of public health discusses the public health on-call podcasts and the latest in the coronavirus pandemic. joined the discussion with your phone calls, facebook comments, and tweets. "washington journal" starts now. ♪ host: good morning. it is saturday, april 2, 2022. the unemployment rate has fallen to 6.3% but the inflation rate is the highest in decades at 7.9%. the president announced a release of one million barrels of oil a day from the nation's reserves for the next six months. and russia's war on ukraine continues into its sixth week

with the possibility of a stalemate. welcome to "washington journal." we are taking your calls for the first hour on the economy. it is biden's plan working? if you say yes the plan is working, that is (202)-748-8000. no, (202)-748-8001 and if you are not sure, (202)-748-8002. you can also send us a text at (202)-748-8003. we are on facebook.com/c-span and you can send us a tweet @ c-spanwj. good morning to you. i will start with an article from "the washington post." economic growth is steady as u.s. ads 431,000 jobs. the u.s. labor market extended its streak adding 431,000 jobs

in march and sending the unemployment rate to a new pandemic low of 6.3%. the country has recovered almost all of the jobs lost early on although the pace of recent gains, an average of 600,000 new jobs, is raising questions about the sustainability with inflation at 40 year highs. economic uncertainty, including rising interest rates and elevated gas prices, has led some economists to warn growth may slow to modest levels. there are other warning signs. the number of americans who are actively looking for work is lower than it was before the crisis. although wages have risen 5.6% in the past year they have not kept up with inflation of 7.9%. president biden spoke about the

economic numbers and we have that for you. we will show that right now and what it means for the economy. [video clip] pres. biden: in march, the inflation rate fell. the fastest decline in unemployment to start the president's term ever recorded. there have been only three months in the last 50 years where the unemployment rate of america is lower than it is now. what that means is clear, americans are back to work and that is good news for millions of families who have a little more breathing room and the dignity that comes from earning a paycheck. the dignity of having a job. and more americans get jobs as they do it will ease supply pressures. that is good news for fighting inflation.

good news for our economy and it means the economy has gone from being on the mend to being on the move. host: "going from on the mend to on the move. ." it is president biden's economic plan working? start giving us a call. if you say yes, that is (202)-748-8000. if you say no, (202)-748-8001. if you are not sure, (202)-748-8002. before we get to your calls heather long is on the line with us, economics columnist with "the washington post." welcome. guest: good morning. good to be here. host: how significant are those jobs numbers for march? guest: this was a great jobs report. it does not matter if you are republican, democratic, independent. you want to see people get back to work after this pandemic and what we saw in march with the war in ukraine, the inflation

concerns, there were starting to be a lot of worry of the economy going into recession. we still have some problems but the job market looks great by any measure. we continue to add a healthy amount of jobs. you read out that number, 431, 000, that was across the board in retail, restaurants and bars, hotels, manufacturing had a strong game. even areas of the economy we have been worried about like daycare centers, the performing arts center. i was glad to see even things like drycleaners are starting to add that jobs as more people are returning to the office. that is exactly what we want to see in the economy. other key highlights that stood out to me, the black unemployment rate fell again to

the new pandemic low of 6.2%. still almost double the white unemployment rate but trending in the right direction. same thing with women. people will remember they "she session" because so many women lost jobs during the pandemic. 63% of jobs gained went to women. you look through that list and there is encouraging sign after encouraging sign. he pointed out the wage data. some of the strongest wage gains we have seen in years. average wages going up 5.6%. that is below inflation's 7.9% but certain parts of the economy, particularly for workers typically earn less than $20 an hour, are seeing the biggest gain.

the leisure and hospitality sector has had gains of almost 15% in the last year. a typical worker in that industry went from earning less than $15 an hour before the pandemic to about $17.50 an hour now. everybody thinks that should be higher but again, things are going in the right direction on the job market. host: before we leave the jobs i want to ask you about how this month, march month, compared to the first two months of this year. guest: it was obviously a little bit slower. there was a huge gain in february that was well over 650,000. but again, it is important to look at the trend. sometimes the numbers move around month-to-month and the trend so far is, in the past year, the average gains -- looking at my notes to make sure i get this right -- have been over 540,000 a month.

that is a really strong pace and that has continued to be strong january, february, march of this year. my favorite statistic to talk about right now we have basically recovered almost all of the jobs, 93% of the jobs, that were lost are back. we have done that in two years. the recession after 9/11 took us over five years to get to this point and many of us will remember the global recession 2007, 2008 took nearly eight years to get back to this point. this has been a rapid recovery thanks to a lot of things. thanks to getting vaccines, thanks to the $5 trillion congress and the white house approved, and thanks to the american people getting back out reopening this economy. host: let me ask about the inflation rate. where do you think consumers are feeling the pain the most? guest: i mean, there is no doubt people see it the most when they

go and fill up their car with gas. we are still close to record highs in the gas -- at the gas pump. it is averaging $4.20 a gallon. but i think what surprised a lot of people's we are seeing it not just in the energy sector we are seeing huge inflation in the grocery sector. the meat prices are up sometimes 15% in many categories. the one that worries me is we see it in a rise of prices and inflation in the housing sector. not only when you go to buy a home our homes really expensive, up 20% in many markets during the pandemic. the rental market has also seen a really big spike, especially in cities like phoenix or boise, parts of florida that used to be

considered more affordable places to live. they have seen the biggest rent increases during this pandemic. crazy numbers close to 30% in some cases. there just is not anywhere for people to cut. i think people try to budget, tried to live within their means but when you have got to fill up the tank and that is rising, grocery prices are rising, rent prices are rising there is not a lot of places to cut. host: finally, what about interest rates? what is going on with that? guest: obviously, we need to control inflation. we do not want to see it go much higher. i do worry we could see it this spring with the 10% inflation. i hope i am wrong on that but we have to be ready for it. the best thing we have to go after inflation is to raise interest rates. we have already seen the first rate hike in march. we are expecting quite a few more in the coming months and

that is supposed to try to slow down the economy a little bit to try to catch up all the supply issues by cooling off the demand. cooling off the demand for housing, cooling off the demand for buying cars, cooling off the demand for buying bicycles and waffle irons you name it. but it is painful and unfortunately, historically when the federal reserve has raised interest rates typically it has thrown the economy into a downturn if not a recession. this is a very tricky balance to walk in the coming months. the white house is doing what it can. obviously this week the biggest release ever from the strategic petroleum reserve to try to help those gas prices not go any higher. the other thing a lot of economists would like to see is why can't we get our legal immigration system fixed?

we have over 9.5 million people waiting in the legal immigration system and an unprecedented backlog to have their paperwork processed. these people want to work in the united states, who should be legally able to work here. right now, they can't. that would help to get some of those people through that system. host: has long, "washington post " -- heather long, "washington post," thank you so much. our first caller is uneaten. what do you think -- anita, what do you think? caller: i like what heather had to say. the good and the bad because we have to be realistic. i am 80 years old on a fixed income and therefore can look at it from a little different than her brilliant statistics she has got for us that were very beneficial.

the reason i don't know yet, the reason i feel i am not sure -- and i am a very positive person that lives within my income -- i think we have got to wait and we have got to see where it is going to head. politicians on both sides of the aisle have a tendency, one side wants to say how rotten our administration is doing and point out all the yuck they are doing and the other side naturally wants to go the other way. therefore, me, the average voter, we have got to wait and see. i am doing what i can to make sure i keep my budget with the goals i have set to live always within my income, always pay all

my bills, and don't go nobody -- owe nobody nothing. stay independent as possible. i think women have got to have a little better part of the economy. men are still making more and i am sorry, men, but i believe in fairness and equality for everybody. host: you have seen a lot of ups and downs in the economy. you think it is too soon to tell at this point? caller: yes, yes. and i normally am a very opinionated but i have got to wait. host: let's go to glenn in corpus christi, texas. you say no. caller: hello.

all the money they make goes into buying fuel, groceries to go to their jobs. stay at something to eat. that is why joe biden's economy is working the right way. nobody can put money in the bank for future use. i am 81 years old myself. everything i buy at the grocery store and at the gas station is superhigh here in texas. i just filled my truck up yesterday, it was $55 for 20 gallons of gasoline. and the grocery store was $57 for stuff i used to buy for $28. that tells me his economy is not working the right direction. if we are going to have energy independence, we have to give our oil companies back in the field and producing petroleum

for us. joe biden's plane whenever they went to poland, he spent $4 million on jet fuel to get there. his plane is not the only one that flies. there is a plane that goes ahead of him and that plane takes $4 million in jet fuel. his limousines, secret service personnel and the like. host: all right, glenn. let's hear from bill in smyrna, georgia. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i think president biden is doing a wonderful job. i think it is going to take time and the reason we have inflation is simple, we have a supply and demand. right now the demand outweighs the supply. as soon as we catch up you will see prices begin to come down. but at the moment we are all

going to have to make some sacrifices. we have got to be calm and we have got to be patient. on those i know a lot of people use this as a political advantage. the last caller, but i will say this, we have to keep politics out of this. president biden is trying one thing to make america greater and greater and greater then it has ever been and we can all enjoy the fruits of his administration provided we allow this to take place. the war going on now between russia and ukraine are causing a lot of disarray in our economy

because it is taking a tremendous hit. right now we have got to try to work all of this out. yes, i think the president is doing a wonderful job and i think if he stays on course we will be ok. host: bill, let's look at the tweets from members of congress that have come out about this. the first is speaker pelosi. nancy pelosi says, the march jobs report shows democrats' economic strategy continues to power a strong recovery. since potus took office our nation has created 7.9 million new jobs. the unemployment rate is 3.6% and workers' wages are rising with the help of our #americanrescueplan. senator tina smith says this, we are seeing yet another month of historic job growth. the unemployment rate is down 3.6%, the american rescue plan is working and momentum is

strong. it is time for the republicans to work with us and help lower prices for families across this country. another tweet from representative don buyer of virginia, biden boom. march gains brought the total gains added under president biden to 7.9 million, averaging 550,000 per month. jobs lost due to the pandemic have been gained. the unemployment rate is 3.6% and unemployment claims are near 50 year lows. some republicans, representative david schweikert says, no matter what has been the democrats' put the math will always win. inflation is far outpacing any growth in jobs or wages and americans are paying the price. also republican congressman jim baird, at a glance, the march jobs report may seem promising

but a closer look reveals concerning truths. there is very little relief for workers as inflation continues to outpace wage rates and until dems adopt fiscally responsible policies the american people will continue to suffer. back to the phones now. rich in greensburg, pennsylvania. good morning. caller: good morning to you. i live in west moreland -- westmoreland county and we have not even begun spending the covid funds. i think there was about $109 million sent to our county and my concern is when you start spending that on projects, i mean, it will create new jobs that are not there an macroeconomics tells us as the employment rate continues to go down you are going to get to that point where for new

employers to attract employees they will have to pay higher wages which will in turn send up the inflation even higher. i am thinking this could go to 11%, 12%. the lady that was on from "the washington post" said the employment rate for women was improved significantly. there should be no need then for this build back better. i know that is coming back onto the people's radar screen. part of that component of the build back better was the childcare. we were always told that if there is no childcare assistance, women would never come back. well, they are coming back for some reason. host: what do you want to see happen? what do you want the president to do? caller: i mean, i think you can't just keep printing money.

