at 3:00 p.m. a subcommittee looks at how corporate bankruptcy can be used to avoid liability lawsuits. this morning on washington journal.

good morning it is tuesday, february 8. the house and senate are both in. president biden is set to make remorse on rebuilding american manufacturing. we will begin today outside of washington dc. for more states announced timelines for resuming mass mandates. now just mostly blue states have

mass mandates. we are getting your reactions to mask mandates. if you support resuming mask made -- mandates. that number is (202) 748-8000, if you disapprove that number is (202) 748-8001, and you can also catch up with us on social media http://twitter.com/cspanwj a very good tuesday morning with you you can go ahead and start calling and now. this is the story from npr. the oregon said state that --set to lift mass mandates.

the story noting some of the timelines. they are ending the mask mandates on february 28 and on march seventh statewide mask mandates will be lifted in new jersey, and oregon and delaware those are said to be lifted on march 30 first. those are the timelines. basically we will set with new jersey. the governor at a press conference yesterday. >> we would not be doing this if we did not recommend we could lifted but you have to know your own health situation. if you have a comorbidity or a district thinks there is an outbreak in that community all other things being equal, a healthy child going to school

they can go without a mask on march seventh. you have to reserve the right to the district, a district reserves the right to keep something in place. and secondly, individual based on their own right reserves that right and we cannot stigmatize a decision like that. we are trying to get, given all the unpopular decisions, politician -- politics was on the front burner. you are trying to get a whole bunch of data strings together and make the best call you can and so it is a combination of cases, hospitalizations, positivity rates of transmission all going dramatically in the right direction. it is trying to project out what those data streams look like weeks ahead of time.

it is acknowledging that vaccination rates continue to creep up among kids who are more recently eligible, not as fast as we like but slowly and surely. the committee is likely to approve vaccines for kids under five years old. that combination has given us the sense that plus or minus a month from now is the right time to do it. we are dealing with a pandemic, it's like dealing with mother nature you are due the best you can. this feels right to us. host: governor phil murphy at that press conference. you can watch the rest of that briefing at our website at c-span.org. this map at state policy,

showing the 16 states that have statewide school mask mandates. that has now dropped to 12 in march due to that announcement. delaware, new jersey, and oregon. we are taking your phone calls we want to hear your thoughts. whether you support them, (202) 748-8000 if you oppose (202) 748-8001 and if you are in new jersey, oregon or delaware (202) 748-8003. it was jen psaki who was asked about that new jersey move, here is her response. >> that still remains our recommendation.

>> are you fine with the new jersey's recommendation? quek it continues to be that the cdc is advising that masks can delay, reduce transmission. there are also a lot of mitigation measure but that continues to be cdc guidance. it has always been up to local school districts. >> what does this say that it could be ahead of the cdc recommendation? >> it is always been up to the school district and our policy is to advise everyone to abide by public guidelines. >> do you thinks that it it is time for a change in the public policy? >> there has been a decrease in hospitalizations around the

country and again, we are in constant touch about what it looks like moving forward. our responsibility as the federal government is to rely on the data and we will rely on that for the red -- recommendations we are making. host: we are getting your reaction this morning and for states, we specifically want to talk to residents of delaware, new jersey, oregon. we will start out of north miami beach. caller: good morning c-span, good morning america. with these mask on, you are breathing carbon dioxide. with the wi-fi router it

will be a pretext to quarantine them, force vaccinate them. kids have the best immune system. host: do you have kids? caller: i have three nieces and nephews. i don't want schools with wi-fi routers with frequencies like they have been high-rises. host: we are talking about masking mandates. statewide school masking mandates is the conversation this morning. dana from michigan. caller: good morning. host: we are talking about the

lifting of these school masking mandates in the schools that still have them. caller: i don't think we should encourage people not to wear masks. i think we should encourage everyone to get vaccinated. if you consider the possible origins of the virus, dictators so to speak, this is their way of trying to get at us. we have to get it right. host: this is not trying to encourage people not to wear masks. in new jersey, school districts can still decide on masking on mandates in specific school districts and outbreaks or

spreads. a connecticut it can be decided by school district. this happens to happen for every school in the state. they can make their own choices. caller: i agree with that, it is beyond that. i am ago above and beyond kind of person. everyone wear your mask. use all the trouble that they had in texas when he said that. we have to keep our country strong. someone is responsible for unleashing this coronavirus on us in the first place. host: when you say to wear our mask how long do we do that? caller: this is a worldwide thing, this is a pandemic. we are not in a bubble here in

the united states. we should just keep doing it until we are in the clear. i think it is going to be for two, three more years. our lives are at stake. consider the source from where the coronavirus initiated. host: from the governors themselves tweeting about these mask mandates and schools. from governor john carney, we are lifting our mask mandates, the mask mandate included schools k-12. we are in a much better place than we were several weeks ago. his tweet yesterday morning. the governor from connecticut saying that we have made considerable progress and people from connecticut have many tools to keep them safe that is why as

of february 28 mask mandates will be decided by the school districts and not the states. our commissioners at the public health department and education department discussed it at length and we arrived in the decision together. the governor of connect --connecticut making his announcement at the same time as the governor of delaware and new jersey. these moves happening across the country and we are getting your reaction this morning. next from's bow can, washington. caller: i can't believe we ever put these kids in masks. masks are very ineffective in the spread of this disease.

children were never at risk of dying at this disease unless they had underlying conditions. the whole thing was insane as far as i am concerned. host: do you have kids? caller: they are grown. the damage we have done to our children keeping them out of school and then making them wear masks. it is insane. host: washington is one of those states that made that announcement, to connecticut. caller: i am not in favor of it. our positivity rate has gone down recently. it could go up in storage --

surge at any time. my niece passed away just on sunday of covid and she was 30 years old. she was vaccinated but she was around people who were not vaccinated and it is very sad and heartbreaking. i have been trying since this whole thing started to get people where there masks and to get vaccinated and i think it is premature for the governor of connecticut and other states to lift the mandate. host: out of tennessee. good morning. caller: i don't support any mandates and schools. i live in a state that banned

all mask mandates. i think it is completely political. we knew that they would in the mandate just in time for the elections to get rolled out because they are taking so much heat for enforcing these mandates. when was the last time you heard joe biden here wear our mask? --where mask? we know it is political. we know what is going to happen. they put our kids in masks to beat donald trump. i watched msnbc this morning, oh

what masks have done to our children. she hasn't been worried about it for two years. desantis have stopped their mandates and all they have caught is grief. but now, the democrats are not receiving the same bad press. host: glenn youngkin made banning districts --banning mask mandates an issue. randi weingarten, she said that

she wants guidelines from the cdc about when and how, she worries that policymakers could be changing the rules for the wrong reasons. >> we knew there needed to be in offramp for mask mandates but it has to be informed by metrics and science and not politics. host: the viewer was asked by joe biden statements on this. he was asked in a recent interview what life looks like after covid and here is a bit of that exchange. >> based on your conversation with your health advisor, what kind of restrictions do you see on americans this time next year?

biden: i hope the new normal will be that we still don't have masks 13 months after being vaccinated. i hope people have taken advantage of what we have available. with the pill that appears to be as efficacious as it seems to be that we will be able to deal with this virus in a way that will have you will have the ability to not get very sick. number three, i would hope that the rest of the world does what i am doing and provide significant amount of the vaccine to the rest of the world because it is not efficient if we just have this country not have the virus or be under the control of the virus because we don't --we can't build a wall

high enough to keep the virus out. we -- how do we move in a direction where the world itself is vaccinated? it is not enough just to vaccinate three hundred 40 million people in the united states. that is not enough. host: president biden talking about what a new normal might look up --like. the timelines for the mask mandates in four states delaware, new jersey connecticut and oregon. cindy, good morning. caller: i do support a mask mandate. i think governor lamont has been

pretty evenhanded but it is an election year for him. i believe someone that this is political. the cdc has been wrong on a lot of stuff. given the head of the cdc, i am not so sure. host: what makes you think they are squashing studies? caller: i did see a report today about how they did kanas study in june of 2021 because they were not getting the results that they wanted to promote the mandate. there are a lot of countries that need to be way ahead of us on a lot of things. we are not doing a lot of randomized studies that we

should be doing. lamont did that caveat for the school districts to decide ultimately. i don't know if the same thing that is happening here that they are in virginia. i don't know if the same result is going to happen here. i do support it, it is bad for the kids. we have known it for a long time. i think it is a good thing. i just hope, i wish we would stop using each other's political foot walls. -- footballs. host: you brought up virginia, what is happening with the

republican governor happening there. this is paul from virginia. caller: i would like to say that you took a lot of heat yesterday and you did a really good job. host: your thoughts on this mask mandate? caller: the thing in virginia is , it is mainly the way of challenging governor youngkin's lifting of the mask mandate. it is d.c. beltway and the interesting thing that got me is when you show the map of the few states that have school mask mandates.

it is amazing how when four democrat held areas are getting all this press coverage and praise for lifting the mandates when many of these states have been way ahead of this and have been following the science and not the political jargon from the cdc and the white house. host: you think in the last 24 hours they have gotten of applause for this? caller: it's been all about them and how amazing it is, and it's about time. the media is saying it's about time that they did this in the great job that they are all doing for putting out this timeline. it is just amazing, with the

midterms coming up that they have done this and started listening to the science. host: take a look at that map again it will pop up on your screen in a second. the states and purple are the states that have specific bands on mask mandates and some of those date back many months. we have heard the ones in texas and florida. i wonder what your sense was of the coverage on those bands on schoolwide mask mandates? caller: on those statewide school mandates, though states and purple -- states in purple,

i believe they should go back to letting the local school districts handle the local issues. that is what they have always said. i come from a family of educators, and to me, the federal government needs to let the states handle their own educational system and return it back to the local localities. host: if alexandria are the inside the beltway and they want to have a mask mandate regardless of a vaccination status, would you be ok with that for arlington and alexandria is that what you're saying?

