inglis live from the council of foreign relations at 11:00 a.m.. the polish ambassador to the u.s. talks about efforts to help them more than 2 million ukrainians seeking refuge in poland. former and current white house officials talk about what a modern presidency looks like and how it operates. jen psaki, kellyanne conway, and former obama press secretary jay carney are among the speakers. that is live from the bipartisan policy center. that >> coming up on "washington journal," matthew pines from the bitcoin policy institute discusses president biden's executive order regarding bitcoin and cryptocurrencies.

adam minsky looks at student loan debt and changes to student loan forgiveness and repayment programs. join in with your phone calls, facebook comments, text messages, and tweets. "washington journal" is next. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2022] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ♪ host: good morning, it is wednesday, april 20. we begin with your top domestic priority for the biden administration. president biden has been on the road across the u.s. in recent days to push his domestic agenda. he was in iowa, north carolina last week and yesterday in new hampshire. he will travel to oregon and washington state to talk about what he has done across the country with midterm elections around the corner. share your thoughts with us. what do you want to the president to focus on? republicans, 202-748-8001.

democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002. you can also text us at 202-748-8003. include your first name, city, and state. or go to facebook.com/c-span. you can also send a tweet with the handle @cspanwj. start dialing in, start texting and we will get your thoughts in a minute. here is politico's headline, "arden has been consumed by ukraine. his team was to bring the focus back home." with the war entering the second month, white house allies are expressing concerns that voters might see the president as more consumed by international affairs than domestic ones. the white house is aware that voters' perception about the

economy is still likely to determine the outcome of november midterm elections. as they watch the president's for poll numbers, an effort is being launched to reinforce size that the president understands their pain and is trying to help . look at a gallop poll done recently when asked about the economy. this is what those who were surveyed said about the most important problem. they listed the high cost of living and inflation as the top economic problem. 4% say it was the fuel and oil surprises -- and oil glasses -- and oil prices. the president yesterday in new hampshire emphasizing what his administration is trying to do to tackle inflation. here is what he had to say [video clip]

-- here's what he had to say. [video clip] pres. biden: let's be clear about why we have high prices now. first was covid. the way the global economy works, a factory in vietnam the next computer chips shuts down because of a covid outbreak and causes a ripple effect to shut down manufacturing in detroit where they need those semiconductors to build automobiles. because of the pandemic, we had disruptions in our supply. prices went up. last year alone, automobiles accounted for one third of inflation in america. prices went up because so few were being made. automobile companies could not get the computer ships and prices skyrocketed. i am calling on congress to pass the bipartisan bill. feature board of intel came to

see me and said i want to be able to invest $20 billion to build peter chips factories just west of cleveland. if we get this other piece of legislation and not the other, we will need to invest another $100 billion. do you know what the average -- over 7000 construction jobs. many of them are blue-collar jobs, $126,000 a year. thanks are changing. host: is this the economy for you? what is your domestic priority for this administration? republicans believe when it comes to the midterm elections it is going to be the economy that is one of the determining factors along with immigration. listen to the former vice

president. he was at the young americans foundation recently and this is what he had to say about the biden-harris record in the first year. [video clip] >> how times have changed. the biden-harris administration has unleashed a tidal wave of left-wing policies to undo all the progress we made. democrats have moved so fast sometimes i feel like the left-hand does not know what the far left-hand is doing. it is heartbreaking to see. where have the worst border crisis in american history and it is about to get worse as the administration looks to repeal title 42. inflation is at a 40 year high and the new high was set today, 8.5% inflation, hurting and working families and american businesses.

criminals are being given free reign in some of our largest cities. our hearts broke with the headline of violence that took lace on the subway of new york. our prayers are with the injured and the doves and their families. one of the advantages of being vice president's i get to drive my own car again. one of the disadvantages is i get to pay for my own gas. i was visiting my daughter and one of my unworthy son-in-law's couple of weeks ago. you can take that one home. i told him, let me take the truck and i will fill it up. wow. they live in california. gasoline was like $6.50 per

gallon. gasoline prices are up by 56%. massive tax increases are on the horizon. as i speak to the right young members of this generation, there is a mountain range of debt put on your shoulders, $30 trillion and rising. host: the former vice president talking about the economy, inflation, oil and gas prices, and the deficit. what is your domestic priority for this administration? that is what we want to hear from you. john in bridgewater, new jersey. good morning to you. caller: mike pence is doing standup. i cannot believe it. hilarious. immigration abroad is unbelievable. you cannot ignore it. they tried to ignore it, the

press ignored it for 18 months. that is incredible. what are democrats trying to accomplish? this is not random. it cannot be random. they want to flood the country. crime is out of control. i grew up in new york in the 1940's and 1950's. in the 60's, crime because of drugs. the introduction of heroin and marijuana and other drugs. as i said before on this channel , someone who will rob from his mother will rob from you.

they are getting us out of place. host: in the midterm elections? caller: absolutely. if we don't win, something is wrong with america. host: and you think immigration will be the issue? caller: totally. host: calls from military to contain cartels on the border. a lead investigator says it is time to send active-duty troops to the border with mexico to shut down drug routes and curtail smuggling cartels and control the boundary with effectiveness. the lawmaker led a delegation from the house oversight and reform committee to the border in california last week. he says the level of chaos was higher than a similar trip to the border of texas last year. he says -- cartels send groups of migrants to type agents and sneak drugs into the u.s.. the cartels have eyes on everything and the brave mess of their defiance is stunning. this is from the washington

times. john in temple hills, maryland. independent. your top domestic issue for this president and this white house? caller: i am a black american and i don't see what democrats do for us. they do something for the asians and latinos, they do something for lgbtq. we ask for reparations and qualified immunity and all of a sudden they have no money and they cannot seem to get anything done even though they have houses -- they have control of both houses. there's no point in voting for any black politician or any democrats. i don't have any permanent interests. right now, the republicans for

vladimir putin was a supporter of the black agenda, i would go with them. host: glen, corpus christi, texas. republican. caller: good morning. i see joe biden and his big talks on tv, all he does is lie to the public. i live 175 miles from the border and buses are coming through our area every day carrying migrants north, all over the country. i think the democrats are trying to flood the country to have them vote in the november election. they are doing this under the cover. joe biden does not have a leg to stand on in the november election. the republicans will get back into the house and senate and put joe biden in a box and only let them out to go to the bathroom. we will put harris in a box.

host: michael in appleton. what is your domestic priority for the biden administration? caller: good morning. all of these are major issues for any president republican or democrat. without question, deleting issue -- the leading issue for the administration rights now is to get to the bottom of the insurrection. how many people in the government were involved? over 100 representatives and senators were involved. that will significantly change the outlook in terms of the balance of power within congress and for the nation. it is absolutely critical we get to the bottom of it. there can be no question about what the most important issue is in terms of the current

administration. they must get to the bottom of the -- of the insurrection. host: on twitter, if you are says, "it is inflation and disinformation." james, pittsburgh. independent. caller: good morning. human beings, refugees. they are getting tired of guns and wars. we are human beings, we need a new government. the two-party system is not going to work. biden is a jerk. we are human beings. host: what is the priority for this president in your opinion? caller: the priority of the president is to care about human beings and bring the world together. host: new hampshire, democratic caller. your turn.

caller: good morning. i would say infrastructure. when i drive in new hampshire, i have to zigzag to get round holes and they are in bad shape. one of the major bridges in new hampshire is terrible. i know the original bill had a lot of things added rather than infrastructure proper. we are way behind european countries in that regard. new york city, where i was raised, the tunnels were built in the 1940's. that is all i have. host: where you happy to see the president yesterday in your state talking about infrastructure? caller: yes, i was. but the governor was not even present. these parties have to come

together. it is terrible the way the democrat -- people who call in and say the democrats this and the republicans that. we are one country and we have to respect each other and differing opinions. host: here is president biden yesterday in new hampshire talking about the bipartisan infrastructure law and what it has done for your state and the nation. [video clip] pres. biden: this year we are delivering $45 million to fix bridges here in new hampshire, this year alone. [applause] the last fellow who had this job cap talking about infrastructure week for four years. we have infrastructure decade. this is going on.

[applause] we used to have the finest infrastructure in the world. we now rank number 13 in the quality of infrastructure. china is ahead of us. so many other countries. this matters. this matters for our safety, security, health. about 700 miles of highway in new hampshire are in poor condition. it is estimated that the repairs are costly. new hampshire drivers need extra dollars per year for gas, repairs, and commute times. that is a hidden tax on hampshire drivers. thanks to the infrastructure law, we are modernizing our roads and bridges since the internet -- since the interstate system was built.

we are going to replace 100% of lead water pipes and service lines going into our homes and schools. [applause] there are 10 million homes and 400,000 schools and preschools and day care centers that have lead water pipes bringing the water in. many of that causes mental illness, brain damage. it is really important. host: president biden in new hampshire talking infrastructure and the bipartisan bill that passed during his first year. is that your top domestic priority? we are talking to you about what you want the president to focus on here at home. look at the other part of the gallup poll we showed earlier this morning when it comes to noneconomic problems. people say the most important

problem is in the u.s. is the government, its leadership, at 22%. the situation in russia follows that. 5% of said immigration. 5% said unifying the country. race relations comes in at 5% and the coronavirus at 3%. many of you have echoed that poll. we want to hear from more of you. will hear from sylvia, a republican. caller: thank you. education, get rid of the sol test. i think teachers need to be paid more. a music teacher was having trouble getting instruments she was hoping to get. we need to make sure our teachers have what they need to teach our children. thank you. host: charles in west virginia, democratic caller.

what do you say? caller: i believe we could block the border and make it a safer place. we could turn them around, we could send them back to mexico. also, [indiscernible] i believe he found him in the supreme court with clarence thomas. host: let's stick to our conversation this morning, the question, top domestic priority for the biden administration. margaret in kerrville, texas. good morning. caller: good morning. my main one touches on infrastructure. mine is the environment.

we are way behind europe and other countries in getting clean, reliable energy. i live in texas which is considered an oil state. for the last 10 years, oil people say we are a dying industry. they are because of health reasons, etc.. clean energy is so much cheaper. it is in the infrastructure bill and i think -- is great trying to change it. when i look at people talking about illegals at the border, if you look through history -- i am a historian -- the most economic growth in this country has been when we had heavy immigration into this country and the

immigration policies are not just new to this administration, they have been bad for the past 20 years. people look at the border and they want scapegoats. they say it is all of those immigrants coming in. no it is not. climate change is increasing the number of immigrants around the world because of what is happening. no clean water, land becoming deserts. people don't think critically. they don't look and depths of things, they look at these little soundbites. it is these people at the border bringing in drugs. what about all of the opioids being produced in this country? it is not just drugs across the border, it is drugs being produced in this country. host: on the environment for you

and others who say that is your top domestic priority, a couple of usa today stories for you, "biden caught in clean energy quandary. soaring costs put new focus on fossil fuel dependence." then notes that wind is the largest renewable energy in america, providing 9.2% of utility power. in eight states, wind provides for the 5% of wind generated -- wind provides 25% of generated energy. the biden administration moved tuesday to restore federal requirements that government agencies evaluate the marital effects of their actions. president trump restrict the provisions from the national environmental policy act. the move is the latest in a contentious back and forth over rules signed into law by richard

nixon and enacted in 1970. dave, michigan. independent. go ahead. caller: good morning. where do i start? i cannot understand why we have silence on all of the oil wells and so forth in iraq and kuwait. number two, i foresee some re-industrialization coming. all of these countries get together and big companies want to invest in any entrepreneurial system -- we could have one of the biggest import entrepreneurial low-wage -- that doesn't hurt our economy and helps everybody in the world. you have everybody knocking on

your door looking for opportunities to work. as an american, i believe all over the world there are places we have a -- for this. they don't want to invest. they can help our economies all over the world instead of having them dispersed in places where we don't want them to be. they are shipping them everywhere, taking jobs like everybody says. we are not industrializing -- not re-industrializing. also, if trump wanted to build a wall, give him the cement. he can put it as high as he wants. . all of the republicans get together and build that wall with blood their stuff. i have said too much. i hope we can get together and

give people the opportunities to make their voice worthwhile. host: here is twitter, "getting the cost of everything under control" is what he says should be the top priority of the biden administration. paul in fort lauderdale, florida. caller: i think the central question of america today is wide do we spend so much money and when we are done spending the money we end up exactly where we were before we started spending the money? why do we spend so much money on welfare when after we spent all of that money, we have as many or more people dependent on welfare? for example, a single mother

with children, god bless them. i am sure they love their children and doing the best they can. we spend a lot of money on welfare and a lot of it is single mothers. why don't we do some non-budget things to stop fatherless households and unwanted earth's? desk unwanted -- and unwanted births. i don't hear anyone talking about that but it is a major problem. host: how much of the federal budget you believe goes to child care and welfare, food steps -- food stamps versus other parts of the budget? caller: i don't know an exact number but i can tell you for sure we have spent trillions on it, without a doubt.

