the history of juneteenth and the significance of its recognition as a federal holiday. join the discussion with your phone calls, text messages, and tweets. ♪ ♪ host: good morning on this monday, a federal holiday to mark juneteenth. it felt on a sunday this year. more on that coming up. we begin our first hour with your view of mike pence. you heard last week the january 6 committee outlined the efforts by the former president to persuade the vice president to overturn the 2020 electoral results and his refusal to do so. this morning, your view of the 48 vice president.

republicans dial in at (202) 748-8001. democrats (202) 748-8000. independents (202) 748-8002. you can also send us a text with your first name, city and state at (202) 748-8003. you can send us a tweet. washington times front page this morning, the headlines reads pence praised as hero of the day on january 6. the former vice president saved democracy. here is jamie raskin, a member of the january 6 committee on meet the press. >> is mike pence a hero? >> in a time of scandalous betrayal of oaths of office and crimes being committed all over

the place, somebody who does their job and sticks to the law will stand out as a hero on that day. i think on that day he was a hero for resisting all of the pressure campaigns and the coercive efforts to get him to play along with this continuation of the big lie, this big joke that he can somehow pull off the proceedings himself. it would likely forced everything into the house of representatives for a contingent election where the gop knew they had a majority of state delegations because we vote in a contingent election on the basis of one state one vote. host: that was congressman jamie raskin on meet the press yesterday. on friday, president trump was at the faith and freedom conference in nashville. here is what he had to say about the former vice president after

the committee held their third public hearing the day before. >> one guy got up and said he heard me calling mike pence a wimp. i'm the president of the united states. how many people listened to me? i don't even know who these people are. i never called mike pence a wimp. mike pence had a chance to be great. he had a chance to be historic. just like bill barr and the rest of these week people, i say it sadly because i like him. mike did not have the courage to act. bill barr was afraid of certain things. please don't impeach me.

what's wrong with being impeached twice? i don't want to be impeached. the election was perfect. the democrats sitting back there is no way we are going to impeach this guy. it's terrible. mike was afraid of whatever he was afraid of. as you heard a year and a half ago, mike pence had absolute no choice but to be a human conveyor belt, even if the votes were fraudulent. what happens when you have more votes than you had voters? it doesn't matter. nothing matters. host: that was former president trump from friday's faith and freedom conference in nashville.

this morning, we are asking your view on the former vice president. there are the numbers on your screen. john is in new jersey. caller: good morning. i love mike pence. he got trump the nomination and the election. he brought in the evangelicals. he's a good guy. the only thing i will say, it was clear that the election with the mail-in ballots which was unprecedented in our history, there was a big area for fraud. in the typical cities. trump should have -- he did everything legal in my opinion.

did he go overboard? perhaps. host: what do you think about the role the former vice president played on that day? caller: i don't blame him. i don't lame part. -- blame part. you could not stop an from going. we are better off losing the election and then coming back. that's the way our democracy should work did you don't always win. you don't always lose. that's why we are still here. host: who should run in 2024 on the republican ticket? caller: that's a good question. i think trump would win. he is divisive. i like desantis. he is representative of what's happening in the country. host: what about the former

indiana governor, mike pence? caller: he is great guy. he has no charisma. he will not bring in enough people. he's a really great guy. i like him. i like our cabinet that we have. we have great people. the cabinet for biden is inferior. host: let me hear from joe in maryland. your view on the 48 vice president? -- 48 vice president. caller: he was the hero of the day. that was american exceptionalism. he did his duty and he did it well. i think he really saved us from what was there. if he was to run as a republican

i might switch. i just think he would be a better man for our time, maybe he -- help heal the republican party. host: if it was in a general election president biden versus mike pence, who would you vote for? caller: that's a good question. that's a good one. i would really have to see. how things turn out here into the future. if biden can turn things around, that would be my vote for him. i would give pence a shot. host: let me show this piece by cnn. why you should hit pause on the

mike pence is a hero storyline. this is what he reports.

fort wayne, alabama. what do you think of the former vice president? caller: good morning. i think he is a good guy. he is a god-fearing guy. i think a lot of this -- we don't know all of it. if mike pence ran against a

democrat, i would vote for him. i'm not necessarily considering myself to be democrat or republican. i vote for the one that i feel like serves our country. i believe everything that's going on now in our country should be looked at and dropped the january 6 stuff. it's over. put it behind us. move forward. it was unfortunate. we had a lot of other bad things happen for this. none of that is being addressed. donald trump, i truly believe what he is saying. who knows really if he is right except for one person and that's almighty god.

he knows the truth. i think all this needs to be dropped. somebody needs to have some backbone and address what's going on in our country. as senior citizens, we are struggling to put food on the table. it's ridiculous. i've never seen anything like this. host: let me go back to what you said about my pants on the republican ticket you would vote for him. do you think the former should run it? what if it's a primary matchup between them? caller: former president trump? that would be a hard decision. i think trump did a lot of good for our country. i had money left at the end of the month. i have to take care of myself.

at that time, i was doing really good. when biden got in office, it all turned around. i don't know if mike pence would have a better financial ahead on him other than trump. that's a good question. that really is a good question. i don't know. host: thanks for calling in. we are not through the 2022 midterm election. she mentioned the january 6 committee. she wants to see it all go away. the panel has held three out of what appears to be seven public hearings. they will hold another one tomorrow. we will have live coverage on that. you can download our mobile video app. you can watch on our website. howard in indiana, a democratic

caller. you are from his home state. what do you think of him? caller: i didn't support him while he was governor. he was promoting a law that restricted religious freedoms for many people. it supported religious freedoms for certain groups. i think he's a failure as a vice president. he should have come out publicly, letting the public know that what trump was saying was not true. there is no right of the vice president to do anything close to what he is talking about. ultimately, he made it clear that he didn't have the right. that doesn't gain him anything. he should have done his job.

he did his job that day. he is not a hero for that. host: your argument is echoed by kathleen parker in the washington post about the former vice president. she writes in her piece:

that is kathleen parker in the washington post. jason in north carolina. we will get your thoughts on this. go ahead. caller: as far as mike pence goes, i put him in the category of a lot of other establishment persons in government.

i think they like to keep us arguing while they steal our money. a lot of things about january 6, the election issues. there's a reason people were up there on january 6. there is evidence the election was stolen. i think the election was stolen after seeing the arizona audit. host: did you listen to the january 6 committee hearing where they showed testimony by the former attorney general who said he told the president the investigated and there is not evidence that there was widespread fraud, enough that it would've changed the election results? caller: i don't believe that for a second. if you look at the arizona election, that contradicts what

bill barr is saying. they should never have been signed off on it. they have a broken chain of custody. host: nick is in delray beach, florida. we are talking about the former vice president. what do you think? caller: first, mike pence is a coward. he's always been a coward. he's a republican establishment i. you read an article by kathleen parker from the washington post. she talks about the disaster of the trump presidency. what exactly during donald some -- trump presidency was a disaster? inflation, gas prices, food prices, baby formula, foreign wars, what was this disaster? we are talking about a theft of

an election. like the last caller, i don't need to listen to bill barr or might and stood no that election was stolen. i have one question. you can answer it. if there was no theft of that election, why was it necessary in atlanta to lie and say there was a flood where they were counting votes and everyone had to leave. host: nick in florida said the former vice president is a coward. let's go to the january 6 public hearing, the third one they held last week on thursday. during that hearing, pete and lars showed pictures of former vice president after he was taken to a secure location in the capital. he asks the former legal counsel

about what happened after the breach of the capital. >> we understand that congressional leaders and others were evacuated from the capital complex during the attack. we would like to show you what happened after the vice president was evacuated from the senate. >> never before seen photos from the national archives that show the vice president sheltering in a secure underground location as writers overwhelmed the capital. vice president pence is seen looking at a tweet the president had just sent, tweet asking the writers to leave the capital. after 4.5 hours spent working to restore order, the vice president returned to the senate floor to continue the certification of electors.

>> vice president pentz was the focus of the violent attack. the vice president leave the complex during the attack? >> he did not. >> can you explain why he refused to leave the capital complex? >> we got down to the secure location, the secret service directed us to get into the cars. i noticed the vice president had not. i got out of the car i had gotten into and i understood the vice president had refused to get into the car. the head of his detail said i assure you we are not going to drive out of the building without your permission. the vice president said you're not the one behind the wheel. the vice president did not want

to take any chance that the world would see the vice president of the united states fleeing the capital. he was determined that we would complete the work we set out to do that day. it was his duty to see it through. the writers who had breached the capital would not have the satisfaction of disrupting the proceedings be on the day on which they were supposed to be completed. >> you were told to get into the cars. how many of the staff got into cars while he did not? >> most of us. host: from the committee hearing last week. some democrats are calling the former vice president a hero for his decision that day. we are asking you your view of

the former vice president. mike is in virginia. what do you think. caller: i've never been a great mike pence fan. i've never been a great dick cheney fan. the more i watch this hearing it, i think pence actually saved america. he did his job. liz cheney is doing her job. when i came home and i turned on the computer and i saw what was happening to the capital, i couldn't believe it. i had to turn on the big tv to watch it. i couldn't believe what was happening. after the election, you could see trump stacking the cards to do something. i was so worried what would happen.

thank god the military did not get involved more. he was trying to get people in the military to get involved. i feel for those people that came there. maybe they felt wronged. some of them signed an oath to the government to protect the constitution, to protect that building. what is going on? that was just wrong. it was nothing but a gigantic coup. it is sad to see that our country came to this point. host: would you ever vote for the former vice president? caller: i probably would not vote for pence. i would vote for liz cheney. i've never been a dick cheney fan. i am a liz cheney fan now. i was a republican back in the

reagan years. reagan did some stuff i did not agree with and it hurt my family. i was a good republican before that. i voted for nixon. i supported the vietnam war. i don't know. i've seen so much stuff the republicans have done lately. i don't think i would ever vote republican again. i will give liz cheney credit. host: adam kinzinger from illinois. caller: that is such a shame that he is retiring. it seems like a lot of republicans are retiring. stay and help. i know things look tough for mr. biden right now. we should pull together. i think congress is messing up. host: debbie is in florida.

