stephen moore shares his thoughts on the biden administration's economic policies. later, we discuss the drought and water shortage in the u.s. with e&e news staff writer jennifer yachnin. ♪ host: whatever action the federal reserve takes today on interest rates, inflation, the cost of gas, cost -- food, and more are expected to remain at record highs for some time. with another set of midterm primaries yesterday and the november elections looming, president biden has stepped up the ministration action and messaging on the economy. republicans in congress have kept up their critique and stepped up with an inflation plan of their own. it is wednesday, june 15, 2022.

we will spend this first hour asking you about the economy. if you are an optimist, the line to call is (202) 748-8000. if you are pessimistic about the u.s. economy, (202) 748-8001. you can also send us a text. that line is (202) 748-8003. we ask you to leave your name, where you are texting from. we are on facebook, twitter, instagram, and that is @cspanwj. it is not an answer on optimistic or pessimistic. it is why you feel that way and what about the economy makes you feel either optimistic or pessimistic. the lines were economic optimists, (202) 748-8000. the pessimistic line, (202) 748-8001. we will also preview some of the federal reserve board of governors meeting happening today. later in the network, we will show you the news conference from fed chair jay powell.

we will hear from the president yesterday in philadelphia speaking about the economy and from congressional republicans. we will show you results yesterday in primary races in nevada and south carolina. first to the president's trip to philadelphia. the headline, joe biden talks inflation at union convention in philadelphia. president joe biden visited philadelphia yesterday to address members of the largest federation of unions in the country about how his administration is trying to tackle rising inflation. the state of the economy is becoming biden's biggest problem, which can have effects on his party's electoral success in the fall. axios says the president addressed inflation as his top domestic priority and has laid blame on russian president vladimir putin's invasion of ukraine, the pandemic, and congressional republicans.

a similar sentiment expressed in a headline from bloomberg this morning. biden's never been more optimistic is there headline, despite troubled u.s. economy. the president speaks to union members as the fed mulls an interest height break. here is the president displaying some of that optimism in philadelphia. [video clip] >> we brought down covid deaths by 90%. the open to schools and businesses that were shuttered. it all creates the greatest drop recovery in american history. people do not want to talk about it these days, but it is true. since i have become president, we have created 8.7 million new jobs in 16 months, an all-time record. even last month, 390,000 jobs and 600,000 new manufacturing jobs.

they said manufacturing was dead in america. our unemployment rate is near historic lows and millions of americans -- i love these guys talking about i left my employment and i went to another job because you get paid more. is into that awful? is into that a shame, that they have to compete for labor? better paying jobs. better jobs for them and their families. it has been a long time since that has happened in this country, but it is happening now and it is working. host: and some of the republican response on capitol hill is coming, the wall street journal reporting the men gop offers plans to fight inflation. congressional republicans are begin to detail their plans to combat inflation and soft and the impact on household,

indicating some regulatory policies they might pursue if they take control of the house and senate in the fall midterm elections. senator chuck grassley proposed to adjust the tax code provision for inflation and reduce taxes on investments. republicans on the house ways and means committee outlined their anti-inflation agenda, calling for resending -- resci nding unused federal spending. the policies offer a preview of the midterm election campaign, where inflation is likely to be one of the core issues as republicans try to regain control of the house and senate. in a closely divided congress, it is difficult to design politically viable legislative proposals that remove money from the economy or reduce costs for businesses and households. that is at the wall street journal. our opening question this morning, are you optimistic or pessimistic about the u.s. economy? (202) 748-8000 if you are an

optimist. on the economy, anyway. (202) 748-8001 for those of you pessimistic on the u.s. economy. some thoughts on twitter, this one saying, did i just hear republicans have a plan to do something other than overthrow the government? this one says the people democrats blame supply-side, high prices, etc. on everything but the real reason, their impossible green regulations that are choking the life out of our domestic industry and driving manufacturing overseas. and i have feelings for the 65% of americans tapping savings to make ends meet. i would hate to have to sell shares in this market. let's go to john in brooklyn, who is on the optimistic line. go ahead. caller: thank the lord for c-span. i am calling from brooklyn, new

york, and i feel good about the economy. biden is going to bring it out. he did it before. that is what the democrats do. when bush left the white house, president biden and obama, you remember the condition the nation was in, they brought it back. biden is the most experienced president that i have seen so far. he has a lot of experience, him and obama solved the recession before. he has experience and he is going to do it. if the republicans would help him -- but their job is to defeat him and make sure he is not successful. these gas prices -- we have 9000 drilling permits and will not use them. $9 billion since this recession

the oil companies have made. one made $6 billion. he should call them to the white house and start drilling with those permits they got, 9000, he should suspend them. you should give them to somebody that will start drilling. now he is going to. the first day -- he went straight to saudi arabia. biden has the right idea. he is on the move now. he wrote a letter to all these oil companies, shell, exxon. he is calling their hand. this recession is made by the republicans. thank you very much and thank you for c-span. host: there is additional reporting from the associated press that we will tell you about any minute. let's go to our pessimistic line. this is paul, pessimistic on the

economy. welcome. make sure you mute your volume they're on your television and go ahead with your comment. good morning. caller: i do not have it on. i was going to say i am pessimistic because oil companies have no real motivation to produce because they are making so much money currently and that is just supply and demand. without the fuel, we cannot produce -- our agribusiness cannot produce. that is going to maintain high prices in the grocery store. back to oil, the studies, they are not motivated to give us a good deal or make up the supply and oil that we need or europe

needs, so we are just fighting an uphill battle, and congress is just -- they are talking about things that matter, but we have bigger issues, and -- that fighting on gun legislation. i am all for it, it can be done a lot easier than what we are going to plan on spending money for. so i do not know how we are going to get it turned around until congressman's to talk about something substantial toward our nation's economy. -- congress wants to talk less of the substantial -- talk about something substantial toward our nation's economy.

host: president biden on wednesday called on u.s. oil makers to produce more gasoline and diesel, saying their profits have tripled during a time of war between russia and ukraine as americans struggle with record high prices at the pump. the crunch the families are facing deserves immediate action , biden wrote in the draft of a letter to world refiners obtained by the associated press. your company's thing -- companies need to work with my administration to bring solutions to address the crisis. gas prices nationwide are averaging roughly five dollars a gallon, and economic burden for many americans and a political threat for the president's fellow democrats into the midterm elections. inflation began to rise last year as the u.s. economy recovered from the coronavirus pandemic, but it accelerated in recent months as energy and food prices climbed after russia invaded ukraine in february and disrupted global commodity markets. on the optimistic line, anna in

connecticut, go ahead. caller: i am optimistic because i believe in president bush -- i mean president biden. i support him and his policies. i also believe the republicans, liz cheney and adam kissinger, are helping through this trial to put up a case of defense for president trump. this is a defense for him. all of the prosecutors come everybody who has testified, those are true things. those are true things, but president trump is ill. he is sick with mental health. how can you try somebody with criminal referrals who is mentally sick? through mental health, he will get off on everything, and i believe that he is really sick

and we should pray for him. i think having a close friend who gave you advice in that call , that can get the some but the of everybody and all of his friends -- i think the republicans did not vote against him during the impeachment because they have strength and compassion not to go against him with his illness. they know that he is sick. host: our focus here is on the economy. we will go to bill in new york city, who is pessimistic. good morning, bill. caller: good morning. you are one of my favorite commentators or moderators, whatever you want to call yourself. thank you for taking my call. i am pessimistic. the reason why is because we have a bunch of people who have a bunch of money and a lot of

people, a majority of us can have no money, and we live in a system that is not really for anyone except those who want to take advantage of other people. i want to say we are in this system that people are taking advantage of everyone else and we are all behind it, saluting people taking a vantage of us, so have a good day and thank you. host: here is the new york times this morning. tariff roles -- rollbacks ease inflation even a little bit cannot writing president biden is weighing whether to roll back some of the tariffs that former president donald trump imposed on chinese goods in the hopes of mitigating the most rapid price gains in 40 years. some outside economists have been pressuring the administration to relax a portion of the taxes on imports, saying it would be a step the

president could take to cut costs for consumers. any action by the administration to lift the tariffs is unlikely to put a large dent in an inflation rate that hit 8.6% in may while political ramifications could be severe. a study this year predicted a move to lift tariffs could save household $797 billion a year but administration officials say the actual effect would likely be smaller, in part because there is no chance mr. biden will rollback all the federal government tariffs and other protectionist trade measures. on the issue energy prices, it is part of the criticism of house republicans in their efforts to overtake the house in the fall midterm elections. they spoke about their critiques of the president yesterday. [video clip] >> president biden's inflation increasing agenda is crushing the american dream for millions of families across the country.

we have heard some of the stories. families are talking about canceling their summer vacation, not just because of the inflation but because they cannot even afford to fill their gas tank because gas prices are so high got more than double where they were when joe biden took the oath of office. if you look at the different crises we have been talking about for the last year and a half that have been added onto and created by this president from inflation cut too high gas prices, to crime that is running rampant through our country, let alone the foreign policy debacles we have seen over and over again, it is costing families thousands of dollars more. think about this. last week, the house natural resources committee, the committee that has jurisdiction over energy policy along with the house energy and commerce committee, held a hearing. you would think with skyrocketing gas prices the natural resources committee will hold a hearing about how to lower gas prices.

they could move legislation that we have urged them to take up to lower gas prices at the pump today, but that is not what they had the hearing on. the natural resources committee had a hearing on big cats. amid the gas crisis, that is crushing american families, taking money out of their pockets every week when they fill up their vehicle, instead of having a hearing on how to lower gas prices they had a hearing on big cats. that is how out of touch speaker pelosi and the democrats in washington are with the american people. host: there were primary elections in a couple states yesterday, including south carolina. this is from a newspaper in south carolina. this is from their front page this morning. here are the headlines. on the two congressional races, people keeping an eye on tom

rice's defeat or. as the trump impeachment vote loomed large. asking you this morning about your thoughts on the economy. are you optimistic or pessimistic? greg is on the optimistic line in mechanicsburg, pennsylvania. caller: you are not one of my favorite moderators. most of you have become woke, unfortunately. i'm optimistic, but for a different reason than the other people calling in on the optimistic line. i am optimistic because november is going to be huge correction. the only thing joe biden -- first, joe biden makes very few decisions except when he gets up and goes to bed. the obama administration acolytes are telling him what to say.

they control the teleprompter. look at the policy on tariffs. ok. why would they consider doing something on tariffs when they will not allow the asset in the ground to the united states to be used, meaning gas? because trump imposed the tariffs, so we do everything opposite of what trump did. that is their only logic. as to gas, if he were to decide, this asset that is in the ground that will be worthless in 10 years if this crap continues, that asset is not being used, if he said today we are going to make it easier to pump for five years, the price of gas would go down immediately because it is a futures market. if you're in one of those companies that own all that

property, that asset is going to be zero soon come up so what do you do for your shareholders and company before it goes to zero? do you sit there and say, i am woke, i am not quite to do anything because i'm all about greta thornburg, whatever her name is in europe? come on. it is all about what will donald trump do and then we will do the opposite. that is why i am optimistic, because people see through that. host: jerry is on the optimistic line as well. caller: good morning. jerry, is that right? host: yes, go ahead. caller: i am optimistic. when joe biden took office, they have people back to work since he took office. inflation ain't bad if you did not have a job to start with. here, you cannot hire people to work.

look at all that stuff. and the gas prices. if congress would do away with the federal task -- tax on gasoline, it don't have to be permanent. however long it takes, that would be a relief. the economy is not bad here in tennessee. you keep the house up for sale, it sold. there are all kinds of markets and gas prices are not going to come back down until they do something to lower the taxes for the housing market slows down because everything that it takes to build houses has to be dropped in. i think we are on the right track. this inflation will not last forever, but these wages that went up will last forever. in memphis, we are out about

