then, author and lincoln forum chair harold holzer joins us to talk about the history and significance of the lincoln memorial on its centennial. join the discussion with your phone calls, facebook comments, text messages, and tweets. ♪ host: good morning it is saturday, may 21. three hour washington journal ahead and we will talk about president biden's trip to south korea and focus on the lincoln memorial ahead of the 100th anniversary. we begin with the question about the 45th president of the united states. as former president donald trump has made high-profile endorsements and key elections we are asking republicans only to call in to tell us how much influence you think how much influence he has on the gop?

phone lines split differently. republicans, if you say he has too much influence the number (202)-748-8000. if you say it is not enough influence, (202)-748-8001. if it is just about right, (202)-748-8002. you can also text us at (202)-748-8003 and please include your name and where you are from. you can catch up on facebook.com/c-span or twitter @c-spanwj. republicans only in this first segment. start calling in on your thoughts on former president trump's influence on the gop. he talked about his own influence at a rally earlier this month ahead of the pennsylvania primary that happened tuesday. at that rally for dr. oz

president trump talked about what he has done for the party over the years. [video clip] >> just the latest proof that we have transformed the face of the republican party, thank goodness. we are now the working people's party but really the party of everyone. you know what? we are the party of common sense more than anything else. [cheering and applause] we believe in putting america first and we are going to keep on fighting to make america great again. [cheering and applause] you know what else republicans are? they are the party of the american dream, they really are. the party of the american dream which is being taken away from you. if you want to make our country safer for violent criminals, vote for the radical democrats. if you want to make it safer for your family, your children, and for law-abiding americans, you

must vote for republicans, you must. i don't know if you heard, our party is growing by leaps and bounds with hispanics, african-americans, asian americans. everybody. the party is much different than when i started six years ago, six years ago really. we have a much different party. some people say trumpism, call it whatever you want, but it is a party of safety and common sense. host: former president trump rally for dr. oz and that race after tuesday's primary likely to go to a recount. that may not be decided until june. dr. oz in a tight race with david mccormick, the other republican challenging him, gathering almost as many votes as dr. oz. we will see what happens in the coming days and weeks.

former president trump playing in several republican primaries throughout the season. more of them to come. do you think former president trump has to much influence on the party, not enough influence, or just about right? we are talking to republicans only. brooke in maine on the line for those that say it is about the right amount. good morning. caller: yeah. i believe president trump is one of the best presidents we have had since reagan in that he actually represents the people. he does what he says he is going to do. i understand some people have issue with his personality, but if you know anything about politics and policy, it is not

about only personality, it is about policy. his policies work for the people that he represents. host: that was brooke in maine. this is karen in alabaster saying, not enough. go ahead. caller: good morning. the reason i say not enough is because i feel like he should have been president. without going down that rabbit hole, i feel like the influence he does have people say, well, he is picking these candidates and people are voting for them and it is true, but the biggest influence he has is that he made us realize we do not have to put up with what washington is doing anymore. we do not have to put up with the political elites, we can vote them out.

that is the influence i think president trump has had on us and i think it is a good thing. we can vote these people out when we do not like what they do. host: who do you think it is going to be in alabama? kaylee brett? caller: yes. host: she was a staffer for senator shelby, former staffer. why do you think she's going to win? caller: first of all, mo brooks has been back and forth. i feel like he is still part of the swamp. he has been there a long time, he needs to go. katie brett appears to be -- there is a lot of negative campaigning and i do not know 100% true -- but she is christian, she seems to be for the american people, when she

goes to washington she is going to keep in mind where she came from, she is pro-gun, she is prone less taxes -- pro less taxes. she is part of the new republican party. host: we will head to georgia, jimmy in athens says president trump has to much influence. why do you say that? caller: because too many people believe when he says things that are not true. my main example of that is when he was running for president he said over and over again that mexico is going to pay for it. well, mexico did not pay for it. if mexico did pay for it, he probably would have been reelected. he new mexico is not going to

pay for it. everyone who voted for donald trump knew that mexico was not going to pay for it, yet they voted for him anyway. and so, although i agree with many of donald trump's policies, i wish that the republican party would choose someone more honest and someone who does not use insults and then i would be happy to vote for a republican. host: a big test of former president trump's endorsement power comes on tuesday in the georgia republican gubernatorial race. he endorsed the former senator david perdue against governor brian kemp. what do you think happens on tuesday in your state? caller: i am pretty sure trump's endorsement is going to lose for governor and brian kemp will

beat david perdue. i am going to vote for brian kemp even though david perdue went to sunday school with me. in the senate, it seems that trump's candidate herschel walker is going to win, but i would remind anyone who is going to vote for that man you will be voting for a confessed wife beater and i do not think that is a wise choice to have in our senate. host: that was jimmy in athens, georgia. when it comes to the polling in that race brian kemp seems to be ahead heading into the final stretch. david purdue has been touting president trump's endorsement for months. this was his campaign ad from earlier this spring right after the endorsement. [video clip] >> from president trump. >> the democrats walked over brian kemp. he was afraid of stacy "the

hoax" abrams. brian kemp let us down. >> david purdue is the only candidate for governor endorsed by president donald trump. >> david purdue is an outstanding man. he is tough, smart, he has my complete and total endorsement. vote for david purdue. host: david purdue's campaign ad from earlier this spring. the polling showing brian kemp expected to win on tuesday. we will see what happens when the voting actually takes place. ahead of that primary a lot stories about whether president trump is regretting that decision to endorse purdue. this from nbc news, the campaign limps into the final stretch. that story getting pushback from the former president, placing a statement on his social media

and his website saying that the kemp campaign and folks and be -- and false nbc has put out a false campaign. brian kemp was the worst governor in the company on election integrity, the former president with his comments. asking republicans only this morning your thoughts on the 45th president's influence on the gop. do you think it is too much? do you think it is about right? do you think it is about not enough? this is melba. caller: i think it is about right. people of politics evolve. when we look back and learn our immediate lessons we benefit. trump had it going on for us. i think he had us going in the right direction, but because of our old personal petty ways, we

have a tendency to undermine our success. we may get a shot at it again if he runs, i hope so. host: you think it is about right. we are asking about former president trump but what are your thoughts on former vice president mike pence? i ask because it is the former vice president that endorsed against former president trump's candidate, supporting brian kemp for governor. caller: you asking about invisible mike pence? who cares. host: that was melba in houston. this is ted in washington, new jersey. caller: good morning. thank you for letting me speak. first of all, you have to look at the party carefully. the gop had lost two presidential elections. you have to look carefully when you are buying the gas now. it was two dollars a gallon. you have to look at the world

situations. all of these bad actors were stationary. you go to the grocery store, prices were stable, food was affordable and in abundance. it shows even if it is not trump, business experience matters in the presidency. these 40, 50-year politicians are just in there to help their friends. he is pro-life, i am pro-life. israel, he stabilized the middle east. i am just staying no man is perfect. if you go to a funeral and they eulogize someone, they make mistakes but we all grow. i cannot find anybody who did not vote for him. i am hoping we have a comeback and he is able to do good things. host: ted, it sounded like one of the reasons you liked president trump when you voted for him was he was an outsider,

is that correct? caller: yes, please. host: is he still an outsider? can you be an outsider after being president of the united states? caller: in his case, yes. you look at the people who have been there 40, 50 years like nancy, chuck schumer, dick durbin, that is on the democrat side but we have our guilty parties that have been there too long. it is obvious the everyday person, like he says, the working people, have become aware that you have the no current events. i liked when he went to north korea. he did not pal around with the dictator but he stabilized and reached out to him. many times said, keep your friends close but your enemies closer. he was able to do that. things were very stable in the world and very safe. the fellow we have now, the first thing he did was cut the

gas, pulled us out of afghanistan without getting the people out first. i don't know who exactly is telling the current president what to do. someday we will find out in a book when we are not here but he is not in charge. somebody or some people are in charge. with trump what you get is what you pay for. that is the guy. he is going to tell you what he is going to do, he is going to do it. other people are afraid. they are politically motivated. they are going to do something that benefits their future or their wallets. look at the amount of millionaires the become millionaires when they go to congress. even aoc. she started out and had nothing now she has a few bucks in the bank. you will never get her out. it is too much of a beneficial financial career. host: one quick follow-up. you said you liked it that the former president met with kim jong-un in north korea. how would you feel if joe biden did that?

if joe biden went to north korea? caller: joe biden is the president of the united states. i respect him and i respect the office. i personally do not think he is capable to do that. he says many misguided things. trump says misguided things. i hear biden, i try to listen to the speeches, but he goes on about maga is evil. it is similar to what china and every country does. they try to make their own country great so they can have enough prosperity to help other countries. if we break our country down and we are not strong, we become a nonentity. we are able to help these other poor factions if we keep ourselves great again. we have to be great. i just think joe biden is not articulate enough to do that. host: appreciate the call from washington, new jersey. on joe biden and north korea and his relationships, we will talk

more about that in our 8:00 hour this morning. we are going to be joined by shihoko goto of the wilson center in 45 minutes. stick around for that. the president traveling this weekend and early next weekend. his first trip as president to asia. duane out of baltimore on those that say president trump too much influence. why? caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. thank you for taking my call. i am just concerned when one person has too much control in the political system. it would be the same for biden. i think people need to step back and reevaluate our political leaders in general. i think trump has too much influence in what people are believing or wanting to believe nowadays in politics. host: did you vote for him? caller: i did not. host: who did you vote for in the republican primary?

caller: oh, i did not vote in the republican primary in baltimore. but i think he has too much influence in this one leader in the party. host: are you a republican? caller: independent. host: we are talking to republicans only. that is who we want to have this conversation with this morning because president trump's influence is being tested throughout the country in primaries that he decided to play in, decided to endorse in. one of those that president trump was involved in was pennsylvania, endorsing dr. oz, and that race going to a recount. not likely to be decided until june. from pennsylvania this is brian in fulsome, pennsylvania -- folsom, pennsylvania. caller: i think his influence is about right. i do not believe he has control but a captive audience on what

he says and does. i liken it to the party like a doctor's office. you go to his office and you see one doctor and then another. trump is a fixture. it may be his bedside manner as a doctor is a little bit off. he may smell like cigarettes or use bad language but the guy gets it done. he is an outsider, he will always be an outsider. he was impeached two times and that is ridiculous. washington people do not like him at all. there is probably 15%, 20% of republicans that cannot stand him but the rest like him. host: how much was the senate

republican primary in the keystone state? how much was that about trump in your mind? caller: i don't think it was much, i really don't. but i do think this state has problems with elections. and my personal opinion is i think people -- like when i went to vote, i think i should show my identification. i think it is absurd that we doubt. i think you should be able to determine -- i do not think it is asking for much. and it is not racist, it is just american. it should be the way it is. host: did you vote for dr. oz? ca: i did not. i voted for mccormick and for governor i actually voted for dave white. host: here is what some of the

voters in pennsylvania were seeing other televisions when it came to ads before the primary. this dr. oz's ad. [video clip] >> has been raining nonstop all day but that is not stop locals from turning out in force at a huge rally. >> republican senate runner dr. oz. >> we are going to have a lot of fun. it is time to talk about greatness for our country again. that starts with nominating my friend dr. oz. he is a great man. dr. oz, i have known him a long time. >> we love president trump, pennsylvania. [cheering] when you save the soul of pennsylvania you save the soul of america and america is watching. that is why president trump means the world to me you are here. >> dr. oz is a man who truly

believes in the maga movement. we can always count on dr. oz to stand up for the united states and you are going to send dr. oz to fight for you in the u.s. senate, and we will make america great again. thank you, pennsylvania. thank you very much. thank you. host: that was dr. oz's ad on president trump's endorsement. that race going to recount and not decided until early june. the person dr. oz will be facing is dave mccormick. here's one of his ads from before the primary touting his endorsements. [video clip] >> we have to have dave mccormick in the u.s. senate. >> the commonwealth of pennsylvania needs a fighter. we have a fighter in dave mccormick. >> he believes what you believe. ♪

