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and the national review's john fund. then e&e news reporter hannah northey on the administration's plan to improve water safety. washington journal is next. ♪ host: it is the washington journal for december 21. joe manchin. back after november's election where he expressed the belief america was "a center-right country." that believes served as a guide for how he conducted his politics. we want to ask you if you agree or disagree with that. is america a center-right country? if you agree, tell us why. call (202) 748-8000.

you may disagree. tell us why at (202) 748-8001. you can text us at (202) 748-8003. post on her facebook page -- our facebook page and twitter as well. his statements came back in november with cnn. asked about the elections and serving in congress. senator manchin talked about his view of america and how he saw it and affects his politics. here is a portion of that from november. [video] >> we have to work together. we are a center-right country. we ought to be able to recognize that. all my friends on the left, progressives or liberals -- i'm not.

i'm a responsible west virginia democrat. i am fiscally responsible and socially compassionate. i think most people in the middle feel that way. host: that was the senator's statement from november. you may agree or disagree. call and tell us why. if you agree that america is a center-right is the number to call --(202) 748-8000 is the number to call. if you disagree, (202) 748-8001. the gallup organization keeps a track of political affiliation. it was back in january of this year where they asked people where they were politically. 25% responded republicans, 50% said independents, 25% saying democrats. november of this year, again asking the same question, do you consider yourself republican, democrat, or independent? 31% said republican.

41% said independent. 27% saying democrat. this was from the gallup organization. if you want to find that statement. a couple of comments from various publications on the topic of america as a center-right country. the prospect rights, as of this month, "it is not what used to be. the rockefeller republicans, the gerald ford moderates are nearly all gone from congress and national politics. center-right today is mainly the minority of conservatives who prize constitutional democracy. if democrats are to defeat trumpism, they cannot do it with measures that meet center-right approval. they need a program that makes genuine differences for the working people." that's from the american prospect. it was this month where sir david winston talked about the parties in the state of america

as far as its political leanings. "republicans have their own challenges. to decide whether or not to follow virginia governor-elect glenn youngkin's example but not relitigating the 2020 election and offering positive kitchen table agenda with real-world solutions. what they need without the drama the last two years is a fairly equivalent of his grocery tax cut, more parental involvement in education while focusing on conservative policies and communicating the policies those for -- the progress those policies will bring." if you agree or disagree, tell us why. let's hear from michael from california. he agrees with the statement. tell us why. caller: i think most americans, on issues that are important to

them, are basically in the middle into to the right of the middle. if you look at the house of representatives and the senate in the last election, even though trump lost, there are more republicans in the congress. i think america rejects the fringes. i think one of the reasons why biden's plan is suffering is because it's being promoted by people in the far left like the squad. most americans don't agree with them. i think people like manchin can help biden get his plans moving forward. america will never be the far right or the far left. being center-right is always where america is and where politics is in terms of getting things done. host: this comes on economic

issues or social issues or is it a mix? caller: i would say it is a mix. economically i think people tend to be more conservative. although there are times in america where we have big spending packages like during the depression with roosevelt and things like that. socially i think we are probably center-left. for the most part people tend to stay in the middle. that is where elections are won and lost and one of the reasons why the country is so divided. host: michael from california starting to stop. -- us off. james from georgia. caller: i disagree totally with everything the last caller said. this country is left. it is turning left. the only reason it is right or center-right is because it's a majority of white people in the

party. they are not for constitutional democracy. more people voted for biden. job manchin -- joe manchin is stopping then in a percent of the democratic party -- stopping 99% of the democratic party. gerrymandering took this house and took this senate. president biden has a mandate. take out the electoral college -- host: do you base the idea that america's center-left on the president's election or are there other factors? caller: there are not any other factors. the majority of white people vote against medicare, medicaid, social security. when trump was in office, the socialism party, they gave farmers, cruise lines, airlines, marjorie taylor greene got along. what would happen if they did

not -- if they got with a representative voted for? if you voted against it, you don't get it. host: clear fork, west virginia. bradley. hello. caller: good morning, how are you doing out there? host: you agree? caller: i am sick of hearing that screaming and hollering. when i was in vietnam, that is all i heard. get your money, get your stuff with your work. it don't need to be handed to you on a free platter. work for something. don't lay around and not do nothing. host: is america a center-right country? caller: yes. host: why is that? caller: this country needs to straighten up. it is going to the left. host: why do you think it is a center-right country? tell us why specifically. caller: what country?

host: why do you think america is a center-right country specifically? caller: this is america and it's a free country. i don't have a bit of problem with people coming in. come in and earn your respect and earn your income. current everything you've got. work for it. don't float and what everything for free and stuck in your mouth like a silver spoon. host: andy mcdonnell off our facebook page, where you can comment, says "the loudest voices are the only ones heard." brenda lee, says " senator manchin is correct." "the lawmakers that represent the minority are center-right. the majority of the constituents are in favor -- i believe she is a friend to senator manchin. brenda says, "we are a center

country but half the country are embracing socialism. we are a republic, which has worked for 250 years. let's fight for that." this goes back to senator manchin's comments about the idea that america is a center-right country. we went to see if you agree or disagree. yuma, arizona, on the disagree line. danny. good morning. caller: good morning, pedro, and merry christmas to you guys. down here in yuma, i do agree the our center-right. the country is split in half. down here we have a huge problem. yesterday the apprehended a suspected terrorist coming over the border. pedro, we are a small community. we cannot handle the influx of all these illegals coming in. host: clarify this. you called on the disagree line.

you disagree with that thought that america is a center-right country. caller: i apologize. i should have dialed the other number. i thought i was dialing that number. i do agree with it. host: we will go to sandy, also on the disagree line. columbus, ohio. caller: hello. i am calling this morning because i do disagree with manchin. i do think the country is -- should be center period. one man, one vote. host: when you say disagree, what do you base that on do you think? caller: i am basing it on that my belief that it should not be center-rife or -- center-right or center-left. it should be one man, one vote. what i wanted to talk about is

manchin. i don't believe there to be harm to anybody. host: we are talking about senator manchin's belief about america being a center-right country. where do you find yourself politically? are you progressive or conservative or center-left or center-right? caller: i am a moderate democrat. host: what does that mean to you? caller: i am not for unrealistic over the hill, and i'm not for people that want to keep people out of the process on the left side. that is what i mean by that. host: since you described yourself as a moderate democrat and talk about senator manchin, what do you think about him and the comments he made about build back better in recent days? caller: i disagree with him basically not coming along with a lot of the programs. i don't expect him to agree with all of them.

he has his constituents he has to speak to. but his state is in very much need of help. some of these things are good. i am not saying manchin should agree with price or lower amount, i'm saying negotiate. perhaps find the money. american people need help. no, people do work. host: that is sandy in columbus giving her thoughts on senator manchin. asking all of you to give your thoughts on the concept that senator manchin introduced. brookshire, texas. tiny on the green line. go ahead. caller: i do believe it is a center-right country. we have been a center-right country for over 200 years.

now we have everyone coming in. i don't agree with giving illegal immigrants the right to vote, giving immigrants $250,000. i don't agree with them teaching the critical race theory in schools. host: let me ask you this. what makes america a center-right country? what specifically do you look at and say america is a center-right country? caller: in god we trust. host: which means what? caller: which means, to me, we believe we all are created equal in the eyesight of god. god is not a racist. god do not believe the left --

people giving themselves into slavery in the democratic party. all of them are socialist. they care not about america or the constitution. host: that is tiny from texas. for those of you calling in, take the land that best represents you. text us at (202) 748-8003. it was yesterday in west virginia where senator manchin had an exchange about political philosophies, which goes to what he spoke about before in november. [video] >> when i first got to the senate in 2011, armed services committee, the joint chiefs were there. the chairman mike mullins asked, what is the greatest threat? i thought it was going to be another military might challenging us. he said the greatest -- i

always said to had to get your financial house in order. that never left me. i said, come on. now we are $29 trillion in debt. we were $14 trillion 10 years ago. don't you think we should take another approach? we are a 50-50 senate. you are approaching legislation like you have 55 or 60 senators that are democrats and you can do what you want. we are all diverse. i'm not a washington democrat. i still represent this interest wing of the democratic party. it has compassion and reasonability. host: that was the senator's statement courtesy of west virginia metro news where he did that interview. karen in alabama agrees that america is a center-right country. host: good morning, pedro.

i agree 100% with what he said and i'm glad you're having this on your show today. i feel like the majority of republicans and democrats are fiscally conservative in our everyday lives and socially progressive to appoint. i think some of the liberals have gone a little too crazy with climate change and mandates and that kind of thing, but if people would stop and think, the majority of the country is fiscally conservative, socially progressive. one of the things you can do is look at virginia. if you going to be honest about everything the bidens administration is trying to do with open borders and mandates, critical race theory and all that stuff, and you look at virginia, what happened in virginia? that will happen across the country in 2022. if people would just be honest. i wish -- people are so tired of

the people that have been representing the political elite, the d.c. area for so long, they are making themselves rich. host: the you describe yourself as fiscally right and socially left? caller: i do. host: when it comes to those progressive ideas, what would you support? caller: pro-choice. i am pro-choice. i infer -- i am for gay marriage. if that's what you want, that's fine. i don't care about that. i will not judge anybody. i'm trying to think of what else. i really think the majority of the country is like that. we want our freedoms, too. the mandates on the vaccine and people would stop and think and

stop yelling at each other, i guarantee the majority of the country feels this way. host: that is karen from alabama. francesca in elkhorn, wisconsin. caller: i think we are probably leaning more towards progressive. both on of micro and macro level. we have libraries. we have fire departments. we have police departments. sidewalks and roads are kept up in such. if you look at bigger level, we have a standing army. that gets the lion's share of the budget. progressives are better at looking at what's happening now and looking at the needs happening within the next couple of decades. both things have to be kept in balance. host: as far as the libraries and sidewalks, why are those progressive ideals to you?