3000 jobs just building car batteries. here in livingston, they say gas prices is too high, but they have jobs. we were having food lines backed up over here and people are in better shape than they think they are. we are a lot better off. host: so arlene on the pessimistic line in florida. caller: good morning. i am pessimistic temporarily because it will be optimistic in november or whatever but i want to ask any folks there listening , are you better off today than you were four years ago? we have problems and it started with joe biden and all those cancellations on everything trump put in order and our white

people, which get along fine with black people, five years ago we had no relation problems in our races until he started criminalizing the white folks and also i think it would help us optimistically to have a more positive attitude that this is only temporary. host: next up is vicky in orlando, florida. go ahead. caller: yes, i agree with the lady that just spoke and the gentleman before. we are going to be ok. come november, we will not even have to think about joe biden or none of them fools that has been in office for the last few years trying to tear our country down.

we are going to take our country back and put it back on the right road and it is going to be in our rearview mirror. this was just a little pothole. host: this is one of the opinions from the new york post this week. your 401(k) is in the fed's hands this week. the federal reserve will have to choose his position. if it fails to accelerate the pace of interest rate hikes, it risks -- i apologize about that. we lost that one. here we go, back on the screen again. it risks losing control over runaway inflation. if it surprises us with a faster pace of interest rate increases come a it risks further tanking the stock market, creating the conditions for an early hard economic landing. last year when the country's largest peacetime budget on --

stimulus on record risked overheating the economy, the fed kept interest rates at their lower bound and allowed the money supply to balloon. it did so in the belief that the pickup on inflation was a transitory phenomenon caused by covid induced supply chain reactions. let's hear from andrew in maryland, pessimistic line. caller: basically, the reason we should be pessimistic is first both parties are bought and paid for and we can look at this quickly where the bite and admin affirmed his decision to enact the highest medicare premium hikes in history just before the elections. further, with the fed comments you made, that is spot on and no one is talking about it. we have had a bond market bubble and now it is the fleeting, so

the fed has bought so many treasury bonds to the tune of trillions. on top of that, mortgage-backed securities. they bought more than they did in the 2008 relief. we are watching all these asset bubbles began to deflate. mortgage rates have gone from 3% to over 6% in about six months. that is counter to the fed mandate, which is stability. so what is going to happen is no one is going to be able to afford those high housing prices and that is going to cause a housing crash, whether you believe it or not. it is going to happen. jay powell oversaw a corrupt federal reserve board of governors. kaplan and rosengren resigned and kaplan was doing multimillion dollar future

trading. what happened to him? nothing. host: when you see a housing crash coming, what does that look like? caller: i could not find a house because the market was so competitive in my area. the rate i locked in back in december was 3%. and, as time passed, they could not lock in the rate because it was maybe six months out. basically, every month that went by and those mortgage rates picked up meant that i could afford to pay less and less, so basically people who thought they were locked in at 3%, they could no longer afford to pay that price, that sticker price

at the quoted mortgage rate, so you take that look, people who are trying to finance houses, they are going to end up having to step out of the market until prices come down to match what they can afford on their interest rate, so -- you have seen the mortgage rates go above 6% now. naturally, the prices are going to have to go down to balance out what the monthly payment is affordable for them. host: do you think with the rising interest rates -- that is still high prices cannot record high prices for housing, that there are a lot of people waiting on the sidelines because they cannot afford the price of the house and now they cannot afford the mortgage? caller: exactly. this depresses work first and foremost keeping people on the

sidelines. second was the crazy demand. you cannot compete with a cash offer, which is another thing. the 0% interest rates for the federal funds rate, big wall street dealers were able to get cheap money and then they could start funding their own housing landlord businesses and week when the consumers, we do not have access to 0% interest -- 0.25%, so we are beholden to whatever the financial product is down the line from people like j.p. morgan, wells fargo. they get their money from the fed for cheap and then they can go ahead and pay in cash. host: i appreciate your call this morning. this is a headline from politico . biden strains for message on deteriorating economy. he was speaking yesterday at a

convention in philadelphia. [video clip] >> the economy made extraordinary progress and put american position to tackle worldwide problems, inflation, that is sapping the strength of a lot a family is. i grew up in a household not far from here were the price of a gallon of gasoline going up was a conversation at the dinner table. it matters to my working family. it mattered with the price of food went up. the problem is cannot republicans in congress are doing everything they can to stop my plans to bring down the costs on ordinary families. that is why my plan is not finished and why the results are not finished either. jobs are back. prices are still too high. covid is down, but gas prices are up.

our work is not done, but here's the deal. america still has a choice to make, a choice between a government by the fuel, for the fuel, or a government for all of us. democracy for all of us, and economy were all of us have a fair shot and a chance to earn our place in the economy. my plan is simple. first, i'm doing everything in my power to blunt putin's gas price hike. since he invaded ukraine, it has gone up a dollar 75 -- $1.74 a gallon because of nothing but that. so i have a plan to bring on the cost of gas and food. it is going to take time, but let the world coordinate the largest release of oil from the global fund in history, one million barrels a day.

and 240 million barrels to push global supply if i convince other nations to join us to keep prices from rising even more. host: on twitter, this one saying republicans ain't going to fix it in terms of the economy. they want to give investors more tax cuts. this one thing groceries are up 20%, gas up 80%, college of 5000 percent -- up 5000%. republicans refused to vote for bills that will fight inflation. who is to blame? this one saying i believe the war in ukraine is not putting enough pressure. and derek saying i am sure everyone who just sold their homes in an overinflated market are optimistic about buying a

home once the market corrects itself. are you optimistic or pessimistic on the u.s. economy? if you are optimistic, (202) 748-8000. pessimistic, (202) 748-8001. on our optimist line, brentwood, maryland next up, richard. caller: i would be more hopeful if the biden administration would have the conviction and backbone to do what nixon did and put in price controls for 60 days to get the country through the summer months and show corporate america -- they are squeezing the economy. it has come out on many occasions that they are gouging with their profits and their bottom line is showing it and they are really doing the legwork for the republican party to gain control by building up to satisfaction for the november vote. if we vote republicans back in, it is going to deadpan out again. they asked mcconnell not long ago, what are your policies to

get the economy out of this tailspin inflation? his reply was you will have to vote for us to see. what kind of sleight of tongue is that, that you want people to vote? they do not want to state what they would do because they do not know what to do. republicans never have the executive leadership to govern this country. they are a good opposition party , telling lies about what you are not doing, but when they get their hands on power, we fizzled out. i hope that biden would consider price controls for 60 days. energy would be frozen, which affects our other products and services, and we might have a chance to get out of this. show me historically what they have done good. they have never led a recovery. they have always inherited a

recovery and then blow it up. george bush the second, george bush the first. i am optimistic that they will take those stern measures just to get us through the summer with price controls and it will all pan out. i thank you for the opportunity. host: thanks for the call. we will go to missouri and kent on the optimistic line. caller: good morning, bill. i do not know old goofy greg who calls. he calls every week. mr. mcardle calls in. i am looking out here at a little bit of livestock, all my sheep, all my cattle bringing more than they were a year,

highest price i ever sold any of those was under barack obama and now i'm selling the highest price sheep i have ever sold in my life. so what little piece of land i got is worth more. it is nothing but good. back in 1998 under bill clinton, the price of oil got down to $12.50. then bush got us up. it was $118 today. some of these people who call in , tell us the oil companies are not screwing us over. host: how much have you had to adjust your profit margins? you are selling sheep at record prices, but it is certainly costing you more to run your farm, correct? caller: yes, sir. the grain producers are selling the highest price grain they

have ever sold in their lives. in 1884, i sold to a manufacturing and ronald reagan was breaking farmers and i put a bumper sticker on my bug shield that said vote republican and cry for four more years. we had the democrats in congress sell us the contribution to serve program to try to say farmers because they were going broke right and left. a guy named willie nelson and john mellencamp, that -- they had a tour try to get money to put into farmers' hands, so anytime republicans are in

working people are screwed, but they are not smart. it is like these people on january 6. i do not want to get too out of line, but goofy greg calls in every week and he gave john a bunch ofcra -- a bunch of crap the other day and always does. host: next come on the optimistic line, carol. caller: i agree completely with the man that just spoke. he has a lot of wisdom. trump inherited a good economy. he did not do jack. what he did was lie to the american people and try to overthrow the government. never before have we ever tried to overthrow our own government.

here i am, a veteran. do we understand what he tried to do to this country? and he lies all the time. why would you praise a man like that? what does it help a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul? america is losing its soul. we asked for a king and got saul . you ask for donald trump and you get people. -- evil. caller: i feel at least for the short term pessimistic because the democrats for whatever reason never know anything about economics and i will just take one segment, the energy sector. what they need to do, like a first caller was talking about, 9000 permits but nobody ever

corrects the record on it. i never hear anybody on c-span correct people either. they used to give out five-year permits and leases but now they are 12 months because they are trying to destroy fossil fuels and to the energy is not just putting gas in the tank but you have fertilizers for farmers, plastics and other materials made from petroleum. it is not something you can just say let's put up a bunch of solar panels when the country needs energy. you have to get repose back in, get sanity back to running the economy, and then you will have lower prices and get energy where it needs to be. they need to be able to draw on land where it is available, not just permits where you cannot do anything and only for 12 months. that is why they are not using them, but nobody ever points that out. host: thanks for that observation. an article here looking at the

role of the supply chain and covid in china and the u.s. economy, with a headline from the washington post. warehouses are packed. the warehouses in china and the united states are stuffed with unsold televisions, refrigerators, sofas, a shared sign of diverging pandemic recoveries look at harold were -- renewed pressure on global supply chains. merchandise is piling up for different reasons in each country. in the united states, consumers are spending more on in person experiences like restaurant meals rather than on goods as they did last year, a switch that has left retail stockpiles at a record high. chinese inventories are rising as a result of the zero covid policy, which depressed consumer spending in recent months while allowing factories to keep producing. inventories of finished goods in april equaled more than 21 days of sales for the first time in at least 12 years according to a research consultancy.

selling off these mountains of goods will shape the world's largest economies. discounts could offer american shoppers some retail bargains, although economists say any savings on leaf blowers and laptops will do little to reduce the inflation rate. at a conference yesterday, senate republican leaders critical of the administration, including wyoming's. [video clip] >> there was more bad news this past week for american families struggling to get by in the joe biden economy. gas prices, highest ever in the history of the united states today, over five dollars a gallon on average across the country. the inflation numbers that came out last week were even worse than experts anticipated. while inflation numbers are high, it is even higher than that for people going to the grocery store. you go buy things that normal people by, hamburger, milk,

soup, all those things are of much higher than the average rate of inflation. so people really are struggling. they are having a hard time just keeping up with where they were last year. it is costing them more to do that. they feel crushed in this biden economy. what is it democrats had to say about it? they had two responses. one is surprise and the other is smug superiority. the surprise came from the secretary of the treasury last week when she was in the finance committee, and she said she was surprised at how negative people feel about the economy and amazed about the pessimism that was out there. you are talking about people in the democrat party, tone deaf on all of this stuff, failing to see the suffering that the american people are living with now. host: more of your calls.

