the issues at play during the war. >> there were two russian-american soldiers at fort hunt. they were dressed in red army uniforms. they were conspicuous. if an interrogator thought somebody was not forthcoming with information, they would call in one of these two fellas. they would say you don't want to talk to us, how about if ivan takes you to the soviet union. maybe they would like to hear what you have to say. that worked incredibly well both at fort hunt and in europe. >> robert sutton and his book nazis on the potomac tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span's q&a. you can listen to q&a on our new c-span now app.

♪ host: good morning and welcome to "washington journal." pope francis talked about the use of prisons and the state of incarcerations here in the united states. there are more than 2 million people in jail or prison in the united states. spending on prisons in the united states is continuing to skyrocket. lawmakers, including president joe biden, are talking about making changes. our question to you this morning -- what is your view of the u.s. prison system. we will open up regional lines for this discussion. if you are in the eastern or central time zones, your number is (202) 748-8000. if you are in the mountain or pacific time zones, your number

is (202) 748-8001. and if you have experience with the prison system, whether you have been incarcerated, have a relative who is incarcerated, or work in the prison system, we want to know your opinion at (202) 748-8002. you can always text us at (202) 748-8003, and we are always reading on social media on facebook at facebook.com/c-span, on twitter at @cspanwj. hope francis spoke out earlier this week about prisons around the world and sparked a discussion for many people about the state of incarceration here and in other places around the world. here is a story that was written by abc news.com that talks about

what the pope said. pope francis issued a plea on behalf of prison inmates wednesday, saying they should never be deprived of hope and always be given the opportunity to redeem themselves. in remarks at his weekly vatican, he told the faithful we risk being present and injustice that doesn't allow people to easily get back up and confuses redemption with punishment. he said it is right for them to pay for their mistakes but even more right to be able to redeem themselves. that comes from the abc news story with pope francis speaking out earlier this week on incarceration and ensuring there can't be no window of hope for rehabilitation.

lawmakers talking about the prison system with president joe biden about his criminal justice reform issues. here is a portion of what he had to say. [video clip] pres. biden: criminal justice reform, we need it from top to bottom. we need to understand the experience of the people where they come from. that is why i appointed more black women to the bench and circuit court and public defenders to the bench than any administration in history. the previous record was three black women in eight years and we confirm for in less than eight months. there are lawyers who will be in charge to understand real people and the needs of people. on police reform, i share the frustration and i know the george floyd justice in policing

act. it has not been passed in the senate, but the fight is not over. we made changes to the law enforcement policy that i have the ability to do with a stroke of the pen. restricting no-knock warrants, requiring agents to wear and activate cameras and ending the use of private prisons. we are seeking the harshest penalties. we are looking into the misconduct in phoenix, louisville, new york. we are just getting started. this administration will continue to fight for meaningful police reform in congress through additional executive actions. you will be our next generation of elected officials, chief -- police chiefs. host: let's look at information

about the prison system here in the united states to set this discussion. it is said there are more than 2 million people incarcerated in either jailed or prisons around the united states and also said that the united states has the top rate of incarceration of any country in the world. here are some statistics. as you can see, the rates per 100,000 people, the united states imprisons 630 nine people per 100,000, topping companies like -- countries like brazil and russia. the united states has the larger rate of incarceration than any other country in the world right now. we want to know from you what you think about the state of the prison system in the united states. let's start with lawrence who is

calling from yancy bell, north carolina -- yancy ville, north carolina. good morning. caller: i spent time in the prison system. it is truly broken. i was in the state of virginia and they have different laws in the commonwealth and different bylaws. the prison system is truly bad. the guards, everything that is trying to be done is opposition towards everything. i am not saying that people don't deserve to be locked up, but there is a better way that you can revamp the system so it will work so people will be rehabed and not have to struggle drug addiction and then be

incarcerated for so long. host: do you feel like you were rehabilitated in prison or was that wasted time for you? caller: it was a waste of time, well, i won't say waste of time because i applied my time and got my education but i did that on my own. half the people in prison are not afforded to get the education, and they are put in there like animals. the families have to take care of them. the family has to send you money for the phone and commissary because the food is so bad you cannot live off of it. you asked me to i feel like i was rehabilitated i feel like i rehabilitated myself because of a change in me and not the prison system. host:'s talk to dana calling from flint, michigan. good morning.

caller: i agree with the young gentleman before me, except i do leave that prisons do offer viable means to rehabilitate and to rehabilitate yourself. i was a corrections officer and i enjoyed my job there it was the best job i've ever had. if you look at it mindfully, it can be very rewarding. i strongly suggest that people who are planning on committing crimes, they also have lethal execution and offering officers to be judge, jury, and executioner. don't think that if you commit a crime you are going to get three meals and health care and all

that and it will be smooth sailing. people have done unfortunate things in -- and are in prison. host: do you think they came out of prison better than they were? do you see any type of rehabilitation? caller: i really do. i have seen it. i have had some of my residents tell me, hey officer, i will be back in a month because my family don't want me. i will have a place to stay. it is not throwing in your face but letting you know they don't have a place to go p when they get out they need to get education, training, moral, ethics, get a skilled trade and whatever you can. we need to incentivize people to take birth control very seriously. host: the things you were talking about, getting an

education and morals, as any of that helping? caller: there are caseworkers and counselors. the prison system is so overcrowded. i have my degree in psychology and sometimes when i had downtime i would counsel my inmates. some of the officers would say you are destroying the job security. i said, this is never going to be a job you have to worry about losing. i do it with love. you made a mistake, let's not do it again. they know people on the outside. be kind and loving what you do and everybody will win. host: a study from pew research center says while the united states has more than 2.1 million people in prison, the actual

incarceration rate is dropping in the united states. i will bring this study to you. the u.s. incarceration rate fell in 2019 to the lowest level since 1995 according to recently published data from the justice arm of the department of justice. the united states incarcerates a larger share of its population than any other country for which data is available. at the end of 2019, there were just under 2.1 million people behind bars in the united states, including 1.4 3 million under the jurisdiction of federal and state prisons and roughly 750,000 in the custody of locally run jails. that amounts to an incarceration rate of 810 present or jailed inmate for every 100,000 adults 18 and older. the incarceration rate peaked at

1000 inmates per 100,000 adults between 2006 and 2008. it has declined steadily since then and at the end of 2019 was at the same level as in 1995. 810 per 100,000 adults. that comes from the pew research center. we want to know from you -- what is your experience with the prison system? let's talk to joseph calling from boston, massachusetts. good morning. caller: good morning, c-span. i hate to use the race card, but if you go back to slavery and the emancipation proclamation, what it is is america is on racism and anything that seemed to benefit people they don't

want. and because of that, america has 800,000 but men incarcerated. we don't have universal health care, it is the same concept because it would benefit black people. just like newt gingrich signed the welfare reform act. we have to get rid of the racism. host: let's go to veronica calling from georgia. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead, veronica. caller: i am calling because i

have a brother who has been in prison since 2008 and is still in prison. my brother has been in lockdown because he filed a complaint against the government. as long as they can get a letter out, they can have somebody outside listening and waiting for them to come home. i have a son who is 16 when he got incarcerated. he is 26 now. the only thing he tells me is that he thinks god that she thanks god because -- he thanks god because he believes it saved his life.

i was locked up four times for the same crime. i sent papers so that i could come home but it saved me from 40 years of imprisonment. they charged me with aggravated assault which it should have been self-defense. that was 10 years ago. i am 47 years old now. the gentleman was 180 pounds, five feet 11 inches. i was a hundred and 30 pounds. that she was 130 pounds -- i was 130 pounds, how could i hurt him. we were at a barbecue. when the gentleman fell, i went

to check on his blood. they took over buddy's statement on the scene. after they did that they waited two weeks to come and pick me up -- they took everybody's statement on the scene. after they did that, they waited two weeks to come and pick me up. they locked me up three times again for the same crime. host: friday in front of congress, a home confinement woman was home due to the covid-19 pandemic. here is what she said. >> i send out for a class which was being held in a building.

i didn't know it had gps monitoring as a security measure. so my gps lost the signal. while i was in the class my phone was turned off and the halfway house try to call me and then they pinged my ankle. i didn't hear either. i was told i was out of touch for four hours. i was told to pack a bag and return to the halfway house. i was questioned and told to sign a statement that i could go home. my attorney has to be present at that hearing. while i was being questioned they refused her request. the day after i signed the statement, i wasn't sent home. instead a marshal came to the halfway house and arrested me. they put me in a d.c. jail on

june 16 and told my attorney they would expedite my return to a federal corrections facility to complete my sentence. as awful as it was, i was luckier than most. my family was devastated and sprang into action and so did the organizations i have been working with. the media picked up the story and it struck a nerve with the public. organizations like the maryland justice project allowed me to get home. people were outraged that during a pandemic that they sent me, a 75-year-old cancer survivor to jail because i attended a computer class in the hope of finding a paid job. host: let's go back to phone lines and talk to marilyn

calling from long branch, new jersey. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: i have a 41-year-old son now was incarcerated for 16 years. one of my son's friends got killed and going through court was terrifying. he went to court and they put it on him. they gave him 40 something years to life and then he went in front of the appellate division and they went through his case again and found a lot of things that were wrong so he ended up with 16 years. for 16 years, i self and his daughter who was 2 -- myself and his daughter who was to at the time went to every prison he was

at fort visits. every prison -- was at for visits. we were treated like prisoners. they really treat the families bad. we had to stand out in the rain, get searched with dogs, get turned away. we had to visit the way they wanted us to visit. we had our visits cut short. i had to put money on phones. i have had to put money on books . my son is now out and he has ptsd so bad, he tried to apply for social security disability and they denied him three times, telling him that he can work,

people with his situation can work, which is not so. my son hallucinates and it hurts my heart and bothers me and scares me have two death because i'm thinking if he goes out there and has an episode that he is going to shot -- going to get shot. host: let's talk to john who is calling from brentwood, tennessee. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. saying the things i am getting ready to say out of my personal experience. i spent time in arkansas in the federal prison there. i am a white male in my experience there was very good. i deserve what i got. i was wrong.

the couple things that i would like to share is that while i was incarcerated we got to experience trump's first step act. a lot of people got early release and had extenuating circumstances, and you would not believe the number of people who benefited from that, but also we had programs -- we had a program that was a modified therapeutic community for people who had drug issues, which i participated in. it was a nine month program and i got lucky and got to stay in the program for almost 19 months. when you talk about prison reform and things that can help the american prisoner, these

programs are in there, but you would be surprised at the number of people that refuse to do it. they thought it was beneath them , if you go through that program , you can get up to 12 months off of your sentence. there are a lot of good programs. they had a lot of really sophisticated type learning that i was very shocked, and to be honest, it saved my life. host: john from tennessee just brought up the first step act, which i want to bring more information to you right now about. the first step act was signed by former president trump in december 2018. under that law now, it reduces

mandatory sentencing guidelines for certain drug felonies, allows the judge greater latitude in sentencing nonviolent drug offenders, induces mandatory minimum sentences in some cases, makes retroactive the fair sentencing act of 2010 and expand present employment programs. all of that is effective in the united states because drug offenses are the largest area of incarceration in the united states right now according to the bureau of prisons. you are going to see on screen the statistics of people in prison in the united states. we see here that drug offenses make up 45.6% of prison sentences and inmates in the united states, while the next highest number would be weapons explosives and arson.

