eastern on c-span's "q&a." ♪ >> this mother's day, give mom the gift of c-span during our annual mother's day sale going on right now. save up to 30% on home decor, accessories, and apparel. there is something for every c-span fan, and every purchase helps support our nonprofit operations. c-span's mother's day sale going on right now. scan the code on the right to start shopping. host: good morning and welcome to "washington journal."

it is the end of another tax season, so it is time once again to look at how the internal revenue service is doing. every year, someone is frustrated with the irs, which is responsible for collecting the nation's taxes. the covid-19 pandemic stressed the already unpopular irs's resources even thinner and made it more difficult for the agency to process it's more than 100 million individual tax returns. . how did tax filing go for you this year? that is our question for you this morning. what is your experience with the irs this tax season? we are opening up special lines. that means if you owe the irs, if you had to pay in this year, we want to hear about your experience at (202) 748-8000. if you got a refund or your refund is still in the mail from the irs, we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8001.

now, if you filed an extension or maybe you don't make enough money to file taxes, or for some other reason, you don't for the first two categories, we still want to hear your opinion. your number will be (202) 748-8002. keep in mind, you can always text us at (202) 748-8003, and we are always reading at social media, facebook and facebook.com/c-span, on twitter @cspanwj, and you can always follow us on instagram, @cspanwj . once again, tax filing has already ended for this tax year, and we want to know what your experience was with the irs. now, the "washington post" columnist michelle singletary wrote about what it looked like for people filing with the irs this year, and i want to read you a couple of paragraphs from her column.

"with hours to go before monday's midnight tax filing deadline, the irs online account system was down. a message was posted for users that said, "we are sorry. due to increased traffic, this service may be temporarily unavailable," and no, that was not my typo for the word "increased." they misspelled "increased." they inevitably produce an error, providing a metaphor for the way we taxpayers feel, overwhelmed, frustrated, and mad as hell. that typo symbolized a tax filing system that is faulty, with the u.s. shouldering an enormous workload. once again, that is from michelle singletary and the "washington post." on thursday, talked to congress

about tax filing including the ongoing issue of processing paper returns. here is what she had to say. ♪ >> 2021 is the most challenging year taxpayers ever experience. millions of taxpayers were confused, frustrated, and still waiting for the refund. taxpayers who call the irs's toll-free line for the refund, only 11% of the time are the calls answered, and this year, the ability to speak with an irs employee, unfortunately, is not much better, and thousands of businesses are waiting to receive the employee retention credit and other benefits. although the irs "where's my refund" tool hit over 300 million hits so far this year, the tool, unfortunately, was unable to answer or provide useful information for those whose returns were hitting processing delays.

yet, there's hope to face a change in status, though for millions of taxpayers, they are still waiting. so a combination of office closers, and adequate staffing, and a need to divert resources from our core work to administer three rounds of the stimulus payments, the monthly child tax payments, and more creative an and balance between the workload and the ability to do the work. we need to get current on the inventory and out of the whole it find its self end. the irs needs to be in a stable condition, and perform its core mission, which is the annual filing season. when i found my report, i said paper is kryptonite, and the agency is buried in it. i want to elaborate, because

paper remains at the heart of the agency's challenges and processing tax returns and correspondence. for context, the irs receives almost 170 million individual income tax returns last year, and about 90% were filed electronically. if there were no problems, it was quickly processed, and any refund that was due was paid under 21 days. this filing season, electronic returns are being processed quickly, but paper is different. irs still transcribes returns line by line, number by number. last year, the irs receive about 17 million individual paper returns, and those processing delays are now running up to 12 months. host: natosha serin, who is the irs's counselor for tax policy implementation came out with a statement on the 18th of april,

talking about some of the problems that the irs has been having, and i want to read that statement to you. ours is a tax system that takes the average american 13 hours to file. it is a tax system with a gap between what is owed and what is collected that is estimated to be $600 billion annually. the prescription for the agency going forward is clear. the irs needs a stable, long-term funding. $80 billion over the course of the next decade will finally give the irs the capacity to modernize and invest in a 21st century work hours. the result will be much smoother experience for the american taxpayer, where filing is easier and processing is automated. it will be a fairer system with the agency able to collect from top earning innovators who currently skirt."

that was from natasha sarin. we want to know your experience with the irs. did you file a paper file? did you pay someone else to file for you? did you get stuck, like michelle singletary said? let's start with rick, who is calling from atlanta, georgia. rick, good morning. caller: good morning. ho how are you doing this morning? ? host: i'm doing well. go ahead. caller: people think if you get a refund, you don't pay taxes, which is obviously not true. we all pay taxes. i think a lot of people who are paying over $1 trillion,

working, think that they are not paying taxes. that is not how it works. host: if you got a refund, that means you paid too much in taxes. that is the only reason you got a refund. caller: yeah, of course, and i am just amazed when i listen to radio and talk shows how many misunderstand. host: did you have to file taxes this year? caller: of course. i have been working in corporate america at a lower level for the last 30 years. host: do you do your own taxes, or do you have someone fall for you? caller: no, we have been using turbotax for the last 20 years, just because it is already set up and is convenient. host: so what was your experience like with turbotax this year? i am a turbotax man myself, so -- but for the first time this year, i paid someone to do mine. caller: well, your situation is

probably more contract. mine is very simple. the kids graduated from college, and, you know, it is pretty much the simple tax form, i think there are, like, 30 questions. host: ok. let's go to john, who is calling from homer ville, georgia. john, good morning. caller: good morning. i have been paying taxes for 70 years. what i do is in late march, i take them to my accountant. we sit down and go through them. i organize them. it takes about 15 minutes. she filed electronically. i've never gotten a refund.

that is ok. we have got to support and pay for the government we have. i do what she recommends and tells me to pay, and that is the way i want it. i have never had any problems with the irs. host: now, john, what industry do you or did you work in? for example, my father is a farmer, so every year, we had to go through all the farming stuff to figure out what was a deductible and what was not. it took us more than 15 minutes. what industry did you work in, and did that make it more difficult for you to do your taxes? caller: now, i have a really stable income. i was a lawyer for about 10 years, was a judge for about 30 years. i have a trust fund. and that is my income. so it is relatively easy to

calculate. i mean, i don't know how it is to be an accountant, but, frankly, i took one form one year, they sent to me -- if i do, my accountant is going to go with me. host: that was literally going to be my next question, john, have you always done your taxes by yourself, or have you always use your accountant? caller: when i was in law school, my uncle was irs district commission, and i struggle with tax law, so i had a professor who worked at a large law firm, and he specialized in tax law. i told him, if you will give me a d, which was a passing grade, and that is a mandatory subject, i will never prepare my taxes

again -- or ever! at the time, i was a student. but i held up my promise. host: ok. let's go to beau, who is calling from sylvester, georgia. beau, good morning. caller: good morning. good morning. host: go ahead, beau. caller: the problem i have is with the tax code. people like me, the middle class people, earning money, we do not have a lot of money to pay accountants, and we have to figure it out ourselves. as far as i'm concerned, the tax law is very oppressive to people like me, and it is complicated. and there are corporations who don't pay hardly any corporate income tax. they have had this law for almost 100 years coming to me, it is well beyond its use. may need to come up with a better tax system that will help people like me, middle-class people, so you can be out there

in the world and not be 30 and figure out how to pay this arcane, bureaucratic system. that is my position. thank you. host: all right, let's go to jody, who is calling from fort bragg, north carolina. joey, good morning. caller: hey, good morning. , jesse. i did my taxes back in february, and the accountant that i would get a refund for, it was like 2006 to, and then i'm waiting for my refund, checking my bank deposit every day commanding a counter came back and said no, we have it wrong, you owe $3000. so i don't know where the screwup is. i'm retired military. i'm only making about $50,000 a year, so, yeah, i don't know, i

guess i make my check out to brain-dead biden, and see if he catches it. hey, i've got a question. the democrats are saying african-americans aren't -- they can't get voter i.d.'s. i guess they're not smart enough. how the hell do they do their taxes? can you tell me? host: all right, let's go to didi, who is calling from sturbridge, massachusetts. didi, good morning. caller: good morning to you, and thank you for taking my call. i don't have a problem with my own taxes, but my brother passed in 2018, and as i am required to, i filed a tax form for him, and it was for a refund of about $1500, not terribly significant, but i have yet to receive either

notice or any word as to when i might receive that refund. i had it done by professional tax preparers, and after a year, i said i have not gotten it, do you mind writing a letter to them, which they did. and it has been crickets. i am wondering, is there some other route i could take to find out about this? host: i would suggest, didi, maybe calling the irs directly, but i will read a story to you in just a second that shows that the irs itself is having all kinds of problems. but i would suggest calling the irs directly. caller: is anybody working? i thought with the pandemic, everybody went home, because i have tried calling, but you just never get through to anybody. it is hold old, pulled for 30, 40 minutes, and finally, life goes on. i appreciate it. i will look for that.

but there is no other place to go or any third party that can help a person that has not received a refund after many years? host: maybe we will have somebody from the irs listening to this, and they can call in and help us, to answer that question. let's go to a story from cbsnews.com that talks about where the irs is right now because of the pandemic. so here is the story from cbsnews.com. "the irs is dealing with a backlog of unprocessed returns and unanswered calls as it heads into the end of this year's tax filing season. in a report to congress last week, the irs acknowledged only about 20% of callers have been getting through to live irs agents at times this month. in 2021, just 11% of calls were answered. the irs estimates that more than 3 million tax returns are still being processed from 2020 one.

budget cuts and covid disruptions have shrunk staffing to less than 80,000 people, the same level it was nearly a half-century ago. while roughly 10% of taxpayers still filed on paper, which the national taxpayer advocate calls the agency's kryptonite, often the people processing the paper are the same ones who answer the phones. on average, our hold times can range anywhere between 30 minutes and 40 minutes. irs chief officer corbyn told cbs news's scott mcfarlane, what we see is problem because of covid and reduced tax forms, but we don't see the irs getting many breaks to taxpayers who have to file taxes and owe the government." once again, we want to know what

your experience is with the irs this tax season. if you end up owing the irs, we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8000. if you got a refund, we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8001. if you don't fit into either one of those categories, but you still want to talk, we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8002. let's look at some of the tweets from some of our government officials about the end of this tax season and what they are saying about the tax system here in the united states. here is one tweet from d.c. delegate eleanor holmes norton that says, "as d.c. residents, who pay more federal taxes than the residents of 23 states, rushed to the mail to check from the irs yesterday, i called on the senate to end taxation without representation to pass the d.c. statehood bill." here is a tweet from judy chu who says, "i am proud to join

senator warren in origin the irs to stop targeting low income americans with audits just because it is cheaper we need major investments in an wordsmith funding so the irs can take on the tax eating of diet rations and the ultra-wealthy. here is a tweet from senator elizabeth warren. "lower income americans are audited more than others." here is a tweet from senator bernie sanders. "if you paid one dollar and federal income taxes, you paid more taxes than at&t in 2021, tesla and 2020 one, amazon in 2017 2018, nike in 2020, fedex in 2020, dish network in 2020, elon musk in 2018, jeff bezos in

