taleblu on tensions between the u.s. and iran and the resumption of nuclear talks. you can join the conversation by phone or send us a comment on facebook or twitter. host: this is washington journal for november 26. this -- there is more vaccination among shoppers. for the next hour, how does the economy impact your plans for holiday shopping. this is how you can let us know, (202) 748-8000 for those of you in the eastern and central time zones. for mountain and pacific, (202) 748-8001.

if you want to textus, you can do so at (202) 748-8003. you can post on facebook.com. you can also post on twitter as well. the hill, talked about the impact of holiday shopping what it means for the by demonstration. it will kick off a crucial stretch for the president as the economy shakes off the pandemic. tilde 19 star full the holiday season in 2020. retailers and manufacturers are -- sales are expected to rise 10% from last year, 12 point 2% from 2019. the credit card company is projecting a 56% increase in apparel sales. a 30% jump in electronics and 40% in jewelry sales from the

same time last year. that's from the hill. if you want to use that as the basis for your calls and letting us know about the economic picture and if it will impact your holiday season, the lines for the on the east and central time zone, (202) 748-8000. mountain and pacific, (202) 748-8001. you can texas or post on twitter. this is from democrats for liberty. this is what he posted, it was a gallup poll released tuesday finds that americans will spend 837 dollars on gifts this holiday season, that's the same as 2020. thank you for the segway. on zoom right now, we are joined by gallup. she is the social research director. good morning. thanks for joining us. the viewer did a lot of the work.

there is a chart included. can you explain these trends when it comes to the shopping season compared to the last couple? guest: the call is referring to our october estimates. we ask this question every year, how much they plan to spend on gifts. 837 was the number in october. that was up from 2020. we repeat the question in november. we found there planning to spend $886. that has increased over the season. that is over november last year. when you talk to these americans that use this information, what is there economic background? does it differ with how they do economically? when you break america into three buckets, less than $40,000 a year. you see a big difference in the

average spending. there is a big difference by economics and whether or not you have children. that is a factor. all sorts of things. republican spend more than democrats. there are a lot of interesting nuggets in the data. host: if you go to the website, it includes this. low income households are earning less than thousand dollars they started their shopping. half of those adults say they finished their shopping, when you talk to people, how many people do you take for this survey? how do you choose what people to talk to? guest: gallup surveys are 800-1000 adults. they are drawn randomly from turmeric -- ella phone.

everyone has an equal chance of being dialed. we go through a rigorous process to make it random. someone answers the phone, we can apply the statistics of probability to our accuracy and measuring. what people consider a small number, another part of the survey talked about how people are going to shop. host: you break it down by category. we will show people the graph. this is what people are most interested in it, what retail they are going toward. guest: we look at how likely they are to spend at these venues. by far, largest percent say they

are very likely to spend online on the unit. 56% say they are very likely to spend online. that exceeds the percentage of department stores or discount stores. 18% say is specialty stores like toy stores or big-box stores. 6% were catalogs. host: the mail order catalog businesses the lowest of the group. that's a shift in how people are doing things, compared with the use to with mail-order. guest: this trend goes back to 1993. we had 13% saying they were using mail-order. i think you have to go back to the 1920's or 30's to see mail-order at the top of the list, where people like to shop. that's a long-term.

in my polling lifetime, it's been slight decline. mail-order has never been a large portion of this market. department stores used to be 60% back in the 90's. that has obviously sagged. host: a couple of trends we've been noting on this program, one is inflation and rising costs. the other is retail chains. how is that impacting the shopping this year? guest: when we asked americans how much they planned to spend, inflation may factor into that number. it may also not. they get sticker shock when they go shopping. are they going to stick to their budget and just spend that number and be more careful? are they going to overspend? that number should be factored in for what data they send.

host: she is the you search social research director at gallup. if you want to see the trends, you can go to the website at gallup.com and see that. lydia, thanks for joining us as always. guest: happy shopping. host: that's the senate. if you want to comment about what your plans are for the economy when it comes to how much you plan to spend the season, if supply chains or basic economics, all of those things are up for consideration. if you want to give us a call, the phone lines are (202) 748-8000 for the eastern and central time zones. mountain and pacific time zones are (202) 748-8001. you can reach us on social media. some will be texting us as well. this is bob in illinois. he starts with yes. inflation is putting a dent in our wallets.

from david on twitter, the wife and i plan on less shopping. we are much last materialistic. we will buy toys and focus on activities like dining out, charities. he says he doesn't bind to the commercialism of commercial christmas. he is carved wooden spoons and given handmade art. he tells other viewers to buy local or native american craftspeople and support artists this christmas. you can make those comments on twitter as well. the president earlier this week just before leaving for the holidays talked about issues when it comes to the economy. he talked about concerns over the holiday season and the availability of being able to

buy gifts. you can see this on our website c-span.org. here is the president from earlier this week giving that status update. >> 40% of the goods coming into this country on the west coast come through two ports, los angeles and long beach. to help ease the congestion it, i brought together labor and management and asked them to step up and cooperate. to move from operating the ports at 40 hours a week at those ports 224 hours a day, seven days a week. i provided the resources to other key ports including savannah, and on the east coast to reduce congestion. we also met with the ceos of walmart, target, home depot, t.j. maxx, others. those retailers agreed to move products or quickly, stop

shelves more quickly. you may have heard the ceo of walmart yesterday. he said the combination of private enterprise and government working together has been successful. he went on to say there is a lot of innovation because of the actions we've taken. in the past three weeks, a number of containers sitting on docs blocking movement are down by 33%. shipping prices are down 25%. more goods are moving more quickly. all of these concerns a few weeks ago, there would not be ample food available for thanksgiving. so many people talked about that. families can rest easy. grocery stores are well-stocked. the major retailers i mentioned

have confirmed that there shelves will be well-stocked this holiday season. that is good news for moms and dads worried about whether or not christmas gifts will be available. it goes from bicycles to ice skates. host: you can see more of those comments at c-span.org. a website looks of the economic picture and what it means for holiday shopping. it's a weird time in the economy, it doesn't translate to people holding back on buying. people are shopping differently, they are not not shopping. the consumer will not be deterred. at least not entirely. they won't be happy about it. the consumer price index increased 6.2 percent from a year ago. it crept up 0.9 percent. regardless of the arguments of how serious the threat is right

now, consumers hate it. the price of food is up 5.3%. holiday meals are going to be more expensive. gas is pricey. smaller ticket ones like apparel. those are some of the comments speak into those inflation concerns. some of you have expressed that on social media. you can express that on the phone lines as well. one of the people expressing was the ohio republican jim jordan. it was the same day the president gave his speech on the current state of the economy. he commented on that and gave his perspective on fox news. >> when you have the president going out and trumpeting the fact that there is merchandise to purchase in the store,

there's always been stuff to buy in stores. that is crazy. that's how ridiculous it's gotten, when you brag that there are things to buy. we have record inflation. he said if you spend $2 trillion more, i think it's going to make everything worse. if you spend it, it's going to help inflation. there is not a rational person who believes that statement. for the president to make that statement and brag that there are things to buy, drive by any car dealership. i've never seen or the car doesn't have cars on the lot. host: you can see that on fox news. this is al from arkansas. the wife and i are putting money away for christmas. we also donate for needy children.

from randy in michigan, our granddaughter is three years old. we probably won't be close, it will be more for toys, not diapers. the living room will be full of wrapping paper on the floor when we are done this year. from william in connecticut, every thing costs more. there is less available for gifting. he talked about the results of the pole. from virginia, the economy is causing us to coordinate with friends and family to cut back on dollars for gifts. you may be doing that as part of your strategy. you can call us and let us know. we are taking a look at consumer sentiment. the university of michigan puts out its survey. when it comes to the results for november 2021, the index for consumer sentiment is 67.4%.

looking at current economic conditions and people responding, 73% said that is a factor, that's down from october. other information says consumers express less optimism in november 20 21 of all other times. they say the decline was due to a combination of rapidly escalating inflation. the roots of inflation have spread more broadly, one out of four said their living standards

had eroded. that is from the university of michigan. james in georgette, the democrat line. -- you are first up. good morning. go ahead. what is your economic picture looking like? caller: it's looking great. with the checks given out to child tax credits, all of these different things, a lot of people got their meals from food banks. all of this is smoke and mirrors. what will it be next? don't buy it if you don't have the money. nothing is mandatory that you must have. all of this is coming from trump and republicans.

the democrats have to come in and clean it up. host: back to the shop in itself, was at the stimulus check that was part of that? are you talking about other people primarily? caller: people are working. the unemployment rate is down. people are getting assistance. people are having checks and money to spend. it is smoke and mirrors. look at the stores. people are back traveling. the unemployment rate is down. all of this is republican hysteria. host: you said you've been to the stores? caller: i have been to the mall, to the stores. it's good out here. they are getting those tax credits as well. host: that is james in georgia. we will hear mary in fort washington. caller: i totally agree with the

previous collar. i've stopped celebrating corporate christmas. it's just better to save the money. it's better to be with your hambly -- family. going shopping is ridiculous. right around halloween, they started to get you stimulate it. go to the store and here christmas music, can we go through halloween first? i feel like commercials that are regulated by the corporate owned world, they are trying to fool people into spending more money. they already put up how much money you're going to spend. my husband just passed. i'm not going to be spending money. i daughter is disabled so she has no idea what christmas is. host: was that your pattern in

the past? caller: 10 years is not really recent to me. it just got to be too much. one of i buying these gifts for? when your family is in your life all the time, were always sitting around together, having your family time. christmas is just a blowout. it satisfies the corporations to make sure they get their bottom line. host: that is mary in maryland. the previous collar mentioned the job picture. this is the wall street journal, looking at it. household spending rose 1.3% from one month earlier. the commerce department said wednesday consumers are benefiting from strong labor market and spending at a faster place than -- pasted inflation.

spending on services which were hit hard i the pandemic is showing improvement. acceleration from the previous two months, if you want to paint your job situation or compare it from last year, feel free to do so. sharon is in hanover pennsylvania. you are next up. caller: thank you. your previous collar sounded very well. i do not observe christmas. other than baking cookies for friends. the message is coronavirus, climate crisis, the answer is spend more, drive more, eat more.

i would like anyone to consider this. the holidays generate a gargantuan amount of waste every single year. we do not need all of this stuff. host: do you think it's important for the economy? caller: could you repeat that? host: do you think the holiday purchasing season is important for the health of the economy? caller: it's probably important. as mary said. the entire globe needs to reset priorities. we need to address our urgent problems. that's going to entail sacrifice for everyone. we must face it. caller: that is sharon in pennsylvania.