trillions and we end up exactly where we were. we are same today or worse from when we started welfare. somebody show me that is different. we don't solve any problems. we end up with the same problem before we started spending the money. the same is true for a lot of things. nobody talks about the morning after pill for venting unwanted births. not a word. host: understood your point. bill in delaware, independent. good morning. caller: good morning, everybody. i hope [indiscernible] he promised social security people he would help them out. what did he do? he made a big deal, 5.9% and most people only got $57 and now

they have to raise medicare. isn't that real nice? he is worried about these people coming in with immigration, putting them on hotels. but they -- host: what has it been like with higher prices and not seeing that social security increase? caller: it is terrible. food is going up. you go to grocery stores, they are getting out of hand. host: what are you cutting back on? caller: got to cut back on everything. i went out of the house a week ago to -- cannot afford gas. eggs are in a shortage.

host: the president yesterday addressing the high cost of food and energy. here is what he had to say in new hampshire. [video clip] pres. biden: the second big reason for inflation is vladimir putin. putin's invasion of ukraine has driven up gas prices and food prices all across the world. two major bread baskets in the world are ukraine and russia. the u.s. is number three and canada number four. we saw efficient data. last month, 70% of the increase in inflation was a consequence of putin's price hike because of the impact of gas prices. i am doing every thing i can to bring down the price to address the price hike. that is why i'm authorizing the release of one million barrels per day from our petroleum reserve.

in the press is always asking me why i am always on the phone talking with other world leaders, trying to keep them organized. one thing i did was get other countries to agree to release petroleum from their oil reserves. we work with u.s. oil producers to ramp up production. we coordinated this release with partners and allies around the world. 30 other countries agreed to $60 million -- to 60 million extra barrels on the market. now we have 240 million barrels a day for the next six months, the largest collective reserve release and history. the nations are coming together to defeat putin and help american families and families in europe and around the world. there is more than needs to be done. america should see the savings. the savings are starting. host: as an abide in yesterday.

today, met romney rights in the opinion pages of the wall street journal, "abide in's errors -- biden's evers worsen inflation." to decrease dependency on foreign products like rare earth metals, pharmaceuticals, the u.s. needs to pare down regulations throughout the economy. excess regulations in heed businesses for producing and delay workers from entering workforce. we should focus on accelerating the supply of agricultural inputs, including minerals for batteries and integrated circuits. the administration can open federal lands and mining and processing facilities on a fast-track. it can take 10 years to get a permit to open the mind. the u.s. should increase the domestic supply of oil and gas, stop lather about oil companies having sufficient resources for drilling.

they cannot drill without permits. building new pipelines for oil and gas throughout the country remains critical. the administration must eliminate bottlenecks at existing ports and build new inland ports. he writes it is critical for congress to pass a budget that actually reduces the deficit. senator from utah, met romney writing in the wall street journal. in north carolina, republican, what is your top issue at home for this president? caller: immigration. immigration is homeland security to me. what i see is that the foreign nationals are coming to this country to overthrow the country . in particular, the latinos and

the native american people. we cannot forget what happened to them, returning back. it beholds me that the u.s. government are letting these people into this country, just crossing the borders and think they are coming here to do innocent work. it is not happening. they are going to help other countries overthrow this country. i don't understand what the government is thinking. host: where do you read or what you hear -- what is the evidence that that is the agenda for immigration? caller: you look at history. if you know the history of america and what happened in history, you would see.

they feel that this is their country and they are coming to take it back. it is not for good reason. let's wake up, people. host: mark in st. charles, missouri. domestic priority for resident biden. -- for president biden. caller:'s biggest priority would have to be immigration. on the southern border, it is unbelievable. president biden -- who i do not think it's all mentally there, i don't even think he is running the country. when i watch what is going on on the different news cycles, we have hundreds of thousands, millions of immigrants, people coming over our borders illegally. they are wide open. i have heard reports that they are allowing in terrorists getting by.

not to mention the ones that might have gotten away. the immigrants are overwhelming our society, our towns, our cities our schools, all of our government programs that we have. it is unbelievable that they are just allowed to come in to our country. i don't understand it. may all caps -- ella hundred mayorkas -- ella hundred mayorkas -- is lying to the american people. kamala harris, who was appointed the borders are, where has she been? she is totally absent from this completely. there is no security whatsoever down there.

this really is overwhelming our country. until we get a hold of our borders and watching who is coming in, our president and government is putting every american at risk. the number one priority, the number one think the government should be doing is protecting the people. host: michael in new kensington, pennsylvania. republican. caller: yes, thank you for taking my call. i have to echo the last caller. i think it is definitely immigration. immigration is such a huge problem. the border which is still at open that anyone can come over, including people caring internal and other drug prevent via and products that are hurting our youth every day. it is unconscionable that this

border is still left open. this is not immigration, this is uncontrolled orders -- uncontrolled borders. we are so worried about ukraine's borders that we won't protect our border. the curse will only magna i -- will only magnify by 10. president biden -- 42 is the name of the bill which will laydown restrictions for the border. you will see a flood gate of immigrants. you might as well not have border control. this is huge. host: matt in mount eric, maryland. caller: there is a quick way to solve this which is make it where if you are born here you don't get citizenship aaron

teach. if you immigrate here, your kids are not guaranteed citizenship. people are coming here to get social services to work for free. i work with a ton of immigrants. lots of them are republicans. you will see some hard-core policies. ask the immigrants what to do. they are hard-core republicans. the main issue today that everybody needs to address is corruption. all of these people, republicans and democrats, are making insane amounts of money on policies, building walls, this hotel stuff. it is free money going everywhere. these people in power and in control are loving that free money. they cannot get enough of it. you have to address the corruption. the trump family was clearly corrupt.

people were coming in and buying out the hotel. there are issues of corruption in republicans and issues of corruption with hunter biden. nancy pelosi is worth $200 billion and she makes $200,000 a year. that does not make sense. they are making policies and stealing our numbers -- and stealing our money. host: matt says the government is his top domestic priority for the biden administration. that is our conversation in our first hour. we will return to it later in the program. keep dialing in. you can text us, post on facebook, send a tweet with the handle @cspanwj. we read to you earlier a politico headline that the biden administration's staff is emphasizing the domestic agenda because the midterm elections are around the number and the president's poll numbers are low

and there is an emphasis with ukraine nominating the headlines. on fox news sunday, kevin mccarthy was asked about the gop's chances in the midterms and why biden's approval numbers are so low. [video clip] >> is there a chance republicans are overconfident this year? >> we are not overconfident. why is the president's approval numbers so low? it is the wasteful, irresponsible spending that has led to higher prices and inflation. it is the irresponsible actions of this president along the border that has led to an immigration and fentanyl crisis. it is the policies of this president -- of this administration that has led to dangerous streets, ineffective schools. that has got to stop. what americans want and need and deserve is a clear common sense alternative and that is what is

happening with house republicans. we will provide to the public a commitment to america, one that can stop runaway spending. we are able to become energy independent, not dependent on russia, and lower the price of few will. gush of fuel -- lower the price of fuel. we will secure our border to stop this immigration crisis. more importantly, to stop the fentanyl coming into america. we found fentanyl is the number one cause of deaths for americans between 18 and 45. that is not because americans are taking more drugs, they are taking less. it is more dangerous what is coming across this border. that is why the president's approval ratings are so low and that is what will make a new course. host: kevin mccarthy of california, the republican leader of the house. we are asking you to tell

decision-makers in washington what should be the domestic by already. shelby in albany, georgia. caller: good morning. it is good to see you again. happy spring. america, we are facing right now a major concern for us as a country. it is whether or not we are going to continue to be a united states or are we going to go down this road of polarization. you had four callers prior to me coming on that talked about immigration. we are a nation of immigrants. we consider ourselves a country that welcomed the world. we are involved in international relations that create a

relationship to other countries. i am not sure why it is that that is -- primarily from places like raleigh, north carolina. they are not a border state. pennsylvania or wherever it was, it is not a border state and somehow that is the context. my major focus is about the future of america, that is the priority, and whether or not baby boomers which i am part of, myself, is going to have the responsibility and personal stake in assuring the next generation -- we are a country that created for the development, it when development , a cultural gap, a contrast of needs and attitudes that i here this morning -- i hear this mo

rning. one word will not describe the generational need. the agent right now where we are intensifying the modernization of a technological, aspirational world that includes a multicultural society whereby we had the changing and the mismatch of this. federal policies that reduced immigration, if we want to talk about immigration, that constrained from 1920 -- 1920 until 1965. we have a birthright amendment. mitt romney, utah has like 3 million people. what is this about? it is about the same industries of the past. utah is a 3 million proposition

state. host: i understood the points you were getting at. we need to get in some of the voices. anne since this text, " republicans only have three things, fear, fraud, and fascism." this is from john, "as biden bungles his way into world war iii, we need to harden america's domestic defense." olga in silver spring's. republican. caller: can you hear me? host: yes. go ahead. caller: i heard other callers talking about immigration. there is a difference between immigration and illegal immigration. i think the government needs to focus on illegal immigration. i am an immigrant myself.

i came here legally. i went through paperwork and paid a lot of money to become legal. what is going on right now is mind-boggling. i think there needs to be a lot of checks and balances on the government level so people who are coming here need to go through the system. when you have people come in illegally and applying for different benefits, food stamps, that money is going to cover those illegals. they should not benefits. remember when there was something in the system, green cards were only given to the people who wait and be here in

the country five years. right now, we have a lot of situations where you have illegal immigration. people are coming to the order desk to the border -- to the border. there needs to be more checks and balances at the government level. we need to figure out how we distribute benefits and the financial system to those not able to receive benefits. host: rich in hickory hills, illinois. what do say? -- what do you say? caller: i think the president is trying to do the right thing which is trying to bring us all together. these are tough issues. you heard all of your commenters

this morning talking about particular issues. but it is trying to get a united front to deal with all of these issues. i was looking at 26 senators try to deal with -- it is a united front. they have to do it, it has to be everybody working towards the same problems instead of my side is better than your side, that stuff that is divisive that does not help to resolve the problems. i think biden is trying to do that. i don't think people are on board with what is the problem, what is the solution, how do we get together with what our society and our government is supposed to be about. throwing all of it together and coming up with the best possible solutions to go forward. it takes a united effort. the divisive stuff just keeps the problems going. it does not resolve our issues.