more than double of that is drug offenses, by far the number of inmates in prison in the united states are imprisoned because of drug offenses, according to the federal bureau of prisons. once again, we want to know what your experience is in the prison system in the united states, whether you have been incarcerated, you have relatives who are incarcerated, or you worked in the prison system. let's talk to steve who is calling from fort pierce, florida. good morning. caller: good morning. good to talk to you. they are saying fax that we have to consider when we -- facts that we have to consider when we talk about prison. we have free will. free will has consequences. we have to understand that. number two, criminal behavior is criminal behavior.

that means there are consequences for criminal behavior. our prison system is a system that is better than any other place in the world, i tell you. would you rather be in a prison in the united states or be in a prison in some cases, situations are better than being out on the streets. drug offenses, all the drugs that are used is a reflection of society. the last point i am making is that if the progressives and liberals think they have an idea of how to reform the prisons to get the gangs out of prison, take repeat offenders, why don't they open up their houses and

their own families for these prisoners. let them come into their house and rehabilitate them. host: let's go to david who is calling from atlanta, georgia. good morning. caller: yes, good morning. i was confused by the last caller. the u.s. prison system in our country that i have been dealing with -- i have a nephew that was incarcerated for more than 17 years, schizophrenic. he has always been in and out since he was a kid, but he never got treatment in the prison system. i don't see where individuals can look at our system and say that it is a good system. i noticed the numbers that you were calling off as far as the number of people incarcerated in what they were, but the one thing that has not been

mentioned about the people who are now on probation, they have to pay for the probation and everything in the court system. so you have people who don't really have income and they are forcing to have to pay these fees, so they go back to prison. i just don't see how that adds up to being a good system. they are not really taught or given any skills. it is nice to hear the gentleman called in before and said he went to a system, and that is a good thing, but for the majority of inmates that are there, they have free will but the choices that they made, they are not bad people. you can't condemn somebody for a bad choice but there is not really any rehabilitation in the prison systems, not that i can say. host: let's talk to michael who is calling from walterboro,

south carolina. good morning. caller: good morning. the previous color, not the last, but anybody -- the previous caller come in, but anybody who would say prison is better and who would prefer that to be homeless and in the street, then you don't know anything about a prison. it is degrading and dehumanizing. prison is degrading, dehumanizing, and for what? 45% of the people are in for drug. that is something intentionally set towards our community. something put upon us. we did not bring drugs in. we do not bring in cocaine. it is something you put upon us and we get punished for it. it is just like slavery.

you did not have 45% of the people in jail, that many black people in jail. they were all commodities so they had to stay out of jail. nobody was going to jail like this. it is something somebody is doing to us on purpose and they need to stop because it is wrong. host: the new york times has a story that talks about federal resins -- prisoners who will soon be released under former president trump's act. here is a story from the new york times. thousands of federal inmates will be eligible release this week under a rule the justice department published thursday that allows more people to participate in a program that allows prisoners to earn shorter jail terms. the federal bureau of prisons has began transferring illegible inmates to -- illegible inmates to supervised release programs

or home confinement. the decision last month that well but ole well-behaved inmates released home during the pandemic would not have to return to prison is a major step towards overhauling and shrinking the federal prison system that many democrats and republicans consider costly and unfair. the guidelines affect how the justice department and the bureau of prisons carry out the first act, the sweeping bipartisan criminal justice legislation enacted in 2018 under the trump administration that expands job-training and other efforts aimed at reducing recidivism, expands early release programs, and modifies sentencing laws. thousands of federal inmates will become eligible for release under the first step act soon according to this story from the new york times. let's talk to earl calling from all be in -- all beyond --al

bion, idaho. caller: i grew up in a family that taught work ethic from the time i was young. with those ethics i helped other people in my community, etc.. today, we have outsourced jobs out of the country. there is a lack of experience there because of the lack of jobs in the country to bring pride and i think that a lot of the problems we need to solve today would be cured if we brought back jobs here to our own home country. host: let's talk to anthony calling from cocoa beach, florida. good morning. caller: good morning, sir, how are you? host: i am fine. go ahead anthony.

caller: seven years in the system, basically, the system is broken and it has been broken for 37 years. bill reform will not help. i did -- they'll reform will not help. i don't think preventative detention should be in the books here. people housed in jail have no place to go, most of them. most of them are homeless because of drugs. drugs are brought in the country and it is a shame. the drug problem is a major problem. people should not be detained in jail because they are doing drugs or selling drugs. they should legalize most of it and forget about it because it is messing up the whole system. keep the jails for the criminals and the real bad people. the drugs kill people, but the fact is, that is not the problem. the problem is that somebody is

allowing them to come into the country and we do not know who. it is out of my racket. what i have seen is a lot of good people housed in jail because they touched drugs and it ruined their whole career and their whole life and everything else area -- everything else. major drug problems cause corruption of the whole country. drugs have to be eradicated. host: at a hearing looking at the juvenile justice system legislators heard from an incarcerated youth from washington state who offered thoughts on how to change the system. here is a portion of his testimony from last may. >> helping youth define hope in the environment. we are hoping a flower blooms in the darkroom. we have to be the light and not the darkroom that prevents growth.

this happens through understanding generational trauma. understanding that duty to the individual does not end upon release. what i feel is very important is actually talking to youth who are incarcerated. those who enter the system often leave the system as legal adults. not knowing how to function in society is often a reason for recidivism. we need to offer them real help. for youth with no money we need to get them all financial -- help financially. this means financial literacy programs and jobs where they can learn money -- are in money and learn how to manage it. this means housing. the system does a good job at holding those accountable for their actions, but what about rehabilitation and reentry? for the youth, one thing is

clear. the system does not care about you. i believe in keeping youth from the adult system. i have seen the positive impact of extending the age a youth is able to spend in the juvenile system. they are able to make the best of the opportunities offered in the juvenile system until they are 25, like going to a community basement program instead of an adult prison where recidivism rates are tripled once you walk through the doors. by keeping youth out of the adult system we offer better outcomes for their future. host: let's see what some social media followers are saying about the u.s. prison system added their experiences with it. here is one post from facebook that says needs reform, a serious one. too many low-level crimes get long sentences and too many high-level ones get slaps on the wrist.

here is a tweet that says, just letting people out with no services to get them back to society makes no sense. investment in aftercare should be profitable. another tweet says prison systems in the u.s. are to make money for the rich and to keep people working. other than violent crimes, we should release many of the inmates. another tweet says, our prison system is horrible. it is cruel and needs to be cleaned up. no one should have their life endangered in their punishment. i am very shocked at how it is run. another tweet says there are three things that should be -- that should not be for profit, prisons, schools, and health care. one last tweet says, our prison system is as racist as it gets. young people of color are kept there for years for my note --

minor drug possession while the biggest criminals in our government walk around scot-free. it is about money. we want to know your view of the u.s. prison system. let's talk to joe calling from columbia, south carolina. good morning. caller: the morning. i will start with this. all of the conversations i have been hearing since i have been watching you this morning, nobody ever mentions god. god can keep you out of prison. god can guide you in the way you need to go. nobody ever says that. nobody ever talks about it. if you do the crime you have to do the time. i think there should be more presents. -- prisons. old ladies cannot walk down the street at night. you have to put your kids in the house at night because somebody will shoot them. ask god to help you.

get on your knees and pray. i have not heard anybody call this morning about putting trust in the lord jesus christ to get you through anything that you can go through. host: let's talk to joann: from taylor, michigan. good morning. caller: i have a son in prison. the kind of they have they put people in there that has been involved with someone that did something. you know, they have them on. you go to jail for life like they do and i do not think that is right. i think they should change the system. host: let's go to william from cleveland, ohio. good morning.

caller: the system is not broken. the system is working perfect. the system has been put there for profit. if you take the profit out of the system, well then, you would not have as many people incarcerated. so, the system is working perfect. host: there are some lawmakers who did not like the first step act as proposed by president trump and passed by congress. at a speech of the manhattan institute arkansas republican senator tom cotton spoke out against the weakening of criminal sentencing laws. here is a portion from his speech from last may. rep. grothman: -- sen. cotton: governors and mayors created sanctuary jurisdictions that shielded criminal aliens from prosecution. many states across the nation naïvely began to growth -- close

presents and loosen sentencing requirements and states and cities have undermined our cash bail system with predictable consequences. in 2019, the new york slate legislator -- state legislator passed the most progressive cash bail legislation in the country and by february 2020, crime in new york city skyrocketed by 22.5%. criminals released from custody without bail went on to commit 800 new crimes including rape, robbery, and murder. after seeing the self-inflicted devastation on their own state, even the liberals in albany admitted the policy was a mistake and rushed to revoke their law. this did not stop the government of illinois -- the governor of illinois. he signed a lot to end all cash bail in the state by 2023.

as if cap -- crime in chicago was not already bad enough. it is not billionaires like governor pritzker who will suffer the consequences of his mistakes. other states are still considering and implementing this insane policy. it will inevitably increase crime just as it did in new york. but, these state and local changes are not the only criminal leniency policies adopted in the last few years. in a grave bipartisan mistake progress past the first step act with 87 votes in the u.s. senate. i led the opposition of that bill and i was one of only 12 senators who opposed it. host: let's get back to our phone lines and talk to shane: from lakewood, california -- shane calling from lakewood, california. caller: i was incarcerated in l.a. county for 45 days.

it opened my eyes to a lot of things. first, it is really broken. you know, yeah, the gangs do run the jails for the most part. what, there is part between gang leaders and corrections officers. after running -- getting out i was on probation and i found it hard to find a job. one of the things is that on the application you have to check the box that says, are you a felon? when you check that box that says you are a felon, even though it does not automatically disqualify you, employers look at that and do not want to hire you. so guys have to go out there and commit crimes to make that money to pay off their probation, to pay off the court fees. so we need to do something to fix the whole system. host: let's talk to angela from

indianapolis, indiana. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i have a loved one who currently is serving time in a georgia state prison. this individual reached out to me almost five years ago and i have been an advocate trying to get word out anyone and everyone i can in regards to the horrendous conditions that exist inside the georgia state prisons. this is state prison, not federal. right now the department of justice is investigating georgia state prisons. which, you have not mentioned yet on your program. there have many news reports from the atlanta journal-constitution in regards to the present conditions in that state.

the lack of proper medical care. mental health care. and, i just wanted to get the word out. this individual that i have been trying to assist with advocating for, this message, i have seen emails of the chain of command about the conditions. inmate upon inmate violence. short staff issues. lack of guards. proper supervision, lack of proper supervision. it just permeates through the system. i have said emails. i have sent -- i have sent emails. i have sent letters. this individual has sent me letters that i have made copies of that detail all the things going on inside. i have send those to news media

organization, the southern center for human rights, the georgia naacp, the innocence project, you name it. it all seems to be to no avail. host: let's talk to alan calling from georgia. good morning. caller: i did a ride along with the apv. i would like to address the last two callers. if you look at who is actually convicting these people and sending them in it is the big liberal systems like the fulton county prison system in georgia. go look at the da's actually locked up a big majority of the people, klobuchar, eric sewall, and our vice president kamala harris all locked up minorities. i think, allah -- i think

kabbalah -- kabbalah harris -- kamala harris. now, they are letting everybody go free. but all the big major error i as -- areas called about the flooded. fulton county is totally controlled. ellie is the same way. -- l.a. is the same way. it is totally controlled by liberals putting people away for minor charges and people for other crimes go unpunished. if you go on a ride along which the police will let you do, i used to be anti-police until i went on a ride along and saw actually what occurs. the police ask a simple question and they just explode on them. host: the bureau of prisons has a chart up now that talks about

the race of inmates in the united states. according to the bureau of prisons, which from their data from january 15 of this year, 57.8% of people in prison in the u.s. are white. 38.2% of people in prison are black. 2.5% of people in prison are native american. and 1.5% of people in prison our agent. -- are asian. this comes from the bureau of prisons statistic of people in prison in the united states. let's go back to our phone lines and talk about -- talk to chantel calling from franklin, louisiana. good morning. caller: good morning. it was interesting to me because

my husband that is doing time in the st. mary parish louisiana prison, it was interesting because the first time he did 20 years behind one piece of crack rock. ok, they gave him 40. he got off her good time. -- for good time. then he ended up back in the system following a mutual friend who went to someone's house and brought tools from someone living there but the house was under construction so he had ended up with a burglary charge. they put the burglary charge on him. so, this is what i am looking at that the friend, he is out. they had the same parole time. he is still in. he has been in four years already on the charge and he had

eight left on parole so we are trying to figure out why doc is not giving him his credit for his time served. when i called and talked to the head, which i will not call the name of the headboard of doc, he said he was going to give him his credit for time served and he would end up getting his rap sheet diminished. they said they were not giving it to him and flattened it out in tears. september the 26, 2009. so i am kind of stuck. i do not know which way to go from there. but y'all are saying you will give him his credit and y'all did not. he has been sitting on st. mary parish prison system. he has attracted all kinds of medical problems. it is like it is just on a standstill. i don't know what it go from there.

