cohosts beckett graham and susan vollenwider talk about their podcast. join the conversation with phone calls, text messages, and tweet s. "washington journal" is next. ♪ host: good morning and welcome to "washington journal." the coronavirus pandemic is getting worse by the day in the united states, with schools and universities shutting down, professional sporting events delayed, and large jumps in that affected around the country. with the holidays days away, doctors and hospitals are worried a winter surge of covid-19 may bring the health care system to its knees with the sick and infected patients. divided administration is pushing to get as many vaccinated and boosted as possible -- the biden

administration is pushing to get as many vaccinated and boosted as possible, but there are still those who do not want to take a chance adding the vaccines. our question to you, what do you think about the current state of the coronavirus pandemic and the response? we will open up regional lines this morning. if you are in the eastern or central time zones, your telephone number is (202)-748-8000. if you are in the mountain or pacific times and, your telephone number is (202)-748-8001. keep in mind, you can text us at (202)-748-8003. and we are always reading on social media on facebook at facebook.com/c-span, on twitter at, @cspanwj, and you can always follow us on instagram, at, @cspanwj. we are seeing incredible jumps in members of the infected with covid-19 being reported from all around the united states. let's look at some headlines

this morning from throughout the united states. in new york city, "the new york times" has a story say new york is reported a record number of single day infections have coronavirus since the earliest days of the pandemic. you see the story from the new york times. also, the nfl has scheduled -- had to reschedule three games this weekend, including one for the washington football team amid an outbreak of coronavirus amongst the players of the teams. keep going around the country, the fox news has a story saying that the u.s. military has started disciplinary action against members of the u.s. military who refused to take the covid-19 vaccine. also, we have a story here in the capital region, where one of the largest school systems, the

prince georges county school system, has shut down and sent students back home for virtual learning in the middle of a huge jump of covid cases among students. finally, we have here where "the wall street journal," we see a u.s. appeals court has reinstated the biden administration's covid vaccine rules for large employers. we see all the stories from around the united states about what is going on with the covid-19 pandemic. we want to know what you think about what is happening with the covid-19 pandemic and the response. before we go to your calls, yesterday, at the white house covid briefing, the white house covid response coordinator warned him vaccinated americans about the upcoming dangers of the omicron variant and what actions the white house is you need to take now. here's what was said. [video clip] >> as we have explained in prior

briefings, the omicron variant is more transmissible, and her medical experts anticipate it will lead to a rise in cases. but unlike last winter, we now have the power to protect ourselves. our vaccines work against omicron, especially for people who get booster shots when they are eligible. if you are vaccinated, could test positive, but if you do get covid, your case will likely be asymptomatic or mild. we are intent on not letting omicron disrupt work and school for the vaccinated. you have done the right thing, and we will get through this. for the unvaccinated, you are looking at a winter of severe illness and death for yourselves, your families, and the hospitals he may soon overwhelm, so our message to every american is clear, there

is action you can take to protect yourself and your family , wear a mask and public, indoor settings, get vaccinated, get your kids vaccinated, and get a booster shot when you are eligible. we are prepared to confront this new challenge. we have plenty of vaccines and booster shots available at convenient locations and for no cost. there is clear guidance on masking to help slow the spread, and we have emergency medical teams to respond to surges as necessary, so this is not a moment of panic because we know how to protect people, and we have the tools to do it. but we need the american people to do their part, to protect themselves, their children, and their communities. the more people get vaccinated, the less severe this omicron

variant outbreak will be. 160,000 unvaccinated people have already needlessly lost their lives since june. this number will continue to go up until the unvaccinated take action. so, i will see it once more, get vaccinated. [end video clip] host: we want to know what you think about what is going on with the coronavirus pandemic and the response, not only from the government, but from private businesses, schools, and community organizations. let's start with sonny from maryland heights, missouri. good morning. caller: good morning. i have been listening to all kinds of news from all over the world. i do not just listen to fox or cnn, so people who tell the truth, dr. lee merritt, peter mccullough, these people tell

the truth. everyone else is essentially lying. omicron is weaker than all the other variants, even though it is more transmissible, but the original coronavirus is only .03 mortality rate. this is all rain washing. alex jones was right. host: are you saying that you do not believe that the 800,000 people who have died so far from this died of covid-19 and you think they died of something else? i think he hung up. let's go to ethan, calling from bay cliff, texas. good morning. ethan, are you there? ethan, going one more time. all right, lorene from redwood city, california. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to say that every

american that is not vaccinated is being very un-american, and they are scum as far as i'm concerned. host: what do you think should be done at this point because we are seeing the numbers of people infected with whatever variant of the coronavirus you want to talk about, delta, alpha-beta, we are seeing the numbers go up, so it should be done to stop the rise? caller: i think there should be drastic vaccine mandates. there is no reason why every american should not have a shot in their arm. there is no reason why coronavirus should be running rampant in the country, and it is all because of these trumpers that are throwing a tantrum because donald trump lost and did not get credit for the virus. that is all this is about, and they should be mandated to get a vaccine right away. host: let's talk about the word mandate. when you say people should be mandated to get the vaccine, are

you talking about everyone? are you talking about people in public jobs? all children? who do you think should be mandated to have the vaccine? caller: unless you have a medical condition that does not allow you to get a vaccine, you should have to get a vaccine. if you are a child and cannot have it, that is fine, you should not get it. unless you have a medical problem or the medical teams have said you cannot have a vaccine, everyone should be mandated. i do not care who you are, your religion, you should be mandated to have a vaccine. this is because trumpers are mad donald trump lost i did not get credit for the vaccine. i have heard it all over. this is all because of donald trump, and i am sick and tired of hearing it. host: let's go to maggie from roseburg, oregon. good morning. caller: good morning.

thank you for taking my call. i wanted to say something, make a comment, and ask you a question. i served in a military 35 years, and i am also a nurse. i saw what was happening to my soldiers when they were given the experimental anthrax. my father-in-law died after taking the moderna. the spikes proteins caused him two heart attacks. my mother took the moderna, and she died eight days after my father-in-law on the fourth of september from taking it. she had pre-existing health conditions. they should've have known better than to give her that. i lost two cousins, a fourth and second cousin, to taking the pfizer within the last month and a half. i personally believe that saying trumpers are the ones to be blamed for this or that they are stomping their fits, i, licensed nurse. i have seen with these so-called

inoculations have done to family members. i lost four family members in the last months to taking pfizer and moderna. if you are going to out there say that when it comes to abortion, my body, my choice, i as a military member and nurse aide, it is my body and my choice, and they really feel -- i don't know how you feel about this -- but i really feel that all of this hype and the cdc jumping back and forth, wear that mask, where a double must, when i wear a mask, i am breathing back my own bacteria, and it is unhealthy and causing worse respiratory problems and i already have when i wear a mask. host: first, condolences to you for the loss of your family members. the first thing you said was you saw what happened with the military and the anthrax vaccines. tell us what you mean by that.

are you same people died from getting the anthrax vaccine? caller: i know three personally did died the military tried to cover it up. i know my soldiers were going over seas during desert storm, and they said they were given so many vaccines and were not told. host: so they did not know it was the anthrax vaccine or something else? they'll just blaming it on the anthrax vaccine? caller: they were told about the anthrax, and they said they started breaking out in rashes, women were coming back in their early 20's who never had children, and they had to start wearing [indiscernible] the rest of their life. host: the next thing is you said you lost four members after they took the coronavirus vaccine. was the cause of death declared to be the vaccine, or was it declared to be something else? caller: what it was was blood clots went throughout their body

after attacking their hearts and lungs. everything is covid because the government will give every hospital in additional 30 to $36,000 for every covid death listed. host: so the actual cause of death was from the coronavirus, not the vaccine? caller: it was listed also as blood clots throughout the body. host: that's good wade from florence, south carolina, good morning. caller: good morning. i am very concerned about the way they are turning it back -- turning their back on science. very concerned about that. host: in what way? what are you talking about? caller: well, i feel like i am being constantly lied to and manipulated to go along with the

pharmaceutical industry, which is huge. they contribute about 75% of income of my news stations in south carolina, and they do in your state, too, wherever you are. it is huge. you seek equal ads, ask your doctor about this, ask your doctor about that. they have beautiful scenery and they spend a lot of money on these ads, big-time production because there is a lot of money at stake, and there has been a huge transfer of wealth from our government and taxes that have been sent in to the pharmaceutical companies during this crisis, and it has been a crisis. yes, people have died in hospitals get paid more if they write down a certain thing if they get less, and hospitals code things. this is nothing new. hospitals sometimes get more money if you have a particular

complication because it costs them a little more to deal with the publication. the government tends to reimburse -- deal with your complication. the government tends to reimburse that. there has been no exception to that when it comes to the crisis we have been in. now i feel conflicted because i feel like now they do not want to let it go. they have this money train flowing, and we know omicron virus -- i apologize if i am not pronouncing that correctly -- we know the death toll nationwide is like 10, yet, they found in florida, they have sampled and tested the waste systems in the state of florida for every municipality, and they found the new virus was present in this way system of every community in florida, a monumental test, and

it tells us a lot, that this thing is going to our community -- going through a community like wildfire. host: there was major breaking is about the coronavirus mandate that broke late yesterday, and i want to bring you the story from the wall street journal -- from "the wall street journal," really u.s. appeals court reinstated the biden administration's covid-19 roles. i will bring you the story. a federal appeals court friday reinstated the biden administration rules that require many employers to ensure that their workers are vaccinated or tested weekly for covid-19. he divided panel of the sixth u.s. circuit court of appeals, issued by another court, that had blocked the rules. the majority in a 2-1 rulings and legal challenges to the administration's vaccine and testing requirements were likely to fail. the ruling is a near-term boost for the white house but was immediately appealed on an

emergency basis of the supreme court by employers who oppose the mandate. the requirements issued by the occupational, safety and health administration are scheduled to take effect in january and apply to businesses with 100 or more employees and cover roughly 84 million workers. employers who do not comply could face penalties of up to $13,600 a violation. requirements do not apply to employees who do not report to a workplace where other individuals are present, employees who only work from home, or employees who work exclusively outdoors. once again, that is the story from "the wall street journal" saying the appeals court has been stated the biden covid-19 rules for large employers that were scheduled to go into effect in january, two weeks. yesterday at the white house's

covid briefing, the cdc director discussed the latest data on the omicron variant in the united states. here is what she had to say. [video clip] >> at least 39 states and over 75 countries have reported confirmed cases of the omicron variant, and although delta continues to circulate widely in the united states, omicron is increasing rapidly, and we expected to become the dominant strain in the united states, as it has in other countries, in the coming weeks. you have seen cases of omicron among those who are vaccinated and boosted, and we believe the cases are milder or a symptomatic because of vaccine protection. what we do know is we have the tools to protect ourselves against covid-19. we have vaccine, boosters, and we know multilayer prevention strategies, masks and public indoor settings, practicing physical distancing, frequent

handwashing, improving ventilation, and testing to slow transmission are vitally important, especially as we prepare for more omicron, and even if you are vaccinated and boosted. host: let's see what some social media followers say about the coronavirus pandemic and response. here is a tweet that says, how could usa lead the world in covid cases and deaths from almost the beginning of the pandemic? now more than a hundred thousand deaths. another that says -- 800,000 deaths. another says, i have never had covid-19 and have had three pfizer shots with no side effects. please get the shot and go on with their lives. here is a tweet that says we plan to travel to colorado over christmas and beyond. now it is at risk. we still have a few days to decide, but it is not promising.

