conversation on this week's nato summit and the russia-ukraine conflict, and later, reporter david shepardson talks about the u.s. airline industry and recent flight delays and cancellations. join th conversation with your calls, texts and tweets. >> the reality we face today as republicans as we think about the choice in front of us, we have to choose, because republicans cannot both be loyal to donald trump and to the constitution. ♪ host: this is the washington journal for june 30. in a speech at the reagan library, wyoming republican liz cheney called on her party to cut ties with former president donald trump as representative cheney serves as the vice chair of the january 6 committee. in our first hour, we invite members of the republican party to call in and let us know what

you think of the current role and influence president has on the gop. here's is how you can let us know. republicans only. in the eastern and central time zones, it is (202) 748-8000. mountain and pacific time zones, it is (202) 748-8001. text if you wish at (202) 748-8003. you can post on facebook and twitter and follow the show on instagram. axios picks up the speech that representative cheney made at the reagan library last night, saying -- she said wednesday, it has become clear, from what the january 6 committee has learned, the former president's alleged efforts to overturn the election work more chilling and threatening -- the election work more chilling and threatening than imagined, attempting to unravel the foundation of our republic. there was also during that

speech, in the context of what she said there, that she called for a separation of sorts of the republican party from president trump. you can find the speech online on our c-span now app. here's a portion from representative liz cheney from last night. [video clip] >> i'm a conservative republican and believe deeply in the policies of limited government, low taxes, a strong national defense. i believe the family is the center of our community and our lives and i believe those are the right policies for our nation, but i also know that in this moment we are confronting a domestic threat we have never faced before. that is a former president who is attempting to unravel the foundations of our constitutional republic. and he's aided by republican leaders and elected officials who made themselves willing hostages to this dangerous and irrational man.

some in my party are embracing former president from. and even after all we have seen, they are enabling his lies. many others are urging that we not confront donald trump, that we look away, and that is certainly the easier path. one need only look at the threats that are facing the witnesses who have come before the january 6 committee to understand the nature and magnitude of that threat. to argue that the threat posed by donald trump can be ignored is to cast aside the responsibility every citizen bears to perpetuate the republic. we must not do that and we cannot do that. ronald reagan said it is up to us in our time to choose and to choose wisely between the hard but necessary task of preserving peace and freedom and the tim tatian to ignore our duty and blindly hope -- the temptation

to them nor our duty and blindly hope while the threats grow every day. no people or nation can defend and perpetuate a constitutional republic if they accept a leader who has gone to war with the rule of law, with the democratic process, or with the peaceful transition of power, with the constitution itself. host: that speech available on our website at c-span.org and on c-span now. for republicans only in the audience, in light of what representative cheney had to say, what do you think of the current role and influence former president trump has on the gop? if you live in the eastern and central time zones, you can call aunt (202) 748-8000 -- call at (202) 748-8000. mountain and pacific, it is (202) 748-8001 mountain and pacific, it is. (202) 748-8001.

a couple of polls in the last couple of days. take a look at former president trump in the context of making another election run and how he would compare to others. morning consul and politico asked the question, if the 2020 for republican primary were held today, who would they support? president at 53%. that matches similar polling in june of this year. the latest polling says that 22% support ron desantis, rising from 16% in june, 13% in march. they asked about mike pence and levels of support for him if the 2024 primary for him or --

him were held. we will show you more portions of the speech as we go along but we want to get your thoughts on the influence the former president has on the current party. tempo -- tampa, florida starts us off. this is tony. caller: i hope and pray that donald trump is not a candidate for president this time. we have many better choices. we have tom cotton, pence, pompeo, desantis, and let's be real, trump spent $8.7 trillion in four years, more than any president ever spent in that amount of time since roosevelt, and he was fighting two world wars. trump enriched himself in the white house, manipulated stock market like nobody ever has -- manipulated the stock market like nobody ever has. he had 36 seats in the house,

enough in the senate, he promised the wall and turned it down. p enabled the aca -- he enabled the aca, something else he promised to get rid of. host: in light of what you said, what do you think about the current hold the president has on the party or the influence he has? caller: i think that's just party ignorance. i really do. i think people don't really read into what this guy was. i mean, the only people that got enriched was his son-in-law with a $2.6 billion equity deal with no experience in equity with the saudis, with mnuchin, 1.6 billion dollars with the on an equity deal, and his daughter, who got all kinds of patents out of china. host: wants to marry in dallas,

texas -- let's go to mary in dallas, texas. caller: it seems like everybody hates trump. they love to hate trump. he had to fight for everything he has done. he didn't take a salary. i am going to say may be our military was cut and he had to build it back up again. so i'm going to say as all you said there and talk about all this and that, maybe you need to look at your president now. host: as far as your support for president trump, how would you describe that and why do you support him still? caller: why do i support him? for one, he's gone through hell, and i feel that.

he did work for the american people. and i said -- four years, all that short time, and i will tell you a. they put him through hell. and i said everybody has the right to vote. and let me talk about liz cheney, who was up there. her state wanted her out. this is her constituents in wyoming. and i said, so that should tell you. so that's all i have to say. host: ok. we will go to dean. gene in kentucky, you are next up. go ahead. caller: i am a vietnam veteran and it is hard for me to vote for donald trump. when i was in vietnam, donald trump was a draft dodger. he would not go fight for his country.

they won our blood and guts while they get rich -- they want our blood and guts while they get rich and it frustrates me. host: let me ask you, dean -- he hung up. we will go to terry in cleveland, tennessee. republicans only in this hour. go ahead. terry in cleveland, tennessee, go ahead. caller: yes. this is terry from tennessee. trump -- if trump don't run, we are in a big world of hurt, because we cannot handle another jimmy carter or joe biden because we are in a deadly world of hurt and i'm proud to say i would vote for him not once but twice. host: let me ask you this. why would you support him again? terry hung up as well.

there was another pole taking a look at supporters for the president among republicans compared to others. fox news has the story, saying a public opinion survey in new hampshire that says florida governor ron desantis with a thin margin over president trump in a hypothetical 2024 gop primary matchup. 39 percent of likely republican primary voters in the granite state would support the first term florida governor. respondents were provided a list of potential contenders for the nomination. this ant's's margin was well within the sampling error -- desantis's margin was well within the sampling error.

tell us about what you think as far as the current hold he has over the gop. eastern and central time zones, (202) 748-8000. mountain and pacific, (202) 748-8001. representative liz cheney making remarks at the reagan library about her thoughts on the current state of the gop, particularly the influence president trump has over it. here's more from that speech. [video clip] >> as the full picture is coming into view with the january 6 committee, it has become clear that the efforts donald trump oversaw and engaged in or even more chilling and threatening than we could've imagined -- in were even more chilling and threatening than we could have

imagined. he attempted to stay in office and prevent the peaceful transfer of presidential power. he summoned a mob to washington. he knew they were armed on january 6. he knew they were angry. he directed the violent mob to march on the capitol in order to delay or prevent completely the counting of electoral votes. he wanted to go with them and, when the violence was underway, refused to take action to tell the rioters to leave. the instilled further violence by tweeting that mike pence was a coward. he said, "mike deserves it." he did not want to do anything in response to the "hang mike pence" chants. it is undeniable and also

painful for republicans to accept and we have to recognize and understand what it means to say those words and what it means that those things happened. the reality that we face today as republicans as we think about the choice in front of us, we have to choose, because republicans cannot both be loyal to donald trump and to the constitution. host: you can pick up the themes that representative cheney made. republicans only in this hour about former president trump, his current influence on the party. columbus, georgia. this is bert. hello. caller: i just listened to that, what liz cheney said, i think she's a liar and a rino, and the things trump did as far as policy goes were good. he had a very good record on his presidency but people don't understand. they go to vote for people and they vote for their personality

or their character or something like that. everybody has got flaws. it is the policy you should vote for. when trump was in there, his policies lead to an america that was in better shape than it was before. now you look at joe biden, his character, he always screams and hollers at the people when he gets up on the podium. his policies are dangerous. they are killing the american economy. they are killing the american people, their prosperity. and i will tell you another thing. host: can i ask you why do you think the president still has -- or do you think the president still has an influence on the current party and why do you think that is? caller: he does still have an influence because of his policy. most people like the policy president trump drew. a lot of people don't like things he might say or actions he might take, but i think the

situation with the media, they are lying about him. what they're doing, they are not playing both sides, just like this committee on january 6. they had that woman up there talking about how donald trump did all this stuff but it was hearsay. if you have a court of law, hearsay will not be able to come into a court of law because they don't allow it. you got to have a first -- you know, the person who viewed it. host: what do you think about representative cheney's call for the party to distance itself from donald trump? caller: i think that's not right, because if you go by representative cheney's policy, you will be in joe biden's country again. she could change parties. she should turn herself into a democrat because that is what she is. in her day, a staunch

republican, a neocon. george bush was a neocon, lied about a rack -- lied about iraq, that they had weapons of mass destruction. host: that's bert in columbus, georgia. let's hear from richard in spring valley, california. hello. caller: i don't understand why, you know, we are worried about trump's character so much, like the last guy just spoke. character and stuff matters, but you need a businessman to run this country, and trump is a straight up businessman, cutthroat businessman. that's what you have to have with world leaders. you cannot have this wishy-washy that we have now. ok? so you can say trump this order

-- trump this or trump that, you can impeach him 10 or 12 times or whatever you like. cheney is upset because she don't like her daddy. host: why do you think he still has influence over the party? caller: because of his policies and what he did for this country. do you understand what he did? do you understand i felt a lot safer on the street i walked down when he was the president than i do now? do you think about that or do you go about your day with, you know -- host: what specific policy would you point to then? caller: i would say every one of them. host: give me a specific. caller: i would do law enforcement, policeman. i don't think we would have been through all that stuff if he were the president. i think we would still be going through it. host: richard in spring valley, california.

representative cheney is running for reelection in her home state of wyoming. newspaper highlights the fact that she is returning to wyoming after that speech yesterday to engage primary challengers, including one supported by president trump. this ap story says cheney will likely draw criticism in thursday's televised debate for investigating the former president's effort to overturn the 2000 20 election and encouragement of the january 6 insurrection at the u.s. capitol. that primary challenger putting out a statement yesterday, saying maybe she didn't learn the definition of irony at the virginia high school she attended. liz cheney should be the last person to be giving lectures about the future of the party when she is trying to burn it to the ground. cheney is using wyoming's only house seat to further her own personal war on president trump while helping nancy pelosi and

the democrats achieve their own political goals. she is doing more to help the future of the democratic party than anything else. in representative cheney's speech, she talked about the current state of the party and the influence former president trump has on it. we are asking you about what influence he has on the current party. connie in illinois, good morning. hello. caller: good morning, everyone. most of what cheney just said in the speech that she gave was half-truth. she left out all the good parts that trump said and donald trump stood up for america. he stood up for red, white, blue america and all the people that are americans. he's the first president i saw

stand up for whites, blacks, browns, and my native americans, and yellow americans, but they are trying to take the man down because he did so good for america. he gave us prosperity that we hadn't seen for decades. and you want to throw all this away because of a bunch of lies? host: when you say bunch of lies, do you mean what representative cheney spoke about as far as what the january 6 committee is investigating? caller: oh, yeah. that's of farce. that's just -- it is not true. the secret service is champing at the bits because they want to testify. do you think that committee is

going to let them testify? thank no way -- ain't no way. host: that is connie in illinois. let's hear from a viewer in arizona, melissa in dewey, arizona. go ahead. your next up. caller: how are you? go ahead. i saw donald trump in new york. i worked there. i was in my 20's. he's the best. he's done more than anyone ever in that dang white house. we need to bring him back period. host: why do you think he has hold or influence over the party? caller: because he is a real man. he tells the truth.