host: at a sentencing hearing, at a congressional hearing looking at crack cocaine sentencing laws, senators hold about the disparities from the acting director of national drug control policy regina lavelle. here is a portion of her testimony from last june. >> sentencing disparities are not based on sound scientific evidence. we have a system under which the same offense, distribution of cocaine, results in radically different sentences depending on the form of cocaine even though both formulations affect the brain the same way. research suggests the 100 one sentencing disparity under the antidrug abuse act did not release in decreased crack cocaine use. similarly the reduction of the mandatory just -- sentencing disparity under the fair sentencing act was not associated with an increase in crack cocaine use. however, data published by the u.s. sentencing commission has

shown a higher percentage of black americans are convicted in federal court for crack pain offenses versus powder cocaine offenses and substantially longer sentence length for comparable offenses. under the original is fairly t -- disparity a five year minimum would be triggered by trafficking five grams of track -- of crack. the same would be triggered if somebody trafficked 500 grams of powder cocaine. any amount of crack cocaine over five grams incurred a five year minimum. there was no corresponding minimum for powder cocaine. on average black americans were incarcerated for nonviolent offenses for almost the same length of time as white americans who committed violent ovitz is. in 2010 congress took the important step to reduce the disparity from 18 to one.

because of the disparity, the convictions led to present time far longer than they would have been for equivalent amounts of powder cocaine. host: let's talk to david calling from seattle, washington. david, good morning. caller: can you hear me? host: we can. go ahead. caller: what i would like to say first of all is that my name is dave myers. you can look me up on the internet a big white lie. that is my family story. what i just heard here was very very on point. we have a system in this country that is based on the color of your skin. black americans are, number one, we start out under the thumb of

the system. and, we are continually profiled by these systems. this creates an uneven onus on black people to act correct. so, when we are --, i mean, i have never been convicted of a felony but i have been trespassed from a lot of coffee places where i just wanted to stand and be warm when it is cold in seattle when i am homeless. i am not homeless now, but i am dealing with the system that has criminalized me because i have a neighbor who happens to be black who pulls a gun on me and then claims that i threatened him. so i had to go into the county jail for three weeks and i just got out. i am trying, i have court next

week, and, further down the line, to deal with these so-called trumped up charges. which, i have good representation. but, i have to deal with this because the system looked at me as a biracial black man and immediately assumed that i was guilty and put me in handcuffs at my own place of residence. excuse me. enter me away. host: -- and took me away. host: let's go to joe calling from supply, north carolina. caller: i am originally from washington, d.c.. i will give you some of the origins of the laws. in 1994, the crime bill written by joe biden signed into law by bill clinton was responsible for

what you said, the five-year five grams. 95, bill clinton and conquerors -- congress enact a law that is now the first privatized prison in the federal system. in 96, he signs the antiterrorism action that limits the appeals from federal prison. so, you are getting a lot of people locked up with these laws in 94. you lock a lot of them up in 94. in 95, you privatized so it becomes for profit. in 96 you limit their ability to get out through appeals. in 1997, the emergency powers act is signed by the d.c. council which allowed the

federal bureau of prisons to take over the prisoners and most of them went to private prisons. all the while, in 90, eric holder was the u.s. attorney. he was one of the most abusive u.s. attorneys d.c. has ever seen. what i will show you about each one of these individuals involved in this gets rewarded. in 2008, 2009, barack obama becomes president. he takes joe biden to be his vp. it his reward. -- that is his reward. eric holder comes the first black attorney general. that is his reward. january, 2009, obama bailed out the financial institutions. wells fargo took billions of dollars and put it back into the private prisons and invested it

in private prisons. then you fast-forward to this last election. out of all the democrats on the stage, the two in office now, harris and biden, are responsible by far for incarcerating more black and brown people than anyone on the stage. the 1994 crime bill was responsible for incarcerating more african-americans than any u.s. law ever enacted in history. host: we would like to thank all our callers who called in for that first segment. coming up, we will talk about the crisis in russia with former u.s. ambassador to the ukraine john herbst the senior director of the atlantic council eurasia center, and laser -- later katrina vanden heuvel editorial director and publisher of the nation magazine joins us to talk about russia and president biden's first year in office.

stick with us. we will be right back. >> during the final three years of world war ii italy's 3000 nazis were detained and interrogated at fort hunt a top-secret military intelligence facility along the pelvic river near washington, d.c.. q&a, robert sutton, the former chief historian of the national park service and author of the book nazis on the potomac talks about fort hunt in the important role it played during the war. >> there were two russian-american soldiers that were dressed in red army uniforms. they were conspicuous throughout the fourth. if an interrogator thought someone was being cagey and not forthcoming with information they would call in one of these two fellows and they would say, oh, you do not want to talk to us?

how about if i've been here takes you to the soviet union. maybe they would like to hear what you have to say. that worked incredibly well both at fort hunt and in europe. >> robert sutton and his book nazis on the potomac at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span's q and a. you can listen to q and a and all our podcasts on our new c-span now app. >> weekends on book tv, leading authors talking about their latest nonfiction books. vanderbilt university professor michael eric dyson examines the impact of black culture and politics on the u.s. with his book entertaining race: performing blackness in america. on afterwards, a theoretical physicist talks about his book emotional: how feelings shape our thinking interviewed by

northeastern university professor lisa barrett. watch book tv every weekend and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at book tv.org. >> get c-span on the go. watch as the day's biggest political events live or on-demand anytime, anywhere on our new mobile video app. c-span now. access top highlights. this in the c-span radio and discover new part caps off are free. download c-span now today. washington journal continues. host: we are back with john herbst the senior director of the united council eurasia center and the former u.s. ambassador you -- to ukraine here to discuss u.s./russia tensions over ukraine in the future of nato. good morning. first, tell us what is going on right now.

what is the latest news between what is happening with ukraine and russia and the negotiations between the russia and the united states? host: first, moscow's build along ukraine's border continues. they are ostentatiously sending equipment from their far east 8000 or nine size -- 9000 miles west at a flotilla of six ships from their balkan fleet heading towards the mediterranean and presumably the black sea. moscow said after the three rounds of talks not this past week with the week before that there was no reason to talk further. then, when engen -- antony blinken went tokyiv and berlin, russia reached out so blinken could meet with his counterpart as they did friday. both sides spoke of the need to continue talking.

so moscow is building up its capacity to launch a maser -- major invasion but also willing to talk. they have flexibility in either direction. host: the new york times had an intriguing story this morning that i want to bring to your to get your reaction to. i will look at a couple paragraphs. the british government said saturday the kremlin was developing plans to install a progression leader in ukraine and had already chosen a potential candidate as president putin waits to order forces to attack. what you think about that story in the new york times this morning? yes: i should've mentioned that as well. -- guest: i should have mentioned that as well. that is the latest development. if moscow decides it will seize ukraine's capital this is something that will naturally follow. the figures that they mentioned are odious.

known to be controlled by the kremlin. other names are equally odious. the only way that could happen is at the tip of russian bayonets. otherwise -- other words, the people of ukraine would not in any way except a russian opposed leader. it would have to be done by force. host: what are you watching right now on the international stage? what are you looking at that says this will tip into war between ukraine and russia or it will be the thing that makes russia perhaps move back and wait? are you watching now? -- what are you watching now? host: there are some who believe that moscow will definitely send those trips to ukraine. i'm not one of them. i think the major factor is vladimir putin's understanding of where western leaders are, especially where joe biden is. if he is persuaded that the

reaction by this promise to russian troops and ukraine, in other words, huge sanctions on russia's economy, a major redeployment of nato forces to the border with russia, as well as additional arms to ukraine, i think that food would back down. putin would also choose not to engage if he sends his military in of the united states and the rest -- the west in diplomatic conversations shows a willingness to make major compromises against our interests. so these are the key factors. if biden can be strong and proactive area and right now, he has -- proactive. and right now, he has been kind of ok but not proactive. if he can show putin that there are costs for provocation, the chance of russia sending troops to ukraine go down. of course, we made a necessary compromises to contradict our

interests. host: what is vladimir putin's objective now in all the things russia is doing with ukraine? is ukraine the objective? are other countries i know europe the objective was to mark -- in europe the a jet if -- the objective? are former soviet union satellite countries the objective? guest: putin's objective is to reestablish russian political and military control over the space of the former soviet union and also reaching out to the warsaw pact space. eastern european nations that in soviet times were under moscow's thumb. the treaty he offered us to sign make that care. he wants the removal of all nato equipment, all nato military forces from territories that used to make up the soviet union including the baltic states. countries that used to make up the warsaw pact.

ukraine is the focus of this fight. if putin wins in ukraine you can be sure he will go on to provocations against balkan nato allies and perhaps also against nato allies that used to be part of the warsaw pact like poland in particular and romania. so there are a few stakes at play. america has a great interest in ensuring who tends defeat in ukraine. let's keep in mind that putin has been conducting this war since 2014. the reason why he is threatening a major conventional offensive against ukraine is because the war in ukraine's east is a failure for him and he has not persuaded ukraine to change its western oriented foreign policy. host: our viewers can take part in this conversation. we will open up our regular lines. democrats, your number will be 202-748-8000 . republicans, we want to hear from you at 202-748-8001.