she will be spending a lot more this year. mike and orlando texting us. he said the economy is fantastic and real estate is at an all-time high. there are 40,000 job opening central for. the only naysayers are right-wing media trying to make democrats look bad. that is mike and orlando. salem oregon it, you are up next. caller: if you're going to celebrate, spend accordingly. don't go crazy. i would save for what's coming. you might be able to jump in. that's my comment. host: as far as your personal

plan for spending it, how would you describe it? he hung up. we have a few more minutes for this. (202) 748-8000 for those of you in the eastern and central time zones. the mound and pacific time zones, (202) 748-8001. we had a representative from the independent businesses. one of the things he talked about when it came to matters of the health of independent businesses was supply chains to get goods and services to stores. here is a little bit from the interview earlier this week. >> half of small businesses have been negatively affected. 60% think those disruptions will continue in the future. that number is steady or growing. the disruptions are happening in the environment.

there is been some good news for some relief on the supply chain disruption. we hope that continues. business owners are expecting to have continued issues on top of the other variables that exist. >> what do you think of the handling of the issue? >> it's a challenge. the administration, they made some changes to allow working with local counties, to allow containers to be stacked higher than previously. that's an intuitive step. we will see. business owners are not expecting immediate relief on this. i know there is a shortage of truck drivers, hopefully, these issues can be worked out and resolved.

host: a few more minutes on this topic. it can make your thoughts known. (202) 748-8001 for those of you in the eastern and central time zones. (202) 748-8000 -- (202) 748-8001 format and pacific time zones. taking a look at the changing workforce and what it means for the economy, this was the washington times reporting. the scarcity of workers in the u.s. in the wake of covid-19 is causing some employers to raise their wages and others give employees a greater say in daily operations. businesses are still struggling to retain workers. this story adding that experts say this could last four years, that 4.4 million americans quit their jobs in september,

surpassing the previous high in august. this is prompted many older workers to opt in for early retirement. others are requiring new skills. the washington post looked at issues, particularly when it comes to the matters of inflation. this story adding that the emphasis comes after months of democrats who have pressed to do more, to acknowledge inflation is a concern for voters and tell what they are doing to combat it. that includes four pollsters who have urged the white house chief of staff to make a bigger show of the policies the president is pushing to stem inflation. they should point to figure at large companies who have seen record profits.

that is from the washington post. when it comes to holiday matters, the issues of holiday spending, we are taking a few more minutes on your calls. you can let us know on the phone lines. you can let us know when your twitter feed. some people are commenting on their. this is dave from our facebook page. adam from facebook says. from florence, kentucky: one more bit of sound to show you. this is from the ceo of walmart.

he was giving his perspective as a retailer on what they are expecting this holiday season. >> we've seen a little bit of inflation in the single digit range around the store. it is spread evenly among categories. basic items like a turkey, $.87 a pound. we are still in good shape on price relative to where we were a year ago. for the most part, we are going to fight hard to have rate value for customers. >> how much are we struggling, if demand is there and prices aren't up that much? >> we see a strong consumer around the country. we see strong demand. incomes are higher than they were a year ago. we know savings rates are better on average. there is a lot of demand for holiday products, that is from our core fresh food business to

gifting. we think customers are in pretty good shape as we go into the holidays. host: edit from georgia. go ahead. caller: i think joe biden is the king of inflation. the democrats might try to protect him. this thing is not over with. biden likes to pretend that this is because of covid. it has nothing to do with the economy. they need to be impeached. host: this is about holiday shopping. what are your plans? caller: i ate beans and rice yesterday. i felt bad for the poor people.

i-8 beans and rice and a glass of water. host: that is ed finishing off this half-hour, plans for economic spending. if you want to add that to our open form which continues, you can do that or talk about other matters with public policy that are interesting to you. it is (202) 748-8000 four democrats, (202) 748-8001 four republicans. independent voters, (202) 748-8002. you can text us if you wish at (202) 748-8003. as we talk about in the last caller referenced, the wall street journal had stories this morning about potential new covid variant in south africa. this is out of johannesburg. scientist said they were still studying the combination of

mutations of the new variant, how they impact the virus, this is how the changes continue to pose a risk. it quotes the health minister of south africa, saying it's just reinforcing the idea that this enemy is unpredictable. he adds the government to hold discussions over whether new restrictions were necessary. this would stem the spread of the new variant. that is in south africa. if you want to continue in the previous topic, you cannot. james in lancaster, virginia. hello. caller: yesterday was a great day. we will splendid -- spend any money.

you can tell that the guy at walmart doesn't shop at his own stores. there is nothing in walmart that is not gone up substantially. a pound of ground beef was $3.58. yesterday, this past sunday, $4.28. that's more than a 5% increase. host: have you noticed that generally? if that is the case, how does it impact your holiday plans? caller: it's not. i grew up in the 70's. we had inflation and gas lines. it is what it is. you can call in and say they're not celebrating christmas.

you can enjoy the holidays. host: let's hear from dusty in south carolina. good morning. caller: good morning. covid did have a little bit to do with this. we were shut down for year. we got three stimulus checks. people already had some money in the bank. they passed this tax credit paired people are getting money if you've got children. people have money on top of money. where i live, traffic is bumper-to-bumper. the grocery stores and the stores are packed. now, i'm putting the mask back on. the stores are so crowded. they want to complain about gas,

they are out there as fast as they possibly can. some stores are having to cap the quantity that you get. people need to relax. we went through this with bush when he had the housing bubble. we've been through this before. host: we will hear from valerie in florida. caller: this is valerie. i wanted to say, i think it's a lot better. i believe they have bad messaging. they don't know how to show.

they have opened up the docks in the east and west. everybody wants things automatic, like instant gratification. they been creative in opening up the petroleum reserves. to help with the cost of gasoline. people need to not be so angry with others. the guy said that he ate beans and rice and had water. some guy said everybody has money in the bank. all i hear is that most people live paycheck-to-paycheck. i don't understand why people

are so mean. host: that is valerie in fort lauderdale. wayne in -- caller: i think probably if you would look at pie.com, its research on the tariffs and the cost of the people in the country. it's been over $200 billion since the tariffs were enacted. i picked up a piece of equipment the other day. the tariff figured about an extra $120. i had to drive 200 miles to get it. my son has been in the

international supply chain for 62 years now. he's been in the supply chain 40 years. host: how would you describe the state of the economy as you see it? caller: what's happened is i talk to him every day. he is 62 now. that's what he's done all of his life is supply chain. when they enacted the tariffs, the chinese got very angry. they shut him down. the problem with the movement of the stuff is the chinese are not shipping us any chassis.

he had one large shipment. the tariff was $440,000. this is what's killing the country. it would be interesting if c-span would do a show on the tariffs and the impact it has. host: we've done it plenty of those segments, the peterson institute which is the website you quoted. you can see those conversations. you can go to our website and do that. let's hear from georgia. good morning. caller: good morning. could morning, c-span. as i've said, i try to explain to people that if you understand how macroeconomics works, it

takes 18 months for any policy that any president or federal reserve or treasury secretary puts in place, it takes 18 months for those two settle out. that means for all of you republicans blaming joe biden, you are still living with donald's economy. sorry. that's how it goes. thank you, c-span. i enjoy you so much. host: this is sharon in oklahoma. caller: i was wondering, everybody talks about cars. what's the expense of having a charging station put in your house? most people have outdated electric systems. that's an extra cost for the

consumer. as the government going to pay for that? . host: you can comment on issues in this open forum, issues that interest you. (202) 748-8000 four democrats. (202) 748-8001 four republicans. (202) 748-8002 independent voters. the new york times reporting russia and ukraine. the story is by michael crowley. they write in part:

the new york times is where you can find that reporting. david is in michigan. good morning. caller: good morning. i love your programming it. i am calling from flint. it is a little bit cold up here. we are use to it. i just love the economy. i was able to get my kitchen redone. i just love it.

i think the economy is doing great. i think the democrats are working their fingers to the bone while the republicans criticize and try to kill the economy. joe biden is doing a great job. host: how so specifically? caller: i think when he did that giving people the extra money during covid, it helped the economy start turning. it's worth waiting. the demand is back up. i think the gas is a little high. that's never stopped me from doing nothing. people just want something to complain about. host: that was david from michigan. michigan is the story in the newspaper. coronavirus cases are rising.

that's the washington post. this is from boston, massachusetts. hello. caller: i am sick and tired of hearing people talk about the stock market all the time, they like to talk about it. nobody's talking about the stock market. people down here don't have nothing.

if they wanted to help, they would pass a stimulus to help people. everything is bad. they were giving all the money to the rich people. they complain about this they've been trying to keep the money for themselves. when republicans get elected, it's on tape. host: are you saying another stimulus is needed? caller: by the time they gave the last and out, it was time to give another one out. it's like me owing you $100. then i give it to you next month, do you think you should get more? host: if the current cases showing better employment, why

do you think something else is needed? caller: there are a lot of people. by the time they gave it, they were trying to get another one. you don't get my point? host: when does it stop? caller: i'm just saying, if i needed a stimulus in january and you give it to me next january, how long do you think i am going to live? host: let's hear from christine in maryland. caller: this is christine. i think there should be a cremation law for those that have covid. i wondered when the fourth stimulus is going to come up. host: why do you think another one is needed? caller: they said there was going to be a fourth one. host: who said that? caller: it set it on my phone.

host: i don't know if those discussions are taking place. why do you think it is needed? caller: because people need to spend. host: ok. that was christine in maryland, on the republican line. when it comes to federal workers who got the covid vaccination, 92% of federal employees, 3.5 million workers, received at least one shot. another have exception requests. the report did not specify. the percentage were fully vaccinated. that is the wall street journal. this is from larry in this open forum. good morning. caller: hello? i want to comment about that new

covid variant. we need to allow it to spread worldwide like the first two. we need to not try and isolated and quarantine those people. it must be allowed to spread like the first two. he won't have anybody to lock down. it's when they make healthy people stay home with the sickos. tony is all for it. thank you very much. host: that was larry in michigan. cbs news is reporting the irs issued payments in the third round of direct stimulus aid with 2 million people in july receiving those checks. some lawmakers are pushing for a fourth round that would set

currents until the pandemic ends. the federal response to the crisis caused by the pandemic is paid out 3200 dollars to eligible adults. despite that, millions are in financial distress. the spread of the delta variant is causing headwinds. let's hear from gary in orlando. hello. caller: hello? host: go ahead. caller: i really don't understand how people come up with these ideas. i keep thinking the government spends, people get the money. they buy stuff.

i've seen when they close down anything. the reason was because of corona. there was pent-up demand. now that the economy is going back, i'm watching the indicators showing the job growth is at the highest in decades. people have money in their pockets. the poor are starting to see some symbolism that the government cares about them. the last administration cared more about big corporations and donors. the last president talked about some states should not get this because they are blue states. this is the united states of america. people need to remember the words. there is no texas or arizona. these are individual states. the economy is doing fine.