he doesn't back down ever. host: that's melissa in arizona. let's go to monty in spring, texas. caller: yes. i would like to say, as a conservative, very pro-a, very nationalistic person, this colt of leadership -- this cult of worship, which you could hear in the last person's voice. you have heard people say that trump has been anointed by god, something disgusting that no christian would say. i am no fan of joe biden, but then we have to go to trump, who said he would like to take the guns first and then due process.

constitutionally illiterate. i am no fan of biden's energy policy, yet trump repeatedly maintained we were energy independent, which was a lie. being a net energy exporter is not energy independence. we don't produce enough domestic oil -- we produced a mystic oil but we don't convert it to fuel here, people. educate yourselves. host: you make a distinction between conservative and republican. you would not defined donald trump as a conservative the way you see it? guest: it is -- caller: it is a cult of personality. you know these people. they cannot name a single thing he has done and they love everything that comes out of his mouth. let's be honest.

how can you lose money in casinos, selling stakes and selling bottled water? you are not a businessman. you are a salesman. host: if he decided to run again, would you support him or would you want to see somebody else within the party run? caller: i would love to see any one trump labels a rino, like liz cheney or adam kinzinger, debate trump, but the way they are avoiding a platform and debates, this cult has to stop or we will see more power granted to the left. you can either love this man and think he will save the world or wake up and start learning about your constitution because the vice president has no power over a state's chosen electors.

host: that's monty in texas. let's hear from donald in washington state. hello. caller: good morning, pedro. i get to follow the democratic that called in on the republican only one. i don't care. that's great. that is how you roll. i don't think how president trump has a hold on americans. it is americans holding on to him. host: asking specifically about the republican party. caller: it is the americans that consider themselves republicans that have the hold on trump and the administration's policies. i don't think it is the way you word it. if no one liked trump, we wouldn't be talking about him today. if we didn't enjoy the policies that made america first, he would be long gone. no one would be talking about him. you want a list of policies? how long do you have?

host: what is your top one? caller: we could go with quite a few. my favorite is going to be america first, pedro, and everything that came after it. host: that is a slogan. what policy would connect to that? caller: let's see. do you really have the time? are you going to cut me off? host: give me the top one and i will let you say it. go ahead. caller: how about unemployment, the new jobs created? we had all different creeds and colors and genders of people -- women, men that had all kinds of unemployment, good money, food stamps. all that stuff was not down. why? money was worth something and people had pride. host: that's donald in washington state talking about the influence the former president has on the party,

giving specifics as far as why he thinks that is. you can do the same calling on the lines for the eastern and central time zones, (202) 748-8000, and the mountain and pacific time zones, (202) 748-8001. you can post on facebook and twitter as these conversations go on separate from the show and text comments to (202) 748-8003. let's go to kenneth, kenneth in missouri. hello. caller: good morning, america. well, a lot of these people coming in, you know, you say you cannot give an example? i will give you an example. he tried to control the border. we had the lowest gas prices of any president in the last 50 years under trump, the lowest unemployment before covid under trump. these people that are calling in, a lot of them are democrats. as far as liz cheney goes, she's

gonna lose. she's always hated trump because trump and her father didn't get along, so she's just being vindictive. and this panel is one-sided. the woman that testified the other day, it has already come out that she lied. and if he has lied, then they need to bring these two servicemen in and counter her lies and she should be persecuted for lying under oath. host: we will go back to the president for a second. you listed specific policies. do you think that's the main reason the president has a hold or at least an influence on the party today or is there a reason other than policy? caller: didn't you show the polls to begin with? doesn't that into your question?

i would vote for him again and hope he could control the border. [video clip] this is a symbol. you have got to win otherwise it will be a terrible thing for our country and it is not just the one vote because i think the republicans will have a tremendous midterm, especially in the house. so it is not so much as the vote

raising one hand. it is really the symbol of what you represent. he represents despicable things. this select committee has turned the house of representatives into an instrument of political torment and repression. you know that. you see that every night. people come out of the witness booth and they will say, the worst of all, the people, and you have some really bad people out there. the worst person of always liz cheney. these people are like you. they represent your interests. at the same time, she's helping to cover up and do numbers on the disturbing questions and videos. you take a look at what they are doing with -- we want to see the videos. we want the real videos not just every time they give us a certain video from a certain little -- we want the real videos. we want to really know what happened and, more importantly,

what happened to the election itself? host: speaking of that race with liz cheney in wyoming, the tribune talks about where the polling stands. there was a poll conducted by a political action committee in the business of unseating liz cheney finding her a -- finding her opponent leads her by 10 points. those numbers could change well before the primary in november. the president's influence on the party, your reasoning, thinking, for tellis -- thinking, or tell us why you don't think he has an influence on the party. hello.

richard in gillette. hello. caller: yeah. his influence -- can you hear me now? host: you are on. you are on. go ahead please. caller: yes. the things president trump has done for the united states, torn families apart. families at thanksgiving, churches, wherever you find them, they fight. he's done that. they won't even talk to each other. the sky -- this guy, he took advantage of some very, well, good people, pointing them in the wrong direction. host: what do you think of your representative, liz cheney? what do you think of liz cheney? caller: she will always have my

vote. yeah. she's a spot on. she sees the hate out there. these people -- i see them. you know, they foam and the mouth -- foam at the mouth. they don't want to talk because they probably don't even know how to have a public conversation. they just scream. even on your show, all the shows, you know, there's a serious problem upstairs in these people's minds. host: that is richard in wyoming. in virginia, this is lucy. hello. caller: hi. i voted for trump for jesus and it -- for trump twice and it scares me the amount of influence he has on so many of the republican politicians. i am someone who -- i don't

understand the whole concept of, if you are a republican, then republicans can do no wrong and democrats cannot do right, and i feel like no one owns right or wrong. i mean, both parties do a lot of both. but even though i voted for trump, i feel like he just has, still has, so many people, you know, that like him, that our current politicians, a lot of them, are just agreeing with him because there's a political -- they do not want to be hurt by not agreeing with him. host: lucy, if i may ask, in light of what you are saying, what motivated you to vote for the president not only as --

not only the first time but the second? caller: i am retired. i am old. i have been a republican all my life. i think it is because i have an accounting and finance background, education. so i usually always vote, especially in the presidential election, on those topics. and trump was running. and i voted for him. many people i knew said we will hold our noses and vote for him. i did not like him as a person for years, just in the news. not on politics. but, i mean, he was running and i think on a lot of things, the border, economy, military, those issues i totally approve of and i was glad he was in office.

it was his constant attacks on anyone who spoke negatively about him and sometimes it was not just negative. someone just gave an opinion and he didn't agree with it and immediately he branded them as idiots and, you know, he had a whole lot of words, and i can understand him wanting to use his platform to get out his own story, because he was being so viciously attacked. host: if i may ask, if he made another run in 2024, would you like to see them do it again or another republican? caller: i would be afraid of him running again. i pray another republican will be able to run. i honestly don't know because biden is a nightmare and his

policies are even more of a nightmare than he is but i totally changed about trump. almost immediately after the election -- the way he was acting, what he was saying, at a time when the country needed to hear calm, it was ok that he was bringing things up and wanted them investigated, but in the way he did it, it was so inflammatory without showing any evidence that they would speak of. host: gotcha. thank you for the call. some other callers. this is from shalimar, florida. we will hear from jesse. jesse, hello. caller: hello.

i am a 100% republican and that means i support the republican issues, and i want to say to my fellow republicans, if you support the republican issues, you better not support donald trump, because the best way for us to continue through the disaster we have -- to continue the disaster we have now is to run donald trump against any democrat, including joe biden. we almost have to get away from trump. trump has lost touch with reality. he is no longer able to support the issues that we believe in. he only believes in trump. he doesn't believe in the issues that the republicans who are like me support. host: issues like what, if i may ask? caller: well, i support almost everything that -- i think you did a great job pushing the

vaccine. joe biden claims credit for the vaccine but it was trump that did that. i think his policies on the border were in line with my policies on the border. i'm a former small business owner. certainly his policies toward business was -- you know, that is the same thing i believe in. almost everything, the issues he brought on, i believe in those. i supported those for years. but i don't believe in trump. i mean, right now, i see a man who is just -- i mean, i'm not talking about the january 6 committee. i'm talking about his actions since the election, his actions since the election have been those of someone who is out of touch with reality. you cannot believe what he believes. host: that is jesse in florida giving us a call again on his personal perspective on president trump's influence on the republican party. we are asking the same for the

remainder of this time, about 20 minutes. you can call in, in the eastern and central time zones, (202) 748-8000, mountain and pacific, (202) 748-8001, if you want to let us know what you think. you can still watch the speech made by representative liz cheney on the c-span website. another floridian, this is henrietta in fort pierce. hello. caller: good morning. i don't know donald trump. that's why i don't care about his personality. he's the guy who makes me as an american prosperous. that's what happened during the trump reign. prosperity broke out, respect for our country broke out, and now we have note -- we have

none of that. conservatives got bush. you know, george bush was really well-liked and look what he brought us, $7 trillion in horrible war debt. he brought us broken and h urt men? because he didn't like what was going on in the middle east. this is not the kind of leader we want. we want somebody like donald trump who gave us prosperity. host: you want donald trump to run again or would you see another republican running for 2024? caller: well, i live in florida and i don't want desantis to run. why? because i love him as a governor and honestly i will vote for him as a governor but i will not

vote for him as president. i want donald trump because he's done a fabulous job for this country. everything else is what they call palace intrigue. let's look at his personality. unless he asked me for lunch, i'm not going to bother with his personality. host: that's henrietta in florida. she's talking about her governor, ron desantis. it was he that made a speech before the jewish leadership confidence in new york city earlier this month. you can hear the his -- you can hear his remarks. [video clip] >> i think this wokeness is a cancer that will destroy this country if it gets more of a foothold than it has already. you can have differences in political judgment. i look at a liberal from 40 years ago and would say they are wrong on taxes, on crime,

welfare, some of those things, and i think i'm right about that and i think they were wrong, but those are issues we can have differences of opinion. you can argue those and come to some resolution on them, but if they have an ideology that tells me or expects me to believe that a man can get pregnant and some of the other ridiculous things you see coming out of this movement, that doesn't work for me, so -- so what we did in florida is i signed legislation called stopping wrongs against our kids and employees act, and what that does is it enables parents to make sure the schools are following state standards when it comes to some of the woke ideology more and more in the curriculum. i guess in new york it has probably taken over the curriculum.

