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and medix global president sigal atzmon on lessons learned from other countries during the covid pandemic and the current omicron outbreak. washington journal is next. ♪ host: this is the washington journal for december 20. for the first hour of the program, your reaction to west virginia senator joe manchin formally ending support for president biden's build back better act, saying in part is over what the spending would do to the current high rate of inflation. the white house responded by calling out senator manchin. many congressional democrats condemned the senator's act. here is how you can reach out to us with your thoughts on senator manchin's position on build back better. republicans,. -- republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002.

you can text us at (202) 748-8003. post on facebook at facebook.com/cspan. if you want to post on twitter, you can do that @cspanwj. here is how the major daily newspapers are painting the event that took place yesterday after senator manchin appeared on fox news. manchin says no, deserting biden over bill. that is the headline. manchin rejects policy bill. according to the post, he said he opposed the spending package. and then the washington times this morning on their front page mentions the massive social welfare bill cannot square spending with voters back home. that was part of the argument he

made on fox news yesterday when he announced his decision concerning build back better. here's a portion from fox news. [video clip] >> this is a mammoth piece of legislation and i had reservations from the beginning. i have been working diligently every day. i have been working on this, meeting with president biden, with majority leader schumer and his staff cannot with nancy pelosi, all of my colleagues from all spectrums of the political spectrum from the right to the left. i have done everything possible. even my concerns i have, and i still have these concerns, the inflation i was concerned about, it is not transitory. it is harming every west virginia, making it difficult for them to continue to go to their jobs because of gasoline and cost of groceries, the cost of utility bills. you start looking and then you

have the debt that we are carrying at $29 trillion. you have also the geopolitical unrest we have. you have the covid variant. that is wreaking havoc. people are concerned. with my family, everyone is concerned. when you have these things coming at you the way they are, if i cannot go home and explain to the people of west virginia, i cannot vote for it. i cannot vote to continue with this piece of legislation. i just can't. i have tried everything possible. i cannot get there. >> you are done. this is a no. >> this is a no. host: again, that from fox news in response to the senator's statements. the white house press secretary released a lengthy statement about the senator's decision. here is a portion of it. on tuesday of this week, senator

manchin came to the white house and submitted to the president directly a written outline for a build back better bill that covered many of the same priorities. we believed it could lead to a compromise acceptable to all. senator manchin promised to consider -- continue conversations and work with us. senator manchin reversed his decision this morning. we will continue to press him to see if you will reverse his decision again to honor his prior commitments and be true to his word. in the meantime, senator manchin will have to explain to families paying thousands a month for insulin why they need to keep paying that instead of $35 for that vital medicine. it goes on to say maybe senator manchin can explain to the millions of children who have been lifted out of poverty due to the child tax credit why he wants to end a program that has helped achieve this milestone. that is from the white house.

to your thoughts this morning can sit -- concerning the senator's decision. good morning. caller: if the plan was just about child tax credit and lower prescription costs, fine, but that is not what it is about. there is more in it that they do not mention, like voter federal lysing -- federal lysing -- federalizing voting. if joe manchin wants to actually respect his constituents and do what he is put there to do, a lot of senators have forgotten about their constituents. he is doing the right thing, and i believe the pressure and attacks at his home and harassment did not help his

decision. that is something we have to get rid of this mob mentality, whether it is on the right or the left. it has the opposite effect. it is basic psychology. i cannot believe there is no common sense when it comes to that. host: you are saying if a narrow filled back better package like the one you described or the element you describe something you could support? caller: yes. there is this other stuff in there i would not support. host: let's hear from sam from michigan, democrats line. caller: thank you. i wanted to say manchin cannot understand this bill is aimed at the future, not the present. if we do not do it now, we will have to do it again in the future.

it has to be done. you might as well do it now and get it over with. host: do you still thing elements of this bill have some type of light of day in congress? caller: some do, but the whole thing has to be passed now. that is the important thing. host: one of the elements of the package was that of climate concerns. climate goals at risk after mr. manchin says no to bill. mr. manchin, who profits -- are vital to reducing the burning of coal, oil, and gas. mr. manchin rejected part of the bill that would have been the most effective, a clean electricity program that would have awarded power plants that

switch from burning fossil fuels to solar wind and other clean sources and punish those that did not. he objected to a provision that would have imposed a fee on emissions of methane and opposed a provision that would have given tax credits to consumers who purchase electric vehicles produced by union labor. independent line. this is rob. what do you think about the senator's decision? caller: i think it is great. i think joe manchin is doing a great job. democrats are out of touch. this bill -- we have the highest inflation in 40 years. this is going to make it worse. the president going on tv and saying it is not going to cost a single cent, this man is demented. host: do you think mr. manchin's motives were determined by inflation? caller: i believe there are other factors. this is 3.5 trillion dollars at least. the congressional budget office

said it is more like $5 trillion. host:: from facebook this morning says at least one democrat in d.c. has some sense. the rest are bonkers. steve saying, i count myself as a moderate democrat and see nothing wrong with childcare. wooden -- when will the madness stop in the senate? horatio on facebook saying -- he has complete libra trade the people of west virginia as well as all of america. this is bill calling in on our democrats line. caller: he is a man of honor. he follows his conscience. i have three kids still working in the coal mines. i am a retired coalminer. we keep seeing the democrat party going further to the left

and this war on coal is ridiculous. we are going to have to have coal for at least the next 50 years. we are going to stand behind joe. if it keeps up like this, people like me and my children are going to be dropping out of this democrat party. it is going so far to the left. it is on the verge of socialism and communism. they might not be communist, but i would not trust them not to let the communists come in here and take over. host: do you think the senator's decision is encouraged by coal overall or his attachment to the coal industry? caller: i think the senator looks at the fact that this country is $30 trillion in the red and that my grandkids now

are born with debt on their souls that will never be paid off. it is gluttony. it is worshiping gluttony. these people think they can spend taxpayer money for everything they want to and there is going to be nothing that happens. my grandkids are the only thing i really care about these days, and i do not want to see them living in an america that is any less of in america than it was when i grew up and have the opportunities i had. i worked my tail off, and i can tell you i'm watching these government people just give money away to people that will not work or are sitting at home. they are getting too much money for free and do not have to work. host: that is bill, west virginia. west virginians are encouraged to call and talk about the decision from your senator on

the old back better. from louisiana, independent line. caller: good morning. i am calling on the republican line. host: this is the independent line. are you an independent or republican? caller: i am a republican. host: i'm going to let you go. i'm going to ask you to call back on the republican line if you can because we try to keep the lines partisan in the sense that it best represents you. try again and call in on the republican line. noel in new york cannot republican line. caller: good morning. first, let me say how much i miss brian lamb. he was a great moderator. about this joe manchin vote, i am sure my democrat friends will be excited someone in the republican party of the senate will give joe biden his wish on

this. we have had a lot of rino's on the republican side. i feel sorry for the country for going through what it is going through. host: for senator manchin's decision, what do you think of that? caller: i think he is a man of principle. it is a good way to look at it. we are in a mess now financially. it is going to be not borne by me or my generation but my children and my grandchildren are going to be saddled with this. at some point, the rubber has to me to the road. everybody has to pay their bills. it is a mess. joe manchin is doing the right thing by saying no. i'm sure one of these republican senators will jump ship.

they cannot wait to make the news. host: who do you think is likely to do that in the republican party in the senate? caller: i think they are all sitting there with their heads together. follow the money is what i say. there is so much money in this bill. it is going to go all directions. i think there are people on the republican side that will jump ship to give joe biden his wish. host: some of the reaction from members of congress when it comes to the future of build back better highlighted in the washington journal this morning. they quote a representative from washington state, the chairman of the moderate new democrat coalition. she said the party should choose a smaller set of programs to fund in the bill, listing the child tax credit, affordable care act subsidies, and climate

program is worthy goals. her statement was tweeted by white house officials, including the white house chief of staff. the story also quotes a representative from virginia, a centrist who faces competitive reelection rates next year -- race next year. she said, democrats need to find a compromise. after months of negotiation, one democratic u.s. senator has walked away from productive negotiation. that is not acceptable and we cannot act like this moment is the end. children, families, and the future of our planet are counting on us. we will hear from virginia. this is jeff in williamsburg, virginia, independent line. caller: thank you for taking my call. in the democratic primary process, you need to nominate joe biden because he is not donald trump and will not send mean tweets. number two, he is not bernie sanders and will not have a

communist inspired, marxist economic program here he got the nomination. the build back better bill is literally marxist. that bill would increase debt and overburden our children. what money needs to be spent now is on national security. host: senator manchin's actions specifically, what do you think of that? caller: i think he recognizes that independents do not want marxist inspired, socialist takeover and massive debt. i think he has been articulate. the word to speak for themselves. he expressed it well. he is responsible. he is brave. host: speaking of senator sanders, he talked specifically about the decision by senator manchin and reacted to it yesterday. here is part of the response.

>> i think he is going to have a lot weeks leading to do to the people of west virginia to tell them why he does not have the guts to take on the drug companies to lower the cost of prescription drugs, why he is not prepared to expand home health care. west virginia is one of the poorest states in this country. you have people who would like to stay at home. he is going to have to tell the people west virginia why he does not want to expand medicare. i have been to west virginia a number of times. it is a great state, beautiful people, but it is a state that is struggling. he will have to tell the people west virginia why he is rejecting what scientists of the world are telling us, that we have to act and transform our energy system to protect future generations from the devastation of climate change. what is going on now in washington is big money is pouring hundreds of millions of dollars to make sure we continue

to pay the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs so the rich do not pay their fair share of taxes. we could have had at least 50 democrats on board who have the guts to take on lobbyists and the powerful and special interests. we have not one republican in the united states senate or house prepared to stand up to drug companies or insurance companies. i would hope we would have had 50 democrats. if that is the case, i hope we will bring a strong bill to the floor of the senate as soon as we can and let him expand the people west virginia what he does not have the guts to stand up to special interests. host: that is senator sanders from yesterday. in the washington post this morning, how biden's alliance

with mention unraveled. they say mr. manchin made up his mind only in the past day or two, according to a person familiar with the situation, including he had exhausted all negotiating options with the white house. the senator did not seem pleased with a written statement from president biden thursday evening that effectively push the negotiations into next year, which had referenced mr. manchin. joseph and virginia, republican line, you are next. caller: good morning. senator manchin, you did the right thing. this is a horrible bill. there are so many hidden items in it. i hear a lot of democrats talking about one senator is taking over everything. ramberg -- remember the republican senator all you democrats loved, john mccain? remember what he threw the wrench in it for donald trump? do you remember when the rhode island senator left the senate

from the republican party and went to the democrat party when george bush was president? these things happen. there is probably money in this bill for black lives matter. i want joe manchin -- i watched joe manchin yesterday three different times on reruns on the same segment. bernie sanders, you said you wished you had at least 50 democrat senators. you only have 50 democrat senators. host: independent line from west virginia. we will hear from donald. caller: i have been hearing for weeks them run down joe manchin. west virginia is behind joe manchin. his poll numbers were good before. they are even better this morning. bernie sanders does not represent west virginia. joe manchin does. host: why did you support his

position on this build back better act? let's hear from anthony, democrats line. caller: i think future president mention wants to become president. it is ridiculous that the part of the country he represents is the poorest part of the country and nobody listens to the point you brought up earlier, that he makes money off of fossil fuels. to the people in this country who believe we need to have coal , the coal industry, if you look it up, the peak of the coal industry was in 1914 at the beginning of world war i. we only have 60,000 to 70 thousand coal workers. why is it important? it is ridiculous that this country will not spend any money on people -- on poor people but

do not have any problem spending $2 trillion on rich people who sit back and do not pay taxes. >> do you think that democrats have to rework the current version of build back better? ? to get support -- better to get support? caller: joe manchin is not going to vote for this because he is looking at the poll numbers for joe biden, thinking he can run for president next time. i have never voted for a republican and i would never vote for joe manchin even if you paid me. >> -- host: if you go to the new york times website, there is a story, how joe manchin survived as a democrat in west virginia. i will read you portions of it. it says white voters without a four-year degree in the state made up 69% of voters in 2020 according to census data. mr. trump won west virginia with