host: that is gary in orlando. facebook is saying: from florence,. victor is in pennsylvania. caller: good morning. just a few comments. i've been watching all morning. the economy seems to be booming. we need to remember what inflation means. on top of the economy booming, we are paying back all of this money. i have a small company.

i could not get guys to go work because they refused to wear a mask. the real reason was they were getting $1100 a week on unemployment. they wouldn't go to work. you can't give people money to stay home. you can't keep giving it stimulus. you have to make it worth their while to go to work. to shut down our pipeline, i don't want to hear simply say gas prices of only reason -- risen a little bit. i can assure you it's gone up over $1.50 per gallon. host: to your point about the aid that came from the government, some of that has stopped. do you see more interest in hiring? now with the money stopped coming in? caller: absolutely.

it's hard to condemn someone for staying home when they are making that kind of money. host: you've seen changes in your own business? caller: absolutely. the problem is there are so many people that don't have jobs. they still don't want to go to work. i use union ironworkers. they go to work. they get decent pay. a lot of people don't get good pay. they are going to stay home. put together some sort of incentive for them to go to work , something that tells them you're not going to get more money. if you go to work, you may get a tax break. host: that is victor in pennsylvania. let's hear from tommy in virginia. caller: i am a strong democrat.

we need to vote these democrats out. host: what do you mean by that? caller: the party right now, this is the worst bunch i've ever seen in my life. i am 70 year old. host: caller: you are a democrat? yes. host: did you vote for joe biden? caller: yes. look what he's doing. he's tearing the country apart. they are degrading people, making stupid comments about people get in trouble. host: ok. let's hear from charlie in california. caller: good morning.

real quick, somebody was talking about how the stock market is affected by the market because of this variant in south africa. i heard about it two weeks ago. the stock market is down and the futures trading, almost 800 points. california stimulus checks which are different than the ones from the federal government, we were promised them if we got our taxes done electronically. we would be getting our $600 checks in the next two months. two months later, we were promised they were coming out in two weeks.

it is now the end of the year. we were promised these in april. we still haven't got them. people around me, they have not got them. yesterday, my turkey was a tuna sandwich. it was good. it wasn't turkey. we are still waiting for the stimulus checks there were promised to us. we found so much money hidden away in the budget. 6.8 million people are getting these checks. it would've been great for the holidays to have gotten that. host: he referenced the stock market, particularly about the new variant. dow futures dropped more than

700 points on that news. you can see more on the website where you get stock related news. sophia is in miami. hello. caller: hello. host: you were on. caller: i am wondering why we are the richest country in the world, we complain so much. everything we get, we complain. we are never thankful for nothing. it is never enough. what we need to do is stop thinking so much about what we don't have and thank the lord for what we have. we are so blessed. wake up. thank the lord. we are blessed. host: from virginia, the independent line.

we will hear from anthony. caller: this is the greatest country in the world. president biden has done the best to keep it going. we all know we are in the same country together. thank you. host: that was anthony in virginia rounding off the open form. thank you for those who participated. we will go back to the economy when it comes to holiday shopping. cnbc is joining us. later on, we will hear from the foundation for defense of democracy. we discuss iranian issues. there will be a meeting on monday, looking at the nuclear deal. that is coming up on washington

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>> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us to talk about the retail picture on this black friday is lauren thomas. thank you for joining us on this day. very busy day. guest: thank you for having me. host: let's go to a story you posted yesterday, particularly on the people going to do the stopping how they are approaching this day. characterize that story and what it means for the retail picture. guest: i think you are referring to a story that we wrote for cnbc that looks at how the shopping season is so different than holidays past. expectations across the board are rosie. i wanted to start with that, setting the stage with the national retail federation calling for sales to be up between eight and a half to 10 and a half percent year-over-year kid that would be a record increase.

expectations are high and there is a lot of optimism. within that, there are a number of factors that i know we want to dive into that are public eating the picture, making it more murky. when all is said and done, it could look a lot different than what we thought going into the holidays. one of those being the supply chain issues, which a lot of us have heard about and has made its way into the mainstream media because they are so significant. that is one thing retailers are working through. you have inflation, rising prices. that means some people cannot participate in holiday shopping when they might have been able to in years past because they are starting to see sticker shock. i know we can certainly dive into a number of those factors. companies are very optimistic.

macy's was on cnbc and it look like it was busy. we are seeing people turn out for stores this black friday. last year it was not an option when we were in the thick of covid. host: we are showing the folks the headline from yesterday saying the record numbers of americans saying they weren't going to be buying. who are those americans? guest: i would love to get into that with you. it is significant. you have the national retail federation calling for this and part might be that prices are going up and inflation at play. that will mean we see higher retail growth. 11 point 5% of americans saying they will not spend a penny on holiday gifts, gift cards, food to entertain family members and

loved ones. that is according to a delight survey that we keep track of at cnbc. that is the highest delight has ever seen. 11 point -- deloitte has ever seen. that is 11% saying they are sitting out. there are a number of reasons at play. i spoke with a homeless shelter in san francisco saying they are seeing demand that they have never seen before. stimulus assistance has dried up and as a result, that has put more people out on the streets and they are seeing an uptick in demand for services. that is what we are seeing play out around the country. there is a wealth gap divide is what we got at in this story where you have some consumers

that had money in their 401(k) and they benefited from the growth we have seen in the stock market year to date and they have been sucking away money, savings that they have not been spending on travel and experiences and other things during covid. they are very well off and they are to beating a lot to what we are seeing and talking about. 11 and a half percent of americans say they can't afford to spend anything. it is an important dynamic to pay attention to and acknowledge. even though retailers say they are optimistic, there is a subset of americans contributing to that growth. host: the deloitte survey you reference, there is a line saying households that brought in within 100,000 dollars will show up $2600 apiece, up 15% from 2020.

lower income groups making less than 50,000, will spend $536, a 22% decline from a year ago. guest: exactly. the numbers tell the story. you have a subset of people spending more and those pulling back. host: lauren thomas here to talk about the tell picture. if you want to ask questions, (202) 748-8002 for eastern and central. if you work in retail and want to let us know what you think, (202) 748-8002 is the number to call. if i am a retailer, one of my main concerns not only for the supplies but for employees i will need to make sales possible. guest: the labor market. another hot topic, the holiday

season, that is the super bowl for a lot of these companies and that is when they are putting out tire were temporary workers but also increasingly where houses because e-commerce sales continue to grow. this year we are seeing a tight labor market. we have been tracking the unemployment rate during the pandemic. and a lot of folks whether changed jobs or rethought what they wanted to do and have rejoined and a lot of them are second-guessing. we see companies like macy, -- macy's, walmart, target, they're seeking retail workers for the

holidays. we never really know for certain . you can see it. i know there was some indeed data on the job search site that showed inquiries for holiday retail jobs were way down this year. that speaks to the fact that if folks are seeking work in these positions. so companies like macy's are offering perks, raising wages, trying to lure people in whatever way they can come whether it is a referral bonus, they all offer now college tuition and help with textbooks in getting back to school. we are seeing companies get creative to fill those positions. it is just not the demand we have seen in past years.

host: does a vaccine mandate factor into the issues, not only if the company but the potential federal government having one as well? guest: we have seen pushback on that front. the national federation put out a letter to the government. they are trying with the vaccine mandate to hold off until after the holidays and not enforce and make it enforceable for retail companies because it can be a controversial subject and when you are trying to attract workers and as many workers as you possibly can and you are a retailer, i don't think you suddenly want to cut off a subset of people just because you have a mandate in place. you have seen pushback from the retail industry because of the

bind they are in trying to keep as much flexibility in these retail positions they are trying to fill. it is tough when you have the back-and-forth that has been going on between the white house and the national retail federation. exactly when this needs to be enforced in and fermented, you have seen other industries being put in similar positions of what to do and when to enforce it. host: our first call is from patrick in carnegie, pennsylvania. caller: thank you for having me. when you look at the trajectory of the series of every epidemiological model, there is nothing natural about the is

these mutations are not natural. i hear the rhetoric when it comes to the retail employment environment and the fact that the american people have been tolerating such low wages for so many years to counter the chinese counterparts. and then we think this is some type of manageable issue because all of the sudden corporations have found their soul when providing some type of equity to the american people. it is almost ridiculous. host: we will leave it there and let our guest respond. guest: you see the pandemic in many ways and accelerant for things that were already in place. when you look at wages, when we

were thrust into this pandemic with covid, it was and accelerant for companies to finally act and we have seen a lot of these initiatives, college tuition, wage hikes. i think that this year, a lot of that has finally spun into action. it is a longer-term think we will be living with, but it has been the accelerant for a number of retailers to make some actions they have been pressured to do for a while or have been considering for some time. host: we will hear from nikki in little rock, arkansas who worked in retail. guest: good morning. caller: i worked in retail and it is not fair to people.

minimum wage is $11 an hour and for you to have to work so long and so hard in it is just not fair to the american people. we only make $11 an hour. it makes no sense. like amazon and all of those companies they are selling products that should be sold story. it makes no sense. rent is $700.

