director of the society of civil engineers. if you had a question for him, what would you ask? caller: is the money coming down for the infrastructure? is there ways the american civil engineering society can help retired or older, competent workers to plug into it and partial ways? not the traditional 40 hours a week. but is there ways we can team up with each other and cover jobs and more innovative ways. host: i will ask him. thanks for the call. thanks for the western. dominic, employed and looking. caller: he's 70 years old.

hang up his toolbelt. host: you think all people age 70 should retire? why can't people contribute past 70? caller: they can contribute, but they should enjoy their golden years. if you put in enough time and set up well enough, you should enjoy your life and enjoy your retirement rather than work that's rather than worry about the workforce when there are up and coming adults that are looking to get into that workforce. host: what are you looking to get into? caller: plumbing. host: is it hard to get into plumbing right now? caller: no, it's a great opportunity right now because it's one of the trades that a majority of the plumbers are his age, 60 to 70. and there's not many young guys getting into the trade. host: are you a plumber right

now and you are looking for different plumbing work? or do you have your mummers license yet? caller: i'm an apprentice right now. host: what is an apprentice? what does that pay? caller: it pays about 15 to $20 until you get your license. host: when you make when you have a license? caller: anywhere from 40 to $75. host: are you training with some of the other guys? caller: a little younger, but there's not a lot of gaze getting into the trade that are in their 20's or 30's right now. host: why did you pick it? caller: because it's a trade that's in demand right now. host: thanks for the call. connecticut -- rick, ohio, employed and satisfied and satisfied in what you do. caller: i'm a tool and die maker

in the cleveland area. i love the challenge, love the job. it's mental, it's physical. it's being, if you will, the grease monkey of working in a manufacturing company. host: manufacturing quits increase. are you seeing that in ohio? caller: no, our numbers have this client that have declined so bad -- our numbers have declined so bad that there is no new die makers coming in. the average age of a die maker is 58 years old. this country was built on manufacturing. and everyone keeps pushing

college, but no skilled trade. plumbing, electrical. i wish the government would realize that we need the skilled trades back in these country to make this country strong again. host: what's your favorite tool or die to make. caller: all over the board. we build and run progressive dies which goes in automatic -- everything you can imagine has manufactured stamped products. host: thanks for the call from ohio. the conversation were having this morning in the first hour of the washington journal is about the great resignation, about this record number of quits that is happening around the country. individuals leaving their jobs to go find other jobs.

if you want to join the conversation, if you have recently quit a job, 202-748-8000. if you are employed looking for a job, 202-748-8001. if you are employed and satisfied in your current job, 202-748-8002. if you are unemployed, 202-748-8003. some more on a great dish on the great resignation and the numbers coming from the -- some more on the great resignation and the numbers coming from the, the upper hand in being choosy with their next role. those are nationwide averages. some markets could have even fewer available workers for every job opening. gaps in openings versus the number of workers remain in the areas of health care, transportation, and warehousing

jobs that require in person work. john is next out of new york. employed, satisfied and what he does. what you do? caller: i worked in the thoroughbred industry. host: how is the thoroughbred industry these days? caller: it's pretty good. in new york, it's seasonal. i can transition to downstate new york and i can do that for the winter. host: we are so much about teleworking and working via zoom. is that possible in the thoroughbred industry? sir. we had limited sports access this year. and got a little bit better in 2021. it's slowly coming back. competition for jobs in your industry? is there a lot of switching jobs

between different employers or different companies in the third red industries russian mark is there competition for pay and benefits? -- thoroughbred industries? is there competition for pay and benefits? caller: the competition for employees is good. the -- the wages have gone up dramatically. the availability of workers is very slim the last three to four years. host: what got you into the thoroughbred industry? caller: it was a local activity in saratoga and i took a shot at it. it's an easy field, but it time-consuming. host: how long have you been in the industry? caller: eight years. for the first six years, i was making minimum wage. host: how about now? caller: the wage has doubled since i started in eight years. host: you think you're going to

be in it for the rest of your life? caller: yes. the wage is good, the benefits of got really good. it's a 300 city five day job -- 365 day job. there's no sick time come up, time family leave time. a couple of hours in the afternoon seven days a week. host: do you have a favorite horse? caller: they're all favored because they're all favored because there really nice animals. if they are happy, we are happy. host: michael, las vegas. good morning, you are next. caller: i am 76 years old. i am a caucasian male, vietnam veteran. 66-67. licensed lawyer in las vegas and

i can't get a job part time to cover my expenses with social security. my partner died of cancer last year. fully licensed lawyer is $12 an hour. host: and that's the work you are looking to do? caller: yes. i am a fully licensed lawyer in the state of nevada. i don't want to move. i have a townhouse where my partner and i lived. she died of cancer last year in october. it's like a $300 gap. they what you drive all across town to courts and still only

pay you 12 to $18 an hour. host: have you considered a different field as you have run into this and the pay issue? caller: i'm a licensed lawyer, but some states don't accept unless you are graduated from a aba school. my school wasn't aba, but i worked for 20 years in law and written hundreds of appellate juries and they say we need you for 60 hours a week. host: a few of your comments via social media. sandra on twitter saying i know quite a few 70 years old and

older people who substitute teach. there's a high demand for subs and the pay has gone up. sandra says she recommends it. just insane i'm a job recruiter. -- i'm justin -- justin says i'm a job recruiter. and have seen a large uptick in older candidates applying which companies don't want to touch. so many younger candidates who apply who i contact for a phone interview ghost me. at today's generation does not have the work ethic of those older. employed and looking for job -- employed and satisfied in your job, 202-748-8002. if you are unemployed, 202-748-8003. we mentioned a little bit ago the number of people who are teleworking via zoom during the pandemic. labor statistics since very

early in the pandemic keeping track of several statistics related to pandemic work. here's a few of them. in october, 11.6% of employed persons tele-worked because of the coronavirus pandemic. that is down. it 3.8 million people reported they have been unable to work because there and up -- their employer closed or lost business during the pediment. that is down. on that line for those who have quit a job, alex and illinois. what kind of job did you quit? caller: i'm a nurse by trade. at the height of the pandemic, i was working in hospice. i'm in my mid-30's. i have three young children and

i'm also in school full-time for the masters that's for my masters. -- for my masters. my husband works a union job. he has great benefits so i quit that job because i was working a 40 hour work week and not being very appreciated. i now work a registered position as a nurse at two of my local hospitals. i don't get an offense, but i get paid at a higher rate and i can make my own schedule. i don't work weekends, holidays. host: what is the wage for registered? caller: instead that of being scheduled for a full-time, i can work, the minimum i have to work i believe is for shifts within a month, but i can work as many as i want. i'm not required to work weekends like most nurses are.

i'm not required to work holidays. i can make my schedule as i please. with three young children, it is so wonderful because i can go to their sports events. i really evaluated my family and put family over money at this time. i'm still making enough to have my bills paid. host: are you finding that a lot of your fellow nurses have made that same evaluation during the pandemic? guest: caller: --caller: the nursing market right now is completely insane. nurses are feeling overworked, under appreciated. so many job opportunities because of the nursing shortage that companies have to hire what we call agency nurses which are outside nurses who get paid an exorbitant amount of money because we can't fill the positions that are needed. host: are they also known as travel nurses?

caller: correct. host: you talk about your husband being in a union. are you in a nursing union? caller: i don't know how many nursing unions we have in illinois. i'm in a very rural area so there are no nursing unions out here. my husband works for a natural gas company. me giving up my benefits for this registry position was not an issue being covered under his benefits. host: the benefits for you was more possibility and the ability to see her family more? caller: exactly. this pandemic forced me to evaluate my priorities, especially in the beginning when the children were at home doing school from home. it gave me much more possibility to be able to meet my family needs. host: thanks for the call.

terry and virginia, employed and set of ash and satisfied. what kind of work? caller: we own a manufacturing sheet metal shop and we have about half a dozen employees. because it is an employees market, we've had to raise the wages of all of our employees. but at the same time, if they come in late, call out once a week, do things that we, we have to look the other way and bite the bullet because we need our employees. that's kind of interesting. but we don't pay anybody any less than, i don't know because of the steel tariffs. our profit margins are extremely tight. we've been fortunate to be able to work through this whole thing

and stay in business. that's really nice. host: are you having employees come to you and say hey i'm getting a better offer from a different company over here. i'm going to need more pay to stay. hasn't happened yet? caller: not in our line of work. there's not that many people, there's a few. the early thing i really worry about is health care. i hate the fact that health care is attached to jobs. that's a huge mistake because you're tied to your job because health care is so expensive. we don't offer health care to our employees. i worry about that and i wish we could, but it is outrageously expensive. profit margins are tight as it is. some of them have health care through their spouses. my husband has benefits from his

job. it keeps you tied to a job you might not want to keep. host: what did the affordable care act do for that issue at your company? caller: it had no affect because we don't pay our people poverty wages. they probably don't qualify for that. i'm not sure what the wage is. if you are making 15, $18 now or you probably don't qualify for the affordable care act. host: taking your phone calls. it is just past 7:30 a.m. on the east coast. i want to hear about your job status. phone lines for those who are employed and satisfied and those who are unemployed. all of those phone lines available for you to call in. as you continue to call in, i want to show you federal reserve

chairman jerome powell from earlier this month. who was asked about the great resignation as it is being called. he said the great resignation has been a good thing in several ways for u.s. workers. here's a bit of what that -- here's a bit of his comments. >> i want to dig lipid deeper on employment. we've seen -- a little bit deeper on employment. we've seen what is being called the great resignation. people leaving their jobs in record numbers. is there any feeling that been accused of fighting the last war that maybe -- that perhaps the labor dynamics have changed and employment might not look like what it looked like before? >> what's happening is people are leaving their jobs. they are quitting their jobs in high numbers. but in many cases going back into employment and getting higher wages.

a lot of the higher wages you are seeing is for job switchers. that's the sign of a really strong labor market as opposed to people just running off and putting. there are a significant number of retirements. we will have to see what that means. toward the end of the last cycle which was the longest in our recorded economic history, we did see labor force dissipation moving up well about -- well above the trend. part of that was people staying in the labor force and just not retiring at the rate they are expected to retire. i am a believer that over time, you won't know how far, you won't know what can happen with liver force participation in advance. you are just going to have to give it some time. we've seen that over and over again. we can say this is where the

limit is. labor force per dissipation is a much more flexible subject for me. so i do think we need to be -- labor forced participation is much more flexible subject for me. we do not know the pace at which it will do so. in terms of full employment, as i discussed earlier i think of the recovery, the natural thing to do was to look back at labor market conditions february 2010 at the end of the longest expansion in our history. it was so much to like about that labor market, and it was a historically good labor market. we are in a different world now. it's just very different. the pandemic recession was the deepest and the recovery has been the fastest. wages do not really go down.

