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host: on the articles we are reading from you, "u.s. drought worst in a millennium and it could get worse." how do scientists judge the drought over a time like this? what measures did they use? guest: great question. some of the surveys we've seen and the last couple of months take a look at a few things, preserved ancient tree rings. they use those to figure out what precipitation was like, what the water in a basin region was like, and we first saw a steady amount that the 2022 drought we are in is the worst in 1200 years. because of this additional survey from the bureau of reclamation, they looked at things like collection from bogs and lakes and they determined there had been a worse period

around 280. in -- 200 a.d. water levels are low but they have been worse which might help water managers know if it can get worse. host: tell us, the factors that are driving this historic mega drought in the west. guest: one of those things is a writ of case and -- arid ification. that means we are not in a drought but drying things out permanently, less rain, less snow pack which produces the runoff in the west which is how reservoirs get filled. host: the u.s. drought monitor map is ongoing showing where the u.s. drought is. this map released as of june 9,

2022 and for our radio listeners, things pretty much east of iowa into the planes -- plains and mountain west, things are looking severe. where does this compare to from a year ago? guest: the drought has been pretty persistent for about 22 years. things have been getting not worse but there is a weather pattern called la niña and one of the things it does is create warmer temperatures and less precipitation. that's one reason we will not see any relief from this drought in the next few months. host: there was a hearing on capitol hill among the hearings they have done recently, about the drought in the u.s. west. what can lawmakers do at this point on a federal level to address the drought conditions in the west? guest: this is a great question.

there were a lot of ideas thrown around yesterday and there are things that sort of go from the fantastic to the practical. the fantastic end of things, these questions are always around about couldn't we just build a pipeline for water around the country? and there are other ideas, things like going and trying to do what nevada has been good at, california to some extent as well as colorado, and people to take outdoor landscaping that is not appropriate, so bluegrass lawns are super thirsty and can be replaced by more arid plants that don't require as much water. with all of that in mind, the bureau of reclamation has to sit down over the next few months with -- over the colorado basin,

including seven states and mexico. that agency has to sit down and figure out how to cut the band, where it can pull back water without impacting one of those seven states more than another. that's something that's going to be really tough to do because as the reclamation commissioner mentioned, they are going to have to find a way to cut 2 million to 4 million acre field of water. which is a lot if you consider the current estimate that the colorado river basin has maybe 11 million acre fields of floods. host: jennifer is a reporter with e&e news talking about severe drought and water shortage conditions in the u.s. west. for those of you in the eastern and central time zones, (202) 748-8000. in the west and pacific, (202)

748-8001. you talk about states encouraging people to end their grass lawn escaping or cutback. -- lawn escaping. -- scaping. is there a threat for freshwater? guest: this is an interesting question and one that a lot of water agencies address any time there have been these questions of drought. last year was the first cut from the colorado river basin. let me back up. there is a drought response agreement in place currently among the seven states that use the colorado river. last year for the first time, they put in place a cut. what that means is states around the lower end of the river which have the most junior water

rights, took about a 512,000 acre foot cut. so when that happened, the impacts don't go to homeowners. it is not suddenly you turn on the tap and there is no water. instead, it can impact things like in arizona, they do some water banking to try to save some of the water by putting it underground for storage. some of that gets cut and the next goes to agricultural users, being a big use of water. everyone likes lettuce in the winter and it comes from arizona and california. it doesn't hit municipal users in the way that you think it does even when we talk about conservation, things like getting rid of bluegrass, installing more efficient dishwashers and faucets. all that being said, water

authorities, it is the first thing they have to address, will these cuts impact me in my home and the answer is no. host: asking about the agricultural side and the experience of india act, there is a story in "the new york times" floods and heat waves jolt india's food supply. "for india and other south asian countries home to hundreds of millions of the most vulnerable, a seemingly bottomless well of problems has only deepened as the region bags on the front line. global warming is no longer a disk -- distant prospect that they can look away from. the increase e -- increasing volatility -- severe economic damage countries already straining to increase growth and development, and move past the pandemic to lives and livelihood