in florida, we are working on keeping us focused on education. so you are able to now have recourse. but we also wanted to provide recourse to employees of these major corporations forced to undergo these ridiculous -- they call them trainings that i think are racially discriminatory so we now give them protection against some of that. the steps we have taken i don't think anyone could think that florida is a place where we want this to be the governing ethos of our state. i think that's important because there's not a single jurisdiction that's gone woke on any one of these issues -- school closures, crime -- that has exceeded. the quality of life has dramatically diminished and society itself starts to decay. i think the woke ideology is a form of cultural marxism. they are tearing at the fabric

of our society. they want to our race our history. that is why they want to take down statues of teddy roosevelt and thomas jefferson and abraham lincoln. all these things to demonize the founding principles of our country and basically impose their ideology as the foundational governing principles of our society and we will not let that happen in florida. host: we will continue on with our calls on president trump's influence over the republican party. a couple things to watch out for in washington today. the supreme court expected to hand down decisions on the environment and immigration. also, a review of the 2020 1-2022 term of the court at the american constitutional society on c-span at 1:00 and c-span now and c-span.org. also, the retirement of justice

stephen breyer today expected to take place around noon, serving on the court since 1994. with that, the latest member on the court, judge ketanji jackson brown, will be sworn in today. a lot of things concerning supreme court. watch out for them today. let's hear from nancy, who joins us from michigan. go ahead. thanks for waiting. caller: thanks for taking my call. i have always been a fan of donald trump. i think in michigan we probably went to about eight of his rallies and they were so peaceful, so full of enthusiasm, but very peaceful large crowds. i don't want don to run again because i'm afraid for him. i am afraid for this country if he runs again because we will

spend -- the democrats will spend their whole time trying to tear him down. we will be tied up in this and that and we will get zero done in this country. he is a wonderful man. he took the republican party and took the rinos out of it and made us fight for our party and our values and i will always be grateful for him and history, when we go back in history, he will be proven as a very good man. host: what do you think of the calls, even including representative cheney yesterday, to have the party separate from donald trump? caller: he's the best thing for the republican party. she will be gone. she's gone in a few months. who cares about her anymore? i mean, liz cheney is not significant at all. she will be out of the republican party in a few months. and that's going to be the end of it.

and again, i personally believe ron desantis -- i hope he runs into thousand 24. he is what we need, a continuation of trump for 2024 and i hope trump has a good life. he brought a lot to this country. he made us proud and he did a lot for the nation of israel. i'm not jewish but i am so grateful for what he did to the nation of israel. host: this nancy in michigan. when it comes to the january 6 committee, you can see a re-air of the latest hearing at 9:00 tonight. because, as a result of that, there are new subpoenas going out, according to the near times, including for pat cipollone. accompanying the subpoena, leaders of the committee say

they are seeking testimony because committee members needed to hear from him on the record as other former white house councils have done in front of previous congressional committees. republican liz cheney said in a statement. and a lawyer familiar with the deliberations not authorized to speak on the record said a subpoena was needed before they could consider transcribed testimony before the committee and mr. cipollone would now evaluate matters of privilege as appropriate. the role and influence of president trump on the gop, representative liz cheney calling for a distancing of that influence in a speech at the reagan library. dave in florida, hello. caller: there is nothing more american than the january 6 commission. in fact, just the fact it exists

is one thing that makes us uniquely american and i suggest that all those republicans who hate liz cheney and are more loyal to trump than they are to the constitution, the kind of people who would throw america and their own mother overboard if trump -- you know, the god who told us over 60,000 lies -- the guy who told us over 60,000 lies in office, they are willing to throw this country and 240 years of representative democracy overboard. the truth is they are simply in the wrong country. they need to move to russia, egypt, iran, or some country with a straw man that has a political system that's more compatible -- with a strong man that has a political system that's more compatible with their ideology. host: what republican would you

support? caller: i would support liz cheney because she has character. she is willing to stand up to the slings and arrows, all the smears that trump can come up with and his deplorables can throw at her and do the right thing. it is bad that there are so few republicans in the country these days willing to do the right thing. host: let's go to dan in kentucky. you are next up. go ahead. caller: thank you. hearing him -- he is a mover and a shaker and he got things done. when henrietta in florida said she don't want ron desantis running, when you've got somebody good like that for a state you don't want them to leave, but i do think trump would still be good and, like

the lady in michigan, she's worried about him getting assassinated or something. host: why do you think president trump still has a role in the current gop? caller: he is a mover and a shaker. he gets things done. he had to fight the republican party, the democratic party, the media, and all the time, he was under investigation, doing this and that, trying to get the wall built and they fought him on that forever and he still got a whole lot done, more than the last three or four presidents. i was telling somebody the other day, i said, you know, i think people probably be one of the best presidents of the 21st century. i thought obama was going to be the worst but i see joe biden will be the worst. host: we had a call saying the

president's influence was due to a cult of personality. what do you think about that? caller: who cares about personality, like the lady said, unless i am having lunch with him? host: ok, from mike, joining us from pennsylvania in montrose. go ahead. caller: how are you doing? host: i am well. thanks. caller: i hear you talking about judges. ok, if judges were legit end if people would open their eyes, ok, both parties are guilty of treason because when they let president trump go one-on-one with the russian leader and they came out laughing and shaking hands, no witnesses, no recordings, and then he met with the china leader. host: let's stick with the topic at hand. are you a republican? caller: i am 4 -- host: are you a republican?

caller: i am between both. host: we will go to richard in springfield, oregon. go ahead. caller: good morning. the main thing -- hello? host: you are on. one more time in oregon, hello. caller: he was for the common man. host: richard, i'm sorry. i think your signal is breaking up. let's give you one more shot at it. richard from oregon. i apologize for that. let's go to maryland in sykesville. hello. caller: good morning. i was one of the few that was optimistic at first when trump became president. i hoped that -- he said a lot of

crazy things but i believe that once he became president his tone would change and he would try to bring the country together but it became apparent as the years went by that he did not care about that. there was almost like he will always invoke the worst in us and it got to a point, for me -- i mean, i am from africa and i know what is -- what it is like. politicians in africa when they are trying to win, they will do and say anything, and that is exactly how it felt through the trump years, and there will come a time where you're like, is this so-called prosperity we claim, that we have enjoyed during his reign so good that we won't care about the country as a whole? then the insurrection happened. i honestly cannot imagine how anybody won't understand that this country being together is more important than any other thing, and that is why i hope

the party comes up with another candidate. the idea that trump will still have this amount of power and influence over the party is crazy. it makes no sense. host: as far as another candidate, which would you like to see amongst the republican party? caller: i think desantis is going to be a trump 2.0. if romney could run again, that would be a perfect person to bring the party together, but not someone from the far right and definitely not the far left. we need somebody to bring this country back to the center. we need that desperately. host: next in athens, georgia, hello. caller: nikki haley in 2024. nikki haley. pedro, you are doing a great job talking to these republicans. host: are you a republican?

caller: i am proud to call myself a biden republican. there were reagan democrats in the 1980's. you remember the reagan democrats. i am a biden republican. let me tell you a few things ronald reagan did. he gave amnesty to illegal aliens. inflation went down. another thing -- a caller earlier said trump was friends to israel. well reagan made a deal with iran and israel didn't like that but of course that deal with iran helped us win the cold war, which was very important at the time. host: let's keep it to the current day as far as nikki haley is concerned. why her? caller: ok. nikki haley is honest. she does not insult people she disagrees with and she did a very fine job as -- in the

cabinet of -- she was not in the cabinet, as u.n. ambassador until trump tried to undercut her. she did an excellent job. she has the integrity and i would say mike pence also has integrity but we need a little bit of personality so that's why i would choose nikki haley. thank you, pedro. host: one more call. this will be from lee. he's in maryland. good morning. caller: good morning. i don't understand anybody who can follow trump. you talk about policies, unemployment and employment aren't policies. the economy was great that he took over. he acted like it was just going to pass. it did not. we lost a ton of jobs. though i think biden is great? no. i think he has a [indiscernible] host: you are breaking up.

let's leave it there as the last call for this hour. for those of you who participated, thanks. we will talk about international issues, particularly when it comes to nato. our next guest is dalibor rohac with the american enterprise institute talking about the russia ukraine conflict and issues stemming from overseas. later in the program, reuters reporter latest delays and cancellations you have been hearing about -- we will have that conversation later on. although that is coming up on "washington journal -- all of that is coming up on "washington journal." ♪ announcer: tv, every sunday on c-span2 features authors discussing their latest books.

at noon, join our live conversation with professor carol anderson who will discuss race relations and her latest book. and at 8:00,, of conservativism and rediscovery, discussing the tax on traditional western culture and the need to embrace service as a philosophy. watch every sunday on c-span2, and find the schedule in your program guide or watch online apple tv.org -- at book tv.org. announcer: c-span has unfiltered coverage of the house january 6 committee hearings, investigating the attack on the capitol. our web resource page has the

latest videos of the hearings, briefings and all of our coverage on the attack and subsequent investigation. we will also have reaction from members of congress and the white house, as well as journalists and authors talking about the investigation. go to c-span.org/jan6 pretty fast and easy way to watch when you cannot see it live. c-span has unfiltered coverage of the u.s. response to russia's invasion of ukraine, bringing you the latest from the president and other officials, the pentagon and a state department, as well as congress. we also have international perspectives and statements from foreign leaders, all on the c-span networks, the c-span now free mobile app, and c-span.org/ukraine. our web resource pages where you can watch the latest videos on demand and follow tweets from journalists on the ground.

good to c-span.org/ukraine. >> there are a lot of places to get political information, but only at c-span do you get it straight from the source. no matter where you are from, or where you stand on the issues, c-span is america's network. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word -- if it happens here, here, or anywhere that matters, america is watching on c-span. provided by cable. announcer: "washington journal" continues. dalibor rohac our guest -- host: our guest is dalibor rohac , here to talk about events overseas. how would you describe the native -- the state of nato these days? guest: the russian invasion of

ukraine provided a sense of reinvigoration and a renewed sense of purpose for the alliance, which had been drifting over the past decade with questions of the u.s. commitment to be alliance. i think that there is a war of genocide being made against a country, and it brings home why the alliance was built, which is to keep europe whole, free and at peace. there is a silverlining to this horrific war. it's really a stronger sense of purpose. host: with the current summit going on with president biden there, one of the story to come out of that is the strengthening of nato's presence in europe.can you describe what will happen and

what it does for the region? guest: yes, right now there will be about 40,000 nato troops under direct nato command in eastern europe. that number is going to go up to 300,000 at the conclusion at the summit. and there will be a new permanent u.s.-base in poland, with a rotation of troops in romania and the baltic states. and and all of these countries you will have a wider coalition of nato countries stationed to fend off russian aggression. so i think for a number of years, people in that part of the world had been aware of the risks of potential russian aggression, yet nato, until recently, did not plan seriously for the possibility of confrontation with russia.