your view this morning? caller: my view is i would not vote for pence. no one on that hearing has a defender fn -- attorney in that room for trump. they are all prosecutors. no one is a defender. they keep talking about there was a big light. the big lie is the biden administration. the democrat on the phone with you is brainwashed. no one believes why biden won that election. i've never believed it. trump only wanted pence to go to the legislation of these states where they had democrat court judges and other democrats that

would not allow it. pence should have sent those votes back to the legislation. that was his job. don't say pence didn't have a job that day. he failed the united states of america. host: susan in milford pennsylvania. caller: vice president pence came through when he had to. it showed the difference between donald trump and him. donald trump is full of lies, a con man. he was following the other dictators of the world, the one from north korea. vladimir putin. in america, i think trump was trying to pull a vladimir putin.

he wanted to be just like putin, in control of america. everybody just listen to me. what i say goes. people stopped thinking. host: was he a hero that take? -- day. caller: he followed the constitution. he listened. he had an opened mine and he listened to those people that knew the right thing to do for the government, to not give the country away, to someone that wanted it, to steal it and do whatever he wanted to do with it. he said no. dan quayle says this. my lawyers tell me that i cannot follow what you are saying. host: here is a tweet from one

of our viewers. mike in florida, we will go to you next. caller: the drama is unbelievable with this thing. very simply, had trump and pence said no to these electoral college votes, what happens as it goes to the house of representatives and they vote. the democrats would have voted for biden. that would've let everybody see which party was really in charge of who the next president was. they pretend like it was so close. there is a constitution. people have very little faith in it, especially the democrats. they should've have just gone

with it. everybody would have thought we have this failsafe. host: your view of the vice president? caller: i think he should have thought it through a little bit and let it go to the house. there were shenanigans that went on during the election. the mass mailing out of balance. i don't think california is eligible due to ballot harvesting. host: let's listen to liz cheney, the vice chair of the committee from thursday. she's talking about what the committee planned to do that day and the evidence they had. >> we are focusing on president trump's effort to pressure mike

pence to refuse to count electoral votes on january 6. here again is how the former vice president phrased it in a speech before the federalist society, a group of conservative lawyers. >> the president set i had the right to overturn the election. the president is wrong. i had no right to overturn the election. the presidency belongs to the american people and the american people alone. there is no idea more un-american than the notion of any one person choosing the american president. >> what the president one of the vice president to do was not just wrong, it was illegal and unconstitutional. we will hear many details in the hearings. please consider these points. president trump was told repeatedly that mike pence

lacked the constitutional and legal authority to do what president trump was demanding he do. this is testimony from mark short, the chief of staff who served in the trump administration in multiple positions. >> was it your impression the vice president had directly conveyed his position on these issues to the president? >> many times. >> was he consistent in conveying his position? >> very consistent. >> john eastman pressured pentz to do so anyway. the federal court has explained based on the evidence, the court finds that it is more likely than not that president trump and dr. eastman dishonestly

conspired to obstruct the joint session of congress on january 6. host: republican of wyoming, liz cheney from last thursday. we are asking your view of the former vice president. harold is in florida. caller: thank you so much for taking my call. first of all, liz cheney, i would not call her a republican. i can't pronounce his last name. nancy pelosi picked this cabal. nancy pelosi was involved in january 6. the only reason i know is because a friend of mine was there and the capitol police let all these people in. he lied about it. he lied about it. host: let's stick to your view

of the former vice president. caller: i think mike pence had one choice and that was to go with the flow. there was a lot of pressure on him. with the breaking into the capital, he had no choice. he thinks it was donald trump. this was a planned event. there was antifa as well as black lives matter. host: where did you read that? where did you see that? caller: i heard about it from a friend of mine. host: why do you -- why do you believe that is the truth versus the prosecution of 800 people? caller: two days before the event, donald trump called for the national guard and nancy pelosi canceled them. i find that very disturbing.

he knew there was going to be a lot of people on the mall. she canceled the national guard and did not call them until later. host: terry is in pittsburgh. caller: the first thing i'm going to say is raskin admitted this went to the house of represented. as far as running, i would like to see desantis run. he can appoint trump to be speaker of the house. you don't have to be elected to get that position. this whole thing with this trial going on, it is kabuki theater. there is no defense. it's the way it is. i watched this show they are putting on. it's like a hollywood movie. host: is there a role for mike

pence and the republican party? caller: that's up to the republican party. i think he was wrong and he didn't want to admit it. a lot of these people -- they want to indict the hero. host: we will go to ohio. good morning to you. caller: thank you. these trump collars, they call in, they knock mike pence. they knock bill barr. why don't you ask why did he pick some? if they are so bad it why did trump pick them? biden is a pedophile, donald trump was born in 1946.

his wife was born in 1970. host: what about the former vice president? your view of mike pence? caller: i don't like what the economy is now. i could maybe vote for pence. if it's trump again, there is no way. host: we will leave it there. the washington post, gop spends millions on people to search for fraud.

you can read more in the washington post. we are talking about your view of the former vice president. george in michigan. caller: good morning. i don't a while you have to put those soundbites on, you are wasting time. if you are a man of character, you admire what mike pence did. if your values can be sold and

your ethics can be benched because of the affiliation, you not going to like mike pence. the only logical choice for the next president would be me. i would have everybody mad at me. i would get pelosi, schumer, mccarthy in a room. no air conditioning. put a bucket in the corner so they can use it as a facility. i would not let them leave until they agreed on every issue. if you could stand the heat, i would have you as my running mate. once you accept the fact that all politicians are hypocritical and they can be purchased at any price, you are better off. i don't like either party.

somehow, he made the right decision. host: barbara is in arkansas. good morning. arizona? are you there? caller: good morning. i think that mr. pence did his job that date. as far as being a hero, that's questionable. i think he looks like a hero compared to donald trump. i think mr. pence did his job that day and we are thankful for it. i think liz cheney is doing a wonderful job. host: would you consider voting for mike pence if he were to run for president again?

caller: if i were a republican i would certainly consider voting for him. i'm not a republican. i have voted republican at times. i'm not sure what i would do since i'm not a republican. i would certainly vote for mr. pence over trump. host: robert is in alabama. caller: this is robert from alabama. i wanted to say that mike pence should have just counted the electoral votes and see if that agreed with the 2020 election. there would be no more confusion. it would have been settled. host: what is your view of him now? what do you think his political

future is? caller: i think it's very limited. host: why? caller: he should have done with the president asked him to do, just count the electoral votes. host: louis is in oklahoma. caller: hello. host: good morning. no ahead. caller: ok. i would vote for mr. pence if i knew more about him. what i would like to know about him, what is he going to do for veterans? how was he going to handle this job, which is so in norma's. we need gas prices corrected, there are a lot of things that need to happen. what does he plan to do about it? i think he has the knowledge, i would like to know more about what he would do for the people of the united states. host: what do you think about

the role he played january 6? caller: i think he did his duty. that's a tough decision. i would not like to have been in his shoes. i think as a man that is up there with that kind of power, i think he made the best decision he could at the time. i would have to support that. host: what do you think about the pressure that he felt by the former president? do you think the prep president -- president pressured him? caller: it looks like donald trump is a businessman that doesn't take no for an answer. that's good, but then again that's bad. donald trump made some great decisions for this country.

if you look at president trump versus the president we have now, what a difference. it's really an extreme difference. host: did you vote for president trump in 2016? caller: yes i did. i will vote for him again. the sad part about this thing is i wish january 6 had never happened. we wouldn't have this problem. there are a lot of things that could have been different. i think we are in peril here. how do we get an answer for all this? i don't have an answer for. it's just something that's going to have to play out and see where this is going to go. host: do you think you should be charged for his role? caller: i would have to question

that. i don't know what they know. if he broke the law, yes he should have to answer for. i don't see that he did. i don't know. host: what if it's a primary matchup between mike pence and the former president? caller: there again, i would like to see who is going to be running for president. desantis or maybe some other person that wants to get into the game. i would have to make my decision who is going to be running for president next time. i would consider trump. i think his biggest problem is he goes overboard. don't be so extreme, it might help people make a decision. i would have to -- base my

decision on who is going to run. host: abc put out a new poll yesterday. the former president should be charged for the january 6 riot. large numbers of republicans do not believe that. you can find that on abc.com. at the hearing, pete agee lara of california connected the former president's words on the morning of january 6 with violence later. let's listen. >> the president latched onto a dangerous theory and would not let go because he was convinced it would keep him in office. we witnessed what happened when the president of the united states weaponized this theory. the capital was overrun. police lost their lives.

the vice president was taken to a secure location because his safety was in jeopardy. let's take a look at the effect of his words and actions. >> i want to warn our audience the video contains explicit content. >> mike pence is going to have to come through for us if he doesn't, that will be a sad day for our country. i hope you're going to stand up for the good of our constitution and for the good of our country. i'm going to be very disappointed in you, i will tell you right now. >> i hear pence just caved. i am hearing reports that pence caved. we are going to grab -- drag motherfuckers through the street. >> pence will decide to do the

right thing. >> bring out pence. >> bring him out. >> hang mike pence. hang mike pence. hang mike pence. host: from the january 6 committee hearing last thursday, if you missed any of that, you can see the presentation they made. you can go to our website c-span.org. you can find all of the january 6 hearings. if you hit the play on the side of your screen, you will see the points of interest from that hearing marked with the goldstar so you can quickly go through the hearing and see what you may have missed.