of with the experience in india on the threat to their agricultural system, is the u.s. facing any threat because of the water shortage to our agriculture industry? guest: that's one of the worries down the line and something that senator joe manchin from west virginia who of course as we mentioned yesterday, doesn't deal with drought and his state, he is the chair of the energy channel so he voiced his worries about what can happen to drought and the impact in the west can ripple across the country. that could mean higher food prices if agriculture has to use more expensive means to atwater, if they cut back on what they are able to produce. there is the ability it could ripple out and hit the grocery store. host: round hill, virginia --

excuse me, maine, pam is calling. caller: thank you very much. i appreciate you all. i just muted my tv. iq for doing this. it is not -- thank you for doing this. it is not only la niña, it is the climate change event that is truly happening. in 1999, i led the first climate conference in maine whether or not of the experts knew whether it would happen. it is now 20 and it is in fact happening. -- 2022 and it is in fact happening. we have to investigate every single issue, proposed action in light of how we can adapt, mitigate to this climate change crisis. i certainly so appreciate washington journal and your ability to have all five to

listen to. host: it is not just a western issue. the u.s. drought monitor shows in maine, that normally -- abnormally dry conditions for what looks to be one third of the state. guest: yeah, absolutely. drought can impact any state in the nation. the impacts are different here in the west. we do tend to see larger wildfires which can be an issue and that can be sort of a compounding issue. you can see large wildfires in the west because of climate change and increasing temperatures. wildfires can cause burn scars. they can damage the soil so when we get precipitation it is not going into the ground. it can create floods and mudslides and other things.

of course, not the wildfires themselves but one of the examples of the drought, we can still have flooding damage. what is going on at yellowstone national park, which had to close this week in the wake of record flooding. host: mike in round hill, virginia. caller: hello, everyone. thank you for this important conversation. it is timely but it has been timely for a really long time. i've got a lot of my mind so i think i'm going to narrow it down to one thing. is there anything being looked at in relation to desalination of ocean water? is it possible -- somebody mentioned doing a pipeline across from east coast to west coast to transport freshwater but i don't know what the process is for desalination. could not be something that

could be used in this part of the country? i will take my reply offline. guest: i will jump in and answer if that's ok. it is a good question and desalination is actually something discussed in the senate yesterday. more than that, congress actually gave in the bipartisan infrastructure law that passed last year, congress gave about $8 million to reclamation to address a number of different things including the western drought as well as maintenance issues on dams and reservoirs. more importantly there is a chunk of money that goes to desalination research. one of the problems that was raised yesterday and it has always been one of the challenges is that it can be very expensive. so even though you have places on the coast, particularly california that could use it,

and i hope these numbers aren't wrong but i want to say something like $2000 per acre foot, a high price for desalination. i'm sure if i've gotten that wrong somebody is already typing it in my email so maybe i will rollback the exact number. that has been one of the longer-term issues with trying to use desalination in order to answer the drought. host: we will hear next from pasadena, california, darrell, good morning. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. i want to encourage the last callers thought process. i have been in california since 1968 and we've been having water problems that long. we should have been building desal plants all along the coast as far as i'm concerned. it is expensive, but we still

aren't doing anything. also, i like the idea of maybe bringing excess of water from the northwest or the south or wherever they are having flooding problems towards california and plugged into the water system here. also, as far as forests, it is mismanagement by the forest service and the california government that are causing more wildfires than anything since they are not cutting trees that are invaded by bugs or beetles. i would like to hear your thoughts on that because we are saving the redwood forest but destroying it by not cutting the trees that are dead. and proper management of the forest. host: jennifer? guest: you brought up a number of issues there.