caller: i believe it should be left to the local school boards. the local school boards are elected. i am down in tidewater and right now it is down to the schools. they are following the governor's decision. i have two grandchildren, one in kindergarten and one of fifth-grade and they are doing just fine right now. it is really a good thing. now again, with the mask mandates, i think they are out of control and it is become too political. it is time the politics came out of it and let people make their

own risk assessments. caller: this is a leo in illinois. host: my sister died from the covid virus. she was at a birthday party with my grandchild and she was there just long enough to eat the cake . i was around a person here, i can't get vaccinated and neither could she. we can't get vaccinated because we have a medical condition

where we can't. i was around the person where he had the virus and i did not know it and i was wearing and n95 mask. the masks do help. those kids in school, they don't wear the masks half the time. their noses exposed, it is around their chin. you can't get the little kids to wear the masks right half of the time. but i do think that masks help. host: thank you for the call. this is earl from georgia. caller: good morning. i just want to make a comment. there is one thing i would like

to say, people always complain about this and that. if people were to actually take the time and obey the laws we would be in better shape. i have three grandkids in atlanta, georgia, in school. in my grandchild is on the honor roll and she always wears her mask. people want to put politics into stuff. if you are not the one to take power over your mind to do the right thing, we will be ok. what got us into the

problem today. because we are blaming the leaders of the country. yes, i agree to it, this mask mandate, to a certain extent, until the number goes down, because i do not want my grandkids are going to school and get sick behind a child who cannot wear a mask. he cannot go to school coughing and stuff. if a parent knows their child is coughing and lets the child go to school and get someone also, i will fight that parent for it. host: 7:30 on the east coast. in this first hour, talking about statewide school mask mandates. more states making announcements they will be sunsetting their statewide mask mandates, mostly blue states that still have the statewide mask mandates for

schools. in connecticut, the governor ending the mandate in schools and childcare centers on february 28. in new jersey, it is effective march 7. in delaware and oregon, march 31. showing statements from governors on the east coast. from oregon governor -- oregon's governor -- because of your actions, she says, oregon will lift mask requirements no later than march 31. that is the statewide requirement. many of these requirements, including the ones in new jersey and connecticut, allowing individual school systems to bring back mask mandates if they deem them necessary in response to surges, but we are talking about the statewide mask mandates.

getting your reaction on full nights for, those who oppose, and a special line for residents of connecticut, delaware, oregon, and new jersey. caller: good morning. i work in an elementary cafeteria. i think it is so harmful for these children to have these masks on. they eat their lunch. they do not wipe their faces. they put their masks back on. it is so harmful for these little children. working in an elementary building, people who think these children should keep their masks on, maybe they should experience being around little children with their masks on. one day, i heard this little girl upset because some little boy got near her. they are afraid to be near each other now. i am just so excited they will get rid of this mask mandate

someday soon, i hope. it is really very harmful mentally and physically to these children. host: ask for the call. in new york, here is the latest, reporting from the wall street journal. a judge in long island temporarily suspended the state's mask mandate, saying legislators need approval from -- saying there needs to be approval from the state legislator. -- legislature. the governor saying she hopes to get to a place where schools can lift mask mandates but she wants to see a higher rate of vaccination among elementary age children. that is the latest from there. back to the garden state, this is janine. good morning. caller: good morning. i definitely support dropping the mask mandate at school.

i am a parent of a 4-year-old and 2-year-old. my four-year-old son does attend public school. it is heartbreaking, seeing all these young children walking around with a mask on their face all day long. they do not wear it properly. most of them are wearing a piece of cloth over their face, which does nothing to stop the virus. back when this started, coming out with covid, the government said you must wear an n95 mask. those are the ones that will protect you. then they changed their mind and said just put a piece of cloth over their face, because people did not have access to an n95 mask. the government was just giving people a false sense of security. these children are getting scared of adults have a 2-year-old who has been born into this pandemic. that is only thing she knows, walking around, seeing adults with masks on their faces.

children are developing more and more speech delayed. children are developing more and more upper respiratory infections because they are constantly breathing and the germs. it is not healthy. teachers took a job teaching knowing they will be around children with germs. germs are little german factories. the masks need to go. you cannot be hiding around a mask and give parents a salt -- parents a false sense of security that your child is safe at school. schools have germs in them here that has been known ever since schools have started. children go to school, they get sick, spread germs -- host: do you mind if i ask? we, at some point, are expecting vaccines to be approved for the youngest kids, the 0 to 5 year olds. still waiting on the data, but it seems to be moving in that direction. your kids are in that age range. would you get your kids vaccinated when it becomes

available? caller: absolutely not. i will not vaccinate myself. i do not believe in these vaccines that were pushed so rapidly. there was no long-term study done about this. everybody who says it is safe, they are lying to you. the government is trying to give you a false sense of security, pushing these vaccines. you cannot vaccinate yourself out of this pandemic. the covid-19 is here to stay. thanks, china, for giving it to us. people need to understand this is going to be here. pharmaceutical companies want to keep a sick. they do not want to keep us healthy, or else they will not make money. host: one more question -- with your children, did you get them vaccinated for the other series of childhood vaccines, measles, mumps, rubella, all the other ones kids get in their first couple of years? caller: absolutely, because

those are true vaccines. it is not a get vaccinated and then just get a mild case of it. that is nonsense. you really have to think about the pharmaceutical companies. they pushed this too soon. they say it is free -- it is not free. i absently get my children vaccinated. i am not an anti-vaxxer. i'm an anti-this-vaccine. what about that super spreading aids prevalent in the netherlands? this is creating more and more health problems. you cannot just keep getting a booster shot and booster shot and thinking this will make you better. people at high risk, absolutely get it. it is a good step for you. people such as myself and my family, we do not need this vaccine. just keep washing your hands, practice good hygiene. if you have a little runny nose, stay home. stay away from other people. host: taking your phone calls. phone lines, if you support

lifting statewide school mask mandates, (202) 748-8001. if you oppose, (202) 748-8000. a phone line for those books in specific states where this news was happening yesterday, new jersey, connecticut, delaware, and oregon. yesterday on this program, we were joined by an epidemiologist at johns hopkins university, and we talked about masks for kids at schools. [video clip] >> i have two kids at school. my daughter is in kindergarten. she has been wearing a mask in a school setting for those three years now. i do not love it, but they are still wearing it. right now, i think it is offering some operational advantages in terms of our kid'' schools have not closed down in this recent wave of cases. i am grateful for that.

i am also grateful that, when i hear of cases that the schools, i can take part of my worries because they are vaccinated and wearing a mask, i am able to brush it off, it is not a big deal. i think it is important to figure out when we can get masks off of our kids sooner rather than later. but i think it is not a simple fact passing absolutely, yes, now. we have to make sure teachers feel safe, that adults in the school feel safe. one, because it is safe, but also it is pragmatic. the magic that happens in the classroom is because the teachers are there happily are not feeling like they are there under duress. it is really important for us to consider the factors, the feelings of multiple parties in the classroom. even though my risk tolerance for my kids may be higher than others' would be, i do not know if there are other kids in the classrooms who have medical vulnerabilities -- i think it is

a little bit more of a complicated issue than the headlines portray. but i think we, as a society and as a community, need to define when to take off masks and do it sooner rather than later. host: jennifer nuzzo from johns hopkins university. that was yesterday on this program. if you want to watch that in its entirety, you can do so at our website, c-span.org. back to your phone calls. vivian from pine bluff, arkansas, you are next. caller: good morning. i just wanted to make a couple of observations. i am in a state where we have, so far, identified almost 800,000 total cases with almost 1000 added just yesterday. we are just coming off of a

second spike. people are still dying. we have had a total of almost 10,000 deaths in our state. people forget, when we shut down the schools, we did not know what the impact was on children in our state. thankfully, we have only had two pediatric -- recorded pediatric covert tests. -- covid tests. but we still do not have total vaccine protection for our children. i think we are still suffering from misinformation and fear and politicize -- politicization from the last administration. individuals making statements about how horrible -- harmful the mask mandate is.

this little thing called science says masks do help prevent the spread of the virus, period. we know that the vaccine is working. we have truth that people who are still contracting the virus, people who are still hospitalized by the virus, people who are still dying from the virus, and, in some cases, more children than others, more than not, most of those people, over 90% of the people being affected are those not vaccinated. host: that is vivian in arkansas. you were talking about some of the numbers in your state. nationwide, we are at 9,300,864 deaths from the pandemic.

there was a scene yesterday, a moment of silence for the 900,000 american lives lost to covid-19. speaker nancy pelosi standing there with other congressional lawmakers, holding that moment of silence. if you want to watch that, you can do so at our website, c-span.org. barry in williamsburg, virginia. you are next. caller: good morning. i support the lifting of the mandates. i do not really support mandating. i believe, if you feel it is your life in danger, you should wear a mask. that should be your own common sense. the state may encourage you or the governor may encourage you, but we act like a penal colony, where every thing has to be

penalized do not do anything. i have comorbidities, so i have to get the vaccine, but i cannot say mandating it to everybody. host: on vaccine mandates, the vast majority of systems in this country require children to have a whole series of vaccines to be able to come to public schools. are you ok with those mandates? caller: sure, if the problem that you are vaccinating against has a higher death rate or something, like a 25% death rate, i can understand that. but most times, 90% of the time, they need to simply encourage you to do something, not mandate anything. host: we are at a seven day average of 2,685 americans dying every day of covid-19. does that concern you, that

level? caller: a lot of people die every day. it is just now the reason they are dying is probably conditions plus covid. but we need to worry more about homelessness and stuff. host: this is shown in harvey, illinois, good morning. caller: good morning. i do not want to see the state regulate or do anything without the science. first of all, the federal government should be running the whole thing, simply because -- i was here in 1955 when dr. jonas salk came out with the polio vaccine. and when he came out with polio, they took it to the schools.

they vaccinated all the children. they did not ask the parents, just went ahead and vaccinated them. after that, it was gone. nobody talked about polio anymore. they still do not talk about polio. the thing is they politicized this thing pay this thing has been kicked around like a football. when we came back from vietnam, fighting for the rights of the vietnamese people, we came back home, states would not let us go. when you leave it to the states, like mississippi, alabama, georgia, we couldn't even vote, but we were fighting over there in vietnam. host: on the issue of mask mandates in schools, do you think that should be something the federal government should say yes or no to every student, nationwide? that is what you're saying? caller: that is right. just like what they were going to do the swine flu, when carter was in there -- host: what would you say to somebody says the school system,

the crowding of schools, the spacing issues are different in a city like new york city then in a rural school in montana and that mask mandates should be different for those two systems? caller: the science -- it should totally be controlled by the federal government. the science would be the same. it will be the same each time for all of the vaccinations. there would be no different one in alabama and a different one in mississippi. just let the federal governor -- come -- just let the federal come in and do it. host: this is blair's town, new jersey. your thoughts on your governor's move? caller: what is wrong with him

doing it now? i guess it is a start. the point i am trying to make is, at last week, a johns hopkins study came out saying that these lockdowns only help one for a percent of stopping covid. they knew this, so why do they keep doing it, and why does the mainstream media keep covering this? it is upsetting our kids have to wear these masks when they are breathing in dirty, recycled air. they are not always using brand-new masks. it should have been done a long time ago. but it is a step. one thing you got to remember -- the democrats are the ones who wanted these lockdowns are they one of these mask mandates and the vaccine mandates. that is undeniable. the democrats did this. host: on that johns hopkins study you talked about, we talked about that yesterday, we played a clip a while ago with jennifer nuzzo of johns hopkins university.

we asked about that study, if you're interested, and your response to it. you can just search "nuzzo" in the search bar of our webpage, c-span.org, and watch that segment if that is something you want to look into more. shirley, new york city, good morning. shirley, you with us? this is rudy, douglas, georgia. good morning. caller: good morning. i am 100% in support of maintaining that mask mandates. my wife is a schoolteacher here in georgia. they give the students here the option. she has had kids coming in coughing whose parents refused to allow them to wear our mask, and it jeopardizes her health and the health of the other students. i am a pastor, and we ask our parishioners to wear our mask.