>> supporting my friend dave mccormick. >> he is the best. host: and then the other key player in that primary, kathy barnett, conservative commentator. she posted on her youtube page ahead of the primary an interview she had in which she said, president trump was wrong to endorse dr. oz in that race. kathy barnett from her youtube page. we will show you that when we have it. as we pull that up we will go to sophia in new york city that says president trump has too much influence. good morning.

caller: good morning, john. yes, mr. trump, he was a registered democrat. i want people to know that. all his life. yes, he came back like he used the fake news and make america great again. he hijacked the republican party, the conservative party. him, i have watched sean hannity and tucker, i have prayed every day. i have been calling for five years. i have been watching c-span almost 40 years. i am 72 years old, john, but i am praying something is going to change. the only change that can happen

is i wish he stay away. if you want to be president again, wait for the right time. now beside fox news we have newsmax, it is unbelievable. the only thing we can do is please vote on your heart. host: that is sophia out of new york city. and now we will show you that interview kathy barnett posted on her youtube page ahead of that senate primary in pennsylvania same president trump should have endorsed her. [video clip] >> the number one question i am getting asked about the pennsylvania elections, as if i had some secret phone line to president trump, but everyone is asking, what is trump endorsing dr. oz for? what is your take in all of that? >> that was perhaps the best thing that has ever happened for

our campaign. the only thing that could have been better is if president trump-endorsed me. but apart from endorsing me, the best thing he could have done was endorse oz. from that moment on the endorsement came out, or i saw it 8:00 p.m. saturday night, sunday morning my twitter followers jumped up 13,000. it continues to go up. every single poll prior to that endorsements, roughly 41%, 51%, were always considered undecided. that has started going down significantly because a high name id works both ways. dr. oz's name id is so high we know he is not a conservative. people are rejecting it. we love you, president trump, we can walk and chew gum at the same time and we can appreciate

what president trump did for us, but president trump is not jesus. he gets to be wrong in on this endorsement he is wrong. host: kathy barnett, that interview before the pennsylvania republican primary. it is now a two way race between dr. oz and david mccormick. asking republicans only in this first segment your thoughts on former president trump's influence on the gop. do you think it is not enough, too much, just right? cheryl in daytona beach, florida saying it is not enough. caller: hey, listen, the democratic party has changed so radically, so sadly. it is not my grandfather's democratic party. it was not trump the politician, it was trump the policies. we had this druggist economy,

lowest unemployment across all groups of people. what he tried to do for the prison system to get low-level violators out of prison, punk money into black communities, give the hbc's the money they needed. he tried to work for all of us. if you look at his speeches and the things he said, he always tried so hard to be positive. legal immigration is good for our country. what is going on at the border is not. i love this country. i only wanted people in it that would fight for our people, our values, and today we do not have that. you look at biden's speeches, everyone of them are divisive, very angry. i have never, ever seen a man

speak like that before a podium as much as he has. i can only pray for this country and the people around the world that are going to be affected by what this country does. host: you mentioned what is going on at the border. some news yesterday on that front. u.s. district judge robert summerhays issued implement every injunction that stopped the biden administration and its plan to terminate title 42, which led to the swift expulsion of most unauthorized border crossers since the earliest days of the pandemic. the judge sided with states that said the influx would impose costs on them for services such as health care and education that the government should have considered. the nationwide injunction is a blow, the washington post writes, to reopen the border at the homeland security body will

continue expelling migrants. that from the washington post. that news coming yesterday afternoon. elaine says president trump's influence is about right. caller:caller: i found president trump really entertaining myself. even though he would call people by derogatory names like "horse face" or something like that. they were not hurtful of the person themselves. they would not go to the core of the person. names can hurt you, but the influence he has over the republican party because, just like the woman from florida said, he took us from one realm to another realm. he really brought us together.

i wish the media had not been so derogatory toward him. had they not, i think he could have brought the country together. i never heard him say a bad word about any race. i never heard him say a bad word about any faith. he was really a nice person even though he would lash out at people that got after him. i think he has the influence because of his policies and the things he wanted to promote for the united states. host: do you think joe biden is a nice person? caller: i think joe biden is a puppet man. i think he is being led.

if you cannot talk add live with reporters -- ab lib with reporters -- he got out of the limousine and they were asking him questions. he had a teleprompter. i was going, who has a teleprompter when they get out of a limousine? host: this is tony in tampa, florida that says donald trump has too much influence on the gop. go ahead. caller: i have got to admit, sir, i cannot believe all this trump. when we have candidates we can have like cotton, hpence, cruz, desantis, and trump lost 11 million votes to joe biden. we lost arizona, georgia,

republican strongholds. we lost the senate. we lust governorships -- l we lost governorships. his gdp was 2.9% with the tax cuts. corporations flatlined on hand. he had to feed the stock market with printed money. writers from forbes, wall street journal said he was never worried about the inflation. we are the united states, we can handle anything. he borrowed, borrowed, borrowed, printed, printed, printed. this guy that promised at every rally would build 15 miles of wall when george bush built 394

miles of wall. he made obamacare more profitable by taking the tax off of it. he was supposed to get rid of that. host: what do you think about this poll? the nbc news poll out last weekend that found a good chunk of republican primary voters preferred somebody else would take the reins of leading the party? 33% of republican primary voters believed trump was a good president but it is time for new leaders and 10% said he was a bad president and it is time for their party to move on. i assume you fall into the latter category. caller: absolutely. we cannot have him run again. this woman said he united the party. are you kidding? you gave the numbers that show the opposite. this inflation we have, biden has not helped, but i'm going to tell you something, 36% of the

debt that was from steven forbes who was a terrific person when it comes to economics. you do not get any better than mr. forbes. he was as conservative as can be. everybody stood by while this guy was crashing the country. laura ingraham, hannity, rush limbaugh, all these great conservative radio broadcasters and i cannot believe they backed him. the minute he did not build the wall, the minute he was taken away from that, they should jumped on him and said, we will throw you to the dogs. he promised. this guy was such a con artist and you got people that will tell you in a grocery store the wall is built. look at all the illegal immigration happening because he did not keep his promise. host: that was tony out of tampa, florida. comments from social media.

this from bird saying, his influence climbs daily throughout america. continuing allegations and investigations provide proof of the all-out effort to eliminate his overwhelming commanding presence. this is frank in oregon, trump is a great deal of influence and can sway many state votes. c-span review saying, blacks and hispanics are bailing out the democratic party. gas prices embarrassing the country. john and manchester, connecticut, says he does not have enough influence. why? where else would you like to see his influence? caller: good morning. can you hear me? host: yes, sir. caller: thank you for taking my call. i think president trump did not do enough to change the republican party. the man was just called and harped on the fact he never finished the wall. he cannot finish the wall if he

does not have the money and the money comes from congress and congress never gave him the money. whatever he failed to do it was because the democrats and, of course, prevented him from doing so. nevertheless, he accepted the decisions of the court. i wish she could have done more on immigration. the wall should have been built. he did very well on research, drilling, and fracking for new sources of energy which is something the democrats positively hate. i think he could have deviated from the democrats and been more budget conscious to

decrease the deficit. it is better to be an influencer than be one who was influenced. biden is a puppet to the interest of the far left, marxist. host: got your point. john in circleville, ohio says the influence is about right. go ahead. caller: how are you doing? the last two callers are fairly inaccurate. president trump is responsible for 15 miles of the border wall

and i am looking on a site that he has built 458 miles over walls that were already there. those are accurate figures. democrats like to talk that they believe in stuff -- host: what did you think about president trump's influence in the buckeye state? played a role and was touted by j.d. vance. caller: i kind of changed my vote to support j.d. vance. initially i was thinking about josh mandel. i just got fed up with his party.

i think vance will beat tim ryan. the one thing is the governor's race. dewine locked down the state but she cannot manage anything. dewine is kind of like a rhino. he tends to do democratic policies and pretends to be a republican. that concerns me. host: that is george in ohio. another example of a trump endorsement be quickly turned into a campaign ad. this ahead of the primary in ohio from the campaign of j.d. vance. [video clip] >> trump has officially endorsed j.d. vance. >> j.d. will continue the right to secure our borders, protect the unborn, get rid of corrupt

politicians, and stuff joe biden. j.d. vance, marine, author of "hillbilly elegy," america first conservative. >> i will take our fight to the u.s. senate. i am j.d. vance and i approve this message. host: that was j.d. vance's ad before the may primary. talking to republicans only this first hour of the washington journal as we ask about former president trump's influence on the gop. do you think it is not enough, just about right, too much? byron in tampa says it has been too much. why do you say that? caller: trump and fox news news control the party too much. we were the big tent party and when george h w bush did not act like a republican, we voted him

out. nowadays, anytime i talk to someone they are all saying the same thing. it sounds like they just watch fox news and repeat with a he ar or how much they love donald trump. 90% of these candidates just keep talking about how much they love donald trump and they have no issues. donald trump, donald trump, donald trump. the gop was the big tent party. many issues, many points of view would come together in making a few issues matter, like taxes were small government, and may be holding back some of the progressive movement. host: these candidates always have these talking points, they test these messages. they likely would not be saying these things if they did not think that is what republican

primary voters wanted to hear. what is that tell you about the state of the party? caller: well, it is an echo chamber. every person i talked to, they are repeating the same statements. they are mindless. i go to parties. if you say anything that is in the sense of fox news and donald trump, they will never talk to you again. you cannot think for yourself in the republican party anymore and in the democratic party, you can think for yourself a little bit but they are about the same. it is just puppeteer and and everyone -- puppeteering and everybody is just repeating what they had on the news. host: our next caller says his influence is not enough. caller: no sir, not enough. if you lived here and saw the people running across the street, and nobody wants to say,