it is not an easy -- i am not a huge partisan but it is a tough situation. the last point i would like to make his we are going to eclipse one billion in covid deaths in april. according to the johns hopkins website and that has been pushed off the table. we are still combating that. again, i don't know if the government's program is helping or not but that is the way i see it. thank you for taking my call and i enjoy you as a moderator. host: thank you. let's take a look at bloomberg. this is the headline saying, u.s. economy on the move, biden says, following the jobs report. the u.s. economy has "gone from being on the mend to on the move."

that is according to president joe biden. even as he conceded that inflation was still a challenge after a solid march jobs report showed continued strength in the u.s. labor market the president says, people are making more money, they are finding better jobs and, after decades of being mistreated and paid too little, more american workers have real power now. the job is not finished. we need to do more to get prices under control. let's talk to john in tampa, florida. you don't agree with that. you don't think biden's economic plan is working. caller: well, i would like somebody to actually tell us what this economic plan is that is working. all i can go is by what i see and i know when i go to the grocery store i see more people with ample food stamps. i mean, i know a girl that works one of the grocery chains,

publix, some have $2800 on the food stamps. if you have a great economy, why do you have an 880,000 billion plus welfare program? what you need that for if the economy is good? why is the government paying half the people's rent in these apartment complexes now? i'm in, i just don't -- i mean, i just don't see and then they try to get more social programs to print more and more money. if things were so good and the unemployment rate was so low and wages are up so high, why is the government assistance growing and growing paying people for income earned tax credits? tax day is like a paycheck to half of america and a money take away to the other half of america. that is my only thing. i don't have any proof of these statistics or how they work.

like i say, when these people call in, ask them what joe biden is doing to improve this economy. i felt that the same way with the last president, too. i don't feel the president alone has to do with the economy and i see that they have closed off the gas industry, the coal industry. those are big paying jobs and i just don't see that anymore. host: all right, john. let's talk to mike in wheeling, west virginia. you say yes, it's working. mike? caller: it is working. host: i can hear you now. caller: his economic plan is working very good. host: why? caller: why? he has not added to the deficit in 2021, it actually decreased. i believe president trump added

$7 trillion to the four years. i am 76, vietnam veteran, disabled and i have gone through inflation most of my life. during the 40 years, the carter years -- during the ford years, the carter years, reagan's second term, george w. bush same thing. this is nothing first time we have had high gas at high inflation. in 2008, we almost bankrupt this country. do we want to continue to burn coal, burn oil and leave our grandkids with flooded coastal states? or do we want to pay more for gas and energy and give our grandkids and their kids an opportunity to have the life we had? biden's plan is working. we have to have both parties working together and we have to make a decision -- pay more for

gas and energy or let our crystal cities be flood. host: you are in west virginia which is very dependent on coal for the economy. caller: it always has been. it always has been but it is time to make the change. i have got four kids and six grandkids. one of them lives on the coastal cities. miami is flooded almost every day when the tide raises. they keep raising the roads. do we want to do this? the plan is working. i mean, i have paid more for gasoline all my life. this is not the first time it is four dollars a gallon and the inflation rate is not the first time it is 7.9%. host: let's check in with some tweets coming into us @c-spanwj. american joseph says, yes, if the plan was to debase the currency and create high gas prices and shortages of

everything, then yes it is working. linda from texas says, trump said gasoline prices were $1.86 when he left office. the national average when trump left the white house was $2.38 or 28% higher from what trump said. also from american joseph he says, electricity in california is not cheap. it varies from $.24 to $.60 per kilowatt hour. charging up your tesla costs between $24 and $60 depending on time of day. those are the home rates. let's talk to jill in columbus, ohio. you say you are not sure. caller: i am not. the one subject i don't hear much about is the actual labor shortage. i was experiencing a labor shortage even before the pandemic where i have two young

adult sons on the autistic spectrum and i have a waiver through my local county government where i can pay people to come in and watch my sons while i am working. i have not been able to work several years now because i cannot find help. also, my mother was in a living for assisted -- in a assisted living facility, she has passed away, but a lot of immigrants used to work there. wonderful people took great care of my mother but we need to look at the immigration program and getting more people on board. the immigrants would help women go to work, to watch their children, or for special needs, or for your parents.

women could go out and be part of society and i think we should. there is a labor shortage. a lot of people lost their jobs. they still haven't gotten everybody back on board. they are fighting each other, taking labor from one company to the next. we should really address that. host: that was columbus, ohio. let's talk to california. you say no. caller: he's a big government socialist. he believes in bigger government, higher taxes.

that's just reality. we've got six dollars per gallon in california. i get the fact that the elite media hates him. the fact is, he was very competent at the job. there is no denying that. my son works for disney. they booked themselves as a family-friendly company. he told me yesterday they came out with a mandate that they know longer for two little boys as boys and little girls as girls. that's coming from the top down at disney. the culture war the left is forcing on the american people,

it's very appalling. the left is promoting it as well. host: we want to stay on the economy. on the house floor yesterday, jason smith to sized the administration over issues of inflation. >> democrat policies have created multiple crises, the highest spike in prices in 40 years, gas prices over four dollars per gallon. a violent crime crisis. school closures that have harmed our children. so many other items. president biden's budget which was released this week deliberately makes every crisis that much worse. with $73 trillion in spending, biden doubles down on his delusion that spending more will

cause inflation to go down when americans are facing a $5,200 inflation tax this year. the budget changes americans another two point $5 trillion in taxes, upwards of $4 trillion if you called the build back broke agenda. american families can't afford what this budget is costing. host: the republican congressman yesterday, criticizing the president. take a look at the job approval. his job approval falls to the lowest level of his presidency amid war and inflation. this is nbc news. during the largest inflation spike in 40 years, majority say they believe that country is headed in the wrong direction.

they disapproved of his president -- handling of the economy. those are major findings of a new national poll. the job approval rate has declined to 40%. carl was calling from los angeles. good morning. caller: good morning. i've been watching this program since the iran-contra. it's a breath of fresh air to see you compared to the people who have been on here. thank you so much. biden is doing a terrific job. when you create jobs, you have a bigger tax base that brings down the deficit. without that, trump left office with no job growth. he left with job losses.

i love this country. we have to work hard to bring it together. i am going to start watching washington journal more because of you. host: andy says he's not sure. you are in corpus christi. are you there? caller: can you hear me? i am not sure. i've got a comment and i will leave it at that and my comment is i think the political crooks and our government should be arrested and jailed. thank you. host: let's check in with some texts we've been getting. dave is in orlando. he says this. not sure why everyone is so shocked that oil prices are up. the one thing biden promise was

to kill the oil industry. that was from tony in south carolina. william in connecticut says this. rebecca is in california. you say no. caller: good morning. you are doing a great job. i say no because it's messing with my cat food. you can mess with me and my food. yesterday, this is walmart. a bag of purina cat chow is normally $13.98. it was $30. i couldn't believe it. my cats are going to need food

stamps. now it's out of control. people's pets will start to suffer. it's very unfortunate that it's come to this. i really don't see how we are going to turn this around. i want to thank you and washington journal for everything you do. everyone, have a good day. host: richard is in pennsylvania. what do you think? caller: it's a very hard place the government finds themselves in. i'm a registered democrat. that's the way i usually vote. it's hard to understand the place our country is in. opinions that get divided by extreme right and extreme left. people feel like they are

persecuted because of low wages, high inflation. i had a son that was hit by a car. this was quite a few years ago. he got hit and broke both bones in one leg. the insurance settled it. i invested that money at the time for 21%. that money tripled. even at that, didn't cover all the expenses. people need to realize that we need to work together. we need to make america better. it takes both sides to compromise. it would be helpful if we learned how to compromise. that's it for me.

thank you. host: president biden talked about reducing the deficit and improving the economy. here he is speaking. >> the federal budget deficit went up every single year. every year. when i got here, we are going to turn that around. last year, we cut the federal deficit by more than $350 billion. this year, we are on track to cut the deficit by $1.3 trillion. that would be the largest one-year reduction in u.s. history. it's important now as we work to reduce pressures on inflation. here are the facts. in the previous administration, they lead to the record budget deficits. in my administration, i just

released my budget this week. we can cut the deficit by another $1 trillion over the next decade while making investments in growth, climate, other decisions. host: that was the president talking about the economy. for we get back to your calls, i want to share news from washington post. sarah palin is running for alaska congressional seat. you remember her as the former governor of alaska and the former vice presidential nominee.

we will get back down to the economy and our question, is president biden's economic plan working? the numbers are on the screen. let's talk to joe in kentucky. caller: i think it's horrible. not since jimmy carter have i seen inflation go up. we run the oil companies. we are opec. there is no shortage.

this is worse than henry kissinger. this is been created by the republicans. they are making joe biden look bad. 60% of the united states is in drought. climate is the problem. climate is why we are having people come from other countries. joe biden is doing everything he can. he's already got china, russia. we don't mean the republican party trying to make him look bad. jimmy carter was one of the best presidents. he got nato back. just think of the other guy was in there. when ronald reagan took over,

the drug addiction for women in kentucky was increased by 270% in kentucky. republicans just want to control us. host: let's stay on the economy. caller: i'm wondering if biden can take credit for all of these jobs. when all the unemployment ended and all the stimulus and all that ended, of course people had to go back to work. i don't know why he's taking credit with that. people had to go to work. he's talking about the company -- country being divided. i believe it's because

republicans and democrats. all they do is fight. when the first shot was fired in concord, i think we were united. the country is so divided, republicans hate democrats and vice versa. at least in ukraine people were united. i don't think he's doing a good job. he's making promises he won't be keeping. host: let's talk to carol. caller: i just wanted to make a comment. i am helping to support my granddaughter. i am 70 years old. i've had to go back to work as a registered nurse. prices of food are triple what they were. it's four times what it was.

i'm a registered nurse. i went to work, my salary was $48 as a registered nurse. at midnight, my salary went down to $30 per hour. medicaid -- we get no benefits. we have nothing. it took $18 an hour off our paychecks. all i got told was find out. $18 an hour i lost from my paycheck on april fools' day. the food prices are ridiculous. you could go to the dollar store for a dollar. now it's $1.25.

when you spend $100, it's an extra $25. if you buy something that used to cost one dollar, it's now three dollars or four dollars. the wells fargo count was $2700. there was nothing but food and gasoline. that was it. mom died three years ago. i am 70 years old. i cannot afford to support her. is it ridiculous that new york state medicaid, people who would normally be in an icu unit, nurses lost $18 per hour.

