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"washington journal" continues. host: we are going to talk about retirement savings programs. we are joined by will hansen who wears two hats. you are the chief government affairs officer for the american retirement association. also the executive director of the plan sponsor council of america. two different hats tell us what , each job involves. guest: the american retirement association is an organization with 38,000 members and all of our members have a 401(k) or retirement plan. we have members who are financial advisors who advise 401(k) plans. we have consultants administrators, record keepers who do the daily functions of retirement plans. the organization i oversee, that is your hr folks, human resources, individuals who are sponsoring a plan, running the

plan for the company. as an officer, i advocate on capitol hill, even on the local level, ensuring that we have a strong private retirement system for americans to be able to retire with a secure retirement. host: we have a big private retirement system in america, but what role does the federal government play with those private retirement systems? guest: back in 1974, gerald ford on labored day signed the employee retirement security act and a law. it was roughly $138 billion in assets at that time. we are nearing $40 trillion, which includes government plans as well. with the passage of the employee retirement income security act in 1974, that is when government got involved and started to put more protections in place for participants.

but also, more incentives and more structure on how companies should be providing these plans to employees. host: what is the relationship between what you do and what the pension plans in america, those are different from the plans that many hr systems are setting up across the country, correct? guest: some of our members are engaged in pension plans. some of our members are actuaries and consultants of pension plans. we do focus on them in a small matter. it is not our greatest area. we heavily focused on the 401(k) plans that are out there for government workers and teachers. pension plans are still there. they are still viable. they are still an option for certain companies. it all comes down to your workforce. host: we will break up our conversation by age group, seems appropriate because of the way people are saving for

retirement. the latest figures we have in terms of retirement savings by age, the overall average of american savings is $132,000 . now surprisingly, if you are between the ages of 65 to 69, the average is $207,000. between 45 and 49, $138,000. between 25 and 29, under $25,000. $25,000. do those figures surprise you or please you? guest: we are aware of these figures. one of the benefits of my job is going to congress and try to pass laws that will increase the amount of savings, also increase the amount of americans that have access to a plan. we need to do better to ensure more americans have a secure retirement and that is why i am grateful that capitol hill is currently working on a law that will do that. host: in march, the house passed secure 2.0 and some details from that plan, it would expand the

auto enrollment in plans, it would increase the required minimum distribution age to 75, would change federal tax credits for contributions, improve coverage for part-time workers in 401(k) plans and create new financial incentives for small businesses to offer retirement programs. if ever there was a bipartisan issue, it seems this is one. it passed the house, but was it on a bipartisan basis? guest: a huge bipartisan basis, it was on a vote of 414 to 5. it has been in the works for several years. it builds off of secure 1.0 which passed in september of -- december of 2019 on a bipartisan basis. host: what is the reason for increasing the minimum distribution? explain what that is and why raise the age? and what are they raising it from? guest: up until a few years ago

prior to the passage of secure 1.0, the required minimum distribution once you hit age 70.5, you need to start withdrawing dollars from your 401(k) plan. the policy reasoning behind that is that a retirement plan is set up to help you during retirement. it should not be used as a tool for estate planning. but we are living longer. we are working longer. they wanted to ensure that as we age and as we continue to work longer, we do not retire at 55 or 60, but some do, they can keep that money for a greater number of years. secure one point know push that to 72 and secure 2.0 would push that over a number of years up to 75. host: the piece that would expand the 401(k) offerings to part-time workers, is that a new thing and what is behind that? guest: it is not new.

it was also in secure 1.0 in 2019 and we have resorted to see data that shows that it is helping. the council of america does an annual survey and we could see that more individuals were being covered by their employer plans. that extended to part-time workers. secure 2.0, it will increase or thesecure 2.0, it will increase or decrease the timing that will allow a part-time worker to become eligible. they will become eligible for a plan, in a more quicker manner under 2.0. host: here is how we are setting aside the phone lines. (202) 748-8000 is the line to use if you are 65 years of age or older. if you are between the ages of 30 and 64, that is (202) 748-8001. for those of you under 30, (202) 748-8002. you can send us a question via text, (202) 748-8003.