tomorrow, the hearings will hold their fourth public hearing. we will have coverage on c-span3. you can watch on our website. let's hear from mark in tampa. caller: hi. good morning. i don't know why everyone is saying it was a hard choice for mike pence. he had one choice, that was to count the votes and certify the election. the constitution which he had to follow only provides for his role to be a ceremonial one for that thing he had to do that day. there was no other option.

when all the states certified their election results, that shows the election goes to joe biden. he can't just on his own decide were going to throw this to the house. we know that republicans will have more votes. trump will get elected. that is one person. that wasn't in the cards. mike pence wasn't a hero for doing the only thing the constitution said he should do. trump is the one -- even for the election he was saying it was stolen.

all these people that stormed the capital, they should all go to jail. they were misled by donald trump. he told them the election was stolen. they believed it. host: sylvia is in virginia. your view of the former vice president. caller: i think he is a man of integrity. i hope he runs for president. days before in georgia, president trump said if he doesn't stop the election, he would think otherwise of his vice president that he highly regarded. i like mike pence. i like him a lot. host: would you prefer he run for the republican nomination

over other contenders? caller: i would have to see -- there are other contenders i would like to consider. this is just so messy. i don't know how he can run against president trump. others may be able to. there is so much water under the bridge here. host: carl in florida. caller: good morning. i've listened to you a long time. vice president pence had integrity. i served in the military. they used to them -- emphasize integrity. he did what was right. a lot of your collars don't listen to the news. they've already made up their

minds that trump should have been president. he did his job. that is expected of him. they need to have integrity like he did. he made a stand. he did what was right. they are going to have a lot of problems in the united states. host: independent -- is that how i say it? caller: hello. good morning. thanks for taking my call. i would like to go a little further. i'm 63 years old. it used to be important in america.

today, you lie first. look at loudermilk now. i never gave a tort, then it was his family, then it was my family and some friends. in the military, the test at the academy, one person cheated and they didn't come forward, the whole class turned themselves in . there was integrity once in america. i don't know where it went. as far as mike pence goes, donald trump lied from day one. the first time i called him, they were fighting over whether trump's hats were made in china or not. we all know the answer to that now.

now we know that the president lied about the election. he got all of his sycophants behind him. let's stop the next one who loses to get a riot going. it's ridiculous to hear people call in and say that trump is not a liar. he's done this. no one has ever seen a president do this. host: i'm going to try to get in a couple of more calls. carol is in virginia. caller: good morning. in my opinion, he did what he was supposed to do. it is sad that when somebody does what they are supposed to do, we are excited about it. donald trump is not a man of integrity. i heard a lady say he's a man of

integrity. he cheats on his taxes, he asks people to build his buildings and does not pay them. if this was a crowd of people of color -- the people that follow donald trump are the same type of people. they believe that hanging people from trees after slavery had not been given a chance to be in a court of law. they took pictures with their children. they are the same type of people. host: what evidence do you have of that? caller: look at the pictures of people standing under trees where people have been hung. they are the same people that own slaves and believed it was ok to have sex with slaves. they called them less than humans.

host: let's hear from dan in new york. caller: amen to the last caller. i always felt mike pence was -- he had to go along with trump. he would be sticking up for trump. it was spot on. when i left the military, we are reminded to protect the constitution and obey laws. i totally agree with mike pence. host: would you vote for him? caller: if we get the country to go. i liked hogan from maryland. i think trump is in it for the money. he just made $250 million.

host: minnesota. caller: good morning. at 2:00 in the morning, he was 7000 votes ahead. then i think another thing is based on what is happening. host: what is your view of the former vice president? caller: the former vice president, you're doing a good job. i think the whole thing is how people look at it. look at the trial they are having right now.

everything is a prosecution. nothing is a defense. they have two republicans on that panel. who are they? it's a kangaroo court. host: we will leave it there for now. we are going to take a break. when we come back, the center for urban renewal will tell us about their latest publication, the state of black america. later, a historian from the university of texas will outline the history of juneteenth and the significance of it being recognized as a federal holiday for the first time ♪ >> the january 6 committee enters the day for of public

hearings as they continue disclosing evidence allard in their investigation. watch the hearing live tuesday at 1:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. or any time at c-span.org. you can visit our website at c-span.org/january6hearings. c-span. your unfiltered view of government. ♪ >> be up-to-date in the latest of publishing with book tv's podcast about books. with current, nonfiction book releases, industry news and trends through insider interviews. you can find about books on c-span now, our free mobile app. or, wherever you get your podcasts. ♪ >> this week, the january 6

committee continues its work investigating its attack on the capital with two scheduled hearings. in the wake of the largest federal rate increase in 30 years, federal reserve chair jerome powell testifies before the senate inking committee -- banking community -- committee. the house and senate out today in observance of juneteenth. the house takes up a bill accessing benefits for veterans exposed to chemicals. watch this week on the c-span networks, or on c-span now, our free, mobile video app. c-span. your unfiltered view of government. >> "washington journal"

continues. host: joining us is william b. allen, a resident scholar at the center for urban renewal and education. remind us, what it is, your mission and who funds you. guest: the organization was founded in 1995 by star parker. it is a nonprofit organization founded by thousands of contributors across the country. this organization continues to exist in order to address the needs of the stressed communities throughout the united states. at its origin, it is at -- it has played a pivotal role in securing welfare reform in the clinton administration. host: in your recent publication, "the state of black

america", how did it come about and why? guest: in 2022 the middle of 2021 -- 2020 two the middle of 2021, we saw the importance to create a text with where we stood in today with regards to race. we stood to address the narrative which suggests that america has not made any progress since the end of slavery. in order to ask, where were we then, what have we come through since then, where are we now and what the future looks like. we solicited contributions from experts from all across the country, and selected from proposals you see. those are best suited to answer the purpose we had in mind. we have published eight essays, six of those from the proposed

submitted, two i authored with assistance from a co-editor. host: let's talk about the forward written by thomas lincoln stein. guest: he -- his duration was the principal donation of the book. it wasn't the sole one. he made the principal donation, he got the forward in honor of the position. host: he writes, "the woke communists want to destroy the way of life. woke comm must convince their country that black americans are oppressed by white americans. if we are to preserve america, we must defeat this light. black americans are not oppressed.

opportunities for black americans have never been better. do you agree, and what did you find out? guest: all names aside, the reality is, there has been since the end of said -- slavery, an extraordinary story of progress. i pointed in my book to the argument made by frederick douglass and ida b wells. american blacks were excluded from the 1893 columbian exposition, and douglas and wells protested that. it was the content they protested that was significant. they said, in 1519, we set the country on the wrong path. we implanted a cancer in the breath of the body politic. we could not get rid of that cancer without radical surgery,

which we did in this civil war. since that time, we has shown extraordinary progress. freed persons became persons with agency, were capable and making advances. keeping them out of the -- didn't deny the story of accomplishments of american blacks, it denied the story of america's accomplishment because they could attribute those compliments to the strength and resilience of american heritage. host: what progress do you point to in recent times, and what are the opportunities? guest: we had a broad, historical review. we show that at the end of slavery, there was a consistent large quarter. it deemphasizes the singularities that are often in the media, i.e., the first this, or the first that. the changes in the vast mass of

society. looking from the valley, we can see the extraordinary, for example, between 1816 and 1890, a doubling of the population of the pursuit and health of slavery. by 1920, a 50% literacy rate obtained. during the riots in atlanta, charlston, the massacre, those attacked were not helpless black people. they were black people forging a path forward in the working class -- we are trying to show people that perspective that everything has been backwards since the end of slavery, the opposite has been true. we saw educational, economic, cultural and social improvements. from the 1860's until today, we had a kind of willful project

fullness about what the history of american blacks have been in this country, and the progress that has been obtained. even as formal segregation was dismantled, and even as the obstacles through residential mobility toward -- were greatly reduced, we still spoke and were litigated in an age of complete oppression. host: what is the harm of that, in your opinion? guest: there is one fundamental harm. the first and most important, i want to emphasize is that we have hamstrung the entirety society -- entire society and american blacks of victimhood. the myth that says black people cannot do it, they cannot provide for themselves, they are not capable of self-government. we saw that with -- beginning as early as 1936, the idea that minorities cannot be protected

by democratic processes. he sought in 1965, lyndon b. johnson proclaimed equal opportunity was not enough. that was his message, it said to black people, you cannot do it. it said to the larger community, we have to become guardians of black people. we have been locked in that narrative ever since, which has spread in the communities all across the country. we are leaders in black communities have adopted the dependent victimhood mindset and have said, we cannot expect to move forward in america until america, i.e. non-black america, takes that first step of advancing us. that is such a backward way of looking at reality that was demonstrated in the early years, in the aftermath of slavery's fall. host: how do you break up that narrative? guest: with the truth.

that is why this collection of essays has brought -- is not a single point of view. there are several essays. we have essays that show the foundation of rights, how they were used and affected. we have the essays that show the statistical realities, we have the essays that question the policies in the 1960's. we have precious hold and daphne cooper, who said, yes there are problems. but the thing to do now is not turn our back on government efforts to sustain communities, but to -- their policies. we have all perspectives presented, we are persuaded that anybody who takes the time to read all the prospectus, all arguments, cannot fail to see the truth. host: what are policies that need to be put in place, federal, state level? guest: it is not a policy, but a

change in discourse. the idea that racism with a capital r is the most important thing conflating us, it is a new poison or cancer being injected into the veins of society. tell the truth and say that racism with a capital r is not the reality the united states faces. what we have to put in place, apologies that emphasize responsibility with a capital r, which say, in urban communities, look, you can do it. it falls upon you to do it. that is what greg larry emphasizes so eloquently. it is no longer suitable to expect someone else to solve the immediate problems of communities because it is the very promise of the united

states, self-government works. it is necessary to express confidence people can provide for themselves. this is not to say there is not any way in which government support, or what we might call safety nets, are required. of course there are. government direction, government control of communities, that is not required. these policy changes are getting rid of government control, let's take one example of that brought in a essay by star parker. we have seen, since the end of world war ii, a targeting of black communities. the independence of children was not designed for black people, but for nonblacks. it made the occasion -- would use synonyms. we saw that recently, a president of the united states.

