the leadership will be wiped out. we will be forced to pick up the pieces. while we do have some leadership still in place in the country, there needs to be a plan to deal with vladimir putin right now. ultimately at the end of the day, it's going to be boots on the ground. eventually, he will just surrender. he will go the way of history. the world will be a better place. host: that will be the last word on our open phone segment for now. coming up, we have our work lead spotlight on podcast. that features world affairs podcast, which looks at local issues. that is coming up after the break with cohost ray suarez.

>> i'm pleased to nominate judge jackson who will bring extraordinary qualifications, experience, a rigorous tradition. >> i am truly humbled by the extraordinary honor of this nomination. i am especially grateful for the care you have taken in discharging your constitutional duty and service of our democracy with all that is going on in the world today. >> president biden dominates adjusters for the supreme court. if confirmed, judge jackson would be the first african american woman to serve on the highest court. follow this process. watch our live coverage of the

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bush reacted very negatively to it. he replied you don't have to get snippy about it. >> sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on q&a. you can listen to q and a and all of our podcasts on our free app. >> there are a lot of places to get political information. only at c-span do you get it straight from the source. no matter where you are from or where you stand on the issues, c-span is america's network. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. if it happens here or here or here or anywhere that matters, america is watching c-span. powered by cable.

>> c-span now is a free mobile app featuring your unfiltered view of what's happening in washington. keep up with the biggest events with live streams of floor proceedings. all at your fingertips. you can also stay current with the latest episodes of washington journal and scheduling information. you have a friday of compelling podcast. it's available at the apple store, google play. downloaded for free today. your front row seat to washington. >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back to washington journal. i'm joined by ray suarez, from the world affairs podcast. it is produced by the world affairs council of northern

california. welcome to the program. caller: happy birthday c-span. host: we will take calls from viewers. you can call us on (202) 748-8000 if you're in the eastern or central time zone. (202) 748-8001 if you are in the mountain pacific time zone. texts are on (202) 748-8003. tell us a little been about the mission of the world affairs podcast and where you can find it. guest: it is produced by a small and hardy group of dedicated professionals. we are aware from the outset that we can't be a kind of full-service around-the-clock newsroom. what we try to do is get underneath the headlines. it gets to the third or fourth

paragraph and starts from there. fill in history, fill in the kind of information you need to know to help you understand the headlines. i think the ukraine invasion is a perfect example of how to do that. we don't have people on the ground. we are not a program that goes out live. we don't have satellite connections to take us to breaking news. what we do have is access to scholars, historians, diplomats, military people who help us understand what's going on. that's really the mission in a nutshell. host: you've been a longtime tv broadcaster. what is the appeal of a podcast for you? what are the benefits? guest: it's a new medium for me. i've done everything in the business from local radio spots

to longform tv documentaries. it's a young, vibrant, vital medium that is still finding its feet and finding audiences and finding the narrative form. in 2022, it's a good place to be. host: here's a portion of your podcast from earlier this month. it features an essay from ukrainian writer who lives just outside kyiv. >> i was born in the region occupied by russian troops. this war is a fight for my homeland. >> when she sent us this recording on march 3, the russian invasion was just over a week old.

she has war stories to tell. >> my residential areas a small town. i -- you probably already know this place from the news. this is one of the most difficult. lately, i have experienced a range of emotions from anger and hate to pride in my country. this becomes a unifying factor. this is not because of the enemy but because of our people and our land. i am thrilled to see how our people help each other. the ukrainian army -- the distractions could not enter kyiv. food was delivered to the village next to us.

our whole country has become a big family that supports each other. i am sorry that it happened. what we've got is priceless. host: before you talk to us about that clip, how is she doing now? guest: i think we are planning on having her back. she gave us this dutiful portrait of how one person's life, how one neighborhoods life can change in a country under bombardment. when you listen to her, it's a reminder, especially in this war , of how english has become the language of the world. i think people should be struck by the radio, the television, just how much people are able to tell searing affecting stories, their sufferings and inner thoughts.