the u.k. defense secretary ben wallace said last week that nato should plan for a land war with russia. not that he wishes at that to take place but the best way to prevent it is to be ready in addition to the russians at that nato is indeed ready to defend its member states. so, all of that is underway. it also comes on the back of strong rhetoric coming out of the g7 summit, in which of the leaders of the seven countries felt committed to ukraine's future and national self-determination, free of russian aggression. and it comes on the back of the eu summit last week, which extended the prospect of membership to ukraine and moldova. so they are not candidates for e.u. membership. these are important steps for things that had been unthinkable only a few months ago without the russian aggression happening.

host: let's invite the audience. if you want to call and ask questions about the nato summit, you can call us, republicans at 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002. or you can text us at 202-748-8003. the upgrades for nato, and few are looking for if vladimir putin is looking at this, what will be the response from russia? guest: people say that to prevent disclosure terry moves we should avoid provoking russia, but in reality in those places of industry for the kremlin, the reality is if anything is provocative or escalatory, it's a sign of weakness and hesitation on the part of the west. wherever there has been pushback against russia, russia has retreated. and whenever there were doubts

about what the west would do, including in ukraine or georgia, the president of russia pressed ahead, sometimes very aggressively, and with escalatory moves. we should not be afraid of strengthening nato's presence. it's really something that makes it more likely to deter russia. and russia is waging a war against ukraine, which is not an eu member. and it was creating unrest in moldova. i think it is good news that finland and sweden are joining. finland has one of the largest reserves in the entire world, close to one million people that are well trained. they have been rehearsing for a potential russian aggression for decades. so this really is an addition to the strength of the alliance and something to be welcomed. host: finland and sweden, one of

the roadblocks from that happening was turkey. why do you think turkey changed its position? guest: and memorandum was signed between sweden, finland and turkey on their support or lack thereof for kurdish groups. so, sweden has a history of housing kurdish refugees and those groups in south from turkey. but says it will not do that anymore. likewise, it has distanced itself. but in the background of this, there was a more transactional deal made between the administration and president erdogan, specifically over the delivery of some airplanes, that the turks always wanted, but essentially was scrapped from the program with and purchase of

and that your systems from the u.s. years ago. host: what you think president biden's influence has been over this process? guest: i think u.s. leadership is essential. and there are some people in europe who say that a crisis like this should lead to a greater sense of strategic tommy and european solidarity, but in reality i do not think we will have the kind of response to the ukraine crisis without the u.s. leadership. so, you have a significant divide between european countries, germany, france taking a much more relaxed, maybe not relaxed but cautious position with russia than those other countries that feel this is an existential threat for them. and for the u.s. and the u.k., if it was not for them building these coalitions and filling in the gaps, i think that it would be much weaker. so u.s. is not obsolete. host: the american enterprise

institute's dalibor rohac dalibor rohac joining us for the conversation. the phone numbers are on the screen. we will start with charles on our independent line in colorado. you are on, go ahead with your question. caller: first with a comment, then a question. i think that we should tie all the nato countries into take any country in that works with the west under nato, and then tie that to the tpp, and really put the economic screws on all of these misbehaving countries out there in the world to get in line. and i also want you to comment on jon huntsman, who you probably know who he is -- he said that there is no way russia can leave out of this without the removal of putin. he said this as body bags from

russia was coming back. it was really upsetting to russians. i cannot see where the russian people are going to keep this up with all of these sanctions and not oust this guy, your opinion? guest: great questions and a lot to unpack. i certainly agree that the united states and west should make greater use of economic tools. one of the striking elements of this situation is you have so many countries which normally would be in the west led alliances, brazil, indonesia, india -- they are on the fence and trying not to get involved. and i think that is partly a result of a lack of a really focused trade agenda, which could bring tangible benefits to these countries per security

arrangements. so i certainly agree with that. would put a question mark to any country should be able to join nato. it was created to protect its own members, and i think the members should be beneficial to the existing structures of the alliance. i think that that test is passed by finland, i do not think they will be a drag on the alliance's functioning. they will really strengthen the alliance. should a country like hungary or turkey be in the alliance? it really goes so frequently again, finding common positions -- i would not rush into enlargement. but this really is a sort of big

decision, thinking at the highest multilateral technical exercise. and then, who has, defenses. -- common defenses. with russia and putin, i certainly share the sentiment that this war of aggression is one for which there's an overwhelming responsibility. but at the same time i fear that we really have more than just a putin problem. there is no guarantee that russia after putin would be a less aggressive russia. putin is exploiting grievances and sensibilities that have existed in russia for a very long time. and he is also relying on, if not explicit consent, but license from many of other

countrymen, and that is particularly true of the russian elite. host: stephen in connecticut, hello. caller: i am going to focus on ukraine. there's -- even though joseph stalin said -- has a quality of its own, there is a lot of stuff from russia still coming in. and even though they are slowly pushing forward, they are being ground down. and just recently -- i mean, this is probably the most documented war in history. but there has been a change in some of the numbers, like the spikes in russian tanks that have been knocked off in just the last few days. i think it is because of more western weapons getting onto the field, but it is just not enough. i'm glad to see that they are putting in this area defense for

ukraine. after that mall thing that was just outrageous -- i'm outraged. but the high mars, i think for the modern military, nothing is reall as impressive. if you put like 50 or 100 of those out there, it will really change that war. host: ok. guest: i think that is exactly right. to paraphrase, it is also the case that the quality has a quantity of its own. the more high nato grade weaponry being provided to ukraine, the easier it will be for them to match or outmatched russian forces. i was in kyiv last week and at the recurrent thing from all of the parliamentarians and policymakers was they needed more weaponry, particularly

artillery in the donbass, because they have been outnumbered 10-1 in some areas, using old russian artillery. there's been small advances made at a very high price, with equipment and lives on the russian side. but the advantages still on the russian side. and i welcome very much the supplements offered by congress some time ago, but it looks like the weapons are being brought in relatively slow. that's true for artillery, anti-air missiles and really it is worth remembering that there is no way out of this situation without ukrainians winning on the battlefield. host: what would be game changers that the u.s. and other

countries could contribute that would make that happen? guest: more artillery, that is the number one priority for the ukrainians. and right now there is a blockade on the way of essentially ships coming out of a major ukrainian poor, which could easily lead to a famine in africa and in asia. which is the point of this whole thing. i mean, i spoke to a retired ukrainian who said that with the right equipment, ukrainians could take out the black sea fleet. and i think that is something that should be seriously on the table, seriously being considered in washington. host: let's hear from kristi in oregon on the republican line. caller: good morning. i do not think most americans realize the importance of nato, why it was created after world war ii. a united, democratic country --

there has not been one square inch in nato that's been taken over. it's a very good idea. but no one is going to take on europe, canada and in the united states. and -- and the united states. and my biggest regret is we did not put ukraine in nato. if you look at what putin wants, you will not be satisfied, even if he wins the war in ukraine. if putin somehow became a dictator over the whole world, he's the kind of personality if he saw the moon, he would want that to. he will never be satisfied. he is a horrible person. i do not see how anybody who lives in the u.s. and believes in democracy could support him

in anyway. host: thank you. guest: you could almost say that the origin of -- the origin behind the war in ukraine and behind the earlier attempts to annex the donbass is real decision-making at the 2008 nato summit, where the administration push for native enlargement to go east. and for giving an action plan to countries like moldova, ukraine and georgia. and it was met with resistance on the part of western europeans, in particular germans, and than that plan was scrapped. very soon after, russia responded by attacking georgia. in the summer of 2008. so it is very much the case of

having this common security umbrella makes everybody safer, the question whether going forward there will be a workable arrangement for ukraine that would give ukrainians credible security guarantees -- as we know the 1994 memorandum in which the u.k., u.s. and russia guaranteed its borders was really not worth the piece of paper it was written on. host: dalibor rohac joining us for this conversation. david ignatius writes about what is happening. he says, political fatigue is another problem for the u.s. and nato allies. the war in ukraine is popular now but complaint will -- complaints will grow as natural gas supplies dwindled during a cold winter into voters ask why money is not being spent on domestic needs. guest: yes, that is something to keep in mind. i was in prague last week as

well, in that? and the check republic -- in the czech republic has been stepping out in a major way to help ukraine. and you hear the comments that the gas prices are high. the holidays are getting expensive. once those turn into conversations about bills in the winter, i think that there is potential for a sort of resurgence of, you know, not pro-russian but the anti-ukrainian sentiments. and the backlash against the policies we currently have in place. however, in this country, it is imperative to remain focused on one issue. i see it as my job to keep people -- just to make sure that people do not forget about ukraine because what happens there is not just important for

ukraine itself but for the security of europe and western alliances. china is closely watching what is being done and how strongly the west is responding. and that will factor into its own decisions over taiwan. it really is a pivotal moment, to use an overused term. host: june on our independent line and wisconsin, hi. caller: hi. god bless ukraine. protect those people. but no more dead americans, please. we cannot shed any more blood on foreign soil. please. host: ok, thank you. oh, go ahead. caller: i'm just saying, we here

in america, those on fixed income need money. nobody talks about the needs of americans. we should -- to ukraine. retired vets. we need gas money. host: that goes to the point of our willingness to support ukraine, depending on how americans feel about their own personal state compared to somebody in another country. guest: that is a reasonable concern to have. but i will say that right now, it is the ukrainians who have been in the war. it's ukrainians who are dying by the hundreds every day in that war. and ukrainians are not asking for american troops to come in, or british troops, they are simply asking for equipment to enable them to fight the war and chase out the russians.

and providing them with that assistance, whether it is financial or actual equipment, is something that is not just morally the right thing to do but it's very much in our interest to think about defending nato. think about a situation where ukraine was occupied by the russians, it would be much tougher than it is right now when ukraine is on our side. host: you are in ukraine recently, can you describe life for the average citizen there? guest: many people are obviously -- they have fled, so when you arrive you are struck by the fact that the traffic is much lighter. the cafes are not full. there is a great sense of dignity and resilience. life goes on. the couples are kissing, you can go to restaurants. those at the river are relaxing. it's almost impossible to forget that you drive 30 minutes out of kyiv and qc ruins -- and you see

ruins. you see where ukrainians were slaughtered by the russians at the end of april, when they were retreating. so it is a surreal experience. but whoever you talk to, whether they voted for president zelenskyy or against him, ukrainians really are united in their decision to fight this war until the end because they know the alternative, to cannot live as free people and to be subjugated to this russian government. it is something that resonates strongly. and insured on the side as well. host: next caller. caller: can you hear me? hello, this is a 21-year-old veteran. this morning, i took a walk to

the gas station and i picked up a newspaper and i saw that president joe biden would be making an official permanent station in poland for the united states. my comment about ukraine, and also to the sister that was just on, his we have to be committed to this fight. unfortunately, wars are won with the blood, not sadness or hope or help. we have to be committed to this fight is americans because what happens when france is in threat? what happens when poland is in threat? let happens when places we love, like germany, is under threat? and we see that russia now wants to partner with china? we have to be committed. i am proud of joe biden's leadership. the one thing that i am significantly disappointed with, however, is the transparency in the united states. joe biden is unwilling to let the american people know what he is truly doing behind the scenes

to help with the fight and we must be transparent to the american people. this is a country founded on truth and you must be able to tell your american people that, hey, you need to be stocking. you need to be kissing your loved ones because pretty soon we could be entering an international conflict on a global scale. i appreciate you letting me on your show. guest: thank you for your service, first of all. secondly, i agree with the overall sentiment. if you speak to eastern europeans from poland, slovakia and the baltic states, they know that this is also their war. if ukraine falls, their countries will be next. and for americans, it would be very good to get ahead of the game. and to make a commitment to defending ukraine and ukrainian victory because that is the only thing that can prevent russians from coming into nato's territory.