real incomes were more than fully replaced. all of this is completely unusual. an economy where inflation was driven by services and now inflation and goods have had negative inflation for quarter century. host: talking about the great resignation and that's the focus of this conversation today. in light of that statistics report that came out on friday that showed in september the latest numbers for those who quit their jobs, left their jobs. a record number, and replacing the august number that at that point had been the record number. a record number of people putting jobs in america. i want to hear your job status. kim on that line for those who have quit a job out of jacksonville, florida. what kind of job did you do? what job do you do now question mark -- now? caller: it downsized to a

permanently at-home position. it was in the construction field . with the being in the construction field and permanently working from home, i decided to change pace during the pandemic because i did not want to stay home. i was able to increase and better benefits because of the health insurance, dental and vision. the benefits package. host: kim, what did your company say when you are leaving? did you give them a chance to try to keep you on the job? caller: they were not willing to give a raise because they were downsizing. that was part of the reason i left because there was not many

people working and it was harder. therefore, i decided to make a change. making that change, i was able to negotiate a better salary and better benefits. host: what you like better? working in an office or teleworking? caller: working in an office. host: why? caller: because the field that i'm income of the construction field, -- because the field that i'm in, the construction field, they were not affected and they need people in the office and i am not one for working from home. that was a preference choice. host: why do you not like working from home? caller: it's hard to change hats from being a mom to a worker, to balance the home and work life was difficult. host: thanks for the call.

john is in massachusetts. employed and looking. are you looking in the same field? caller: yes, i'm a sober buyer -- sole proprietor. what i see happening is, i've only changed companies three times. and the reason for that is because for about the last 30 years, i see inflation outpace wages. i'm in the same position where the inflation has gone up. of course, it's a little bit different with the pandemic. the inflation has increased on much that fuel is up there at four dollars a gallon. i'm looking to move again because my money is buying less products. also, for about 30 years, this been a battle against unions. a lot of the politicians have

been paid by corporations to turn states into right to work states which means you don't have to join a union. so there are a lot of things that have culminated over the last 30 years that i think people would opened up -- just open their eyes and, in my opinion, $20 an hour should be minimum wage. you have to factor in all of the increases in food and everything out there. i'm working. i've been working throughout the pandemic. i'm looking to move again because the wages have not gone up. the increase in wages in the trucking industry. they are crying there's not enough drivers. and i don't believe this truth. the increase in wages, they are ten-year old wages. they should have been increased to an years ago. so what you are getting today is tenure old wages. host: are you driving a truck

right now? caller: i am. host: where are you heading? caller: i'm headed to new jersey, new york and massachusetts. host: what are you hauling? caller: i do telecommunications for at&t. host: do you get paid by the mile? or do you get paid by the hour? caller: i get paid by the mile. i also get a little bit of a fuel incentive. but in the last 30 days, i'm going to say you'll has probably gone up, i would say about $.50 to $.75 a gallon in the last 30 days maybe five weeks, six weeks. and that's a good chunk of money. the gas prices are up there, but they're not as high as the diesel. if there is a demand, but i

don't understand is if there is a demand for truckers and they are saying there's not enough truckers, then why is the fuel going up? i'm looking at other alternatives like opec is in no hurry to increase their demand, their output. everything made in china. you can blame it on the pandemic, but we import so much and we depend on so many other countries for so many things, what is to prevent them from slowing down and creating what is created today, what is actually happening with our supply chain. host: thanks for the call. stay safe on the road. truckers often call into this program. we appreciate you guys and all you folks listening.

rick is in virginia looking for job. good morning. caller: i'm not looking, but i'm kinda messed up at my job. two months time, make the same amount of money as you do. that's not right. seniority domain nothing no more. host: that's rick in virginia. call in and turn your television down when you do collin. just member that in it will help keep the conversation easier to understand. this is marked out of california. i'm concerned by the turbulence brought about by governments over reactions to covid, especially the trillion dollar printing press destroying the value of my savings. this from jay saying part of the

great resignation same industry with a median 28% boost. kenneth saying underemployed. i'm working part-time until i can get some thing better. eric saying i'm employed but making less them before the pandemic. dan fully employed currently on paid leave in the north carolina mountains. life is good. thank you. comment from social media and facebook and text messaging service. that number 202-748-8003. out of st. louis, missouri. satisfied. good morning. caller: good morning. can you hear me? i muted my tv. i cannot believe i'm actually on because i watch you guys every morning before i go to work. just wanted to say that. host: once a month, once every

30 days and we are more than happy to chat with you. caller: i am a mental health therapists and i work with women and children of domestic violence. it's at a shelter so during pandemic, we had to shelter in place. we then became essential workers. i've been very fortunate to have kept my job. i just wanted to put up voice out for all of the licensed therapists out there. host: is that, sadly during the pandemic, something that you are seeing so much more incidents of as people were in their homes so much more? caller: right, well.

so when i say it shelter-in-place, we had to keep individual that was already there and unfortunately, we could not accept more families. of course, we provided appropriate resources to make sure everybody was safe. but i just want to say i'm a bit advocate for education -- big advocate for education even though i believe in certifications and things like that. but being a licensed therapist, i'm able to transition over toward my retirement because i'm looking at maybe few more years in the market to private practice. that would be the virtual kickoff. the pandemic really brought out virtual therapy. it has really just taken off. i'm glad because i can reach out

to more individuals. host: how many people can you see a day during these virtual visits versus in person? caller: it depends. for example, you could see up to 10 people every week. 10 hours every week. it's flexible. the nurse that called earlier, she can make her own schedule. that's what i am looking forward to being able to do in the future, make my own schedule. it would be centered around my availability. i have found that a lot because i had to do my sexual assault group zoom. i found that it's really a great opportunity for ladies to join. host: do you find that people

are more willing to share in a virtual zoom environment versus in person? do you lose something by not having that in person connection? caller: i feel like i do lose a little, nonverbal. you are looking at the person, but you are looking from the top to maybe their middle section. but you're not looking at the persons lake shaken for example. you can't see those things -- the persons leg shaking read you can't see those things. host: thanks for what you do in st. louis. maryland, good morning. caller: good morning. host: you're looking for job. caller: i have a job, but i'm looking for a job because i was

pushed out of what i ask you do for a living which was drywall ed metal studs, -- and metal studs, stuff like that. but one of the biggest things that i'm seeing in all phases of the trades, whether it's bodywork and body shops, i have experienced on both. construction work trade as well as automobiles being worked on. i have watched black guys and white guys being phased out because of so many immigrants coming in that working cheaper and i really feel from a white brothers that are losing their jobs coming from pennsylvania, west virginia. it's -- they are coming down because it's being dominated by immigrants. this is in all phases. every trade is being phased out.

and people don't have no sensitivity or feelings about what they are actually doing to us. we can't work for those wages. a lot of them are making good money because they come from a country so they can come over here because they already know how to do these trades and do these things, but is that right to be american citizens that of put out so much? is that really right? the politicians are not sensitive or they don't care. talk to the average white guy that is lost his job because he was a drywall hanger. our talk to the guys that work in the body shop. all phases of work that american people do. they are not sensitive to it. it's wrong. people are coming up here. another don't mean no harm, but the thing about it, we can't keep sustaining people coming

here in waves. they have to come here legally because it's a process. this is really hurting the american people. host: less than two minutes left in this segment of the washington journal. we want to hear from you about your job status. let us know what you are doing in your working life. whether you are looking for a job, recently quit a job, unemployed. a few comments from social media. this one saying when a hurricane lows through the gulf of mexico, gas prices increased and we all except that without question. but when up pandemic moves to america, the price of labor increased and we can't accept that. -- except that? it is only the conservatives who don't understand this. troy, west babylon, new york. a satisfied in your job. caller: i'm blind.

i've been blind for the past 10 years. unfair to people on disability. so what i did was i got my own youtube channel, i give stock advise. host: how is the stop prediction industry these days? easier? harder #-- harder? caller: i watched the stock market all day.

we happy about that. host: some free stock advice in this first hour of the washington journal? caller: my twitter page. host: west babylon, new york. maryland, unemployed. good morning. caller: i'm a disabled senior living by myself in a small basement apartment in maryland. and i've been looking for a job for two years. i have a phd in cultural and apology, masters and cultural anthropology -- phd in cultural anthropology, masters in cultural anthropology.

i cannot live on social security. it is not enough money. i've been looking for a job for two years. i can work at home on my computer. i don't have a car. i don't have transportation, but there are no buses where i live. but i can work from home. i cannot live on social security. i'm disabled red i'm intellectually completely there -- i'm disabled. i'm intellectually completely there. host: what are these companies telling you when you apply? do they respond with what the issue is in this market? caller: they respond, but they don't hire me. i think it's because of my age. i think i am being discriminated against because of my age. i really do. seniors get jobs at grocery stores and places like target and walmart. but it's very hard when you are a senior to find a good job unless you have been a professor

, dr. kamala you're your whole life. it's very hard to get in that -- professor, dr. your whole life. i can't find a thing, i can't find anyone who will hire me. i think it's because of my age. i cannot live on social security. i have rent to pay, utilities, cable. i get food stamps which is really saving me. but i can't live on my income right now. i've been trying so hard. i can't find one. it's just terrible. i'm suffering so much. i'm well educated. i don't mean to brag. i have a phd and a masters. host: thanks for sharing your story with us. we are running out of time enough got a couple more folks who want to get in who have been

waiting. chris and buffalo, new york. good morning. go ahead. caller: host: vanessa, tempo florida. caller: host:host: -- vanessa, florida. caller: in my case, i am also looking for a job and it has been a year. i worked in the hospitality industry and i was in hr, or m in hr and was the head --am in hr. coming down to the wire, the company said they were laid me off and it has been a year looking for a job just like the other caller. i go online every day. i either get an interview. i got hired. they rescinded the offer. it has been a challenge.

