corporate america's social justice cam, it is argued culture is holding onto woke culture to try to increase profits. watch book tv every sunday on c-span2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at booktv.org. a new mobile video app from c-span. c-span now. download today. ♪ washington journal continues. host: we are back with patrick, the president and ceo of the driving force institute for public engagement and he is here with us to talk about efforts to promote civics and u.s. history education. good morning.

>> thanks for having me. tell us about your background and what is the driving force institute for public engagement. guest: in terms of my background i started off 25 years ago. i was on c-span for the first time and after i left capitol hill i moved into education policy and advocacy for a wide range of organizations. two small state-based nonprofits and how we can improve public education. the industry was born years ago. we working with the woodrow wilson foundation and had done a national survey building a sense of what they knew about american history and recognized at the time we didn't know very much. so for the last few years driving force institute has been focused on how can we make the teaching and learning of american history more interesting and more relevant

and have been doing this in partnership with a number of organizations across the country in really looking at how we can create short form videos, provocative two minute videos about people and moments in history we may not have learned in school, but are essential to understanding our country and understanding our history and our future. host: this may seem like an obvious question, but why do we need to know more about civics and history in the united states? guest: it would be easy to simply say those who don't understand history are doomed to repeat it. i think we as a country continue to grapple with issues and ideas that can quite honestly tear us apart. it's just important to understand where all of this came from to understand how this nation was born and understand the good, the bad and the ugly over the last 200 plus years. we look at the work of driving

forces in organizations around the country. we talk about understanding history, it's really getting individuals to begin to think like a story. to ask questions and to push back and not accept what they were given. to really give in and try to understand beyond the surface what it is they are learning. i've got to high school students for children. back in january my ninth grader had come to me and want to know what was going on in the capital. this was on january 6. i'm trying to figure out where she getting this from. she's getting it from tiktok. that i think further shows we talk about the power of video, of the importance of reaching young children, it's not can happen in a guest lecture, perhaps not even in a classroom. particularly as you see student

activity being shaped, young people acting based on what they believe is their history realize how important it is. >> whose responsibility is it to teach civics and history? is it the school's responsibility, the government? is it the parents responsibility? guest: i think it is a joint responsibility between adults and schools. i don't think people want to say the federal government should be instituting a national curriculum on history or civics or social study or government. but i think we all recognize if we look at states across the country we can see we don't do enough to teach history. typically american history is taught once across the average life experience of most students. we see parents have the opportunity to enhance that instruction to make sure there

kids are taking those classes. when you look at the data you can see colleges and universities across the country if -- that students aren't majoring in american history anymore. the driving force institute is based in south carolina and when you work with students, you understand how important it is. our students want to understand the good, the bad and the ugly history. they may not necessarily be majoring in it. but they are key parts of the experience that comes from their parents, their teachers they had and from society. i think it's a joint effort. you can look to one entity to decide what we showed or should not be teaching. -- what we should or should not be teaching. host: you conduct a citizenship test via a poll amongst u.s. citizens. tell us about that and what you are finding out the results of. >> we used the practice question

, we did it really to see -- be mindful of the notion there is politics to everything. these are questions the federal government has developed for individuals to practice before the stand for the u.s. citizen chip test. -- citizenship test. the majority of americans are still going to fail the test. they are given 20 questions, 12 questions correct is a passing grade. these are not challenging questions. they are pretty basic and they are essential when we begin to think about what we do as a nation. the intent here is not to see if the average american can pass trivia night at a bar. it really is to get whether we are understanding as we dig deeper as we really look to disaggregate the data to understand where we fallen short when it comes to teaching history. we see if you look at the

results by age. 70% of americans under the age of 45 fail. that includes 77% of those who are non-college-educated. only 50% of americans can pass this test. by contrast if you look at those over the age of 65. we see similar discrepancies in terms of race where you have 51% of white or failing the exam and 72% of people of color are failing the exam. 64% of women are failing this basic test will only 51% of men. they should be a clarion call to all of us. there are some issues here both in what we teach and how we teach american history that make it clear that all of us have to

