>> c-span has unfiltered coverage of the u.s. response to russia's invasion of ukraine, bringing you the latest from the president and other white house officials, the pentagon, and the state department as well as congress. we also have international perspectives from the united nations and statements from foreign leaders. our web resource page where you can watch the latest videos on demand and follow tweets from journalists on the ground. go to c-span.org/ukraine. >> the senate returns monday at 3:00 p.m. eastern. they will debate several of president biden's federal reserve nominees. including lisa cook, who if confirmed, would become the first black woman to serve on the fed board. the house is back wednesday at

2:00 p.m. eastern. they may take up president biden's supplemental request for military aid for ukraine if it is ready for floor action. live coverage of the house is on c-span, the senate on c-span2, online at c-span.org, or with our video app. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these television companies and more, including comcast. >> you think this is just a community center? no, it is way more than that. >> comcast is partnering with a thousand community centers to create wi-fi centers so students from low income families can get the resources they need. comcast helps provide c-span as

a pup service along with these other cable television companies. >> french voters go to the polls this week. up next, the french president emmanuel macron and challenger marine le pen go head to head presidential election debate. the two talked about the country's response to the war in ukraine and marine le pen's association with the russian bank. the run-up presidential election is set for sunday. topic, looking at the club, you are about the same speaking time, we can move on to relations. international relations, ukraine, independent recognized european country was invaded by russia. what should france do? how far should france go to help? emmanuel macron. >> first of all, i think you are

quite right in mentioning first what is happening here in europe and the fact that war is raging once again on the continent. times are very serious indeed. russia has decided to strengthen its offensive over the next few hours. few days. it will be an increased offensive in eastern ukraine, on the donbass, on mariupol. this will lead to human disasters, as we have already witnessed in a number of cities. france and europe, as we have been doing from the beginning, must support ukraine, support to resist -- to give ukrainians defensive equipment and fighting equipment to make sure tf does not fall. we have to also support them financially. i also welcoming the ukrainians,

the 5 million ukrainians which have left the country and gone across the country. look, i think we need to do more today. and to stay true to that course. and we must make sure as i have been trying to do from the beginning that there is no escalation and that the war does not spill over. we have therefore to tighten our grid with the allies and europeans, and we need to have other countries on board. which is why i have been speaking with china, with india, with the gulf states to make sure that everyone understands the choices being made by russia is a disaster for ukraine but also russia itself. this is why it is important to have a strong europe. a europe that is strong on defense. which is where we over the last five years have invested to have a strong army and armed forces in line with the budget set in the white paper.

but we also want to make sure that this will ensure safety and security over the long run. because we are -- because we first introduced the cease-fire then ukraine. >> i don't think you have the same vision of what -- of the european union. the exact same question for you, marine le pen. should we help ukraine more and deliver weapons further? -- further deliver weapons? >> let me start by saying one thing, my solidarity and my absolute compassion goes to the ukrainian people. i am doing this in front of millions of viewers. russia's invasion and attack on ukraine is unacceptable. mr. macron, the efforts you have made to try on behalf of france to come up with ways and means to secure peace, your efforts

deserve our support, clearly. should we help ukraine? of course. humanitarian aid, financial aid? yes, of course. defense equipment? yes, of course. needless to say, the mayor traveled as far as the polish border and brought back to france refugees, women, children, senior citizens, brought them back home, to keep them safe. poland now has 3 million ukrainian refugees on its soil. i sounded the alert. many times. but we need to be careful, delivering weapons to ukraine could turn france into a co- belligerent, that is a concern. i agreed with all the sections

-- sanctions taken against russian oligarchs, but the only sanction i did not agree with is the ban on imports of russian oil and gas. i don't think that's the right method. i don't think that's what will hurt russia. but i do believe it will hurt the french people very much. i do believe that locking such imports will have unintended consequences. and i hear that negotiations will begin after france loses the presidency of the eu. but the consequences will be cosmic onset citizens and businesses. i am simply hoping this -- russia can just sell its oil and gas to other countries. that was the only caveat that i expressed. but i do have one for your --

one fear, a long-standing fear of our country but also other major powers across the world, i am concerned that this will throw russia into the arms of china, that they will become such close allies in the future, that they will turn into a superpower of economically, monetarily, maybe even militarily -- this could be a huge risk for the west, for europe, and for friends. -- for france. those are my caveats. these are the concerns that i expressed. i sounded the alert, because once again, i believe we live in a complex world. . and under the circumstances, we need to look to the future both in the medium and long term. so that we do not