rhonda is next in jacksonville, north carolina, optimistic on the u.s. economy. tell us why. caller: i want to say i agree with the lady from fort bragg, north carolina. can you hear me? host: we can. mute your volume. caller: ok. i just want to say i agree with the lady from fort bragg. trump is crazy and it is proven that he is crazy by looking at these hearings. i would rather have somebody in charge of our country that is not going to overthrow our government when we lose our democracy and pay more for gas and have our democracy than to have somebody like trump in charge, but the bottom line is virtually every republican in congress voted against baby formula, child tax credits, cheaper insulin, stimulus checks, background checks, veteran cancer care, and ending

domestic terrorism, so what is the gop? they are cruel, but i am not here to bash them. i'm here to say you have people with $100,000 cars and trucks going to the gas station complain about gas. if you can afford a $50,000 vehicle, you can afford to pay a little more in gas. the economy is everywhere across the whole -- it is worldwide. people are paying higher prices in every country. the united states is the -- is number four. we have three other countries paying more for gas than we are. we have the war in ukraine. we had covid. when biden became president, he had to deal with all that covid because trump left him a mess. and biden has been trying to clean up everything that trump screwed up when he was president. thank god for mike pence that we

did not lose our democracy, and i would recommend that everybody needs to look at these january hearings to see what a crook trump is and how he hopefully will go to prison for treason. host: those hearings are live here on c-span. they resume tomorrow at 1:00 eastern, including on the free c-span now mobile app. edgewater, florida is next. on the pessimistic line, it is jay. caller: i am disappointed in hearing everybody about trump. the january 6 mission is a political show boat so they can gain more votes and tried to image trump later.

that has nothing to do with the economy. the problem with the economy is if you keep pumping fake money into its that is going to drive prices up. that is why the stock market is down. i have never seen a president come out and blame everybody but himself. he has taken no response ability for any of the problems we are having now. it is everybody else's fault. now, because there is a midterm coming up, it is the republicans' fault. if anybody is calling, remember joe biden has a majority in the house and the senate because it is 50-50 and with the vice president's vote that makes it 51. you need to stop allowing these people to call and claim that trump is a criminal. first, there is no proof of any criminal activity whatsoever by anybody and you allow these people to spew this while you're just sitting there.

you need to correct people about this. at least get them to understand this commission is not a criminal trial. host: james is next in ohio on the optimistic line. go ahead. caller: i think republicans or people that support donald trump think that everybody is totally against trump because it is donald trump, but that is not accurate. i think the policies and things before us are a problem. i am optimistic because i have been watching and they had the same problem during world war ii. they had the problem with ronald reagan, richard nixon. they have raised the wealth tax on people for gouging the prices and that is what is going on now.

once this is done, our gas problems and all those things are going to go away. once that does happen, we will be all right. like the lady from north carolina, everybody needs to watch this january 6 episode going on now, going again tomorrow. we all need to see this because some people, for whatever reason , cannot be convinced of anything until they see it and know what is going on. maybe we will be here. if republicans get back in and there is not a threat, because it may happen, when they get back and we are going to be a country similar to all these places they think we do not want to be like, like russia, venezuela. it is going to be a combination of that kind of stuff. host: in the washington post,

members of the resident's administration have a column this morning supporting the administration on touting what they say the and ministration has done on the economy and inflation. they write over the past year and a half americans have gotten back to work in record numbers, faster than during any previous recovery in modern history. the share of people between the ages of 25 and 54 who are employed, a metric economists watch closely to understand the health of the labor market, has recovered faster since april 2020 than it did during the previous four recoveries. this recovery has also been more equitable than those in the past. the share of black men now employed exceeds the share immediately before the pandemic, which was not the case during the last two economic downturns.

overall, labor force per dissipation is below pre-pandemic levels due in part to demographic trends. we have more work to do to ensure all americans who want to work can, but the labor market is closing the gap faster than during the past two recoveries. monty is in texas and he is pessimistic on the economy. caller: yes. i am pessimistic on the economy until more americans do more to educate themselves. we had trump stating that america was energy independent. anyone who is not ignorant knows this is a falsehood. america imports thousands of gallons of refined gasoline every day. if we were truly energy independent, this would not be the case. america lacks the refining capacity to turn shale oil into gasoline and that is the reason we became a net energy exporter,

which is not the same as energy independent. if we were energy independent, when texas show oil went to negative prices per barrel under trump we would have had $.99 gas, but we lack the refining capacity. i encourage all americans, do your due diligence. stop with the confirmation bias addiction seeking and stories, stop the american people fighting against each other and educate yourself. we have never been energy independent. we never will be until people educate themselves. host: a headline from the new york times this morning. downplaying oil, the white house firms up biden's saudi trip. president biden's trip to saudi arabia has been set for next month, the white house announced tuesday. officials played down the chance of securing much help in

stabilizing energy markets. mr. biden will make his first trip to the middle east as president july 13 to july 16, stopping first in israel before happening -- heading to saudi arabia, where he will meet with the crown prince, the reported mastermind of the brutal assassination of a saudi dissident with american ties. the trip was generating waves of criticism even before he was officially announced. human rights activists and even some of mr. biden's fellow democrats announced the idea the president shaking hands with the saudi leader said to have ordered the killing and dismemberment of democracy -- jamal khashoggi, who wrote a column for the washington post. members of congress, republicans come also critical of that trip and efforts to lower the price of gas reportedly through the trip.

here is steve scalise in the house and his comments yesterday. caller: joe biden -- [video clip] >> joe biden is getting ready to announce that he is going to fly to saudi arabia to beg them to produce more oil. think about the lunacy of that. joe biden talks about global warming all the time. i wonder how many people are going to ask joe biden what the carbon footprint of his trip to saudi arabia is, over 5000 miles traveled to beg saudi princes to produce more oil after he backed vladimir putin to produce more oil and he said no. a few weeks ago when he tried to call them, they do not even return his phone call. you do not need to go to saudi arabia to find a way to produce more energy. it is right here in america. you can go to louisiana, my district, the hub of drilling in the gulf of mexico, where joe biden shut down production on

american lands, shut down american energy. he could fly 1000 miles, less than a thousand miles. i can tell you do not have to wonder what the answer will be if you ask them if they will produce more energy in louisiana. their answer will be yes because they know how to produce good, clean american energy, cleaner than anywhere else in the world. do not fly over 5000 miles to saudi arabia where you do not know the answer because they are a cartel. opec is a cartel, a monopoly. they like a higher price of gasoline. even if they said yes, the energy they produce is not as clean as what we produce in america because we have the best standards. what also is important is by saying no to american energy as joe biden did, day one when he came in the white house, by going and asking saudi to produce more energy, that takes money out of america's coffers,

so america actually makes the largest producing federal agency for tax revenue is the department of interior, drilling on federal and state lands, public and private lands, generates more income than any other agency next to the irs and that money is the pleading. it mean to states like louisiana actually share the revenue when they drill for oil, so my colleagues in north dakota are seeing a decrease in school budgets because joe biden shut down american energy and that takes money out of the school system coffers. host: a quick look at a couple primary elections. nevada's nominee to challenge a democratic senator will go on to challenge her in the general election.

they write it lacks the grace of -- based on unfounded claims of systemic fraud. allies of the former president campaigned on his behalf. in texas, especially election -- a special election. republican florez democrat dan sanchez in a special election in the 34th congressional district, part of which falls along the u.s.-mexico border. florez is the first mexican-american to be elected to congress and won in the district which biden won by four points in 2020. comments on social media on our morning question, this one saying joe biden campaigned against fossil fuel extraction and is then surprised there is less of it and companies are

holding back capital in an era of esg mandates and difficult financing, biden reaping what he and others have sown. whether you feel optimistic or pessimistic, if republicans get back in power they will take undeserved credit for those lower priced coming from china because of the effects of the pandemic and supply chain issues. republicans cannot govern. surely is in louisiana, next on the pessimistic line. caller: i am commenting on the speech about creating jobs. i do not know for who. the residence of the parish cannot get the government jobs. the work is out of illegal aliens received in the middle of the night.

they are coming in for pregnancy tests. this administration is killing our country and so are our local officials. the only ones getting the benefits of this administration are the people on the free train. thank you for taking my call. host: on our optimistic line, florida, lou. you are on the air. caller: yes, i am here. a couple things. this little statement by mr. scalise, regarding oil from saudi arabia, oil is much cheaper coming from saudi arabia. it is much more economical to use their oil than it is to drill our own. number two, the gop put donald

trump in there for a reason. he is not qualified. he signed things that people should vote on and number two, a typical example was the tax structure. i mean, we are making $220 per year in tax revenue. i mean, that is $18 as of this year. could we use that somewhere? and here is my thing, he was so worried about his campaign. he has done a lot of strange things. another issue with the economy was the tariffs. the tariff increase to other countries, it is nothing but nasa redefined.

what is going on is that we charge more tariffs to another country and all they do is adjust the price structure to make numbers and compensate for the tax. and we charge increased prices because we are already maxed out. we are paying tax in the market for both him and us. donald trump is not qualified. i'm sorry. host: that is lou in florida here on washington journal. there is more ahead, we will continue the conversation about the economy with economist stephen moore. he is a senior economist with freedom works. we will talk about the economy and more, and we will hear from you as well. later, jennifer diaconate joins us from denver. she will have the latest on the severe drought conditions and

the water shortages in the west. >> january 6 public hearings continue as they release evidence gathered in their investigation. tune in thursday of the committee examines how then- president trump may have pressured vice president pence to not certify president biden's election. watch live thursday at 1:00 p.m. eastern time on c-span3, c-span now, our free mobile video app, or anytime online at c-span.org. you can also visit our website, c-span.org/january6 to watch previous hearings and other videos related.

c-span, your unfiltered view of government. if you are enjoying book tv, then sign up for our newsletter using the qr code on the screed to see the schedule of upcoming programs, author discussions, book festivals and more. every sunday on c-span2 or anytime online at book tv.org. television for serious readers. >> american history tv, saturdays unsuspended 2. -- on c-span 2. exploring the people and events that tell the american story. and lectures in history, on the 50th anniversary of the watergate break-in, american university professor joseph campbell talks about the 1972 scandal and what he calls the myth of heroic journalism. he argues that congress and others kids riveted to the

downfall of the nixon presidency and it was not solely caused by the washington post already. then, the president and ceo of the lbj foundation talks about his book "incomparable grace: jfk and the presidency" in his reassessment of john f. kennedy have jfk grew dealing with investing in foreign challenges. saturday on c-span two. find the full schedule on your program guide, or watch online anytime at c-span.org/history. washington journal continues. host: jody nessa stephen moore, freedom works senior economist and former senior advisor for the 2016 campaign. joining us this morning to talk

about the economy and the biden administration policies to address things like laois and. welcome back. guest: thank you for having me. host: we started asking our viewers about whether they are optimistic or pessimistic on the economy where do you stand? guest: i am pretty pessimistic right now. we seen this huge selloff in the stock market, this has been an incredible bear market over the last three months, but investors have watched by my estimate about $10 trillion in this huge selloff that seems to be continuing day after day, although it looks like the futures are up this morning. that is a big loss for americans. people's pension funds, 401(k) plans, and that the liquidity you need. i'm worried about that. i'm worried about the massive borrowing that is going on in washington. i spoke yesterday to someone in

the budget committee in the house about all the spending that is going on in washington, that has been enormous amounts of money. last year, we got $3 trillion of spending that the economy didn't need, and i thought that was the match that lit this forest fire of higher inflation. i think it is an incredibly precarious time for the economy right now. i'm hoping that we can skate around a recession. as you know, the official definition of a recession is two straight quarters of negative growth. we have negative growth in the first quarter, but it looks like the second quarter is going to be not negative, but not positive. 1% is the latest estimate. we are skating on the edge of a recession. i hope we can avert it but right now, it doesn't look very positive. host: fed, there was a meeting today and they will reportedly adjust interest rates half a percent or three orders a percent. do you think that of the right move for them? guest: the latest is that is

going to be three quarters percent, or maybe 1% because we got this policy inflation rate in the last few days. yesterday, the producer price index number was up, running roughly 10%. then you got inflation running at almost 9%. those are numbers we haven't seen since the late 1970's, early 1980's. it has been four years since we got numbers that bad. i've been pretty critical of the fed over the last year. i think they've been way behind the curve in terms of trying to extinguish this inflation. they should have been raising rates last year much more aggressively. think about the narrative over the last nine months about inflation. first, the biden administration and the fed said there is no inflation. and then it got worse, for percent, 5%, 6%, and they sent to remember is transitory. that clearly didn't happen.