do a better job. host: i want to bring up some of the issues you put on your poll and the u.s. citizenship test. let the viewers know how americans dead. only 17% knew the u.s. constitution was written in 1787. 27% correctly stated benjamin franklin was a u.s. diplomat and less than half knew that woodrow wilson was president during world war i. 51%, a little more than half knew the nine justices serve on the supreme court. so overall the percentage of americans who could pass the u.s. citizenship test was only 42%. what do we do to change those numbers? host: i think at the end of the day what you need to do is recognize that we need to

rethink how we are teaching american history. two years ago we did a survey will we talked high school students really getting a sense of why they weren't learning history. quite honestly boring and irrelevant to their lives and we see on the largest percentage of minority students in her schools , they are not seeing the connection to the way american history is taught. we largely look first we spent a semester focused on the founding of the country going up to the revolutionary war and then you come back after christmas break and begin to study the civil war and hopefully after student testing in april you get a little bit of world war ii. at the end of the day, we look at some of these pieces. look at the stats you just gave. when we began the survey, we ask that question about how many justices run the supreme court. we ask that a time when the united gates was tearing itself

apart over the justice kavanaugh nomination. in the years since that the number of americans despite president biden wanted you talk about expanding the court we still have half the country only knowing we have nine members. as we look at this, how can we teach american history in a different way. the way i learned from using dusty textbooks and i say this with all sincerity is the son of a presidential historian. the way we use books to teach present -- u.s. history isn't working. there was a study that came out that found for the average generation per year they were spending 2000 hours a day on youtube. in those we were there watching -- that's what we are keying in on. if you watch how young people consume information. the approach we've taken has created short videos, we look at provocative topics, individuals,

moments of history, things you may not of learned. and really using those in the hopes of creating a discussion, in some instances hoping going video rabbit hole. and others just giving tools to teach you so they can have a discussion beyond talking about white male land in their classroom. so we can really have a discussion on american history to determine not just the facts and figures, but to really understand what you put it as why this is important. that's the approach it's trying to take. host: we talk a lot about history. let's talk about civics. for our audience, define what civics are and why they should be a better known topic for students and adults. >> i would argue i think history should be better known topic. what we've done, of the

definition of civics is one with everyone you talk to has a different definition of it. i can talk to some folks who say it's the lifeblood of this nation, they look at civics in terms of activist civics. others say it is simply history told through progressive lens. i think when we talk about it in its true definition, i think you really start with american history. civics is the actions one can take once they learn that history. it's what we expect to see in terms of taking what we know from history and government and economics and really putting it to use and practice. host: viewers can take part in this great conversation about history and civics. we will open up regional lines. if you are in the eastern or central time zones, you can call 202-748-8000. if you are in the mountain or

pacific time zones, your number is going to be 202-748-8001. you can always text in questions with your opinion at 202-748-8003 and we are also on social media, on twitter @cspanwj and on facebook at facebook.com/c-span. how do we make the teaching and learning of history and civics relevant and interesting for students? guest: i think we need to make it more interesting. i also think when we look at the teaching of american history. we need to be more specific in terms of talking about the role women have played. they had a history back to the founding. often when we talk about the role, not just for african-americans.

we talk about the role of native americans. we also need to talk about the role of my people during the civil war. there are all sorts of stories we should be telling. we've been working with the kentucky valley education cooperative and developed a series of videos looking at the history and eastern kentucky. they feel are not cold. but also learning how they can use the class. for so long we had the last century we've had classrooms or teacher stand in front of a room , students are supposed to absorb that. we are really trying to do is how can we use these videos that

we are shared for free online. how do we use these free videos to start the discussions to help student start thinking about historians and ask questions that begin to also ask what else have i not learned as a result of a story that may have piqued our interest. host: let's let some of our viewers take part. we will start with chris from reston, virginia. caller: good morning. the divide in this country i think is based on we do not have a national standard. what i see is the self still raising the confederate flag in the north the union flag.