2007 and 2011, carl icahn in 20 and 2017. yes, it is time to tax the rich." and one final plea from senator ted cruz that says, simply, " abolish the irs." we want to hear your experience with the irs this tax season. let's go to benjamin, who is calling from orlando, florida. hello, benjamin. caller: hello. i am retired irs after 27 years. i have a solution or partial solution. it has been underfunded. what we need to do is bring some retired people back to get rid of the dual compensation labor, which means it is federal people getting a double bill. host: hold on for a second, benjamin. tell us what you mean by that dual thing that you were talking about. slow down.

a lot of us don't understand that. caller: ok. federal law says you cannot come back from retirement, and assuming which retirement system you are under, you have to suspend your annuity payment. i'm willing to do that, come back, but i'm not going to give up my pension for the period of time that i am there. you have got someone with 27 years irs experience that really need the job. it is a public service you can do it for two years to get the backlog. . that is what i'm talking about. host: who would be responsible for getting rid of that? is that something congress would need to do? is this something just for the irs, is this for the president? who would be responsible for even talking about this and possibly getting? caller: the commissioner of the irs would have to seek permission for the ability to be able to grant a dual compensation labor. host: now, benjamin, would you

be willing to go back to work at the irs and get this backlog out of the way? caller: yes. i owed $50,000 because i had a lot of dual comp tax situation because i sold a bunch of rental properties this year, so i don't need that money, but i don't want to be penalized for coming back. host: ben, we read a lot of complaints about the irs. as someone who used to work for the irs, or any of these complaints legitimate? caller: well, first of all, if you work for the irs, you are used to complaints that don't feel legitimate. but sure. there are payments for situations, somebody being pushed out the door, i had irs got responsible -- irs got responsible for doing it. you need more people. you need to train. a simple solution, rehire on a

temporary basis. host: who's fault is it that the irs does not have enough people? is it that the irs is not hiring? caller: ours! host: do they not have the money to hire? where does the money lie? caller: congress. host: congress not giving the irs enough money to hire enough people? caller: correct. yes. host: ok. we have an actual graph here that talks about how many people the irs has on staff, that i will bring up as we go through our next caller, because we want to see how mini people of the irs has come and the number has slowly been shrinking, especially during the pandemic. while we get ready for that, let's go to christopher, who is calling from englewood, new jersey christopher, good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call.

i would first like to say i enjoy c-span and "washington journal." i had a remarkable experiment with getting my refund this year, because there were tax citizens who were gracious enough, who, through a friend of mine, were able to do my taxes quickly and efficiently. and i was able to get a refund come about $200, which is not too shabby. but what was so wonderful about this was, because i had filed for direct deposit, i was able to get my refund quickly, like five days after they took care of my forms and staff. it was absolutely a remarkable joy. and i have to say, i don't normally give that kind of complement, but this was the best thing i have ever had done, and especially with people with special needs, we have to be appreciative, but they have to be taught how to do taxes, because sometimes the language

is not an easy thing to do, especially for people like myself. host: christopher, let me make sure i understood you correctly. did i hear you say you got your refund five days after filing? caller: yes, five days after filing, because it was automatic direct deposit, yes. host: wow. i can't say i have ever heard of anyone getting their refund that fast. the irs works for you, christopher. caller: they do, especially for people who have disabilities. but they need to correct the language, because sometimes it is confusing for people on the spectrum and everything. that is what we need to do on the forms and everything. that is why i think it is very important. host: well, representative jamie raskin come on thursday, in a hearing for the irs, talked about that lack of staffing we were talking about with a caller a couple of seconds ago, and i want to bring to you when

jamie raskin had to say about the irs and it staffing here here is what representative raskin said. [video clip] rep raskin: the irs has lost more than 20 thousand place during this time period due to funding cuts. now it has many full-time employees as it did in 1974. the number of taxpayers has increased by 14% since 2010, but the number of full-time enforcement staff has decreased by 30%. nobody loves paying taxes, but what hard-working taxpayers hate the most is rich corporations and people like donald trump getting away with paying little or no taxes. it is only billionaire tax chiefs who profit from understaffing and under financing of the irs, while constituents like megan are stuck on the phone, calling 50 different times and never get a call back.

we have a fear tax system for everybody, and people can stop getting away with ripping the government off. host: let's see what some of our social media followers are saying about their experience with the irs this tax season. here one tweet that says, "the people should not have to pay taxes until operations and -- corporations and churches do." "in our high school, we were offered a class called business law. we were taught individual tax preparation. a system -- a simple form is just that. itemizing can be confusing by the language as it is written. turbotax is a tool. use it "the claim that the irs cannot keep up is nonsense. i do my own taxes and i mailing my returns. turbotax is not free for me as i make too much. iota over $11,000 in federal taxes this year. it took less than seven days

after i mailed my return for those guys to hit my checking account." "i tried to file my extension online yet forced to print and mail it i am not paying anyone to file my 2021 taxes, although now i am reconsidering because of my health care and insurance expenditures." "you pay for someone when you use turbotax for your return. we want" to know what your experience with the irs was this tax season. let's go back to our phone lines and talk to david, who is calling from golf greens, florida. david, good morning. caller: good morning. i have not really had a problem with the irs. i am retired. i file with olt.com, and it is basically consistent throughout the years, so it is easy for them to audit me. i got my refund, which is not

very much, because i am retired, but i got it within a few days. as far as the rich people, i don't know what the problem is there. obviously it is not with anything but the law, and the people that are talking about it, the congressman and death, they are the only ones who can really do anything about that. host: so, david, could you file your own taxes, or do you use an accountant? caller: yes, i file my own taxes. olt is online taxes. it is something that was recommended by the irs, i believe, atime. it does not -- they can compare returns every year, so it is easy for them to audit me if they were going to audit a quick audit on that. host: have you gotten your refund or are you still waiting on it? caller: i am not waiting on it. it was only a couple days.

i got it in a few days. host: when did you file? caller: i filed way before the deadline. host: january, february? caller: it was probably the first part of march. host: and you were able to get a quick refund. let's go to bob, who is calling from nebraska. caller: good morning. how are you today? host: i am doing great. caller: i have been filing taxes since 1957 when i joined the air force. i have always -- most of my life i have done them myself and in 1957 they allow you to use just an ibm card if you did not make much money like we did not in the air force and you just filled that out and mailed that in and that was it.

the rest of the time when i got out of the air force i did do my own taxes for many years and then with turbotax later but now i hire someone to do my taxes for me. i am retired and i have never had a problem with taxes with the irs. i rarely get refunds. i pay estimated tax and that sort of thing and do it all electronically on the computer. host: does it take longer to do it electronically or to have to go to explain to an accountant all of your different adoptions and different ways you need to file? -- deductions and different ways you need to file? caller: it took longer to do it myself than it did to get the data and give it to the

accountant. it costs you. it is kind of expensive, probably $700 for me to do it, but i do not want to do it myself anymore. i just make a list of stuff that is not sent by companies. i have mutual funds and things like that. there is other stuff i have to look up and make out and tell them but i do not have a problem with it. host: did your taxes become more complicated after you retired than they were when you were active and working? caller: no. the only thing that changed was you have to decide whether you want to file estimated taxes so you do not have to pay a penalty or not. i usually do, but that is the

only thing i do myself. the accountants would do it, but i just do it myself, not on the computer. it does not take long. guest: -- host: let's go to ed, calling from trinity, north carolina. caller: i am also a retired man in my mid-70's and i still do my taxes by hand on the kitchen table and mail them to the irs. i know i am a dinosaur and if i live long enough i probably will not be able to do that, but what i have found over the years is that generally my tax condition does not change from year to year, so the previous years' return act for a temp -- act as a template. i have found that has worked for me over the years. there are times when i have had

to get an instruction book or get on the computer and read. the only drawback now to doing my taxes myself is it takes a fairly long time to do and they are having problems processing the refund so it takes time for that. other than that, i have not had a problem with it. host: the irs says they want you to move for mailing in taxes to doing electronic filing. do you see yourself moving to electronic filing anytime soon? caller: no, i am hoping to expire before i have to do that. host: ok. let's go to frank, calling from texas. >> good morning from the queen city. i filed my taxes about february 15 and i think it took about a week for it to return. i had a prepared by someone that

i have used for the last five years. i am 84 years old, never had a problem with the irs. the problem is they wanted more funding to assess those that may owe and our republican friends have cut that so those hired to collect those taxes have decreased because republicans refused to fund it. that has been my experience. thank you very much and have a good day. host: let's go to kevin, calling from bloomfield hills, michigan. caller: good morning. i am a tax accountant.

i have been listening to various callers. the first guy talked about hiring -- bringing back the former varsity squad, if you will commit retirees and stuff. the issue i found on that point is i have been doing this for 40 years and we in my field constantly when we deal with the irs, which we used to in person, i have a good rapport on the phone with them. as a tax professional, we have a algorithm system where i have statistics to prove it. we pay for the software. i connect any time from 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. within three minutes. that issue is solved there. as far as bringing people back or hiring people such as myself,

they are not offering enough because we can make more in the private sector and another point is let's say you came in and wanted your return. i prepare your return and say, you need to direct deposit it. i suggest that because of identity theft, no loss return or refund or notices in the mail . electronic filing is the key. also, it is protection against identity theft as well. host: if you are a tax professional, which sets of americans can do their own taxes versus which ones should be coming to a tax professional? caller: the people that make,

and i put it in groups, i would say anyone who makes $75,000 could do their own tax return because they have simple forms and it is important to know that the instructions we have seen through the years that you used to be able to pick up at the library or post office are written at a sixth grade level, so it goes back to literacy. with that, if they have a sampling -- a simple filing system they can probably do it themselves. the forms are easy and written in such a way where all you need is basic reading skills and math skills. on some of the easy forms, they give reference points to where you can find it, but even on the forms they direct to websites, so people who are not computer

literate are not going to go there. the people that have businesses are not going to do it on their own. they use programs like turbotax and h&r block and that only goes so far. i like these programs because i end up correcting 50 to 100 returns were people want to turbotax. it is give and take. the key right here is funding. i heard the tweet about the irs. that is nonsense. democrats on the others, we are going to catch the tax cheats, they are going after people who are self-employed or whatever. the main sheet is you have to embrace technology. that is what they are not telling us. host: tammy is calling from ohio. good morning.

i think we lost tammy, so let's go to dennis from hudsonville, michigan. good morning. caller: good morning. go, blue. my problem with the irs is the windfall elimination provision. i am a retired professional firefighter. as such, during my career as a firefighter i did not pay social security. i worked a second job and did qualify for social security. when i retired, the irs says i am double dipping if i take my fire pension and the social security pension i have earned and therefore they are entitled to keep a percentage, maybe 65%. this probably applies niceis

was because democrats had a real plan to improve taxpayer services and increase agency accountability, but with they pr irs, $80 billion, essentially doubling the size of the agency without any plan for ensuring improvements to basic taxpayer services. i am hard-pressed to imagine why anyone would contemplate handing a massive budget increased to the irs without prioritizing a plan to increase accountability and improve text pierce services. democrats interest was handing the irs a budget increased to increase tax collections to raise revenue to help pay for

their partisan tax and spending spree. the same reason why they included a provision until widespread public opposition forced them to remove it that would allow the irs to examine the details of american bank accounts. under one version of the provision, the irs would be able to sift through the make records -- bank records of any american transactions. the irs would have been able to look through the bank records of just about every american and find out how much you spent on starbucks or your last dr. bill or that new pair of running shoes. republicans are not opposed to enhancing resources for the irs to improve taxpayer services, but any enhanced resources for the irs must be paired with serious reform, including to improve customer service and

ensure existing resources are being used optimally and promote smarter and more effective audits. host: let's see what our social media followers are saying about experiences with the irs this tax season. here's a tweet that says of course the irs wants everybody to file electronically. then the irs needs to buy everyone a computer and internet service so it can be done. there are people who simple he cannot afford this. -- simply cannot afford this. this tweet says i filed online and have several types of income. it took three days to complete together deductions, medicines, salt interests. i got a refund in five working days. on the other tweet says we tried to use h&r block. my wife decided to try her taxes. i have been filing taxes since