i just want to say that even if they are saying that it is employees market, it is still difficult according to the industry that you are in. or even according to who you are. sometimes is that woman said it's about age, it could be about race. it could be your former employer putting out information that may not be necessarily correct or even put you in a good light so that in case you get a reference , it's hard for you to get a job. it's discouraging, but it's also encouraging because it allows you time to pipit. -- pipit --pivot. it yes it is a hiring field, but it is difficult out there to get hired according to your field, according to sometimes your race, according to your age. according to your agenda. -- according to your gender. host: stick around.

plenty more to discuss this morning, including we will be joined by american society of civil engineers executive director tomdirector, tom smiths the implementation of the bipartisan infrastructure bill which gets signed into law tomorrow. later this morning, former acting cdc director richard besser is here to discuss the latest covid-19 vaccination news and recent developments in drug therapies. we will be right back. ♪ >> on this episode of book notes plus. >> a historian, tour guide and author. his latest book is called the lost history of the capital. it is an account of many bizarre, tragic and violent episodes around the u.s. capitol building, from the founding of the federal city in 1790 up to contemporary times.

among many accomplishments in his career, he's been a speechwriter for george h w bush and a writer for the tonight show with jay leno. >> book notes plus is available on c-span or wherever you get your podcasts. >> this week on the c-span networks, both chambers of congress are in session. the house will take up president biden's build back better social spending plan. the delay came at the request of some moderate democrats who wanted the congressional budget office to analyze the bill. on tuesday at 10:00 eastern, live on c-span3, allman security secretary alejandra mayorkas testifies in an oversight hearing. the hearing was postponed last month after the secretary tested positive for covid-19. also at 10:00, live on cspan.org and the c-span now mobile app,

the leading cyber security experts from the white house, homeland security and fbi will testify before the house oversight and reform committee on strategies to crack down on ransomware attack's, and build resilience against cyber threats. on wednesday at 10:00 eastern, live on c-span3, the confirmation hearing for federal communications commission chair nominee jessica rosenworcel. if confirmed, she will be the first woman to serve in this capacity. the committee will also take other nominations, including commissioner of the federal trade commission. at 10:30 a.m. eastern on cspan.org and the c-span now mobile app, a virtual meeting in the house appropriations subcommittee to discuss the u.s. role in global covid vaccine equity. you can watch our full coverage on c-span now, our new mobile video app. also had over to cspan.org first get -- head over to cspan.org to

get -- c-span, your unfiltered view of government. >> what impact will the texas abortion law have on communities and families? the house judiciary committee asked both pro-choice and pro-life advocates. watch on c-span2, online at cspan.org, or watchful coverage on c-span now, our new free video app. >> "washington journal" continues. host: tom smith is back with us. he sirs -- he serves as executive director of the american civil -- american society of civil engineers. it is the nation's oldest engineering society. it is fair to say it has been one of the biggest advocates for the $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill that gets signed into law tomorrow. guest: we have certainly been

advocating for this for a couple of decades now. we think it is critical for the country. we have been major supporters of it, and we think it is definitely taking a step in the right direction. host: i'm wondering what the next steps are. here is a headline from the brookings institute on the info structure bill. america has infrastructure bill, what happens next? guest: good question. the bill will be signed tomorrow at 3:00. our president will be there. they will be an awful lot of work to be done. it seems like we have just gotten across the finish line but we are really just starting because this is an enormous amount of work to be done at the federal, state, local and private sector levels. now the different agencies, the money has to be distributed. some of that will be done

pursuant to existing formulas and grant programs but others are very new programs and they will need to be performance metrics and regulations developed. this money is going to be distributed over quite a number of years. host: digging into that, how do states decide what infrastructure project should be identified for this money? can you talk through those formulas on how it is divvied up? what are the formulas we know so far? guest: this is a complex array of infrastructure. we did our report card on america's infrastructure and we look at 17 categories, everything from roads and bridges and levees to parks, schools, drinking water systems, stormwater systems. it is a complex and interrelated system. we also look at broadband and energy. there is a wide variety of grant

programs, loan programs, discretionary funding that will be associated with this bill. some of those are programs that are in place today. on the transportation side, some things are new like the electrical vehicle grants program. there was a new carbon reduction program, a new -- they call it protect, resiliency grants program. that is going to take time to develop and implement. then you have existing surface transportation bills being authorized for the next five years. that is great news because the departments of transportation need to rely on that money and need a sustainable reliable fundings of -- funding source for modernization progress -- modernization projects that are so important. we need to be more resilient and sustainable in the future. much of our infrastructure is

running up to the end of its life. we need to be thinking not just where the puck is today but where it will be down the road. this is complex, to make sure we are building resilience and sustainability into all of these projects as we are planning and building anything going forward. host: talking about that bipartisan structure bill. the question, what happens next is what we are discussing with tom smith of the american society for civil engineers. phone lines if you want to join the conversation. (202)-748-8000 if you are in the eastern or central time zones. (202)-748-8001 if you are in the mountain or pacific time zones. reminding viewers of what is actually in that bill, that reauthorization of the surface transportation program.

110 billion dollars for roads, bridges and major projects. $66 billion for passenger and freight rail. $65 billion for broadband internet. $46 billion for climate change resilience. $39 billion for public transit. $17 billion for ports and waterways. you were talking about some of the new programs that are in this bill. included in the bill is billions of dollars in new grant discretionary programs, from the federal department of transportation, and it was last week that transportation secretary pete buttigieg was asked about the formulas used for that program and where that new funding will go. this is what he had to say. [video clip] >> it is an unprecedented amount of discretionary funds. can you spell out how you plan to prioritize that money and

give us a sense of what projects you expect to see getting money and getting started first? >> our department has been gearing up, hoping this bill would be passed and now we are taking it to the next level. part of it is an increased funding in programs we already have, such as -- within the framework that the law puts forward, you will see an emphasis on projects that taken together give us extra value in the priorities of this administration. economic strength, safety, climate, equity, preparing for the future. we see a lot of projects that overlap and if you look to what we funded with the last round, that will give you a sense. we will have so much more to work with. then there are areas we have to stand upholding programs. we've never had a multibillion-dollar initiative like that.

responding to where federal dollars divided the community along racial lines. i think the intent of those programs is clear but the mechanics, we have to work very hard to make sure we get it right, the criteria is transparent and it is easy to understand how to apply, whether you are a big city or a small rural community. and of course, that all of those dollars are spent accountable he. we are talking about a lot of taxpayer money. host: that was the transportation secretary last week in the white house briefing room. tom smith, are you satisfied with the breakdown of new funding, that goes to federal dollars versus state and local dollars? did they get it right in this bill? guest: as i mentioned early on, it is a step in the right direction. we identified a funding gap in our report we release every four years.

secretary buttigieg spoke at our solutions summit, as well as our convention. he's been a great leader on these issues. we identified a 2.6 trillion dollars investment funding gap over the next 10 years. nearly half of that is in the surface transportation area. we look at the overall scope of this bill. at one point, to trillion dollars. $500 billion of that is money, a lot of it is reauthorization of existing -- within 30 fruit -- a 34% increase over existing funding levels. this is definitely a step in the right direction, but not as much as we are going to need long-term. it is historic and generational. there is no question about that, but our needs are so great because we have been kicking

this can down the road for many years now. this is of a that has been talked about by many in ministrations and it has bipartisan support for good reason because it is something the country desperately needs. if we want to maintain global competitiveness, while preparing for the increasingly severe weather events we are seeing, making sure infrastructure is equitable and sustainable as you heard the secretary talking about. those are all important considerations for us. i think there is a lot of work that has been done on this bill. it is not perfect, but it really has done a terrific job of comprehensively addressing this complex system of infrastructure with investment and forward thinking. it also includes research dollars, that will in some cases be implanted right away. a lot of things will have to be shelf worry the -- shelf for

the, to -- shelf worthy. host: tom smith is the director of the american society of civil engineers. if you want to call in, (202)-748-8000 if you are in the eastern or central time zones. (202)-748-8001 in the mountain or pacific time zones. we always talk to the american society of civil engineers in a new info structure bill comes out. you mentioned a reminder, that c minus was america's cumulative infrastructure grade. you can see on that chart, broken up into the 17 different categories. lots of c's and d's, mediocre and poor ratings on things like aviation and dams and hazardous waste. the worst grade went to transit in this country. where do you expect that report card to be, a year or two years

from now, as this infrastructure bill starts to have an impact? guest: it went from a d+ to a c- since we released -- c- since we released the report card. that means marginal improvement. still 11 d's. our goal is to get to at least a b range. i think we will see an increase between now and the next four years when we issue the next report card. i'm confident with the investments we are making and the planning we are doing and the resources we are putting into this, starting with a national vision and you will see the states and local governments are going to be lining up behind this. the business community, the labor community, we've been

working in coalitions on this for many years now with big business and big labor hand in hand on but in infrastructure, everyone is in agreement. everybody together is unified, and we will be supporting the signing of this bill tomorrow. i'm confident that the grades will go up from a c- with this level of investment and vision we are getting, starting with the president and congress and working right through the states and local governments and private sector. host: c-span will be covering that signing ceremony live tomorrow. you can watch it here on c-span. a question from jim on twitter, focusing on rail infrastructure. jim says i thought freight rail infrastructure was all most entirely funded by the private sector, so maybe $66 billion seems high to me, is what jim

says. guest: a good point about the rail system. i think that is the highest grade on our report card. that does reflect exactly what was referred to, the private sector investment in our freight rail system. it is a strong system with direct shipper fees, investing on average $260,000 per mile. where we have some room for significant improvement is on the passenger side. that requires government investment. it is plagued by a lack of government support, with repair backlogs on the rail side. the northeast core door, -- core ridor, there is enormous need for investment on the passenger rail side. particularly when you consider it is an efficient way of moving people. if you look at what is happening

with high-speed rail in other countries, including 15,000 miles in china, we do have room for improvement. this northeast corridor is one example. host: the place where you can go to find all of these numbers, infrastructurereportcard.org. you can click on any of the 17 categories and find the information, the overviews on why they were given the grades that they were. the american society of civil engineers with that report card. this is terry out of texas. good morning. caller: yes, i think the american people should step back and look at the red flags that come up when you hear the words discretionary spending and billions of dollars in the same sentence. we will be going no telling where in the future with our

kids and grandkids and great grandkids, paying for this. host: mr. smith? guest: i think it is going to be important to make sure we do this right, and that we are investing in the right projects. doing this right and doing the right things. with discretionary funding, it is going to be important to have performance metrics, regulations, fact sheets that make it clear, what are the criteria on which this money will be distributive? we have to make sure that these are shovel worthy projects, that they are good for the country and that there are specific criteria they are going to be meeting. host: our next question from twitter. what percent of our infrastructure has failed? to find failed infrastructure means. -- define what failed infrastructure means. guest: we have to consider that

when we fail to invest in infrastructure, i know there is concern about the price. the economic generation will exceed the price of this because you have to consider that if we do not invest in infrastructure, it costs everybody money. there are inefficiencies in our system. we've suffered through over the past year, at the texas grid, look at hurricanes that have come through. when you see our energy system gets shut down, our transportation is not reliable, when you see problems with the supply chain. those impact our quality of life but also hit us economically. they hit our gdp, job production and competitiveness. you really have to consider the fact that if we fail to invest in our infrastructure, we actually cost every family $3300 , that is the economic study we have done.