hey, they are a bunch of lowlifes. we have to stand in line. we have to wait our turn. i speak english and perfect spanish and i went across the river in mexico to the first grade. i am educated because i wanted to get educated. the reason they say trump is because we need to get away from these politicians. the only thing they have done is ruined our country. we need to get away from these politicians. that is why we say trump, trump, trump. he turned into a politician for us. thank you, mr. trump. host: is he a politician now? caller: i do not know if he is a politician now. my parents were democrats, but hey, look at the gas prices. what were the gas prices then? you can blame anybody you want to blame but look at the way

they were then in the way they are now. host: that was joe in texas. another state holding primaries tuesday, alabama. bruce says president trump's influence is not enough. go ahead. caller: hello. i don't know if it is enough or not enough, but some of the people he endorses to me are not the right ones. he started out with mo brooks. i agree with the lady in alabaster. i think katie britt is the one for alabama. when it comes to our governor race, i don't like kay ivey. blanchard, she is going to haul the illegal immigrants to the airport and make them pay for her bags. i used to work for the gated neighborhood she lives in, or still lives there which was 10

or 15 years ago. flew on their private jets to new york. i know a lot about them and i would not vote for blanchard at all. listen alabama, do not vote for her. kay ivey, do not vote for her. kim james is the one. that is all i got to say. host: that was bruce in alabama. peggy noonan in the wall street journal, her take on trump, his base, and what he is doing with his endorsements this midterm election cycle. she said last august i argued mr. trump is afraid of his base. the only entity in american politics he fears. the dynamics could be seen throughout the primary season. when you look at his endorsements you realize he was try to figure out where the base was and get their first.

-- there first. he was following not leading and they could tell, she writes. mr. trump targeted brian kemp for reasons of personal spleen. mr. kemp refused to bend it to pressure of results of the 2020 election so he had to be squished. the news poll will be unsquished last week. mr. trump increasingly appears to be chasing supporters as much as marshaling them. the so-called maga movement is a bottom up movement, not one that can be dictated from the top down. peggy noonan in the wall street journal today. this is whitaker, north carolina. good morning. wiley, are you with us?

we will go to david in stafford springs, connecticut. caller: good morning. you get to a point but what i don't understand is whether democrat, republicans, these people are supposed to represent us and get things done. all i see is a pony and dog show and no account of what the people need to make our country stronger. it is not just democrat and republican's, it is all of us together making our country stronger. our country has been sold out. sold out to other countries. our manufacturing, we cannot manufacture our own baby formula. everything has gone to a different country. what is wrong with everybody? we need to wake up and we need to hold representatives

accountable to keep this country strong and go in the right direction and to work together. enough is enough. we need to wake up. host: lincoln, nebraska, this is sam who says the former president has too much influence on the party. caller: the problem is as i see it, trump is going to ruin the party. he only controls about 40% of the vote. his candidate that he backed, he showed up and did a rally for him, but a third person got into the race. the two people that ran against his candidate outdid him 2-1. host: just for our voters who

are not as familiar, you're talking about charles herbst er. caller: and he spent lots of money on this campaign. he started a year ago. the candidate that got him was somebody that the party found that they felt could beat him, and he did, and the other person who got in late almost beat him too. in conservative nebraska he cannot carry. 60% of people in this country will not vote for that radical agenda. we had the right message, we just have the wrong messenger. that is all i can say because i am disappointed, january 6 changed my view on our political system. we have to get back in the middle-of-the-road and that goes for both sides of the party. host: that was sam and nebraska.

back to the keystone state, anthony in green town. good morning. caller: good morning, john. good morning, c-span. happy saturday to everybody. host: happy saturday. caller: anybody who calls in on the not enough or too much, they were never a republican or still not a republican. trump transformed the republican party. the report we can -- republican party was a no spine, never fought the democrats on anything the democrats ran all over them. trump put spine into the republican party and gave them the fight to take this country back. the guy from connecticut was right. we gave away all our manufacturing. everything is going to china. trump said, we've got to bring that back. we have to make our country work again. we have to have our country make things again, make it strong again. that is his message and that is

what people loved about trump and still love about trump and will love about trump forever. he thought this country needed to be taken care of first before we sent millions of dollars around the world. host: do you think trumpism as it is called, that is something that could exist beyond donald trump? a headline from newsweek this week says, trumpism is moving beyond trump and that is good for the likes of ron desantis. what comes after trump in your mind? caller: trump has reformed the republican party. you have the mitch mcconnells who will not fight for anything. trump made fighters out of republicans in the base. you have candidates who want to fight for this country. trumpism is not going away after donald trump. if he steps out or does not do anything more in politics, trumpism will continue. it is not trumpism, that is the

wrong word. it is patriotism. he brought back patriotism to this country. he brought back the message to like this country again. this country is becoming a globalist country under the democrats. most americans don't want that. host: anthony in pennsylvania. sean in colorado, you are next. caller: i agree with the last gentleman but as far as not enough goes, the guy needs to get back in there and remove the state department. the swat creatures are what are taking him down. look what happened with russia. there are so many people in there, look what happened to their countries in the last 18 months. host: if he was not able to do that in four years, what gives you confidence he will be able

to drain the swamp in four more years? caller: he should have had four years because the last election was -- i mean, this guy has destroyed american, he destroyed gas prices, the colorado ranches. host: but if he was not able to drain the swamp in the first four years, what gives you confidence he would be able to do it if he had another four? caller: he needs to go in and wake up and fire every single one of them. we do not have the kind of money we are printing. this country will be destroyed. this will be venezuela. host: that was sean in colorado. dennis in florida. good morning. caller: yes. as far as president trump's influence on the party, it is his influence on the country. we have supply chain crisis, energy crisis, we have a border crisis.

host: anything else you want to add? caller: yeah. it is conservative, systemic policies that got us to be the world's energy leader, inflation at 1.4%, and the border incursions from other countries down to -- down 80% from what was in the past. that changed in 16 months. why? because president biden rescinded 148 different executive orders and everything went haywire. host: elliot is next out of south carolina. good morning. caller: hello. my name is elliot. i live in bluffton, south carolina. donald trump has been the lightning rod to galvanize the

republican party. men like mccain who are rhinos, they were republicans in name only. they betrayed the republican feeling while small government heavy on the armed forces. these other republicans who are leaders betrayed us. they put gold in their pockets. they did not protect the regular people and they also did not fight against the marxist democrats. trump is doing that. and as you asked the other guy just now, he was unwise for not destroying the swamp by firing them, by kicking them out. i know it would have been hard but kick them out. thank you.

this is elliot from south carolina. host: scott in dayton, ohio. caller: good morning. it is not about trump. this is about the people, the american people. item one of the last of the baby boomers. i am 65 years old and i grew up every day we would get the pledge of allegiance in school and we said prayer. we were brought up a certain way. we have been frustrated with the government whether it be the democrats or republicans. this government has failed the people. esther trump came -- mr. trump came in and made us aware that we do have a voice as a people, not a republican, not as democrat, as a man working hard all his life in this country with the goal to own a house, raise a family, and to be safe.

mr. trump put that out in front of everybody and said, here, it is about you. it is not about him, it is about us. it is about us having a fair and just government. it just so happens the republicans fall underneath the morality and the value system that most of this country wants. host: wade in edgefield, south carolina. good morning. caller: good morning, john. thank you for taking my call. i like trump, i voted for him both times. i think he is doing a lot of good and some weird stuff as well. what i would like to see the gop party is tim scott and nikki haley to get in there. i would love them to get together in the white house. either way could go president but we need good, sensible

people to represent the gop party and i think tim scott and nikki haley would be great. host:host: i've got to ask, you said president trump did some weird stuff. what were you referring to? caller: during the pandemic he said some crazy comments and along the way he had some out of line comments, is for the pandemic. overall i do think he was a pretty decent president. he was fighting for the american people i think. then again, i think someone like tim scott and nikki haley would be awesome people in the white house. not only for the republicans but for all the people. i hope the gop party can see it that way and step up to the

plate. let's vote for them. another trump would just be agony and what we have seen the past four years. let's get someone in really stae people and intelligent, smart manner, and take them on. host: that is weighed in south carolina. our last caller in this segment. but stick around. 20 more to talk about, including we will be joined by olson center's shihoko goto to discuss president biden's first presidential trip to asia and the security issues at play in that region. later, as the nation gets ready to celebrate the hundredth anniversary of the lincoln memorial next week, the washington journal's -- an american history tv are taking some time to focus on the 16th president and what the memorial has come to represent. we will be joined by harold

holzer for that discussion. we will be right back. ♪ >> next week on the c-span networks, the house is not in session, but the senate will meet starting tuesday. senators are expected to debate terrorism legislation following the mass shooting in buffalo. on wednesday, live on the c-span now app and c-span.org, the u.s. the show envoy for iran testifies over this and foreign relations committee about negotiations over potential nuclear agreement between united states and iran. then at 11:00 a.m. eastern on c-span the house energy and commerce committee hears from heads of leading baby of -- baby formula manufacturers. on thursday at 9:30 a.m. on c-span the senate armed services committee holds a confirmation hearing for the reappointment of

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your unfiltered view of government. she should -- >> there are a lot of places to get political information, but only at c-span do you get it straight from the source. no matter where you're from or where you stand on the issues, c-span is america's network. unfiltered. unbiased. word for word. if it happens here, or here, or here, or anywhere that matters, america is watching on c-span. powered by cable. >> "washington journal" continues. host: a focus now on president biden's trip to south korea and japan. our guest is shihoko goto, deputy director of the wilson center's asian program. what is the goal of this trip,

and why is this trip happening right now when there is so much else going on in the world, especially in eastern europe? guest: i can answer that in one sentence. to say that america is back. america is back as a pacific power. if biden can actually deliver that message and have people believe him, his trip will have been a success. but as you said, this whole trip comes at a time when the united states is mired in a relationship with russia, great instability in europe, a lot of expectations to really address issues across the atlantic. can actually be engaged in asia, in the indo pacific? certainly there is a lot of demand on the part of the united states's allies and partners because there is a very real existential threat that comes from china. there is also the immediate right of north korea and the uncertainties it provides too,

but if biden can actually say that the united states can play on multiple fronts, that it remains committed to europe, to european security, but also to asian security as well as economic stability, then he will have succeeded. host: three days in south korea, then president biden moves on to the -- to japan. in your mind who is the more important audience here? is the people of south korea, japan, or china and north korea and their leaders? guest: i would say all of the above, what item really needs to do is make sure that seoul and tokyo feel they are equally loved by washington and both equally important in this long-term challenge china poses on multiple fronts. host: what are the highlights of the trip in your mind? we saw president take a tour of one of these chip factories,

semi conductor factories. what are the highlights you are going to be watching for? guest: the fact that straight off the plane he goes to the semiconductor manufacturing company samsung is a tremendous symbolism of the united states being committed to working with partners, wanting to get korean commitment to ensure there is stability in the chip sector. we have had a lot of disruptions doing covid. we are going to need more chips. it is a technology that will only increase in need as we become more integrated, digitally, and the united states is not making them enough. by going there i think that that has shed light on the need for economic security. i will also be looking at some of the other visits he will be making. yes, the bilateral meetings he has with the new korean president, to be sure, a face-to-face meeting with the

japanese prime minister. but the big thing will be two things. one is the quadrilateral summit meeting between not just japan and the united states, but also india and a new australian prime minister who will be elected on sunday. in the launch of a u.s. economic vision called the indo pacific economic framework. host: you mentioned the new south korean president during a picture of president biden from the wall street journal this morning touring the samsung factory. what should viewers know about resident unit? -- president yoon. guest: he is not a professional politician. he is a prosecutor by training. he has an agenda where he really needs to ensure that he is up to the meetings and national challenges that the koreans face, but also korea does really want to work closely with the united states.