and then they said over the last few months it has pete or it has impeached, the numbers have gotten worse. i think that inflation is sort of like a cancer cell. you cannot let it metastasize or it just killed the economy. and we have allow that to happen. i think the fed should take very aggressive action right now to bring this inflation rate back down to at least below 5%. host: has the administration, has the fed done anything to address laois and in your view? guest: they've done a lot on inflation, and it has all been negative. i believe it is the biden administration's massive spending. by the way, donald trump, as you mentioned, i was senior advisor, he did wonderful things of the economy, but even republicans were spending way too much money. we spent on covid in the last 2.5 years or so $5 trillion. some about spending was

necessary because we were dealing with obviously this deadly virus, but we spend more and more money that we didn't have and it was pretty predictable. if you just flood the economy with cheap money, you were going to get inflation. host: obviously a lot of the pressure for consumers is at the gas pump. how much of this to you think is driven by the war in ukraine? with these prices have gone up this high -- guest: well, listen. so biden, it rests with him. when he was campaigning for president, when he debated donald trump, he hated the oil industry, he wanted to drive it out of business, so this is a direct result of the biden war on american oil and gas. you have a climate change analysis that has really taken over the democratic party who believe that congress and the president change the temperature of the planet.

the first act that joe biden past when he became president was killing the pipeline. you need pipelines to get oil and gas to the market. in my opinion, we would be producing 3 million or 4 million more barrels per day under the trump policies. if you reduce the supply of something, the price goes up host: the associated press reporting there is a letter the biden administration is sending oil. produce more gas, and fewer profits. he has been critical of the profits made in the oil industry and in other businesses as well within nation on the rise. guest: what worries me, there is all of this passing the buck by the biden administration. let me give you one example. when donald trump left office in january, 2021, these artifacts, the inflation rate was about 1.5%. 1.5%.

the inflation rate has gone from 1.5% to 8.5%. does anybody think this is a coincidence? this is a direct result of the biden policy. that that has something to do with it, but you cannot continue to massively spend and borrow trillions and trillions of dollars, republican or democrat. we know what we're are doing in washington is gone. so for the president to blame the oil companies, pharmaceutical companies, the chicken producers, it always somebody else. this is something i find unattractive about this program. he refuses to be like harry truman, one of my favorite presidents, who had a placket on his desk, the buck stops here. i am the ceo, i am the president, i take responsibility for what is happening when has biden ever taken responsibility for what is happening? host: we welcome your calls and comments on the economy. (202) 748-8001 for republicans.

democrats, (202) 748-8000. independent and other, (202) 748-8002. we will get to your calls momentarily. i want to read for you the comments. the president was on the road defending his ministrations record on the economy yesterday in philadelphia before the afl-cio. stay in listen. biden: we brought down cobit debts by 90%, schools ability -- schools and businesses were shuttered. created the greatest job recovery in american history. people don't want to talk about it days, but it's true. since i've become president, we created 8.7 million new jobs in eckstein months, an all-time record. and even last month, 390,000 jobs. and 600,000 new manufacturing jobs. they say manufacturing is dead in america. look, folks, unemployment rate

is near historic lows. 3.7%. millions of americans, i love these guys talking about a guy left my employment and went to another job. it is because he got paid more. [laughter] [applause] isn't that awful? isn't that a shame that they've got to compete for labor? better paying jobs. better jobs for them and their families. it has been a long time since that has happened in this country. it is happening now, and is working. host: the president touting his job creation record. guest: it is a strange economy right now because the president is right, the jobs market is as strong as i've seen it in 30 years. there's no question about it, we got a jobs market. about 10 million open jobs in

the country today. so that is very positive news about the economy. for people who might be sitting on the sidelines of the labor force, after two years of covid getting back in the labor force, i would encourage you to get a job now because i am really worried that you're going to see that positive job picture the president is talking about, it could disappear pretty quickly. host: what would cause that? guest: the increase in interest rates and stock market collapse. this is an incredible reduction in the amount of money that businesses have to spend. you are already starting to see some signs of the wall street journal last week about major businesses putting hiring freezes on. reducing the workforce. it is a precarious time. it is a really strange economy because you got a good jobs market, but you got inflation getting worse and worse and worse each month. i'm really pouring that you're going to see this as sort of made in the end of the already

on the jobs numbers i root for america, i want to see us create as many jobs as we can, i want to see that inflation rate down, but when i first came to town in the early 80's, i remember when we had at 12% inflation, and it was the reason that ronald reagan got the election come out of control inflation. the way we had to get out of that, around 1982, we had a terrible recession. by 12% unemployment. i don't want to see a return to that. host: your earlier comments, the headline in the washington times, the fed board meets a higher rate and anticipated. the producer price index, which gauges inflation before it hits consumers, surgeon 10.8% -- surged earlier. concerns about aggressive

action. tell us more about this producer price index and the rise here. guest: we've got the consumer price index which is what you pay at the store. food, cars, gasoline. and then you have the producer index, the producers of the companies. what they pay, for example, to get the merchandise that they're going to sell. usually, when the producers are paying more, what do you think they do? they have to pass on the cost to consumers. thousand one of the reasons i don't think we fit peak consumer price inflation yet. at some point, the companies have to go out of business. i think we are going to see a few more months of those inflation numbers. i do think the inflation is going to start to come down, so that is the positive news, but i also think the unemployment rate is going to start to go up.

host: republican, detroit, good morning. caller: i'm not too optimistic because as i understand it, i am no scholar, i thought the united states dollar was the world reserve currency and with the whole russia thing going on, that is not going to look too good for the dollar. in terms of our politics, we've just had democrats and republicans already capable of feeding the military-industrial complex. guest: first of all, this gentleman is right that we've gotten out of control government budget. if you were to ask me, i was asked what advice would you give to this president and this congress? cut the spending, we have got to cut the spending.

we seen a $4 trillion increase over the last year and a half since biden has been in office. we saw a big increase in the deficit under the trump administration. you cannot continue to spend and borrow money you don't have. there is this new kind of economic theory that progressives have been touting which is called monetary theory, that the government can just keep borrowing and borrowing and spending and spending trillions of dollars and it is not going direct the economy as we have the reserve currency. well, how do you like it now? how do you like five dollar gasoline? how do you like used cars, everything up? when i do c-span or other shows, 8% were 9% inflation, people get angry with me. they say the things i have to buy, the gasoline, my utility bills, my rent, the food i buy, that is of not 8%, that is up 50% or 20%. the essentials that people have to vie is even more than 8.5%.

is putting a real strain on family incomes because inflation is running about 8.5%. that means americans are getting poor. caller: i'd like to ask you a couple questions. trump took over a relatively stable economy from obama and he put the deficit up by $8 trillion. our interest rates were strong at zero. americans don't have any money in the stock market. when it comes to oil prices, when covid hit in march of 2020, production went from 12 billion

barrels per day to 10 billion. now it is back up to 11.4, shipping oil. is that bidens fall? trumps tariffs against china, seven dollars per bushel per corn. there's winners and losers and these farmers are actually quite happy with the prices, so i mean, not everybody is losing on this economy. i would like to have him answer those questions, please. guest: there are a lot of good points that this gentleman made. first of all, the economy wasn't strong when obama left office. only four out of 10 americans rated the economy is good or great. so people were very concerned about the economy. we had the weakest recovery from a recession in history under obama and even the democrats admitted that in the hearing yesterday.

he took over a struggling economy, and i'm proud of what we did. we reduced taxes for american businesses to make us more competitive. we reduced the regulatory burden, we got to the top of china in terms of much tougher trade deals. we secured the border which is something that is not happening today. and we had an incredible economic boom under trump. i remember so vividly in early 2020 thinking we've got the greatest economy ever. lowest unemployment rate in 50 years, rate -- wages rising for workers of every race. and i remember thinking, something is going to happen. a meteor is going to hit or you're going to have an earthquake or something. who would have expected this virus to hit american shores, but that obviously did great damage to the economy.

i am biased, but whether you like donald trump or not, we are usually successful on the economy and i would simply say that. the trump oil production, the dollar at about 12 million barrels per day under trump. there were roughly 11 million barrels. the price of oil has doubled. in my opinion, if trump were still president, we would be producing about 4 million or 5 million more barrels per day, and think about that. with oil and $100 per barrel, we were losing roughly half $1 billion per day. $500 million per day because of this insane -- but i believe is an insane war on american oil and gas by the biden administration. they hate the industry, they want to take it down to zero. host: the caller mentioned tariffs.

the headline in the new york times, biden ways tariff rollback with china to ease even a little bit. guest: i am a free-trade guy, i don't like tariffs and taxes, and i am not an expert on this, but i do believe that china is an existential threat to the united states. you are seeing them build up their military and a very aggressive and dangerous way, you are seeing them involved in extreme predatory practices. and by the way, a lot of the supply chain problems that biden is talking about are the result of our overdependence on china. you know, i don't like tariffs, but i would keep tariffs on china because of their behavior. we are in an extremely dangerous situation with this country and let's maybe find -- let's produce more things at home with

these computer chips, and if we have tariffs on china, we can use that money to cut other taxes. i am not in favor of reducing those trump tariffs. host: alex in maryland, independent. caller: i have just one question , a follow-up question for you, and i'm not going to tell you had to do your job as a moderator for your show, but it just strikes me as if you ask somebody a question and they answer it without actually addressing the subject that you asked, it comes across as a little bit rude to me, personally. the follow-up question that i would ask you, and honesty out would be surprised if you don't even address the subject at all like you did when you asked the question the first time, do you think that the war in ukraine really had absolutely no impact

on gas prices whatsoever? guest: good, i'm glad you brought that up because i never didn't directly answer the question. absolutely the ukraine situation has added to the gas price. about 75% of the increase happened before russia went into ukraine, that there is no question about it, absolutely. russia is a major oil producer, we've lost production. the only point i would make about that is is all the more reason why we should be producing more oil and gas here at home. somebody has to explain to me how it makes any sense that we are not getting the increase in oil and gas production in texas, north dakota, alaska, pennsylvania, oklahoma, and yet now the president goes over to saudi arabia hand in glove and asks the saudis to increase their oil production when we could be getting it at home.

somebody has to explain to me how that is improving our economic situation because we could be producing so much oil and gas here at home. we don't have a shortage of oil and gas. we have 500 years worth of coal, we have to enter 50 years of oil. and don't forget that the first ask of the biden administration was to kill the keystone xl pipeline which is critical to our supply chain. and then we have these supply chain problems. maybe they wouldn't be so bad if you wouldn't kill pipelines. host: there was a question on twitter about that. how could importing the most expensive oil to refine reduce prices? oil companies can't stay in business if prices don't cover costs, right? guest: i'm not exactly sure i understand the question, but we can be producing 3 million to 4 million more barrels per day easily. the information agency predicted

we be about 50 million barrels. host: in the u.s.? guest: in the u.s. if we got it right, between canada, united states, and mexico, we wouldn't have to be reliant on any of these countries. we wouldn't have to be reliant on iran, we wouldn't have to be reliant on russia. we should actually be exporting our natural gas to europe so that we are not dependent on russia. we have massive amounts of natural gas, the cheapest in the world, so we should be producing it. people have to realize that there is a war against american oil and gas producers in washington. you go back and watch the debates between joe biden and emil trump, and biden said it himself, i want to destroy the american oil and gas industry. the irony is the oil and gas industry is making all sorts of money because the international price has gone up so much in the last year and a half. the price of oil was about $60 per barrel when trump left

office, now it is one under $20 per barrel. host: peter on the republican line, valley college, new york. caller: that's right, good morning. good to speak to you again steve, you are absolutely on the money. just like what this individual just said about keystone. it just shows that the public doesn't really understand all the dynamics involved in the economy. it is about supply. it doesn't matter if the oil stays in the united states, it is about supply and demand. the more supply, the lower the price. i want you all the time on kudlow, you do a great job. i suggest the people who watch this show watch kudlow to get an understanding of how things work. one thing they need to understand is that even if the biden administration reversed all its policies right now, it would take at least a year to a year and a half before we see any results. president reagan took three years for him to get inflation

under control. you got to reduce the supply, lower the balance sheet on the fed, slowly raise interest rates, and if we are lucky, we won't get hurt there. you are doing a great job explaining it to the public, best i've ever seen. guest: just to add one thing to what this gentleman said, if you look at the oil and gas situation, we really have an opportunity to be producing more. what about climate change, what about greenhouse gas emissions? but the united states has virtually the cleanest oil and gas. so it is not like we are consuming less, we are consuming the same amount. we need oil and gas to fuel our cars and our plans and equipment, construction companies. the difference is now we are actually importing more.