the south locally they teach them different perspectives. making of facts about the civil war. so how can we be united if we teach different history instead of national perspective. also i don't think it's important to know woodrow wilson was present during world war i or the court has nine justices. the number changed over time what's important to learn about gerrymandering, about equality. going back, what did we learn from history. why people are not changing. host: go ahead and respond.

guest: i think he raises a couple of very interesting points. it's easy for us to assume based on our own biases with different parts of the country are teaching and what they are learning and what becomes interesting as we look at a breakdown of these results, we surveyed 1000 individuals across the united states. the proper samples and all the demographics and what would surprise people i think is those in the south, the south was the second highest in terms of success after the northeast. those residents in the south when it came to history the opera from the midwest and the west. we can always say is this something we need to learn. it really becomes how we have the foundational building box -- building blocks. is it really important only half the almost half the country didn't know who our enemies were

during world war ii. you can say it's nitpicky, of course they know who we were generally fighting. can you really have an important discussion in a history class throughout japanese internment if the students in the classroom don't understand that japan was our enemy during world war ii. those of the sorts of things we are looking at. yes you can say is it important woodrow wilson was present during world war i. will yes, only think about all the issues over the last few years that have called into question woodrow wilson and is racism and misogyny and what that meant in terms of the foundation, the democratic party struck his name from buildings. when we talk about the work he did in terms of the league of nations and did that lead to the rise of what happened in europe later on, those are important questions to understand what

happened at what point and why. the measure is not simply who was president, it's understanding who was president, how did he get elected. when we look at the commonalities between woodrow wilson election and president trump's election. those are important discussions we should and need to be having in our classrooms. host: our next caller is lauren. good morning. caller: good morning. people can go back to do other things instead of being tied to the stupid gadgets. host: what you think? guest: i think it's interesting. i hear that argument a lot. what becomes fascinating we talk about the role of the internet and social media.

i think we are not to be able to get rid of social media and the people they use. the question is how do we use it better. how are we more effective at utilizing these technologies in these efforts. we see some successes and look at things like connie academy. -- at things like kahn academy. we can also look at how woefully unprepared our schools were to use technology in the classrooms. to go look at some charter schools. they are our children were not using laptops, they are not using ipads or tablets, everything they are teaching is on cell phones because it's one piece of technology that every middle school are in high school or is going to have. i think that becomes the question that we need to be asking.

college professors on our campus effectively use twitter and other social media and having students make presentations. at the end of the day, we get our information from social media. no one's getting a newspaper delivered to the driveway. the question is how do we use this for a better learning. host: your institute has established a set of criteria designed to help facilitate instruction. i want to tell us exactly what we are doing with this. what you're doing is supporting instruction for current history teachers for designing curriculum for traditional classrooms and out of school time environments and direct to consumer engagement. what do you mean by those. host: we are really -- guest: we

reach that point where it could be very expensive to buy textbooks and even more expensive to update those to better understand what we are talking about. the videos are not created in a vacuum. every video we create is created to address certain learning standards, every video was created in combination with some other titles. we released three new videos every wednesday that folks can find on there when -- folks can find there. we also produce materials for teachers so they can focus on high school but is also applicable to middle school teachers as well. they can use those materials in the classroom. how do you show two or three videos at a time and really use that anyway to start a discussion to launch a dialogue, to really develop more research. that's what we are talking about with the curriculum approach.

how do we empower teachers, how do we empower teachers to better use video and media in their classrooms. we sat there for 15 minutes in the dark -- 50 minutes in the dark. that's not how we consume that. we asked teachers to move beyond that and that came as a result of conversations with teachers around the country that recognize using them in the classroom was of great benefit. what they were doing was they were going in and pulling segments from drunken history and figuring out how to edit out the language so that something usable in their classroom. we are trying to get away with that. that can complement what they're learning in a --

particularly in the districts they can't necessarily update those materials. both the professional element they were creating. guest: a couple of -- host: a couple of social media followers want your opinion on how or if topic should be taught in american history classes. i will combine a couple of tweets here. one person wants to know how should what happened on january 6 be taught and the second one wants to know your position on the 1619 project and should that be taught. host: i've written and spoken on the first question quite a bit. i believe what happens on the sixth needs to be taught. i think you've -- i think you don't teach that, it's not the item but it provides teachers the avenue to bridge for the topics we need to talk about, allow them to talk about the war of 1812 and the burning of the