1979. my wife was angry i waited until the last week, so she bought h&r block and started to fill out the information. we ended up getting scammed. another tweet says i am on social security so i do not pay federal income tax but i do pay property tax in the state of florida, which has gone up but not because of biden, because of ron desantis and the radical republicans in the state. and a final tweet says, in europe taxpayers are sent out their returns. they can either pay or correct. the u.s. tax code is written by wealthy people who complicate it to me could to cheat. republicans have defunded the irs so they do not have the resources to find the cheats. we want to know what your experience was with the irs this season. if you are getting a refund, your number is going to be (202)

748-8001. if you are -- if you owe the irs your refund, the numbers went to be (202) 748-8000. everyone else, (202) 748-8002. let's go back to our phone lines and talk to marie's from boca raton -- maurice from boca raton, florida. caller: good morning. i filed my taxes in march and it is april 24 and i got a letter from the irs telling me i need to file a form which i do not know nothing about. i only do w-2 gary and i have been filing taxes since i was 16, 17 years old, so i do not know what they are talking about.

i am so confused. host: i assume you did your taxes yourself. >> i went to liberty taxes but i had tax issues in 2017. i think they got me on the radar so anything i do from this point on they tear me up. i am legitimate. i work hard every day. i even proved that was my niece by doing a dna test. i did that jerry springer thing and i proved. once i proved to them, i was able to get my taxes, but the taxes prior i did not get, so they did me wrong. even though i proved to them. i went through all kinds of everything. i got it all done and they still

never refund me from the time they audited me. host: what are you going to do now? are you going to take that letter to your tax preparer or try to handle yourself? what is the next step for you? caller: i fought them before and i will fight them again. i am going to go back to the person who prepared the taxes for me because they were the ones that submitted the information, so they are acting like i does not exist anymore but they knew exactly who i am. i met them face-to-face. i went to the office and we talked. we went through it. they said my niece has been adopted and she is no longer my knees. she came home, so she is always going to be my blood. they were like, you have a point there, but they try to

manipulate you in some kind of way but i was not with that program. i fight for what i believe in. host: let's go to david, who is calling from west virginia. caller: i did not have a bit of problem with my taxes. we filed in the first or second week of march. within 10 days, we had a refund. i have two comments. number one was about the gentleman who worked for the irs. he said they do not have enough workers and do not pay enough. i am a retired state worker but my form on the side with my brothers. when i worked for the state, i did not make a lot of money, but they -- it is the benefits you get. i know federal people get benefits same as i do. it is all the other benefits you get, not all about the pay.

about two weeks ago, i got a letter from the irs out of austin, texas stating i need to do my taxes and call them about a couple issues, so i had my taxes done through h&r block. i called her and asked her what is going on. she said i think you have a letter that someone is trying to scam you. she said disregarded. they should not send you a letter about your taxes. anyway, there is a problem. if you do it online, you have these scammers who try to scam you were hackers and all that, so why would we want to do it online? why would you not let someone do it who is capable of doing it and not have this problem? host: tom is calling from long

island, new york. good morning. caller: good morning. i came in on your program this morning when you had that video of one guy talking and i caught the tail end of what he said but the bottom line i think is people tend to demonize the rich. i do not. i wish i was rich. maybe one day i will be. there is always hope. there is that. this new tax law that they are talking about doing with taxing unrealized gains i think is a problem because when the federal income tax was first implemented it was supposedly only on the rich, like 1% or whatever it was and look where we are now. there is that guaranty down the line, who knows if that will be

put into law? so then they are going to tax the average joe on unrealized gains and then my last thing i would say would be central bank digital currencies, there is talk of moving to that and if we go that route, if we allow them to do that where everything is digitized, central-bank, digital currencies, they will know everything you do, every transaction you make. host: i think we lost tom. before we get to our last callers, the irs commissioner defended his agency before the house oversight and reform committee this past thursday. here is what the irs commissioner had to say in defense of his agency. [video clip] >> are people give a lot.

during the pandemic, those efforts have come home. the receipts for the internal revenue service were $4.1 trillion, approximately 96% of the gross receipts of the united states of america, a successful, fully functioning internal revenue service is important to the continued success of this country. we have been at the forefront of providing economic relief to taxpayers, distributing more than $1.5 trillion during the pandemic and historic economic relief and individual refunds. host: let's go back to our phone lines and talk to russell, who is calling from york, pennsylvania. caller: i am a tax preparer and i prepare taxes for the last 40 years. my suggestion for people who

wait a long time and sometimes every year to get there refund is go the other route and reduce the amount of withholding from your pay and the amount you send in estimated tax so the irs owes you instead of you owing them. host: is that like giving the federal government an interest free loan? caller: no, i would not make it that high. i would make it where either you get a refund of less than $500 or you owe perhaps $500 or so and keep it on an even keel. people i prepare taxes for that oh money, as the gentleman called before, the irs will cash

that check within a week and take it out of your bank account , but to wait for a refund of $5,000 that you certainly could use his frustrating and frustrating to the preparer and the taxpayer. host: how do you figure out exactly what the magic number is where you are only getting back or only paying in a small amount of taxes? how does the ordinary, average person figure out what the withholding number should be? caller: that is why they should go to a tax preparer to help them. host: let's talk to mark, calling from wisconsin. good morning. caller: good morning, america. i have had this problem more than once. i am an older fellow, a senior.

i send my taxes in certified mail. i have been doing that for over 30 years. this way i know somebody at the irs is signing for them. the first time, i get a beautiful letter from the irs stating thank you, i appreciate the check that you sent us but when are you going to send us the paperwork? so i contacted my congressman. he contacted the irs and i sent him the copies and they came back to the speaker of the house and told him they think the watchdog eight my paperwork. congressman ryan called me up on a saturday night personally to tell me this. last time, which was recently, i had my paperwork again lost after i sent it certified mail and they sent me back and said,

thank you for the check but when are you going to send the paperwork? then they charged me interest and penalty while they had my check, so i do not know. it is out of control. host: i am impressed to hear you actually got a call from your congressman after complaining about the irs, a direct call from then speaker of the house paul ryan. caller: on a saturday night, besides. host: did it ever get resolved? are you still fighting with the irs over this or did it ever get resolved? caller: in both cases, it got resolved. they wanted to charge me interest and principal the first time when congressman ryan was taking care of it. i talked to a nice lady from the irs in washington, d.c. and she told me this is an ongoing thing. her best friend works a couple

cubicles away from her and had to have the boss take the paperwork down because they claim she did not send her paperwork in, but the second time, and i am glad you had the irs commissioner on, because i have not received any of my stimulus funds and the reason they said i am not qualified for the stimulus funds is because i did not send my paperwork in, so i'm in the midst of writing a letter back to the nice lady in washington telling her that you lost my paperwork for a second time and what are you going to do about getting my stimulus funds? which the irs commissioner said he was giving out trillions of dollars. they get you coming and going. guest: richard is calling from glenville, georgia. >> i just got --

caller: i just got a beep on the line. i will disregard it. we have a problem with the irs sending only a partial refund and the situation was we were not qualified as far as we were concerned for the stimulus check of $2800 and would happen was we sent in our taxes on february 11 and we got letters from the irs stating that we did get the stimulus stating we did get the stimulus, so we were going to amend our forms with the amended tax form. what we called turbotax, which we have used over the years, and never had a problem, and they said the irs would correct our taxes, which they did. they sent us a letter. we agreed with the letter, to the extent that we were just

going to look for our taxes and our refund, and our refund on our taxes was only less than half of what the letter stated, so we have tried to get a hold of the irs after going through all of the computer options. they say we are busy, we cannot accept your call at this time, due to the high volume of calls, and if you call back later or call back the next day. host: well, unfortunately, we have run out of time, but we will have our open form segment later on, folks, if you want to continue to talk about the irs, stick around for our open forum segment. coming up, we turn our attention to midterm elections and key primary -- in key primaries in the next two weeks. charlie cook of the cook report

and -- of the cook political report and national journal will discuss, and then gerard araud will discuss the french presidential election. stick with us. we will be right back. ♪ >> this week, on the sea for, both chambers of congress are in legislation. the senate will come to president biden federal reserve nominations. members of the president's cabinet will testify, including secretary of state antony blinken. on tuesday, health and human

services secretary javier becerra and michael j mccord on wednesday. attorney general merrick garland on thursday. on wednesday, on c-span.org and the c-span mall on thursday at 10:00 a.m. eastern, the homeland security secretary testifies at the judiciary committee oversight hearing focusing on control of the u.s.-mexico border. watch on c-span.org and the c-span now app. saturday, c-span's coverage of the white house correspondents dinner with highlights from past dinners. then daily show host trevor noah highlights the first white house correspondents association dinner since 2018. watch this week live on the c-span networks or on c-span now , our free mobile video app.

also, head to c-span.org for schedule information or to stream video live or on-demand any time. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. >> c-span has unfiltered coverage of the u.s. response to russia's invasion of ukraine, bringing you the latest from the president and other white house officials, the pentagon, and the state department, as well as congress. we also have statements from a foreign leaders, all on the c-span networks, the c-span now free mobile app and c-span.org/ukraine, our web resource page where you can watch the latest videos on demand and follow tweets from journalists on the ground. go to c-span.org/ukraine. >> there are a lot of places -- but only at c-span do you get it straight from the source. no matter where you're from or

where you stand on the issues, c-span is america's network. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. if it happens here or here or here or anywhere that matters, america is watching on c-span, powered by cable. >> washington journal continues. continues. host: we are back with charlie cook of the cook political report and national journal, who is here with us today to talk about the campaign 2022 and political news of the day. charlie, is good to have you with us. guest: good to be here. and in person, too. host: the world is getting back to normal. guest: i hope so. host: which means we have the political season upon us. let's just jump right into it.

how would you describe the current political landscape right now for both parties on capitol hill? guest: midterm elections are almost always bad for the party in power, and what happens, typically happens is in a midterm election, if your party has the white house, it is good if they also have the house and senate, you are likely to be satisfied, complacent, may be you are disappointed they don't turn out in numbers. on the other site of the election, you hate it. you want revenge. you want to get back in power could you hate everything the other side is doing parents so you are hyper motivated. then the other slice, the 10% in the middle who are independent, don't read anyway -- either way, they are very fickle, and they tend to get buyers remorse, and they vote against the party in power almost invariably, and that is why midterm elections are the way they are.

