announcer: right now, we go back to this morning's "washington journal." host: stick around, we will be right back. ♪

announcer: both the house and senate have adjourned for the holiday recess and will return in january for the second session of the 170th august. the senate will take up the spending plan known as build back better, despite joe manchin announcing his opposition to the bill. the democratic leadership will also to voting rights legislation, which may require changing filibuster rules. there's is also a february 18 deadline to pass additional federal spending legislation to over a government shutdown. watch these developments on the c-span networks, once congress returns, or watch coverage on c-span now, our new mobile video app. go to c-span.org for scheduling information or to stream video, live or on-demand come anytime.

c-span, your unfiltered view of government. announcer: "washington journal" continues. host: we continue with our annual authors week series, featuring top writers from across the political spectrum. topics. this morning, we are joined by joe lieberman on his book "the centrist delusion: how we made government work and can make it work again." the first half of that book, when with the last time government actually worked and worked well? guest: well, it is rare these days, but just in the last two months, it work. in the so-called bipartisan infrastructure reform bill which was adopted a couple months ago. starting with a bipartisan group in the house, the house problem solvers focused, they joined up with a group in the senate led

by joe manchin and suzanne collins and ultimately, president biden joined them in the senate and they compromised, which is the way it is supposed to happen. that is what i mean by the centrist solution. and the bill passed and it will do a lot of good for this country. not only in terms of fixing our roads and bridges which desperately need fixing, but also making some investment in access to broadband and doing some things about climate change. it isn't much talked about, but it matters much to me. we had a recent example of how it can work, the history of centrist solutions. centrism is not the same as moderate.

centrist means whether you are left or right or center or democrat or republican or independent you are willing to come to the center to talk about a problem with people who have different points of view, different parties than you, and willing to negotiate and compromise to get something done for your country and your constituents. in this book, i described a number of cases where i was in the middle of that kind of process on balancing the budget, environmental protection, national security homeland security after 9/11. it can discuss, but it hasn't been done lately and the american people have suffered as a result. host: q used the word compromised twice in the answer to the first question. why do so many members of congress consider compromise a bad word? is there something wrong with how this political system is set

up that makes members of congress west willing to compromise -- less willing to compromise? guest: in a democracy where people have different points of view like ours, there is no central authority some of no dictates to say "this is the way it's going to be," you only get things done if you sit down and compromise. i always say to people, it does a senior has to compromise your ethics or your morality. if something that is being proposed you think is just unethical or immoral, don't support it. but most of the time in the legislative sessions, and i can tell you because i was in the senate for 24 years, the compromises are not moral or ethical. they are questions like do you want 100% of what you want on a given bill, or are you willing

to come beside some which is to say, access last -- accept less. going back to the constitutional convention were the compromised to get this country of ours going, it has always that way. in recent times, there been a lot of pressures going the other way. pressures from political parties, from contributors, increasingly partisan media that have made members of both parties, liberals and conservatives less willing to compromise and therefore the american people have suffered because their problems have not been responded to or solved and opportunities for our country have not been used and that is what we got to change for the good of america. host: what was the most

consequential compromised that you helped together when you were in congress for over two decades? guest: that's a great question. i don't know that i've ever answered it exactly that way. i think you asked me what i the most significant -- in my 24 years, what do i feel is the most important laws that i help adopt for america, i would say it was the laws that we adopted after 9/11, after the terrorist tax. i happened to be a ranking democrat at different times on what was then a governmental affairs committee and later became the homeland security committee. we created the department of homeland security and we created the 9/11 commission and we helped adopt the 9/11 commission report which i think made america safer from terrorist attacks and a lot of other

dangers to our people at home in the years since then. i mean, i was involved in the clean air act, help to rebalance the budget of foreign affairs supporting our military. but in the 24 years if you asked what do i feel the best about, it was those post 9/11 laws. incidentally, the good thing to say is that we had a lot of just in adopting those, but they were not partisan. they were more about different ideas that have to solved the problem, how to protect america, and they were about turf protection five parts of the federal government that didn't want to be performed, didn't want a homeland security department over them. and we were able to reconcile that because we understood that america had been attacked and if

we didn't do something about it, probably would be again. host: is it fair to say that national crisis begets more compromise on capitol hill, and if so, why hasn't the national and international crisis of the pandemic begat more compromise? guest: excellent question and anyway, -- in a way, that is a measure of how corrosive and damaging the partisanship and ideological extremism that seems to dominate washington and our government these days is. in other words, under president trump and president biden, in response to the covid-19 pandemic, we have had some bipartisan legislation adopted to deal with it.

probably the most successful and important to the american people is the one thing that both parties supported under president trump to fund the development of the vaccines that are keeping a lot of people in our country and around the world alive today. but the partisan reaction to the pandemic among the american people the differing reactions, current, to wearing masks or accepting the vaccine would seem to be based on partisanship just as a measure of where we are now and how we've got to get to a better place where we see each other as part of the same large, american community which we are blessed to be part of and it is only going to continue as strong

as it has been throughout our history if we start thinking first set the country. and much later about party or ideology. particularly when we are threatened by something as deadly as covid-19. host: former senators joe lieberman with us about his "centrist solution: how we made government work and how we can make it work again." republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. senator lieberman, as folks are calling in, a big part of the bill back better act has to do with climate change efforts, efforts to fight climate change in the. i just want you to talk a little bit about the last time major climate change legislation was moved through congress and your

involvement in that. remind viewers of what that legislation was. guest: well, going back to the 90's, i was just reading about climate change a lot and i heard some hearings from the government affairs committee and i just concluded that climate change was a real problem that was getting worse unless we changed by doing tough things to reduce the carbon emissions into the air. life on the planet wasn't going to be forever children and grandchildren what it was for us so we had to try to get things done in washington through the federal government always with a republican cosponsor. i knew something this big and

controversial never would pass on a partisan basis a series of republicans was adopted from the very successful clean air act 1990, adopted under president bush 41. that have been used very successfully to combat acid rain which before that have been compromising health, particularly older people and younger people, and destroying a lot of forest and lakes in the northeast and other parts of the country.