and i think that we need better domestic policies, yes, for mitigating the effects of this war on our populations. but we should make no mistake about this being costly. the high gas prices might be here to stay. russia is a major oil producer. it's important that the russian public does not benefit from the high oil prices. there were discussions at the g7 on it. but i think that it is important to be transparent about this being a costly endeavor. yet, far less costly than the appeasement of russia in the long room. host: in new mexico, our next caller is martin. go ahead. caller: yes. thank you. i noticed you have not mentioned donetsk and lughansk. i find it ironic in the middle of a civil war that nato, the eu

and u.s. are formulating a material policy for the dismantlement of russia and china. in the name of "self determination," which you are not willing to give to the kurdish people and kurdish nation. i so just when we are dealing with these issues, we consider the ramifications of the eastern expansion and aggressive intentions against of the russian federation. this is not the soviet union, this is the russian federation. and they have rights within the context of the european reality, to support, you know, both donetsk and lughansk. it is a civil war. and we had a revolutionary war and our civil war, but as an imperial power we are attempting to expand our markets and our access to resources, and exploit

countries and peoples with cheap labor. the only way we can do this right now is to dismember both russia and china. and all of a sudden these issues come up after american investors have, you know, invested a considerable amount because of globalization. and i have developed a manufacturing, exploiting manufacturing, overseas. host: ok, you gave a lot to our guest. guest: i am sorry to say that this is not a civil war by any stretch of the imagination. this is a war of imperial complex, waged by russia against the ukraine. it's been launched under the pretext of a demilitarization of the country.

so to say that russia is somehow pursuing an interest in the region is really complete nonsense. many criticisms can be waged united states of america.

the nato-russia counsel was created.

all efforts were made to make russia happy and make it fit into this new security architecture in europe. it is the really russian imperial ambition fueling this. we should certainly do the former. host: in spain, the president is set to make a couple statements to the president. how do you address the current relationship the u.s. and russia have going forward as we are supporting ukraine? what does that mean directly for the u.s.-russian relationship going forward?

guest: it is in bad shape and likely to remain so. one thing coming out of the nato summit is this new strategic concept, updated every decade. the last was done in 2010 when russia was still treated as a strategic partner and russian officials were coming to nato summits. right now, there's a recognition that russia is a major threat to security of europe that is waging these wars of aggression and needs to be stopped and if that is the path russia wants to continue on, it is how to imagine -- it is hard to imagine how it could be anything else than a large-scale version of north korea. host: joann in maryland, democrats line. caller: i have a comment at a question.

the comment is a rebut about our gas prices and such. we are not experiencing anything like ukraine is. our schools and hospitals and shopping malls are not being bombed and people are not dying, so there's no comparison. when trump was in office, he did everything he could to disband nato. he wanted to get out of nato. he trashed nato and idolized putin. i remember when he sided with putin against our own intelligence agencies and everything, and my concern is nato is so vital to democracy throughout the world, my concern is, if trump gets back in office -- office, what does that mean for ukraine or the world in general? guest: we need strong american leadership in nato. without the u.s., the alliance would be far weaker and less central. far be it for me to defend the

previous administration, but notwithstanding much of the rhetoric, which i agree was very distasteful and harmful and did little to actually strengthen the alliance or improve burden sharing within the alliance, it did strengthen nato's posture in eastern europe -- alliance, the previous administering -- administration did strengthen nato's posture in eastern europe. a lot of what has been done to help ukraine was kick started in previous years. my hope, regardless of who is the next president, the alliance remains strong -- strong because having a stable and secure partner is very much in america's interest. host: when you say kick started, how so? give an example. guest: the rotational groups

that we now see in baltic states and poland. those have been started under the trump administration and during the obama years until the 2014 invasion of ukraine, under the umbrella of this pivot to asia, there was less interest in europe. when obama came into office, he scrapped the plans for a missile defense system for central and eastern europe, which really triggered the alarm bells in eastern europe and in eastern european capitals and many describe the two obama terms as a sort of uphill battle for eastern europe to remain on the radar in washington. i mean, in spite of president trump dismissive rhetoric tornado and -- trump's dismissive rhetoric toward nato,

there was a lot of constructive work being done, sometimes behind-the-scenes, to strengthen nato's posture, and that is something the alliance is filling out today. host: let's hear from maddy in massachusetts on the republican line. caller: i heard a call saying that he legitimized the russian federation attacking because the russian people there -- stalin, in the 1930's, when he invaded ukraine, he took all their wheat. it reminds me of stalin when he invaded poland, the poor fool. they gave the land back to ukraine. how dare putin do that again, killing women and children, destroying their country? it is debased and i look forward to the day he is gone. thank you. guest: i very much agree with

the sentiment. on my trip to ukraine, i visited bucha and other sites of russian atrocities, and one is really reminded of how atavistic and primordial this form of aggression is, targeting civilians, and it is a horrifying site. the fact that a large part of the russian elite and russian population are willing to go with it to me signals that there's something deeper than just the prudent problem going on. i mean, the fact that joseph stalin had policies that induced famine in ukraine in the 1930's, right now, putin is trying to do the same thing except to the developing world by blockading grain shipments, and in fact confiscating ukrainian grain and shipping it to russia and selling it on the russian

market. and i think it is very much in the interest of the collective west to stop that and deter countries like russia from ever trying the same tricks again. host: reporting coming out of the nato summit that a specific -- that there is specific attention to china, challenges coming with china, for the first time highlighting that. what do you think that means? guest: the way the summit in its basic construction have been designed before -- had been designed before the invasion of ukraine, the biden administration, much like the trump administration and obama administration, wanted to spend more resources on the indo pacific, which is understandable, but things happened. and of the strategic concept adopted by the alliance, china

is being name checked as a potential challenger. there are a few paragraphs dedicated to china's coercive practices, the risk to the rules-based order. at the same time, the alliance wents a constructive -- alliance wants a constructive relationship with china. it is understandable that they are on the radar. it is unlikely they will be a unifying force for the alliance the same way russia is. this is because many countries disagree vehemently on what their china policy should be and the european union as a collective body is trying to chart a third way between the great power competition between the united states and china. it is more likely you will see politicians and countries within the alliance trying to tackle specific china-related issues than the alliance as such

collectively. so it is were -- it is worth having those conversations. i'm not sure if the nato alliance will be the most effective vehicle to push back against china. host: luke joins us from california, independent line. caller: i would like to make a comment and ask a question. the comment is that i agree that americans have had it easy on gas prices for so long. compared to europeans, we are more spoiled. and yes, it is a big deal that -- you know, the gas prices here, where i live, are seven

dollars at the highest level, but it is a small price to pay compared with what the ukrainians are paying, and it is vitally important that ukraine decisively win this war and we do what we can to help without triggering a world war. my question is, how does israel fit into this picture? because i heard something about russia accusing israel of crimes against humanity, which i found ironic, and also, does israel have any -- can israel intervene in a way that doesn't violate the rules of the united nations? host: ok. thanks, ruth.

guest: the government have tried to stay as far away from the conflict as possible, possibly because of their own geopolitical situation, and russia is still very much present in places like syria. a sort of confrontation with russia would cause real headaches for israeli policymakers. -- sort of narrow sense of national interest, but there has been intelligence sharing, sharing of military technology with the ukrainians and so on and so forth, but i believe that

israeli public opinion is very much not extending beyond -- russian speakers are firmly on the side of the ukrainians in this conflict. host: dalibor rohac is with the american enterprise institute. he is a senior fellow. you can find his work at aei .org. thank you for your time. coming up, we talk about airlines and airline cancellations as we come into the holiday travel season. david shepherdson joins us next on watson -- on washington journal. >> american history tv saturdays on c-span two, exploring the people and events that tell the american story. at 2 p.m. eastern on the presidency, in honor of nancy reagan's birthday, we look at the first lady's legacy, her years in the white house,

and remembrances, including a postage stamp featuring her likeness. and the winner of this year's george washington book prize for his book washington at the fall. watch american history tv saturday on c-span two and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at c-span.org/history. >> live sunday on in-depth, emory university professor carol anderson will be our guest to talk about race in america, voting rights and gun regulations, the author of several books including white rage, one person, no vote, and race and guns in a fatally unequal america about the second movement.

join with your phone calls, facebook comments, texts and tweets. in-depth sunday with carol anderson on book tv on c-span two. now available to the c-span shop, the 2022 congressional directory. this compact spiral-bound book is your guide to the federal government, with contact information for every member of congress, including bios and committee assignments. also, contact information for state governors and members of the biden cabinet. go to c-spanshop.org or swipe the qr code with your smartphone. every purchase supports c-span's nonprofit operations. >> washington journal continues. host: reuters reporter and correspondent david shepardson joins us. he covers the airline industry

and the state of the industry. flight cancellations is our topic. good morning. statistics tell us that on the 26 of the -- of this month, airlines delayed or canceled tens of thousands of flights, and so far, there's the highest percentage of delayed flights this year. let's start with why this is happening. guest: there are a number of factors that account for that and there's been some finger-pointing between the faa, which oversees air traffic control, and the airlines themselves. this really began during the covid pandemic, and, you know, airline traffic felt almost zero overnight and the u.s. government provided with three rounds of government assistance to pay the bulk of their payroll costs that ended up lasting about 18 months. however, it did not prohibit the

airlines from offering incentives for early retirements or people to leave the airline and find a new job, so as a result, when the travel demand started to return faster than the airlines had anticipated, the airlines have been struggling to hire enough people to staff all these flights. from the other side, the airlines' point of view, you have problems with air traffic control. you have certain centers, like jacksonville, that the airlines say, in the last 27 or 30 days, they did not have enough staffing. as a result, even on blue-sky days, you saw delays. there are other issues, like space launches, which require the faa to block off a significant part of airspace to travel. so you've got a number of different factors here in a system that has very little slack when a disruption happens,

you know, thunderstorms, which are not uncommon of course during the summer. there are always delays and cancellations. what is different this year is, because the airlines don't have as many staff and pilots as they would like and, you know, the faa has places where they need to increase staffing, we are seeing these normal delays be exacerbated. you know, even yesterday, you know, three of the largest airlines had about 20% of their flights delayed, so it is a rough summer and there's a number of different causes and i do think you are going to see a lot more pressure for the industry and regulators to really tackle this. host: so they tell us that on the 24th, the tsa screen to close to 3 million passengers, 2.4 5 million. you are seeing a resurgence in travel. there's a tweet from leslie jones, who looks at these

things, saying even miami and international is averaging 150,000 passengers per day compared to 126,000 per day, the previous record in 2019. if these volumes continue, what is the potential regarding further delays in the future? guest: leslie has a good tweet and she does raise a couple good points. one is that florida has become so important for the u.s. aviation system, i think both southwest and jetblue estimate that anywhere from 40% to 50% of their daily flights touch florida, so hugely important. and remember, it was only recently that the u.s. government finally got rid of the requirements for international testing, that people test negative for international flights. so because of those requirements, we saw a lot of travelers who were reluctant to travel abroad. what we have seen is the domestic flights -- it has almost completely returned to