it is, what, 30 seven out of 39 midterm elections since the civil war, and 1925 midterm elections in the senate. even down to state legislatures, it is that way. host: so democrats have the white house, the senate, and the house. the senate and the house, first of all, let's start with the senate. what does it look like for the democrats innocent? guest: well, they cannot afford to lose anything. as you know, 50/50. i would say right now, the over/under, there's a 50% chance that they will lose two or three and a 50% chance it will be better, but two or three is the most median point in the senate. in the house, i would say a net loss of 20 seats would be the

over and under in the house, and obviously five-point tip it over. it is looking pretty tough for democrats. guest: what are the vulnerable seats in the senate right now? guest: four seats they really have to worry about, arizona, mark kelly. raphael warnock in georgia. nevada, and maggie hassan in new hampshire. those are the four, it would have to be pretty horrible night for them to lose or come close to losing anything else. for republicans, it is more open seats, really come open seat north carolina, pennsylvania, ohio. one incumbent, ron johnson, in wisconsin, and there are circumstances that missouri could get interesting or something like that. host: what about the house?

are there any races in the house you are following more closely than others? guest: not really. the universe of competitive house races is getting smaller and smaller and smaller, so it will probably be fewer than two dozen in the entire senate, and there have been times where it would be, you know, 50, 60, 70, 80. but i would say any democrat that won by -- if you one by 5, 6, seven points or less, you are in trouble, or if biden won your district by less than 10 points, let's say, you should be paying closer attention. host: that is a perfect segue to talking about president biden cured we have seen the president's job approval rating, they seem to be getting lower. . every week. how does that affect the upcoming election and should we be paying closer attention to numbers this far out of the

election? guest: actually, donald trump is the only president that gained approval rating from this point to note midterm election. they almost although down at that point. my guess is that president biden's numbers are probably at about rock-bottom bottom. he is averaging 31. averaging about 41, 42. and that is a bad place to be. that means, it typically means your side is demoralized. the independents are not going to come to your side, you know, toward your way, and that usually translates to a bad number. but you live with a generic congressional ballot test, democrats or i republican for congress, those would be two, polling wise, two of the best measurements, and is that light, moderate, or heavy? host: let me take a second to

remind our viewers that they can take part in this conversation. we are going to open up our regular lines. that means that, republicans, your line will be (202) 748-8000 . 1. democrats, you can call (202) 748-8000. independents, your line is (202) 748-8002. keep in mind, you can always text us at (202) 748-8003, and we are always reading on social media, on twitter @cspanwj, and on facebook at facebook.com/c-span. right now, republicans are running ads that seem to be focused on inflation. how much will inflation be in midterm elections this year? guest: will there be any issue other than inflation? it is normal for people to vote

-- the economy to have a big, big impact on things. i think people tend to underestimate how big inflation is. the average unemployment rate has been under 6%, rounding the 6%. which means low unemployment would be 4% or less, high unemployment would be eight percent or more, so there is a four-point difference. but whether you are unemployed, underemployed, employed, retired, student, living on social security, whatever, you are all impacted by an nation -- by inflation, and it is just dramatically more kick to the extent that the biden administration, they were focused on job creation when, as the inflationary pressures started taking up, and a lot of voters say we will not have any, or it will be little, it will be

transitory, and that will be eating them alive right now. host: i want to show an ad that the republican national committee have been playing. i want to get your reaction. here is the ad. [video clip] >> housing. inflation is through the roof to how is this happened. biden said his plan would save america. pres. biden: the american rescue plan is working. >> biden said the money would go to saving jobs, fighting the pandemic, so why are americans worse off? what does the money go? broward county recently broke down on a new luxury hotel, using millions of taxpayer dollars intended for covid relief. >> democrats use covid relief fund to bank run -- bankrolled their pet projects. millions two convicted criminals and terrorists. millions for ad campaigns in d.c. now, biden wants to spend more.

higher prices, wasteful spending, no accountability. democrats are hurting hard-working americans. ♪ host: how effective are those types of ads when it comes to the midterm elections? guest: i think people feel it in their daily lives, so they probably don't need much of an ad to remind them, but it doesn't stir them up. you know, with the -- when the coronavirus hit and we are staring into the abyss, and the republican congress passed, president trump signed one coronavirus package in march of 2020, the fed with monetary policy, they are pumping money into the economy, and then when biden took over in march of 2020 one, they put in yet another coronavirus relief package and basically, to steal a line from larry summers, those who filled

the cup with too much stimulus, as a result, it created too much demand. inflation goes skyhigh. it was the cumulative impact of a lot of stimulus from different quarters, but biden and democrats, they were the ones that sort of put it over the top with the most recent of those three elements, fighting the coronavirus, in terms of stimulating the economy and the impact. host: how much does the covid-19 pandemic affect the midterm elections? can democrats still say, hey, we are still trying to get this country over the pandemic. give us a little more time. does that work at this point, or is the pandemic yesterday's news? guest: the pandemic affected all kinds of things, and then those affect the election. but i have a theory of issue

contamination, that when people get mad at a president, let's say, about one thing that is important to them, if they get really mad about one thing, it contaminates how they view that president on everything else. so no matter how great a job you may be doing on handling the russian invasion of ukraine or coronavirus or anything else, if people are mad at you on inflation, nothing else matters to you. host: which brings us perfectly to this ad that the democratic house majority pack is running to die want to run this ad and see what you think of this come from the democratic party, highlighting accomplishments. [video clip] >> two years ago, we were in crisis. the biggest single gain on record, 7.9 million new jobs, a record drop in unemployment. now democrats are tackling gas prices by releasing millions of

barrels a day, and they passed a cap on insulin. democrats are getting things done to create jobs and lower costs. house majority pack is responsible for this ad. host: if i am hearing you correctly, inflation is running all of that for democrats. guest: it is stepping on any other messaging that they are trying to do. you know, in some elections, you have got the wind at your back and you win, everything is closed, and then sometimes it is in your face, and suddenly, you lose all the close ones. you lose ones that you don't expect, that sort of thing, but you can't get any messaging through. but, you know, i think this is more of a case of maybe, you know, we hear poster say, well, democrats did not deliver what they promised, and the focus is usually on the delivery. i would argue, given how close the house and senate is committed is a wonder that they pass anything, but it was more

than overpromising then and under delivering. they had proposed an agenda that had some really, really good things that would benefit lots of people, but it is an agenda you would pass if you had 60 seats in the u.s. senate, not 50. if you had 282 members of the house, not 222. for the fdr-lbj agenda but with microscopic majority and having won the presidency for, what, by 132,000 votes in four states. they kind of overextended. host: let's let our viewers take part in this conversation. let's start with well, who is calling from portland, maine on the democrat line. will, good morning. caller: good morning. hi, charlie. you talked about federal races, but i'm wondering what you are see going on with governor races. are they going to be insulated from the biden negativity, and

what impact will be is governors races have as far as being a firewall for the democrats in the presidential race next time? guest: that is a great question. i flew out of the portland airport yesterday. it used to be the state elections -- governors, state-led legislature, attorney general of the state, that they were pretty insulated from whatever was going on nationally and federally. but we are increasingly becoming more and more parliamentary, where people are just voting straight ticket, and they are either voting or they are not voting, voting straight ticket, so that now -- now there is a very, very strong correlation, and -- between what is going on nationally and what happens in governors races, so "washington journal in your case -- so, you know, in your case, governor mills has to be very careful. if republicans are coming

out of the woodwork, if independents are in a sour mood, then she has got a problem. jared golden, he has a problem if that is the configuration. there are a lot -- let's see, five governorships that we have, that the cook political report has come five democrats that are tossup -- governor kelly in kansas, witmer in michigan, since like in nevada, evers in wisconsin, and the open governorship in pennsylvania, and then mills in maine would be the next category. there are two governorships that republicans have that are very likely to go over to democrats. that would be massachusetts, where baker is not running for reelection, and maryland with hogan. and there is in arizona, and open governorship. we see governor ducey is not running again.

brian kemp and george -- it is complicated. [laughter] host: it's complicated. guest: he has got issues coming at him from the left and the right. host: what did we learn about the gubernatorial races in america by glenn youngkin's race in virginia? did we learn anything new about what these races are going to be like in the midterm yucca guest: that is probably the answer i should've gotten to in the last question. it had to do with motivation. and the thing is, you know, terry mcauliffe was trying to come back to the governorship. he had been a good governor. he did not make any big mistakes or anything. it was about democrats being down, because president biden -- numbers have been dropping since july of last year. and then a textbook example of how to wash this line -- walk

this line where you are not embracing former president trump, where you are his enemy, but at the same time, you are not pushing away from him, so that you antagonize his supporters. so for any republican running in a competitive state or district, i would say watch how glenn youngkin handled it, because he financed it very well -- finessed it very well. it is a thin line to walk. any democrat who was in denial about having problems, the virginia governor's race, and the new jersey" governors race, and what happened in the legislature, should have been a wake up all. host: since we brought it up, let's talk about it now. how does former president donald trump affect these midterms? guest: udo, it is interesting, and i don't know if it is him

being off of twitter or what, but he is not part of the day-to-day story. he is not driving news ratings as he was before. i think there is a core element, just to make up a number, one-th of republicansird -- one-third of republicans that would be loyal to him, no matter what. but i think the others, let's call it two-thirds, that like what he have said or his general positioning. i think the enthusiasm for him among them has come down. i think you will not see trump people winning every single public and primary, the way it might have worked a few months ago. so he is not becoming unpopular with the republican base, but the enthusiasm level among many is coming down some, that they might think, you know, i would like to have somebody who is kind of like him but maybe not with the personality, you know, maybe not with the, sort of,

the behavioral things. whoever wins the republican nomination in 2024, presidential, they will be somebody with a trump messaging on the republican side, whether it is him or whether it is not. host: let's talk to jim, who is: from oce we go, new york -- is calling from oswego, new york, on the republican line. caller: good morning. it is actually owego, without the s. i want to remind our viewers, did you work as a democratic staffer at one point? guest: i have been an independent since i started the newsletter in 1984. caller: you are hardly independent. prior to the presidential elections last year, you said the presidential race would be

called the night of the elections. you tried to discourage republicans from voting, and the fact is, they had to stop voting in several states in order to get all of these illegal ballots in to elect biden. and i really, honestly think they are trying to do the same thing. they are trying to give the press the republican vote, because there's going to be a way larger wave than 20 seats in the house of representatives. the senate will probably be pretty close, but honestly, i think you are being very dishonest and trying to suppress the vote. and i don't think your record on the presidential election last year was very good at all. guest: well, it is interesting, if somebody was going to be mad at me for depressing the vote, i would think it would be democrats right now, because we are looking at something that is

probably very much of a wave year in favor of republicans, and the only reason why it won't go to 40 or 5060 seats, will likely go, is that there are fewer competitive races than there used to be, plus republicans won 13 in the last election, so they are starting from a bigger, from a larger base. but i don't know, sounds to me like there is some doubt in the caller's mind to this day as to who won the 2020 presidential, but at midnight, i think most of us kind of new what was going to happen, and just to go back to the caller, show me a judge, show me a prosecutor who has found any significant amount, i mean, any amount of significant voter fraud that would have changed any outcome whatsoever. i mean, these are conspiracy theories.