tell us your name and where you are texting from and i will read some of those. for those age groups, what should people be doing as they get to these age groups? 65 and older, they are entering the potential of retirement age at 65 and older. or maybe they have already retired. your general guidance when people approach that age? caller: for them, if they are working at a company that has an hr person, go to hr and start having that conversation with your hr folks and figure out what are your options as you approach retirement and once you hit retirement, they will be able to give you options on what you should be looking at doing, whether you need to be working with a financial advisor, what kind of distribution options are available under the plan. that is the best option for you if you are working for an employer that provides that. host: that age group between 30 and 64 is a big spread but your general guidance for that age

group? guest: start saving. make sure you are putting those dollars away. every dollar counts. we realize that there are other barriers to that. you may be saving for a home. you may have student loans. there are some great provisions in secure 2.0 that will help. host: when reread that figure earlier the average retirement , savings for folks between 25 and 29 is under $10,000. is there a different strategy for those who have not yet hit 30, for those who have come out of college, graduate school, or in the workforce, paying off student debt? and other things like that? guest: one of the provisions in secure 2.0 would help those individuals who are repaying student loans. there is a popular provision that is sponsored by the chairman of the senate finance committee that would allow an employer to put money into the 401(k) plan, basically a matching contribution based on the dollars that an individual

participant is repaying in student loans. host: i want to ask you about the headline from cnbc, "crypto poses a serious risk. the biden administration warns that cryptocurrencies and other investment like nft's pose significant risk to investors. they warned that employers should proceed with care before adding them to a retirement plan." in general what is the , responsibility of the employer sponsor a 401(k) or 403 b plan? guest: the employee retirement secured act of 1974 is still one of the strongest financial standards that is out there currently on sponsors of a retirement plan. they must act with fiduciary duty of care. they have to use a number of standards when reviewing the types of assets or investment funds that are included in that 401(k) plan.

when it comes to things like crypto, they need to determine whether or not this is an asset or an investment that should be included, whether it is the right investment that should be included. host: you are with an organization long enough and you have a 401(k) plan or a 403 b plan, sometimes that organization changes that plan sponsor, that investment company. what are typically the reasons for those changes that employers make? caller: employers are consistently reviewing their investment lineup. they are making changes. they probably have an advisor giving them advice. it might have a bad year or a bad couple of years. the track record is not great. if the company that is running the investment fund changes, they will flag that, review it,

and determine whether or not they need to switch to a different fund. fees are dropping like crazy. the fees imposed on investment funds are prudent of the plan sponsor to analyze the fees and make sure they are finding the lowest fees or the lower fees out there on the match with the investment. host: what is driving the drop in fees? is it just competition? guest: competition, also transparency. there are a lot of great rules that have been imposed upwards of one decade ago that have started to shine a light on these fees and force more publicly these type of fees that are being imposed on these funds, which is great for all involved. host: we are talking with will hansen of the american retirement association on retirement savings plans. we welcome your calls and comments. we will go to the 65 and over in plainfield, ohio, michael. caller: thanks for catching that technical correction. it was the ombudsman

reconciliation act of 1984 that created the 401(k) provisions, which i believe is the core of what this gentleman is talking about. here is my concern and question. when you retire, people who have these fat 401(k)s because of an inflated stock market because the fed has kept interest rates artificially low for so long, it is not even a joke, you have this big amount of money. but as soon as you start to withdraw it, it is subject to income tax and if you happen to be getting social security also, which almost everybody does, after social security starts to

become taxed and it works its way up to 85% of social security. the original plan when people were retiring with roosevelt, it was supposed to be three legs of the stool. social security, private savings, and private pension plans and we have gone away from the private pension plans. my question is this. in first of all, another technical correction, there are tons of people in the united states who might on paper have 401(k)s in that they are offered to them. but not everybody can participate because of low wages. the bottom line question is there is not enough money in any of these plans for the average person to have any kind of a comfortable retirement. the only associations other than

aarp that talk about this are associations that are lobbying for putting more money so that the brokers get rich and the rest of us get their money lost. if anybody looked at the news yesterday, the market took a big dive. unless the 401(k)s, this is what i wanted to comment on. unless they are highly regulated such that when you get within time of withdrawing the money, it should be transitioning by law to more fixed income-type investments in my opinion, so there is actually some money that is not at risk. host: appreciate the call. will hansen? guest: i appreciate those thoughts. i want to respectfully disagree. working directly with an

advisor, yes there are fees associated working with that advisor. in the long run, individuals will be able to retire with a secure retirement because of working with that advisor. 401(k) plans are heavily regulated. when it comes to financial products out there, an advisor that is working directly with an individual and their assets as i mentioned a little bit ago, has the strongest standard of care out there. if they are working with an individual on a product not associated with a 401(k), a lesser standard of care. those advisors need to be working in the best interest of their participants and there are a lot of regulations out there. with respect to wages, that is a tough subject. there is a lot of debate out there on whether or not wages should increase. i will push that aside and focus on encouraging more americans,

even low income americans, and the data out there shows, that low income americans who have access to a retirement plan are still saving. the average contribution annually for low income americans is around $2000 to $2500 per year and that can add up. host: you talked about the drop yesterday in the markets. what has been the performance of america's 401(k) plans? in terms of the returns on these plans? guest: overtime, i do not know that offhand. if you look at the assets, it is a proven track record that if you have access to a retirement plan, you are 12 times more likely to save on that retirement plan compared to on your own. if you do so consistently, you will set yourself up for secure retirement. host: let's hear from sandusky, ohio. up next this is eric on the 30 , to 60 line.