korea wants to play a bigger global role. host: we are talking about president biden's trip to south korea and japan. if you have questions, thoughts on the u.s. relationship to the region now would be a great time to call in. the lines split as usual. democrats, (202) 748-8000 is the number. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. as folks are calling in, another story about what is going on in the region. experts worry north korea will not accept help. president biden was asked about that specifically, and about meeting with the leadership in north korea at his joint press conference earlier today. here's what president biden had to say. pres. biden: the answer with regard to, what i meet, what i provide vaccines -- would i

meet, what i provide vaccines for north korea, what i prepare to meet? yes, we have offered scenes not only to north korea but china as well. we are prepared to do that immediately. we have got no response. regard to whether i would meet with the leader of north korea, that would be dependent on whether he was sincere and whether it was serious. host: shihoko goto, your thoughts on the idea of president biden meeting with kim jong-un, and explain what is going on with covid in north korea. guest: regarding covid, north korea had been able to stave off the covid onslaught, but it seems like it is really picking up, and most of the people there are not vaccinated. it is not from the lack of trying on the part of western powers to try to provide vaccines for the north korea, but they simply are not accepting, and so that will be a

challenge. member that north korea, although it is very isolated, it does share a border with both south korea and china, and it can be porous. so there is this great concern about north korea actually being this hotbed of yet another wave of the coronavirus. regarding impossibility of biden having a meeting, with north korean leadership, of course the trump administration really started engagement, we engagement with -- reengagement with north korea. the process of that seems less likely given that the meetings have not led to the kind of results that the united states and its allies have wanted to see. that is to say, there has been this need for north korea to denuclearize, ratchet down its military aspirations.

the opposite is actually true. so, the incentive, providing vaccines, providing financial aid, none of that have worked. overtures diplomatically have not worked. so why should we expect a different result by doing the same thing? host: we expect president biden to participate in a ceremony to honor both american can and republic of korean soldiers who died in the war, but president biden not set to go to the demilitarized zone. is there an expectation that if it american presidents are over there they should go to the dmz? guest: there has been expectations he would go, and i believe it was in the initial itinerary. but given the risks and logistical issues that occur with it, i think it is prudent for him to just continue with the itinerary as planned. host: shihoko goto with us this morning from the wilson center. deputy director of the asia

program. taking your phone calls and questions about u.s. policy in the asia-pacific region. steve is up first out of san jose. line for republicans. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. ms. goto, i would like to know your opinion on an issue. regarding taiwan and president biden. i am so concerned that if china should invade taiwan that we will not defend it. and, specifically we will not come to their aid because of the financial entanglements that we have with china. another example would be the pharmaceutical industry. we get 90% of our pharmaceuticals from china.

and also one other issue is the black male issue. regarding hunter biden, his laptop, and his dealings with china that they might threaten to expose. so, please comment on that for me. guest: yeah. on taiwan, i could not agree with you more in so far -- insofar as taiwan is on the minds of those in the region, as well as the united states. as i said at the beginning, what is happening right now in ukraine is really keeping the white house very much engaged on the european theater. but one of the topics for discussion of great concern is that, what are the lessons to be learned at this stage from the invasion of ukraine the russians? for asia.

the consensus seems to be that china will not see moving into taiwan as a cakewalk. so hopefully this has staved off china from immediately taking any kind of action towards taiwan. for now. but that doesn't change the fact that china does see taiwan as a critical national interest. that it sees a reunification with taiwan as one of its core national interests. and it is prepared to take action and towards that ultimate goal sooner or later. i think we have pushed that to a later stage, hopefully, but what the united states has been doing is that it has been enhancing its's -- it's rhetorical support for taiwan. it has given taiwan greater military support. i hope is it will also provide greater economic partnerships by furthering relations between the

united states and taiwan as well. i should point out that taiwan dominates the semiconductor industry in the world. it is the single biggest producer of advanced chips. and so that alone makes it a tremendous partner for the united states. but when it comes to this whole invasion issue, should china take military action against taiwan, will the united states come to its defense? how will it come to its defense? expectations will the united states have an coordination with its partners, such as japan? japan has a pacifist constitution, but will it actually worked together with the united states in defense of taiwan? these are some of the questions that will be very much in the minds of leadership this weekend, and it will be discussed in great detail. so, to what extent we will

actually get any public statements about it i do not know, but i do know that there will be a mention of taiwan and there will certainly always be this verbal commitment to protect taiwan's economy and prosperity. host: why verbal commitment? is there a formal treaty on that? guest: so, one of the problems, of course, is that the united states does not officially recognize taiwan. that if there is a china, that goes to beijing, the prc. they are trying to do is be able to ensure support for taiwan whilst also not upsetting the apple cart. this is called the strategic ambiguity strategy on the part of the united states. there is a great call right now for strategic clarity so that there is a better understanding of what exactly the expectations

are and what u.s. commitment to taiwan may be. host: book -- brooklyn, new york. this is chris, a democrat. good money. caller: the u.s. has 50,000 troops in japan, the most of anywhere outside the u.s. why does that make sense? guest: well, it makes sense insofar as the japanese bases becomes a foothold for the united states across the indo pacific. if there is a issue in taiwan if there is an issue regarding north korea, if there are problems in the south china sea, east china sea regarding chinese aggression to the united states, united states does not have to come all the way from where we are now. has this space, this firm foothold in japan to make it easier, logistically, for a greater u.s. presence. and i would argue that it is in

america's national interest to remain committed to protecting the stability of the region, because the united states is so integrated to the region as well. host: silver spring, maryland. this is marie, and. good morning. caller: good morning. my question is kind of like the last question. i'm wondering why the u.s. still has such a huge military presence in south korea and is paying for the vast majority of it when south korea is a very rich country and they have their own military? guest: i think that was an argument that was certainly made tremendously by the trump administration. and the argument is that, actually they are paying for a lot of the costs incurred by the u.s. troops, and they get all sorts of benefits as well i being stationed in south korea, as well as in japan. the bigger question, though, is to what extent should that

financial burden be borne in terms of the actual military equipment, by korea, as well as japan? they are both certainly prepared to increase spending, and i think in the case of japan they are actually, now talking about doubling its military defense expenditure, so there is this expectation both from the united states, but also from the governments in the region itself to say that this region is a very dangerous place right now. and all hands need to be on deck, and there needs to be greater financial commitment, but also more boots on the ground. and that is not just american military, it also japanese and korean military personnel as well. host: a question from the pages of the wall street journal this money. who won the u.s.-china trade

war? they wrote that neither country got the concessions they thought and damage their economies. vietnam and the others who stepped in to that breach. what do you think? guest: i think neither one. i think the trade war is ongoing, but the ultimate goal of the trade war was not simply about increasing exports or decreasing the imports we might get from china. it really is about boosting the american economy and boosting economic resilience of the united states. that is as much a domestic economic agenda as it is a trade issue. what i think the trade war has done is that it has led to a lot of reconsideration of the united states about its trade objectives. washington is now coming up with this new economic plan so that it can focus on issues that are

not simply about boosting imports or decreasing imports and boosting exports. it really is about supply chain resiliency, incentives for decarbonization, and more sustainable and environmentally friendly industries and technologies that emerge. greater coordination on corruption -- against corruption and taxation harmonization. these are the kind of issues the united states does need to push forward with, and i think we are seeing some momentum forward in that direction. host: whatever happened to the transpacific partnership, and could you see something like that coming back? guest: asia definitely wants america to join the new transpacific partnership, which is called the cptpp. host: cptpp, got it. guest: as you may recall, the

united states pulled out of the tpp, with the advent of the trump administration. but the biden administration has not made any overtures to move forward on rejoining either. multilateral trade deals are very unpopular in washington, on both sides of the political aisle. but economic security in asia is national security. it means to not just economic -- leads to not just economic competitiveness, but is an important part of ensuring their future growth. if there are opportunities for trade relations to be enhanced, every opportunity should be seized. host: if the tpp was being pushed by the obama administration one president biden was vice president, what changed? guest: the world has changed insofar as there is a lack of

appetite on the part of the united states to work multilaterally on the trade front. however, the world has also changed insofar as the united states is actually an outlier. we see the tpp moving forward. we see another trade agreement in asia emerging called the r sap. we see europe trying to come up with new trade deals as well. there is a huge appetite in the world for new partnerships, new ways to work together at the united states is really not part of the mix at the moment. host: richmond, virginia. thanks for waiting. caller: yes, good morning. this is what you said. i am a history buff. russia and japan have war. that is one of the reasons russia did not declare war on japan. when world war ii started.

russia declared war on japan after world war ii. in asia, in north korea and south korea, got japan. it was always a question about why the united states did not want china to attack japan. that is a fact. host: let's talk about russia -japanese relations now. guest: japan became the first asian country to beat a western power, that is to say russia at the turn of the 20th century. host: the russo japanese war. guest: the russo japanese war. so japan and russia have -- that has been one of the key developments in bilateral relations. but as was pointed out, the -- towards the end of world war ii russia joined the allied forces, and it actually took some of the