ground for pandemics. another post from facebook that is, once again, front-line workers are put at risk and overworked because we have a group of americans that are idiots. my heartfelt thanks to all of the front-line workers who are out there. once again, we want to know what you think about the current state of the coronavirus pandemic and the response. let's talk to walter, calling from palm springs, california. good morning. caller: hello. i remember i was a kid back in the 1950's, and when the vaccines came out, men, we were rushing to get in line to take those vaccines, but why? because we do not want to get polio. i remember seeing these cases where other kids my age were having to be with a respirator,

the iron lung, that would barely keep them alive, and we were terrified. i do not remember anybody saying anything except, hey, let's get the vaccine as quickly as we can, so we did. and it boggles my imagination that so many people today are resisting something that can save their own lives. here is what i think. if people are going to be so insistent on not getting the vaccine, ok, let's say that they are right, but if they do not have vaccine, then if they get sick, do not expect to go to a hospital, where the hospitals are overworked, and the poor workers there are putting their own lives on the line, so don't expect to be treated in the hospital, stay home and recover or die, whatever happens to you. host: let's go to sean, calling from laurel, maryland. good morning. caller: the morning.

in a sort of funny because i have been waiting to hear back from our governor and i representative and the school board because monday, my son was sent home with a bunch of other kids from schools who were asked to take a survey, and one question, do you have a covid shot? they were all dismissed. nobody from the school board knew what was going on. now i got an answer this morning watching the news. i was going to call monday and ask what the reason was because they said the basketball team got sick and they sent everyone home to do not have a shot. i guess -- if you got the shot, like the man said on the show, and it says you are fine and good, why do unvaccinated people bother you?

i don't understand that. they say your body, your choice, but they convince crazy women to say everything -- believe everything they say out there. if you are safe, you are safe and protect yourself. host: let's talk to jeffrey from oklahoma. caller: god bless you and god bless all the listeners to c-span. my biggest concern is no one is addressing the real issue, and that is the incredible obesity rate in our country. if you go back and talk about the 1960's, when there was a pandemic in 1968 and all the vaccines that were basically made available in early 1950's, one of the biggest things that was different was the entire health of the country. the last 60 plus years with high

fructose corn syrup, all the fast food, with inactivity. people are basically compromised. i am certainly not a person who was fearful of vaccination, but basically gene therapy, i am not a big advocate of, but i am a person who thinks that making sure you eat right, you know, eating healthy fats as much as possible, as much protein as possible, keeping your carbohydrates low, exercising vigorously, and getting as much vitamin d, direct sunlight as possible, so your immune system is strong. obviously, ninja, garlic, to merrick. -- obviously, ginger, garlic and to tumeric. fear is one of the biggest things that causes stress that

causes a lot of problems people are having. host: i don't think anybody would argue that being as healthy as possible will make your immune system stronger and will make you have a better life, but if i am understanding you correctly, you are trying to save the coronavirus pandemic is only affecting the people who are not healthy? caller: no, again, i think the coronavirus is affecting everyone in a reasonable manner. the way the flu is affecting everyone, no more than the colds and other seasonal viruses and those sort of things . as a person who s taken many of the vaccines, light, obviously, polio, yellow fever, measles, those vaccines dealt with the disease and being given the

concerns so your body will build up and immune system. host: i think we are beyond the comparisons to the flu and pneumonia because we did not have a hundred thousand people died from flu two years ago -- 800,000 people died from flu two years ago, so i think this is a little more. caller: we do have enormous amounts of people percentagewise equal to that are dying from the flu. host: equal to covid-19? i don't think your numbers are correct. caller:caller: again, when i say equal, i say over the course of the years, people have been taking the flu vaccination every year, yet, we still have people dying from the flu, just like we are having people taking the vaccine. host: that is correct, that is pretty well-known and should be pretty well known by now that vaccines do not mean the disease vanishes. caller: yes, but when we had the

gentleman 15 minutes ago talk about taking the polio vaccine, the reason he took the polio vaccine was not to get polio. the reason people are taking the gene therapy or the vaccine, it does not prevent you from getting it. what prevents you from getting it is to have a strong immune system. host: let's go to sally, calling from auburn, washington. good morning. caller: good morning, how are you doing today? host: just fine, go ahead, sally. caller: i am hearing a lot of shade thrown at people across the americas here. people are talking against, you know, unvaccinated people as if what that lady caller said crop or something. i have not been vaccinated. i believe i have had covid at least twice.

i lost taste and smells, still kind of dealing with that. my family have been tested for antibodies, and they are positive or have great antibodies against this. my point is, people are talking about not being able to have choices put in front of them, but if you go to the cdc site and see the facts that they are not accurate right now i don't separate the variants, so those 800,000 who have "died from covid," i will have to argue because those are not accurate numbers, in my opinion, because they have put in motorcycle accidents, heart attacks, that i can tell you from personal experience. they tried to put a person who had a heart attack and died

under covid, and we told him no. it did not show up on their death certificate as covid, i will tell you that. our new states here with masks and the kids, now they want to stick swabs of the kids read times a week to test for covid for sports. what are you testing for? is this a club you all want to be in? why are you testing and there are no symptoms? we don't test for colds or the flu. we go to the doctor. we just go home, drink lots of fluids, stay warm, do normal things with our antibodies. what is the problem that people are not seeing here? i don't understand. host: let's go to our caller from fresno, california. caller: good morning. i am a 60-year-old african-american male. i had open heart surgery, i have sickle cell anemia. i have taken the pfizer, both

shots. i am getting ready to take the booster. it is one thing i can say that a lot of the callers are not saying, i am healthy. i am healthy because i have a good position. -- a good physician. i follow the rules. 800,000 people are dying because they either caught a virus or do not take the shot. well, i am an american who sees the world stage, 4 billion chinese, there is heroin, fentanyl, all kinds of things happening in this country, and we are going to stand by and diminish our population because we will not take a shot? the coronavirus is killing us, not the shot. i have heard a lot of people speak on this program where they assume because of information they are getting from who knows what source that the shot has

some this or some that, but as an american citizen, i think we should be concerned about keeping ourselves healthy because outside the borders of this nation, countries want to destabilize and take over america. that is pretty much why i called because as i stated, i am 68 years old, had open heart surgery, i have sickle cell anemia. all of these pre-existing conditions, i took both pfizer's, and i am healthy. host: last week, wisconsin senator ron came out to the senate floor to discuss the risk from -- ron johnson came out to the senate floor to discuss the risk from covid and his opposition for the need for vexing mandates. here's what he had to say. [video clip] >> i don't see how anybody can take a look at the response imposed on our country by covid guides and say it was a success.

now it is the fact that there are still so much we do not know. i would appreciate a little modesty on the part of the covid guides. i would appreciate that we actually follow the advice i have heard when dealing with serious medical conditions, get a second opinion, get a third opinion. as i said, that is not allowed. i think it also calls for a little respect for our fellow citizens. these are some tough decisions. they are tough decisions, whether or not you want to get vaccinated. even more gutwrenching are tough

decisions based on these idiotic and pointless vaccine mandates is do i subject to the coercion, to the pressure? to the freer of reprisal -- to the fear of reprisal? and take the jab or lose my job? these are tough decisions. i am a big supporter of operation warp speed. i have had every vaccination until this one because i had covid. the covid guides are not acknowledging natural immunity. they're not acknowledging vaccine injuries. they are not acknowledging the fact that even if you are fully vaccinated, you can still get covid. you can still transmit covid. so what is the point of the mandates? of course, that is not what we

are getting from the covid guides. [end video clip] host: let's see what some social media followers are saying about the coronavirus pandemic and response. here is a tweet that says covid continues to rampage through certain populations. yesterday, i had to cancel the hearing of three inmates because there jail was on lockdown due to an outbreak, so they lost their chance to make rail before christmas. real-life consequences of not vaccinating. another person says why has the virus gotten worse since biden took office? he ran on getting rid of it, did he? another process i think pharmaceutical companies need to go back to the drawing board. create something that actually work so people do not need 95 boosters. another post from facebook that says, the pandemic response could not have been any worse. almost like politicians of both parties did their best to make it worse. instead of actually

listening to doctors and researchers, they meddled with the process and actually caused unnecessary deaths. one last facebook post, well, i get the flu shot every year. probably will need another shot against covid from time to time. in 1918 influenza virus, often called the spanish flu, infected roughly 500 million people in the u.s., 675 million people died -- 675,000 died. in the 1980's, the hiv and aids virus caused thousands of deaths. about 35,000 cases are reported each year. we can probably expect some new, nasty thing to come around now and then. once again, we want to know what you think about the current state of the coronavirus pandemic and the response. before we get back to your calls, i want to bring you a story from fox news that talks about the u.s. military moving to discipline people, the

troops, who have not gotten vaccinated. here's what the story says. u.s. military services have begun disciplinary -- today disciplinary actions and discharges were troops who refuse to get vaccinated against covid-19. as many as 20000 and vaccinated forces of the approximately 1.3 million active-duty troops are at risk of being removed from service. neither the navy nor marine corps have released refusal totals and remains unclear how many could end up being discharged. the navy has already fired one sailor from his command job for refusing to be tested while he pursued an exemption. the marine corps said thursday it had discharged 103 marines thus far, the army has reprimanded more than 2700 soldiers and will begin discharge proceedings in january, and the air force announced earlier this week that

27 airmen had been discharged. at least 80,000 service members are not getting vaccinated, but several thousand have been granted temporary medical -- or permanent medical exemptions, and more than 12,000 have sought religious exemptions. this comes as there is a controversy in texas over whether the texas national guard will have to take a coronavirus vaccine or not. texas governor greg abbott has said he will attempt to protect the soldiers and the members of the texas national guard. i want to bring to you this statement from texas governor greg abbott. if unvaccinated guardsmen suffer any adverse consequences within the state of texas, they will have only president biden and his administration to blame. the state of texas will not enforce this latest covid-19 vaccine mandate against its

guardsmen. the federal government keeps threatening to defund the texas national guard, and i will employ every legal tool available to me as governor and defensive the american heroes. that is a statement from texas governor greg abbott, who has refused the military vaccine mandate for his texas national guard. let's go back to our phone lines. we will start with cassie, calling from louisiana. good morning. caller: good morning. it is great to have a place where our voices can be heard and not censored. that is a very important thing to me. everything has been tested as far as what it means to be an american. i have to admit that i did vote for trump, and i do not breathe through my mouth.

because i voted for trump does not mean he did a great thing in getting this vaccine out here. people have a choice, and if he had been in office, it could have been terrible for him. people have a choice, and they should be allowed to have a choice because if you take the vaccine, why do you take it? you take it because you do not want to have to get the disease. from what i understand, the wards are filling up with people who have been vaccinated and boosted. how is it that americans are forced to take the vaccine, but the people coming across the border are not mandated because there are legal ramifications for the pfizer and the moderna pharmaceutical companies that they would have to face? not americans. they cannot have any legal

ramifications because of injury from the vaccine. host: so, what i understand you are trying to say, are you saying you think pharmaceutical companies would be at legal liability if they were sued by undocumented immigrants while they would not be at legal liability if they were documented by american citizens? caller: yes, sir, i do. when you think about it, we are at legal liability for separating these undocumented families. why wouldn't they be at legal liability for immigrants coming across the border? host: let's go to leicester, calling from sandy, oregon -- lester from sandy, oregon. caller: good morning, how are you? host: i am fine, go ahead. caller: my family back in january, they told us the virus was going around. i believe it was maybe the

covid-19, and, lately, all this stuff going on, i had a shot. it took me a year before i could have the shot because i have an immunodeficiency called igg4 and it creates lumps in my body, and infusions are about $20,000 each , and my son has one kidney. they told him that he could not have shot because it could cause him to die, and things like immune, things like that, most of these soldiers, maybe refused to have the shot, maybe they have some immune deficiency or something else going in their bodies.