that is a falsehood then, it led to practices. it led to voicing fathers out of families, especially in black communities. at the same time those communities were being targeted with abortion clinics. we saw a rise in single-parent family hood, i.e., out of wedlock births. at the same time we saw a massive rise in abortion. women alone -- the targeting of the black communities in those policies have had as much to do with disintegration in those communities as anything else. putting an end to the targeting of black communities social engineering is one of the first steps we need to take. host: where are there examples of communities that are doing this on their own, that are rejecting the narrative you have laid out? guest: our reality today, the

example of the now primarily is the past. yes, you can still find smaller communities here and there that are not affected by this. there have been a -- of american black communities from everywhere else. there, you will find pockets that are influenced directly behind this. however, it is the case be solved, even during the darkest years of pervasive lynching. the terror this created in this country, the era of enforced segregation, jim crow. the greatest kind of oppression. we could point to communities in people who took responsibility for themselves. i gave one example a few years ago when i took school teachers throughout the south on a tour of civil rights movement memorials. one of the things we stopped was selma, alva -- alabama. we met at big bethel, where strategists would march on behalf of voting rights,

gathered to strategize. it looked like discussion with those teachers, i stopped and looked about this sanctuary and asked them, who do you think duped us? consider, this is a example of grace and beauty. it was done out of the resourcefulness, energy and intelligence of people, the black people in alabama, who worship here. in other words, they were not helpless victims. they were resourceful people who had responsibility, who had energy, who had direction, fortitude, who could take care of themselves. those were examples across the country. if we look at communities, baptists had stopped looking at only singularities. host: let's get the calls.

michael in grand rapids, michigan. we are dividing the lines regionally this morning, they are on your screen. the rest of you can dial in. though ahead. caller: propaganda is not for black folks, for short. in fact, attacking black folks. you are attacking the federal government, how it is holding black folks down. we have to look toward the federal government to protect black folks'rights. states don't. i am sure you are in favor of states rights. states can continue to deny. you mentioned abortion. abortion is a way for people to control their lives. you talk about the both ways, so on and so forth. you guys got your types, often

include. what about the whites? the white families? how can you say the thing you are saying, when you look at the unemployment rate for black folks? when you look at the resegregation of schools in the united states, when black folks cannot find affordable and accommodating housing? we are dealing with the same we are dealing with after reconstruction, in fact, reinforcing those old reconstruction rules. host: let's get a response. guest: i think this is a beautiful summary of all the myths that are refuted in this book. i certainly invite our guest to read the book. if he has the willingness and the action to consider the possibility that perhaps he has made a mistake. let's go back to his concluding comments, that nothing has

changed since reconstruction. this is the great light of racism that we have addressed -- lie of racism that we have addressed. we have shown the history. we have -- we understand how tenuous voting rights were in the early stages of this process, and why it took sustained, legal efforts to overcome that. we understand why it took sustained, legal efforts to enforce segregation. we -- it says something else, it is important for the country to recognize. to see black people congregating someplace does not mean they are a problem. that does not mean they are congregating because somebody has forced them into a corral and kept them there. sometimes, they do things they do because they choose to do them. this denial that black people have agency, that they make decisions for themselves, this sense that somebody else

somewhere is making all the decisions. at the same time arguing that somebody somewhere else needs to come in and solve the problem. it is only putting padded cuffs on black people, not liberating them. as i mentioned before, gregory douglas -- frederick douglass, booker t. washington, demonstrated how important it is to take the handcuffs off. host: eric and washington, d.c. good morning. caller: good morning. this gentleman had a good -- a book, you get your money the best way you can. but, what i get is, we -- he keep thinking we keep blaming people for -- it is not happening, but it is. tell stash stop telling me the sky is dark but it is blue.

i am 60 years old. i am not going to degrade you, i do not care how you get your cash. let's give a real example. in washington, d.c. area, there was a predominantly white community. as soon as other folks started moving in, guess where they went. they went across the bridge. the same as d.c., i blame our people because what we have to do is stand up. we are standing up for ourselves. we are asked some angst can be rate -- right. stop using the black men in the house crap. so what if a lot of people do not have fathers in the house. he may not be in the house, but he is in the -- his life.

he may not be in the same house as him -- i raised my first daughter. you can believe one thing, she is a good person. host: mr. allen. guest: i cannot agree more strongly with the gentleman. i have constantly reminded people throughout all of human history, being a single parent wasn't necessarily a curse. there were many people who were riddled by war, accident or disease, ended up raising children alone. you will find not a single word in this book that criticizes that relationship. what you heard me to say however, is that forcing fathers out of families was wrong. i am not talking about fathers and mothers for whatever reasons live apart or who are not married. i am talking about having rules, policies, laws and regulations that say you cannot be together.

no one can persuade me that was ever the right thing to do. no one can ever persuade me that it didn't have consequences. all relevant studies demonstrate that children thrive better when they are raised by both parents. that does not mean that children cannot thrive when they are raised by a single parent. what is important is that the parents, whether together or apart, no they are the ones who are shaping the events of their lives, and not someone else. not doing it merely to conform to social policy, merely to acquire a check or anything else similarly. there is no reason we should concede that kind of power to the government. so that, it is in behalf of, in defense of, people who -- this gentleman has indicated, devote

themselves to their offspring, who ought to make the primary decisions on how those offspring ought to be raised. host: marty in maryland. your turn. caller: mr. allen, there are multiple problems in your narrative as you opened this show. number one, you come from an organization that was started by star parker. number two, you showed a picture of the forward of your book, i think it was written by someone called kling and filter. kling and stein. the portion you showed, he indicates that racism -- he is minimizing the effects of racism in america. thirdly, during your narrative, you talked about the progress that like people have made --

lack people have made. white supremacy racism directed towards black people toward the entire history of this country is the thread that runs through the fabric of this country. that racism is evident in june 2020. it is curious you would try and demise the effects and insidious in its of -- insidiousness of that racism. to the credit of our black ancestors, we have had to fight this racism for 450 years, we are still fighting it today. you today talking about, these things, minimizing the effects of racism in america is extremely problematic. host: let's get a response. guest: it is certainly a wonderful demonstration of the problem i have described on the outset. the idea of racism with a

capital r is a poison that has infected the veins and minds of many people. such that, they are taken prisoner by it. they cannot see beyond that fear to their own agency and since of responsibility. one of the things we have done is bring forward a powerful argument in defense of their capabilities, even when they do not believe in them themselves. we can show that the story from 1619, the darkness ascribed to it in these kinds of comments, but also all the light that has led to lifting the darkness. the denial of that, the denial that it was in the united states that those principles and values took root not allowed slavery to be overcome. if itself -- in itself, the way

of reintroducing slavery, if not introducing slavery directly. i am concerned we are so open to this poisonous injection into our veins, it represents a new form of cancer. the first cancer had to be removed by radical surgery, we can say we are in remission over 150 years later. the cancer is not going to return. there is new cancer, more insidious. radical surgery cannot touch it as it infects us individually. that means, only chemotherapy will work. the only possible chemotherapy is open discussion and conversation to basic truth -- to face the truth directly and overcome these fears and misconceived ideas of what is actually -- has actually happened.

i would like to say, if people's greatest problem was to keep the slaves from running away, every exertion was established, state laws, patrols, were there to keep people there, keep people in. since then, we have discovered, there is no barrier. yet, we know, america's exits are not crowded. no one is rushing to get away. that needs to be explained, and can only be explained by the reality that we can -- away in the united states. host: respond to the colors point that racism is still -- caller's point that racism is still here. he mentioned the summer of 2020, what happened to forge floyd and others. guest: as i said before, racism with a r -- that doesn't mean

they are not racists here. today, yesterday, will be tomorrow, everywhere on earth. to be imprisoned by the presence of racists, and imagine that everything is determined by racism, the capital r, is a way of self-mutilation, a form of disempowering one's self. that is a reality that is shaped by all of our experiences, positive and negative. my great -- when my great grandfather came to this country so long ago, only a few years ago, slavery ended. he came willingly, voluntarily, emigrating, looking for opportunity. he got here, discovered he was just another slave.

but, did he make a mistake, seeking opportunity, seeking freedom? a few years after he got here, slavery was abolished. he formed a family, that family is present still in this country. in many respects, thriving. not thriving as some callers seem to imagine, i am making money --a book. i draw no compensation from it, whatever. it is important we have this conversation, because what happens to america is important. that is one of the reasons we have underscored in the book the reality, what is really at stake is not the fate of american blacks, but the fate of the united states. we are strongly persuaded that the united states itself cannot survive unless it survives under

the stress of black patriotism. that is to stay, not exclusively black patriotism, but black patriotism coming to the defense of the united states, specifically to carry it forward in this journey. that is a critical reflection, there is a responsibility that it is about time for american blacks to accept, and for nonblacks to recognize. it is no longer the case that, what is needed for american blacks, is to receive a handout. what is needed now is to extend a helping hand. host: yesterday was juneteenth, today is a federal holiday for the first time. what is the significance of that? guest: we are going to have an extended conversation at the national constitution center this evening, i invite the listeners to tune in.