you wouldn't do that to a cop. they do it to nurses. maybe you could make sense out of this. thank you. host: let's talk to florida. what do you think? caller: i think he's doing a pretty good job. i've heard some good opinions here. what i think we need more on c-span's facts. you are going back 60 years and see what parties did the best with the economy. i used to ask my daddy what he thought. the old money had to die to let it grow. that's what happened in florida. they worked people for nothing for years and years. now we are getting a little bit of extra money. i would go back and find what parties did the best for the economy.

you can tell people what we are doing. let them know the facts, not assumptions. find out the facts. i think that would help a lot. you've got some great opinions out there. you should come with the facts. let people know the facts. host: we are doing the best we can. a lot of people have been talking about increased gas prices. the house energy and commerce committee hears testimony from six oil company executives about business practices and the fossil fuel industry role. you will see that wednesday at 10:30 a.m. eastern time. we will be online on c-span.org. you can get full coverage on our c-span app. let's go back to the phones. byron is in tampa. good morning. caller: i'm a history teacher.

i just want to do a short history lesson. when ever the poor or lower middle class are given money starting with the depression, eisenhower, now with biden after the pandemic with the covid front, prices go up because poor people and the lower middle class by consumables such as food, gas, these necessities. they are competing with others at driving up the price. it is simple capitalism. the new have cars and homes going up as well. with eisenhower, after he released the money on the g.i. bill, the price of housing from the late 1950's to the early 80's went up 400%.

it never came down. the flood of money that came into the society through the g.i. bill and the v.a.. that's why bidens inflation attempts are not working. poor people spend money or the wealthy invested. with climate, we are focused on what's causing climate change. the planetary cycle is that when the earth heats up and they have soil that shows this, more water is released through rain and snow to cool off the planet. if trillions of gallons of water have been removed from the water cycle, the earth is broken. this is what's happening right now. the earth is trying to release

the water, but gallons are lost in something that was never anticipated, bottled water. host: we are getting off the topic. let's talk to roger in iowa. you say yes. caller: he's doing the best he can. considering what he was handed. try to bear with me on this. a cargo ship has a clause built into it. it's a delay penalty. this delay penalty if they can isolate something specific, they eat the penalty. if not, the cargo gets it.

during this pandemic, they had cargo ships stacked up offshore, over 100 of them. every day, the delay penalty accumulates. the delay penalty i ran into was $8,000 a day. that was 15 years ago. i don't know what it is now. i'm sure it's more than that. host: are you saying this is feeding into the economy with issues of supply and demand? supply chain issues? caller: when a whole cargo gets nailed with that penalty, it's not really inflation.

this is what happens when you break the system. how many manufacturers out there count on just in time. they lost 80,000 truck drivers. that blue that out of the water. the same delay penalty applies to supertankers. i have no idea what that penalty would be on the supertanker. host: thanks for sharing that perspective with us. a couple of people talked about the covid-19 spending as part of the economy. this is the wall street journal. let's talk to henrietta in florida. you say no. caller: no.

i don't think it is. good morning. i think jobs have come back. i think inflation is growth -- growth economy is down which will create a stagflation situation. in regard to this war between ukraine and russia, the only reason nato has stepped in is because donald trump made them put more money into their coffers. he was right. don't trust russia. they trusted russia. more importantly, i don't believe the joe biden knows what he's doing with regard to an economy. he has never held a job. everything he's done for the past 40 years has been a big

failure. i'm not saying that. people who wrote books, who were in his administration, who actually spoke with him know he is a complete bungler. that's what he does. how do i know that? obama said the same thing. there's no thing joe biden cannot mock up. elections have consequences. stolen elections have catastrophic consequences. host: all right. we will talk to mary in florida. what do you think? caller: maybe you can answer the question for me. who was the last president to

roll back prices? prices that they raised from the virus? host: are you talking about the inflation rate? caller: yes. host: what do you think? caller: i can't remember the president at the time that rolled back the prices. i assume a president can do it. host: i'm not sure i know what you mean. how do you feel about the economy for you? how do you think it's working for you? caller: it's not working. it is not working. when trump was in, he gave money to the airlines. he owns golf courses.

host: let's talk to nick in michigan. you say you were not sure. caller: i'm not sure if it is biden himself the put the plan together. i don't know who makes the decisions. this fellow is obviously senile. even when he was 30, he was not very bright. the guy finished 78 in a class of 85 students. george w. bush went to public schools. i don't know about his corruption. inflation is terrible. it is a tax on the poor.

it does not affect me because i am not poor. i am quite affluent. it will have have terrible consequences. the price of diesel is the worst. it has gone way up. that is worse than gas because it affects all the things you buy in the supermarket. that woman the talked about cat food doubling in price. that's the least of it. the actual inflation rate is huge. it will spiral. it will not disappear. it will continue. they don't know what they are doing. bill clinton was the only democrat that understands the economy.

find somebody from the university of chicago who has nobel prizes in economics. have them teach you a few things about the economy. host: we will look for somebody from the university of chicago. let's talk to richard in ohio. caller: thank you for taking my call. honestly, i think all of the economic issues that we are having you could go back to that timeframe. that economic thought is not equipped to deal with these special problems that have arisen like covid and the inflation. as i listen to these calls, it's very obvious to all americans

that this nation is in deep trouble. you're not can affix the economy overnight. these are severe problems. everybody is just jumping all over president biden. he is doing the best he can to try to address these problems. it's not going to be repaired overnight. it is not to be repaired overnight. it is going to take time to dig us out of these. some of these callers blaming the poor and blaming these programs we have had in the past like the new deal, which really brought prosperity to poor people. if you really want to look at the history, look at that. how could anybody, anybody trust anything a republican would say about the economy? president bush crashed the 2008, president trump, we saw what happened at the end of his presidency. the only thing republicans do is

cut taxes for the top earners. the rest of us are fending for ourselves. i am very concerned. i don't know where the country is headed but it is not president biden's fault, it is these personal attacks and the republican you played earlier for missouri, come on. and the lady before, i'm sorry, she was talking about wage and price control from president nixon. that was a way he addressed inflation. i don't think anybody would really want that to happen. thank you for letting me get some of this off my chest. host: all right, richard. take a look at "the new york times." big job gains fan the flame of recovery. the virus' grip appears to loosen. a torrent of consumer demand

paired with the decline in coronavirus led to a burst of job creation last month showing the staying power of the economic recovery. u.s. employers added 431,000 jobs in march on a seasonably adjusted basis. the labor department said friday the unemployment rate was 3.6%, just a touch higher than levels right before the pandemic. let's continue taking calls. raymond calling from lexington, south carolina. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i believe the premise of your question is not correct to begin with. joe biden, in my opinion, does not have any idea what is going on with the economy. this happened overnight.

the economy was humming along, people were doing great, and the en bam, everything is through the roof. everything is connected to energy. i don't believe joe biden is running the show. he doesn't really know what is going on, i hate to say that, but it is true. these globalists are the one putting the film on everything because they are trying to take control of the people and they don't know how they are going to feed their family next. we have big problems going on in this country with all of this stuff going on. we have to get back to the basis. we have to get back to america first. joe biden said he was not going to raise taxes on anybody who made less than $400,000 a year. i would have rather taken the increase in taxes than the way it is now. if you think about this, because

everything costs more it is based on the dollar amount of the product. in effect, he did raise taxes because everything is up. i don't know who is running the show but it is not joe biden. i pray for the country and thank you for taking my call. host: all right, raymond. here is from the ways and means committee ranking member kevin brady from texas. he says, there is little relief for workers in march's job reports as inflation continues to rise. wages cannot keep up with president biden's raging inflation. americans should brace for even higher prices ahead and president biden should come clean with the american people that his economy is in a worsening wage spiral leading us closer to a recession each month. let's hear from diane in florida. hi, diane. caller: good morning.

this whole economic crisis, i believe it is in the transition, and i believe most of it started with the 2007, 2008 mortgage crisis. after then people lost their homes, corporations bought up a lot of homes, and other people would buy homes as an investment. this is a necessity. when you buy a home as an investment rent goes up. in key west, 65% of the homes are second homes meaning the people do not even live there year-round so they cannot support the local economy. also, i think biden is doing a good job. i think the build back better needs to be passed because the people do need help suffering with the health bills. the democrats don't really have majority with manchin and

kyrsten sinema denying the votes to pass. i think biden has to open the immigration because we need workers. we have a lot of people who are retired. some people have been saying because of covid they got money and they are not going to work because they have money in their pockets. i think it is because we are getting older. i myself am retired and the people living on fixed incomes are really suffering the most. real estate is a tribute to the main problem. i wish we would implement a law, if you buy a house, you have to live there full time. making an investment it is the rest that are paying for the profit. thank you for letting me share. host: all right, diane. that is our last call for this segment. coming up, we talk about the military standoff between russia and ukraine and where the

conflict goes from here with mason clark from the institute for the study of war. later, dr. joshua sharfstein from johns hopkins bloomberg school of public health discusses his public health on-call podcast. we will be right back. ♪ announcer: next week on the c-span networks, both chambers of congress are in session with peter navarro in criminal content failing to comply with subpoenas and the senate could begin consideration of judge ketanji brown jackson. but first, the senate judiciary must vote on her nomination. we will have that live monday at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span and c-span2. members of the cabinet have begun testifying before congress on their department's budget request. we will have two of those on thursday.

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continues. host: welcome back. we are joined by mason clark at the institute for the study of war. he is the senior analyst and russia team lead. welcome to the program. guest: thank you for having me. my pleasure. host: tell us about the institute of war, what do you do, how are you funded? guest: we are a nonprofit open source research organization funded by private donations. we don't take any funds from any governments from the united states or foreign. we researched various conflicts around the world, most notably the ongoing war in ukraine, to provide both the military and civilian policymakers detailed information on military strategy, campaign planning and that sort of thing to bridge the gap between military and nonmilitary knowledge. host: just a reminder, if you would like to give us a call, you can. you can ask questions to our guest.

republicans can call (202)-748-8001, democrats can call (202)-748-8000, and independents (202)-748-8002. mason, earlier this month the institute's frederick kagan said there would be a stalemate. it looked like the ukraine-russia conflict with moving to a stalemate. what does that mean? guest: the initial russian campaign in the war in ukraine had failed. when the invasion began february 24 russian forces were aimed at quickly capturing the capital of kyiv to force the ukrainian government to capitulate. that for several reasons failed while they did advance in the south and by march 19 the

fighting had solidified into lines without much movement, limited attacks, that sort of thing. that continued most of the end of march but in the last couple of days we have seen the russians finally readjust their campaign plan. they have been withdrawing their forces around kyiv to redeploy them to eastern ukraine and resume operations. but very crucially when we discuss this stalemate and looking at the frontline where there are not many active operations, there is not a lot of moving on the ground, there is still a lot of fighting going on. areas of stalemate can have shelling, local counter and that sort of thing. this is not a frozen conflict. it is an active war even if there are not major russian offenses going on. host: mason, what would a stalemate mean for american supportive ukraine? and for how long that could go on? guest: excellent question.