you do not hear all of that. i think in america, we have a right to choose what we do, and but at the same time, i agree with shot if you can have it. in order to do that, you have to see a doctor. in my case, i have to have specialists. anyhow, that is what i feel my concern is, safety. oregon has a higher immune against it because like down in louisiana, the lady was just talking, we have -- they have warmer weather than we do, so oregon is known for colds and flu's. host: let's go to denise from

new jersey good morning. caller: good morning. i have a couple of things to say. first, the pharmaceutical company is profit driven, and we all know that. the bottom line is there concern. the covid-19 vaccine is a juggernaut. they are making billions of dollars. i really do not think that we are taking their j&j vaccine when they are being sued for their talcum powder. don't forget, they pushed how many people? nothing happened. the vaccine does not stop you from getting covid or from transmitting it, so, why are we taking it? also, there is no open debate. this is the first disease there

is only one choice. this government is only saying vaccine. in the beginning, we found out vitamin d, you have a less chance of getting covid if you had a high rate, and if you do not, of getting over it. host: let me stop you really quickly. the government mandate that president biden is talking about is either vaccine or submitting to a test weekly, so there is a choice. caller: that is not a choice though, it is either if you take the vaccine or nothing. there is no choice to combat the actual disease. there is vitamin d, like the other gentleman said, there is boosting your immune system, staying fit. here we are in covid where we are doordashing fast food. host: let's go to tony for maryland. good morning. are you there? caller: yes, can you hear me?

host: yes, go ahead. caller: i agree with that last caller. some of the other callers who have similar views to the last caller. i think this is all money driven. the pharmaceutical company stocks are the highest they have ever been. host: do you think we should be surprised at a capitalistic system that something is money driven? caller: i am telling you that i am not surprised that you are asking me a question because you seem to be asking questions to people who do not support taking this vaccine, but you do not do that to those who do support taking it. host: you have not been watching the show long enough then, tony. caller: i did not call you for that anyway. i am telling you for some reason -- this is what i am not taking it -- i don't think the viruses is that serious, for one.

for another, they rarely mention, and you get this on tv all the time with different medicines they tried to sell on us, they tell you the side effects before you and the commercial. you don't hear about side effects from this vaccine. you don't hear about adverse reactions over the vaccine deaths, all you hear about our covid related issues. nothing negative about the vaccine. you seem like you may even be promoting taking the vaccine. you asked so many questions to people who are against taking it. host: i believe there was a story earlier this week where the cdc suggested people take the pfizer or moderna vaccine because the j&j vaccine was had a problem with blood clots. did you see that story? caller: speaking of the cdc, it is strange the cdc knows how many people who have had the virus and have been vaccinated but do not know how many people that worked out the cdc, of all places.

they don't even know how many people are at their own agency are vaccinated. at a senate hearing, 75% of the cdc employees are working from home. so they do not know how many at their own agency, but they know how many in this country. host: several major sports organizations around the country are canceling or postponing events because of the rise in coronavirus cases around the united states, and i will bring you the story from cnn. let's start with the nfl. the nfl is postponing three week 15 games due to covid-19 issues around the league. they announced on friday. this saturday scheduled game between the cleveland browns and the las vegas raiders was rescheduled for monday at 5:00 p.m. sunday scheduled games between the washington football team in the philadelphia eagles, and the seattle seahawks and los angeles

rams, will both be postponed until tuesday. both tuesday games will kick off at 7:00 p.m. eastern. that is in the nfl. in the ncaa basketball calendars, they also are changing because of the coronavirus. that ncaa ends basketball calendar has been turned upside down with more than 1000 games canceled or postponed in recent days. most notably, games between number two duke and loyola, and between number four ucla and north carolina, scheduled for saturday, have been canceled due to covid-19 issues in the ucla and loyola programs, the schools announced friday. we are beginning to see now public changes from major sporting legs and colleges and universities because of the uptick in covid-19 cases. let's go back to our phone lines and talk to jerry, calling from

waynesboro, north carolina. good morning. caller: good morning, how are you doing? host: just fine, go ahead. caller: i am one of those nonbelievers, too. if you believe that 800,000 americans have died from this virus, and i have got some prime property in florida i want to give you. host: let's go to kathleen, calling from los angeles, california. good morning. caller: good morning. i am up early early in los angeles. wait, this is the thing i want to start with. you read from "the new york times," "the washington post," msnbc, cnn. they reported that the russians colluded with trump or russian collusion involved trump. he reported that for three years. first of all, a mask

immigration, illegal aliens have squelched the wealth of black americans for 200 years. the book is "back to the hiring line" by roy beck. yet, you ask people who do research or outside of social -- mainstream media, you denigrate or look down on people who do research outside of washington, d.c., or outside of "the washington post." first of all, this is not even a vaccine, it is gene therapy. the fda has not approved it, and they have not even manufactured the vaccine that is supposed to be approved by biotech. it has not even been manufactured yet, so it is gene therapy. second of all, look at studies outside of the united states, look at bangladesh. they do not have any covid

cases. why? because they do the nasal tests, and the other thing is, what about monoclonal -- host: i guess kathleen dropped. let's go to andrew, calling from oklahoma. good morning. caller: good morning morning. how are you? host: just fine, go ahead. caller: can you hear me? host: yes, we can. caller: they were talking about these shots. i have had all three of mine, and they did not bother me at all. these people talk about their rights of not being able to do what they wanted to. they got the rights to pay their own hospital bills and stuff, too, if they are not vaccinated. that is all i got to say, thank you. host: let's talk to lewis from cambridge, ohio. good morning. caller: good morning. i played cards all the time on a sunday from 10:00 in the morning

until 8:00, 9:00 at night. everybody who do not have the vaccine got covid severely bad. everybody who was vaccinated did not get it, so i just got to understand, why don't everybody get vaccinated? i have a mother-in-law who was big against abortion, but she says, my body, my choice. but she is against abortion. that is your body, your choice. there are lots of things i can go on about the vaccine. if more than 800,000 people died of covid that they reported, but i know a fact that my nephew died, and they put it down as overdose, when he was clean for over a year and had his test every week, and he died, and he had covid, but they put it down

as an overdose, and he did not have no drugs in his system, other than the ones he was supposed to take. i just do not understand these people. there are way more people who died the just over 800,000. host: on wednesday, several airline executives came to capitol hill to testify about the federal aid they received during the pandemic, and before the senate commerce and transportation committee. here, southwest airlines ceo is asked about whether passengers will be ever able to get back on airplanes without masks. here is what he said. [video clip] >> mr. kelly, on the air quality , and, mr. parker, would both of you briefly comment on that, and will be ever, do you think, be able to get on the airplane without masks? >> i would echo my colleague's comments on the quality of the

air. the statistics i recall was 99.97% of airborne pathogens are captured by the epic filtering system and turned over every 10 minutes. we use stamford school of medicine, so we will add to the prestigious list. yeah, i think the case is very strong that masks do not add much, if anything in the air cabin environment. it is very safe and high-quality compared to any other indoor setting. [end video clip] host: just as the hearing ended, the person you just stop speaking, the southwest ceo, gary kelly, tested positive for covid the next day after he made this appearance on capitol hill, as he talked about whether masks should or should not be allowed

on airlines. by the way, that hearing was massless inside -- maskless inside the building. let's start with laura, calling from massachusetts. good morning. caller: good morning. first, i want to say i think the mandates are absolutely is torry. i think it is based -- not based on fact. the fact is that those vaccinated are testing positive just as much as the unvaccinated , and they are getting sick just as much as the unvaccinated, so i believe this is political. this is meant to single out who they think are all trump loaders, which is not the case. i am a liberal, i have never been a trump voter, and i think the government mandate is for

this pharmaceutical industry, this is about billions and billions and billions of dollars. as a matter of fact, pfizer is talking about a fourth vaccine. where is it going end? when are they going to say, enough is enough? how about natural immunity and being able to fight the disease on your own if you are healthy? the whole point of this thing is to make us dependent on pharmaceuticals. this is what this is about. when does it end? is it going to be another virus and vaccine? if we do not have a choice to do what we want with our own bodies, then where does this end? this is meant to punish us, as well. finally, i want to say, it is meant to punish you because you ask you to take a test every week where you put a swap up your nose, it will cause irritation and could cause infections. you are supposed to pay for it

yourself, which is hardship. this is meant to punish people who are not being compliant with what biden and his administration and found she want -- and fauci once. host: let's go conrad. caller: some callers say you should or should not take it but this is the bottom line. half the people who have called in when we were coming up in life, 20, 19, 16, when you were popping pills, taking drugs, it was not bad when you are sorting them, and when you were popping pills, now, you do not want to believe a doctor. you believe a drug dealer, i bring you heroin, you snort that, don't ask what is in it, but you want to believe -- you do not want to believe a certified doctor. people do not believe 800,000 people died. if they want to die, let them

die. they are grown. you don't have to protect a grown-up person. host: let's go to jenny, calling from stone, ohio. good morning. caller: good morning. the reason i am calling is i believe it is real. my son is a police officer. he caught it from two other people, and he almost died, ok? so i do believe and it. -- i do believe in it. he could not breathe afterwards. he had side effects, and he really almost died from it. and then, finally, the chief called him and told him that there were two other people that had covid, and these people were not vaccinated or anything. but he did catch it from work, and he really almost passed away from it. host: we would like to thank all of our callers who called in for

that segment. coming up, a national alliance to end homelessness steve berg will be here to discuss homelessness in the united states and efforts to reduce it. later, beckett graham and susan vollenwider, the cohosts of the podcast "the history chicks" will be here to discuss their podcast and what is coming up in the new year. stick with us. we will be right back. ♪ >> this year the u.s. supreme court took up two cases upheld the face of roe v raid -- roe v. wade. sunday on q&a, joshua talks about the complicated life and times of the woman behind the case. the activism of the court's position and the impact that her actions had on her and her three

daughters. >> what is so interesting is that her life is a mirror and window into this whole big thing of abortion in america. and the pro-life wish to say, look at her and look at the cost of abortion. she never had an abortion. she actually is a fascinating sort of testimony to his the cost of adoption, she struggled enormously, emotionally with what it meant to have to relinquish her three children to adoption. >> joshua and his book sunday night 8:00 eastern onq &a, you can listen to all of that on our new podcast -- on the new c-span now app. >> when roosevelt arrived the united states for the first time, he was 12 years old and his current book, "rescuing socrates," he writes that when he landed at jfk he had "a held