69% of the vote in 2020, more than in every state in wyoming. it is hard to say how his dimension is a democratic senator at all. his estate voted for mr. trump by 39 points. no other member in their state or district who voted for the other party's presidential candidate by more than 16 points. it also adds his unique ability to survive in west virginia -- dating to the old industrial era over workers rights and safety. he was one of the most reliably democratic states for the second half of the 20th century. the so-called republican southern strategy yielded no inroads there. there is more to that. this is posted by nate cohen.

the story dates back to july of this year. allen in ohio, independent line. caller: i called in -- you would think i would be interested in the bill. i am 63. i have a hernia that is not operated on and i have to lift my mom up every day to care for her at home to keep her out of the nursing home. she is going to be 97 and she was affected by covid. i do not think the bill should be passed even if it hands us some of the benefits offered to seniors. when i was listening when you were showing the clip from senator sanders -- i know things in the bill are good, but we have to work it out. west virginia needs to work that out by themselves. the federal government should not get involved. they cannot handle these programs. they are too big. i had a negative experience with medicaid in ohio. there were some things they were telling us that were not true.

host: so senator manchin's decision, what did you think of that? caller: senator sanders? host: senator manchin's decision on holding off the bill, what did you think of that? caller: i was in support of that. i think it should not be passed by the federal government. the biden administration, they have good intentions, but i am not in support of it. if byron donalds of florida was president, we would be on the path of success in america. everybody please look into byron donalds of florida. host: we will go to clay in louisiana. >> thank you for taking my call. i support senator manchin 100%. he is a rare individual, a man of principle in washington today.

in a joint committee meeting with the senate, the former head of the chief of staff said the biggest threat to our country, survival of our country, is not china. it is not russia. it is our debt. senator manchin accused him of taking money. the man lives on a houseboat. senator from vermont who was always doubting the so-called wealthy. if the people of west virginia do not like senator manchin, they are free to run someone against him. host: you support every choice senator manchin makes in the senate? caller: i have followed c-span. it is a wonderful civic program.

i guess i followed senator manchin reasonably well. overall, i think he is a man of principle. the bill that was passed, the 106 trillion dollars supporting roads and bridges and someone, no reasonable person could be against that. the other things and the social program, some of them are well-meaning but add to the national debt. you have to sort it out and not lumped together under a massive spending program. host: let's hear from middleton in west virginia, democrats line. caller: this is a personal story. i have met joe manchin. i was campaigning for another democrat and he was there.

he kissed my wife on the cheek, so i thought things were great. i had a big package -- a problem that affects all people across the united states, having to deal with pre-existing conditions and the medicare supplement insurance program. i gave him a wad of facts of what they did not do to help the seniors. a usual politician will look you in the face and smile and say yes, but you turn his back and they will stab you. his group of staff worked on this for a year and a half. host: so's how that relates to yesterday's decision -- so how that relates to yesterday's decision? caller: it goes to show he can

be trusted. he is not a democrat. i am 74 years old. i have been a lifelong democrat my but he is not a democrat. he is a republican. republicans call in, they love him for that. host: why do you think he keeps getting elected in your state? caller: not by me. he keeps getting elected by republicans, not democrats. these people who call in who were supposed to be democrats, they are not democrats. that is the trouble with this country. host: let's hear from bill, ohio, republican line. caller: i would like to start off by saying whenever you see one in my party cannot republican with a cell phone, thank them for being a progressive -- party, republican with a cell phone, thank them

for being a progressive. 100 years ago, there was talk about this. we are going to be able to drive around in our car to that a horse in front of it. maybe we will be able to fly. they wanted to tar and feather them people way back then. listen to all you all talk, it sounds like you are a bunch of people under stockholm syndrome, like you have been captured and tortured by somebody. this new president wants to spend money on the american people and you call that socialism and communism? there is an old story -- host: are you a republican? caller: yes, i am. i am an old school republican. i ain't in no colt. -- cult. host: senator manchin's decision, what did you think of it? caller: i am a republican. host: what did you think of senator manchin's decision? caller: that is what i was going

to finish with. there was a family going to the store and they want to get ice cream. there are a couple kids in the backseat. there is a two-year-old sitting in the driveway crying. who is in charge? host: we will go to bob in irvine, california, independent line. caller: good morning. i believe the american people and history will look back with very fond and with respect for the courageous and strong senator joe manchin of west virginia. we do not need this biden and democratic party nonsense. that is aimed at weakening the u.s. economy in hopes of bringing down america with this marxist, communist strike at our heart. this is nonsense and a senator joe manchin is not the only one. there are 50 republican senators also and other senators who are

in the democratic party who know this is nonsense, who see the bigger picture of crt and this other stuff that is going on. host: is senator mention homme -- senator manchin only courageous and strong because he is against what you are against? we are talking about the bill he proposed. that is why i asked the question. caller: i am talking about this specific point in what he did yesterday. i thought he did a great job and the american people should be proud of joe manchin. to see the bigger picture, we need unity, not destruction from the democratic party. host: that is bob in california. about a half hour of calls we have taken on senator manchin's decision on build back better. we will continue taking calls until the top of the hour. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. independents, (202) 748-8002.

you can text us at (202) 748-8003. post on twitter if you want. this is steven on twitter, saying that when it comes to yesterday, the bill has junk in it but good stuff too. senator manchin could do some work and get a better, but he don't care about us. he is working for himself mostly. twitter is available to us. text if you want. call us on the line such as jeffrey, west virginia, democrats line. caller: i am from west virginia. like the previous caller from west virginia, joe manchin is a republican. people should come down to west virginia and see how people are living and can't even eat and then he comes and floods tv with look what i done for west virginia, look at the money i brought back. he is a big joke. host: why should senator manchin

support this -- he hung up. rich is in pennsylvania in greensburg, republican line. caller: i support joe manchin's decision to tank this bill. i find it ironic that people who are opposed to what west virginia stands for come to their support now. west virginia is all about faith and whiskey drinking and gun toting and all these things that the left typically hate. it is funny when bernie sanders makes comments about support for his brothers and west virginia. -- in west virginia. one of the talking points of build back better is that child tax credit and how that expired

and that was going to extend that. the point was everybody says it lifted 50% of the children out of poverty. what about the other 50%? who are the 50% of the kids being lifted -- left in poverty? but we will spend money on climate change, on charging stations. one thing everybody can agree on is let's get kids out of poverty. host: a couple of editorial reactions from the senator's decision. james downey from the washington post writes, the idea that manchin, who has won state election six times, cannot ask plane a popular, useful bill to his constituents is -- explain a popular quit useful bill to his constituents is laughable.

and suggested focusing on omicron variant instead, which is the only play because he wants to delay the bill for months. lastly, he purred -- predicted the climate predict -- -- he predicted that the climate provisions would have consequences. those with the a blow to his family coal business. that is james downey from the washington post. the editors of the wall street journal also giving their thoughts this morning on the news from yesterday, saying a silverlining for democrats is this gives them a chance to face political reality before they leave office. the democratic left must confront the limits of their power. elizabeth warren thought they could bully their agenda through the senate. their failure to narrow their ambition doomed the bill, yet they persuaded mr. biden he had to govern from the left and what

determines to be a catastrophic misjudgment. that is the editorial from the wall street journal. this is mike in wisconsin, democrats line. caller: good morning. i do not support senator manchin's decision in the main reason is it is because it is paid for. for once, democrats were on the side of asking multimillionaires and billionaires in this country who have greatly benefited from covid to actually pay their fair share. the biggest thing is the trump tax cut, which for the next six years is going to add $1.2 trillion to our national debt, part of it going to the wealthiest americans, all we are asking for is stop that and give that money to average americans and help them with childcare and senior care and especially

bringing down the cost of insulin. host: one of the concerns was some programs will be enacted on a temporary basis and would then become permanent. according to estimates, that would drive up the cost overall as far as the overall package is concerned. what do you think of that? caller: all we can ever talk about is what is in the current bill. i do not know how you can look at in the future we may do this. i do not understand his reasoning for that reason. host: mike is in wisconsin. we will hear from scott in a, independent line. -- in new york, independent line. caller: i went to colorado a couple years ago. i love c-span. could we all get along for just a week?

i am a christian human. i believe in christ. they word is sitting on the fence. what joe manchin does as he sits on the fence because he does not want to make democrats too upset but he is in a republican state so he is playing the republicans to get the republican votes and gets the democrat votes just because he is on the democratic ticket. they do not hit it because of joe manchin care they hit it because they are democrats. the republicans no joe manchin is going to stay on the fence and do what he has to do to keep everybody happy. host: you are saying yesterday's decision is not final as far as senator manchin is concerned? he is sitting defense? -- the fence?

caller: i am saying everything he does. i have been watching for years, especially during the trump years. he was riding the fence. he would say, i'm not opposed to trump, but i am hearing so he could keep his republican voters in west virginia. west virginia is a crutch, kill, destroy state and have heroin, poverty, no plan to help any sick people. merry christmas. host: that is scott in new york. let's hear from james in st. louis, missouri. caller: it is me. i was thing about -- i did not hear all of what was said, but i heard -- i am thinking and then i heard -- and the other lady

saying this and that. my point is i think they just have a vote and let the chips fall where they may. host: what do you think that proves? what do you think that offers to senator manchin? caller: i do not know. it may be the best we can do. host: bernard is next from elk grove, california, independent line. caller: the thing is this is all about the lobbyists. joe manchin and kyrsten sinema, they cannot make up their mind because they have to follow their orders from the lobbyists like citizens united. host: why do you think they are giving the orders and senator manchin is receiving them? caller: because that is why he

is going back and forth. he can never make up his mind because he is not sure what they want him to do yet. that is why he seems like a yo-yo. cinema -- senator sinema, she is probably done because arizona is not going to vote for her again. that is what he is always saying i just can't see it. he is never going to see it. he told the truth when he said that democrats have to vote in more democrats and that way you do not need me. if you need me, you are going to lose every time. so you have to get me out of the equation. if you cannot get me out of the equation, this is what you have to deal with. if he was resident, he would not want nobody to do that to him, what he is doing, because he has to follow the money behind him. host: that is bernard in

california. in other news, c-span reports three democratic members of congress announced they had breakthrough coronavirus infections. elizabeth warren, cory booker, and jason crow tested positive for covid-19. they all reported having received covid-19 booster shots and experiencing mild symptoms from that. the atlanta journal-constitution highlights the passing of former representative johnny isakson. they write, he spent his life cutting deals when the georgia republican party was mostly confined. he learned early on what it took to get two sides to an agreement and continued to apply those skills even after republicans submitted -- cemented their political dominance in the statement making him a beloved figure among republicans and democrats.

his motto was simple. there are two types of people in the world, friends and future friends. he died at the age of 76 sunday. he retired before the end of his third term when he began to suffer from symptoms of parkinson's disease. here is a portion of those farewell remarks from the senate floor. [video clip] >> you find anybody in business or anything else -- life is a win-win proposition. so -- more nice things were said about me than i deserve. it is clear to me how much this place means. i am the happiest guy you have ever seen. more happy -- i think you know

what i'm talking about. we can do it. we can do anything. we may be called liberal and may be called a rino and whatever it is. let's solve the problem and see what happens. most people who call people names and point fingers do not have a solution themselves. they just make sure you do not solve it. we have to start doing that and bipartisanship will become the way to accomplish things my state of being. it will be the end of a bad time and the beginning of another. god bless all of you and thank you for your support and friendship. it means more than i could ever tell you. i will always be there for you, whether it is buying dinner, going to church, just listening to one of your speeches. god bless all of you and thank you very much.