but it was too political and people didn't want to change. mccain and i got our proposal over 50 votes on one occasion, but ultimately not to 60. a lot of the people against were mostly republicans and change our title into cap and tax. and of course, the industries that would have to change most really lobbied hard against it. the question, what was the last time, that was the last time there was major climate change legislation can by congress, but there really has not been major climate change legislation adopted. ironically, i would say that the i'm a change our of the infrastructural form bill

adopted a few months ago maybe the most sick victim governmental action in this regard except perhaps fuel efficiency standards in air vehicles. and i want to end my answer to this in a way that is not totally pessimistic. the last decade or so, we have made with the significant progress in trying to reduce emissions. it is interesting to me that it has come without governmental regulations or laws for the most are. the private sector has done it with developments like electric cars and the increasing sophistication of alternative forms of energy, so that gives us some hope. but really, ultimately, this will only be not solved for now, but the dangers of global warming and climate change will

only be reduced significantly if both public and private sectors are working together to do that. of course, i hope and pray that that will happen soon. host: plenty of callers waiting to talk. utah, democrat, you are up first. good morning. caller: good morning, senator. it is an honor to talk to you. what i've been thinking about for quite a while, you know, we are a capitalist, socialist country whether people like it or not. how many people work for your city, state, york county? all government agencies, all the schoolteachers and everything. they all depend on the government. we depend on each other. whether you are democrat or republican doesn't make any difference people don't realize

that the difference between a communist and socialist, a communist, you don't devote. a socialist, they take their leaders. tell me where i'm wrong. thank you. guest: thanks, it is an honor to talk to you, i appreciate your sentiment, it is the kind of sentiment we need in our country now a lot. what i really like is what you said about working together and not saying or doing things that divide us further. george washington warned us in his farewell address that loyalty to the political parties will come to a point where it was more important people than loyalty to the country. and without the kind of unity

that existed at that moment in our history, he worried that america would not remain independent. it is still a worry. less about our independence now, and more about whether we are going to be the great small d democratic country that we all wanted to be. so you're difference between communism and socialism is kind of interesting. anyway, you are right. communism generally has been totalitarian. terrible deprivation of economic and personal freedom, and we saw it in the form of the soviet union and we still do in many ways. socialism is a different interview than that. it puts a lot more into the government.

a lot more responsibility. it relies much more on the government than the private sector to deal with our problems. if you had a spectrum of political views, you might say that it goes center, center, left, left, socialism. generally speaking, i don't think the country as a socialist country and that is something that the democratic party really doesn't say clearly to the american people. i do want to say one word about what you said about people who work for the government. the government was created not by the politician so they could have jobs, although i know people think that. the government was created because we need government to protect us, to do things for us we can't do for ourselves, beginning with our security, but

also our moral values of helping those who really cannot help selves. but of course, that doesn't mean that we should let the government mushroom and grow to take more money that people work so hard for. anyway, we are going back to the title of my book. it is a question of centrist solutions, not far left solutions that give everything to the government or far right solutions that they want to dismantle the government programs that people rely on. and that requires negotiations and respectful discussions among elected leaders in washington, negotiation and compromise to get something done. centrist solutions, they require

members of both parties and usually are more balanced. and something else, they last. if you adopt something only with support of members from one party, the odds are when the other party takes control of the white house which certainly will happen at the boy, they will dismantle for repeal what was adopted by the one party and that doesn't give the country the kind of stability and the american people the confidence to depend on what their government has done. all of this, i think ends up in a thoughtful, patriotic center of american political. we haven't been there enough in recent years. host: along with seeing the title of your, viewers are also seeing cochair of no labels. can you briefly explain what no

labels is? guest: no labels as a group that was founded about 11 years ago now, a little earlier than december of 2010. there was an idea to get something done. in this case, a woman who had been a political fundraiser. in 2009, she decided the country was becoming much too partisan. there were terrible partisan rights over how to respond or whether to respond to the 2008 great recession. she worked and talked to people including me, and i encouraged her about setting up an organization which they have

discussed this morning. over the years there have been different tactics or strategies. first, with no labels convening groups of republicans and democrats in congress to get them talking together. and then he continued that we tested for bipartisan support among the american people that were popular. then, we spun off a group to raise money for candidates, republicans and mcgrath who really were centrist and willing to work across party lines to get something done for the country and we know that they

wanted to do that, and a lot of them, but they were afraid of being cut off by their parties, by interest groups, by big contributors. if you want to work across party lines, if you don't want to march every time your party leader tells you to march because you don't get is the right direction, we are going to work you. and of course, the frustration of our government, a lot of people in both parties feel it has gotten to a point where we have the house problem solvers caucus, 29 democrats, 29 republicans, and sometimes as many as 20 centers equally -- senators to work on problems. again, the most recent compliment that i give them credit for his bipartisan infrastructure reform bill. so that is no labels. to reelect a lot of the

republicans and democrats in 2022, and hopefully encourage the election of a centrist president in 2024. i became chairman of the group in 2014 or 2015 after i had been out of the senate for a couple of years, and i'm very proud of what the group has done. i think it is the most effective response to the crisis in our government, trying to work with the two-party system to make it work again for the american people. host: morgantown, west virginia, independent. good morning. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. senator lieberman, i want to take a few minutes to give

suggestions or tips for just the ordinary voter who would like their elected legislators to compromise. i write letters, i make phone calls. i don't deal that i get through. i feel and can eating against who else is down there, wealthy, special interest. i don't really stand a chance. the other question i had for you is, as you became independent, do you have advice for independents and other voters that aspire to be potential candidates not of the two-party system? thank you. guest: thank you, those are great questions. you know, in the end, the ultimate power in our form of government is with the voters, with the american people.

but the question is how do they express that power to the people in office? because otherwise, which is the case now, they political parties, people with big money, people who are ideological activists, most of them would be further to the right or left, have more power than the average citizen like yourself, and the only way to overcome that, don't be frustrated to the point you stop doing it. you have got to write your elected members of congress, you have got to call them your election time, you have got to tell them, hopefully with a lot of other people that you want them to go to washington to make

things better. and that requires working across party lines. and really, you want them to remember you and your fellow voters of all parties because that is who they represent, not the party buses or the big attribute or's or even increasingly partisan media in our country. and the final point, wrinkly, if you have the time, and i know it is not always easy for everybody, but get involved supporting candidates reflect those values, regardless of what your party is. and if you really have the feeling and the time, run for office yourself, because we need people with exactly your point

of view to get involved and be part of our government. your second question being independent, there is an interesting irony here, which is that i know a lot of places around the country, the largest voters, and sometimes i this way, the fastest-growing political party in america is no party. it is the independents, the unaffiliated voters. these are people who are fed up with the behavior of the two major parties. but independents just because they are independent or because of the way our political system is organized have trouble getting together. but there is a lot of power in independents if they work together.