u.s. capitol, it allows them to talk about 1954 when they opened fire on the capital floor. it allows them to talk about people calling for the 25th amendment and what it is and when it has been used in the past. using it that way becomes enormously important and it's something we need to allow teachers to teach and i think that becomes the greatest challenge. that's educators across the country, too often they are afraid of the superintendent with a principal or someone in the community coming down. i think we have been able to allow teachers to teach, particularly those in a social studies classroom. with regards to crt -- the 1619 project, that becomes another important question for us. i think when you look at what americans know, you look at our

data and you can see 77% of people failed questions regarding the 1700s. so some of the founding's of our country. the 1619 project provide some interesting materials in the classroom. i could say the same about the 1776 report. i would argue both of those are an important piece and understanding what we should be teaching and how we should be teaching. i think there's no question we should be teaching the significance of 1619 in american history. i don't think that means we shouldn't be teaching about 1776. it really becomes how do we find that balance, how do we provide the materials and i think you can find videos in our collection. how do we provide that content in a way so teachers can provide

to students and have a robust informed discussion in their classroom in terms of what it means and whether that should be the priority moving forward and understanding what about the history in the 1776 report is something that should be part of a high school classroom, those are the discussions we need to have. host: i won't let you get away with not answering. we've had a lot of talk about critical race theory. we know it is not being taught in high schools, it's being taught at the college level. could be part of our curriculum? host: how you define critical race theory seems to vary based on the individual. i think we take it a very specific look in terms of our videos making sure we are telling the stories of people of color. we are not afraid to talk about the more controversial issues with regards to race in our nations history, whether it was

the good, the bad or the ugly side. what i worry about is look at the way we are trying to change the way we are teaching history. we are looking for things that deserve our attention. we look back in the last year where we've talked about moving a statue of abraham lincoln from washington, d.c. whether one likes the statue or not, one cannot avoid the fact that the great significance of the statue is not that we have a bronze of lincoln in our nations capital. i would argue the great significance is the speech that douglas gave as he was dedicating the statue. frederick douglass's speech in talking about lincoln in a way that many historians still can't grapple with that complexity. but frederick douglass's remarks at the time in terms of lincoln

and his impact on the nation are something we all should be studying. that becomes a key part is we look at this moving forward. host: let's talk to mark from fort myers, florida. good morning. caller: i want to thank them. i taught a north carolina for about 20 years as a history teacher and what i'm seeing is i think it's more so not replacing the textbook because reading seems to be an issue with kids. i'm going to debate your guest on that issue. we need to get the kids to read more because they can't read the content and are struggling with with regards to critical race theory discussion, i don't know if you necessarily need a curriculum to introduce the subject because you still have bad teachers who are still going

to be bad teachers. so maybe more so we should be looking to include more african-americans in the discussion and also maybe i haven't heard people rely on history teachers on the discussion and itself we talk about trusting the experts. host: i think his points are well taken. one of the reasons why video becomes so important is that simply how high schoolers are getting their information. it also allows us for those students that are struggling readers, for those who are english language learners, it allows them to teach the history we all believe is so important even if they don't necessarily have the vocabulary and comprehension to get it. i completely agree with the perspective in terms of our struggling leaders, that's a problem we have to address

before they had the fourth grade. once they hit middle school if they are not able to read it will be impossible -- to get to a reading level going forward. i applaud them as their efforts being a history teacher. we need to spend more time talking to teachers. when i talk about the content of driving forces created, all of that content, every video script, every video production, we actually create in partnership with current high school social studies teachers. we make sure the content is right, it is teachable and usable. because there is no substitute for a great teacher in the classroom. host: let's talk to diane. caller: good morning. i am a former college instructor your and i worked in the college