-- what the japanese called the northern territories, the islands in the north of japan. japan actually does not have a formal peace treaty with russia today. -- to date. the reason why japan did not take a strong stance against putin and he invaded crimea is because there has been this great need for japan -- at least claim part of those islands russia has occupied, has claimed sense 1945 -- since 1945. there has been hope that japan could get at least two of those islands. there is still no peace treaty. negotiations for territorial claims we consider asian is still on ice. by joining with the united states and europe in defending

ukraine, i think japan's relations with russia are still kind of on hold as well. host: what do we need to know about japanese prime minister from yoshida? guest: he has great experience in the japanese government. he has held a number of ministerial posts, including foreign minister. he is a man who originally comes from hiroshima. that has been one of his defining moral compasses, to say that when we talk about nuclear proliferation or buildup of the nuclear arms race he will say, i'm from hiroshima and i am loath to go into this idea of nuclear arms race. which is becoming increasingly a much-discussed topic, as you know. there is no nato equivalent in

asia. but there is a great deal of talk about enhancing regional military partnerships. there is also discussions about which countries could actually consider housing some of the nuclear arms the united states may want to have in the region. so this becomes this big issue in regional -- in the region. and i think that, again, this will be one of the topics for the -- for discussion at the quad as well as the bilateral. host: massachusetts. thanks for waiting. go ahead. caller: thank you very much. i have a couple of questions for you. one is in a tour like this, how does it operate? the mechanics of it? does president biden have a linguist that speaks japanese or korean, or one of the chinese

languages to tell him, or does everyone assume they are going to speak english? the other thing i was wondering is, are you going to bring up anything about the territorial ambitions of china in the vicinity of the philippines? and finally, does someone from your olson center asia program accompanied this or do you make the independent analysis at the finish of it? ask for considering my question. host: dues don't want -- do you want to start with the last part, the wilson center? guest: the wilson center was established as an act of congress. it is an independent tank, but whilst we provide analysis, we are not part of any government, and we are not part of the biden administration. we are not traveling with it. but what we do have is great access to those on the hill and those in the administration. so, we have had a lot of

discussions with administration people before the trip. i have had a lot of discussions with those in economic posts in particular about some of the issues that should or could be on the table. so, -- host: the questions were on the mechanics of the trip, then china and the philippines. guest: interpretation. they have professional interpreters on site. so they have simultaneous interpretation, but i think that is an interesting question, because we talk about, for instance, the united states having a special relationship, of course that goes back to decades, centuries of close work and cooperation. but there is that kind of language and visibility to connect people without the need

for an interpreter. i think it does, unfortunately, i don't think either the japanese or the south korean leaders are able to speak english at the level they not need an interpreter, and so things will not get lost in translation so there will be interpreters. a little bit that immediate rapport maybe sacrificed as a result of that filter. i'm territorial disputes, china has territorial claims in the south sign a she -- south china sea. certain plea the ongoing claims -- certainly the ongoing claims to the south china sea will be an issue.

host: ted has been waiting a while in miami, florida. caller: could you tell me a little bit of taiwan's history and has it ever been a territory and a part of china and if china invades taiwan, will japan help defend it? thank you. guest: basically it comes from during the mile area of china -- the mau era in china and study it own independent government, independent from the communist government of china. what has happened is most countries in the world, the exception of 14 countries, acknowledge china to be the

china that represents all china, including taiwan. this becomes a tremendous challenge because officially the united states does not recognize taiwan as a country. for instance, there is no taiwanese embassy in washington. taiwan's interests are represented by eight representative office. so there is this really complicated issue of being able to use the right language and describe taiwan that is a country but effectively acting as an independent government, for instance a member of the united nations and that has been

a tremendous challenge for taiwan. host: who are some of the 14 who have taken the step to officially recognize taiwan? guest: most are in latin america and the pacific islands. some would argue that these are countries that really depend greatly on taiwanese development of systems, so the motivation is to get more money. they can manipulate that and say, well, if you don't give us what we needed, we will turn to the chinese. that puts taiwan in a tough spot. at the same time it does give taiwan more recognition in the

international community. host: shihoko goto is the deputy director at the wilson center. thank you for coming in this morning. coming up, as the nation celebrates the hundredth anniversary of the lincoln memorial dedication next week, we are going to focus on the memorial, 16th president and what the memorial has come to represent. we will be joined by abraham lincoln scholar harold holzer for that discussion. now it is open forum. democrats (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, independents (202) 748-8002.

it we will get your calls right after the break. >> book tv every sunday on c-span features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. at 9:00 p.m. eastern, a journalist with his book about the history of the american right wing since the early of 20th century and the populist challenge to mainstream conservatism which culminated in the presidency of president trump. former secretary of defense mark esper shares his book, secret oath, on his time serving in the trump administration. watch book tv every sunday on c-span2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at book tv.org. >> c-span has unfiltered

coverage of the u.s. response to russia's invasion of crane aired the latest from officials, white us, as well as congress and international perspectives from the united nations and hornet leaders all on the c-span networks, the c-span now free mobile app, and c-span.org/ukraine, our web resource page where you can watch the latest videos on demand and follow tweets from journalists on the ground. >> c-span bring to an unfiltered view of government. our newsletter recaps the day for you, from the halls of congress to daily press briefings to remarks from the president. scan the qr code at the bottom to sign up for this email and stay up-to-date and everything happening in washington each day. subscribe today using the qr

code or use it -- c-span.org/connect anytime. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are taking time to turn the phones over to you with the open forum, letting you call him with any public policy issue, democrats (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, independents (202) 748-8002. this from the associated press, president joe biden while traveling overseas in asia had signed legislation granting ukraine another $40 billion in u.s. support as it continues to battle the russian invasion of the legislation includes $20 billion in military and other money as well.

danny and at yuma, arizona, republican, what do you want to talk about? caller: i have a couple things real quick. i live on the border, 20 minutes from the border. it is bad down here. i challenge c-span, not you, but your colleagues maybe to come down into a live broadcast to sea with the democrats have created. it is terrible. yuma is a small city, we can't handle all of these people coming in. i have empathy for them but not only the people want to come or illegally but they are bringing over sentinel and other kinds of drugs. host: did you see the news yesterday that a judge ruled

that title 42, the pandemic yard restriction has to continue for a while. the biden administration was getting ready to lift it last week. any thoughts on that? caller: that is the last will and the toolbox. why doesn't the so-called borders czar and joe come down here? i was happy to see that. but that, it is just terrible down here. i don't know what else to tell you. host: we talked about the 18,000 number with the head of the border patrol union on this

program that long ago. if you want to check out that segment, you can do so on our website. thanks for the call from yuma this morning. we will head to the land of lincoln, medicine illinois, glenn, democrat. caller: good morning. i don't know, i have listened to you this morning and the republicans who get on their mind biden's lapsed -- laptop, keystone pipeline, everything except throwing over the government. know what is going to happen? it is about time for justice to get in there and clean out the rats nest, you have seven or

eight really in over their heads . nothing is going on with them. let's get all of them and put them in jail where they belong. host: are you talking about arresting members of congress? caller: that's right. you have a few in their who have no business being there. host: this is dave in velde oso, georgia, republican. caller: think i could refer the call for me. we talk about arresting people, but talk about hundred and joe. i was wondering. i couldn't get in half-hour or so ago when you were talking and this produced run -- purdue run,

i wonder if the media would define it as a purdue when, a trunk win or a pole loss. host: what do you think the storyline would be? caller: secondary thing would be produced -- produce -- purdue wins. i wonder what would happen when the polls were so wrong, they take a look at themselves and say maybe we are flawed in some way. host: where you think that stands right now? caller: to tell you the truth, i don't see where purdue is doing much, but i think probably cap is ahead.

host: fox news pole had camped ahead at 34. you think it is that far? caller: really don't know. i kind of doubt it, purdue is well known radio are bad feelings after the 2020 election. host: do you think president trump should have endorsed produce -- purdue? caller: i don't know. that is up to him. this administration, when they take a stand, they take a stand at the people. host: primary day is tuesday in the peach state and also in

alabama with key government and senate races we are keeping track of. we are going to talk more about the senate and gubernatorial races tomorrow and our 9:00 our. we will be joined by jessica taylor of the political report. to gloucester, massachusetts, susanna, good morning. caller: thank you for during this. our industry is the oldest with fishing. for the last almost 30 years we have been stagnated, not because there is no fish but regulations have stagnated the industry.

host: what is the example of a weird regulation hurting the fishing and gloucester? caller: there were folks who wrote rules that do not allow the fleet to innovate. the fleet is rooted in the late 1980's. host: why are they allowed to innovate? caller: they were written on bad metrics. the folks who wrote these rules, and this is something for both republicans and democrats to be mindful of, it meant well but got things wrong. the tragedy is folks cannot

penetrate. anyone who is in charge today does not need to identify with this. host: what is a role that is keeping them from innovating? what is the regulation. caller: they are forced to stay in the old boat. someone forced them to use hard right that is inefficient. folks are disheartened. they are heartbroken. the next generation is getting shaft. they will not see commercial

fishing. should bring in ecologists and find them how do you feed the nation with fish. host: thank you for bringing that up or that is why we do this open forum. greg illinois, democrat, you are up next. caller: good morning. i listen to your program every day and not once have i heard adoption as far as killing the babies. i don't understand why they

don't give them up for adoption. young couples would be happy to have them. host: this is janet, independent , good morning. caller: i am calling about the donald trump people calling in. our first segment was just for republicans only talking about trump influencing the party because of how much of a presence he had in the primary pair that is white we did that. -- at -- he had in the primary. that is why we did that. caller: supposedly for the first time donald trump note at his

feet. he never should have been president in the first place. he is a tool of vladimir putin plain and simple. vladimir putin is indeed the richest man in the world and they will continue worshiping him and doing what he tells them to do. how he became president is disgusting. host: florida, independent, good morning. caller: they are trying to stop the immigrants from coming across the border. there is no way to stop them. donald trump pays more taxes to china and he does the united states.

it was $209 in china. -- he pays $209 million in china. maybe we could do something about jared kushner making millions of dollars in saudi arabia. donald trump had the worst cabinet in history. everyone of them was a crook. you are not going to stop immigration. obama tried to do it, trump tried to do it, but you can go after the ones who hire them which is mostly farmers and republicans. restaurants are closing down because they can't get help. host: from georgia, democrat. caller: i am calling on the race with warnock and herschel

walker. herschel walker cannot even speak a straight sentence. host: i am pulling up the polling on that race. what do you think happened? herschel walker is expected to come out on top and his primary on tuesday. caller: probably in the primaries. but if he goes to the general election i doubt very seriously he will win. he cannot make a simple sentence he has not been in -- active in georgia since he played. as far as camp -- kemp, i am a democrat and i am going to support him in the primaries.

i love the way he took his stance with trump and i love the way our state stood their ground against trump. that is what leadership is about, taking a stance when it is not popular. host: forgive me for not knowing the georgia primary voting, is it an open primary where you can pick? caller: we have the option, but we have to go straight party and the general, but in the primaries we can go republican, democrat, and open ticket. host: i guess in the general it is only one to you are voting on i will take your point. that is laura in georgia. this is larry and northbrook, illinois, independent. caller: my comment is this, as a person who for many years has

opposed abortion, i was happy to see yesterday that the archbishop of san francisco barred nancy pelosi from the receiving of communion in the future. in terms of the integrity of the catholic church, i thought that was the right decision. if you stand for something, then you have to stand for something. it was discussed about president biden and i don't know what the clerical in delaware but i thought the letter he wrote was powerful. that is my comment. host: usa today with a story, the headline grave pelosi denied

communion by san francisco bishop. this is roland in upper mar brawl, democrat. caller: the issue with immigration, we shouldn't be doing immigration. we have jobs and no one to fill it. if we don't have anyone to produce, how can we have goods? if we don't want immigrants,

then we have to do the jobs. we need to look inwardly. host: just a couple minutes left in the open forum. dennis, pensacola, florida, republican, good morning. dennis, are you with us? tim, florida, independent, go ahead. tim, are you with us this morning? caller: yes, i am with you. host: what's on your mind? caller: we are in a world of trouble. host: we are in trouble for what? caller: i said just listening to the callers, we are in trouble.