[applause] host: that speech by the way, if you go to our website, you can find that. the house is on a break at about 10:30 this morning. on c-span, a pro forma session -- c-span two, a pro forma session of the senate. the president's commission report on the supreme court will be at 1:00 this afternoon. you can follow along on c-span and our c-span now app. later this afternoon, the national press club, dr. anthony fauci will give remarks on the virus and omicron and everything covid related. you can follow on our app. let's hear from david from ohio, democrats line.

caller: i would like to say first thanks for giving me time. i am pretty upset with all the senators, representatives that we have in d.c. right now because basically they do not care about saving our country and they are grasping for straws. they will do anything to get attention and divide the country. basically, as far as joe biden is concerned, i am upset with him. i am upset with joe biden. i am upset with the democratic party because when he took office the first thing he should have done that he did not do was go after trump. who basically did his best to destroy our democracy.

host: when it comes to the build back better act and senator manchin's decision, what do you think of the decision and the future of anything passing from this act? caller: i am from west virginia. i am 83 years old now. i grew up in west virginia. as far as joe manchin is concerned, i would not vote for joe manchin. host: let's go to ron in massachusetts, independent line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have noticed that baseball teams trade players back and forth. do you think there is anyway way we can trade joe manchin? host: let's go to vicki in texas, democrats line. caller: that last call makes me laugh. i am angry at mention.

his statement shows to me he is a coward or a quitter. there is plenty of time that can be spent working on that bill. i do not understand why he is walking away. he has been paid off. i do not know if you remember this old song for people who used to work in the minds, but i believe joe manchin owes his soul to the corporate coal. he got $500 million from the coal business from his family business. i do not know exactly what he is against and that bill. he keeps it vague about the cost , but he never talks about the specifics. what is it exactly he wants to see changed? host: yesterday, he was concerned about inflation. caller: that is a vague term. what does that have to do with the bill? what is the specific think he wants to take out of the bill that addresses his concern about inflation? he does not talk specifics.

it is all vagaries about costs, including inflation. host: he was concerned about climate provisions in the bill. caller: that does not have any logical relationship to inflation. he just does not want to spend money about climate change. the reason he is against those climate change provisions is because he is in the pocket of the coal industry. i would like to see him get only: his stocking. people want to deliver that filthy call to his luxury houseboat, i would love to see that happen. host: we will go to mike, republican line. caller: i have a couple points. thank god for manchin to stop this communist-socialist bill. not everybody in the country has children to get these tax credits.

a lot of people that don't have children need help too. one thing in this bill the democrats are pushing is that salt tax. they want to give millionaires and billionaires on the east coast, new york and new jersey and california, big financial tax breaks. hopefully joe manchin, cinema, and other ones who do not want to be ridiculed that agree with him are letting him be the lead in the fight. host: your support and admiration of joe manchin is only based on this decision or what you say that is an overall perspective? caller: he is the old school democrat, not the socialist bernie sanders democrat. i hope that him and kyrsten sinema stand up against these

liberals wanting to do away with the filibuster, with the electoral college. everybody between california does not believe in their values. host: new york, republican line. caller: i am also for manchin and what he is doing to stop the bill because he does not have to vote along the party line. he can be independent thinker. he can see what is in the bill. i do not think 50% of the congress has read the bill. i do not believe they have had enough time to read the bill. it is a large bill. a lot of giveaways with the money. i think they should do clean bills. i do not think they can build enough windmills to power the entire country. i just do not believe this is about climate change. i think it is a giveaway to the democrats who just want to the money.

if you do not vote with them, you are against them. it is a shame, what they are doing to this man. host: several calls from west virginia, including james. caller: this is the independent line? ok. i'm calling in. host: you would categorize yourself as an independent? caller: i support him all the way. this budget just got too much fat in it. i am glad somebody is standing up. i would support him whether he was from california or texas. host: you are from west virginia? which part? caller: i am about two miles north of farmington, where manchin grew up. host: as far as senator manchin

overall, would you say you are a general supporter of his no matter what you votes on? caller: now, it depends on what you votes on. this budget, i am against it and he is the only one standing up for us. host: is your concern over the coal aspect or energy aspect or are there other things? caller: there are other things. they're always hidden agendas in a bill before they pass it. they have not had time to look at it or whatever. i agree with senator manchin. i would vote for him whether he was a republican, democrat, or independent. bernie sanders i would not vote for. host: usa today reports an extension of the deadline to president biden's mandate for companies with over 100 staff, saying that deadline is moving out to february 9. a story this morning saying workers were not fully

vaccinated will not have to be regularly tested for coronavirus until that date, more than a month after the initial deadline. the labor department says it will not issue new penalties before january 10 and will take no action on the testing rules until february 9 as long as an employer is exercising reasonable efforts to come into compliance. usa today says the u.s. court of appeals reinstated president biden's requirement friday. a majority of the court ruled that osha is probably within legal authority to implement the temporary standards requiring vaccines. let's go to kenneth, texas. caller: i live down here in texas. if joe manchin -- joe manchin came down here and sold his vote to the oil and gas companies. there is no way he is going to

pass a bill with a climate thing and it because coal companies do not want to see the climate part of this bill passed. host: how exactly did he sell the vote in texas? caller: he came down here. they threw him a benefit so he could build his war chest for running for senate again. it was just oil and gas people. ted cruz set it up. he sold out the country is what he did. he sold out our grandkids. the world, the planet, is losing its battle with climate change. he does not care. he does not care that our children are going to live on a planet where it is intolerable. it is all about his power, holding onto his seat. it has nothing to do with what is good for the country and

planet. it has to do with power. host: we will go to joe and alabama, republican line. caller: i think the democrats ought to do what they told republicans to do when john mccain voted against trump. they said to respect the vote. it is his opinion. they should do the same thing. host: why does that apply in this case? caller: i'm just talking about his opinion. and how he feels. he should vote. if you voted against it, they should respect his vote and quit complaining. host: ok. one more call. this is tom, democrats line. caller: hello? how are you? i think they should, instead of

calling it build back better, they should focus on fixing what is broken. too many people on here do not understand inflation. if they are not going to raise taxes to pay for this, they are going to be printing money and you know what that means. it is going to increase inflation. that is the point i wanted to make. host: that is tom in pennsylvania, finishing off this hour. thanks to all of you who called and participated. two segments coming up on this program. next, we will be joined by jefferson morley. he will join us to discuss the recent release of documents related to the former president's murder. a conversation on the global covid response and lessens the u.s. could learn from other countries with medix global president and ceo.

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executive editor of a reporting project. watch every sunday on c-span2. find a full schedule in your program guide. or watch online a booktv.org. ♪ announcer: washington, unfiltered. c-span in your pocket. download c-span now today. ♪ announcer: "washington journal" continues. jefferson morley doing this is jefferson morley, the author of "cia, jfk the secret assassination files." thank you for joining us. talk about your work as someone who researches the events of jfk's murder. jfk my background is -- guest: my background is about

jfk and officials during the 1960's, when scott was --. james angleton was the chief of counterintelligence at the cia from 1954-1974. i have a biography about him. and i have a forthcoming book, the story of richard nixon and richard helm, the its director of the cia. when they were all major cia officials from the 1950's and 1960's, they were all friends and involved in the events of 1963. i do not write about the kennedy assassination per se, i write about the assassination in the context of the cia. host: what is important for viewers to understand on the position you take? guest: i do not write about conspiracy theories, i write about whether the events of 1963 looks like to cia insiders.

this is the story we know. not a story that could be known in 1963. but how did these men see what happened in dallas, what happened with the investigation and how did they respond? what we see in all three stories is the idea that one man alone came along and killed the president for no reason. none of the men acted like that was the case. rather, they acted lightly harvey oswald was a sensitive matter, whose knowledge, actions, and whose knowledge by the cia had to be held closely. what we saw this week is a process still unfolding, the cia is still holding closely certain information about kennedy's assassination. my books are designed to open up this and say, what did the assassination look like to the cia itself? host: when it comes to the information you talk about, there was a release of documents by the national archives

recently. talk about that and put into perspective what has been held by the archives concerning the jfk assassination. guest: last week, 1491 documents that contained reactions, omitted material, were released in full for the first time. 14,000 documents related to kennedy's assassination remain or continue to have read actions. so, we got less than 10% of the outstanding documents last week. also, it is important to understand when you think about that release, why are we releasing records? in 1992, congress passed the jfk records act. at that point, oliver stone had just made a movie and scored points in public opinion by pointing out the very true fact that 30 years after the assassination, almost all of the government's records on the

subject were classified. stone put a trailer at the end of his movie and said, write your if you object this. capitol hill was inundated with mail, asking, why doesn't the government release the information? congress ashamed into doing the right thing. and the records act said we will release all of jfk's records, we will clear the record and make this transparent to everybody. w want all jfk records to be public. they created a process to do that. they created something called the assassination records review board, an independent board made up of civilian experts. they went to each government agency and said, show us your jfk records, we will review them for classified information and then make them public. in the 1990's, that is what they did. they declassified more than 300,000 records related to kennedy's assassination, 5 million pages. this was a big step forward in

terms of completing historical records of jfk's assassination. host: go ahead. guest: yeah. but, the law gave the agencies, primarily the cia and fbi, but government agencies the right to withhold certain information for a certain amount of time. what congress said was after 25 years, everything must be made public. the law passed in 1992, 25 years later, october of 2017, the question came to president trump. the cia director, mike pompeo, said we cannot release this information, we have to keep it secret. host: if i may interrupt, some of those concerns, they were because of national security. what do you think about that as an argument? guest: when you see what is withheld, you will laugh. it will be things like, we had an intelligence relationship with the british government.

at that was one of the things released this week. we had an intelligent relationship with the british. now, is it a national security secret that the u.s. has intelligence relations with great britain? that is preposterous, but that is the kind of thing going on, wild over classification. national security has given us the justification, but when you look at what is actually withheld, it is very rarely something that is or rises to the level of national security. um, in these documents there are names of informants. that is the kind of material that was previously withheld, but we are talking about events that happened about 50 or 60 years ago. it was 58 years ago that jfk was assassinated. so, the national security value of the information withheld, in most cases it is minimal.

