looking for c-span essentials that will keep you warm? that is c-spanshop.org. but he's blanket, and mugs. there is something for every c-span fan. and every purchase help support our nonprofit organization. shop tuesday through monday at c-span shop.org. >> council with the campaign legal center and here this morning on washington journal to talk about the trading of stocks between members of congress and their families and their updates to update the stock act. >> let's take a look at it.

this is a bill that was passed. it was passed in 2012 and signed by president obama. this bill, as it stands, would outlaw insider-trading members of congress and their staff. it will mandate increased levels of financial transparency in reporting, and it prevent officials from participating in initial public offerings. what is behind the effort to update this law? if the law not currently working? >> the major high points of the stock act right now, we have a system that bans members from insider trading and requires them to disclose periodic transaction reports. they have to disclose their stock trades within 25 days of making a transaction. what we have seen over the past 10 years since this is been on

the books, not only has it not being enforced, it is also not enough. on the enforcement side, insider training is a very high bar. there has to be material not a public information, and there has to be a stock trade that has a nexus to that material of nonpublic information. it is very hard to prove and it is especially hard members of congress because they have constitutional protections throughout the coming occasions. it makes it challenging for investigators to really find instances of insider trading. that is one enforcement problem. we are seeing that members of congress are not always filing those disclosures on time or completely. it's a huge problem because the reason we have those disclosures is because the public has a right to know that members of

congress are acting in the public's interest and not their own personal financial interest. delays in that reporting or incomplete reporting means the public does not have the information that they have a right to. host: is there a specific committee in the house or senate that focuses on making sure that members financial trades and financial interests are in order and in line with what the stock act and other laws simulate? guest: in the house, we have the office of congressional -- they have the power to see violations and along as it is not a criminal violation, it would be taken over by the department of justice, then violations go to the house committee on ethics for final resolution. there is an element of self policing in the house.

in the senate, there is no independent investigatory body. it is entirely self policing. we have seen that this is not a system that works. we do not have a lot of enforcement. we also do not have a way to prevent other types of conflict of interest that fall short of insider trading. there is really no other law on the books. host: does the current stock act apply to family members of congress members? guest: it applies to vamp -- spouses and children. we think of people in the same house will having the same financial interests. host: wasn't known early on that after that bill that there was still a gaping flaw in terms of

its enforcement? guest: no, i think it is something we have really seen a lot more recently. with this disclosure, which is so important, we have more information than we have ever had before about congress is financial interest. it's amazing and the -- the public has a right to that information. with that increased disclosure and increased public scrutiny on what members of congress are trading and when, we are realizing the stock act is not enough to prevent was other conflicts of interest. think about a member of the inner-city being able to buy and sell stocks and electric vehicles or in coal or in oil and gas. that is currently allowed under law. that is of thing that is really coming to the forefront in recent years and has been come

to the front of mind of the public. it is not a good way to speak to the public's trust. host: is our senior legal counsel and we are focusing on the stock trades of members of congress and the efforts to update the stock act. we welcome your calls and comments at (202) 748-8000. tell us about your organization. what is your organization's mission? caller: we are nonpartisan. our commitment is to the voters. we are casting their voice and the democratic process. regardless of political party. we work across four issue areas. voting rights, redistricting,

and government ethics. host: comments of the speaker of the house nancy pelosi came out in support of updating, revising be stock act after -- some change to it. what you have to say about the speaker slot? >> i am always in favor and trusting our members. there is an impression given by some that somebody is doing insider trading, that is a justice department issue. that has no place in any of this. to give a blanket attitude of we cannot do this, we cannot do that because we cannot be trusted, i do not buy into that. i would add and this is the last thing i will say on this, do you

know that the supreme court, we in the house have disclosure and we have the stock act which says if you sell a stock, you have to report it in next number of days. if not, there is a number of penalties. should the penalties be greater is subject to review. i don't know why people don't do it on time, but whatever it is, there is a penalty and it should be severe. the united states supreme court where decisions are made, they infect -- affect our environment and our works out -- workforce, every subject you can name at the mercy of the court, economic issues and the rest, no disclosure whatsoever and certainly no stock act. host: does it sounds you like

the fixing of the stock act is a priority of nancy pelosi's? guest: it sounds like there are some quirks about the courts not having disclosure. there has been bipartisan support for reforming the way that members of congress trade individual stocks. we have people asking conservatives as senator hawley about trading stocks. this is a very popular type of reform and the fact that people are worried about corruption in government surrounding stock trading is a huge problem and it is not just a problem for the justice department.