correct me if i'm wrong. caller: i think they are progressive ideas because most people are socially progressive. they failed to remember most taxes are going towards not just one person but the many. host: francesca in wisconsin, things were calling. give us your thoughts. next to nelson -- jan in pennsylvania and west chancellor, pennsylvania on the agree line -- westchester, pennsylvania on the agree line. caller: every time they tried to pass something that would help the american people like the children's tax credit or anything, standing family medical leave, everybody has a fit. there are a lot of developed nations when a woman has a baby, she can get between six months

to a year off. as soon as they do a little something or want to put a little money out there towards the american people, everybody has a fit. yet they give billions of dollars to other people who they bring into this country, come into this country and don't look out for the american people. as far as the race theory thing, whatever, race in america is used as a weapon. if everybody had to get a dna test and based on that test they are reclassified -- i got one done. i'm african-american but i have a lot of high percentage of white and asian and other stuff. there is a lot of white people that are related to me that go as white in america with african in them. what i am saying is race is used

as a weapon. as far as manchin, he has the right to do whatever the people who vote him into office. if that is what he feels, oh well. those of the people who vote him in. if that is what they all don't want, help or whatever, don't let them have it. host: jan in pennsylvania. this is of you are. "america clearly used to be a center-right country but it may not be true today. maybe the senate's diplomatic of the 50-50 split among the electorate across the land. it is like a binary switch that could swift one way or another without warning." james from facebook disagrees. "the right would not be spending so much effort trying to disenfranchise voters who appear

as progressive leaning. the country's needs back for a left-leaning approach. a lot of money that goes to trying to convince voters they should be putting blinders and blindfolds on and vote right. manchin is just playing games with us." our social media avenues are available to discuss that. text us at (202) 748-8003 if you want to do that. sterling in maryland on the disagree line. caller: good morning, pedro. i disagree with what manchin said. people call and say -- talk about socialism. socialism is the police force, the firefighters, the military. that is socialism. sorry. the other thing is, america is not a center-right country. a high percentage of all the republicans and high percentage of the senate, they are

corporately controlled. it is not that people of west virginia did not want these policies. 90% of people supported most of the build back better in west virginia and 60% voted for the -- 68% wanted the entire package. they wanted him to vote for this. joe manchin is doing what is best for his corporate interests, his donors, the people to give him money. kids riding around on boats and yachts. manchin is not for the american people. he said he thought people would use or childcare tax credit to buy drugs. that's the kind of stuff ronald reagan was saying about black people in america back in the 1980's. host: boston, massachusetts. ronald on the disagree line. caller: pedro, this is ronald

from rocks. vanessa chooses. i was born -- from roxbury, massachusetts. you know what they are doing in washington, d.c. is not right. why did they go to the capitol? host: is america a center-right country or not? you called on the disagree line. caller: americans are heading for a socialist government. don't you see the picture? host: why do you disagree with the idea that america is not a center-right country? why do you specifically disagree america is a center-right country? caller: look what happened in afghanistan. the president did not do the right thing. i served in vietnam. i have five or six honorable discharges. i served in the hundred and first airborne division.

-- 101st airborne division. host: thomas from illinois on the disagree line. caller: i disagree because the country cannot be labeled as one set way of thinking. we are all center. fiscally conservative and socially liberal. that's the general trend. that is where you have got to go. host: when you say that is the general trend, what do you base that on? caller: the results of local elections. general issues like abortion and stuff like that. host: thomas in illinois mentioned joe manchin's statement about the child tax credit. after months of haggling with the president and democrats,

senator manchin dashed his party's hopes on sunday. his biggest gripes was the cause but he said he does not trust loan can people to spend government money wisely. adding in recent months, he told several fellow democrats he thought parents would waste child tax credit payments on drugs and set of providing for their children. continuing with the child tax credit for another year is a core part of build back better. the policy had already cut child party by nearly 30%. that is huffington post if you want to see that story. nelson in redwood city, california on the agree line. caller: i appreciate with the lady said who was a republican but she said she is progressive.

she gave a very good expo nation. -- explanation. the supreme court was very conservative. in west virginia, they voted for mike to caucus and hubert humphrey, the most liberal democrats to ever run for office. -- michael dukakis. what happened with rush limbaugh and newt gingrich, they demonized democrats so much. west virginia, kentucky, tennessee, they all voted for clinton twice. even when he was for partial-birth abortion. it's a battle going on about what is left and right. i think it is more right. more socially acceptable for -- to have somebody as a majority whip like steve scalise, who

admitted to speaking at a white nationalist rally than someone like aoc who believes in the same thing fdr does, 470 like paul gosar -- somebody like marjorie taylor greene who will lead the republican party. if they have a lot of anti-semitic rhetoric with them. host: that is nelson from california. we have done this for half an hour. we will continue for another half a number. your thoughts on if america is a center-my country. senator manchin making these comments back in november. you can agree or disagree. if you agree, (202) 748-8000 is the number to call. if you disagree, (202) 748-8001. the president plans to outline a further effort on fighting the omicron variant today. the hill reporting in a speech aimed at reassuring and persuading americans to take precautions, biden will announce

theyadministration's plan to purchase covid-19 tests to distribute for free if -- to any american who wants one. the president will also announce the also standup new federal testing sites around the country , helping states the need additional testing capacity. the first will be set up in new york city this week. biden campaigned on efforts to make tests widely available. a surging demand as omicron variant spreads rapidly across the country as well as cases driven by the delta variant. that speech this afternoon. you can see it on c-span and on c-span.org. if you're on the move you can download c-span now, the app on your device and monitor it there. you can get that a 2:30 this afternoon. robert in south carolina on the agree line on this concept floated by senator manchin on if

america is a center-right country. caller: thank you for taking my call. i agree that america is a center-right country. i don't agree with senator manchin. i believe because you have big businesses put money into congress on both sides of the aisle and -- they give this illusion of democracy happening. as long as they keep the american people on both sides ignorant and keep them from learning facts about how the country is ran, you can give us a right and a left but it's all was been center-right because they are on the right side as far as republicans so you get a way to wrap up people's emotions and then use the right as a cover. the american people need to

learn we are all in this boat together and we look at republicans and democrats not for what's right for the people, we have to educate ourselves what the government is supposed to be. but it's like the super rich took over our government and give that appearance of center-right. i don't agree with mr. mansion. i'm looking at things from afar and from within. we can make this country to be a paradise on earth if the american people would learn about how government is supposed to work. host: that's robert in south carolina. let's go to howard and george on the disagree line. -- in georgia on the disagree line.

one more time for howard. let's go to jerry in new jersey on our agree line. caller: listen, the reason democrats you got to listen carefully. we are being played. you will watch that they are going to bring this bill in small packages. that's what joe manchin is intending to do. it's knocking to be the big package because they can't get it through. it's not just joe manchin, it's other democrats. there's only a few that are disagreeing. you will watch this be broke up into different areas and minutes can a pass. so listen carefully. host: before you go on, this idea of america being a center-right country or not, you say you agree with that. caller: because we are fiscally responsible people.

nobody runs their budgets to play the government does. we all have to follow a budget. whether we have a lot of money, little money, we have to follow a budget. if i were to do with the government was doing i would be homeless. you have to follow a budget. host: let's hear from kevin. caller: good morning. i disagree. we are neither left nor right. historically those terms came out of the french revolution and then i think during world war ii it became with the soviet union was laughed and nazi germany was right. it seems like in today's rhetoric we have to pick do we want to be soviets or nazis. host: let's take the idea that senator manchin brings to the table as far as the way he sees

america being a center-right country and why you disagree. caller: i disagree because we are an exceptional country. every country believes the government's purpose is to take care of their people whereas in our country, it was found dated on the idea that the government's key people free. everything, senator manchin does , like most politicians on both sides of that, sometimes they want the government to take care of people and then there's a backlash when they take care of them too much i guess. to me, it's a false dichotomy and it's forcing people to oppose each other. we all need to focus on being free. host: when it comes to

retirement in the house of representatives, another one announced yesterday. political reporting stephanie murphy, a leading voice announced yesterday she won't seek reelection next fall. the democrat who flipped a gop held battleground seat in 2016 and helped write years ago that she's leaving the hell to spend more time with her family including her two school-age children. saying it's been a real honor to serve in congress but it comes of a personal sacrifice. it's been hard on my family and kids. the leader of the centrist blue dog coalition, she once challenged against marco rubio next fall. she said she will leave after her current term in the house. john in cleveland, ohio honor disagree line. good morning. caller: i want to quickly say

it's refreshing to hear someone who at least read some history and some self reflection. i assume he's referring to your question. america is a dynamic idea, experiment. for joe manchin might be center-right or he'd like it to be but it's dynamic and that's the tension and the struggle. host: you disagree with this idea that it's a center-right country, can you elaborate? caller: specifically because it's not either/or. that's the tension. it's in between. but i disagree someone makes the

emphatic statement that it center-right. it has center-right tendencies per joe manchin might be center-right. america is not a monolith. host: a couple of perspectives on opinions of where things should go with regard to senator manchin's position on build back better. an op-ed from bobby jindal. he was the u.s. representative, the headline democrats shouldn't build back better. this after promising to ease polarization by reaching across party lines. the american rescue plan act, the reconciliation process and negotiate the senate republicans offering compromise. an expansion of the welfare state that would dwarf obamacare

took other moderates for granted an effort to appease progressives. going on to write mr. biden should change course and pursue policies with broad support. record-breaking inflation shortages, the wisdom of mr. mansion so the economy can digest covid. that's bobby jindal of the wall street journal. also talks about the future of build back better and at least giving what he thinks should be done from the perspective he brings sing longer-term of democrats don't want to shrink their ambitions they need to win in the senate and keep their slim majority in the house. it won't be easy. progressive democrats are going to have to continue being patient and pragmatic. moderate democrats and mr. biden will have to put even more pressure on senders mansion and cinema. not just a support must needed social spending but also voting

rights legislation even if it means finding a way around the senate filibuster. democrats will have to start talking about what they can or won't do and instead talk about what they have already done. they might have to settle for a pared down build back better package that funds fewer programs over a longer span. more fat available. that is available in maryland. caller: good morning. i do agree with the observation and idea that currently our country is more like the center-right, but i disagree with his sentiment. as people, it is by nature, we like it when others succeed and we get joy from it but it's

never going to be at the cost of our own happiness and success. but at the same time we have to understand those people, that there are programs that can benefit us as a whole. i would like to see my tax dollars be spent on infrastructure. that's where i disagree with that. host: i'm assuming you are driving this morning. caller: yes. host: we will let you off so you can get back on the road. john in washington honor disagree line. caller: i disagree although i wish i could agree. because i think since ronald reagan we pretty much a center-right country, more

leaning right. someone else mentioned that's where the friction happens and i like the disciplinarian, the patriarch, the one that makes you learn good habits like getting up and making your bed, brushing your teeth and going to work where is the liberal is more like the spoiled child who wants to go back to bed and call in sick or fake like they are sick and have somebody come in and take care of them. so we need to be more conservative in this country and there's nothing that makes me more angry than to see a fully able-bodied man begging for change outside the store. everyday i go shopping i'm hit up by beggars. they should be working. there's so many job openings now.

there's no excuse to be begging. host: john and washington, d.c.. on our agree line, this is tim. caller: how are you doing. i'm on the disagree line. host: i'll stop you there only because you were calling on our agree line. i will invite you to call back on the line the best represents you. call back and we will get you on. let's go to james in ohio honor disagree line. caller: i disagree. i think the country is centerleft, but the conservative people to a better job of demonizing the poor and demonizing people to believe that everybody on the left wants everything free, don't want to work for anything.