independents, your line is 202-748-8002. you can always text us a question or comment to 202-748-8003 . and, we are always reading on social media on twitter at c-spanwj and on facebook at facebook.com/c-span. john, remind our viewers what this entire dispute is all about. what is russia demanding? what has been the u.s. and nato response? guest: russia is demanding that ukraine essentially change its national security policy. ukraine understands that moscow wants to control the country. therefore, it is seeking to become a member of both nato and eu. -- the eu. if moscow's policy had not been

uniformly aggressive over the past 20 to 30 years this would not be an issue. but moscow's policy has been so aggressive that traditionally neutral countries like sweden and finland are also thinking about joining nato because they see moscow as a danger. moscow's demands also include that nato cannot enlarge to include ukraine and georgia on the one side or sweden and finland on the other. so it is putin's aggressive foreign-policy that created the crisis. host: -- putin launched a war in georgia and paid almost no price. he seized crimea and paid almost no price. his war in eastern ukraine he is paying a price in the form of serious sanctions and therefore he wants to enhance his aggression. because, the war he is conducting now is failing. if he cannot achieve his goals by aggression, he wants to intimidate the west, the united states in particular, the

ukraine as well, into making concessions that give him what he wants. but, in the negotiations that took place two weeks ago and this past friday, he did not achieve those objectives. but he wants to continue talking because he is afraid of the threats coming from washington. that if he sends those troops into ukraine we will issue punishing sanctions and enhance nato forces along russia's border. he does not want either of those things to happen. host: why should americans care about what is happening in ukraine? the war in afghanistan just ended. why should we care about another war going on in europe and outside of russia? guest: u.s. policy in the middle east over the past 20 years was a great failure. our reluctance and refusal to acknowledge that failure is one reason why americans do not trust foreign policy leaders. those were serious mistakes. but that is a different

conversation. we have a great interest in ensuring that putin fails in ukraine. putin's objectives in europe go beyond ukraine. they want to weaken nato. they want to weaken the eu. and they want to weaken the united states. that is why we saw numerous cyber attacks from russia over the past year to which the administration response was rather weak. if putin succeeds in ukraine we have to worry about our baltic nato allies. the smart place is to provide all the assistance ukraine needs to survive the russia attack and to make it clear to putin that if he sends forces into ukraine the sanctions coming down on russia and we will greatly enhance nato forces on russia's border. but the administration needs to be stronger on the policy. they should be moving the forces to the east of nato right now. they should make it crystal clear, not just a russia, but also to the weak willed in

europe, that if russia sends those troops in major sanctions are coming including if in fact russia seizes the capital of ukraine. host: there is a story in nbc news that talks about the first american shipment of lethal aid to ukraine. i want to read a couple paragraphs of the story and get your comment on whether you think this is a good idea or not. this is from nbc news.com. the first american shipment of lethal aid to ukraine has touched down in kyiv, less than 24 hours after anthony blinken met with his russian counterpart. the shipment demonstrates u.s. commitment to helping ukraine bolster its defenses in the face of growing russian aggression. the ms he said in a tweet that the shipment included close to 2000 pounds of lethal aid including ammunition for the frontline defenders of the ukraine. washington approved a $200

million package of additional military assistance to ukraine in december. john, do you think that she met a lethal aid to ukraine is a good or bad idea -- shipment of lethal aid to ukraine is a good or bad idea? guest: it is a very good idea. finally, the a ministration to necessary action. but the ministration -- administration needs to do more. for some reason the administration is reluctant to send missiles that kill russian troops. they should be sending duster ukraine now. -- to ukraine now. the administration has been reluctant to send more efficient antiaircraft ukraine. they should be sending that too. we want peter to see that haley's sins -- putin to see that if he sends those troops in there will be serious casualties. those weapons will be a sign of american determination and we need to demonstrate american determination if we want putin to back down.

host: let's let viewers take part in this conversation. we will start with andrew calling from danbury, connecticut on the republican line. good morning. caller: thank you for letting me on your show. my question is, this kind of piggybacks what we were just talking about. what does ukraine produce or export that justifies the u.s. protecting ukraine against russian encouragements -- encouragements? guest: ukraine is a country of people very savvy in high-tech and internet. it has wonderful military that we use in operations in the middle east. you need to understand that tens foreign-policy is aggressive. -- putin's foreign policy is aggressive. his current focus is on ukraine but he wants to roll back the

security arrangements in europe that guarantee 30 years of peace. that has provided huge prosperity. putin is not hitler's. , but, putin's foreign policy is dangerous to american interests. in 1938 chamberlain, prime minister of britain said what does checklist of aki a matter to the u.k.? he found out when german troops went to france. host: one of our online followers has a similar question about what russia wants with ukraine. can the gentleman comment on whether to tens endgame -- putin's endgame is to capture ukraine's natural resources to bolster the economy? guest: putin would certainly

like the economic bounty ukraine has to offer but putin's objective is geopolitical. he wants to make sure that ukraine remains under moscow's thumb tip or two -- pursue his next steps, putting pressure on the balkan states and other american allies. we do not have to do much to help defeat putin in ukraine. we have to put sanctions on moscow and send military equipment to ukraine and strengthen nato forces. it is better doing that then having to defend baltic allies and american troops after putin takes ukraine. let's be putin now. he is coming -- beat now. he is coming for us after that. host: president joe biden had to clarify a statement he made that the u.s. will not accept a minor incursion of russia into the ukraine. here is what president biden said. >> i want to be absolutely clear

with president putin so he has no misunderstanding. if any, any assembled russian units move across the ukrainian border that is an invasion. it will be met with severe and coordinated economic response. i discussed it with our allies and laid it out clearly for putin. let there be no doubt at all that if putin makes this choice russia will pay a heavy price. it is also not the only scenario we need to be prepared for. russia has a long history of using measures over than overt military action to carry out aggression. paramilitary tactics, so-called brazen attacks, and action -- gray zone attacks and actions by russian soldiers not wearing uniforms, this includes little

green men in uniforms as well as cyber attacks. we have to be decisive with a range of tools at our disposal. the ukrainian foreign minister said this morning that he is confident of our support and resolve and he has a right to be. host: react to what president biden said. are we sending the right message to russia now? call -- guest: he misspoke during his press conference, but, i believe our response needs to be stronger than at the present time. finally, in the last week or so we decided to send the additional military assistance to ukraine before invasion. that was a good step. but we need to send more military equipment. we need to also demonstrate clear leadership with nato and begin the process of moving nato

forces to the east. then we can tell moscow that those forces can be moved back after moscow removed its forces from ukraine's border. finally8, -- finally, we need to demonstrate clearly in the economic round what will happen with sanctions. the biden administration has been very weak dealing with germany on the nord stream 2 pipeline between russia and germany. the administration should state publicly that if russia sends any of those troops into ukraine , if germany does not stop the nord stream 2 pipeline from going to operation, the administration will. that is and i'm very -- that is a very important signal and in the past we have salad -- said the wrong thing but he said the right one now. host: on the independent line, good morning.

caller: we will probably have a disagreement on this. i know you said you welcomed lethal aid being sent to ukraine. but, you talked about russian history. go back to those ours -- the czars of the russian empire. they have always had exercise on the borders of the countries around them for geopolitical reasons. the concern i have is that nato has an open border policy and that could be perceived as a threat. now, i know putin is not a democratic leader by no stretch of the imagination. he is very undemocratic. but we have made deals with undemocratic leaders over the years to avoid conflict. i do not believe that certain actions we have taken lightly have really worked towards stability there. i do not see one -- want to see the ukraine invaded either because i believe in self-determination like you do. we have had a history of that. but we need to do something, if

we can, to avoid a potential conflict over the ukraine. i want you to respond to that comment. guest: vladimir putin's objectives are not limited to ukraine. not at all. he conducted, again, many cyber attacks against the u.s. over the past year. demonstrating his hostile intent to the u.s.. you are right that at least for the last several hundred years, moscow has controlled much of what is today ukraine. over the last 75 years, between 1945 and 1990, they controlled all of eastern europe. putin's objective is to reestablish that control now. why would we want to give a hostile power, and, putin is hostile towards the u.s.. he has said it regularly over the past 17 or 18 years.

while what he want to see to that power --cede to that power control over not just ukraine but eastern europe? you talk about nato getting larger. that was not because the united states asked for it. that was not because nato asked for it. it is because of the countries of eastern europe, of the former soviet union, recognizing moscow's aggressive intent, asked to become members. this was all driven by their very rational fear of russian mansion. -- expansion. we do not have a geopolitical interest in making it easier for moscow to conquer its neighbors. we have a geopolitical interest in making sure those neighbors are strong pursuing their own policies. you say you want -- stand for independence and sovereignty so i think you should be sen. sasse: to ukraine as it deals -- you should be sympathetic to

ukraine as it deals with aggression and a potential military invasion from moscow. host: what would an invasion or incursion from russia look like? the bbc has a chart showing the differences between the military in ukraine and the military in russia. russia by far has more troops and more equipment than ukraine. so what would an invasion or incursion by russia into ukraine actually look like? guest: russia has the second or the third most powerful military force in the world. we are easily the strongest, far stronger than russia and for that matter than china. but russia has a very strong military and ukraine has a reasonable military for country that has 40 million as opposed to 150 million. well, moscow has it the military ability to seize any point in ukraine it wants. it will pay a serious price and

terms of ukrainian resistance but it would win. but putin is worried about not just in his abilities to take assets, to take land in ukraine. it is the possible american-led western response. the unfortunate biden press conference highlighted the problem. we are pretty strong in terms of our determination to impose sanctions on moscow. some allies in europe however are rather weak. putin, they figure, if he launches a limited military strike, for example, if he seizes a town in ukraine's east where there is fighting now, if he seizes snake island in the black sea, he might reason that everyone will be so relieved that they will say, let's not sanction moscow. that is a real danger. that can be averted with a american leadership. the point is that putin can send

troop into the capital. and that article mentioned installing a puppet government. they can seize a large swath of land on the territories of eastern ukraine that they already occupy all the way to odessa and the crimea to establish a land border from russia into crimea. that would make the cost of their occupation of crimea much smaller. or, they could seize the second largest city in ukraine, only 50 or so miles from the border with russia. there are any a number -- any number of things they can do. put in will want to demonstrate why military action, if he chooses military action, that he can cause great pain in ukraine and forced ukraine to change its national security policy. he has the military ability to do that. host: let's talk to harriet calling from saint augustine,

florida on the democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning. i so appreciate, sir, your ability at reading really good from your prepared notes this morning. you sound to go back to sleep or possibly take some ivermectin for that cough area >> i am speaking extemporaneously. -- cough. guest: i am speaking extemporaneously. host: let's go to don calling from salinas, california on the republican line. caller: what i am not seeing is much honesty to the american people about what is really going on in ukraine. then he put a little bit out there. number one, ukraine is a splintered, balkanized country.

number two, it has a highly corrupt government and putin feels that all he has to do is do a march around the outside of ukraine and put on the pressure and it will collapse in on itself and he can walk in without firing a shot and that is pretty much what he is doing. as far as our great allies in europe, europe will not publicly say it will cancel the pipeline from russia over ukraine. france wants unilateral talks with russia over ukraine. we are fools. the ambassador is sitting there telling these lies to america about ukraine wanting to be a democratic country. look a little bit at the history of ukraine. their government has a temple to machiavelli somewhere. that is a corrupt, lying, stinking country. and us defending it, we are getting into a real quagmire.

host: respond, john. guest: i think the disinformation was coming not from me but from the gentleman who just spoke. first, ukraine is not balkanized. it is true that there are different ethnic groups in ukraine although a majority of ukrainian -- are ukrainian. even ethnic russians in ukraine, especially in the east, were involved in fighting the kremlin aggression going on now. it is true that ukraine is a democracy and has been a democracy for at least 20 years. i agree with the caller that ukraine has a corruption problem. but, no greater corruption in ukraine than in russia. again, we have a great interest in make sure -- making sure this country can defend itself from kremlin aggression. i do not understand why that caller chooses to defend moscow's aggression in ukraine.

host: john, we have heard references to it. i want you to explain more about the importance of the north stream gas pipeline in what is going on with ukraine and russia. we have a couple internet followers who have questions about it. the first person wants to know, is russia literally negotiating with the individual european countries while it is negotiating with the u.s.? the second internet follower wants to say, nord stream 2 has always been about russia. it cuts out the ukraine and many other eastern european countries from being transit points for existing gas supplies. it saves the russian money -- russians money and makes their gas lever larger. what does the north stream gas pipeline that goes guest: nordstream 2 is a geopolitical project designed to enhance rush be ya's influence in europe. one, it is a blow against not

just ukraine but poland and for that matter belarus because as there are currently gas pipelines that run be through ukraine and poland to western be europe, and be with nordstream 2 in operation, russia can use nordstream 2 and nordstream 1 and not use the other pipelines. so it's a blow against the countries of eastern europe. but even more insidiously it inbe hanses -- enhances the response in germany. their response to ukraine was not too bad under merkel because she led the fight within europe and put sanctions on russia for its aggression in ukraine. but germany has been weak especially in the current crisis, and that reflects russian be influence within

germany and nordstream 2 only inbe hanses that influence. the biden administration has made a serious mistake with nordstream 2. they've accommodated germany and they have let germany dictate our policy. congress was on the verge of putting sanctions on the pipeline which would have stopped it and the biden administration waived those sanctions. the biden administration claims it's against nordstream 2 but that's more for show. everything they've done has made it possible for nordstream 2 to go into operation. that cuts against american interests if we don't want moscow's influence to increase in germany and to be able to use the pipeline against countries in europe it doesn't like such as poland and so on. host: let's talk to eric calling from south carolina on the independent line. eric, good morning. caller: good morning. can you hear me?