-- a head full of lice and a body full of tropical parasites." the dominican republic native admits that he was an unlikely candidate, however montas eventually earned a phd in english from columbia university and went on to run the columbia core curriculum from 2008 to 2018. the subtitle of his life story " how the great books changed my life and why they matter for a new generation." >> on this episode of booknotes+ which is available on the c-span now apps or wherever you get your podcasts. >> sunday, january 2 on in-depth allen joins us to talk about the early intellectual history of the united states. the civil war, and the reconstruction era. his book titles include " redeeming the great

emancipator," "gettysburg," and "robert e. lee: a life." join with your phone calls, facebook comments, and your tweets, sunday, january 2 at noon eastern on in-depth. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are back with steve berg, vice president for programs and policy of the national alliance to end homelessness, and he is here to discuss homelessness here in the united states and how we can combat it. good morning. guest: thank you for having me. host: let me's -- let us start with basic information, how many people are homeless in the united states right now? guest: so, there is around half a million more between 500000 and 600,000 people on any given

night who are sleeping on the streets or in homeless shelters or other programs. probably another hundreds of thousands more, an unknown number who are moving from place to place, spending a couple of nights on a friend's couch and a couple nights here or there, and then really millions more who is housing is so unstable, that they could end up homeless at any moment. host: i am glad you brought that up because i was going to ask you to define homelessness for us in the united states. are we talking about people who are only sleeping on the street? about people who are moving from couch to couch? define what homelessness is in the united states. guest: different people have different ideas about this. everybody when they think of a homeless person includes people sleeping on the streets. there are a couple of hundred thousand people around the country who are what you would call unsheltered, who have no home to go to, no place inside

to sleep, sleep in their cars or in tents. there are hundreds of thousands more sleeping in homeless shelters, and then, i think most people, i believe would think of homelessness including somebody who is moving from place to place, sleeping a few days with friends here and there. people are using the word couch surfing to talk about that, and it is definitely part of the problem. host: has the coronavirus pandemic made homelessness worse in the united states over the last couple of years? guest: it had a couple of effects. first i would say, when coronavirus started we were very afraid that the effects on people who were homeless would be extremely severe, that i people would die, based -- that a lot of people would die, basically. there has been a lot of work done by people all over the country to keep homeless people

safe. so, they have had to allow fewer people into homeless shelters in order to do social distancing, places have gotten hotel rooms that were empty because no one was traveling. and, they use those to keep homeless people safe. it has meant more people on the streets in many places because shelters cannot take as many people or people do not want to go to the shelters because they are worried about getting coronavirus. so far, the worst kind of effects in terms of deaths and severe illnesses among homeless people have not carried out because of the great work that people have done to keep people safe. host: one of the main causes of homelessness -- what are the main causes of homelessness? guest: for me the main cause is that housing is not available to people. we treat housing as a commodity, something that you go out and pay for if you wanted. people who do not have money

cannot pay for it. then, when you go to the question of like if there is not enough housing for everybody, who is it that ends up homeless and then you get to a range of different factors that are associated with homelessness. the number of people with melt -- with mental illness who are homeless are greater than the percentage of people who are not homeless with mental illness. people who have drug abuse, who leave institutions, people who have been imprisoned and are now out and have been released, the rate of homelessness is very high. people who leave prison become homeless and very often end up going back to prison. it is associated with a lot of other of these kinds of problems. host: is homelessness greater in certain parts of the country than others? is it greater in urban areas

than suburban and rural areas? guest: homelessness is everywhere, there is not a community that does not have a problem. that being said, places where housing is expensive have a lot of homelessness, that is really the main association that we can see from the data on this. you know, you think of the big cities that are really expensive, los angeles has high rates of homelessness, new york has high rates. other expensive cities, that is where homelessness is the greatest because people cannot afford housing. host: is this an issue that affects the young, middle-aged, older americans? where along the timeline do most people face homelessness? guest: homelessness can happen to anybody, but the main effects are seen in sort of the younger people, and older people. i mean, homelessness among older

people is a growing problem in the united states, something a lot of people are concerned about. homelessness among families with little kids, the year in which a person's life in which they are most likely to be homeless is age zero to one. families with little kids experience homelessness a lot. but, it can happen to anybody. host: let me remind our viewers that we can take part in this conversation and we are voting to open up regional lines meaning that if you live in the eastern or central time zones, we want to hear from you at 202-748-8000. if you are in the mountain or pacific time zones, your number is going to be 202-748-8001. keep in mind that you can always text us at 202-748-8003. and, we are always reading on social media on twitter at c-spanwj and at facebook.com/c-span.

now, because of the coronavirus pandemic we know that the federal government put up a rent moratorium earlier this year, but it has also expired. has there been an increase in people who are homeless since the last of the federal grants moratorium? guest: we have not seen that yet, part of the reason that even though the federal moratorium expired, many of the big cities have their own either state law moratoriums or local moratoriums. so, the worst -- everyone believes a lot of people are going to get evicted when they run out, if some of the federal money that has been sent to people stops coming, for example, the bills that have passed congress already provide for families with kids, provide a monthly payment. the child tax credit, it is called.

the last payment for that is december 15, a couple of days ago. if congress passes a law of renewing that that and people get another payment on the 15th of january. if that does not get passed, then january 15 payment will not come and the rent will come due the first of february and a lot of people will not be able to pay that. the worst of the evictions have not hit us yet in the homelessness system, but we believe it is coming. caller: -- host: now the biden administration offered up policies that they say will help combat homelessness and i want to put that on the screen and have you react to it. they are talking about the house america which uses the american rescue plan funds which includes 70,000 emergency housing vouchers, 5 billion dollars in home band -- home grants and 300 $50 billion in treasury department funds to states and localities.

do we see this as being enough to combat homelessness in the united states? especially as we get into the winter months. guest: this would be a very positive movement forward. is it enough to end all homelessness in the united states, probably not. it would be an excellent step at this point in dealing with this problem. as i said, the main thing that causes homelessness is that there is not enough thousand -- housing for people to afford. by putting resources on the table so people can afford housing and targeting those to people with the worst sorts of problems or who have been homeless the long list with mental illness, combining that with health care and other kinds of services, that would have a huge positive impact. host: i asked this question but i think i already know what your answer is going to be. one of our social media followers wants to know "what

percentage of people want to be homeless?" and says he knows of one himself. guest: i have worked on this issue since the sort of rise of modern mass homelessness in the early 1980's and i have met thousands of people who are homeless and i said i will -- i have met two people in that time that wanted to be homeless. they were both people who felt like if they were on the streets helping other people that would be good for them. but the idea that people want to be homeless is a myth that was created a long time ago by politicians who did not want to be blamed for the problem, they wanted to blame someone else for the problem and the people that they chose to blame for people who were homeless who thought could not fight back. it is important for us and everyone to understand that nobody chooses to be homeless. and, anybody who thinks they do should go talk to some homeless people. you might eat one or two, you

will not meet men -- very many at all. host: i brought up earlier the winter months coming up soon, it is december and -- as we are doing the show. how do the winter months affects people who are homeless in the united states? guest: it is pretty obvious that if you are living outside in a place where the climate is very cold it is extremely dangerous. people die on the streets every year, particularly in the winter months in cold climates. a lot of communities go to great lengths to find shelters for people to come inside, and can be pretty persuasive. most people get it is dangerous it is -- that it is cold -- when it is cold. there are shelters that every that in -- that nbc every time they -- the temperatures go

beyond -- below a certain basement they open up basement. in other places where the climate is bad in the winter do the same thing. that is a very important response to homelessness. host: let us let some of our viewers join in the conversation. we will start with keith from denver, colorado. caller: yes. thank you for allowing my call. this issue really tears me apart. i have conflict and feelings about it. here in denver where i live, urban camping is a big problem. just to give you some context, much worse than in much larger cities that i have lived in like chicago and new york. but i live by the state capital, and our civic city park, a

beautiful park with all of our you know state buildings surrounding, county buildings and state buildings. that park which is kind of a gateway to downtown denver was closed about two months ago because it was completely taken over by the homeless, and i mean for like a year. they finally came to the conclusion, thank god, that the park was unsafe at any time of day or night, now imagine central park or millennial park or -- in chicago or any other major park, that is kind of nuts. i spent a lot of time talking to the homeless because they can camp in any public area due to a right to rest law. they set up camps and cannot be moved. they surround neighborhoods with these tents, but to close a park

is unsafe. and when i talked to these homeless people, i had a lot of sovereign citizens and a lot of occupy people. i also learned from them that our city, we provide vouchers for them to go to motels that the city has purchased. most decline because of the high use of drugs, which they use openly, they can use drugs openly. i also found that a vast majority of the urban campers were indeed out-of-state people who came into denver, particularly in colorado because there were liberal criminal drug laws. host: go ahead and respond, he had several questions about the urban camping going on around the united states which he says he -- are people who are homeless. guest: the first time i visited denver was 1975, and i remember

getting off the bus and walking to the capitol building and just being astounded by the number of people who were living outside in 1975. this is not a new problem. there are as i said, one of the impacts of covid has been that shelters have had to depopulate and people have been afraid to go to shelters and so they end up on the streets. there are more people on the streets. this is not good for anybody, but certainly the people who are homeless living in enchantments on the street is not good for them, it is unsafe in all kinds of different ways. the drug problems, yes, a lot of times we see in d.c. the places where homeless people are camped out is where people will come to buy drugs and use drugs because they feel like they can sort of blend in.

so, we need a solution, and the solution is obviously you get people into housing. people do not want to go to shelters because of drug use, but people one offered a modest apartment -- when offered a modest apartment with very few exceptions, one or two in my whole career, will always say yes to that, and that is why we push the idea of it is like we use the slogan housing first. get people into housing, and then deal with their other problems. and, that way the encampments and the people sleeping on the streets, that is the way to reduce that and ultimately get rid of it. it is cheaper then living people on the streets because of all these problems that are created by encampments and up with a lot of people getting arrested -- end up with people getting arrested, spending time in jail

and going to hospitals, which is expensive. which is why the solution helps everybody. host: speaking of a solution we have a question from one of our social media followers about what could be a possible solution. "other countries and even -- and even cities within our own country have fought -- thoughts this problem through by just giving the homeless homes and it seems to work. why cant we just do that on the federal level?" guest: that is a good question. we have worked for that, i have personally worked for that with the u.s. congress for many years and have been somewhat successful, but in the united states, we do not regard housing supports for lower income people as something that we are going to invest into the extent that everyone gets the help that they need. so, why cant they? it is because people has other per people have other priorities, congress has

invested in this. president biden proposed in his campaign that we provide housing to everyone who needs it. we believe at the national alliance to end homelessness, we are convinced by data and research that that would be cheaper for taxpayers than leaving hundreds of thousands of people homeless. we continue to work on that every day and we hope to continue making progress. host: as a counterpoint to that, i will bring you a statement from randall of the cato institute who says "the biggest flaw in the biden plan is that it treats housing as a nationwide issue and in fact it is really only an issue on the west coast, east coast states north of virginia, florida, and a couple of interior states, namely colorado and nevada. one problem with treating it as a national issue is that it would spend money in areas where housing prices are excessive.