of social work and that for myself as a second career. my love of both history and politics seems to be the perfect intersection. the thing my students learn from me is if you don't know history then you can know what you're doing now. just current day examples. if you don't know history, you probably didn't really have an understanding my many in the black community have concerns with the vaccine because you would know about the tuskegee experiments, you also may not understand let's say the passion behind women's reproductive rights if you don't know the history and how long they fought to have autonomy of their own bodies. one of the best things i learned years ago was about helen keller. we all know she was blind and deaf and mute, but do we know

her influence on the americans with disabilities act. you can go forward if we don't understand what's behind us. i'm seriously considering getting my masters in education so that i can go back and teach history. guest: i completely agree with you. i look at a place like our university which is our home and more than about 65% of our students are women. half of our students are people of color. almost half of our students are must first -- our first generation. one of the most popular majors we have on campus right now is criminology. an incredible number of students see that opportunity. you can effectively teach criminology unless you're getting into the issues you are discussing, talking about history and government and civics in a way that they are looking at their own degrees and study.

and it's an important part of the undergraduate experience, i know it's important for those of us, but you're absolutely right. host: let's talk to joe from california. good morning. caller: thank you and good morning. i had one of the greatest opportunities being raised here. in sixth grade i had a parent or took us on a trip and we were able to go to the pyramids in mexico. there's very few people of color but understand there's pyramids here on the continent. i see myself as an indigenous american. i was raised in the middle of

america and i was raised here in compton. we also have this concept of the bible that brings history and life to the story we live here, that we are able to see what has happened here, and unable to sit here today. i've also written a book for my family to express my visions of what happened after 9/11. it's expressed through relationship, i'm using the second act of the bible based upon his we experienced. then we watched the church elect donald trump as the president. the evangelist church made this move. everybody saw this. then he chose to go and choose and make this deal with radical islam. this is historical. host: go ahead and respond to

him. guest: his talking about mexico and seeing the pyramids become so important. we look to partner with other organizations and largely look at how can we focus on events and activities, artifacts that quite honestly we can travel to go see. we work with american battlefield trust to talk about the revolutionary war and civil war in the last year and a half folks just haven't been able to visit. we finished a series with the smithsonian looking at their new exhibit on the rolls young women had played in shaping american history. we have the ability through video to really bring people to those museums without being able to travel to washington, d.c. or being able to come to new jersey or maryland to see it for themselves. host: let's talk to barbara from oklahoma.

can you give a quick comment or question. caller: i have a niece at the schools in new hampshire and they got the new history books and all the teachers refuse to use them because they said the history was not correct. host: are we seeing a rebellion coming from history teachers on what they see as incorrect curriculum? guest: i think we definitely are. as you see states dealing with adoption issues, school districts debating over what should or should not be in their textbooks. we are definitely seeing that sort of. with all the talks in terms of the changes in florida, talk, governor desantis adding it as an essentialist part of their social studies curriculum right now for instance. that's why looking at video you adopt a textbook you are stuck with that for 10 years. it's very hard to make any changes beyond that. the pallor video, whether it be

through us, through khan academy , all of those organizations who shown you can use video, it is simple and quick and can be adjusted on a dime to make sure our teachers have the material they feel comfortable with and feel confident in and our students will embrace. host: we would like to thank patrick, the president and ceo of the driving force institute for public engagement for being on with us this morning and talking about the organization's efforts to promote civics and u.s. history >> here is our prime timeline of night. a couple of warmer white house chief of staff talk about what it is like to hold the position. later, part of a symposium on the legacy of supreme court justice clarence thomas, focusing on federalism and the separation of powers. that all gets underway at 8:00

p.m. eastern, here on c-span. >> c-span's washington journal, every day we take your calls live on the air on the news of the day and we discussed policy issues that impact you. coming up friday morning, cnbc's lauren thomas talks about how the lingering coronavirus pandemic, inflation and supply chain issues affect retail sales as the holiday shopping season kicks off. then we will discuss u.s.-iran tensions and nuclear talks in vienna. watch live at 7:00 eastern friday morning on c-span or on c-span now, our new mobile app rejoined the discussion with your phone calls, facebook comments, texts, and tweets. >> the r street institute hosted a conversation on stabilizing democracy, including ways that could help improve trust and confidence in the electoral procs.