host: we can. go ahead. caller: let me preface my remarks by saying i am as patriotic and american and the one person i have been listening to on this issue is the late husband of your next guest who i believe is the only russian scholar in this country that has presented a fair and objective view on these issues. i wish he were still around to talk more about this. i look be at the last 30 years and i don't see putin as the aggressor. i see him reacting to some very dangerous american provocations along the way. so let me give you two examples. number one, this whole issue of crimea. we have heard from the mainstream media over and over again russian aggression, russian aggression. in 2014, there was a deal reached after the cold war, there was a naval base where the russian black sea naval fleet

was based. they were leasing that base from the use rainians. -- ukranians. it was the national endowment of democracy, an extension of the c.i.a., which organized a coup in ukraine. they were caught talking about it on the phone, all right, and there was a coup organized and a democratically elected person was overthrown and a pro-american regime was installed there. it seems to me the objective there was to take away that naval base, which is the russians' only strategic court that they were leasing. if you can have a country organizing a coup and the national security of russia is at stake without that naval base, that is a pretty dangerous provocation and it seems to me putin had to take crimea for that reason. secondly, you didn't mention the treaty that we unilaterally

withdraw drew from in -- withdrew from in 2002. we put missile defense in romania. that is as provocative an action to destabilize nuclear parity. it gives us the ability to shoot down their neuk be leer missilen case there was a crisis. we were trying to gain nuclear superiority over them. that is highly provocative, sir. host: go ahead and respond, john. guest: ok. first i think you need to study up on ukraine. what happened with mr. yanokovich is that he rejected under massive russian be pressure a free trade agreement he had been negotiated with the european union. that led to demonstrations, tens of thousands of demonstration -- be demonstrators in the streets of kiev in 2013.

he cracked down on those demonstrations with force because he was an authoritarian by nature. as a result he had demonstrations of hundreds of thousands of people in the streets of ukraine. he then either permitted or ordered the use of snipers to fire on those demonstrators in february, at which point the ukrainian people said this man must go and which i understand. a quote-unquote western regime was not installed in ukraine. they rejected an authoritarian be leader who was using military force to kill innocent demonstrators. that's what happened in ukraine. the then assistant secretary of state offered her views regarding how the opposition might organize itself. if you go back and look at what she said and if you look at how the opposition wound up organizing itself, you realize

that what she said did not pan out. she also distributed cookies to demonstrators. that was about as nefarious as the american activities got. as for your position regarding the a.b.m. treaty, it's important to note that putin did not object to our ending the a.b.m. treaty. it's also true that the russians violated the a.b.m. treaty, the open skies agreement, the intermediate nuclear forces agreement, many things and i hope as an american patriot you understand that. so bottom line, the russians are conducting a war of aggression against ukraine because they don't like the political choices of the ukrainian people. as for crimea, they signed an agreement in 2010. that agreement was enforced when moscow seized prima. those russian forces will remain

there and so almost nothing you said has a basis in fact. as a -- it has a basis in myth and that's probably the best way to try and justify policies that justify, encourage russian aggression. aggression which is against american be interests, strong american interests. host: jeff says this is an ongoing news topic. there is news that is happening even as we speak. the hill newspaper has it from -- has a story in it that it just published with russia saying that the claim from britain that it's looking to replace ukraine government officials with pro-russian officials is misinformation. russia is dismigging a british claim that moscow is looking to replace the government with pro-russian officials calling the suggestion misinformation. the disinformation spread by the british foreign office is more

evidence that it is the nato country led by the anglo-saxons who are escalating tensions around ukraine. russia the -- the russian foreign ministry spokeman said sunday, according to the associated press, we call on the british foreign office to stop provocative activities, stop spreading nonsense, she added. what should we take of that rejection from this story from britain saying that russia is trying to replace ukrainian was plausible. if moscow decides to seize the capital of ukraine, they will certainly have some puppets on hand who will then be presented as new leaders of the country. now, regarding her denial of the story, it's worth remembering that the russians claimed that those little green men who took crimea in february of 2014 were

not their soldiers until putin in ap speech bragged that in fact they were russian soldiers. that's how reliable the russian official statements are. host: let's talk to tim who is calling from arkansas be on the democrat line. tim, good morning. caller: good morning. what are the chances that america and russia, china, the flash points, we bumble our way into world war iii? guest: ok, i think there is almost no chance of an american-russian military conflict over ukraine. again we are not talking about sending american troops there. we are talking about a whole variety of measures to make it extremely painful if putin enhances the current aggression in ukraine.

a lot of people say we should allow putin to conduct aggression in order to avoid a nuclear war with russia. it's worth remembering that the united states was going toe to toe with the soviet union for 45 years after world war ii and be the soviet union was much more powerful than russia is now. we were able to defend our interests, whether it was in cuba, in berlin, elsewhere despite that fact. so as long as we are strong, as long as our policies are clear, rush be ya has to be very -- russia has to be very careful because we are powerful. we have a real economy. not like russia who is not quite developed. host: let's talk to mike on the republican line. mike, good morning. caller: good morning. good morning, ambassador.

about the only area i really agree with you -- i think your assessment of the biden administration is spot on. i really don't think that anything that they've done, especially the withdrawal from afghanistan, has sent signals of competence and deterrence and so on and so forth. that spreads throughout the middle east. we all know putin is watching. you've obviously got a much more in depth in the weeds knowledge of all this having been an ambassador there, so i can't really challenge anything that -- all i can say is that, you know, the statement that you just made really caught me and be -- about our defense be of democracy in western be europe. i am hundred be guerin by descent. eisenhower allowed them to waltz into budapest and crush the

invasion in 56. we didn't do shit. l.b. swrvment allowed the tanks to roll into czechoslovakia. we didn't do anything. we have a history of when it's not tenable be when we don't really have a strong be position to defend, we will let dictators and petty tyrants waltz all over the planet if there is really not a tenable position that we can hold. host: go ahead and respond quickly to him, john. guest: i think you are right. i don't think we had much of a choice in hung beery in 1956 or czechoslovakia. but we have choices now. all those countries that were under soviet thumb are now free. putin wants to change that. his current operation to make that happen is in ukraine. so we have the power. we do have the power without sending american forces to shoot russians. to stop putin in ukraine.

let's do it. we do that not only do we help save ukraine but we help save all the countries that you are associated with, now the czech republic, slovakia, now hungary. this is the smart play for us and it's not a very expensive for us. we should do it. host: we are going to stop there. we want to thank john herbst, senior director for the atlantic council and be the former u.s. ambassador to ukraine for being with us this morning and talking over the russian tensions with ukraine and the united states and nato. john, thank you so much for taking time out to talk with us this morning. guest: ok, bye-bye. host: we are going to continue talking about what is happening in russia and ukraine with katrina vanden heuvel in our final segment. she's the editorial director of

"the nation" magazine and she'll be here to talk about russia and president biden's first year in office. but up next we will take your phone calls. whre have our open forum where you can talk about the most important political issues to you. you see the national parks there on the screen -- the numbers there on the screen. still with us. we will be be back in one minute. >> diplomats from the u.s., europe and russia discuss national security. watch live, monday at 3:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. online at c-span.org or watch full coverage on c-span now, our new video app. >> in march of 2017, lance geiger from the basement of his house in illinois created a new

business. however his business can be seen be all over the world on youtube. since that day, geiger has been known as known as the history guy. he has produced hundreds of short documentaries on history in his home studio, surrounded by hundreds of artifacts including military hats. lance geiger is always dressed in his trademark dark suit, black rimmed glasses and bow tie. >> lance geiger, the history guy, on this episode of book notes plus. book notes plus is available wherever you get your podcasts. >> c-span offers a variety of podcasts that has something for every listener. washington today gives you the latest from our nation's

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our open forum segment where you can call in and talk about the most important political issue on your mind be. once be again, our lines are going to be the regular lines. that means democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. you can always text, 202-748-8003. and we are always reading on social media and twitter and on facebook. before we get into our phone calls, there is a story on the front be page of today's "washington post" i want to bring to you about the u.s. postal service delivering coronavirus test kits. the u.s. postal service mission to deliver 500 million coronavirus test kits has an unprecedented role in the nation's pandemic response. just as covid-19 infections have peaked within its own ranks and its network is under be immense

strain. online orders begin rolling in this week for the free rapid tests which are skid euld to ship by the -- be scheduled to ship by the end of the month. the agency has converted more than 40 facilities into ad hoc fulfillment centers in the largest disaster relief mobilization in its 247 year history. the stakes for the country and postal service could hardly be be higher. americans are still struggling to access at home coronavirus test kits as the omicron variant is driving caseloads to near record highs in parts of the country. once again that's in today's "washington post" with the postal service getting ready to ship 500 million coronavirus tests around the united states. let's go to our phone lines and see what claudia calling from florida on the democrat line has to say this morning. claudia, good morning. caller: good morning.

i find it very interesting that the psuedointellectuals are questioning people who have extended experience, who have education, who have been there and done that, how they think that their internet searching and fox news somehow gives them the wherewithal or the information that's needed to go toe to toe with these individuals who have lived their lives in that field. it's just the same thing with the coronavirus. they've been told that you can't trust the science and then they go on fox and then they go on these other internet lines and then they say, well, why do we have to trust the doctors and the scientists? we can just go online and mauch our own decisions. that to me is ludicrous and the

republicans be are great at that. host: let's talk to nancy calling from arizona on the republican line. nancy, good morning. caller: hi. i have a comment and a question. why is nobody even talking about the people in china? host: what is your comment? caller: one country be can only be as strong as our president. and i think that our president isn't very strong so we are looking pretty weak. host: let's go to bradley calling from georgia on the democrat line. bradley, good morning. caller: yes, sir. i want to thank you. i love your show. i would like to speak be to the damage that it's not just donald trump, it's ranked paul. what vladimir putin has gotten his hands into the republican

party and now they're like staunching republicans now are like parroting putin's talking points along with tucker carlson. russia has been at war with us since 2014 and we do not get it. trump was an actual like be asset of russia but we got him out. i really thought joe biden would be tougher and like i never thought i would agree with ted cruz but the nordstream 2 is the most ridiculous thing for us to allow to happen. it completely controls europe's heating and oil and everything. russia keeps hacking us. they interfere in our elections. it is not just ukraine. then it's poland and god knows ha else. russia is actively at war with us and the republican party has turned into a propaganda arm of the russian government. i am very disappointed in the republican party. that's all you have to -- all i have to say. host: let's go to susan calling

from fort myers, florida, on the independent line. susan, good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i hope everybody is safe this morning. i would like to bring us just a couple of things that no one is talking about. i am really dismayed very much and it's scary, all the violence in our country, and i am wondering -- i can't help but notice that the entertainment industry is not being held accountable also for contributing to that. everything that's on the television is violence, sadism and sex, constant shooting. if there's something done consistently over and over again, it becomes the norm. i think hollywood is much more talented looking back, that they can have funny things on, not dirty or sexy funny things,