in fact, it makes them worse. i think that is what he is supposed to be trying to do. whether he can do it or not, whether people are going to be realizing we can all work together, it is not right. if we have these politicians that are crooks and criminals, prosecuted them and put them in jail. address that issue. biden's son has this crooked deal going on, charge him and prosecute him. host: as we said at the top, political reporting and other outlets reporting this administration is trying to refocus on domestic issues as the conflict in ukraine continues to dominate the global headlines. i want to share one of them with you. this is from the wall street journal. the number of refugees hits nearly 5 million. one in four of populace abandon

their homes. 13 million are trapped. that is inside the wall street journal this morning. on the domestic front which is the focus of our conversation this morning, the hill newspaper is reporting democrats are preparing to take a second run at biden's spending plan. top democrats are eyeing a revival of his stalled out tax and spending bill as the party tries to deliver to voters heading into in november election where they are facing tough political headwinds. the hopes of revising -- of reviving build back better comes after joe manchin deep-sixed the bill last year. since then, they have struggled with how to revive the issue with political oxygen focused on the supreme court vacancy and the invasion of ukraine.

during events at american university yesterday, a democrat of new york and parts of the leadership of the party in the house was asked what's the party is going to do for voters before the midterm elections. [video clip] >> what is the message and narrative you think democrats should be amplifying to make sure voters are motivated to vote in the midterms and help democrats maintain geordie control in congress -- maintain majority control in congress? >> thank you for that observation. we have to both govern and message. from a messaging standpoint, we have spent a lot of time governing to get stuff done for everyday americans. we have to sharpen the way in which we communicate with everyday americans, do it in a clear and concise passion -- in

a courier -- in a clear and concise fashion. you have two alternatives here, you have democrats with one vision for america and a track record and republicans, every different vision and track record. democrats care about everyday americans, they don't. we get stuff done for everyday americans, they don't. we make life better for everyday americans, they don't. they had any opportunity to govern, they gave us a gop tax scam, benefits going to the wealthiest 1%. they had any opportunity to govern, we passed the american rescue plan. host: hakeem jeffries, democrat of new york at an american

university event. we are asking you your top domestic priorities for the biden administration. john in new york, we will go to you. go ahead, john. caller: i am on the east end of long island where all of the latinos come to work for the summer. one day i went to the bank and i had 21 bags, industrial sized bags filled with money orders. i checked every bag and i cannot find one money order that was under $600. all of this money was going south of mexico -- going south, to mexico and brazil. that is how they afforded to go appear.

they are working up here to send money down there to come up here. you cannot do any traveling without money. host: millard in pennsylvania, democratic caller. caller: i would like to make a comment. the american people are sleeping. how can you want to put people back in office, fever publicans, who tried to overthrow the government of the united states of america. you come out like you have done something but you have not done anything but try to destroy the things people died to build in this country and you want to put them back in the office. republicans, they don't want you to vote and do certain things. a woman does not have a right to choose. they build a smoke screen and you go along with it.

that should be something to wake your mind up that these people don't care about you. they are just there to get power. host: ray in alabama, independent. good morning. caller: the top priority for the administration needs to be reparations. reparations now, reparations tomorrow, and reparations forever. host: kathy in delaware, republican. caller: hi. you spoke about immigration, supply chains, and so on. what concerns me is the perceived or actual corruption in this government. durham is finding more and more

evidence that is detrimental to me to the democrat party as they were responsible for the infractions which are federal against donald trump. if we are going to continue to clean up the swamp, we have to start with mid terms. if you are going to get anywhere with the fbi collusion, whatever the charges are, we need to do that. we need to see that this is not healthy for our country. it is democrats that are continuing to be dishonest and disingenuous. -- in terms of the law.

dr. prachi -- dr. fauci lies every time he gets in front of the cameras. host: chicago, connie is watching there. a democratic caller. caller: thank you for taking my call. i wanted to point out the gallup polls. i saw that when you posted it and i looked at all of the line items and the priorities of the people polled and i often wonder who they are talking to. i have never heard gallup or reuters or any of those other polling immigrations -- polling organizations call me. in regards to the president's domestic priorities -- i have listened to this show for a

solid hour. no one has talked about voter suppression. all of these draconian prohibited laws at the state level, eradicating secretaries of state, eradicating people who do the actual count of vote unless it is some republican they want in there. then you have republicans calling in about corruption and lies and they voted in a man who had documented 40,000 lies while he was in office. host: we believe that there. your priority is voting rights. willie in mississippi. democratic caller. caller: when it comes to voting rights, all i can say is history.

the republican party from the civil war on did nothing for us. they left our cities to be burned, our people to be killed. they did not give us nothing to hold onto. [indiscernible] we were the ones who changed the democratic right. -- the democratic party. we went in there after years and the republican did not like us. they did not like us as a member of their party. my granddad was a republican. he believed in the republican party until all of a sudden they

turned on us. politicians actually said that black people were not ready for democracy. when is somebody going to be enough -- beat on you enough that you know that they are not for you? host: we will have to leave it at that point. we will take a break. when we come back, we turn our attention to cryptocurrency. matthew pines from the bitcoin policy institute will join to talk about president biden's recent executive order regarding bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. later, adam minsky, a student loan attorney and forbes contributor will talk about student debt and student loan forgiveness and repayment programs. we will be right back. ♪

>> all this month, watch the top 21 winning videos from our c-span studentcam video documentary competition, every morning between -- before c-span's "washington journal," we document one of our studentcam winners and you can watch all the winning studentcam documentaries anytime, online at studentcam.org. >> c-spanshop.org is c-span's online store. browse products, apparel, books, home decor and accessories. there is something for every c-span fan and every purchase help support our nonprofit operation. shop online anytime at c-spanshop.org. >> american history tv, saturdays on c-span guest: -- on

c-span2. tuesday, the final episode of our eight part series, first ladies in their own words. we will look at the role of the first lady, their time of the white house in the issues important to them in their own words. this week will feature melania trump. >> i'm very excited. thank you in advance for sharing your stories and your thoughts about your struggles and challenges. i want to help children everywhere be their best, so we can achieve positive results. >> a discussion about hollywood's take on history with creator of historians at the movie, jason herbert and kristi coleman. exploring the american story, watch american history tv, saturday on c-span2, and find a

full schedule on your program guide and war -- guide or watch online at c-span.org/history. >> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us this morning is matthew pines. he is with the bitcoin policy institute. our conversation this morning is about cryptocurrency. it is one of those topics that people have seen a lot in the newspapers and maybe there are some people out there who are investing in this and have this type of currency, but there are many also who have not. when you say bitcoin, what does that mean? guest: we will keep it simple. bitcoin is a form of money just like money you have in your bank. it is a novel form of money that was made possible by a certain technology breakthrough into thousand nine. an anonymous coder made a

software platform called bitcoin. what you think of as money is just a letter. you have a certain number that the bank says is your money and that is your ledger and this is the liability the bank owes you and they have assets on the other set of that ledger that balances the books and that is what money is in our system. different sides of a book that some but he maintains. the current system of money we have is centralized by ledgers, banks, central banks. bitcoin is basically the same idea but decentralized ledgers. anywhere on the world can broaden their own copy of the lock chain which is just a copy of who owes and owns what bitcoin. that ledger is shared around the world and movements from one person to another are tracked by everyone's copy of the ledger. in a sense it is a form of accounting technology that uses the fact we can use decentralized computing and have things like the internet to

secure that form of decentralized money that was not possible before. it has bootstrapped itself over the past few years and is now a $1 trillion asset that people have value in and out of the initial innovation has been a proliferation of copies and innovations on top of it but that sort of core foundational information as a different type of accounting made possible by the internet. host: is it something physical that you can hold in your hand and exchange like a dollar bill? guest: no, it is not a physical asset but it can be held by individuals and you have a special key that only unlocks your bitcoin and you can protect that key with a physical device and if you are the only person in possession, you are the only one who can spend it all step in a sense it can be considered a physical bearer asset if you have that key on a device and

that is the only copy, you're the only one who can unlock that bitcoin. most money is not physical. since 1971, most of it is a ledger, a copy in some digital record maintained by banks and central banks. it is just changing ledger entries in a server. host: who or what determines the value of a bitcoin? guest: everyone who determines the value of anything. all value is inherently human and subjective. we go out into the world and we have different desires and we try to get what we want, and so we value different things in different ways. we value lots of things beyond their pure utility. there are certain things you value because they perform a function for you. a key part of what makes bitcoin valuable is the fact that you

believe other people will continue to believe that bitcoin is valuable and that is how all money systems work. they all work on faith. the u.s. dollar is predicated on the fact that we trust the u.s. government to enact global fiscal policy that will continue to keep it a global superpower and our belief in that future of reliability of that system is what underpins the trust in the dollars we exchange day-to-day. host: is that the appeal? you have seen trust in government decline over decades. guest: when it got started, comes from multiple decades of cyberpunk development of cooked or graphic technologies to try and preserve individual liberty, privacy, that was the genesis and the synonymous creator

launched it in the wake of the financial crisis and it was very clear when he launched it he was doing so out of a sense of distrust in the stability in the financial system long term, so he wanted to put up this potential alternative that was completely theoretical at the time, to give people an option to exchange value and hold value outside the traditional financial system in a peer-to-peer manner in keeping with that legacy of peer to peer beginnings of the internet and today, you can imagine a portion of it does come with value that results from folks who want to have some form of money that is outside the u.s. financial system. host: how many americans have cryptocurrency? guest: the executive order the president just released put an end -- put in a number around 40 million. that has grown dramatically in the past two years host: we want

to invite our viewers to join in on this conversation. we want you to call in and tell us your experience with cryptocurrency. your number is (202)-748-8002. otherwise, regional lines. eastern and central, (202)-748-8000. mountain and pacific, (202)-748-8001. matthew pines is here, to take your questions and comments about this industry, cryptocurrency. what is your expertise in this? guest: i am a layperson who is really interesting -- really interested in this. i've been working to advise the government on preparing for certain scenarios. i have been a consultant who has an analysis of the different bad things that can happen to the country and i have done risk analysis and political assessments of emerging technology and i had a side interest in bitcoin and i felt there was in the past two years,

we have seen it become more relevant, a bridge between my professional background and expertise supplying the sort of forecasting scenario and that is what we are trying to do. essentially bitcoin is a trillion dollar asset. even if you ascribe a very low, ability, that would be a strategic and sick of a get impact on the world system. you would want to analyze the what-if scenario and i have done work for the government, looking at low likelihood high consequence scenarios. you want to look at what those consequences would be before you confront them and i just don't think that is happening right now. maybe it is happening now with the executive order but not the stages level -- not the strategic level. -- raise that question, what is

our long-term plan? what is our approach to this? if bitcoin continues on this trajectory, -- eight years by the end of the decade, but what is our plan or approach? host: we have to hear, what are the what-ifs? guest: i've spent 10 years doing a lot of work for the department of homeland security, fema, the white house national security council, typical things we confront all the time like hurricanes and earthquakes and what is our disaster preparedness, but you also have terrorist events, up to large-scale scabbard -- large-scale cyber war and the very bad scenarios. my job is doing that analysis for the government and trying to attend if i lessons for preparedness.