host: what is your worry? caller: open borders, gas prices, the economy. it is all a joke. there is a pedophile running the country. he was in certain that she was inserted --he was in the asserted -- he was inserted. host: next caller. caller: when trump left office, we were talking inflation, high gas prices. we didn't have immigration problems. the caller that said we can't control immigration, trump had immigration solved. biden is a one man wrecking crew. for all those people sitting

here criticizing trump, he would send mean sweets but the country was running well. there is no way any person with any degree of common sense would look at where the country is now compared to where trump was an say biden is doing a modicum of a decent job. he is a one man wrecking crew. you have to say after 18 months, what are we in for with another two years of this guy? host: cory in illinois, the last caller. next, as the nation get set to salivate hundred anniversary of the lincoln memorial dedication -- to celebrate the hundredth anniversary of the lincoln mario dedication, we are taking time to focus on the creation and what it has come to represent. we will be joined by a rim lincoln scholar harold holzer

for that discussion. we will talk about how the mind mitts and particularly the lincoln memorial went back to the greek democracy. >> like the greeks, every time i come to washington, i feel as if i am coming home because everything i see around me, the ideas are carved into marble. everything is so familiar. walking into the lincoln memorial is like walking into the parthenon when it was still intact before the art collecting hobby defaced it. because it was based on the early monument, it diving by the supreme court and seeing the entrance, the motto, equal justice under law.

remember that this is a concept that the greek ancestors first conceived and articulated in a single word. of course, it was not only the washington buildings and culture that were immeasurably influenced by greece, but also the main business, democratic politics were founded in athens as well. in fact, to be brutally frank, we all owe our job to our ancestors. but i am coming not to seek appreciation from you or praise for that. i come before you to celebrate the miracle that all three peoples -- free peoples bind us

together, the miracle that would forever change the world is that society functions best if all are equal in have the right to share in running their state. in a word, democracy. [applause] host: may 30 marks the hundred year dedication of the lincoln mario we are joined by author and abraham harold holzer lincoln to -- joined by author and lincoln expert harold holzer to discuss.

what sets it apart? guest: one is just the beauty, the building and the magnificence of the marble statue, the largest marble monument portrait in the united states, then and now. what further has set it apart is the use of this space i am sitting on all the way to the steps as a platform for the discussion of grievances, for the aspirations for a more perfect union, for what reagan called unfinished -- what lincoln called unfinished work. it has evolved into the setting for demonstrations, gatherings, meetings, concerts that all point to completing that unfinished business of his.

host: describe where you are and for those who haven't been there, with the should know. guest: i am sitting about 50, 40 feet from the reflecting pool on the far end of the monument. and of course the memorial is behind me up 87 steps, i think i have that right. finished in 19 and they waited for it to settle on the soft ground before it settled -- for it to settle before they had the dedication. 100 years ago, the african-american community of washington came out to the spot

early to get good seats to see this tribute to a man they still regarded as the great emancipator. for the ceremony started, the park police rousted the african-americans out of their seats and moved them all back to right around where we are sitting, to the reflecting pool, a long way away from the mario in a roped off section and cheers without backs. what started as a tribute to the greek emancipator ended as a reflection of segregated washington and a separate but unequal society that still existed in washington and the united states. host: a history of the lincoln memorial and what it means today is what we are going to talk about in this hour. you can join the conversation peered the phone lines are split

in the eastern and central time zones (202) 748-8000, in the mountain or pacific (202) 748-8001, and a special line for those who visited the lincoln memorial. we want to know why you came in what you felt when you came, (202) 748-8002. you can go ahead and start calling. we are joined with harold holzer , live from the steps of the lincoln memorial. take us back before that date. how did this memorial come to be built? waere an pushback against building a memorial at the time to the great emancipator, abraham lincoln? guest: the project was first conceived in 1866, a year after lincoln was assassinated, or you would've thought there would have been a coalescence. as i wait for a plane to go

across, a unity. but i just didn't happen. 40 years went by before congress finally in 1905 appropriated the funds, $5 million, to build a memorial to abraham lincoln, and then the debate started on where to put it. this site in the swamps of west potomac park was not the first choice. people talked about union station, the base of the capital, the park near the maryland border, the soldier's home where lincoln spent his summer, and finally his former private secretary, later secretary of state, suggested this spot to be remote but not too remote. and the sculptor was the head of the mission in washington, put

the rubber stamp on this area. the speaker of the house, joe cannon, said famously, "i will never let a memorial to mike he wrote be -- i will never let a memorial be made here. french picked his collaborator, henry bacon, as the architect. there was no competition, but the design was so beautiful. bacon had so right to pick sculptor, so he picked the fellow who had picked him. at that time it was washington dealings and that is what it was. it worked out so magnificently. host: once you get inside lincoln memorial, for folks who

haven't been there, explain what you see when you get in and why it was designed that way. guest: it was principally designed as a kind of credo -- cradle for this at one point that was going to be a statute. french objected because he wanted people to see the face of lincoln from down here at the reflecting pool all the way up, constant confrontation of lincoln from different angles. what else is the inscribed words of the gettysburg address and the second inaugural address. also some ornaments by beatrice longman, a sculptor associated with daniel chester french. decorative murals by a painter named ernest garin that no one

sees because there wait about i level. and finally an epigraph, kind of a caption to the image, supplied by a new york art could tick who had always praised daniel chester french -- a new york art critic who had always praised daniel chester french he wrote in this temple as in the hearts of the people for whom he saved the union, the memory is enshrined forever. host: if your subscribers to the wall street journal, and today's review, a column by our guest, harold holzer, the headline, the changing meanings of an american shrine. what are the changing meanings? guest: on dedication day 100 years ago, not just because the

african-american visitors were herded off to a segregated area, but for other reasons, the speeches that were given by william howard taft, hurting, the president, made it -- harding, the president, made it clear that it was the reunion between north and south. 36 states named, 36 class columns circumventing the memorial structure to symbolize 36 states readmitted to the union after lincoln's presidency and the civil war. there was one african-american speaker, the principal of tuskegee. he had a fiery speech ready, talking about the fact that if equality wasn't the goal of the

country than this memorial was an hypocrisy. taft told him in no uncertain terms, we don't allow propaganda at this sacred event, either cut it or we will cut you. from there, you go to marian anderson's concert 17 years later singing my country tis of the, of the weise sing, a statement about integration. she had been barred from constitution hall you the white house and after that, in august 1963, martin luther king says i am standing inside the shadow where a hundred years the negro league still not free. -- the need grow is still not free -- the negro is still

not free. cartoons of the lincoln memorial weeping. it goes on and on. and as the viewers know, the ground for the night before the inaugural celebration where president elects come for the last night for they come president for your gigantic rallies and as for the case for president bidenvery quiet tribute to the dead from covid.

he came in front of the reflecting pool for those who died from covid. host: we see behind you the various people come to the memorial, not just visitors but graduates in downs and adjusted to hear from our callers about what the lincoln memorial means to you and your visits there could we have a special line. ryan is calling from -- bob and texas is on that line. go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call. one of the very early images i can remember growing up is watching mr. smith goes to washington where he would look at it and he knew nothing about the taylor machine and bad things going on.

it was just the ideal. when my son got old enough, i wanted to take him and show him this to me represents, if you look at it you can make your own waves. but we have to acknowledge all of the things that have not been right for all sections of our population. we can speak out about that and try to promote things that are good for all areas. david small wrote a book called so you want to be president and he was a longtime cartoonist for the new yorker and i can remember an image of bill clinton walking up the steps after he had been impeached with

his head down and they put that in the book. i thought, it is like lincoln comes the ideal that people work off of. i have just one question. my question is, when i walked in and saw the word under god on the left side, are there other places in the memorial that show a spiritual emphasis as far as how our country began? host: thanks for the call. guest: you packed so much in that statement so thank you. the same year marian anderson saying on the steps, mr. smith goes to washington opened around the united states. to prepare for tomorrow's rededication, fruman listening in the region, there will be a ceremony on the steps at 10:00

a.m. re-creating the ceremony, to some degree, and i am going to be speaking if that is an attraction, don't let it keep you away. mr. smith opens the same season as marian anderson. and the scene you talk about, he is a child reading the gettysburg address out loud from the wall. then the film cuts to a black man with tears falling down his cheeks as he hears the words of the promise of equality under god. god is mentioned in lincoln's other speech and is on the gettysburg address portion. lincoln added those, they were not in the original text. when he rewrote it, he inserted the words he spoke at

gettysburg. the other mention of god is harsher. in the second inaugural address where that is written into panels on the wall, there is a fiery paragraph saying that after all these centuries of oppression, slavery, every drop of blood drawn with a lash has to be repaid by those drawn with the sword, that as we said 3000 years ago, so must it be said today, the judgments of the lord are true and righteous altogether. so it was evoking god for quality and also for retribution of the sin of slavery. host: you have written 50 books about lincoln and the civil war,

do you think lincoln would have been happy the two documents picked to be on the wall, his gettysburg address and the second inaugural address? guest: daniel chester french wanted to add lincoln's farewell address to springfield, illinois from 1851 and also his condolence letter to the widow, lydia bixby, from 1864, neither of which made the final cut. i think, and i say this in the wall street journal, that lincoln might have been equally interested in seeing the words of the emancipation inscribed on these walls, not because he wrote them as a rhetorical masterpiece, in fact the document was written in legalese , the words were meant to be binding legally and not necessarily for rhetoric. lincoln regarded the

emancipation as the essential act of my administration could when he signed his name, he said if my name ever lives it will be because of this act. i-19 20 with jim crow -- by 1920 with jim crow still in effect and still with segregation and african american speakers censored, the emancipation proclamation was not the thing to celebrate. the white leaders who created the lincoln memorial emphasized the reunion of northern and southern states and that did not really take proper account of black lives. host: from the steps of the lincoln memorial out to california, good morning, you are on with harold holzer. caller: thank you for taking my call. host: go ahead with your comment or question. caller: i have been to the

lincoln memorial several times. i live in california, and it is always been a special occasion getting to know the history. i have been there more than once and have actually just seen -- host: gary in reno, nevada is next. caller: thank you for taking my call. i am curious with so many things being wrong, and it seems like nothing is being fixed, has anyone in washington heard of invoking the 25th amendment? host: we are talking about the lincoln memorial and the 100th memorial, do have a comment about that? caller: i like the structure. i hope people don't demonize it. host: harold holzer, on that