using language that is not their first language. it's been a remarkable thing as someone who has been in the game a long time, watching the coverage from ukraine and seeing how beautifully people can tell their own stories and tell us affecting stories of life in ukraine using the english language. we should learn more languages. that's another rant for another day. she is a gem. she is a writer. it's not like just anybody can sit down and knock out an essay like that. it gives a good example of what world affair does. we get in really close. also, really big and we talk about shifts in empire and big blocks of alliances and how they push against each other.

host: what is in -- has been your approach? guest: there is a long history and a near and history. i'm a cold war kid. i grew up in elementary school, periodically getting under my desk because the big one was going to fall on wall street five miles away from where i was going to school. the cuban missile crisis unfolded when i was really little. we thought of the soviet union as the other side of this contest. there is a lot of history that has to be unwrapped. the cold war forces that pushed on the way the world body operates. the permanent veto in the security council. we set about to unpack ukraine and try to give people an idea

of how it is 1300 years old. both of those things take into account that when you try to understand why russia is attacking now and what the grantor project is. host: let's take some questions from our viewers. the first is john in maryland. caller: i have a question for the guest. i want him to tell us the black audience how latino immigrants are coming to america. i'm talking about the descendants of slavery. a lot of these latinos come over and they fill right in against african-americans. how is this of benefit for black americans.

guest: i guess we could talk about this for hours. it's a deep question. there are certain job segments where latino competition has brought down the price of labor and made it harder for black workers, especially in the lower end of the wage scale to demand higher wages. that's true. that's been demonstrated to be true. it's also been shown that latino immigrants over the last several decades have contributed to the economic growth of the united states and ate healthier economy. it benefits everybody in the country, including black americans. you and i, maybe i should take a ride over to temple hills, which

isn't that far from where i'm sitting. it is a big deep question. on balance, latino migration is not that different from many other migration to the united states, except it's the most contemporary one. host: let's take a call from brad in minnesota. caller: good morning. i was in when i turned on and saw your new guest raid he sounds like he wants to unpeeled the news that's already been put out to us. i think that's really important. i want to direct them toward -- when i started thinking about finding out that john brennan went to president obama and spoke about how hillary and her campaign were going to start this russian hoax by -- i know he put in his file that was

revealed. i think he should be looking into why was john brennan putting a note in his file telling them he spoke to obama about hillary starting this russian hoax other than john brennan put it in there because he thought they were going to get caught and he wasn't going to take the fall. i think it's really good to have these types of people that want to start diving in and looking into what's really in the story. i think that's what this person needs to start looking for instead of holding hands with the manipulating media. host: ok. let's get a response. any response? guest: there's more to know on all of these questions and more

that will be found out on these questions. it is unquestionable however that russia has been involved in trying to influence public opinion in democracies around the world. trying to influence the direction of social media, game the algorithm in ways that directs people toward highly contentious messages. it was true in the catalonian referendum to leave spain. it was true in the brexit battle. it's been true in controversies in the united states. that's not a hoax. that's the way russia projects power using modern media in the 21st century. host: let's go to maryland. caller: i've listened to you for years on npr. is this an extension of npr? guest: it's been a while since

i've worked at npr. our sponsoring station, our platform station is one of america's great public radio stations. one of the largest in the country, kqed in san francisco. we have a growing list around the country. but you don't have to be in the bay area to listen to "worldaffairs." you can listen online live on monday nights. it also has a separate life as a podcast as we have been mentioning. if you go to any of the big podcast distributors, look at "worldaffairs" and our show will pop up and you can hear it every week. you've got three ways to listen. you can listen online at kqed, you can listen to your local

public radio station if they are the ones that are carrying it, and you can always listen to the podcast 24 hours per day, seven days a week. all past episodes are also archived so you can listen to back issues of the program. host: ray, you had a conversation with "the wall street journal" chief china correspondent on china's diplomatic tight rope they are walking right now. here is a portion of that. [video clip] >> you have described extensively the shared interest between putin and xi in opposing the united states. beyond that umbrella idea are the country's interests more divergent apart from oil? russia has little. the world is clamoring to buy while china is the world's factory. doesn't beijing want something

more subtle in its relationship with the u.s. than putin does? doesn't being joined at the hip with the russian president promise a quite difficult year rolling out from now? >> absolutely. that is why this whole siding with russia decision is turning out to be a big miscalculation for xi. he started the year actually hoping the relationship with the u.s. could be at least stable. not getting dramatically worse. he is not expecting any kind of improvement but not dramatically worse. now, i think a lot of people really think china is an enabler in this war, enabled russia to invade ukraine. despite the reality might be much more complicated.