$2200 a month just to live and $11 an hour or $15 an hour does not equal what it takes to pay bills. host: thank you very much. guest: that is probably commonly shared for many americans. that is what retailers are realizing when they hit crunch time like the holiday season. you have to raise wages. the one thing she didn't mention, you have inflationary environment, whether it is the cost of food, fuel prices are up. the cost of apparel is up. we are seeing a lot of these categories see price hikes and some of that is being passed on to the consumer. an interesting point, we have seen walmart and target in recent weeks saying they are

going to try to take on inflationary costs themselves and not raise prices on the shopper as a result. they are trying to keep prices low. you saw just last week dollar tree, you expect a lot of things will cost a dollar. but when you go in, they are raising prices to a dollar 25 be the new threshold across the stores by early next year that should be phased in because they have seen so much pressure. inflationary pressure. we are seeing companies respond in different ways but that is a huge factor in all of this and why the minimum wage at $11 an hour is just not sustainable. host: there is a viewer of twitter saying working retail saying it is tough, angry customers with immediate

gratification expectations. guest: what this viewer may be getting at is that during the pandemic, there were 70 things and different situations that the retail worker has to consider how to deal with the customer wearing a mask in the store. there was a period where it was very murky on whether masks were required or not. we were talking in real time about whether or not they needed to put the mask requirements and i had the big thing of whether a mask mandate should be put in place. i know we have seen a lot of frustration and arguably so around the past 20 months because this is uncharted

territory for them in many retail workers are waiting to hear from the manager, what is the protocol and you have customers coming in and it is a tough decision to be in. i think that is what they were getting at. host: the national retail federation said expect 58 million tomorrow and 31 million by saturday. this excludes what they will be doing online. is it the individual shops, are the malls a factor here where are people hiding? guest: the national retail federation is expecting this weekend, black friday through cyber monday, 2 million more americans heading to stores than was the case a year ago. we are expecting travel to have

an uptick. 64% of consumers according to this national retail federation survey planning to head to stores on black friday, today. an interesting dynamic and something propelling growth, number of retailers closed stores yesterday, on thanksgiving. a few years back, it started with sears chain, we saw the trend for companies to open stores on thanksgiving day. there was this desire to spread some of the momentum. retailers found shoppers were willing to show up after thanksgiving dinner and they are eager to go shopping it was so the trend over time in over the past few years and they've taken retail sales on it this year we

have a number of factors at play, one being retail and you have seen pushback from retail workers having to work those thanksgiving shifts. so target, walmart, macy's, bed bath and beyond closed stores on thanksgiving this year and target has said that will be a new precedent being forward. now we are seeing a shift away for the starving open at least part of the day and they are trying to push the momentum onto black friday. i think today we are expecting a lot of shoppers to be out and about. we have had some guests already at malls and they are pretty busy, not as busy as they were in 2019, but a lot busier than last year. host: let's hear from ray, syracuse, new york.

caller: your guest has a lot of bubbly words but between her and the content of what she is singing and the callers, it looks like everyone is starting to get it. this was the result of a very well orchestrated attack on our country and the west in general to knock out the small businesses and hamper our economies. some things are so precious that if they go away they may never return. i am not saying that is the case here, but clearly we have been hurt deeply and no amount of optimism can change that. host: if i am a small business, how am i facing this season? guest: i am glad you brought

that up. that is another seam or thing to dive into this holiday season. with this gradual shift online and especially during the pandemic, i spoke to a number of retailers that had no presence online. when you are thrust where people are not going out, what did the businesses do that have no other way to sell their goods? you have seen some of them try to build on a presence online. a home goods owner i know based in georgia, i was talking to her and she was talking about how she built a website online just to stay afloat. that is the dynamic at play here as the larger players like amazon and walmart are succeeding in taking on a ton of market share while it is coming from somewhere and small

business owners have been on the other end of the stick in many instances. it is a tough dynamic but definitely true. host: lauren thomas reports on retail issues for cnbc. for the heads of companies, what are they saying about supply chain issues and are they saying anything about the administration's efforts to resolve those issues? guest: the supply chain, we have seen companies weathering this a bit better than others. one reported earnings just earlier in the week and they flashed the outlook for the remainder of the year due to the supply chain. gap is an apparel company. they largely sell apparel.

they have factories across parts of asia, primarily vietnam. during the pandemic, we have seen parts of the world entirely shut down and new lockdowns put in place. gap was one of those businesses who had those closed overseas. at the same time, gap said it was hit with the port congestion with backlogs and companies can't get goods off of ships into trucks and ultimately you need truck drivers to drive those trucks to warehouses, and that it becomes a labor issue. there are so many points along this domino chain that have been really hurts over the past few months. gap but there outlook for the rest of the year -- cut their outlook for the rest of the year because they do not have enough product to meet the demand.

whereas walmart and target, two really big box retail chains, both had strong inventory levels when they reported earnings week ago. we saw the inventories inflated which says that they have gotten goods in stock ahead of holiday time in preparation for the holiday season, trying to secure inventory to meet shopper demand. when you see a company like walmart or target, what i think as a reporter is their relationship is very strong and they are in a better position, going back to our small business conversation, the big-box chains have strong relationships with manufacturers and vendors overseas and if anyone is going to get goods in, they are standing in line to do so. you see in some companies

weathering the situation better than others. the consensus is this is not going away overnight and it certainly will not be over by the time we get to the holiday season. the supply chain complications will linger well into 2022. host: this is from bill in snellville, georgia. good morning. caller: good morning. outside of supply chain issues come apparel has been hit over the past two years. what is the status for american apparel? host: ok. american apparel. guest: apparel, there has been a lot of distress in that space, even leading up to the pandemic within the malls in particular, we saw a number of apparel change go bankrupt. when covid struck in march 2020,

that set off another wave of bankruptcies, whether department store chains like jcpenney, lord and taylor, century 21, in a number of smaller apparel chains as well. what i hear when i speak to experts and analysts in the space is that was a bit of a shakeout that was in some ways needed to weed out some players in the industry you are left with many apparel retailers to choose from if you are a consumer and maybe those folks have taken on more of the market share. it creates opportunities for new companies to come along and new upstart that hopefully you will see coming out of this pandemic a spirit of entrepreneurial ship . i feel like we always see that cycle within the retail industry.

apparel sales, when you want to look at just demand, we have seen that come back strongly month by month. when you look at monthly retail sales data come apparel sales took up. many consumers eager to refresh their wardrobes you have seen a number of folks saying maybe they just need a new size because they have added or gained a few pounds or shed a few pounds living at home. i know the levi's ceo spoke as the reason that their sales have performed well. people are coming in looking for new sizes of clothing and some people are just looking to totally clean out their wardrobe, ready for a fresh start after what we have lived through in the past 20 or so months. there was a lot of wreckage last year with the bankruptcies, what

we have weeded out the weaker players and have been left with those who have a stronger balance sheet. host: let's hear from emma, brandywine, maryland. caller: everybody is talking about macy's and walmart. has anybody did any research on the thrift shores. i shot thrift shores and aligned to check out is in the back of the shores. that is where everybody is shopping, at thrift stores. guest: i am glad you brought that up. we have seen thrift ink that is one category within retail that is growing and has grown exponentially so during the pandemic. whether you are someone who is shopping on a budget, that is one reason a consumer might go to a thrift store. you have also seen thriftiness

and secondhand sites gaining popularity in the younger generation of consumers that this is something that is appealing to them, whether it is posh mark or thread up, these are one of the secondhand apparel sites where you can sell stuff if you are a consumer looking to offload your clothing. you can put it on one of those sites and shop that as well in turn. i think thrifting is one area expected to perform well. you take into consideration supply chain issues, that could be another reason that compels thrifting. if goods from retailers are stuck on ships in the ocean, suddenly the idea of shopping secondhand becomes more appealing because it is ready and available. i think the secondhand economy

is definitely growing and is a trend we are watching in years to come. we have the younger generations that find that appealing as well. host: we have seen stories coming out of california, so-called smash and grab crimes, is this concern for retailers overall and what does it mean for potential shoppers to those stores? guest: it is something that companies are thinking about. it is top of mind this weekend. i spoke to nordstrom about it last week. there was an incident, and l.a. where their store was broken into and a number of others. they are stepping up security and taking other precautionary measures to prepare for that and to be prepared this weekend. best buy spoke to this as well earlier in the week, because

they have been a victim of it. organized retail crime is something we see year after year in the industry and companies take a hit and that plays into their expectations. unfortunately that goes on but there has been an uptick in that more recently. and as ceo spoke to it impacting employees and she is fearful it could become something that pushes workers away. it goes back to what we are seeing that the retail workers on the front line have to deal with and this is becoming more and more so another one of those. so she said the company is trying to take preventative measures and step up security and implement training or talk to workers about this and how they can work through situations when thefts come into stores and

try to steal electronics and other goods. i know it is top of mind for retail executives during the holiday season because we have seen, for whatever reason, an uptick in that in recent weeks. host: this is going to be a busy weekend for you. when are you going to see the first set of numbers as far as the retail holiday season? guest: we do have a few numbers already available to us. there were statistics that came in overnight that said $5.4 billion, their projection for what was spent online yesterday on thanksgiving day. just goes to show that people are still shopping, with the stores being close, a number of retailers have opted to close stores on thanksgiving more of those dollars are being spent online. over the weekend, we will start

to get early readings on black friday traffic numbers, which i know work always -- i know we are always eager to look at. one thing i want to mention, it is a dynamic, watching cnbc in the background, as we speak, i know the stock market is reacting to this news about a potential new variant of the coronavirus and just what that could look like. that has called into question, will that make shoppers more fearful too, if they see this. we know very little at this point in time about what this variant could look like. it is another factor at play and as consumers are watching, something they will be seeing on the television screen as well. a lot to consider. maybe we see some dollars that

would have been spent in stores may shifting online. host: lauren thomas reports on retail for cnbc. thank you for your time. best of holiday seasons to you. guest: thank you happy holidays as well. host: we will hear from the foundation for the defense of democracies behnam ben taleblu. (202) 748-8000 four democrats, (202) 748-8001 republican, and independents (202) 748-8002. we will take calls when "washington journal" continues. >> sunday, december 5 on

in-depth, historian and conservative commentary victor davis joins us live to talk about war, politics and citizenship in the united states. his book titles include the father of us all, the case for trump, and the dying citizen, the idea of citizenship are disappearing. join in the conversation with phone calls, facebook comments, texts, and tweets on in-depth on book tv. and before the program, visit c-span.org/shop to get his books.

>> "washington journal" continues. host: if you want to send us a text, you can do so at (202) 748-8003. you can post on facebook and always post on our twitter feed @cspanwj. the hill reporting that in europe concerns as far as rising covid-19. it is a warning to the united states about the threat of the virus, even as ready are ready to move past the pandemic despite the european union

having the higher vaccination levels than the u.s. parts of europe saw coronavirus infections on wednesday, a spike in cases prompting austria to reimpose a lockdown while belgium has included a mass mandate amid its own surge. that sparking protests, that lockdowns are not expected as there is no appetite and it said that the europe crisis shows that it the virus means a threat , particularly where there are unvaccinated people. this is open forum. we will do this until 9:00. you can participate social media wise, text. brentwood, tennessee is how we will start. we will hear from wayne on the republican line. caller: a discussion on whether

our legal system is just has happened the last several days. our court system has in the last decision in the ahmaud arbery was a good decision and the attorney said that our jury system works. where we have a problem in our legal system is the favorite class never gets prosecuted, whether it is joe's son -- joe biden's son and people do get off, o.j. simpson, if you are in the favorite class, it doesn't matter what your color is. it is just you have power. whether poor people, black or white, -- host: how do you define favorite

class? caller: there are people in a social media, if you have the wrong opinion, according to the favorite class, you cannot get anything on. host: how do you define it? caller: i defined it by what i see. i see that every opinion is not valued. conservative opinion is not valued and in fact it is forcibly removed from discussion. host: ok. that is wayne in tennessee. let's hear from randy in oregon, independent line. caller: makes for doing what you do. my comment -- thanks for doing what you do. my comment is, i was watching a

show last week and they were talking to the guest on the show who is talking about an infrastructure bill and what it would do and in particular talking about electric vehicles, which i am all for. i was picturing what happens if we succeed? what happens if all of the sudden hundreds of thousands of electric cars hit the streets in 18 months? other going to be lines at the is little pods where people juice the cars up? i don't know exactly how long it takes to fuel an electric car, host: you are seeing the infrastructure wouldn't be there if people bought onto it? caller: it could be a timing problem.