i don't actually cover forest management. i have a fantastic colleague who covers the forest service. in terms of california water, california is a fascinating place for water policy. and actually, if you haven't, my editor -- the gold standard would be to pick up cadillac desert for a read to learn all about southern california's water system and how it came to be. if you've got a few more hours i recommend watching the pbs version which you can definitely find. host: what do you hear from people in the west, particularly those who get their water from the colorado system who see lake mead dropping and lake powell dropping as they -- as the drought persists? do you sense a real concern from

your average everyday people who lived there about their water supply? guest: i don't know there's a concern yet among your average municipal user and it should be something folks are paying attention to because cuts are coming and things could get -- things could definitely get worse in the years ahead where folks will feel the impacts at some point. that said, water managers, irrigation managers, so this is municipal, county, state, federal level, those folks are well aware of the challenges they face and they are definitely digging in and trying to figure out how best they can address this going forward knowing that the colorado river basin in particular is shrinking and it serves some 40 million people so it is not something you can shrug off saying, well,

if you install a couple of efficient faucets that will take care of it. i mentioned the drought agreement. and then there is also the merger operating -- larger operating agreement for the river which is coming to an expiration at the end of 2025 and will need to be redrafted. that is one place we can expect to see some major changes. host: at the senate energy and natural resources committee yesterday, senator mark kelly talked about his state's use of the colorado river. [video clip] senator kelly: arizona has junior water rights so if our state absorbed this 2 million to 4 million acre-feet loss it would wipe out water deliveries to cities, tribes, and farms in

phoenix and tucson. this is certainly not in the public interest given the natural role in ag, strategic minerals, and manufacturing. you mentioned that reclamation is working with basin states to develop consensus agreement to conserve water in lake mead and lake powell by august. i want to make sure i understand your testimony. if basin states cannot make an agreement, is the department prepared to take actions to impose restrictions on other states without regard to river priority? >> thank you for that question, senator. yes, we will protect the system but we are not at that point yet so let's get to the table and figure this out by august. senator kelly: when do you anticipate you might get to that point? >> in the august 24 month study,

usually when we determine where our operations studies -- august 16 is when we had the first tier one shortage announcement last year. that's what we are working towards. host: explain for folks in arizona and the basin states what just transpired in that conversation between mark kelly and the commissioner. guest: there is an agreement among the southern states -- seven states that use the colorado river and included there are priorities for the water. senator kelly mentioned arizona has a junior water right. it is exactly what it sounds like. they have lower priority than other states in the basin. the colorado river basin is divided into an upper and lower section. your lower section includes california, arizona, and nevada.

the upper section are your remaining four states, utah, wyoming, colorado, and new mexico. when there are cuts to the river under the drought agreement and they label them as tears -- tiers tied back to the level of lake mead. as the levels drop, tier reduction can be put in place. last year they mentioned they had their tier one reduction when arizona lost about half million acre-feet, 512,000. now a tier two reduction if that gets rolled out which as she said is when they do the typical projection and make decisions, that would be another 80,000 acre-feet. it is possible, some observers think reclamation could jump ahead and put into place the tier three cuts that arizona, california, and nevada agreed to

and that would be an even larger portion of arizona's water. it is unlikely that the federal government would come back and say, we are going to cut arizona's entire allocation of water. that just doesn't seem like something that would happen. that said, arizona has also been preparing for these cuts for a long time. the state had something really interesting called the arizona water bank, exactly what it sounds like. arizona realized in the 1990's it wasn't using its full allocation of the water. it was worried california might go to court to say arizona is not using all its water, we should have it. to prevent that from happening, arizona set up a system where different users of the river could say, i will agree to take my water, put it into a recharge basin and i will explain that a

second, and they basically get a long-term credit that says, you put x amount of water into the system, we will take a little out for the aquifer but otherwise somewhere down the road we will figure out how to get it back to you. arizona has been doing that for about 20 years. they've put away something like a year and a half worth of their total allocation. that doesn't just mean that arizona has a year and a half of water any time it wants to pass the bank. have to stretch that out and make it as long as possible. if you could give me another second and get nerdy and explain, the banking or recharge process can be done different ways but a big one is to basically take colorado river water, put it into these large pools, think of a football field full of water, and that water filters down through sand and

gravel back into aquifers. the state is able to monitor and aquifer, see what level they are at. it effectively becomes groundwater that can be tapped at a later point in time when users need that water. host: let's hear from virginia -- we will get to you in a minute. frank in jacksonville, florida. caller: good morning. i was just thinking you say you got the best natural gas in the country. natural gas desalination, gas is natural gas, trying to desalinate plants after the. california and states on that side can investigate -- invest in it with water on the sea. if those states invest in that they have their own water and don't have to worry about the