bitcoin is emerging as a new form of outside money, money that is not necessarily the liability of an institution or government. gold is historically the best form of outside money all stop you can hold it in a vault and if you control the vault, it is your money. nobody can flip the off switch on your gold. in the context of things like the russia central bank sanctions, raising this idea of what are the inherent counterparty risks associated with money that is a liability? as the world turns more toward being fractured geopolitically, people are looking at alternatives to hedge their bets. what is the best strategy if country start to look for hedges outside the system? traditionally it has been gold but what if it is bitcoin and what if we happen to hold the majority of bitcoin in the world? that would be a net benefit to us relative to our competitors

in the access of authoritarians who are looking to go back in time to a gold commodity standard and that is the geopolitical challenge facing the world right now, this rising confrontation between east and the west, a system of governance and monetary systems that they will use to underpin that governance predicated on old technologies like gold but also digital currencies that are issued by the state. bitcoin is going to emerge in that context as a neutral alternative that is not in control of a single government but if you wanted to much -- if you want to monetize, that would be to the benefits of the united states. host: what do we know about russia using bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies to get around sanctions? guest: that has been in the news as a possibility but the treasury department has said it is not realistic, and they have not seen much. most of the sanctions you have seen are through offshore

vehicles in the cayman islands and entire armies of industry in the legacy system that help entities route their money through the legacy banking system and that is hard to track. can have shell companies, directors, bohemian entities that are hard to track. the benefit of open block chain is it is difficult to hide your money. every movement of every transaction is public to everyone. i can see on my copy of the ledger every transaction that is made. i don't know who it is unless i have other intelligence but the u.s. government has invested a lot in technology to identify certain actors on the block chain and they have lots of tools to prosecute misbehavior and illicit use of this technology. host: is the u.s. ahead of the game on bitcoin? guest: yes. it is hard to know exactly. the precise ownership. by far we have the most

flourishing bitcoin industries and companies that have gone public but also individuals who own bitcoin, we have some of the highest results. there are some countries around the world that are a little bit higher than us but we stand to gain if bitcoin were to monetize relative to gold. host: sheila in youngstown, ohio. welcome to the conversation. caller: good morning and thank you. i heard it takes a ridiculous amount of energy, to sustain this type of currency. guest: yes. bitcoin uses a proof of work mechanism. essentially that means the rule by which everyone uses to decide what is a valid copy of the ledger, which is how do we maintain trust without trusting a central recordkeeper and the rule is we go to the record that has the most amount of work. do you have a tangible proof

that that transaction is valid? if everyone uses that rule, then it sort of sustains agreement on all movement of bitcoin in the network. that rule is you have to do work, you have to exert competition energy, solving simple math problems trillions of times a second using special harvest computers to win the lottery of a new bitcoin and in the process, validate transactions on the network. it is a core feature of the network that it has to consume energy. the question is, what form of energy is a consuming? not all energy is carbon positive. what we have seen in the past two years is a massive amount of wasted stranded in efficient energy sources that bitcoin minors are drawn to because they need to find the cheapest source of energy. wasted energy is where they want to go. retail energy you pull out of -- into your house is not that profitable to run bitcoin minors.

bitcoin minors are sort of sponges around the world, trying to find negatively priced energy. in texas and oklahoma, they have massive amounts of wind and solar capacity and they will expand it even more. bitcoin minors are flocking to texas and oklahoma, doing deals with wind and solar operators to allow them to monetize that stranded energy. solar has a certain curve where it generates a lot during the day when people are not using it and then at night when people come home and turn on their appliances, they want to consume but the sun is down. you can balance that with batteries but batteries can only store so much and they are expensive at scale. bitcoin minors are emerging to help smooth out that variance. the wind does not blow all the time but when it's blowing and you can't connect to the grid because you built this big wind farm but it will take four or five years before you can connect to the grid, the energy

is going straight to the ground. bitcoin mine operators say we can help you monetize and improve the return on investment. that is now hitting an inflection curve with gigawatts of operation. the other key point is because it is a highly variable load, if you have a warehouse full of these machines, you can sort of turned them up or down on demand. it's not like a steel plant where you have the manufacturing process and you have to turn off for the day or turn it back on. a whole program of grids which incentivizes -- whenever they have either too much load or not enough. what grid operators are finding with bitcoin is it is a unique form of controllable load. they can dial up or down the demand from the bitcoin miners. in texas they have sophisticate

operations where they help the grid stabilize in a certain frequency. texas had this problem during the winter storm and now these bitcoin miners are coming in with a software solution. the grid doesn't care it is bitcoin, they see it as a unique form of controllable load. if we want to meet our net zero objective by 2050, we need to look at the -- we need to essentially -- if we are going to electrify it, we need to bring a huge amount of renewables on the grid. we need to overbuild the wind -- the wind and solar by a large amount. we need it to always be there. that means there will be wild swings on the grid because it is not always blowing wind and it is not always shining brightly. if you integrate this unique controllable load, that gives you the flex ability to be able to overbuild wind and solar and -- the flexibility to be able to

overbuild wind and solar. it sort of underplay's the story about how bitcoin miners in the past year -- it is really incentivizing a lot of innovation in the mining space. energy consumption is a feature of the network but that does not necessarily translate into carbon emissions and there is a big focus on the industry to find more efficient uses of energy but is a -- but it is a valuable use of energy. look at how many servers are being used watch pornography. no one is asking about the carbon emissions of pornography service. bitcoin machines are driving incentive for renewables. it is something to watch and it is dramatically changing the network. there is more research to be

done. it is a topic that we will take a rigorous look at to see what is the data and where are these miners being located and what does the trend look like and have a fact-based informed discussion. host: our next guest in miami, you are next. caller: good morning. i would like to understand the cryptocurrency, bitcoin, and how does it value in the cash world, and can i trade these currencies for cash, or do i have to trade them like bargaining? and i trade a bitcoin for a home? is there a cash value in the cryptocurrency? if so, what is it? guest: bitcoin is by far the most dominant and popular digital asset. there are thousands of others.

i won't go into all the other variations. my focus is bitcoin, because we think that has the most strategic implications. it is a tradable asset. you can buy it on cash cap. it has a dollar price. the basic mechanics are very simple. connect your bank account and you can buy as little as a dollar worth of bitcoin. the u.s. dollar price is roughly $42,000 per bitcoin, but you don't have to buy a whole bitcoin. you can buy fractions. that is what gives it the fungibility associated with monday. you don't have -- with money. you don't have to trade with whole units. host: can you buy things with it? guest: yes. if you think about the three

types of aspects about money, what do people think about when they price something? what is the unit we use to denominate that? if we all agree on a common unit, we can supply our exchange. when you go overseas, you have to convert between different units. the second is that you need -- is as a unit of exchange and the third is a store of value. where do you want to hold your currency to preserve purchasing power? historically the narrative around bitcoin has been mostly as a store of value, like digital gold. there has also been a strong narrative on it as a unit of exchange. there are these circular economies that use it as a unit of exchange. in el salvador, you can use bitcoin like you can use u.s. dollars. there is no trade tax or capital gains tax. it is.

just a medium of exchange because of its volatility -- it is a medium of exchange. historically given its volatility, it is must better associated -- it is much better associated as a store of value. that is part of the long-term view, which we start to see the volatility come down as it gets larger and you can imagine in five or 10 years, it converges to a certain level. once everyone knows it has a certain value and a certain level of uncertainty comes down, and the volatility comes down. ukraine, when they posted on their twitter feed a call for donations using cryptocurrency, they posted a qr code or address and anyone around the world could send money to them. it was up to $60 million or more, worth of capital

currencies. 40% of that, they were able to use in-kind to purchase needed military supplies from suppliers directly. they didn't convert it to u.s. dollars or the ukrainian currency. they used bitcoin and got net vision goggles and bulletproof vests, etc. -- night vision goggles and bulletproof vests etc. that is the trend. it is not universally that way but that is where it is going. host: alex in annapolis. you own some cryptocurrency? which one? caller: that is correct. i own bitcoin, if you read him and -- ethereum, and several others. host: have you seen the value go up? caller: and down.

i have made a bunch of money and lost it. i'm sitting around zero currently. host: do you have a question or comment? caller: i wanted you to comment on bitcoin's overall monopoly of cap the currency. a lot of them are barely known to the general public. [inaudible] guest: this has been the question since bitcoin got started, is will there be a competitor to bitcoin? in my opinion -- i have no special insight, but i think it

is exceedingly unlikely. there are special properties with bitcoin being the first that gives an anchor but also a hard network effect. i don't believe bitcoin will be unseated. i think there will be a bifurcation of the market. we have seen bitcoin as the reserve neutral sort of core asset. taking on asset -- aspects that are beyond the cryptocurrency world. you will also see the proliferation of lots of innovation and competition and i think the regulators are going to have a view coming out in the near term, bitcoin viewed as a commodity and readily did as such. these other crypto assets are more ambiguous. it is hard to know where that will come down and whether these will be readily did as conceived -- as currencies or be subject to certain disclosures.

the core principle of what distinguishes gupta currencies, in my view, is is there a single point of failure? is there in a corporation or foundation or group of founders who have special initial interest in it? that is some of the merited crypt us is debt criticism of the cup to currency world is that because it is so new, it attracts so much interest that it can be vulnerable to fraud and manipulation. you have individuals use marketing budgets to sell some flashy new cryptocurrency, get people to buy in but not disclose the fact they hold a large amount of it when it was extremely cheap or even no-cost and then they sort of dump on retail and essentially generate some ethical friction. bitcoin, there is no centralized foundation, there is no special group of people that have privileges or protocols.

that will give bitcoin a unique place, and the rest of the market regulators will sort everything else out. host: the president signed an executive order ensuring responsible development of digital assets. what will it do? guest: it will do a lot, but mostly generate reports in the near term. it will set an important precedent and framework for how the federal government thinks about this industry. that itself is a milestone. it is quite an extensive exec in order. what it doesn't do is make any special rules or change the status quo in any way. summing ticket orders make policy but this one just calls for studies. it calls on -- it instructs 20 different agencies across the federal government to examine things like energy use, use in sanctions or illicit finance, consumer protection and also

coordination across the world because crypto assets are global , they don't recognize borders. the u.s. government is belatedly getting their arms around this and trying to get smart which is a net positive. those reports will be coming out in the next three to six months, and i think they will be revealing and indicative of how our government is thinking about these issues, but that would be the starting gun for a lot of work on congress. there is legislation in the works to sort of establish a framework for crypto assets and that will help establish consistency and a common level playing field for the industry as a whole. you will see quite a lot of movement on the wreck of the tory policy front. -- on the regulatory front. stable coins are just cryptocurrencies that are pegged to a certain asset and most are

pegged to the dollar. it is a digital form of the dollar that has its value pegged to the u.s. dollar. that is probably priority number one for regulators because historically, the development of the dollars that are outside of the readily did system has been a source of concern for the federal reserve. looking at the full history of the 20th century, there are dollars that are offshore, loaned into existence by offshore banks. european banks can denominate a loan in dollars and create dollars. they are lent into existence and banks around the world can lend dollars into existence. that has generated problems in the past. this is essentially a new form of that. these are crypto synthetic dollars that can be created outside of legacy banking systems and can be used as a medium of exchange. that is a particular area of

focus for regulators. the real question is what backs those stable coins? just like a market money -- money market fund has to hold a high quality liquid asset, you could see a regime to mystically wear certain stable coin issuers are required to hold certain forms of assets considered safe, which going back to the national security perspective, if stable coins and road -- grow dramatically, that is a huge win for the u.s. treasury. if there is a way the u.s. government can find a captive buyer of its debt in a world where there is not as much external demand for debt anymore, that is going to be something that they take a close look at. that is something you will see in the u.s. at least, as they try to get their arms around stable coin and regulate stable coins. the big fight is between to what extent do they have a banking charter or integrate or do they have to give j.p. morgan the

prerogative or allow for a more open competition? host: a tweet from a viewer who wants to know, do people pay taxes on bitcoin profits and how does the government know? guest: it is taxed in short-term and long-term capital gains any other equity you may trade. depending what service you use, like robin hood or cash app or coin base, when you sign-up up, you register with your name. you have to go through the same ranking checks that banks do. they generate reports for you like your brokerage account that says here is your statement, your gains or losses, they give you your tax forms and you should respond to the irs, like you respond with all of your other capital gains.