[indiscernible] in ways that will hurt our future. >> will you lift sanctions against russia when the war stops? will france consider letting me put in as a full-fledged partner like any other -- let vladimir putin -- consider vladimir putin a full-fledged partner like any other? >> -- when we are talking about protecting the ukrainians in our country. [overlapping voices] >> just look at the count. exactly what you've just said. is what historically you have always said. you were one of the first european political leaders in 2014 to recognize the result of a referendum in.

crimea. -- in crimea. i think since world war ii, basically, we've no longer gone along with forced annexation in europe, especially when vladimir putin himself had said everything was going to his tune. i say this because you are in fact in russia's group. in 2015, you, madam, took out a loan with the russian bank -- close to the authorities. all of this is fact. now well known. working with a number of people, who were directly related and involved in the war in syria. you are not just talking about a

leader, but your banker, when you mentioned russia. there are grave decisions to make. and neither you nor your representatives are in attendance. and that five years ago -- and it is hardly surprising that five years ago, russia interfered in the campaign to destabilize me, you are unsure what to say because you are just not going to be able to operate -- to defend french interests. >> marine le pen, you can respond to what emmanuel macron said, do you depend on the russian power of vladimir putin? >> emmanuel macron has access to all of the information provided by french intelligence services. and you know fully well that this is wrong. you know fully well that i am a completely free woman. i am a patriot. my husband -- i have been a patriot my whole life. i defend france and the

french people, no matter the circumstances. i tracled -- i tracked down a tweet, to the influence of neither that eu are russia. that was my position. that was the same about iraq. >> but ukraine without crimea, madam? >> will get to that. -- we will get to that. it did not pose that many problems. [indiscernible] hosted putin in bursae. >> i hosted my head of state, not by banker. >> versailles. >> on that occasion, you said the same thing i am saying today. that russia should show itself up to the here once again.

you said russia should spread all the way to vladivostok. what i'm saying is, that posture is now dignified. >> my saying something that's wrong? is it wrong? >> let me speak to the substance of what you said. >> i'm not coming back on anything or egging on anything. i'm recognizing that europe has -- that russia has its place in the european security picture. but is it wrong? >> yes, mr. macron. let me explain why. >> good. tell us. >> why was i first to take out a loan? >> [indiscernible] >> no french bank agreed to give me alone. at the time, you said you enacted a piece of legislation on the bank of democracy which you never implemented. why didn't you, mr. macron?

you ne-yo that this -- knew that this was a democratic cap. whereby banks get to decide which political parties support and which not to. let me tell you something. >> look, 2015 was when you took that loan out. you still have not paid it back. so it's not about the democracy banker anything other. candidates in this election did not go out and take a loan out in hungary or elsewhere. >> they were loaned the money in france. it takes a while to pay back a loan. and let me tell you, the office is extreme the stringent and their controls. there's something i want to say to you, mr. macron, there are millions of french people that over the past five years have gone to the bank to get loans to buy a car.

or mortgage a house. they don't owe you a thing. they just want to repay the loans. just like me. >> but they go take out a loan and a french bank, not a russian bank, related to the authorities, for millions, do not pay it back. >> listen, mr. macron, i cannot let you say that. >> you said that yourself. >> we repay our loan every single month. under the supervision of the campaign oversight body. >> but look, you still have not paid it back. >> it is true. we are a political party with not a whole lot of resources. but there's honor in that. >> i'm not calling you into question. there's nothing wrong with that. but there is a dependency thing there. >> the only dependency that i feel is the fact that i have to repay my love. -- my loan. >> but it was not a regular bank in russia, it was a bank close

of the authorities. just admit it. >> mr. macron, look -- >> many of your choices are linked to this relationship. i'm not holding anything against the. i'm just saying other capitalists with similar interests to you have not made the same choices but have found funding in european banks, but you made the choice, a choice that you are bound by -- imposed constraints on your political choices. >> that's not true. i will say it before and i will say it again. that is simply not true. >> you're just saying, wrong, wrong. >> french people know it. >> i, too, have loans, like our fellow citizens to buy a house or a car. but we have not gone and taken a loan out in russian banks. >> it is rather dishonest, mr. macron, to stop me from -- >> i know you are not happy with it. but it's a fact. >> -- to stop me from getting a