point, hoping it doesn't get demonized, we are in an era in which there has been a rethinking of history, has there ever been a rethinking of the lincoln memorial? host: not yet, happily. during some of the protests over the summer of 2020, proactive fencing was erected along this plaza. protests were staged here as they have for decades without incident, but there was a photoshop image of a vandalized graffiti lincoln memorial statute that made it onto the web and scared people for a few hours before it was discovered it was not genuine. a few miles from where we are down past the capitol lincoln, i

think the official title is the emancipation group, lincoln with his arm outstretched in a kneeling or rising for the beneficiary of the great liberating moment of the proclamation. that said you had come under protest. people tried unsuccessfully to bring it down during some of the protests of the summer. it is worth talking about all of the statues, in washington, the south, the west. i personally don't believe lincoln should be subjected to that kind of revisionism. i will always quote the c-span historians pull conducted every time a new president takes office and that pull has once again marked abraham lincoln as our greatest presidents in i think he deserves it. president come here at the

moment when they are reflecting the most, whether bill clinton at the moment of impeachment or ronald reagan when he is coming to the presidency or frank on eleanor roosevelt when he got to washington, he can't walk up the steps, he never did, but every separate 12 his car came and he managed to stand leaning on his son on one side and his military aid on the other and take his hat off in the presence of the lincoln memorial. so it appeals to leaders and that is the healthy thing. we can all find something in the lincoln memorial to inspire us and make us really feel hopeful about the country. host: that historian at survey, and thank you for bringing it up, putting linking -- lincoln as the top president, every time the survey has been done, 2017, 2009, 2000, abraham lincoln

always comes in first in that survey ahead of george washington, franklin roosevelt, theodore roosevelt, dwight eisenhower, the top five in the latest survey paired why do you think lincoln is always number one? guest: because he not only saved the union at its most precarious moment, he also articulated the vision of the american dream in his writing, and aside from that, represented the american dream in his own rise from impoverished remote circumstances all the way to the white house. he lived there team -- the dream, articulated it for everyone else. if it had been a vulcanized, we might have been five countries.

how would we have fared against the nazis if we were not a united and strong country, the one lincoln left to us? host: grand rapids, michigan, this is brian, good morning. caller: a lot, i am from minnesota but that is ok. -- thanks a lot, i am from minnesota but that is ok. stir holzer, -- mr. holzer, thank you for doing the show paired i did not know this was built so late, 1920. mr. smith goes to washington is one of my favorite movies. i was there meant by brother invited me and my folks there, and i hate to be so flippant, but 27 years ago they had a problem with pigeons getting in there and doing their business.

you still have a problem with pigeons in there? guest: it is not flippant, they do damage to statues. i must say i haven't seen any birds in there, so they must have figured out. i think it was doing things with shortwave vibrations that inhibit birds. whatever they are doing, it is working in flee. the statue was even washed down with hot water the other day. the picture was in the washington post to get ready for the rededication on sunday. the park service takes magnificent care of the structure. i think you are overdue for another visit. you have to come back. host: in talking about the changes of the lincoln memorial, you talked about a key moment being the march on washington in

august 1963. i want to show a clip from a u.s. agency about the march on washington that gives a sense of the scene there at the lincoln memorial. this is about a minute and a half long. [video clip] [applause] >> 150 members of the congress of the united states arrived at the rally to add their support, and the support of the people of the states they represent to the spirit of the march in washington. [applause] >> i want some of you to help me win a bet. i want everybody out here in the open to keep quiet, and i want to hear a yell and thunder from all those people who are out

there under the trees. let's hear you. [cheers and applause] there is one of them in the trees. [laughter] [applause] [chanting] host: some of the images there, mr. holzer, of the 200,000, maybe 300,000 there for march on washington. what that moment meant for the civil rights movement and why the lincoln memorial was for that event. go through that's a little bit. guest: there was a little bit of a distraction. host: can you talk about the importance of that moment, the

march on washington? guest: with apologies for that. it was transformative. not an automatic give me. i think president kennedy, who did not attend the rally, was ordered that this public space be made available to the public that wanted to use it on that day. we were talking hundreds of thousands of people stretched back on as the speaker said, into the trees. once dr. king invoked the unfinished promise of the emancipation, i think frankly it was a watershed meant, principally for the civil rights movement but also for the lincoln memorial. it now became the symbol of what lincoln himself called, in the words of the gettysburg address, the unfinished work of equality in america. host: back to the phone lines.

we had the special phone lines for those who visited the lincoln memorial on the west end of the national mall. ted on the line from ocean, hawaii. caller: thank you for taking my call. i was just joining the merchant and washington and i remember it was close to midnight going to the memorial and just being in awe, just stood there and looked at all of the things he accomplished and what a great president he was and he absolutely deserves to be number one. i was lucky to be there. that is what i wanted to say. guest: that's a beautiful sentiment. the reason point worth sharing. though he did not know it when he installed the statue here in

1919, three years before the dedication, the statue is open, the memorial is open day and nights. it is beautifully lit with the highest grade electric lighting which french thought of. when he came to the dedication, he noticed the skyline had been lacquered over and front doors would be open all the time so he quickly did remedial work to make sure it showed to wonderful advantage at night. it -- for those who have only come during the day, i would urge them to try visiting at night. it is a totally different almost mystical experience to see lincoln in the light, the shrouded light against the white background. in the darkness of washington. quite beautiful. host: if daniel chester french is somebody you're intrigued by, monument man, the author of the book is carol

holzer. up next, good morning. caller: good morning. two points, my wife who died a while ago, used to work for the department of interior and i know they use to -- i don't know if they still do -- give tours into the monument underground, to other recesses but typically would not be apparent and the other point just last week i was listening to testimony by deb haaland about the atrocities that have happened to the indigenous people here and it should be duly noted and recognized that it was under lincoln that i think the largest mass execution of people were done, so we just have to be able to tell all of the history. guest: i agree. i would love to talk about both of those things. first, i think the caller is

referring to what people call the under croft of the lincoln memorial. the memorial itself is 99 feet high. the undergirding, the basement, call it the under croft, is 67 feet deep i believe. the reason it is so deep is because this use building, i don't know the weight of it, but i know the weight of the statue, 200 40 tons, that is pretty heavy, and a very deep basement was dug, all sorts of artwork, brilliantly engineered, and it still rests on this musty clay surface, like an unfinished basement. there is graffiti on the walls from the workers who labored there in the 19 teens and the great news is private funding has been allocated to open it because tors are not given any more but it will be reopened in a few years as a visitor center.

with a bookstore in a place to see the graffiti workers left. so it should be a tourist attraction in itself. the best news of all about it, aside from the engineering miracle it represents, is it is always about 70 degrees in there. it is like a cave in missouri. it is 70 degrees in the winter and 70 degrees in the summer. i can tell you from this plaza it is not 70 degrees in washington today. it is somewhat warmer. [laughter] but a word about the dakota. in 1862, there was an uprising in minnesota, the usual land squabbles, native people said they moved off of their land, they came back allegedly violating a treaty and there were huge battles and ultimately almost 300 native people were

arrested and condemned to death. the governor of minnesota told president lincoln it was necessary because of the approaching off year election that the execution go forward. lincoln said i am not going to hang people for voting. i went to see every case, i want to review every single case. yes, ultimately -- and this is a tribe -- a tragic half glass half-full or half-empty story, 38 men were condemned and executed. according to the trial record they had committed murder or rape or infanticide or other atrocities but lincoln pardoned more than 250 condemned people. so whether you can sit in -- consider him a great partner or mass execution or is open to discussion and i agree that

every part of that store needs to be told. host: you focused a bit on the lincoln memorial as a focal point of the civil rights movement. what about it being a focal point of protests against the vietnam war? guest: i think one of the reasons the vietnam memorial was cited near here is that indeed it was a focal point for the antiwar movement as well. and the gay-rights movement and women's right movement. again, movements for chains have coalesced around this and i think the lincoln reputation as a change agent, a frame he would not have recognized, as an advocate for making a more perfect union, is what serves as a magnet for groups who feel they are underrepresented, under served or undertreated. probably the most notable time of the antiwar protests came one night in i believe 1969 when richard nixon paid an unannounced visit to the lincoln

memorial at night to meet with -- or at least dialogue with -- some of the protesters who were camping out inside of the atrium at the top of the steps. it was not televised, it was unannounced, but we do have some wonderful archival photographs of nixon looking very uncomfortable and the protesters looking very before old to see the president -- very before old -- befuddled to see the president. in front of a statue of a man certainly buffeted by criticism in his day. host: montana, this is dan, good morning. caller: good morning. i always said the march on washington, i think i was eight years old and parents took me and my little sister and i just

remembered it as a peaceful and adventurous summer day and lots of different people of all different kinds, and i remember peter paul and mary and of course martin luther king's speech and just that everybody got along real well and i remember we were kind of camped out underneath the closest tree to the steps may be and i was only eight and parents let me, ok, it was hot and i wanted to go dip my feet into the reflecting pool. ok, we will be here, just come back when you are done. i went swimming for an hour and got cool and came back and it was a wonderful time. we had a great time and very glad i went to it. and just kind of a funny thing,

my little sister was chattering a little bit when martin luther king was speaking in i remember them saying you might want to watch this because someday it will be in your history books. anyway. guest: wonderful memory. wonderful memory. host: thanks for those memories. mr. holzer? guest: it was an extraordinary day. i remember watching on television and not quite the same but you knew when dr. king started to speak that history was being made, not only american history but rhetorical history. an aside was it was the first national speech by a very young man who had helped organize the day and if you go back and watch the entire event on youtube, you will see young, handsome john lewis introducing the proceedings in that unmistakable

georgia patois he had and it is just fabulous, the same voice, same rich baritone voice he had. host: to tim out of minnesota, good morning, you are next. caller: hi, john. thinking about all of this, it reminds me of two books i read, black like me, uncle tom's cabin , and all god's children. that was by fox butterfield. you have had him on the floor -- on before. if you want to read something [indiscernible] i think these are the greatest books i've ever read. black, white, and me was a true story about a guy in the 50's

who alters himself to look african-american, got away with it, and wrote down the differences. i think about it because people say, you know, slavery was here and gone, blah blah blah, and i do not believe the lasting effects of oppression disappear that easily, especially when there is just so much on acknowledgment of what happened to the black man. host: mr. holzer, take us back to 1922 and a some of those issues and how the nation was dealing with it at the dedication of the monument behind you. guest: well i would say principally the nation was not dealing with it.