it is really taxed no differently. there are nuances associated with the broader crypto world. there is more complicated forms of exchange that are not considered trading but they are more ambiguous. these new protocols that have different types of transactions, that the legacy laws don't explicitly demarcate. bitcoin is pretty simple as a trading commodity. host: we will hear from tom in harrisburg. thanks for hanging on the line. caller: thank you very much. my question is, when i do stocks, i can buy transportation and computer stocks. what i'm finding is if i buy

bitcoin and then ethereum, it seems like when one goes down, they all go down. is there any way to diversify? guest: i am not able to give advice and i am not a traitor. i just buy bitcoin and i buy it every day in small amounts and i don't even look at the price and in five or 10 years, i will wake up and see where it is. i am not trying to become a professional crypto traitor. it is not my intellectual interest and i don't have a special advantage in that world. the aspects that you mentioned our issues when you have a relatively small market. these things can be highly correlated. given that bitcoin is such an

outsized aspect of the market, most of the other tokens typically trade directly in line with how bitcoin trades. it is just the structure of the market. i don't trade, i try not to follow the day-to-day stuff and i try to look more at the strategic policy implications. host: headline of the wall street journal, bitcoin stocks perform worse than currencies. what is going on? it looks like coin base is off 40% so far this year. these are the companies that are facilitating it but not the actual currency. guest: the old slogan for the gold rush was sell shovels. some businesses have cropped up, large businesses, to facilitate trading and their business model is trading. it doesn't necessarily correlate with the price of bitcoin but it very much is highly cyclical. if people get excited and they

come into this exchanges and they want to trade a lot and then the price crashes which it does all the time and they get burned and they leave and they have to wait for the next cycle to generate revenue. those types of stocks are highly volatile and i would not read too much into that. bitcoin specifically, they have a pretty sort of -- there are a number of charts you can look at but it has a remarkable trajectory. chart the number of people holding less than one bitcoin and it is an extremely steady chart, even throughout the crazy volatility, crashes, runaway spikes, all the way down but that sort of steady line of accumulation, of smaller more retail, people who just hold it for the long term has been on a steady increase. is that going to set the floor of adoption and then there is a collation of wild swings, up and

down that make it a bargain. host: our next caller from maryland, you own some cryptocurrency? caller: yes i do. host: what has it been like? caller: i've been trading with cryptocurrency and i have seen a lot of correlation between the volatility. the valuation and policies that a large number of countries in and the u.s. in particular have placed on cryptocurrencies including bitcoin, there is something you could say -- is there something you could say about this connection between the u.s. policies? i know there are some prisoner doves in congress and states like california that are trying to create policies to control the growth of bitcoin and the proliferation of it and this is something that i've been quite interested in, just watching play out, bitcoin or crypto

versus dollar situation. guest: bitcoin is not necessarily a competitor for the dollar. it is mostly a supplement to the u.s. treasury security as a reserve asset for the world, especially as the treasury becomes less in demand. i would say if some folks think bitcoin is competing against the u.s. dollar, it really isn't. if we hold a lot more bitcoin relative to our competitors, it can help shore up our national balance sheet and helped re-instill confidence in our overall economic system. i just wanted to put that out there. you talk about the market clarity, that has been the dominant narrative around bitcoin. it is a very volatile asset and subject to uncertainty.

you are seeing that hit in the past year or so but you are seeing at the state and local level, sort of pro-bitcoin policies that are filtering up to the federal level and what is taking place -- are really working on a common framework for digital assets that i think will establish certainty for the market and that would be a net good thing. being able to plan for the future and make long-term capital investments, this is a major industry. there are tens of billions of dollars flooding in from legacy institutions, wall street, and they want to know what is the future of bitcoin going to be? to the extent we get more policy clarity, the better. host: could you see people flocking to this, if we are

heading toward a recession? if there was a run on banks or something that we saw in the great recession or a previous recession? guest: one thing i'm focused on is the u.s. treasury market itself, which we have a lot of debt. we have to run a lot of debt to keep the u.s. dollar -- we have to run a persistent trade deficit with partners like china. what they used to do was recycle those dollars into our debt. instead they are taking those dollars and re-lending them to secure hard assets. if you look at what underpins the global dollar system and what will underpin the financial system is the u.s. treasury market. it is like funding collateral for trillions of dollars of derivatives around the world. what you are seeing coming out of the russia sanctions and the economic impact on the commodities market is a lot of

instability in the global economic system. high inflation, supply shortages and western governments have a lot of debt. if we hit a recession, that has a potential negative feedback loop that could destabilize the treasury market. i won't go too deep into how that would work. but what i worry about is essentially instability in the treasury market. we saw a little of that in march of 2020 at the height of the pandemic and the treasury had to step in with a whole suite of -- to restore order to the treasury market and in the process they dramatically expanded the balance sheet by trillions of dollars. we could see something similar if we run into another crisis like that, where right now the fed is talking about quantitative tightening, reducing the balance sheet and trying to control inflation, but if we hit a recession while also facing high inflation, if that leads to instability in the treasury market, that could force a new emergency liquidity

response by the federal reserve to dramatically expand the balance sheet which is in a sense bad for the dollar, that is what gives you -- people call it money printing but it is a little more complicated but that is essentially -- if you look at quantitative easing, that is highly call it into the price of bitcoin, as an outside money hedge against instability in the u.s. treasury market dollar system. it is something i'm concerned about. we do not want a recession. we do not want the fed to have to open up these emergency liquidity facilities. even if bitcoin would benefit, i think it would be better if we instead had a steady flow, a broad adoption of bitcoin and do it in a way that supports the u.s. national interest and our economy. nobody wants a crisis that leads to disorder. host: roberta in houston -- roberto in houston, texas.

caller: this is complete lean new to me, so i have some questions. right now you go to the dollar store, it is $1.25, 25% inflation. can inflation affect the value of bitcoin? you by bitcoin every day but the value changes every day. how are you going to -- your cost basis since every day it is changing. can a government corner the market? my last question, don't you think the criminal element would be attracted to this type of currency? guest: last question first,

there have been reports put out on the use of crypto in illicit finance and the most recent report for 321 by the company chain analysis whose software is used by law enforcement around the world identified about .15% in the volume of all caps off transactions associated with illicit finance. -- volume of all crypto transactions associated with illicit finance. it is a concern and a priority of law enforcement, but they do have tools to help them track down and prosecute misbehavior. i don't get mad at bitcoin for those bad actors just like i don't get mad at the dollar for mexican drug cartels laundering millions of dollars of cash in the u.s. banking system. i get mad at the bad guys. there are tools to help mitigate that, but it is at an all-time

low. your first question was dollar cost averaging. essentially what you do with your retirement account, you get a paycheck and you deposit a certain amount if you have a 401(k) or employee match or you just deposit it. that is my approach for bitcoin, to just sort of take a small amount and deposit on a regular basis. your cost basis is determined at every purchase. i believe your middle question was -- host: can a government corner the market? guest: that is the unique feature of -- of bitcoin related to other cryptocurrencies. other currencies have a proof of steak cut -- proof of stake concept. people who have a lot of dollars

try to write the rules of the dollar system and that is a source of political corruption that people decry. proof of work is a very different system. the idea is you have to do work, you have to have special machines hooked up to cheap power in order to participate in the network and you would need 51% or more of all special-purpose computers in the world competing to try and change the ledger. it is called the 51% attack and a lot of analysis written on this. it would cost upwards of $40 billion worth of equipment right now just to buy the equipment but those machines have a four or five year backlog so even if you wanted to, you would not be able to acquire the machines to execute that attack. there was a worry early in the days of bitcoin when all of the miners were in china. there were worries that china could track down and take over the network and crush it.

china last year kicked them all out and they essentially spread to the world and there was a dramatic effect on the amount of commuting -- computing power dedicated to the network. it fell by almost half. the price had an impact but in about six months, the hash rate recovered and all of those miners relocated around the world. it disbursed the network. it became more decentralized. in the noted states -- theoretically, could you imagine some future scenario in a number of years where there is so much mining machines all constituted in one location, that would be a vulnerability. there are inherent incentives in the network to find cheap energy, and energy is around the world not being used. hydropower that is not near a city, you can just put the

miners where the energy is. you don't want to run them in a city, you want to run them where the energy is the cheapest. that sort of spreads the mining around and makes it much more difficult to pull it all -- put it all in one location and to control. host: one last question he had, inflation impacts on bitcoin. guest: people have thought about bitcoin as an inflation hedge. it does not correlate with every cpi thread that comes out but if you look at what has happened since march of 2020 when the fed had to embark on these massive expansionary monetary policies, that doubled, tripled, quadrupled. it priced in the inflation we are seeing now well before we saw it. host: matthew pines, thank you very much for the conversation this morning. guest: it is a complicated topic. i encourage folks to read and only bind to the level of your understanding -- only buy to

the level of your understanding. host: we will take a break. still ahead on "washington journal," adam minsky discusses student loan debt, potential changes to loan forgiveness and repayment programs. before we get to the conversation, we will return to the question we asked you earlier, what is the top to mess to priority for the biden administration? start dialing -- top domestic priority for the widening administration -- biden administration? start dialing in. ♪ >> look tv, every -- book tv, every sunday on c-span3. at 2:00 p.m. eastern, we will feature the annapolis book festival with jamie raskin, with his book, unthinkable: trauma, truth and the trial of american

democracy, and susan page with her book, madame speaker: nancy pelosi and the lessons of power. at 10 of 5 p.m. on afterwards, greg bluestein talks about his book on georgia turning purple during the 2020 presidential election, and its significance in future state and national elections. he is interviewed by national political reporter eugene scott. watch book tv every sunday on c-span2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at booktv.org. ♪ >> first ladies in their own words. our eight part series looking at the role of the first lady, their time in the white house and the issues important to them. >> it was a great advantage to know what it was like in school because education is such an

important issue, both for a governor but also for president. that was very helpful to me. >> using materials from c-span's or award-winning biography series, first ladies. >> i'm very much the kind of person who believes you should say what you mean and mean what you say and take the consequences. >> and c-span's online video library. we will feature lady bird johnson, betty ford, nancy reagan, hillary clinton, laura bush, michelle obama and melania trump. watch first ladies in their own words, saturdays at 2:00 p.m. eastern on american history tv on c-span2, or listen to the series is a podcast on the c-span now free mobile app, or wherever you get your podcasts. >> at least six presidents

recorded conversations while in office. hear many of those conversations on c-span's new podcast, presidential recordings. >> season one focuses on lyndon johnson. you will hear about the 19 sick to four civil rights act, president of campaign, the gulf of tonkin incident, the march on selma and the war in vietnam. not everyone knew they were being recorded. >> certainly johnson's secretaries knew because they were tasked with transcribing many of those conversations. in fact they were the ones who made sure the conversations were taped as johnson would signal to them, through an open door between his office and there's. >> you will also hear some blunt talk. >> i want a report of the number of people assigned to kennedy and the number assigned to me now and if mine are not less i want them less right quick. if i can't go to the bathroom, i won't go. i promise i won't go anywhere.