sunday, one young lady used to wear our mask and refused to have her children wear our mask, so i will counsel with her on the efficacy's of wearing a mask -- efficacies of wearing a mask. then i will give her the option to listen to us on youtube or facebook, because this is just a precaution. what i think really happened is when the last administration frequently ignored the idea of wearing masks, it misled people. i am up to 50 personal friends, people i knew well in high school and college, fellow pastors, who have died from this vaccine -- virus. i'm up to 50. this thing is real. host: as a pastor, you talk about the 50 people you know who have died of this. we passed in an hundred thousand americans who have died of this

in mark that moment yesterday on the steps of the capitol. according to the latest number, 900,000 americans have died of this. as a pastor, if members of your congregation come up and ask why this is happening, what do you say to them? caller: because what god is trying to do is let the world know that there is more to the word of god than prosperity and money and the name it and claim it, snatch it and grab it. he wants us to love one another, work with one nerve either -- work with one another, and god has shut the whole thing down all over the world, trying to get man to be more humane and loving toward one another. the bible tells us that we are

to love one another, pray for those who spitefully use ours. we have gotten away from christian biblical principles to this whole concept of everything centered around morality and everything is right. i think it is a sign from god that he wants us to come back to him and treat each other the way the bible says we should treat one another. host: what do you say if they ask how many more have to die for man and woman to learn that lesson? caller: this at part about it is satan is the author of deception. it is satan's job to trick and deceive us. you remember in the bible, where moses said, god said if you

look up, you will live. some people were -- the other thing that happened to us was, with this 24 hour media, you almost need to be a linguist. i am a college graduate, and i have to almost use all the energy i have just to decipher all these mixed messages that go on 24 hours a day, seven days a week, on your webpage, facebook, your television, your cell phone. it is like going through a gauntlet full of smoke. basically, this virus has killed over 900,000 people, and for people to be cavalier about that number is shameful. host: this is barbara out of ohio. go ahead, ma'am. caller: yes. retired teacher here.

i do appreciate the freedom that we have to call in. my statement is we are talking about a mask mandate, not vaccinations, which you keep referring to. let's talk about the mask mandate. back when it first started -- i said let's watch the store. let's watch people with these masks. constantly, they touched and touched and touched them. then they would touch the doors, touch stuff in the store, all of it. all they were doing was spreading the virus with these masks, constantly touching the masks, breathing on it, spreading the germs. the masks spread germs. they did not help. host: bernie in pennsylvania,

your next. caller: good morning. everyone should get in basic facts. for the last 20 years, the third leading cause of f in america is from the medical establishment, with their prescription drugs, vaccines, wrong protocols, exercise at hospitals, etc. for some reason, with all of these lockdowns, mandates, protocols to protect us -- that is what they are using. that is a very nice, disguised way to brainwash people -- they have caused many people today to be part of pavlov's dogs. they are all in lockstep, when

you see them still wearing masks , to get in line to get vaccinated, without knowing what they are putting into their bodies, without knowing that no mask can prevent a very minute macron virus, prevent it from going into your body by inhaling or exhaling. host: eric in buffalo, new york, good morning. your next. caller: -- you are next. caller: good morning kate i support masks. you said it right off about the numbers of dead people every day from this virus. 2600 some -- that is horrible. even if masks prevent one death, you know what i am saying? that is a step in the right election. kids are -- that is a step in the right direction. kids are resilient. they will bounce back. they may have problems with

speech learning, but it may bring the shy kid at p and i think donald trump turned it political when he did not want to bring the boat in, the cruise ship, because his political numbers would go up. but i support masks. science is evolving. we have to be patient. somebody has to tell us what to do. everybody does not like mandates, but somebody has to tell us what to do. someone has to step in and be the adult in the room. host: just a couple more minutes on this topic, if you want to keep calling in, sharing statements from governors that made those moves yesterday. also, at a recent national governors association conference in washington, d.c., it was the chair of the national governors association, asa hutchinson, who spoke to president biden on this

issue of mask mandates. here is a brief clip from that exchange. [video clip] >> i want to thank you for your clarity on keeping schools open. your voice has been important from a national perspective. our schools are open, classroom instruction, and thank you for that clarity. a couple things i hope you will address today is we need the cdc to help us to have the right standards to end this pandemic and move to a more endemic status. that is an important element that we, as governors, in a bipartisan way, hope that the cdc can be helpful, to define that more clearly. we want to go from today to more normal. host: governor asa hutchinson of the white house. time for just a couple more of your phone calls. ron in laporte, indiana. caller: good morning.

i have a couple of things to say. my father-in-law used to wear a mask, especially during the holidays, when we went shopping. if he went anywhere, he would wear a mask is for the flu or cold or whatever, and it helped, honest -- obviously. he was no fool. the increase -- that was back in the 1960's. down the coast, they had these epidemics with ground squirrels. they would go through, every nine years, they would over populate and then wiped out and it would take over nine years for them to build back up again. just too many people is part of the problem. there -- i'm trying to read my notes here and figure out -- my

brother-in-law just got it. they do not wear their mask. they say they wear their mass, but every picture we see of them, they are not wearing their mask. my wife's in-laws, sisters-in-law, got it, and they died from it. there must be a reason for everything. it's turn, turn, turn. we have periods where we have to do things but don't. host: that was our last call appeared stick around. up next, we will be joined by scott paul of the alliance for american manufacturing to talk about the president's manufacturing push and his expected statements on that in washington, d.c. today pay later, the national journal's josh kraushaar will join us to

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shop.org. "washington journal" continues. host: a conversation on u.s. manufacturing now with scott paul. having this conversation on the day we expected here from president biden on this issue. before we get to those remarks, scott paul, remind viewers what the alliance is, what your mission is, how it came about. guest: thank you. good to be with you. the alliance for american manufacturing is a nonprofit partnership between the united states work is union, america's largest industrial union, and leading manufacturers with whom they have a collective bargaining arrangements. we were founded in 2007. manufacturing jobs were plummeting at the time. we saw the rise of competition from china. the idea was, if you work together, business and labor,

you have a stronger voice and can make impactful policy change. host: according to the white house daily guidance today, the president is expected to deliver remarks on rebuilding american manufacturing at 1:45 p.m. eastern. do you have any insights as to what he will say and the timing for these remarks? guest: thank you. i do not know precisely what the president will say, but i think, from past comments, from policy direction, it is very clear that this administration wants to ensure the american people know and understand that there is a strategy in place to rebuild american manufacturing, and it couldn't come at a better time. we have seen the types of shortages, supply chain disruptions that have been brought about, not only from the pandemic that also from national disasters, potential political risk. we have seen some of the

capabilities in the united states erode as well. i think this newfound understanding of the value of american manufacturing, even in this era of globalization, automation, having production capabilities on our soil, from semi conductors to pharmaceuticals, is going to be vital, not only for job creation in the united states -- and these are good to the class jobs -- but also from an economic and national security perspective as well. and i will just say, it is not just the magical invisible hand that allocates manufacturing jobs around the world he had a lot of it has to do with policy. for a long time, the united states was reluctant to engage in an aggressive industrial strategy. i think minds have shifted in

the democratic party, the republican party. now you see president biden and congress pulling and pushing some policy levers beyond taxes and regulation into things like investment and research grants, other sorts of incentives, work force development, trade enforcement, procurement, to accelerate this type of re-shoring we need to see. host: to implement that aggressive policy, how important is the america competes act, the subject of a lot of floor time in the house and eventual passage in the house? guest: absolutely. the american competes act, passed by the house of representatives and similar legislation passed by the senate last summer, would aim to do a couple of things. number one, it would aim to address a semi conductor crisis.

the united states, just a couple decades ago, made about 1 out of every 3 semi conductor chips in the united states. that is around 11% today. the idea of america competes is that these factories are expensive to build here they take a long time to get up and running. they involve a lot of research and development. from a public sector, providing some incentive, dividing matching resources for companies to locate production here will pay dividends to the economy down the road. there are $52 billion specifically for semi conductor manufacturing. there is a variety of other incentives related to re-shoring manufacturing. there are some trade enforcement legislation in the -- mechanisms in the legislation as well. it should be a down payment rather than the last word on an

industrial strategy. we know our competitors in europe and asia and other parts of the world are busy at work also figuring out how they can bolster their own manufacturing base. host: republicans arguing on the house floor last week that this bill is not tough enough on china and provisions, including some climate provisions in this legislation, actually undermined the u.s. when it comes to competing against china. what are your thoughts? guest: unfortunately, there is a political tinge to a lot of that. the legislation you saw out of the senate had bipartisan support. the house legislation is not identical. but if you look at some of the provisions in it, there is specifically this to bolster competition with china. they make it tougher for trading partners like china to cheat. i do not know that they will get

a vision of a competitiveness bill that specifically aligns with some version of the trump presidency, but i think, on balance, this represents a step in the right direction. and you see a number of interest groups from the chamber of commerce, to the national association of manufacturers, who traditionally align more with the republican side, come out in full support of the legislation. my hope is that we can come together, because it is going to take a bipartisan collaboration to make america more competitive and also to fundamentally address the challenges we see from other countries like china. host: one provision of the competes act would expand trade adjustment assistance. explain what that is. guest: trade adjustment assistance is a program where, if you're working in manufacturing or another

industry in the united states, where your job has been displaced either by import competition or by shifts of production abroad -- your factory moved overseas -- you are entitled to receive some sort of government assistance to help you get back on your feet. the data, particularly over the last four or five decades of this, shows workers who lose their jobs in a factory tend to end up in occupations that have far worse pay, far worse benefits, tend to have poor social outcomes, and many of them will not find another job at all. so having a program that will provide for appropriate workforce training to provide for some level of a social safety net will be valuable. the trade adjustment assistance program we have in place is bare-bones and is not adequate to meet those needs, particularly when we are facing, all of us, are facing situations

where we are more dependent than ever on having flexible work schedules or access to transportation or daycare. so an overhaul of trade adjustment assistance is something that has been needed in the united states for decades , so our workers who do lose their jobs due to some change in trade, are not left on the sidelines. host: we are talking with scott paul, president for the alliance for american manufacturing, talking about an issue president biden will talk about later this afternoon. 1:45 eastern is when we are excepting remarks from the president. if you want to talk american manufacturing, now is a great time to call in. republicans, it is (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. if you work in manufacturing, setting aside our last line for you, (202) 748-8003 is that

number. scott paul with us until 8:45 a.m. eastern. have him for about another half an hour this morning. as folks are calling in, when china joined the wto, the result was supposed to be more markets to sell u.s. products and, perhaps, more liberal china due to the influence of the free market and the influence of western culture. did that happen since china has joined the wto? guest: no. it did not. i was involved with this debate when it was taking place in the late 1990's and 2000's. i have a poster, that is out of sight, that says "no blank check for china," because that was more or less the provisions under which they were admitted into the wto.