that is one of the key elements we are watching. of course, the problems the russian military has had logistics troubles and low morale has been well documented and prevented a lot of successful operations. but the ukrainian military, which is putting up a credible defense, is also likely burning through a lot of their stores of munitions and other supplies they had before the russian invasion began february 24. particularly even the last 48 hours we have seen ukrainian forces carry out counterattacks and push russian forces away from kyiv. what is going to be more important as this continues is sustained military support from the united states and its allies. there has been a lot of attention paid to big-ticket items such as jet aircraft and drones and high end air defense capabilities which are very important to the ukrainian military to push back on the russian forces, but as this war

protract over the coming months the supplies of food and medical equip and and body armor and small munitions will become more important. it will be very crucial for ukraine to be able to continue a successful counterattack to continue receiving this aid and not have the u.s. and its allies lose attention and stop prioritizing the conflict. host: john kirby responded to reporters when they question to him earlier this week about the potential length of the conflict. here's a portion of that. [video clip] reporter: how long do you think it could last? months? years? mr. kirby: hard to say. the ukrainians are fighting very well and the russians are not. it would be foolish to try to

predict exactly how long this could go. clearly if in fact they are going to prioritize the donbass region, if what they say they are going to do they actually do, an area they have fought over for eight years, an area where there are many ukrainian armed forces who are also very active, this could drag on for a while. it might not just be days and weeks, it could be much longer than that. it is difficult to know. really difficult to know. host: mason, what do you think about what he said and support in congress, the american congress, for a protracted war? guest: i certainly agree with kirby's statements that it will protract for some time. as he rightly noted with the fighting going on in the donbas since 2014, it has been largely static for much of those eight years. but it is where the majority of

ukrainian military has been concentrated. with the slow performance of russian forces and damage to other units in the first month of the war while they are continuing to feed reinforcements in to push through ukrainian lines, it is likely going to take them weeks or months that they are able to achieve that victory. i think it is highly likely that the war will protract and even if that operation fails, we can discuss later how the negotiations that are ongoing -- we don't think there is high chance the kremlin drops maximalist demands despite failure of operations. i think it will continue to be a challenge for the u.s. government and congress to retain attention, particularly as the effects of restrictions on russian energy supplies start to affect americans. it will be crucial to remember the importance of keeping the sanctions and other responses on the kremlin's regime to prevent it from carrying out its war in

ukraine or similar operations elsewhere. host: you mentioned negotiations and i wonder, how does russia define success? what it be something the ukrainians could live with? guest: at the moment no. the way the kremlin is defining, at the beginning of the war, it was hoping to collapse the ukrainian government and occupied the entire country. they are now claiming all the desire is to capture the entirety of the two eastern regions of the country. to be clear, we think this is a false justification for their initial campaign failing and even then the russians have an opportunity to resume operations elsewhere. pointing to the fact they have ignored cease-fires in ukraine before or the end of the war in syria being ended three times. most notably the full retention

of the illegal crimean peninsula other proxies are unacceptable to the ukrainian government. i think fighting will likely continue until ukrainian forces are able to force the kremlin to drive down demands or, the worst case scenario, the russians are able to resume major operations. we fortunately think that is increasingly unlikely. host: let's hear from our callers. loretta is first in cleveland, ohio on the democrats line. caller: good morning. i have been watching you. i think you do a great job. host: thank you. caller: welcome to the show. host: thank you. caller: welcome, welcome. mr. clark, since you are with the institute for war i want your take on january 6, the insurrection. here we have wars going on here

in america. i want to know, like, what do you think? host: it is a little bit off our subject. we want to stay with russia and ukraine unless, mason, you want to make any comment? guest: thank you for the question. the institute for war or the institute for the study of war make sure we can provide the american population and policymakers with an understanding of conflict not necessarily promoting them. i do not look at domestic american politics. i focus on the kremlin and the kremlin's operation around the world. i cannot comment. host: doug is in yorba linda, california on the republican line. caller: i know right now the policy for the u.s. and nato is not intervene but i remember back in the 1990's with the war in bosnia. eventually you got to a crisis

and i am wondering if there is any threshold that would be crossed that has not been already that would motivate nato or president biden to do something more than what they are doing? guest: sure. i think at the moment the only real threshold would be some direct strike on nato personnel via in poland or the baltic states or nearby. the biden administration and nato has made clear they still maintained they have no plans to militarily intervene in ukraine, although they will provide both military and nonmilitary aid. the other thing we are watching for that is a low chance possibility that the kremlin might do is employ the use of chemical weapons in ukraine which we have seen some indicators of them trying to set conditions for. that could prompt a firm nato

response but even then there is not a high likelihood of any direct nato military involvement other than the ongoing support. host: mason, speaking of escalation this is an "the wall street journal" this morning. kremlin accuses ukraine of strikes in russia. the article says that ukrainian attack helicopters executed a low-flying predawn raid on russian territory. russian officials said they were eluding air defenses to strike an oil depot as peace talks resumed, according to security camera footage reported on russian state owned media. it shows several missiles firing at the depot and setting off explosions in belgrade. mason, what do you think? is that an escalation? the ukrainians have not confirmed nor denied that but

what do you make of that if it is true? guest: as you noted, we have not been able to fully confirm this happened. there has been some footage we had not been able to verify of that ukrainian helicopter crossing the border. the ukrainian government has not acknowledged it. frankly, i think if they had successfully struck, they would have been talking it up. the kremlin framing that is going on as peace talks continue. they are trying to sort of frame it is ok for their forces to continue conducting operations and decry ukrainian attacks. we have not confirmed it. likely, the godless of what happened whether it was an accident or ukrainian strike, the kremlin is going to use it

to rally further domestic support against the war saying, you see what they are doing to russia. continuing to clamp down on antiwar sentiment in russia itself. i don't think this individual strike will lead to any notable russian escalation and if it was carried out by the ukrainian military, it would demonstrate even poorer russian air defenses then we assessed. we will keep an eye on it but i don't think it will necessarily trigger an immediate step. host: rick in leesburg, virginia on the democrat line. good morning. caller: i am very concerned and i would like some reassurance that these weapons we are sending over are being tracked by serial numbers or there is some accountability for the people receiving them so they do not end up in the wrong hands or the black market. we supported the freedom

fighters in afghanistan and 15 years later we were fighting the same people, the taliban. of course, there is a history of corruption in that part of the world, ukraine, and you have your organized crime. the lifespan of a machine gun, a heavy machine gun, is 50 years. if you were going to rob a bank, you would want to have some of those weapons and it is almost irresistible if you are in a war not to keep some of the gear for yourself. i know this from experience. i would like to hear that we are actually tracking who the end-users are and what the blowback will be. host: ok, rick. mason, what do you think? guest: it is definitely a different situation than providing arms to different groups just in afghanistan. the u.s. military is an armed

force structured along the lines of other militaries. they have done steps in recent years to bring their military in line with nato standards. ukrainian forces have been trained by u.s. and other partners on this equipment for some time. it is very much they have their own bureaucratic system. weapons are being given to established ukrainian military units that have their own chain of command and procedures to make sure the weapons are properly used. of course, they are a full and organized military and i don't think there is much risk of a breakdown or these weapons giving out of their hands. thankfully, this is a very different situation in the u.s. also stressed it is keeping a close eye on where lethal aid in the ukraine military are going. host: larry calling from eugene, oregon on the independent line.

hi, larry. larry? let's go to todd in webster, new york on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you today? host: good. caller: i am just curious, and i have always been curious about this. lately we have seen a rise in the internet being one of the powers of the government. just the views taken on internet or congressman or senators suddenly popping up. how do these type of scenarios, being the generalized internet itself, been influencing the situation in afghanistan?

is there a guiding internet interest or is a holy informational output -- host: i am not sure i get your question. mason? guest: i am focusing on ukraine. i am not an afghanistan expert so i cannot comment. i will comment on the relation of our work to the internet. we are an open source organization. we conduct our research through various social media reporting, local media on the ground and government reports. a big baseline is seeing what the ukrainian government says and verifying that with footage

and imagery from the ground to track the operations which there are limits to that and we are clear when we cannot confirm changes on the ground. for us, that is the main way we conduct research. we do not have access to classified information. i hope that answers your question. host: mason, what do we know about russian public opinion about this war? guest: that has been very tricky. the short answer is that while there is a small nucleus of antiwar sentiment the vast majority is at least apathetic to what is going on. the kremlin is doing all it can to try to convince the russian population of the legitimacy of the war it is still refusing to call it a war. it is a limited military operation to the kremlin. but the vast majority of russians are accepting it. the kremlin's repressive

mechanisms are working in that sense and most russians are at least accepting of the ongoing conflict. this may shift over time as we see higher casualties amongst conscripts as opposed to volunteers. largely the kremlin has successfully -- if it has not fully rally public support, he prevented the risk of major opposition to it. host: let's go to the independent line. tom in new jersey. caller: i seem to be thinking crimea and port cities like odessa going forward seems to be more of an objective than a land grab. coming on initially in chernobyl to get everyone riled up around the nuclear that, a land grab,

and then putting pressures around the coast and up towards odessa to have control over a freshwater port all year seems to have been the objective all along. i am wondering if america is interested in putting more into the navy of ukraine and worrying about that entire peninsula as some sort of hegemonic control in they are working with china to secure water controls. like the solomon islands up to crimea. thank you. guest: we are seeing an increased emphasis on the taking of those ports on the south. trying to drive towards odessa, a major city. we don't assess that has been the plan all along. we do assess the kremlin wanted

to capture kyiv and force the government to collapse and is readjusting his plan after that failed. -- the plan after that failed. they have occupied crimea since 2014 and has a number of naval bases there. they are trying to eventually capture those remaining major ukrainian ports, though we don't think they will be able to do so anytime soon. ukrainian forces have conducted successful counterattacks around the city they would need to take before they moved on towards odessa. on that naval cooperation, the u.s. has not been involved too much. before the invasion the united kingdom and ukraine signed unable cooperation agreement to bill that ukraine's military that has been largely caused by the ongoing war. that has been an interest for ukraine and its allies to enhance ukrainian naval capability and pushback on russian dominance in the black sea.