>> presidential recordings, listen on the c-span now mobile app or wherever you get your podcasts. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are back this morning with the top domestic priority for the biden administration. that is our conversation with all of you for about 25 minutes or so. as president biden and the white house tries to focus the attention on domestic issues and his agenda because the midterms are right around the corner and because ukraine complex have dominated the headlines. politico -- conflicts have dominated the headlines. political headlines reflect that. biden traveled to iowa, north carolina last week. yesterday he was in new

hampshire. he will go to oregon and washington state to talk about what his administration is doing on the home front. the economy continues to dominate. look at this gallup poll that found when they asked about the most important problem, then -- many people cited the economy. the top economic problem for people, the high cost of living, inflation, the economy overall, fuel and oil prices, the gap between the rich and the poor, unemployment, and the federal budget. here is the president yesterday in new hampshire, talking about inflation, and what his administration is trying to do to curb it. [video clip] >> let me be absolutely clear about why we have such high prices now. two reasons. first was covid. the where the global economy works, a factory in vietnam makes computer chips that shuts down in vietnam because of a covid outbreak. it causes a ripple effect to slow down manufacturing in

detroit, where they need those semiconductors to build automobiles. because of the pandemic, we had disruptions in the supply of important materials, so prices went up. look at automobiles. last year alone, they accounted for one third of all inflation in america. the price went up because so few were being made. auto companies could not get the computer chips and the price skyrocketed. i'm calling on congress to pass the bipartisan innovation bill to make more chips here at home and speed the supply. intel came to see me. he said they want to be able to invest $20 billion to build computer chip factories west of cleveland. if we get this piece of legislation which has passed one house and not the other, we will get to invest another $100

billion. the average salary of a full-time job -- many blue-collar jobs are $126,000 a year. things are changing. host: president biden on high costs, which is one issue dominating poles when people talk about problems in the united states. what do you think the president should be focusing on? domestic issues? our first caller in vermont, independent. caller: i think he should be focusing on inflation, and also immigration which neither party has really created a good program for immigration. people should be legal to come in here and contribute to our

country, but i would like to really contribute free speech, and just making the citizens be aware of the actual facts instead of the press contorting everything and making a mountain out of a mole hill or vice versa, not giving us information that is really true. i listen to people on your program and i hear totally wrong facts, and i have listened to both sides as life goes on, trying to figure out how our country is going to survive. thank you for your service in providing this venue for us all to contribute our ideas. host: thank your cable provider.

gordon in florida, republican. caller: thank you for taking my call. my friend adam minsky is going to be on any minute to discuss student loans. i have some in pricing -- some surprising things to inform you. students have repaid the taxpayers -- just for the defaulted loans but a bankruptcy -- if the bankruptcy bills don't pass, there will not be any free market -- and we will continue to spend money and we are going to crash the dollar and not that it matters to people that don't care about it but bankruptcy is in the constitution and every major religion -- i'm going to give my solid warning, and i am

on record saying that if the dollar crashes and the bankruptcy bills don't pass, they will be nothing as a -- why doesn't rick scott file a bill to tamp down the loan limits? why hasn't he done that? why has public service forgiveness of loans had 99% rejection? host: previewing our next topic coming up in about 15 minutes. miami, democratic caller. here we go, dennis. caller: good morning. i think national security, the rule of law, voting rights are the bedrock of this democracy which everything flows from.

if you don't protective voting rights, national security, and the rule of law -- we had in this country the last five years where the rule of law was destroyed when it came to democracy. jobs, that is another issue. i think we are doing pretty good with jobs. inflation, and then you have health care. if people don't have good health care -- good democracy, national security, health care, jobs, if you don't have this basic foundations, then we are in for a rough ride. host: with high prices for food

and other goods, oil and gas, etc. are you concerned about democrats using control of the house and senate in the upcoming midterm election. caller: yes. i think republicans are not going to do it together. democrats trying to get a handle on everything and it is just going to take time to work out iron out the inflationary pressures. republicans are trying to hold them hostage when it deals with getting more from other countries or nations. host: i'm going to leave it there because in case you missed

it in our first hour, the former vice president talking to young americans foundation, reflecting clinical headwinds republican see for democrats. political observers saying the same things. [video clip] >> how times have changed. in one year the biden-harris administration has issued a tidal wave of changes trying to wipe out the progress we made. democrats have moved so fast in the past 14 months sometimes i feel like the left hand does not know what the far left hand is doing. it is heartbreaking to see. we have the worst border crisis in american history and it is about to get worse as the administration looks to repeal title 42. inflation is at a 40 year high and the new high was sent again today, 8.5% inflation, hurting american families and american

businesses. violent criminals are given free reign in some of our largest cities. our hearts broke this morning with the headline of the terrible violence that took lace on the subway in new york. our prayers are with the injured victims and their families. one of the benefits of not being vice president is i get to drive my own car again. one of the disadvantages is i get to pay for my own gas. i was visiting my daughter and one of my unworthy son in laws a couple of weeks ago. [laughter] you can take that one home. i told my son-in-law, let me take the truck, i will go fill it up. wow. they live in california.

gasoline was like $6.50 per gallon. gasoline prices are up by 70%. massive tax increases are on the horizon. as i speak to the members of this rising generation, there is a mountain range of that put squarely on your shoulders and $30 trillion in rising. host: the former vice president with a list of domestic issues. do you agree with him? are they the priority for you and this white house? faith in california, republican. caller: first of all, we need to lose the mask mandate. if anyone would look on the internet and see all of the unwanted this, look, international, federal, state, terrorist groups -- lift the masks so we can identify these people. we need facial recognition at

the border, inside congress and senate and inside malls, we need to mask mandate lifted, we need to identify them and help our law enforcement secure these people. they may need -- they may be secure in their homes but somehow they need to be secured because i don't feel safe walking down the street anymore and all of these people are taken by a bus. they say they are secure but they don't know, they have not run these people through the computer banks. these people are being taken from texas, flown to oklahoma and new york. host: pamela miller says infrastructure is important. i also think props gouging is important. democratic caller, what do you think? caller: i want to touch on the fact that democrats and the biden administration need to

expand the supreme court and past the bill of rights. if we don't do that, we are in big trouble. this is not a republican party anymore, this is a fascist party. that is the number one priority for democrats in my opinion. thank you. host: on twitter, the top democratic priority should be to accelerate the federal response to the covid-19 pandemic. mason in charlottesville, virginia. republican. good morning. caller: good morning. i think the biggest thing is the border. i spent many winters down in mexico three or five days at a time. i have gotten to the people of all different calibers. i have one friend who used to be the mayor of the city and is now lieutenant governor. these people are coming for economic reasons, most of them.

very few are coming for safety reasons. we cannot have it. if you want to secure the jobs for the young black men and white men that are unskilled, you cannot have these people coming across the border working for three quarters of the price our americans would work for. host: nancy in altoona, pennsylvania. democratic caller. caller: president biden has so many priorities right now and he is trained to branch out -- he is trying to branch out. covid should be handled by somebody who has authority and not the cdc. i want to say how quick

everything falls into inflation happening. since the housing market has boomed, our taxes are supposedly going to be going up again. how is this helping? we may be in a recession within the next year. they jumped on the gas and as soon something is less available then we feel it. there is something wrong in the system. we should not be hearing about taxes going up because housing is going up for people selling. we are talking a possible recession. we are not being sensible. everybody has a phase -- everybody has a say in things that don't make sense. they don't make it better. we need to make things better, not just find default. that is all i have to say. host: stan, bridgewater, new

jersey. republican. caller: we have been living off of chinese slave labor. they make junk and everything -- from the chinese and they have almost as many dollars as we do. now we are having inflation. it was the byproduct of the situation just like corona was the inevitable byproduct. we have lost all sense of national self maintenance. we have lost the ability to dictate which way our lives are. we just buy junk and then the price goes up because we don't control what happens to us. let's take personal responsibility. let's take response ability for our inability to think ahead as a people and as individuals. host: sarah in indiana, pennsylvania. democratic caller.

caller: i think we need to focus on global warming. if we care about our children and grandchildren, but also it is affecting us now. these wildfires in california, this drought all over the place, the disasters in terms of the worsening of hurricanes and heavy storms. these are things hurting our economy now and will continue to hurt our economy. i don't understand why so many people are denying these effects all around us and very costly. even the business sector, insurance companies realize they cannot continue their models of covering these kinds of events because they are going to become more and more free -- more and more frequent.

the government is going to have to step in with emergency federal relief and that puts us into more debt. if you don't want more debt, combat global warming now. do whatever you can. make sure these politicians, democrats as well as republicans don't ignore this crisis that is here and now. i don't understand how people can ignore this. all of the politicians are just catering to their particular constituents and saying whatever they they want to hear instead of telling them the truth and the media is to blame as well. host: we look at down to iran, georgia. -- to byron, georgia. kenny, what should be the top

the mystic focus of this administration? caller: they ought to change the tax law so that if you file as married you get 125% of any refund. i think you can have support on both sides because republicans encourage people to get married and democrats like to give people free money. even if the republicans take over congress, i think you can get that bill passed. host: doug in las vegas, republican. caller: point number one is i think biden and the -- budget up that 90% of the problems you have are self-made because of decisions you made to put you in a position you are. it is nobody's fault except your own.

the second thing is as far as biden's priority is inflation, the eight dollar -- the eight dollars per hour guarantee they wanted to get during the election -- i believed him and i invested money in oil stocks. i already have to retire three years earlier than i thought. if they get to eight dollars an hour, my kids are going to be able to retire early. get it to eight dollars an hour -- eight dollars a gallon so my kids can retire, too. host: we are going to take a break and when we come back come focus on student loans. adam minsky is a student loan attorney and we will talk about student loan forgiveness and repayment programs. we will be right back. ♪ >> c-span brings you any

unfiltered view of government. our newsletter, word for word, re-pepsi day from the halls of congress to daily briefings to remarks from the president. scan the qr code at the bottom to sign up for this email and stay up-to-date on everything happening in washington each day. visit c-span.org/connect to subscribe anytime. >> at least six presidents recorded conversations while in office. hear those conversations on c-span's new podcast, "presidential recordings. >> season one focuses on president lyndon b. johnson. you will hear about the election campaign, the gulf of tonkin incident, selma, and the war in vietnam. not everyone knew they were being recorded. >> johnson's secretaries new

because they were tasked with transcribing those conversations. they were the ones who made sure the conversations were taped as he would signal to them. >> you will also hear some blunt talk. >> i want a report of the number of people assigned to kennedy on the day he died and the number of people assigned to me. if mine are less, i want more right quick. if i cannot go to the bathroom, i will not go. i will stay right here. >> "is it into recordings" find it right now on the c-span now at or wherever you get your recordings -- your podcasts. >> there are a lot of places to get political information. only at c-span do you get it straight from the source. no matter where you are from or where you stand on the issues, c-span is america's network.

unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. here, there, anywhere that matters. america is watching on c-span, powered by cable. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are joined by adam minsky, a student loan attorney who is joining us to talk about student loan forgiveness. tell us where student loan debt stands at in the country right now. guest: student debt is in an interesting place right now. most federal student loans have been on pause for over two years at this point as a result of the covid-19 pandemic.

payments have been suspended and no interest is accruing and fines against -- borrowers has been suspended. it has been extended multiple times. it was going to end may 1 president biden extended that to august 31. there is a possibility it could be extended beyond that. there have been some new initiatives announced by the biden administration in recent months, including help for borrowers seeking service loan forgiveness, are worse or disabled, borrowers who were defrauded i their schools, and borrowers who have been repaying their loans under an income driven payment plan. host: according to student loan hero, student loan debt stands at $1.75 trillion.