or nonexistent. host: let me invite our callers into the conversation. if you want to ask questions, you can call us at 202-748-8000 for those in the eastern and central time zones. 202-748-8001 for those in the mountain and pacific time zones. text us at 202-748-8003. you go back to that deadline, october 26, 2017, when it goes to the trump administration, it gets extended, why? guest: he said it had to be withheld for another four years. he gave the cia and fbi and other agencies another four years of secrecy. so, that kicked the question to president biden in october of 2021. and again, the cia and fbi failed to meet the deadline. the president announced that the agencies could continue to withhold material, but they had to do -- had to deliver

something. last week, we got 10% of the 15,000 documents that still have read actions, leaving 14,000, which are supposed to be released a year from now. frankly, i do not believe it. they have blown the deadline twice. and on the third time around, they give us 10% of what the law requires. so, clearly the cia does not want to obey the law. they keep evading the requirements, they have done it three times. so i am not sure we will ever see these records. but according to the law, they are supposed to be released a year from now. that is the big picture. they have bill -- have blown the deadline twice. and most of these records have been seen before. not a lot of surprises in here. probably, out of those 1491 documents, most of which are from the cia, 900 of them, we have seen them before for the

most part. only a couple of them seem to be entirely new. a couple of fbi documents. but the important thing is to step back and look at the big picture, right? which is, what have we learned since the documents began to come into the record? now, some people say there is no smoking gun. and they tried to end the conversation there. that not looking at, it's avoiding with the records tell us. we have learned of the official story that one man came along and killed the president and another guy killed that man and it, no politics involved, that explanation was never credible, and has gotten less credible over time. a couple things we have learned since the mid-1990's from the new records, uh, really stand out. one, the story that this man,

lee harvey oswald, came out of nowhere and we did not know anything about him, that is nonsense. they cia knew all about him, they had been following him for four years. they monitored all of his actions. every piece of paper in the federal government from the fbi, the state department, the office of naval intelligence, the marine corps, which oswald was in, all the information about oswald went to the counterintelligence staff, run by james ingalls and. i talk about this in my book, "the ghost." the idea he came out of nowhere, it's simply not true. say oswald shot the president. i am not sure he did, but say he did. the fact remains we now know top cia officials, very senior undercover operations officers, were informed about oswald's movements, his personal life, his political beliefs, and even

his contacts with brazilian foreign agents were known to top cia officers at six weeks before kennedy was killed. and when kennedy was killed and oswald arrested, the cia pretended they did not know anything about him. that pretense, we did not know anything about that guy, we now know that that was a lie. it was a lie from the start. that line has continued to this day. really, what we learned from the release last week, is they are still holding back the whole story. host: we have calls for you. ralph in new york. for our guest. thank you for calling. go ahead. caller: i got three questions for the guest. i'll be brief. the first one, we never got an answer for why oswald waited

until kandi got down street. he had a clear shot. the second question is, jacqueline kennedy, if you look at the phone closely, her head is right in front of the president's head, so it seems like if he was shot from behind it she would've been assassinated. if you watch the film closely, his left shoulder bounces off the back of the seat cushion. , so he is really floored. i thank you. guest: good question. if oswald was in the sixth floor window, he had an easier shot as the motorcade approached as opposed to when it was going away. in the eyewitness testimony of the people at the scene, we see that a lot of people thought there was gunfire from different directions. the caller is right, it is a mystery. if that is the information, that

oswald was acting alone, why didn't he shoot earlier? jackie kennedy's position during the assassination, she is the closest eyewitness to what happened. now, jackie kennedy never believed the official story that one man alone killed the president. she believed the president was killed by his domestic enemies. she and bobby kennedy conveyed that message. this is something we have learned since the 1990's, jackie kennedy and bobby kennedy told a friend, who is going to the soviet union in 1963 after the president was killed, they said, here is a message to the leaders of the soviet union, there is talk oswald was a communist. we do not put stock in that. we believe the president was killed by domestic enemies. bobby kennedy said, if i regain the presidency i will continue

my brother's policies. they sent a very friendly message to the soviet government, saying, we do not buy this business about oswald being a communist or the president was killed by a communist, we believe he was killed by domestic enemies. that was a strong belief. bobby kennedy held that belief for the rest of his life. host: in georgia, michael. caller: good morning. i was five years old when this happened and it was mine 9/11 up until my adulthood. the day he was assassinated, then when he was buried, it told me everything all the way up to -- my question is, if you think the cia was privy to it also walled was doing -- oswald was doing, do you think other people in the government might've known also? thank you. guest: very good question. i was five years old also win at

happened, so we come to this with the same experience. i remember sitting around a black-and-white tv, and i knew something big had happened. that was all. a very good question, what did people in the upper echelons of the cia know about lee harvey oswald? there was a group of top officials, as i said, the chief of operations in the western hemisphere, the chief of operations in mexico city, the assistant to counterintelligence james angleton, the assistant to richard holmes, all these people were informed about oswald's movements six weeks before the assassination. what did they know? this is part of why people still want the rest of the story, because we do not have a good explanation. the cia has never explained. i hope that people will go to the cia and ask, now that we have most of the records, 95% of

them, does the cia have an explanation for why so many top officials knew about the man who supposedly killed the president and did not do anything. what is the explanation. we do not have a good explanation. that is why people are still interested. host: congress took this on during the warren commission. what do you think about those conclusions? guest: it was operating at the mercy of the cia, so i think the commission did not have access to all of the information and i think they were misled by the cia. i do not think, i know. on the day lee harvey oswald was arrested, people said, do you have anything on this guy, this former marine who had lived in the soviet union? the cia said, we have a handful of documents, five records about him. a newspaper clipping and a few other things.

that was the story on november 22 in 1963, the cia said we have five records. that was a lie. the warren commission found out that the cia had other records, so they went back to ask them for them. 10 weeks later, 10 weeks, the cia admitted, no, we did not have only five documents, we had 42 documents on him, that were collected over the course of four years. the cia deputy director, richard holmes, told the commission that the information they had on oswald was "minimal." in fact, the new his personal life, his politics and they were reading his mail, that is how closely he was watched. everywhere he went, the cia was updated about his movements, where he was living, what he was doing. the cia was well-informed.

they watched all the walled come back from the sous vide union, go to texas, go to new orleans. he went to mexico city. the cia knew about that. he came back, he was living in texas. the cia was informed that lee harvey oswald was in texas on november 15, 1963. that's how much they knew about him. after the president was killed, and he was arrested, then killed, the cia played dumb and said, we do not know anything about this guy. basically what we found out last week is they are still lying. one important thing did happen last week. i get calls on 1491 documents coming out, is there a smoking gun in there? you cannot do historical research on a newspaper deadline, on an internet deadline, it does not work. you have to spend time with it. but one thing jumps out at me. and have not gone through all

the records yet, but i am getting there. one thing that is important to understand is i believe that now the pre-assassination, the cia's pre-assassination file on lee harvey oswald, all the information they collected on him from 1959 to november 20 1, 1963, those documents have been declassified in full, for the first time. think about that. it has been 58 years, and only last week did we have a completely unredacted copy of all of those records. so, what does that mean? why did it take 58 years to declassified the file on lee harvey oswald? that is a good question and one that jfk researchers will begin to try to answer now. we do not have an explanation from the cia, they are still playing dumb. and still withholding records. so we face this problem of a cia that does not want to obey the law, and has not provided

all the records, but we are beginning to get to the complete historical record of kennedy's assassination, and that is an important step. host: can we take another call? go ahead. caller: yes, good morning. i really appreciate your journalistic work here. have you seen the oliver stone jfk revisited? great program. guest: i was interviewed in it. yes, i have seen it. caller: very good. i must say that my take on this holding is, when people start talking about nobody is above the law, you better believe there is. and we were warned of it, and jfk got in the crosshairs of it, when he did not give air support in cuba, the cia was not happy. he was going to cut their budget by about 30%, h wanted toe

shatter it because they were too powerful, acting outside of the law. and they are still doing that today. our inspector -- the one working on that commission. i cannot believe they put dulles on there. the guy that gets fired, he ends up being on the commission. that is one of the weirdest dudes i have ever seen. if you watch the movie coming will see how creepy he is. bottom line, the cia took out the president and nobody has been accountable for it. the shot came from the front. people went running out. host: we will let the guest answer. thank you. guest: yeah, a month after kennedy's assassination, former president harry truman, the 33rd president, wrote an editorial in which he called for the abolition of the cia. now, truman did not talk about

jfk's assassination in the column, and he never publicly linked his opinion to kennedy's assassination, but there is no doubt that truman's call for the abolition of the cia was a direct response to the assassination of kennedy. harry truman knew more about the cia than anybody, he was the one that signed it into existence in 1947, let me say reluctantly. initially, he was against the creation of a central intelligence agency, a peacetime intelligence agency. he said, we do not want an american gestapo. because a peacetime secret intelligence agency he viewed as a threat to the democratic process. two years later, the cold war is heating up, truman wants a source of information and he allows the creation of the cia, signs it into existence. when he is signing it into existence he is saying, we have to make sure we do not have an

american gestapo. he still had that same concern about a secret police. 14 years later, kennedy was killed, truman had had enough, and he said, abolish the cia. so the concern about the cia and kennedy's assassination started immediately, and at the top of the u.s. government, it started with harry truman. and then 58 years later, we see an agency that is refusing to comply with the law. a law passed unanimously by congress. they have blown two deadlines, now three. people, they simply do not believe the cia on this question. this is why they need to make the documents public. they have no credibility on jfk's assassination. host: we were talking about the white house concerning their release. they put out a statement saying

temporary continued postponement necessary to protect against identifiable arms of the military defense, law enforcement or the conduct of foreign relations with such gravity it outweighs the public interest. guest: when you look at these documents and you look at what is redacted, you know, identifiable harm to the national defense, nothing, nothing that was released last week would've harmed the national defense if had been released to years ago. i guarantee you that. nothing rose to that level of seriousness. there may still be things still being withheld from a true national security information in these records, but it is a tiny percentage. it's not 14,000 documents, which continue to have reactions. host: our guest is jefferson morley, talking about the new jfk assassination documents released. mike in massachusetts, good morning. caller: good morning.

this very important subject for me. i was alive during the day of kennedy. and i have a question, my question is -- when batista ran cuba before fidel castro came into power, the gambling industry was on the role of a lifetime. kennedy's failure to rid cuba of fidel castro cost the gambling industry a fortune, because they were literally run out of cuba. my question is, going past the cia, i think -- i was wondering, is there the possibility that those in charge of the gambling industry, knowing that they were please when kennedy disappeared from the scene, did they have a role in putting kennedy away?