go ahead eric. caller: thanks for taking my call. how about this one? i am a 50-year-old man this year. i am starting a new job which will be a pretty good job with a retirement plan. tiaa i think that is a 403 b , technically. i don't know. with my available funds, where should i prioritize my investments with matching investments with my new company or by focusing on my ira that i have already established going forward? guest: great question. unfortunately i do not want to , give any investment advice. i am not an investment advisor. but i do encourage you to talk , to your new employer. see what resources they have for

you. yes, most likely it is a form 403 b plan if it is administered by tiaa. see what resources are available to you. it is probably working with a financial advisor to take into account all your assets and figuring out where you should prioritize yourself financially over the coming years to set yourself up for a great retirement. host: the truth is for someone that age with the potential of 50 or more years until retirement, a substantial amount of money could be squirreled away. guest: once you hit age 50, there are catch-up contributions. you are able to currently in 2022 max out upwards of $20,500 into your retirement account that is tax-free. with age 50, you are able to

save away a few additional thousand dollars. in the secure 2.0 provisions, there is a provision that would increase that amount. host: we mentioned it passed the house? what is the story? guest: the two committees of jurisdiction are the senate finance committee and the senate health education labor and pension committee. we expect both committees will hold what is called a markup so they will put forward a bill. they will mark up that bill, make changes to it through the committee process. from there, what will happen is those two committees, along with the house ways and means will get together and figure out what is the final bill they can put together and get it over the finish line by the end of this year. host: let's hear from james in ohio. go ahead. caller: good morning.

c-span may hold our little democratic republic together all on its own. for your guest, i started work at 16. at 29, i decided to be a teacher. i worked a number of years paying into social security. you probably know the question that is coming. as a teacher my first contract , was $8,450. i remember it well. i kept working part-time. i had a lot of social security money built up, all those quarters that they count. naturally, i was subject to the windfall reduction act, i believe it was called. i think it came in during ronald reagan's administration. if i recall correctly. and so because i retired from , teaching a public service kind of job, i had my social security

reduced from $1000 to $300 per month. here's my question whether that , is fair or not, maybe you want to address. maybe you won't. the other thing is, that amount after having been reduced once by windfall reduction is also income that is federally taxed and state taxed. i was wondering if there is any chance that i contact maybe sheriff brown or someone in the senate that we could maybe get windfall reduction act reduced amounts subject to a lot less taxation, maybe no taxation since they have already been cut down drastically, if you were a teacher or public employee. thank you. guest: thank you for that question. thank you for being a teacher. i am actively trying to go over

the recesses of my brain to remember that specific provision from when i was on capitol hill. i know that this is an active issue that has been discussed for decades. i think it was first back in the 1980's that change was made. i would encourage you to reach out to your elected officials. reach out to senator sherrod brown. senator portman is one of our leaders on retirement issues on capitol hill. we are sad to see he is retiring. many elected officials get engaged in retirement issues. reach out to them and encourage them to look into this issue. host: the bureau of labor statistics says as of march 2021 68% of private industry workers had access to retirement benefits through their employer with 51% choosing to participate. 92% in state and local government had access to

retirement benefits with 82% participation. the take-up rate, the share of workers that participate in the plan was 75% for private industry. workers in 89% for state and local government workers. for people who do not participate, what are the reasons? guest: it is most likely that there are financial pressures that are discouraging them from taking up participation. participation does have other financial incentives. most likely that is probably why. host: do most private employers offer matching? guest: yes. a significant percentage of employers offer some sort of match on contribution. that is one of the reasons why 401(k) plans offered by an employer are superior to other products out there like your

individual retirement account or some of the state plans that have been popping up that have been auto enrolling individuals. host: to the employer, is that a tax benefit, when they offer that match, is that a tax benefit? guest: there are incentives for the employer when they are making these contributions. in fact in secure 2.0, there are , tax incentives for small businesses in particular to provide employer contributions to the individual employees. host: let's hear from allen calling from pittsburgh on the 65 and older line. go ahead alan. caller: my question is on the required minimum distribution. if you are still working, do you have to take this distribution? guest: if you still are working, you are not required to take that distribution. host: to michael in florida. good morning.