a second problem it assumes that the causes are national such as the pandemic when in reality they are local. do you agree with his statement? guest: to some extent. i am glad that randall was up early on a saturday morning watching me. certainly there are parts of the country where the housing affordability problem is much worse. as i said before, there are places where housing is a most in -- expensive where you see the most homelessness. but to say it is not a national problem, the places where housing affordability is bad, it is not just a couple places, it is many places where a very large percentage of the u.s. population lives and it is getting worse. you really see that now, places that use to be able to say, we can find affordable housing for people who are homeless, if we

give money for a -- for the first and last months rent we can help them move in and find housing that is supportable to them are saying all of that -- all of the affordable housing has been replaced by new developments that are aimed more at people with higher incomes, so the affordability problems are spreading. and, even in the places with the lowest housing costs, those also tend to be places where incomes are the lowest. and you see people who have a disability, a long-term disability and are on disability benefits still have a problem affording housing. so any solution needs a national solution. it is going to be different in different places, it is going to be implemented differently in different places. but that is the facts of life with housing in the united states. host: let us talk to steve from

anaheim, california. good morning. caller: hello. your earlier question or your first tweet that came in that asked if homeless -- if people want to be homeless,, we had ronald reagan, who came up with that slogan. you really need to get william bishop on this program because he is an advocate of talking about the poverty in america and how much it will cost. now, we have five people a day dying out here of homelessness. and, they have not been able to solve the problem because when they build houses or we pay taxes to build homeless shelters , it is done like the one instance i got where we gave it to some church organization who bought a motel and put like $3

billion in the hole and never got billed. and then you have llc's who are buying up land to build homeless shelters and their idea of affordable housing is $500,000. and then you talk about the homeless shelters, if you are trying to get into a homeless shelter and you are working nights you cannot get in the shelter because you have to bennett -- be in there at 8:00 and out of there by 5:00. most of these people that are homeless do not -- do not not have jobs, they cannot come up with the money to buy houses. oregon started a program and they turned around they looked at the cost and all of the stuff they have done and they are giving people houses and it is cheaper. that is it for me. thank you. host: go ahead and respond. guest: that is right.

the places that have really looked carefully at what the cost of homelessness is realize they have money to deal with this problem, because they are spending lots of money to deal with the problem badly. they are dealing with it badly and it is very expensive and they can deal with it in a way that is much more satisfactory to everyone, people who are homeless and everyone in the community by providing housing, and many places have started to do that. but, it is -- particularly in places, portland is one example, los angeles is another example, they put money on the table, but they are so far behind in this idea of having housing that everyone in the community will be able to afford that it will take a long time to catch up. but the time to start is now, if they have not started already. host: monica from michigan. good morning.

caller: good morning. i actually run a social security disability clinic and homeless shelter in a large city that i live next to, which is lansing. recently we have had issues with our agency that has just dropped all of our supportive housing programs. my disability clinic was dropped. permanent supportive housing programs were dropped. our rapid rehousing program dropped because the agency decided they were not sustainable. that is part of the problem. once we get solutions we cannot hang onto them. host: go ahead and respond. guest: i am sorry to hear that. one thing i know, and i do not know what exactly the problem was when they say they are not sustainable. be in touch with us at the alliance because we would like to hear more about that and see if there is a way we can help.

in the homeless services field right now, as in a lot of fields it is very hard to hire people or to keep people in their jobs. this is very hard work. it is emotionally draining working with people who are homeless. and, we need to have the money to pay people better, we need to work with people to be able to get fulfillment from the job, but also to deal with the everyday stresses and strains that make it hard for a lot of people to stay in the jobs. a lot of homeless programs around the country are hiring right now, and anybody who is looking for a job that has a lot of fulfillment to it, be in touch with homeless agencies and -- in your local community because they need help. host: brian from minneapolis, minnesota. good morning. caller: hello. we have had problems here for a

few years with native americans have congregated in minneapolis. the thing is, we have the money in minnesota to take care of it, $7 billion in surplus, but they need to put the people up and they need to go out there and put the people up that need it in the motel rooms because it gets subzero here and people start dying. i think one of the problems is if they would have had -- they had bernie sanders and kamala harris had a plan at the beginning of the pandemic where all people below a certain income would get $2000 a month during the pandemic. if the country would have gotten that, except for the population centers like new york or san francisco, that would've been enough to pay for appointments or hotel rooms month by month,

and that would've taken care of it because we also have an organization called macv and they put veterans in hotel rooms , and if they need support services they provide them for that, and then they get them into affordable housing. and, if we took that as a national model, we would clean up the streets a lot. guest: yes. the models exist and they are all over. it has been since the early 1980's that homelessness has been a big problem in the u.s., and we have learned a lot since then. they were all kinds of good programs that work really well. the idea of sort of just giving people money works really well. that has been tested out in a few places, and it shows that if you give homeless people money, they use it to go in get themselves a place to live. that is the number one thing

they do with it. one of the problems that we run into is so many people in the policymaking world are so afraid that somebody is going to get some money that they do not really deserved or will not spend it on the right thing, and it ends up spending a lot of money on monitoring and enforcing, and things like that. you need to realize that homeless people are people and they just need basic needs taken care of. if you trust them to know what they need, and give them the resources they need to get it, they will go in get it. so, lots of good things to do, and we know the answers, it is just a mad -- a matter of doing at the scale that we need. host: the previous caller brought up veterans the united states, tell us about the effect on veterans and how many

veterans out there are facing homelessness right now. guest: since the beginning of the sort of modern homelessness epidemic, in the 1980's, veterans have been a big part. they are overrepresented among the homeless population. nobody is exactly sure why. it might be a certain amount of it is, especially with vietnam era veterans with the trauma that people experienced when they were in the war, same thing with people coming back from the middle east. but it is also the case that people who served in the military and never served in a war zone also have higher rates of homelessness. so, it is hard to say exactly why that is and that is definitely the case that a lot of veterans are homeless. the department -- the u.s. department of veterans affairs, the v.a. has homeless programs

that are actually funded better than the general homeless programs at the department of housing and urban development. so the v.a. homeless programs have done a very good job at looking at the data, looking at the research, looking at what we know about programs to work and really design the programs in a good way. so, they have managed to reduce the number of veterans who are homeless pretty steadily since the w bush administration, which was when i talked about the housing first approach. it was during the bush administration that the federal government got behind that based on the research and data that they were finding. it has been carried on since then. slowly but surely, the number of homeless veterans is going down and there is still a lot of work to do. we are glad to see how many people get behind that as a way

and as an important thing that we need to do. host: ramona from georgia. good morning. caller: good morning. i am a senior citizen, and i was homeless. i lived in an f-150 ford truck for two weeks and i know a lot of families who lived in their cars now, and i was wondering out of the military budget that they just approved, $700 billion, how much of that do you think they could abstract from to cure the homeless problem from the military budget? guest: there is nothing in the military budget that is going to do anything for homelessness. you know, it is interesting. we talk about veterans and homelessness before, and we have brought up during various

administrations like tentative -- can the v.a. and military work together to sort of try and deal with trying to figure out why it is that when people leave the military they are more likely to be homeless, maybe have the military deal with that before people leave and nobody in the defense department has been able to figure that out yet. the amounts of money that are necessary to address the homelessness problem, we talk about it as a lot of money and it is a lot of money based on the budget of the department of housing of housing and urban development. but, compared to the military budget it is like a drop in the bucket would be enough to end homelessness and provide housing for everyone who needs it. so that nobody became homeless anymore. host: in a report to congress,

the national alliance to end homelessness said that african-americans make up 13% of the general population more than 40% of the homeless population. similarly american indians, alaska natives, hawaiian natives or pacific islanders or those who have two or more races makeup eight abortionist -- a disproportionate share of the homeless population. whites and asians are significantly underrepresented. what are causing these differences and the racial breakdown of homelessness? guest: i think you know, one of the things that we first figured out when we started trying to get better data about who is homeless in the united states really a couple of decades ago now is just what we suspected, but did not have the data to show and now we have the data to show it.

homelessness hits a lot harder at black people than white people. and, you know one can set that speculate about the reasons, but it is pretty obvious, homelessness is something that happens to people who have a lot of other bad things happen to them. you know, all of the different disparities in income, disparities in spending time in prison, disparities in what people are paying for rent, all of those sort of add up so that -- and evolve into bad things that happened to black people more than white people. homelessness is the one where the disparity is among the worst. we are trying to deal with that. i think that as that data has shown more clearly that this is the case, i think we have been

able to get more local communities to think harder about whether they are contributing to this problem, or whether they are making it better. and i think a lot of people in the homeless services field are really committed to saying that we are going to do our work in a way that resolves this problem rather than makes it worse. so, places all over the country are looking at the data that they have about who is homeless, and if, as you said, black people or native american people are overrepresented and they need to make sure to reach out to those people and to organizations in the community that have a good record of working with people of color, and making sure that they are part of the solution. host: let us go back to the phone lines and talk to leonard from houston, texas. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: so much of the

discussion today has been about one program after another, government assistance. why don't we take our resources and take the homeless person off of the street and deliver them back to their families? and continue to do that time and time again until the family's realize -- families realize that the responsibility is theirs, not just for the rest of the citizenry? ultimately there might have to be a financial penalty to the families to force them to take care of them, you know, those that we cannot find their next of kin, then they need to be arrested for vagrancy, and kept in jail and work programs cleaning the streets and the like. these people are the families'

problems. the family created these people and whatever issues they have, they have known about, and the rest of the citizenry should not have to pay for this. it does not need a program, what it needs is people to be responsible, and what resources we have to use should be used to track down the next of kin and deliver these people to them. host: go ahead and respond. guest: i think the role of the families in this is an interesting discussion, so a couple of things. one, a lot of that is being done already. houston actually has a good one, they have programs where people reach out to homeless people and talk to them about what resources they have in their life that could help get them off of the streets and helping them make use of those resources. people are often finding that they do have family members who are willing to help, but the

people have gotten out of touch for one reason or another. and, maybe a little intervention by a social worker or a church worker or something can get them back together and the families are happy to help. there are many people who would be homeless, except that the families are taking care of them. i think many more people in that situation are then actually does homeless. there are plenty of cases where the family is just -- has just disappeared or disintegrated, people are in jail, people are dead, and there is not anybody there to help. and so, i think that more help from families. i am not sure that there would be much political support for a mandate that families have to help people. when we started to push in that direction, we get a lot of eye rolls, and it is -- it is as i

said, everyone is heard by homelessness, not just the homeless people. everyone in the community. it costs communities a lot of money. they can take care of the problem and part of the problem that the family is not taking care of, people can take care of that and save money, and it is something to feel good about. people should do it, and people all over the country are doing it. houston is a good example of a place that has had an effective response to homelessness over the last few years. host: david from los angeles, california. good morning. caller: good morning. yes. you know, los angeles is the mecca for homeless, over 66,000 homeless people. you mentioned earlier in one of the statements that you made was that you only met one or two

that did not want housing. i take issue with that. here is the reason why. and many of the previous callers eluded to this fact already and i am going to try to highlight it for you so you understand. as soon as you offer many of these people housing, and you attach social responsibility to it, they decline. they have already proven this in venice beach. they were offering people housing. about 30 to 40% of them wanted the housing, but were reluctant. the others who were either mentally ill, or were drug addicts do not want responsibility, so they chose not to take the housing. so, i think we need to be focused more on a few other things, mental illness, drug rehabilitation, and trying to reintegrate these people into society and get them to accept some of the responsibilities and

as the previous caller mentioned, and you seems to ignore that. i think that is the core of the problem is many of these people do not want to accept responsibility in society. host: go ahead and respond. guest: this idea that homeless people need to in one way or another straighten up and then they will get help is -- was a major part of the response to homelessness from the early 1980's up through as i said the w bush administration. and it did not work. a lot of people want to believe that is right, wants to believe that the problem is the individual responsibility, but the fact is that people -- a lot of people on the street have mental illness and one of the symptoms of that disability is

that people are unable to make really good decisions. people are worried about, and you say in terms of people need to be responsible, but people are concerned about that if they take on the obligation to pay rent every month, are they going to be able to maintain it? that is a good question. people are not sure of that. what we have found from actual experience of people over and over if you give people housing, things get better. they do better, the community is better off. sometimes people's initial response is not great. it depends on who is delivering the message. they will be fine if a police officer says i will come and arrest you but you can go to this housing and if you want. that is not a way to build a trusting response. sometimes the work has to be done by skilled people who

understand how to communicate with people with mental illness, communicate with people who have been through a lot of bad things and have had the sort of establishment do bad things to them. when people with that training and skill approach people with the offer of housing, and with answers to their questions and concerns, then people take it, people with mental illness take it. people with addictions take it. once they are in that housing, then many times people start dealing with the other problems in their life that is just impossible to deal with if they are living on the street. it is like, it may not fit with everyone's idea of what the sort of american way is, but it is like the approach of getting homeless people into housing first, and then dealing with their other issues. that just works and the other thing does not work. if you do not want living -- people living on the streets, adopt housing first.