be careful what we ask for, that's all. i personally am all for electric cars. quit spewing fuels into the air, but i am trying to figure out how the timing would be managed. host: do you think affordability of the vehicle factors into who is able to buy an electric car and do you find yourself that way? could you buy one? caller: i could not what i like to, yes. i will probably in the future, and i suppose the market forces as you aptly pointed out could be used to kind of manage how many are hitting the streets in any given year. but one would assume as technology always does when it gets better, everybody is doing it and it gets cheaper. i am just trying to figure out

-- you know, they talked about electric, we will call them fuel pumps -- host: charging stations. caller: can that be scaled up in a hurry if we succeed? the manufacturers are targeting five years or 10 years out to go all electric. host: that is randy good to give you perspective, you mentioned the previous interview, still available if you go to the website. recent data talking about electric vehicles and the issues facing will people buy into them. go to our website to find more about that at c-span.org. robert in california, republican line. caller: i observed with your previous guest when you ended the interview you referenced

happy holidays and she represented holidays. the world how -- the word holidays has replaced christmas. i would hope during the christmas season that at least the word christmas would be acknowledged during this season. this political correctness. host: other observances take place during this time of year, but go ahead. caller: the primary reason for the holiday season is christmas, and it's undeniable to say otherwise. it is just a terrible thing that christmas has been taken out of the holiday season. host: that is robert in california. from sean in fort lauderdale, florida, independent line. caller: i have a question.

it is starting to get ridiculous. host: what do you mean by that? caller: i hear this morning, this morning, this morning. i heard it 50 times during your conversation. it is starting to get ridiculous. host: this is from the new york times this morning, the front page. it takes a look at what is happening in state houses across the united states for redistricting. this says, gop stranglehold in swing states saying in texas, north carolina, georgia, republican state lawmakers have created super majorities or have little down that the republican

advantage is virtually impenetrable. much of the attention on this year's redistricting is focusing on gerrymandering congressional maps, new maps have been distorted and state houses have taken on importance with the federal government gridlocked and they now serve as the policy crafting bills on abortions, guns, voting rights, and other issues that shape the national little debate. that is from the new york times. we go to jim and water borough, texas -- whitesboro, texas, i apologize, republican line. caller: i would like to repeat something i don't know if it was yesterday somebody called in. the "washington journal" gets a

lot of calls and the short of it is that a lot of people are at work and can't participate. i wonder if there could be a prime time edition. we are really getting a much lower voice. i was 20 if you could think about that. on the subject of electric -- i was wondering if you could think about that. on the subject of electric vehicles, i am concerned that we only have one place maybe in utah. i would like where people could

discuss where are these going to come from and what is involved in mining them. and places where the operations are going to go on, we think in united states that we have cool air because technology allows it . i'm concerned that the mining for the batteries will not have the environmental standards. we have seen in the past industries destroy environment and i feel like we kind of here in the united states, we think there is no harm.

host: from alexandria, virginia, this is aaron. caller: i have heard a lot of discussions this morning ken thank you very much. one of the largest things going on is the division in the united states. we are taking sides and partisanship discussions on as if there were only two sides. i know on c-span we have the republican, democratic, and independent, but what i find important is looking at how the divisions in the united states are seeking into the legal system and how there is still a separation of fact and fanaticism, for lack of a better word in looking at the politics. i just want to say to you happy holidays and enjoy kwanzaa if you celebrated it.

thank. host: yahoo! at george's representative marjorie taylor green called out kevin mccarthy it saying he does not have the full support of house publicans to become speaker even if the republicans take a majority in 2022. we know that kevin mccarthy does not have the full support to be speaker she said during an episode of a high pass that aired thursday. he doesn't have votes because there are many of us who are unhappy about the failure to hold republicans accountable while conservatives meet and others are costly taking abuse by the democrats. she said she was asking whether she respected the republican leadership, she said i can't respect leadership that expects some to be trampled on and abused and will throw us under

the voss. i am sick of it. more on yahoo! news. from texas, republican mind, jack, hello. caller: -- republican line, jack, hello. caller: i don't think the charging stations are going to work. you can't have them around everyplace that it needs to be. people in the suburbs and shoved in the, how are they going to do all of this. where are they going to get electricity from? they have to have power, oil, gas, somehow for the power source for the grid. there are going to be backups. it'll take you up to three hours to get 30 miles -- 300 miles. host: this is an open form.

we have 10 minutes to go. (202) 748-8000 four democrats, (202) 748-8001 republicans, (202) 748-8002, independent. for texans, (202) 748-8003. four interviews, from this president and comparing it, one right after my month in office, mr. biden has had a dozen one-on-one compared with more than 50 for mr. trump, when 100 for barack obama in the same period, according to west wing record keepers. if the pulpit is one of the most powerful tools of communication, mr. biden needs to rely on exchanges and taking only a few questions boarding helicopter. he does not have interviews with

others, even friendly venues have gone unvisited. the story adding it as rose garden strategy in fun rosie times as his approval ratings have sagged and his party confronts the tough outlook. some democrats have asked if the president has yielded too much control of the public narrative. that is from the new york times this morning. if you want to see that story. there is more if you want to look at it. baltimore maryland, on the line for others, hello. caller: real american citizen here. what the other fellow was trying to tell you about the ruling class or something, the ruling class is basically you folks and the politicians, mainly the

democrats. that includes joe biden in the white house. look at all the criminal activity amongst the democrat politicians. it is overwhelming. they spent at least four years investigating president donald trump and his entire family and what they come up with? there go to complaint was he was a racist. that is what you all go to when you don't have anything on the person. and then there are people who don't know better who go, yeah, that's right, he is a racist, yeah. that is who the real criminals are.

host: that is l.b. in baltimore. one thing you heard of the impeachment of their previous president was the steel dossier. on the front page of the washington post under the headline "questions in testify over the sourcing of the dossier," saying when the report was first issued and the people hired to british exit spy wanted to know his -- ex-spy wanted to know about his sources. the reply was firm, he was relying on a range of russian officials and a trump associate. five years later, intensifying questions about whether those involved in the dossier saga and the political operatives who

commissioned it to journalists and government officials who used it to obtain a warrant , much more on the story. read it online. this is gary, sterling, virginia, republican. caller: i'd like to say i'm an old time republican. that means i still have common sense and i believe in reason and logic. with that in mind, i would like to say this tragedy we are witnessing on the southern border is the result of all of these pro-life people slamming the policies and that is the reason we have this problem.

host: how did you come to that conclusion? caller: i work from 1994 to 2007 in 10 different restaurants. in 2005, george bush came on with his worker program. i walked in the back of the restaurant. nobody was watching that. after it was over i asked a guy, i said what do you want? he was indignant that i would ask him what he wanted. he was an illegal alien. host: how does that amendment factor into it? caller: he said he wanted help with birth control and a registered worker program. every one of these kids, out of 20, they averaged six or seven brothers and sisters. host: we will go to jerry in

ohio, republican line. caller: i would like to have a shout out to all the people who called from ohio. i listen to all the time. but i just want to ask about the electric car. why don't they have generators to recharge the battery? there is nothing made today that doesn't have a generator to recharge. in the grid is going to be enormous to put all of these electric charging stations. it is going to be a ridiculous amount of electric. host: to the electric cars, do you believe that many people will own electric cars in the near future? caller: no, i don't. they are too expensive.

they are way too expensive. the rich people, yeah, they will have them probably, but that is not going to solve the problem that the green people want the earth to be. i am all for clean air and stuff, but something that amazes me is china, russia, and all the other countries are polluting way more than we ever thought about. where do you think it is coming to? it is coming to us. it will hit california and people think it is going to be all clean air, no it ain't. host: this is marie, democrats line, san diego. caller: good morning. i want to say something about the electric cars. my family has four of them right

now. even though i have a gas guzzler , i would, if i had it to do over again, get the electric cart for myself. when my car is donated, i can walk. i won't do anything that will hurt this environment. the democrats care about the environment. i would hope that the rest of the people would to. host: that is marie in san diego, finishing off this round of open forum. coming up, a discussion on relations between the u.s. and iran, as resumption of talks over iran's nuclear program slated for next week.

that discussion when "washington ♪ >> american history tv, saturday on c-span two. explore and the people and events that tell the american story. at 11:00 a.m. on lectures in history, abram engen of washington university explores how the pilgrims became part of the united states' founding story. then, at 1:00 p.m. president nixon's senior domestic policy and wiser if they behind-the-scenes view of the 37th president's domestic agenda, to include guaranteed family income, a national health insurance program, and support for children's nutrition. watch the weddings of two first daughters at the white house. at 2:00 p.m., president lyndon johnson's daughter.

december 9, 1967. then, at three: 10:00 p.m. p.m., president nixon's daughter, on june 12, 1971, in the first rose garden wedding. >> mr. gorbachev, tear down this wall. >> the hoover institution and the ronald reagan presidential foundation and institute hosted a look back at the evolution of president reagan's tear down this wall speech. the white house speechwriter behind the address, peter robinson, participated. exploring the american story. watch american history tv saturday on c-span2, and find a schedule on your program guide, or watch online at c-span.org/history. caller: "washington journal" continues. host: joining us now is in a bin

tale blue, he is with the foundation for the defense of democracies. -- benham ben taleblu, he is with the foundation for the defense of democracies. remind people about the organization and the position it takes when it talks about issues of foreign affairs? guest: fdd was founded after 9/11, almost exclusively focusing on terrorism issues, and has broadened out to cover other foreign issues. it takes a broadly internationalist, perhaps more interventional list, stance. some have said hawkish. i think it is a bit more of an objective label, but you could say that the organization favors more engagement, rather than, you know, isolation in select theaters around the world. host: as far as how the organization is funded, how would you describe that?