china is more authoritarian. it is cracking down on human rights. it is no more democratic, no more open to the world in terms of a fair trading regime. it has certainly benefited from its membership in the wto. and big global companies who wanted to source and look for very low cost labor and communities in which they can exploit the environment have done very well through this as well. but who has suffered? workers have suffered. the environment has suffered. chinese people who disagree with the government are certainly no better off than they were. you saw it, manufacturing get decimated in the united states through that first decade, as there was a surge of chinese imports that came in and washed away 40,000 or 50,000 american manufacturing establishments.

nearly one third of all manufacturing jobs left communities devastated. some still have not recovered. for too long, unfortunately, the united states trusted this philosophy or trusted the dialogue up until the trump presidency. then the course has changed. i think it has permanently changed now. you may see iterations of a different china strategy, but i think the united states understands that we can collaborate when possible, but we must actively challenge these unfair economic practices that are doing harm to the rest of the world and to protect our own interests that way. host: let me step aside and bring in some callers. james, central florida, line for democrats. you are up first with scott paul of the alliance for american

manufacturing. caller: the main thing i want to talk about is get the manufacturing in china and bring it back to the united states. quite a few years ago, a manufacturer in north carolina making underwear, they shifted to china. of course it was the saving of money to do that. what is the possibility to motivate these companies, united states companies, to bring back manufacturing back here. we have good, working people, and work from there? guest: thank you for the question. it is an excellent one. we have seen this type of factory closures moving overseas for decades in the united states. gradually, and i think james

makes a good point here, it moved from highly labor-intensive work, like underwear garments, up to semi conductors, very sophisticated equipment now. there's really no sector immune to this. so how do we get it back? i do not pretend like we will be able to recapture all of manufacturing. i do not think it is beneficial to erect walls around the united states, literally or figuratively president biden and we can increase our own market share and revitalize some domestic production. some of that takes intent on the part of the business community. if your entrepreneurs, business owners, shareholders who want that intent, want companies to make something of -- in the united states, they can generally find a way to do that. part of it has to do with public policy, which is what we are talking about with the america competes act. if we have the right incentives to onshore work and we also have

punitive mechanisms that make it more difficult to simply make workers disposable and ship those jobs overseas, we will see better outcomes as well. we also need other measures to make sure our economy is competitive. that is what the infrastructure legislation was about or investing in workforce training, so we can compete in a variety of different types of areas where you need to be successful in manufacturing. we have seen some results. intel, other semi conductor manufacturers, have announced they are bringing some work active united states. ford, gm, some of their partners, our locating electric battery facilities in the united states. so you are starting to see large-scale manufacturing make decisions to locate production in the united states, where it had been decades, really been

decades, since that was the case. i believe it is possible to make progress, although we will never go back to a situation we saw in the 1960's or 1950's, where we had virtually no competition at all. and we took everything for granted. that will not be the case either as we move ahead. host: to kansas, diane, republican. go ahead. caller: good morning. first of all, i think this is a great income up i want to talk specifically about pharmaceutical active ingredients. i specifically remember donald trump took on this challenge when he was president and even talked about bringing this manufacturing to puerto rico. i seem to recall he was working to build this facility.

i have some experience with pharmaceutical manufacturing, and it is very difficult to manufacture active ingredients as opposed to a finished product, which is much easier to do. i would like to know, do you have an update on that, do you know anything about what president trump had done, and any actions taken by anybody to move manufacturing of active ingredients to the united states or its territories? guest: it is a very good question. we, at the alliance for american manufacturing, were raising alarm bells around this more than a decade ago, that we were dangerously exposed. to and overdependence onsole sources for active

pharmaceutical ingredients, particularly china and india, and if there were ever a supply chain crunch, it would leave us vulnerable to shortages of necessary medicines. some steps taken in the trump administration through procurement and other mechanisms to pursue collaborations with pharmaceutical companies, to locate production either in the united states or integrated ricoh, where there tends to be a pharmaceutical ecosystem as well, we saw some progress there. quite honestly, one of the biggest barriers we have seen are some of the large pharmaceutical companies themselves, whose business model depends on low-cost api sourcing from china and india. it is expensive to try to reestablish that in the united states. i do think that is something worth investing in, because we

do not want to see ourselves in a situation of scarcity for critical medicines at a time of great need, and we certainly discover that during the pandemic. i know the white house has a supply-chain task force that looks specifically at pharmaceuticals, and they have made some recommendations, but this will take the cooperation of the industry as well. host: on twitter with this question, how can the u.s. compete with cheap products from china? consumers love a toy that falls apart in a couple months. u.s. manufacturers will not be able to make the same toy for less than $19.95 because of regulations and wages. guest: good question. consumers are used to finding almost whatever they need online or at a big box retailer for

very cheap price. the problem is that the total cost of that good is not reflected in the purchase price by the consumer. as the tweet pointed out, there may be quality issues. you may not get what you pay for. but we have also seen, and there have been some consultancies that have looked at this, that well over 90% of goods could be competitively reduced in the united states. that does not mean everything, but we can certainly see more produced in the united states at a profitable rate. one of the challenges we face is corporate and financial behavior . and working against the notion that, even if you have a profitable factory in the united states, making products, if you can make even more money, that

it should be moved to a country like china, which was the herd mentality we had seen over the last couple of decades. in raising the cost of moving that production abroad has to be part of a strategy, if we are to re-sure manufacturing in the you -- -to re-shore manufacturing in the united states. we need to encourage the business community taft fresh eyes and take a look at how they can make their next fantastic idea in the united states. for too long, it was not even considered an option. host: the individual on twitter mentions cheap chinese labor. there is also this issue of free and forced chinese labor. i wonder if you can ask plane what the uyghur forced -- explain what the uyghur forced

labor prevention act is? guest: it is a good question. we can spend a long time discussing it. the uyghurs are an ethnic turkish population on the west pattern -- western part of china who have faced discrimination for decades k this is not anything new pa what is new is the active measures the chinese communist party is taking to enact what the united states, and other western nations, have called a genocide, through imprisonment, forced labor, sterilization, and for other sorts of neck and-ism's to eviscerate this culture -- other sorts of mechanisms to eviscerate this culture. the problem, in addition to humanitarian one, is there could potentially be an awful lot of products sourced from this

forced labor in some way, shape, or form. kotten is produced in that region. poly silicon -- cotton is produced in that region. polysilicon. the problem is we have virtually no visibility into the xinjiang region of china. outside observers, who are independent, are not really allowed into these areas to inspect what exactly is going on. there has to be a presumption that any product coming from that part of china could include forced labor. in united states law, there has been a ban of the import of products made from forced or child labor for a long time. the uyghur forced labor prevention act, signed by

president biden, would make clear what some of the consequences are for companies that are not abiding by these long-standing commitments that they were supposed to have been making through u.s. law and just moral and ethical guidance as well. host: tom in harrisburg, pennsylvania. good morning. caller: independent, because we democrats used to be the tariffs' party. democratic union members, four years bipartisan, thought china and tried to impose china tariffs. then the radical left hijacked the democratic party. now, for some reason, we are against these tariffs. the tariffs worked.

they were bipartisan. since trump him up with it -- he did not come up with the idea. democrats did. but he brought it back, so the media was against it. host: mr. paul? guest: thank you. we can talk the history of tariffs for a long time. the original proponents of the tariffs were george washington and alexander hamilton, who do not really have a political party today, but they have been a part of american governance for a long time, through lincoln and up and including the post-world war ii period, where they have been used as less of a policy lever. i also want to take a big of an issue -- it is true national democrats, like presidential candidates democrats have had for a long time, who have been reluctant to use utilize trade policy and tariffs. that was true of carter and clinton and obama.

and that was true of republicans as well, both bushs, reagan, etc. the change we saw did happen with the election of donald trump. there are tariffs in place come up to 25%, on some imports coming from china right now. joe biden has not taken those tarifs off many of those products at all and in fact understands we have a lot of work to do to ensure our trade relationship with china is a fair one. but to john's point, we need the leadership of both parties to understand tariffs could be one tool in the toolbox. i think the way trump approached this left us up to criticism and may have been overly broad.

having a should you focus on tariffs, in addition to engaging our allies to also come with pressure on china, can be an effective approach as well. but as i said at the outset, i think our approach to china as a nation has been unalterably changed. we will not go back to this helpful strategy we had in the early 2000s, that china would eventually get there. it is clear from president she, that it is not there intention, and we have to act accordingly to protect our own economic interests moving ahead. host: just about 15 minutes left with scott paul of the alliance for american manufacturing. their website americanmanufacturing.org, if you want to check them out. we have a separate line for those who work in manufacturing, (202) 748-8003. don on that line out of the

buckeye state. what kind of work do you do? caller: i work in heavy equipment manufacturing. i do not want to say specifically, but let's say that runs on the railroad tracks and leave it at that. i know, i want to see manufacturing come back to the united states desperately. when i go shopping i am so tired of seeing the china label on everything i want to buy. i would prefer to buy american but it is not offered, it is not made here. years ago we had this model where we did not think we needed manufacturing anymore to have good jobs. we told everybody america is where things are invented and rated and ideas come from, so let's ship the manufacturing offshore where it can be made cheaper but we will continue to do the design and innovation. what we found out was most of the foreign countries know that

engineering is important, what we call the stem, and so we ended up with foreign nationals coming to our universities to learn those types of things commented priced our own u.s. citizens right out of the college campus. we lost -- not only did we lose manufacturing, we lost onshore innovation, creation. with that being said, there is certainly a huge market for skilled hands. carpenters, plumbers, auto mechanics. we have a huge market with good paying jobs that do not require college degrees, or at least require vo-tech, adult education , night school degrees or two year associate degrees. we do not all have to be masters and doctors to make big money.

the other thing, i think we need to somehow reimagine how u.s. manufacturing works. my department, i ended up with the foreign national boss who ended up in our smaller portions of what we made. was all sent offshore. it was a thoroughly american company who is having all of their products. we designed them. china was given preferential treatment to actually manufacture all of the parts that went into our final product. in a way we were hijacked there. china was given preferential treatment as our manufacturer, or what we refer to as contract manufacturer. that tilted the playing field right there in china's favor.

host: let me let scott paull jump in. guest: thanks for the call. he raised a number of critical points. one of the things come and you articulated this, i will reframe that in a different way, too many in washington do not or to stand the value of manufacturing because the ruling class, we'll have bachelors and masters in professional degrees. most of america does not have a bachelors degree. the importance of manufacturing, of skilled work that may not require a bachelors degree is underrepresented in policy in washington, d.c. i go back to saying our policy, our government policy needs to have intent to want to make things here in addition to designing things here because

there is a value added for jobs, for our economy, for national security, and for innovation through a lot of business school studies as well as co-location is very important as well. the other thing we need is a change in business mindset. i saw the business roundtable a couple of years ago say we will get back to what we call stakeholder capitalism, which is not only caring about your profit margins in your return to investors, but also cared more about your workers, your customers, the communities in which you are operating. so far it is lipservice. if it were not it would see more investment in the united states. we have seen some companies step up. even in ohio you have seen in to help make massive new investments in ohio. i am alone enough to remember when we were lectured we would never see big manufacturing come back to the united states began.