they believe they are getting something for nothing. this goes back a long way. not that white people are racist, but there are so many people that believe when you go left you are pro-black or anti-white and the right has demonized the country to make everybody believe that if you go left or pro-black. >> when you say the country centerleft what you base that on? caller: i base it on everything that people except in like -- and like. if you look at what the republicans have said throughout history. host: when you say what people accept and like, what do you mean by that? caller: all the social programs

that are acceptable they look social programs and say it's difficult to take them back. it proves the people want these things. so it's ok for the wealthy to get more money and more bricks than the poor. the wealthy doesn't pay for the roads, the army. it's all paid for by the poor in the middle class. host: you could make the argument it's all paid by taxes. caller: that's right. it's paid by the taxes of the middle class and the poor. if you look the wealthy people, you look at percentagewise they don't pay that much tax as poor people do. we pay vast majority of our money to taxes. they don't. host: don't take this as a case study for every person who is wealthy in america, but the wall

street journal you can read the story. elon musk saying he will pay $11 billion in taxes. don't take that as a case study for everybody. let's go to logan in virginia honor disagree line. caller: i hope you're having a good day. i would have to disagree with the notion that america's a center-right country because every single time it's been put before the voters, voters tend to vote in favor of jobs, they have approval of bipartisan infrastructure bills, social programs. every time there's an actual

simple electoral issue, if you take away the culture war and social issues, people vote in favor of left-leaning policies. it's not even democrat versus republican issue, it's the democrats don't fight for working-class issues. when they are given power they don't legislate, they don't deliver and so they are always punished. host: that's logan and virginia honor disagree line. we want to get your calls in. senator manchin introduced the idea of america being a center-right country. it was yesterday during the white house press briefing the jen psaki reported president biden was in close contact with an aide who tested positive for covid.

he himself the president tested negative for covid on monday. it was also yesterday during that press briefing you can find more of that on c-span.org the press secretary talked about where things stand between the white house and senator manchin. >> i would say i think the lengthy statement yesterday outlined pretty specifically the events of the last few weeks. it was important to the president and all of us to make it clear to the american people. the status and the steps ahead -- that had been taken. i will say from the president's viewpoint and i saw him this morning he's worked with senator manchin over the course of decades. they share fundamental values, they are longtime friends. that has not changed. with most on the presidents mind is the risk of inaction and if we do not act to get this

legislation done and the components in it, not only will cost and prices go up for the american people, but also we will see a trajectory and economic growth and we've seen projections from goldman sachs and others today on that front. he is no stranger to legislative challenges and we will continue to take steps and work to get it done. host: nevada on our agree line. caller: good morning. i just wanted to say i think the country vacillates back and forth between leaning to the right and leaning to the left. we've been doing this ever since lincoln. our presidents been republican. it kept going back and forth. same with the congress.

but we need is a talking filibuster. host: with a democratic president but you currently agree america center-right? caller: i don't agree with either side. host: you called in on our agree line that's why wanted to clarify. caller: it goes back and forth. it vacillates between being hard right and then left and linen a little bit. we just need to try and work together. host: ok we will hear from byron in columbus, ohio, disagree line. caller: this is simple. on the math.

it's a centerleft country overwhelming the last 30 years. you've had -- you quoted sentiments in the country most were independents and then a little bit higher for republicans. you have to remember you came through an off year election with the sentiment. host: i was charted from january to november of this year. caller: yes you did. but my point is only about 3.3 plus million people voted in virginia. about 2.7 million people voted in new jersey. the results of those elections nowhere compares to the general

election last year of 81 million. host: the idea that america is a center-right country, you're disagreeing with that. why do you say that? caller: it's very simply centerleft because every year since 92 you've had an overwhelmingly of the general electorate and overwhelming democratic victory in the popular vote all those years. al gore be george bush by 500,000. barack obama beat john mccain 53% to 45% i think. trump and hillary clinton is gone up to 3 million and then

after hillary be trump in the popular vote by 3 million, it went up to 11 million. host: which means what exactly? caller: what it means is clearly it's a centerleft country when the largest amount of the voting public, there sentiments are registered in the general election. general elections is where we get most of our voting. host: just to show you the cnbc article from virginia's election to push back against the caller's point. the election of the governor's race according to the reports there some of the highest turnout in recent history for the commonwealth of virginia. let's go to gary in fletcher, north carolina honor disagree line. caller: this is another program and this is how people get caught up in this. most people that are watching the show today do not even

understand the details of it. let's not lie to ourselves, we just get bits and pieces of cnn and fox news. i think the program i think it's 6% to 12%. the government is going to pick up the rest. the first thing that happens is right now but sing you -- see bring your kids to the childcare and pay $20, once the government gets involved they will raise that price so say you're paying $20 at this point, you start off , you are paying 12% of the total cost. with the raise the cost you end up paying 45%. host: to the idea of the country being a center-right country which you disagree with, tell us why. caller: disagree with it.

it's just open to so much abuse. if i open a daycare center tomorrow i can have people put their kids on my list. host: we will move on. gary in indiana on our agree line. caller: good morning. ever since ronald reagan over 90% and now we are down to 25. the middle class -- everybody knows that. the problem is voting. 350 million in this country. make it easier to vote. host: you are calling in on the side america is a center-right country or not. you say you agree with that sentiment.

tell us why. caller: i thought it was agree or disagree about joe manchin. host: it's agree or disagree if america is a center-right country or not. caller: we are not. host: let me stop you there since you got your opinion out. debbie and flint, michigan disagree line. ok, hung up. let's try one more call. mclean, virginia. caller: i do agree. should've had a line that says on the fence or yes spot. -- yes but. politicians embrace greed, hate, separation. they hit us against each other. the center-right evangelical

conservative christians have turned more people away from god than satan himself. this is a part of their problem. hate thy brother, loathe the poor. and then they call themselves christians. it's a right center for hate, a division, for greed. host: you attribute that only two people were center-right. caller: they are the ones right now that are in power via the republicans or the people who are voting, they don't vote based on what's good for the country, they vote against their own self-interest and against their fellow man. the level of hatred for people and they talk about you have to have christman your life. >> you look at democratic senator joe manchin and his decision to boat against build

back better, what would you say to that? caller: joe manchin is a snake, joe manchin is a crook and he is a republican posing as a democrat. he has his pockets in the coal industry. west virginia is one of the poorest states. host: so you -- he is still a democratic member of congress. caller: there are traitors everywhere, that doesn't mean anything. it's about money. greed has no political party. it's about getting paid. whether it's his daughter getting paid on the pharmaceutical end from price gouging. host: we will leave it there. thanks for those who participated in this hour. coming up, senate majority leader chuck schumer says next year voting rights legislation will reach the floor of the senate and be voted on.

we will also talk but the attempt on voting rights legislation and what's being proposed in the senate. william roberts of the center for american progress will be joined by. later on in the program we will be joined by hannah who will talk about the biden administration's effort to replace lead in drinking water pipes throughout the country. ♪ >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. including wow. >> the world has changed. the fast reliable internet connection is something no one can live without so we are there for our customers with the speed, reliability, value and choice. it all starts with great internet. >> wow supports c-span as a public service.

along with other television providers. even you a front row seat to democracy. >> sunday night, catholic theologian, author, and distinguished fellow at the ethic public policy center talks about the people he profiles in his new book. >> henri hyde, scoop jackson, and other portraits here, lindsay boggs, longtime member of congress, these were people who went into public service to get things done. some of them were sparkling speakers. some of them were norwegians like scoop jackson. some of them were charmers like lindsay boggs, but they were all people who wanted to achieve things, not so much for

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he is the managing director there. john fund, a columnist at national review. thanks for joining us. as of this morning, senator schumer says that next year in the senate, there will be an attempt to pass voting rights legislation, two specific pieces of legislation. i want to ask you to get your sense of what is going on on the state level when it comes to changing voting laws and to the degree that the federal government should be involved with that. mr. roberts, you go first. guest: thank you so much for having me for this important conversation. what we are seeing at the state level over this past year is that more than 400 bills have been introduced across 49 states and 17 states have been enacted to restrict american access to the ballot box, a really dangerous trend that we are

seeing that is connected with the big lie around the 2020 election. a lot of these state laws are pernicious. in georgia, we have seen provisions that outlaw even giving supplies, water, and snacks to folks who are standing in long voting lines. in texas, we have the moves to remove ballot drop boxes, which we know were well utilized in the 2020 election. what we are seeing across the state level is a move against the voting rights of ordinary americans and that is why it is critical for congress to step in to provide some uniform national standards. host: mr. fund, same question. guest: in march of 2020 when the pandemic hit, there was a fear that people would not be able to vote in person. that turned out to be largely

unfounded, but we had a lot of emergency decrees issued by health authorities and governors, almost never by legislators, which are supposed to write the laws. and these temporary measures such as dramatically expanding mail-in voting beyond anything that is ever been done, putting in drop boxes selectively in some counties. various other provisions were designed as temporary. almost everything that mr. roberts mentions is basically returning us back to the time in march 2020 when these provisions were not in place. in texas, the drop boxes he mentioned are almost exclusively in harris county, which is houston. the state has decided that if you are going to have drop boxes, they should be available statewide. counties should not be able to decide on their own that they can do that. it just simply says drop boxes are going to have uniform methods. as for georgia, the snacks and the water being distributed, that only prevents partisan

groups from distributing that. there is nothing that prevents people from donating water or snacks to government officials at the polling places and having them distribute it. you do not want to exchange gifts for votes in any way, shape, or form. a lot of these complaints are simply unfounded. host: mr. fund, there are two specific pieces of legislation being considered or will be considered according to senator schumer. the freedom to vote act and we will show people elements of that as well as the john lewis voting rights act. what do think about that religio -- that legislation? guest: i find it astonishing that after a year of absolute no progress in getting this passed, the sponsors do not want to compromise. they do not want to have a genuine compromise. in 2000, we had the bush versus gore recount problem in florida. we actually came together.

we had a bipartisan solution. there was a democratic senate, an evenly divided house, and the republican president. we managed to accomplish something. we passed a bipartisan piece of legislation and the democratic sponsor said the goal was to make it hard to cheat and easy to vote. we can do both at the same time. we are americans. unfortunately, that kind of bipartisanship has been swept away by a wave of polarization and both sides have some blame. there have been unfounded claims about what happened in the 2020 election. do not believe everything you read on the internet. there has been a denial that there any problems in our voting systems in many states that can create confusion and undermine confidence and integrity of elections. after a year of trench warfare that has been a complete stalemate, the sponsors of the john lewis bill should start negotiating people because you

cannot, as joe manchin said when he said he was not going to break the filibuster, you cannot have massive federal takeover of all 50 state election laws without some kind of bipartisanship. people will not accept it as genuine. host: mr. roberts, same question. the legislation that is being considered, what it would do. guest: certainly. we have to set some baseline facts. the freedom to vote act, which is the large democracy bill under consideration along with the john lewis voting rights advancement act in the senate would set baseline national standards to the point that mr. fund is making. baseline standards not just to protect people's right to vote, but also on the point of election administration, this bill is not something that was put together in a back room, but was done in cooperation with election officials in a bipartisan fashion, in a

nonpartisan fashion. this is a bill that would prevent election sabotage, which is something we are seeing across the country in many state legislatures to change their rules and take decisions away from who can declare the winner of an election from the nonpartisan state elections officials to partisan actors or even in some states, there are legislative takeovers. we are talking about something that would halt gerrymandering, which is a problem that i know lots of people want to see solved. the point i would make, you mentioned, mr. fund, the inability to reach across the aisle and negotiate. the freedom to vote act is a negotiated package. s one is not the bill under consideration anymore.