host: we would like to thank steve berg, the vice president of programs and policy for the national alliance to end homelessness for talking us through homelessness in the united states. thank you so much. guest: thank you and thank you to everybody who was listening. host: coming up, we will move to the open forum meaning that you can call in and talk about the most important political story on your mind today. you see the numbers on screen. later, beckett graham and susan vollenwider the cohost of the podcast "the history chicks," will be here to discuss what is going on in their podcast and what is going on in the new year. we will be right back. ♪ >> at least six presidents recorded conversations while in office, here many of them on --

hear many of them on the new podcast. >> season one focuses on lyndon johnson, you will hear about the 1964 civil rights act, the presidential campaign, the gulf of tomkin incident. not everyone knew they were being recorded. >> certainly johnson's secretaries knew because they were tasked with transcribing many of those conversations, in fact they were the ones who made sure that the conversations were taped as johnson would signal to them through an open door between his office and theirs. >> you will also hear blunt talk. >> i want to report on the number of people who were assigned to kennedy or me the day he died. if i cannot ever go to the bathroom i will not go. i promise you i will not go anywhere and stages behind the black gates.

>> presidential recordings, find them on the c-span now wherever you get -- or wherever you get your podcast. >> c-spanshop.org is our online store. browse through our latest products, apparel, books, and accessories. there is something for every c-span fan and every purchase help support our nonprofit operations. shop now or anytime at c-spanshoporg. download c-span's new mobile app and stay up-to-date with live video coverage of the day's political events from live streams of the house and senate floor and key congressional hearings, and supreme court oral arguments and even our morning problem just morning program " washington journal."

c-span now has you covered. download the app for free. >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back, and we are going to our open forum segment where we want to hear from you on what your most important political topic of the day is. we will open up regular lines meaning republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002 and you can always text 202-748-8003 . before we start taking calls we want to point out that just after midnight last night vermont's democratic senator patrick lahey cast his 17,000 vote, becoming the second most senator in history after former senator robert byrd of west virginia. senator lahey, who joined the

senate in 1970 five is retiring after the end of his term this year and we want to bring to you that historic vote on the senate floor from yesterday. [video clip] >> madam president. >> the leader is recognized. >> just after the clock stuck -- struck 12:00 we have a number -- a wonderful announcement. senator lahey has cast his 17,000 vote. [laughter] -- [applause] one more thing, only one more senator strong -- nope. robert c. byrd has cast more votes than senator lahey and the history of the united states. [applause]

and so, we will have a two hour recess to celebrate. no we are not. [laughter] >> i thank him for his comments. i will speak further about this next week. i came here as a jr. most member of the senate and i did not expect to be in this position, but i have had the privilege now of serving slightly over 20% of all of the senators who have served in the history of this country. and, that -- and somewhere very good senators, and all of them were senators. all were senators, somewhere very good. i will speak further about this later in the week and i will not hold everybody up. i appreciate the comment and it has been a privilege serving with all of those hundreds of

senators that i have served with. thank you. [end video clip] host: we want to know what your most important political topic is today. let us start with ruth from washington on the democrat line. good morning. caller: hello, sorry i called on the wrong line. i really want to appreciate you having the homelessness issue on. semi, that is probably the most -- to me, that is the most important issue. we are not dealing with the root cause. i am hearing anything else, we throw all kinds of money at the problem, but we are not solving the root of the problem which is early childhood trauma. virtually every one of those homeless people had early childhood trauma. it changes your brain. addiction, we know from research

that addiction and all kinds of mental illness comes from abuse and neglect, and then i would kind of like to know how come we are not talking about that and dealing with it. host: david calling from los angeles, california on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. i am going to stake on this homeless issue. because, some of the things that i have been listening to and as we have been discussing this, it has to do with an attitude that has been cultivated over a period of time that has actually created a -- this has been at the crux of what america is about, anti-black. right? anything that has to do with trying to -- are you still with me? host: yes. go ahead. caller: anything to do with making black people whole.

we come up with a political, economic, military, and other -- every other systematic wise as to support whatever efforts there is for progress, and so what we have here today, for example, like in kansas with its tornado touchdown. these people are made homeless by no fault of their own, right? but the impetus of the government is already such where those people who have been made homeless, the governor, a republican conservative fellow along with mitch mcconnell, who always votes no against any kinds of social welfare program to re-build kansas city. the money will be there. it is not a matter of whether or not the money is there, but the

will of the people. and i would suggest to everyone, every black person listening to this per dr. program to hear what the hell -- listening to this program to hear the attitude toward something that has such a disastrous effect on our community, what you do not have. this is not our government helping us to kind of alleviate these problems. host: sheila from massachusetts on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning, and happy holidays to all of you. there is a topic that nobody seems to wants to broach. and it might not be the top topic. however, i am very concerned at this idea that transgenders are being allowed to compete in women's sports. this needs to be addressed. otherwise women will have no

chance at surviving in the sporting world and other worlds. it is pathetic that people are afraid to address this problem. men do not belong in women's sports, and i do not care how much gene therapy they have not had or whatnot, but this is wrong, and i want to know where all of the feminists and women who support women's issues are hiding. host: let us go to linda from connecticut on the democrat line. linda, good morning. caller: good morning, happy holidays to everyone. i want to first, as a woman and as a black woman, let you know that those things dealing from pregnancy on, there are so many women of color, all different

backgrounds that have come to the u.s. looking and seeking a better life and, those that are born in the u.s. who have tried to work with different programs, both from a racial perspective, an injustice perspective that lead into all of these domestic violence issues and things that you know, from growing up as a child as one of the women said, there are traumatic things that have happened. males and females, and you cannot blame mother, father, grandmother, grandfather or anybody else to have not been able to participate in a lot of the programs that have been available and brought into use for urban areas, but all of a sudden that money that has been

set aside for education, health care, proper nutrition, those out to the suburban towns and high-class towns where people really do not need those types of things. but, they control the politics and economics. they control the banking system. thank you. host: debbie from sanford, maine on the independent line. good morning. caller: i am calling about -- hello. i am calling about the homelessness issue. when you look at it and you think about all of these americans on the streets, especially our veterans that die at 22 a day because of suicide, it is like they fought for our freedom, but when you think about 1.2 million illegal immigrants that have come across this border in this past year, where are they laying their heads at night?

they are going to host cities, they are getting dispersed in the dead of night to host cities. and host families, and sanctuary cities and we are spending more on illegal immigrants. i have no problem with immigrants coming in legally, but it is so sad to think that all of these americans are on the street through no fault of their own, some of them may be, but it is not for us to judge, but take care of our own american people, especially veterans. host: james from pennsylvania on the republican line. good morning. caller: hello. my name is james, i am glad to be able to call. my problem is i need my drivers license, and i need help getting it. i have done everything i could to get it.

but the system seems to be against me. and i just do not know what to problem. nobody was to deal with it. host: i would suggest by -- i would suggest art by calling your mayor or local county member. if you don't get help from them, start with your state senators. if you don't get help from them, move to your congressman and senators. there should be who helped get your drivers license. let's go to brian calling on the democrat line. caller: are we life? -- are we live? host: are you there? go ahead, brian. caller: number one question,

what happened to steve berg. host: what do you mean what happened to steve berg? caller: isn't td director of homelessness? host: his section has ended. caller: can i ask another question? i was in washington, d.c. in the summer of 1994. i was with one of my brothers. we were just walking around and egos, brian, look at that -- and he goes, brian, look at that. there were homeless underneath the bridge.

in downtown washington, d.c. host: let's move to ty calling from south carolina on the independent line. caller: good morning. the most important issue and i don't know how anybody can disagree is the failed coup. if we lose our democracy, we lose everything. i think we americans are helpless. there are great people in the democratic party. -- spoke of the voter rights and he put it so clearly. the leaders in the democratic party cannot do that so i am independent. i think we are just helpless

right now. nancy pelosi, chuck schumer, and those guys, stepped down and let some of those young, good minds get up there that can talk and think on their feet. joe biden is really old. i voted for him because trump was a disaster. i had no choice. he was not my choice. i pray every day those guys get it together. i hope our voting system is not corrupted towards the next election. if they take away the house, we are in trouble. i think that was the most important issue. that should went over everything as far as joe biden and build back better. we will not be able to build back better if we lose our democracy. host: speaking of the january 6

investigation, there has been a major sentencing that happened in washington, d.c. yesterday for one of the people who participated in the capitol riot. i will bring you that story from the washington post. " a man who watched and cheered the capitol riot and then moved to the front of the mob and hurled a fire extinguisher, a plank, and a pole at officers was sentenced to more than five years in federal prison, the longest sentence given so far to someone charged in the january 6 attack. robert else palmer -- robert palmer pleaded guilty in october to assaulting law enforcement with a dangerous weapon and agreed to its addicting range of 46 to 57 months. after his plea and his entry into the d.c. jail, palmer arranged to make an online fundraising plea in which he

said he did go on the defense and throw a fire extinguisher at the police after being shot with rubber bullets and tear gas. that was a lie, he admitted friday. he had thrown a fire extinguisher twice, a large plank, and a pole at police before he was struck with a rubber bullet. he also had failure to accept responsibility for his actions. wendy u.s. district judge agreed, she increased his sentencing range from 63 to 78 months. that is from the -- from 63 to 78 months." that is from the washington post , the longest sentence in the january 6 riot so far. we want to know what your most important political topic is. let's go to jack calling from

texas on the independent line. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. you were talking about the homeless earlier. why would somebody open the border and let millions of homeless into a country that has a homeless problem? it seems like they have no idea what they are doing or they are doing something that will benefit them. that is democrats. thank you for taking my call. host: let's go to percy calling from los angeles, california on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. one of the issues that has come up in regards to the congressional districts that has to be removed from california is

the largest voting hispanic district in the u.s. is the one being disqualified and the issue being why is it if minorities start to gain political power they are disenfranchised? it is like giving them the catlike with the engine that does not work, the roof that leaks. why are minorities always the subjects of the problems that occur once they start to acquire political power? they are disenfranchised. thank you for taking my call. host: let's go to paul let calling from florida on the democrat line. good morning. caller: hi, good morning. it is almost my 20th anniversary went -- anniversary when i was on with the bad election with brian lamb. i have so many issues with our country. i'm still trying to understand

why the january 6 folks thought it was okay to disrupt our capital like they did -- our capitol building like they did. i am trying to get those trump ateers to explain why they think it was okay. -- host: let's go to peter who is calling from pennsylvania on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. i have a bachelors degree in political science and at the risk of over symbolizing things -- over simplifying things, somebody wanted to know why we are called the republic. if you check the pledge of allegiance, you will get a clue.