we have a discussion about that, i will go through detail about it. i will not bore you with it now, but i will say this. i think the critical factors for us to examine is how we focus on juneteenth, given the actual circumstances of juneteenth, and never focus on a man city -- emancipation itself as worthy of celebration. host: explain that, worthy of celebration. guest: we know that the emancipation was announced in september of 1860 two, proclaimed in january of 1863. we know that it happened three years later, in taxes, in east texas, was only a result of the backwardness of texas, not the result of the immediate reality that the emancipation had been declared. most of the territory was in rebellion. we never celebrated that accomplishment, which was a

specific accomplishment that grew out of the struggle to extirpate the cancer of slavery, and represent the triumph of american principles. what we had done was slid into a cultural backwater, rather than embrace the broad ocean of freedom, which is given to us in the form of a legacy of the american heritage. host: mac in south carolina. good morning. caller: very interesting conversation from mr. allen. i would like to say, the attack on the capital was personally offensive. i am a combat veteran from vietnam. in addition to that, that truck load of people the other day, caused me to cancel a purchase

because there is an individual who works -- host: can you ask a question or comment on the topic, please? guest: how does a black american know where to send his money if owners of dealerships or members of proud boys? guest: the question -- guest: you have to be a willing buyer to deal with people where you can place confidence, to where you cannot place confidence. that arrangement works. that arrangement protects us. nobody has to apologize because they didn't buy something from someone else. that is a decision the buyer has to make. there is a old, let the buyer beware. be where before -- beware before he buys.

that is the real expression we ought to use. host: diane, st. paul, minnesota. caller: good morning c-span. i am 72 years old. what i am hearing here is not in my reality in america. the reason i say that, our community, who gathers for everything, businesses and our community. what happens is, we cannot get money to hold up a business. you can have a great idea, but if you do not have capital, you cannot get a business. all these white full bang can come into -- folks can come into our neighborhood and get money taken out. that was places black people created, the black communities in florida. guess what, white folks accused people of doing things they hadn't done.

do not tell us the government has nothing to do with what happens to us. the government does. this is a racist society that is set up for white people, not for us. we get redlined in our communities. we cannot get our houses refinanced. if you have got a home, you better keep it. they are trying to buy them and take us out of our neighborhoods. that is what has been happening all of our life. host: if you can hold on, we will get a response. guest: i am curious about one thing. it turns out, i am older than everyone who has called in and mentioned their age. i grew up in the segregated south in lord of, -- in florida. these conceptions they described are not alien to me. what i am doing is saying, look.

you are locked in a prison. i am here. host: i think mr. allen froze up on us. he is joining us via zoom this morning. we will see if we can get him back momentarily. we have 10 minutes left in this conversation. we will go to sean in florida. what are your thoughts on what you have heard mr. allen? caller: i have heard a lot. i disagree. i think he is looking at it from a different point of view. let's start with slavery, we were released, they call that the reconstruction period. everything i learned in school, mostly was a lie. i call it the deconstruction period, because in that timeframe, all the way from the late 1800s to the early 1900s, black people did well, really well.

to the shop, when white people found out, they destroyed -- to the shock, when white people found out, they destroyed those communities. in opal,, -- in oklahoma, florida, all these places. whole towns got flooded. all this stuff. they said, we going to hose them down again. black folks in the 1930's, when white people were doing bad, black folks were doing good. white folks were like, why aren't they making money? that was the reason for segregation, they needed a money base. ever since segregation started, this has been a systematic brainwashing of black folks to make them feel like whatever they had going on was not good enough, whatever white people

had going on was superior to what they had going on. they stopped their whole communities. they stopped building shopping plazas, they stopped having black owned grocery stores. they stopped because they wanted to spend their money with the white people and the white grocery stores, the process of doing that, they killed the black community. host: mr. allen is back with us. guest: can you hear me? thank you. i am sorry i froze up. i heard everything, i didn't miss anything. i am amazed. so much of what the last caller represents the recount -- reality in terms of the facts, that is what the book is about. it shows, what happened was, black -- were grand, enforced

segregation, jim crow which was concluded -- was an attempt in putting the genie back in the bottle. it demonstrated it could not be done. therefore, all the explanations that attribute everything to the power of the man or ways of depreciating the victories that have been obtained over the course of this past century. we want people to read -- to wake to the reality, there was an era of deep, dark terror. i grew up experiencing, personally aware, lynching did not stop all of the sudden. it came as, what happened in 1955, emmett till shocked everybody. the fact of the matter is, we held our heads up.

we were not overcome by the terror. we persisted. we do have within ourselves the agency to persist. we have something else. we have an obligation to recognize where the freedoms come from, that enable us to persist. that is what this book is about. host: chris, louisville, kentucky. good morning. caller: good morning. it is mr. allen, right? guest: correct. caller: when the show was starting, i didn't know. i wanted to alert you, i am an african-american, african scholar. as i sent to you, the thing that jumped out to me that told me that your whole premise is, let me see the word i will use. i will be nice. false. if you can say that racism isn't

the end-all be-all of what is holding us back, then everything else you say after that is speechless. because, if not for racism, african-americans would be in a totally better situation in america. i would give you the best, strongest example of racism that exists right now in 21st century america. if you look at what happened on january the sixth, and you change all those white people, it was 95 to 98% -- 95% to 98% white people. they stormed and almost destroyed our democracy. if that had been african-americans, native americans, mexicans, they would have came with the government very quickly. guest: i think the caller makes one critical mistake, that is to say that there have been indications to railroad lack people and other -- black people

and other people. many of them, particularly in the summer of 2020. the response is not what he thinks would have happen. the idea that on january 6, our democracy was under assault, is eight -- is ludicrous. yes, the capital was attacked. it has been attacked in other courses of history. it was not attacked in any threat to our democracy. how do you know that? you know that because you saw the national security apparatus of the united states was absent on january 6, it exhibited no concern whatsoever about the danger to the country. one of the things i have always marveled that, nobody has ever bothered to ask, where was the national security apparatus? where were our defense and intelligence operatives?

they were not present, because they did not see a danger. we need to understand something. we are often prey to false images. you may think the premise of this book is incorrect. i would be willing to annotate a debate with anybody who would actually read it. host: you froze up at the end, he said you would be willing to entertain a debate, then you said? guest: i would be willing to entertain a debate with anybody who read the book. host: are you a supporter of former president trump? guest: i am a professor, retired, my last employment was at michigan state university

where i served as dean and professor of political philosophy. i served for a short term as chief operating officer, president and simply retired. i am not politically engaged. i have, without going into details about past elections because i do not want to muddy the waters about my book -- this book. in 2016, i did not support donald trump. on the day after the election, i announced i would support the people's choice. i continue to stand precisely on that ground. i accept the outcome of the elections. not everyone is as easy and come to bull saying that as i am. i have no problem with that -- comfortable saying that as i am. i have no problem with that. caller: i want to commend esther allen for taking the stand most black people -- mr. allen for

taking the stand most lack people are afraid to take. one thing my mother, she didn't have an education. one thing she taught us, with education and you work hard, you can make it in america. i served in vietnam. we all served in militaries. i worked for the federal government. one thing, the government puts people in projects. what they do is keep us in poverty. what most black people do not understand, if you see people coming from mexico, they do not depend on the government to get ahead, -- we depend on the government. as long as we depend on the government, we stand in poverty. let god bless you, you cannot

depend on the government to get ahead. mr. allen, i appreciate you, because we got caught up in racism. racism is not holding you back, it is yourself. look in the mirror. out, go do something -- get out, go do something. if you depend on the government, you are going to stay in poverty, you are going to look for somebody to blame. the only place to blame is yourself. look in the mirror, get up and do better for yourself. don't let nobody stop you from saying what you are saying, rather -- brother. god bless you. guest: i want to give you one word of encouragement, things have changed -- things are changing right around us.

our greatest problem is, we need to open our eyes. our ears hear the drumbeat, here the narrative of racism. our eyes can tell us what is actually happening in the united states, a great practice of absorption is taking place. the elements of american life becomes mainstream, we see it, especially in the valley. those people who speak from the mountaintops, who try to persuade us all is glum, all is dark, are not paying attention to how we are mixing it up in the valleys, how we are redefining what it means to be an american. that process is very encouraging. i -- i outline that process in my book in great detail. i challenge anyone to read this and see whether they can say, no, that is not true. there is no absorption taking place in the united states play.

i am pretty sure no one will be able to see that -- say that. host: you can follow on twitter. mr. allen, thank you for the conversation this morning. guest: thank you for the conversation. you are most welcome. host: later, peniel joseph from the university of austin -- university of texas at austin recognizes the history of juneteenth. after this break, more of your phone calls. we are in open forum, any public policy issue on your mind. there are the lines on your screen. start dialing in. we will be right back. ♪ >> c-span's the weekly podcast brings you audio recordings from our video library, comparing the

events to the past to the day -- from the past two today. watergate happened 50 years ago. police arrested burglars in the democratic national committee headquarters in washington, d.c. we remember the gordon liddy in this episode. he helped the water break -- watergate break-in and survey 20 year sentence p he reinvented himself as a radio show talk host. >> they might have me assassinated, i did not want some amateur doing it with a shotgun on a sunday morning through the kitchen window. they take out me and the kids. i would just go stand on some street corner, get it done without harming the taxpayers.

the dean's comment was, i do not think we have gotten to that point yet. >> you can find leon c-span now, -- the weekly on c-span now. ♪ >> listening to programs through c-span radio just got easier. important congressional hearings and other events throughout the day. catch washington today for a report on today. tell your smart speaker, play c-span radio. c-span. powered by cable. ♪ >> at least six presidents recorded conversations while in office. here many of those conversations on c-span's new podcast.