host: i want to read a quote from david rundell and michael casale are. this was in the chicago tribune. " the empire is neither a revival of a centralized system or the federalized soviet union. it is something completely different. a multi national defense and economic union resembling nato and the european union, with moscow playing the roles of washington and brussels. even without its states, russia is self-sufficient in food, energy and armaments. even cut off from? it's, russia will remain a great power with its own resources, ambitions and nuclear arsenal. it is a nation we will have to deal with and one that for our own sake would be wise to understand." what do you think of that? is there essentially a misunderstanding of russia? guest: those are some very

interesting point. i agree with the argument we do need to focus on and worry about russia for some time. much of the u.s.'s foreign policy and military apparatus is focused on china. russia cannot be ignored. it needs to be considered as well. i agree with the point that putin is not trying to re-create the russian empire or the soviet union. i will note that the discussion of moscow misrepresents the way russia uses its influence in the organizations the authors are referring to, the collective security treaty organization, their pseudo-equivalent of nato, as well as the eurasian economic union, clearly modeled on the european union but floundered in the last decade. i do agree the kremlin is trying

to bring the states of the former soviet union in central asia and belarus into this network so it has a soft dominance over their economic and military power. that will continue for some time. i am more optimistic on the effects western pressure on russia, isolating the kremlin is going to be able to have. certainly russia can be self-sustaining at a minimal level, but not able to compete at the international scale they are hoping for, which is why they have put energy and the last several years into expanding diplomatic ties with china and various dates in sub-saharan africa, the middle east and southeast asia. to expand their economic potential. i don't necessarily agree they are completely functioning as a closed state. host: andrew from ellicott city, maryland on the democrats line. andrew?

caller: yeah. thank you for taking my call. i wanted to bring up some points. after the fall of the soviet union and the budapest memorandum and the disarmament of former soviet states, and the fact the u.k. and the u.s. were signatories of that. in the memorandum it specifies ensuring the borders at the time of signing. of course i believe that after yeltsin's regime collapsed that putin basically said it was an invalid thing. everything the government did under yeltsin was invalid. moving forward you had crimea.

essentially the u.s. and the u.k. kind of failed on that budapest memorandum where the ukraine gave up its nuclear armaments despite the fact they were not necessarily weaponized. they just had the nuclear warheads in their territory. nonetheless, moving forward i don't see why anyone can trust anything that comes out of the kremlin with regard to any sort of diplomatic negotiations, especially with macron and the fact he has been going back and forth and accomplishing -- i'm not sure what, other than being played. any thoughts on those points? guest: sure. excellent questions. particularly the budapest memorandum which was an agreement for the former soviet states to give up their nuclear weapons.

it was not a binding treaty in the sense that signed by the u.s., you can russia to respect ukrainian sovereignty. it did not commit any one of the states to defend ukraine if its territory was violated by another state. the russian brooch of that agreement did not -- the u.s. and u.k. did not fail to honor it. the russians just left it. yes, it is a theme that other states should not want to take the kremlin at its word with these major agreements. i would note it calls attention to how the kremlin has manipulated the war in the past with various cease-fires in ukraine and syria. using the more -- them more as pauses then good faith efforts to end the conflict on diplomatic terms. we will keep a close eye on that. on european outreach by french

president macron to russia, we are keeping and i on that -- an eye on that. the u.s. and european allies have very much come in behind ukraine. even as some states are seeking to continue direct talks with russia, perhaps trying to pressure ukraine into a concession, the military and nonmilitary aid is continuing to flow. we have not seen any major breaks from that. the main negotiations are ongoing and are directly between ukraine and russia in both turkey and israel. we have yet to see a revival of -- for example, the russia-ukraine, france, germany talks going on before the invasion. host: you mentioned syria. what has russia learned from the war in syria and applied to ukraine if anything? guest: that is one of my

focuses. i published a paper last year. the very strange answer is they seem to have learned a lot better failing to apply it in this war. most of the russian lessons in syria focused on the use of air power and having a good command and control network. making sure commanders and officers are able to control their forces easily, communicate and prevent breakdowns. due to the poor russian campaign plan in ukraine which was cobbled together units from across the russian military -- some are based on russia's pacific coast 10% in in january for this operation. we have seen breakdowns in russian command and control. they seem to not be carrying out the efforts they should of having clear chains of command, as well as they have not been able to have the time and money to invest in better equipment,

communications gear to better coordinate the operation. a lot of the lessons learned by the russian forces in syria, and elite slice, the best of the best of the russian military were not applied across the wider, more conscript-based russian forces operating in ukraine. host: teresa in minneapolis, minnesota on the republican line. good morning, teresa. caller: i have a couple of comments here. i am a little concerned about how we handled afghanistan. was it good or did we just ignore it? that is my number one question. secondly, mason, thank you for explaining and clarifying how your information is accessed. the different groups you go to to clarify your information.

thirdly, why aren't we involved in more de-escalation talks? thank you, mason. guest: thank you for those comments. i can't really comment on the afghanistan situation and the intelligence. i will note u.s. and western intelligence on the lead up to the war in ukraine has been generally proven to have been very correct. the u.s. likely pre-debunked a number of russian information operations leading up to the for every 24 invasion. -- february 24 invasion. on the information we used, we use a lot of open sources to accumulate our assessments of the situation. i apologize. i completely blanked on the third question. host: de-escalation. guest: thank you so much. that has been a deliberate policy of the negotiations

directly between the ukrainian government and the russian government. i said earlier the mediation is being done by turkey and israel. that has mostly been through hosting the negotiations rather than being a direct participant. turkish president erdogan has some aspects and talks with president zelenskyy and president putin. the u.s. has -- is continuing to support ukrainian military efforts in trying to enable them to simply win the war and push back the russian invasion. there is not necessarily -- the u.s. is not approaching de-escalation as a goal as it would likely be advent tatian's -- advantageous to the russians. the u.s. and its allies are continuing to support the ukrainian military and government as it potentially begins to push back on russian operations.

host: let's go to the democrats line. lafayette, indiana. lewetta. hi. caller: i just have a comment. i watched the rising fall of hitler. all we are doing is talking. i just wonder how many years it is going to be and how many millions are going to die before we do something. all we ever did was talk and talk and talk. the prayers did not help the bit. hitler ran over nine countries. we had to watch 30 minutes of his war before we even watched a movie. he had his own recorders.

nobody seemed to want to stop him. always saw was the same thing. we are just living this all over again. all we are doing is talking. is there anything we can do to get started and get these people motivated to do it? -- motivated to do it? he is going to go after other countries if he can do this. it is so hard to live this all over again. thank -- thank you. guest: there are some differences in that the u.s. and its allies are giving a lot to push back on the kremlin's operations. as he rightly mentioned, there is a risk after the kremlin has

tried to invade ukraine, although so far largely unsuccessfully, it may attempt further operations against the eastern native state such as poland and the baltic states, which it has long pressured. the u.s. and nato are doing quite a bit. they certainly could do more in terms of support for the states with deployments and training and economic and diplomatic support and efforts to isolate russia from the international system or malign its activities as much as possible. while there is more of the u.s. could do in terms of support for these states and elsewhere that are directly standing up and the most immediate targets of russian aggression, a lot is thankfully being done. host: what do you make of american intelligence reports saying putin is not being told how bad things are on the ground in ukraine? guest: i certainly believe them. that is the outer edge of what we are able to cover we are not

getting any open sources on what is going on inside the kremlin. i do believe it. we have seen an astounding breakdown in the russian officer corps with reports that seem very likely that there isn't a single general in charge of the entire war. the three main military district commanders that are active on the ground are in many ways competing with each other for resources and attention rather than actually cooperating. it is highly likely they are sending incorrect reports up to putin. he may not have a full understanding of what is going on on the ground. we have seen growing intelligence that looks to be he has been increasingly isolated over the last couple of years and may have truly believed due to poor intelligence from people below him that the invasion was going to be an easy win and only take a few days. i certain believe at this stage

of nearly 40 days into the work he is receiving bad information from those underneath him. host: the last call will be from vic in gilmer, texas on the republican line. caller: good morning. i have one question and a comment. is anybody analyzing those tankers exploding? what i was watching -- i worked with a crew that worked for red adair. they had those levees around those times for a reason. if the missile hit one of those tanks, there would have been oil all over the bottom of the containing levy. the restraining levy. it would have hit more than just one tank. i could only see one tank burning. i am wondering if anyone has analyzed that close enough that they can tell the difference between one tank burning from a missile hitting it. if a missile hits one, there

will be more than one explode or catch fire. what i was watching, there was not that big of a fire or two tanks or three. i am thinking putin had some low-flying helicopters hit -- make a pass and then they caught that one tank on fire. i am sure that the tanks were empty. they will burn forever if they are empty. host: what do you think, mason? guest: it is certainly possible. i have not had time to do much direct analysis of the footage. as i noted i don't think -- we have not seen a direct ukrainian claim it is certainly possible it was not actually a ukrainian strike. it could have been a russian false flag attack to portray -- look, the ukrainians have attacked russian soil.

we have not seen fern confirmation -- firm confirmation. it is possible it was an accident as we have seen several of those from poor maintenance at russian logistics military facilities. thank you for the insight on what that could have been. host: mason clark, institute for the study of war, thank you for being on the program. guest: my pleasure. host:, coming up dr. joshua sharfstein discusses his podcast and the latest developments in the covid-19 pandemic. first, more calls after the break on open forum. we will be right back. ♪ >> book tv every sunday features leading authors discussing the latest nonfiction books. in 2003, professor noam chomsky

was the first author on "in-depth." he has written dozens of books. join our conversation with mr. chomsky as he rejoins us to talk about capitalism, foreign policy and social exchange. at 10:00 p.m. eastern, wall street journal columnist jason riley with his book "the black boom," where he argues some policies under the trump administration improved the lives of african-americans. he is interviewed by thomas philipson. watch book tv on c-span 2 and find a full schedule on your program line or watch online at opv.org. -- book tv a.o -- booktv.org. >> benjamin franklin left 1000

pounds sterling to boston and philadelphia to be loaned out in small increments and set low interest rates the tradesman who wanted to start their own businesses. sunday on q&a, professor michael meyer talks about franklin's micro-lending schemes and assesses is legacy. >> he says it is my opinion that good apprentices make good citizens. he made a point of saying early on in order for our republic to survive we need people who have their ear to the ground, who understand the effect of policy at the grassroots level of taxation, of legislation, tradespeople circulate in a community. they interact with people of different classes, different creeds, different origins on a daily basis. these are the people we want in our government representing us. >> michael meyer sunday night at

8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span's q&a. listen to q&a at our podcast on our free speech --on our free c-span now app. >> c-span now is a free mobile app featuring your unfiltered view of what is happening in washington live and on-demand. keep up with the biggest events with live streams of floor proceedings and hearings from the u.s. congress, white house events, the courts, campaigns and more from the world of politics, all at your fingertips. stay current with the latest episodes of washington journal and live scheduling information for the tv networks and c-span radio, plus compelling podcasts. c-span now is available at the apple store, google play. download it for free today. c-span now, your front grossi to washington anytime, anywhere.