funny things. you know, and the other thing that i would like to bring up -- and this is to both parties because i have voted both parties. they need -- all the politicians from local up to our federal, including the supreme court, need to remember that they are employees, employees. that's an important thing. they shouldn't have all these specific rights and everything. they're employees. they work for us. host: let's go to frank calling from pennsylvania on the democrat line be. frank, good morning. caller: good morning, sir. thank you for taking my call. i am just calling with my disgust and fed up with the fact that we went over in those

iranian countries to fight for people to vote and here they are trying to take our votes. coming out and show the purple thumb and we got this here insurrectionsists jumping all over the white house. they don't -- be i don't know what this white supremacy is coming to, man. it's a people's' world, brother. we can't go for that stuff. the white supremacists want be to say it's going to be better with trump. when have you seen a president go in the back room and discuss things with a russian be president and we have had idea what they said? putin is doing the things he do because he figured at least he got us so stirred up now our heads are not clean and -- clear and folks keep our heads on clear. host: let's go tole -- be to the republican line. good morning. caller: good to hear -- to talk to you, sir. the biggest problem i am seeing

right now is obviously our inflation and our debt. with our inflation the way it's going, if it continues we will see more and more rising interest rates and the housing market will slow down be. i think that will be a huge issue for us. they say every time you take a dime out of the gas prices go up by a dime, you take a billion dollars out of the retail sector and you will see retail struggling with getting its merchandise off the ports into their businesses. it's going to have a severe effect on us until probably this fall. that's really all i wanted to talk about today. thank you for your time. host: there is a story in today's "new york times" looking at where the omicron variant and the covid pandemic is in the united states right now and here

is a story from the times. new coronavirus cases have started to fall nationally signaling that the omicron fueled spike that has infected tens of millions of americans and shattered records has finally begun to relent. more and more states have passed a peak in new cases in recent days as glimmers of prorog -- progress have spread to much of the country. through friday the country was averaging about 720,000 new cases a day, down from about 807,000 last week. new coronavirus hospital admissions have leveled off. even as hopeful data points emerge the threat has by no means passed. the united states continues to identify far more infections a day than in any prior surge and some states in the west, south and great plains are still seeing sharp increases. many hospitals are full and deaths continue to mount with more than 2,000 announced in

most days. once again that's from today's story in "the new york times." omicron cases appear to peak in the u.s. but deaths continue to rise. what is on your mind this morning? this is our open forum segment. call in with your important political topics. let's talk to barbara calling from louisiana on the democrat line. barbara, good morning. caller: good morning. thanks for having me. i am concerned about the coronavirus and i think that the government should mandate the vaccines, especially for civil service employees, government employees, and the schools, the children need to go back to school and anyone that's receiving medicaid funding, they should mandate that they have the vaccine be to go to school. education, children need to be in the classroom for primary

grades. also for concerning security with the 5-g phones, it should be mandated, once you get to the airport and you get on the plane, you will be in airplane mode and not be able to use your phone except for movies. and also with the voting right, i also agree with the caller, our president biden needs to put pressure on the republicans and ind be pents to come across -- ind be pents to come across the aisle and they need to get back with the voting rights. this is something that was fought for, for years and now they're back stepping. we need to have the right to vote. host: let's go to anie calling from iowa city, iowa on the independent line. annie, good morning. caller: good morning to you. i just have a general be comment about our elected officials and

just kind of how this reflect -- they reflect. just to put it this way, most of us that work would have been fired about a million times over if we had pulled fraction of what our congresspeople and our senators have pulled. i think we would be be well served if there were a thing as term limits in which we actually elect a person, they don't do what we elected then for, then we can get them out. they should be fortunate they have such a great, cushy job. that's about it. host: let's go to vincent calling from oklahoma on the republican line. vincent, good morning. caller: yes, how you doing, sir? host: just fine. go ahead. caller: i have a question for you. the founder of c-span, charles lamb -- be. host: it's brian lamb. caller: how is he doing?

host: as far as i know, brian is doing fine be. caller: thanks. host: ok. let's go to nico, calling from massachusetts on the democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning. i am frankly stunned. as someone who has -- my dad was from ukraine, he left in 1984 and moved us over here, and i am frankly tired to see all these post-soviet countries be pushed around by russia and i see nobody ever do anything about it. all we do is economic sanction here, here goes -- there goes the economy. foot down and say hey, you -- you know what i am saying? host: let's go to angella calling from washington, d.c., on the democrat line. good morning. caller: i would like to see that the news media and politicians

break down the word democracy, ibs reks and coup that we have people here in this country listening to these discussions but they do not really understand what you are really talking about because i did a small survey of family and friends and when i asked the question most of them said they didn't really understand the words. i think that democracy is a very important thing be in america but until they understand what you are talking about they can't even grasp what they need to do or be concerned about it. host: "the wall street journal" has a story this morning about how the united states and the telecom companies messed up a new rollout of 5-g in the united states. i will bring a few paragraphs to you. the biden and trurn add -- trump administration had years of warning. the government failed this week to avoid a collision between u.s. telecom companies and airlines over the rollout of new

5-g networks. that failure rooted in disagreements over potential be risk and lack of cooperation by u.s. regular tosser -- be regulators led to a scramble that led to the cancellation of thousands of flights and raised tensions between two powerful industries. since 2015 the federal aviation administration has questioned whether decades old aviation equipment would be disrupted by new cellular signal. the risk be to ar -- aircraft has been dismissed by the telecom industry and its regulator. yet the f.a.a. still is sifting throw a flood of wireless company data while altering flight safety instructions. boeing corporation began talking last weekend with the user of its jets about possibly halting flights into major airports ahead of the 5-g be debut. along with questions about shifting restrictions that set off days of panicked calls among

airline chiefs and be white house officials. people familiar with the matter said, i can't believe it's come to this. united airlines holding incorporated chief executive wrote in an email to senior biden officials that was reviewed by "the wall street journal." international airlines announced the cancellation of some flights and carriers rushed to adjust skid euls -- schedules until verizon agreed to limit 5-g signals near major airports. once again this is from "the wall street journal" how the united states messed up its new rollout. it wasn't our finest hour. let's go back be to our phone lines and start with garcia who is calling from massachusetts on the republican line. garcia, good morning. caller: hello, yes. i would like to raise support for the anti-mandate people. it's not anti-vaccine.

i feel like people can get whatever vaccine they like but if you don't want to it shouldn't be mandated. i won dir why -- wonder why the narrative about voting rights is it will disenfranchise mients or that it's going to somehow -- minorities or that it's racist. i think it's racist to assume that african-americans can't get i.d.'s. host: all right. let's go to jerry who is calling from windsor, pennsylvania on the democrat line. jerry, good morning. caller: good morning. my question is or my comment is i am thinking that the voting right is the most important thing to pass right now so that everyone in the united states has the freedom to vote. host: ok. caller: i am sorry. host: let's go to john calling from princeton, west virginia, on the republican line. john, good morning.

caller: yes, good morning. i just want to touch on the voting rights and kind of filibuster if i have time. as far as people fussing about the vote being rights and i do agree we need to have some kind of i.d., why on earth everybody has an i.d. whether it's a driver's license or standard i.d. issued through the d.m.v. why can't something be done there that some kind of notification be put on your i.d. card that proves that is who you are, your picture is already on that card. it would be be a cheap, easy fix and it would eliminate people from false voting. the other thing about the filibuster be, i am from west virginia. everybody is on senator manchin about this. the filibuster is a necessary tool for our democracy. even president biden backed

several years ago when it was the democrats holding the filibuster, upheld it and told why it was needed to be done. host: let's go to jim calling from ohio on the independent line. jim, good morning. caller: good morning to you also. my comment pertains to the ukraine situation and the russian aggression. after the fall of the soviet union and the iron curtain the west and united states assured the ukranians of security if they were to give up their nuclear weapons which they did. where is that promise now in the face of this new russian aggression? host: all right. let's talk to herbie calling from mississippi on the democrat line. herbie, good morning. caller: good morning, everyone.

the prison thing you were talking about, we don't pay attention that the democrats are for illegal immigrants who come into this country and they go along with laws that turn black people into villains and they can't vote. the republicans and they -- they turn their own voters against them because you ever notice the republicans look out for one another. the january 6 thing, i said the republicans are circling the wagons. democrats was doing that for black people we wouldn't be in jail. you showed a chart a little while ago. you diseent include -- didn't include illegal immigrants as being locked up in massive numbers. they're crossing our border and coming in here having more freedom than our black children. i think black people need to pay

attention to democrat party. host: let's go to cathy calling from florida on the republican line. cathy, good morning. caller: good morning. how you doing? i was calling because we had the covid shot, all our patients have covid and i am home with covid. nobody -- who is going to help us pay our bills? who will help employees out with covid? we need help. can someone please help us? have a blessed day. host: let's talk to willie calling from california on the democrat line. willie, good morning. caller: thank you. i am calling about -- do the american people remember when trump was running for president and he said that if he didn't get to run for president that it would be a civil war and also

trump -- trump -- be he told the republicans that he made them all rich and we need to understand that those people can't do anything. trump has made them all rich and when you make somebody all rich you got to do what they say. you can't do what you want to do. your hands are tied. the american people need to see and know that -- i am telling you, i don't believe in the republicans or the democrats. i just -- i heard so much about both of them that they're all bogus. host: let's go to walter calling from st. petersburg, florida, on the republican line. walter, good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for having me. i am calling about the ukraine situation. it's only in america's best interest to arm the ukranians to help fight the russian aggression that is spilling into ukraine. the ukranians aren't asking for

military aid. boots on the ground. we are just asking for armaments to combat the russians in order to have sovereign voters in ukraine. it was guaranteed in -- i think it was budapest memorandum and unfortunately some presidents didn't really honor it and parts of ukraine have gone and it's only in america's and the west's best interests to arm the ukranians as much as they can. thank you very much. host: let's go to shirley calling from south carolina on the democrat line. shirley, good morning. caller: good morning. i just want to make a comment. i would like to know why is mitch mcconnell up there trying to hold up everything that the democrats are trying to do? and he sees what happens in kentucky with all that hurricane. i have not heard him say not one

word about that. so i want the people from kentucky to call and let me know and everybody else know what is he trying to do about helping them down there in kentucky instead of holding up everything that the democrats is trying to do. thank you. host: let's talk to craig, who is calling from spokane, washington, on the independent line. craig, good morning. caller: how you doing? well, i have something i would like to say in case a lot of people don't really remember this or know about this. when this happened in ukraine there were a lot of active neo-nazis and white supremacists that were basically dominating the streets and the united states government met with and be -- and armed and allowed to

basically run be amuck all over the country. other people, other civilians. even trade union workers. i watched a bunch of neo-nazis laying siege it a trade union building. a woman was strangled with a phone cord, a pregnant woman. you know, like, i think a lot of people have totally forgot how the united states helped overthrow the people's republic of afghanistan by aiding in the rise of the mujahedin. host: let's talk to earnstine on the democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning. i want to make a comment about manchin and sinema. they are republicans posing as

democrats. get them out of there. thank you. host: let's go to carl calling from west virginia. carl, good morning. caller: yes, i am concerned about the ukraine situation only because i don't know if everybody knows about hypersonic missiles. there is no such thing as conventional war anymore. they either use drones or they use hypersonic missiles that can be here in 15 minutes. host: ok. we will continue to talk about russia, the ukraine situation, and president biden's first year in office with our next guest, katrina vanden heuvel, who is the editorial director of "the nation" magazine. we will be with her in just one minute. stick around. we will be right back.