we all pay that hidden tax. let us buy we argue that we need to invest in our infrastructure if we are going to be globally competitive. host: the question was about defining what failed infrastructure means and what percentage of our infrastructure in this country is failed. guest: as we look at what has failed, we do have instances where we have to shut down bridges, for example. we all saw her earlier this year, the i-40 bridge that shut down between tennessee and arkansas. that is a bridge that would normally carry 40,000 cars in a day. maybe even more than that. when that is the case, that has an enormous cost. those trucks have to be detoured

, and that was for a period of two months. we failed to maintain our infrastructure and then have to shut down -- when we fail to maintain our infrastructure and then have to shut it down like that, it has significant cost. remember the i-35 bridge collapse in minneapolis. it is pretty rare when things like that happen, but when we fail to harden our energy systems, such as we saw in texas. we had close to 10 million people without power. we lost a couple hundred lives. we had disruptions in water and transportation systems. that has tremendous impact on our quality of life. a lot of times we don't appreciate infrastructure, until we don't have it or it disappears. then we realize that it is an

absolutely essential part of our quality of life. we rely on drinking water and energy. the info structure we have needs to be absolutely prioritized -- the infrastructure needs to be absolutely prioritized. this isn't a choice, it is critical that we have reliable and resilient infrastructure that can resist different types of weather events that we are experiencing now, increasingly. it is essential that we do this. host: tim in georgia, good morning. caller: good morning and thank you for c-span. i am most interested in how president biden's commitment to justice 40 with 40% of infrastructure dollars flowing to benefit disadvantaged communities, and how that will be determined, with this infrastructure bill and also in

the long range given climate change. all of that in one package. if you could speak to that, i would appreciate it. guest: thank you. the two issues on the justice, equity and inclusion, that is something that we consider associated with sustainability. every time we are looking at projects as engineers, trying to show that they are sustainable, and we would look at sustainability, social, economic , environmental considerations, a number of the different funds look at different disadvantaged communities to make sure that the money that is being distributed is not leaving anybody behind. i know there are rural opportunities for using transportation for economic success. there is rural area funding.

in the transit systems, including disabilities and urbanized communities. there are set-asides for rail, rural projects. serving rural and this adventist communities, set-asides for drinking water and wastewater to make sure it creates a low income water assistance pilot program. also on the energy side, there was money set aside for new power lines and renewable energy. there was a pretty heavy focus on making sure that the electrical vehicle charging networks also use federal funding with a focus on rural, disadvantaged and hard to reach communities, to make sure we are not leaving anybody behind.

there is also project money here for resilience, to make sure that we can adapt to climate change. there was also climbed -- carbon reduction grants to make sure we can mitigate and help prevent climate change. that is going to be critical on both sides, that we mitigate the impact and adapt to the impact. checking on resilience, there is money set aside for the safeguarding tomorrow through risk mitigation act, trying to make sure we are adapting to these climate change impacts. there is $1 billion over five years for the resilient infrastructure and communities program to help communities mitigate against the impacts of climate change.

i know some of those are to make sure that the favorite disadvantaged amenities are in -- are recognizing the impact of flooding. there is a real recognition that if you have funding set aside in your core resilience, i would also say that every thing that is spent, civil engineers are constantly looking at everything we do to make sure that it is sustainable and resilient. that is built into our code of ethics and we have a comprehensive update just this year, making sure that we focus on sustainability and focus on things like social equity as well. we have a number of different policies and a lot of training. we have a training tool for projects called envision we look at different criteria to make sure projects are sustainable, including social equity and

social justice. i thicket is important, one that is carefully considered in this legislation and it certainly is one that civil engineers take very seriously. host: specifically on justice 40, you can go to whitehouse.gov. if you go to the briefing room section, july 20 of this year, there was a release on the path to achieving justice 40, which i believe was her specific question. you can click to the interim guidance that was released that day on july 20, a 13 page memorandum to the heads of departments and agencies on justice 40 and they 2021 -- the 21 specific pilot programs the biden administration has identified to be the tip of the spear on justice 40. that might help, felicia. jason in honolulu.

good morning. caller: how are you doing? thank you, c-span. we have this turkey of a real project going on and it has been going on since 2006. the first prediction was $4 billion and now it is $21 billion and it is scheduled to open in 2031. i don't even want to do the math . i don't up i'm going to be in shape to ride that rail, but i am wondering how this legislation would help something like this rail, which is really political, how this legislation, what president biden is signing, how that might speed up the process, and i will listen off of the air. guest: i could not tell you specifically of the money being invested, that this is good with

the largest investment in 50 years. we talked about an additional $66 billion over the next five years. i am generally familiar with the project in hawaii and i don't know other specifics. obviously these are large complex projects and i think one of the other things that is going to be addressed in this legislation is permitting and streamlining the permitting process. that is another thing that has caused delays in many of these large complex projects and we need to make sure we are considering environmental and historical heritage as we design and planned and operate these projects but we need to do it expeditiously and efficiently and this legislation does include some provisions for that. the fast 41 program, to make sure that this is done in a

coordinated manner. i don't know how much funding would impact hawaii specifically in helping with delays and cost overruns that are experienced out there. i do know that happens sometimes and it is not something we like to see. these are very large complex projects with a lot of different considerations. host: patricia from oregon. caller: good morning mr. smith and thank you for being on. my concern is about education of children for this modernization, and i am just hoping that parents will come together with schools to bring in congresspeople, universities and industry, to talk to the schools

and the kids about disciplines that will need training and study in, to prepare for the modernization of america, and it is a collaborative approach, i hope that includes kids for their future and what -- how they can play a part in it, and to wonder if there is any effort to bring those various folks together, to help bring people into the parents and their kids, to be a part of it. host: thank you for the question. tom smith? guest: that is something we focus on a lot. he could see that picture right there that says dream big. we were an imax film called dream big and it played in theaters all over the country and the world and if you google

it, you can watch it on netflix, and download educational materials as we try to get folks excited about being a civil engineer. there are a lot of different engineering disciplines and they have a major impact on our quality of life. they are critical for this country and we have a significant challenge ahead and we have to get a workforce together to implement this new legislation. over the longer-term, we need to continue that and innovate for the future. we can only do that if we can inspire future engineers. we released that film and we have a lot of materials on our website, lesson plans and educational materials that can be used, with more detail about engineering, because it is a fascinating field and it is a rewarding one, and we need to make sure that the kids are

inspired and participating. we've been working on that and we send engineers out to high schools and grade schools all the time and we talk about the work that we do and its impact on the planet and our future and quality of life, and again this is going to be critical as we now look at this legislation because we've got to have a workforce at a time when -- i know we have unemployment at 4.5% and many people are still looking for jobs and at the same time we have to make sure we fill a lot of the slots that we need to fill in the stem fields, so we've got a lot of work to do. host: dream big, with the tagline engineering our world. duwayne is next out of georgia. caller: good morning. thank you for having me on. the opinion of the american people is critical at this juncture in our country.

i would appreciate i appreciate mr. smith coming on. there are 80 that -- 89,000 public element tree schools in the united states. i am the president and ceo of the united states amateur athletic association. we work with the schools. one of the problems we are having that is pretty much associated with the instructor bills that are passing through congress is the loans not being footed to small businesses like myself. it is critical to get these small companies back to work so we can continue to start employing people and to climb out of this mess, it takes a collaborative effort. i have been independent since i voted for jimmy carter back in 1976. that goes for congress, i am in district seven of the united states congress. i have been in touch with her

office and they have been aiding me to try and work with the sba to release these funds these small businesses and now it has reached a critical state with our company. that is what we do. we work with elementary, with public schools throughout our jurisdiction and we have plans to work with them throughout the united states. witchel have 12 school districts that have -- that we have sent our proposals too. we have to start working together as a country. the republican and democratic party, there needs to be a third party, an independent party, a party that does not care who you are, that all they are looking for is what is best for the united states of america. host: i recommend you tune in to tomorrow's program, because were going to talk a lot more about the political affiliation split in this country, a new pew research report taking a look at that divide and the political typology as it is being called,

but tom smith, anything you wanted to pick up on? guest: it certainly is a major concern, the political divide in the country, and that is one of the things we can celebrate about this legislation. as i said earlier, it is not perfect and you won't have 100% support on either side of the aisle, but you do have bipartisan support, and you have the drafters who were bipartisan. 69 votes in the senate. this is something where both sides really can rally together, it is something that was promoted by both candidates during the election. some it has been proven by prior a ministrations as well, something that we desperately need and there is a recognition of that. this is something that i think we can rally behind. we used to rally together when there was a crisis. when the power is gone or the

transportation or water section -- sector has problems, everyone unifies. infrastructure is something where we can get out in front of this and be proactive and this can also unite the country. your point about the small business loans, that is also very important for the country, but i do think as we are talking year to date, that this is something that can really address the issue that you raised. it is not perfect, but it is a bipartisan effort and it is going to be a bipartisan implementation. host: next in 10 minutes left -- less than 10 minutes left with tom smith, our first guest. eye color left me a question to ask, dan from illinois who called in, and i believe he was in his 70's and he said are there ways that the american society of civil engineers can help retired workers, older

workers plug into the new funding that is available here, through the bipartisan infrastructure framework? asking if they can do it in ways that may not be full-time work but partial hours, ways that they can benefit? guest: we look at the workforce issues associated with the implementation and it is a significant challenge. there is a wide variety of employment opportunities that are blue-collar and white-collar and you look at contracts and engineers and operators. all of those people who provide the equipment that is necessary and the list goes on, of all the different implement opportunities there are, associated with this kind of building effort throughout the country. all that requires a human workforce and that requires a diverse human workforce of all

ages, and there should be many different opportunities at many different levels, as we embark on the ample mentation stage right now that will require a fair amount of training and certification programs. the different labor unions are very focused on that but i do think there will be a lot of opportunities for employment in many different sectors. host: to the granite state, this is ray in litchfield. caller: i watch a lot of those shows on discovery and history about binge it -- big engineering projects. i saw one out at the oakland bay bridge and one of the things that really stuck with me is the narrator of the show was saying that there was so much steel used in that project that the chinese steel company had to build a new steel mill for that project. is there anything in this bill

that is going to put american steel or american products or materials ahead of building new chinese steel plants? even though it might be more expensive, when you buy u.s. steel, your creating jobs in the midwest and the economic growth factor from that alone offsets the cost of paying more for the steel that the chinese gave us. host: tom smith? guest: all the different materials, that is a critical issue and there is a -- to get around those you have to have certain exemptions that would have to be approved. there are buy american provisions and as we look at sustainable and resilient practices, what is the carbon footprint on steel many factories in the united states?