>> washington journal continues. host: bottom back. open forum. i will take your calls until about 9:15 eastern time. talk about whatever you would like to talk about. public affairs, politics, the news. i want to show you this from politico. amazon workers on staten island formed the company's first union in a stunning upset. the company says it is disappointed in the outcome and may challenge the results. this is now the first unionized u.s. workplace. this was a mammoth upset. one of organized labor's biggest victories in decades. we can talk about the war in russia and ukraine. let's start by taking your calls. bob in racine, wisconsin. caller: hello.

how are you doing, c-span? i missed that guide you just had on, your guest. i just hate i missed that. maybe a caller can explain to me. i wonder if zelenskyy -- he's an admirable man. i wonder if he's playing politics. nobody plays politics better than the united states of america. what do i mean by playing politics? he said, i don't need any ride. i need guns. he comes down to we need help, we need help. well, he realizes he can die. his people can die. this is no game. i think he needs to maybe give up to an underground railroad

and get putin that way rather than these people dying. russians and ukrainians. my last point is, real quick, i can't believe clarence thomas's wife. i thank you and welcome to c-span. host: thank you, bob. mary and nashville, tennessee on the independent line. caller: i am mary kay from nashville, tennessee. i'm calling about biden's policy and why people might be confused. why independents who maybe thought biden would prove to be a more moderate president and get things accomplished and more of a balanced way, why his approval rating might be so low. i saw someone the other day speaking, saying i think his

approval ratings should be 70% now. no, because his policies. i think americans can look at the inflation. coronavirus had an effect but the biden policy has put fire to that with the energy policies. whereas i support going green, i think we need to have a resilient energy plan portfolio like you have an investment portfolio so we always will need oil and gas. it will be part of our balanced, reliable and energy is so key to inflation, to national security as we see. i think if it's a global initiative or whatever, biden does not seem to be fully yet the reins. he is deftly getting pushed on all sides for different policies. immigration too.

we have an open border. he is not encouraging congress to address that. those are some of the things i was concerned. with ukraine, i know we don't want world war iii. however, it would be nice if we could somehow have some type of airspace to help these refugees get out, supplies go in so it is not like we are going into conflict against russia but we are going in help those poor people. that is what i wanted to share. host: a former caller mentioned president zelenskyy of ukraine. this is usa today. zelenskyy says retreating russian forces are booby-trap in ukrainian streets and the u.s. pledges military equipment. president zelenskyy said russia is leaving a treacherous landscape in its wake as the

invading forces retreat from around kyiv, booby-trap in streets and civilian homes. they are mining the whole territory. they are mining homes, equipment, even the bodies of people who are killed. that was in a video address from president zelenskyy yesterday. let's talk to james in newark, new jersey on the democrats line. caller: hello, c-span. known chomsky made it -- noam chomsky made an essay about the true tax cut american beggar billionaires pay. it is 94%. they pay nothing in tax. 94%. i'm no moderate. i have been there, done that with every group in society.

american society. 94% pay nothing in tax, mega billionaires. that is sick. host: ok, james. there is news about jen psaki, the white house press secretary leaving to go to msnbc. axios is reporting she is likely leaving the white house soon for a new job at msnbc. she was asked about it yesterday at the press briefing about a potential conflict of interest in negotiating for a new job with a media outlet while still serving as the white house press secretary. here she is. [video] >> given the reports confirmed, how can you continue to be an effective [indiscernible] if you have lands to join a media outlet? >> i have nothing to announce

about any conversations or any future plans. at whatever time i leave the white house i can promise you the first thing i will do is sleep and spend time with my three and six are bold who are my most important audience of all. i would say that, again, i have taken the ethics, legal requirements to the highest very seriously. any discussions and considerations about future employment, as any official would, i have taken steps beyond that to ensure there is no conflict. >> i understand what you are saying. how is it ethical to have these conversations while you continue to have a job? >> there are a range of stringent ethical and legal requirements imposed on everybody in this administration and many administrations past about conversations with future employers. that is true of any industry you are working in. i have abided by those and tried

to take steps to go beyond that. >> is of the policy to have discussions even indirectly with institutions that can impact their jobs here? >> does the policy to ensure anyone having conversations about future employment does so through consultation with the white house counsel's office and ensuring they abide by ethics and legal requirements. those are conversations i have taken very seriously and abided by every component of. host: that is jen psaki at the white house yesterday. this is open forum. we are talking about whatever you want to talk about. rich from marion, ohio on the republican line. caller: good morning. interesting discussions here. this is more than just a discussion. people have come up with no shoes on this problem. -- snowshoes on this problem.

we are shaken by countries who have the bomb. they try to pay them off. north korea,, you name it. how we can stay out of their web is a challenge. they get legacies of declaring war on peaceful countries. one way we could avoid it is energy independence. let's watch the dollars go. we have a choice of being energy independent two years ago, or we can pay these dictators that may have the atomic power to destroy the world and shake us down. or, we can put the dollars in the u.s. rather than send our dollars to dictators like russia and other ones. there are probably a hundred other ideas. they seem to have a way to shake us down in the worst ways.

if we don't do what they want, they will start rallying weapons. we better behave. people just want to make a living and have enough this year. that is one solution. we have to get solutions and stop this radical stuff. we have a lot of brains that can come up with solutions. it is time to get it done. host: lafayette, indiana on the independent line. hi, terry. caller: good morning. i would like to speak about president biden being on tv the other day speaking -- he signed an executive order to the federal reserve to check out a new money system. that is scary to me, because charles schwab with his world economic forum talking about that too.

they will be able to take control of the united states. you will have digital currency. if you don't do what they say, you won't get no money. they will shut you off. the world economic forum and charles schwab in them are talking about by 2030 we will of nothing and be happy. -- own nothing and be happy. biden is part of it. i believe that afghanistan, the 13 soldiers we had murdered by the taliban, that bomb, and 170 helpers died from that bomb. that should be -- what you call it? he should be taken out of office.

not impeachment but treason. our southern border open with millions come in there, that is also a treason charge. a needs to get out before they get the new monetary system in, because they will have complete control of us if they have that monetary system in. we will own nothing. they are taking away our vehicles even and our food supply will be very short. biden has already talked about that and it is very scary. host: another article here from the hill about marijuana legalization voted on in the house of representatives. just three gop lawmakers back in the marijuana legalization vote. two democrats vote no. only three republicans joined with all that two democrats in

support of legalization nationwide. three republicans. representatives matt gaetz, brian mast and tom mcclintock. let's talk to brenda in fort lee, new jersey on the democrats line. caller: good morning. i am calling in regards to -- i'm so disappointed. i have always been a democrat. i'm so disappointed in president biden. how his policies are doing. he could be more apt to changing things for the better but he is not. i'm a retired senior citizen along with a lot of other people in america that are struggling. food prices are high. gas is very high. his way of doing things is just terrible. i am coming to change to becoming a republican. i don't think there is anything going forward with this

gentleman, president biden and kamala harris. nothing. it is such a shame. he was in one day and closing down pipelines for gas and oil. all the other things he has done were terribly wrong. he gets before the podium and he says things he does not understand what he is saying. whoever is writing for him to read off his card is doing a terrible job. thank you so much for listening. i hope things change for the better. host: a couple of programming notes for you. monday morning, the senate judiciary committee will vote on whether to send supreme court nominee just tonti brown jackson to the full senate -- katanji brown jackson. you can watch that live coverage

beginning at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span, c-span.org, and with our free c-span app c-span now. tuesday, lloyd austin of the chair of the joint chiefs of staff general mark milley will testify on the president's 2023 defense budget request. that is live at 9:30 a.m. eastern on c-span3. it will be online at c-span.org and our free video app c-span now. we are taking your calls on open forum. sandro from montana. caller: yes, ma'am. mi there? -- mi there -- am i there? my phone is making a funny noise. i have a couple of opinions. one is i don't believe putin is the benevolent fellow everybody

seems to think he is. i think he is trying to expand beyond his borders to the old ussr and possibly beyond. the second opinion i have is, i don't believe our leadership in washington right now is strong enough to dissuade him from doing so. i am putting that as diplomatically as i can. host: let's talk to john in valhalla, new york, democrats line. caller: good morning. how are you? i want to make two points if possible. i believe they are serious. number one, the secretary of the

treasury right at the beginning of donald trump's coming into office, they put out a report that the secretary owes $1 billion to taxpayers for travel expenses and his vacation. well, they said that donald trump told him if he can hide his taxes and nobody sees them, he doesn't have to pay that money back. i would like the fbi to check into that because that is very serious. that he's going to get away with it. thank you. host: ok, john. about russia, the washington post is talking about the red cross not being able to get into mariapol.

treasures -- treacherous ground conditions handed relief where tens of thousands of ukrainians remain trapped under russian siege as aid workers try to reach them. about 6200 civilians, many who fled on their own in recent days and weeks, were transported friday from russian held territory outside of the city into the relative safety of the ukrainian controlled area. the international committee of the red cross at its team was unable to enter mariupol despite assurances of a cease-fire and safe passage for civilians. they will try again on saturday. robert in indiana on the republican line. caller: thank you for letting me talk. i just -- i believe we are going

for a one world government and one world church simply because they are trying to change the money. legalize drugs and stuff. i don't care what kind of what you think it will affect you. biden has no idea what he is doing. we have got to get this country straightened out. these democrats, i don't know how they can think he's doing a good job when he's trying to destroy this country. that is my opinion. host: ok, robert. deborah -- pete on the independent line. caller: thank you for allowing me to speak. i'm 70 years old. i have never seen our country in this state. terrible state we are in right now. i will go down a quick list and then i will go away.

it is amazing. donald trump were in office, none of this stuff in ukraine would be going on. what happened -- would it have happen down the road? possibly. donald trump when he dealt with kim jong-un he said, you pull anything, any fast moves, you will be met with fire and fury. he squelched that. number two, as far as the energy in this country, these people are pushing this new green deal on all these initiatives. it is totally meaningless. we will end up in another great depression. only this one will be forever, at least the rest of my lifetime. jennifer granholm was a lousy governor in the state of michigan. number two, she also is involved with the electric vehicle industry.