>> during the final three years of world war ii, nearly 3,000 nazis were detained and interrogated at fort hunt be. a top secret military intelligence facility near washington, d.c. tonight on q&a, robert sutton, former chief historian of the national park service, talks about fort hunt and the importance it played during the war. >> there were two russian-american soldiers at fort hunt, dressed in red army uniforms. they were conspicuous throughout the fort. an interrogator thought someone was being cagey, they would call in one of these two fellows and say you don't want to talk to us? how about if ivan here takes you to the soviet union. maybe they would like to mary what -- hear what you have to

say. that worked incredibly well both at fort hunt and in europe. >> robert sutton, tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern, on c-span's q&a. you can listen to all of our podcasts on our new c-span now app. >> weekends on book tv, leading authors talk about their latest books. professor michael dyson examines the impact of black culture and politics on the united states with his book entertaining race, performing blackness in america. on afterwards physicist leonard talks about his book, emotional, how feelings shape our tig. -- thinking. watch book be tv every weekend and find a full schedule on your

program guide or watch anytime at c-span.org. >> diplomats from the u.s., europe and russia discuss the situation in ukraine and european security, hosted by the center for the national interest. watch live monday at 3:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, online at c-span.org, or watch full coverage on c-span now, our new video app. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we back and for our final segment today we very with us katrina vanden heuvel, editorial director and publisher of the nation and a wrk ton -- "washington post" columnist, with us to talk about the ukrainian situation and president biden's first year in office. good morning. guest: good morning. host: in your most recent column you expressed deep concern about

the administration's hawkish tone with russia right now. explain your concerns. guest: my main concern is we are at a pivotal moment. the most important thing in my view is to defuse the immediate crisis, continue talking about how to make ukraine independent, free, whole, but not through nato expansion. the united states has no significant security interest in ukraine. i think there is a delusional quality to the commentary. no president is going to send american men and women to russia. the idea of insurgency and funding a ukrainian be insurgency is on the table, is already happening. but if you think about the crisis this country faces from pandemic to inequality to the climate crisis to severe racial divisions, it seems folly to engage in another insurgency considering we have just exited from afghanistan and that caused

$5.8 trillion according to the cost of war project and the international community such as it is can't pony up $5 billion for the humanitarian crisis there. let me say that at the heart of this, the original sin is nato. nato is not a coffee klatch. when the soviet union was abolished the warsaw pact was ended. at that point there might have been a new kind of security architecture in europe and in fact george h.w. bush and james bake beer -- baker vowed to soviet leader gosh be chef that -- gorbachev that nato would not move one inch eastward. that promise has been broken maybe 14 times as nato has expanded to the borders of russia. i think russia is creating -- nato is creating the very problems it's designed to police. but at the end of the day,

15,000 civilians have died in euk rabe -- ukraine. it's a civil war in many ways and it's been made a proxy war and be a geopolitical struggle in ways that will not help the ukranians find be a fair and free country. at the moment, according to the nato charter ukraine could not be admitted because of territorial integrity issues. ideally there could be be a moratorium for five, 10 years. the next step however will be the united states, blinken responding to the russians in a written document sometime this week. of course you have the british news, anonymous, unsourced, coming at a pivotal moment in the crisis. we have seen this before. we don't know enough about this. it's anonymous sources but we have seen through history attempts to derail negotiations

when they're reaching a pivotal point. i would be very careful with that news which came out at 10:30 p.m. on a weekend. host: there was a story this morning that the russian government is denying that british report. do you believe the russian government in its denial of the report from the british foreign office? guest: i don't believe -- be i think governments act in their own self-interest so i think we need to verify. we need more information. i don't trust but it seems troublesome, as i said, that coming at a pivotal moment in negotiations to resolve this crisis that you have unsourced intelligence reports from the u.k. which has been very hawkish in its perspective toward russia on many be issues, and you have a government in the u.k., boris johnson's holiday parties have not been going down too well with the british people in the

midst of covid disasters, but again i come back -- there was a very good article in "the new york times" magazine. i read it yesterday, sunday's "new york times" magazine, about the human costs. it's called, in the trenchings of ukraine's forever war. it shows how divide the country is between east and west. euk rawn has -- ukraine has been divided for centuries. the eastern part, people speak russian, be which doesn't mean it should not be a fair and independent country. but it ends with someone 60 years old on crutches in the eastern part of ukraine. this man had also fought in afghanistan. he had just come from one of too many funerals of friends killed in the ukrainian civil war and he said why are we fighting? he ends by saying afghanistan was a real war but this war is something i don't understand.

i think a lot of ukranians would like to find a way to live together, but it's going to require -- i don't want to go into detail, but there are a set of proposals that if implemented with wisdom could resolve the situation instead of an insurgency, instead of more weapons being sent to a country already awash in weapons and in a part of the country where you have chernobyl. people remember that. that's still not fully contained if you have fighting around chernobyl, you could unleash radioactive materials. the key thing is to rebuild nuclear security, not to have war in an area where you could bring in missiles and things like that. that's not going to help people. as we see from afghanistan, be too often be countries come in, fight, leave and the humanitarian crisis is left behind. host: you also don't seem to have much confidence in biden's

diplomatic be team, writing in your column upon taking office, biden declared that this is a time for diplomacy even as he installed a team of national security managers from the blob be. marinated in debacles in iraq, libya, syria and more. first of all, what is the blob and what do you mean by this statement? guest: all right, so the blob. the blob is the sort of permanent establishment that runs foreign air -- be affairs in this country, national security foreign air fairs. they're a set of people who go from administration to administration with some differences, but these are people who are marinated, that is a choice word, but have not been held accountable for failure of decision, for failure to support these military interventions which have not made america more secure, which have not made the world more secure, yet they keep coming. they are hawkish in the most

part toward what needs to be made -- let me put it this way. they're not about restraint. they're interventionist. at the moment the u.s. national security strategy has gone from downplaying counterbe terrorism, the global war on terror appears to be over, this is biden's but it's also bipartisan. it's about now making a two front cold war. we haven't even talked about china but china and russia are in the sights of the national security community. i am thinking of blinken, sullivan who was with hillary clinton and then you have their appendages like victoria newlands is in the state department and she was in the trump administration and the bush administration. you have eflen -- be eflen fargas be talking about arming and fighting. so many of these i think of as

armchair warriors. if you are sitting in washington, d.c., part of the blob, and going on about let's send men and women or send weapons, you know, i think you bear a large responsibility considering as i said the crises this country faces. i am not a pacifist but i believe restraint, engagement, dialogue and the lost art of diplomacy i think are critical tools in a world awash in nuclear weapons with an arms control administration terribly unraveled, largely due to john bolton who has been with us again. these people have been with us forever. they should exit the building. john bolton was with george w. in the single most dangerous arms control moment when in 2002 the unraveling of the antiballistic missile treaty which began to unravel the arms control regime. so i am saying there are people who are circling and then they come on tv, like cnn, and they're not disclosing -- like

the generals who fought in afghanistan who are on boards of companies. it's no longer the military industrial complex which is so powerful. the money being raked in. but mickey mac is like military, industrial, congressional, media, internet all wound together and i don't mean to be glib, but the military industrial complex plays a large growing world in our country at the peril of our frayed democracy which we talk about but don't make the connection to military misadventures abroad which often undermine democracy at home. host: let's say president biden gives you a call and says what should i do right now about russia and ukraine? what would be be your advice to president biden right now? guest: go into a room for two days with -- have blinken and the foreign minister, a very

experienced foreign minister, very rational, and work out a moratorium on nato expansion because in fact nato couldn't expands to ukraine anyway and work out a moratorium, ensure ukraine is under pent -- independent, demand the russians stop military forays and build on the minsk process where you have federalization so it can speak russian, adhere to cultural norms, but that ukraine is independent, a bridge between east and west and not -- and couldn't be, as i said earlier, part of nato. keep it -- just try to build out that moratorium. i think that gives both sides a way forward and a way out of this immediate crisis.

there are more details but i won't go into it right now, but i think if we spent as much time as we do thinking about military strategy, if we spent as much time thinking about creative diplomatic, a word which is old-fashioned, but creative ways to avert, avoid war and military conflict, we would be a better country and we would be a better world. i am not naive about russia. i have been going for 30 years. putin has extended his stay too long. there is a repression underway in the media. i've worked with media groups and women's groups, n.g.o.'s, a human rights o was something my husband and i were involved with formation. so i see cold eye what's happening in russia but i also believe when you have cold war, i've seen this over the decades, the internal costs are that there is more repression of

independent freedom of speech, dissidents, and the atmosphere does play domestically in negative ways. so i think we need to continue to speak out. my close friend of 30 years is editor of the leading independent newspaper in moscow who won be the nobel peace prize at the end of december along with a terrific journalist. so i am not naive. but i do think war is going to not produce the outcome so many of the armchair warriors think. host: let's remind our viewers they can take part in this conversation. we will remind our viewers they can take part in this conversation. we are going to open up our regular line. that means democrats (202) 748-8000. republicans (202) 748-8001. independents (202) 748-8002.

you can always text (202) 748-8003. we are always reading on social media, on twitter, and on facebook at facebook.com/c-span. katrina, speaking of president biden, last week marked his first year in office. what grade do you give president biden for his first year in office? guest: the grading -- i hate being graded. it is hard to give one great. i don't mean to evade your question. i would say a- on domestic issues putting aside obstructionist problems and a b-/c on foreign policy. i think exiting afghanistan is long overdue.

i don't want to get into the question of how it was handled. i think it is too early to tell in some ways on the devasting front. i think you have to understand the structural problems that biden has confronted. the american relief plan was very important, the most consequential legislation since the new deal in terms of working people. it led to a reduction, due to the child tax credit, of 40% in the poverty rate. if that tax credit had continued, we would continue to see great gains in that area. federal reserve, antitrust, federal judicial appointments. this is domestic. the margins, the margins, johnson had big margins in the senate and the house, and so did roosevelt. i think biden, there is a lot of

talk about the roosevelt him. there is the new deal and the great society under lyndon johnson cannot be discounted, and that built the safety net. i think it is too early to tell on his grade. host: president biden came out wednesday to talk about the state of his agenda. this was as both of his major spending proposals and voting rights legislation stalled in congress. here is what biden said. [video clip] >> the american people overwhelmingly agree with me on prescription drugs. they agree with me on the cost of education. they overwhelmingly agree with me on childcare. we just have to make the case of what we are for and what the other team is not for. we knew all along that a lot of

this was going to be an uphill fight. one of the ways to do this is to make sure we make the contrast as clear as we can. one of the things i think we are going to have to do is make the case. i don't think there is anything unrealistic about what we are asking. i am not asking for castles in the sky. i am asking for practical things the american people have been asking for for a long time. i think we can get it done. >> you are not going to scale down any of these priorities. so far that strategy is not working. you have not been able to get some of these big legislative tickets done. >> i have done bigger than any other president. >> currently, your legislative package is not going anywhere. is there anything you are confident you can get signed into law before the midterm election? >> yes, i am confident we can get pieces, big chunks of the

build back better law signed into law. i am confident we can take to the american people the people they should be voting for to oversee whether elections are legitimate or not should not be those put up by republicans determined they are going to change the outcome of the elections. host: your reaction to president biden. guest: there is a lot going on. he is right that he has moved things. the fact that he owned up to how he had not understood how obstructionist the republicans have been was shocking to people because it has been so clear for months that you were not going to get a bipartisan buy-in to some of the legislation. i think he is right about the consequential legislation that has been passed. the big build back better has