pre-pandemic levels, and, in some places like florida, at certain airports, you have seen demand for domestic flights increase or go beyond previous levels, and international demand has remained below what it was before the pandemic. but, you know, this is not -- this problem has been going on all year. the dot put out a report last week saying that, in april, only about 76% of flights were on time. that was less than the previous month and less than april of 2019, so it is a problem, and airlines have taken some significant steps, one of them being canceling a lot of flights they wanted to fly in the summer. the airline trade group, airlines for america, estimated in a letter around 15% of flights have been taken down voluntarily by the airlines. united took some flights out of

its newark hub, the most congested airspace in the united states and it has its own problems given the airport construction there. there are issues. so there's a lot of different factors surrounding this. and one thing to remember, the flight attendants, the pilots, they just spent two years dealing with covid, having to enforce mask mandates, a record number of disruptive passengers. so no matter how long your flight is delayed, it is not a good idea to take it out on the people working on your planes or flying your planes or servicing the planes, because they are working hard and a lot of them are being asked to work more, which is why you see picketing in a lot of places. host: david shepardson joining us in conversation. if you have questions, you can give us a call at (202) 748-8000 for the eastern and central time zones, (202) 748-8001 for the

mountain and pacific time zones. you can text us at (202) 748-8003. david shepardson, the transportation secretary, pete buttigieg, talking with the head of airlines, saying basically how will you resolve this? how much power does the federal government have over this? guest: not a lot. the government does have the power to take enforcement actions if they believe the airlines are not abiding by consumer protection laws. there are certain lawmakers -- the pennsylvania democratic candidate john fetterman has called for new fines significant fine,s, if airlines cancel a flight they know they didn't have the staffing for, but it will be somewhat challenging to determine how

-- determine ahead of time how they could no. nonetheless, it does raise a lot of anger toward the airlines for the number of cancellations and delays. so it is worth remembering that, after the pandemic, the department of transportation opened a number of investigations into airlines that failed to refund tickets in a timely fashion. there are still a number of those going on. there was a significant settlement with air canada that was announced a while ago. but the department of transportation has a number of new rules on the books or proposals it would like to get down this year or next year. those will take some time, but they include one that would refund passengers for their wi-fi if it didn't work, if they had delayed bags, but generally speaking, that 54 billion dollars government bailout did not come with a lot of strings. it did require the airlines not

to cancel service between two cities during the period they got the funding without the approval of the transportation department and you could not, you know, fire, reduce the pay of a worker without, you know -- on the airline's own. however, did not require -- it did not bar them from early retirements or voluntary buyouts, which is why some airlines saw their staff retract quite a bit. there was one estimate that, during the pandemic, about 50,000 airline workers took voluntary buyouts or early retirement. that's still a number the airlines are trying to work through, especially for pilots, given there's a significant number of hours required to train pilots and significant pressure on them. united announced a 14.5% raise

for pilots that will take effect over the next 18 months. there will be eight weeks of maternity leave for new pilots. and the regional, smaller carriers are struggling to keep their pilots because the mainline carriers are offering more money. some of them have also announced big contract increases, so there's a lot of pressure on airlines to try to attract new talent and at the same time airfares are also going up. host: david shepardson, we cannot show you the tweets, but a couple viewers have highlighted the fact of pilot shortages. how much was caused by pressure put on them by the airlines to take vaccines? guest: some airlines have reported there are a small number of pilots that did leave during covid. united has announced a small number of pilots. i don't recall the specific number offhand, but i don't think that's a very large number. and it is worth noting that most

of the carriers did not -- forced pilots to leave who didn't get vaccinated. you had things like delta, which initially offered these additional insurance payments for people who did not get vaccinated, an extra charge rather than forcing you to leave or putting you on paid or unpaid leave for not getting vaccinated. so i don't think that number is really significant relative to the tens of thousands of employees who opted to take those early retirements, those incentives. at a time when airlines really didn't know when demand would go back, right? i mean, there was some thought that the zoom culture of people, you know, avoiding travel, would continue much longer. really, the airlines were really guessing in the dark about how

long. would we see this depressed travel demand? and now, all the airlines -- i believe even united has offered people -- they have withdrawn those requirements, you know, once the once the mandates went away and the government was not able to enforce its mandates given a series of court decisions. host: david shepardson joining us in this conversation. our first call is from ann in maryland. caller: this isn't like i intended to call, but i think the comment that your guests doesn't have any real numbers on the number of pilot impact by the vaccine mandate is kind of sorry because that seems like a pretty basic piece of information that he should be aware of. the reason i really called is first of all, thunderstorms have been around forever so that shouldn't be an excuse for what's happening today.

and i can understand if there have been declines in the number of employees that these airlines are able to retain. but you don't schedule a flight and wait until an hour before to schedule your flight because you are understaffed at large. there is something else that needs to be able to explain these last-minute cancellations besides we just don't have enough employees. host: that's ann in maryland. guest: i pulled the number and the united ceo scott kirby said that out of their 67,000 40 they had filed about 200. six pilots were fired. about 80 were put on unpaid leave out of 13,000 pilots. to your other question about thunderstorms, you are absolutely right. there are thunderstorms. this system is supposed to be

performing better than it is. i think the airlines, the faa and the secretary of transportation would all agree that the number of transportations and delays are really untenable. because there is so little slack in the system, it's not just that your flight gets canceled. the airline might not get you on a flight for another day to days and people with work schedules and kids, that is not a system that anybody wants. the airlines did take 15%. they have proactively canceled a lot of flights. the faa says they are hiring more people and focused on getting staffing. i think long-term, everybody's

got to talk about are there ways to improve air traffic control management through more advanced technologies, get more airplanes in the sky closer together safely. travel demand is going to continue to increase. even as the airlines stuff back up and get to where they want to be and should be in terms of staffing, that's not going to address the whole problem. when the faa gets the number of controllers that it needs to ensure they are fully staffed. both airlines have been impacted by covid. controllers go out. five days they can't go back to work. there are still lingering issues as well.

host: how is fuel prices impacting things? guest: there's no question that airfares are going up quite a bit. they are different estimates. anybody who's going to try and buy a ticket recently has faced the same sticker shock. the issue that the airlines will tell you, they really have had no difficulty passing those higher fuel costs on to consumers because of the pandemic demand. people were stuck at home, stuck in their attics for two years. they didn't take those trips and they go to buy the airline ticket and say the traditional economic decision isn't worth it at this point. i saved money. i didn't go places for a year or two. i think people are willing to spend a little bit more on those tickets and as a result, the

price curve goes up quite a bit. the question is when will those things normalize, when we return to a demand and pricing structure that's more normalized. this fall will see some return. oil prices are high. oil and labor are the big drivers of airline costs. i think these higher prices that people are used to, we are just going to have to assume we will be in the place for quite a while. host: looks here from wisconsin. good morning. marty in richfield, wisconsin. caller: yes, good morning. two points.

my first question is with smaller or midsize markets, how do you expect those to be affected as the airline industry is continuing to change. i know in milwaukee and madison, the amount of flights we have had has been shown. when do we expect as far as fossil fuels to have solar powered passenger jets? guest: those are great questions. it is a big struggle and airlines have said they are not flying his many regional flights as they like because of the shortage of pilots. you have airlines like skywest asked approval to stop service to over two dozen airports. the government provides subsidies to maintain air

service to smaller airports across the country. in this case the airline petitioned to get out of those contracts early because of the lack of pilots. some start up airlines between smaller airports, smaller flights would be the argument that with the pandemic more people are working from places they might not have in the past and some of these smaller airports might see more demand because people who may have moved want to be able to still travel. cheaply to the smaller airports. at least in the short term there is more pressure on the smaller airports because the airlines are making decisions about where

to deploy pilots and flight and are focused on larger routes. they are not going to go away. in the short term there's going to be some pressure on some regional flights especially the very smallest airports that have service by a mainline carrier. in terms of solar powered planes and electric planes, it's a big challenge because it's not like a car where you can just strap a battery pack the size of an airplane and fly it 3000 miles and be confident that it's safe and has the extra capacity in case of emergency. long-term the electric airplane is seen as the way to decarbonizing sector but that's still a long way away.

there are still technical challenges that have to be addressed. in the short term airlines and the biden administration think that the way is through sustainable aviation fuel which comes from nonfossil fuel sources. other sustainable fuels currently up to 50% of what the plane would use. the problem is it's expensive. the airlines have been pressing for a tax break to make it more cost competitive and there's not enough of it. so there's a lot of demand and very little fuel being produced. the biden administration set pretty aggressive targets through 2030 to lower carbon from aviation. there is still a lot of issues

between production and the cost. host: for david shepardson of reuters, our next call is david in virginia. caller: thanks for taking my call. i heard you specify jacksonville twice now. i think i missed the point there. would you mind reiterating what the issue is with jacksonville and will my family and i have any issues flying out? guest: it's a little too early to say. the air traffic control center has had some staffing issues and the faa has acknowledged that and in may they said they want to ramp up staffing. it's less about the impact of jacksonville airport and more about the fact that if there are staffing issues, if the flow of

air traffic has to be lowered in that area it can impact much of florida and because florida has become so crucial to u.s. aviation and accounts for such a large number of flights. if you have problems in florida they can impact flights all across the system. that center specifically has been one that the airlines have identified as having staffing issues. we still don't have good data from either the faa or the airlines to really pin down exactly how much of a problem is staffing and how much that the airlines don't have enough staff to handle the existing demand.

it's hard to know. i personally watch flightaware. it's a good website that will give you industry numbers. the faa has a good daily site that you can look at. they put out forecasts to what might be travel issues. host: pete is in new hampshire. go ahead. caller: good morning. host: you are on. go ahead. caller: this whole thing is an endless revolving door. the government, the covid mandates by our government

basically has crippled the airline just like a lot of industries. what we are going to see next is a big bailout by our own government from the government they partially created. go back to when ronald reagan was president. he told them you either return to work by a certain date or you are done. every time the government gets involved with anything no matter what the industry or situation is, it ends up turning out poorly for the american public. host: that's pete in new hampshire. guest: if you go back to last fall when the airlines because they were government contractors were compelled to begin the process of requiring their employees to be vaccinated. there was a lot of concern that

pilots would opt to leave or be fired. it was a very small number of pilots that have been fired. most of the airlines opted not to fire people. that mandate was blocked by the courts. so i do recognize and think it's certainly possible that some pilots opted to retire early because they saw the mandate and didn't want to comply. but i don't think at this point a significant portion of the problem is tied to that because it doesn't exist. number two, there are so many pilot opportunities of anybody who did leave an airline wants to go and have a job, certainly those are available today. quite a large number.