they are very focused on sustainable practices and looking at carbon footprints and recycling steel at extremely high level. they can tell you think achieves and when you produce the steel right here, you are not shipping it across the country, which has a carbon footprint associated with it across the world, so there are lots of benefits and that is a tremendous steel manufacturing organization. with some extremely sustainable practices, i am optimistic. we have a structural engineering 2050 initiative to make sure that we are looking for net carbon neutrality by 2050. we have a carbon calculator to

identify the carbon with the material being used and the american steel industry is very focused on that and making sure that we are doing this right and producing steel that is going to build the country and modernize the country in a very sustainable way, so absolutely there are many benefits to using american steel and i think your point is very well taken. host: out to the golden state, this is james in san diego. caller: good morning. i have a request -- i have a question that regards the funding. i want you to tell me how this applies to right to work states. these are good high paying union jobs that cannot be outsourced. how does that impact right to work states in this economy? you said no one is going to be left behind. if i don't belong to a union, how my going to get a job or if

i don't belong to a union, how is my company going to get some of this money after the president said these are high paying union jobs that cannot be outsourced? help me out with that one please. guest: i think there are opportunities all across the board. there are many opportunities with union labor and i think there are going to be opportunities with nonunion labor as well. i'm not sure i can speak specifically to provisions in the legislation about union work, but i do think you were going to see examples across the board. you will see people in all 50 states that have opportunities to work under this legislation, in a variety of different disciplines, some of which have more union labor than others, but i do think you will see opportunities across the board. host: last call, this is shirley

from arkansas. caller: he gave it to the immigrants. host: what is your question? caller: what is going on in this country shouldn't be. host: that is shirley from pennsylvania. let me give you one more question from twitter. we were talking about the justice 40 initiative, and you are talking about some of the efforts there and that this is going to be built into some of these infrastructure spending. a question on -- a question on your trades. how do civil engineers get involved in social equity and social justice? guest: it starts with the planning side of projects and making sure we are planning and designing the right projects and

engaging the community. in the past, there have been instances where projects have been planned and signed but did not engage in community and disconnected from the communities and left behind disadvantaged communities. there is a recognition now that we need to make sure that we are being inclusive and putting together diverse teams. we want diverse teams that represent the communities involved and we are trying to attract more diversity into the engineering profession. we are petitioning a number of coalitions to do that as well. we have a new diversity and best practices guide that was put up with in the last month with some new videos and we do an awful lot of trading on this -- training on this. we need to start with more diverse engineers that need to engage in the community and we do have criteria on how to do

this, to make sure that we are doing the right projects and then making sure that we are doing this projects right. there is an enormous important role for civil engineering, rn info structure plays a huge role in our ability to engage everybody in providing transportation that people need to get to work, clean water, we have the issue with lead pipes and we have some money to address that. that is much as we need or would like to see, but a step in the right direction. it is recognizing that we need to have more diverse teams that are operating our infrastructure as well as designing and planning it. there is a lot that civil engineers can do. our code of ethics is a strong part of what we do in the civil engineering profession. we know it is important and we know that we have a much stronger profession when we are

more diverse and inclusive. host: asce.com is the website for the american society of civil engineers. tom smith, we will see you down the road. guest: thank you. host: up next on this sunday morning, time for you to lead the discussion. it is our open forum, asking you to call in on any public policy or political or state issued you want to talk about -- issue you want to talk about. phone lines are split the usual way. (202)-748-8000 for democrats. republicans, (202)-748-8001. independents, (202)-748-8002. we will get to your calls after the break. ♪ >> tonight on q and day, -- on q&a.

a discussion with -- on their book, the original meaning of the 14th amendment, which they insist has been widely misinterpreted by liberal and conservative judges. >> many of the criticisms made of our founding generation are valid. many of them are overblown. the seeds of liberty were planted at the founding by the declaration of independence and eventually harvested, but the rest of our constitutional history is about the story of the development of those seeds into a full-blown -- as my colleague says -- liberation movement. >> the power to make the world all over again, that is exactly what the abolitionists and republicans who followed in their footsteps did with the 14th amendment. >> two professors tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span's q&a. you can listen to q&a and all of our podcasts on the new c-span now app.

>> you can be a part of the national conversation by participating in c-span's studentcam competition. your opinion matters. if you are a high school student, we are asking you to create a five to six minute documentary that answers the question, how does the federal government impact your life? your documentary must show supporting and opposing points of view on federal policies or programs that affect you and your community using c-span video clips. c-span's studentcam competition awards 100,000 dollars in total cash prizes and a shot at the winning -- at the grand prize of $5,000. entries must be received between january 20, 2022. for rules and tips, visit our website at studentcam.org. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are handing the reins

of this program over to you our viewers. it is our open forum, or reopen the phones to allow you to call in on any public policy or political or state issue you want to talk about. the lines are yours for the next 25 minutes or so. democrats, (202)-748-8000 is the number. republicans, (202)-748-8001. independents, (202)-748-8002. some news from overseas from the top 21 -- cap 21 climate change summit that has been -- cop21 climate change summit that has been held. two dozen countries struck an agreement and that intensifying global efforts to fight climate change by calling on governments to return next year with stronger plans to curb their planet warming emissions and urging wealthy nations to at least double funding to protect poor nations from the hazards of a hotter planet. the architects of the agreement

hoped it would send a powerful signal to capitals and corporate board rooms around the globe, that more ambitious action on climate change is inevitable, which could in turn empower civil society groups and lawmakers working to shift countries away from burning oil and natural gas and coal to energy in favor of cleaner sources. many critics of the deal insist that it failed to meet the moment in a year of deadly heat in canada, devastating floods in germany and new york and reading wildfires in siberia. that is the story from the new york times today. the washington post, one of their stories is the latest news survey on joe biden's job approval. here is the chart, including the online edition, showing joe biden's job approval is reaching new lows on his handling of the coronavirus pandemic. he is at 47%.

41% when it comes to his handling of the presidency overall. 39% on the economy. you can see those numbers in the 50's and 60's and all three categories earlier this year, back in the spring of this year. you can see how those numbers have declined over the past couple of months. some of the stories leading the major newspapers this morning, but we are asking you where you want to lead this discussion and our open forum. roy from florida, independent, you are up first. caller: hello. host: go ahead. caller: i watch your program regularly and this is the first time i was able to get through and i thank you very much for taking my call. i have a general comment. i listen to these guests you have on, and this engineering

fellow was the last one. i wondered what kind of hands-on engineering experience he had, and can they answer questions either with a yes or a no? they dance around and they use what is now called language arts that is taught instead of english in the schools apparently, and you don't really get a direct answer out of them. they are pushing their particular political bent i assume. i would love to see or hear or some straightforward old-fashioned kind of language, when you ask a question, ask a direct question and expect a direct answer. by the way, my dad was an engineer. i am 84 now.

that was a long time ago when an engineer was very respected and i have a son who is an engineer and another one who is involved in the same kind of activity. host: what kind of work could you go into? caller: i was a businessperson. i had resorts and retail business with property, and i did a lot of consumer advocacy work. i've been pretty well tuned in to consumer activity that has been going on recently, and people just don't understand when they are being hustled. host: that is roy from florida.

once every 30 days, we would love to hear from you once every 30 days. sean in colorado, republican. what is on your mind? caller: i'm just calling about the two bills, the disastrous bills the democrats have lined up. they call it infrastructure where 10% is actual hard infrastructure, going to roads and bridges and it is just a socialist disaster. they should concentrate on the people that the gas prices -- the inclusion -- the inflation. they are so out of touch and they're just dragging this country over a cliff and it is a socialist disaster. we are going to be like venezuela any day and i don't get it. when are they going to wake up? host: one of those two bills you referred to is about to become a law, being signed into law tomorrow, the infrastructure bill, formerly known as the

infrastructure jobs act of 2021 and president biden will be signing that into law tomorrow and we will be covering it here on c-span. we will find out a lot more in the week to come, what is going to be happening with that other bill. the build back better act reconciliation bill that we spent so much time discussion -- so much time discussing. landon's next from michigan, democrat. good morning. caller: yeah. build back better was started by the european leaders, and joe biden just piggybacked on that. cnn-span. i've been watching you guys for a long time now and all you guys do is reference the washington post and the new york times and they are proven biased democrat papers. host: i would suggest you watch more because we use a whole lot

of sources around here this morning. although the two sunday papers, they are national papers that are here in washington, d.c.. there is no washington paper that comes out on sunday and that is why i don't have that front-page for you but that is one of the more conservative papers in d.c. the washington post and they are times have a sunday edition and that is why i have those on my desk. caller: good one, you're an idiot. host: our next caller is from colorado, independent. caller: at looks to me like the elephant in the room is energy independence. host: what do you mean? caller: it looks to me like inflation, gas prices, food prices. a year ago, we had energy independence and we are no

longer energy independent and i think it is what is behind everything. host: jim in pennsylvania, republican. caller: big on this climate change but he drives around in his own private jet. i have no problem with that but my issue is who is paying for that jet fuel? if he is doing that, i have no issue but if we the taxpayers are doing it, we shouldn't have to do it will stop -- do it. host: who is doing a? caller: john kerry, the main guy talking about climate change. the president has the right but if we are paying for his jet fuel for his own private jet, i am dead against that. host: to john in virginia, republican. caller: good morning. i just had a quick questions, i was wondering if one of your liberal or democratic callers could answer.