it is a tough question. host: ok, thank you. guest: the caller's right, the gambling industry was very big in havana in the late 1950's. they were building hotels, they had favorable income tax provisions, and they had a free hand, basically. they were making lots of money. when fidel castro took power, they were driven out and they lost lots of money and they were very bitter about it. and they wanted to regain their standing. i think in recent years, i have not seen evidence that suggests organized crime were the intellectual authors of the assassination. i do you think the fact jack ruby killed at least harvey oswald, and he was a man that aspired to be an organized crime figure, i think the assassination of lee harvey oswald is a sign of organized

crime involvement in the events of 1963. i do not think that organized crime organized the assassination of the president. host: mary lou in connecticut, you are next. caller: good morning. yes, that is true what you just said, fidel castro was behind at killing of bobby and jack kennedy, because jack and bobby kennedy were going to kill fidel castro. and he said, oh no, they are not going to kill me, i'm going to kill them. and they were connected to the chicago mafia through their father in the prohibition era. and so, when they said that jack ruby was -- fidel arranged, what

is it, lee harvey oswald, because neither one of them were smart enough to ever pull off something like that. fidel castro is absolutely responsible for the killings. guest: there is no evidence of that. there is no evidence that fidel castro was involved in kennedy's assassination. it's simply not true. but let's keep our eye on the news and what is going on now. but no castro is not withholding 14,000 documents from the u.s. public, he is dead. fidel castro did not have anything to do with kennedy's assassination. he said, after the assassination, this is very bad news. kennedy was a man beginning to make moves towards peace with cuba. castro was very disappointed and upset about kennedy's killing

because it made life more difficult for him. he had seen hope for reconciliation with the united states under kennedy, perhaps in his second term, and this is why kennedy's enemies hated him, because he did not invade cuba, not during the bay of pigs or the cuban missile crisis. so the idea that fidel castro was behind the assassination, that was a notion that the cia put out after the assassination, but there is no factual basis to it. host: why do you think that after all these years, the assassination still holds fascination with people? guest: because the government has never provided a credible explanation. because the cia has been lying about it. like i said, on day one they told the first lie about the assassination, and lies have continued ever since. when people get lies, and they are asked to believe a story that is not credible, then they come up with -- then people are

searching for an answer. the reason the story endures is because we do not have a good explanation of what happened. and we have a secret intelligence agency that continues to withhold documents of the murder of a president, 58 years later, in defiance of the law. what else are people going to think than they must be hiding something serious, otherwise why wouldn't they come forward. if it is so cut and dry, this guy killed the president. if it was so simple, why did it take so many years to declassify the oswald file? that is something the cia cannot explain. the cia has the jfk problem they do not have a credible story to tell and they have a lot to hide, that is the reality right now. host: who is responsible at the national archives to watch over the material? guest: they work with the

agencies, the agencies are supposed to pass on any jfk records they have in their possession, the archives puts them out to the public. but the archives is a big government agency, with a budget of about $350 million a year. they are dealing with a cia, a $15 billion year agency. in that situation, the archives is not in a position to dictate anything to the cia. to the contrary, the cia dictates to the national archives. if they do not want to release something, the archives is not an imposition, they do not have the force to enforce the law. in the 1990's, when we had the review board, you had an independent agency that could go to the cia or fbi and say, we want this document, we will make it public. and the agency had to comply.

there is no independent authority now, which is why the cia has a sense of impunity. congress passed a law for the jfk records, but at the cia they said, we do not feel like obeying that law, so we will not obey it. and trump went along with them, and biden went along with them. congress passes a law, they do not want to abide, ok. host: this is from edison, new jersey -- steven. caller: good morning. i believe with this man is saying, he is absolutely right. i wonder if he has come across the james file confession and david atlee phillips, if he noticed those two names. guest: james files is a man in prison, i think he got out recently, who claimed he was the

assassin. that he was the one that shot the president. files does not have any independent corroboration of his story, so it is hard to know what to make of it. he could have, based on what he said, i think he could've learned all the things he said from reading the literature of the assassination. i do not know. i do not disbelieve it. i just think we do not know enough whether we should credit that story. david atlee phillips, he was mentioned by james files, he was a senior operations officer in the cia. he is one of the senior officers tha it mentioned before, who knew all about oswald before the assassination. there is a big file on david atlee phillips that remains with many reactions, an we didd not see any of that last week. he is a person of interest to

jfk researchers. he knew a lot about lee harvey oswald before the assassination, when he was called in the investigation he told a bunch of stories about oswald. some of them contradictory. he could not keep his stories straight. i mean, if it is so simple that oswald shot the president, why would you tell somebody different stories about him? that is a good question about david phillips, there is information that has not been made public about him. host: have you or any other journalist tried to get information about the assassination through their freedom of information act? guest: we have. i spent 16 years in court with the cia pursuing records. i was looking for information about cia propaganda operations involving oswald.

this is another revelation we have had since the 1990's. it turns out that the people who immediately sought to blame kennedy's assassination on cuba, on fidel castro, were repeated cia agents working under a program called amp spell -- amsp ell, and we only learned in the last 15 or 20 years just how much they were controlled by the cia and run by the cia. so, the president is killed and assets are immediately putting out the story, cuba is to blame. well, why did they do that? who was behind that? my lawsuit was designed to get at that question, who were the officers that knew about the operation. and we learned a fair amount about that, but the cia stonewalled, and they were backed up by the courts, so a lot of the story never came out. why were the assets generating propaganda about oswald, before

and after the assassination? there is a document on the amspell program that is heavily redacted. it was not released. so, we have important information about cia operations around the accused assassin that are still secret. this is the problem we face. host: jim h in pittsburgh,i -- jim in pittsburgh, hi. caller: i want to know if anybody has asked robert f. kennedy junior about the cia? he spoke in milan, italy on november 16. guest: robert kennedy junior, the son of rfk, has said he believes his uncle, president kennedy, was killed by a conspiracy from within his own government. i do not know if he has talked about the cia specifically, but

he believes his uncle was killed by enemies in the u.s. government, an he hasd said that repeatedly over the years. host: we'll hear next from david. david is from missouri. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to ask your opinion on a boat i am sure you have -- book i'm sure you have read. , phil hartman who is a journalist -- phil har wastman -- full hartman was a journalist who said that the cia was at fault. thank you very much. guest: i have read tom hartman's book. i do not agree with all of it, but the picture he paints, the situation in 1963 that kennedy was in, the forces against him, i think the book is good on that, on that particular -- on

the setting of the assassination and what happened. who kennedy's enemies were at that time. host: we have a viewer who asked, you referenced him, but wanted to know more about jack ruby, what you think is important to know about him at this stage? guest: jack ruby is the man who killed lee harvey oswald, the suppose it assassin of the president. why did he kill him? ruby was asked afterwards. his lawyer told him, say you did it to spare jackie kennedy the pain of a trial. so that is what ruby mouthed. that became like, yes, he was trying to spare jackie kennedy. that is a preposterous claim. jack ruby ran a strip club, he was a pimp. he beat up people. his best friend was a dog. he had no feelings for jackie

kennedy whatsoever. and he despised bobby kennedy, because of his efforts to prosecute organized crime figures. i interviewed a woman that knew jack ruby well. she contacted me through my website. she had been a dancer in his club, and they became friends. ruby was sweet on her. he asked her to marry him, she said it was ridiculous. i asked, why did he kill oswald? she said, i asked him, he did not really answer, but i will tell you one thing, i do not think he had a choice. she said, everybody works for somebody. jack worked for people. and i think he had to kill him. i do not think he had a choice. i said, who was it? she said, i do not know. she was 20 at the time, but she was convinced ruby did not have a choice in killing oswald. that he had to do it. so, ruby was in jail, in dallas,

and chief justice warren came to visit him. he said, if you take me back to washington i will tell you the whole story. earl warren did not do that, because he did not want to know. so, they never brought ruby back to washington to testify to explain what he said was the whole story. so, he stayed in jail and died of cancer three years after, four years after the assassination. host: patty in connecticut. caller: relating to that, ruby visited by dorothy koval and -- kilallen, and she got all the information from him. and then she was bragging she was going to release it all. then she diedan untimely death.

they said she was on drugs. allegedly, the rumors were lyndon johnson was behind it, because he -- people in congress on corruption. can you talk about that? guest: it is true that lyndon johnson was under investigation, his sidekick a bobby baker had been implicated in various corruption schemes, and johnson was under investigation for that. it's not clear whether kennedy was going to keep john's -- to keep johnson on the ticket. i do not see evidence that johnson was involved in the assassination, but i think he knew instantly what had happened. and that is why, after oswald was killed, johnson and j edgar hoover got together on november 25, do days after the assassination, three days after,

and in the agreed that they would investigate and find oswald alone had killed the president. johnson and hoover were very specific. w need toe cut off speculation about oswald's motives, about his associations. very quickly, people at the top of the government realized the most convenient truth was this guy did it and nobody else is responsible, and we will not investigate anybody in the u.s. government involved in it. so, they decided what they wanted to find before the investigation had even begun, before kennedy had been buried, they decided they had the solution. on guy did it alone for no reasone. the warren commission verified it, but it was not credible. it simply wasn't. people say, conspiracy theorists, oh -- it's very simple, this has been thought up by conspiracy theorists.

but that is not true. pollsters went out a week after the assassination and did a valid poll of 1000 people, what do you think happened, who was responsible? in the two polls, 60%-70% of the people in dallas and nationwide it said more than one person was involved. at that time, there were no conspiracy theorists. oliver stone was in boarding school in pennsylvania. so it was not conspiracy theorists who came up with more than one person was involved, it was the circumstances of the crime that created that belief. it was not conspiracy theorists. it was the fact of the matter. and the government's explanation, this guy did it alone, you know, people never believed it. they did not believe it right after the assassination, and overtime that explanation has gotten less credible. with all the information we got

in the 1990's, has become even less credible. so the official theory has failed. it does not explain what happened on november 22, 1963, so we still do not know. host: one more call from zanesville, ohio. caller: good morning, c-span. host: you are on. go ahead. caller: the question i have is, does he put credence in the theory the secret service accidentally, from the limo behind the president's car, accidentally shot him? guest: it's nonsense. there's no evidence to support it. photographic, eyewitness, forensic evidence. it's one of those things that people make up. it is unfortunate that that story is still around. the guy who offered the theory, retracted it under threat of

legal action. no, it is nonsense. host: to finish up, if you had flax as to the documents, where would you start? guest: i would start with those propaganda operations around oswald, before and after the assassination. that is the most suspicious thing we have. why was the cia trying to blame the crime on cuba right after kennedy was killed? we still do not have a good explanation of who was behind that and what they were trying to achieve by that? jefferson morley is the author of several books. his website is jfkfacts.org. thank you for your time. happy holidays to you. coming up, how other countries are responding to covid, particularly in light of omicron . our guest is sigal atzmon, and we will talk to her about what

