>> comcast is partnering with 1000 community centers so students from low income families can get what they need. >> comcast supports c-span, along with these other television providers, giving you a front-row seat to democracy. host: good morning. it is monday, february 21. it is president's day in the amended states. on this federal holiday that honors the history of the american presidency, a question about all three branches of government. we want to know if you think the executive, legislative, judicial branches are coequal today when it comes to their power and influence.

you can do though -- do so by political party. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents (202) 748-8002. on social media, twitter and facebook, a very good monday morning to you. you can start calling and now on this question we are asking, are the three branches of government coequal. asking this question this morning as president biden will perform a key function of the executive branch this week. he will announce his supreme court nominee to fill the seat of stephen breyer by the end of this month. it was recently on the floor of the u.s. senate that john cornyn

it, the republican from texas, talked about the upcoming supreme court nomination and confirmation battle. he talked about the coequal role the judiciary plays in the american system of government. >> we all know the supreme court is a third and coequal branch of government. we know the role of a judge is far different from that of a legislator. legislators are elected in order to represent their constituents and make public policy proposals that hopefully will become law, which will improve their lot in life. a supreme court -- any judge for that matter -- is not supposed to start with a desired result in work backwards from there. the supreme court is not a substitute for working together to pass legislation in the

executive branch with a signoff by the executive branch. the supreme court or any court is not a failsafe that can be used to deliver results that can't be secured through the legislative process. judges should not be legislators in black robes. they shouldn't advocate for any particular policy outcome or promote a specific agenda. our democracy and the rule of law depends on justices embracing personal politics, not beliefs, not a preference for a particular result in a case. the key to our constitutional republic is a judge that calls balls and strikes, who decides each case based on the facts on the law. it's important because every time a judge acts as an activist

and takes away an issue that should be decided by the political branches, he shrinks the capacity of the american people to make their own choices at the ballot box when they elect members of the legislature and executive branch. that's the reason why the constitution gives judges lifetime tenure, so they will be insulated from politics, not so they can use that tenure in order to impose their political preferences without retribution by the voters. conversely, those of us in congress are precisely elected by political elections for policy purposes. the fact is we either listen to our constituents and are guided by their desires or they replace us and retire us at the ballot box.

that's why our founders gave courts jurisdiction to interpret the law, not to make the law up as they go along. senator john cornyn on the floor of the senate. host: also recently at the end of last year during the debate on the house floor over the protecting our democracy act, and acted specifics to limit the role of the president. nancy pelosi talked about the coequal roles of the legislative and executive ranches. it was a bill that passed the house with one republican vote. this is nancy pelosi from the end of december. >> the last administration saw our democracy and crisis with a rogue president who trampled over the guardrails protecting our republic. now, congress has the responsibility, the opportunity

to safeguard our democracy, ensuring past abuses can never be perpetrated by any president of any party. this package is sweeping and future focused. it is designed to restate the rule of on now and for generations to come. our chairs have crafted a reform package that can stand up to and prevent attempts to undermine our democracy, including the abuse of pardon power, personal enrichment, the solicitation of foreign assistance in our elections, attacks on us blowers and inspectors general, contempt of congress's oversight power on behalf of the american people, including our subpoena power and the power of the purse. this ensures no one, not even a president, is above the law.

during the constitutional convention, gorged mason asked shall any man be above justice, he can commit the most extensive injustice? in his wisdom, doorjamb mason new the injustice erodes the rule of law, the notion, the idea of fair justice, which is the bedrock of our democracy. if we allow a president to be above the law, we do so at the peril of our republic. this goes to the very heart of our democracy. we are a democracy. three coequal branches of government, each a check and balance on the other that cannot be undermined, otherwise we are a monarchy. host: that is a recent debate on

the floor of the house and senate. that is our question, are the three branches of government coequal in their powers and duties. it is (202) 748-8001 four republicans. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents (202) 748-8002. interestingly, the word coequal does not appear in the u.s. constitution. nor does the specific phrase checks and balances. what is in the constitution provides specific duties through the separation of powers. it was a syndicated columnist writing last year around the time of the second trump impeachment, the power of the branches of government. the headline was they are not coequal. this is part of what he wrote. we will come back to this a

couple of times. he wrote back then: jonah goldberg writing in his column, that's from the baltimore sun. a little bit more from his column on this issue of co-equality. he wrote:

it brings up this topic we are talking about this morning. do you think the three branches of government are equal. our phone lines are split on this president's day as usual. we invite you all to colin this morning and we will start on the independent line with carol. you are up first. caller: thank you so much for taking my call. i don't believe we do have a

coequal government all. i believe unfortunately -- first of all, both sides spend too much money. i believe the new supreme court justice, whoever he or she is, must understand the constitution, the bill of rights, the declaration of independence. that must be a must. sometimes judges what -- want international law. that is not their job, to look at international law. their job is to read the constitution, swear they will uphold the constitution as well as the bill of rights and the declaration of independence. host: we are expecting it will be a sheet. president biden vowing to nominate the first black woman to serve on the supreme court. he has said that will happen by the end of this month.

we are creeping closer toward that. the deadline does extend until sunday, the 28th. robert is in massachusetts. your thoughts on this question of whether the three branches of government are coequal. caller: of course they are not equal. today's washington, jefferson, john adams, hamilton, they've got to be rolling in their graves to see what this country became. i like john mccain. , i'm a democrat. i liked ted kennedy and i miss tip o'neill. all politics is local. our country got so infected all the way down through local politics at the school board.

how can we recover from that? i miss john boehner. i'm a democrat. that man had enough sense to deal with democrats. i missed john mccain. rumor when he took his thumb and he capped -- kept our rights for medicine. he was a he was a hero to me. host: that was robert in massachusetts. you talked about some of the earliest presidents of the country. on this president's day, i should note the new presidents website, c-span's new american president homepage you can find on our website at c-span.org. it is your one-stop shop for all of our commanders in chief, from george washington to joe biden. there are video resources, facts, images that tell the

stories of their lives. this is all in one easy to browse website. that is where you can go to begin exploring that catalog available today on this president's day. to this question, are the three branches of government equal? greg in north carolina. what do you think? caller: i believe they could be equal if they are respected and the roles are carried out. right now, there is a lot of dysfunction in congress, especially in the legislative branch. we desperately need term limits. it was never the intention for them to make a career out of serving in congress. that is part of the dysfunction. the executive branch has taken on too much power. these executive orders that

presidents now do are not constitutional. if you tweak it here or there, they could be equal. the problem is they carry things that are beyond the constitution. i will say this one more time, we need term limits in congress desperately. host: do you think the dysfunction of the legislative ranch has allowed for increased power in the executive branch? caller: that's exactly right. host: when was the last time you think the legislative branch was functional? when did they have that balance correct? caller: it would be hard to say. i would go back to the early years. it's hard to pinpoint a particular time. you would have to go back 50 years when the legislative

branch was actually exercising the way it was supposed to. there is so much money involved. they are too worried about getting reelected. that's the problem. they are making decisions based on whether they get reelected. host: betty is in south carolina. what the you think about this question? caller: no. that woman that was on first, she hit it right on the nail. the republicans -- the democrats , i don't believe nothing they say. not nothing. host: not speaking about political parties, do you think the presidency, the congress, the courts have equal standing in our country today? equal abilities?

caller: i don't think they are equal. no. host: that was betty in south carolina. this is been. caller: thank you for having me on. to be honest, i think we have some other players to go along with the three branches that are very influential. i will name them. our media. our media plays a huge role in what the people think. i would say they play such an influence that they have a very big impact on who supports these two parties.

media, i would say. another one i would say is the republican and democratic parties themselves. they are not in the constitution. what we have is a two-party system and it controls everything. it is really screen us up. i think the major player outside of the three party power system, we've got the media, the political parties, we have the deep state. during this covid and during the trump presidency, i don't know how any american that pays a little bit of attention cannot see how the deep state treated our civilian elected president last term.

and how he was treated by the deep state who was collaborating with the democrat party. in the past, they don't care which party they are working with. there is a bunch of people that have been in d.c. forever that are running roughshod over everything. they cling to whoever supports them at the time. we have several parties happening in d.c., not just three. we've got the media, and the d state -- deep state pushing against our legitimate branches of government. host: edwin on twitter writing this:

this is a brutus saying they are not equal: one more from frank: taking this question until 8:00 eastern, are the free -- three branches of government equal? there is a separation of powers. is it truly a coequal branch of government? we want to know on the phone lines. for republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents (202) 748-8002. i talked about that jonah goldberg column, noting that congress was designed to be more

powerful. more on that. this is from the cato institute. this was an event in december. it was about war powers and declaring war and how that power evolved over the years. he also spoke about congress role. this is what he had to say. >> senators and congressmen talking about recapturing congresses constitutional 30. we are a coequal branch, like appear. -- a peer. it always seems to me that phrase sells congress short. in the physical architecture of this city i design, the capitol building looms over the presidents house.