i must say, i thought a lot about this. iran in 2000 the u.s. senate as an independent frankly because i lost the democratic nomination and i said i'm not going to live just one group of already members decide whether i can continue to serve our state and our country, and so i was able in connecticut to run as an independent and god for the people of connecticut, i got reelected as an independent with support from independents, democrats and republicans, so it can be done, but it's not easy. certainly at the national level, we have not elected an independent -- or, you might say a word party candidate for president since 1860 with a

fellow named abraham lincoln. incidentally, lincoln ran on a bipartisan ticket, a republican. he chose a democrat, andrew johnson, the governor of tennessee to be his vice presidential running mate to try to unify the country on the divisive issue of slavery of course, the civil war was about to start. so, it can be done but it takes a lot of guts and the circumstances in a particular race to make it happen. the two parties have an almost serious power in our country. the constitution doesn't call for only two parties. the laws don't say you can only have two parties. they have used their power to block third parties from coming

in to the political system. so no labels works the major to artese, but if the system doesn't work for the american people, i think people are frustrated enough, angry enough, worried enough about the future of our country in difficult times that there may be opportunities for a third-party or independents. and it could happen in 2020 or depending on who the republicans and demo dominate for president. it is a very serious, difficult, and in some ways exciting time, and i hope you and people like you will not only stay involved, but get more involved things can come out right for the country.

host: we have just about a half-hour left with senator joe lieberman and i do have a lot of calls waiting for you jackson, texas, republican. caller: hello? host: go ahead, mark. guest: hi, mark. caller: ok. i want to relate the story from the year 2000. in the year 2000, i attended a piano concert in galveston, marvin hamlisch. and he would talk to the audience and that one when he asked for a show of hands of democrats or republicans and the audience was overwhelmingly republican and he asked why don't you like joe? in one of the members of the audience shouted out "we love joe, we just don't like al."

at that point, the audience erupted in applause. i think if the right candidates are running, republicans will vote them i just wanted to let you know that story. guest: i really appreciate that. i don't really know marvin hamlisch but that means a lot to me and i also appreciate the reaction of the route. i am a big fan of al gore myself and grateful to him because if it wasn't for him, i never would have had this rate through opportunity to run for vice president. but i love the stories and i'm hopeful because at this moment in history, they say that people are not blindly partisan. at least, they weren't in 2000. if you given candidates and platforms that they want, they will support people who art

their party. in fact, that's part of what happened that elected joe biden in 2020, certainly among independents and hopefully more of that will happen in 2022 and 2024 to benefit republicans and democrats who are problem solvers and centrists. thanks a lot for calling. host: someone on twitter once to know that if you think don mckay had picked for his vice instead of sarah palin, do you believe you and john mccain would have won? guest: well, unfortunately we will never know. just generally, getting to be mccain's friend, personal, not just political was one of the blessings of my life and i miss them, i feel sometimes that i could use advice from him now.

usually directions. to me, when they called me, is campaign manager called me in the spring or the summer and i said, are you kidding? i am supporting him, i was as close as two people could be. we had a lot of different opinions politically but we trust -- trusted each other. how could we do it? he is a republican, i'm a democrat. and the campaign manager said i'm serious about this. so i talked to john time i saw him and i said rick told me about this, i don't know how you could do it. you don't have to do it the same way. so i got a reason. i went through the whole it -- bit. and don said, joe, that is the

reason i'm thinking about this. the fact that you're a democrat and i am a republican. this country needs bipartisan leadership and the best way to do that is for me to have a democratic awning mate who i -- running mate who i trust to work with. and it really was admirable that he had the guts to do it, knowing in the end people in the republican party would destroy the party and a lot of republicans would walk out of the convention if he attempted to nominate me which is what i expect would have happened if the democratic candidate shows a republican vice presidential and. let me get to your question. do i think mccain and i might have won? we'll never know.

john and i talked about it a little bit and we both read that barack obama, he was walking in the clouds at that point on the mountaintop and of course, the republican party's standing because of the great recession was way down. president bush was unpopular even though he is very popular now today. it would have been hard to win. it would have been quite an experience. i always feel that we would have done better and i will always be grateful that john mccain actually seriously thought about doing this and it shows how much he felt that partisanship was weakening america. if there was ever anybody who was a patriot and put our country first both in war and in

peace it was john mccain. host: in the pelican state, this is janice, independent. good morning. guest: good morning. caller: hello, mr. lieberman. nice seeing you again. guest: good to hear your voice. caller: humanity is killing our planet, our spaceship. we are polluting the water and the air in the ground. we must wake up for it is too late. government is a natural, god-given starting with family, extending to the community, state, country and world. war is stupid. racism is crazy.

we all need to share, to show respect and care. government is of and by and for the people. greed is a cancer. education and training and work is a must. cost and control would take a waiting ration and everyone should pay some taxes. more honesty is essential to all persons and ultimate survival. host: do you have a question for the senator? caller: i -- i -- i'm a sensualist and i wonder if you is. guest: i think that is an inspiring statement. it is full of ideals and values, some of which may be

controversial, but i think so many of which are consistent with american values and the public interest. what i want to give you, if you are not involved in the politics, if you take the values and the ideas you just talked about into politics, support a candidate or candidate who best reflect those, or run yourself. see if you can convince the american people. a lot of whom want to do everything you have just said. i appreciate very much what you said, i'm why you called, and i hope others will listen and the same. host: let me take you home to the constitution stating town

this is ted, independent. caller: how are you doing? i have a couple of questions for you. you talk about climate change. i honestly believe that washington doesn't leave the effects of climate change because it is doing so much unnecessary traveling. and my question to you, how many cars and fast burning -- from the ice age to melt all the ice? guest: john, i didn't hear the question at the end host: he was talking about all the fossil rules, earning vehicles, the

impact that is having on the environment. guest: i agree. over the years, the people who have either been skeptical or accept the fact that to me, the planet is warming and climate change is happening and it is causing more extreme weather, the melting of ice and rising of the sea levels which will begin to were already has begun to get to low-lying countries around the world. i will tell you a story. after the 2000 campaign in which i ran for president and in win, we were good friends by then, he worked mostly on foreign defense policy. andy came over to me and he said during the campaign for

president, a lot of people asked me about climate change and i gave them an answer that i wasn't really happy with because i don't understand it. i haven't spent time on it, i know you have. i want to work on it with your staff and my staff and see if i can understand it at her. that is what he did, and then we introduced the first trade bill. and i will tell you what impacted him. when he spoke on it on the floor , he had big, blown up pictures of both angst. the movement of ice and snow the top of some of our tallest mountains.