the freedom to vote act was based on a framework that senator manchin put out where he said to his colleagues, let me find a way to find bipartisan consensus, which he has been trying to find, let me find a way to elevate provisions that i think could get support across the senate. and that is what the freedom to vote act is. it is not just some partisan wish list. it is a collection of baseline approach to democracy reform that should be supported across the aisle. unfortunately, try as they might all year, despite trying and asking as senator warnock mentioned last week, asking the senate minority which provisions they would like to negotiate on, they have heard nothing back. i just think it is a false equivalency to say that we have to continue to wait for some bipartisan action that is not coming when in fact, it is

unfortunate that it is only the senate majority, democrats that would like to move forward on rolling back these pernicious attacks on voting that we see at the state level. i wish that some republicans would come along on the freedom to vote act. i wish that republicans would have answered joe manchin's call to negotiate on the bill that they have. the john lewis voting rights advancement act, we did see senator murkowski joined democrats in being willing to move forward with the debate. this should not be a partisan issue. voting rights did not used to be partisan. we should be able to find a way forward. host: callers, you can start calling. you can text at the (202) 748-8003. mr. fund, respond. >> mr. roberts, i'm completely confused by everything you just said. it does not make sense. the most respected secretary is gardner of new hampshire. he is a democrat. he testified that the worst possible thing we could do to

pass voting legislation is to pass as one, hr one, or the john lewis act. he testified in congress to that. he said it would be a complete federal takeover of the states and lower voter turnout because it would open states to a range of federal mandates that would be one-size-fits-all. tim weinman, who is president biden's appointee to cybersecurity for voting, the former secretary state of washington, president biden appointed her to that position. she opposed hr one. she said it would be an unwarranted takeover of election laws. namely -- name me one republican secretary of state who is supporting this. democratic officials who recognize such as senator manchin who may be trying to reach a compromise, but they have not found an agreement. there is no compromise. where in the world is this bipartisan outcry that this

should be passed? this is a one party, one-size-fits-all federal takeover of elections and it carries with it an enormous amount of confusion and cost for states, which they do not want to bear and they will tell you privately that this is a bad idea even though their party would prevent them from speaking out publicly. host: mr. roberts, a response. >> mr. fund will know that a majority of americans support provisions under this bill, support the move to protect and enshrine voting rights at the state level. again, senator manchin and senate democrats have been working toward compromise on these provisions. the freedom to vote act is the bill that is under consideration and that is one. the freedom to vote act is a compromise provision. the john lewis voting rights act is a compromise physician.

it has been worked on for years. host: let him finish. mr. roberts: when senator murkowski after a year of trying to approach republicans support the reauthorization of the voting rights act on something that used to be bipartisan, compelling nonpartisan, the last reauthorization was a unanimous senate vote. but trying for a year and only having gotten one senator, senator murkowski show her cards and say that she was willing to work with democrats on the reauthorization of the voting rights act, especially after the disaster's in shelby county from the supreme court -- the disastrous decision in shelby county from the supreme court, with respect to the list you share, americans are not waiting to check off a list of

individual names of election officials again. i could run you down a list, certainly. we can trade notes. elections officials and state officials would like to see those provisions past -- passed and of officials who are concerned about the election sabotage provisions that are going through in various states. it is disingenuous to say congress has no role and that there is no one asking for these reforms. americans are clamoring for it. our democracy is at a very precarious point and we need it. host: james, rochester, michigan. democrats line. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. just two comments. about like to get the perspective from your guests. mr. fund, you were talking about compromise. i find that difficult when both sides cannot agree on a basic

set of facts. it seems like voting really has been a contest of will between the two parties. our country was built on denying the vote or strengthening the vote for only certain segment. we take a look at white landowners through the beginning of this country and then you have women's suffrage in the 1920's and then it is not 100 years until after the emancipation proclamation that blacks have the civil rights act. again, we continue to have this competition between the two parties. i would like to get your take on that. host: james, thank you. mr. fund, go ahead. mr. fund: our history includes a very unfortunate depriving of voting rights for many parts of the country for many decades. we fought a civil rights struggle in the 1960's. we need to preserve and extend those gains. we have a tradition as the

former supreme court justice who was the most liberal member of the supreme court, he said we have a long unfortunate history of voter fraud and voter manipulation in this country. what i said originally about the help america vote act was the sponsors of that was democrats and senate republicans agreed we can make it hard to cheat and easy to vote and that should be our goal. the problem is this, everyone in your audience has the right not to be blocked from the polls, not to have artificial areas like poll taxes or people preventing them from voting. they also have the same right to not have their vote canceled out by someone who should not be voting, someone who is a noncitizen, someone who was just released from prison and not eligible to vote, someone who has moved out of state, someone who has died. i do not believe we should have representation without restoration.

there are documented examples. just this week in florida, people being in data for voter fraud. we can do both. a real compromise. i still have not heard the name of a single person who has compromised in the john lewis act and the freedom to vote act. let's agree that we can make it easy to vote and hard to cheat and that would be a real compromise. host: mr. roberts? mr. roberts: i appreciate the response and certainly, all of this is connected on a continuum. mr. fund mentioned the fight and the gains in the civil rights act. we also fought a civil war connected to leaving out a whole swath of our population from being part of that fabric. i would say two things. one, voting struggles should not be partisan. the reauthorization of the voting rights act was previously

bipartisan. up until the reauthorization, we had disastrous decisions from the supreme court, who essentially pulled the wool over their own eyes to say that we no longer needed the protections of the voting rights act, which was one of the fruits of that long and hard struggle of the civil rights act that you mentioned. that is the reason why we need the john lewis voting rights act. john lewis himself, hero of the civil rights movement, told us in his parting thoughts before he passed away that democracy is an act. as your caller mentioned, there is going to be some struggle because we are talking about voting as a fundamental right of every american, but also the implications of that are what party wins or loses and controls the livers of government -- the

levers of government. to the point that mr. fund made on the freedom to vote act, the compromise provision that senator manchin himself was one of the key architects of, he would tell you who he negotiated with and the reason when the provisions of that proposal down from s one was to try to get some across the aisle hopefully bipartisan support, but also narrow and taylor -- tailor what some of these realistic changes were. the record is clear on how that was negotiated. one of the key provisions is this notion of voter verification. mr. fund brought up the point of voter fraud, which we know despite being used as the boogie

man in arguments and discussions about democracy, voter fraud statistically does not happen in a way that would impact elections. we know the last president -- host: we just want to get as many calls in. you can continue your thought we come back. let's hear from mark in maryland, republican line. caller: good morning. mr. roberts, i find it ironic that your entire argument seems to be based on rewritten history. when i say rewritten history, you mentioned the civil rights era of the 1960's and what you do not mention is that more republicans actually supported the voting rights act than democrats did. you forget that poll taxes and things like that were written and passed entirely by the democratic party. there was not a simple republican -- single republican that ever voted for that stuff. you bring up slavery as being a

black eye on america. it is actually a black eye on the democratic party that they tried to make the american public forget about. they forget that the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendment to the constitution were supported by more republicans than democrats. the democrats founded the klan, which actively tried to keep black americans from voting. you guys have rewritten the history of the whole country to insinuate that the republicans are the racist party or that they have been the ones trying to stop black americans from voting and it is simply not true. host: that is marked in maryland. mr. roberts? mr. roberts: i appreciate your comments. i am a fellow marylander. i have not forgotten history. it is interesting in these discussions which are necessary to have about the history and how we have gotten here, but it is interesting that lots of

people like to harken back to the republican and democratic parties of old. what i am talking about is a republican minority in the senate where one senator, after a year of negotiations, asking, pleading, decided to support the john lewis voting rights act and there were no republican senators, despite senator manchin being on a mission to find republican senators to join he and his caucus on this voting rights legislation, where no republican senators not only joined the bill, but have not even put forward serious efforts to indicate what they would like to see. to me, that says -- and this is me reading, that says that there are no republican senators willing to come out and support the commonsense measures in the freedom to vote act and there have been no republican senators

willing to come out and deprive some of the election sabotage and the voter suppression that we are seeing at the state level. that is because perhaps that those political actors have decided that it is better for them in a tactical manner to restrict the rights of people to join the polls. i would just note in the last election, we started this conversation talking about drop boxes and mail-in voting. in the last election, president trump did what he often does which is to say the quiet part out loud. he indicated why he did not want more people voting by mail. he indicated why he decided that drop boxes were pernicious, because there was a fear that more people would come out and vote. historically, things like drop boxes to talk about the texas point, mr. fund, drop boxes have been used in a bipartisan fashion by states like florida.

i'm sorry, historically mail-in voting, not drop boxes. republicans utilize mail-in voting even more. this did not become a artisan issue until the former president made it one in this last election. host: mr. fund? mr. fund: there is a world of difference to having -- between having 10% and 15% of people vote by mail and suddenly having that changed to 40% and 50% vote by mail. we had mass confusion this last election that affected both parties. cbs decided to have an experiment to test how well the postal service delivers ballots. they created an envelope the size of a ballot, the weight of a ballot, they put postclassic -- they put first half -- first-class postage on it. they sent out 100 ballots. after a week, only 37 had shown up. after a few weeks, only 97 had

shown up. do we really want to depend on the united states postal service, which just learned -- lowered its standards of delivery to add an extra day of delivery? do we want to depend are democracy's outcome on the u.s. postal service? i don't think so. there is never a case where voter fraud changes an election. i remind you, mr. roberts, that in 2018 there was a congressional district in north carolina decided by less than 900 votes. the federal court came in and ruled that a consultant who was working for a republican candidate had altered a whole bunch of mail-in ballots and he threw the election out. he threw the election out because he said the election was tainted. in compton, california last september we had a case in which six people, including a member of the city council of compton, california were indicted and convicted of voter fraud with

mail-in ballots. the election they were voting in was decided by one vote. please do not tell me that voter fraud does not affect the outcome of some elections. i just gave you two recent examples. host: both of our guests with us on this conversation. william j. roberts from the center for american progress. john fund from the national review is a columnist. this is michael, miami, florida. independent line. caller: how are you doing? i just have one question on these bills being submitted. is there any provision to require a fingerprint to vote and as far as fraud is concerned, you would not know -- fraud only works if it is not discovered. your records are how many frauds you have caught. it does not mean it did not go on. you just did not catch it. do not put that into the argument. that is stupid. there you go.