>> season one opus is on lyndon b. johnson. you will hear about the civil rights act, the march on selma, the war in vietnam. not everyone knew they were being recorded. >> johnson secretaries knew, they were transcribing those conversations. they made sure the conversations were tape, as johnson would signal to them through an open door between his office and there's. >> you will hear blunt talk. >> how will i report the number of people assigned to kennedy, the day he died, the number of people assigned to me now? if i can't ever go to the bathroom, i will not go. i promise you, i will stay right behind these gates. >> presidential recordings, find it on the c-span app or wherever

you get your podcasts. ♪ >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are back in open forum this morning, any public policy issue on your mind. we stick with this conversation until about 9:30 eastern, and return to a conversation about juneteenth, about black america. that will be our last half hour on "washington journal." ron, nevada, republican. what is the public policy issue on your mind? caller: i would like to reference the professor's segment, would you say his name again? host: william allen. caller: he wrote the book there. host: it was a publication of eight essays, he wrote a couple

of those essays. caller: ok. he is associated with cure, which was started by star parker and somebody else. i want to go back to what he was saying and make a comment or two. i thought it was very enlightening, it stirred a lot of controversy, which was good. the controversy was not blunt and crude, it was intellectual. what i would like to say first is, i am a fan of star parker. i haven't seen her in the media much these days, but she was somebody i heard speak before. i would probably like to learn more about cure, that is something that is interesting to me. what i wanted to say was, the professor referenced the

beginning in 1600, it was a cancer. he said this cancer is now in a different stage, it needs to be looked at as a sickness. the metaphor he used was well said, except for one thing. my perspective is, i look at the beginning of the united states when it had slavery as a birth defect, not as cancer. when any living entity is born with a birth defect, that living entity is starting out not as healthy or upright as it would be. generally, that birth defect as we do now with birth defects in our society, we try to help that

living entity overcome the birth defect and go on with whatever is supposed to be natural and healthy. i would like to look at it personally and have the people that need to be looking forward in this society we live in, there was a birth defect. that birth defect was corrected as best as possible. the big example in this history of ours is the civil war. so then, now, we have sickness within our society. so, this sickness, what is going on with the people on either side of the issue that you -- people are taking up their sites, whatever they think they are. realistically, there is a sickness. people who are looting -- limiting their opportunities are limiting their ability to

perceive what their opportunities are, are falling into the trap of the sickness. the professor was astounding to me, how focused he was on his position. as people came in and criticized him, he was very calmly explaining to them, you have to look yonder this or that, or whatever. one thing i thought was astute, anybody who was criticizing did not read the collection of essays. i would say, as a person who tuned in to your show late like the other gentlemen did, i would say, read the essays. read the book. go back and say, this is my position. host: there is the book on the screen, "the state of black

america." good morning. caller: i'm calling in segments -- in regards to the segment about vice president pence. once again, nothing about being a sore loser. we are watching these hearings on the insurgency, and the fact that president trump really had no regard for his vice president, other than, i want results for me. you can harken back -- it is in the hearings, gore versus bush in florida. if vice president gore had done that and said, i am going to claim myself the president because i have the right to do that, could you imagine the firestorm that would have came down from the republican side? we have to look at this as what

it is. it is nothing but sore loser. we have to trust in our voting system. as far as i know, i believe that president trump is being sued by dominion for false claims that the machines were rigged. what is going to make this country believe that we have a fair and balanced and right voting system? we go through hanging chads, we go through voting machines. except the results and move on. host: on that point, here is the new york times this point. texas gop adopts stolen election claims. they made a series of far right declarations as part of its official party platform over the weekend, claiming that president biden was not legitimately elected, issuing a rebuke to senator cornyn for bipartisan

gun legislation, and referring to homosexuality as an abnormal lifestyle choice. also related to this conversation is the editorial board of the washington post this morning, writing, 60 electoral count law now before president trump tries to exploit it again. they write, the grounds on which lawmakers should be permitted to reject the states electors should be extremely narrow. when a sufficient number of protests state electoral slate, it takes a bare majority in each chamber to sustain that objection, which means a partisan congress could overturn an election by a majority. they should ensure the federal courts are empowered in case a governor since in a -- of

electors. caller: i agree with that article. they should make it more difficult for objections against the electors. in this case, there was clear violations of the constitution. it was clear violations of the constitution. for swing states broke constitutional law. 18 attorneys general agree with that. 160 six congresspeople agreed to it. seven senators agreed. the previous caller said that -- maybe if they didn't violate the constitution. did mike pence do what he was supposed to do? he did. he had an opportunity.

he also had a right to be able to read a letter sent to him by the states requesting they get a chance to litigate that. he had a right to adjourn the meeting. the big lie is that he had the right to just hand trumped the election. there is nothing in the constitution that says he can do that. mike pence wasn't clear on what the electoral act was. he was asking all sorts of people, at spice president. i think we should take a competency test for week elect people to office. he should've known his duties. the end result was for people to say that our constitution was in jeopardy is a lie. that is one of the most complex documents i've ever read. it lays everything out. the congress has all the power. they could beat anything -- veto

anything he did. if mike pence was around during slavery, we would still have slavery because that was in the constitution. i feel he was a coward. i don't find people who are heroes stand up and let stuff they know is illegal happen. bill barr said there is not a single judge in this country that would've overturned an election on fraud no matter how much you would've found. that's why he -- he caused to this. he should've investigated the legality in those swing states. he did not do it. that is unconstitutional. he allowed it to happen. host: what evidence do you have that there was enough to overturn, to change the election results? caller: forget the fraud.

the elections were run illegally. they violated the constitution. it's like somebody robbing a bank. that's why people are upset. they know the constitution was violated. when nobody did anything about it, they should've objected. i don't care who would've one. our constitution failed us because people fail this. host: how was the constitution violated? caller: they were not supposed to change the laws without going through the state legislatures. the governors and courts allowed that to happen irrespective of the fact of what the constitution said. 18 a geez said they were run illegally. host: because they allowed mail-in voting? early voting? all of those things? caller: in pennsylvania, it's against the constitution to have

mail-in voting. they did it anyway. they didn't have the people vote on it. they broke the law. they allow them to count the votes. i'm not saying that everybody was a fraudulent vote. the point is we know they violated the law the way they ran the election. these people that keep saying it's the fairest election ever don't understand. they feel that anybody should rob a bank anytime they want and keep all the money. that's what happened. i can't prove with the vote would've been. the bottom line is we know it was run illegally. host: mark, a republican in pennsylvania. the washington times reporting an update on bipartisan talks in the senate on gun legislation.

more to come this week on this bipartisan gun proposed -- if it gets to the floor. mary is in washington. good morning. caller: good morning. i'm calling to respond to a statement that your guest made, mr. allen. he said that if january 6 would have been a threat to our

democracy, the defense intelligence apparatus would've responded. no one is talking about it. the defense and intelligence apparatus new that these rioters were trump people. as has been evident for years, anything that trump wanted, people obeyed. the apparatus was not there because these were trump people and the apparatus did not want to oppose what trump wanted. i'm not a scholar. i'm not all that astute. for the past four years of trump presidency, all of us have seen

that he got what he wanted. no one could count the number of people in his ministration that left because they did not agree with what he wanted. the january 6 committee to the best of my knowledge is not investigating what happened with the military and the defense apparatus. if you recall, there was some discussion about a request going to the apparatus to do something and nothing was done by them. i believe it's because everyone in america knew that these were trump people and people in the executive branch under trump knew not to oppose him. thank you. host: irene is in california. we are in open forum. caller: my main comment is

regarding -- i want to comment on the previous regarding pence. he did not do righteous. he either should have waited, put this to hold until the next day. i would never vote for mike pence. he is not a man of integrity. his mother would vote for trump and not him. trump was a good man. i wanted to talk about the guest you had on. he's part of an organization. i am definitely going to get his book and get more books. i am going to give them to students.

his book is very important. there is white people that don't know what's going on. i was very saddened by the calls that were against him. god bless that caller from north carolina. i would like to know your callers, if they could see a documentary called systematic deception. it's an excellent documentary. people need to wake up. host: south carolina. caller: i wanted to talk to you about the author that was on it. a lot of people are not racist.

i understand that. power is the thing that's going on. when we were freed, the people in power kept making laws to keep us down. we had to work hard to try to get these laws removed. even today, the laws in many states are still there. what they need to do is go back and change these laws so everybody can get on an equal field. that's what i feel like. he never talked about the laws we have now. in our society, until we get the laws together, racism has nothing to do with it. the men in power want to stay in power. they made the laws that make it hard for people.

thank you very much. host: michael in boston, massachusetts. good morning. michael, are you with us? i'm going to move on to henry who is in virginia. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to say about the election. mr. trump said if he got elected, there would be no transfer of power because he would turn this into a dictatorship. does anybody really want that where the family would run this country until?

it would be trump, then his sons, his daughter. does anybody really want that? he wants these investigations often. i'm a combat veteran myself. i'm getting scared. things are getting out of hand. i hate to see people taking up guns and shooting at each other, going into stores. when you get those innocent kids out there, people need to have protection in their homes. a nine meter would do the same thing. new start shooting people with these ar-15's, it's a sad day. thanks for taking my call. host: we are in open forum. our last half hour, we will talk

about the juneteenth holiday that fell on a sunday this year. it was made a federal holiday under president biden last year. today is the federal holiday marking that occasion. sheila jackson lee outlined some of the details of a bill that would fund the commission to study reparations for african americans. here's what she had to say. >> it did pass the house committee last year, it hasn't come up for a vote. can you explain what that bill would do? has the speaker committed that she will bring this up for a vote? >> and we introduced this legislation, we had the support of all the leadership. that continues today. we think the president can offer

an executive order. what the legislation means, it's a commission to study slavery and develop proposals. over this weekend, i had a lot of time to speak to americans. i was where general granger made the number three order to announce freedom to people who were in shock when they heard the words, having lived through such a brutal time. it's important for america to know that slaves built the economy. they made cotton king. they made the money that went from the land itself to the wall street banks. they created the slave trade. there was no structure of employment. there was nothing for the slaves to pass down to their progeny. what this does, it talks about the disparity that connects from slavery. unless america understands this is about healing and repair, we

can't bring america together. we can't stop replacement theory racism because they don't understand what slavery meant to america. juneteenth is a channel for america to talk about slavery and to talk about it without intimidation and without anguish. that's what i think is so positive about both initiatives. host: the congresswoman from texas on state of the union. our conversation is coming up in just a few minutes. we have a couple of calls about the significance of juneteenth. mary is in missouri. what is on your mind? caller: i watched the republicans and democrats, i listen to them on television and how they have these opinions.