-- back to the united states again. for somebody who has worked in this comet is good to see that but it takes that intent and it takes the public sector and the private sector working together to make that happen. host: patty out of wisconsin. go ahead. caller: we are a small community of about 33,000. when we were bustling we were probably 36,000. that being said we manufactured cranes shipped during the war. aluminum manufacturing. now that has not been decimated and we are left with empty sites and million dollars worth of cleanup. our rivers are polluted and i'm sure we have contributed our pollution to lake michigan. what did we do? it is easy to point out grievances in other countries,

but we have our own here, we have our migrant workers and so on. what should be the incentive of someone starting up a manufacturing plant here and keeping it here? thank you. guest: great question. this gives me a chance to point out wisconsin is by some measures believing manufacturing state still in the united states. it has a very large percentage of the population still working in manufacturing even though we have seen some of those plant closures that patty mentioned. starting up a manufacturing business is expensive. think about this. when you are designing an app, you can code, all you need is a laptop, you may need sophisticated marketing person, but that is literally it when you are starting it up. when you're trying to launch a manufacturing enterprise, you need a facility, you need

machinery, you need know how come you need engineering. you need to find markets. it is much more capital-intensive. having some mechanism through grants, through loans, through tax incentives is very important to help you raise some of that startup cost disadvantage qc and to drive entrepreneurs to think about hardware in addition to software and manufacturing that in the united states. there are some states who do this, there are some who do it well, some who do not do it well. we have seen massive failures. we have to be careful about how we do this. we have to understand the investment you are making in starting up a manufacturing facility will pay dividends for your community down the road. those workers will generally have middle-class jobs, they will be spending money at the other stores, it will make your

community wealthy. we need to do that. that takes place at the state level and the federal level. the american competes act is one example of how we can begin to design a strategy like that that can be smart and successful. host: we just saw the january jobs numbers come out. the manufacturing sector in the area of 12.6 million jobs. we talked about the devastation of manufacturing jobs in this country, especially in recent years. take us back to february 2020 and april of 2020 and what that was like in the manufacturing sector. by the numbers from the bureau of labor statistics, it was almost 12.8 million manufacturing jobs in this country. in february 2020. by april, it was down to 11.4 million manufacturing jobs. caller: since the olympics were

on, it was not even a ski jump, it was uplift. straight down -- it was a cliff. straight down. one of the reasons is virtually every manufacturing job has to be done in person with other people. until manufacturers were able to figure out a way to safely return to production, all of that disappeared. then there was just the economic shock as well. one of the benefits manufacturers have is they have to be particularly attentive to health and safety and work collaboratively with the workforce to ensure that as possible. there is moving machinery and you have to be able to -- you also need sterile facilities. understanding that gave a lot of manufactures and edge as they came back online. much of what we needed during the pandemic were manufactured products as well.

some factory owners were able to do it better than others in terms of keeping the workforce safe. i think manufacturing was able to ramp up. we are at a point where we have almost captured all of those job losses. we are about 250,000 short of that. that is important for one reason , which is in every prior economic downturn we have seen since the 1970's, we have never regained all of the manufacturing jobs we have lost. that was true in the great recession, true in the tech bubble, true in downturns in the late 1980's. i think this one stands a good chance of us not only being able to fully recover the jobs but to increase from there. that is in part because i think of this rediscovery we need to have more capabilities in the united states as we are growing our economy. host: time for just a couple of

more phone calls with scott paul of the alliance for american manufacturing. we will go out to the cornhusker state. this is craig in denton, nebraska. caller: a quick comment we should not be surprised to dealing with china. it is an amoral country run by a moral people. my actual comment centers around a small company. small companies started by families, many of them, started many years ago come into nebraska we had a company called peterson manufacturing that made a familiar tool called the vice grip. very successful. then a large conglomerate came in and offer this family $200 million. quite a bit of incentive for a small company come into family-run company to sell out at that point.

they kept the jobs there for a couple of years, but within a few years the factory was closed , all of the jobs were shipped to china. if you buy that vice grip now it is made in china. my question is how can we get back, maybe through some type of ftc review, and get to the owners of these companies, these families, rather than just selling out to a conglomerate, some type of function to better help these family companies transition their company they started into a u.s. manufacturing jobs question mark thank you so much. guest: that is an excellent example. it exposes some of the differences between family-owned manufacturing, which is the bedrock of manufacturing. the vast majority of manufacturing enterprises are small and midsized enterprises that are family-owned, versus

larger multinational companies that may be shareholder directed. i do think there needs to be safeguards put in place. there should be a national security review, whether production will harm u.s. readiness in some way. i think it makes sense to have an economic review. vertically with respect -- particularly with respect to the communist party of china, there needs to be investment restrictions established, there is a mechanism in the american competes bill passed by the house of representatives that would do that for the first time. on top of that, the notion of stakeholder capitalism among these publicly traded companies needs to be more than rhetoric. if we need wall street regulation to do that, we can do

that, or if we need new pressure on businesses to do that, we need to do that as well. i will say, and i want to be clear about this, my criticism of china is directed at its leaders of the chinese communist party. i think the chinese people do not bear any ill will towards the united states. i do think there is unfortunately an awful lot of xenophobia that takes place and some harm to asian americans as a result of that. i think it is important to separate the policy differences from any sources -- any sorts of other things that may be set about china and to make that very clear. at the same time, we should not hold back in our criticism of the chinese communist party and its practices and be censored from doing that. host: one last call from chuck in las cruces.

good morning. caller: i had an observation and a question associated with the myopic and narrow views of our governments. just for an example of how they view manufacturing throughout the country. i would like to see what the answer is on the narrow view, like the steel industry in delaware. they moved down to the south. then it moved overseas. we had where clinton closed out a bunch of bases to get more money. i just see government looking at these manufacturers as an opportunity to get money and

they are very shortsighted and what they do, and i would like your opinion on how shortsighted our government is, from silicon valley where they shove them overseas because they are overtaxed them, they took away the research, like lockheed had research laboratories and then turned everything over to the chipmakers and they went overseas because they were overtaxed. host: we will take the question because we are running out of time. guest: good question. i think we need more intent when it comes to manufacturing to try to avert factory layoffs, to try to encourage startups come in to do it anyway that is collaborative. part of the problem is the balance has been skewed. we favored philosophy over results. we favored capital over workers, shareholders over stakeholders.

all of that has meant manufacturing for decades got decimated. i think there is another way. i think the recent factory opening announcements represent a new dawn for american manufacturing that we can build on. i am optimistic about what we can do moving forward, and i think having an infrastructure strategy, having workforce strategy, and then having these investments in research and development can pay dividends and produce well-paying jobs for rebuilding the middle class in this country. host: is the alliance for american manufacturing, americanmanufacturing.org is the website. i should note just in time for valentine's day, that is where you can go to download made in the u.s. valentine's day cards, including some of these catchphrases. you cannot outsource love, you have to make it right here at

home. a life without love is like america without manufacturing, missing a strong core. much like america's factories, my heart is open for business. this one. our love is as strong as american-made steel. all of those valentines are available at americanmanufacturing.org. did you come up with those? guest: i came up with none of them. we have clever supporters and people on our team. thank you for mentioning that. host: scott paul, the president of the american lines for manufacturing. thank you. up next, time to turn this program over to our viewers. it is our open forum segment. we allow you to call in on any public policy and clinical issue you want to talk about -- any political issue you want to talk about. phone lines are on your screen. republicans (202) 748-8001,

democrats (202) 748-8000, independents (202) 748-8002. we will get your call right after the break. ♪ >> at least six presidents recorded conversations while in office. here many of those conversations on c-span's new podcast, presidential recordings. >> season one focuses on lyndon johnson. you will hear about the 1964 civil rights act, the gulf of tonkin incident, the march on selma, and the war in vietnam. not everyone knew they were being recorded. >> certainly johnson secretaries new because they were tasked with transcribing many of those conversations. they were the ones who made sure the conversations were taped as johnson would signal to them through an open door it his

office and there's. -- and theirs. >> you will also hear blunt talk. >> i want a number of people assigned to kennedy the day he died at the number assigned to me right now but if they are not last i want them less right quick. i will not go anywhere, i will stay behind these black dates. >> presidential recordings on the c-span mobile app or wherever you get your podcasts. >> weekends on c-span2 are an intellectual feast. every saturday you find events and people who explore our nation's past on american history tv. on sunday book tv brings to the latest on nonfiction books and authors. it is television for serious readers. learn, discover, and explore, weekends on c-span2.

>> "washington journal" continues. host: it is time for you to lead the discussion. let us know what public policy issues you want to talk about. republicans can call in at (202) 748-8001, democrats (202) 748-8000, independents (202) 748-8002. as you are calling in, this is the lead story on the front page of today's new york times. vladimir putin has the west guessing even after emmanuel macron's visit. the story noting vladimir putin said he was willing to keep negotiating, but offered a stark warning over the possibility of a full-scale war between russia and the west, using the five hour meeting with his french counterpart to keep the world guessing about his intentions. it was yesterday at the white house that president biden hosted germany's chancellor and

president biden asked about the timing of a possible russian attack on ukraine and how americans in ukraine should respond. >> i know he is in a position to be able to invade, assuming the ground is frozen above kyiv. he has the capacity to do that. what he will do i do not know. i do not think anybody knows but him. >> should americans currently in ukraine leave the country? >> i think it would be wise to leave the country. i am not talking about our diplomatic corps. i am talking about americans were there. i would hate to see them get caught in a crossfire if they did invade. there is no need for that and if i were there i would say leave. host: that is president biden yesterday on the international front. back here on the domestic front,

this story we spoke about yesterday on the washington journal, "short-term government funding bill introduced in congress." that is the headline from the hill newspaper. house committee chairwoman introduced the short-term bill that would allow the government to remain funded through early march and temporarily stave off a government shutdown. that shutdown would be set to hit at the end of next week. more work to do before that government funding bill is passed. the mechanics are now in the works to avert a government shutdown. the house and senate working on that this week. time for your phone calls. roosevelt out of brooklyn, new york. line for democrats. you are up first. caller: good morning. i would like to discuss the last gentleman you had on. one important area that was left

out of the whole discussion is artificial intelligence. the factories of old no longer exist. it is all about artificial intelligence. i will give you a quick example. i grew up in an agricultural community in florida. people used to pick the vegetables, they did most of the manual labor. i revisited my hometown recently in machines are doing all of that manual labor. what i think america should focus on is retraining our workforce. artificial intelligence is the way of the future. factories will insist but they will be totally artificial

intelligence in 20 or 30 years out. that is my comment. thank you. host: thank you. this is jerry in arkansas. republican. good morning. caller: i would like to bring up the point that when trump was first elected president, my girls got tickets and we went to washington, d.c. when we were walking down on the mall we stopped at the trump hotel. i wafted to see how beautiful it was die notice the manager come over -- i wanted to see how beautiful it was and i noticed the manager come over and he said -- i said in arkansas everyone voted for him, but in washington, d.c., just two or three people.