big type major shareholder. that's a conflict of interest. all these skunks need to be exposed for who and what they are and we need to move on as a country. thank you. host: that will be good for open forum. coming up, dr. joshua sharfstein from johns hopkins bloomberg school of public health. he discusses the podcast "public health on-call," and the latest development in the covid-19 pandemic. stay with us. >> next week on the c-span networks, both chambers are in session with the house voting to hold former trump aide's peter navarro and dansk aveeno and criminal content -- dan scavino in criminal contempt. first, the judiciary committee must vote on judge jackson's nomination. we will have that live on monday

on c-span and c-span2. members of the president's cabinet began testifying before congress on the departments' budget requests. we will have those hearings on tuesday. defense secretary lloyd austin and general mark milley testify at 9:30 a.m. eastern live on c-span3. health and human services secretary hobby or for sarah presents the 2023 budget at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span.org and the c-span now free video app. wednesday, treasury secretary janet yellen testifies before the house financial services committee on sanctions and the international financial system. also wednesday at 10:30 a.m. eastern on c-span3, ceos of six oil companies testify before the house energy and commerce committee on rising gas prices. watch next week live on the

c-span networks or on c-span now, our free mobile video app. head over to c-span.org for scheduling information or to stream video live or on-demand anytime. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. >> something i do because i find it intellectually challenging and exciting and demanding. something i do because i feel it has to be done. >> professor noam chomsky was the first author on book tv's "in-depth." live on sunday at noon eastern, join our conversation with mr. chomsky as he rejoins us to talk about capitalism, u.s. foreign policy and social exchange. some recent books include "consequences of capitalism "

and "notes on resistance." live sunday at noon eastern on book tv on c-span2. >> all this month watch the top 20 when winning videos from our c-span studentcam video documentary competition. every morning we will show one of our winners whose documentary taught us how the federal government impacted their lives. once all the student document reese anytime online at studentcam.org. >> washington journal continues. host: book back to washington journal. it is our saturday spotlight on podcast segment. i have dr. joshua sharfstein from the johns hopkins bloomberg school of public health. welcome to the program. guest: thanks so much for having me. host: your podcast is "public

health on-call." when did it start? guest: i work at the johns hopkins bloomberg school of public health. we were paying a lot of attention to any respiratory disease in the early part of 2020. a lot of what i was learning was in the halls of the school. not so much from all the reporting. people really did not know what was going on. we have experts in epidemiology and at a certain point i thought , and the dean thought these conversations at the school, we should broaden the audience. we started at the beginning of march of 2020 with the idea we do it for a couple of months. we interviewed people primarily at the school. 10 to 15 minute segments on different topics. our first few podcasts were

about the basics. what the virus is, the coronavirus, what are we worried about, infectious disease modeling and with the virus could do, key policy questions. it just kept going. at one point we were doing two episodes a day. so many people were listening. it has really turned into 7 million downloads. we have 300 episodes. it has been a really important product for public health to reach out to the world and share knowledge. not just of the incredible faculty we have but we have interviewed health leaders, community leaders. we have broadened into other issues like climate, racism, ukraine, issues of intense importance to public health. host: listeners can join the conversation. give us a call according to where you are in the united states.

if you are in the eastern and central time zones, call (202) 748-8000. mountain and pacific, (202) 748-8001. if you are in the medical profession, we have a line for you and that is (202) 748-8002. you can also text us your comments or questions at (202) 748-8003. dr. sharfstein, you have an episode called "new zealand's world-class covid response." what was world-class about their response? guest: they certainly have done very well during the pandemic as measured by one of the most important metrics, the number of people who have died. just a couple of hundred people have died every two years. their death rate is far, far below the united states. they have also been able to do that with a tremendous amount of support across the population.

there have been some small groups protesting different restrictions but by and large the vast majority of new zealanders have stuck together and done things to protect each other. i interviewed a doctor from san francisco during the pandemic. she is a forensic pathologist. she had seen death after death in san francisco of covid early in the pandemic. she moved to new zealand and went to a place. it was like going back in time for people did not have to wear a mask or they had stopped the transmission of covid for so long. host: i want to ask about covid funding. president biden this week spoke about what a lack of funding could mean for the purchases of vaccines, including boosters. [video] >> if you have not gotten your first booster, please don't wait. do it today.

those who were 50 and older and those that are immunocompromised can now get more protection than they had for the initial first doses. we have enough supply to get booster shots to those newly eligible individuals. but if congress fails to act, we want not -- we won't have the supply we need this fall to make sure they are free, easily accessible for all americans. even worse, if we need a different vaccine for the future to combat a new variant, we will not have enough money to purchase it. we cannot allow that to happen. congress, we need to secure additional supply now. now. we cannot wait as we find ourselves in the midst of an effort search to act -- of another searched act -- surge tact. we need efforts to vaccinate the world. it is critical to our ability to protect against new variants.

there is no wall you can build high enough to keep out of virus. -- a virus. host: i want to ask about the second boosters. do you think everyone over 50 should go ahead and get their second booster? eventually will everyone need the second booster? guest: i think it is likely eventually we will need to get it. it provides extra protection. the most important is the primary series. it provides an enormous amount of protection against hospitalization and death from covid-19. if you are listening and have not gotten vaccinated, look around. all the people who have died are that are unvaccinated. think about the people who are important in your life. you don't want to regret missing them not being there for them. the first couple of shots are critical. the booster and second booster are helpful. they are definitely helpful,

particularly for people who are older or immunocompromised. i was watching closely for the shots became available for my parents in their 70's and for myself. i'm over 50 and i'm traveling a bit. i want to reduce the chance i will get sick. i think my wrist for my primary series has been very low. personally i would like not to get sick with covid and potentially risk long covid and things like that. i think the president is right. it is good to have the shots available for americans. it's very important that the shots are free and available in a lot of different community locations. that is absolutely critical for people to have access. it is very important congress allocates funding for not just the vaccine but for treatment

and testing and all the things we need to do. as bad as it has been, it could be worse if we can't protect people. host: before we start taking callers, i want to ask about ba.2. what is going on with it? guest: we did a podcast recently with a professor, a leading virologist. i can have my opinions about things but i get to talk to some of the top experts. it is a lot like the omicron variant. it is able to spread even easier than that in populations. it has become dominant in the united states it caused a huge surge in europe. there is concern it could cause a big surge in the united states. the professor told me he has a little bit more hope that other people it will not be quite as bad in this country because so many people got omicron.

there is some immunity that can transfer. it is a reminder these variants may cause problems, including this one in the u.s. and they are likely to come. people should not have the attitude that this is all behind us. it's very important to stay on top of your vaccination and to take a test if you are sick. host: let's take some calls. susan is the first caller for this segment from los angeles, california. caller: hi. hello, doctor. i was calling to find out if the new variant is connected to the world economic forum and charles schwab and micro chipping the public in order to tie it into the new banking system? thank guest: guest: you for that question. i do not think so. these variants formed because every time someone gets infected, the virus is

replicating. millions and millions of times. every time it does that has to copy itself. every time it does that it can make errors. they copies perfect. we are talking about many things that have to be done, many base pairs copy. you are constantly getting mutations think of all this mutations with these people getting sick. every so often we lose the lottery. every so often a new virus comes out that actually takes over. it is easier to transmit from person-to-person. we have seen this happen again and again from the beginning of the pandemic. it is not unique to this coronavirus. it happens with flu. it happens with pretty much every virus. they happen at different speeds because the virus copies

itself. dad absolutely can happen. the next variant can come from the united states, from mexico. you could come from germany. it could come from south africa. anywhere. the most important thing to do to prevent that from happening is reduce the number of infections. that means there are fewer people infected with all these millions of copies. if we can do that, we dramatically reduce the chance we will get a new variant that is very severe. that is why it is important to vaccinate so you do not get sick in the first place. you do become a factory for the virus yourself. it is really important to vaccinate the world. that is why i very much hope congress provides funding to provide vaccines to countries all over the world. we are just not safe if there are so many infections in so many parts of the world where variants can be forming. marty in richfield, wisconsin.

caller: good morning and thank you for johns hopkins. you've done a nice job of tracking the infections around the world. but i'm not hearing is about all the adverse effects. people dying all over the world. soccer players, etc. where is the talk about therapeutics? the vaccines are being proven time and time again, that the vaccines are not stopping transmission or people getting covid. what are you talking about? why are you tried to press a vaccine on everybody in the world when it is not working and it is being proven every day it is not working? guest: i agree in part and disagree in part. i do think therapeutics are important.

you are right that vaccines are not 100% effective in stopping transmission. for omicron, there may be 50% effective. 50% is better than nothing but it means you can see transmission. that means we need additional steps. we need therapeutics. there are some good medications. one thing that prisoner by the must to do is buy a lot of them. therapeutics that work, and i'm talking about monoclonal antibodies and medications available, the important thing is you have to get the quickly. you have to be tested early when you have symptoms and then you have to be able to get the treatment. why is that? the reason is beginning at the

covid-19 illness, it is the virus causing the problem. while the virus is causing the problem, you can take an antiviral medicine and it dramatically reduces the chances of hospitalization or death. i am in favor of therapeutics during that period. however, the longer you are sick with covid-19 and maybe you have not gotten tested what you are waiting and getting sicker, the problem stops becoming the virus itself and becomes your own immune system's response to the virus. it can become a very intense and so intense it is like a haywire response. it can attack the lungs, attack other parts of the body, lead to all kinds of problems and lead to death. during that period, just going after the virus is too late. that is why it's important for

people to get into treatments. in baltimore, we have had testing facilities and you can walk over and get monoclonal antibodies. now that the days of the response are ending, it is important to set up testing and right there you get access to treatment, particularly for people that are older or immunocompromised. the part i disagree about is just because vaccines are not 100% stopping transmission does not mean they are no good. what matters the most is not getting very sick or dying and for that vaccines are extraordinarily effective. michael out on vaccination campaigns, i volunteer in addition to my work with john hopkins -- johns hopkins. i tell them as a physician and someone interested in public

health it is so important to think about how devastating getting very sick or dying for covid-19 would be for the people around you in your life. there are so many people who relies the value of vaccines too late. it is so important to do that even if it means you might get sick and pass it on to someone. the protection against severe illness and death is so strong that it absolutely makes sense for people to be vaccinated in the u.s. and the world. we might disagree on vaccines. i feel very confident based on all the evidence. we agree on therapeutics. we need both. host: peter is in pennsylvania. hello, peter. caller: i have had covid twice. earlier in the pandemic and then i had a week through case after i received the three vaccination

series. i was privileged to go to high school with an internationally recognized epidemiologist and he was just in my hometown giving a presentation. i asked her the question, beginning with understanding that i already had covid and i said i have issues with vaccinations. . before i got it all out, he said you don't really need the booster based on my personal experience i have had. i said i already had it. he said, well, take a break. basically, you don't need the fourth booster -- the second booster. my question is, why aren't voices like that really recognized in this conversation?

this man works at a major medical center, speaks internationally about the immune system, is a colleague of dr. fauci. i don't hear these kinds of forces. -- these kinds of voices. obviously his position is opposite of yours, opposite of the government's. i think it is legitimate. i don't even think i needed the first booster. host: peter, let's get a response. guest: i don't think it is the opposite of what i am saying at all. when the second booster was authorized, it was authorized to be made available to people over 50. there is not an extreme push for people to get the second booster. it is available. why is it available? because there is no question a lot of people can benefit.

it is also true that having had covid provides some protection. we don't know how much. for any individual, it could be quite variable. we are a little in the realm of judgment here. this is complicated. in general, we do better with things that are very simple. either do it or don't do it. sometimes things are little more complicated. in this case, i think it is very easy to say get the primary series because it is an almost helpful in reducing hospitalizations and death. i think it is easy for people who are immunocompromised to get the first booster because there's nothing that can protect against severe illness. if you get to the second booster, there is not as much data. there's a good reason to believe it is effective. i think it is appropriate for

someone to to their doctor and decide whether they want to the second booster, wait a little bit to get the second booster. i don't think we have to line up on sides and say you are either this or you are completely opposite. we should use evidence to make decisions like this. there will be areas of judgment. someone like yourself who has gotten the primary series, and keep her during that, and gotten a booster -- i think that was a smart move. do you need a second booster now? i think that is a judgment call. it would probably provide you additional protection but how much is not known. if you were to tell me i'm going to wait on the second booster, i would not take you to be vaccinated. he told me you had never been vaccinated, i would get on my hands and knees and essay please give vaccinated for yourself and people you care about.