i'm listening to what they are saying. i have a couple of comments. this january 6 commission, one of the questions in my mind is why did they need a producer for those videos? is it that tampering with evidence, if the videos are evidence? this thing about how trump wanted to be a dictator, if trump wanted to be a dictator, he was the president at the time this went on it. widen he just call in the military and have a coup, a real coup? one other thing about the author, i don't know if he's listening, i want him to keep up what he's doing. he is right. racism in america -- i hear

those people talking about how there is systemic racism, i am a black woman, i have found -- i'm going out. i don't care what's going on. racism is systemic. it is black people being racist against their own. white people do have some. the majority comes from black people on their own people. host: i'm going to go to john in california. caller: i would like to piggyback on that last caller. when i was a kid, my first experience with civil rights was when i went down to avalon park after the l.a. riots. i saw the burned out buildings.

we went to a peace unification rally. you can see the watts towers. i ended up going to bootstrap. we got up in our suits and ties. i worked for 10 years in south-central l.a. my hero in the 60's was malcolm x. i listened to mr. allen. he reminds me of malcolm x. back then, it was desegregation and integration. i think we made a strong stride in desegregation. magic johnson owns the dodgers. you've got football teams with lack coaches. there's been tremendous strides made in desegregation. i think what he's talking about is integration.

there is a lack of integration right now as i see it. the main thing i can point to is joe biden saying you're not lack enough unless you vote for me. he garnered 90% of the black vote, which is racist. host: we are going to take a short rake. when we come back, peniel joseph from the university of texas will join us to talk about the history of juneteenth and the significance of it being recognized as a federal holiday for the first time today. >> c-span has unfiltered coverage of the house committee hearings investigating the attack on the capital. go to c-span.org, our web resource page to watch the latest videos of the hearings.

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every purchase helps support our operation. >> c-span has unfiltered coverage of the response to russia's invasion of ukraine, bringing the latest from the president and other officials. we also have international perspectives from the united nations and statements from foreign leaders, all on the c-span networks. our web resource page where you can watch the latest videos on demand and follow tweets from journalists on the ground. >> washington journal continues. host: peniel joseph is joining us, the director for the center for studies of race and democracy at the university of texas.

he is the author of the third reconstruction, the struggle for racial justice in the 21st century. what happened on juneteenth? guest: juneteenth is really the day in 1865 when in galveston, the community of black people there heard the news. order number three was three parts. racial slavery is over. african-americans should do work contracts on the plantations or wherever they are. to remain at the places they are. to not go to the military encampment. black people only listened to the first part. it's really less of a story about black people, the to hunt

50,000 in texas who were toiling on plantations. many had been moved from louisiana during the civil war. the last battle of the civil war outside rounds bill in may 1865. the way we tell the story disempowers black people. they finally heard the news. there is a popular misconception that the emancipation proclamation in 1863 freed black people. it did not. it's an order that impacts the confederacy. there is no general emancipation where most black people are. there are black people who escaped from southern areas and became contraband.

they provide information for the military victory alongside 180,000 black men and women. they served on the front lines. juneteenth is the second american founding. it's where the country stars to become the multiracial democracy that we are today. it sets up a new origin story of democracy. if we have 1776 and thomas jefferson, juneteenth is really the answer to what frederick douglass had questioned in new york, what is the fourth of july? how could you have an independence holiday during antebellum slavery with the exploitation of black folks, the assault, the murder, the rape, the building of capitalism on

the backs of black people that occurred during that time until 1865. host: what happened after 1863 that leads up to order number three in 1865? guest: it's really the civil war. there is no ending of racial slavery. technically, the ratification of the 13th amendment, which ends racial slavery. we end racial slavery, soon after we start the system that is going to lead to mass incarceration in the 20th and 21st centuries. that's why what's so interesting, the civil war which

sometimes people don't want to talk about or they call it a war between states. it's a war about the emancipation of slavery. that's the key to the whole thing. the only way emancipation could happen is through the deceit -- defeat and surrender of the confederacy. that's what happens. appomattox courthouse in virginia, robert e. lee surrenders to ulysses s grant. at the time, we know how the story played out. at the time, although lincoln had been assassinated in april, people are unsure what's going to happen. there are republicans in congress led by thaddeus stevens

who want to expropriate land for the newly freed women and men who want to punish the south, who want to imprison confederate traders who committed treason. all of that does not happen. at the time, it's limbo. it's a space where anything is possible. for a few years, that's going to be true. we are going to see the rise of lack wealth, dignity. a renewed united states south. host: when was juneteenth first celebrated and how? guest: it was first celebrated the next year in galveston in

1866, and other parts of texas. it's a jubilee day. food, parades, barbecues. there's a tradition of having red colored food, that's connected to west actor -- africa. red is the color that speaks of the resiliency of black people. when we think about the first celebration, in places like east texas and houston, black people are going to get together, freed black people and by what is now known as emancipation park, so they could celebrate juneteenth. host: what is the significance of it being recognized as a

federal holiday today, this monday. it fell on a sunday yesterday. guest: it's extraordinarily significant on its own and because of what's happening presently in our country. the singular significance is it's the only american holiday that recognizes racial slavery. the fact it racial slavery is key to the united states and american capitalism, american democracy, the wealth that was created here. also systems of inequality and liberation. on its own, it's massively important recognition. against the backdrop of 2020 and the murder of george floyd and breonna taylor, the protests, now with the january 6 hearings and the anti-critical race

theory legislation that has essentially band the teaching of history behind juneteenth, it's more important than ever that we have this federal recognition that forces and compels and inspires millions of people to reckon with the legacy of juneteenth, the legacy of racial slavery and the afterlife of racial slavery in our own time. we've all experienced at the last two years. since may of 2020, the death of george floyd, the whole country has experienced this reckoning with racial slavery and systemic racism that is central to juneteenth. host: we want to invite our viewers to join in.

for those celebrations as well, tell us how you celebrate. eastern and central part of the country, (202) 748-8000. mountain pacific, (202) 748-8001 . i want to show our viewers what the president had to say last year before he made it a federal holiday. >> this is a really important moment in our history. by making juneteenth a federal holiday, all can feel the power of this day and learn from it and celebrate progress and grapple with the distance we've come and the distance we still have to travel. a few weeks ago, great nations don't ignore their most painful moments.

great nations don't ignore the most painful moments. they don't ignore those moments from the past. they embrace them. great nations don't walk away. we come to terms with the mistakes we made. remembering those moments, we begin to heal. the truth is it's not simply enough to commemorate juneteenth. after all, emancipation of enslaved americans didn't mark the end of our work to deliver on the promise of equality. it marked the beginning. host: when you listen to the president, what stands out to you? guest: i think the line about great nations confronting the most painful parts of their history is very important. i think about germany and its

awful history of genocide against jews during world war ii. what they've done is confront that legacy. they've done the opposite of what we've done. they don't monuments to nazis all around their environment. quite the opposite. they don't try to -- they try to confront what happened and realized they were wrong politically and they vowed to never let that happen. the reason juneteenth is so important, we live in a country that acts as if racial slavery never happened, that the racial caste system that slavery creates and embeds and amplifies

never existed. the politics of dehumanization against black people that allowed slavery to persist did not exist. we are to use to embracing big lies. it's not just the big lie of donald trump and the gop of the 21st century. it's the big lie of american democracy. there is no united states of america without the backbreaking labor that black people did. the fact that black bodies were monetized by wall street, they were monetized in the caribbean. they were monetized throughout the united states and globally. unless we can admit that, we've got to teach that. that was part of the lesson of the 1619 project, the new origin story.

that was partially embraced and inspired a backlash that still wants us to be afraid of this history. despite being afraid of that history that we found ourselves in the political divisions that we continue to have. they continue to persist in america. host: anna, you are up first. good morning to you. caller: thank you for this. yesterday, i wanted to talk about juneteenth. it just didn't happen. i am 73 years old. i grew up in east texas. east texas was one of those places where juneteenth was celebrated. the state of texas was going out of business.

they were getting ready to be bankrupt. the two years going on, blacks couldn't get out. they couldn't get out of texas. then you had jim billy's brother. he would go into freed states and tell people they had good jobs in texas. you didn't have newspapers going around saying we are all free. that did not happen. what we came up with is juneteenth was celebrated with families. they would farm the land up until noon. they would go home and take the

kids, everybody. we had as kids growing up the best time of our lives. we didn't celebrate the fourth of july because it wasn't about us. juneteenth was about us texans. when you talk about juneteenth, people talk about juneteenth. they don't really know what juneteenth really was for lacks in texas. sharecropping, we owned our land for 150 years. we are still on it. in longview, texas, we don't get rid of our land like that. these blacks didn't know what was going on -- we did know what was going on. the history of juneteenth when they come on these channels.