the wilson administration, which had proceeded warren harding's administration had very openly and unapologetically re-segregated the federal bureaucracy. any advances made in opening of federal jobs and agencies to employment and the right to rise in those jobs by african-americans was just thwarted and reversed by woodrow wilson. something some people do not often remember about his administration. warren harding was better on civil rights but if you do not allow your only black orator of the day to say what is in his heart and on his mind about lincoln's unfinished work, about the need to live up to his aspirations for equal justice, then you are still operating in an area of hypocrisy as mouton knew in his gut. so the nation was not yet ready

to make strides, the jim crow era was upon us, confederate monuments were still rising in the former confederacy, and i think, looking back, and in my own work on this memorial, i focused on the arts, i focused on daniel because i wrote a biography of french and i think memorial itself focused on an incomplete american story. yes, sectional reunion was crucial to making america strong in the post-world war i era, leading up to the world war ii era. but making it strong for whom? that was a serious question that would remain unanswered until dr. king raised it forcefully again, standing under that statue saying the need go is still not free. 100 years after the promises were made and it was 100 years after the emancipation so it is

a mixed emotion for me to think about 1922. they missed -- they disbelieved as we say in the journalism business but they did create a work of art and a building we can be grateful. host: one more historical note on may the 30th, 19 22, abraham lincoln's son attended the dedication ceremony. guest: he did. he was one of those bearded old white men on the top of the steps, edward markham the poet, robert lincoln, uncle joe cannon, the former speaker of the house who did not want the building built here, they were all up there. we all regret, lincolns students regret that robert had nothing to say the day. he was 79 years old, was not well, and had his personal physician with him, so i think he was worried about the effect

of the day on his health. but he was there and that meant a lot i think in terms of the continuity of the lincoln family such it was that it would not last very long. host: gina is next calling in from montana as well, cascade, montana. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i was fortunate enough to visit the lincoln probably about 10 years ago and the only other place in washington that affected me as deeply as the lincoln memorial did was arlington cemetery. for me, very reverent, i was just moved so deeply by the lincoln memorial. part of the reason is i grew up in montana, went to a country

school, i think there were eight students, and i remember clearly on the wall in our school was a picture of president washington and a picture of president lincoln. we studied both of those presidents deeply in country school, and i do not want to take anything away from the emancipation proclamation and the whole slavery issue. that was a pivotal point in american history, but one thing that affected my family deeply was the homestead act, which was also lincoln's stroke of a pen. because of that, my family now lives instead of ohio and missouri, we live in montana. for me it was very personal. i was just enthralled with the statue, huge he is, he is very real, and i've never felt so

enthralled with a president in my life. i just wanted to say that. host: thanks for the call. mr. holzer. guest: that was very moving and very on point. we all want presidents to be able to focus on all areas of policy at once. while abraham lincoln was consumed with the civil war for every single day of his presidency after april 1861, it is true he had a domestic agenda other than military. he signed the homestead act which as you mentioned gave land to people willing to brave uncharted territory as his own parents had by moving westward to kentucky and indiana and then eastern illinois. he signed the transcontinental railroad act and advocated for linking both continents. he signed the land-grant grant college act which created so

many higher learning opportunities for black and white americans, so it is not talked about often, but i'm glad you raised the homestead act and the other legislative innovations i mentioned were crucial to having a better country and return to one -- once peace had been restored. host: we talk about the lincoln memorial being a focal point for change movement and another moment in time, this is august 2010, it was radio tv personality glenn back's restoring honor rally at the lincoln memorial. here is about 40 seconds to show you the scene from that day. >> it brings you the truth every day -- he brings you the truth every day, now he brings you an effort to restore honor in america. ladies and gentlemen, glenn beck. [cheers and applause]

>> hello, america. i have just gotten word from the media that there is over 1000 people here today. [cheering] host: and glenn back there poking fun at the media little bit. official estimates from the day around 100,000 or more people showed up at the lincoln memorial. harold hose or -- holzer on that event and more recent events at the lincoln memorial. guest: i guess part of me is still happy with the idea people find their inner lincoln and that they can rally around

whatever part of lincoln inspired and appealed to them. glenn beck i know was a lincoln admirer. he borrowed the gettysburg address a few years ago for a pop-up museum and kind of got the museum into a heap of trouble. i guess behind that is an earnestness and a respect for lincoln, not my particular cup of tea but i would not to deny anyone the opportunity to rally here and find in this statue and building what makes america seem unique and appealing and irreplaceable to them. host: just about 10 minutes left with harold holzer, the lincoln form chair joining us on a warm morning from the west end of the national mall at the steps of the lincoln memorial. for folks who don't know, what

is the lincoln form? guest: i'm glad you asked. it's a national organization that meets every november 16 through 18th in gettysburg, pennsylvania. you can find information about next november's forum on thelincolnforum.org, or getting in touch with me on my website, harold holzer --haroldholzer@ haroldholzer.com. we have dinners, lunches, breakfasts, great hotel we all meet at and the obvious of gettysburg to celebrate and soak in. we have been doing it for 27 consecutive years, one year on zoom only during the lockdown, and often recorded and broadcast by c-span, we are proud to say, but we would love people who are listening to get in touch with us and think about looking at

our roster of speakers and heading to gettysburg in november. host: i don't know if you had a chance before you showed up for this interview to go up to the morrill itself, but the park service putting out a tweet this morning about having to close the memorial this morning or at least the inside of the memorial due to a graduation celebration at left broken bottles and champagne covering the steps, saying they are trying to clean up and reopen as soon as possible. did you happen to see any of that this morning? guest: we are fed up in the midst of broken whiskey bottles that have miraculously and quietly been cleaned up while we are broadcasting from here, but when we got here, the crew and producer and i looked around and said how did this happen? not because it was in our way, these guys can set up anywhere

but it was sort of embarrassing that it was left this way, but they have done a good job. i have to say i did get the memorial yesterday for the first time in three years. i have not been to d.c. since covid began but i met yesterday with students from purdue university who are affiliated with the c-span center for communications at purdue in a tour led by none other than brian lamb who would be angry at me for mentioning his name. host: probably. guest: we had a wonderful student tour, probably but what the heck. we had a wonderful tour he let me lead with his terrific students. hope some of them are watching. i learned a lot from them, hearing their impression. we had a good look around, three quarters of the building -- look around three quarters of the building. then brian said come over here, that is the vice president's motorcade crossing the memorial

bridge. we had a pretty exciting site on the memorial. i had a great visit and i will go up again today and tomorrow. i will be back at 10:00 a.m. for the rededication ceremony. people may wonder why we are not doing it on memorial day. the park service does not allow public events on memorial day. for fear it is disrespectful to veterans. it is peculiar because the lincoln memorial's dedicated on memorial day but so be it, we are happy to be here on may 22 and we will be here tomorrow morning. host: hopefully it will be cooler tomorrow morning as well. i'm for a couple more phone calls for you. this is steve in blacksburg, virginia on the line for those who have visited the memorial. caller: i had the privilege of visiting the memorial when i was about five years old and i'm 63 now. my father took our family down

and we basically went all around the mall but i did see the lincoln memorial. it is pretty impressive. host: what impressed you the most as a five-year-old, stephen? caller: well, the statue of lincoln himself. host: and harold holzer, on that statue itself, you talk about how that statue and renderings of that statue have sort of taken the place of uncle sam in some ways in this country. going to show viewers one of those cartoons, the abraham lincoln with his hands covering his face, but ask plane that's a little bit. guest: that is bill malden's cartoon of the lincoln memorial weeping at the news of president kennedy's death and that really started the idea of using a malleable version of the memorial to express the national

mood. or to influence the national mood. wink and had been portrayed on the small and cartoon as safe during the civil war so here he is returning as a national symbol, fist pumping barack obama, taking iphone pictures of joe biden, that kind of thing. i worry that i have not said enough about channel -- daniel chester french. he started this statue process with a 12 inch i model in clay, just out of the depths of his imagination, to create -- and he made very few changes as it expanded from a one foot model to a three foot model to a seven foot enlargement and i am ultimately carved by italian immigrants in the bronx named the peter really brothers. this was created in chester wood, his beautiful studio in the berkshires open to the

public, open early this year because of this centennial, a wonderful place to visit. you can see his tools, models, the norman rockwell museum nearby has a special exhibit on the lincoln memorial. it came out of one artists inspirational hands. a combination of french's hands and lincoln's hands are the hands we see gripping the chair of state at the top there and it is just a remarkable work of art , still the grandest marble statue in the united states. and worth visiting for those who love american art and those who love american history. host: try to get one or two more phone calls. michael out of las vegas, good morning. caller: good morning, gentlemen. mr. holds her, i have been enjoying everything -- holzer, i have been enjoying everything

you have been saying. i was a military brat and also visited the memorial when i was nine years old. there is an overall idea whether it is for young people or for older people, there is something about visiting the memorial in the nighttime in the hubbub of the day and traffic, ok, and you have more light and it is nice to come and see, but when the commotion of the city quiets down and now things are peaceful, there is the circle drive around the memorial, the planners and designers really just created something transcendent. you find the place to park and you take the steps in your group grows more and more quiet as he reached the top step and there is the city, dark with the highlights of the national mall,

and you turn and go in, my goodness. it really somehow someway by accident or design it all came together for that structure and i do not care what your color, persuasion, creed, all that good stuff, there is a reference there, and it truly is a temple. the trash listening as i heard about the trash, it transcends that even, in my view. you are always going to have pigs, but doesn't that say something also, in a way, i don't know if i'm making a clear, but while you talk about a place that is for all people, i'm so happy to see this centennial celebration. i cannot believe 1922 it is already 100 years. host: thanks for that call. i will give you the final minute here. guest: stay tuned if you cannot

get here for the actual event, c-span will be recording it here it i'm sure it will be on american history tv at some point. i tend to agree about the celebrants, it is a lot choir at -- quieter and cleaner so i can be less aggrieved about the bottles and glass but it is for everybody. if people are celebrating their liberation from lockdown by having an outdoor graduation ceremony and having fun, maybe some of them misbehave, not everybody or it would have been worse, and they are doing so in the shadow, in the majestic shadow of this statue that martin luther king jr. describes so beautifully, i think it is wonderful. i hope they got a chance to read the words because we can celebrate everything great about america, which we do, but there is still -- there are still those two words inscribed in the gettysburg address next to the statue. "unfinished work." i made it down like -- i made it

sound like three works but it is two. we have miles to go and doing it in the glow of the statue is perhaps the best way and most inspiring way to proceed. host: harold holzer, lincoln formed chair, author of the book and many books but in particular "monument man, the life and art of daniel chester french." thank you for joining us on such a warm morning this morning from there at the lincoln memorial. guest: thank you, john. if you missed any of the conversation about the centennial of the lincoln memorial, it will re-tonight on c-span2 at 9:00 p.m. eastern. and you can check out all of our history tv programming on our website at c-span.org. that will do it for this morning's "washington journal," but we will be back here tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m.

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