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organization or company does, especially when it looks at how other countries are dealing with covid. guest: sure. i actually founded medix in 2006, it is a health care management company that services over 7 million people today around the world in 90 different countries. we have offices in 13 different countries. our goal is to make health care more accessible, affordable and quality driven. we provide services that range from prevention, which is so important today with the pandemic, keeping people healthier and on track, all the way through disease management, for those people who have been diagnosed with a serious medical conditions, all the way to rehabilitation, fast tracking them back to normal life, and covid management. covid management is what helps us see what works and doesn't work on the ground, compare in

different countries, analyze data and advise people to get better at managing the pandemic, whether it is a government or hospital or just people out there who are all struggling and fighting through this difficult time. host: from what you are seeing in other countries, in the rule managing the response, what works and does not work? guest: i will take you straight to the facts. what works are the vaccines. and it is not enough to be vaccinated once or twice. if you are not boosted, if you did not get your booster, this will be a hard winter. so it is crucial to see countries -- we have seen countries fully vaccinated, with high rates of boosted people, i call them boosted people, they will actually cope and they are coping better. take israel, who has a digital health care system, very

accessible, vaccination databases are running digitally at a national level. boosters are high. the daily number of cases, even with omicron, is still manageable. and people who are getting sick are getting only a mild disease. so the first thing we see is the booster countries are dealing with things better, countries with a national health id, where the vaccination information is securely stored, are managing better. if can access data better and make better decisions. the other issue is, again, wearing masks, social distancing, keeping informed, governments being transparent and being able to take action. these are all important issues that need to be managed very tightly. host: when you talk about data, being collected, being centralized, i suppose at that would cause concern in countries about what is done with the data

and of the privacy of that data. how would you respond to that? guest: i have been asked specifically out of america, questions -- we cannot have a national database. my response is we in america trust and believe that americans are strong enough to actually keep the data secure, to keep it secure and use it only for the purpose of better managing the pandemic, making the right decisions, keeping it safe, and it can be constructed and created at a national level, but managed at the state level. that is very important. aggregate data, anonymous data, can then be shared at the national level so the government can make better decisions. right now in america, we see differences in vaccination rates between the states. it's not great. it is important to have a national health id for

vaccinations in order to better assess, understand and act upon what we see from the data. it is crucial and we see it working in other countries. i will go back to your question, you asked about freedom, about security of information, right? it's so important, pedro, to balance. it is not even balancing, it is juggling better between freedom and public national health. it is important within freedom we protect our people, we managed to find ways that it can choose what to do, choose whether to get vaccinated or not, yes. yes, we have to store their data, share the data, and they have to trust the government that they will do only right with her data. i think we can trust america. host: as far as other countries you work with, what kind of data is collected?

is it specific to names? particularly with covid, start with that. guest: the database i am speaking about is covid driven, it is covid irrelevant. and let me tell you, let me give you in example. if you take germany, france, the nhs, so the uk, and israel, these significant countries have fully -- data basis, who has been vaccinated, what date and where. you cannot move from one county to another, one state to another, or even share a paper from your first vaccine, not say that you have been vaccinated for the second one, and actually get your 31 if you are not eligible. that was months ago in america. this is not possible because the information is centralized, completely digital, and anywhere

you go they know by name on what date you have been vaccinated, your age, id number and how many vaccines you have. also, in certain countries, that makes it more interesting and more site full -- in a more insightful for governments to make decisions. israel has an app. first of all, they call or invite you, digitally, or they send you a text message, do you want to get vaccinated? here are your dates and options. within 20 minutes after being vaccinated, you get a text message, a caring one, asking -- how do you feel? do you have side effects? the same after 24 hours and a week. the whole country gets vaccinated, an thed country gets data about how people feel, what are the side effects. it's not just clinical research on a limited number of people, it is a country database that's

sharing how they felt and did they have side effects. the next up is the invite you for the second and third one. if you get sick and you have a covid-19 test, it would be shared on your database as well, so they can follow -- what's the time lapse between being vaccinated, the first, second or third vaccine, to when you got actually sick. we know now that with omicron, people might get sick, but only mildly, even if they have been boosted. so getting that information, the statistics of when a person was vaccinated and if, how many, how did they get sick is so crucial to understand how the pandemic works. we do not need to wake up in the morning to an omicron rushing through the country and getting

so many people sick, and we do not know how fast, how much -- we really need data. and this is our social responsibility, in my personal opinion, for people to share that information. they would actually want to share that information. to help themselves, to help other people and their communities. host: sigal atzmon is with us. ask her questions at 202-748-8000 in the eastern and central time zones. 202-748-8001 in the mountain and pacific time zones. you can tweet and text us as well. our first call is from jack in wisconsin, you are on with sigal atzmon. go ahead. caller: good morning. sharing information is critical for covid-19, but the issue i have with our government, with individuals such as your guest, is every health person i have talked to, they have not

mentioned to anybody about using vitamins, vitamin d3, to have your body absorb a and c, and then when you start feeling symptoms, double up on zinc. this is a proven anecdote to cold viruses, which of the coronavirus is. guest: hi, jack from wisconsin. you are really right. i want to acknowledge what you just said. it is useful for people to take, when they get sick, and even as a preventative measure, to slightly improve those doses of vitamin d and c. in certain countries, it is recommended to take zinc upon contracting covid-19. so this information is useful, thank you for sharing that. i do not know which dr. or

nurses you have been speaking with, but i know that there are many health care workers that share the information. sadly you had not heard that, but you are socially responsible and you shared at that today. host: he used the word anecdote, would you agree with that? guest: i think it is useful to have vitamin c during the winter anyway, especially during a pandemic, and has been proven to work and help prevent, but it will not fully protect or prevent. but it is useful before, with a normal dosage, and if you contract covid-19, covid-19 -- the best thing you should do is ask your doctor how much, when, and how you should take your vitamin. host: this is frank in west virginia. good morning. caller: covid-19, the shots in

the boosters and stuff, how come the government never bothered to tell the people about the side effects. i was reading up on it, you get hardening of the heart, all kinds of different symptoms and the doctors never told anybody about the symptoms. guest: i heard him a little bit strangely. i think the sound wasn't very good, can you summarize this question for me? host: that as far as attentional symptoms that there are side effects and his claim that the government wasn't saying what the side effects were. guest: ok, so it's very important for everyone to keep informed. the government has tried to be very transparent and share a lot of information. unfortunately there is a lot of misinformation out there and you should really be careful where you read and you should go and read mainly online in those

official government related websites. more importantly, yes, there are mild or side effects to vaccination. but they don't endanger anyone, they don't put you in danger, and they can be a pain in your arm, fatigue, or even a bit of fever and chills. they have been reported in the medical literature and shared by doctors and by the government. unfortunately, a lot of misinformation is out there and not everyone goes and reads in the right places. i encourage everyone of you to keep very informed, go to those official health websites, covid, cdc, you will find a lot of information. it's crucial to know that there are side effects and most of them are very, very mild and would absolutely not put anyone in danger. otherwise those vaccines would not have been approved. host: we have a viewer off of

twitter talking about data collection but then talking about the collection of data incorrectly, some counting second and first shots as -- second and third is first shots and the larger issue of the accuracy of data collected, what are other countries doing? host: this is a wonder -- guest: this is a wonderful question. if the data would be stored in a unified database, not being guided on how to securely store it on one system, we get these inaccuracies. countries who have digitalized one system for covid night -- covid vaccination, you cannot go around and get vaccinated in one state and then in another one in this data would not be shared between the systems.

it's crucial to have one system, usually in what we see in other countries, data is stored accurately and most importantly you don't have those little papers. right? i just came back from washington, new york, i've been in other states around america and i still saw people running around with their vaccination little cards. this should not be. we are at an age and time where digitalization has to be the norm and there needs to be a secure one stop shop database for vaccinations. then we would avoid the things that you bring up in your question. so, one, a national database. two, it needs to be secure. three, accuracy depends on how it is constructed, who puts it in. only health-care workers put it in and it has to be one unified database for the whole country.

host: a for instance, say there was information on someone who didn't get a vaccine. for the holders of information be putting undue pressure on that person because they haven't? host: i -- guest: i wouldn't want any pressure on anyone get vaccinated not get vaccinated, if about sharing the nation. -- it's about sharing information. i don't think that there is anything negative about saying would you like to have more information. that's not pressure, that's sharing information to empower that person. as medics we respect people's choices. i think america has to give people the choice and the option to choose whether to get vaccinated or not. however, these people should

share whether they have been vaccinated or not. they have to stand up for their choices after having received the information that is needed to make the right decision no matter what it is and i respect any decision. host: lauren, greensburg, pennsylvania, high, good morning. guest: i was wondering -- caller: i was wondering if the guest could explain in more detail what seems to be right from the beginning of this, the covid, is that how certain regions are more affected by covid, for instance, central africa, the middle east, eastern europe, don't seem to have as much trouble with this as we do in the western european nations, america, or south africa. are they using something different to combat the virus? or does she have an explanation?

thank you. guest: thank you for that great question, laura. interesting and urgent. first of all, i don't think different regions really cope differently. i think we have a lack of information or lesser information collected and shared from certain countries. we do see a greater collaboration between countries and a greater level of data sharing that has been very useful and important and actually saves lives because south africa has had the capability to actually find out this new variant, analyze it and share the information with the world on time so that we can take action. so, there is data. not every country has the capabilities of others to actually collect all the data and share that data. certain less developed countries are struggling with data

collection, but not struggling with the covid. everyone is currently struggling and unfortunately, not unfortunately, i would hope that more countries would reach vaccination equity and that more countries would have access. not just western countries, but weaker or less-developed countries, to vaccination and treatment and then we would see better results. i don't think that certain areas cope better. i think certain information might be shared and we are all in the same place. sorry, peter. host: no, my apologies. just reminding people, there is news as of this morning that israel says it is expanding as of today it's travel ban to 10 new countries, including the u.s., canada, germany. others are taking steps like

banning going to bars and restaurants. what do you think of this global outreach like you are seeing and do you see it happening again in the united states? guest: i absolutely predict different measures in different countries. i can already share that in the eu, different countries have put different travel restrictions in place. the netherlands has gone into complete lockdown. germany and france are banning entry from and restricting entry from certain countries. for example, from the u.k., where the omicron case numbers are quite high, in the u.k. we are reaching on average 100,000 cases a day, which is significantly high. the u.k. is a big concern. austria for example only allows fully vaccinated people to enter the country and has even restricted on christmas eve to

invite only up to four people to the dinner table. this is again going to be a challenging christmas for a lot of people. more and more countries trying to understand how to cope with this omicron new variant, who is may war -- way more contagious countries are still trying to figure it out. i expect the u.s. to also take certain measures with israel being extra careful. what we see in israel is not so many new cases, a few omicron, but it is still under control because a lot of people have been boosted. a majority of the population around the same time have received their booster vaccine. it's very important to have the same pace around getting vaccinated and that is where it

is going to be quite difficult for america because different states have been vaccinating at front rates and different pace. hence i expect america to undertake certain measures to restrict travel and to manage may be quarantine for other restrictions. host: our guest joining us from tel aviv this morning. karen, virginia. hello. caller: good morning, thank you so much for what you do. i 100% claim the unvaccinated for this third time around variant coming to the united states. there is not enough attention to this being an airborne virus. people are fighting masks, fighting kids in schools, this is ridiculous. we can't even agree on a mask mandate. it's not even a problem of misinformation. no one should be two years into

this and telling them what vitamins they need to take, where to get a booster or a shot . it's all over the place and it is rampant. the problem is too many people consider this political and the problem is that it is killing all of us. i don't understand why there isn't enough attention on the fact that this is an airborne virus and we will never return to immunity until we get past this. i'm over and exhausted trying to help people get their. it's very sad. when you see other countries making these strict policies and don't want to do it because we want to go to the nightclub on the weekends, it's ridiculous with people dying off and getting sick. i don't know what else to do. i protect myself, become very selfish and i no longer care about who makes it out and in because it's ridiculous that we are still in this place three years later until the next

variant comes around because we don't want to get out of our own way. guest: first of all, i understand your feelings. these are challenging and difficult times. we are all coping and sometimes each one of us gets angry, frustrated, tired. here i would like to share some maybe positive perspective about all this. first of all, we cannot blame america, the variant didn't come out of america. it's a global issue. not just america. it's about us as a world working together to collaborate and make it through these difficult times. the great news, though, one, we have vaccines. this is great. we have more and more treatment. let me tell you, pfizer and merck have developed and the fda has approved two new drugs that are on the way within a certain framework of time to patients

who have been sick with covid-19. they will be able to treat and have these people get better. less people will die from covid. we have other treatments, treatments like regeneron, remdesivir, we have treatments already in place. that is great news or something if you take 100 years back, no one would survive or so many even more people would die. within the hardship, there is good news. and yet we have to respect people who do not want to get vaccinated and we have to find ways, like green passports. green passports are a great tool to support people who want to get vaccinated and keep safe, go out and have a normal life, go to the nightclubs and it's ok to want to go to the nightclubs, the movies, the theater, and the

museum. but for that you need to get vaccinated and have a green passport or entry. if you don't want to get vaccinated, we are going to respect that because we respect freedom of choice, right, however, if you are not vaccinated, hence you do not want to endanger yourself or put others at risk and put your community at risk, you stay at home. you protect yourself and you respect other people's wishes to stay safe and go outside. it's about respect and making informed choices and unfortunately, still, certain people, laura, are not informed enough. it's everyone's responsibility, yours and ours to try not to be too angry and share information and respect people's choices. host: tuesday president biden is expected to make a speech, according to the reporting

leading up to it, that he's going to, the administration says they will announce new steps for communities that need assistance while issuing a stark warning for what the winter will look like for americans that choose to remain unvaccinated. what should be the message that the president delivers to the united states based on what you have learned and seen from other countries? guest: get vaccinated, get your boosters on time. wear your mask. keep social distancing when you can. travel only when necessary. protect your family, keep informed. these are very important steps that each and every one of us have to undertake. that will be the message. also, get tested. get tested. it's important to know. we will have to cope with the normal flu, covid, and other conditions. how do we make what is what?