you are certainly right that if you go back to last fall, there was a lot of concern that those mandates would lead to people leaving. on the other hand the government argued that it would be safer for the other employees if everybody in a confined space like an airplane had been vaccinated. host: (202) 748-8000 eastern and central time zones. (202) 748-8001 mountain and pacific time zones. delta plans to issue a travel waiver for this weekend. what does this mean as far as the preparation and do you see other airlines taking this kind of strategy? guest: this is a pretty routine thing that you see bad weather coming or you are concerned about delays. airlines will issue these waivers. in the case of delta it's a

relatively small window. i do think there's a lot of attention around this july 4 weekend. it's obviously a very busy weekend historically. the ceos expressly raised the ideas of how it would perform over that weekend. it's clear the airlines did not perform the way they wanted to or should have in an ideal world and so they got letters from lawmakers and this meeting for the secretary. there's going to be a lot of scrutiny or -- over how the airlines handle their travel. they don't want to transfer flights. i spoke to jeff lu a couple

months ago about this issue. because the demand is so strong and the prices are up, they can keep selling a lot of flights and hoping things go for the best. i do think they are trying to take more flights down, trying to run the system with a little more slack. the question is is it going to perform well enough. will congress take action to make it more economically painful for airlines to cancel flights. if that ever happened, you would think the airlines would operate a lot fewer flights. or cancel fewer flights. host: jay is in bethlehem, new hampshire. caller: i'm very concerned about

the compromise of aviation safety pushing these experimental shots. i'm sorry but i'm also concerned , i think the ceo of reuters serves on the board of pfizer. so that makes it kind of hard to get information. but thank you very much for coming on. i appreciate it. guest: the faa did closely review the shots expressly for pilots but after you got your site or your booster that you couldn't fly for a brief period of time. as far as i know some of the airlines have talked about after their employees got vaccinated they saw far fewer employees get sick or die or be hospitalized

as a result of covid. we certainly know that early on before the vaccines, airline employees were among the essential workers who had to keep flying. some died as a result of covid. there are certainly people who do not want to get vaccinated and work for the airlines but the vast majority of airline employees have been vaccinated at this point. host: senator bernie sanders of vermont sent out a letter to ceos laying out what he would like to see. some of the recommendations he makes is that we require airlines to promptly refund passengers that have been delayed over an hour, impose fines for flights delayed more than two hours and impose fines for scheduling flights that are unable to properly staff.

as far as regulators and legislators are concerned, if this cancellation happens, do we see more oversight by congress on capitol hill or at least more hearings on this topic? guest: i think for certain you will see more hearings. it sounds like a long way away, but the next faa reauthorization bill is set to expire september of 2023. congress traditionally uses that faa authorization as a way to take a really hard look at airline policy and see how the system is working. i think there is no question you're going to see a push by consumer advocates by some lawmakers to give the government more tools to crack down on delays and cancellations if they continue. if we look more closely at the

numbers, how much of those can be attributed to airlines failing to have enough staff. i think what senator sanders is talking about would be an uphill battle to get that approved. it's very frustrating. it's one thing to be delayed in a traffic jam, but you are driving. it's the perception that you are in control versus being stuck in the airplane you can't get off of. my in-laws just on a plane from boston to d.c. and they were delayed by eight hours and then they sat on the tarmac for over an hour in washington. it is one of the most frustrating things. the irony was the crew that worked their flight had the day off and they volunteered to come in because that flight wouldn't

have operated at all. the airlines are working incredibly hard especially these front-line workers to try to keep the system going. try not to take it out on them. it's not their fault. if your flight gets canceled or delayed. they are responding to air traffic control or whoever is telling them which flight gets to go or not go. there are very hefty fines the faa has been very willing to use during covid for people who assault or otherwise grossly misbehave on flights. everything will get there at the same time eventually. let's be nice to everybody on the airplanes. host: let's hear from stephen in massachusetts.

caller: cancellations are the most horrible thing in the world. host: you are going to have to repeat that. caller: horrible. [indiscernible] host: let's go to gary in kentucky. caller: hello. i had a cancellation on a flight from cincinnati to laguardia and it got canceled and so delta moved us over to american airlines, paid the difference, upgraded us. it was done the day before so it wasn't too inconvenient. we had an hour delay because of the weather sitting on the tarmac. i was sitting there about two hours on the tarmac at laguardia. but overall the airlines handled it very well and i was kind of

pleased considering the situation that i'm hearing on the program today. guest: i think that's a great point. all the planes that landed safely and everybody that didn't have a problem with their trip is not what we focus on. by and large even with numbers down, the planes that landed on time 76%. obviously it's not pleasant if you are on one of the flights that was delayed and clearly the system should be performing better than it is. and the airlines need more employees or more pilots. i do think one of the problems is the system because it is so overtaxed, it can be hours on the phone to get a call back from airline customer service if

your flight gets can. it's a very stressful process. flying itself can be stressful for some people. i do think it's worth pointing out that most flights even in bad weather or even when we have seen these issues do get to their destination relatively close to what they are supposed to be there. but we take it for granted. that it will leave exactly when we want it to and it's going to land. this is the time where the system is still rebuilding and it's not where people want it to be. roll the dice, know which one of the flights you are going to be on. it's very challenging. host: one more call. brian in tampa florida.

caller: just quickly. i don't know if i had my information correct. didn't airlines get a bunch of money from the government from covid? that really should have given them enough money to run with hiring enough pilots so on and so forth. [indiscernible] -- admonished about things. i guess that's just my comment. host: that's brian in tampa florida. we addressed that. chart out where we are going from here as far as

cancellations. what should consumers be watching out for? guest: make sure you check your flights before you leave for the airport. check the next day for text alerts or emails from your airline to give you up-to-date information about your flight if you can't get through on the phone, sometimes a direct message on social media might help. the airlines employ a lot of people whose job is to monitor social media. definitely pay attention. look at how the airport is doing.

massive traffic jams, the strikes, temporarily closed or had other significant disruptions. make sure you check how the airports are doing and then be prepared for very long waits. customs coming into the united states and leaving when you arrived to the airport. it's going to be a very challenging summer. it already is. it will just be the normal summer weathers -- summer weather that we are going to have part of the issue is the airlines were not required to keep those -- they are not

barred from offering those early retirements or voluntary incentives to leave. the government lifeline was approved in a very short period of time. the government was trying to ensure that the system survived. you could argue that the government have attached a few more strings on the money. could that have worked potentially. i think now the question is what regulatory structure, what rules are going to be put in place to try to reduce delays and cancellations and are there anyone that can do it effectively without substantially raising costs. host: you can find his work at reuters.com. david shepardson, thanks for your time today. we will finish out the time with open forum.

(202) 748-8001 republicans, (202) 748-8000 democrats. (202) 748-8002 independents. we will take those calls when we come back. >> since the summer of 2020, roughly 214 public monuments have been taken down across the united states either through official processes or by force. sunday night on q&a, aaron thompson, professor of art crime city university of new york and author of smashing statues talk about the history of american monuments and current debates over which ones should be taken down. >> after the murder of george floyd, millions of americans marched to protest racial disparities, to say that black lives matter and often the israelis focused on monuments as a symbolic meeting point for

showing who was honored in america. whose lives mattered and whose lives did not. >> sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span's q&a. you can listen to q&a and all of our podcasts on our c-span now at. >> c-span brings you an unfiltered view of government from the halls of congress to daily press briefings to remarks from the president. scan the qr code to sign up for this email and stay up-to-date on everything happening in washington today. visit c-span.org/connect to subscribe at any time. host: this is open forum.

we will go until 10:00. you can call on the lines. you can text us at (202) 748-8003. president biden at the nato summit. closing press conference taking place just minutes ago. one of the things he talked about was u.s. leadership in the world particularly when it comes to how other countries view the u.s. >> america is back with your model as the first nato summit last year. the u.s. supreme court overturned constitutional protections for abortion after the shootings in buffalo and texas at a time of record inflation and new polling shows that 85% of the u.s. public thinks the country is going in the wrong direction. how do you explain this to those people who feel the country is going in the wrong direction including some of the leaders you have been meeting with this

week who think that when you put all of this together it amounts to an america that is going backward? >> they do not think that. you haven't found one person, world leader to say america is going backwards. america is better positioned to lead the world than we ever have been. our inflation rates are lower than other nations in the world. the one thing that has been destabilizing is the outrageous behavior of the supreme court of the united states in overruling not only roe v. wade but essentially challenging the right to privacy. we have been a leader in the world in terms of personal rights and privacy rights and it was a mistake in my view for the supreme court. i have not seen anyone come up to me nor have you heard them say anything other than thank you for america's leadership. we have changed the dynamic of nato and the g7. so i can understand why the

american people are frustrated. i can understand why the american people are frustrated because of inflation. but inflation is higher in almost every other country. prices at the pump are higher in almost every other country. we have a way to go and we have to change that decision by codifying roe v. wade. host: that's the president of the united states at that closing nato conference. the hill following up today about potential white house responses for the actions of the court on roe v. wade. the administration is under pressure to take a more aggressive response but the white house has cautioned that steps like using federal land for abortion services could have adverse consequences. advocates, state officials and experts say there's more the administration can although they

acknowledge that steps need to be thoroughly reviewed and under to understand the legal implications. that's my at american university. she says we don't want to let the perfect stand in the way of the good here. look for the retirement of justice stephen breyer and the swearing in of justice ketanji brown jackson. you can see those things play out on the network at c-span.org as well as all these things that we taken during the week. let's start open phones with arnold in brooklyn new york. democrat line on open phone. go ahead. caller: even the centers for disease control admits that the covid vaccine does not prevent transmission. so why in the world would they insist that pilots and people

flying on planes be vaccinated? the reason they can't find enough pilots is because the pilots are getting sick because they were forced to be vaccinated. vaccination has a negative efficacy. more pilots are coming down with illnesses and have to be on sick leave. and the airlines refused to hire pilots who are not vaccinated. the few who are healthy. it is a shortage being created by their own policy. caller: good morning pedro. good morning america. i want to comment on the hearings that have currently been held. i am so impressed with all of the republicans who have come forward to tell exactly what

happened during the january 6 incident. i am really impressed with the young lady cassidy hutchinson. she is a young lady who is a staunch republican, but she is being lambasted by lots of people for telling the truth. i wish more young people would step up to the plate and just really step forward and tell the truth about things that they are aware of. and i just want to say go cassidy. host: that's common in georgia.

there is a story and politico stemming from cassidy hutchinson's testimony. politico saying that -- i'm probably pronouncing his name wrong, the secret service chief of communication told people that select committee investigators did not ask the secret service personnel to repair or answer questions in writing in the 10 days before asking hutchinson about the matter in the hearing. we were not asked to report to the committee and we plan on formally responding to the record, he wrote in an email. we will continue to make any member of the secret service available. during her testimony hutchinson described an explosive account in which the white house counsel want of legal culpability if president trump followed his supporters on a march to the white house. we go to diane in ohio. democrat line. caller: good morning pedro.

i wanted to say a few things real quick. i'm enjoying watching the hearings because i want to know the truth. number two, i have spoken a couple times about white supremacists. remember the rittenhouse hearings? it was stated several times the three people who shot were white supremacists. that meant then that the white supremacists were in the release for the black lives matter and we need to investigate that. it possibly could have been a prelude to january 6. also people need to know, senior citizens. you complain about social security. republicans are trying to get rid of it. it was in a hearing that they had in congress just this past month. please people, listen to c-span.