i think there is a difference. sometimes these more gray messages are hard to appreciate. i think i can have a conversation with and if you do mall just from your hometown and we would probably agree more than we disagree before the end of that discussion. these are the kinds of things we talk about on the podcast. host: let's talk to maureen in winchester, new hampshire. guest: i had my -- caller: i had my first three shots and i'm very eager for the second booster. i had dental work that had to be done and i will be taking antibiotics when it gets done. are there going to be any problems with the anabiotics interfering with that booster? guest: no, i do not think there

would be a problem of antibiotics interfering with the booster. they are there to make sure bacteria from the mouth does not cause problems after they do the dental work. it won't affect the part of the immune system the vaccine is for. you can make those decisions on your own and i think the decision to get a second booster is reasonable. host: kevin is next in ohio. caller: i just had a comment. back in may 2015 -- may 2018, i am sorry. johns hopkins rate out a global pandemic exercise -- johns hopkins carried out a global pandemic exercise. 666 days later on may 11 -- on march 11, 2020, the actual pandemic was declared.

why was it 666 days? i want people to be aware this is written in the bible. revelation chapter 18, verse 23, they deserved -- they deceived people through sorcery and black magic. these people are putting something in your body that makes you unredeemable. get blood washed, not brainwashed. host: dr., any comments on that? caller: i have not heard that before -- guest: i have not heard that before. the center for health security does different simulations of different kinds of pandemics with some frequency. the most frequent one was right before the pandemic started in the fall of 2019.

they looked at the possibility of the coronavirus. the idea that a pandemic can happen has been known. people have been thinking about it. it is not as unpredictable what you need to have different kinds of for the just explanations for it. there is a clear scientific expedition for it. people who worry about it no on the basis of science that this was a risk. for that reason, they have been urging people to be prepared. some of those preparations meant possible to have a vaccine. i appreciate everybody with deeply held views and particularly religious beliefs. i hope they can be compatible with taking actions to protect yourself and your families. people who turned their back on tremendous months of scientific evidence for whatever reason are putting themselves and their families in grave danger.

that is what some of the most outspoken people against vaccines who boasted not -- who boasted about not getting vaccines, many of those people died from covid. it is not make me happy when i hear that, it made me very sad. i hope people can see it is possible to have strong beliefs about things and also look at the evidence, hear from your own. or enter hospital about what with matters and take steps that can make all the difference for yourself and your family. host: wichita, kansas, jessica is next. caller: i have a comment from the -- [indiscernible]

my aunt was a diehard -- person and did not get a vaccine and died one day later. i beg everybody to please, please put your beliefs aside and get the vaccine and do what is best for yourself, your family members, your loved ones, and the world. we can end this if we all work together. host: all right, jessica. any comments? guest: i don't think i could have said it any better. host: jim is in arlington, virginia. caller: thank you for coming on the show and thank you to c-span for hosting it. i have a question regarding other covid-19 vaccines in

today's market. there are a couple of them, pfizer and moderna. there is one by novavax that has get to be made available in the u.s. a lot of people are still waiting on that, including myself. i have already gotten the first two doses but i had reactions to my moderna shot. i'm hesitant to give my booster with the same product of like to get. can you talk about the difference between these vaccines and also why it is taking this long? the company made an application three months ago, if i remember

correctly. guest: these are rate questions and we just had an episode on the podcast interviewing people from the international vaccine center about the new vaccines coming. my cohost, stephanie desmond, did that interview. i totally recommend it. novavax is different, it is based on a protein from the virus directly being in the vaccine unlike the mrna vaccines, pfizer and moderna, which has messenger rna which allows yourselves to create the protein. it is a vaccine technology that has been used for other types of vaccines. it is harder for it to be made which is why it has taken so

long to be manufactured at a scale. also, it took longer to be studied. one of the advantages of the mrna platform is how easy it is to make the vaccine. so much became available so quickly for that reason. there are a lot of high hopes for the novavax vaccine and other vaccines based on protein itself. there are other vaccines using that technology. first of all, there are additional vaccines that i think are going to come that are going to be effective using other mechanisms. the second question was, would that be a good choice someone who had a reaction to the mrna of actions -- mrna vaccines? it could be a good choice. using logic and talking it over with your doctor would be a good choice. you also have the -- vaccine. a lot of people who have had a

reaction to the mrna -- it is pretty rare -- but if you do, people have moved onto the johnson & johnson vaccine. your last question was why is it not available? that is a fair question to ask in the sense that this is still pandemic. we need to understand where different products are in the pipeline. the fda does a very careful review of the data from all of these vaccines, as they did for the mrna vaccines. it is one of the only regulatory agencies that does not take the results from the companies at face value and re-analyzes the data itself. when you do that, you get an independent look at what the data shows. sometimes that lines up with what the company has presented. you really get to -- i used to work at the fda and i know them.

they are doing that now on the novavax vaccine. they will prevent that -- they will present that publicly and we will get the best look at the data. i hope that happens as quickly as possible. i believe the fda should be more forthcoming about the status of each of these vaccines and when vaccines will be available for young children, for example, the status of the novavax vaccine. typically the fda likes to be products are being reviewed and come out at the end and say what the answer is. i understand why they have done that but i think during a pandemic it is important to be more communicative and share information. i would be with you in saying i would like to know more about the status. host: daniel is next in montana. good morning, daniel. caller: good morning.

i have got a question. host: daniel, can you mute your tv first? and then just listen on your phone. caller: is that better? host: yes, go ahead, daniel. caller: i have a baseline question, why the hell do we need vaccines in the first place? guest: i'm happy to answer that. i think it's a fair question for people to ask. why do we need vaccines? the coronavirus is brand-new. it came out of animals and is brand-new to humans. we do not have immunity towards

it. it can cause severe illness and death. how does the vaccine work? why do we need it? what the vaccine does is it trains our immune system to recognize something we haven't seen before. when we actually get exposed to the virus, our own immune system is prepared to fight it and kill that virus. it is like going in and saying i know there is somebody who will be coming to your house and here is what you need to do. but some of it comes to your house, you are totally ready to defend your home. if your body is your house, the vaccine is training you to protect it. when that happens, it means that as soon as the virus comes, your immune system jumps into action and it kills the virus and you are less likely to be hospitalized or die. almost everyone who has been

dying in the u.s. has not been sufficiently vaccinated. it is because their immune systems were not trained. let me tell you, when i heard about any virus and i thought, i want to be running into a new virus totally unprepared? or do i want to be running into a new virus my immune system to kill it? not a hard question. that is why you need a vaccine. that is why it makes a difference. safe and effective vaccines have saved millions of lives. there is a strong reason to do it. there is tons of evidence. there is the actual evidence that people who are alive because of these vaccines. host: woodbridge, virginia is next. hi, jeff. caller: i'm interested in johns hopkins collects and compiles data for the covid map. from where i sit, johns hopkins

is the old standard for that information. also, how do you account for countries such as mexico and nicaragua that either undercounted the deaths were mischaracterized the deaths caused by coast -- or mischaracterize the deaths caused by covid? guest: there is an excellent team at johns hopkins led by an expert in data and data presentation and others. they have been working from the beginning to find the data, posted, make it available. they don't just put out the map, they make the data available and people rely on that data all over the world. it is a very complicated process because they need to find the data and then they need to make sure it is as accurate as possible before they post it.

they are constantly working to make sure the data they are posting is the right state and it is an enormous effort. that is why you can rely on it. your question about certain countries, there are countries where there has been less covid testing. maybe the system for death evaluation is not as sophisticated as it is in other countries. people may be dying of covid, but those deaths are not being registered. that is a problem for the pandemic in general. it is one reason why investment in public health infrastructure around the world is important because we want to know if people are dying so we can have a sense of the pandemic and other causes of illness and what may be behind them. in cases like that, sometimes epidemiologists look at different measures like excess deaths. most countries are able to

target the total number of deaths even if they can't figure out what causes death. you can compare a little bit between countries based on the excess death. we have had so many excess deaths in the world, probably north of 15 million people who died who would not have otherwise died. the number one country in the world for this is russia. even in countries where they do count lot of covid deaths, they may be missing a lot of covid deaths and that excess deaths statistic can be used. host: tom is next in illinois. good morning. elgin, illinois. caller: that is elgin, illinois. guest: ivermectin --

ivermectin was once touted as better than penicillin. everybody could use it prior to covid. why are the cbc and -- the cdc and government doing studies -- leaving the medical science community out of the picture. one of the doctors on the cdc is not even ordered -- not even board certified. i got the monoclonal antibodies and it saved me. why is the government getting between me and my doctor? caller: that is a very under -- guest: that is a very understandable question. i absolutely believe in therapeutics. it is not just about vaccines, it is vaccines and therapeutics because some people will get sick.

we don't want to give people medications that don't work for a couple of reasons. one is it can cause side effects. the second is you can waste bible time -- waste of valuable time. if you are trying something that doesn't work, you are losing time to try something that works. monoclonal antibodies work for the virus they are matched. sometimes, certain monoclonal antibodies don't work for certain variants. but when a match is there, it is effective. that is why in baltimore health commissioner was supporting it, the health secretary, the national guard giving monoclonal antibodies to people whose lives could be saved. that is because there is evidence when there is a match, you can save someone's life if you give them it soon enough.

what about the things we don't know whether it works? then you had to do a study. you do a study and try to figure out if something works. if you get something that does not work, there are two problems. there could be adverse effects or you could waste bible time. the studies have been done on ivermectin and the studies were done on hi dr. cochran -- on other medicines and those don't work. it is not a good idea to take them. the role of the government is to help get the evidence to tell people what works. i don't feel protected if i don't know what works. i am just listening to people who are frankly have a vested interest telling me to come here and try this. we had this kind of medical system in the u.s. at the turn of the 20th century and the early 1900s. we had a system where people said try dr. josh's pills, they

work. people would run and take dr. josh's pills and they would die. we decided what matters is not just having access to medicine, it is having access to medicines that work, medicines that save lives. that is what has been the big progress. that is what we can treat cancers now and have treatments for high blood pressure and all of these things because we said let's get the evidence. the same is true for covid. i would actually love for people to have access to therapeutics and medicines that work. i think president biden is trying to spend millions of dollars to buy treatments that work for people. treatments that work are what people deserve. that is what i think the government's role is, to generate that evidence working with the private sector. i do not think just having access to treatments, particularly that don't work, is

necessary. it is actually harmful. host: dr. joshua sharfstein, johns hopkins school of public health and the host of the public health on-call podcast. thank you for being on the program. guest: thank you for having me. host: that is all the time we have or pop "washington journal ." we will be back tomorrow at the same time and same place. have a great saturday. ♪ >> c-span's "washington journal." we is because polic