where is that ice going? it is going into the water. vehicle emissions are a big part of it. here is one place, and the government really did lead the way under earlier clean-air legislation laws, one of which had described in great detail how it was adopted in 1990 with bipartisan some work, but it gave the government the authority to require an automobile manufacturer to make cars and trucks more fuel-efficient.

as i said earlier, the big jump forward on this came from the private sector which, anyway, was responding more immediately and boldly to what they believed was the public interest in climate change and doing something about emissions. cars, hydrogen fuel cell cars and alternative sources of energy. as i say that, it is hard to find somebody who will say climate change isn't happening, because it is. people see it. the question is what are they willing to do about it? frankly, i hope that one of the things that comes out of joe

manchin leadership now is that the climate change art of it will work and there is a compromise and it is not exactly what either side wants, but it represents progress dealing with problem because, again, our children, grandchildren, and their grandchildren are not going to live the lives that we have been blessed to live because the planet will be threatening to them. nature itself. host: mark stone on twitter with a question: how do you feel about democrats trying to end the filibuster and possibly pack the supreme court? guest: i'm very leery of it and my position on the filibuster

has changed over the years. i used to feel like this is a majority government, why do you have 60 votes? but you know, it was there, as the people who adopted a long time ago with that, to stop passions from running across the party -- country and being in a war and a balance. but in more recent times, i am not for altering or repealing the mustard i think the most serious challenge to the effectiveness of our government in dealing with their problems

domestic and foreign is partisanship. a 60 vote requirement is part of the major remaining senator lugar procedure that requires bipartisanship because it is very rare that either party has 60 vote. today, i would say let's work to get the 60 votes for legislation that ought to be bipartisan. now it is something that democrats would like to do but if they do it, wait until the republicans control the senate and see how angry and frightened

democrats are about the republicans what the republicans do without a filibuster. remember, the medicine that you force the senate to take today will be the medicine that is forced angry throat tomorrow and my guess is you will not like. host: several callers waiting. larry and florida, republican, thanks for reading. caller: i have a couple questions, kind of a two-part question. what do you feel about the democrats having in mandate change this country so dramatic over the last year with basically a one-vote majority using the vice president, and then not having that mandate to not have any kind bipartisan legislation to change the election process of the federal takeover of elections? guest: right.

so you put your finger on one of the big problems in washington under president biden. i've worked with biden forever. we've served together for 24 years. he is a wonderful person and his whole record personal values in the senate that i watched and was part of was almost always willing to work across party lines to get something done. i think the american people that work for him that and that is out of what some of them were concerned about the divisiveness under president trump when they saw joe biden as a unifier and somebody would find centrist solutions. but there is no question that

part of that is what he has tried to do any response to the big problems the country faces, and part of it, this happens with presidents. they want to do something that is lasting legacy. in his case, as you say, the reality was that he has got a 50-50 senate and a four vote democratic majority. his own party is actually big, bold. and i will say something else. you've got to, no matter what your personal agenda is, if you are lucky enough to be elected a leader of a democratic republic like ours, you've also got to keep your eye on what the

columns of the moment are. the big problems of the moment, of this time are obviously the covid-19 pandemic and the economy. and now, in nation. the components of the build back better bill, they are good programs in a lot of ways, but most of them, in my opinion, don't deal with central issues. the virus and the economy and elation. i hope that people on the left of the democratic party will not continue to pressure joe biden in a way that doesn't respond to the priority problems, and let

him do what is in his nature which is to go bipartisan solutions that are more centrist and get something done about the two big problems we face today as he did with democrats and republicans in congress on the infrastructure reform bills. your question is a great one and that is my answer to it. host: to the badger state, this is tim, democrat, good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i just am really curious how a man like aloe trump could take over the republican party. i mean, what he said about john mccain, i didn't agree with him on his political use but there is no doubt in my mind that he was a true american hero, what he went through, but the big

russian is how a man who was born into wealth never surface country gets the veteran vote, and how he completely took over rural america when i don't think he has ever got his hands work dirty. he was born into wealth and everything is glitter and gold and he is a womanizer, we all know that. so how he convinced all these people across the country that he was the greatest thing since sliced bread and how he dragged rubio under the bus and they still stand behind him. guest: that is a really important question that everybody in the country should think about. i was offended, really shocked by his comments that president trump made. i guess he was running when he

made them in 2016 about john mccain. as you said, you could agree with john or disagree with him, and i did both, but he was a hero and a patriot. here is why i think president trump got elected, and it was totally surprising to me. in other words, the political system has so disappointed, frustrated, and created some of the american people that in 2016, when trump ran against hillary with a lot of experience , and lot of people in the middle, self-described moderates, if you look at the exit polls that year, they wanted a change.

and they knew, a lot of them, that trump was a risky choice but they figured he is not a politician and he is accessible in business, so let's give him a try, how bad could it be? instead of senator, secretary clinton who is part of the political establishment. and i think a lot of them decided whether they agree or disagree with the things that president trump did divided the country. if you look at the vote in 2020 and presidential election, the self-described moderates who voted for clinton, but not by much over trump in 2016 voted overwhelmingly for joe biden in 2020.

that is the answer. the very problem we are talking about today, partisanship, division, failure of the government to give solutions to our problems and hope to the american people and unity to the american people that elected president trump. and he helped some on some issues, but overall, made the partisanship and division worse and that is why i think people voted joe biden in 2020 and i hope they can realize their hopes for the country to come together and unify again host: ie last two calls in a row and then come back to you for your final thoughts.