water from the river. host: frank, is there a specific question? guest: yes. i'm saying we don't use natural gas for d's -- caller: yes. i'm saying we don't use natural gas for desalination? it is not working what we are doing so we have to think of a different way. host: any thoughts on that? guest: unfortunately, that's not a question i feel comfortable asking. i can say in terms of natural gas and drought, this was an issue raised yesterday. it wasn't about the desalination plants and i don't know exactly what energy sources these function off of but as a senator said there are concerns the drought could impact hydraulic fracturing which can impact the process to bring natural gas up

from the ground. host: virginia is next, riverside, california. caller: i am surprised since you are in a western state that you didn't know about the desalination plant in redondo and her most of beach that was closed -- perm osa -- hermosa beach that was closed. they are just too expensive and don't give the volume you need. they are way too expensive. i'm surprised the fella from pasadena wasn't aware of it locally. i wanted to know if you have any information and had you been aware of it. guest: i am aware that that facility had closed. i'm not sure that i can give you a lot more than that. it is not an issue i have written on at this point although i can tell you it is on my to do list. host: the issue of the record drought, is this something a

serious winter season of serious snowpack in the mountains in the west and steady rain falls and regular rainfalls could solve in a season? guest: unfortunately it is no longer a pray for rain kind of situation. that had been for years sort of a thought, one good season of snowpack, one good wet season. unfortunately, that's not going to be enough to turn things around. you have to have essentially years of that shift back in weather to have a wetter colorado basin and others as well. it has been very heavily focused on the colorado basin, a big issue obviously on how many folks it serves, but there are -- there are plenty of others in the west. the rio grande is struggling with drought quite a bit. i wonder if i could have a

moment, one of the things with drought that is hard for a lot of people to picture, we talk in acre-feet about water and cubic feet so in acre foot of water, a great way to picture it is a football field filled up to a depth of one foot. it is exactly what it sounds like, one acre of land filled 21 foot. -- filled to one foot. it would be equal to 326,000 gallons of water. you break this down further and get into the bite sized that we can get our heads around, according to the epa and average family will use about 300 gallons of water. that includes your tap, outdoor watering, everything come in a day. sorry, i've got that wrong. not in a day.

anyway, if you think about the number of acre-feet of water getting into the millions, it gives you a better sense of this isn't just a little bit of conservation. these are going to be some big cuts coming down the line. host: how has the expansion in phoenix and other western cities taxed the already stressed water and infrastructure in those areas? guest: it is really interesting. nevada is probably the leader and i know that the southern nevada water district loves to tout the statistic. over the last decade they have gained about 800,000 people in their population. they have managed to reduce their water usage by 25% or 26%. they have done that through things like their program to get rid of -- turf, any grass that

doesn't have a purpose. think of grass in medians or around buildings and getting that replaced with what is more appropriate for the desert. it depends. we like to think that all of this water is going to big metropolitan areas but actually the major user of water is agriculture. more than that, it is for growing all kinds of grass, a lot of which goes to forage for cattle and other animals. host: rich in pensacola, florida, go ahead. caller: i'd like to talk a little bit about the invasive plants that were planted along the colorado river back in the day. i think it was called a tamarisk. i may be pronouncing that wrong. they are trying to burn it off the banks. several invasive plants are

sucking the colorado and others dry. any comments? guest: it is a good question, definitely an issue. there are a number of invasive species that of course are taking more water that should be addressed. i don't have any specifics on the programs doing that. host: one of several pieces that are guest has written, headlined from a may article in e&e news, as colorado river shrinks, pain to spread. colorado, gary. caller: good morning, america, thanks for taking my call. i'm calling from california. the bureau of reclamation has stolen entire rivers from us for many years and ruined the ecosystem. little is said about it.