loan in a french bank. >> that i stop you from getting a loan in the french bank in 2015? >> i didn't have the banks. >> one crucially important question. >> i'm sure there are issues that are much more important. >> it is important to speak about the standpoint. >> european union. there is very little time left. before moving to pensions. to both of you, would you like to remain in the european union, as it is today, with the franco-german engine? mr. macron. were slightly behind. over to you. >> i've always been very clear here. are debate mainly focused on that specific issue. five years ago, 8% of your

platform was only applicable if we withdrew from the euro -- no one really knew what it was. your complain platform has not changed. you still want to withdrew from the euro. but you have not really said it. i on my part believe in the euro. and the franco german tandem. that was key to achieving something. we in france didn't have rna and vaccines. but we were pleased to have them. we manufactured them eventually and exported them for our own benefit. that was mainly due to the franco german agreement to start with. on that basis, we started establishing the background work for european defense. and i must say that i am convinced that our sovereignty is both national and european. they both work together. we will be more independent on

energy, technology, defense, agri, food, and when we speak about europe, that also means speaking about farming, you know how important farming is, for them, to take farming forward, in these times of changes. so we do need a stronger euro, a more integrated europe. and we need a franco german tandem to drive it. which is what we used to do with chancellor merkel and what we are doing with chancellor schulz. >> question, marine le pen. you see the advent of european nations on your platform that would gradually replace you. does that mean you want to exit work that you as it exists -- the eu as it exists with the franco german tandem as a driver? >> there's no european sovereignty because there's no such thing as european people.

france is a sovereign country because france has their people. symbolically. you replace the french blood by the eu flag, the eu is not a question of all or nothing, of taking everything and shutting her mouth -- our to remain a part of the european union but i wish to overhaul it radically. why? because there are a number of eu positives with which i disagree. i disagree with the raft of a free-trade agreement. where we sell german cars. while sacrificing farmers. where there is unfair competition from canada or brazil. whether they selling before chicken. i disagree with -- before chicken -- beef or chicken.

may be hundreds of thousands of workers come to our country, work there, but they are not paying taxes -- payroll taxes to france. but to their country of origin. i disagree with a the policy that you supported that reduces farming output by 10%. at a time when there a global food crisis. which will probably cause hunger strikes across the world. there are a few policies i disagree with. how come france can never defend its own interests? i've served as an mep. >> you just didn't go to the bottom of it enough. >> how come france doesn't defend its farmers? its industry? its businesses?

that is what i wish to do. once again, i want the european commission to show respect for sovereign nations, the member states, because we make social and societal choices, when we vote. we, the people of france, make choices as to the kind of society we want to live in. i believe the eu should respect that. so yes, i want to overhaul the european union from the inside. mr. macron, i didn't think that you would believe in a conspiracy theory. >> interesting thought from you. >> if i wish to exit the eu, i would say it. i don't. >> so 80% of your platform has changed. a good thing. 80% of your platform five years ago only applicable without a euro. changing the club by yourself, reducing your dues, well, at

their everyone will chip in and follow or you just will go solo. it looks like you are suggesting going solo. also, according to your program, you still want lines with russia, interesting. you mentioned the chicken. can i mentioned that france did oppose an clash -- and clash, simply because of the merit clause? when we ask something of our farmers, we want something to be done by their own farmers. which is why we stalled the negotiations. there was no commitment to the paris commitment. to biodiversity. we managed to fight against imported deforestation. set about dropping production levels -- and they agree with what you said about dropping production levels.