been stymied miserably. the strategy is to break it into pieces. climate, childcare, i think he is right about the american people. the majorities show support for the issues he mentioned, especially government negotiating with medicare. we live in a country where there is majority support, but the structures enable minority arian -- my nora terr -- minoritarian power to obstruct that majority. i would be focusing as much as i could on the structural changes and reforms that need to be made in order to pass issues of consequence and support and popularity. i was also struck, the media at

the press conference was kind of a gotcha media. i know this is kind of a meme that the media is going tough on invited. -- on biden. sometimes they push to get what they want, but push in the case of afghanistan when biden made a so-called gaffe, a gaffe being truth, what if it is a small incursion into ukraine and if we step back from full-scale war, how could he? the frame of the questions in press conferences like this were kind of the suffocating consensus kind and often leading the president to take positions that were more gotcha than eliminating. that was part of what we heard. host: let's have some of our viewers take part in this

conversation. we start with chris calling from pittsburgh, pennsylvania. good morning. caller: i think that was an excellent point. i agree that their reaction to his statement sort of closed down the debate. he was being honest. anyways, i am wondering about the people of the ukraine and the people of russia. putin got his start in kiev. he is excellent at putting down dissidents. does he see ukraine as a bunch of young dissidents who got out of hand and he needs to put down? the zapper of prize was just given to alexei navalny. he was an eloquent and effective dissident. that is kind of his bailiwick,

putting down dissidents. guest: a very good question of who is putin. putin is really somebody from st. petersburg or leningrad who was an assistant to a reformer in the perestroika years in the late 1980's. he was considered a great democratic reformer. he got caught embezzling city funds and had to leave the country. putin assisted him. when the yeltsin family was looking for someone to replace yeltsin in 2000, they heard about this guy. there were other candidates. i say candidates because the first thing putin did when he was in power, appointed by yeltsin, was to give yeltsin's family immunity. i think putin has extended his

stay far too long. there is more oppression each month. when he came into power in 2000, the country was falling apart. it had fallen apart. very few states had fallen apart twice in the 20th century. you think of 1917, 1918, and again 1999. how you think about the 1990's in russia determines how you think about putin. the 1990's was the yeltsin era. the desperate poverty. the country falling apart. putin's first task, he said, was to restore the state. he created his own oligarchy after taking yeltsin oligarchs. he was a member of the kgb. george h w was head of the cia. i think the demonization of

putin is a full-time business. there is a reason to not demonize but to take on his oppression and record. when you demonize, you cut off debate, and you make it more likely to go to war. i think understanding, not at all condoning, is an important part of our political culture that we have lost a measure of in these years. host: let's talk to matthew calling from new jersey on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you, jesse. i agree with your guest on demonizing people, like saddam hussein, the disastrous, immoral, illegal war in iraq that mr. biden and the clintons, to be fair, did support. i would like your guest to address, please, i disagree with

her with regard to the current year of this president, mr. biden, on these points, if she can address them. the biden and harris open border where fentanyl pouring over like water has killed over 100,000 americans. thank you. i noticed you would not acknowledge that come as well as people with diseases they do not check. also the increase, and this is a serious issue that was not addressed at his news conference, increases in crime with the current leaning towards no cash/low cash bail. you have a young college student from ucla just stabbed to death by a 15 time repeat violent individual who was let go on a few hundred dollars bail. the police officer in new york

city just murdered another repeat criminal. if you could address this issue along with the inflation issue and the border. thank you. guest: on the crime issue, what is interesting is that new york city has recently elected a former police officer with eric adams who has vowed to be tougher on crime. i think -- it is -- people need to know they are secure. public security is critical to a successful society. i am not sure over incarceration , keeping people in jail because they cannot afford bail. there are a lot of measures that have been proven effective that are not "tough" on crime. these are measures that are hard

to develop in this moment when there is a rise in homicide. if you talk to cops, it is because they have to do stop and frisk, which is now illegal in many places, as it should be. they do broken window arrests as opposed to focusing on the more serious crimes. i think defund the police, as many of my colleagues agree, was a bad message. it is really about rethinking public security and using many of the funds, which are wasted in prisons and jails, to build public security. on the border, that is going to require real political work to think through. i cannot speak to the fentanyl. i can speak to the fact that during covid there have been thousands of deaths of despair, as they are described, and the complicity of corporations, especially sackler and purdue,

have come to light, the overproduction, overprescribing, pushing of drugs of drug dealers posing as corporate firms. i think he has handled it well, inflation. he has not done a paul volcker as jimmy carter did. he has got to keep it fluid in terms of the fed, good appointments to the fed. i do not know enough about it. the distribution cycles have been so bolloxed up as a result of covid that that is an element, as is the corporate consolidation that joe biden pointed to when he went to meatpacking plants a month or so ago. the antitrust movement is not to be denied. it is not just breaking up corporations. it is about political power in our society. it is related to the inflation.

when people feel that their paycheck is not going as far as it should, it is a very difficult moment. that is going to be key to biden's success. some of it is out of his control. managing that is going to be important. host: let's talk to john, who is calling from connecticut on the republican line. good morning. caller: good luck. nice job, washington post. thank you. i just wanted to make a statement about the surprising effort of joe biden's personal rerun of the mallet in the senate meeting. inc. you very much. -- thank you very much. guest: it interests me that c-span still has democrats, republicans, independents. i am a member of the quincy

institute, which bills itself as trans-partisan. there are elements around engagement with the world where there is more agreement. there are issues where one can agree and then vigorously disagree on others. host: let's talk to nate calling from parkville, maryland, on the democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning, jesse. ms. van hue, always mispronounce your name. sorry. host: you are on. caller: two points. first, i wanted to talk about lavrov, when she said he is reasonable and all this stuff. remember the meetings he had with trump and kislyak where they were laughing it up at the

white house in the first read out of that meeting was from russian media. moving beyond that to my other points, i just want to say as far as her quincy institute and all this stuff, i am worried about fascism here in the u.s. with the january 6 attacks and things like that. i want to give a shout out to in class with dr. carr. i think the washington journal should have him on for a true outside opinion as opposed to ms. vanden heuvel. i understand where she is coming from. why we are being so hard on russia is because i am considering putin being engaged in active measures. ukraine is also worrying issue.

guest: i want to say about lavrov, he and john kerry worked well together on averting the u.s. going to war in syria and also on climate. russia and china are going to be important, not only to resolving other conflicts, but the climate crisis cannot be resolved and treated as the existential crisis it is without participation of the major powers. american fascism is an existential crisis at this stage. we see a republican party that is willing to declare elections illegitimate if they do not win. they are funding state of lectures to countermand the election outcome. the steel devote movement, these are very dangerous -- the steal

the vote movement, these are very dangerous. we have to monitor them and mobilize. this attempt to divide the world between authoritarianism and democratic countries may not be as effective as looking at concrete issues that could contribute to authoritarianism and being honest about the weakness and fragility of our own democracy. when president biden went out on his democracy conference globally, a lot of people at home, well, we could not pass the voting rights bill, which is a shameful statement on a republican party that speaks on martin luther king jr. but decimates his ideas and legacy by their action. i don't think it is constructive to divide the world that way. it is going to lead to a new dividing line and even more

hardened positions and possibly even more dangerous authoritarians. i am thinking that through. it has been accepted quickly in a way that may not be as productive. host: let's talk to carson calling from ann arbor, michigan , on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. i just have about three comments. in your op-ed for the washington post, it seems to me that you were trying to portray some sort of both sides issue where the idea of -- just as responsible for ukraine as russia is. just allowing the possibility of a country joining an alliance is not the same as putting an army at their border and invading their country.

your idea that if we give russia all these concessions that they will suddenly stop their aggression, that is naive. that is what we try to do with hitler's. it did not work. history does not look kindly on the people who tried to appease hitler's. -- hitler. you said ukraine is not vital for our national security. maybe if it was just ukraine, it would not be. if we are weak in the face of putin, then him and president xi in china will look to come after us in other ways. guest: we have a different philosophy here. i think lessons of history are valuable, but not when they are the wrong lessons of history. there is too much about hitler'an -- hilter and neville chamberlain. this is about trying to draw a

strategic diplomatic resolution. the united states has played a role in ukraine. the nato expansion has fueled this proxy war. it is not reported in the media how many cia trainers, the amount of weapons we shipped to ukraine, which is certainly intervention. we messed around during the time of the coup in 2014. the sanctions have been interventionist. i am not drawing a moral equivalent. you need to think hard. how do we resolve this? is the endpoint because putin is aggressive we need to enter ukraine and take military action? the u.s. has been flying nuclear bombers, provocation in the black sea, which is underreported.

too often in this country where i believe debate is an all-american virtue we do not hear alternative views. it is one note when it comes to russia in the last many years. the appeasement i do not accept. i think it is a different time and different framework. i think the united states has played a role, as has nato, a military structure, in inciting where we are today. forgive me if i forget your third. someone once said to me never say i have three things. it was like rick perry at the republican debate where he forgot his third item. host: let's go to our next caller, joe on the democrat line. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i disagree with katrina on her

assessment of president biden. how could she give him an a and a b+? guest: i did not give him an a. i gave him an a-. caller: when his pulling is in the 30's. she is giving him a pass on fentanyl and the immigration problems at the border. she is giving him a pass on that. also, inflation she is giving him a pass on. i am disillusioned with people nation publication at this point. guest: i am probably less tough than some of my colleagues at the nation. it is a brutal time. we have not even talked about covid. covid, you could argue the messaging has been confusing.

fits and starts. president biden vowed to show confidence and clarity. in that context, that is probably more important at this stage, i regret to say, then the fentanyl issue. the opioid issue was the crisis of our country before covid, handled badly. i think you cannot blame it on biden. there are other structures and other forces. there is dark money, corporate money, fueling of these crises by forces that profit or gain. just in the same way it is wrong in my view to say putin, putin, putin because in russia there is an establishment which in some ways putin is a centrist because there are forces that are more aggressive, more militaristic

and want more action against the united states. the opposition to nato is not just putin. it was also yeltsin. that has been a long-running issue. a recent survey reported in the washington post showed ukrainians were largely opposed to u.s. actions, nato actions on their border. you cannot just do people. they are forces, and they are structures that limit or expand the possibility of change. you mentioned the nation. the idea of social movements has been central to change in this country. leadership does not take action alone. the fact that these issues are popular is because there has been social movement mobilization around them. host: let's see if you can squeeze in one more collar. sean calling from florida on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning.

i don't get how you say there is buy-in for child care and the voting rights act and build back better. 75 million americans voted for trump. these are socialist, extreme socialist plans that put people out of work. they destroyed our pipelines. they took away drilling. this guy is a complete disaster. host: -- guest: what is socialist? i am not a socialist. i am a new dealer. a new dealer is essentially what bernie sanders is. if you want to argue that, but i think taking care of kids -- here is a radical proposal, that everyone have good vision care, have hearing aids if needed, have dental care. i joke about this, but i think in the context of a government,

whatever size, government should improve the quality of people's lives. a lot of people do not trust government anymore. if every family had access to affordable hearing aids or for family student debt relief, these are things that are not socialist. they improve the quality of people's lives and make a healthier country. why do we have a defense budget that grows and grows, but we cannot take care of children or climate, which is about jobs for the future? we are not going to be the america we know if we do not invest in these important -- there is an idea that we spend all this money on military security. what about human security? host: we would like to think katrina vanden heuvel, editorial director of the nation and colonist of the washington post for being here this morning and

talking us through president biden's first year in office. thank you so much. guest: thank you. host: we would like to thank all of our guests, callers, and all of you for being with us for another edition of "washington journal." continue to stay safe. have a great sunday. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2022] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

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