good morning. you are on the air. we will go to our 30 to 60 line and hear from omar in brooklyn. go ahead. caller: good morning. host: can you do me a favor? if you are on a speakerphone, can you pick up it is a little echo eyit is a little echoy. caller: is that a little better? host: a little better. caller: i used to work for a brokerage firm. i really do not want to promote it. i used to work in 2002 for a brokerage firm. i was in the ira department so i am very aware of how ira works and retirement account. from what i understand, it is a

tax from employees that protects them from being fired while contributing to these programs. the funny thing is while i was working there through the 9/11 thing thing, they started making , cutbacks. i am saying that to say this. isn't there something to protect employees from being let go? say for example, you were in a car accident, which i was. i got long-term disability. and that after that, any disability program that is , supposed to be protected. if you are a salary employee and and your doctor tells you to go back for a few hours. if you are a salary employee and your doctor tells you to go

back, what protects the employee from being let go because if they are let go while you are getting those medical benefits, that will get lost. host: i think we have the just -- the gist of it. thank you for your call, omar. guest: to your specific question linking to protecting individual from being let go or fired while disabled, there is no link directly between the firing or letting go of somebody disabled. however, there are potentially other links under the family medical leave act and other laws out there that there might be protections. i am just not an expert on those specific ones. within the 401k space, if an

individual does become permanently disabled, that is one way for them to be able to withdraw from their 401(k) plan without penalty if they have not reached each -- age 59.5 to assist that individual with any expenses popping up because of the disability. ral loans how can this be changed? i don't know if this is out of the realm of legislation. guest: it is something that we understand, many of the student loans can be contributed to the 55 year old and plus. it is an issue. if they are currently employed, hopefully allowing the company to help reduce some of the loans

so that hopefully they can have some money put into the retirement account. host: let's go to new jersey. good morning. caller: good morning. i have been retired since 2015. i think the idea of the 401(k) in place of the traditional pension was probably not a good move for the majority of americans because they need a pension they cannot outlive. i think there is an attempt to try to shore up the programs to get more people participating and the kids to do that in the 20's and 30's he can't save for

retirement. i think one of the biggest things i have noticed, i am essentially a single woman and if you are the sole income into your household, you have to have provisions made that bulletproof for various conditions, and one of them is from 60 to 65, people think they may wish to retire but they can't get on medicare and the cost of medical insurance is so high if it is not part of your retirement package, luckily mine was but most aren't, but that is what prohibits people unless they have a spouse who they can jump on his or her medical coverage plan. when you're single, there is no one to jump on. so i think that is a narrative that needs to be shored up for all of americans, especially

single retirees. host: we will hear from our guest. guest: first, your focus on 401(k)s and the fact that the provisions are trying to get more people access, and that is true and we do need to shore up coverage and make sure more americans have access to the retirement plan. the bureau of labor statistics stated that 60% have access to it when you dig into the details and look at the employer's of 500 or more, it is 91 percent so it is really small businesses. the senate does happen we will put some provisions that will encourage small businesses but that is where we need to shore up coverage. you mentioned. up to medical expenses, that is true and what i encourage any american right now is to talk to your hr department and figure out, do you have a health savings account, which is

another tax-deferred see -- vehicle that will help individuals be able to put funds away from -- for their medical expenses and savings into their 401(k). that can also be used as a retirement account if you are not utilizing it for medical purposes. host: you pointed out the original social security seems to be coming into retirement is now four-legged, you have an element of social security but you have to concern yourself about your medical care or medicare and how that is going to be handled and then your individual retirement account. the other piece is dealing with the tax implications of taking both funds out. guest: i think we need to re-look at that. you definitely have to take into

account the tax implications, and there are new options becoming available. there is more encouragement on broth contributions, contributions you put in after-tax but when you are withdrawing those they come out tax-free and those are provisions you have to keep in mind. host: there was some's -- some criticism that said, why is congress aiming to expand the use of roth accounts. if you raise revenue the u.s. treasury get more money upfront. the legislation known as secure to .0 would manda bay that all catch-up contributions, extra contributions to workplace retirement plans would have to be made as roth contributions, no pretext contributions. what are your thoughts? guest: it is a bipartisan bill that is fully pay for. there are provisions that would

cost the government and those that would raise money for what they cost you one provision is increasing the requirement of the distribution age to 75. that is a provision but it is for catch-up contributions but is for a sliver of people doing the catch-up contributions. you have to contribute 20,500 dollars first before you start to make catch-up contributions. so there is a population impacting their peer for the most part, most of that population is probably well off and roth contributions will not have a big impact on their ability to retire. host: let's are from -- let's hear from james in aurora, illinois. caller: yes, i'm calling into rick talk -- in for a 403