if climate change is caused by humans, i remember years ago, i think it was in time magazine. i have read an article, where they could study the atmosphere in the last 2000 years or whatever and they said that long ago, there was way more carbon in the atmosphere than there is now. where did all of that carbon come from if the humans are causing it? the whole argument doesn't make sense. mother question is in the build back better plan. they keep talking about how they need this universal preschool, so the women can go back to work, because they said none of these women can afford to go to work because it is so expensive. can somebody explain why two years ago, all of these women were working under trump? when the unemploymenttrump? where did they did that's where

did they get daycare two years ago? stop and think and address any of these issues. host: that's john and virginia. our open phones are open. phone lines if you want to join, democrats 202-748-8000. republicans 202-748-8001. independent 202-748-8002. next story from yahoo! news. wisconsin's governor over the weekend put 500 national guard members on standby at that high-profile homicide trial of kyle rittenhouse. closing arguments expected monday. fatally shot two men and wounded a third during protests in kenosha following the police shooting of jacob blake. he is charged with intentional homicide, reckless homicide, and other charges and that august

25, 2020 shooting. new heaven -- new haven, connecticut. good morning. caller: good morning. i was going to talk about president biden's approval rating, but i do want to talk about that trial. i don't think it's right that they keep, more people are fascinated. he's doing the best that he can. people, stop calling democrats socialists. are you forgetting the trump presidency? a lot of people are not informed. it's just shameful, but i think biden is doing a decent job. i want to say something about that trial. host: before you do, you don't think people should keep doing ratings and job approval ratings for presidents? did you disapprove of them when

donald trump was president? caller: i have to honestly say that trump was one of the worst presidents we've had in the history of the country. he was not qualified to be president. it was praise god that he did not win again, but may i say something about that trial? host: go ahead. caller: that person killed those innocent protesters. he's going to be charged with possession of a weapon. it was illegal. and i have no separate si have no some of the for him. that's mine -- and i have no sympathy for him. that's my comment. host: gary, independent, good morning. caller: good morning, john. you probably don't recall, but just as covid was about to break

i had spoken to you about leaving the country. i have not left yet due to covid and several other circumstances, but i am still intending to do so. host: why were you going to leave the country, gary? remind us. caller: the trump presidency and hearing people talk about secession and blatant racism. at the country, and my view, is falling apart. it's just lost everything i've believed in. host: where you want to go? caller: i wanted to say something about inflation. while there is inflation going on, oil companies, which may be the chief driver, are raking in record profits. the country is feeling pain, large corporations should feel pain, too.

i'm a believer in free enterprise, but not in runaway capitalism which leads to dig territorial -- deterred dictate -- dictatorial. people don't know what socialism is. they think, what about norway? what about sweden? what about your own social security payments you are collecting as an individual? it's like everyone has lost their mind and there isn't any reasonable discussion anymore. i've always been moderate. i was a member of the democratic party for 54 years. on the 16th of august, i left the party and became an independent in connecticut. we call it unaffiliated voter. i still vote. and i will vote until i leave the country. but i just see it as a situation

as hopeless and so many areas i could point to. host: what country do you want to go to? caller: i have italian citizenship. i'm a dual citizen. host: that's gary in connecticut. keep us updated. you can call once every 30 days on this program. let us know as your plans continue. republican, good morning. caller: good morning. i'm concerned that this winter there's going to be a shortage of heating fuel and natural gas. they've cut the pipeline. the ports have been blocked. they spend shifting demand to electricity, but they have cut the production of new utility plants in this region. even though the prices have already gone up 40% or 50% for your electric and gas, etc., this is a time of very low demand. so i'm concerned that this

winter is going to be a cold, expensive, dark winter. host: what do you usually pay a month on your heating bill in connecticut? caller: $100 a month. to 500. host: 500 in the winter? caller: yes. host: are you budgeting for more this winter? caller: you have to sort of heat the house, lower the to butcher. 400 last month. go up -- lower the temperature. 400 last month. host: morgan, pennsylvania, democrat, good morning. caller: thank you for c-span. i wanted to comment on the rittenhouse case. just think if the police would have done their job and took a

rifle away from a 17-year-old who was illegally carrying one, these two men would be alive today. and you wonder why people call it white supremacy everywhere because if he would have been 17-year-old of color, they would have taken the gun from him right away. that's all i wanted to say about that. host: trance, omaha, nebraska. mcgrath, good morning. caller: i does want to say that the guy that was talking about diversity in engineering and stuff like that, a lot of these companies are saying that they are looking for diversity. but when us minorities, when us minorities get on these jobs in these engineering and jobs like that, and i'm trying not to be racist, but the caucasians that we are working with, they do not

like working with african-americans. they show us as with that as they are working with us and they do overt things. they are trying to get you out of these jobs. when you go to human resources, they listen to you but none of that rises to the level of. it has to be blatant things or blatant racism. host: what is an example of that in your own working life? caller: like a sick, i was at a job for almost -- like i said, i was at a job for almost 17 years. i was getting close to my retirement. they have been trying to get rid of me. they got of my chief engineer. when they fired the chief engineer, they brought in another lady. the day she walked in, she wrote me up. i have never had unsatisfactory performance. she wrote me up and one day they came in and told me i did not know how to start up a boiler

and i have been starting up boilers at that job for 17 years. they simply fired me. this is what goes on with black people all across the country on our jobs. we do our best to work with these people. we ignore all of the stuff they do to us. sooner or later, no matter how long we worked there the majority of us are going to, they are going to get rid of us out of the stops before we can retire and they will never let us be a part of their jobs. and that's what i wanted to say about working in america. they make sure that they let us know the date do not do not that they do not want us to work with them. -- that they do not want us to work with them. host: tammy in new york, independence, good morning. caller: i'm calling about the, we have an eviction. we've been looking at up -- we've been looking for a place to live and there are some

things for low income people out there, but i'm wondering what's going to happen. other places where you have to come up here in new york you have to make three times the amount of what the rent is and there's no way any low income people can afford this. host: that's tammy in new york. angela and miss it -- angela in massachusetts. caller: good morning. thank you for working, john. i have two points. i have been hanging close since over 50 years ago. i have no carbon footprint. the only time i use a dryer is implement weather. today, i am hanging my sheets out and pillowcases right now. and i would like to send all of those people in our government a package of close pins and a close line to see if they would

like to do as i do and i think i am saving a lot of money a year, probably $400 by not using an electric or gas dryer. number two, i am worried about rural america. propane gas is going to go up 59%. these people rely on propane. that is going to be the largest increase that we are going to have. it's really going to increase our oil supply in our gasoline. rural america, states like michigan, montana. these people rely on natural gas. that has been cut down. but the propane is what worries me. host: angela massachusetts. just a few minutes left in our open forum. an op-ed on the opinion page of today's washington post. it is by mitch mcconnell.

the headline on his piece as democrats leave the supreme court alone, the minority -- the minority leader writing draft report that was recently reaped -- released was an attempt to appear moderate while doing radical things. criticized the crudest form of court packing, the simple addition of seats. but given it to approving discussion of another idea that is barely less radical canceling justices life tenure. do not be fooled. even as the political left tries to spin the cancellation of life tenure as a halfstep back from an even crazier opening bid, term limits would still be institutional vandalism. if a republican eminence ration came anywhere near flirting with such a proposal, the outrage

from liberals would have been deafening. federal judges for life. if you want to read more, his piece appearing in today's washington post. hazel, ohio, republican, good morning. caller: good morning. my comment is administration and resident wants to give over 400,000 dollars to people coming in across the border illegally instead of passing it out among veterans that served in world war ii, korean war, vietnam wars are people complaining about not being able to fill their tanks with gas. it is a sin way this government wants to give money to illegals rather than giving it back to the american public where it deserves to be given and should be given. that's my comment and thank you. host: chris, south carolina, independent, last caller here in our open phone segment. caller: i'd like to address the

deal on the infrastructure, especially the vote. i was a concrete pump operator for years, i'm retired now. but most of that money doesn't go to the project. it goes to the administration of the projects, a demonstration of the money. things like mass transportation and everything else. that's been the whole problem. the funds have been getting from the road projects for years like social security getting robbed. it's all the same thing. host: stick around for a second. so on this issue of where the money goes and money not directly going to concrete and that sort of thing, we talked about the infrastructure bill and it being signed into law tomorrow. we are covering it on c-span. where that money is going, brookings report took a look at

what happens next now that the bill is becoming a law. in the report which was released last week, this is what brookings wrote in their analysis. at public sector much -- must grow to manage its new level of investment in the bill. all three levels of government must the ready to hire budget experts and various construction workers and skilled trades people and environmental engineers and so on. human resources apartments need to grow in order to make all the hires. meanwhile, public agencies will be competing for scarce talents with the private sector. in terms of what you've seen in the work you've done, how much do you think actually makes it down to the final product in terms of building of new roads? caller: if we are lucky, one third. the rest of it, i'm telling you

right now. ok, it's like whenever we redo a bridge that needs to be done, or a roadway, there's two or three years worth of environmental impact studies and all this other garbage for a road that already exists just to replace the roads surface. because they have to be ground up and, oh, what are we going to do with this and what are we going to do with this and becomes where you are waiting for years for projects to come forward and then there's the changes. people bid low because they know there will be changes in the project on the specs so it's no longer under contract. it becomes free money. i see it all the time. i used to see it constantly. changes in the engineering specs. oh, we want to change this aspect of it. so now the contract is gone and

there's free money. the majority of the money is wasted. i've watched it for years. concrete? i tell you another thing. the cleanup and the amount of environmental impact garbage that they put on concrete which comes out of the ground is ridiculous. the amount of money they spend on that, it's terrible. i'm sorry. it's the usual government waste of money. host: less color in this -- last caller, but stick around. we will be joined once again by former acting cdc director dr. richard besser discussed the latest on covid-19 vaccinations and boosters and recent developments or new drug therapies. the ground. we will be back. ♪ >> this week on the c-span

network come both chambers of commerce are in -- both chambers of congress are in session. nancy pelosi delayed a vote on the bill. the delay came at the request of some moderate democrats who wanted the congressional budget office to analyze the bill. on tuesday at 10 a.m. eastern, homeland security secretary oversight hearing before the senate judiciary committee. secretary mayorkas tested positive for covid-19. also at 10:00, lives on c-span.org and c-span now app, security experts from the white house, homeland security and the fbi will testify house oversight and reform committee. build resilience against cyber threats. wednesday at 10:00 a.m. eastern. for confirmation hearings,

confirmed she will be the first woman to serve in this capacity. the committee will also take up other nominations. at 10:30 a.m. eastern on c-span.org, a virtual meeting of the house appropriations subcommittee to discuss the u.s. role in covid vaccine equity. you can watch our full coverage on c-span now, our new mobile video app. it over to c-span.org -- head over to c-span.org for scheduling information. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. >> what impact will the texas abortion law have on communities and families? how's judiciary committee asks pro-choice and pro-life advocates that question.