put fingerprints on just like you do at any bank and you get rid of your fraud. host: thank you. mr. fund, go first. mr. fund: the heritage foundation, you can go to their website. they have a database of over 1500 recent cases of people who are convicted and have actually been proven to have committed voter fraud. this happens at all 50 states. some states, less than others. some states we know are notorious for voter fraud. i give you chicago and philadelphia and places along the texas border. what we have is a situation in which people either believe the spin they are hearing from folks like mr. roberts or they believe their own common sense. it makes common sense that there is more fraud than we detect for the following reason. there are lots of insider trading in the stock market. we know that. we have a small securities and

exchange commission that tries to catch some people. make examples of them and discipline them to vent others from doing that. it is that mean they catch all of the. it means we have determined -- we have to terrence -- detteren ts. it is not a priority, it has become complete racialized. any time anyone accuses anyone of being -- committing voter fraud, they are labeled as a racist. prosecutors do not make this a priority. when we look for it, we find it. whether it is the congressional investigation a few years ago, they found over 1000 noncitizens had voted in an election that had been decided by only 924 votes. that election was not overturned, the fraud was proven. if you look for something, you are probably going to find it. we do not look for it as much as we should. host: mr. roberts?

mr. roberts: a couple of points. on looking for it and finding it, we know in the last election at the former president's insistence, his attorney general bill barr did what they call a thorough review and a look for voter fraud to meet the president's claims of a stolen election. they did not find it. they did not find the type of widespread issues that mr. fund and others are talking about that would have changed the course of the presidential election. if bill barr could not find it, i am not sure what mr. fund is talking about. let me finish. thank you so much. on the notion of racialized and voter fraud, i have not done that here. but it is interesting that in the last election, the city is targeted by the former president to say that their ballots were

invalid for all manner of reasons included detroit and philadelphia and mr. fund mentioned my hometown. i wonder why it is that when seeking to invalidate votes in the last election, the former president decided to go after majority black and brown cities and voters. i will leave that there. the point that the caller made, and i appreciate him making it, on election security provisions, again i point you back to the freedom to vote act, the provision that senator manchin and others did negotiate that includes in it strong voter verification provisions outlining ways that we can make sure that the people who are voting are who they say they are and that expands the ways in which people could be allowed to have that sort of identification

showing that they are who they say they are. again, part of the debate around voter id laws was not just the verifications provision, but was the fact that lawmakers knew that the narrow scope of it was that they were trying to accept left out people. you put up a voter id law and estate, but say that student ids cannot be valid. you are trying to excuse students and leave out students from voting. the well-known arguments around driver's licenses and the fact that large swaths of communities, particularly poor white and black that do not have access to state ids -- the freedom to vote act, i urge everyone to read it. take a look at the provisions that senator manchin negotiated because that expands the window of what is acceptable for voter verification. that takes the issues that mr.

fund is talking about off the table. host: mr. fund, a quick response. mr. fund: the former confidant of martin luther king jr. said if you ask people for voter id, if you get people voter id, it improves their life. you cannot cash a check, you cannot travel, you cannot apply for medicare unless you have an idea. let's get people an idea. groups like mr. roberts have spent millions of dollars fighting voter id laws. i have proposed many times in speeches to this group and others that this is a very simple solution. let's combine left-wing charities and right-wing charities and set up money so we can find everyone in this country, i do not think it is that many people, who lack any kind of an idea, and get them an id rather than fight in court and waste money on lawyers. let's get people an idea. it will help them enter the mainstream of american life. that is a position that is backed by bill clinton my jimmy

carter, and martin luther king. they all came together and said we should have a federal card, social security card with a photo on it that can be used as voter id. the obama administration and the attorney general rejected that. my advice to mr. roberts is this, go to your board and say let's stop fighting voter id in court. let's put some money and make sure that everyone has an id and get the job done. host: let's go to brenda in washington state, democrats line. caller: good morning. i want to speak to all mail-in voting. i want to say that is very rich of mr. fund to talk about how the post office does not work when one party wants to sabotage it. i come from an all mail state. i love it. we get a pamphlet in the mail.

it shows all the candidates. to get to state their mission on what they want to accomplish. they state their education and their experience. every initiative, what the initiative will cost if there is money involved. the pros, the cons. we then get our ballot. we get to review with our camera, we do any research we want, we get to vote. i can remember when i used to go to the polling booth where i would think, i did not research this or i forgot about this initiative or i really did not research this candidate and i know that there are people out there that are like that. that is the beauty. we get to go online and see how we voted. mail-in voting works. it is very good. and i am tired of the war on the mail-in vote. thank you. host: that is brenda in washington state. mr. fund, go ahead. mr. fund: there is a world of

difference between having 10% to 20% of people vote by mail because they have a good reason and basically throwing the election over to all mail ballots. for one reason. we have campaigns for a reason. we have election day for a reason. everything builds to a crescendo where we will make a collective judgment on election day and some states with mail-in voting, people are voting four weeks in advance. that means before the debates are finished. why do we have campaigns then? should we have a campaigns address this, have the debate, and then -- a much better approach would be early voting where you allow people for 10 days before the election to go into an government office and vote early and that means they can listen to the whole debate of the campaign. they can do it without having to risk the postal service. the caller did not disagree that the postal service doesn't offer job. she just made a partisan point. the post office does an awful job of delivering the mail. let's have early voting marino the ballot is delivered.

-- let's have early voting where we know the ballot is delivered. all range of problems of intimidation because a mail-in vote is not a secret ballot. that is the point that people have to realize. if you cast a mail-in vote, it is no longer secret. host: mr. roberts? mr. roberts: i appreciate the caller bringing this point up. mr. fund, i agree with you on early voting. it is one of the reasons that the freedom to vote act would help to make sure that states can expand early voting and would help to roll back some of these subversion and sabotage provisions we have seen in place in the states, texas and others, that are curtailed -- that have curtailed early voting. in georgia, early voting has been curtailed dramatically. going after and reducing an activity that in the black and brown religious communities, you will notice souls to the polls

where you can go after church and vote on the weekend. i hope those folks are listening to you. i agree with you on early voting. where i disagree with you is about the access to mail-in voting. nowhere in the freedom to vote act doesn't mandate -- does it mandate nationwide mail-in voting. it provides provisions to make it easier for folks to mail in their ballot. why wouldn't we want it to be easier for people to vote? you mentioned elections needing to build to the crescendo of election day. that is a great thought, however for lots of people in this country for home election day is a workday that they cannot get to the polls early and then get to their job or get to the polls late after their job, if you do not have the availability to avail yourself of early voting, mailing your ballot is a completely legitimate and american way to vote and i think

it is interesting to decide what is and is not an acceptable form of an american to be able to express their preference for whom they would like to vote for. the reason that you saw mail-in voting take off during the pandemic was for public health and safety. but two, because of ease. in maryland, our general assembly has just passed provisions to make it permanently easier for us to mail our ballots in if we would like. we saw participation jump. isn't that a good thing? the united states used to have pitiful numbers when it came to voting versus our eligible vote population. we saw a spike in the last election. isn't it good that more people are participating? i guess not, unless they are participating in ways that are prescribed. that is that notion that voter

id and voter verification, i urge mr. fund to read what is in the freedom to vote act that senator manchin negotiated because there is, to the previous callers point, there is lots of voter verification that will make it safer for people to vote, more accessible for people to vote, and we can verify that folks are voting. to the point on the postal service, it is not a partisan point that the last caller made. it is a fact that postmaster dejoy who president trump put in office, has slowed down the mail. that was part of the strategy around the last election. you do not have to take my word for it. google what president trump said about wanting to slow down mail-in ballots in the last election. those are facts. host: a viewer from twitter asked his question, "what voting rights not covered by the 1965 law would make voting more

equitable? " mr. roberts: can you repeat the question? host: what voting rights not covered by the 1955 law would make voting more equitable? mr. roberts: one of the great things about the john lewis bill is that it tries to answer the supreme court's bad decision in shelby county which really gutted section five with the voting rights act, the preclearance provisions, which said united states who had a history of voter suppression going back to those bad old days needed to clear certain election reforms through the department of justice. the john lewis voting rights act not only repairs that come up but also provides other provisions that make it easier for folks to be able to access the ballot. what we should be talking about is how to make voting more accessible.

my colleagues from the center for american progress did a great report earlier this year about voter accessibility, both for persons with disabilities and also other in general about how to make the ballot box and the franchise more accessible. i would love to be having a conversation with mr. fund and others across the aisle about how we work together to expand the franchise, to reduce the barriers to entry, to make it so that people can participate in our democratic process and not about what boxes people need to fit in to participate. host: mr. fund, same question. mr. fund: some states vote on saturday. louisiana being one. i would be perfectly fine with states who wanted to move to a weekend so it would not be a workday. you have to watch what people do, not just what they say. mr. roberts is full of criticism about georgia and texas and the

laws they passed recently. they -- if we provide more early voting, then new york and delaware, if joe biden had really cared about voting rights all these years, he basically dominates delaware politics. he could have gone to the legislature in delaware still has extremely restrictive voting laws. let's watch what people do, not just what they say. as for the supreme court messing with the voting rights act, look, the statistics and the states that were named in the voting rights act as to being bad actors and had to be watched over by the justice department had not been changed in 60 years. 60 years. the supreme court finally had the decision and said if you do not change the formula, we are going to basically have to revise them for you because this is completely unfair. states have changed in 60 years. congress ignored them and them.

host: this prompted our discussion today as far as bringing voting rights legislation into the senate next year to be voted on. the possibility of changing rules to do that. i know it deals with more senate procedure, but as far as the bill passing that way, mr. fund, what you think about that as far as getting that legislation passed? mr. fund: there is a zero chance which is why this believe that there has been a compromise or negotiation that would bring republicans along or even democrats is not happening. senator sinema has said she will not support the change in the rules to pass this monstrosity of a bill. senator manchin will not do that.

senator manchin has not signed off on every part of the compromise that supposedly he has agreed to. he still has reservations because on the voter verification, he points out that you can still have an affidavit. a voter can sign an affidavit and that is enough to vote. a voter can still bring a utility bill. west virginia's own secretary of state opposes this compromise because he says it would make a mockery of the voter integrity laws. give me a break. this is not going to happen. senator sinema and senator manchin are not changing their minds. we only have a few more months before reelection. let's have a genuine compromise like in 2002 after the bush v gore florida recount in which we tried to do two things at the same time. we are americans. we can walk and chew gum at the same time. we can make it easier to vote. maybe we should encourage states to vote on saturday. let's also make it hard to cheat because there is cheating out there and i have given you

examples and i have hundreds more i can present. host: mr. roberts, the idea of changing senate rules to get these bills passed? mr. roberts: we all know what is happening in the senate right now, the discussion around trying to figure out how to get these bills through. the most important thing is that the senate do its job and address what the american people want to see and that is voting rights reform that pushes back against these pernicious laws going on at the state level. i think that there are enough members of the senate, including the ones that are engaging forthrightly in this conversation about how to not let an arcane senate rule which is a remnant of the jim crow era being used to block many civil rights legislation, but not let those rules stand in the way of democracy for millions of people around our nation. i think that those discussions are actually happening in earnest and the reason is,

again, because unfortunately, try as they might, there have been no republicans willing to come to the table with democrats to put forward any realistic proposal around voting rights reform or to even speak up about some of these terrible things we are seeing at the state level. most americans, while we in washington like to talk about the rules reform issue, most americans are not worried about senate rule. they are worried about the senate doing its job to protect voting rights. mr. fund, i can meet you on saturday and sunday voting. we should be talking more about how to pass the freedom to vote act, which has provisions that allows states to do some of those creative things for sure. mr. fund: if you can meet me on saturday voting, how about meeting me on a bill that jimmy carter, martin luther king jr.

