>> the world has changed, today a fast reliable internet connection is something no one can live without. we are there for our customers with speed, reliability, value, and choice. now more than ever it starts with great internet. >> wow, supports c spab as a public service, along with these other television providers. giving awe front row seat to democracy. ngton journal" contin. host: turning out to the topic of the national flood insurance program, our guest is chad berginnis. before we get into the mechanics of the flood insurance program,

explained to us who your group is made up of and what your mission is. guest: absolutely, thank you for having me. the association is part of a national nonprofit organization with the mission of reducing flood risk in the nation and recognizing that national -- natural functions of floodplains. our nearly 7000 members are primarily comprised of local and state officials but also private sector consulting engineers, mappers, mitigation folks, and we are all working to try to have a more resilient future. host: a mission to reduce flood risk. is the mission getting harder as we

>> whether it's extreme precipitation inland or whether it's increased sea level rise or hurricanes. host: on the national flood insurance program, that's what

we are talking about in the final half-hour of the "washington journal," background on it. aks is to primary flood insleurns for americans. five million flood insurance policies are currently being provided to the tune of $1.3 trillion. that's the coverage as of october of last year. developed and implements flood plane management standards in this country. what's the current status of that program both its fiscal status and legislative status? guest: the nfip is an important program for the country it provides stable sustained availability of flood insurance, it also has led to the adoption of minimum land use and development standards for communities across the nation. over 20,000 communities there. yet today we find that nfip is over $20 billion in debt. and a large part due to pricing of the flood insurance product, but also in terms of legislative

status, the nfip is also up for re-authorization. the continuing resolution that congress just passed extended the program to february 18 of 2022. but there are legislative proposals right now looking at doing some reforms to the program. host: in this segment if you want to join the conversation as we talk about flood risk and flood insurance, it's split up regional -- regionally. 202-748-8001, dumb dumb. 202-748-8002. 202-748-8000. special line in flood risk areas it is 202-748-8002. why would somebody buy insurance for flood risk through the federal government? isn't there private insurance that sells flood insurance as well?

guest: private insurance is actually a fairly new phenomena. although private insurance has always been somewhat available. the reality is the reason why the national flood insurance program came into being is that the private sector thought that flood risk was just too risky to be punny to ensure in the country -- insure in the country. some of that changed over the last decade or so as we improved modeling and better understand where flood risk areas are. private insurers have begun to enter the market. so there are also private flood insurance alternatives. but the nfip has been there consistently since 1968. regardless of how the private market might ebb and flow, the nfip will likely need to be there. host: is it something that the federal government sees eventually turning over to the private market? this $1.3 trillion in coverage becoming something that's

regulated through the private sector? or is this something that's -- i guess we'll find out in the re-authorization process, whether the federal government want it is to continue. guest: i would say in the last 20 years or so there have been voices in congress and elsewhere saying that perhaps the federal government should get out of the flood insurance business, but i would be hard pressed to see that actually happening. at least in the near term. because the reality is we have seen on the private market, private insurers go into the market, come out of the market once losses are too great. and also again remembering the other benefits the nfip. over 20,000 communities have local codes that are now help protect against flooding. the nfip produces some of the best hazard maps in the world showing flood risk. it also has mitigation programs which help provide resources for at-risk existing buildings to make them more resilient to flooding. host: what happens if this

program is not re-authorized? guest: if the program's not re-authorized, then probably the most immediate impacts are in the real estate market where folks can't get necessary flood insurance policy. that's certainly compounded if there is not a private alternative available. i think if it didn't get re-authorized, from a long-term standpoint, there would be -- you would probably see communities not participating in the program. maybe rescinding the regulations. we wouldn't have flood mapping. we wouldn't be contributing resources to those existing at-risk buildings to mitigate them. host: these re-authorization processes are always a time when congress considers reforms to various programs. what are the reforms that are being proposed for the national flood insurance program? guest: every time the nfip is up for re-authorization reforms, there are literally dozens of reforms that ultimately even make it through congress and are