i do not see why they are kept in jail for walking through the capital. i do not see why they're just fine $400 or $500. it did not make sense to me that they recruit american citizens -- this state in arkansas, mike county sheriff and mike county judge, all of my relatives, they are all republicans. i do not want to see my country go where if you go to a certain state you are certain political party. host: this is sandy in kent, ohio. independent. good morning. caller: good morning. there is one question i have never heard anyone given answer to. that is about china that sent us the virus, and when we tried to get in to investigate, they

would not let us in. how they have the right not let us in to help find out why this happened? nobody has an answer to that that i have ever heard. also talking about products, i was in a store and they were selling masks, everyone does, you turn the mask over, made in china, everything made in china. they sent us the virus and then they make the masks and they make the profit off of the virus they sent us. how ironic is that? host: this is stan in florida. line for democrats. caller: we still have 1300 people dying every day in florida from the virus. that is not what i called. i want to talk about giving republicans a chance to talk about what happened on january 6. that was a disgrace to this

country. trump brought those people here. he said we have to fight like hell. the other guys and we have to have a trial by combat. the other one said kick ass and take names. 144 police officers were hurt. some were smashed over the head, some were sprayed with beers break. that was a disgrace and that was brought on by him because he cannot admit he lost an election. he made all of his products in china. his daughter, him coming everybody else, they made products in china. host: we spent the first hour this program yesterday talking about former vice president mike pence, the speech he gave on friday breaking with the president on whether he had the ability to overturn the 2020 election. i wonder your thoughts, it was a

republicans only segment we had, i wonder your thoughts as a democrat on mike pence. caller: mike pence should have spoke up right after. they wanted to kill him. a guy had a crowbar. these people love fox news. if they watched c-span, cnn, or another channel they would see people coming in the building and smashing up saying i want to kill mike pence. this guy had a crowbar in his hand walking down the street saying i'm going to drag the hell out of these people down the street. they would've killed mitt romney. if that brave police officer did not take him up the stairs, they would've started smashing heads. everyone of them said it was a disgrace, it was a disgrace, and then they realized democrats are in charge of the house, in charge of the senate, if we do not go after trumps people we will lose. that is what lindsey graham said.

first they said nice ride. host: this is joe in red bank, new jersey. good morning. caller: i am calling about two weeks ago in the guardian newspaper they had an article about how russian hackers had disrupted almost all of the ukrainian government's internet. russia may be getting ready to invade ukraine and president biden says if they do that he will put sanctions on the russian leaders. what is to prevent the russian leaders from turning around and doing the same thing they did with ukrainian governments computers, trying to disrupt our internet in the united states? we are dependent on the internet these days. host: you have faith in our cyber defense capabilities that they are better than ukraine's? caller: they may be better, but the russian hackers are probably quite sophisticated as well.

i hope the biden administration is courted in and defense in the treasury markets and making sure our internet defenses are up to speed, and at least be able to resist any possible russian hacking. host: is just after 9:00 eastern on the east coast. this program runs for another hour. over on c-span3, just to let you know, president biden has nominated the next head of the u.s. central command. if confirmed, he will replace jennifer -- general kenneth mckenzie jr.. confirmation hearing starts at 9:30 eastern on c-span three, online at c-span.org come in you can watch it on our three c-span now video app. henry in florida, independent,

good morning. caller: good morning. for my quick 30 seconds i get to get on c-span in front of the nation. i would like to give thanks to jesus christ and i will go back to matthew 5:3. it speaks about boats -- about oaths. our elected officials have bound to the oath of the constitution. let your yes be yes and your no be no. everything else is from the evil one. i want to be positive. anyone who is listening to the news, listen to all of the news. fox's been right about a lot of things over the past two years. i cannot agree with everything that has happened. all i can say is we need to come together. host: this is margaret out of woodbridge, new york. democrats. the morning. caller: i recently -- i did not

vote for trump. he is putting out propaganda. host: i do not follow and i think you are breaking up. we will go to nikki in winter haven florida. caller: good morning. the president of the united states has been trying to keep me out of the white house that i need to get help to get in there. host: we will hold off on that call. our phone lines in this open forum, (202) 748-8001, (202) 748-8000 for democrats, independents (202) 748-8002. news out of president biden's white house yesterday. this from the new york times. the president's top science

advisor resigned monday evening after acknowledging he had demeaned and disrespected his colleagues, behavior that prompted immediate questions about how he could keep his job given president biden's promise to fire any age who disrespected others. jen psaki said in a statement the president knows dr. lander will continue to make important contributions to the scientific community in the years ahead. dr. lander apologized after an internal investigation found he had violated in administration policy that outlines rules for respectful work lights conduct. in that resignation letter he expressed his regret for having been disrespectful. from the new york times, politico reporting on that story for a while that story coming to a head in the white house briefing room. eric in watertown, new york.

you are next. caller: good morning. this is in reference to the previous segment on american manufacturing. i understand it is important to tell other countries, specifically china how to deal with their minorities. our big economic power allows us to do that. in such a world we need to lead not just by example and also have the moral currency to trade around the globe. we are often reminded by other countries we need to take a look at our own country, where certain minority groups, take for example the american indians, they may not be forced labor, but there is systematic neglect that has often put them so far behind. we are unable to trait on that moral currency or lead by example. our inability to do that

handcuffs us. we want to be the policeman around the world about what needs to be better. it reminds us to look at our own history, our own country, and what we are doing here. unless we can lead by example and have the moral currency to trait elsewhere, we are only looking at economic sanctions, which often times will not work in places like china. they are constantly reminding us do not tell me how to treat my citizens, look at how your citizens are treated. we need to do better on that front. host: that is eric in new york on the issue of manufacturing. our previous guest, scott paul of the american alliance for manufacturing. some comments from our text messaging service. for an instant in history the united states was the leader in manufacturing following a population with major resources being the only nation unaffected by the devastation of world war ii.

to expect the moment last is futile when presented with the reality that goods need cheap labor to be affordable to the masses. stephen in lexington kentucky saying i'm in the manufacturing industry and there is a constant tug-of-war between automation and labor. some want more automation but that takes jobs away from citizens. wondering how to find the balance. comments from our text messaging line. you can reach us that way through (202) 748-8003, or you can call in like tom did out of tulsa, oklahoma, on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. host: was on your mind? caller: from 2016 to 2020 president trump took it over. during that time he has been insulted and personally attacked

instead of his policies for four years. 2020 came about. i believe more people voted against him because of his personality and not his policies . what happened is when a country decided to go with biden because they did not like trump, they found out biden was not the guy, or he is in for now. trump is laying back, and all of these people, the propaganda and all of the news, and all of the russians, they created a hate for him, which was a false thing. host: if donald trump runs for president again, do you expect them to change his personality at all? caller: no. he is a character, just like all of us. that is his character.

he is a counterpunch or. he wants to say something back to you. host: this is paul out of myrtle beach, south carolina. independent. caller: let's talk about the disingenuous mainstream media and the left. if you think about coronavirus when trump was president, there was a counter of how many deaths took place during his presidency. it continued, it was all trump's fault. as soon as bided took over the counter went away and all they talk about is january 6 and the insurgency, which there was no guns. it was not an insurgency. it was terrible, but the true insurgency was in afghanistan when joe biden let the taliban take over. that is an insurgency. that is all i have to say. host: paul on the counter for

deaths in this country, this is the daily graphic that runs each day in the washington post, total deaths from covid now 903,000 864, with a seven-day average right now of 2006 and an 85 americans dying every day. -- 2006 or 85 americans -- 2685 americans dying every day. this is nancy pelosi and other leaders holding a moment of silence for the now 900,000 plus americans who have died of covid. caller: i understand that. there been double the deaths in one year of biden's presidency. i'm not blaming joe biden or blaming trump, i'm saying the media blaine trump. like the guy before me -- the media blamed trump.

like the guy before me said, the media try to make them look bad, and he did have a terrible personality. host: is that a bird in the background? caller: it a parent. -- it is a parrot. host: what is his name? caller: kiwi. he can whistle the andy griffith tune. he will not say hello now. host: mary in arkansas, good morning. caller: i am from arkansas and i feel those people on january 6 that were in the capitol building should be held accountable. it is not about democrats or republicans come it is about right or wrong. thank you. host: robert in the constitution state.

good morning. caller: back to your earlier segment with the manufacturing. i worked in the computer industry for staff recovery sites. if one system would go down we would go around the country, different grids, texas would have a grid and california and here in the east we would have a grid. you spread your eggs not in one basket. i think congress should do the same type of thing for manufacturing. if we want extensive goods overseas than require the manufacturer to have at least 10% of the manufacturing capacity here. it'll be more expensive here but you build that into the overall price. when things like what is going on now you cannot get goods across the oceans because of covid, you can power up these plans in this country and start producing even more because we have all of the infrastructure in place.

intel is kind of doing something like that by putting a plant in ohio because of taiwan, the threat china might take taiwan which would be a disaster if that happens, we will not be able to get our chips, but that is the kind of thing i think we should do for all critical manufacturing. 10% of the manufacturing capacity in this country at least. host: you say bill the cost of that into the price. are you saying american should be prepared to pay more for the manufactured goods than they do now for the security that comes with having those plants in the united states? caller: yes. i do not think it would be that much of a price increase. if 90% of the good is. the original price, the other 10% cost of that good, maybe it will cost twice as much, that is 10% of the overall cost. maybe we as a consumer might see a ranch or computer, may be a 2%

price increase for the benefit of being able to say we could run up our factories if we have to. of course if that happens the price of the computer will go way up. once the disaster is over you can start going back to overseas have their plans back up again. host: thanks for the call out of connecticut. this is michael out of san diego. caller: i would like to thank c-span's forgiving americans a place to vent our opinions. our founding fathers did not want any type of religion to be affecting the way our government and our country is run. unfortunately, that has not happened. how is it ever going to happen when every session of congress they have a chaplain lead them in a prayer? i believe that needs to stop. god was not in our pledge of allegiance until eisenhower decided to put him in there.