support, which is a freedom card. we put a photo on the social security card and that can be used as a voter id nationwide. the obama administration and al sharpton nixed that. will you support that freedom card? mr. roberts: i have heard you talk about the freedom card before. what i would say is you should take a look at the provisions of the freedom to vote act. mr. fund: [laughter] mr. roberts: using utility bills as a form of verification, those are things that went in the bill because senator manchin helped negotiate it. to expand the ways that people can allow themselves to be verified and vote. i would look up the comments about what the -- i did not look at the comments about what the secretary of the west virginia state said. as you mentioned, to take this issue off the table and allow people to vote. host: richard in north carolina,

thanks for waiting. independent line. caller: slavery was accepted all over the world at the time. the only way to acquire wealth for capitalism was through plundering and slavery. the second thing is the allegations of the last election are so far-fetched, how come they will not hand over the routers? the american people on those routers. thank you. host: that is richard in north carolina. joanna in germantown, maryland. democrats line. caller: i rarely ever called in but i have to call on this issue. mr. fund, you are very good at racist dogma through your entire rhetoric in this segment. chicago, philadelphia, the texas southern border, let me go on to the points i want to make.

first of all, utah, solidly republican, is all male and balance -- all mail-in ballots. you talked about here is county. -- harris county. the republicans want one dropbox for the entire county. why? because it has the largest majority black population and people of color. the next point, georgia. a whole group of white legislators and the governor in secret did what they could to change the laws, all of them white, all of them male, and when a black legislator wanted to come into the room to witness what was going on, they had her arrested. this is just bogus -- i cannot

say the word. host: that is joanna in maryland. mr. fund, go ahead. mr. fund: thank you for referring to me as someone who practices racist dog whistles. i am pleased to hear that. i am pleased to report that there were black members of the georgia legislation that voted for the georgia bill. you might not be aware of that. i am pleased to note that in every poll we have ever taken, whether it is hispanic or asian or african-american voters, they all support voter id laws. they believe voter fraud is a very serious threat. in some polls, a higher percentage of minority voters believe voter fraud is the problem because it happens sometimes in communities where they live in. when you reference chicago antennal -- chicago and philadelphia, that is where the hotspots are. let me give you something from the democratic district attorney of stark county, texas.

he said the abuse of elderly voters is so pervasive, "the time has come to consider an alternative to mail-in voting and the vote cannot be hijacked by vote fraudsters." i can give you a list of dozens of minority leaders in these communities who believe that they want to reform their system from written -- from within. they want to reform the government of chicago and philadelphia. the local establishment will do anything to crush the reformers, including and up to voter fraud and this is documented over the decades. if you want specific documentation, you can go to the heritage foundation website, you can go to my book. i will be happy to send it to you if you want to leave three mill address with c-span. it is unfortunate that you want to turn this into a partisan issue because i actually want to compromise like the one we had in 2002 where a democratic senator and a republican

president agreed we could make it hard to cheat and easy to vote at the same time. we did it once. we should be able to do it again. mr. roberts: i appreciate joanna's comments and as a fellow marylander, to the point, mr. fund continues to come back to messaging points that have been utilized for a few years now as it relates to voter id laws. again, i ask people to take a look at what is in the freedom to vote act around voter verification because that is an issue that is addressed and should be addressed in a fashion that is palatable to republicans to be able to join this bill, if that is the only concern. they should take a look and address it. to the point that the previous caller made about the routers, i

think that was in reference to one of the election audits may be in arizona or somewhere else, that have been widely seen as sham audits by folks across political spectrums, folks in the press. i would just take a look at some of these audits to the point that mr. fund made earlier in our conversation about if you look for it, you will find it. lots of people looking for things in arizona, texas, pennsylvania, and finding nothing and that is because all of these activities are based on a big lie that the former president and his allies trotted out over the last election that led up to the january 6 insurrection, the violent attack on our capital as congress was trying to do their constitutional duty to certify the electoral results. this is all based on conjecture

by a party and a political official who was trying to politicize voting and trying to stop people from voting to win an election. at the most basic level, we are talking about what the senate should be taking a look at and listening to, the senate should understand to the point that joanna made about what is happening in these states around the nation. if you do not live in one of those states, take a look at what some of the voters sabotage provisions, -- lots of work around this and lots of documentation. others have as well, to take a look at just what these state laws are and how pernicious they are and the ways that the freedom to vote act directly addresses it. this is not some boondoggle power grab.

this is directly related to what we are seeing on the ground and the fact that we should be protecting and expanding that most fundamental right of what it means to be an american, the right to vote and it is simply that. host: we have a few more minutes with both of you. this is monroe in maryland. independent line. hello. caller: i know my time is limited so i will be straight to the point. to the lady in washington state, almost every single -- i want every single caller to recognize that there is a website by the legal women voters and you can pull up every single ballot in your state and read everything and it does talk about the pros and cons. there is a paperless way of getting quality information about a ballot for your state. that is one. part two. we have covid. covid pushed the digitization of

our entire lives faster than what people were comfortable with, but we adjusted, whether it be ordering your food and groceries or shopping online or working from home. we can take that same thing. it is in our hands. everybody has a cell phone. we do transactions, paypal, venmo, bank transfers, and we can take all of what we have and develop an app and vote mobile using block chain. the benefit of block chain, it cannot be hacked and everybody gets a receipt. i would love to hear your thoughts on that. host: thanks for the last point. what about this idea of changing the way we vote so fundamentally? mr. roberts? mr. roberts: again, the conversation i would like to be having is how we in a bipartisan fashion can work on that, work on expanding the ways that people are able to vote and

keeping up with technologies with the point made from the caller which is spot on, that covid and life has happened while our democracy has developed. we have to respond to those changes. one of the things we need to be congress to be doing is keeping up with the changes of life and how we can augment what was thought of hundreds of years ago to work for today's times. this notion of mail voting as being something that people can come to the table to discuss, i shudder to think how we will be able to think through how we talk about participation in our democratic franchise for the next 100 years. it is not like mail voting is some brand-new technological thing and we are still stuck in this debate. i would like to be talking about what voting in the future could look like now as we keep up with technology. unfortunately, we are still stuck in fighting about

something as simple as allowing people to put their votes in the mail. host: mr. fund? mr. fund: the discussion until now has been voting through the internet. that is easily hacked and we do not want to go that route. there have been all kinds of computer specialists who warn against that. i'm happy to look at and research the block chain voting. several years down the road, i think we can perfect that. that is one of the things that kim weinman, president biden's appointee, is looking at. i would remind everyone that kim weinman, the former secretary of state for washington, which is an all mail-in voting state, was completely opposed and is completely opposed to these bills in congress, the freedom to vote act, all of them. she opposed him and she is president biden's nominee to run the crypto security of the united states. host: both of these dumb and joining us for this discussion

-- both of these gentlemen joining us for this discussion. john fund and william roberts. to both of you gentlemen, thanks for joining us. happy holidays to both of you. coming up later, we will talk with e&e news reporter hannah northey. she will talk about the biden administration's efforts to replace lead water pipes across the country. you can comment on the segments you have seen and any public policy that interests you. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. we will take those calls when "washington journal" continues. >> c-span is your unfiltered

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next year marks the 200th anniversary of the birth of the landscape architect most famous for his work on new york city's central park. coverage of a conference that looks at his legacy including his designs for college campuses such as stanford. watch american history tv saturday on c-span two and find the full schedule on your program guide or watch any time at c-span.org/history. >> washington unfiltered. c-span in your pocket. download c-span now today. washington journal continues. host: if you want to participate in an open forum, you want to text us it is (202) 748-8003. you can also post on our social media avenues on facebook

.com/c-span and our twitter feed is at c-span wj. a conversation with senate majority leader chuck schumer talks about those potential changes in senate rules to pass things like voting legislation. >> joe manchin has said he doesn't want to abolish the filibuster. there are other ways to change the rules where we could still only need 50 votes to pass. there are lots of ways to do it. a mentor of joe manchin changed the rules i think nine times because he said when circumstances change the rules have to change. we can propose a talking filibuster. then we close it with 50 votes. we could say we guarantee that

there would be a whole number of republican amendments allowed on the floor but then we close the debate with 50 votes. there are various rules changes not abolishing the filibuster that would allow us to get to our goal. host: gwen in birmingham, alabama. democrat line. your first this morning. caller: good morning. it is a shame in 2021 that we are discussing voting rights. black people died for the road to vote. i'm sick of this. i'm so sorry. you can call this racist or whatever you want to call it. white people, you have never had

to fight to your right to vote. you were born with the right to vote. like people had to fight. soap bubbles on a bar of soap. jelly beans a jar. people died for this. i'm sick and tired of having to still fight for the right to vote. one more thing i want to say. it's a bunch of malarkey also. what's wrong with what people wanting to know about black people? we had to learn about george washington, the mayflower, everything about white america we had to learn in school. host: we will leave it there in alabama. let's go to the republican line. caller: i think there should be

certain penalties. for every bullet you cast illegally, you should get four years in prison. also why can't we make it a holiday? why not everybody with an id gets off work and they go vote. also i think that cable should be free for two months for people in disadvantage neighborhood. right before the election. because they are not being informed on how to vote. host: independent line. caller: he did a really good job explaining himself. now i am an african-american. i believe the other brother did a very poor job of explaining our situation like the democrats right now. there are a lot of points made that are truly agree with.

i don't necessarily agree with the senator from west virginia because we won the election. and when the republicans when their election, they do what they want to do. it is a democracy. that's life. but i really believe the democrats -- explaining his position very well. he is not a racist. he did a very good job explaining his position. but that's my message to the world. we are losing this battle because our messaging is all the way -- up. host: you are going to have to refrain from that. watch the language if you would. nathan in maine. democrat line. caller: good morning. i just think that what we just

watched was really exposed. what we really need to understand is that this country is being ripped apart by social media and the individual newsfeed. we've taken our information to the nth degree without any kind of ability to fact check it in real time. because everything opposes everything. and it is really dividing this country and i think we really need to take a good hard look at things like facebook and how foreign powers might be using that to divide this country in such a severe way that we end up in a civil war. i live up here in the northeast. we are pretty mellow people. i'm looking at the south and the midwest and it's scaring the heck out of me. these people are very

militarized by a lot of this strife about voting rights and whose voting and how they are voting and if anybody's voting the right way. we've forgotten what it is to be american. we really have. host: at the new york times and others reporting the president is set to make a speech later today where he proposed efforts to further fight omicron. that speech by the president will be at 2:30 this afternoon. you can watch the remarks on c-span. you can also follow along on our c-span now app. anthony is in miller place new york. democrat line. caller: if you could possibly formulate what i'm about to say to you into a question. when i was 32 years old i had

taken my girlfriend who hadn't voted ever at that time to vote with me to the pole place and i was trying to encourage her to do so and acclimate her to it. so we went behind the curtain. this is back with the old livers and the switches. the poll worker said you can't have anybody back there. it's integral to the process that only one person one vote. i tried to explain to her. i was just trying to show her how to do it. there needs to be a chain of custody. voting needs to be saved. there is no longer any confidence that our votes are valid. if somebody offered me $20 for bubblegum canadian money.