-- may be 5000 jobs, 50,000 posted workers. the last five years, i have been working, fighting to change europe. things that happen overnight. look at vaccines. mutual debt. these are things that have changed. i worked hard day after day on this. unposted workers we changed, the rules. so you will get equal pay for equal jobs. when i look at your program, at your manifesto, you seem to just want to do away with posted workers. he will just have to explain your hundred thousands of friends who work abroad. so this isn't going to work. if you look at the values of europe, and the rules of the european council, the council of europe, the energy market, all

of this is a bit fuzzy. you look at all this, clearly, even though it's not saying it, you want to pull out of europe. if it's not the european union, you just need to pull out of the eu. you can paint it over the way you will. but, look, it's like a shared property, you can't just change it and say that you are changing the label or the name, because you are mrs. le pen. >> i think i have higher ambitions then you do. -- than you do. >> i have ambitions, too. i am not being misleading on what i am saying. >> everybody knows what i don't want and everybody knows what i will change. and i will make those changes, together with allies. you said you have secured major advances when it comes to posted workers. that is simply not true. you make sure that fraud could

no longer happen equal work and equal pay. i believe it is a net loss remedy for our country. please let me finish. i do believe that workers, farmworkers at the preferential treatment -- get the preferential treatment. it is going to cost him less. that means other companies are forced to use posted workers as well. so as to align themselves and remain competitive. my priority is for french people to be able to work in their own country. that is why i am fighting. i believe and work. finding work. keeping your work. working in your own country.

>> time is not on our side. we have to move to the next -- >> -- what madame le pen is saying is true. for the european single market. you can't just say, repay all the taxes in france or become french. it is always the same thing. the european market is all about freedom of movement, of goods and workers. >> if i may, mr. macron, i'm sure we will discuss national preference when we deal with institutions. you are extremely european centric. >> no, i'm not. >> this is how i see france. we are a world power. not just a european partner.

we have not talked about africa. of course, we need to develop new relationships with african countries. >> but that's not abroad. >> please don't interrupt. the platforms for friends's -- friends's -- france's influence on platforms all around them. your vision -- because in your vision, france has become a continental country. no, where a global power -- we are a global power. when it to renew our ambitions -- we need to renew our ambitions. we need to restore our relationships. >> look, madame le pen, how interesting this is,

to look at your cynical approach. you try to explain to us that we are done with the european market. the same goes with goods. because we will have as many police as in 1980. then you're telling me that i'm shrunken and traveled and looking at my own self. the other day, you had the international affairs press conference and you did not mention africa. i have been to africa more than any of my predecessors. i value this relationship. by being honest and brave about our history, i think they are stunned by what they hear when they look at you. you want to ban the stuff in the streets. things like that. when you say you want to be

a global power, you need to be realistic. but what you are putting forward is something that is shriveled and falling back on itself and goes against the french universsality. >> >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. >> the world's is changing. media, calm. >> c-span gives you a front-row seat to democracy. >> tonight, sean penn talks about his experiences in

ukraine. then, an inside view of the modern presidency. later, the white house discusses evolving security threats. >> c-span's washington journal. sunday, we look at the political news of the day. a former ambassador talks about the french runoff election. watch washington journal. c-span, or c-span now. john the discussion with your phone calls, text messages and tweets.

>> house and senate members continue work periods this week. the senate will be back monday at 3:00 p.m. eastern. lawmakers will debate federal reserve nominees. also, lisa cook with confirmed would become the first black woman to serve on the fed board. we will have live coverage of the house. watch the senate on c-span2 and online. >> c-span now is a free mobile app. keep up with today's biggest events with u.s. congress. campaigns and more from the world of politics all at your fingertips. stay current and find scheduling

information. plus, a variety of compelling podcasts. c-span now is available at the apple store. c-span now is your front-row seat to washington, anytime, anywhere. >> sean penn and robert o'brien discussed humanitarian efforts in ukraine. he also talked about producing a documentary in ukraine at the start of the russian invasion. this event is just over hour.

>> our panelists will tell what

they know from military strategy to amazing stories of your caning resolve as well as the terrible toll of human suffering. our panel will evaluate the response of the western world and discuss a path forward. our panelists are robert c o'brien, the 20th national security advisor before that served as an envoy for hostage affairs. ambassador o'brien is the cochair of the nixon foundation. sean penn is a academy award winner and he met with lome zelenskyy before evacuating. he is known for his humanitarian efforts.

latest efforts include setting up operations in poland. finally, the fox news chief political anchor with brett bayer. ladies and gentlemen, welcome our battle.