guest: it is a nonprofit. you can look at the funding online. it takes funding from americans, and it is proud to not take any foreign government funding. host: when you talk about matters of engagement and the approach you take, one of the issues coming up next week deals with iran. can you describe what is expected next monday? guest: next monday has been an event that has built up for quite some time. there were six rounds of indirect nuclear diplomacy involving the u.s. and european powers and other parties to this 2015 nuclear deal called the jcpoa. the trump administration had a policy of maximum pressure. the biden administration has something -- has tried something drastically different. between april and july of 2021, there were six rounds of diplomacy. there was no resumption of that

deal. this is the first time since iran has had a mid-present -- a new president, a new heart-line cabinet, that the prospects for diplomacy have been re-up. and if people are looking at what he runs opening position will be. if you are looking at what they are saying in the persian language space, they have taken a hard-line stance toward these negotiations, despite all of the nuclear escalation thus far by the islamic republic of iran. they are saying they don't want to talk about the nuclear issue. they only want to talk about sanctions relief. that will be a very tough circle to square for the biden administration and the europeans, who are motivated by nonproliferation motives. this year iran has done things in the nuclear space that have -- that they threatened to do a decade ago but never felt comfortable doing. one example is enrichment at

high levels, to 60% purity. host: was that an reaction for the previous administration pulling out of the deal, and as far as advancing network? guest: it is a great question, because iran, despite having its contest against america, has had a somewhat clear policy since the u.s. left the nuclear deal in 2018. during the first year it had a policy of strategic patients, where thought -- where it thought that washington's unilateral sanctions cannot create the same kind of macro economic pain that alter lateral he had been built up a decade prior. once they saw they were wrong and within one years time the u.s. could re-create it, the iranians moved from a policy of strategic patients to what i call graduated escalation.

it was significant in the region. if you remember the summer of 2019, or multiple flashpoints between the u.s. and iran. a resumption of rocket attacks against positions in iraq. gradually they are publicly unwinding the nuclear deal, talking about how his actions were reversal. with the election of joe biden, and, you know, u.s. domestic politics being on full display at the end of 2020, the change in administration, the u.s. was shifting from a policy of maximum pressure to maximum deference under the incoming biden administration. despite the softer line, iran ramped up its nuclear program and its regional escalation. it went from what we call gradual escalation to overt, or significant escalation. since then it has done things like enriched uranium to 20%

purity, begin enriching radium -- enriching uranium to 60% purity, developing uranium metal , and seriously phasing in advanced centrifuges, and seriously beginning to impede and hamper the access of the international atomic energy agency inside iran. given all of this nuclear history, that is why many have their eyes on november 29 as a way to put nuclear -- iran's nuclear program back in the box host: (202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. independents, (202) 748-8002. you can text us at (202) 748-8003. will the usb be directly involved in these talks? guest: the way the previous rounds have been is indirect diplomacy.

buy it no longer being a party to the jcpoa, it would have the europeans shuttle back and forth between the iranians and other remaining members. those members where the russians and chinese. it is assumed that same role of the european interlocutory, will continue. host: as far as this round, what is expected to happen? give us the expected day. guest: november 29 is the day they will meet in vienna. in the past sometimes these rounds go on for five days. usually they will agree to meet again. my assumption is that you might have one more meeting before the end of 2021. during these three or four days we will learn a lot about the iranian position. the outgoing government had six rounds of indirect nuclear diplomacy. will the current hard-line governments begin where the

rouhani administration left off? what will they do? this is a question. the other question is, how firmly will they hold some of the public redlines that the supreme leader of iran -- that is a title meant to be taken very literally. he is in charge of the country's foreign and security policy. he is the arbiter of major matters. he is the one who will give them a green light to press ahead or not. we'll see how much leeway he has given these negotiators. but we should keep our eyes on the prize here. as washington is trying very hard to get back into this deal it is unfortunately left some enforcement of existing penalties that are on the books slip. iran, even though it has not met yet with the u.s., has been watching what the u.s. is doing, has been drawing inferences about the botched withdrawal

from afghanistan, about the lack of existing penalties, and trying to make assumptions about how firmly u.s. commitments are to go to what many have called a plan b, in case these talks collapse. host: i will take you back in time. this is late august. the president is before his meeting with the prime minister, talking about iran's nuclear ambitions. i will play you what he had to say back then. pres. biden: we are also going to discuss the threats from iran and our committee and that he ran never develops a nuclear weapon. -- that iran never develops a nuclear weapon. if diplomacy fails we are ready to turn to other options. we will support israel's developing deeper ties with muslim neighbors, and globally. host: that said, how do you interpret that? guest: that was a very neat, natural follow on to that other

term i used, plan b. many have been talking about, what is america's plan b? and what is iran's plan b if these negotiations do not pan out? there is a lot of reason for skepticism, given how firm iranians have held to these redlines in the past before they have come to negotiations. and, of course, their desire to extract premature concessions. they really do want to spike the great satan. they want to spike the united states of america. a reminder, why is iran holding out? not only is it emboldened, and some of the inferences about, will the biden administration push back on iran-backed proxies , but also, it believes that it's plan b, escalation options, are more serious. and it is more comfortable doing

it than america's plan b. major figures under the donald trump presidency had been denigrating the u.s.-iran policy then, so it is an opposition for biden to be talking about more pressure and many of his staff had been denigrating pressure. in essence they forgot how the 2015 nuclear deal came about, which is through u.s. and eu and he went pressure. this is one reason why iran has been comfortable with escalation. when biden talks about plan b, he talks about diplomacy first. you see that in the behavior of the behavior of the biden administration. it does not believe that coercive diplomacy can exist at the same time. that is why several times in 2021, despite that rod array of

nuclear violations i had discussed, the u.s. and its european partners did not censure iran's nuclear advances, nuclear violations. it believed that any kind of pressure would push iran further away from the table, rather than bring it to the table. to me, that is an incorrect lesson. it has talked a lot about a closing window. it has talked about a diminishing runway, a closing door for diplomacy. the administration has not shut it yet. one of the reasons is, it is increasingly uncomfortable of moving to these more pressure-based options. whether that is deployment of troops to the region, a tightening of military ties in the region, a resumption of sanctions policy. the iranians know this, and that is why they are trying to extract as much upfront.

host: grant, good morning, go ahead. caller: i would like to remind americans that the greatest blow against the nuclear nonproliferation regime occurred back in the 1960's after israel went nuclear, despite the intense efforts of the kennedy administration to inspect the weapons production facility. and tackle the extremely destabilizing threat that israel presents, not only to the region, but to the world. jimmy carter acknowledged that israel has over 100 nuclear weapons, and it is actually illegal under amendments to the foreign aid laws to give aid to nuclear countries outside the npt. i would like to encourage people to call their members of congress to blockade until the

question of israel's nuclear weapons is dealt with. host: that is grant in washington, d.c. mr. taleblu, go ahead. guest: there are many interesting books written on israel's nuclear program. there is one for work by abner: i would recommend to take a more nuanced look but i would highly disagree with the framing of the threat in the region. when iran previously under the shah had been developing weapons and had been developing a civilian nuclear program with the potential weapons off roads, according to u.s. intelligence, their assessment of the shah's efforts were status-based. moreover, i think it is interesting to note in the past few years what you have seen

with the abraham accords, with the tightening of ties between israel and some of the traditional u.s. partners in the region. some of the growth cooperation council states. uae, saudi, informally. that is not the issue the caller has made it out to be, and many of these states have been able to put aside their differences, given the 800 pound elephant in the room, it is rising republic of iran, and one that could be nuclear-armed. host: the new york times reporting said this about israel's role. saying, american officials morning there is really counterparts that attacks on ukrainian nuclear facilities are counterproductive. -- on irani and nuclear facilities are counterproductive. how does that affect this discussion of iran's nuclear program?

guest: there are different approaches taken to counter proliferation efforts. the u.s. has preferred the iranian nuclear program. more diplomacy, more talks. when it comes to pressure, lots of sanctions. then only selectively acts of sabotage. other sorts of forms of pressure. when you look at the strings of assassinations or or recently the summer of nuclear sabotage, the summer of 2020 when many of iran's new facilities were subject to cyber attacks or other sorts of explosions, many had pointed a finger to other foreign intelligence services. many of those people pointed the finger at israel, looking at these counter proliferation options. time not to the new york times story, i think those unnamed u.s. officials sharing that

information probably read these sorts of efforts of counter proliferation as spurring iran to continue further rather than hindering their program. i think each one can be subject to a technical debate or assessment. host: this is a viewer off of twitter saying, why would iran negotiate with the united states when another republican can get elected and throw out any agreement? guest: that is a good point. to take us back to 2015, it was then-senator tom cotton had written an open letter, an op-ed to iran, reminding them that the way this nuclear agreement was being finalized was in such a manner that a future u.s. administration could easily withdraw. technically the document is not even signed. the caller's right to say that unless this is finalized in the form of a treaty than there is going to be -- then there is

going to be an impetus to withdraw. the way things are shaping up domestically, it is clear a withdrawal of the jcpoa or whatever agreement the biden administration is going to get, if that is not in the form of a treaty, is going to be in the cards of any future republican presidency. how does iran factor into this? quite simply. iran should be incentivized to come clean, to actually do a full deal. otherwise they can expect continuing seesaws between different administrations and partisan politics in washington. it is a shame that the issue has become partisan. there was a time that it was not, especially on capitol hill. but those days are long gone and our adversaries understand that. host: brett, searchlight, nevada, independent line. caller: you have been talking about israel, but after the

democrats pulled funding from the iron curtain, not sure if they put it in and did it anyways. how much patience do you believe that israel will have with iran on their nuclear proliferation, and how much pole to think the biden administration would have? guest: i think the caller asks a very important question, which is, what is israel's redline for military action? i want to divide two segments of the iran threat. one is iran in the region, and one is iran's nuclear program. in the region you have seen israelis for many years now do significant operations inside syria and territory against facilities where hezbollah, against the islamic revolutionary guard corps.

israel has been trying to hold back the wave of iran-backed proxies and militias, which are slowly beginning to come up towards israel's borders. there is a strategy the regime has. we like to call it the land bridge in washington, which is a contiguous territory that allows the regime to exert power through this land corridor into the eastern mediterranean. militarily that redline has already been crossed and israel has been working on pushing back on that, kinetically. on the nuclear side, this is an open question. there are some who say the fact that israel has been talking about it means a president may not have the capability to do the type of operation there it did in iraq in 1981 war in syria in 2007. we should think about what the iranians are taking about. we see high levels of israeli capability to combat iran's proxies.