the only option is getting vaccinated, tested if you feel unwell and keep social distancing if you can. read and keep informed. don't worry, just be socially responsible and we will all pull through the hard winter. host: all due respect, sounds similar to what we heard at the beginning when dealing with covid cases after we got vaccines. guest: true, however the good news is, with omicron, if we manage it in the rice way, less people will be likely to die, hospital beds will be available in it will be manageable. if we keep it right, this can become a kind of flu. between the vaccinations and the treatments, everything is going to somehow better settle down. but we have to unite. we have to really get together and put the politics aside. it's not about republicans and democrats, blue or red.

it's about getting together around being socially responsible in doing more of the same, true, but with better tools. we have boosters, treatments, we know how to cope with it. so, we are getting to a better place and i'm hopeful. although the winter is not going to be easy, i'm hopeful we can pull through. we just need to care about each other a bit more and not the angry. put the frustration aside, focus on being socially responsible. we have the tools, we have the medical breakthroughs. we just need to keep on doing better than we have done in the last two years. host: let's bring marsha into the conversation from north carolina. caller: does anyone know of other countries that have closed their borders, they are the ones who are highly vaccinated but

sweden never did ask up -- mask up or take any shots and they are fine. the ones that are in the hospitals right now, coming up with the virus, the delta, are the ones that are vaccinated. guest: ok, so, let me take you back to the facts and put them a bit in perspective. the ones who are currently in the hospital or dying from covid are people who get covid and are not vaccinated. this is not me sharing, this is medical science sharing. these are the reports from the leading hospitals from the who, the cdc, from all the countries who report in an organized manner. and the new england journal of medicine, all of these big publications analyze and share data.

the boosters and the vaccinations work. people who get vaccinated get some degree, a certain percentage of those people are going to get covid but milder. people who are dying and the lives that we are losing, unfortunately, are people who have not been vaccinated. if everyone would get vaccinated, we would lose much, much less people. to the other countries, in every single country people have died, unfortunately and given lives to covid. there is not one country, not sweden, not denmark, no other country in any other place where people have not died. certain countries have been more strict in lockdowns. longer, bigger mandates or different mandates, more mask wearing, less mask wearing, different numbers but everywhere, people got sick and died and right now it is clear

that people who have been vaccinated do not die from covid and that is great news and that is where we need to focus on. host: euclid, ohio, go ahead. caller: good morning to you. guest: good morning to you, too. caller: i just wanted to know about the virus. i read in this magazine aarp where it says the, i just have to read this to you. the vaccinate is not can death the mnr in -- mrna vaccine does not contain the virus. guest: i'm sorry, you mean the mrna vaccine? caller: yes, the vaccine, yes.

guest: the mrna vaccine does not contain the live virus. this is what i can share with you. host: do you have a follow-up? caller: yes, i wanted to know, when they give you these shots, it doesn't just contain what they say about the code. what do they mean by the code from the virus when they give you the vaccine shot? and another thing i wanted to ask the other caller was asking about the questions, when you get the side effects from the vaccine, they also, there was something i read about it hardening the heart valve. could you explain that to me also? how this vaccine just working on your heart? host: ok, go ahead.

guest: sure, my first question to you, if i may, if you want to share, don't want to share, feel free. host: i should highlight the fact the caller is no longer with us. guest: so let me answer this important question. first of all, there are mild side effects for certain people, it depends on your health and your age. a lot of criteria might change or kick in depending on who you are. the vaccine is a safe vaccine. the mrna does not have a live virus that is injected into your body. to your question with regards to heart pain or diarrhea, different people have different side effects. mild diarrhea is not a common one, however it can happen. also, you might have a diarrhea unrelated to the fact that you just got vaccinated. people tend to think i just got

this, so it's related to my vaccine. but we all tend to forget that people get sick, we get a flu or an your infection, diarrhea, stomach pain and it's ok. the vaccine has been proven to be safe and side effects are mild. the pfizer vaccine, the one that is predominately provided in america, has not shown to make any complications of disease or sickness in the heart. we have had other vaccines in other countries that a certain very low number percentage of people,'s pacifically the younger ones, had mild heart conditions that were easily managed, but that is not with the vaccines provided in america. rest assured, vaccines in america are safe. host: stan, odessa, texas.

joran, go ahead. caller: thanks for taking my call. two calls before this, that lady who was talking about the information and the unvaccinated, she kind of got off what i was going to say. you are, you are right about this. it's not complicated to see what the cdc is putting out there. not complicated to interpret what they are saying. these people keep calling up here with misinformation. it's hard. it's hard. i'm understanding what you are saying about information. one databank all over. all that's good. but this is the problem we are having. people are just not taking it for political reasons and i just don't understand that. i'm 72 years old.

i may never get to see the end of this stuff here. i don't have heart issues for me , but i mean they just don't want to listen. guest: i actually feel that more and more people are starting to listen. more and more people are getting informed. the voices that don't want to listen or who are very stubborn, you know, they stay with the misinformation that they have, the numbers are getting really smaller. so, i'm hopeful that we are improving and that together we are driving awareness and i'm very happy to hear your feedback that you fear -- feel there is information out there, that you read it and have been convinced of what is right and i'm actually hopeful that more and more americans will, people around the world will get more socially responsible in that we are all going in the right

direction. we are actually more and more of us getting vaccinated, boosted, wearing our masks, understanding that we need to be socially responsible and being protective of our own, our families and communities. i think we are on the right way and i would encourage you to stay hopeful, believe in people, believe that they want to do good and going the right direction. we are getting there. host: on politico this morning they are saying that even the cdc itself is having trouble keeping and collecting data, they say that continuing gaps in the data collection program, two years into the pandemic still relies on state health departments who use a mix of incompatible outdated state systems impedes the understanding of where and how fast the virus is spreading according to dozens of state and federal officials involved in tracking the cases. guest: this is fantastic, you

are supporting what i'm sharing with you today. host: i'm just saying that as far as the way that we data collect in the deficiencies there, which you are talking about. guest: let's all agree. america has data. could america do better with their data? absolutely. based on their decisions today a few things, their own data that they managed to collect and the data from other countries and i'm saying that america should do better and own its own digital health id in their own data across all of their populations. so that they can own it, analyze it, understand it better and drive better decisions. the cdc is doing a fantastic job in these challenging times. could they do a better one? absolutely. politicians and government have to come together to allow for a

digital health id with a vaccination database to finally be created in america and then you will not wake up in the morning and read those articles in politico. host: let's hear from one more caller, kirby and maryland. good morning. caller: yes, my question is, what kind of information do you have about their a few dix worldwide as far as different countries, like the use of ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine and others? what kind of success other countries have had, do you have that information? also, the mrna, it tells your body to make the protein spike from the virus itself. is that safe also? i will listen off-line. guest: thank you.

great question. so, i would like to focus on the available treatments in the ones that are going to be soon available and the ones that have been proven to be effective in useful and have been approved by the fda, which is very important, clearly, having an impact around the world and are helpful. this does not mean that every person that contracts covid has to get these treatments. you have very peculiar and strict criteria for when you should have and receive in hospital or by your doctors those different treatments. so i will show them again. at this point in time we have at least three clearly efficient treatments. one, regeneron is a treatment for mild covid. then we have a camera, inpatient treatment for severe covid. then we have remdesivir, given for mild medium conditions and

it doesn't actually improve mortality rates, but it shortens inpatient stays and gets better -- people better faster if they have medium covid. we also know that we have two new treatments coming straight out from merck and pfizer. they have been approved by the fda but have not been delivered to the market yet and provided to patients in regular health care settings due to certain delivery production supply chain issues that i believe will be solved very, very soon. between the vaccine and, to your question, i will share it again and really underscore this, the mrna vaccine is a safe vaccine. millions and millions of people around the world, globally, have received the vaccine and are

doing great. without the vaccines people would be dying everywhere, every day in the streets. god bless we have those vaccines and they are safe. they have been scientifically proven to be safe. they have been researched and in the last years we know how safe they are. on the others, we have treatments. so, we are really improving how we are coping with this pandemic . however, data is still crucial. we need better data, more data, national data to be analyzed in america and shared with the world. we don't want just the world to share data with america. we want better data in america to be shared with the world. host: sigal atzmon, we thank you for your time today. happy holidays to you. guest: happy holidays, pedro. it's been a pleasure, thank you so much for having me today.

host: and in this and part of our program we will engage in a session of open forum. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. we will take those calls when we continue. ♪ >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government, we are funded by these television companies and more, including cox. >> cox is committed to providing eligible families access to affordable internet. closing the digital divide. >> cox supports c-span as a public service along with these other television providers,

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well. alexandria ocasio-cortez on msnbc this morning talking about the joe manchin decision not to back the build back better plan or act and the write up in axios, she said it was democratic leadership including presidential leadership to blame for the death of the act, citing the decision by joe manchin. here's a portion of her comments from this morning. >> even joe manchin's compromise or the fact that he was making statements this past week that he was just having conversations with parliamentarians about voting rights that was illuminating, how has this not happened all year long? what we really need to do is crackdown on the senate that operates like an old boys club with a couple of gals in it that have managed to break through and we need to actually implement some institutional discipline. if people want to threaten to

block ambassadorships, they need to show up and do it. a talking filibuster? by the way, that is the compromise, there shouldn't even be a filibuster in the first place. they need to make sure that we are calling people to the threats. the idea that we can just go on fox news and legislate through television and say that we are going to threaten to block ambassadorships or threaten the filibuster, threaten to vote no, have that result in actual institutional inaction is unacceptable. host: from this morning, representative pramila jayapal, she said that he has betrayed his commitment to the president and democrats in congress but most importantly to the american people. he routinely says he's a man of his work but he cannot longer say that.