>> i want to ask you, national security advisor's, actor, activist, humanitarian, what is the connection between the two of you? >> before i became the national security advisor i was an envoy for hostage affairs.

one of the thing president trump was known for was bringing americans who were held hostage back. among the people i was focused on was a young american journalist, a great young american journalist. he was taken hostage in 2012. i had to fight through the bureaucracy to get permission to go to syria to negotiate and try to get them home. i finally got the approval, i went to the middle east and we sent a letter, and they were not see me. then i got a call from sean, he had heard about the case, and he said let me go to syria and see what i can do. my approach was all of the above.

i have mfn -- in a fan of sean as an actor, we met with personal risk to go into syria. i thought it was a really impressive gesture on his part as a humanitarian. >> there is been a few other incidents of this where my first stop would be to talk to someone at the state department and make sure i had an existing strategy, there was one in bolivia where the state department felt the deputizing exerted pressure, the bolivians responded by being

david to goliath and it would not be valuable to continue that way. we were able to get americans brought back. you get excited when you play a small role in something like that. it became something i was looking to do. the people i talked to said you will have to talk to our boss. that is when the boss and i got together.

four days after that, what is significant about brain trauma as i had seen the relief he got from doing postop for morphine. when i turned on the news the day of the earthquake in haiti, the reports ron amputations in children. because i had existing relationships with hugo chavez, and because actors in hollywood -- i knew i would not be able to

call anyone in the united states with the regulations and an incredible man tells me they need 350,000 vials of morphine. i will get some friends and pickup truck's and delivered to the trauma center, and that happened. i remember going with the lt. col. and said will it be a problem for you if i have a box of morphine in my tent? he said we will make apologies later. >> your organization saves lives, strengthens communities affected by or vulnerable to crisis. obviously, ukraine is in that position. i want to talk about your past

connection with ukraine, and as national security advisor before that, and how you look at that country before this latest crisis. >> 2014 when i was an observer, and i recall this is after the maiden protests when the ukrainians throughout the russian government, and for the first time will have democratic elections. i went with a group of former u.s. officials, democrats, republicans, former members of congress. we went to make sure the elections were free and fair. in one incident they were checking the ballot boxes and there was a lady who came to vote, had her daughter with her with a ukrainian flight.

i said monitoring your daughter? she said i wanted to bring her so i can see that you can vote for her own leaders. my whole life was under soviet rule. now we are seeing their spirit, coldness. >> as national security advisor, you dealt with the region and putin. he sat just down the table in libya talks in berlin with mike pompeo. your assessment. >> is a cordial guy. soft-spoken.

he believes the biggest geopolitical disaster of his lifetime with the collapse of the soviet union. his goal is to rebuild the russian empire. he has troops in georgia, is taken parts of moldova. he invaded crimea. he said this is something we haven't seen since germany and austria. if you appease dictators, give them a little bit of land, that

will save them. we work hard and there are a lot of folks in the pentagon that say we cannot give the ukrainians missiles to defend themselves, i felt and the president felt it was just the opposite. it was those javelin missiles in the early days of the crisis.

>> see the resilience and fight, may have surprised them. >> the president echoes, we thought what an interesting story would be. at that time we had a contact, we made our case we felt we could tell a story that was anchored and could eliminate these countries and ways it had

not have previously been. we began a zoom conversation. one was not able to travel to the other. that is what put it off. we picked it back up and went in november, traveled through the country. we're going to involve an existing board of conflict and then an occupation and the big whacker scandal was going on. the president was not able to see us. we recovered musicians, cultural things.

by that time, the tensions have begun. in november we had known this was starting to be an issue. then, the tensions were building to the point they are at today. i started getting phone calls from my partners in crime saying we have to get back now. maybe i looked out this time, you have to get on a plane. gonna plan -- you find out it happens when you are on the plane. stay to your schedule, this is

the day, it will be fine. we are not here to create or invent the war for this documentary. we went, we were therefore five or six days. it's very tense. when many people on the fringe right separate them from people in this room, the fringe right wanted to take off my head, i was called an enemy of the state, anything, anytime i had done anything publicly, created any level of threat, i was have

the fbi knocking on my door. at the same time, this level of caution said don't go, foreign services pulled out. don't go. so on. i was speaking the whole time. we calculated it would be fine whatever happened, sure enough, the first time i met president zelenskyy was the long agree to,

we would bring a camera and say this is the way we will do it. we had that meeting, here he was , all of the elements are in place for the potential invasion, he certainly was prepared for that, but i don't think anybody wanted to give up what would've happened the next morning the russians invaded, the next time i saw him he was in camo in the world has changed. >> at that time, you know the buildup is happening, you are talking to people i do know the communications. you know he is going to go.