the constitutional architecture has a similar design. congress comes first in article one. the legislative authority necessarily predominates. on paper, especially when it comes to constitutional powers over war and national emergencies, congress is dominant. virtually every war and military power you can find in the constitution belongs to congress. the congress makes rules for army use, provides for the militia to execute the laws of the union, to declare war. what does the president get? according to the first sentence of article two, he gets the executive power. presidential partisans have tried to give the president the

power to launch wars. that is now the executive powers , the power to safely execute the law, to enact, to make concrete policy decisions that congress has already made. the president is commander-in-chief of the army and navy. this is another clause that executive power enthusiast have seized upon. as hamilton explained in federalist 69, it just makes the president the first general and admiral of u.s. armed forces. generals and admirals have an important role. they don't get to decide whether, when, with whom we go to war. host: that was the cato institute in a recent discussion

on war powers. here is a shot of the capital this morning. it will look a little bit different in the days to come. security officials are planning to ready the fence back up around the capitol grounds again in this coming week. that is in preparation for the state of the union that will take place march 1. back to your phone calls on this question on the three branches of government. do you believe they are equal in power and influence. this is madeleine in pennsylvania. good morning. caller: good morning. i would just like to say i've been listening and i agree with many people who've already called in. my observation is a general lack of respect for one another in the workplace towards each

other. that lack of respect is all over the media daily. there should be term limits. they demonstrate a lack of respect for our founding fathers. i think consequently, we don't appear united. they don't accomplish anything. that's my comment. thank you. host: that was madeleine in pennsylvania. this is richard in virginia. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you doing? host: what are your thoughts? caller: the three branches have become equal. they ought not be. it appears that certain measures , congress has allowed the

executive and judicial branches to create their own rules, which allow each to protect themselves from any serious effect that congress has to control any actions they can evoke for violating the rights of the people. for instance, it appears to me that judges are allowed to interpret the laws that congress rights. my position is that a judge should not be able to take with the congress rights and interpret it. the congress should in their laws interpret what they mean. the judges should stick by with the congress wrote, not read into it. i think that is one instance where the judicial side of the government has gone too far. it allows a judge to make laws

from the bench. host: is it congress seating those powers? are they actively trying to grab additional power? is it somewhere in between? caller: over time, congress has passed laws or just allow it to happen. it is something -- for whatever reason, they believe they can confiscate the congress. i think congress has done something to give the idea to the executive and judicial branch that they can around the will of the people. host: hang on the line for just

one second. here is one of the moments where that might have happened, at least according to russ feingold of wisconsin. he was writing a column last summer on the issue of national security. this is what he wrote:

richard, what are your thoughts on that? national security being a place where congress has given up the ground. caller: i believe it is spot on. congress has delegated its power to the executive and judicial to do what they feel is necessary.

again, they delegate that power. they need to take it back. that's what they are therefore. -- there for. host: this is charlie in st. petersburg, florida. caller: how are you doing this morning? host: your thoughts on the three branches being equal? caller: i don't think they are equal. you've got some republicans up there in washington who are trying to censor other republicans from speaking out about what is going on in the branches of government. every time you hear the news, you are looking at we are going to be censoring so-and-so because of their comments.

why are you censoring them? the american people elected them to speak on our behalf. they are turning around and censoring them for speaking the truth about it. you've got branches of government that are spending so much money and nobody is looking at that. the other branches of government, all three are spending money like crazy. it's not showing up for the american people. host: that was charlie down and sort. this is kim in chicago. caller: i get the sense that a lot of people don't really understand the question. most of your colors don't seem to get it. i would just say -- some people

do. a lot of people are talking about what they are upset about in general and it doesn't relate to the question you are asking. host: what do you say? is there one branson has more power? what do you think? caller: i think the executor branches taken on way more power than they were envisioned to have. the president -- someone talked about executive orders. the president is usurping congressional prerogatives. declarations of war, ever since kennedy, presidents have been declaring war on their own without getting a declaration of war. host: in terms of where this started, i want to come back to that goldberg column. he was writing around the time

of trump's second impeachment. he points out that coequal is not in the constitution. it's not referring to the three branches of government being coequal. this is what he wrote about the history. caller: that's an interesting point. i hadn't realized that. i assumed the branches were intended to be equal. that sounds like he's making a pretty good argument that congress was meant to be the superior branch. they didn't mean for the executive to be the superior branch. that has really been an issue since truman started it and

eisenhower rolled it back. the executive branch has been getting more and more powerful. i think that's a big mistake. host: what about the caller who said there are other estates like the media that have increasing influence on the branches of government? the caller was concerned about long-term bureaucrats working in the government. just the politics, the idea of separation of powers? caller: those are problems, some of them. i think the deep state issue is overstated. i don't think those relate to the specific conversation about separation of powers. it doesn't seem -- it's an

interesting discussion. it doesn't seem that relevant to what you are talking about. host: it's the fun part of these open-ended questions. we can explore different aspects. thanks for the call from chicago. i hope you have a good president's day. nick is in florida. you are next. caller: good morning. the first comment i would like to make is the branches of government were never intended to be coequal. it has to be reiterated, that shows the egner and of the american people on issues like this. about 80% of the people don't even know there are three branches of government. as far as nancy pelosi, you played a clip from her. we do not live in a democracy. it is a constitutional republic.

i don't get to vote on legislation. i'm not really sure why nancy pelosi thinks we live in a democracy. she votes on legislation. i don't get to. we elect people to vote on legislation and represent us. that is a system we live under. the second point i want to make, people are talking about term limits. term limits are a ruse. the only term limits that i is a voter need is i look at who i vote for. if they are no good, i vote against them. people need term limits to protect them from making the stupid decisions that they make over and over again. if you have a congressman, a senator, if there is a president, you can vote against them according to the

constitution with they are up for reelection. the fact that aoc, whatever her name is, is a representative from a new york district is a reflection on the voters of her district. her representation of that district shows how dumb the voters in that district are. it's simple. also, you mentioned at the state of unit they will be putting fencing up around the capital. have you or anyone else at c-span gotten any inside information about an fbi trying it they are planning for march 1? host: i have not heard about that. caller: you have not? host: is that something you have heard about? caller: i'm wondering why they

are the fencing back up around the capital. maybe justin trudeau would like to bring his nazi storm troopers down and protect the congressmen and senators. why are they putting fencing backup around the capital? are they planning another right like he did january 6. host: alright. that snake in florida. -- that is nick in florida. asking whether you think they are equal in their influence and power. we are taking your phone calls. we are split on the phone lines by political party. we ask you all to call in. updating you on the latest from russia and ukraine, ongoing tensions over there. we are trying to stay on top of the situation that continues to develop.

president biden will meet with vladimir putin unless russia attacks ukraine. it was that willingness announced by the biden administration yesterday. the press secretary said the two leaders agreed to high stake talks, only if the invasion hasn't happened. we are always ready for diplomacy. we are ready for swift and severe consequences should russia choose war. they are continuing preparations for a full-scale assault on ukraine. the president would meet after that meeting between the secretary of state and his russian counterpart. they convene their meeting on thursday. that's the latest from the white house. there could be a meeting later this week. back to your phone calls on this issue of the three branches of government.

this is maryland. good morning. caller: good morning. thanks for reading that article. i did think there were three coequal ranches of government until the article point of that. it is heartening to know that congress has more mount -- power than i thought. given that, that means mitch mcconnell is the most powerful person in the world and not the president. we have seen that. he stole a supreme court justice from the democrats playing fast and loose with the law. i have also noticed modern conspiracy theorists are still calling in and being angry. i wish we could keep that at day and talk about what the mock receipt really is. thank you for talking about democracy again. are we a democracy or a republic? the people want america to be a

republic is so the people who live in montana have the same number of senators as the 38 million people in california. that doesn't seem fair to me. host: jim is in south carolina. you are next. caller: thanks for taking my call. there have been a lot of enlightened points, people talking about executive orders and executive memorandums. the wall is probably going up in fear of the truckers taking off. the role of our government since the beginning was to protect individual rights. also, to do things for us we couldn't do for ourselves.

the main thing has been to protect our individual rights. i find a lot of points are coming through irony, like the article you set about three cobra ranches and and. it's a shame they're not putting as much emphasis on all the activity before the last president. trying to get an investigation opened up and hearings for that. the main thing i think we need to get back to is the federal government is trying to -- we can use our representatives to enact public policy. there has been a big push in the protect the vote bill, which is another irony due to the ignore

and's of our populace that we use words to distract. we are trying to get away from the legislative role of the legislature and how they determine their voting situation. if we just stick with the constitution, it's one of the greatest roadmaps there ever was for individual rights and the protection of individual rights. thank you for taking my call. host: a great place to explore the -- explore the constitution, it is a searchable database with notes and various facts and historical notes. it is a resource we use often here when we are putting

together these segments when we talk about the constitution. this is san francisco, david. good morning. caller: it's john? good morning. since you are talking about it in reference to president's day, a couple of days ago was lincoln's birthday. if you noticed, not many of the republican chapters honored lincoln anymore. they used to have lincoln day and celebrate lincoln. ever since richard nixon and his southern strategy, basically the clan, the nazis, the aristocrats moved over to the republican party. it is clear the republican party is a bait and switch party. they don't believe in lincoln anymore. all three branches of government have been subverted by that. the republican party has been

losing membership for years. they are down to slightly over 20% of the american population. the democrats are around 35%. independent voters make up 40 something percent. the idea that republicans demand 50% of the electorate, 50% of the carving up of the congressional districts, that's preposterous. it is pretty clear that if you look at the system of government, it is now a balancing act of ability to make america better. if you know the legal phrase duty to care, when a person gets elected to office, they swear their oath of office. they swear and allegiance to

america and a duty to care for america, to do good for america. it is clear that the nazis, the clan it, the aristocrats don't care about that. they want theirs. host: your point about party affiliation, we did talk about this when it came out. this is from gallup. this was at the beginning of the year. there was a shift in party identification among americans over 2021. back in the first quarter of 2021, the percentage of americans who identified as democrats or leaned, 49%. 40% said they were republican. those numbers changed over the course of 2021.