west virginians and the country know clearly who he is. you can read comments about other things in the world of politics and public policy, social media, text us as well. democrats, leavenworth, margaret, your first thought? caller: high, good morning. --hi, good morning. i wanted to say merry christmas to everybody coming up and i hope we get some peace. can you hear me? host: yep, you are on. caller: hello? host: you are on, go ahead. caller: well, my heart is kind of broken. i think i've got one of those omicron's or something. who knows how long we are all going to live. i was very, very disappointed in mansion, not only that, the whole year where he puts his big fat face and i wanted to drill a hole in his yacht.

other than that, people don't care about each other. i cannot believe the people that won't get vaccinated and that our believing ignorance over science. we are not the same country and so you just have to do some act of kindness around yourself. just an act of kindness to somebody. keep them warm, give them some food. love them a bit. except for joe manchin. host: let's hear from betty in chico, california, republican line. caller: yes, if you want to see personal testimonies of people who have had extremely hard side effects from the vaccine, you can see the videos on odyssey and on rumble and also i would like to issue a complaint about c-span having a person from a

medics corporation that is a stock, you can buy their stocks for $14 and it seems like you are just promoting a company there. it's like a 30 minute commercial for the people to invest in this company, medics. i don't think that that is what c-span is meant for. host: she didn't do that during the course of her time. she mainly answered the questions that were brought to her. that said, the the sites that you listed before as far as side effects, why do you trust them? caller: because they are personal testimonies and they have the people there that actually experience the side effects. there are many, many people who have, and they are not recording these people at the government level. they are just ignoring it totally and there is going to be rampant deaths and heart disease of young people in their teens

that is caused by the covid vaccine. host: ok, that's betty in california. sam, washington, d.c., independent line. host: happy holidays to have -- caller: happy holidays to everybody. i have a problem with mr. manchin who said all humanely possible. he uses fox news as a platform. what they need to do is unmask mr. manchin as and put all of his loyalty to his daughter, the kickbacks he gets from the corporations. he's a lackey of the corporations. west virginia is last in health care. the last in childcare. this guy does not care for west virginia. does not care for america. he's a lackey. he's taken hostage our

president. he's taken hostage the whole process. this guy needs to go. host: in the house, announcement of her retirement, a democrat in new jersey got -- joining a host of house democrats who have not decided to run for reelection. he represented new jersey state congressional districts since 2006 and he will leave the house after next year's election. robert menendez, son of bob menendez reportedly leading the pack of contenders to succeed him. he replaced the elder menendez in the house after the latter was appointed to serve in the u.s. senate. let's hear from ron in pennsylvania. democratic line. caller: in that segment on the jfk, i have a copy of the dallas morning news when they found the gun in the book depository

building. they called a german mauser. of course that didn't fit with the italian description from what oswald owned. i guess they had to change the story. on the other thing, too, on the warren commission, one of the investigators at the time said that she quit because the warren commission would deviate from the loan assassination. and said that is no way to do an investigation. i thought i would bring that up, i was going to call earlier with the gentleman that was on before. host: ok. that is ron there. if you want to see that segment by the way, you can go to your computer, c-span.org, but on the phone you can download the c-span now app and that segment will be there for a little while so that you can see it or if you

want to see it on the go. in fact a lot of archived material on either of those fronts. medford, new mexico, republican line. minnesota, i'm sorry. caller: good morning, pedro. i meant to call on the democratic line. host: wait, are you are republican or a democrat? caller: i called on the democratic line, pedro? host: i'm going to ask you to call back if you are a democrat, collect on the democratic line, the number there. we try to keep the lines parsed out into the political positions they hold. give us a call there. sylvia, missouri, independent line, hello. caller: the problem with covid is that requires long

hospitalization. even if it didn't kill anybody, many would die if they didn't have urgent care the hospital because it is packed with unvaccinated people. hospitals give for unvaccinated people, like a 10% of the hospitals, 30% or 50% to vaccinated people who have covid breakouts, the cases and the rest of the hospital for people with the drugs and of the ordinances. hospitals without the pandemic are usually packed. that's when you go to the er, sometimes you have to wait hours before getting there because the hospitals provide so many services. what they have to tell to people is not that they have to be

afraid of diving -- dying of covid, is that if they get covid there is a chance that they end up in the hospitals for months. host: taking a look at what hospitals were facing before the spread of omicron, nationwide 92 cities had hospitals with average intensive care occupancies at 100% or more according to the most recent data from the university of minnesota covid-19 hospital tracking project with 310 cities last week that had icus approaching full capacity with average occupancy of 90% to 99% earlier this month according to the analysis of data from the federal government. yesterday talking about things related to omicron and other related topics, typically what it means as we head into christmas week.

[video clip] >> the information we are getting from our south african colleagues still suggests that when you look at it totally, the hospitalization to case ratio is less than with delta. there seems to be less durability of symptomatology. less need for oxygen. but you got to be careful, that might be due to the fact that their population has so much experience with prior infections, it might be underlying immunity making it look like it is less severe and is a virus, it inherently may not be less severe. no matter how you look at it, chuck, with so many more infections, even if it is less severe, that overcomes this slight to moderate diminution in severity. our hospitals, if things look like they are looking now and the next week or two, are going to be very stressed with people.

because again, we have so many in this country eligible to be vaccinated who have not yet and vaccinated and that is going to be real problem for stress on the hospital system. >> do we have the right protocols in place? the amount of travel taking place in the next two weeks, do you believe it's reasonable considering the situation we are in? or should folks be making or rethinking their travel plans? >> i think that people just need to be prudent. clearly when you travel there's a risk of infection, that goes for all respiratory illnesses. if people need or want to travel this holiday season, if you are vaccinated and boosted and take care when going into congregate settings like airports to make sure you continually wear your mask, you should be ok. host: on the line for

republicans, south bend, indiana, hello, deborah. caller: how are you this morning? host: fine, but do me a favor and turned on the television. caller: sure, let me just quickly turn it off. ok, just give me a second. host: callers at home, just on case, if you are on hold and have a television on in the background, don't mind turning it down. caller: ok, it's off. this is open forums, right? host: yes. caller: ok, now my open forum is i'm not interested in talking about, ok, political issues, religious issues, we always going to have them. what i want to talk about is i

want to talk about what's going on in my world. turn it off. with my generation. my generation. i'm 74, i'm a great-grandmother. i've been a part of raising, shaping, and molding spiritual generations. now i am not happy about me raising them and telling them the difference between a truth and ally. now, when truth comes from the top, we are supposed to trust

that and honor it. but when the light comes from the top, in my world you want to take that lie and make my world think it's the truth? how do you expect me to talk to my younger generation, the doctors, the lawyers, the politicians, whatever they decide to be, how do you want to help me shape their minds? you have got to do better than this, now. host: let's hear from robert in new jersey, democrats line. caller: i hear joe manchin

talking about how we are not a left country, a center country, if anything we are a century -- center-right country. before the reagan era, our country embraced these growth developing new deals and social programs, right? i think you can be a center country and embrace those sort of programs. the reagan era drove us to the right. joe manchin, i heard him speak. i don't think he's a stupid person. he knows that, right? i don't understand what he's doing what he's doing. you could make the argument that he's representing the second most conservative state in the union. i guess he wants to be safe in front of conservative constituents but there is another argument to be made that

there's no way he's going to win reelection anyway no matter what he does because he has a d next to his name, so i don't know what he's doing. i'm at a loss and that's what i wanted to say. host: axios reporting this morning that in reaction to the joe manchin decision many democrats told axios that they don't believe that bill back better is truly dead in that it is a matter of figuring out what can actually pass in 2022 in that lawmakers, leadership aides told correspondence that it's a path represented by the one put out by suzanne del benny, proposing regrouping around a refined proposal with fewer programs that last a longer duration of time with representative josh gottheimer saying that he would do his part to help bring everyone back to the table. spanberger in virginia said that

it was unacceptable for joe manchin to abandon productive talks and nancy pelosi wrote sunday night that while it was disappointing that we may not have a law by the end of the year, we are hopeful we will sue -- soon reach agreement so that the legislation can pass as soon as possible and the new year. smits creek, michigan. michael joins us from there. michael, good morning, go ahead. caller: this is actually mark from milford, new hampshire. i want to make a quick point. i have deep found respect for u.s. senator joe manchin because it looks to me that he's not letting joe biden and the democrats get away with high spending that we can't afford at this time. real quick, to give you a real quick fact to all the democrats out there that don't like he's not falling in line with the party, when bush and cheney were leaving office, the first 43

presidents over 400 years, they left the white house with $10 trillion in debt. when we had obama and biden from 2009 to 2017 they doubled the debt in eight years to $20 trillion and i think that senator joe manchin is looking out for the people of west virginia and his fellow americans, like you are supposed to do. standing up to reason and saying i'm not going to let you guys get away with excessive spending. host: all right, we will hear from anthony and washington, d.c., democrats line. caller: a couple of points. the first one is, what has republicans done for the country? nothing. democrats started the social security program. do you know any republican willing to give up the social security? no.

democrats started medicaid and medicare. you know any republicans linked to give it up? no. a lot of republicans in kentucky , also in west virginia on public assistance. they helped allies. that is why the streets of kentucky and west virginia will always remain poor. they don't think critically in those states. why do you think you have all the ivy league colleges in blue states? blue states, if they removed themselves from this country, the united states would go down. the red states send very little money to the federal government. connecticut, a blue state, sends more money then west virginia and kentucky put together. host: ok, ok.

michael, smits creek. republican line. caller: why don't we stop the testing like obama did from sars? then you wouldn't have all these infections. is there solid data on this vaccine for this virus? if you don't, i don't want the shot. host: joseph, also on the republican line, good view, virginia. caller: sir, how are you today question mark host: fine, go ahead. caller: i support joe manchin 100%. one question, during that kennedy interview, the building in the background, what was it? host: go back to the first one and find out the second one, why do you support senator manchin? caller: he's 100% right. host: why so? caller: because i agree with

what he says. host: ok. that's joseph they are in good view, virginia. ray sean, kentucky, independent line. caller: i'm going to say a two for comment real quick. the first one regards the coat -- coronavirus and covid-19 pandemic. suggestion, maybe to convince a lot of people not taking it based on naturalistic grounds, there should be like a psa for these people. for example, philosophical, i took the covid vaccine, maybe the rest of you who are philosophical should take the covid-19 vaccine. hopefully that would probably work to reassure those particular poor people who are refusing taking the covid-19 vaccine.

host: one more call from chip, florida, republican line. caller: you've got all these crazies talking about putting down joe manchin. he's helping the country. we should have left donald trump alone. the country was going great. now these democrats are ruining the whole country. unbelievable. host: thank you all for watching today. don't forget the pro forma sessions in the house and senate this morning. the senate, 5:00 this afternoon. you can watch them on c-span1 and c-span two respectively. the presidential commission on the supreme court issuing their report today at the american constitution society at 1:00 this afternoon. want to see their findings as far as what the court should look like, you can watch on c-span, c-span.org and the c-span now app. that is it for today.

another program coming tomorrow morning at 7 a.m. see you then. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2021] ♪ >> today, legal experts discuss a report issued by the president's commission on the supreme court with the american constitution society, beginning at 1:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, online at c-span.org, or full coverage on c-span now, our new video app. this afternoon, dr. anthony fauci, director of the national institute of allergies and infectious diseases, discusses the current state of the pandemic at the national press club. watch live at 3:00 eastern on

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