46 million have student loan debt. 92% of the debt is owed to the federal government, 8% to private financials the two shins. how does this compare in previous decades? guest: student loan debt has been increasing at a rapid clip for years. even when i started doing this work a decade ago, student loan debt was a fraction of what we are seeing today. when i first started my cactus back -- my practice in 2011, there was $100 billion in outstanding debt. now we are around $1.7 trillion. more people have debt in general. it is a growing problem. host: why do you need an attorney for student loan debt? guest: [laughter] good question.

in my view, you should not need any attorney. i should not have a job knowing this, but here i am. the reason is in large part because the system is a mess. it can be incredibly confusing for people to navigate. there have been documented problems with oversight, complex programs, and the administering of those programs. mistakes are made, people are left out what people don't know what to do. unfortunately, there is a need for some professional assistance in that regard. host: we want to hear from our viewers this morning have student loan debt have paid it off. if you have student loan debt, dial in at 202-748-8000. if you have paid off, 202-748-8001. we want to learn about your experience. all others, including some errands, 202-748-8002.

-- including some parents, 202-748-8002. we talked about the latest announcement by this administration, here is the coverage in new york times -- in washington post, "more borrowers will be given a chance to cancel student debt. this is written by daniel goblets -- daniel douglas. she said there are inconsistencies with the way income -- tracked by income driven plans. early versions of the file system used transfer borrower accounts between servicers did not track payments for some of the plans. some records lacked information about the correct payment amount. that means people could wind up paying their loans longer than needed. talk about this. this sounds like a mess. guest: it is a huge mess. there are so many problems with the federal government student loan repayment system and it can

cause massive problems for people. borrowers have steered into payment post moment programs rather than an income driven plan which has caused them to rack up an enormous amount of interest and fees on their loans. borrowers who have been on an income driven plan or entitled to loan forgiveness at the end of a 25 year term. as the reporter indicated, it appears the department of education and contractors are not doing a great job of keeping track of that. there is a real concern that borrowers, even if they have been doing everything right, might not get the ultimate benefit in the form of loan forgiveness they are entitled to under federal law. it really is a messy system. host: how many people have benefited from this forgiveness program? how does it work? guest: there are multiple loan

forgiveness programs within the student loan system. some of the more popular ones are public service loan forgiveness which allows borrowers to get any remaining balance forgiven after 120 qualifying payments which is 10 years if made consecutively. under the original rules, borrowers have to meet a bunch of requirements and jump through a jump -- and jump through a bunch of hoops. only certain types of loans qualify, only certain payments qualify, payments have to be made within a certain window. a bunch of rules that trip people up. there are income driven plans which is a type of repayment plan where borrowers can have a payment calculated based on their income. they get that payment periodically adjusted and if they stick with that for 20 or 25 years, they can get any balance forgiven at the end of

that regardless of their job or profession. there are problems with that, including service changes, keeping track of payments, missed cognitions of payments, problems with the annual review. it has been one thing after another for a lot of our hours. host: is that program retroactive? or do you have to start it at the beginning of your graduation? guest: you don't have to start any of these -- at least under the original rules -- at the beginning of your payment term. you can switch into them but in many cases there are limits to retroactivity. for the program enacted october 2007, it is not retroactive to before that. calls are coming in. host: john in texas. you have a student loan, how long have you been paying it? john, good morning to you. are you there?

caller: yes ma'am. host: how long have you been paying this loan? caller: i have been on the income driven plan but i have a different take. i don't think it should be wiped out for this reason. two years ago they passed the paycheck action program in congress. businesses, which are people, they have vince of dollars. the use that ends -- that billions of dollars to pay their workforce and then it was extended. they turned around and forgive their debt and let them keep their profits. why is it good enough for the business but not for the student? that is my question. host: do you have any thoughts? guest: thanks for that question. there has been this ongoing debate about whether there should be some blanket student loan forgiveness. if it should happen, can it happen legally?

this debate has been ongoing. there certainly are arguments in terms of fairness that you have this other types of debt forgiveness programs. why a student loan debt treated differently? -- why is student loan debt treated differently? there has been a campaign by student borrower activists and members of congress, including chuck schumer, to push president biden to cancel $50,000 or more in federal student loan debt for every borrower. it is unclear if anything like that is going to happen. the most recent commentary from the administration is that nothing is necessarily off the table. they hope congress will pass a bill allowing a loan forgiveness measure but that does not seem likely. it is a real question of whether biden would use executive action to enact a broader student loan forgiveness and what that would look like.

what the administration has been doing is using these targeted initiatives where they are basically looking at existing federal student loan programs and trying to relax the rules or expand them some more borrowers can ultimately qualify. with the announcement about the fixes to the income driven repayment system, the department is saying around 40,000 hours make get loans forgiven effectively immediately, realistically it may take a few months. another 3 million or 4 million are worse make it a predatory loan forgiveness which will accelerate their progress and shorten the timeline. host: iv in minnesota -- iv theey in minnesota -- ivy in minnesota, go ahead. caller: my daughter and son-in-law who went to college saved and went without things

like cable tv, internet, and extra phone, in her car, things like that to pay off their loans early. they did not get things forgiven and they did not expect them to be forgiven by the government. they sacrificed to pay off their loans. if there is some kind of loan forgiveness, they won't benefit from it. that is just my comment. the government putting the loans on hold during the pandemic i think was a good thing and it helped everybody that had student loans. i am not exactly sure how that process worked, but i think it was a fair thing to do given that a lot of people did not have jobs. host: adam minsky? guest: that is a fairly common point people are making in this

student loan forgiveness debate. i paid down my loans and a sacrifice to do it. why should someone else who did not do that get their loans wiped out? there are a few counter arguments and obviously it is a debate. one thing borrower advocates say is you should not have had to sacrifice to pay your student loans. that is one of the problems we have in this country, people are far going things like cars and paying utilities or they are delaying things like getting married or buying a house or saving for retirement because student loan debt is such a huge financial weight that drives people down. the idea is that it should not have to be that way.

the other counterpoint is that whenever there is some sort of progress in terms of providing a safety net or relief to people, there are going to be people before that who did not have that relief who often were able to get by. a common example is social security. before social security, there were people who saved and sacrificed so they could have retirement income as they aged with the creation of social security which was designed as a safety net for people that may have been less than necessary. it does not mean we don't go forward and create programs for people. we would not achieve any progress at all. host: william in california, you paid off your student loan. how long did it take you? caller: it took me about 10 years. host: go ahead.

caller: that person said about businesses that were forgiven, they should give students struggling the same thing. i am forgiven for some, but the government worked with me until i got a good job and i paid it off a small amount at the same time. i am not saying forgive it totally, but if they are going to forgive businesses than like someone else said, do the same for students, especially if they are struggling. host: you said it took you 10 years. do you know how much you paid in interest? caller: no, i just did whatever the government told me to do until they said it was finished.

i was just happy they were not suing me to collect. host: okay. you heard him say the government worked with him at times when his income was low what he was out of a job. they worked with him. can you explain how that happens? caller: -- guest: the good thing about federal student loans is there are programs that provide books ability. there are options to defer payments or go into forbearance during economic hardships. there are income driven programs that can provide affordable payments for people when their income is too low so they cannot afford normal payments. we do have these programs that can benefit people. everything has a downside. these programs are complicated, sometimes people are steered into the wrong program. we just briefly talked about interest.

i think it is worth mentioning that interest in particular on student loans is a major problem for people, especially when you take advantage of these programs that can help you get by during times of hardships. interest can accrue on a very large-scale depending on the program you are in. that accruing interest can be lumped in on the principal balance through a process called interest capitalization. under an income driven plan, if you're payments are not high enough to cover interest, you might see your balance grow, even while you are doing what you need to do to make progress toward your repayment term. there are a ton of examples i see in my practice that i know are common throughout the country where people have been paying for years and still owe more than they originally borrowed. some people wind up paying

several times more than the amount they originally borrowed. that is a unique feature of our student loan future -- student loan system here. it is not as if people are not paying their debts and then asking them to be wiped out, these are often people who have been paying for years and not only have they made no progress, they are further behind than they were. host: what is the outcome of that when they hire you? guest: obviously, i'm not a magician and i cannot make debt disappear, but what i try to do is help people get set up in the best possible plans, programs, advise them on their legal rights and options. if there is a problem or dispute that needs to be resolved, we try to work through that to get them to a place where based on the way things are, we can get them the best possible outcome.

host: there is student loan debt for borrowers who are defrauded by their schools. explain. guest: there is a program called borrower defense to repayment. it is a complicated program but the basic gist is that if your school engaged in fraud or misrepresentation about key elements of the educational program, for instance the transferability of your credits or career prospects, that type of thing, if you were duped into attending or staying enrolled once you found out there were misrepresentations, there is a program that can allow you to get more request -- to get or request federal loans discharged. it requires political and legal wrangling for years. there were -- there was rearing

there was regulation under obama that was rewritten under the chubb administration. now there are rules being rewritten under biden. now rules have been stuck in limbo, people have been waiting for their case to get processed for years. the biden administration has started to work through the backlog and relax some of the red tape that has trapped a lot of hours in bureaucratic limbo -- a lot of are worse in bureaucratic limbo. particularly schools who attended for-profit schools like itt technical institution. if your school did defraud you, there is a program that could require -- that could provide you relief. host: philip is in maryland. philip, what is your story?

caller: like he said, i have been going through this complicated issue. i have a student loan total of $75,000 and now i am in debt $125,000. i have been paying on these loans for the past 25 years. i wrote to the state board of education. there is nothing that -- [indiscernible] it got to a point where i had to continue to pay minimum i can afford to pay to stay alive. i am 65 going to 66 years old. that is one issue.

host: hang on the line. adam, what is your advice to him? guest: classic example here. i am so sorry to hear about your situation. i borrowed $75,000, paying 25 years, now i/o $125,000. that is not an uncommon story when it comes to student loan debt. this is the problem with the system. you accrue interest before you start repaying on most types of loans. when you start paying, you are barely starting to pay it down. along the way, life happens as you encounter problems or issues where you have to reduce payments or take a break. now you have a ton of interest that accrues and something really goes wrong, you might have a ton of interest over a long period of time. he start making payments again. -- you start making payments again. it feels like people you can

never get ahead and he will be paying this for the rest of your life. host: why can't student loan forgiveness apply to philip? he says he has been paying for 25 years. guest: it depends on the specifics. i don't have enough information to know what is going on but under the original rules of these programs, there is specific eligibility criteria. as a result, you might be in repayment but not in the right plan. you might be paying down loans but not the right type for a program that would benefit you. it is really unfortunate. one thing i will say is that the recent announcement by the to relax and streamline income driven programs might benefit folks in that type of situation.