at the start of this year, the number of americans who identify as republicans is up to 47%, the percentage of americans who identify with democrats is down to 42%. those numbers are from the gallup organization. this is sophia out of york city. good morning. -- new york city. good morning. caller: i was about to have a conversation with the person who answered the phone. i want to say happy presidents' day with the exception of the president, president trump made me cry for four years. now, he's been crying. that's all i want to say to tell you the truth. host: this is north carolina.

good morning. caller: good morning. how are you doing. hearing all these people: about new york -- calling in about new york districts, you can say the same thing about their districts. here in north carolina, gerrymandering and all of this. host: what about this question? the three branches of government. caller: i don't think it's fair. you see what happened in -- with mitch mcconnell and what he did with obama's supreme court nominee? mr. trump, he's an ex-president.

i don't think it's fair. i really don't. host: the supreme court, this was a text message from illinois. that is one of those text messages that came in. that number is (202) 748-8003. that has been our text message number four a while. chris is in virginia. good morning. caller: good morning. i don't think they are equal. i think the senate chamber should be abolished.

the senators like joe manchin can stop joe biden who was elected by 81 million people. it's not fair. when two senators representing 600,000 people can stop others. that's not fair. from the person who said we are dumb for talking about term limits, we all know incumbents have more money, they can advertise more, they can market more. that's what marketing is. that doesn't mean they are dumb. the senate has too much power. i don't think it's equal.

we have a problem. we have finance reform in order to relet -- elect the right people. the senate chamber should be abolished. host: we mentioned a couple of times the word co-week will does not appear in the constitution. it does appear in the federalist papers, not in relation to the idea of the relationship between the branches of the federal government to each other. one of the times it does is in relationship between the house and senate. the federalist papers mentioning the word coequal. tony is in new mexico. good morning. caller: good morning. when you went to school or when

i did, it was all coequal branches. you are supposed to have two branches watching the third branch. each branch watching each other. as far back in the late 1990's, with the abolishment of the league of women voters, doing the presidential debates. both parties thought they asked to hard questions. then we jumped to this different occasion. citizens united is a political decision. it's not based on the constitution. people claimed it had anything to do with the constitution have never read the constitution. it says we the people. it doesn't say we the corporations. they have been corrupted by the

two political parties. it's up to the and dependence in this country which outnumber both republicans and democrats combined to elect independent candidates and get rid of these corrupt political parties. they corrupted the courts, they corrupted the congress, they corrupted the executive branch. host: this is melvin on twitter: new hampshire, did morning. you are next. caller: good morning. the gentleman from new mexico, when he went to school i was taught the three branches are equal.

i think the executive branch with all of these executive orders has grown more powerful than it should be. we've been involved in wars that were never gone through congress -- the last declared war was world war ii. another point about representation, the lobbyists are the problem. we elect people to congress to represent us. they vote the way the lobbyists want them to vote. they don't represent us. that is my thinking. host: we've been talking a lot about the constitution. we will go to connecticut. good morning. caller: are you there?

host: go ahead. caller: we really have a shadow government. the people out there running our government, did you ever hear of the george soros foundation. all the time we are out voting, he is putting billions of dollars into the elections. he's going against what we're doing. you see the crime in new york? he's putting in these prosecutors who do not go by the books. he's been thrown out of hungary. he's been thrown out of the u.k. host: do you agree that money in politics is the big problem right now that is keeping the branches from being equal? caller: he is running our quest -- country. host: that was patty in connecticut. we have the phone lines split by political party.

democrats, (202) 748-8000. publicans, (202) 748-8001. we have had a couple of colors from illinois. this speaks to the idea of coequal treatment, specifically when it comes to shining a light on the activities of state branches of government. this is a story out of illinois on efforts to apply more light to the judicial ranch in illinois. the courts in illinois notes they are allowed to operate outside the eyes of the press and public because of the freedom of information act which does not apply to the courts.

transparency being a coequal issue as well. that is a state issue. we've been talking about the federal branches of government. we have time for one or two more phone calls as we ask if the branches are equal in their influence. we've been talking a lot about the president's on president's day. we have a focus on the presidential historians survey, our latest survey coming out in 2021, ranking the presidents on various qualities of leadership. we will go through that survey,

talk about the rankings from 2021. we want to hear from you, who is the greatest president of all time on this presidents' day. we have time for a few more of your phone calls. edward is in ohio. to think the federal judiciary, executive ranches are coequal today? caller: since trump host:, ohio, do you think the branches of judiciary --? caller: the trump presidency turned the judiciaries into

minions. also, along with mitch mcconnell, placed supreme court justices in their had more power to legislature. the judicial branch and the executive branch are way too powerful for the legislature. the legislative branch needs to start working and representing the country. thank you very much. host: bobby is saying on twitter, "the branches of government were never intended to be equal." that conversation will continue down the road as well as the topic we will have to come back to on washington journal on the

three branches of journal, their power, their influence. let's stick around on this president's day. we said historians surveying presidential leadership. we will be joined by historians douglas brinkley and amity shlaes. and later edward rothstein will join us to discuss the role of presidential libraries. we will be right back.

>> the head of the broadband and internet access. >> follow president biden's historic take for the next supreme court justice for the nomination announcement all the way through the confirmation process. on c-span, c-span.org or by downloading the free c-span now cap. >> these six presidents recorded conversations while in office. here presidential recordings. >> season one focus on the of

lyndon b. johnson. the 1960 four presidential campaign, the gulf of tonkin, the march on selma and the war in vietnam. not everyone knew they were being recorded. >> certainly johnson secretaries knew because they were the ones that make sure the conversations were taped. as johnson would signal to them. you will also hear from --. >> on the c-span now mobile app or whatever you get your cop -- wherever you get your podcasts.

there is something for every c-span fan. washington journal continues. host: each time there has been a change in administration, we have historians observing of the presidency on hours c-span historians survey of presidential leadership. this president's day we will be talking about it. we are joined from austin by douglas brinkley. an historian amity shlaes and author joins us.

why do we do this? and how do we do this? guest: today is presidents' day. if we don't open it up to the president, schools are off. they are not talking that the president. at c-span we look at the executive branch and on the nine sign -- the nonscientific polling. i love it when i travel around or meet people who are fans of c-span. sometimes it is talks of abraham the -- abraham lincoln, george washington, fdr that people will mention. often we say something that will encourage people to learn about -- taylor, -- gerald ford. president xi don't get as much love as others. as far as the president's club,

we have fun with it at c-span. we cast a large net of 100 top scholars of the presidency. we tried to be nonpartisan as best as we can be and we are very proud of the way we divined these topics for you to vote on issues of race or on communication, foreign affairs. it is broken down, international relations. and come of with something that tells us not just about the presidents but who is this person in the moment in time in 2022 seems to have currency with the american public for one reason or another. host: leadership characteristics, all presidents past and present -- international relations --

vision with setting an agenda, whether they pursued equal justice for all, and their performance within the context of their time. authors ranked all of the president on those topics. the top 10 of the latest rankings and the highest rankings regularly moved in the four times we have done it. kennedy -- lincoln, one, washington, -- talking about the context of the time. what is useful about making a comparison of the issues the presidents faced, the challenges they faced and how they

performed hundreds of years apart, sometimes. what can we learn about doing that? guest: americans think about the president all the time, whether they like him or dislike him. what is useful is to have a historic context. america is a country that extends on his past and if we are going to a voter poll, this is a historic pole. what about people who would have they done -- question mark what have we discovered about woodrow wilson that took him down? what have we discovered about calvin coolidge is not just what we think it is --.

in history you think to where the pipe once has been or you suspect the pot once was. host: douglas brinkley, every time we have done these surveys in 2000, 2019, -- abraham lincoln always ranks one in the surveys. george washington, she ranked number three. when it comes to the greatest of the great, why does lincoln rate ahead of george washington?

guest: because no matter how badly a president had it in the executive office or the white house, lincoln had it much worse. suddenly he is the -- of this new republican party party. she has to travel to washington dc with a body double. there is lincoln sitting in the mansion with half of the country putting up confederate flags and breaking away from the union. the first battle of the civil war -- the current -- the

confederates won the first battle of the civil war. the union army under general mick clement had a very close start. it is not until later in the war that things start working well for lincoln. the trials and tribulations of the civil war, lincoln provides no less than four new foundational documents for our country. and by foundational documents i mean we have the declaration of independence, constitution, bill of rights, the louisiana purchase can be considered that, and a few others. but lincoln gives us his first inaugural, the second inaugural, the gettysburg address and the emancipation proclamation.

we really live in an age of lincoln. history divides itself pretty slavery or post-slavery. soldiers -- the american homecoming. lincoln is moving back home to be buried in illinois soil. it is a dramatic moment, a dramatic presidency. if you ask barack obama who his favorite president is right now, he was a abraham lincoln. if you ask george w. bush, it would be abraham lincoln. he is every presidents favorite president because there is nothing quite like him. i don't suspect we will ever be shaken from that number one in our poll.

host: a goes from one to 44, james buchanan in our latest survey. donald trump in his first appearance in the survey coming in at 41. we noted that barack obama entering the top 10 according to that top historians survey. where would you rank the presidents? what presidents do you want to talk about on this presidents' day? republicans, (202) 748-8002 --(202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. amity shlaes, how do you feel

about coolidge? guest: i am personally very happy about calvin. he moved to 24 from 27. it can be explained with a bigger story. president obama, for example, president eisenhower doing pretty well. it seems to be showing some respect in historians. as doug had said, the 20th century was about the active presidency. franklin roosevelt. we have a history of a president still functioning in our veins.