for example, one of the things that we were proud of at the end of the trump administration was the first time in your and my lifetime we were actually an exporter of oil and gas. that has never happened before. that means we reduce the trade deficit, very positive impact. now, we are in a situation 15 months later where we are actually having to import oil from russia and saudi arabia and iran. summary has got to explain to me how that makes any sense from an economic standpoint when we can be getting the oil from texas and oklahoma and north dakota. host: david on the independent line, gaithersburg, maryland. caller: my uncle, i used to get worried about inflation. it is still one of my biggest issues with the economy. my uncle used to say inflation only hurts you if your wages stay stagnant. it is crazy for the average person to try to outpace inflation with just a regular

wage. i have started doing side hustles like amazon and social media and i am trying to do what i can on my end to keep my family supported through this. and curious, i have a lot of things running around my mind right now, but i used to watch a lot of peter schiff. he always talked about how it is so difficult for the government to really deal with this kind of policy and issue with monetary because basically, it is very unpopular among the politicians. what needs to have it involved a lot of pain economically, and nobody wants to vote for that, nobody wants to be the person that causes a massive recession. they just keep printing money can printing money. is it even possible?

i don't know how to word it, but you understand, the problems of the government, they don't want to do what they need to do because it is just not in their nature. lastly, why is the price of gold not going out? thanks. host: the last one was on the price of gold, why is not going up. guest: i want to take one minute because this gentleman makes some interesting points. i want to explain to people why i think it is that we have this raised inflation. last year, we had about $3 trillion of additional spending that was unnecessary because we already had $1 trillion in the pipeline for covid. we passed a big deal under trump, which we probably didn't even need. we already have extra funding flowing into the economy. then biden came in and the first thing he did was pass the american recovery act, the $1.9 trillion.

so then, after that, we got this green energy bill back toward the end of 2021, and so you're talking about $3 trillion of massive spending. now, how does the government financed that $3 trillion? the treasury department has to issue these bonds. the federal reserve orders bonds. and of course the question is how to the federal reserve get the money to buy the bonds? well, at this gentleman just said, they printed. have control of the printing presses. that process that i just described, that is called monetizing the debt. in other words, you are printing money to pay for your government spending. i've got to tell you, i am kind of an economic historian.

that story usually doesn't have a happy ending. look at bolivia and argentina, venezuela, zimbabwe. they have higher and higher inflation. so we've got to stop this cycle or the story is going to have a real crash landing. that is why the fed today has to start taking this by the tail and getting the inflation under control. host: and do you have an answer for why the cost of gold hasn't gone up? guest: i'm puzzled by that as well. gold has traditionally been the ultimate hedge against an lesion and look what happened to the price in the 70's. it went way out. i don't have a good answer for that. i'm sort of puzzled why that is. the relentless growth of government is devouring our

economy and our freedom. came out late last year. systemically, where the biggest debts need to happen in federal government? yes: social security and medicare are the biggest driver because i think there's 80 million of us who are baby boomers who are either retired or about to retire. i'm 62, i was born in 1960. that is a lot of people to be getting all these government benefits. the other thing i would recommend to congress's we dramatically increase welfare assets. we provided food stamp benefits, unemployment benefits. $150 billion was stolen from the unemployment benefit program. in a lot of those people don't even live in the united states. congress is nothing about that. $150 billion in fraud. then you got the food stamp program.

we found in the study that we did that people could be making $80 -- $100,000 in benefits, so we've got to get back to the welfare reform saying yes, absolutely, we are going to have a safety net. a lot of people lose their jobs and become homeless or hungry. we also have to insist that people are either job training or get back in the workforce. this 10 million job openings today. there's no reason why an able-bodied person shouldn't be working and yet we are giving them all of government handouts. host: portland, oregon, democrat line, go ahead. jim, make sure you knew your television and go ahead with your question or comment. caller: yeah, i have a statement on the assumption that oil was shut down due to biden. i just did a google search, and

listen to this: host: jim? we are going to move on, we kind of lost you there. maureen thompson from new jersey on the independent line. caller: the gentleman who had just asked before about the price of gold, he said that you were confused by that. continuing four decades of bad policy, especially with deregulation under ronald reagan, margaret thatcher, the trade organization, all the centralized banks altogether. you can't say that it is on

these welfare benefits or things that are actually put out into the economy for people, these benefit programs which they do help people and they are not costing the country anything and they didn't say anything in regard to the other gentleman's question about -- i spaced on it for a second. man, now i forgot. >> this woman mentioned reagan-thatcher, this really was the beginning of the big boom and the freedom movement and the world economy that we saw in the 80's, 90's, and to thousands, when we saw a massive, massive increase in living standards and wealth in britain and the united states. it was a program to get government under control and reducing cash rates, getting regulations off the backs of our

businesses, so america could be number one in the world. and it was incredible. the stock market has gone -- just think about this. from 1981 to today, even with the selloff that we've seen, back in 1981, the dow jones was at basically 1000. today, even with the selloff, it is at 30,000. we've been through the greatest wealth creation and history of civilization over the last three or four years, and thank information back to an reagan who really launched that. on the gold issue, i'm simply going to say that i would recommend people own some gold in their portfolio, and the other thing, because people are very nervous about their stocks, i am not a financial analyst, but i will say this: the simple rule of owning stocks, buy low, sell high. a lot of people, they sell their

stocks in a down market. if you are in the market with a retirement fund and you are not going to have to pull out the money in the next 3, 5, 10, 15 years, you're going to have to ride through these things because over time, the market will go up. we will recover from this. so don't panic. host: the american rescue plan, some pushback, their analysis of that spending. they wrote in february that the american rescue plan has been criticized as being too large, overstimulating, and significantly contribute into the currently uncomfortably high inflation. this perspective is not consistent with our results they say without the arp, the u.s. economy would have come close to suffering a double-digit recession in spring of 2021. the arp is responsible for adding well over 4 million jobs in 2021. the economy is currently on track to recover all the jobs lost from the pandemic by the

second quarter of this year, if there have been no arp, it would've taken another year for the economy to recover all these jobs. that is from february. guest: that report was done by a gentleman, market, with all due respect, has probably been the wrongest economist out there. probably can find any economist to has been more wrong in his predictions. he predicted that the obama stimulus back into thousand nine was going to create millions and millions of jobs. so he is wrong now. it's pretty simple, government spending doesn't stimulate the economy. the only way that the government can give a dollar to you is to take a dollar from me. there is no free lunch out there, there is no tooth fairy to pass out free money. all we are really doing is redistributing income and putting the nation further in debt.

people may think that this agenda has been a great success, but i was just looking at the numbers that just came out in the last week, these are about three or four different polls. 80% of americans, 80% believe the united states economy is on the wrong front right now. that is a huge number. that is the highest number we've seen. another number just came out from the national federation of independent business. small business pessimism right now is the highest they've seen in 40 years. there is something seriously wrong with our economy right now. we have got to correct this and in my opinion, it begins with pulling back on all government spending. host: michael in madison, wisconsin, independent. caller: my question is the keystone pipeline, is across a couple states with the aquifers,

right? how much do you think the price of water would cost? a second quick question, could we do emergency industrial act and get some of our tankers from iraq to move oil? thanks. guest: i am not the world expert on pipelines but i will say that first of all, we need a national network of pipelines around this country so we can transport oil and gas because it is the cheapest way to do it and also the most environmentally safe way to transport oil and gas. how many times do you read about a tragic story of a tanker crashing and huge fires, railroad covers crashing? it is much, much more efficient to use pipelines.

i've been using the keystone pipeline. we need dozens more pipelines. just as a transport water for pipelines, we need to do the same with oil and gas. and when i hear bidens they we have a supply chain problem across the economy, guess what? a big part of the supply chain is transporting her energy and we are not doing a very good job of that. host: thanks for being with us this morning. guest: always a pleasure, thanks for c-span. host: just a bit later on, we will be joined by jennifer, reporting from denver on the severe drought and the water shortage conditions in the u.s. west. up next, it is open forum on the program, your chance to weigh in on the economy if you would like and other issues as well. republicans, it is (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independent and other, (202) 748-8002. we will be right back.

our web resource page where you can watch the latest videos of the hearings, briefings, and all of our coverage on the attack and subsequent investigations. since january 6, 2020 one, we will also have a reaction from members of congress and the white house. former journalists and authors talking about the investigation. go to c-span.org/january6 for a fast and easy way to watch when you can't see it live. the up-to-date and the latest in publishing with booktv's podcast about books with current nonfiction book releases, plus

bestseller lists as well as industry news and trends through insider interviews. you can find it on c-span now, our free mobile app, or wherever you get your books from. c-span has unfiltered coverage of the u.s. response to russia's invasion of ukraine, bringing the latest from the president and other white house officials, the pentagon, and the state department. international perspective from the united nations and statements from foreign leaders, all on c-span networks. the c-span now free mobile app and c-span.org/ukraine. our web resource page where you can watch the latest videos on demand and follow tweets from journalists on the ground. washington journal continues.

host: it is open forum, where chance to call in and weigh in on political issues and public policy to your folic -- democrats,, (202) 748-8000. independent and other, (202) 748-8002. reporting on the potential gun legislation on capitol hill, the headlines, gun deals to close boyfriend loophole. in response to mass shootings, a bipartisan group of senators reached a deal on a gun build that would close the boyfriend loophole that allows some domestic abusers to buy firearms. usa today writes that gun-control activists have tried to close the loophole for years but like most legislation, efforts visible. including ensuring that domestic abusers are barred from

acquiring guns. the centers deal got a boost to hang when senate minority leader mitch mcconnell, who a staunch supporter of gun rights announced he would support the bipartisan framework of the gun package. here is senator mitch mcconnell. >> senator cornyn who i asked to be the point person on our side to see if we can come to an outcome after these horrible school shootings, and his teammates indicated that you had reported a coming together on a framework which hopefully can be turned into legislative language and pass. for myself, i am comfortable with the framework and if the legislation ends up reflecting what the framework indicates, i will be supportive.

host: the u.s. senate today, you can follow live coverage over and c-span2. the house today is in a 10:00 for morning hour. is open forum, let's get to johnstown, pennsylvania. guest: attacked the middle-class, back with their answer to the economy. that would stop by the supreme court of the united states because of all the lawsuits that didn't play out. and then president biden did kill the project after that. 8% of the pipeline was completed

. the oil is corrosive and toxic. that is one of the reason why the pipeline was stopped. that is another reason why the pipeline was stopped. that is why they are building a pipeline across canada through vancouver. host: good morning, independent line. caller: he was very critical of obama when obama was in office. now he's being critical of biden. i would just like to find out if they figured out the pandemic.