the bureau of reclamation has done a terrible job of managing. they should be growing rice in the central valley, a water intensive crop. once the water gets into the california aqueduct, it goes right down where they play with their slip and slides and water their golf courses and wash their cars. and there's been little concern about it over the years until this moment when they are almost ready to run dry. as far as we are concerned in the north, they should start drinking toilet water. thank you. host: explain the bureau of reclamation. what is their job? guest: a well-timed question, the bureau of reclamation, it's 120th anniversary on friday. it is under the interior department and basically the way a lot of us think of it is to build dams and create

hydropower. so the agency started back in the early 1900s with this idea that there was a need to literally reclaim the area lands of the west. this was homesteading, getting people to work the land, encouraging people to take their 160 acres and farm. the agency came into its own in the 1930's with the construction of the hoover dam and post-world war ii, it was in its heyday. at that point, reclamation was building dams and irrigation across the west. it was building hydropower which is a big issue for the drought. major hydropower facilities where if the reservoir drops too low, it is possible they could shut down.

the reclamation still around, still operating. a large number. i want to say they've got around 300 reservoirs and dams they operate. it is sort of their job to make sure the water flows, make sure they are releasing the right amount of water and also for filling contracts they have with users. in california, for example, who has contracts to receive xm out of water and that might go to municipalities, might go to agriculture. host: a visual look at the growth of the drought in the west, west of the mississippi in "usa today." drought conditions 2021 versus 2022, hot and dry across the southwest in addition to california, colorado, and utah, expanded to utah and texas.

this is last year and this is this year. according to "usa today" from their dater from -- data from accuweather and the national drought monitor. caller: i just had a quick question for jennifer. you said there was 200 a.d. when the last drop occurred. how long did that last? i see projections that the current drought could last decades more. how do you see that impacting the environment, people's lives, and agriculture if this extreme drought goes on for another 20, 30 years? guest: i would be happy to address that. that study that reclamation put out last week that found that the colorado river was smaller than 200, they looked at 20 year

periods. the current year is 22 years long so that period they found in 200 a.d. had a smaller river flow then currently. host: we talked about how municipalities and states are responding in terms of saving water. arizona you pointed out, also las vegas. how about farmers in the west? what new tactics and practices are they having to adapt? guest: definitely, agriculture has long had to address how it does irrigation, how to figure out how to be more efficient with the water it does have. one of the big debates going forward will be this question of essentially growing grass and not just lawn grass but forage

grass used for cattle and other animals. this was the point of contention in the senate hearing, whether or not there should be some sort of effort to cut back on this forage and our representative for agriculture and farmers, says this has long been an argument and of course farmers shouldn't be restricted in terms of what they are growing or be told how to operate their farms. it is going to be a big debate going forward. host: let's hear from javier in reston, virginia. caller: hello. i'm originally from ecuador and i visit every year. in my lifetime, i have watched mountains lose their entire glacier so that's my personal experience with watching climate change and temperatures. i am very blessed with jen's

expertise and it comforts me to know that people like her work in our government. my comment is just the role of government in the near future will be simply to try to keep the peace and convince people of what priorities to shift water use to. via legislation. because reversing the trend we are in with the climate and freshwater availability is impossible. host: thanks for the call. guest: i just want to say, i don't work for the federal government. i work for e&e news, a great publication for all that national resources policy you want to follow in my colleagues put out fantastic coverage. host: clio, michigan, laura up next. caller: hello. is there any legislation or any

part of our government and that jennifer granholm used to be michigan's governor, that michigan is surrounded by freshwater. in the years, there has been talk of a pipeline coming from the great lakes to the west. to take our freshwater. for canada, it has never gone through. do you have any information on that? host: jennifer? guest: happy to address it and of course, governor granholm, now secretary granholm with the energy department, but reclamation and water issues follow to the interior department. there is not any legislation i'm

aware of currently that would address such a pipeline. legislation that we see has to do more with sort of addressing the issues of the drought. again, figuring out conservation as well as figuring out, there is a set of bills in the new mexico delegation called the aqua bus, which is a fun moniker. those bills include coming up with a national strategy on drought and making better use of data to track and see what the impacts are and what we need to -- where we need to go. host: karen calling from zachary, louisiana. caller: thanks for taking my call. i'm calling, i just wondered if the united states has talked with israel. i just got back from a trip and they are making great strides in d cell night's inc. the mediterranean -- desalinizing