what coolidge embodies and so did, i think, president obama to a certain degree, president bush's, the hidden hand with ike working in the background. it is for our institution. the counter is that andrew jackson would go down. he will go down because president trump liked him. every jackson was in action. an action figure. there is a theme here. host: going down in our survey

to the latest survey that came out in 2021, the previous -- the latest one coming out in 2017, andrew jackson from number 13 in 2017 to number 22. grover cleveland down from 17 to 25. wilson down from six to 13. taylor down from 28 to 35. poke down from --. nixon down from 25 to --. the best part is hearing from you, our viewers. which president do you want to talk about? jeff on our republican line. jeff, good morning. caller: you know the last.

all that plays into it. are they going to take what he said he did or are they just going to -- that he was cheated. guest: it is a very good question. we had to decide to include president trump or any president that shortly after their presidency. we often say in the presidential business, we wait for the freedom of information act to kick in. where people can get access on

conducting this. that takes about 25 to 30 years until you're going to get to see what transpired fully in the trump white house and let some of the bipartisan buzz kicked around a little bit. in the end, we live in a very speedy time. his come in in a nanosecond. we decided to include all presidents. trump came in here and very may -- very well may be the investigations of trump, the double impeachment, had an influence on wide trump is so well in the polling. people look at twice impeached

-- democratic hit squad. the media were holding trump accountable for something he didn't do, he might be able to find a rise. he also could say -- people will start looking at. i never look at impeachment as a badge of honor. bill clinton used to say that. andrew johnson was so hurt i impeachment he went back into the sea, you see donald trump obviously wounded by impeachment . running again in 2024 perhaps. to get a handle on president

trump, his admirers admit he was an explosive and sometimes chaotic president. they are going to do, down and he was -- was it about being fundamentally altering american politics because elitism had crept so deep into our government that it was time for somebody to change things up. he is an open book what he is running very light now in the current poll. host: you were saying presidents who entered these services. bill clinton is the president

during our first survey. the president just left office, into the survey at 21 and as of 2021 he moved up to 19. george w. bush in 2009 survey inserted in the 36th spot, moved up quite a bit to 29 in the latest survey. barack obama entered at 12 and at 10 now in this latest survey. donald trump and his first survey after he served. bill in michigan, good morning. caller: who creates the presidential libraries and who decides what goes in them? specifically, i was wondering if trump would have a library and if the library would be self checked to make sure the

information was accurate? host: we have a whole segment coming up. coming up in about an half hour, talking about presidential library. >> thank you for that question. in the governmental set up, a president does his job. it has not been -- these are one the fool scores for all of us. it created the culture of the --

the government is spending money on former president's. the president shouldn't be on the -- from the government. the coolidge foundation is brewing -- building of a private sector with a library. we are a small donor institution. there is some question, some controversy about whether these libraries are worth the millions. a lot of us think they are a lot of us felt plenty of respect for those presidents who might be funded in another way and

illuminated in another way. host: 15 presidential libraries overseen by the national archive. the hoover library, -- john f. kennedy library. host: all overseen by the national archive records administration. in about a half an hour on this program. for now, which presidents do you want to talk about? this phone lines are split as usual by political party. good morning, you are next. caller: good morning.

i am going to sit by and listen to the good information. so i thought this would be a good opportunity for me to explain what is eloquent in supporting -- we are so eloquent in defending and supporting andrew jackson. it seems to go down and epitomize. i wouldn't mind hearing from mr.

brinkley if you care to join into. guest: interesting point. i am a historian now, not a journalist. points that could be made is president trump has strong economic policy. the u.s. economy was doing very well under president trump. when it came to covid if you are looking to -- the point was to gather a vaccine fast. which happen.

something president trump believed in, which was the private sector. our vaccine didn't come from the fda. i will decline to rate. president trump is at the bottom of the polling. had we not included him, it would not have that benchmark. we will look at it and see what happens. host: in the historians ranking, the pre-rankings where president trump performed the best according to those participating in the poll, in the area of the public's persuasion economic area and setting an agenda. go ahead. guest: i am decent at setting an

agenda. getting three small justices in nash that is not the powerful impact the president has been able to do such a thing. we have got a lot of mail with people asking "how can president trump not be the bottom?" it looks like james buchanan is seen worse than him. the thing will change and rise like the river. trump is a new stream right now. we will have to see what happens. the impeachments were real maybe the documentation will show they were not justified.

which could be an enhancer i think warp speed. because it returned to the sense of the american can do it to his sins. saying dr. new deal becoming dr. win the war and starting the industrial mobilization. president trump's ability to mobilize to get a vaccine in record astonishing time, that is something that could enhance him down the line. again, everybody votes differently. this is not a group think. these are scholars. we collect them. as i said at the outset it is not scientific and we really try hard to find balanced scholars the don't have a chip on their shoulder toward any president. i think the most impressive ex president i have seen since

doing this has been barack obama, who manages to break into the top 10. i think it is important often to be a two-term president. trump is a one term meaning the voters said, we don't want any more of you. whereas obama or eisenhower, the public voted on them twice, doubling down on their policies. bill clinton doubling down. i think you have a better chance of rising if you have two terms. richard nixon, who accomplished so much and a guy named garrett graff wrote a new book called " watergate: a new history" looking at nixon. it is all 50 years of watergate, 50 years of nixon going to china. his greatest moment and his worst moment happened in 1972. you think sometimes nixon could rise but then he has these tapes that are filled with such

violent, anti-semitic, anti-black language that when you listen to then you cringe and you feel his moral authority numbers sinking like a stone. it makes it very hard for nixon to have rehabilitation. jimmy carter in his 90's still with us ranked in a middling way. he may rise when he passes when people reflect, but carter may not have been a great president. a lot of the things he did do seems to have stuck, panama canal treaty, camp david peace accord between egypt and israel. it was carter who officially recognized china. carter who saved so much land in alaska. carter who created fema, the department of energy. suddenly carter might look better as a one termer.

host: you mentioned garrett graff. he joined this program last week ahead of president's day on february 16, the day after his book came out, to talk about that book. if you want to watch it, you can do so in its entirety on c-span.org. out in california this is ron, line for republicans. good morning. caller: good morning. i have two questions.

i want to thank doug brinkley for all that he has done. what i got out of the survey was the fact that all those presidents in the top 10 brought our country together. they all had one thing in common, they brought our country together across the lines. i think that is the reason why, if you look at the so-called bad presidents, they were all divisive. you know, andrew jackson gets a pass because of his manifest destiny that we had where he sent davy crockett to get taxes on our side. come on. a lot of underground stuff was going on and that on top of his trail of tears and killing all the cherokees, that is obviously a problem. host: let me let our -- caller: one last thing please.

mrs. shales, my wife and i had the privilege to visit the coolidge library in vermont. i encourage everyone to go see that compound. we went in the middle of winter but it was absolutely superb. we never realized what great beauty misses coolidge had and what a great -- mrs. coolidge had and what a great trendsetter she was for that process. thank you both of you for a wonderful job. host: thank you for the call, ron. mrs. shales, anything you want to jump in on? i do not know her name off the top of my head. guest: grace coolidge. she was a beautiful woman. she did not look modern because she did not wear makeup but she looked good in any color. more importantly where does that name, grace, come from?

she was a thoughtful spouse and interesting spouse. she got a ba at the university of vermont which was rare for that period. this is the 1920's when women's suffrage is just occurring. women are voting for president for the first time and then she trained as a professional. she trained as teacher of the deaf. merrily that was factored -- maritally that was factored. she brought her husband out the way she brought out her students. their marriage was a traditional one, she took care of their sons and he worked. sometimes that was difficult because the coolidges were trying to clean up the presidency after the harding scandal. they had to live a model life in the white house but when they

retired from washington, went back to northampton, massachusetts where they lived, president coolidge gave her the most amazing marital gift. he got all his friends to raise money the way presidents used to in those days, for a library for example, and he gave the money, millions in those days, to grace's favorite charity, the clark school for the deaf where she got her presidential training. that was a tremendous marital tribute. i want my wife to be comfortable and to lead in her area since i had the opportunity to lead in mine. it teaches us a lot about marriage. she was not a pouter. she went along and he gave back. i study the coolidge marriage as a model and command that on president's day.

who presidents are married to matters. host: that is why we do the segments. we always learn something new. doug brinkley? guest: i wanted to introduce my first lady. the amazing work lady bird johnson did. i don't know if people realize austin, the 11th largest city in the country and why everyone is moving here, lady bird johnson saved zucker park which is right in the middle of the city where you do canoeing and hiking and outdoor recreation. it is where austin city limits music festival is at. she created a trail system and it made austin a green, outdoors city. as first lady she really grabbed that issue of saving our national parks. without her we would not have redwood national park in northern california or the north cascades in washington or guadalupe national park in texas.

she would go actively run rivers with her interior secretary. she would go into the snake river of idaho all the times talking about seeing america, really enjoy the bounty of our national and state parks and wildlife refuges. it interests me because she took one issue like that and made it her own and put such a big stamp on it. my estimation of her as i study first ladies tends to rise all the time. she was really picture-perfect even though lyndon johnson was the albatross of the vietnam war and had deep, dark problems in his white house. host: i know we are going to lose you in a few minutes so let me get you one more phone call. out of the hawkeye state, this is bonnie, republican. good morning. caller: good morning.