i was talking to colleagues in washington and they said tell him not to go. stay in close touch. robert parson is a terrific guy. it's his job to get sean out. i counseled him not to go, he went anyway. the foundation of the legend. it is something we talked about earlier, what we are watching is very unique. we are watching a legend born. we don't know how it's going to play out, but we are watching it in real time. social media, interviews, we watching someone who has urged

the united states, safe passage. he laid out what this is, this is good versus evil. they don't want a puppet government, and they're willing to fight for freedom. president zelenskyy is willing to go out with his people. he is not meeting from behind. he is at the front. made a mistake early on, did not work out well for davy crockett.

try to come up with a better analogy, going with charles de gaulle. zelenskyy is there, is inspiring people, sean and my politics cannot be more different but we are good friends and that is the great thing about america and how it used to be, we have grown up with friends and anson uncles trying to do the right thing for freedom. that is the kind of friendship sean and i have. in this crisis, i spent a lot of time on the stump, we want to take back the house in the fall. that is something sean does not want to happen, but when i go out at these events, everyone is

pulling for the ukrainians. i think sean has seen it on the progressive side, the democrat side, this is something uniting the american people because they are watching folks just like us, fighting for their lives, their freedom, against some bad actors who want nothing more than because they have a bigger country and more might, at least it looks that way on paper. they're just going to invade their country and take it over. that's not how we do things. >> i want to get back to the unity and mission. those early days where you are finally getting a decision where

you have to stay or go. >> i would like to circle back to that and continue on the unity thing. as robert was saying, i would wager in this room there is an incredible amount of unity on the issue of the ukraine, i believe that what we owe ukraine is a unity that goes beyond that. in many cases it's the more sophisticated people who say there is nothing to be gained by trying to reach across the aisle. if there is anything we can do not a betrayal of you rain that is taking the opportunity of their ration, stop being cynical

about the possibilities that we can understand ideas in so many cases, profiling that makes it a semantic schism and that there are so many things we can do as a country together. we have become so divided. going to ukraine, more than anything else is the impact of what we have been missing. it is something to realize what we have been missing with the everyday feeling about life. >> there are elements of both parties say why is this in our national interest, why should we

push this envelope, why should we possibly face world war iii with a nuclear armed russia. there are elements of both sides, progressives and conservatives who say that. what do you say to that? >> a lot of this is, what if ukraine loses? look at what they have lost, the children killed, the women raped and mutilated, all of the brave soldiers, men, women and children who are fighting for the same dream that we share. the better question is, what if russia wins? nuclear war, god knows, there could be nothing more horrifying. yet, those questions exist, they are in hands.

many hands. we have two problems. if we want to get them out of anyone's hands, look at the budapest memorandum and say the gradients gave up nuclear weapons, president clinton and yeltsin stood there, and what happened? the russians are invading and nobody is helping. a lot of tax dollars are going into javelins and stingers and other aspects of this, but without the united states direct presence, these aviation assets, that's putting nuclear war off to another day.

i think we have to operate by enforcing and leaving as much as we can, we have to get in there and do the right thing and not be a nation that succumbs to intimidation and fear. >> some great points. one of the great moments was the end of the cold war, poland,

that will probably be one of the good outcomes that we are going to strengthen nato. they were hoping that the germans and italians and but it includes sweden and finland, capable countries, they play in the arctic. that's one of the keep in mind,

china, he wants taiwan. taiwan is the geopolitical court in the champagne model. the navy, the army runs rampant across the pacific. g thinking wants taiwan desperately for his own glory and for the geopolitical advantage. he's watching ukraine. he is going to go after taiwan.

his watching military equipment get funneled into ukraine. his watching the ukrainian people fight to keep their freedom. this crisis goes far beyond europe. if we can cut pollutant and the economy off and fully decouple the russian economy from the free world, that is something china can afford. if china can't export to the u.s., china is in real trouble.