it is critical that we have trust in our government and we should not be left to wonder if members of congress who have a lot of power and a lot of influence and a lot of access to sensitive information, are using that power and that access for their own personal bottom line. we should be able to trust that they are acting in the public's interest. voters have a right to know that. the fact that people in tiktok are following members of congress trade to gain their own portfolios because they think that lawmakers have inside information that the rest of us don't, that is a huge problem. it really good way to fix that is to restrict members of congress from being able to trade individual stocks and play the stock market while they pick based on legislation and other work that they do.

i think there is a crucial need for reform right now and it has bipartisan support. host: lawmakers call on pelosi and mccarthy to bring stock trading band to the floor. they talk about a letter signed by 25 democrats and two republicans. let's go to calls. we will hear first from brent and quincy, michigan. caller: good morning. my comment is that with the conflict of interest of trump and his cabinet members got away with, what we expect? even government of the federal reserve have been accused of insider trading and what we see is when subpoenas are handed out , they are just given the finger

and ignored. it's a downward spiral in our present situation. host: addressing the broader issues of problems in the government. guest: i think that is a good way to look at the current problem in they could wait to see why reform right now is so necessary. during trump administration, there were a lot of conflict of interest from cabinet level officials and on down. he did see the tone from the very top, president trump, not being very respectful of ethics laws like the hatch act. which was customary.

i think what you see with that is a degradation of public trust. that is why this reform is so necessary. it has bipartisan support, it is very popular, and it would do a lot to us weighed some of those concerns. i lawmakers and most powerful people in government are not acting in the best interest. it does not have to be this way. they're very simple and popular fixes. host: to raymond in burlington, vermont. caller: i have a question here. a lot of these congressmen have portfolio managers who make decisions in the best interest of the congressman or whoever is holding that account. how do you enforce it when they congressman is saying, i did not make this decision. the hedge fund made this

decision or my portfolio manager made this decision. a lot of people are too busy to do these individual trading on their own. the second question i have is how do you avoid having this used as a political weapon on one party against the other party? how is this different from what happened to martha stewart a few years ago? guest: i think the first question was about how we enforce it when members of congress have portfolio managers. people who do the stock trading for them. it is a good question and we see that excuse a lot come up when members of congress are late to file their reports. do not file it within the 45 day window of the stock trade, or the 30 day window of getting notified of a trade.

that is part of the law contemplate. congress may have financial advisors who we then tell in your portfolio so active stock and you need to report that. the law does come -- contemplate this. the law applies regardless of whether or not you have a financial advisor. you're still required to know what is in your portfolio and if you have a brokerage apart -- account, you are still required as a member of congress because you have that duty as a member of the public. you have a response ability of knowing when stocks are being traded and what those stocks are. if we can't trust that members of congress are going to know that and going to trade on time or report their trades on time, it seems most prudent to take

that out of the equation. take individual stock trading out of the equation. require those to be in some other sort of financial vehicle that does not give them or their financial advisors who are acting on the member's best interest, not the public's -- public's best interest. i don't know if aaron for the second question. host: the second part was the bill being used as a political tool against the other party if it is updated or revised, is that a potential downside of this. guest: i don't think so. i can be legal center last year, we filed 13 complaints against members of congress against the stock act. folks from all political stripes

are highlighting the stock act so this upgrade is not targeting any political parties or any specific member of congress. it is just trying to tackle a big problem that is happening across the board by members of congress from all political strife. i don't think anybody would accuse folks trying to pass these as political targeting. this is widespread bipartisan. host: i'm not sure about his third point about martha stewart. she was convicted of insider trading and certain time in jail for that. guest: i am not super familiar with that so i don't think i should answer that. host: how does the legal center decide to take action against a member of congress for insider trading? guest: we have not identified

insider trading, but that is one of the good things about these disclosures. we have this information and contest all members that are filing late or have egregious late filings that looks like perhaps the late was intentional. that is really where the problems come in. it is very hard to tell if this was simply an oversight, oh, i missed this date. i otherwise always file my transactions on time or if there was maybe potentially something going on underneath the surface they did not want to report the transaction for some reason. the fact we have to ask those questions and wonder about that and piece together what the

motives of a trade might be really brings on the necessity for reform. we should not have to be trying to wonder what the intentions were behind a specific stock trade if it has to go to a committee hearing or something else. we really would love to see some restrictions on individual stock trading. we don't have to file as many complains. host: hearing from michael. caller: good morning. first of all, i think that the young lady, your organization has left the barn door open and the horses ran out. reporting on the stock trades is not a problem. they are all, every member of congress, they are all guilty. they are come in all.