ken, go ahead. caller: good morning. i just wanted to know how you feel about the jewish population in this country. from history, the democratic party has been anti-semitic. i was wondering how you feel about the jewish community always voting democrat. i haven't been able to wrap my mind around that. host: this is bill in pennsylvania. good morning. caller: hello. about 50 years ago, i was a journalist at the university of maryland. another person at that school was david lightman. i have a lot of respect for him. he went on to work for the baltimore sun. my understanding was he left his

son to work for the hartford current. he wanted to cover you. i would imagine you have had a lot of conversations with david. i was curious if you know what he's up to these days. guest: let me start with the first one. i've never been asked that question. i have been asked a question about why some jewish americans recently support democrats because republicans so the argument goes are more supportive of the state of israel. the great reality is there is bipartisan support in washington for a strong u.s. israel relationship.

jewish americans may be more like this. whatever their race or religion or nationality or in the else, they are with different points of view. there not a monolith. it is part of the jewish tradition to fight for social justice. a lot of jewish americans have felt the democratic party was the best place to do that. the support for republican candidates among the exit polls has grown in recent years. i don't know that i agree the democratic party as a record of anti-semite is him. since the middle of the 19th century, there is been anti-semi to cement our country.

i don't think either of the two major parties has reflected it. that's america. the point i'm making is regardless of your position on issues, we are part of a big family. whatever your religion or nationality or anything else, we disagree with each other, it's important that we come to the center and work across party lines with respect and get something done. the question about david lightman is interesting. i don't know that he came to hartford from the baltimore sun to cover me. he did cover me for a lot of years. we had a close and sometimes -- we disagreed sometimes.

he didn't cover me exactly as i would've wanted. david is a great journalist. he is not partisan at all. we need more of that. what is not so good is the media -- newspapers have diminished in their importance. they really are important. the remaining media including social media has become much more partisan and not informed and educated. the last i heard, i don't know if it's still true. david went from the hartford current, thought he was going to retire. he wound up with the mcclatchy newspapers. host: that's where he is now.

his twitter profile has him as a political correspondent and reporter for the mcclatchy newspapers. caller: that's great. guest: i must tell you as my own personal bias, he's got a lot of talent. i'm glad he is still writing and covering government. we ended up being good friends. i want to make this final point. the media are part of the problem we are talking about. it has changed a lot. in some ways, it's part of the diversification of immediate. we have three big broadcast networks. i didn't know what walter cronkite's politics were. he just told the news and informed us.

today, you go to the cable news networks that reflects your point of view. the unit has improved our lives but through social media, it is helped to divide us and created bigotry and hatred. we've got to figure out a way to discipline ourselves and create some ground rules for the media that don't compromise freedom of expression. that's one of the basic rights we have. i'm an optimist about the future. we are about to begin a new year. i think we have it within ourselves to get america back on the right track. we can do it. that's the message of our history. i am arguing we have done it recently and we can do it again. it's going to happen from the problem-solving bipartisan

center of american government and politics. thanks for having me on. it's been a good discussion. i appreciate it. host: i hope we can do it again in 2022. the book, the centrist solution, how we made government work. thank you. guest: good day and goodyear. host: in our last 50 minutes or so, returning to that question we began our program with today as we get to the end of 2021. we want to have you look back on the last 12 months and telus are you think the biggest political winners and losers of the year have billion. you can start calling it right now. republicans4. independence, (202) 748-8002. we will get your calls right after the break.

>> weekends are an intellectual feast. saturday, events and people that have shaped our nation's past. on sunday, book tb brings you the latest in nonfiction books and authors. it's television for serious readers. discover, explore, weekends on c-span 2. >> both the house and senate have adjourned for the holiday recess. they will return in early january for the second session of the 117th congress. the senate will take up the climate and social spending plan notice build back better. senate democratic leadership will hope to take up voting rights legislation which require

changing filibuster rules. there is a deadline for both chambers to pass additional federal spending legislation. watch these developments on the c-span networks. you can watch our full coverage on c-span now, our new mobile video. you can head over to c-span.org for scheduling or streaming video. your unfiltered view of government. >> washington journal continues. host: in our final segment, we will return to the question we began our program with, asking you to tell us who you think won and lost the year on the political stage. the phone number for you to join, (202) 748-8001 for republicans. democrats (202) 748-8000. independent (202) 748-8002.

we will get right to your phone call. who do you think was the political winner and loser? caller: the winner will be joe manchin for stopping that welfare monstrosity. i don't know when the government decided they needed to raise everyone's kids. you have the number of kids you can take care of. an emergency is nothing. the biggest loser is dr. fauci. he went from 15 days to slowing the spread to follow the science, which he stopped doing. host: this is vivian in tennessee. good morning. caller: good morning.

the biggest loser for this country was joe manchin and kristin cinema. taking money to vote against these bills to help america. he knows with all of that call, people have lung disease. he is in the special-interest. he doesn't care about the country. they have working americans who pay more taxes than the rich. the biggest loser to this country, i have a granddaughter in the u.k. they are talking about joe manchin it. they are turncoats. have a great day. host: new york. who is the political winner and loser? caller: good morning and happy holidays. the biggest winner is going to

be joe manchin. i think followed by donald trump. i think you might pick up a lot. we will see how it goes. joe manchin is getting a lot of respective independent voters. he is very well respected. the biggest loser is vice president harris. now i'm just fearful that if in doing happens to president biden, she doesn't seem to be up to the job. i see polling and things that are horrid. those would be my winners and losers. host: maryland, matt. you were next. caller: how are you doing? i don't know where or who comes

up with these questions. it really seems like it's dodging dealing with reality. i've noticed c-span has gone out of their way to avoid talking about these potential subpoenas of these traders that attacked congress. i want to know why. there is far more important things going on then asking these petty questions to keep people fighting amongst one another. host: we have talked quite a bit about those subpoenas you bring up. this is a story about it from the washington times. the panel targets phone records. the committee has subpoenaed form records from worthen 100 individual since the beginning of the probe.

that is from the washington times this morning. we are ny of you reflect at the end of the year on the year that was. the question we often asked this time of year is good you think won and lost politically. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. (202) 748-8000 democrats. (202) 748-8002 four independent voters. jerry is in huntington beach. caller: good morning. the biggest winners, are the american people. we have c-span and we can watch washington journal every day. i've lessening -- listen to

these trump people, and. i get a kick out of it. one quick thing. very rarely do you come on at the same time. the few times, you worked well together. if you have more air time with you to on together. host: when it is in south carolina. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i want to wish blessings of the season for everyone. in thinking about winners and losers, my thoughts are contradictory. a winner for me has been liz cheney. she put country ahead of party. she showed that she was willing at personal cost to stand up for what she believed in.