online at c-span.org or watch full coverage on c-span now, our new video app. >> nasa, spacex, crew2 astronauts have returned. they will answer questions during a news conference. watch at 9:15 a.m. eastern. >> washington journal continues. host: dr. richard besser is back with us as we take somewhat again this sunday morning to book us on the coronavirus pandemic. he is the former director of the cdc. i wonder if you could start with the news from friday that the food and drug demonstration will

no longer have an acting commissioner. we found out president biden is set to nominate for that commissioner post. as somebody who was an acting director, what difference this that make having the senate confirmed head of an agency that played such a big role amid the covid pandemic? guest: first, thanks for having me back on. i love coming on to take questions and to engage in conversation. i think it's really important and i think is long overdue. have you seen that as you seen over the last few years, there have been good cool decisions that the food drug ministers and have had to make around vaccines -- food drug administration have had to make around vaccines. there's new drugs that are being considered for treating covid. it is very important that individuals in that role has

confidence of the american people and for that to take place, the has to be tough questions asked. the has to be a few credentials. he had been in this role before. he was the half that head of the fda for a short. -- for a short time under the obama ministration. to ask his perspective on a variety of things. to ensure that the fda would be able to ensure that our drug and medical device products continue to be the safest in the world. host: did your paths cross after the obama administration? guest: i was it abc news at the time. i was a medical editor. i met him several times and that role as a journalist, not as someone at cdc.

i liked him very much. i was, he should be selected for that role. but i talked to him more about his priorities. host: one decision that is being debated is booster shots, non-immunocompromised people under the age of 55. should everybody get a booster shot? should it be recommended? where you stand on that? >> i got mine was on thursday along with my flu shot and i encourage everyone to get their flu shots. i do think we will get to a point where boosters are recommended for everyone who has been vaccinated. the good news is that the data shows for people under the age of 65, the vaccines remain incredibly effective in preventing hospitalization and death. the data also shows that over

time the ability to protect you from getting a mild infection, moderate infection does down significantly. i don't want to underplay the impact of those mild to moderate infections. in terms of disease transmission, i think they are important. but also the individual. a couple people in my family have had what would be called a mild to moderate infection. for many people, there is a loss of taste, loss of smell, cough and fever that persists, fatigue the can persist. i think over time we will see a recommendation that everyone gets a booster, but in terms of the review and i watched the review of the fda and cdc. the biggest focus is whether the vaccines, which were intended to prevent major infection and

except for people over the age of six to five, most studies showed they provide significant protection. -- 65, most studies showed they provide significant protection. think that's important because the protection is lower. before we get further into it, i want viewers to know that our foundation was founded by robert wood johnson that was one of the leaders of johnson & johnson. we own significant stock in that company. there's is no connection between us and j&j now. host: i appreciate you doing that when you come on to have these conversations. dr. richard besser is with us until the top of the hour. if you want to join the conversation, we are taking your phone calls. if you leave in eastern or central, 202-748-8000. if you lived in the mountain or pacific, 202-748-8001.

go ahead and start calling in. a low with your work, you are a general pediatrician. you see patients weekly in new jersey. i wonder your thoughts on the vaccination efforts for kids under the age of 12. how is that going? what are you seeing in the past weeks? guest: i think this is exciting. as a pediatrician to able to offer to families who want it, a vaccine for children five through 11 is huge. while, thankfully, covid is less severe in young children, i don't want to underestimate the impact that it has had. over 8000 children and that eight that -- in that age range that is been hospitalized. there have been millions of children who have been infected. in of -- in addition to that,

just the stress, the emotional stress of having to adjust your life to avoid infection. having to limit the contact you might have with a loved grandparent who you can help. --who you can hug. the vaccine has been authorized for children five through 11. i think there is going to be millions who get this before the christmas or winter holiday. -- holiday.. judge and that parents that have all of their children vaccinated. that, i think is absolutely terrific. host: what about families with children, newborns four years old? when should they expect a vaccine to be available if they so choose to get their child

vaccinated in that age group? guest: those studies are underway. hear from pfizer, the furthest along. it'll be the new year before you see two to five. that's assuming that the data shows that the vaccines are safe and effective. they are looking at much lower doses of the vaccine and younger children. what we are seeing in the studies is that a lower amounts of material is sufficient to give children five through 11 significant protection against covid. what we are seeing in terms of uptake, about one third of parents were eagerly waiting for vaccines. made appointments before the decision was made so that they could get in. about one third of the parents are saying i want to wait. i want to wait until the vaccine

is been given. -- given to millions of children so that i feel comfortable in terms of the safety. one third are saying no, i don't want to go that route. i think we are going to see movement in all of those groups over the next six months as people see what children are able to do once they have been vaccinated. they see the relief on the faces of parents who no longer have to worry the same way about covid. host: dr. richard besser with this for the next half-hour until the end of our program. i know you enjoy chatting with the callers. linda, ohio, republican, good morning. caller: good morning. i hope you are well. i pray every day that we get president trump back in there. we did not have any problems with him because he was totally checked. nobody checked the bidens. somebody paid some money off and he reads everything that he talks about. host: what you think about the

covid response? what concerns you the most? caller: i will not give my children or if they are young or young. they are getting paid off and felt she -- this is the worst thing they have ever done. host: that is linda in ohio. children and vaccines, during the debates the fda debate over these vaccines for five through 11 years old. if -- there was a moment during that debate that we aired live on c-span that concerned a lot of parents. it was a statement by fda advisory member of harvard university and his comments about they will know more once

they start giving the vaccine. >> it's a very sort of personal choice. i have a child that was a transplant recipient, i would want to be able and there are certainly kids who. the question of how broadly to use it is a substantial one. i know it's not our question and i know we are, but i do think it is a relatively close call. it really is going to be a question, we are never going to learn about how safe the vaccine is unless you start giving it. that's just the way it goes. that's how we found out about rare complications of other vaccines. and i do think we should vote to

approve it. host: dr. richard besser on that comment. we will never know how safe it is until we start giving it. is that concerning? guest: challenges with any treatment, whether you are talking about a new drug or talking about a new vaccine. vaccine trials, drug trials are done in thousands of people. but until they are given to millions of people, you won't be able to detect something that is extremely rare. if something occurs one in a number in that one in a million times, you are not want to see that into sub has been given millions of times. so you always want to keep that in mind and say ok, what's the benefit here? here, what you see is that there have been thousands of hospitalizations in children five through 11. there were nearly 100 deaths in

an age range where it's so uncommon to see any children die. you see millions of cases. you say, well what is the potential risk? typically, for vaccine in children, you will see the numbers of children receiving vaccines that were done here. this was given to several thousand children to look and see, do they get an immune response or do they see any side effects? just like vaccines were given to adults, it was not until the moderna vaccine was given to millions was there a signal that in rare circumstances, there could be a rare condition called myocarditis. thankfully, what they see is that the people that get myocarditis from the covid vaccine have all recovered. you don't want anybody to have to go through that, but if you are saving lives, preventing

more cases of myocarditis from the vaccine then you are causing, then you weigh that. i fully understand. to say you know what, i want to wait until the vet that should until the vaccine had until the vaccine is given zillions of kids before i give the vaccines my child. you never want to start down the path of giving the vaccine to means of children if there's any suggestion that there was going to be a risk. that's why the often vaccines and drugs are developed for adults and then you see movement toward giving them to children -- younger and younger children. host: this is donna, good morning. caller: i got a couple of questions. one is why do not of the doctors that come on your show talk about natural immunity? i'm that i have been out wearing no mask.

until 2020 and i went into stores that required a mask because i take care of my health. i.e. right. i eat vegetables -- i.e. right. i eat vegetables. i take vitamins a, b, c and d. why do you not talk about that? host: let's talk about it. natural immunity. guest: i think the things you talk about in terms of doing the things that are good for your health are critically important. they are important whether or not we are in the middle of a pandemic. eating right, exercising, getting a good nights sleep. of those things are very important. there's another issue in terms of natural immunity that i do think is important to talk about and that is whether people who get a particular infection are fully protected from getting it again. we know for some infections and

diseases, that is the case. if you had measles as a child, you are protected from getting measles again. if you had chickenpox as a child, you are protected from getting chickenpox. so that is an important issue to think about. what's been seen right now with covid is that people who have had covid once our editing increased risk of getting covid again compared to somebody who has been fully vaccinated. that's why the vaccine continues to be recommended for people even if they have had a covid infection. that's not the case for every infectious disease. if you have had it once, you can get a blood test to show that you had it and that's sufficient. as a that as a doctor working in health care facilities, that is one of the ways you can prove you get that -- that you had measles. covid, that does not appear to be the case. as more information is learned, if it turns out there is

significant, so that sufficient protection, i would think the move would be you could prove you've been infected or vaccinated. right now, the data shows you are more at risk. host: this is john. good morning. caller: good morning. it's a pleasure to hear your thoughts. my question today is many are concerned about the pfizer and moderna vaccines being hastily developed. my understanding is those two vaccines are based on new technology and were already developed and what happens is when the coronavirus, covid-19 came around, they had to determine what part of that had to be in the vaccine to make it effective. not that i explained that correctly. but i think if that were

discussed more, perhaps some people would understand the vaccine itself was already developed just waiting for the agent to protect against the disease. guest: you explained that really well. i will dive into it a little bit more. first off, i think it is absolutely incredible and miraculous that we have three vaccines after a new virus. i think we got into a little trouble early on in terms of some of the words we used to talk about the development of vaccines. the name warp speed, i think the intent was to say no stone would be left unturned. every step would be taken to get vaccines to people as safely, as

effectively, as quickly as possible. technology for these mrna vaccines which is pfizer and moderna vaccines had been in development for a couple of decades. this is one of the examples of our tax dollars at work. dollars that are given to the institute itself. uses to help technology. this was used to develop technology for the ark -- mrna vaccines. when this covid virus was detected and the genetics of it were posted, they very quickly could insert a piece of that to tell the vaccine what to protect against. that was absolutely incredible. that's what led to these being

developed so quickly. the technology though, was not something that was developed quickly. that was the painstaking research that took decades to do. host: vaccine misinformation. there's an interesting moment this past week on that issue. it was the ceo of pfizer. he was at an event. this is what he had to say about vaccine misinformation. >> there are two groups of people. they're the people who are vaccinated. both of them are afraid. those that are getting the vaccine, they are afraid of the disease. and they believe that people not getting vaccinated, they are increasing the risk. they are mad. those that don't get the

vaccine, they are mad with the people pressuring them. and both i understand. very good people. decent people. they have a fear. they don't want to take chances. but there is a very small part of professionals which they circulate on purpose misinformation so that they will mislead those that have concerns. they are criminals because they literally caused millions of lives. host: your thoughts on those comments? guest: i think he's right. there are people who are intentionally circulating false information to help further spread divide in our nation.