yes, that is really a big challenge for him. his whole agenda for this year is stability, stability, stability. that means a stable external environment, stable economy, stable everything, right? but now you are seeing trouble popping up almost in every measure in part of chinese society and the external happenings for china are getting much more severe to face as well. host: ray, what did you think of that? guest: i always like it when we are ahead of the headlines. a lot of viewers may recall yesterday joe biden had a two hour full call with xi jinping where they went over these things in the united states warned china not to overtly back russia in its invasion of

ukraine. this is one of those programs that shows the value of world affairs. we explain china has significant economic interest in both russia and ukraine and has an interest instability above all. but, we began that episode at the beijing winter olympics when the major world personality who showed up to beijing for the games was who? vladimir putin. the leaders met at the time of the games and promised a future relationship without limits. lingling wei went on to explain why that would be more of a problem for russia than china. host: we have a tweet from mlb, are you aware of american efforts to accept ukrainian refugees in the usa? guest: i think so far the

ukrainian refugees have wanted to stay in the region. it is their preference to stay in the region so they can go back home. ones that have family in the united states are going to be waved in, but if you ask the refugees, their preference is did not get far from home in the hopes of when this is over they can return. if i had to guess, i would say we will be accepting in this country a fairly small number compared to poland, slovakia, moldova, and other places in the region. host: stephen in illinois. caller: how are you doing? donald trump talked to the u.n. in 2017 and told them about nord

stream 1 and the germans lanced him out of the room. in 2019 i believe in denmark trump talked to nato and said nord stream 2 would ruin the nato alliance and vladimir putin would have such a stronghold on germany and europe. basically they had to leave. you go ahead and say that joe biden is such a healer and everything else and there are ukraines on the southern border that cannot get into the united states.

and joe biden lied and said he would take these ukrainian people in and they are from a war-torn country and they have family in the united states. so, i mean, it is like the news media is completely lying for joe biden and his administration. if oil was $40 a barrel, russia would have never invaded ukraine. host: let's get a response. go ahead, ray. guest: stephen is right. the biden administration did not press germany to scuttle the nord stream 2 project which would bring russian natural gas through a pipeline in the baltic sea to northern germany. part of that shows joe biden's approach during this whole crisis. he has been consulted, he has

not wanted to be too far ahead of or too far behind the european alliance. he waited for signals from germany that they would go along with an end to nord stream 2 before once and for all scuttling the project. when olaf scholz was here, the german chancellor, joe biden was categorical nord stream 2 was not going to happen. the german chancellor less so. but then things got bad and nord stream 2 had to stop. it is very important to russia. it represents 60% of all the revenue they derive from selling natural gas. it is 40% of all the natural gas that gets imported into europe. it is a very important project, very important signal to russia, and it is going to be a real challenge. we are coming out of winter and heading into spring so some of

the demand will start to wane, but not forever. winter comes around again and we will be here in october when it starts to get cold again in northern europe. we have got to figure out how to substitute for a tremendous amount of gas that comes from eastern europe. host: new york and we talk to nikki. caller: good morning, america. ray, i would like to say two things. mark twain said i believe, history does not repeat itself but it does rhyme. i am seeing 1930's all over again. i am seeing the invasion like the invasion of poland. in 1939, there was a man named fritz who was the leader of the american nazi party.

he had 25,000 people in madison square garden. he said hitler was very good. now we have tucker carlsen doing the same thing. we have donald trump, the former leader of the greatest country on earth, saying, what a genius. what a genius putin is. what role does misinformation and propaganda play in the way the nation reacts as evidenced by what putin has done? shut down all communication from the outside world. why do so many people -- i know -- but why do so many people tend to believe tucker carlsen who is legally unbelievable? host: let's get a response. go ahead. guest: i would suggest your

viewers head to their laptops or desktops and type into a search bar "german-american bond." it will pull up a giant mural of george washington and it brought together nazis and soldiers. it is a striking image and one that americans should remember. history does rhyme. mark twain was right and ukraine has been pushed around by russia for a very long time. yes, they were part of the same country back in the middle ages