that is very rare today in politics. another loser in a way has been the republican party. i think they have lost credibility because they seem to be so lacking in both spiritual and intellectual discernment. i think that's a shame. they are supposed to stand for morals. they seem to have cast them all aside in favor of the candidate. another loser along that line is the evangelical association. i have had people say to me just cashed your beliefs aside. hold your nose and vote for this man. he goes against everything i have been taught to believe. were they lying to us then or

now? i think they suffered because of this decision. i will leave it at that. thank you. host: that was south carolina. in a way to demonstrate how people can disagree over these winners and losers and what defines a winner and loser, she said that lives cheney is a winner of the year. one of the staff writers at the federalist, their breakdown of pix for winners and losers of the year, he said she was a loser of 2021. she started the year of on a crusade.

his view of liz cheney. this is james in san diego. who do you think was the political winner and loser of the year? caller: i believe i am calling not as an independent it is a neutral. i think c-span is the loser this year. i would request that c-span hold itself review on the following issues. how are calls selected? by the area code? by east or west? host: i can help you on that.

they are selected by who calls and when we open the phones. we don't select who calls him. caller: let me continue for moment. today, no calls today, yesterday, the day before from a number of those states. i would request that at the end of each segment, c-span would say how many minutes were devoted to republicans, democrats, independent on the issues of that segment. at the end of the day, how many minutes were on each of those individual parties. i think you could hold yourself and washington journal for a review and find out why the states i mentioned are rarely if

ever selected. thank you very much for your time. host: linda is in minnesota. good morning. caller: good morning. i guess i think the biggest winner would be covid-19. look at how many lives it took and how many more it's going to take rid covid is the winner. in my opinion, the biggest loser is tough. i am going to say the biggest loser is trump and the insurrectionists. that is hands down. host: that was linda in minnesota. you mentioned covid-19. it was last week that dr. fauci was speaking to the national press club. they were talking about the latest on the omicron variant. he was asked about what the end of the pandemic might look like.

he discussed his holiday wish for the season. >> it's not going to be eradication. it's likely not going to be elimination. there is going to be a low level of infection that really doesn't interfere with our way of life, our economy, our ability to move around in society. we will get there. i hope it's in the next several months. i never predict because you can never get it right. we don't know. my christmas wish is obvious, that this thing ends very quickly and we put aside all the ideological nonsense that gets in the weight of our doing a

good public health and get everybody vaccinated and get this thing ended. that's my wish. host: that was dr. anthony fouts he last week. if you want to watch it, you can watch it on her website c-span.org. in our final 40 minutes, continuing with this question asking you to look back on the year that was. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. end up in it voters (202) 748-8002 (202) 748-8002,. this is mason in virginia. caller: as for winner, joe manchin. followed closely by liz cheney. for the loser, this would be years ago. colin powell, he did it colin

powell wrong. host: sticking to 2021, tell me a little more about why you think liz cheney one the year? she lost her leadership position in the republican conference. she did not succeed in her effort to join the impeachment of donald trump. caller: i don't place her as winner of the year. first runner-up. why? she hasn't lost the ability to tell the truth. i'm a republican. i lick everything the republican party does is wonderful and the greatest thing. we make mistakes. host: that was mason in charlottesville. this is stephen western

massachusetts. good morning. caller: happy holidays. my biggest winner, i am going global with this. this has to be the commonest chinese. i checked johns hopkins covid dashboard. china claims under 5000 covid deaths. and about 110,000 cases of covid. this to me is just the magic of commonest totalitarianism. the biggest loser is the rest of the world, the press who is accepting this and not covering this. this is an abomination. how does this go under the radar? i am flabbergasted. my honorable mention has to be the russians.

he has 110,000 troops lined up on the ukrainian border. we've got to start thinking globally. that's all i've got today. host: that is steve. this is lee in detroit. did morning. caller: good morning. i want to say the biggest winner politically is probably joe manchin because he got to dictate policy. even though we elected joe biden. i have a tossup on the biggest loser. one would be the sabotage of the 11th district. black people who keep voting to get civil rights and voting rights and don't seem to get any republicans and the democratic party. that's my thoughts that came to mind. host: another one of those who

mentioned joe manchin in one of these two categories. it was joe manchin last week, talking about his political philosophy and how he is navigating congress this year. >> i remember it when i first got to the senate, the armed services committee, the joint chiefs were there. the chairman was asked a question about the greatest threat to united states. i thought it was going to be other military might. he said the date of the nation will be the greatest threat. -- debt of the nation. now with that, i've never forgotten that lesson. now we are $29 trillion in debt. think about it.

this is what's happening. we are in a 50-50 senate. you are approaching legislation as if you have 60 senators that are democrats. we are all diverse. i'm not a washington democrat. i think i represent the moderate wing of the democratic party that has compassion but reasonability. host: senator joe manchin with the news last week. back to your phone calls as we round out the last half-hour of this program, asking who is the biggest political winner. this is vicki in north carolina. good morning. caller: i would have to say joe biden is my biggest winner. for me, i am going to go to the new york governor andrew cuomo as the loser.

he really lost big. host: why do you think president biden was the winner of the year? caller: he won the big prize. he's the president. host: the you think he is where he expected to be 12 months into his term? caller: not exactly where he expected to be, but he still has three more years. host: that is vicki in north carolina. the biden administration getting some good news on the economic front. u.s. consumers spent at a brisk pace over the shopping season with retail sales rising 8.5% between november 1 and christmas eve. that's according to mastercard spending pulse, which tracks sales as well as a survey based

on cash and checking movements. it's the strongest growth in 17 years. that's part of the headline across the wall street journal this morning. it is slightly below the estimate. compared with 20 sales, it was up 10.7%. those headlines coming after a lot of concerns about supply chain bottlenecks at the beginning last week, president biden spoke about his efforts to address supply chain issues. this is what he had to say. >> this fall, we heard a lot of warnings about supply chain problems leading to a crisis around the holidays. we acted. a lot of recommendations you see on the screen. i wish we were able to do this

in person. we brought together leaders to solve problems. the much predicted crisis didn't occur. packages are moving. gifts are being delivered. shelves are nonempty. experts looked at statistics. this is how many good retailers have on hand and on shelves. it measures homely goods are actually on the shelves to be purchased. retail inventories are up 3% from last year. and the and tories are healthy. on shelf availability was about 91% before the pandemic. today, it's at 90%. 90%. you will find some shelf that is up to because certain gifts are very popular. 90% availability, livery times

are faster than before the pandemic. even as americans have purchased a record amount of goods. this is due to the progress we made at our ports, which are moving historic amounts of goods. after working with our administration, the ports of los angeles and long beach of cut in half the number of containers. this is striking progress since november. right now, the number of containers moving through our ports is higher than ever. it's because we spent up -- when i talked with people running the ports, they agreed to speed up every step in the process. my bipartisan infrastructure law , there are $17 billion to speed up and modernize our ports.