he had to take these actions necessarily, but that was supposed to be a little bit of inflation involved in it. now it is just oil companies and of the summer -- other companies extorting it is price gouging. host: next up is cecil in alexandria, virginia. caller: i wanted to address some of the voices coming out of the south that are misplaced. furthermore, as -- stated in his wonderful book, he said that a european man raped so many black

women that diversity collapsed. they are talking about the social disorder families. and they never go back to the history and said well, yes, these folks is wrong. often times they left them in agony. one other thing really quickly, they talk about black on black crimes. in world war ii, be killed roughly 250 million souls. germans killed over 28 russians. that black to black crime cannot even compare to what is going on in black communities. that still needs to be addressed. you need to turn that microscope inside your soul and see. host: republican line next, open forum, cleveland, tennessee. caller: i just have a brief

statement. yes, how are you? host: fine, thanks. caller: you know a great deal of people -- host: you're on the air, go ahead. jess, turn down your volume and go ahead with your comment. i'm sorry, you're getting -- caller: you know, a great deal of people -- host: sorry my friend, you've got to make sure you turn down your television when you call in. we will go to chris and hanson, arkansas. caller: hello. host: hi there. caller: i have a silly idea about the ukrainian situation. the ukrainian civil forces or military invade that nato country estonia but not real.

just go over there and kidnap somebody if you times. now, nato would invade ukraine, etc.. just my idea. some host: news from that region from the new york times this morning. u.s. athlete to be jailed in russia through june. election court on tuesday on drug smuggling charges until july 2. pushing hers jail stint past the four-month live according to the official statement. the region granted the 18 day extension at the request of investigators. the agency quoted the court's press as saying it is typical of russian courts to extend detention tension repeatedly until trial. they could not immediately be reached for comment. the american basketball star was arrested for months ago after russian officials said they

found vape cartridges bearing traces of hash oil in her luggage russia was passing through moscow's international airport. the charge carries a jail sentence of up to 10 years. she was arrested on february 17, one week before russia invaded ukraine. officials did not reveal that she had been detained until days after the war began, raising fears that she might be used as a bargaining chip in the overall crisis. northcross georgia, next up on the independent line. caller: thank you, sir. thank you, c-span. i always love listening to you guys. i just wanted to say, stephen moore, he was honest with you, he told you he was not an economist. no, he's a politician. so he gave all the credit to ronald reagan and margaret thatcher.

well, it was jimmy carter who appointed paul volcker. paul volcker was the fed chair who had the temerity to raise the interest rates up in line with and above inflation. and that is what killed inflation. and caused the recession in 1980. i happened to be working for a defense contractor at the time, so my job was safe, and i did very well during that time, but everybody wants to give credit to these republicans trickle-down economists. is all lies. you know? the stuff never works. what we have going on right now, we have inflation gathering only

because we are the issue of our own currency. when he said the only way the government gives money to one person is taking it away from another person, no. we issue our own currency. and then we have to live up to it. and that is what this little inflation patch is right now. host: paul, democrat line. caller: thanks, c-span, for everything. i just wanted to agree with an earlier caller who pointed out that what we should really be talking about is the impact of the pandemic on the economy. going back to the previous administration, i think it is to have a political guest like the one that was on this morning,

but basically all that we hear was that it was all the democrats fault, best economy in 50 years under trump, intentionally left out that until it was the worst economy under trump, the greatest poverty and food lines in cities. and the democrats will go on blaming trump for everything, but i think more than just opinions that just put us in air camps, we should have really economist on here and talk about supply and demand issues, when the pandemic, really really hit us. we are all out and about spending. when that happens, demand increases and the prices will go up. it will correct, it is hard right now. hard for other people as well. i would just like to see a little bit more, i guess,

considerate thought around some of these economic fundamentals rather than just people coming on and saying something about obama. host: appreciate the recommendations. some political reporting from politico this morning on yesterday's primaries, here are the headlines trump takes down his first impeachment victim, five takeaways from a big primary night. the first house republican to vote for donald trump's impeachment and face a truck-endorsed travel under in a primary paid the price for in south carolina. maine set up a potential preview of a rematch in 2024 in southern texas swinging right. the midterm primary calendar has now worked through nearly half the state with primaries on tuesday in south carolina, nevada, north dakota, and maine. here are the five takeaways from that night. one of them, impeachment is a killer. if we learn anything from the

primary, is that trump is not invincible. brian can't and brad raffensperger both stumped -- who voted to create a bipartisan commission in last week's primary. in south carolina, representative nancy mace, despite her criticism of the former president has since won the race. if there's -- the other closely watched house race, tom rice who voted to impeach trump and never backed off his criticism lost his primary to the trump-endorsed russell fry. gail is in tallahassee, florida, republican line. caller: i've been listening to some of the callers from the last couple of days and i have

heard a couple mention something about trump and his new jersey casino. did you know that trump was actually working with the fbi? they begged him to build the casino and he didn't want to because there were so many bad mafia guys there. and the fbi actually convinced him to do that because they said that's how they wanted to catch him -- catch the mafia. so he built the casino and after they caught everybody they wanted to, this is all documented. i had to send it to my nephew to make him believe it. there is three different government sites. another thing is i wish everybody would go to a site

called bitchute.com and type in "open your eyes." it will talk about the child trafficking that's been going on and that's what trump was trying to stop. host: a couple of programs we are covering, events we are covering on the c-span networks. getting underway this morning at 10 :00 eastern, the senate judiciary committee and their hearing on gun violence live beginning at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span three. 2:00 eastern, the director of the office of national drug policy will deliver the plan to reduce opioid deaths. any time at c-span.org and on the mobile app, c-span now. and of course the next hearing of the january 6 select

committee is coming up tomorrow, thursday, 1:00 p.m. eastern live on c-span three, c-span.org or on the go at c-span now. detroit on the independent line, anthony, welcome. caller: good morning. i'm on the independent line because democrats and republicans have gotten us into the situation. especially when it comes to international affairs abroad, the state department, they some someone -- send someone like anthony bolton, pompeo, hillary clinton, they don't represent me in other countries how i would interact with some of the americas. even the president of mexico wouldn't show up in los angeles or joe biden going to saudi arabia. i wouldn't do any of these

things in this fashion so they don't represent me and i don't think the american people. that's why we should stop with republicans and democrats. host: riverdale, georgia, amelia, democrats line. caller: good morning. thanks for the opportunity. i'm sitting here and i'm laughing because it is kind of sad that so many people, the lady that called earlier about all this conspiracy about the casino, but that's not what i called for. i agree with the gentleman that called earlier about the oil companies favoring the republicans because they definitely want the republicans in office, because all the republicans talk about his tax breaks and -- is tax breaks and they want to do away with medicare.

i wish you would have a social security person on your show. they want to do away -- the republicans have a plan to cut down medicare and social security and also, people talk about all this great stuff that trump did. trump didn't do anything. the veterans choice, obama passed that in 2014. president bush started -- in 2007 and every year it has been better. during the trump administration actually, there was more use of russian oil than during the biden administration. the american people need to wake up because what's going on here, the republicans want to do away with taxes, they want to cut down entitlements, and if you don't realize that republicans have been in charge of congress since 2010.

they won the house in 2010 and since then they've been in charge of the senate. nothing gets done because they are in charge. they have all the power. people keep blaming biden about different things. biden hasn't had a chance to pass any policies. policies to help the disabled, the poor, the people that work in this country. it is all about money. follow the money, people, and if you want your medicare and social security, then vote democrat. host: we mentioned the support of mitch mcconnell with some of the legislation that's been developed by a bipartisan group of senators on gun issues, gun violence. here is senator chris murphy of connecticut, the leading democrat on that group. here's what he had to say. [video clip] senator murphy: thank you that believing that a bipartisan compromise on guns was possible

despite 28 years of evidence to the contrary. i'm really grateful to senator cornyn and senator tillis and senator sinema and the broader members of our group of 12 republicans and democrats that worked for the last three weeks to achieve a breakthrough. there is no doubt that our framework is a breakthrough. it is not a coincidence that this congress for 30 years couldn't deal with the epidemic of gun violence because over and over again it was easier to retreat to political corners then make tough compromise. i do see this as a breakthrough. the bill in and of itself will save thousands of lives. i have no doubt about that, between helping states adopt red flag laws, closing the boyfriend loophole, requiring a rigorous check before young buyers can purchase weapons and creating

new tools for law enforcement to go after gun trafficking rings. this bill, even if we never passed another anti-gun violence bill, will make an enormous difference on the rates of violence in this country. i am grateful to others who have made sure the that a tax will be a historic investment in mental health spending. that investment alone will save thousands of lives as well. we are now in the process of drafting this legislation but the heavy lifting is done. all we are doing now is taking a framework and putting it into legislative text and i am confident that we can get there soon. host: that's some of the reporting this morning on the january 6 select committee, this is "the washington post" -- "panel split over making criminal referrals after a

relatively united front, divisions among lawmakers investigating the january 6 capital riot are coming into view. the chief one revolves the dutch around one of the most closely watched questions, whether to make any criminal referrals. ben thompson told reporters monday evening, capping an evening -- that the committee would not be making a formal criminal referral to the justice department of the former president. "that's not our job," he said. "our job is to look at the facts and circumstances, what caused it, and after that no doubt thompson's panel is far from unanimous. "the january 6 committee has not issued a conclusion on potential criminal referrals.

we will announce the decision added appropriate time," tweeted representative liz twain -- liz cheney. "if criminal activity occurred, it's our responsibility to report that to the doj." representative adam schiff also weighed in saying in an interview that the committee had yet to discuss -- have a discussion on the issue. he thought, he said that any decision would have to wait until the investigation had concluded. more from open forum, robert up next in st. petersburg, florida, on the republican line. caller: good morning. if joe biden was the chief executive officer of any fortune 500 company, he would have been fired nine months ago. thank you. host: seattle, washington, mark is on the democrats line -- excuse me, in seattle. caller: yes, sir.

when i am a combat medic in the foxhole in training or combat, i don't look over to my buddy and say are you a republican or democrat? we are americans. it is time to unify and come together and build back our military make sure we feed our people and have a roof over their heads. thank you very much for c-span. host: greensboro, north carolina, william, go ahead. caller: good morning. i just want to say first that the trump administration was kind of lucky because he had something called the air of good feeling which only happens every 80 years. it also destroyed everything. i don't understand where all this disconnect is with january 6. the bush administration came up with the patriot act and if you read it, all of those people involved would be considered a terrorist group.

that goes back to the 1970's with the black panthers and isis, the same kind of thing they did. they were just a bunch of caucasian males and females and i think that's the issue. how come they are not getting treated the same way as isis or a black panther? that's a problem. i work in a grocery store and i have seen no real changing in people shopping in the last two years of the pandemic, and i work at walmart. i think the economy will get better but joe biden will need more time. if the republicans went back to their original 1980's and 1990's taking care of the economy and the citizens, lgbtq people and what means this and that, the country will come back together. democrats need to keep doing their thing but we are just a dysfunctional family. you are supposed to love your family. you guys did a great job on the

patriot act when it was first founded. go back to the patriot act. i'm sure all of the members who founded the patriot act founded a critical -- criminal action. host: the house will take up a bill requiring the federal reserve -- regarding the federal reserve regarding issues of inequities in wealth and income in terms of regulations of the fed promulgates. yesterday the house passed a bill to add further protection to supreme court justices. "the house on tuesday overwhelmingly approve legislation that would extend police protection to the immediate families of supreme court justices, clearing the bill for president biden at a time of rising concern of threats to justices as a potentially momentous abortion rule looms. all of the opposition coming from democrats who tried to

extend the protections to the families of court employees. the action sent the measure to mr. biden." the times rights "the legislation already approved went quickly through the house after an armed man was arrested last week near the maryland home of justice kavanaugh. the man told police he intended to kill the justice because he was angry about a draft of a supreme court opinion suggesting they were planning to roll back abortion rights and concerned judge kavanaugh would vote to weaken gun laws in the wake of the shooting in texas larry in savannah, georgia, on our republican line. caller: i am not opposed to the january 6 investigation if it is done right that i'm getting sick and tired of seeing it day after day. we need to focus on the gas prices and grocery prices. continuing this january 6 is in going to help our problems.