but, you know, it is interesting, you are using the attack by the side that is about to lose an election, and when you say "this side is probably going to win it," it is kind of weird forgetting attacked for trying to depress their vote. i don't understand the caller. well, i think i do understand where he is coming from, but i think sometimes people are looking for a cheerleader, they are not looking for an analyst. host: well, polling and posters have been attacked over, i think, the past decade now, as we have seen in presidential elections, midterm elections, gubernatorial elections. defend your industry right now, because it has not gotten a good wrap over the last decade or so. guest: well, i'm not a poster now. in a previous life, i was one, but i use them. but there are issues in the polling sector that we have

known about for a long time, but the 2016 and 2020 presidential, yeah, there were some problems there, but not quite as many as people think. 2018, the polling was dead on. i mean, it was dead on. it was the two that president trump's name was on the ballot, those were the two. and it typically was states that you knew president trump was going to win, states that you knew biden was going to win, they went democratic. and what happened was it was really close, and it broke one direction. that is exactly what happened. and in 2016, the presidency was settled by 78,000 votes in three states. this last time, it was 132,000 votes in four states. those are close elections. but the general direction for

many states, for the most part, they typically go the way the polls say and were expected. but polling is an inexact field, but it is not nearly as far off -- and i think a lot of people equate in presidential elections the popular vote with the electoral college. no national poll even attempts to say what happens with the electoral college. host: exactly. let's go back to our phone lines, and let's talk to john, who is calling from vicksburg, michigan. john, good morning. caller: hey, good morning. how are youoii believe that, in, timing is everything, and i believe that jamie raskin has kind of tipped the handsf thatt their plan is is to drop a bunch

of subpoenas and charges on republicans just prior to the midterms, to try to sway the vote at that time. what does he think about that? guest: i don't think january 6 is going to change any minds from this point forward. i don't think there are any events that can happen from this point forward. the people capable of being outraged were outraged long ago. the people that have not been outraged are not likely to get outraged. i think this election is going to be more about inflation or whatever. free democrats, you try to do what you can do. it is not my job to tell them what they should or should not do. my job is to say whether it looks like it may work or won't work. i think trying to steer voters away from an election being a

referendum up or down on who has the office now, and in this case, inflation, i don't think anything is going to steer this election any other way than being decided on those elements. host: in presidential election years, we always hear about october surprises. does that equate to midterms? do we see major news late in a cycle that changes the races like we expect to see in a presidential year? guest: october surprise, a lot of times when it is used, each side's base believes there is nothing too low that the other party would not do to try to affect elections. it is the ultimate cynicism. having said that, i think the october surprise in 2020 was after president did so badly in

that debate september 29, you started seeing the blue wave. the democrats were going to add to their majority in the house. they were going to win the senate. biden was going to win easily. all of this blue wave talk, i think it created a backlash in the sense that a lot of these independents were thinking i am ok with replacing president trump. i'm willing to give biden the keys to the car but not a full tank of gas or a credit card. defund the police, democratic socialism, pack the supreme court. there were second thoughts about the blue wave. i think that was the october surprise of 2020. host: one of our social media followers has a question they want you to address.

this person wants to know, can you talk about the impact of abortion policy platforms on the midterm elections? guest: another question i get asked is, what could possibly change where this election seems to be headed? the only thing i can think of would be if the supreme court throws out roe v. wade lock, stock, and barrel. i am not sure it would, but that is about the only thing i can come up with. keep in mind, a lot of states, new york state, california, illinois, they are not going to change their laws. other states. the abortion issue is the one thing that could cause a detour.

but if the court just nibbles or moves it from trimester to -- they could make some changes but not enough, so i am not even sure that will. that is the only thing i can come up with. the only known unknown, to borrow the dawn rumsfeld phrase. host: let's talk to fran calling from wisconsin. on the democrats mind. good morning. caller: good morning. i have a couple of short comments to make. if you would please let me get through the comments and then mr. cook can talk about it. first of all, it was nothing but propaganda. it is not surprising because

their supporters eat up the propaganda. the other thing is nobody ever mentions gerrymandering. it is all about how the republicans are going to take the election. what about gerrymandering? to me, those are not victories. the other thing is we know what the republicans are up to. we know what trump is up to. people better wake up because nothing is going to matter in this country if we lose our democracy and rights and independence. nothing is going to make a difference. inflation, high gas prices, nothing, if we lose our democracy. people better wake up in this country. we see how any people are ok with what happened on january 6.

that is pathetic that these people are still living in this country and going along with donald trump. guest: let's start off with the caller says the rnc ads were propaganda. ok. host: all ads are propaganda. guest: propaganda is what the other side does. it is like dark money. dark money is largely unreported, unlimited money spent on behalf of the other party. if it is spent on behalf of my party, it is concerned citizens wanting to improve the country. there is plenty of hypocrisy on both sides, which is a good segue to gerrymandering. i think more than campaign finance or anything else, i think gerrymandering is the

biggest political reform or one of the two that would be most important to do. republicans did it fairly well in a bunch of places. democrats did in new york and ellen neu -- illinois. usually, if they have a chance, they will unless there is a compelling reason not to. one reason they did better in redistricting than expected is there were a bunch of states where it republicans through the line 10 years ago, they decided to shore up weaker districts instead of trying to grab every additional when they possibly can. if i could wave a magic wand, i would have every state do it

exactly the way iowa does. i think that is the textbook way that it should be done. the other political reform. i would go to district-based counting on presidential. the whole country do like nebraska and maine. if you win the congressional district, you get that elector. and then, whoever carries the state. we will not get rid of the electoral college. but at the same time, it does bother people when one side wins more votes than the other. this would be a better way to do it. in terms of trump, i think this election is going to be more about president biden than president trump. if it is about president trump, that will not be a good outcome for republicans. i would say to the caller that you feel passionately about this. as a democrat, you should.

you should do everything you can to get people like you to turn out. nbc news combined their january and march surveys and found it was 46% each. normally, democrats have a natural edge. even is not a good place. when they asked people 1-10 how much interest you have in this election, of the people who said 9 and 10's, the most likely voters, republicans had the lead. i would say to that caller that you need to find a lot more people like you and make sure they vote since you feel as passionate as you do. you need to get the enthusiasm level up for democrats up to the point where it is for republicans. host: there are many primaries coming up in may.

which ones are you watching? guest: oh, gosh. north carolina, ohio, pennsylvania is coming up. we have a whole bunch. i think we will be watching the ohio senate primary. and the pennsylvania senate on the republican side or both sides. i don't think democrats are going to get their best candidate in pennsylvania. i think lieutenant governor federman is more likely to win the nomination. i am not sure he would be the strongest candidate. the ohio republican primary. it is like a dumpster fire. who knows what will come out of it? north carolina, i think the weaker republican will probably win the republican primary in north carolina. but i think given this environment, even the weaker republican is more likely to win

the general election. host: let's look specifically at ohio. i want to show an add from j.d. vance. here is his add touting his endorsement from former president trump. [video clip] >> donald trump has officially endorsed j.d. vance. he will continue trump's fight to protect our borders and stop joe biden. president trump's endorsed america first conservative. >> trump fought back and so have i. now, i will take our fight to the u.s. senate. host: he had a rally with president trump last night. did that tipped the needle in j.d. vance's way in the primary? guest: because it is such a big

primary field, something like former president trump jumping in is a huge boost. just as sure as the sun is going to come up in the east tomorrow, you will see ads of vance back in 2016 attacking donald trump. trying to say he is not trumpian enough, you will see other republicans running ads like that. it is trying to tap down the trump people on his behalf. it is such a big primary. he was not doing well before. i think it will probably be a pretty big boost. host: senator mitch mcconnell of kentucky has recently warned the gop takeover of the senate is at risk if the party nominates what he calls unacceptable candidates.

what is mitch mcconnell worried about? guest: back in 2010, the obama midterm election, and the tea party movement was really coming-of-age, and you had this fabulous year for republicans, and yet, they lost two key u.s. senate races in delaware and nevada because republican primary voters nominated exotic and potentially problematic candidates. republicans had a great year but they were short of a majority because of who they nominated in those two states. two years later in 2012, it happened again. indiana, missouri. again, they came up short of a majority because they nominated candidates who had kind of unusual views. if you nominate the wrong person, it can make a difference

even in a great environment. i think that is what senator mcconnell is interested in. you can love him, you can hate him, but there is no gauze. he is a very clear-eyed person. if you are a republican voter, you are curious, who is the most electable candidate? i would look and see which way mcconnell's super pac, the senate leadership fund, that would be a good tipoff on who they think would be there strongest candidate. host: let's go back to our phone lines and talk to gary calling from jacksonville, florida, on the democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning. it also happened in 2020 in georgia. no message got through to the people.

i called about mccarthy and his cowardice behind the scenes, how he complained about donald trump and his actions led to the insurrection in 2020, january 6 of 2021. just the cowardice. they censored adam kinzinger and liz cheney because they had the guts to stand up against trump. what he did was absolutely wrong and unconstitutional. there is no republican backbone among the leaders. thank you. guest: to me, the reaction various elected republican officials had in a week or two afterwards was like a truth serum. lots of them said what they thought. but when they started seeing their base was not reacting in

that way, you saw some of them jump back in and start currying favor with then president trump. you saw others that would quiet down and decided to keep it to themselves. liz cheney sort of kept it up. you look at mccarthy and mcconnell where mcconnell has not spoken to donald trump since that day. mccarthy said critical things about president trump after january 6 paid when he realized the base did not react that way, he comes back into the trump column. mcconnell basically decided not to yell as loudly and be as critical as he was. liz cheney showed the acorn does not fall for far from the tree.

she is not going to run from a fight. you can agree or disagree with her, but she is just like her dad. host: quickly, democrats or republicans take the senate? guest: i think both the house and senate are going republican. what ought to scare the heck out of democrats is let's say republicans have a 52-48 majority, you go into 2024, there are 23 democratic seats up, 10 republican seats. what is worse for democrats is there are seven democratic senate seats up in states donald trump carried in 2016 or 2020. there is not a single republican seat up that hillary clinton or joe biden carried. whatever bad happens to democrats this november could be compounded in 2024.

there's never a good time to have a bad election. this is a bad time to have about election. host: we would like to think charlie cook of the cook political report and national journal for coming on with us this morning discussion campaign 2020 and the political news of the day. next, we will move to open forum where you can call in and talk about your top political issue of the day. and later, the former french ambassador to the united states gerard araud will be here to discuss voting in the french presidential election and what that means for europe and the united states. stick with us. we will be right back. >> leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books.