program which is for the pensions and churches may have some employees enrolled in a 401 3(b) which is government-sponsored for the private sector. who are the shareholders, stockholders? who are the ones who own all of these state, municipal and county government pension plans for public sector employees? guest: all of those plans which do fall out of the scope of arisa protection. they are provided by the state and local governments themselves. there are county plans, estate plans, teacher, police, fire plans but all administered at the level of the county or state. host: question from diana and teacher, she asks, why did

prudential sell their retirement division to empower and what is behind the ongoing trend of pension is transfer. how did the 2017 tax law in tax rate increases advances. guest: on prevention -- prudential, you will have to divert that question to them. there has been a lot of consolidation within the retirement industry. a lot of that might be is that there are lower fees associated with retirement plans. you need to scale up the business to make sure it is still profitable. on pension risk transfer, i don't dive too much into that area, but the driving reason behind why a lot of companies are trying to offload liabilities within their pension plan is because the administrative cost associated

with operating that plan. congress, for years, continue to increase fees they would charge employers to operate these plans and it was most like a budget gimmick. they were raising money on paper to pay for something else and that is that to the point where employees started to shut down pension plans. am i getting rid of these pension risk transfers they shed the cost of operating the plans. i don't remember the third one. host: how did the tax increases advance this? guest: i'm not able to answer that question. host: let's get to rob in grand junction, colorado. caller: thank you for being on. i taught consumer math and i had my students write a paper on social security and the importance of putting away 10% of everything they earn into

retirement accounts. i'm also part of the vep -- wep. the campaign that president biden said he was going to get rid of the vep though we have not seen it. our question is -- presently, i have to pay taxes on 85% of my social security benefits if i make more than $34,000 a year. i believe that went into effect in 1983. the problem is i don't believe that is been adjusted for inflation. has it been increased from $34,000 and was that law in 1983? if we put into inflation, that account today would be at fort texas over $98,000 income and it began with only one in 10 people being impacted but now it is over half of those.

is there any legislation at all to increase this and justice for the inflation rate? guest: i don't know the answer to your russian on whether there is a specific provision to the one in mentioned. there are constantly elected officials putting out proposals to reform social security. i, myself, and the organization i work for do not advocate on the social security changes. our pipeline is retirement. as a former staffer on capitol hill, it is a very hot topic, social security. my hope is that congress would tackle at the same way they tackle retirement policy, in a bipartisan manner and hopefully that is something they will focus on soon. host: you have any anecdotal stories from younger workers who are concerned about whether social security will be there when they retire is propelling

them to invest more in their employers' plan? guest: definitely. when i was working in hr for a large company, i would hear little quips from individuals, why should i pay into social security because it just kept going to be around or why should i start saving for retirement, i will have to work forever because there will not be security. so we would consistently hear those. host: let's hear from frank in utah. good morning. frank, in utah, you are on the air. all right, we will go to benny in virginia. caller: good morning, c-span. i am 66 years of age, and i know we are taught me about retirement benefits and things of that nature is morning, but i retired as a military in 1997. my wife retired at the military

in 2008. so we have a great retirement program, and with that retirement program we have come up we get a cost-of-living allowance every year from the military. my wife was able to take advantage of the tst program also and we also receive disability income from the military. we decided not to take social security until we are at the age of 70, because we want to continue to let that social security income grow. i am self-employed right now as we speak, and i focus on residual income, so that is going to take me beyond a stalemate in income. my income is going to continue to grow. my question is -- social security as we retire is taxed so heavily and i think that

income on social security, those taxes need to be reduced going forward. so i think in my personal opinion, if you are healthy i am, and my wife, some people are retiring just to early. host: i want to go to will hansen' s final thoughts. guest: dimension from the -- the mansion from the earlier color that hopefully we will find some social security reform down the road. host: will hansen , on america's retirement association programs and plans, thank you for being here. guest: thank you for having me. host: there is more washington journal, we will talk about no-knock warrants. we will be joined by washington

post reporters jen abelson and nicole dungca to discuss their podcast on no-knock warrants. the lines are open at (202) 748-8001, republicans. (202) 748-8000, democrats. (202) 748-8002, for others. we will be right back. ♪ >> sunday on q and a, a journalist talks about his book the hundred year war for american conservatism, a history of the republican party and the risk that led to the election of donald trump in 2016. >> when you see the through line of figures who have a populism

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