if trump were convicted of a crime and sentenced to 50 years, how would that help the economy? president biden acted too quickly and shutting down the drilling and fracking in america. this cannot be done overnight. he needs to restore the drilling and fracking and we will see prices reducing immediately. host: there is more ahead in the program. we will be joined by ene news reporter jennifer? . -- jennifer? -- about the severe conditions out west and water shortages in the u.s. as well. >> book tv, every sunday on c-span two features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. at 11:55 eastern, lisa miller,

author of "take up space: the unprecedented aoc," with what brought her into politics and what impact she is having on congress. 10:00 p.m. eastern on afterwords, author of "rethinking sex," offers her thoughts on consensual sex and thoughts in the 20th century. watch book tv every sunday on c-span2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at book tv.org. >> now available at the c-span shop, a 20 congressional directory. go there today to order the directory. it is your guide to the federal government with contact information for every member of congress including bios and committee assignments, contact

information for state lawmakers and the biden cabinet. shop at c-span.org or scan on your smartphone. >> there are a lot of places to get political information but only at c-span do you get it straight from the source. no matter where you are from or where you stand on the issues, c-span is america's network. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. if it happens here or here or here or anywhere that matters, america is watching on c-span. powered by cable. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are joined by jennifer with e&e news to talk about the

severe drought and water shortage conditions happening particularly in the u.s. but elsewhere in the united states as well. good morning. guest: thanks for having me. host: on the articles we are reading from you, "u.s. drought worst in a millennium and it could get worse." how do scientists judge the drought over a time like this? what measures did they use? guest: great question. some of the surveys we've seen and the last couple of months take a look at a few things, preserved ancient tree rings. they use those to figure out what precipitation was like, what the water in a basin region was like, and we first saw a steady amount that the 2022 drought we are in is the worst in 1200 years.

because of this additional survey from the bureau of reclamation, they looked at things like collection from bogs and lakes and they determined there had been a worse period around 280. in -- 200 a.d. water levels are low but they have been worse which might help water managers know if it can get worse. host: tell us, the factors that are driving this historic mega drought in the west. guest: one of those things is a writ of case and -- arid ification. that means we are not in a drought but drying things out permanently, less rain, less snow pack which produces the runoff in the west which is how

reservoirs get filled. host: the u.s. drought monitor map is ongoing showing where the u.s. drought is. this map released as of june 9, 2022 and for our radio listeners, things pretty much east of iowa into the planes -- plains and mountain west, things are looking severe. where does this compare to from a year ago? guest: the drought has been pretty persistent for about 22 years. things have been getting not worse but there is a weather pattern called la niña and one of the things it does is create warmer temperatures and less precipitation. that's one reason we will not see any relief from this drought in the next few months. host: there was a hearing on capitol hill among the hearings

they have done recently, about the drought in the u.s. west. what can lawmakers do at this point on a federal level to address the drought conditions in the west? guest: this is a great question. there were a lot of ideas thrown around yesterday and there are things that sort of go from the fantastic to the practical. the fantastic end of things, these questions are always around about couldn't we just build a pipeline for water around the country? and there are other ideas, things like going and trying to do what nevada has been good at, california to some extent as well as colorado, and people to take outdoor landscaping that is not appropriate, so bluegrass lawns are super thirsty and can be replaced by more arid plants

that don't require as much water. with all of that in mind, the bureau of reclamation has to sit down over the next few months with -- over the colorado basin, including seven states and mexico. that agency has to sit down and figure out how to cut the band, where it can pull back water without impacting one of those seven states more than another. that's something that's going to be really tough to do because as the reclamation commissioner mentioned, they are going to have to find a way to cut 2 million to 4 million acre field of water. which is a lot if you consider the current estimate that the colorado river basin has maybe 11 million acre fields of floods. host: jennifer is a reporter with e&e news talking about severe drought and water

shortage conditions in the u.s. west. for those of you in the eastern and central time zones, (202) 748-8000. in the west and pacific, (202) 748-8001. you talk about states encouraging people to end their grass lawn escaping or cutback. -- lawn escaping. -- scaping. is there a threat for freshwater? guest: this is an interesting question and one that a lot of water agencies address any time there have been these questions of drought. last year was the first cut from the colorado river basin. let me back up. there is a drought response agreement in place currently among the seven states that use the colorado river. last year for the first time,

they put in place a cut. what that means is states around the lower end of the river which have the most junior water rights, took about a 512,000 acre foot cut. so when that happened, the impacts don't go to homeowners. it is not suddenly you turn on the tap and there is no water. instead, it can impact things like in arizona, they do some water banking to try to save some of the water by putting it underground for storage. some of that gets cut and the next goes to agricultural users, being a big use of water. everyone likes lettuce in the winter and it comes from arizona and california. it doesn't hit municipal users in the way that you think it

does even when we talk about conservation, things like getting rid of bluegrass, installing more efficient dishwashers and faucets. all that being said, water authorities, it is the first thing they have to address, will these cuts impact me in my home and the answer is no. host: asking about the agricultural side and the experience of india act, there is a story in "the new york times" floods and heat waves jolt india's food supply. "for india and other south asian countries home to hundreds of millions of the most vulnerable, a seemingly bottomless well of problems has only deepened as the region bags on the front line. global warming is no longer a disk -- distant prospect that they can look away from. the increase e -- increasing

volatility -- severe economic damage countries already straining to increase growth and development, and move past the pandemic to lives and livelihood of with the experience in india on the threat to their agricultural system, is the u.s. facing any threat because of the water shortage to our agriculture industry? guest: that's one of the worries down the line and something that senator joe manchin from west virginia who of course as we mentioned yesterday, doesn't deal with drought and his state, he is the chair of the energy channel so he voiced his worries about what can happen to drought and the impact in the west can ripple across the country. that could mean higher food prices if agriculture has to use

more expensive means to atwater, if they cut back on what they are able to produce. there is the ability it could ripple out and hit the grocery store. host: round hill, virginia -- excuse me, maine, pam is calling. caller: thank you very much. i appreciate you all. i just muted my tv. iq for doing this. it is not -- thank you for doing this. it is not only la niña, it is the climate change event that is truly happening. in 1999, i led the first climate conference in maine whether or not of the experts knew whether it would happen. it is now 20 and it is in fact happening. -- 2022 and it is in fact happening. we have to investigate every single issue, proposed action in

light of how we can adapt, mitigate to this climate change crisis. i certainly so appreciate washington journal and your ability to have all five to listen to. host: it is not just a western issue. the u.s. drought monitor shows in maine, that normally -- abnormally dry conditions for what looks to be one third of the state. guest: yeah, absolutely. drought can impact any state in the nation. the impacts are different here in the west. we do tend to see larger wildfires which can be an issue and that can be sort of a compounding issue. you can see large wildfires in the west because of climate change and increasing temperatures. wildfires can cause burn scars.

they can damage the soil so when we get precipitation it is not going into the ground. it can create floods and mudslides and other things. of course, not the wildfires themselves but one of the examples of the drought, we can still have flooding damage. what is going on at yellowstone national park, which had to close this week in the wake of record flooding. host: mike in round hill, virginia. caller: hello, everyone. thank you for this important conversation. it is timely but it has been timely for a really long time. i've got a lot of my mind so i think i'm going to narrow it down to one thing. is there anything being looked at in relation to desalination of ocean water? is it possible -- somebody

mentioned doing a pipeline across from east coast to west coast to transport freshwater but i don't know what the process is for desalination. could not be something that could be used in this part of the country? i will take my reply offline. guest: i will jump in and answer if that's ok. it is a good question and desalination is actually something discussed in the senate yesterday. more than that, congress actually gave in the bipartisan infrastructure law that passed last year, congress gave about $8 million to reclamation to address a number of different things including the western drought as well as maintenance issues on dams and reservoirs. more importantly there is a chunk of money that goes to desalination research.

one of the problems that was raised yesterday and it has always been one of the challenges is that it can be very expensive. so even though you have places on the coast, particularly california that could use it, and i hope these numbers aren't wrong but i want to say something like $2000 per acre foot, a high price for desalination. i'm sure if i've gotten that wrong somebody is already typing it in my email so maybe i will rollback the exact number. that has been one of the longer-term issues with trying to use desalination in order to answer the drought. host: we will hear next from pasadena, california, darrell, good morning. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. i want to encourage the last callers thought process. i have been in california since 1968 and we've been having water problems that long.

we should have been building desal plants all along the coast as far as i'm concerned. it is expensive, but we still aren't doing anything. also, i like the idea of maybe bringing excess of water from the northwest or the south or wherever they are having flooding problems towards california and plugged into the water system here. also, as far as forests, it is mismanagement by the forest service and the california government that are causing more wildfires than anything since they are not cutting trees that are invaded by bugs or beetles. i would like to hear your thoughts on that because we are saving the redwood forest but destroying it by not cutting the

trees that are dead. and proper management of the forest. host: jennifer? guest: you brought up a number of issues there. i don't actually cover forest management. i have a fantastic colleague who covers the forest service. in terms of california water, california is a fascinating place for water policy. and actually, if you haven't, my editor -- the gold standard would be to pick up cadillac desert for a read to learn all about southern california's water system and how it came to be. if you've got a few more hours i recommend watching the pbs version which you can definitely find. host: what do you hear from

people in the west, particularly those who get their water from the colorado system who see lake mead dropping and lake powell dropping as they -- as the drought persists? do you sense a real concern from your average everyday people who lived there about their water supply? guest: i don't know there's a concern yet among your average municipal user and it should be something folks are paying attention to because cuts are coming and things could get -- things could definitely get worse in the years ahead where folks will feel the impacts at some point. that said, water managers, irrigation managers, so this is municipal, county, state, federal level, those folks are well aware of the challenges they face and they are definitely digging in and trying to figure out how best they can

address this going forward knowing that the colorado river basin in particular is shrinking and it serves some 40 million people so it is not something you can shrug off saying, well, if you install a couple of efficient faucets that will take care of it. i mentioned the drought agreement. and then there is also the merger operating -- larger operating agreement for the river which is coming to an expiration at the end of 2025 and will need to be redrafted. that is one place we can expect to see some major changes. host: at the senate energy and natural resources committee yesterday, senator mark kelly talked about his state's use of the colorado river. [video clip] senator kelly: arizona has

junior water rights so if our state absorbed this 2 million to 4 million acre-feet loss it would wipe out water deliveries to cities, tribes, and farms in phoenix and tucson. this is certainly not in the public interest given the natural role in ag, strategic minerals, and manufacturing. you mentioned that reclamation is working with basin states to develop consensus agreement to conserve water in lake mead and lake powell by august. i want to make sure i understand your testimony. if basin states cannot make an agreement, is the department prepared to take actions to impose restrictions on other states without regard to river priority? >> thank you for that question, senator. yes, we will protect the system

but we are not at that point yet so let's get to the table and figure this out by august. senator kelly: when do you anticipate you might get to that point? >> in the august 24 month study, usually when we determine where our operations studies -- august 16 is when we had the first tier one shortage announcement last year. that's what we are working towards. host: explain for folks in arizona and the basin states what just transpired in that conversation between mark kelly and the commissioner. guest: there is an agreement among the southern states -- seven states that use the colorado river and included there are priorities for the water. senator kelly mentioned arizona has a junior water right. it is exactly what it sounds