i can agree with doug that yes, the park is lovely. here is my comment. we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal, they are endowed with unalienable rights and among those are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. taking those rights in reverse order and the presidents in chronological order here are three great presidents. george washington led the fight for the pursuit of happiness against unreasonable taxation from a king across the sea. that made him a great president. abraham lincoln freed the saves with his emancipation proclamation. he recognized long before was politically correct that slavery was an abomination. the last great president, chronologically, looked at the issue of life and in principles and in words repeatedly defended

the right to life which no president before had done and certainly not the one after him of all americans born and unborn. at his state of the union address while republicans applauded and stood democrats sat and scowled as he repeated these words he had said before at mount rushmore the previous july. all children born and unborn are created in the holy image of god. for that reason donald trump was a great president. host: doug brinkley, i will give you the minute before you have to run. guest: right. well, that is an issue that has been contentious with roe v. wade. i agree if one is looking at the abortion issue, really the fact that it occurred on the watch of the nixon years and then donald trump really kind of galvanizing

the right to life movement, forming the core of what his constituency is. there is no doubt about it. i found it interesting in american history to follow catholics because i am one and how catholics have navigated the issue of abortion. you know, it is the vatican -- you often find catholic presidents like joe biden sticking by roe v. wade. it is still a hot button and contentious issue with biden on one side of the occasion, trump on the other. we will have to see what the supreme court does now that it tends to tilt more toward the conservative side. i believe it is there and see how they deal with that in the coming weeks and months. host: doug brickley, i am sure we will have you on again. guest: thank you. happy presidents' day. host: thank you for spending

part of your presidents' day with us. doug brickley joining us from austin. we will stay here with amity shlaes as we talk about the survey and the presidency want to talk about. a few minutes left for you to call in. republicans (202)-748-8001, democrats (202)-748-8000, independents (202)-748-8002. amity shlaes, this is surely out of new york city. good morning. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. i called in about our former president donald j. trump. i think he was the worst president we had and i remember the debate between him and hilary when she called donald trump a puppet. and when donald trump was warned by obama to watch out for

prudent. -- putin. what did he do? he said the russians could do nothing wrong. in theory putin played a trump like a puppet. host: we talked a bit about former president trump. amity shlaes, president trump ranking ahead of three other presidents in the survey, franklin pierce, andrew johnson, james buchanan. which of those three do you want to talk about and their ranking? guest: i want to talk about the issue of foreign policy which surely brought up -- shirley brought up. this is presidents' day weekend but also the anniversary of president nixon's trip to china. nixon open china, that is what

the schoolbooks say. we do not praise nixon for that but one of the benefits of history -- this is the history poll -- we find things that happened in the past later whether because of foia or research by able researchers. i think one reason nixon did worse in this poll, and woodrow wilson another great diplomat, did what historians find. diplomacy is not always what it is cracked up to be, including that trip to china. for example, a writer wrote about mao i which she wrote about the chinese side of this nixon trip which anniversary will mark this weekend. we were always taught that nixon was so skilled with henry his inner to get a reluctant china to open about what we have learned from scholarship relating to mao is that mao was

dying for relations with the u.s. he really was in a rift with the soviet union and he would have done just about anything to kiss up and make friends with us. the writer points out that the diplomat assigned to make nice, to get an agreement with henry kissinger had bladder cancer. history is different from what we thought especially relating to diplomacy and all the documents shirley is asking about will come out. we have learned about nixon in china lately and i hope this topic is discussed next week and the following week. host: we talk about presidents moving over time over the course of the surveys. the first coming out in 2000 and the latest in 2021. we do these after a president leaves office, update the

rankings. richard nixon debuted at 26. by 2021 he has fallen down the rankings to 31 in the latest survey. all of this available at c-span.org if you want to go through the rankings. you can click on various aspects of leadership we asked historians to rank the presidents on. we have a few minutes left to take your calls. this is clayton out of marion, indiana. good morning. caller: good morning. in 2016, obama went on national television twice and said he was going -- sorry, 2013 when he went on television and said he would give weapons to isis. he did not go on national television in 2016 and admit that but those are three counts of treason. in 2014, he had mine and every other federal employee's phones illegally bugged.

how did he get in the top 10 on that list? host: amity shlaes on barack obama. guest: clearly civil rights is an american issue right now. if we talk about history now, think about what our children get in schools. they get heavy civil rights discussions throughout. the presidents who stand for civil rights, whether lincoln already at the top or president obama or u.s. grant who rose tremendously, if you look at the c-span website, you will see the rise of grant. he was corrupt. he got in trouble. he was really corrupt, more so than harding. but his civil rights side, his effort in that difficult postwar period taught to use the verb "with the american populace." with all that is going on, including obama, he really did stand for civil rights.

many of us are so proud to have had an african-american president. that is how president obama rose legitimately. host: in these surveys we tend to focus on the top three or the bottom three. we rarely get to number four before we start bouncing around. since we have you, i wonder your thoughts on teddy roosevelt, consistently over the course of the service being ranked the fourth greatest president. guest: it is the rushmore phenomenon. we want presidents to be great. we have the need for a genetic need for great leaders and then we wonder, shall we have great leaders? there was a bouncy, happy warrior, a happy president, who loved the people, who understood the greatness of the united states, and he goes on rushmore.

at the time he was a new model. presidents were supposed to be in the background. there he was saying, i am it and i am the presidency. tr currently divides americans. some republicans like him, others less because his policies were not policies they would support. for example, economically in the case of tr, he was a trust buster. today he may not be the best to make the economy benefit more americans. but it is a good show trial. tr was the man of that, the creator. he was definitely a strong president model. he called the presidency a bully pulpit not by which he meant we bully from the pulpit but a great pulpit. you can trace tr, fdr, and certainly donald trump in the

chain of the tradition of the big presidency. host: jamestown, you are next. caller: sorry dr. brinkley had to go from the program but i wanted to commend him for making the statements about president carter. he gave all the reasons why president carter should be in the top 10 in terms of the panama canal, the peace treaty between israel and egypt. he was the first environmental president. have the department of energy headed by a nobel laureate. i would like to say regarding the comments about the former president and why people think he should be rated higher, let's not forget he inherited the obama-biden economy.

and what i would also like to encourage both older and particularity younger individuals, my top eight historians and so thankful for the likes of dr. brinkley, dr. goodwin, david mccullough, john meacham, ron turnout, nathaniel fu bric, henry louis gates, and michael best loss. these are my top historians and i encourage all americans to read their works. sorry i do not know mrs. shales writings. i will have to look into what she said about calvin coolidge but we need to be informed. on this president's day let's read about historians that have devoted their scholarship so that we can know more and more about our leaders. host: amity shlaes, cannot pass up the opportunity for a caller who wants to know what you have written about. guest: thank you for that compliment to our trade.

we really do try to endeavor. we endeavor, we strive, we bend our energies to be fairer. i have written a history of the great depression called "forgotten man." and a history of the great society called "great society." in both ima and anti-presidential presidential historian. in both books i tended to emphasize more the policies than the men. lyndon johnson was a lovable man. he had some outrageous telephone calls right up there with richard nixon which you can now here on tape. i invite people to do it. he was an active president, very active. to my theme that activism is not always great you see johnson sloping down from past polls. his policies were not so awesome. he sets the stage for the inflation we had and subsequent

presidents had to correct. i tried to get at that in "great society." a president can be too powerful and one of the most interesting chapters to me to write was apropos today the way the president was in the nixon thought with the fed. and try to get them to lower interest rates because it made the presidency easier. the fed did not always want to do that because it knew interest rates would come later. i try to capture the dynamic and make clear the important work non-presidents do. the other branches of government. host: a viewer on twitter wants to know where this ranking is. pretty easy to find at c-span.org/presidentssurvey2021.

since we are giving out websites there is a new one up today, c-span's new american presidents homepage. you can find that at c-span.org/presidents. it is your one-stop guide to the nation's commanders in chief from george washington to joe biden, biographies, video, resources, facts, images that tell the stories of their lives. that is up today on the american presidents website at c-span.org/presidents. amity shlaes about to run out of time. we are going to spend some time talking about presidential libraries but wanted to give you the final minute or two here for any other thoughts on presidential libraries before we dive into that conversation. guest: well, they are precious institutions. we need them. one of the wonderful things about now is that any man or woman can research and find out

for him or herself. the younger generation of historians has a distinctive advantage against older historians because of the access to data at home through proquest or at presidential libraries. one of the things i had the honor to experience was watching president bush 43, george w. bush, build his library in dallas. there is an exhibit there about the tough decisions president bush had to make and it was packed from the day it opened. that is because americans are curious and they have a right to know and learn. that is what libraries do. at coolidge, we do not take money. we take virtual money. we are putting anything he ever wrote online. we are inviting citizens,

including c-span viewers, to edit those speeches and write their comments because when you put something online there are typos. transcription is tricky. we enjoy inviting you to do that and to comment on what you think about the speech coolidge gave. host: good place to start, coolidgefoundation.org. amity shlaes is the board of trustees at the calvin coolidge presidential foundation. thank you for your time on this president's day. guest: thank you. host: up next, we continue this discussion on the topic of presidents. we turn to presidential libraries to do that. we are joined by the wall street journal's critic at large edward rothstein. the grounds for that discussion after the break. ♪ ♪ announcer: at least six presidents recorded conversations while in office. here many of those conversations

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host: the topic of presidential libraries with a man who knows his way around libraries and museums. edward rothstein services critic at large of the wall street journal and reviewed many of the presidential libraries and museums overseen by the national archives. good morning. explain why we have presidential libraries. what purpose do they serve? guest: good morning and thank

you for having me on. presidential libraries, in a sense, developed almost accidentally. they were never not envisioned as part of the structure of succession of presidencies. until quite recently within the last four or five years or so all presidential papers were considered the property of the president. you could pack up your trunk in the white house and take it back home with you. the atmosphere changed in 1939 because fdr, for a variety of reasons, decided that his papers on already one of the most important and influential sort of presidential reigns in the 20th century had decided that

his papers would be of some value to scholars, and that he established his home in hyde park as a home for the fdr presidential library. which became even more important as world war ii became another major event in the history of the united states and the world. but these papers were a major historical significance because they shaped the world in the late 20th century. his policies are still shaping the world of the 21st century. this was a sort of quite unusual move deciding these papers would be completely open and have a specific place to be seen. and for a while fdr actually worked in his presidential library.