hard money, soft money, dark money. it's basically bribery. we have a situation now where money is buying access to the electorate. so the electorate is beholden to the money interest. therefore the poor working analog people are being over slaughtered by the digital age. so we are a simple people of organic origins that are now being thrust into this future of technological ability at the hands of political controlling interests. host: let's hear from rick. republican line. caller: thanks for the discussion today. one thing that has been missed is our election rules don't apply just to federal elections.

the same ballot is used to collect local issues. i live in a small town in ohio and the margin of error for positions like school board members, local officials is quite frequently in the matter of a handful over a dozen. very small quantities. the important thing is to preserve the integrity of elections. not just look at it as to whether or not we could sway an entire state. so if we would examine this issue has how it affects us the most on a daily basis. i think that would be worthy of discussion. host: rick in frederick's town calling in on the republican line. the washington times reporting on efforts by the pentagon on policies to counter extremism and units.

among the definitions of extremist activity -- that deprive others of their constitutional right advocating or supporting the overthrow of the government and advocating discrimination based on race, color, religion or other factors. the definitions of active participation focus on specific actions toward the broader aims. sharing literature or symbols known to be associated with extremist groups. officials said they went through great lengths to secure free-speech rights. we will hear from malcolm. >> i'm in my mid-50's and it

would be beautiful to see the united states become a true democracy. a constitutional amendment to everyone who has the right to vote. to have open access international holiday. we really need to move toward more access to voting and digital voting. host: some new minimum wage levels will be set. localities will raise the minimum wage floor on january 1. base hourly play will come from $11 to $12 in illinois, from $9.50 in virginia. $11.50 in new mexico.

from wisconsin, this is john. independent line. caller: thanks for taking my call. there still is a debate going on over the vote in wisconsin with the mail-in ballots and mainly democratic counties not following the rules. people filled the men. there are still specific states that didn't follow the rules due to covid. hopefully we will get back somewhat to normal. i want to thank joe manchin for an early christmas present. he works with the constituents of the state of virginia and

whoever opposes him, you can have your opinions and your views. i think he's just doing what the people of this state want him to do. which is the way it should work. host: paul shankman reporting via tweet this morning that president biden's plan for russia aggression centers on new negotiation. also continuing to marshal support for potential sanctions. wall street journal reporting that more visas for seasonal workers will be issued by the united states. michelle hackman reporting 6500 will be set aside for applicants. all countries that have sent large numbers of migrants to the border. we will go to debbie in columbia

. republican line. >> there is no way to know if the voter completed the ballot and they need to show in person a more developed country. host: we heard a caller from washington say they used it as well. what's different that can't be applied nationally? >> whenever there is an internet connection, the elections can be helped -- hacked. more voter suppression happens when illegal ballots are inserted into the election because each illegal ballot

cancels out a legal ballot. host: why do you believe the last election suffered that? caller: because the cpac pack captures show that it was hacked. host: that's debbie in columbia, missouri. we will hear from jean and delroy, ohio. democrat line. caller: i'm calling because i just wanted to go ahead and google mr. john fund. and find out how long he has been talking about stealing the elections. one of his phony ones was in 2009 that was published during barack obama's presidency. i wish you would ask him why it

bothers the heritage foundation are so-called crooked elections but the fact that it's been decades since a republican got the popular vote but somehow they always get to walk into the white house. host: in west virginia. republican line. caller: my comment is i want to thank senator joe manchin for standing up for the people of west virginia and not going with the people not from west virginia. it's very good to hear him support us other than the party. and one more point.

host: as far as your state is concerned, other colors have mentioned things like childcare tax credits. do you think that's a valid argument? >> they put things that are pork and they don't support west virginia at all. i have one more point and that's on january 6. the only police officer who did his job that day was the one who shot the lady who was trying to get into the white house. that's their job.

host: in florida. republican line. caller: i'm going to try to touch on two or three. it's interesting that places like delaware and new jersey have less time to vote in the states like georgia and they are calling it a racist bill in order to stifle blacks and hispanics from voting which makes no sense. voter id law, if you are on welfare you have to have an id to be on welfare. military. what's next, they are going to start going through their mail and see who they are writing to? they say they want to protect the freedom of speech.

that's the next step. they do that in prison. the thing with chuck schumer saying he's got little tricks up his sleeve. the united states of america didn't vote for joe biden in order for him to do whatever progressives wanted him to do. they are in that slim majority and acting like they have majority. host: one of the things dr. anthony fauci spoke about at the press club was testing in the united states. specifically the lack of rapid testing. >> there is a shortage of rapid

tests. i have to ask you, were we not prepared for this kind of surge in terms of thinking about -- we have talked a lot about them vaccinated, we have talked a lot about roosters. in terms of testing, there seem to be severe limits on places to find a rapid test. >> that's correct. if you look at what things were like a year ago, it's infinitely better than it was. the government has now put out 10,000 centers that are giving away free tests. have invested to make 200 million to 500 million tests available per month.

you're absolutely correct, it's spotty. in some places you can easily get a test. host: the president addresses issues of omicron. you can follow along at c-span.org. i will be 2:30 this afternoon. willie is in alabama. democrat line. caller: i want to comment on vaccinations. we didn't have a choice on what drugs we were going to take. a lot of them were experimental. how can they let soldiers join the kkk when back when i was drafted we couldn't even participate in that?

host: this is ed in massachusetts. independent line. caller: people who believe that someone is racist because he does not believe that black people are less capable of getting an id may themselves be racist and if voter id is not required, what would prevent me from voting several times for donald trump if he runs in 2024? host: when it comes to the biden administration and gasoline powered cars. valerie richardson reporting that fuel efficiency standards. the 2026 fleet wide standard at 40 miles per gallon.

that's well above the trump administration's target of 32 miles per gallon. it also surpasses the obama era based on real-world label value estimate. terrance is in michigan. caller: i just wanted to throw out the voter fraud is a republican talking point. it's nonsense. if we are finding any fraud, its republicans. voting trace -- twice for trump. it's a talking point that leads to ally and it's a big lie. it leads to the deplorable mob sacking the capital. on january 6. it's nonsense. republican legislatures all across the country are

implementing all kinds of voter suppression. all various different ways to keep people from voting. you're one caller touched on the social media. with the effect that is on people's psyche before they go to the ballot box. we've got this whole russia hoax thing and that donald trump knew nothing about russian ties. he admitted, i have no contact with russians. he said he knew nothing about the trump tower meeting with russians. he didn't know that mike flynn lied to the fbi about contact with russians. russia, did putin have a preference in the 2016 race? just ask yourself that question. did he have a preference.

host: richard in massachusetts. democrat line. caller: he want me to start talking? host: go ahead. you are on. caller: my number one problem is americans always seem to blame the wrong people on almost everything. they are not too smart from what i can figure out. i don't read. they don't read books, newspapers, magazines. they are too distracted by entertainment. host: specifically what are you talking about? caller: what i'm talking about is stupid people. that's why we get so many things wrong. host: regarding? give me a specific. caller: everything -- they vote for krapp, they vote for lies that keep coming over and over again.

the talking points of the republican party. host: such as what? caller: such as voting rights. the big lie. that's one of them. you talk about money, they screw everything up in the country. democrats have never really had a chance to do anything that would actually prove they were wrong about everything. host: the democrats are in current power now. how defective do you think they are? caller: you've heard of the filibuster? ever heard of the filibuster, buddy? host: you are saying democrats never had a chance to do anything. i'm saying they have the white house and both houses of congress. caller: they got both houses but it's such a slim margin. they can't do anything with the filibuster. they are going to have to change that. host: ok. let's go to deborah.

caller: i'm calling about the mail-in voting. we had a referendum to allow more mail-in voting and it was defeated. yet our governor has said she's going to make it her priority to expand mail-in voting. i want to know why when the people have spoken and you can't say new york state is a republican state. democrats outnumber republicans by a very large margin. yet he is going to be pushing mail-in voting. to me that's going to undermine confidence in the system because it's going against the wishes of the majority of the people in the state host: what's wrong with mail-in voting on its face?

caller: the same reason that many countries in the world democracies say it's too open to fraud. it's not just in america. we were always looking around the world when it comes to definitions and saying look at europe, look at the eu, look at britain. host: we had a viewer from washington state today say that they had mail-in voting and it works just fine. caller: that certifies that there is no fraud because someone called in your show? host: i'm just saying that's their example in the united states and you referenced other countries. caller: it isn't just republicans. in many parts of the world it is considered to open to fraud. the people of new york rejected this. and yet the governor is going

against that referendum. isn't that not carrying out the wishes of the majority of the people? host: ok. that's deborah from new york. the biden administration making a big effort in replacing lead pipes across the united states and concerns of safety. we will be joined by e&e news reporter hannah northey. we will take those calls when washington journal continues. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. funded by these brands and more.