to spread people's concerns and increase people's concerns about these products. i think it's quickly important that everyone has the opportunity to get their questions answered. and i encourage everyone before deciding to get a vaccine to talk to someone they trust. talk to a trusted health provider. get your questions answered. we've seen over time that the number of people within the group, i will never get a vaccine, has gone down as people have gotten their questions answered. some people are going to say, you know what. i've heard you. i have my questions answered. i still don't want this vaccine. and then that's an individual's choice. the challenge with that though is from a public health perspective, there may be things that people who are not vaccinated are not able to do and that is one of the challenges that we are seeing. people say wow, you should be able to limit what i do because

i don't get vaccinated. well, this is something that we've always been able to do. we've always been able to take public health measures in the interest of the general good. for instance, we require children to be vaccinated to go to school as long as they don't have a medical reason they can't get vaccinated. we do other things from a public health standpoint. we close restaurants that are felt to be unsafe to eat at. we don't give someone a choice to say you know what, i don't want to. we shut down swing pools of refined state don't have the right level of careen. we don't let someone decide, -- right level of chlorine. we don't let someone decide, i want to swim in their pool anyway. it is something that is required for certain travel globally.

certain vaccines that you are required to have. it isn't something new, but there's always been disagreements about whether or not we should allow public health to do that. it is a society we said there are times where the jerk -- where the general good overrides an individual's choice. when that happens, there may be limitations and we are seeing that right now. there are limitations around what some people can do. host: a big day for college -- from cop -- a big day for callers from connecticut. good morning. caller: good morning. i was wondering if you could talk a little bit about the numbers of the people that have died from the vaccine and the over 800,000 people who have been left with side effects of the vaccine. senator johnson just had a hearing that the fda was invited to attend and i think chose not

to. it was many people who were discussing the pretty extensive side effects that they have had from the vaccines. thank you. guest: one of the most important things that is done after a vaccine is licensed is putting in place systems to look at side effects, look at potential loss-of-life and ensure that there are not things being seen there that were not the tactic in the initial trials. so far, we have not been seen that from these vaccines. we have not been seen long-term side effects from these vaccines. like most vaccines, there's a certain percentage of people who experience a sore arm, fever, some body aches. but one of the things that is done, anyone who has died following receipt of a vaccine,

those cases are investigated to determining, was it from the vaccine or was it something that was coincidental? so far we have not been seen deaths from these vaccines which is very important. host: gary in california, good morning morning. you're next. caller: good morning. dr. richard besser, a lot of people have vaccine hesitancy and they think it's a conspiracy about the government. these same people will shove botox into their face all day. host: what your question gary? caller: how do you get people that won't be vaccine hesitant? guest: i think vaccine hesitancy is something that we need to address and recognize that people are hesitant for various reasons. some people are hesitant because of the experience they've had with the health care system or

with public health. people are hesitant because of concerns that we've already talked about here, about how quickly vaccines were developed to meet this global public health threat. and i think there are a number of ways to approach this. you have to recognize your not going to see everyone of the country say i am going to get vaccinated. that has never happened with any vaccine that we have seen or with any issue in our nation. if you treat people with respect and you recognize that everyone is looking to do the best thing for their health, the health of their family, the health of their community, you meet people where they are and listen, truly listen and strive to understand where the concerns are coming from. you will help people get to the point where they say yeah, i do want to get vaccinated. one of the biggest challenges that i see is around the issue

of disinformation where information is absolute false, that is created to stir and increase distrust and lifesaving therapies. that is one of the biggest challenges we face as a nation because of the way information is shared these days and the echo chamber, social media, twitter, facebook, other sites that are less visible. you see misinformation, just absolute falsehoods that are spread and people don't recognize that. that's why i encourage people, go to a trusted health professional. unfortunately, there are millions of people in our nation who don't have a doctor to turn to. i would encourage you to go to your state wellsite -- state website. there are a number of medical sites that are very good.

johns hopkins, mayo clinic have very good sites. ask your questions and listen. i see that in the clinic all the time. i have parent to ask questions and they made a side note, they don't want to get the vaccine this time. but maybe the next time they come in, they have moved on that. they've decided to go ahead and get the vaccine. host: we sometimes have covid treatments. this headline from economist from last week, new antiviral drug big turning point in the covid-19 pandemic. the treatment viral drugs we are talking about here from merck and pfizer pill form. guest: i think this is exciting. so far, we saw the data brought by the company. both companies say they will be submitting these drugs to fda for consideration very soon. when i think about the pandemic

and what's going to bring it, if not an end, but bring it down to something that is just a normal infectious occurrence in our society. it will be having safe and effective vaccines for everyone and we are getting very close to that. and having safe and effective widely available treatments and we are getting closely -- and we are getting close to that. once you have those things in place, then i think most of us will be comfortable getting back to doing all the things that we want to do with less restriction . the challenge that i see right now in terms of these drugs that are coming forward is that like drugs for a lot of viral infections, you have to start the treatments very early. for these drugs, it's within the first three to five days of symptoms. in order to accomplish that, we have to do a much better job at getting tested widely -- testing

widely available. if somebody is infected, they can know the first day or the second day. making it easy for people to get these drugs. a lot of people don't have health care provider. without a health care provider, it can be very hard to get medications quickly. making sure there's enough drug supply and getting into every community. what we have seen with the rollout for a lot of vaccines and new drugs is to get to a lower income community, often committees of color, much later than they get to appear committees. that's just not right. we need to make sure that any -- much later than they get to wealthier committees. that's just not right. host: if a covid pill is in the

pipeline, how do you explain the importance of the vaccine to people who may be on the fence about that? if i can take a pill down the road? do you think it might limit the people who might take the vaccine who are on the fence? guest: it may. i think they are both important. as a pediatrician and public-health person, i think prevention is always a way to go. if you can prevent infection altogether, that will do a lot more. it will help ensure the infection is not spreading within a family, within a community. it is the most cost-effective way to go. it is often the safest way to go. for those who have said i don't want to get a vaccine or more importantly those people who have medical conditions, a immune problems where the

vaccine, they got it but it does not give them the full protection, they may have the opportunity to have a treatment available early so that if they get the infection, it could save their lives. that's really important. we lost last month general colin powell who was fully vaccinated but has an immune condition. going forward, it would be wonderful for individuals like him, for individuals who have significant medical conditions to know that if there is any something that looks like covid, they need to get tested right away because there could be a treatment to save their lives. host: just five minutes left. mark has been waiting. good morning. caller: good morning. am i on? yes, it is for dr. richard besser. i am referring to the question by the woman who asked a

question about natural immunity. nih funded a nationwide study of natural immunities to covid-19 long before any study was done of any longitudinal study of desk study and the study -- and the study concluded in january 2021 and they found natural immunity to covid-19 has been found to be strong, durable, long-lasting, t cells, antibodies remain stable. it can handle variants and 98% of people post contraction had the full range of t cells, antibodies necessary for

effective immune response to covid. host: do you mind if i ask? have you heck of a? caller: -- host: have you ever had covid? caller: i don't know. host: have you taken the vaccine? you don't have to answer. the caller's comment on natural immunity. guest: i want to make sure that we are all talking about the same thing. there's the immunity from having had an infection. that's supposed infectious immunity. -- that post infectious immunity. if you take certain vitamins and you take good care of your health and you eat well, the protection because you have a raboso that's robust immune system. those are very different things.

i would not encourage anyone to think that eating right, exercising, getting a good night sleep and eating vitamins is going to protect you from covid. it won't. it may improve your outcomes because your immune system is working well, but is not going to protect you from covid or measles or chickenpox or the flu. the other issue i think is important and it's one that will continue to be studied and that's what level of protection do you get from a covid, if you had covid, if you had that infection westmark and of the things they're looking at is that that matter how the beer you're infection was? are you someone who is infected and had no symptoms, if you are someone who was infected and hospitalized. what if you got one of the treatments? could that affect your immune response question mark those questions i don't think our

answered. there is some level of protection, but at what i'm seeing is that that level of protection is not as great as it would be if you also got vaccinated. and so, the current recommendations, which i support, are even though people who have covid -- who had covid should get vaccinated. host: marietta, georgia. thanks for waiting. caller: two questions. i'm under, i'm of the thinking that repetitiveness of the vaccine, the number of times that you get it is a great benefit of the second shot and the booster. in other words, not equal to the vaccine itself. but just a matter of getting it petted of lee really makes this vaccine work -- repetitively

makes this vaccine work well. maybe we could take a watered-down pill once a month. if this is true, why aren't we putting this out all over the news and saying if you get multiple exposure to the vaccine , it greatly enhances the vaccine itself. thank you sir. host: pill form versus why inject a vaccine and the repetitive nature of the boosters. guest: pill versus injectable, it's wonderful when we are able to get pill form or liquid form vaccines just because so many people hate needles. that would be a wonderful way to go. i remember early in my career when the polio vaccine we gave kids was liquid.

and that was terrific. the issue in terms of multiple doses, this is something for a lot of vaccines. the pediatrician, when i think about vaccinating children we talk about what's called a primary series which is the initial doses. booster shots the kids get later in life. for instance, whooping cough we will give a vaccine and that we will give boosters later on. for the measles vaccine, we give one at one year and again before kids start school at four years. we see that those secondary doses and someone who has already received the vaccine before gives you a much higher level of response. so there's a lot that is being learned about that. with the j and j vaccine, what's been learned is really what's most effective is a two dose vaccine. over time, there's going to be

additional learning in terms of how frequently people need to how frequently people need to get vaccinated. depending on what this virus does, we may be done with it, but it is not done with us. host: we will ended their. -- and it there. dr. besser, rwjf.org. that will do it for our program today. we will be back tomorrow at 7:00 a.m. eastern, 4:00 pacific. have a great sunday. ♪ [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

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