considered. from our point of view there are a number of reforms we are trying to support. one of those includes making sure that flood maps continue to be produced robustly and also include future conditions. on the flood plane management side, we are working on increasing and improving technical assistance through the program. we also want to see the mitigation parts of the flood insurance program strengthened through one of the coverages called increased cost to compliance. and then on the financial solvency of the program, we need to restruck tour the nfip so we are not incurring these massive amounts of debt and have the nfip financially right sized where that extra debt would actually no longer be a debt to the program, but would actually be paid for by congress in recognition of all the benefits that the nfip provides. host: assfp is the association

of state flood plane managers. they have a website that's easy to remember, floods.org. if you want to check them out. chad is the executive director. they are taking your calls or questions about the national flood insurance program. and this effort to reduce the risk and impacts of flooding. a question from twitter for you from tony who wants to know, how much flooding is coastal flooding, and how much occurs on river lines? it seems to me that riverline flooding is a function of land and water management. guest:p actually, both coastal and river rain flooding are a function of land and water management it's significant in different places. both coastal. in inland areas, the climate change impacts of more intense rainfall events, is making a type of flooding called urban storm water flooding.

much more significant than we have had before. de, good morning. you're on with chad. caller: i've got two comments if i may. first of all it's the needing he's talking about. number one, we turned this country into a cement jungle. the pictures he showed on there, you look around and every piece of flooding there is is on the streets of this country. you have 10 lanes of highway.

dwoip the fact is cement, buildings, rooftops all that urbanization increases the risk of flooding. and honestly, as -- from the standpoint of managing flood risk, we have not done a good enough job of managing that kind of flood risk. that urban storm water-type flood risk we are having. that's probably the kind of flood risk right now that we are seeing increase most rapidly. and a lot of that again is due to the fact we are getting more

rainfall. absorb the water but as you rightly point out, what's happening now on tops and roadways is that stuff immediately runs off, goes into the rivers and streams and makes the flooding go even higher. from a management standpoint much more robust stormwater measures that are focused on flood volume and water volume, not just water quality.

year-flood, versus a 1% annual return rate flood. it's no wonder we are where we are. we don't do a good job of explaining and the risk. you mentioned the storm water system. i hope you would address that. host: you're a cf.m., what is that? guest: first of all thanks for being a member. cf.m., certified flood plane hanger -- manager. brad prepared for and took an examine that confers that title

on him. brad is absolutely right on the mapping. let me ask wayne some of the dimensions of the mapping. i set this earlier. looking at it overall, we have some of the national best sets of flood maps around. that being said, we have only mapped one third of the coastlines in the country. flood mapping itself only identifies this kind of statistical and unique kind of 100 year flood plane or a 1% chance floodplain and it has a 500 year floodplain on there as well. the reality is we have multiple kind of flood risks. we have flood risks from urban storm water. we have flood risks from dam or levee failures or those just actually operating as they should.

what i always advise folks his use of flood map as a beginning -- beginning, not the end. they are to be used to say here is one kind of flood risk we need to be aware about if i am a person interested in buying a home or that kind of thing, i might call the community. each community has a designated flood plane manager. see if there are historical reports, those kinds of things. brad is absolutely right. we have messed it up by calling them flood insurance rate maps. now with the new program, other than showing where flood insurance is required, they really don't have much of a tie to flood insurance rates anymore. great comment. host: when you say we have this map, we know where they are but you are saying that we don't know where the water goes when it overflows the banks for those rivers and streams?

guest: yeah, that's correct. part of this conundrum is really a product of fema not having enough resources to map, to get the job done mapping the country so they had to prioritize resources and what fema had historically done is map areas with high risk. we are building new subdivisions on small creeks, rivers, and streams without risks. the likelihood is higher if fema has never mapped it. when development happens, you don't have a mapped flood risk a lot of times. development occurs, we don't know the flood risk, it encroaches on the floodplain. afterwards, now that there is risk, fema might map it and everyone is mad because fema put a flood plain on them. the flood risk has always been there. but we are doing it all backwards. i think one of the highest priorities we have is to get the job done mapping out risk in this country.