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>> a new mobile video app from c-span. download today. august washington journal continues. host: our guest is hannah northey from e&e news here to talk about an announcement from the administration when it comes to lead pipes. can you characterize the leadpipe problem in the u.s. and what it's causing? >> lead is a neurotoxin that can flake off -- it's a legacy infrastructure issue. reports have shown that there are leadpipe's in the united states across the nation. right now the united states is in the process of the water

systems in the united states are in the process of mapping these lead pipes because they are a danger. it's not known exactly where they are and that's why this regulatory work is so important. this is a legacy issue that has plagued the united states for decades. host: can you tell what the proposal is? guest: the white house released a multipronged plan and it's essentially more than a dozen pathways they are pursuing to eradicate lead in drinking water . it's a big deal for the united states. the administration announced the

release of $3 billion from the infrastructure package and that's part of a larger pot of money in the infrastructure package. they also clarified that states can use relief funds and that is a change. on top of that they also took regulatory action. they allowed the lead and copper rule to affect how lead is tested in drinking water. and then at the same time the epa says they are going to craft a new and strict regulation by 2024 so all across the nation you're going to have money flowing into different revolving

funds that states and cities can apply for. you're going to have these epa regulations taking effect. they also did take action to reduce lead in paint because there are other sources. it's not just from the pipes. host: what's the total dollar figure the administration is expected to spend? >> president biden campaigned on this issue and initially said it would be $45 billion. industry has that cost even higher at $60 billion. right now we have $15 billion. essentially that's what's

included in the infrastructure package and we would have had $10 billion more in the build back better package but that's now in jeopardy given joe manchin's opposition. there are other funds out there but they are not dedicated's dreams -- dedicated streams of money. host: how did that figure come about? guest: the epa estimates there up to 10 million lead service lines in the united states and the costs vary. detroit for example has about $6,000 to remove a lead service line in chicago. we are trying to locate these lead service lines and then different locations have different costs because you have to find them, test them and remove them and there are a lot

of different challenges and complications with that. host: if you have questions about this new initiative (202) 748-8000 eastern and central time zones. (202) 748-8001 mountain and pacific time zones. it was asked to the deputy national climate advisor last week about this effort. the price tag that's being spent and if it was enough. i want to get your response to that. >> could you address environmentalist concerns about setting a goal for the service line? >> absolutely. as an environmentalist i

appreciate you asking that question. this is a multipronged approach and setting the goal is the motivation and hopefully the point i have conveyed is simply by setting that goal, president biden and vice president harris have motivated action in communities all around the country already. what the epa is in doing is creating new binding requirements so that we can have the certainty. he put your kid in the car, you don't just buckle them up with a regular seatbelt. we are going to invest. we are going to set standards. we are going to bring technical assistance. we are going to be their shoulder to shoulder with folks as they take on the challenge.

host: put the context around it if you could. guest: they are putting a goal out there that will drive water systems to remove these service lines. public health advocates want to see in this new rule, they are saying they want to see changes in the lead and copper rule that's taking effect. his message is essentially the we are giving the tools to do this. the epa is setting up to do this in water systems. there is not call for a mandate but that won't be finished until 2024.

host: how is the manpower determined? will this be money given to the states? >> that's an interesting question. cities and states can apply for grants and loans and they can use that money to get the job done. i just wrote a story yesterday. we are going to see a lot of action with engineering. they are going to go out, try and predict where this lead is located and test the pipelines and remove them if they can get that money. the administration has vowed to work so that money is distributed equitably. it is a challenge that people are concerned about for disadvantage and verbal and

smaller water systems. do they have the manpower to maneuver that complicated process for applying for loans. they have the time, do they have the budget. any kind of federal assistance. host: our first caller is in louisiana. you are on with hannah northey of e&e news. go ahead. caller: -- was very important. -- with all the lead pipe. host: does not factor into all of these efforts by the

administration? guest: it sounded like he was making the point about there is no argument about removing lead from homes. i think the administration does want to remove lead from homes. i didn't know if there was also a of private wealth. this has to do with lead service pipes connecting into homes. epa doesn't actually regulate private wealth. this has to do with the lead service lines. host: this is a viewer off of twitter asking if it's a revolving fund. what show do local systems have to pay for upgrading their infrastructure. >> the other funds are part of the infrastructure package.

so it's going to be a mixture of that. it's the tippy seen how much these water systems are going to have to pay. a lot of this is forgivable loans so they don't have to pay them back. so it's mostly loans and grants. host: in new york. good morning. caller: i was confused a little bit in regards to one of your opening statements. he talked about testing for the pipe. locating, testing and replacing. why would you test something that you are going to replace anyway. does it mean the lead pipe is going to stay in function? thank you.

guest: these systems have to determine where these service lines are located. if you dig up a pipe and it's not lead, it doesn't have to be replaced. so the water systems are going through this process of mapping them and finding them in determining if they need to be dug up and replaced. host: let's hear from sue in colorado. caller: i hope i didn't miss it so this sounds like a stupid question. where did they start? at the treatment plan and they go to the house? do they just do it down the street up to the property owners place? did they go into the property owners place? where do they start? i saw it done where i had lived

before and they tore up the whole street to replace a pipe. i don't know the answer to that question. the other is they have modern technology now. if they do have to take up the streets to get to the household that they can now put cable lines in, they can put telephones, service things. so if you are going to tear up the asphalt of the city streets to replace lines, they should go for the whole hog and put things underground with it. it can be done safely now that they put things down deep enough that when you have tornadoes and hurricanes it doesn't knock down the other services that are supplied. host: thank you caller.

guest: it lays out this process -- they are testing the water that comes out of the faucets because the lead can corrode. it's not just a matter of testing the pipes. you test the water to determine if there is lead contamination. if you do test for lead on your property, you can require water utility to replace the lead service line. the city has to have approval from the homeowners to go in and remove any lead service line and there's also the question of fixtures. the caller is right, these new

technologies and ways are evolving for removing lead service lines. i was just writing about these different water analytics firms using geographical data to find out where these pipes are located. so that reduces the number of eggs -- digs. host: the vice president said that 10 million homes impacted by this and 40,000 rules. do schools get first priority or is it homes? >> this new rule approved last year interestingly enough is the first requirement for testing for lead in daycare's and schools so that's pretty wild considering the timeframe. the testing in the schools is

prioritized so we are going to get that information first. as far as whether the money is prioritized i think that will depend on systems. caller: good morning. i fully support the efforts to replace lead piping. however, i was really discouraged and disheartened and really horrified to see a story on 60 minutes about open sewage that leads to some sort of retainer in the neighborhood that has been there for years and no one has done anything about it. it's a health hazard. the children developed worms that we thought were really nonexistent in this country. i really just want to bring that out publicly and hope there will be some attention to that from this administration.

while the people in mississippi are talking about abortion, there having school children having to go outside to the porta john. it's going to take national intervention to fix it. guest: catherine flowers is an environmental justice advocate and she has joined the biden administration bringing a lot of attention to that. there is around $12 billion for clean water. so money is being made available for upgrades. the administration has vowed to use that. host: how does environmental justice apply?

guest: there are a lot of definitions out there. essentially it is ensuring that disadvantaged communities are worse than the national average -- are made whole through mediation. the administration has definitely made this one of their largest goals. a lot of these disadvantaged communities are living in places with lead paint in them. it's a legacy pollution issue. if they lived near transportation hubs it could be a matter of contaminated soil. the administration has vowed to

address that and they are. host: let's hear from juanita in michigan. caller: i'm from a small city in michigan and we have had this problem for a long time. the united states has had this problem when it was required not to use lead anymore. so my question is, there using a lot of money to take potholes for structures that were built before 68. there is a lot of money because we've been flooded with a lot of money so that they automatically start siphoning off these moneys

to take potholes on structures that were built for regulations started. that's my first question. host: we believe that there -- we will leave that there. guest: the question was how are they going to use this money. honestly it's up to each city and what kind of engineers and analytics. some of these firms are working in benton harbor and you can see that it's a slow going process. it looks like slow going. i think it's just a long process and they have to dig it up and test those pipelines. host: you are based in ann arbor.

what did flint michigan teach not only the united states and federal government but what lessons did we learn? guest: that if she was going on for seven years now. i think it shows the complexity. i think it shows there can be a real break in public trust. it shows the length of time. i just confirmed with a flint city official yesterday that they are not even going to remove all of the lead service lines until the end of next year. in 2014 when they switched water sources to a more current flint river water and that corroded the lead service lines in the city. the state officials said the water was safe. people have lost trust with that city.

the difficulty -- must be horrible for people permanently affected by this. it shows you have to deal with that head on the importance of transparency. host: walter in mississippi. caller: wouldn't be a lot easier and simpler to just give everybody a filter? especially the schools. that way you won't have to dig all the pipes up and caused billions of dollars. host: thank you walter. guest: that's an interesting idea. i think what the goal here is is to ensure that the lead doesn't make it to the faucet in the first place and who knows if we will be installing filters in

the right place. for sure the filters are part of this. what they are doing right now is combining removal of lead service lines with filters and then in new jersey they are following up with at home you can test your waters. part of that is to build back the public trust. host: we will hear from pat in cleveland, ohio. caller: just clarification. are they replacing all lead pipes going down the street or just lead pipes going from the main to the homes? guest: that they are just replacing the lead service lines that go from the water mains to the homes. there is a warm gear issue of whether or not private homeowners can afford to pay for

the parts of their lines that need to be removed. if they can and they can call upon the water utility to remove that line. it reaches from the water mains to the homes. host: hannah northey for e&e noise joining us. what are the next steps to watch for with this program? guest: i think people are waiting to see what happens with the build back better plan. obviously folks want to see more money. the price tag we talked about at the beginning of this was 60 billion dollars and here we have $15 billion. what will happen on capitol hill when they get the money. we are going to see by 2024 water utilities coming out with maps and people can see what lead service lines they have in

their community and we will see more communities emerged with elevated levels of lead and that's going to be something that the water sector has to answer for and it's a public health crisis. host: hannah northey, happy holidays to you. later this afternoon, the president addressing omicron and new efforts by the administration when it comes to testing. you can see that at c-span, c-span.org and our c-span mail app. another addition of washington journal comes your way at 7:00 a.m. tomorrow. we will see you then. ♪ [captioning performed by the

national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2021] >> week, starting sunday, december 26, watch "washington journal's" authors week. monday, former democratic turned independence under joe lieberman with "disinterest solution -- with "the centrist solution." the book "the sum of us." wednesday, former presidential candidate andrew yang with "forward." on thursday, former trump fda commissioner dr. scott gottlieb discusses "uncontrolled spread: why covid-19 pushed us and how we can defeat the next pandemic." on friday, bob woodson with

"red, white and black: rescuing american history from revisionists and race hustlers." our special holiday authors week on c-span or on our mobile app, c-span now. >> here is a look at what is live on c-span today. coming up this morning, whether russia and china are becoming closer strategic allies and what that bilateral relationship could mean for the u.s. and the world. the atlantic council hosts a discussion at 11:00 eastern. this afternoon, president biden gives an update on the increase of omicron cases and the shortage of at-home covid-19 testing kits. that is live at 2:30 eastern, here on c-span. you can also watch online at c-span.org or on our new video app, c-span now.

>> if the label were different, the doctor would not have prescribed that 30 day prescription, so explain why we should not aggressively be pursuing relabeling. >> i think as the evidence comes in, we are going to need to aggressively look at relabeling. that was the purpose of setting a different framework so that we would have a legal framework for doing that. >> the evidence has been here for a long time. it is the evidence of thousands of people, hundreds of thousands of people dying in this country. it is the evidence i see when i go to the funeral of a constituent who has been in recovery multiple times and has relapsed. it is the evidence i see when i go to the funeral for that

constituent's sister speak to the mother who has lost two adult daughters to this illness despite their repeated attempts to into recovery. there is plenty of evidence about what we need to do about this epidemic, and the fda needs to take a lead. >> last week, president biden's nominee to be the fda commissioner, faced a hearing in the senate health committee. watch on c-span, c-span.org, or, c-span now our new video app. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government, sponsored by these companies and more, including cox. >> cox is committed to providing eligible families access to affordable internet. bridging the digital divide one connected and engaged student at a time. cox, bringing us closer. >>