a willingness to go through these escalation matters. to continue these counter proliferation operations and other types of information operations. ultimately the iranians feel more deterred at the moment by the potential for some sort of israeli military action, because i think with the garrow of afghanistan and the desire of presidents to leave the reason, you can say there is less of a direct u.s. military deterrence to iran going into a weapons state. as background, prior to 2002, with the seizure of the israeli nuclear archive, iran wanted a crash program for up to five nuclear weapons. this stuff is now public. really it was the u.s. invasion of iraq and other things that gave the hope order and restructuring of iran's nuclear program potential civilian and potential weapons. that gives you the shape and

scale and scope of the program that you have today. ultimately that was the moment of iran being deterred by potential u.s. military pressure. now that that is being rolled back, israel is the next outsized capable state. no one knows what that redline would be. host: benham ben taleblu with us for our discussion. we will hear from ben in crystal river, florida on our line for republicans. good morning. ahead read you are on. caller: good morning. i would like to know, given your history of everything that transpired as of now, let's talk about a hypothetical. you have control of this situation. you, personally. how would you counter iran from today going forward? guest: well, i forgot who said

this -- i think it was william f buckley junior when he ran for mayor in new york and they asked him, you know, what would you do, what would your first act be if you are elected mayor? he said, i would ask for a recount. the first thing i would do is say, who put me in charge? there is at a minimum a three-pronged approach the u.s. should be taking. prong one is diplomatic, prong two is diplomatic, prong three is in the military domain. you want to make sure you have no daylight or gray space between you and your partners. that means no daylight between you and europe, no daylight between you and israelis, and you and the gcc states. looking to create a coordination or body to make sure all of the messaging on iran is the same. next, on the diplomatic front,

referring to iran's nuclear file back to the board of governors for an emergency session. the u.s. said it would do this if these talks collapse. really get that resolution on the books, get a public about how far iran's nuclear program has gone. about the impediments to the iea's mission for monitoring in iran. step three is, work with your partners in the joint commission. this is a body created by the 2015 nuclear deal, and it is still active based on the lingering participants. escalate the nuclear file and move it back to the security council. using the mechanism of the deal you can collapse the deal on itself. you can fight the noncompliance matters, debate it, move it to the security council, and collapse resolution 2231 through this thing called snapback, and restore the baseline for multilateral pressure against

the republic that existed at the united nations between 2006 and 2010. you have more stringent penalties and a more stringent baseline from which to operate. step two is -- host: go ahead. sorry about that. guest: i have use on this. step two is economic. once you have that diplomatic baseline you can begin to enforce existing multilateral sanctions, begin to work with partners such as the u.k., which post-brexit has an independent sanctions shop. her majesty's treasury is the world's second biggest sanctions shop. with all of the states that do not want to do tough penalties, they have the opportunity under this economic pressure policy to go after tehran's missile programs, drone programs, terrorism. it doesn't have to be nuclear only. you want to enforce the penalties you have received, and

keep adding to the pressure through treasury designations, perhaps even action through congress. lastly, in the military domain want to make sure the arabs in the region can coordinate more, he want more public military drills, you want to make sure the u.s. is working overtime with its gcc partners to make sure they have what they need to defend themselves. it also you want to make sure that the air and missile defenses, particularly the u.s.-supplied once work. that there are shooters in the region. and you also want to have a more kinetic pushback policy on proxies in places like iraq and syria. every time they do fire rockets and drones, and the u.s. absorbs that, that will underwrite the escalation in the future. taken together, this is stuff that can begin to change iran's calculus and signal how serious you are about wanting to negotiate in good faith and not just coming up with redlines.

sorry to talk over you. host: it is ok. wall street journal saying it was the head of the iea saying they left without failing to come up with some type of plan with inspections. how much resistance is iran currently giving to the inspections process? guest: if there is anyone i feel bad for -- and my heart goes out to -- it is the head of the international atomic energy agency. this man has worked overtime to go to tehran several times to find patchwork agreements, to try to get iran to hold its feet to the fire a little bit longer, to try to find workarounds on some of iran's nuclear violations. to do what it takes to verify iran has been rolling back. the iaea has faced numerous challenges, not only those created in 2021. including harassment of female

nuclear inspectors inside iran. this is a story that got a brief amount of publicity, but i think it is gross. of course, the unanswered questions about the man-made traces -- the traces of man-made uranium at three different sites from 2020. the ie -- the iaea did not receive sufficient answers. there are lots of things the regime has done to cut at the eyes and ears and inspection capabilities of the iaea inside iran. they are doing this intentionally. they are doing this to put blinders on while growing the program, to generate concerns, to force the west to come to the table and give up everything upfront. this is part of a concerted campaign by the iranians. he is the head of a technical agency. he has a narrow mission. he is trying to verify that narrow mission and is being impeded by all sides. he has gone to tehran several

times this year to keep this monitoring intact. this pessimism should be a warning for the binding administration about what is next on the iran nuclear file. host: this is a viewer from twitter saying, does iran want nuclear capability so badly because it wants to be at the g20 table? they just want to be heard. adding that, nuclear arms got india and pakistan at the table. guest: if we are talking about the g7, g 12, g20, i believe those are qualified by their economies iran has shown that the islamic republic -- not to privatize the economy, not to put toward ties the national interest -- not to privatize the national interests, but nonconventional military programs. ultimately the regime has decided and voted on what kind of state it wants to be.

it is trying to change the system, it is not trying to rise from within the system. the caller did cite something i think it is important to note. in most of the literature on states with nuclear aspirations, and that is status aspiration. it is our to be seen as a rising power. that is certainly driving iranian capability. i would say most of the world's nuclear programs, if not all of them, are driven by those two forces. status and security. both of them orient and animate the islamic republic's quest today. host: from brian. brian joins us from michigan. republican line. go ahead. caller: can you hear me, pedro? host: you are on, go ahead. caller: i spent a lot of time in the middle east. i heard a lot of talk. it sounds good. it sounds intellectual. nuanced. [laughter]

it's all about supply and demand and what you need in the world. saudi arabia is the biggest kingpin in the middle east. they always have been. they are pretty much in control of opec. trump has proven if you take our needs part down, which trump was doing, they will fall in line much better, because that is the only real product they have out of their. we can shut down the whole persian gulf at any time, but we don't want to do that. you need to deal straight with saudi arabia. saudi arabia goes to the middle east, on women's rights in particular, there is no reason. trump has proven to the united states, should have proven to you, that we do not need as much fossil fuel coming out of opec as we have been bending over for in the past. host: what would you like him to address specifically? caller: it is the monetary thing. you should talk about economics.

economics, number one, applies to china. you do not deal with people that you should not be dealing with when you have other choices. host: ok, we will leave it there. guest: i think the caller's right to point out some of the energy issues and his right to point out the half-decade or so of increasing american energy independence, changes to u.s. supply and demand when it comes to things we have here in the states, things we actually export. as well as the very helpful saudi role through out much of the different periods of the u.s. sanction regime under bush, obama, and trump, and making sure the markets are still well supplied and other purchasers had alternatives. i do see the saudi arabia-u.s. connection still acting more and concert than in conflict with one another when it comes to the politics of oil. caller mentioned china.

china is a hydrocarbon economy would eric, very dependent on persian gulf oil. not just iran, but by other countries in the region. as the u.s. begins to leave or prioritize other theaters, it is going to be exactly these actors that are going to be interested in furthering economic ties, furthering political ties, and potentially military ties with those countries. host: from anthony. anthony in pennsylvania, green town, pennsylvania. good morning. go ahead. guest: good morning, pedro, and good morning to your guest. he is very informative. i appreciate the conversation. the jcpoa was never going to keep iran from getting nuclear weapons. it was a joke. inspection criteria were a joke. nobody was ever going to see

their military parts of their nuclear program. 72 hour inspection notices was ridiculous. my question is, if donald trump had remained president, where would be -- where would we be now in the iranian proliferation of their nuclear weapons, and do they perceive joe biden as weak and they can get away with anything with this guy? guest: that is a very interesting question. an interesting counterfactual, because while the iranians do paint both sides of the aisle with a broad spectrum, over the past 10 years or so, particularly with their engagement that led up to the jcpoa, they have begun to understand some of the gradations between both sides of the aisle, between isolationist, internationalist, republican, and democrat.

they have tried to flush that out and some of their policies. in this counterfactual we can postulate that trump would have continued the maximum pressure policy. to me that would have been a net benefit. a net minus would have been, iran had showed it was willing to escalate in response to some of this pressure and undercut the policy by creating more risks in the region. if you remember two or three times in the summer of 2019 the u.s. and iran almost went to war. the trump administration had a high bar for the use of force and some of these places. that bar is good, but it also means it may have incentivized the adversary to escalate. for that, i think the criticism i had of that policy was not that it was not effective. it really did not have enough time. i think if you look at iran in negotiating behavior in the past, iran said against iraq,

war until victory for seven years, then in here eight the supreme leader likened ending the conflict as akin to drinking poison. i totally think that was the point of the maximum pressure policy. i think it was possible. it was to me more a question of when rather than if that engagement would happen. there also are concerns around the previous administration, about having a regional pushback. i mentioned places like iraq. what was the u.s. going to do there? the second was, once negotiations would commence, hypothetically had there been a two-term trump administration, given the president had talked about wanting to publicly engage iran, what would have happened

to those 12 points then? would they have melted away? it is an unknown unknown, to borrow secretary rumsfeld there. the broad contours is, it would have been a question of when, not if, if iran would have engaged in good faith. even revolutionaries have to obey macro economics. host: what is the u.s. position on sanctions? there was a report on npr said they would not lift sanctions until they saw something on iran when it comes to taking steps toward easing back its program. what are the options? if that is the case, what are the options going forward? guest: just to know where we are, there has been some informal sanctions relief, for instance, that the u.s. has eased pressure on iran's proxies. removed the who these from the foreign terrorist organization -- houthis from the foreign terrorist organization list.

there have been cases pursuant to lawsuits, rather than action directed by the department themselves, that have taken iranian entities off of the u.s. sanctions list. there has been a couple of times due to "good sanctions hygiene," and there has been elicited oil shipping the could be better enforced. there has been some informal relief granted by the biden administration, which has tried to pursue this middle course, which is keep the penalties, but do not actively enforce them. i think after monday and however long that session is, vigorously, vigorously enforce the penalties that they have inherited, and also do that which was reported in reuters yesterday or the day before, it was to call for an extraordinary session of the iea board of governors and develop a multilateral, baseline for pressure to work with your

partners through the u.n. system to show the iranians they cannot divide the transatlantic community, like they try to in the past. host: one more call. this will be from allen in new york. independent line. caller: i just have agreed -- a brief comment about domination of the world. the people of caller -- of color, in africa, the middle east, and china -- the europeans have been looking for world domination, period. all of these talks about globalism and all of these negotiations is ludicrous. the mere fact of the matter is that the united states government has proxy israel to be using gunboat diplomacy in that region. those people out trying to fight for their life and their sovereignty as a people.