the mediterranean. i am wondering if the u.s. has consulted with them. guest: that's a topic that comes up a lot when you talk about desalinization. the bureau of reclamation does have an international aspect, not only do they advise other countries in terms of building projects and dams but they have outreach to go the other way. i'm not aware of any congressional delegations that have made that effort or any official channels that are currently in the works. host: we talked about arizona, california, new mexico, you are joining us from denver. what's the drought situation like? guest: greetings from denver. it is a wonderful place. colorado of course is the

headwaters for the colorado river. interestingly enough, there is actually a number of construction projects going on now to expand reservoirs and build new reservoirs to capture some of the colorado river water. there is debate over this. there are conservationists who see this idea of building more storage ridiculous. you can't tap more water from a river system that doesn't have it. on the other hand, there are water managers both locally and for the state who say these new reservoirs are needed to help us patrol the flow of the shrinking river. with climate change there are things like earlier snowmelt, stronger storm systems. there are some questions about whether sitting at the continental divide which colorado does, are the weather patters for drought the same as

they are -- patterns for drought the same way as they are downriver? hopefully some of these projects will be able to essentially make better use of some of that water, snowmelt as it comes in. host: i have to let you go. u.s. house is coming in. we greatly appreciate you coming on. at 8:00 a.m. eastern on lectures in history on the 509 anniversary of the watergate break in, american university professor joseph campbell talks about the 1972 scandal and what he calls the myth of heroic journalism. he argues congress and other federal agencies contributed to the downfall of the nixon presidency, it was not solely

caused by "the washington post" reporting. then at 2:00 p.m. on the presidency, the president and c.e.o. of the l.b.j. foundation takes -- talks about his book "incomparable grace: j.f.k. and the presidency" and his reassessment of the j.f.k. presidency and how j.f.k. grew dealing with domestic and foreign challenges. watch "american history tv" saturday on c-span2. find the full schedule on your program guide or watch online any time at c-span.org/history. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we're funded by these television companies and more, including comcast. >> you think this is just a community cent her no, it's way more than. that comcast is partnering with 1,000 community centers to create wi-fi enabled boosts so

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find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online any time at becometv.org. >> in the united states' expansion west, the civil war and other events in its history, firearms played an important role. sunday night on q&a, former "baltimore sun" reporter john bainbridge jr. talked about firearms inventors coal, smith & wesson, winchester and the role they played in establishing modern gun culture. >> once again we're facing these mass shootings. once again we're seeing the slaughter of innocents. once again there's talk about the second amendment and individual rights in the united states. my book doesn't even mention the second amendment but the notion of the individual freedom and the, i guess, devotion of the early colonists and the early

revolutionists to individual firearms ownership comes through in the book and whatever steps this country takes in its effort to control firearms, a knowledge of the past, knowledge of the early history of a country, and its relationship with firearms, is important. >> john banebridge jr. and his book gun barren, sunday night on c-span's "q&a." you canlisten to "q&a" and all our podcasts on our free c-span now app. >> at least six presidents recorded conversations while in office. hear many of those conversations on c-span new' -- c-span's new podcasts, presidential recordings. >> season focus oses on the president i have so lyndon johnson. you'll hear about the 1964 civil rights act, the 1964 presidential campaign, the march

on selma and the war in vietnam. not everyone knew they were being recorded. >> certainly, johnson's secretaries knew. because they were tasked with transcribing many of those conversations. in fact they were the ones who made sure that the conversations were taped as johnson would cigna to them through an open door between his office and theirs. >> you'll also hear some blunt talk. >> jim. >> yes, sir. >> i want a report of the number of people assigned to kennedy the day he died and the number assigned to me now, if mine are not less i want them less right quick. >> yes, sir. >> if i can't ever go to the bathroom, i won't go. i promise you i won't go anywhere. i'll just stay right behind these black gates. >> find it on the c-span now mobile app or wherever you get your podcasts. >> attorney general merrick garland traveled to buffalo, new