tomorrow, the department of transportation will announce $200 million in grants to ports nationwide. we are making investments in rail as well. we are working to unstick bottlenecks. host: that was president biden from last week talking about efforts to address supply chain bottlenecks. if you want to watch that entire exchange, you can do so on our website. caller: the biggest loser i can find out is joe manchin. the reason i say that is because we are not talking about what joe manchin did with epipen. it was a drug and joe manchin

with all his contacts moved his daughter into the company that makes epipen and she is the ceo. she ended up walking away with millions of dollars from tax breaks. nobody's talking about what he did. on another biggest loser, people should go in and google what politicians are getting -- all kinds of money from lobbyists. they will give you a list of all the politicians that are taking money from lobbyists. it is really corrupting the country. when you look back at this country, congress had to have a meeting to award harry truman a pension because he didn't have a pension coming in. he didn't even own his own house. he had to move into his mother-in-law's house. with all this corruption and money coming into all of these

politicians from the lobbyists, i think they are all losers. host: do you ever go to the website open secrets? caller: is it good? host: it may be a website to check out. they make it their mission to track money in politics. it's run by the center for responsive politics. you can look at campaign donations, lobbying work, it's a website we use often here with a lot of news organizations tracking money in politics. open secrets.org might be something you'd be interested in. caller: thank you very much. that's great. host: good morning. caller: my winner is joe manchin. again. for pain $200,000 for a $700,000

yacht. that is docked in d.c.. the losers are the people of west virginia, senior citizens who have to struggle to get dental care and i care and the children of america. they are the biggest losers. those three sections of people are losers. we senior citizens have to pay taxes, we are on a fixed income. it's hard. you have to put back money just to no one takes your home. he is my winner and the american people are the biggest losers.

thank you. host: this is joe. good morning. caller: i hope you had a very nice christmas. i think that lady was a little bit right. there were no winners at our during this year. nobody. you can't believe -- a report about the supply chain saying biden has done anything. they did not have enough cheesecakes. i know this sounds stupid. there was a cream cheese shortage. there is a candycane shortage. you go to the pharmacies, they don't have all the drugs. they are all over the place. tell me the last time people -- when did they ever mention the bombings, the three pipe bombs that were planted before trump

talked to those people? if they had blown up that monday morning -- tuesday morning, they would have made it look like a barbecue. did anyone ever say anything or report who planted them? the only thing i ever heard was the fbi came out and said they were made with military c4. you can't buy c4 in the supermarket. have you reported anything? you never ask questions about it. host: as far as i know, that is still being investigated. i don't know a lot about it. we have been tracking all of the investigations into the events of january 6.

there is a committee doing that. as we noted, subpoenas are going out from that committee. as we know, the president is expected to mark the events of january 6 in some way next week, waiting for details on exactly what that might look like from the white house. expect to get those details at some point. 80 is in illinois. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i enjoy watching your program. the biggest winners are the politicians will become leaders at the expense of the people of

the united states. that makes the people the biggest losers. that's my comment. host: robert is in oregon. good morning. caller: i will be quick. i think john durham, the investigator for the fbi, he is the biggest winner. he displays whether he has any pressure put on them or not. he is continued at a slow and steady investigation. i consider him the greatest winner. as far as losers, losers of the -- politicians look the other

way as far as the reverence for the rule of law. from the district attorney to the mayor, they look the other way when a riot is going on. i don't care what your political stripe is. society can only go along with that exhibit of anarchy. we have it here. they are the losers. that's my message. host: going back to january 6 and the previous caller questions about the pipe bomb investigation. this is the latest from the fbi back in the fall. the field office on september 8 released information and video regarding the suspect.

the new information includes a map that highlights the route the suspect walked while placing the two bombs on january 5 between 7:30 p.m. and 8:30 p.m. the new video footage released an effort to generate more information about who might have done that. anyone who has information about that, the fbi is looking into those pipe bombs. that's the latest from the fbi field office that we were able to grab. paul, good morning. caller: good morning. the biggest loser is joe biden. allowing the insurgency in afghanistan to take over.

also, i would rate him as the worst president in my lifetime. the biggest winner is joe manchin who has stopped the far left from destroying our country. host: what do you think when it comes to the afghanistan withdrawal? how much impact will that have when joe biden is expected to seek reelection? caller: i don't see -- looks like we've got some interference. host: i can still hear you. caller: i think the independent voters, a lot of people went against trump. i think the democrats can't run the country. i think we will see a change back to the right. host: that is paul in south

carolina. bringing viewers back to august 31, this was the address from the white house on the u.s. withdrawal from afghanistan. >> last night, the united states ended 20 years of war in afghanistan. the longest war in american history. we completed one of the biggest air lifts in history with more than 120,000 people evacuated to safety. that number is double what most experts thought possible. no nation has ever done anything like it in history. only the event states had the capacity and ability to do it. the extraordinary success of this is due to the incredible skill and selfless courage of the united states military and our diplomats.

they risk their lives to get american citizens, afghans who helped us, citizens of our allies and partners and others on board planes and out of the country. they did it facing a crush of enormous crowds. they did it knowing why shifts was lurking in the midst of those crowds. the women and men their job and did it well. risking their lives not for professional gain, but to serve others. not in a mission of war, a mission of mercy. 20 servicemembers were wounded. 13 heroes gave their lives. i was just at dover air force base for the dignified transfer.