host: this is from twitter, how reflective of the actuarial risk is the pricing of federal flood insurance? guest: well we are in a great transition time right now. fema rolled out in october. risk rating 2.0. i would say that prior to risk rating 2.0, if you just looked at the facts about the program, the kind of speed for the. prior to that the nfip is in over $20 billion in debt. clearly there was something wrong with the writing. it was a simplified approach that hadn't been updated since the 60's. with 2.0, fema took the best practices of the insurance industry, consulted with used a lot of modeling techniques to come up with a modern rating system that used a lot of variables. to be honest we are still trying

to sort out what it means when it comes to the actual price. instead of writing properties and groups, each property is individually rated based on a number of variables, including things like distance from water or elevation above water or ground. whether you are in a coastal area or in land. on risk rating 2.0, fema has items out there. we are taking fema at their word that they put a lot of effort and time into that and the new risk rating structure should be much more sound than the old one. host: gold hill, oregon, darlene, good morning. caller: good morning. the federal government also needs to look at fire insurance in the western united states. many of us here are not able to

meet the insurance requirements to have fire insurance in an existing company. when you try to exchange companies, insurers are no longer ensuring areas that have had or may have forest fires. i personally believe the government needs to extend this. from just flood n sures, which mostly takes care of the east coast, to look at what's happening in the western united states. guest: that was actually an inciteful comment. two things maybe i want to say in response to that. we do have flood risk everywhere in the country from the desert southwest to the west coast to the midwest and east coast every state and most all of our communities do have flood risk. but i thought that was a very

insightful comment on fire insurance. and kind of going back to one of the earlier questions in terms of foreseeing the need for the federal government to be involved in the nfip. what you just heard is how a fully private hazard insurance works. in fact, there are coverage gaps in areas where insurers choose not to write in particular areas. it is my belief that one of the benefits the nfip you do have insurance available. what we need to be doing is ranking up the standards to make sure we are reducing risk by keep that tie with the nfip so that we are simultaneously making insurance available but also having good floodplane management standards so we are reducing risk and having insurance widely avail afnlt. host: how did you get into the world of flood management? guest: believe it or not, it was through the national flood

insurance program. when i was a sophomore in college at ohio state university, i went to an intern fair and a gentleman pulled me aside and we started talking about flood insurance. i needed an internship, i'll be honest wurks i was scared i was getting roped into having to go tour-to-door and sell insurance policies. but when this gentleman basically told me about the uniqueness of the nfip and the fact we would work more on the land use and codes and helping communities adopt standards and things, it really was intriguing. ever since 1993 when i was an intern at the ohio department of natural resources, i never looked back. it's just a very interesting field. fortunate to have been in it for a while. host: how many different states have you worked in? in your various roles. guest: i have actually worked in a lot of my career -- in ohio.

but i also was private sector. i did get to work nationwide in that role. in fact, one of the previous callers' comments, i remember working and updating the state hazard mitigation plan for the state of idaho. so i really got to get into earthquake and fire risk, which again, each of these hazards almost has its own unique science around it that you have to understand to understand the risk management. risk management and now i'm here in madison, wisconsin. largely physically in the midwest but i have work nationwide. host: we have just over to the house oversight and reform committee hearing that they are holding this morning by the national security subcommittee on terrorist threats facing the united states. we'll head there at 10a.m. eastern. we'll go to margie in pennsylvania.

margie on that line for those who live in flood risk areas. good morning. caller: i'm calling about national flood insurance. we had one in our house in 2018. and our insurance didn't cover. and the national flood insurance i heard from people that had it and we don't cover this or don't cover that. very annoying. if you pay insurance premiums every year. and then we called the counti' thid they -- said they had to meet a certain threshold to get insurance coverage for the area. we were left out in the cold. it's not right. thank you. host: what the national flood insurance program does and doesn't cover.