we celebrated juneteenth as long as i've been alive for 73 years. it was about family. host: can i ask you, do you remember as a kid and over the years what the conversation was like around the significance of this day? caller: yes. they taught us to respect who we are. and what people have given up. that was part of our need history. that was taught by a gentleman, ned williams. he was mentored by frederick douglass and george washington carver. he had no education. he learned to read on the sharecroppers. he rot back to ned williams the

education. and what was important to us. poll tax receipts. voting. right now, people talk about reparations. i don't care about reparations. i care about our kids learning to vote and their rights. the man before you, he did make a statement about we need to do better and not let the government take care of us. we don't vote. in texas, it's the worst voting area. what used to be some of the best voting. i have to disagree with sheila jackson lee. host: hold on the line. do you have any questions? guest: i think the idea of

family, she talks about her family growing up. she talks about growing up in texas and her memories of making food with the family, having the discussion with the family. i think family is hugely important when we think about juneteenth and emancipation date. in texas, it's especially important. i live in texas now. black texans have not gotten there do in terms of the history of civil rights and american history. whether we talk about freedom towns in texas from the 19th century, all the way through the civil rights era. it's not just in big cities. in rural areas, deep rural

areas, washington county, other parts of texas were very instrumental from slavery and reconstruction all the way to the present. they expanded our boundaries of citizenship and dignity. host: how do you feel about reparations? guest: i support reparations. i think for those of us who have been privileged enough to study american history and black history, that's hugely key. voting rights are important. i agree with the last caller on that. what reparations provides a context for the economic power that black people have had stolen from them. part of the darkside of this history that president biden

alluded to is the fact that black labor and wealth was stolen multiple times since 1776. it's both during slavery from 1776 to 1865 and 1865 all the way until the late 1960's. you have a system of theft of black economic power. that comes in the form of mass incarceration to the theft of land. two residential and public school segregation to the second world war. half a million less african-americans are allowed to be inducted into the military than their proportionate numbers

would suggest. so many people didn't get access to the g.i. bill or federal loans for homes. it's extraordinary what happened to black people, not just over the last 150 years but since the birth of the united states. the only weight when we think about providing economic parity would be through reparations physically by they called for reparations in the 21st century. i would suggest everybody read it. it's extraordinary book, it's very important. when we think about reparations, we have to think about it in multiple ways. federal, state, local.

we need right now for proportional representation for black people across not just corporate america but also in terms of venture capital, private equity, hedge funds. we are not 12% of that. we are not 12% of the wealth being made. i'm talking wealth and not just incomes. until we get to that 12% in the boardroom, not just the nonprofit boardrooms, but all boardroom spaces. corporate america, venture capital, higher education, being 12% of the startups that they actually fund. that means we would be better represented among the unicorns. we have a lot of work to do. it's a both.

we should protect and amplify voting rights. we need reparations. the deeper you study this time, some of us have the luxury of doing this for a lifetime and for living. host: good morning to you. caller: good morning. i wanted to get his first name so i could follow his writing. i'm really impressed by your guest this morning. host: peniel joseph at the university of texas austin. caller: peniel joseph? guest: it's a biblical name. genesis 31 is where jacob wrestles with the angel all night.

it's a big time patient name. i am a proud haitian immigrant. i'm a native new yorker. caller: speaking of haiti, this get to the comment i will make. i really appreciate your nuanced understanding. you are going to have this. i am from western european descent. for me, it's more challenging to really get in the shoes of the person who is descended from slavery. to understand the economics of it. i think that's critical. i applaud your understanding. it's helping me to understand it. that comes with some redbaiting. if you say the words political economy, people want to call you associate -- socialist.

that's wave disguising racism. guest: what is so interesting about what you just said, harvard university released a report, their relationship with slavery. it's a report that shows them trying to do some repair. it talks about the university being implicated in only black people. some of their biggest funders were people who were slave traders and made their money not only in the domestic slave trade, the brutal caribbean slave trade in jamaica and cuba and haiti and other places. it is so interesting. we think about this idea of reparations and you have political economy. we haven't wanted to face dass i

think -- i think this is a global problem. france has their problem england has their own version of this. but we haven't wented to say is slavery is what provides us with the iphone. it provides us with zoom. it provides us with a 401k. the way in which the world was able to build wealth so quickly during modernity is one hunter percent connected to slavery. it's connected to slavery not just the exploitation of 4 million african-americans in the united states. it's connected to the way in which different financial interests utilized slavery as a

system to monetize. just like we short stocks today and we invest in certain parts of the economy, people used in slave people for that. these are all facts. this is not interpretation. we have to understand that. if we want to reckon with slavery, brown university has done it. georgetown has done it. we have to look at every single facet of our society. investment companies, so many places we think of just the blue-chip investment company, they get their start globally being connected to a network and system of slavery. a great book is empire of cotton.

river of dark dreams by walter johnson. the pound of flesh. there is so much. there is so much here to explore. i think people should try to understand. this is our history. we can't think of this as them. this is us. i think dr. king was great in this when he talked about revolution of values. near the end of his life, he talked about reconstruction. malcolm x talked about these things. he was talking about truth, justice, then reconciliation. we can't get there unless we confront this painful part of our history. host: you mentioned harvard university and what they are trying to do.

in 2021, they had $53 billion in endowment. are they paying reparations? guest: they are setting aside money, they are trying to engage in repair. they have vowed to set aside $100 million to try and repair what was done, including making new coalitions and collaborations. they are not the only school that needs to do this. i teach at the university of texas, which has a history with racism. it was founded in 1883 and it was a segregated school. what do we do for the black test and's -- texans who for decades and decades were disallowed from becoming longhorns. what do we do with that? we need to repair that. it's not just a repair, we will

all pray together. i will pray with you. we need to have economic resources. money and finances are huge part of this. so much wealth was stolen and taken away from african-americans. there was a narrative that gas lit the entire nation by saying black people who worked the hardest the longest for the least were lazy, were criminals, were bad people. it's important to face all that. we have to face that together. harvard is trying to do some repair. they might not be calling it reparations. they are trying to do some repair for their being implicated in racial slavery. host: we will go to kentucky. it morning. caller: thank you.

it sounds like you read a lot of books. the one you said you never read is the bible. the bible says when someone steals from you, you need to forgive them. i don't know if you are to do that. i don't think it was directly stolen from you. what about the money you want for reparations, who is that going to be stolen from? do you know what slavery is? it's when others take away your god-given rights. that was totally done to the blacks. slavery is stealing from you that you force to pay for something else. that is slavery.

that is stealing. stealing the slavery. that's all we do in this country. we forcefully steal and give it to others. we want to give it to who we think should have it more than you. host: can you respond? guest: in terms of biblical interpretation, there are parts of the bible to talk about forgiveness, even when you go to the new testament and you look at jesus in the temple of the moneylenders, he is ringing the sword and the shield in terms of trying to move out exploitation. he wants a reckoning. when we read about the apostles and their recollections of jesus, he was a prophet of transformation who brought the

world to its knees because he is so interested in justice and reparations for those who been left behind. it depends on how we are going to interpret that. i do believe in forgiveness. you cannot have forgiveness without truth and justice. a lot of this is in public. when we think about that justice, we have to come to some kind of financial repair for all that's been stolen. just because things were stolen, we can't say or were going to have reparations and that will be stolen in the future. we have some kind of policy for safeguards. state and local municipalities are engaged in discussions about reparations.

the theft and brutality occurred at the level of the intimate and the expanse. host: let's hear from pat in texas. caller: good morning. you do have your firm beliefs. i'm sorry, i have to agree with the professor that was on this morning. i'm not a deep thinker. i do think slavery was horrible. it will always be horrible. i do have a question. if this is such a systemic racist country, where millions trying to get in across our border right now. why aren't millions trying to leave? guest: i think one of the things

we have to understand when we think about the story of america is our country has never been one thing. the country is also offering opportunity and unbelievable transformational opportunity for millions of people. those things can exist at the same time. the country is homophobic and trans-phobic, it is deeply misogynist and sexist against women. at the same time, women and queer folks will find unbelievable opportunity here. we are a rainbow. we are multiracial democracy. it's been called a teaming nation. we've always been multiple things all at once. sometimes, very positively, sometimes to our detriment. saying the united states is a systemically racist country does

not mean that people are saying it is a bad country or one thing or the other. we have to be able to be critical enough thinkers, this is why education is important. lifelong education. i'm a big believer in people being self-taught learners, people like malcolm x, people who taught themselves. we have to understand the greatest act of patriotism is to criticize the country you love and you are from. i am from the united states. i was born and raised in new york city. i love this country. i criticize this country. i am honest enough to talk about the good parts and the ugly and tragic parts. that's what troop patriotism is. patriotism is not saying everything is fine while the car heads off a cliff and you kill

your whole family in the car. it is saying there is a cliff, let's stop the car, let's look at the map and get these kids to safety. that is patriotism. host: peniel joseph is the director at the center of race and democracy at the university of texas austin. you can follow him on twitter. we thank you for the conversation this morning. guest: thank you. i enjoyed it. host: we will be back tomorrow morning at 7:00. enjoy your day.

quite just today mark the juneteenth holiday, which commemorates the emancipation of enslaved africans. juneteenth is the anniversary of when the union army troops marched into galveston on june 19, 1865 proclaiming freedom for enslaved people. in june 2021, president biden signed the independence day act. it is the first federal holiday created since 19 -- 1983 when martin luther king junior day was connected. the federal government is closed in honor of the holiday. the january 6 committee enter stage for of public hearings as they gather evidence. watch the hearing live tuesday at 1:00 eastern on c-span three, c-span now our mobile video out, or online at c-span.org. can also visit c-span.org/january 6 to watch

hearings and other videos related to that day. c-span your unfiltered view of , government. >> the senate returns tuesday at three clock p.m. eastern, they are expected to take up bipartisan gun legislation if an agreement is reached. they also plan to vote later, on president biden's nominee for the bureau of alcohol, firearms and explosives. lawmakers will vote on legislation expanding health care and disability health care benefits for veterans exposed to toxic chemicals. also the ability to create active shooter alerts nationwide. also on our free video app, c-span now, or online at c-span.org.

♪ >> announcer: c-span is your unfiltered view of government. funded by these television companies and more, --including comcast. >> you think this was just a community center? no, it is way more than that. >> comcast is partnering with 1,000 community centers to create wi-fi enabled centers for students of low income families to have the tools they need to get ready for anything. announcer: comcast supports c-span as a public service, along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> this morning is william b allen, the editor of the state of black america and a resident scholar at the center for urban renewal and education. let's begin with the organization, the center for urban renewal and education. remind us what it is, your mission and who funds you. guest: the