but also joseph stalin engineered a massive famine in the 1930's that killed millions of ukrainians. they may remember the middle ages but they also remember the man-made famine that really killed so many ukrainians. there is a memorial across the street hear from c-span headquarters. there is a lot of history to unpack. sometimes the united states is on the right side of history, sometimes it is not, and sometimes it takes us a long time to see which one we were. history has to play out and we are still very much in early days of this terrible conflict. host: ray, staying with history because you had the u.s. ambassador -- former u.s. ambassador of russia and he talked about missed opportunities to foster democracy in a post-soviet

russia. what did you learn from him? guest: he has got great stories to tell because he was on the ground in a changing russia as a young graduate student, as a member of the national democratic institute. going over to encourage the creation of institutions that would lead to a democratic russia. he talks not only about missed opportunities but about historical accidents. right around the time boris yeltsin, who was in physical and mental decline, was planning to leave the russian presidency, his chosen successor in his mind and inner circle was boris he . there was a terrible economic meltdown right around that time. boris and the yeltsin group were

discredited and they turned to putin and putin became the successor. boris was assassinated less than a generation later and it is one of those historical accidents of timing that can sometimes change the whole trajectory, the pathways of a country. we got putin for a generation instead of not only boris but a group of young leaders who would have had a very different approach toward setting russia onto a future that would look different from the one we are seeing now with bombs raining down on apartment buildings in a neighboring country. host: let's talk to frank in oakland, california. good morning. caller: good morning. great conversation and deeper dive into the history. really appreciate it. i have been a history buff in

college but i have a couple of questions and a comment related to my experience as a young man in the cuban missile crisis. i served in the u.s. air force and the cuban missile crisis and the indochina war in a unit that was in command and control of nuclear missiles and armed p52s. my life experience, i have experienced the cuban missile crisis and i am concerned of the trajectory of what is going on now. former secretary of defense -- what's his name from monterey? he is also director of the cia. italian maybe from monterey, california. he is the former secretary of defense and he was quoted a week ago saying, we are now in a proxy war with russia. we are now in a proxy war with

the russian federation. my question is, what are the national security interests of the united states and what are the national security interests of the russian federation? i think we need to look deep into this otherwise we will go from a proxy war with the russian federation to an all out armed conflict with possible tactical nuclear weapons. my question is, lead up to the russian invasion of ukraine. there was u.s. policy going on for a couple of decades to support the color revolutions in eastern europe. former countries in the warsaw pact that were allied with the soviet union under pressure, under force.

the u.s. policy was to support color revolutions in those countries, meaning the united states wanted influence in the new governments and we pushed the idea we wanted democracy and freedom. but democracy and freedom as long as they are aligned with the united states' policy. this has led to, along with the growth of nato from seven countries to now 30 and those countries moving east toward the russian border -- and a nato base 150 kilometers from st. petersburg. the question is, is it really in the national security interests to surround russia closer and closer and having nato bases and some with missiles, supposedly defensive missiles against iran in poland, is it in our

national interest to surround russia? and our own interests, we have had the monroe doctrine almost 200 years. host: there is a lot there so let's get a response. guest: the western allies have surrounded the soviet union and the warsaw pact since the smoke was still clearing from world war ii. airbase in turkey had assets that could be over soviet airspace in a matter of minutes and no time from 1950 on did a nato member state or any of those assets ever threaten a warsaw pact country or attack the soviet union or later russia. the only cases are of the hon gary and uprising in 1956 -- hungarian uprising in 1956, this

prague uprising, and the squashing of the solidarity trade union in 1980. there are plenty of examples of russia pushing around the countries in its neighborhood in order to get obedience and very little necessity for military force or the use of assets the united states and its allies had in that part of the world. the base was never used for one in which to attack the soviet union. gary powers had the bad luck to be shot down and dwight eisenhower had egg on his face when it was revealed we were doing high level aviation surveillance of the soviet union late in the second eisenhower