we'll them and their families a debt of gratitude we can never repay. in april, i made the decision to end this war. as part of that decision, we set the date of august 31 for troops to withdraw. the assumption was more than 300,000 afghan security forces that we had trained over the past two decades and equipped would be a strong adversary in their civil war. that assumption that the afghan government would hold on for time beyond military drawdown turned out not to be accurate. host: president biden from august this year. back to your phone calls. this is david in new york. good morning. caller: i wanted to say happy

holidays and merry christmas. my honest answer is there were no winners or losers when it comes to partisan politics. it creates division. that's what we've seen. there has to be a lot done to unify the country. i hope we can get there. we are all americans. none of us are enemies. we have different visions of what our country should look like. we need to find a way to meet in the middle, come to some common ground so that we can solve the problems of today. there is no political winner or loser when it comes to partisan division. host: connie in pennsylvania. good morning. caller: good morning. happy new year.

i have three winners and two losers. the first winner is myself. i found c-span. i have become engaged. engaged in local politics as well as federal politics as well as global. thanks to c-span for that. i am encouraging my friends because of this. that's number one. host: thank you for that. caller: the second winner would be the repeated criminals that are left out of jail without bail. i'm astounded and stand by the da's, the governors. my third winner are these 2

million plus illegals crossing the southern border. this has gone on and on. there are a lot of people hurt because of this. this is a beautiful country. god has blessed us tremendously because of the aid we provide for others. we have a pathway to citizenship. that pathway should be utilized. my losers, the victims of the crimes. these repeat criminals, these illegal aliens there crossing. my second loser is the american citizens and the afghans that helped us. i hear from other networks that they are still retrieving

american citizens and those that helped us. these are retired military individuals. happy new year. merry christmas to all. thanks again. host: this is tom in midway, utah. good morning. caller: good morning. the biggest winner is the american people. they have elected a socialist, communist. now we see what they are doing to us. they are ruining the country. every democrat that voted for joe biden is responsible for all the deaths come across the border in the form of drugs, gangs, covid.

how can you say you care about people and then leave the borders open. can you answer me that? the biggest winners are the american people. i'm an independent. i used to be a democrat. host: to maryland, tom good morning. caller: i think one of the biggest winners are the big-box stores. i was paying $.47 for milk. that was two months ago. now it's up to $1.47. i don't think we are importing

milk. that's why i think they are using the covid and everything to move up prices and increase their margins. thank you. host: just under 10 minutes left. we continue to take your calls on this idea of the biggest political winners and losers. i did want to note that it is authors week. we will continue on this program tomorrow. we are featuring authors and top political thinkers from across the spectrum. we will talk with economist and activist on her book the sum of us. on wednesday, it is andrew yang with his book forward. on thursday, the former fda

commissioner on his book. on friday, it is the book red white and black. you can watch all week long. now, until the program ends, we will finish with your phone calls. the political winners and losers. go ahead. caller: thank you. the big loser is the american people. i have two big winners. one is the american people because the swamp has been exposed. number two is president trump. he will run for congress and become speaker. he will impeach biden and harris

and become president. he will be reelected the first president to serve nine years. thank you very much. host: good morning. caller: i think the biggest winner is covid and the biggest loser is the earth. host: why is the earth the biggest loser? caller: climate change. host: anything else you want to add? caller: that's it. host: good morning. caller: the biggest winner is the united states of america for putting in joe biden and getting rid of a man who made fun of a cerebral palsy victim and ridiculed handicapped people. he ended up getting elected anyway. a pitiful fool we finally got rid of.

host: we are having this conversation when many winners and losers come out. here is a list from the political magazine city and state new york, looking at the winners and losers of 2021. their top winner was eric adams, the mayor elect of new york city. he was the focus of a column in the new york times. it's the headline on that piece. they write: there is eric adams there. this is charles in new york. good morning.

you are next. caller: good morning thank you for taking my call. the biggest winners are the people who get vaccinated. the biggest losers are the people who don't get vaccinated. i'm a microbiologist. i teach at a major medical school. it's my job to educate future physicians. they impart that knowledge to their patients. this is the problem that we have, people have decided not to accept the scientific basis for getting vaccinated. i wish people would look closely at this, there are plenty of good articles that will describe in great detail on the reasons for getting vaccinated. it goes back to why we get vaccinated. there are childhood vaccines that we have for our children. it's a requirement to get into school. it's a very important issue that

the -- i don't want to call them losers. they just don't understand the basis for getting vaccinated. host: princeton, missouri. good morning. caller: i am out of butler, missouri. my biggest winner and loser is joe biden. he has screwed our country up so bad. he put everybody first except the american people. he didn't even get all of our people. he lied. our borders are wide open. the man stumbles. he can't even remember yesterday hardly. he can't get through a speech without stumbling. he needs to be impeached. host: a few of your comments from social media. you've been watching and tweeting and commenting on

facebook. neil in pennsylvania. morning. you are next. caller: good morning. the biggest losers are these idiots who continue to follow trump and worship donald trump. a horrible year, there are tens of millions of them. they are just fanatical about trump. they are the biggest losers of this year. host: do you have a pic for political winner of the year? caller: certainly joe biden.

thank god we got rid of trump and got somebody in there with intelligence. trump has zero. joe biden has everything it takes to be president. host: diane in florida. good morning. caller: good morning. i think the biggest winner is liz cheney. she is a woman that had to go up against a lot of men that are trying to pull her down. she stood her ground. the biggest loser because a house divided against itself cannot stand, i would think it is america. thank you. host: that was our last caller. we will be back here tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern and 4:00 a.m. pacific. in the meantime, have a great day.

♪ announcer: c-span is your unfiltered view of government. funded by these television companies and more, including charter communications. >> broadband is a source of empowerment. that's why charter has invested billions, building infrastructure, upgrading technology, empowering opportunity in communities big and small. charter is connecting us. announcer: charter communications supports c-span as a public service, along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. ♪

announcer: a panel of military officials, legal experts and advocates testified before the senate judiciary committee about the ongoing operation of the military prison at guantanamo bay. witnesses talked about legal rights for detainees, national security concerns, and closure for the families of the victims of 9/11. watch tonight at 9 p.m. eastern on c-span, online at c-span.org, or on c-span nw, our new video app -- c-span now, our new video app . >> c-span now. access top highlights. listen to c-span radio and discover new podcasts for free. download c-span now today. announcer: president biden this morning held a virtual meeting with some of the nation's governors to discuss