get him out of there. i heard somebody describe the bible as christian mythology. to me that was a perfect description. it is all words written by man in stories handed down. there is no truth to any of this stuff existing. i think it was terrible that billy graham was allowed to lay in state in our nations capital. thank you. host: michael in california, our last color in the segment. about 45 but it's to go before the house comes in. in that time will be joined by josh cross shower to discuss campaign 2022 as we are now nine months away from election day. we'll be right back. >> this week on the c-span networks, the house and senate are both in session. the house takes up a bill to

fund the government passed a february 11 midnight deadline to avert the shutdown. the senate will follow suit on that bill. the upper chamber will continue work on president biden's judicial nominations. at 3:00 the senate armed services committee holds -- at 10:00 eastern, live on c-span.org and on the c-span now video app, u.s. surgeon general testifies before the senate finance committee on shortfalls in mental health care for children and teenagers in america. on wednesday at 10:00 eastern on c-span3, the senate commerce committee holds a confirmation hearing for jj to hold -- also on c-span.org and the c-span now video app, the chair of the commodity futures trading commission testifies before the senate agricultural committee to discuss what powers the agency needs to crack down on abuses in

cryptocurrency markets. watch this week live on the c-span networks or on c-span now, our mobile video app. also head over to c-span.org for scheduling information or to stream video live or on-demand anytime. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. ♪ >> "washington journal"

continues. host: we are now nine months from election day 2022. it is a good day to be joined by josh kraushaar. the latest column you have for against the brain, waive watch is the headline, a look at the political potential upsets in the 2022 midterms. explain what a wave election is and how we know when one will hit. caller: we have had a lot of wave elections in the last 10 to 15 years because voters have been dissatisfied with whatever party has been in charge. wave elections are a rejection of the governing party for the out party or the party not in power takes control of congress were picks up a lot of seats in the house and senate. it has been the reality that since 2006 we have seen a lot of wave elections, whether it was

trump being rejected in 2018 or democrats taking control of the house, or republicans in 2010 and 2014 capitalizing on anger against former president obama. part of the reason we are seeing so many wave elections is the public does not like government, they do not trust either government and the power goes from party to party in cycle after cycle. guest: is a red wave -- host: is a red wave a certainty in november and you have any sense how much that wave would wash democratic seats away in the house and senate? guest: nothing is ever a certainty and we are 10 months or so away from the election. the signals are not looking good for democrats. the president's job approval ratings is at dangerous levels, blow 40's and most polls. you have an intensity gap that should be alarming for the biden administration in which even those voters who support him do not support him intensely, not

to the same extent they supported president obama or president trump. they had stronger support from their own base of the party. biden does not command that same degree of loyalty. you look at the smoke signals on the economy. good economic reports. inflation is a real concern for voters. the state of the pandemic is a real concern. the biden administration has not shown a lot of competence on a lot of fronts. the covid situation is a good example. you see democratic governors and blue states like new jersey and connecticut taking a more leading role in trying to get schools back to normal and setting up plans to have kids take their masks off in schools. you're not seeing the white house lead on an area where they should be benefiting politically with omicron starting to fade away across most of the country. the republicans have their own issues. the party that is divided has a

trump role-playing to big factor in some of the primaries, but fundamentally it looks like a tough environment for the democratic party. host: what would be a realistic scenario you can imagine for democrats holding the house and senate? guest: pulling the house will be really tough. -- holding the house will probably be really tough, less than 5% if i had to put odds on it. they have a very small majority. redistricting has not turned out as rough as democrats feared, but the political environment is looking worse than they expected a year ago. what do they need? an economy to get back on track as we saw last month's job reports. we need to see inflation dissipating which is not looking likely because the fed is expected to raise interest rates and that will not be helpful politically this year for the administration. you have to have a sense of normalcy. if voters are going to the polls

and still frustrated by covid regulations where there is another variant, god forbid, that would be a big problem for the white house. there are things that could improve their standing by the housel be tougher democrats to hold. the senate is another story. even the republicans only need one seed to take back the senate majority, republicans have a lot of issues with their candidates or lack of candidates running in a lot of these big races. i think democrats have a much stronger chance to hold the senate majority, but even that is looking more challenging with the local environment the way it is. host: pick the most vulnerable democratic senator? guest: i would say catherine cortez masto in nevada which goes against some of the conventional wisdom which is raphael warnock in georgia who represent more republican leading states than does senator masto, but nevada is a state where you have a large hispanic

population and a large working class population. both of those groups are moving away from the democratic party. you also have the likelihood of a credible republican candidate and former state attorney general, maybe not the greatest candidate republicans have, but somebody who is acceptable to both a trump at the mitch mcconnell wings of the party. having a unity consensus within the republican party is hard to come by, so that is a good sign for republicans. host: if you like chatting politics, now is a good time to call in. josh kraushaar with us, host of the against the grain podcast. it will be with us until the house comes in today at 10:00 eastern. we will chat about any of the house and senate races you want to talk about, what the midterms are looking like, let us know what races you want to talk about. (202) 748-8001 for republicans

to:, democrats, (202) 748-8000, independents (202) 748-8002. josh kraushaar, a minute ago you talked about the trump factor in the republican party. i want to talk about that in the wake of that speech former vice president mike pence made on friday, breaking with the president, rejecting the idea he could overturn the results of the 2020 election. then we saw a republican lawmakers take to the sunday shows, many of them defending mike pence, and then republican leaders on capitol hill getting questions about that yesterday. we'll see if that continued through the rest of this week. does that play into any of these projections for nine months out, or is that a one week or a couple of days story? guest: is a challenge for republicans. you're seeing a low-level war brewing between the

establishment and the activists within the party and the fact the republican national committee condemned liz cheney and adam kinzinger come at the very least dividing the party. there may not be a lot of anti-trump republicans left in the party, but there are a lot of republicans who do not want to see candidates looking backwards and endorsing what happened anyway six or condemning republicans -- what happened on january 6 or condemning republicans in good standing. liz cheney is part of one of the most prominent republican families in the country. there is a civil war taking place. primaries in many important battleground states. it could get ugly. i know party leaders want to avoid those divisions and paper them over. this is the biggest challenge facing the republican party, you have these very right wing trump allied activists within the party that are not electable and

if they were nominees for the senate they could cost republicans very important seats. that is the biggest problem that is affecting the party. the presence of candidates more loyal to trump and not electable to a more mainstream audience for the general election. host: if you are a democratic candidate in a tough election this cycle, do you want joe biden coming to your district or your state to campaign with you? guest: no. [laughter] if his numbers maintain at the level they are now, president biden will be a drag on democratic candidates in swing states and swing districts. it is striking that republicans are now using joe biden as a bogeyman in their campaign ads more than nancy pelosi or aoc or dr. fauci, who has become something of republican party villain. biden's numbers are rough for

president in his first midterm election. the economy has generally been rough. there's a lot of frustration about his handling of covid, and there a lot of culture war issues. education issues and other cultural staples come immigration, that with the democratic party in the white house has been out of touch with where the public is. biden was once seen as the guy who could go to middle america, some of the swing district and be an asset. that is no longer the case. i do not think you will be seeing him campaigning in many swing states are swing districts for this midterm cycle. host: let's chat with a few callers. this is lewis, tar heel state, line for democrats. caller: top of the morning to c-span and america. i understand a lot of people want to try to downplay biden at this moment.

i think he is doing an outstanding job for what he has to work with. republican senators do not want to vote on anything, anything. the democrats are pulling the load. the democrats vote on saving our government from a shut down, we have two democrats that you not want to go in on it. my question is this. are the republicans that are running, and all of these gerrymandering states and counties they will carve out, can you tell me how much that will play into if the republicans do happen to take the house, not the senate but take the house, and what you think about these voting restrictions in these voting suppressions and these one ballot box drop-offs for a million people, tell me how much that will play into the winning

you say they will crush the house. i do not believe it. guest: the good news is, or the encouraging news for democrats is the worries about gerrymandering and how that could affect democrats ability to hold the majority or lose seats, that did not end up transpiring like they were worried about. democrats in many states they control, including illinois, new york, nevada, new mexico, ended up pursuing partisan gerrymandering in their own interest that have gained them seats and republicans have been stymied in states that have overruled republican partisan maps and force them to go back to the drawing board. my colleague and friend david wasserman at the cook political report has actually projected that democrats may gain a couple of seats when all is said and done as a result of the

redistricting process in their own gerrymander's. that is one thing -- if democrats lose the house, it will not have anything to do withgerrymandering. the issue of voter suppression, the biden administration even demagogue the issue from the beginning. they couldn't pass any of their voting laws, the raised expectations so high with their own base and then exaggerated in some cases. the caller may have hinted at, exaggerating in a way beyond reality and now they are going and talking other issues beyond the voting issue. especially in a state like georgia were biden spoke last month to kick off the year.

i think these issues will be debated and go through the political process. turnout was at historic levels in 2020 and historically high levels for the 2018 midterm. i don't think you will see any changes to the appreciably limit for anyone to vote. host: this is brian, independent. caller: good morning. i want to ask you, i think i can keep a pretty quick. if you have two sons -- you have these two sons. you hunter biden. you have tony bluesky. he has a lot of proof, a lot to

say. can you actually tell me that hunter biden is getting treated the same way as one of trump's kids when you put that side-by-side? our brains work that 90% of it is visual that occupies a lot of our brain decision-making process. when we put out things for over a year against the guy trump the way we did and we don't do the same way with biden's because he's in a different party, i find that weird. have you interviewed tony? why not we get him on here and bring out all the things we know about hunter biden. host: josh on presidential children. guest: the caller may have a point a little bit on the double standard, hunter biden is not going to be a voting issue.

republicans aren't good to be trying to rally that when they talk about who to vote for in 2022. it's an issue that certainly uncomfortable for this white house but one that frankly isn't going to be a voting issue. host: if we are heading into primary season it means recruiting season is over, what would you put is the biggest success and failure for democrats and republicans when it came to recruiting for campaign 2022? guest: i don't know if i would counted as a success. one of the biggest routing beliefs are republicans was pennsylvania, there was a likelihood the trump endorsed candidate was a little too right-wing and unelectable for the pennsylvania electorate. he ended up dropping out because of personal issues and that

created a wide open primary field. now you have dr. oz is one candidate and you have david mccormick was the husband of the former trump national security adviser and a hedge fund owner. mccormick is the nominee in pennsylvania i think would be a very strong candidate in this environment. i think the public dodged a bullet because trump's candidate ended up dropping out of that race. we will see about those other candidates. they may have dodged a bullet. on the democratic side, it's very interesting to see whether conor lamb, the congressman whose a more conventional

perhaps more electable candidate ends up prevailing or whether the more unique populist figure and set up winning that primary. it's one of those races where the state and health of the party will be determined by this primary. host: this is richard in brentwood. caller: i think your guest is may trying to downplay the effectiveness of gerrymandering on part of the republican party. they've been resolute across the country and bringing most things about. as far as the other caller talking about hunter biden, if we could discuss ivanka trump's

chinese associations that would be some balance. the democrats have an obvious problem with messaging in the republican party are very good at that, so much so that they can offer themselves as a viable opportunity of -- alternative when they have no policy successes after controlling the house from 2010 to 2016. they just aren't effective at governing. if they give control to the republicans again we will be in trouble. host: a lot of points. guest: let's talk about gerrymandering. both parties are trying to gerrymander, they are allowed to . there's no restrictions on that. what you've seen is republicans of hit roadblocks in dealing with the state supreme court's

in many of the biggest states in the country. ohio, north carolina. new york saw imap the democrats might gain three to four seats from as a result of ruthless partisan gerrymandering. in ohio north carolina, the courts blocked those maps from taking place. so both parties want to gerrymander. parties want to maximize their power as ruthlessly as possible. but the courts have been more against the republican maps. will see if the new york map faces legal scrutiny. i'm skeptical the liberal's new york supreme court will overturn these partisan maps. host: the front page of the new york times, the supreme court, ruled a state in alabama to

limit the power of black voters, the court was poised to become more skeptical of challenges of maps east on claims of race discrimination and a five to four vote. don roberts joining with the courts liberal members into sand. host: a fascinating kit -- guest: a fascinating case that involves racial gerrymandering. alabama has one district specifically drawn to pack a lot of african american voters in and a lower court essentially ruled they need to have two districts that police give black voters a chance to win seats in the state of alabama. the supreme court for different reasons, they overruled the lower court which spreads a lot of skepticism in the ruling for the need to draw minority majority districts in the big picture. traditional gerrymandering tactics could still apply. it's a complicated issue.