his office can still be seen there behind plexiglas now. so this was a very unusual, very idiosyncratic thing. there may have been other reasons involved. that would be something like in england where you have this tremendous estates of great families who could no longer afford to keep them up or taxes were an issue so donated it to the national trust to make them public places. this was a little different in that the library is run by a private foundation connected to fdr and his family. but it was an extremely influential as an example. that i want to sort of arise was truman's in 1950. truman had a much shorter lifespan as a president but also

in the late 1940's as the cold war was taking shape the atom bomb became an issue, domestic policies were shifting in major ways, international relationships begin to overturn. truman's papers became of great importance. i think he was reluctant but he ended up agreeing to set up the truman library. his perspective was this should be a place where the public can come and see and learn something about the history of the presidency and its importance, aside from the issues that clouded his years in power. these sorts of examples set up an expectation that this would continue.

but presidential libraries were not set up illegally until 1955 when the presidential libraries act was passed, establishing presidential libraries and that they -- there is this very strange character they have. they are partly private institutions. they were and this went on until very recently. completely funded and established by private sources. as they evolved, and i will skip over -- host: i think we are having a little trouble with the zoom feed. as we get him back asking you to call in about your favorite presidential library. have you visited a library? if so, what do you like?

what don't you like? what makes a good presidential library? phone lines are split regionally. it is (202)-748-8001 if you are in the eastern and central time zones -- it is (202)-748-8000 if you are in the eastern or central time zones. (202)-748-8001 if you are in the mountain and pacific time zones. 15 libraries are now overseen by the national archives and record and administration. those are the herbert hoover library, franklin d roosevelt library, truman, eisenhower, john f. kennedy, lyndon johnson, richard nixon, gerald ford, jimmy carter, ronald reagan, george bush, william jefferson clinton, george w. bush, barack obama, and the donald j. trump presidential library has a site online you can visit. not a physical building yet, and the obama presidential library being built as well.

the truman library is the second one edward rothstein was talking about. are you back with us? guest: can you hear me? host: glad to have you back. guest: not sure what happened. host: that's all right. we invited the viewers to call in. as they are calling in you have written about this topic before, ego versus truth when it comes to presidential libraries. i wonder your thoughts on whether these libraries and museums are monuments to the individual or are these places for history and pure historical research? how should we look at these museums and libraries? guest: it is a complicated issue and varies from library to library.

was created by the president and his foundation. when all documents and papers and objects related to the presidency were declared -- were considered republican taken over by the national archives. every presidential library, until now, has been partly public, partly private. as a result the shaping of the history, at least the initial shaping of history presented in the library, is entirely from the perspective of the president involved. these are self credited monuments. they often are self-justifying

and one of the difficulties is when they become a little bit more complicated as the extended first family passes so right now the fdr library in hyde park, new york is a museum where you will get quite a bit of different historical perspectives on the events during his presidency. similarity the truman library has extensive exhibits where you are asked to examine the most controversial issues that face the trump administration and examine the pros and cons and which way you would react. this actually includes the controversy over the dropping of the atomic bomb on japan. but in the more recent libraries

the more they are explicitly just for the president. the clinton library which opened in 2004 i believe was at the time the most expensive and largest presidential library established. the exhibition is almost completely a justification of every act, decision made by the white house and it a little bit of almost -- you get the feeling of a campaign atmosphere. there is no statistic -- there is no graph or statistic that ever goes down unless it is something -- but this is not history. the nixon library was a very peculiar and interesting example in this respect because the national archives took over the

presidential documents when president nixon declared his desire -- and presumably this was in the immediate post-watergate time -- to destroy the tape recordings that existed. whether or not that is fully the case does not matter. what ended up happening was the library ended up being established in the 1990's as essentially an attempt to rehabilitate the image of richard nixon. maybe 15, 20 years later there was an attempt to take a larger historical view but one director was fired for creating an exhibition about watergate at the nixon museum. now if you go to the nixon museum and presidential library you will actually see quite an

extensive and interesting historical presentation of his presidency. in a sense nixon's scars and flaws become public knowledge. they are part of our understanding of this presidency. now they are integrated into the exhibition but i would not say if you had a detached objective presenting an exhibition about any of these presidency that you would get what you see. host: we ask you to call in to ask about the brew libraries you visited. cindy in new hampshire is up first. thank you for calling in. you are on with edward rothstein. caller: hi.

i have not been able to visit any libraries but i would like to talk about why can't we start think about having a national library where it features all the presidents and whatever we have been able to document their history? and have a whole tour through all the presidency the echo that would be cool to me because i was a jfk baby. i was born in 1964. after jfk was assassinated there was a baby boom and i was born in august. on my birthday when nixon resigned he spoiled my birthday party. [laughter] host: how do you think the presidents would feel about that idea you bring about having one

museum of presidents? and then having the share -- having to share the limelight as it were? caller: i feel some of them would feel great especially jimmy carter. he was like my favorite. i was going to bring him up because i had to write a report, i think i was in fourth or fifth grade, and it was the presidential election. they said, who do you want? i picked jimmy carter. when i wrote the report and i want -- and he won i thought, i elected the president. [laughter] host: edward rothstein come i will let you jump in. guest: the smithsonian in american history museum could be doing something like that but as presenting american history in detail. this does not eliminate the problem that i'm talking about

because you still have, especially today with intellectual issues, you still have the situation where there is going to be controversy over assessments, importance, influence. even at the smithsonian it is a regular issue for debate and scandal. this is an intractable and difficult problem. it is a problem these institutions developed in creating monuments. one of the values as you get a certain sense -- there is information in understanding how a president wants to be conceived and what kind of legacy that president wants to be thought of having left behind. that is interesting in itself but these problems of these

institutions is not completely solved by having a national museum either. it depends who the curator is and you can get hybrid exhibitions that do not clarify much. i have seen exhibitions like this at the smithsonian. the very difficult problem i think there is an institutional issue that has to be clarified. especially because, they are partly public partly private. and the plans for the new presidential obama library which will not be a library. the archives will be handled by the national archive and will not be stored at the library. it is a private building or set of buildings that is going to be

both in chicago that demonstrates president obama's vision of american history and community involvement. he declared that he wants to break up the tradition of presidential libraries. it is quite open as to what it will become but when getting a tremendous institution devoted to the particular individual being built on public land this becomes a very complex situation. host: half hour left with edward rothstein. the wall street journal on twitter, easy to find @ edwardrothstein. you can find as many reviews about presidential museums and libraries. alan is out of fort pierce, florida.

you are on with edward rothstein. caller: good morning. thank you, c-span. such a wonderful program. i like so many programs on c-span and especially like the ones about the presidents. i think the portrait gallery is a wonderful place to see the portraits of the presidents. i was surprised there was only one small photograph of julia grant in the portrait gallery. i do not know why that is. i do not know if there are other portrait or pictures of her at the grant presidential library. maybe mr. rothstein could talk about that. i have read so much about hyde park and would definitely like to get up there to see that. most recently -- i live in florida and in palm beach is

where the kennedys used to spend time in the winters. there is a place that is being restored in the lake worth lagoon that was a bunker that was built for kennedy should there be any problem or disaster and now there is a group trying to restore the bunker on peanut island in the lake worth lagoon. if you could comment about this i would appreciate it. host: thank you for the call. guest: interesting that i did not know this. truman had a set of secondary white house in key west florida. i wish i could help you about grant. there is no library that i know of for grant. the most retroactive is back to hoover although you can visit --

amity shlaes was talking about calvin coolidge's home in vermont which is a small exhibition about his life. but it is not a presidential library that we are talking about here which is i think exploded and the post-world war ii era and has become more and more gargantuan in its presidential presentation. host: we talked about the purpose and the collections themselves. i want to talk about who visits these libraries and why? this is from the harry s truman library. a series of interviews that put together and conducted with harry truman talking about his library and his work.

on the website you can find all these interviews. they are audio interviews but he was asked about the people who come to the harry s truman library. this part of that conversation. [video clip] >> what kinds of people come to the library? >> all kinds, all kinds. mostly youngsters interested in the history of the country. i usually have a room full of them down here, oh, once a week and after they have been through, talk to them, i let them ask me questions. and the questions they ask, i always tell them, are much more intelligent than a press conference questions the newspaperman asked me. because the youngsters have information and the newspaperman are after headlines. >> are there other kinds of people who visit the library to come see you and if so, would you tell us about some of them? >> oh, all kinds of people come here.

very often officials of states, cities and counties come. i always talk to them. >> like yesterday for instance. the postmaster general. >> yes. they are always united states officials. the postmaster general was here yesterday. he had the attorney general and several others here. oh, great many people. the governors of various states come and i always talk to them when they want me to. host: from the harry s. truman library. interviews available on their website. edward rothstein, interesting that he goes to the kids and then the dignitaries. those of the groups he focuses on and that question. guest: it is also great to

listen to him. the ordinary man speaking to ordinary men and women. this is part of his persona and it seems quite authentic. the fact that he was doing work in the library while these tours were being given. now you have organized school visits. i don't know when the library was first set up what kind of memorabilia it had but now no presidential library is without a presidential limousine on display. a full-size or nearly full-sized replica of the oval office as it once was host: maybe even air

force one of the reagan library. guest: which was not even reagan's own airplane. it had been used long before reagan. those aspects of the library, i mean partly it is that the idea that you increase visitor should by offering something for everybody. in that way presidential libraries have become more like museums seeking visitation statistics. but it would also measure internally as far as fundraising is concerned. the reagan library is really interesting. the time i visited the basic lifetime -- the basic narrative of the president's life, which

is also the future of every presidential library, is the beginning in a lovely spanish colonial house on a mountaintop. the day i visited it was packed with tourists, and judging from license plates, the california residents. at some point you go into those amazing area where air force one is and it is a different place. i don't know the statistics about tourism but any time i have been at a library there have been people from out of town the come to see it. that is certainly an aspect of it and it makes certain places a must see if you want to see a presidential library. host: let me go to the land of lincoln. jane is waiting this morning.