how is it -- they are criminals. how is it that when biden spent his whole life in congress and when he ran for president he said he was a poor person from pennsylvania or wherever, and now he's a multimillionaire. all of these people are crooks. they steal from us with insider trading. we have to have our term limits. they serve one term and then they should be let out and they should be held criminally liable for the rest of their lives for anything they ever did wrong while they were in office. the only way to cure this. the country is already gone. it's. host: if you pass this law, we will not be term limits. the person says they will hang

around washington if they cannot get rich. guest: i would like to say that members of congress are not criminals. i'm not saying that at all. i think the perception that there is corruption in washington is a problem for the public's trust. we need the public to trust that their government is working in their best interest and not in the interest of the individual lawmakers bottom line. the fact of this perception exists is a problem. we should be able to talk to voters as members of the public that there is not corruption going on in that the power and influence being used is being used to make our lives better. the fact that we are seeing more

and more of the problems of individual stock trading by members of congress, that we are seeing this conflict of interest come up again and again, we are seeing congress not follow the law as it stands, shows that we really need this role form and that it is a critical point in time to secure the public's trust. host: going to gordon. caller: they give themselves raises for inflation. we did and even give them term limits. we need to put term limits on to clear out the old congress and get better ideas that the young people with good ideas. i am young myself, and it has been my whole life following politicians.

guest: i think we as voters trust ourselves to elect the leader we want to elect and then make sure that our voices are heard in the democratic process, then, once those folks get elected, we need to hold them accountable that they were use their power for the public good. there is a problem right now where members of the public are very skeptical of their leaders and that does not have to be that way. there are reforms that we can implement that will help some of this trust that has been eroded be restored.

i think congressional stock trading is a huge gap that we need to fill and one way we could do that is by restricting members of congress from trading individual stocks so that members of the public do not have to think that there is corruption going on and they are lining their own pockets and stealing from us. there is simple reforms that can go a long way. host: the seen egregious cases where members have traded in stocks and companies have supported their campaign? guest: we haven't looked into that specific issue, but we have certainly seen members of congress by stocks and industries overseas, there is a lot of high-profile coverage of

mansion trades or assets in fossil fuels while he is overseeing climate change policies. those are the kind of things that we see fairly often and conflict of interest are a huge problem. caller: you mentioned from the legal center where you're at earlier, it may be wonder, i'm sorry if you said this, what the scope is of your work because there is a guest on recently that kind of explained that the house stopped expanding at one point. that made me wonder about the scope of action that people can bring in the courts for members of congress. i hear a lot of people talking about term limits. if not at your legal center, can you come forward to people who are interested about learning

about those actions broadly? guest: in terms of bringing a case against congress, i am not sure what that might look like, that and campaign legal center, but we are a watchdog. a congressional watchdog. we got as much information as we can about this case and the finances of members of congress. the stock trades they are making. we determine if there might be a legal violation there. then we file complaints with the house, the office of congressional ethics. we try to get a resolution through those channels. i don't know that there is a way to bring action against a member of congress or whether there is a way --host: in general, the

stock act itself would be in forced by the justice department? guest: they be enforced by the farming of justice. -- department of justice. caller: i just want to comment on one of the previous caller and the biggest color before them. -- color before them. i believe term limits something worth looking at. i want the american people to know collectively that no matter what it looks like, if we as a country, as a people, we can change things. we are the final voice in all of this and we know that there is corruption. we know that there are things that are happening that are happening without our knowledge.

we know things are happening, but what disturbs me is somebody doing something, how long the legal process takes to get them convicted. it seems like a long, drawn out process. that's the part that disturbs me. host: thank you jeff. guest: i think you hit on something super important there. the voters do have the power. this is a very popular reform. this is something that voters are concerned about corruption in congress. voters have a right to know that members of congress are using that power and influence with the public interest. not their personal financial interest.

in order to protect that trust, we need to restrict members of congress from trading individual stocks. a simple reform back convoy very long way. host: briefly, we have been focusing on congress. are there similar restrictions in place in the executive branch, from rivers of the ministration -- for members of the administration? guest: yes. they are not permitted to insider trading. they also have to disclose their stock trades. they also have a more robust conflict of interest laws and rules than the legislative branch, so the executive branch are brief required to refuse from any particular matter that would affect their financial interest. there is a much stronger company of interest protection there. host: thank you so much for

joining us here on washington journal. guest: thank you so much for having me. >> the layout of his vision for the coming year. watch live coverage in jackson mississippi today at 5 p.m. eastern on c-span. our line online at c-span.org. c-span now. >> live on c-span friday, the common sent -- common sense society has live coverage beginning with liberty america had 10 a.m.. then we hear from psychologist jordan peterson at 1 p.m.. later, florida governor speaks to the dinner at 8 p.m..

watch live at c-span.org or on our video app c-span now. >> sunday, february 6, they talk about race relations, and inequality in america. the agitators daughter, and her latest, -- life sunday, february 6 at noon eastern. on book tv on c-span two. book tv, every sunday on c-span2. features leading offers discussing her latest nonfiction books. at 2 p.m. eastern, this expert

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