democrats, there was something of an unholy alliance between african american leaders and republican political leaders trying to ensure minority majority representation by packing and drawing nonwhite voters in the specific district. that's providing republican representation elsewhere. a win for a republicans in the short-term, but in the long term revisiting this having all them -- the black voters is something about get looked at again. host: from alabama to mississippi, this is james and collins. independent. caller: how are you guys doing? host: doing all right, go ahead. caller: i wanted to let him know

this stuff they are talking about -- host: just go ahead. caller: how could anybody say that the president is losing on his record when two democrats and all the republicans are turning away from him and the lies and the things being said about this economy. because you've got to democrats who refuse to help get the build back better package out. you've got all kinds of lies, of their publican party. if you think the democrats are going to sit back in 2022 and let the situation go over their

heads, you can see so many people voting, it's good to be more than 87 million in 2022. this is good to be like a presidential election coming up. host: josh on joe manchin and kyrsten sinema who are not on the ballot in 2022. guest: i think the caller may have answers on question. the reason biden is having problems is just because of publican opposition but because he has failed to secure the support in senator sinema and senator manchin on his most important initiatives. when your party is divided between the democratic party you can be losing the argument and losing political capital. this stems from the presidents overly ambitious agenda that he literally wanted to pass trillions of dollars in spending

that's not politically tenable in states like arizona and certainly not west virginia. i think from the beginning president biden misread his mandate, his mandate was one for normalcy, campaign on bipartisanship, he had a 50-50 senate, very narrow majority in the house and he try to get one of the most ambitious democrat agendas we've seen in the first year and a lot of it failed. it's a lesson you can outrun your mandate, you can out run the representation you have. host: to john in oregon. caller: good morning, thanks very much for taking my call. very interesting discussion. i want to comment i'm sure josh will agree that the winds of political -- can change with events.

in this case we have the president has passed the largest infrastructure program in decades frankly in this country needs it. they need to put their hat on that and then also over time, the fact we are finally out of afghanistan, that money pit, that blood pit look better and better with time. whenever you lose a war it never looks good when you leave and that's the case here. god love those 13 service people who gave their lives. with build back better, what they need to do is just look at the parts that they can pass, do it. host: you bring up afghanistan,

infrastructure and build back better. josh, what do you want to pick up on? guest: we'll talk about afghanistan because i think that was the moment the biden administration lost its political standing. the issue of credibility was brought into question. the issue of competence was raised in terms of the administration's failing foreign policy. and frankly the compassion. he looked like he was some kinds -- sometimes disconnected from the horrors taking place overseas. this president ran in contrast of the trump administration with competence, compassion credibility in all three fronts of kanas him wiped out that. i think that was the key, afghanistan was summing of the gateway drug for swing voters in independent voters to look at his imprint -- more closely.

what's behind the curtain. you also have foreign policy worrying about what can happen in ukraine with this administration and the leadership to trying deter russia from wreaking havoc in eastern europe. i don't think afghanistan was a political success, i think it was one of the political blunders they've made so far. host: the senate in a 10:00 a.m. eastern. president biden expected to give remarks on manufacturing. expecting that today all available on the c-span network. staying with us throughout the day. josh we talked about the supreme court a little bit earlier, i wonder your thoughts on the implications for election day 2022. if on the final day of the supreme court term this term the

courts overturns roe v. wade. guest: that was one of those issues that could change the dynamic on the midterms though i don't think it will dramatically change the fundamentals that it could give democrats and abortion-rights supporters specifically an opportunity to engage and to show up in turnout. that sort of the biggest wildcard in the biggest worry lately, the basis upset they didn't pass build back better, they talked about voting rights but didn't end up doing anything about it. trying to literally -- on the abortion front if roe v. wade gets overturned could be an opportunity in the midterm elections. the abortion issue is a little more closely divided. we saw in virginia terry

mcauliffe tried to kind of raise the specter of abortion-rights being rolled back, we saw what happened in texas, referring to the issues down there. abortion was not a leading issue for virginia voters. i think it's can immobilize part of democratic base, i don't think it will dramatically change the midterm elections. host: to patrick out of california malign for democrats. caller: -- the line for democrats. caller: i'm a 48 state long-haul truck driver and here a lot of opinions across the country. it seems to me like after what happened on january 6, especially people who listen to that, anyone who is still not 100% condemning what happened

really shows their trueness. sony people seem like the good people, whoever they are that can find it in them to just condemn that. i agree with what james said in mississippi as far as a lot of people turnout to vote and now if you open of the roe v. wade thing, talking about demonstrations and protests. i hope the upcoming election goes well. the question josh is if president biden, who to me seems a pretty sane together person after listening to his last press conference a couple weeks ago, it does seem like he has it together. -- have it together. people of insulted his mentality.

my question is, if president joe biden were to step down during his term to ensure at least for a short while we had a lady female president of the united states, to me she seems to have enough together to do good work, what do you think of that? have a good day everybody. guest: i don't think is an biden is going to voluntarily step down unless there's an absolute emergency health issue. frankly democrats privately are worried about vice president harris's political standing. they been frustrated with her inability to have a smooth interview with national newscasters on a number of key policy issues. her numbers if you look at the national polls are actually worse than president biden's and

in some cases by a pretty significant margin. that's saying a lot given where president biden is right now. if president biden only serves a term and has an open primary and 2024, vice president harris would probably be front runner. but it would be pretty crowded and perhaps a wide open field given democrats of not been impressed by her political efficacy. host: to jeff in new york, line for republicans. caller: good morning. my first question for josh concerns the economy. fuel prices, food, everything's gone up. i just paid four dollars a gallon for fueling in the fall of 2020i paid $2.17 for fuel oil. and as far as the energy i'm talking about is we had energy

independence, biden is begging the saudi's to pop more oil. people should take into consideration how any billions of dollars as a working-class person paid to get you to work. it's been phenomenally expensive for people just to survive. i always appreciate his father's input and josh hasn't fallen far from the tree. guest: the price of gas and price of goods, inflation hopeful -- polling shows that the number one worry of most americans. at one point the ministers would say it's transitory, inflation is only going to be around as long as this pandemic and

stabilize. it doesn't seem to be the case anymore. that's the biggest drag right now. the inflationary environment, the fed is likely to be raising over 2022. the economic environment even though we had a good job support last month still very risky. >> i'm not sure, the caller may be thinking of someone else. >> to rhonda in california. >> good morning. i believe our countries and bad shape. many of us who are democrats, republicans and myself an independent were very disenchanted. i voted for biden and i feel

that something needs to get done in california. our gas prices are so high in the food has doubled. i believe like callers who called before me freak this up into pieces, pass what is important. covid is not going away. our economy is killing us. can you give us some kind of scope of hope here and again it's an honor to talk to you. i'll take my answer off. before you go, you sit pass what's important, in your mind what is that? caller: there's so many. numerous ones, i just can't put one or two out. there's so much.

they need to also remember bills on social security and medicare. thank you. guest: the caller i think is in the same space is a lot of swing voters which they voted for biden because they were sick of trumps antics and chaos but they have not been satisfied with the result of the biden administration and the economic realities in 2021 and 2022. there are more biden voters have the same sentiments as the caller. that's why the tea leaves are looking very ominous for democrats right now. caller: good morning and thank you very much. i would like to go back to the redistricting issue, i think it's a very interesting thing to

take a look at the fact i believe it certainly is something that's going to affect my congresswoman, elaine luria who is having to move in order to stay in her district. physically move. as a democrat i'm very concerned about the fact if there competent women in congress and in the senate, it so often that they are attacked by republicans and i don't understand why the republicans don't want to support women in these roles. i think it's been a long time coming, i think it's important for women to participate, it is something that just shocks me. it shocks me in this day and age we don't have that kind of support for our women.

i'd like your opinion on that one, thank you. guest: to your first point, virginia was one of the states with the courts essentially drew the maps, it was a bipartisan team of two experts who drew the virginia maps. the district out a little more republican but it's not a change nearly as much as other districts across the country or even in virginia. i think her biggest challenge is she some moderate, she has good standing in her district. the big challenge of tough national environment for the democratic party men specifically her district. also we are seeing a lot of. sometimes even the fairest and independent-minded redistricting draws a member outside their home district. a little bit of to mold -- tumult, but inevitably that line

drawing will cause a disruption. host: we will stay in the commonwealth. greg, independent. caller: i wanted to ask on primary election reform. it seems like the biggest part of the problem is each party keeps electing extremists within their own party and that's why there's so much anxiety about gerrymandering. guest: that's a great question. unfortunately the prospects for widespread primary reform of how primaries are conducted is unlikely. there are some states have tried to implement their own reforms. alaska is probably the biggest state in this election cycle instead of having a traditional primary their having all the candidates and parties running on the same ballot.

and they're all doing ranked choice voting where voters label and rank their favorite. lisa murkowski is up for reelection. she probably would have a tough time in the primary given the new system in place, she is a much better chance of winning reelection. california is one of them, washington state is another. they do top two primaries where you have candidates of all parties in the state primary ballot. i'm not sure it's dramatically changed ideological makeup of the people who run and those types of races but it is a reform that's been tried and maybe it will extend to other states in the future. host: as we expect the house to come in and the next minute or two, has there been a viral moment or add from campaign 2022 in your mind so far? guest: there haven't been a whole lot of ads.

there was a viral video of stacey abrams, taking a picture at an elementary school not wearing a mask full of the kids were in masks. it's an issue the generator a lot of controversy and a lot of tension. one of the big political issues republicans are looking to exploit is the hypocrisy of public health officials. political officials who say one thing and do another. we see that with governor newsom in california, the los angeles mayor. not living up to your own standards, i wouldn't be surprised to see those images show up. host: we will leave it there. josh with the national journal. the against the grain column and podcast. appreciate your time. guest: thanks. host: that's