from jamie raskin, his book, unsinkable, the trials of american democracy and a journalist and her book nancy pelosi out of the lessons of power. on afterwards, a political reporter talks about his book, on georgia turning purple during the election and the significance in future elections. he is interviewed by eugene scott. watch book tv and find a full schedule on your program or watch online anytime at book tv.org. this mother's day, give your mother the gift of c-span. save up to 30% on home decor,

accessories, and apparel, there is something for every fan and every part is help support our nonprofit operations. the mother sale is going on, only as c-span shop.org. scanned the code on the right to start shopping -- scan the code on the right to start shopping. >> washington journal continues. st: we are back with our open forum segment where you can call in and talk about your most important political issue of the day. we are going to open up our regular lines which means republicans, we want to hear from you at 202-748-8001. 202-748-8000. you can always text us. we are always reading on social media on twitter and on

facebook. before we get into our calls for our open forum segment, we want to you the news that former senator orrin hatch of utah has died. there is a story in today's "sully tribune" -- "salt lake tribune" that talks about the death of senator orrin hatch. orrin hatch was many things, but he will you most remembered as a seven-term u.s. senator and utah's political godfather, starting or furthering the careers of generations of republicans. a conservative, he had a reputation for negotiating deals on major legislation often involving health care and taxes and for championing religious liberties with an eye towards his latter-day saints faith

which he wore on his sleeve. he helped shape the supreme court, embraced president, and pushed mitt romney to replace him when he finally called it quits after 42 years in office. hatch died saturday in salt lake city surrounded by family members. he was 88. he leaves behind his wife, six children, and dozens of grandchildren and great-grandchildren. there was a statement released by the hatch foundation, by the executive director, and i will read that to you quickly. senator orrin hatch personified the american dream. born the son of a carpenter, he overcame the poverty of his youth to become a united states senator with the hardships of his upbringing always fresh in his mind. he made it his life's mission to

expand freedom and opportunity for others. the results speak for themselves . from taxes to religious liberty and health care, few legislators have had a greater impact on american life than orrin hatch. he was a profoundly positive influence in the lives of those he served whether they were the constituents he helped over four decades of casework, the hundreds of interns he sponsored in utah ndc, -- and d.c., or the robust member of staffers who carry on his legacy to the state. senator hatch touched the hearts of countless individuals. i know i speak for them all when i say that he will be dearly missed. that is from the hatch foundation executive director. we are in our open forum segment. we want to know what your most important political issue is of the day. let's start with ron calling from ocala, florida, on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning.

my concern is the lack of any border control at this moment. our country was founded on people who come into this country from others, unless you are a native american which my great-grandmother was. but the very fact that we all come from different countries, that means that is what we do. that is how we got this country to be great. however, letting everybody and anybody into this country who wants to show up who may be fleeing from their country because they are a criminal or drug dealer, someone trafficking in human people for whatever benefit, leaving our borders light open which we have done under this president not only is a disaster to our economy, but it is a disaster to our national security. we don't know who these people are.

you don't know where they came from. we don't know where they are going. we don't know their intent. we do know who will pay for them to get here because it will be the american taxpayer because they do not have a job or income. no american citizen can get on an airplane, train, a bus, without some kind of formal i.d. they cannot vote. they cannot do anything else unless they have to comply with the laws that we have always had to comply with. i do not understand open borders. i do not understand mr. biden's idea that under president trump we did have secure borders and some policy that dealt with people that needed to get into this country and wanted to. now, it is back we are now, it is like we are back to 9/11. we did that homeland -- we did not have homeland security before that. the reason we got it was terrorism. host: let's go to robert in florida on the democrat line. caller: good morning, c-span.

i wanted to comment on global warming, climate change. has been going on since the end of the last ice age. i would ask you to remember not one of the fossil fuel industries existed at the end of the last ice age or for thousands of years thereafter. but remember this. the great lakes, the norwegian fiords, they were carved out by glacier activity. at the end of the last ice, ice was half a mile thick. you can find that information in probably in the eighth grade science book. i just think the whole global warming thing is a hoax. it is just nature acting as usual. it is hard for me to believe any rational person thinks the united states congress for the spending of millions and millions of dollars is going to

have any effect upon the weather where the climate. thank you for your time. host: let's go to jimmy calling from maine on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning, jesse. the most important thing on my mind is prices at the gas station and grocery store. i am about ready to go shopping in maine. it is unbelievable. i used to get a couple of bags of groceries for $50. i get two or three now and it is $150. everything has gone through the roof. these people in washington live in a bubble. i used to be a democrat my whole life. the party has completely left me behind. they have some good ideas but nobody wants to get together anymore. we have a good senator here in susan collins. she tries to be down the middle-of-the-road. very few people in this country are open-minded to try to bring this country back together.

my biggest thing is we have the fbi and cia with 50 people prior to the election that went against the hunter biden story. twitter shut it down. the new york post had this on the october surprise and they shut them out completely. this is america. we have all these people that will not let the truth come out. is it because they are all getting rich in washington, d.c.? what is it we do as a little person in maine that we can do like hunter biden? the guy, his business partner, 19 times visited the white house. that was when mr. biden was vice president. how would he comes to we have to see this stuff? we are over your paying our taxes and doing the little things in life. these are people getting rich and we are over 30 between dollars in debt -- over $30 trillion in debt. host: let's go to steve on the

republican line. caller: good morning. my concern is how these politicians can become so corrupt and powermad and money hungry. out of the 535 members of congress, there are probably 10 of them that are worth being in office. host: which 10 do you think are worth being in office? caller: pardon me? host: which 10 do you think should be in office? caller: probably nine of them on the republican side and one of them on the democrat side. the rest of them, all we can do is hope and pray for term limits because these old-timers that have been there forever have to go. they had up all of these different committees. if you don't go along with them, you are just out. host: all right.

let's go to john calling from chapel hill, north carolina, on the democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning. i just want to respond to the previous two callers. they present these grand accusations, but they have no specific information to support what they are saying. the thing i really want to get to is two things, the mask thing and the conspiracy to defraud the united states. to me, it seems incredibly stupid to think it is ok to go without a mask when the rate of infection is picking up again. we know the more infections there are, the more variants there will be in the more disaster there will be for people who get infected. that is just totally selfish and

unpatriotic attitude. host: let me stop you there. what do you say to people who point to the fact that fewer people are dying from covid-19? maybe the infection rate is going up, but fewer people are dying. so, should we wear masks to protect americans from the flu, the cold? if people are not dying from it, should masks still be necessary? caller: you said if people are not dying from it. people are dying from it. one day last week, the daily total was 2300 people in one day. i don't consider that a safe level of death by the disease. it is still the number three cause of death in the country. that seems to me to be a fairly ridiculous argument that since only 2300 people died one day we should be ok with not wearing masks. that just seems ridiculous to

me. host: ok. caller: onto the conspiracy to defraud the united states. donald trump issued statements that were designed to defraud the united states by interfering with a governmental function. it says in the law, 18 u.s. code 371, that the general conspiracy statute says that if two or more persons decide to either commit any offense against the united states or defraud the united states or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose that they are guilty of violating this statute. those violations include making public statements that they know are false. after having 60 quarts explain

to trump and his lawyers that there was no case to be made for fraud that affected the outcome of the 2020 election, it is not possible that he did not know that there was no fraud that affected the outcome of the election. he is guilty of trying to defraud the united states government and conspiring with others to do so. host: let's go to arthur calling from michigan on the independent line. arthur, good morning. caller: i wanted to give a spiritual message about jesus and the flag. what is in common? the whiteness of his eyes, his

teeth, his skeleton. his blue veins. that is between our nationalities and animals, too. i wanted to say something about the republican and democrat elephant and donkey. why did they choose the symbols? the elephant blew its trumpet in china in 2020 and jesus rode the donkey to the cross. that is basically it. we are all spiritually in connect. host: let's go to lend a calling from walker, on the republican line. good morning -- let's go to linda calling from walker, west virginia, on the republican line. ♪ i would like to know who is behind biden running this country.

the man gets on stage and shakes hands with somebody not there. number two, i would like to know why there is a fence put up in washington when y'all run trump down about the border. we are wide open with everybody coming in. that is it for me. host: let's go to robert calling from worcester, massachusetts, on the democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning. you got that right, jesse. i want to talk about critical race theory. ok? when i grew up, i learned about that movie, "birth of the nation." at that time, woodrow wilson was the president. ok? you have to learn to read these books and watch these movies. high school kids, watch this movie. it is called "guess who's coming to dinner?" with sidney poitier and katherine hepburn. ok?

you high school kids, i want you to read this book, "to kill a mockingbird." please, kids, read that. in the 1970's, we had to watch this movie called "roots." it was about slavery. greeting, killing -- beating, killing, some of what this country was founded on. americans had to watch that for five days. after five days, white people had to stay away from me. i'm just being real with you now. the best movie of all times is called "the wizard of oz." that movie started out in black-and-white. host: "the new york times" has an update on the latest developments in the war in ukraine, including two u.s. officials expected to arrive in ukraine's capital later today.

i will read the story to you from "the new york times." ukraine observed a solemn orthodox easter on sunday as russia's offensive in the east claimed more lives and as president zelenskyy was preparing for a milestone visit later in the day from two top american officials. secretary of state antony blinken and defense secretary lloyd austin, iii, who were expected to arrive in kyiv in the early afternoon for a brief visit would be the highest level u.s. officials to travel to ukraine since russia invaded too much ago. there visit underscored the biden administration's increasingly muscular approach to the war as ukraine's western allies raised to provide weapons to fend off russia's renewed onslaught in the donbass.

the u.s. government has allocated roughly $3.4 billion in military assistant to ukraine over the course of the war, part of an extraordinary international coalition that now includes more than two dozen nations racing to help expand and resupply the ukrainian arsenal. once again, that is from "the new york times" with sector of state anthony blinken and defense secretary lloyd austin expected to ride in can't later today. we want to know what your top political issue is. let's go to daniel calling from sarasota springs, new york, on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning, sir. i had two issues. one on ukraine and one on open borders. on ukraine, i think biden is doing a superb job on the whole ukraine issue and supplying them with weapons but keeping us out of nuclear war. that takes a very delicate

dance. he is walking it and executing beautifully, unlike our previous president who was an appeaser in my mind. regarding open borders, i think we can turn lemons into lemonade. this country needs workers. we have got people who need work. let's bring these people in, process them, vet them, and get them to work in nursing homes and get them to do lower pay jobs nobody else wants and get this country moving and helping these people out. that is my stand. host: let's go to paul, calling from yuma, arizona, on the democrat line. good morning. caller: morning, jesse. daniel kind of stole my thunder. listening this morning, i hear

so many conspiracy theories with nothing behind it. the open border? i live in arizona. you cannot get much closer to the border. we are not being invaded, folks. the aliens are not coming. sure, there's massive people at the border because the world economy is in a mess and they are looking to feed their kids. any of you out there would do the same exact thing. so, quit talking about the border as if it is a real crisis. it is being handled. and we do need the workers as daniel says. so, lighten up, folks. get off the hunter biden story. he has not been convicted of anything. he has not even been charged with anything. yet, the right wing has this whole thing blown up and got you all convinced he is the bogeyman

in the process. host: let's go to david calling from denison, texas, on the republican line. david, good morning. caller: good morning. i am back and forth on things. want to quickly address the climate change think somebody mentioned although it was not at the top of my list. look into the medieval warming period. the temperature was 1.2 degrees fahrenheit warmer in the northern hemisphere in america and in europe for 600 years. you will hear the climate folks tell you today's temperature is the warmest since whatever. have them explain the medieval warming period. they got some explanations that do not make sense. but it was a whole different time. it was followed by the little ice age from 1350 to 1850. i heard a professor on c-span.