good morning. you are on with edward rothstein. caller: good morning. i am a senior citizen and my husband and i have visited over 50 presidential libraries, museums, and homes. we started in 2010. guest: good for you. caller: 2010 and my motivation was simple. my husband was the president of a small company and i wondered what it took to be president. i was curious about that so we started this venture. 2010 -- i am looking at all my notes. we started on my golf trip in virginia, wilson's home there. and then we continued on. i think we were surprised about

a few of these places. april 14 we visited harding's home which was one of the best. i am looking at my different notes. guest: you take good notes, too. caller: we were just so interested in the history of our country. we are old and we remember a lot of the presidents. jimmy carter, polk. host: do you mind me asking? i know you are looking through your notes. you mentioned your favorites. of those 50 did you have a least favorite? when you were not impressed by? caller: i cannot say that. i can't say that we weren't. we did not get to all of them, of course. i think the one we were most surprised at was herbert hoover's site in iowa.

he was more accomplished than we expected. that was interesting. eisenhower in abilene, kansas. my gosh, two buildings, the library and then the museum. he is buried there. guest: excellent. host: before we lose you, and i was going to ask edward rothstein this question, but what is the one thing you have found in the 50 of these you have been to, libraries, museums and presidential homes, what makes it a successful museum? what is one feature, one aspect that makes it successful, jane? caller: when you get human aspects of who these guys were. human beings and the little touches. we went to one place, i think it was taylor, and he was a tailor to begin with.

they had the scissors. you could hear the scissors. it was a reenactment of that. i think it would be wonderful if americans would pursue this. it would give us an appreciation of the job they have done and incidentally i think biden is going to be up there with fdr because he came into such a mess and i will not live dizzy his library or museum -- live to see his library and museum. and obama is building his library in chicago and we are only 60 miles from chicago. host: thank you for sharing your notes with us. sounds like a good several years worth. edward rothstein, to end that question about what makes one of these libraries and museums successful. guest: that is an important part. the biography is part of these museums and you really do get,

in many of them, in most cases an ordinary person who overcomes tremendous adversity and ends up where he ended up. in the johnson library, you get a sense of this hardscrabble life of the family on a poorly performing farm. the eisenhower library has his family home on the premises. the nixon home, the home of the nixon's -- the nixon childhood home is on the site. but aside from the exhibitions themselves -- but inside the exhibitions themselves, you get a sense of the person. and there are exceptions.

with fdr, with jfk, you have very different sort of childhood backgrounds to present. but it is really fascinating to see the sort of human material out of what so many presidents have been made. caller: hi. i guess i would like to ask if you know why grant's home wound up in new york city. and also, do you know the site of where trump will be building his library? guest: no, i don't. host: i don't know if that has been announced yet. i know they have the website now available with some documents on it, but i don't know if that has

been announced yet. guest: i confess to be a number and of this, but i will look it up. host: i am glad it wasn't in who is buried in grant's tomb question. you mentioned jfk. we talked about your work at "the wall street journal" and "the your times -- and open with the new york times -- and "the new york times." i want to go back to the "new york times" piece you wrote about the f k library -- the jfk library. how much do they focus on the assassination, and how much should they focus on that versus his life and his work as president? guest: well, i don't know if anything has changed since i was there maybe six years ago, seven years ago. the permanent exhibits not the time essentially had one gallery

with monitors about the assassination. there's no attempt to cast a shadow backward from that event onto the narrative or presentation, which deals with life at the white house, his own life, and the accomplishments in his short presidency. and there are actually some tremendous videos of his delivery as an orator and speaker. it is phenomenal. but there's a decision clearly to not make the assassination a part of the narrative or give it any importance as far as we understand the presidency of jfk. upon my visit there -- i

combined my visit there with a visit to a really terrific museum which is housed in the book repository where oswald took the shots as the cars went by, and that is mainly focused on the events around the assassination. i found it really interesting to combine these two visits. but the thing about the jfk library, i think part of the intention was to create, i think i thought of it as a sort of a little bit like nostalgic utopianism about the jfk presidency. when you emerge from these exhibits, you are in this tremendous im pei-designed atrium looking out over boston harbor.

you don't pay attention to the sort of individual, in a sense. you are sort of in awe of this place and the institutional grandeur. i think that is the impression we are supposed to be left with. as i remember the main exhibition, the intention was quite deliberate to say in a sense, we all know what happened , but we are taking a look at this period that came before it, which is what we are looking back on. host: just about five or 10 minutes left here with edward rothstein, if you want to call in and talk about your favorite prisons will museum or library, your questions about -- favorite presidential museum or library, your questions about how these developed. a question from jodi on twitter a little while ago, and your comments on the architecture of the jfk library it's into this.

"the clinton library was just six dollars come and we took a chance to visit coming home from a rolling stones show in little rock. it looks like a trailer house parked overlooking the arkansas river to me." on the design of these museums and libraries, and how they have changed from what we have seen of the original fdr in hyde park home to more familiar ideas of what a library should look like to some of these more modern designs, mr. rothstein. guest: that is interesting. i think when president clinton was chided with the observation about the building, he actually referred to this idea of a trailer park, but it is meant to be a sort of industrial building that sort of reclaims this little used area. it is meant to, in a sense,

reflect his development, and there's a metaphor about a bridge that is involved in the design, as if this in some sense , clinton wanted to say my administration was an unfinished bridge where others have to complete the work. that is putting a generous spin on it because it actually is fairly unattractive, but the inside of the main exhibit and in the clinton library, it was president clinton's instructions that it echo or recall the library of trinity college, where president clinton had spent time. so this sort of wood paneling and in men's stacks, which --

and immense stacks, which are actually inaccessible boxes full of papers which would go very high up to the ceiling, but the deliberate contradiction between this sort of trailer park kind of thing that is suspended over the water to this evil case and -- to this evocation of the trinity library, it is a picture of the size of president clinton as well, or the size of his aspirations or how he wishes to present himself. the architecture, the designs that i have seen of the obama presidential establishment are even more immense than any i have seen yet in existence. i think clinton's library cost

something like 102 c million dollars to build, and truman's was much less than 10% of that. i don't know the cost of -- i don't know the cost, but it would be interesting to compare how this changed over time. but there is definitely a sort of sense of grandiosity here, aside from the problem of this is mostly self presentation. president trump, who is immensely practiced at self-promotion, is one of the few presidents who has also been a builder, and one can imagine from looking at other structures that have worn his name how he might want to conceive of the presidential library's presentation. so i think this structure is

very problematic in many ways, both in terms of content and the idea that a president resents himself. i don't have a solution to this. i just think that as this phenomenon has developed without any systematic examination of all of these different issues, but these institutions have developed since 1940, let's say. no one has stepped back to say wait a minute, let's think about what is going on here and what should be done. host: brenda has been waiting out of montgomery, alabama. you are on with edward rothstein . caller: i was wondering, you keep going -- they keep bringing all the stuff up against trump and they don't do any thing about it. he said while he was running, if i shot somebody on fifth avenue in new york city, they wouldn't

arrest me. well, the don't seem to -- they don't seem to him no matter what he does. he's an awful person. it seems to me any ordinary person, if they do something, they -- host: we are running short on time. you have a question about president libraries or museums? caller: well, i don't think trump should have one because everything he's built, he's always going bankrupt. thank you. host: edward rothstein, i will give you the final minute or so here. guest: in a sense, the institution is about being able to make the decisions of who can or cannot make. the ford president library, given a short space of time that ford was running the country. if there was some sort of overseeing curator, many different decisions would be made.

we have a system that is set in place where every president gets to do this, establishes a foundation, raisin prizes -- raises private funds. at least in one well known case, it led to actions of corruption -- led to accusations of corruption. but it is a very complicated and of occult situation. host: edward while staying -- edward rothstein is the critic at large for "the wall street journal." do appreciate the time on this president's day. guest: thank you. a pleasure to be here. host: about 20 minutes left in our program this morning. in that time on this president's day, we will do as we often do here on "washington journal." we will turn the phone lines over to you. it is our open forum. public policy, what political, what state issued you want to talk about? republicans, democrats, and

independents, the numbers are on the screen. go ahead and start calling and now, and we will get to those after the break -- calling in now, and we will get to those after the break. ♪ >> at least six presidents recorded conversations while in office. here many of those conversations on c-span's new podcast, "presidential recordings." >> you will hear about the 19 624 civil rights act, the ending people presidential campaign, the gulf of tonkin incident, the march on selma, and the war in vietnam. not everyone knew they were being recorded. >> certainly johnson's secretaries knew because they were tasked with transcribing many of those conversations. in fact, they were the ones who made sure the conversations were taped, as johnson would signal to them through an open door between his office and the

irs. >> you will also hear some blunt talk. >> i don't want the number of people assigned to kennedy on the day of his death assigned to me. if i can't go to the bathroom, i will to stay behind this desk. pres. biden: i can report to the nation, america is on the move again. >> live, tuesday, march 1, the state of the union. president biden addresses a joint state of congress and the nation, reflect and on his first year in office and laying out his agenda for the year ahead. live coverage begins at 8:00 p.m. eastern. the president speaks at 9:00, followed by the republican response. the state of the union address

come alive, tuesday, march 1 -- address, live tuesday, march 1. >> learn of president biden's pick for the nomination to the supreme court on c-span, c-span.org, or the free c-span app. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we end this president's day in our open forum. what policy, what political issues do you want to talk about? phone lines are open for you to talk about. it is (202) 748-8001 four republicans, for democrats, it is (202) 748-8000, independents, (202) 748-8002. you are also welcome to chat about any of the topics we have talked about on this president's day. c-span's historian's rankings of

the presidential libraries and museums, and the question on whether the three branches of the federal government are truly coequal. this story is the latest out of russia and ukraine, finding out from the white house yesterday president biden will be set to met president putin of russia unless russia attacks ukraine this week. that statement from white house press secretary jen psaki yesterday afternoon, saying that the two agreed to the high-stakes talk in principle, but only if the invasion has not happened before then. we are always ready" -- we are -- "we are always ready for the promisee. the presidents would meet after secretary of state and any bling can and his russian counterpart, sergey lavrov -- secretary of state antony blinken and his counterpart, sergey lavrov."