host: that is allen in new york. mr. taleblu? guest: i would take a sharply different approach to the way the u.s. conducts itself in the region. i have a very different analytical assessment, therefore i would respectfully disagree with the caller. when you look at the way the islamic republic has behaved, it has managed to bring other adversaries together. i mentioned the iran-iraq war. it is not like the u.s. has harbored some anti-regime tendency as soon there was an islamic republic. look at the onset of the war, the cia tried to warn iran that saddam's iraq was moving tanks. the iranians rebuffed them. there are multiple instances of iranians missing instances to bridge this gap. this is not a story -- i forget what the caller said, domination or supremacy -- this is a story

of a regime that has fused islamism and if you other ideologies from the cold war era, brought it into the 21st century, and wants a revisionist foreign policy and is spending its own nation blood and treasure to do it. host: fdd.org, that is the foundation for the defense of democracies. benham ben taleblu serves as a senior fellow. guest: thank you so much. host: we will finish off the program with another round of open phones. if you want to participate, to a and start calling now. (202) 748-8000 free democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. and independents, (202) 748-8002 . we will take those calls when "washington journal" continues. ♪ >> next week, congress returns

monday at 3:00 p.m. eastern with the senate continuing work on the defense authorization bill. watch the senate live on c-span2. on tuesday, live on c-span3, the d.c. circuit court of here's oral arguments in trump v. thompson, considering the request for the national archives to release former president trump's call logs surrounding the attack on the capital. we will have live coverage of two hearings on c-span.org and the c-span now mobile app. a subcommittee hears from consumer safety advocates on holiday product safety concerns, such as counterfeit toys and malfunctioning decorations. also, treasury secretary janet yellen and jerome powell testified before the senate committee on their agencies use of covid-19 relief funds. they return to capitol hill wednesday to appear before the house financial services committee. that will stream on c-span.org

and the c-span now mobile app. also wednesday on c-span3, u.s. supreme court hears argument in dobbs v. jackson women's health organization, a case on the constitutionality of the mississippi law banning most abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy. watch next week, or you can watch our coverage on c-span now, our new mobile video app. also head over to c-span.org for scheduling information or to stream video live or on-demand at any time. c-span. your unfiltered view of government. ask "washington journal -- >> "washington journal" continues. host: texting is also available. if you want to do that, (202) 748-8003. more on concerns about variance. leaders signal alarm over the

most significant variant identified yet. the discovery has prompted several european and asian nations to suspend flights from south africa. this is the most significant variant we have encountered to date, and the urgent research is underway to learn more about its transmissibility, severity, and vaccine susceptibility. that was the chief executive for the u.k. health agency. also, if you watch the stock market, the market itself reacting to news about this variant. a drop of 800 points, sparking that market selloff. you can comment on those issues during these -- this open forum, if you wish, or politics, or public policy that are interesting to you. from west virginia, this is jerry on our republican line. go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my

call. first of all, i have been a democrat all my life. 47 years, i voted democrat. they are scaring me to death today. host: you are calling on our republican line, so are you a democrat? caller: not now. i just went to republican. last monday i changed my registration. what i would like to know is, who are the 27% in this country that is -- i hear it every day on your channel. they call in and give biden an a? that man has failed at everything and democrats have failed at everything they have done. host: you said you were a democrat before last monday, why has it changed? caller: really i have been wanting to change before this, that i just got the chance last monday. that is after seeing what the

democrats are doing. host: ok, let's go to joe in minnesota, republican line. good morning. caller: good morning, how are you? host: i'm fine, thank you. caller: it is chilly here. it got down to about one with the wind chill factor. i dog was almost like a popsicle. [laughter] no, he's ok. last guy, i love him. he is a great guy. my mother was a democrat for all her life, you know? we are from north dakota, which is definitely a republican state. her deal was this. republicans are for the rich and democrats for the poor. it is not true. the republicans are for conservatism and the democrats offer liberalism. trump did the best he could. he probably did the best of any president in the last 20 years.

biden has completely screwed up the country, he really has. host: that is joe in minnesota. when it comes to issues of retail spending on this black friday, the wall street journal saying that consumer spending overall beginning to look like 2019, the comparison they make. saying, none of that should be surprising. there were 5.8 million more u.s. jobs in october than a year earlier. in conjunction with the stimulus checks and the tiled -- and the child tax credit payments, that boosted many people's spending power. moreover, a year ago only people who had received vaccines were participants in trials. it says that mobility data from google shows that business to retail and recreation sites were down by 5% during the past month versus their pre-pandemic baseline. that is an improvement. during the same period lasted

they had been 17% lower. there is more at the wall street journal if you want to read it. the tear from dorothy in international falls, independent line. caller: hello there. host: hi, you are on. caller: i would like to say, why does congress need to have a bill to negotiate drug prices? the veterans negotiated it. did they have to have a bell? also, i think all of those things in the bill, build back better bill, are horrible. to have 85,000 new irs agents to check on us, and also the open border, is horrible. i used to be a strong democrat, but i am independent now. thank you. host: diane is from ohio, in barberton, ohio. democrats line. caller: good morning. contrary to what other people are saying on this line, the

build back better bill is going to help senior citizens. unless, of course, they want to give up their medicare they are always saying socialist, but that is a socialist program, whether they want to accept that or not. number two, i think joe biden is doing an excellent job. he had to clean up a mess of a mentally ill person, and you guys have to admit it. this is ridiculous, that people keep talking that it is his fault. the pipeline, that gas cannot be used in our cars. please, people, listen to this show. "washington journal" knows what they are talking about. thank you. host: from charlene, democrats line. hi. caller: i wanted to respond to the guy who called earlier.

that they had to lay people off during covid because they didn't have the work or because of restrictions. then when they try to ask them to come back the workers said they would rather stay home. that is not right. if you get called back to your job and you refused to go, you are -- your unemployment is supposed to be shut off. so i think we need to stop blaming the program that was honestly trying to help people and blame the dishonest people who are not telling the truth about job opportunities. host: when it comes to issues of rent, particularly people affected by the pandemic, political -- political reporting that one old idea starting to get traction with voters -- rent control. voters in minneapolis this month approved ballot initiatives to enable the 10 -- the twin cities to cap rent increases. boston's new mayor campaigned this year on restoring rent

control, an idea the acid used its governor has objected to, it says he will be willing to discuss to tackle housing woes. adding that supporters and opponents -- landlords are spending millions of dollars to fight back and preparing for the proposals to pop up in more cities. that story is in politico. cliff on our independent line. california. caller: morning, pedro. i'm talking about the fossil fuel companies and the tight grip they have in our government and politics. we subsidized them with billions of dollars. they make billions in profits. they pollute our planet. they have known about global warming for at least two or three decades, and we let them get away with it. they went to congress and pretty much ignored congress. talking about, you know, their

campaign to deny climate change. this is not sustainable. we need to do something about the grip the fossil fuel companies have on our politics and government. because it is destroying the planet and they are making billions. a lot of them don't pay any taxes and we keep subsidizing them for billions of dollars. we are paying them to help destroy the planet while they make billions in profits. it is not a sustainable system. host: democrats line from jacksonville, florida. this is mina. go ahead. caller: it is mina. i just wanted to jump in, because there are so many discussions going on about the state of the economy and people working or not working, and the holidays and everything. just a brief preview to my

history. i came to this country in 1976, before jimmy carter was voted in. i didn't know anything. i was 17 years old. i became a chemical engineer. i worked, had a family, had three children here. i've been in this country for 46 years. first of all, educate yourself, work hard, and then be grateful for the blessings of this country. in my country, venezuela, -- i mean, it is just, i still have family there. i two sisters there, a nephew, and a niece. inflation is 5500%. you know, he would be good for

people to put things in perspective and to be grateful for what they have. it is an unbelievable country and unbelievable life. host: mina in jacksonville, florida. we will hold the -- we will hear next from rob. good morning. caller: good morning, c-span. i wanted to say i think joe biden has done a horrible job with from the minute he took office and close the pipeline, laid off all of those workers. we are no longer oil independent. and he left americans stranded in afghanistan. that woman who called and said joe biden is doing a great job, i don't see one accomplishment he has made that is positive. our country is going down the tubes and it is the democrats' tube. andy rino's. host: senator manchin's next blow to liberals. this was posted two hours ago.

during his six years as governor, senator joe manchin developed a test he has taken to washington. our programs paid for? do they have bipartisan support? and do they solve a problem facing his constituents? it said under the why it matters section, the west virginia democrat wields unparalleled power, but in many ways he still thinks of himself as a state executive, with a practical street. that may spell trouble for president bidens spending plan as it moves to consideration in the senate. more there at the axios website. you can find it there at the axios website. barry in new jersey, republican line. go ahead. caller: i just wanted to say, these people need to give biden a chance. he just got there. you had the guy there for four years. you had a guy there who just

cared about himself and his family, and making money. if him a self -- give him a chance to do what he's got to do. host: as a republican, did you vote for joe biden? caller: i'm a democrat. host: i'm going to end it there, because we have asked people to call in on the lines that represent them. if you are a republican or a democrat, you can call on the line, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. and independents, (202) 748-8002 . you can also text us at (202) 748-8003. pick the line that best represents you. we will get those in. from the "washington times code this is about the transformation in the workforce. the report that scarcity of workers is causing some employers to raise wages and others to give employees a greater say in daily operations.

businesses are still struggling to retain workers and schools are canceling classes. experts saying this could last for years. a record 4 million-plus americans quit their jobs in september, suppressing the previous high in august. caller: i would like to comment on one of the previous comments a caller made. he was talking about the critical race theory about how europeans have always tried to dominate the world. i think his knowledge of history goes back about 10 minutes. and for the world history, he needs to look up attila the hun and he needs to look up mohammed's army and his janissaries, because it is just this present era that europeans are dominant. because we, the europeans, created industry, and that made

us dominant. host: ok, we get the point, wanda. we are out of time for this program. thanks to all of you who participated this morning. another addition of "washington journal" comes your way at 7:00. enjoy your thanksgiving weekend. we will see you tomorrow. ♪ [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2021] >> coming up, richard cordray, testifies about student loans and holding institutions that defraud students accountable, and later, consumer advocates testify about scams targeting

senior citizens during the pandemic, happening before the senate special committee on aging. >> c-span is your unfiltered of government. >> cox is permitted -- is committed to affordable internet. bringing us closer. >> cox supports c-span as a public service, giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> up next, a house hearing on student financial aid, the public service loan forgiveness program and the possibility of broader loan forgiveness. this is two hours 50 minutes.

>> this meeting will come to order. welcome everyone. i note for the subcommittee that mr keller of pennsylvania and mr fitzgerald of wisconsin are permitted to participate in today's hearing with the understanding that their questions will come only after all, members of the subcommittee on both sides of the aisle who are present have had an opportunity to question the witnesses. the subcommittee is meeting today to hear testimony on policies and priorities of the office of federal student aid. this is an entirely remote hearing. microphones will be kept muted as a general rule to avoid