term. but no offensive actions. a proxy war? the whole era from 1950 to the dissolution of the soviet union is littered with proxy wars because it was considered unthinkable for two nuclear powers to go to war with each other. proxy wars were fought as the two big giant wrestled in africa, asia, latin america instead of going to war with each other. yes, the western alliance, not only nato but the european union, is very much rooting for ukraine in its attempt to eject russia from its sovereign territory. and yes, i guess you can describe that as a proxy war, but it is seen as preferable. every opportunity joe biden says

it is preferable to getting in direct confrontation with russia which is, to his way of thinking as he has said again and again, unthinkable and there are those leaders in europe who are saying the same thing. the secretary of nato has been saying it over and over again, a direct military confrontation between nato countries and russia is just out of the question and very much something he is trying to avoid. i think you are reading the situation, you know, yeah. but should russia feel surrounded? what, is poland going to march on belarus? no. vladimir putin i believe is being disingenuous when he says this threatens russia since the last country that attacked russia was nazi germany in the

earliest months of the second world war. host: let's take a call from bill in northbrook, illinois. caller: hello. last weekend i listened to jake sullivan on the number broadcast. what i gathered from what he said the goal of the united states was too blunt the russian advance in ukraine. i found that an extremely distressing goal. in other words, that is our goal. we are not there to put russia out. we are too blunt their advance. my question is, i don't believe that is a winning strategy. i would ask mr. suarez not what he would hope or wish but what

should be the goal of the united states? i think ukraine is a big deal in terms of the next 30 or 40 years. the world is watching. i am disturbed we are having negotiations, in other words, vladimir putin could always declare victory and leave. but what, mr. suarez, would you say our goal should be? guest: i am not in the "should be" business but the is or is not business. should be is for other kinds of reporters. i think american policymakers have explained over the past month that they do not think it ends with ukraine if russia is successfully able to control, tame, take ukraine off the board. it is clear from his public statements the last 20 years who

didn't is -- putin is enraged that the baltic three are members of nato. that it is bad enough in his view that they are no longer part of the soviet union. but it is a particular irritant to him that they have been allowed to go their own way and have chosen to join nato after petitioning for accession. it is clear from the cards putin is playing he wants pliable, dependable, russian satellite states on his border whether in the caucasus, whether the big prize, ukraine, the second largest after russia itself, moldova, and looking east kazakhstan and the central asian republics with their own

strongmen occasionally in trouble looking to moscow for help in order to keep a grip on power. will he reassemble the soviet union the way it was until the early 1990's? unlikely. but he can do a ne-yo soviet union where these capitals -- neo-soviet union where these capitals are dependent on him for military support for economic and political support. lukashenko is now said to be considering using the belarusian armed forces in the conflict in ukraine. it is probably not a decision he would have come to on his own but he owes his continuing as the president of belarus to vladimir putin. it is clear a client state is underway. it is a complicated part of the

world and the dust is still settling from 1990 in georgia, in armenia, and azerbaijan and other places. host: let's talk to george in missouri. he will be our last call. hi, george. caller: hi. i need to ask him a question. i was watching the news this morning and they was say all of these weapons we got transferred or going over to ukraine. and they get right on tv and they were showing it on tv i while ago -- a while ago. they showed it right on tv here. why in the world would they show that on tv when they know there are probably russian spies over

here? excuse my language, trump is probably one of them. he is calling putin say, we got a convoy of this in a certain place. i cannot understand it. no wonder we have lost wars, every war since world war ii. guest: all levels they did that is i think the russians know munitions are coming in from other countries in europe. i think right now what they are working out is how to make those transfers into a way that implicates the united states to the least degree. and we saw with the reluctance to give the polish migs to the ukrainian air force how delicate this whole thing is. the biden administration wants to support ukraine but does not want to have its hands so prominent in that support it directly puts us in military

confrontation with russia. it may seem an unnecessary subtlety since we are sending the military support, but this kind of thing is being wargamed at the pentagon miles away and they are trying to have american resources had there but have other skin in the game besides ours. that is what it looks like from here. host: ray suarez, cohost of "worldaffairs" podcast, thank you for being on "washington journal." guest: thank you for having me. host: if you like podcasts, you can check out the c-span podcast at c-span.org, on our mobile app c-span now, or wherever you get your podcasts. that is offered today's "washington journal." thank you for joining us. we will be back again tomorrow at 7:00 a.m. same place. have a great saturday. ♪

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