it is a little early to know for sure, less than 24 hours since the announcement was made. based on what i know, i think for folks who are in this situation who have been in repayment for a couple of decades or longer, these changes the administration announced could be a lifesaver. host: gordon in plant city, florida. caller: thank you for letting me ask the attorney what he thinks about the two student bankruptcy bills are necessary to tamp down spending and the fact that students have paid back $1.22 of every dollar owed. if we don't stop, it will be a bubble and we will crash the dollar if we don't get out. i would like to have a two way interaction with my good friend, adam minsky. host: [laughter] guest: i cannot comment on the

bubble or impacts of the dollar, but there are bankruptcy reform proposals out there and i think bankruptcy reform is important. for those who don't know, while it is not impossible to discharge student debt and bankruptcy, it is externally difficult. under the bankruptcy code, or worse have to meet a difficult standard called undue hardship to prove they are not able to pay their loans and as a result are entitled to a discharge. to do that, they have to go through a difficult proceeding called an adversary proceeding which functions more or less as a lawsuit against your student loan lenders to prove that you meet this difficult standard. a lot of people don't meet the standard, but a lot of people don't even try because of the hurdles. a lot of bankruptcy attorneys don't want to try, either,

because it can be a long process. that means bankruptcy may not be any option for some people. there are some reform measures being proposed. there is one bipartisan will in the senate that would relax some of the rules and allow certain types of federal student loans to be discharged from bankruptcy. loans must have been in repayment for at least 10 years. that is designed to cut down on what some argue could be fraud folks graduate from school and immediately run into banks of the -- into bankruptcy court. the restrictions trap so may borrowers with no many -- with no way out that they do not qualify for the loans exist. bankruptcy exists as a fresh start for so many other types of debt, why should it be different for student loan debt?

i am hoping maybe we will see some crepes he reform in the near term. host: our next call comes from francine in arlington, virginia. what type of loan do you have and what has been your experience? caller: i have a student loan and i have been paying it off for about 15 years. it is through the department of education. it is income based. my other question is, in my younger years, my father served in the military and he was paying for my student loan through the g.i. bill. he is since deceased. i am trying to find out if there is a way the military will pay for my student loans now that he is deceased? guest: i don't know the answer to that question. i think it depends on the specifics and benefits your father was receiving.

in general, for federal student loans, it is only the borrower's circumstances that impact dischargeability or some other program. for the public service program, the borrower has to be working in public service. for the disability discharge service, it is the borrower who has to be disabled. for those types of programs, it is the borrower's circumstances and not the circumstances of a family member that impact eligibility. host: christine in massachusetts. you have a student loan as well? caller: i do. i graduated in 1999 with a masters degree. it is not $130,000 -- it is now $130,000. i made it -- payment which was

followed by a few more payments and deferments. more payments, forbearance, more parents -- more payments. i consolidated in 2002. i entered the ivr program in 2015. my question is, am i hearing this correct, that perhaps now if the clock starts with your first payment and that is inclusive of deferment and forbearance payments made that were made head of consolidation and that first payment was back in september 1999, am i looking at a 25 year forgiveness period that would put me in september 2024? that would be fantastic. [laughter] what do i need to do to get those balls in motion? guest: one thing i will

re-emphasize again is that the announcement on this new initiative is hot off the presses. the department of education has not released a ton of guidance yes. -- a ton of guidance yet. all of us advocates are trying to eat up as much information as we can but there is still a lot of unknowns. everyone's situations is different. under the original rules of the repayment program's, only time in repayment under the program counts. in the example we just heard from the caller, if i heard her correctly, she entered an income driven plan in 2015. that means under the rules of the program, she would be looking at 20 or 25 years from 2015 which is quite a long time. now, under the initiative

announced yesterday, the administration is saying certain types of forbearances and deferments may be counted towards the repayment term. payments made under other plans, including non-income driven plans could be recounted. there are other nuances so nothing is necessarily universal. it is quite possible all those prior periods which had been -- it might accelerate how close you are to loan forgiveness. that will be the case for a lot of people. the department of education .6 million or worse will see six years or more of additional progress towards their repayment terms under this initiative. that is a lot of people sing a lot of potentially big benefits. host: christina, i want to give you a chance to follow up. caller: that is great news to

hear. i have a renewed pep in my step today. it being off the press -- it being hot off the press is fair to acknowledge. do i keep following you on twitter to keep up? host: he wrote a piece on forbes.com. adam minsky, will you be updating people on twitter or somewhere else? guest: for sure, follow me on twitter or llin -- or linkedin. you can also go to studenaid.gov and if you scroll down, you will see it before announcements where they post new guidance on commission -- new guidance

information. the department of education has said a lot of these changes will be implemented automatically. borrowers may not have to do something, but in other cases they will. that is the nuance we are waiting for overcoming days, here is how it works, what do you have to do? in many cases you don't have to do everything. they will go through everyone's accounts and implement these changes. it is important we get that information out there. i will do what i can to get that detail out there. host: we were showing your website, it is minsky.law.com. karen from pensacola, florida, it is your turn. caller: i am calling to find out

what happens to the institutions that lend the money to the students. if there is loan forgiveness -- and i might be over split find this cash might be oversimplifying -- might be oversimplifying this, what about the institutions and how will they feel about not getting paid ? guest: in many cases it is not the actual institution that functions as the lender. for federal student loans, the department of the education is the lender for the lending program which has been the main program since 2010. there are also five student loan lenders like commercial lenders, banks, that kind of thing that issue private loans. they are the lender, not the school. some schools lend money directly

institutional he. private student loans for the most part are not covered by loan forgiveness initiatives. that is not really something that directly factors in. that being said, these schools are benefiting from access to federal student aid and other forms of student that products -- and other forms of student debt products. i think there is a push to regulate that more to curtail the rising cost of tuition. while that is a related issue, it is separate from loan forgiveness programs we have in discussing. host: it is the taxpayer who would lose out on the interest and payment? guest: that is a thing there is a lot of debate over. because it is not as if taxpayers are directly paying problem forgiveness. it is the government forgoing revenue.

it is not quite the same thing. obviously, we can debate the actual impacts of that. to your point, it is a federal government issue, not a school or institution issue when it comes to these student loan programs. host: susie in greensboro, georgia. caller: good morning. i am calling because if we look at it, anytime our government or any parts of our government set up laws or bills or programs, the first thing that comes out are all of the people who will find a way around it and make money off of it. my opinion with the student loans, it was the universities and colleges that found a bottomless pit of money through these loans. they upped and upped all of their costs to make sure they

got as much of that money as they could. when is our government going to address their overcharges? guest: that is a great question. i completely agree that one of the major problems we have here is the rising cost of tuition. we can do some work to address and help the people that are struggling with loans and have been for decades. unless we also address the other half of it, the high cost of higher education and the reliance on debt to fund it, we will be back we are years from now given with another $1.7 trillion in student loan debt. i complete the agree. what the biden administration is doing borrowers they are doing through executive action under existing federal statutes.

to curtail rising tuition and step away from a debt-financed model of higher education, we need structural reforms and that will have to come more from congress and from state legislatures. one of the problems we have had is a withdrawal of public funding, in particular of our public institutions of higher education which have in turn resulted in students and their families having to bear more of the cost burden, often in the form of student debt. i definitely think these are two sides of it water issue. -- two sides of a broader issue. host: covina in woodbridge, virginia. caller: my issue is i worked my way through college and decided to go do my --

i got a federal loan. i decided to go ahead and do my doctorate. host: color, you have to mute your television. it is too confusing. got it muted? caller: yes. host: go ahead. caller: i worked my way through college and then went ahead and did my masters. with my masters i had to get a student loan because i could not afford it. after my graduation with my masters, i went for a while as i was paying my student loan. then i decided to go ahead and do my doctorate.

one program i do have is this, the interest for the student loan is so much better after graduating with my masters. my student loan for three years was around $45,000 for two years. the interest jumped to $70,000. when i went to try to do my doctorate, with tuition and interest, i ended up owing student loans over $100,000. my issue is i think the government should find a way to curtail the interest or the --

should be the amount students should pay. they should forget the interest. host: let's take that point. guest: that is not the first caller who has raised the concern about interest and i think it really interests -- it really illustrates the widespread frustration and hopelessness a lot of borrowers feel. they cannot get ahead of this debt and will not be able to repay it. it is not that they don't want to repay what they borrowed, it is that what they owe today is more because of all of the interest that accrues and gets capital last leading to a -- gets capitalized leading to a compounding effect. it is absurd some of the numbers i see every day. you look at what these original balances were and what they owe today after years of payments.

it should be criminal, but it is not. i agree, we need to see a reform to how interest works. host: how high our interest rates, typically? caller: vaped -- guest: they very. they are set by congress and change over time. federal student loan interest rates in some cases can be low, 2%, 3%, 4%. for folks who go to graduate school and parent plus borrowers who take out loans for their kids' interest rates, interest rates -- for their kids' education, interest rates can be higher. these interest rates as you are in school and you are in a grace period, if you are in period of nonpayment and interest in crews, that can be compounded.

it can lead to extreme cases of balance growth, even when our aware has made a lot of payment. we are seeing interest reform. we are starting to see hints of that and there have been proposals to curtail interest capitalization and the amount of interest that can accrue over the lifetime of a loan. i hope we see some reforms on that end. host: adam minsky is a contributor to forbes magazine. you can find him online and on twitter at @adamsminsky. guest: i am a senior contributor to [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2022] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ♪

>> today on c-span, a look at cyber threats from russia, china, and iran with national cyber director chris english. that is alive from the council on foreign relations. at 12: 30, the polish of basilar to the u.s. talks about efforts to help you more than 2 million ukrainians seeking refugees into poland. white house officials talked about what a modern presidency looks like. press secretary jen psaki, former trump senior counsel kellyanne conway, and former obama secretary jay carney are

live at 7:00 p.m. eastern. everything is also available to watch on c-span.org or omni c-span now video at. >> american history tv, saturday on c-span two. at 2:00 p.m. eastern on the presidency, the final episode of our series "first lady" we will look at the role of the first lady and the issues important to them. this week will feature melania trump. >> i am very excited to be here today. thank you for sharing your story and your thoughts. i want to encourage children everywhere to be their best.

>> a discussion about hollywood's take on history. historians at the movies, jason herbert at yorktown foundation kristi coleman, exploring the american story. watch american history tv saturday on c-span two. find a full schedule on your program guide. watch online anytime at c-span.org/history. >> book tv every sunday on c-span two features leading authors. at 2:00 p.m. eastern we will feature the indianapolis book festival with democratic congressman jamie raskin with his book "unthinkable" and journalist susan page and her book "madam speaker." at 10:00 p.m. eastern on afterwards, journal-constitution

political reporter greg groups the talks about his book on georgia turning purple during the presidential election and the significance in future state and national elections. he is interviewed by eugene stop. watch book tv every sunday on c-span two. find the whole schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. provided by these television companies and more including charter communications. >> broadband is a force for empowerment. building infrastructure, upgrading technology, empowering opportunity in communities big and small. charter is connecting us. >> charter communications support c-span as a public service along with these other television providers, giving you

a front row seat to democracy. >> representative hakeem jeffries of new york shares his thoughts on democracy in america and abroad. he talked about the relationship between economic inequality and threats to democracy. this is about one hour. the server dialogues on democracy are taught because of the generosity of jim thurber and his wife, claudia thurber. our moderator tonight is