like. they have lower priority than other states in the basin. the colorado river basin is divided into an upper and lower section. your lower section includes california, arizona, and nevada. the upper section are your remaining four states, utah, wyoming, colorado, and new mexico. when there are cuts to the river under the drought agreement and they label them as tears -- tiers tied back to the level of lake mead. as the levels drop, tier reduction can be put in place. last year they mentioned they had their tier one reduction when arizona lost about half million acre-feet, 512,000. now a tier two reduction if that gets rolled out which as she said is when they do the typical projection and make decisions, that would be another 80,000

acre-feet. it is possible, some observers think reclamation could jump ahead and put into place the tier three cuts that arizona, california, and nevada agreed to and that would be an even larger portion of arizona's water. it is unlikely that the federal government would come back and say, we are going to cut arizona's entire allocation of water. that just doesn't seem like something that would happen. that said, arizona has also been preparing for these cuts for a long time. the state had something really interesting called the arizona water bank, exactly what it sounds like. arizona realized in the 1990's it wasn't using its full allocation of the water. it was worried california might go to court to say arizona is not using all its water, we should have it. to prevent that from happening, arizona set up a system where

different users of the river could say, i will agree to take my water, put it into a recharge basin and i will explain that a second, and they basically get a long-term credit that says, you put x amount of water into the system, we will take a little out for the aquifer but otherwise somewhere down the road we will figure out how to get it back to you. arizona has been doing that for about 20 years. they've put away something like a year and a half worth of their total allocation. that doesn't just mean that arizona has a year and a half of water any time it wants to pass the bank. have to stretch that out and make it as long as possible. if you could give me another second and get nerdy and explain, the banking or recharge process can be done different ways but a big one is to basically take colorado river

water, put it into these large pools, think of a football field full of water, and that water filters down through sand and gravel back into aquifers. the state is able to monitor and aquifer, see what level they are at. it effectively becomes groundwater that can be tapped at a later point in time when users need that water. host: let's hear from virginia -- we will get to you in a minute. frank in jacksonville, florida. caller: good morning. i was just thinking you say you got the best natural gas in the country. natural gas desalination, gas is natural gas, trying to desalinate plants after the.

california and states on that side can investigate -- invest in it with water on the sea. if those states invest in that they have their own water and don't have to worry about the water from the river. host: frank, is there a specific question? guest: yes. i'm saying we don't use natural gas for d's -- caller: yes. i'm saying we don't use natural gas for desalination? it is not working what we are doing so we have to think of a different way. host: any thoughts on that? guest: unfortunately, that's not a question i feel comfortable asking. i can say in terms of natural gas and drought, this was an issue raised yesterday. it wasn't about the desalination plants and i don't know exactly what energy sources these function off of but as a senator

said there are concerns the drought could impact hydraulic fracturing which can impact the process to bring natural gas up from the ground. host: virginia is next, riverside, california. caller: i am surprised since you are in a western state that you didn't know about the desalination plant in redondo and her most of beach that was closed -- perm osa -- hermosa beach that was closed. they are just too expensive and don't give the volume you need. they are way too expensive. i'm surprised the fella from pasadena wasn't aware of it locally. i wanted to know if you have any information and had you been aware of it. guest: i am aware that that

facility had closed. i'm not sure that i can give you a lot more than that. it is not an issue i have written on at this point although i can tell you it is on my to do list. host: the issue of the record drought, is this something a serious winter season of serious snowpack in the mountains in the west and steady rain falls and regular rainfalls could solve in a season? guest: unfortunately it is no longer a pray for rain kind of situation. that had been for years sort of a thought, one good season of snowpack, one good wet season. unfortunately, that's not going to be enough to turn things around. you have to have essentially years of that shift back in weather to have a wetter colorado basin and others as well. it has been very heavily focused

on the colorado basin, a big issue obviously on how many folks it serves, but there are -- there are plenty of others in the west. the rio grande is struggling with drought quite a bit. i wonder if i could have a moment, one of the things with drought that is hard for a lot of people to picture, we talk in acre-feet about water and cubic feet so in acre foot of water, a great way to picture it is a football field filled up to a depth of one foot. it is exactly what it sounds like, one acre of land filled 21 foot. -- filled to one foot. it would be equal to 326,000 gallons of water. you break this down further and get into the bite sized that we can get our heads around, according to the epa and average

family will use about 300 gallons of water. that includes your tap, outdoor watering, everything come in a day. sorry, i've got that wrong. not in a day. anyway, if you think about the number of acre-feet of water getting into the millions, it gives you a better sense of this isn't just a little bit of conservation. these are going to be some big cuts coming down the line. host: how has the expansion in phoenix and other western cities taxed the already stressed water and infrastructure in those areas? guest: it is really interesting. nevada is probably the leader and i know that the southern nevada water district loves to tout the statistic. over the last decade they have gained about 800,000 people in their population.

they have managed to reduce their water usage by 25% or 26%. they have done that through things like their program to get rid of -- turf, any grass that doesn't have a purpose. think of grass in medians or around buildings and getting that replaced with what is more appropriate for the desert. it depends. we like to think that all of this water is going to big metropolitan areas but actually the major user of water is agriculture. more than that, it is for growing all kinds of grass, a lot of which goes to forage for cattle and other animals. host: rich in pensacola, florida, go ahead. caller: i'd like to talk a little bit about the invasive plants that were planted along the colorado river back in the day.

i think it was called a tamarisk. i may be pronouncing that wrong. they are trying to burn it off the banks. several invasive plants are sucking the colorado and others dry. any comments? guest: it is a good question, definitely an issue. there are a number of invasive species that of course are taking more water that should be addressed. i don't have any specifics on the programs doing that. host: one of several pieces that are guest has written, headlined from a may article in e&e news, as colorado river shrinks, pain to spread. colorado, gary. caller: good morning, america, thanks for taking my call. i'm calling from california.

the bureau of reclamation has stolen entire rivers from us for many years and ruined the ecosystem. little is said about it. the bureau of reclamation has done a terrible job of managing. they should be growing rice in the central valley, a water intensive crop. once the water gets into the california aqueduct, it goes right down where they play with their slip and slides and water their golf courses and wash their cars. and there's been little concern about it over the years until this moment when they are almost ready to run dry. as far as we are concerned in the north, they should start drinking toilet water. thank you. host: explain the bureau of reclamation. what is their job? guest: a well-timed question,

the bureau of reclamation, it's 120th anniversary on friday. it is under the interior department and basically the way a lot of us think of it is to build dams and create hydropower. so the agency started back in the early 1900s with this idea that there was a need to literally reclaim the area lands of the west. this was homesteading, getting people to work the land, encouraging people to take their 160 acres and farm. the agency came into its own in the 1930's with the construction of the hoover dam and post-world war ii, it was in its heyday. at that point, reclamation was building dams and irrigation

across the west. it was building hydropower which is a big issue for the drought. major hydropower facilities where if the reservoir drops too low, it is possible they could shut down. the reclamation still around, still operating. a large number. i want to say they've got around 300 reservoirs and dams they operate. it is sort of their job to make sure the water flows, make sure they are releasing the right amount of water and also for filling contracts they have with users. in california, for example, who has contracts to receive xm out of water and that might go to municipalities, might go to agriculture. host: a visual look at the growth of the drought in the west, west of the mississippi in "usa today."

drought conditions 2021 versus 2022, hot and dry across the southwest in addition to california, colorado, and utah, expanded to utah and texas. this is last year and this is this year. according to "usa today" from their dater from -- data from accuweather and the national drought monitor. caller: i just had a quick question for jennifer. you said there was 200 a.d. when the last drop occurred. how long did that last? i see projections that the current drought could last decades more. how do you see that impacting the environment, people's lives, and agriculture if this extreme drought goes on for another 20, 30 years? guest: i would be happy to

address that. that study that reclamation put out last week that found that the colorado river was smaller than 200, they looked at 20 year periods. the current year is 22 years long so that period they found in 200 a.d. had a smaller river flow then currently. host: we talked about how municipalities and states are responding in terms of saving water. arizona you pointed out, also las vegas. how about farmers in the west? what new tactics and practices are they having to adapt? guest: definitely, agriculture has long had to address how it does irrigation, how to figure

out how to be more efficient with the water it does have. one of the big debates going forward will be this question of essentially growing grass and not just lawn grass but forage grass used for cattle and other animals. this was the point of contention in the senate hearing, whether or not there should be some sort of effort to cut back on this forage and our representative for agriculture and farmers, says this has long been an argument and of course farmers shouldn't be restricted in terms of what they are growing or be told how to operate their farms. it is going to be a big debate going forward. host: let's hear from javier in reston, virginia. caller: hello. i'm originally from ecuador and i visit every year.

in my lifetime, i have watched mountains lose their entire glacier so that's my personal experience with watching climate change and temperatures. i am very blessed with jen's expertise and it comforts me to know that people like her work in our government. my comment is just the role of government in the near future will be simply to try to keep the peace and convince people of what priorities to shift water use to. via legislation. because reversing the trend we are in with the climate and freshwater availability is impossible. host: thanks for the call. guest: i just want to say, i don't work for the federal government. i work for e&e news, a great publication for all that

national resources policy you want to follow in my colleagues put out fantastic coverage. host: clio, michigan, laura up next. caller: hello. is there any legislation or any part of our government and that jennifer granholm used to be michigan's governor, that michigan is surrounded by freshwater. in the years, there has been talk of a pipeline coming from the great lakes to the west. to take our freshwater. for canada, it has never gone through. do you have any information on that? host: jennifer? guest: happy to address it and of course, governor granholm,

now secretary granholm with the energy department, but reclamation and water issues follow to the interior department. there is not any legislation i'm aware of currently that would address such a pipeline. legislation that we see has to do more with sort of addressing the issues of the drought. again, figuring out conservation as well as figuring out, there is a set of bills in the new mexico delegation called the aqua bus, which is a fun moniker. those bills include coming up with a national strategy on drought and making better use of data to track and see what the impacts are and what we need to -- where we need to go. host: karen calling from zachary, louisiana. caller: thanks for taking my call. i'm calling, i just wondered if

the united states has talked with israel. i just got back from a trip and they are making great strides in d cell night's inc. the mediterranean -- desalinizing the mediterranean. i am wondering if the u.s. has consulted with them. guest: that's a topic that comes up a lot when you talk about desalinization. the bureau of reclamation does have an international aspect, not only do they advise other countries in terms of building projects and dams but they have outreach to go the other way. i'm not aware of any congressional delegations that have made that effort or any official channels that are currently in the works. host: we talked about arizona,

california, new mexico, you are joining us from denver. what's the drought situation like? guest: greetings from denver. it is a wonderful place. colorado of course is the headwaters for the colorado river. interestingly enough, there is actually a number of construction projects going on now to expand reservoirs and build new reservoirs to capture some of the colorado river water. there is debate over this. there are conservationists who see this idea of building more storage ridiculous. you can't tap more water from a river system that doesn't have it. on the other hand, there are water managers both locally and for the state who say these new reservoirs are needed to help us patrol the flow of the shrinking river. with climate change there are

things like earlier snowmelt, stronger storm systems. there are some questions about whether sitting at the continental divide which colorado does, are the weather patters for drought the same as they are -- patterns for drought the same way as they are downriver? hopefully some of these projects will be able to essentially make better use of some of that water, snowmelt as it comes in. host: i have to let you go. u.s. house is coming in. we greatly appreciate you coming on. she covers water issues, thank you so much. guest: thanks for having me. host: that's it for "washington journal." signed, nancy pelosi, speaker of the house of representatives. the speaker pro tempore: pursuant to the order of the house of january 10, 2022 the chair will now recognize members from lists submitted by the majority and minority leaders