as a pluralistic society with interest groups with needs and wants, has anybody ever heard of the program abc, a better chance? host: let's go to jodi calling on the democrat line. good morning. caller: i have four basic questions. the first is the government needs to get out of household affairs. second, we have too much systemic racism in every individual city. it is empowering white supremacy and all of these negative people who have a blanket of collectivism over our minority people. then, we have another issue with transgender's.

it is okay to say to give these people rights. at the same time, you have not acknowledged the rights of black people being murdered in the streets. i honestly believe corona is, organized removal of native americans signed by trump. you need to do something about that. host: let's go to brian calling from folsom, pennsylvania on the republican line. caller: good morning to you. i saw something in the news yesterday regarding new york city not allowing new construction. natural gas is pretty much going to be eliminated in the city of new york for heating and cooking and things like that.

i do believe, and hope america is listening, this is very dangerous. they left climate change activists are very dangerous because natural gas is a great element to heat our homes, to cook with. if we go to all electricity, people in new york remember the blackouts in the 60's. it could be catastrophic. the only battle to help that would be to have large generators. those generators probably will have to run on natural gas. we have to fight from the middle left. the far left is gone but we cannot continue to have this climate activism taking over our

country. host: let's go to mary calling from michigan on the independent line. mary, are you there? let's go to bronson calling from pueblo, colorado on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning, america. i am a disabled veteran, served during the vietnam war. born in mexico. i crossed the border to defend this country. my take issue with people using coming across the border as a scapegoat. the covid virus they blame it on hoppers. hoppers are people who hop on

airplanes and travel all over the world. they are the ones that are spreading the virus. we forget about the black plague . it was the disease in europe that killed billions of people. we forget about the europeans bringing the measles to the native americans. 90% of the american indians died from diseases brought by the europeans. don't be blooming for scapegoats. don't make -- don't be blaming. scapegoats. . host: we would like to thank all of our callers who called in for our open forum segment. coming up next, beckett graham

and susan vollenweider will be here to discuss what is coming up on their podcast and what they are looking for in the new year. stick with us, we will be right back. ♪ >> how did america get up to its neck in debt? >> we believe one of the greatest things of being american is trying to strive for people -- >> students across the country are giving us behind-the-scenes looks as they work on their entry using the hashtag #s tudentcam. you can join the conversation entering the c-span studentcam conversation. create a five to six minute documentary using c-span video clips and answer the question, how does the federal government impact your life? >> be passionate about what you

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times of jane roe, the person behind the case, the activism, and the impact her actions had on her and her three daughters. >> what is interesting is her life is such a member and window into this whole big thing of abortion in america. the pro-life wish to say look at her, look at the cost of abortion. she never had any abortion. she is a fascinating testimony to the cost of adoption. she struggled immensely with giving up her children to abortion -- children to adoption. >> you can listen to our podcasts on our new c-span now cap -- she's been now mobile app. >> >> washington journal continues.

host: we are back with our spotlight on podcast segment. we would like to welcome beckett graham and susan vollenweider of "the history chicks" podcast. thank you for being with us today. we want to ask them what their podcast is about. we will start with beckett. tell us when and why you started the podcast. guest: about 11 years ago, i read a book about the gilded age and meritocracy. it is the same book that inspired julian fellows to create "downton abbey." i had a job where i can listen to podcasts and i wanted to learn more. i was very surprised at how

little women's history i found out. i felt this cold wash of dread pass over me and i thought that is a sign i have to create it myself. that is the origin story. that was about 11 years ago. i thought i wanted a partner and this woman i knew from an online forum, i had never spoken to her or met her in person, but i thought her style was intelligent and opposite of me. that was a good combination. so i called her. host: susan, pick up the story from there. guest: my husband answers the phone and he says get said i want her to do a podcast with me. beckett had to explain what a podcast is and he said yet, i

think that is something she would do. i jumped on it and i found out with a podcast actually was. i knew what it was but i had never listened to one before. i listened to my first podcast. shortly after we talk the first time. host: how do the two of you decide what you are going to focus on on each podcast? guest: we always have subjects going. the books behind me and the ones below you can see, those are subjects we have maybe in the future. when we feel like we have enough information in our heads, we basically say let's do so-and-so. i was listen to beckett's gut. there could be something, a

movie or something in the news that ties into what is going on in the world and there is no science behind it. host: walk us through putting together a podcast. how long does it take you? how often does the podcast come out? how do you decide on whether you are having a guest or not? guest: we very rarely have guests. we are longform biography podcast and this is how it goes. susan referred to the stacks of books. my stacks of books are over there. susan referred to the fact that we have several on the go at the same time. it is like summer stock, you are prepping one show while performing another show. once we have decided on a subject, susan and i do not speak about that subject again

because we are in two different library systems, we have different life experiences, we have different taste in media. our goal is to surprise each other with things learned on our own journey. the spontaneous "what" you here on our show is genuine because that means we surprise each other. host: who do you see as your audience? who do you want to listen to "the history chicks?" i know everyone says they want everyone to listen, but who is your audience? guest: i honestly don't want everyone because it is not to show for everyone. the are other women's history podcasts out there for everyone. try it. if you don't like it, thank you for trying.

our not ants is 91% female as our audience is 91% -- our audience is 91% female, college age to retirement age. some create their own podcast for a class assignment, we love to hear that. the audience is mostly women but they are also listening with people which is great for something that is such a personal experience. host: one of the things susan mentioned is that you have people listening in classrooms. how do you ensure the information you're providing is correct? history, for some people, can be a very subjective topic. guest: it is. and we are very clear within our

shows that if we come across conflicting information, if there is a debate among historians who have been studying this for hundreds of years, we will just say there is a conflict about this topic. that is all we can do and that is the responsible thing to do. at the end of our show we spent up to 15 minutes and arford modes -- in our footnotes saying here's what we got the information, here are the rabbit holes where you can follow your own desires. we fact-check during editing, we send it out for fact checking. we have been known to call professors in foreign countries to have them verify information. i called a museum to determine how to pronounce charlotte

bronte. we do everything we can to make sure what we have got out there is is accurate or we present you with the option. host: let me take a moment to remind our audience that they can take part in this conversation. we will open up regional lines. if you are in the eastern or central time zones, your telephone number will be 202-748-8000. if you are in the mountain or pacific time zones, your toll -- your phone number will be 202-748-8001. you can always text 202-748-8003 . we are always reading on social media, on twitter at @cspanwj and on facebook.com/c-span. susan, i will bring this question to you. your episode number one was about reentrant.

white -- was about marie antoinette. why start a podcast about marie antoinette? guest: the sick question for beckett because she pitched the podcast to me and she used marie antoinette as an example for what her concept was so we just said let's do marie antoinette. after we figured out what we were doing, we recovered marie antoinette -- so there are three episodes of marie antoinette. host: that means return to you, beckett. why marie antoinette? guest: i think in my vague idea i wanted to start with someone who had name recognition. it was not any value judgment on her life or anything.

i wanted to start with someone with name recognition so we could have someone to hook our listeners onto. sofia coppola's movie had just come out. it is really no deeper than that. host: i have to ask this question, what did you learn in between your first podcast on marie antoinette and what did you do differently or add by the time you came back and did the two parter later? guest: "this american life" had some very good advice. basically, the first 100 times you do a thing it will not match the vision of what you do -- not match the vision of what is in your head. the first power cast -- the first podcast, the first

sourdough bread, it will not be good the first time and you just have to move on. the hardest is going from zero to one and not one to two. the first challenge was being technological and the second was being comfortable with each other. also, we learned with being comfortable with seeing everyone as a full 360 degree person. very few people are all good or all bad. that is the main thing we learned, more than stats or figures. people are people just in different circumstances. that is the main thing we have learned. do you agree, susan? guest: completely. nobody is completely good or completely bad. it would be so easy -- we did

fan girl about marie antoinette, but it is better to resent her life fully. just to present her life fully -- to present her life fully. i had not cracked a book to study anything in 20 years so i had to teach myself how to study. the first few episodes, i had different methods. one time i had my kindle open with pages marked. i had to teach myself to present information in a clear way and keep it in my head. host: let's let some of our viewers take part in the conversation. we will start with andy calling from kentucky. good morning. andy, are you there? i think we lost andy. let's go to brian who is calling from illinois. good morning.

caller: i heard that laugh. guest: i thought you were my husband calling. he threatened to call, that was the only reason i was laughing. caller: alright. what is your podcast about? we -- guest: we are a longform history podcast. we take a person from birth to death. we have covered subjects from the ancient world all the way up to the likes of julia child and jackie kennedy. we spanned the centuries. guest: our most recent -- my

angelo was the -- my angelo -- maya angelou was the one who passed away the most recently. host: that was the question i was going to ask, how far along on the timeline are you going? or have you done women who have lived before marie antoinette and are you doing women who are living and working right now? guest: we don't do any while they are alive. when a woman of faith passes away, we usually get requests to cover her life. here is the thing, just turn on a television set or open a magazine and you will learn a lot about that person's life. there's not a lot we can add within five years or so before we can cover her or we feel

comfortable enough. on our website, we have a chronological list put together and maintained by one of our listeners. the oldest one was someone in 1507 bc. the last one is wilma -- no it is not. host: another person you have covered is laura ingalls wilder. what do people not to about laura ingalls wilder -- what do people not know about laura ingalls wilder? what do people know and what is something new you brought out that perhaps people did not know? guest: i have to credit laura

ingalls wilder with awakening my love of history. i cannot imagine i am alone. i had a matching set of yellow books like we all did in the late 1970's. there was a phrase in her first book that struck me as a strong -- as a young student. laura is sitting in her cabin thinker federal and the fire is crackling, her senses are all awakened. she had this thought about times long ago and she had this thought that now is now, surely now can never be one day a long time ago. i had that curtain moment -- i had that curtain moment like in " ratatouille" where he takes a

bite of the food and has an ah-ha moment. i thought, today is today and sometime this will be a long time ago. that is when i thought history is nothing more than the stories of people who came before us. what started out knowing is what laura ingalls wilder wanted children to know about her. a lot of the hardships of their life was let out of those books. she had a brother who died, her family with her extreme hardship. she had to work with her family in a hotel. there was grinding poverty and homelessness in certain periods of her life that were left out of the books. host: do you want to add anything to that, susan?

guest: beckett, laura ingalls wilder -- she was a huge fan. that was one of her favorite authors as a child and that story so ties into the history podcast. i am so glad she's just that it -- i am so glad she suggested it. the first five we did, i did not really care, i just wanted to cover somebody. but i thought it interesting that when she first broached the books, they were heavily edited by her daughter, rose. i did not know that her -- i did not know that. her daughter was a writer herself and a rebel. i thought that was kind of cool.

i am a writer in my other life and an editor is very necessary. the involvement that rose had in the books was surprising to me. host: let's talk to valerie calling from new york. caller: good morning. oh my gosh, history nerds, just like me. i grew up on laura ingalls wilder, too, and i wanted to ask if you covered any serious historical fiction writers. if you cover henna rent who was a historian herself who said that the bubonic plague affected the enlightenment. i imagine a lot of what you cover is women.