there are levels of consequences to how we respond. >> we were hoping to get president zelenskyy on the skype. still meeting with dignitaries and may pop in. because of the respective both of these interacting, he wanted to get and be a part of this. bear with me. you're making the decision

whether you're going and not going. you have impressed him. you have to make a call. >> once the invasion started, what happened was my colleagues in the -- we, i refer to it as where we met with him, it's probably a public secret. where we met with him was in such a place where we would not know if they turned into night. we would not know if other organic sounds, so we went in and daylight, the recommendation

was we don't take the car back to where we are staying, two-mile walk. it was a great way to process the conversation. the city was under air raid, we knew rockets that had for sure -- we were trying to sort what we had seen, what it meant, we took this long walk back to the hotel, quietly, slowly. there was a television blackout, everyone was in a makeshift bomb shelter.

went down there, talked about what was happening. we sat together and try to measure, not so much not getting ahead of oneself, what the

information was on the ground, i was calling robert. >> we have a clip from that moment. you are on the phone. take a listen. [video clip] [indiscernible] [laughter] >> you talked to him.

lost in translation. there are some wonderful people in the state department, this is nonpartisan work and i stay in touch with them, i let them know what to happening. he has to get out, outside of kyiv. surround the presidential palace. the administrative building.

early on, the plan was going as russians hoped it would. it was someone close who said get out. full tank of gas, water, a wad of cash. drive about 60 miles from the polish border. have to go, have to go now. >> real-time conversations with various reasons had to make sure

they did not get stuck for six weeks, hunker down, had obligations elsewhere where they felt there could be more value-added. it was what we thought was very good information. someone in leadership who needs to be at the frontline and needs to get out of the encircled area , it can be someone like me to go back and process this footage , anyway i can help get light on the thing, for any reason. that next day after that clip,

we are talking, security consultants, saying our information is there, and he thinks the best time to leave is 10 minutes ago. i was only hoping he had a weapon. i said ok, i think you're going to go. had we left an hour later, the same people said pack your things, get into the car. give us one hour, and it's the same way they took us. one hour in the first part of the drive, an hour later it took

11 hours, and what is normally a 7 hour drive was for us a 25 hour drive because we came towards the main road. the bridge got blown up, now you don't know where you are plotting to get to. he said fuel is very important. it became its own odyssey. this incredible experience of what these people represent. i went back to ukraine a couple of weeks ago, now we are operating inside and outside, hoping it would add up to

something of value. >> you talk about him is this figure stepped up, a few weeks ago i interviewed president zelenskyy, talking to people around the world. is he fearful? take a listen. [video clip] >> tension has been key to the resistance strategy. what happens when interest wanes? are you worried the west has a short attention plan? >> it's a problem.

you will see how dictators will change. it will not be the last war in the world. it will be the first. >> he said that in english, saying if you don't stop them now, they are going to continue. just got word, he is still meeting with terry's, but this is a leader who is remarkable. >> absolutely. in responding to that and

circling back, it's only hindsight being a lesson for us now. certainly, there is a great case to be made that had we exercised and saving a lot of lives. the initial and logical thought was if prudent invaded, it would be to take advantage of the winter and how energy would break the back of the ukrainians and others. now we are in the warmer days, and this is the moment to offer in anyways necessary so maybe we ride a bike.

i think a real shutdown, it was one of the first things i talked about, and putin is in a position of being humiliated. the sanctions i believe would have an impact and stop this from happening. >> there was back-and-forth about domestic leadership, how parties talk about it. what people don't understand is this sanctions regime. how this is not affecting russia, gas companies are making more money, the price of gas is up. why aren't these sanctions fighting and stopping putin?

>> it's called the swift system, the way banks communicate with each other. we put sanctions on the russian central bank which prohibits them from operating in dollars. oil and gas sales are all in dollars. we exempted oil and gas, women's the latest thing -- [laughter] the only thing was exempted. we had this odd situation where putin continues the war, as the price of oil goes up, putin and his cronies, one of whom is a

former chancellor of germany, those guys make a ton of money. he is making more money now after sanctions and he was making before. unless we are going to cut off the oil and gas sales, the war is not going to end. we need our allies to contribute, we can cut off ourselves, most of our allies are on board. unfortunately, the germans had nord stream 2, refused to pay 2% for nato, the ones that have the cozy relationship with russia, it's hard for the germans. they have made some good steps recently. they have made some good,

vladimir putin will have plenty of money. there now in mali, africa, he will have all of the resources we have to cut off oil and gas sales. people wanted to give him a ladder, he is showing as this invasion continues. >> you think ukraine can win this.