your calls now out of an open forum. good morning to you. caller: good morning. happy presidents. host: same to you -- president's day. caller:'s -- host: same to you. caller: i would like to alert your listeners to the plans for a trump library. there is a website that has that information, www. djtrumplibrary.com. host: you can also get it just at trumplibrary.gov. cool so it to viewers on the screen. the donald trump presidential library there. i guess that is what the viewer wanted to mention. pat is in new york, a republican. good morning. caller: good morning.

thank you for taking my call. i enjoyed immensely your show on the presidential libraries. i just have to make a comment on doing a little reading on this. these presidents, they get donations for these libraries, so let's not make them all out to be -- before he left office, he pardoned her husband, who was convicted of tax evasion and fraud. i am sure president obama is getting money from other sources. i am sure all of them do. i am sure when mr. biden leaves office, i am sure china is going to make a big donation to him. thank you very much. host: the combinations of private ventures and also the national archives overseeing the administration of records at these presidential libraries because of the presidential records act of 1978. this information from the national archives website on

some of the history here. again, our last guest through a little bit of this, but it was not until 1978 -- until 1978 that presidents, scholars, and legal professionals held the due date -- held the view dating back to george washington that the records created by the president or his staff while in office were mainly purple property of the president, and where his to take with him when he left office. the first presidential libraries were built upon that concept. it was the presidential records act that established that the duties of the president are the properties of the united states government. after the president leaves office, the archivist assumes custody of those records. the act allowed for the continuation of presidential libraries as repositories for presidential records. a story recently that you might have seen on that front, efforts

to obtain documents from former president trump. this from the "usa today" back on cyber a night -- on february 9. "the national archives obtained records being stored at president trump's mar-a-lago club. keeping the records violated the presidential records act which requires the government to keep all forms of documents and communications related to the president or vice president's official duties. as required by the president shall records act, the records should have been transferred to the national archives from the white house at the end of the trumpet adminstration back in january 2021. " that statement coming from the national archives and records administration in relation to those efforts. so that story back at the beginning of this month that you may have seen. anthony in buffalo, new york, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning.

my biggest issue probably would be that we in america don't fall for this trucker strike that happened, and the blockade in canada. not just in ottawa, but some of the bridges that literally are there for freedom of moving commerce. and in the name of freedom, i'm afraid that the american electorate is going to fall once again and do the wrong thing, which is come to either the nation's capital or capitals of all 50 states and block commerce and just be kind of ridiculous in the sense that just because maybe of lost elections, you're going to tear down the country. and once again, wrap yourself in

a flag, the flag, and get it wrong. because that kind of thinking is really retrograde. host: this is anne-marie, franklin, tennessee, republican. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. we only get to talk once a month, so please let me speak uninterrupted. you are talking about the different branches of government. there are really not three branches of government anymore. they all swear allegiance to the new world order. all of our news stations have done their level best to hide the fact that build back better was crafted at the world economic forum. they are ready to mass-produce. high gas is intentional. they are invested in electric cars. rationing of meat is intentional. they own the patents on printers

to print steaks. sodomy books in schools are intentional. they want robots to ripley's police. -- to replace police. host: think we got your point. caller: some time ago, c-span had a contest of why you watch c-span, and i entered the contest. brian lamb sent me a book of the presidents. what stood out to me most where the presidents that died from pneumonia, and the other one was the president's wife that died while they were in office. thank you so much and happy president's day. host: betty, think for the call. this is brian, cedar rapids, iowa. good morning. caller: just a question. where were the doctor -- where

would the documents for the presidential administration be decimated? would they go to -- be designated? would they go to the national archives or the library? host: i don't have the answer to that question. i know the national archives is the designated federal repository, and the agreements of the president libraries act and president records act allows those documents to be held at libraries, but you are asking which specific ones would stay here at the national archives in d.c. versus what goes to the museum. i don't know if that is some thing that gets worked out individually by the folks who oversee those museums or not. but i appreciate the question. caller: thank you. host: bud in massachusetts, good morning. caller: just a general comment. having lived for a while in new zealand, which has a similar

history two hours, drawing on endless common law, to principles dominate -- two principles predominate, fairness and freedom. in new zealand, they did not forsake freedom. in america, we have fetishized freedom at the sake of fairness. caller: good morning. just when to make a statement on open forum that with our government, we talk about the convoys in canada that are blocked and every thing. they are just ending for freedoms. in our country, we have the same sense in same goal. we just went our freedoms. we are getting invaded from our southern border. the doj can't answer questions. they don't have the numbers. if you ever watch the senate hearings, i am sure c-span covers them all, they can never

answer questions that pertain to our economy, our borders. it is saddening. so i stand behind the freedom of movement. host: that is brian in ohio. just about five minutes left in our program on this residence day. should note the launch of c-span's new american president's homepage, available at c-span.org/presidents. that new website is your one-stop guide to our nation's commanders in chief. short biographies, resources, images that tell the stories of their lives and their presidencies, all in one easy to browse c-span website. again, c-span.org/presidents is where you can go to begin exploring, and that released

today. this is terry in dixon, illinois,. democrat good morning -- illinois, democrat. good morning. caller: yes, i would like to talk about these records taken to florida which violated the presidential act. now it has been reported that there was national security and top-secret information in that. i understand he is the president and can declassify, but if he declassified them, he should make them public. if not, we need a special prosecutor appointed, and let's investigate, why did the president take top-secret national security information out of the white house down to florida? we need to get to the bottom of this. host: more from that statement from earlier this month on that story that we noted, the color referring to, the color referring to comedy statement from the national archive on how these boxes of records were returned back to the national archives.

throughout the course of 2021, the national archives obtained the cooperation of the trump representatives to locate presidential records that had not been transferred to the national archives at the end of the trumpet adminstration. when a were presented of informed the national archives in december of last year that they had not located some of the records, the national archives arranged for them to be securely transported to washington, d.c. from mar-a-lago, adding that na ra officials did not visit or raid the mar-a-lago property. your open forum on this presidents' day. frederick in new york, republican, go ahead. caller: yes, this is frederick decker from new york. i am calling because of the minimum wage, the $15 an hour that you are striving to get to. my daughter graduated a couple of years ago.

here we are a few years later, and she is right back to living paycheck-to-paycheck. the worst part of this whole thing is people are on social security left in the ditch because that retirement, we don't get an incremental increase to compensate for the higher cost of living. it has gone up by 15%, 20%. and we don't get that money in our social security checks, so here we are. the rent is going up, food is going up, and we are still trying to live on the money we got when we retired years ago. so who isn't looking at this? why aren't you doing a reality check on what is happening here? host: this is mike out of

california, and dependent. good morning. caller: good morning. my comment is on what president i and is in our that's what prison eisenhower warned us about in his farewell address, the military -- what president eisenhower warned us about in his harrell address, the military-industrial complex. apparently, people in any country resent foreigners -- in this case we are the foreigners, policing their country. this is a repudiation again from the wisest president in my lifetime, dwight eisenhower. host:

another caller. caller: trump made the comment very casually that i love war. everybody was stunned and somebody said to him, what about nuclear? he kind of smirked and shrugged his shoulders. former president trump went to cleveland clinic for the debate, cleveland, ohio. cleveland clinic asked the family to wear masks and they refused. that was unbelievable. i absolutely could not believe it. who do they think they are? host: our last caller in today's "washington journal" but we will be back here tomorrow at 7:00 a.m., have a great presidents day.

♪ ♪ >> c-span's "washington journal" every day we take your calls live on the air on the news of the day and discussed policy issues that impact you. coming up tuesday morning, we talk about the latest developments in the russian-ukrainian border conflict and a look at the synthetic opioid crisis in the u.s. with the rand corporation. watch "washington journal" live at 7:00 a.m. eastern tuesday morning on c-span or c-span now,

our free mobile app and join the conversation with your phone calls, text messages, facebook comments and tweets. >> today is presidents' day in congress is not in session this week. president biden had plans to spend the long weekend at his home in delaware but with tensions rising between russia and ukraine, the president remains at the white house. the white house is present and has agreed to a proposal for a meeting between the u.s. and russian resident and that would take place sometime after thursday but only if russia has not taken military action against ukraine. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government, we are funded by these television companies and more including charter communications. >> broadband is a force for empowerment. charter has invested billions, building infrastructure, upgrading technology, empowering opportunity in communities big and small. charter is connecting us. >>