i just saw "the last dual" this week and it is such an important piece. guest: we love suggestions. i can tell you that hannah gets requested quite a bit. we have not covered them. we have a master this we go down and we try to jump around from time period to time period. subject to subject, writer, artist, etc. to answer your question, we have not covered those people yet.

we have covered 156 subjects in the last 11 years. but no actual historians other than memoirs, like laura ingalls wilder or my angelo -- or maya angelou. host: not all of your podcasts are focused on one person. for example, your last podcast is about tattooed ladies. tell us why he decided to cover tattoos on women around the world. what made you choose that topic? >> -- guest: two things. one, i got my first tattoo in my whole life. i got the flowers from the

cornflower blue. along with that, our friend greg young from the bowery boys podcast, who susan mentioned as her first podcast she listened to, he did a history of the tattoo gun and its prominence in new york city. he encouraged me to cover model wegner -- to cover maude wagner. man, does this go through prehistory. tattoos and body modification have been part of almost every culture throughout history. what an opening that was. we went all the way from. history -- we went all the way

from prehistory through the crusades and we touched on the history of tattoos in polynesia and on to the story of olive oakmen who was taken from her family and welcomed into a native american tribe and given their traditional tattoos but found it hard to integrate back into western society when the government demanded she be sent back. and then onto the tattooed ladies of the circus. it was a great topic to be able to touch on many cultures and many aspects of history. it was delightful and i am glad we did it. guest: that was one of the few episodes did. usually we do the episodes

together, going back and forth. that is the reason we start researching something. i got called away last minute on a family emergency and she had to fly solo, but she had some background already so she was able to expand on that in a short period of time. i was very impressed. it was a great episode. host: -- guest: we often say if you ever hear us cover alice roosevelt longworth, then you know something happened because we have had that in our back pocket. host: -- guest: i have flowers so blessing my children and charms so blessing major events. so i have had mine. host: let's go back to our phone

lines and talk to mike calling from laguna woods, california. caller: good morning, ladies. i like to propose an investigation of abigail adams, john adams' wife and john quincy adams' mother. it turns out she did a good job of raising john quincy adams. at that time, we fully surely -- we foolishly limited the opportunities of all women. john quincy adams was probably the most intelligent man to be american president. he counseled us to have the government focused on taking care of the american people rather than conducting military missions abroad.

that is a message that is quite timely certainly now since the american military -- guest: we covered her in episode four. she was one of the ones who wanted to cover right out of the gate. the cool thing about what we get to do is because history is presented from the man's point of view. john adams is the man and abigail adams is in the background. we get to talk about abigail adams, put her in the spotlight and the men that helped her along. that is episode four from 2011. guest: something else about that , i almost think that -- john

quincy adams was a very smart fellow but his mother i believe was one of the most intelligent people we have ever covered on the show. she was born out of time. i often think when we are covering people, if only these people had been born today we may have had a president abigail adams. that was not a path open to her. guest: and being able to talk a little bit about the men of support the women, the fact that she married john adams out of everybody in her world is great. he was supportive of her and not dismissive. there are letters between the two of them out of there and it

is a delight to be able to read them. they are very flirty. the subjects they will talk about almost sound very modern. they push the envelope of propriety to the edge and a lot of them. the fact that she married well helped her in her life. it is a shame she did not have the opportunity to enter politics as anything besides the wife of the first lady. host: that is the perfect segue into my next question which is all of the first ladies you all have focused on during the podcast. you have done abigail adams, madison, lady bird johnson, jaclyn kennedy, and probably more. what makes the first ladies worthy of one of your podcasts?

guest: there are very few women that know that this is true, but it seems to be that the first lady is a role a lot of women have to define for their comes -- have to define for themselves. sometimes you have to let the best. you have some that are behind the scenes. you have some that practically run the country from behind the scenes. everybody has to make that very public job her own in a short period of time. that takes guts and intelligence and all of the factors we like to cover on this show. host: anything to add to that? guest: that is pretty much it. i only heard part of it.

[laughter] we also edit our podcasts so conversations like this don't make it. host: that is the joy of being on a live television show. guest: let's -- host: let's go to rene in kansas city. guest: we are actually both in kansas city. caller: you know who i am. guest: did you pray -- did you play trivia with me once? guest: -- caller: yes. have you done certain scenes about where you are? your local area?

guest: if we have any opportunity to talk about people from where we are from, that is great. in kansas city, we got a correspondence from a man named donald talking about a woman neither of us had heard about from kansas city so we investigated her. that was the anni chambers -- annie chambers episode. she was a madam who ran a resort here in the wild frontier days. guest: we have also covered kerry nation who is from the town in which i grew up. it is nice to go local but that

does not play a factor in how we choose. we have covered subjects suggested to us by an eight-year-old girl, by a book that fell out of the library stack, by a movie we were intrigued about, anything can trigger us changing our schedule at the last minute. locality is not the key but it is suspicious that we have covered luisa brooks who is from wichita. the problem with that is -- and i encountered this -- almost anytime we go anywhere -- amelia earhart lived down the street from where i am. you drive by and it is just a place, it is just a house. luckily it is there. most of times i go look at a

place and it has been paved over, it is a parking lot. you often get disappointed by the march of progress. guest: it does color our conversation when we do pick somebody that has some type of relationship to where we are from or where we are now or where we lived. i went to college in new orleans and when we covered marie love though, i was so excited. i knew the area and i knew the history so it might have colored the conversation a little bit. host: let's talk to bridget calling from south carolina. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. real life is so much more interesting than fiction, isn't it? guest: it is. caller: yes.

have you done anything on the notorious american divorce wallis simpson who wrestled the british monarchy? guest: we did cover wallis simpson and she was one of our most divisive subjects. we heard from people from the u.s. who were like, i did not know. i am so much more sympathetic towards her where she was caught in a situation where she had no choice but to get married to the king. people from the other side of the atlantic were like how do you support a woman who did this to our country. it was really interesting to hear that. guest: going back to what i said at the top of the show is that few people are all bad or all

good. it was a little bit of the creeping in of the good that a people in that case. guest: definitely. host: you have also covered topics that while related to women were not actually real women at all. you did a podcast on wonder woman and you have a podcast on the statue of liberty. why did you do one on the statue of liberty? guest: they statue of liberty is technically a lady person. she is lady shaped. [laughter] the statue of liberty stands as a symbol for a bigger thing. digging into her history, it touched a lot of things we had already covered. it covered friendship between france and the u.s. and why that was. revolutionary war might have

gone differently without their involvement. it is such a vital part of so many people's first experience with the u.s. that it almost would have been criminal to have left her out. host: talk about the relationship between the statue of liberty and the statue of freedom that is right there over my shoulder on the dome of the u.s. capitol. guest: they were both built around the same time and they are both women. they both change to be symbol of what they were supposed to be standing for. it's kind of morphed overtime. they are both very large statues. i honestly don't know what any other similarities are. i know that statute, but i don't know. do you, beckett? guest: the thing similar in both

statues is the irony of their placement, the irony that both of them are women in a time when women could not vote and had no agency. the statue of liberty was protested by a group of suffragists who were like, here is a woman exemplifying the very concept of liberty we have been fighting for and yet we don't have it. the statue of freedom was created in 1863 when people of color were not free. there is that ironic construction and direction -- and erection. they have both changed into a

hoped-for freedom, shining the light for a better time. just like people, not every country is all bad or all good. not all movements are all bad or all good. those statues both stand for promise, the promise of better things. host: let's go to our phone lines and talk to jeffrey coming from pennsylvania. caller: i am a registered nurse. i just got off work. have you ever talked about florence nightingale who is considered the cornerstone of modern nursing? there are a lot of things that can be said about her and the implications of her work in terms of nursing today. has shiva been featured on your show? guest: she absolutely has been featured. we did an episode on her and we spotlighted those things you just said, her innovation and

the cutting edge care she was able to give her patients and train other nurses in. we also covered a jamaican woman who was also a doctor but more of an herbalist. she was also treated patients during the crimean war like florence nightingale did, except she was able to add a twist of commerce to her care and set up a general store at the front. she would cater picnics. it was a big thing for people to come down and watch battles so she would cater picnics and people would take their food and eat and watch battles, like real ones. not like reenactments. guest: florence nightingale and

she carved places for themselves in their area of study in an area of world no one wanted them in. they disregarded the obstacles. that is what we find admirable. host: let's talk to roy calling from florida. roy, good morning. caller: i would be interested in a discussion about glorious item -- about gloria steinem. host: have you covered gloria steinem? guest: she is still alive so we

cannot cover her. however, we did cover elizabeth stanton. that might be a place to start to learn a little bit more about the women's movement origin story. guest: i would even go back farther to get a more broad understanding of feminism in general and head over to mary wilson graph -- she is like the great grandmother of the women's movement. host: let's try virginia calling from maryland. virginia, good morning. caller: good morning. i just wanted to let you know that i work at adams national bank in d.c. and abigail was

embedded on our t-shirts. guest: i love it. caller: yes. it was also called the women's bank. guest: wow. host: women in banking seems that a great topic for sometime in the future. an episode is coming up, can you give us a hint on who are you are going to cover for your 200th episode? guest: no. [laughter] we drop clues before the episode airs on our social media, visual clues about to the subject is as if to say there is an episode coming, try to guess who it is. people love to guess and lots of

times we think we have these obscure clues and sometimes the first person guesses it, like catherine the great. we shot ourselves in the foot as far as numbering goes. our 200th technical episode already happened, but our 200th person episode is 10 away. guest: we assure you it will not be our fallback. so everything is going well. host: we would like to think beckett graham and susan vollenweider from "the history chicks" for coming and cussing their podcast. thank you so much. guest: thank you for having us. thank you to everyone who called in. host: we would like to thank all of you and our social media followers for sticking with us.

this is my last show of this calendar year. i hope everybody has a great holiday season and we see you all again in 2021. happy birthday to my sister candace celebrating her birthday today. continue to wash your hands and stay safe. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2019] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ♪ announcer: c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these television companies and more including charter communications. >> broadband is a force for empowerment. that's why charter has invested billions building infrastructure, upgrading technology, empowering opportunity in communities big and small. charter is connecting us.

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and know in the greatest country of the history of the earth your view matters. >> content is king. remember to be as neutral and impartial as possible in your portrayal of both sides of an issue. announcer: c-span awards $100,000 in chosen cash prizes and you have a shot at winning the grand prize of $5,000. entries must be received before january 20, 2022. for rules, tutorials or how to get started visit our website at studentcam.org. ♪ announcer: this year the u.s. supreme court took up two cases that could decide the fate of roe v. wade, the landmark ruling on abortion rights. sunday on q&a author of "the family roe" talks about jane

roe, the woman behind the case, the impact that her actions had on her and her daughters. >> her life is such a mirror and window into this big thing of abortion in america and the pro-life wish to say, ah ha, look at the cost of abortion. she never had an abortion. what she actually is is a fascinating testimony to the cost of adoption. she struggled enormously emotionally with what it meant to relinquish her three children to adoption. announcer: joshua and his book sunday night at 8:00 eastern on q&a. you can also listen to q&a and all podcasts on the new c-span now app. ♪ ♪ host: good morning and welcome to