>> when we do something like this, with cameras, we all recognize there is a legacy, i wager everything. when that tape is played, the ukrainians are going to win, and but we are going to be doing is say how many lives will be lose to win that fight. that is the calculation right now. >> why do you think it's this that unifies the progressive side and conservatives? i talked about the differences, but there is also a lot of unity. why do you think it's this? >> as we talked earlier, it is commonly considered that there

is little ambiguity to this conflict. the other thing that is significant that their skin is not brown and black. the shape of their eyes is not different from ours. what is significant and powerful about that is because of the lack of ambiguity of the mission, the mission for democracy, the fight for the freedom to dream, this can be the example that we can apply to so many other bases that we have neville -- never been able to break that wall of our own, the unfamiliarity

but if there were no cameras, senators would have rewriting. i don't know if you would want that. there's a lot of people -- you angered a lot of people on that committee. >> when i was in the navy, -- kept me sane. [indiscernible]

he had a bad habit. he had a big appetite, and he would rummage in the rations. one day, pete got into the medic's bag, the morphine. it got the better of him. when a monkey cries, lord, i tell you, sounds like a child.

they said lieutenant, the problem with loving something too much is that you cannot do what needs to be done. she's not a monkey, john. she's your wife. >> all right, john mitchell, that does not look like you at all. [laughter] how about that? that's transformation. talk about this program. >> the word to me is resilience. julia roberts had worked with a filmmaker on a project called "homecoming," and they had come to this project about watergate. it started as a podcast.

what's fascinating about it, as a kid -- i don't even remember why, but i was eating up the watergate footage. so i knew all the public stories. i did not know much about the things going on behind the scenes in their lives. the crisis that it meant to the country in so many ways. it was hysterical. the total incompetence of the plumbers. it was not anything we had seen out loud with so many extreme characters with extreme flaws

pulling the chains on it, and yet, also people who, like us, loved their spouse, were concerned about their personal lives. so it was a really accessible way that young people in particular, which i think when any of us do anything, we think, what can we offer them that we previously failed to offer them? it is a great way to step into that historical lesson. it is incredibly timely. as it turned out, a lot of themes related to what that time meant for the united states and what is going on today. julia and i had several times where we wanted to work together on several things, and it took until this one that it all worked out, so we all went and jumped and did it.

>> how long did it take to make it? >> i think the first couple times, it's about seven hours in the chair. then like a pit crew getting the team outfitted, it got down to about four hours every morning. that will tax the mind. >> well, looks great. listen, thank you so much for doing this today. when does the documentary come, do we know? >> the documentary itself was a pretty fluid thing. if we feel we have a piece of footage that somehow furthers -- this is -- there is a moment i don't know if we are going to put it in, there was a moment i was talking with somebody who

works with the president. and people will, you know, criticize me as making a pro-uganda propaganda film, and i just found myself looking into the camera and saying, i hope so. this is not -- we are not -- this is not without bias. we are clear about the position this film is going to take, but i think we would like to tell a full story, but we will release something -- if we stumble on a piece of something that we think tells the mission, we will air it. in the meantime, we plod away. >> what is next for you? >> well, we will see what happens in november. [laughter] by the way, i would like to see mr. mccarthy as speaker and mr. mcconnell continue as leader.

[applause] >> thank you so much. [applause] [speaking foreign language] ♪ >> c-span has unfiltered coverage of the u.s. response to russia's invasion of ukraine, bringing the latest from the president and other white house officials, the pentagon, and the state department, as well as congress. we also have inter-night of -- international perspectives from

the united nations and statements from foreign leaders all on the c-span networks, the c-span now mobile app, and c-span.org/ukraine, our latest resource page where you can watch videos on demand and follow tweets from journalists on the ground. >> c-span's "washington journal." every day, we are taking your calls live on the air on the news at the day, and we will discuss policy issues that impact you. sunday morning, we look at the political news of the day with charlie cook, founder of the cook political report, and former french ambassador to the u.s. talks about the french presidential runoff election and what it means for europe. watch "washington journal" live at 7:00 eastern on c-span hour c-span now, our free mobile app. join the discussions with your phone calls, facebook comments,

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