they had a conference a decade ago. he was a scientist who coined and came up with the concept of climate change. he goes and teaches on the east coast. al gore was one of his students. he also said al gore was one of his worst students. he completely denounced his theory associated with the debate. there is no settled science. you can find all kind of arguments online about it. what you don't find our arguments on tv, social media. it is like the hunter biden story. it gets shut down. it is like the story about the wuhan lab where you have scientists saying this looks like it came from the wuhan lab. and after a week of dealing without you, they all changed their story -- with fauci, they

all change their story ever getting money. i want to focus on the energy policy. there's nothing divided administration is doing that will stop inflation at this point. once it gets going, it is really hard to stop. the only way they got on top of the horrible inflation from the 1970's, volcker came in and said you have to get interest rates higher than inflation. we are not even close. host: let's go to jerry calling from north carolina on the independent line. good morning. caller: how are you? host: just fine. go ahead. jerry, go ahead. i think we lost jerry. let's go to rhonda calling from new jersey on the democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning. good morning, america, my beautiful country that i love.

i want to talk about the hypocrisy in the news media from fox news. they are not being honest with their listeners. they are not revealing to them all of the audiotapes with kevin mccarthy and his entire republican caucus agreeing that donald trump should resign from office. they put that girl out of her committee. they expelled her from the republican national committee. and they all knew that she was telling the truth. this is the hypocrisy that we have to live with, with the party that is supposed to represent the christian church. they are all demons in sheep clothing. they are rebels. they are oldman -- they are

devils. they are old men thinking they will never die. they want to have everything they ever desire, and they want you to pay for it, the poor. host: we would like to thank all of our callers who called in for our open forum segment. coming up next, former french ambassador to the united states gerard araud will be here to discuss today's final voting in the french presidential election and what it means for europe, the west, and the united states. stick with us. we will be right back. >> live sunday, may 1, larry kudlow will be our guest to talk about wall street, the u.s. economy, and taxes. he served as director of the national economic council under president trump and is the author of several books.

join in the conversation with your phone calls, facebook comments, texts, and tweets for larry kudlow on sunday, may 1, at noon eastern on book tv on c-span2. >> c-span brings you an unfiltered view of government. our newsletter recaps the day for you from the halls of congress to remarks from the president. scan the qr code at the right bottom to sign up for the email and stay up-to-date on everything happening in washington each day. subscribe today using the qr code or visit c-span.org/connect to subscribe any time. >> in jeffrey frank's recent

book, he reports that at his low point in his time as president, truman was only 16% popular. however, 70 years later, harry truman was ranked sixth most effective of the 46 u.s. presidents according to the latest c-span survey. jeffrey frank, whose career includes professional years at "new york magazine" has written the first full account of the truman presidency in 30 years. the title reflects the theme of the biography. >> the author on this episode of "footnotes plus -- "books notes plus." >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are back with former french ambassador to the united states and in atlantic council

distinguished fellow gerard araud, was here to discuss with us the french presidential runoff election and what it means for europe, the west, and the united states. ambassador, thank you for being with us this morning. guest: good morning. host: as we all know, the french presidential runoff elections are today, which is a huge story in france and europe. but why should americans pay attention to who wins this election? guest: political life in france is comparable to political life in the united states. france is facing a wave coming from the far right. today, we have the incumbent, president macron, who is a centrist facing a far right candidate, marine le pen. if she wins, she wants to get

france out of nato. she wants also to get closer to putin. you could argue also that what she says about the european union would mean the end of the european union. the stakes are very high. very high for europe and also for the united states. host: now, what does this specifically mean for france? you were talking about arising populism. tell us specifically what a change here if le pen wins would mean for france, the country? guest: basically, the question we have now is whether we are going to have our trump moment. for your audience, basically marine le pen, the populist candidate, is more or less like donald trump. basically, she says she wants to break the system. she does not have any executive experience. she is surrounded by people who

have absolutely no experience. she wants to fight the elite. she wants also, in a sense, to weaken the democracy because she says the judges are preventing the people from doing whatever they want. it would be far right leadership. host: what does the race look like right now? who is leading in the polls? how many votes to they need to ensure victory? tell us what the process looks like and tell us executive with the polls look like right now. guest: fortunately, we don't have an electoral college which would deprive the majority of citizens from victory. it is simply the majority which matters. so far, the polls are in favor of the incumbent, in favor of

the centrist president emmanuel macron. to be frank, i'm crossing my fingers because i remember vote for brexit in the u.k. in 2016 and in the u.s. in 2016 where the polls were generally saying brexit could not go through and [indiscernible] would be elected. the politics today are so toxic in france, like in a lot of western democracies. you don't really know who is going to vote, who is not going to vote. the posters are making mistakes -- the pollsters are making mistakes. according to the polls, macron should win. host: in the united states, in a runoff election, fewer american voters show up which makes each vote more important. do you expect to see more voters were fewer voters in the elections today than in the previous one? guest: first, the french are

voting more than the americans. usually, at the presidential elections, the french vote at 80% of voters come. this year, i think your question is right. i think this year, the french will vote less, maybe around 70 percent or 75%. a lot of voters do not like the choice which is offered to them. it is the choice between the incumbent and the far right. for instance, the leftists. the president is more centrist. the leftists don't have a candidate. they don't like the far right. they hesitate to vote for a president they don't really like. host: what can you tell us about

the differences between macron and le pen in their foreign affairs policies, and their relationships with other countries in europe and the west? is there a major difference between these candidates? guest: yes. again, going back to the american example, it is the same thing like between biden and trump. macron is in favor of international cooperation with nato and the european union. he has a strong relationship with president biden while marine le pen says we should leave nato. she has been obliged to condemn the invasion of ukraine by russia, she said after the war, she wants to have a close relationship with russia.

her party got "alone" of $10 million from a bank close to the kremlin. she has been obliged to hide it. but she has a picture of herself smiling with putin. she would have a very different foreign policy. and of course, she would also be opposed to immigration. she would be very anti-muslim. host: let me take a second to remind viewers that they can take part in this conversation. we are going to open up our regular lines. republicans come you can call in at 202-748-8001. democrats, your line is 202-748-8000. independents, you can call

202-748-8002. we will open up a special line for european residents. if you are watching this show and you are a resident of france or any other european country, we want to know how you think this election is going to turn out and how it might affect you. european residents, your number is going to be 202-748-8003. 202-748-8003. keep in mind, you can also text us at that same number, 202-748-8003. and we are always reading on social media at twitter and on facebook. ambassador, you are in new york. did you participate in the french presidential election? if you did, who do you support? guest: yes, i voted yesterday. we voted at the french embassy

in new york. i voted. i voted for the incumbent. i voted for emmanuel macron. when you vote, between two people, you know it. it is not a question of choosing your candidate. it is trying to say i do not want this candidate, and i do not want a far right candidate. i have seen what happened in the u.s. i have seen in brexit what is happening. i did not hesitate voting for emmanuel macron. host: one of our social media followers has a question for you and wants to know about what would happen if le pen wins. the question is, would she have the power as president to get out of nato and the e.u. or does the parliament need to agree? guest: that is a good question also because it gives the

opportunity to meet to say we will have parliamentary elections in june. for the government, for prime minister, and for the government. it means the winner today will need also to campaign for parliament so he or she has a majority to support his or her policy. getting out of nato, i think the president may do it on his own because he is the commander-in-chief of the armed forces. as for the european union, she is not going to stay out of -- say she wants out of the opinion. she will say i want to change the european union. she will try to work with hungary and poland, which as you know are also what we call in europe [indiscernible] democracies. she will try with them to change the european union.

if the other european states refuse it, what will happen? sooner or later, she will go to a referendum. i think that would be the way of deciding whether we stay or don't stay in the european union. she will ask the french people to decide for referendum -- through referendum. a referendum is always in certain. you don't know the results. so far, the majority of the french want to stay in the european union. but who knows? host: let's go to the phone lines and talk to one of our callers. let's start with william calling from pennsylvania on the republican line. good morning. caller: yes, i want to know how he is talking about the polls when macron stopped the polls from being on the news stations. and also, he is political. he is for macron.

macron is a socialist democrat that hates french and would rather import immigrants than helping their own people out. thank you, goodbye. host: go ahead and respond, ambassador. guest: of course, macron does not hate france. if you were to hate france, he would not have been elected. it is simply a question of a difference of vision of what should be france. and frankly, also, macron is considered by the french left to be on the center right. it is difficult to consider him as -- it depends on which democrat you are referring to. as for immigration, that is one of the issues of the race like in the united states. the problem is that for the far

right campaigning on immigration is that immigration is item three or four for most citizens. the real issue for this campaign was the cost of living because france, like the united states, is facing a wave of inflation. this wave of inflation in europe has been worsened by the ukrainian war. the prices of energy have skyrocketed. americans are complaining about the price of gas. try to imagine in europe that the price of a gallon is $8. i think that is one of the main issues. immigration is there, but it has been less of the front page than was expected. host: we were talking earlier about the fact that two u.s.

officials are on their way to kyiv today to meet with the ukrainian president. would a change in the french presidency change the country's attitude and actions for what's going on in ukraine right now? guest: he has decided to send out heavy artillery to ukraine and madam le pen has really said that she wants to be closer to russia, she has said also that she will stop the delivery of weapons to ukraine and she will oppose any further sanctions against. it will certainly be one of the topics with her would be the most difference between the two candidates. host: would madam le pen be able to make that decision on her own

or with that have to go through parliament? guest: i think it would be on her own because the delivery of weapons is an executive competence. so she will be totally able to stop the delivery of weapons on her own. host: let's go back to our phone lines and talk to joe from new york city on the democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning and good morning mr. ambassador. i wonder if the french government has taken any measures to prevent foreign influence in the current election. we have had experience in 2016 and 2020 where allegedly russians interfered with our elections. could you comment on that? guest: sure.

in -- we had our elections in may of 2017, so it was after the election of november 2016 and for us, it was a striking experience. we have been working with our other european intelligence services, with cyber specialists to prevent any cyber attacks. in 2017, before the end of the official campaign, the macron headquarters was attacked and there were documents which were spread -- fake documents spread. we were attacked, it was also an experience and all the political

parties were warned to protect their internet systems and french services have been working a lot with them. we also had a dialogue with the americans on these topics. on top of that you may know we have -- we've decided since the beginning of the war in ukraine, to forbid the television and the press agency of the russian government. already today -- rt today, russia today which was the russian presence online. host: can you describe for us what the relationship is like between president macron and president joe biden and what was

the relationship like between president macron and former president trump? and then can you tell us what you think the relationship would be like if le pen wins with president biden. guest: between president trump and president macron, the relationship was good because president macron wants it to be good. simply president trump as president of the united states was the most powerful man on earth. so the national interest of france -- president trump -- because it was the entry of the united states in the first world war and president macron was invited to a visit to washington in 2018. they had a phone -- a really

interesting relationship. they may disagree very often, but nevertheless there were discussions of issues and i think it was very healthy and necessary. with president biden it's more traditional. with president trump he was the only guy who knew what was going to be decided by the united states and so the rest of the administration -- with joe biden we are back to the normal way of a relationship with a strong and competent secretary of state. i think the war in ukraine is a good example of the foreign policy, of the way the foreign policy is led by president biden and it's quite competent. it's really gone in a competent way. the united states has been able to have that leadership to keep

that which -- and also to support ukrainians with that i should say crossing redlines. so we are back in a normal way of conducting foreign policy. guest: how do you think that would -- host: how do you think that would change of madam le pen wins. guest: again it would be -- she has no experience of foreign policy or what is executive office and she is not surrounded by a very capable team. so i really don't know what she would do or how she will do it. she will have to show that she is different and on the issues

were she wants to be different, the relationship will be certainly a bit bumpy if she is elected. host: let's go back to the phone lines and talk to rick from des moines, iowa. good morning. caller: good morning. i'm guessing marjorie taylor greene is a lot like the other person over in france where she believes that black lives matter and antifa attacked on january 6. i would like your view please. host: can you respond to that ambassador? guest: can you repeat the

question, i'm really sorry. caller: i'm still here. host: could you repeat the question. caller: i would like to have his view on some of our conspiracy people who are trying to get back into office. guest: i said this in the very beginning, what is striking for me when i was ambassador in washington and what is frustrating to me also as a french man is american society and french society are going through the times when a substantial number of our voters are rebelling against the system and the elite and the conspiracy theories are blossoming in france the way they are blossoming in the u.s.. even of the french are more vaccinated than the americans, but now about the war in ukraine

where you have the far right saying it's because of the americans, biological labs in ukraine. he is all a segment which is basically leaving the world of truth for the world of cons per rations -- conspiracy. instead of saying that they are either stupid or fascist, it simply trying to understand their concerns. what is happening, why do they want this. i think that's the real problem and that's what democracies should address and put an end to this very weird period. host: let's talk about madam le pen's first time running for president. can you tell us what happened

the last time she ran? >> she has been running a few times now, really three times. last time she was also the front runner against macron and she was crushed during the presidential debate. she was crushed. usually a presidential debate doesn't make that difference. but this time she lost five or six points overnight and this time she was much better during the presidential debate. she was really much better and it was a short debate. it was also different from 2017 because somebody much more radical than her was running on the right. someone obsessed without him at -- about immigration. as i told you.

the fact he was there helps her to look more moderate and release of the accusation of being far right was less easy to stick to her really because in our country, they are not positive adjectives. so it helped her and she has been very cautious and by sticking to the issue of cost-of-living and being less up session over the traditional far ♪ steve: welcome to tc live as we continue the road to roland garros on european red clay. in the land of super yachts, we find the biggest superstars in tennis all looking to claim the monte carlo masters title.

a lot to get to over the next 30 minutes. we have got all the big highlights and you don't want to miss what the players said to prakash. big news on roger federer's come back and everything is bigger in texas, including the wta. with that, we welcome you into our santa monica studio. steve weissman back alongside world number 12 coach to the stars paul annacone, and hall of famer andy roddick on the big screen. we are going to talk about a future hall of famer, but first, a current hall of famer is calling it a career after her latest comeback. four times singles major champion kim clijsters announced her retirement from tennis. andy, you were inducted with kim in 2017. what is your reaction to this latest news? andy: i don't know that this comeback effort from kim, who is a dear friend of mine, ever got fully on the rails. covid played havoc with her schedule. could not get in the groove and

get the reps, but if for nothing else, she has peace of mind. i don't expect we could see a reversal at this point and kim is so blessed with her family and her children. i never worry a day about what kim is going to get up to. it is always going to be something great in the future. love to kim. hope you're happy with where you are at. paul: one of the most well-liked athletes of our time. a wonderful player, better human being. nice shot after winning the u.s. open. she has had a tremendous career and andy, spot on. had different kinds of aspirations to come back in a different world and never got it going, some because of covid, some because a family left, but her next chapter is going to be good. steve: third retirement for kim clijsters. 41 titles, more than 500 wins for singles majors, two doubles

majors and a hall of famer. hall of fame person as well. kim clijsters one of the nicest in the game and we wish the very best to her. we will see her on tv a little bit and she has the academy in belgium. from a former number one to a current number one, the last time we saw novak djokovic was february in dubai. he picked up a couple of wins before losing to jiri vesely in the quarterfinals. that loss took him briefly out of the top spot in the rankings. tuesday the two-time monte carlo champ will get back on track against alejandro davidovih divot of it folk ina -- france. alejandro davidovich fokina. the 22-year-old starting strong, andy. andy: letting him know he was in

it to place. screaming, getting pumped up, got off to a fast start. extremely windy conditions today. davidovich fokina with his back full of clay. he was actually diving around more than round again your field -- ronnie dangerfield that only paul annacone will get. fokina had already been up in the second set, lost his way, fighting to get through. novak, once he was able to turn this around, best point of the match. vintage novak scurrying side to side. coming up with a clutch forehand pass on the run when needed. at this point we felt as long as he has got the legs and the fitness, this match might end up being a good one for novak to get through. but it wasn't meant to be. davidovich fokina , credit to him because he let that second set getaway. i don't know if there is anyone quicker on the clay court. switching directions makes it look easy, it is certainly not. well-earned victory full of

mental stresses today. respect to novak, fist pumping right in front of him, but all time best win. you like to see it, novak classic in the net but he got his reps in today. -- classy at the net, but he got his reps in today. steve: biggest win of his career and djokovic trying to explain the loss after. >> i was hanging on the ropes the entire game. the entire match i was tracing the result constantly. cannot speak much about my chances. had some games where i was break point, game point and lost many of those games in the first set. also second. but he could've won this match in straight sets. i just kinda fought my way through the third but then i was physically, completely collapsed. i could not move anymore.

>> i am so happy for the win. today to beat -- i don't have any words. i was enjoying every point because i knew he did not play a lot this year. to go from that from the beginning to have more confidence with myself. >> you are playing every point like you were diving on grass all the time. >> i did not care about falling down because i was pushing myself -- i didn't care. to play every point and it does not matter if i fall down and did not make it. just to focus on the next point. steve: incredible effort. first time since 2018 djokovic has lost active back matches to players ranked outside the top 45. paul, nine breaks. djokovic has never been broken nine times in a best of three match. how did the spaniard do it? paul: for novak, that is two or

three months of the year on his calendar with that number of errors. when you see there were 31 break opportunities at 8:00 p.m.. by 8:00 p.m. you suddenly have on the tv you have an announcer saying the president of the french republic is and you have the face of the winner appearing. so if you want to know the result, at 2:00 p.m. eastern time. host: are they the only people on the ballot or can you write in someone else or vote no choice? tell us what the ballot itself looks like. guest: these very simple. we are blessed, the majority is the majority and on the second

round you can say no choice, it is called the french white vote. it has no influence on the result what matters is the majority really, so the first one is elected president. i voted yesterday, i was given two. i put one in the envelope and it's done. will have the parliamentary elections another day. in six or eight weeks we vote for the house -- what would be your house of representatives. host: one more process question. will macron get a result over 50%? does he have to get 50% plus one to be elected or does he just

need to get more votes? guest: if you have only two candidates and if you don't count the no choice, by definition he will have more. when you have two people running it would be 50% plus one vote in any case. the closest we had i think a few years ago was 51.2 versus 48.8, usually it's a bit wider. >> let's assume the worst happens and it's a tie. what happens then? guest: the pollsters will be unable to say who will win, but when you have something like 40 million some people voting, i

think it's really one chance out of one million that you have exactly the same number between the two candidates. we will have to wait for the final counting of the votes, we could have a long evening. it's never happened so far but we will have to wait for the winner. host: let's go back to the phone lines and talk to annette who is talking from jackson heights, new york on the democrat line. guest: goo -- caller: good morning. i would like you if possible to get into some of the history of le pen's father. he is, if i'm not mistaken, tied in with vichy. i do not know a lot of people who support her in this country

or france understand that. and the implications. i don't know that the apple falls far from the tree. but she is close with putin, that he gave her money that he doesn't necessarily want back. i don't really understand the thought process of backing someone like that up. if you can can you please explain the history of her father. thank you. guest: yes. her father was a child during the war. after the war in the 1970's he created a party which was among the founders you had people who had found with the germans and the nazis during the war, so it was of course a very tiny movement, i was born eight years

before the war. it was impossible to be linked to the far right because it was stained by its behavior during the war. the movement of the father basically was a very small movement and a very radical to the right. they were publishing records of the german army during the war which says a lot. the father is still alive, he is in his 90's. so it's one of her problems because obviously she wants to distance herself from her father. her father has been expelled from the party he has founded and she has really wanted to get

rid of the stain of the relationship with vichy, she has been very keen on doing that or trying to have jewish members in her party and she got some of them because it's not the traditional anti-semitism of the far right, but anti-islam and some french jews because of israel and others. she has done her utmost to not to be linked to the dark memories of the second world war. but at the same time we know that some of her closest friends in her private life actually are quite radical and really are not hiding the fact they are very close to the far right including the nazi regime.

in doing all -- during the campaign she is tried not to be described as far right. far right in france is still thought of as a forbidden political party because of the memories of the war and she has not succeeded because of her name, because of the memories. for a lot of friends she is an unacceptable candidate. host: a little bit about the process. will the one with the fewer votes give up and never decide to run for office again? will be the future plans of the candidates if they lost. let me rephrase the first question, does the one with fewer votes have to officially give up for the election to be over? can they appeal the election

we've like -- that we are like -- like we have seen in the united states. >> the final decision will be made by the constitutional court which in a few days will be -- will say the president is. and the transition will be imminent. a few days later there will be the new president. it is much quicker in france than it is in the west with much less protocol than in the u.s.. the candidate who lost, although as i told you, marine le pen has been a candidate three times already and we have had a president elected after being defeated twice and was elected a third time.

i think president nixon was defeated in 1960 by kennedy and then actually elected and 68. it really is quite possible to go on. in any case, the political life in france -- the traditional parties we had a party on the centerleft and the center-right, a conservative in social democrats and the results from the first one was pathetic. so the question will be especially for the parliamentary elections, whether we agree to have a parliament with only a centrist party and far left in a

far right party which would be a contentious political life or whether the traditional parties will be made in. in the future of the political parties. host: let's see if we can get one last call in. melissa from north carolina on the independent line. caller: good morning. to the young people vote traditionally? in america young people have strong feelings and then how easy is it for french people to vote and maybe just a little bit more on the actual process. guest: actually everything is

done to make voting easy. most of the people vote themselves and revote, we don't vote with electronic machines. we vote by hand. that was the idea for organizing our system. there was the american example. the problem of the american example was there was no fraud. nevertheless, there was a real debate about fraud. since our political life is as toxic as yours, we concluded we would have the same problems. it has been decided to stick to the old way of doing it on paper. so, that is it.

as for who is voting, we have the same problem which is that the young people vote less than the other parts of the population. the minorities are voting less, especially our muslim citizens are voting less. the last point, which is that macron got a substantial majority among the 18-25 and over 65. the boomers, as you say, have been voting for macron. as i said, the youngest voters. there is debate with people saying yes, but the reason

people did not vote for macron, it is unfair, and the boomers who are not voting anymore have such power in electoral life. whatever they say, every vote is equal. host: we would like to think gerard araud, the former french ambassador to the united states and atlantic council distinguished fellow for being on with us this morning and talking us through today's presidential runoff in france. thank you so much for your time this morning. guest: it was a pleasure. host: host: i would like to thank all of our guests, viewers, and callers, and social media

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