it's important. host: robert in texas. democrat line. hello. caller: hello there. first i would like to say talking to the lady that just talked about social security. i worked for 30 years in social security -- and social security took a lot of money from me. i just found out. i'm 71 now. that they aren't going to give me nothing but $250. out of all the thousands of dollars they took from me, they are not going to give me but $250 to try to get a burial? that's not right. that's wrong. that's stealing from people. that's not doing nothing else. thank you. host: that's robert in texas on our independent line. we will hear next from stephen in illinois. hi. caller: good morning. this call is in regard to cal thomas who in my opinion is a

propagandist for the republican party. he was on the c-span show a couple weeks ago. he also has a syndicated newspaper column which i read. several days after the uvalde shooting on may 31, he wrote in his column, one can support the second amendment and still favor bans on weapons of war. he also supported waiting periods and full background checks. in his column a week later, he blamed democrats for the uvalde shooting and said, attempts to ban certain guns will not solve the problem. my question is, since he's a guest on c-span program, why did he do a complete 180 change between the two columns? my answer is either he is senile and doesn't know what he's writing, or he hires other

people to write his columns and they do not coordinate what each write, or number three, the first article about favoring bans on weapons of war, the first article was serious at the flying saucer crowd and the hate america crowd put pressure on him to change his tune. so i wish next time he appears, some of your producers would corner him on this. and i'm sure he's going to deny it, but it would be nice if he could get copies of his columns and corner him. host: that's stephen. cal thomas did appear on this program recently. has appeared many times. to check out his appearance, go to c-span.org. let's hear from donald in michigan. republican line. hi. caller: hi. i just had a couple of things.

as far as the bush -- or not bush but trump and biden are concerned, i couldn't lower my standards low enough to go vote for either one of them. and it will be the same thing this year if we are not real careful. if that's the best two people in this united states to run for president, our country is in one hell of a shape. this is probably going to cost me, but you want to discuss with people. i call it arguing but it's discussing i guess. that would be like me getting in the ring with cashless click. -- cassius clay. you are an expert at that. you make your living at that. you would just beat me up. host: why the hesitancy not to vote for either or? caller: i'm sorry. i'm kind of hard of hearing. i can't hear what you said. host: ok. we will leave it there.

speaking of president biden, we just showed you some of that final press conference. one of the questions he was asked about potential executive actions the administration could take or other actions when it comes to the supreme court decision on roe v. wade, here is how he responded to that. >> what specific executive actions are you considering in response to the roe ruling and would you declare a public health emergency? >> i would be happy to go into detail on that. i'm having a meeting with a group of governors when i get home on friday and i will have announcements to make them. the first and foremost thing we should do is make it clear how outrageous this decision was and how much it impacts not just a woman's right to choose which is a critical piece, but on privacy generally. and so i'm going to be talking to the governors as to what actions they think i should be

taking as well but the most important thing to be clear about is i believe we have to codify roe v. wade in the law and if the filibuster gets in the way, it should be the required exception to the filibuster for this action to deal with the supreme court decision. host: the president talked to leaders in saudi arabia. the wall street journal says opec warning of a shortfall in oil out, saying the alliance pumped 2.7 9 million barrels a day less than its target of 42 million barrels a day in may according to an independent assessment report commissioned by opec. the shortfall stemmed mainly from sanctions.

the oil-producing group's so-called spare capacity, the difference between what it's pumping in the level to which it can ramp it up is shrinking according to the delegates. joseph in new jersey. independent line. caller: hello sir. do you hear me? host: go ahead. caller: i was watching c-span and it was talking about the capital. what questions do you want me to try to address? host: this is what we call open forum. so anything is up for grabs so to speak. caller: all right. i will talk about how the united states people did not identify the criminal act of breaking into our capital. i think it's disgusting.

it's criminal. period. there is nothing more to say about that. except the fact now that we know the president condoned this. he didn't do any action to take stopping measures for the criminals not to enter and hurt our people trying to do their job. not the woman -- knocked a woman police officer to the ground and sprayed them. i'm pissed. now you go onto the subject of what's going on with the hearings. the hearings have identified. what happens is there are people who get exposure and than other people who get exposed. trump got exposed, the bum that he is. he's trying to be a mob boss. he can't even come close to that. then he is trying to be a prudent respect -- putin

respecter. host: stanley on the republican line in texas. caller: hello. how are you doing? happy fourth of july. host: thank you. caller: i'm just wondering with the capital being attacked like it did, is it going to be more confusing for donald trump or as far as our president -- is it just a criminal crime now? as far as the police lady getting attacked, is it a former thing or is it just because it's a witness in court? host: josephine from new jersey calling in on the independent line. caller: good morning. the reason i'm calling although a few people have already stolen my thunder so maybe i will move on to what i want to discuss. the supreme court when they took

these two decisions back two years ago, i forecasted. i said beware. they have every intention to destroy our rights. and that's basically what they are doing. i never thought in my lifetime that i would hear decisions like this. host: are you talking about roe v. wade? caller: yes. as a woman, i personally think it's between a woman and god. it's not for the evangelical church. it's not for the conservatives. it's between her and god. she has to answer to god. i do not judge. so for me to judge why someone makes a decision, i can't do that. i don't approve of abortion, but i can't do that. and to have people step into someone's private bedroom to tell them what to do is just not

right. we are going back to the 1850's. i just don't get it. host: that's josephine in livingston, new jersey. the headline from npr. house speaker nancy pelosi at the vatican this week on wednesday. also administered communion by the pope. you have heard stories about her home archbishop refusing her communion. let's go to james on the republican line in columbus, ohio. caller: i'm happy to be on. i'm a republican. donald trump is a traitor and a liar. and i would never ever vote for donald trump. host: ok. that's james in ohio. one of the statements made by representative liz cheney in a speech she gave yesterday, that's still available on the

website. she talked about cassidy hutchinson and her testimony this week in front of the january 6 committee. >> it's an important concept and it is an important concept thinking about the young people in this country and the hope that they bring and i will tell you that over the last 18 months or so since january 6, i have been incredibly moved by the young people that i have met who approach me everywhere. at home in wyoming, in washington, d.c., in airports all over the country. and i will tell you it is especially the young women. young women who seem instinctively to understand the peril of this moment for our democracy and young women who know that it will be up to them to save it. and i have been incredibly moved by the young women that i have met and that have come forward to testify in the january 6

committee. [applause] some of these are young women who worked on the trump campaign the trump white house. some who worked in offices on capitol hill. all who knew immediately that must happen that day must never happen again. america had the chance to meet one of these young women yesterday. miss cassidy hutchinson. [applause] her superiors, men many years older, a number of them are hiding behind executive privilege, anonymity and intimidation. but her bravery and patriotism yesterday were awesome to behold. [applause]

little girls all across this great nation are seeing what it really means to love this country and what it really means to be a patriot. and i want to speak to every young girl watching tonight. the power is yours and so is the responsibility. in our great nation, one individual can make all the difference and each individual must try. there are no bystanders in a constitutional republic. and let me also say this to the little girls and young women who are watching tonight. these days for the most part, men are running the world and it is really not going that well. [laughter] host: if you missed the hearing this week featuring cassidy hutchinson, we are going to rebroadcast that tonight.

robert in south carolina, democrat line. caller: how are you doing. i want to speak about all the money that president biden is sending to ukraine and the united states is going hungry. what about the veterans and the homeless? we just sent $800 million over there just yesterday. we are always sending the money. when is the united states going to be fed? i don't think that's right. host: irene is in pennsylvania. republican line. caller: good morning. enough is enough. you've been getting away with murder for 50 years. it's time to return to the

principles upon which this country was founded. judeo-christian principles. there has been enough bloodshed. you have desecrated this nation. we want morality restored. stop being preoccupied with your bodies. worry about your souls. where your souls will end up after you die. god bless you. god bless america. choose chastity. host: that's irene in pennsylvania. the hill reporting an interview done by former president donald trump on newsmax. the president isn't ruling out florida governor ron desantis as a running mate in a potential 2024 white house. asked about the possibility of a trump-desantis ticket, trump noted he has a good relationship with the florida governor before

taking credit for his political success. i get along with him, i was responsible for his success because i endorsed him. president trump has hinted that he could mount another presidential campaign after losing reelection to president biden in 2020. selma is next in michigan. independent line. caller: yes. i have been following ever since trump got in office. i am more democrat than i am independent. my concern is that we are so focused on getting to the top and considering trump as the top person in this whole scheme of taking over the government. i have also read jane -- book on

dark money. what part has koch played in this whole scheme in the republican convention and so forth? i find it hard to believe that someone like trump is actually smart enough to have come up with this scheme. it almost seems like trump isn't just a pundit in that chain and we have to go one step higher than trump to really break this down and get rid of it. host: selma in michigan. coachella, california. we will hear from sylvia. sylvia in california. caller: i listened carefully. to the commentary this morning. i have a comment regarding gun control.

we are in the civil war. it is a major concern for the politicians in washington but they simply don't have the guts to bring control. this cannot go on. guns must be registered every year just like we register our automobiles. guns must be insured. gun owners must be responsible for that weapon and be ready to pay for the losses they cause with those weapons. why are we not doing that? host: that's sylvia in california. the president moves on on his overseas trips about aboard air force one.

this next call will be from steve in st. petersburg florida. caller: yes sir. i have a couple questions real quick on roe v. wade. why don't they speak of promiscuity and using birth control and being a responsible adult and maybe not having children out of wedlock? why don't we promote that? and question number two, how do they speak the honesty about the police officers killing black men is wrong? cable 21 put out by the fbi has proven year after year there's more white men killed by police officers than black men. why don't they tell the truth? host: steve didn't -- i forgot

the state. that's the last call we will take. thanks to all of you who participated. that's it for the show today. we will keep watching as the president continues on with this trip. we will have the retirement of stephen breyer. that's it for the program. we will see you tomorrow morning at 7:00. ♪ ♪ >> today on c-span, leader -- legal experts examine supreme court hearings, including cases on abortion rights.

that conversation hosted by the american constitution society and you can watch it live on c-span. a discussion on the role of lgbtq rights on policy decisions. watch that live at 3 p.m.. they are on c-span now, on site -- online at c-span.org stop -- c-span now work. -- c-span.org. -- barriers to investment in women and minority owned companies. that is live at noon eastern today. both of those events available on -- exclusively on c-span now. this week, we are showing all the january 6 committees in

primetime. the fourth hearing -- to decertify the 2020 presidential election. watch tonight. you can watch on c-span now or anytime online at c-span.org. >> c-span has unfiltered coverage of the house january 6 committee hearings investigating the attack on the capital. go to c-span.org/january 6 the latest hearings. since january 6, 20 21, and we will have reactions from members of congress and the white house as well as journalist and all. -- authors. go to our website for a fast to -- an easy way to watch when you

cannot see it live. >> we are funded by these television companies and more including charter communications. >> broadband is a force for empowerment. -- empowering opportunity and communities big and small. charter is connecting us. >> charter communications support c-span as a public service along with these other television providers giving you a front row seat to my -- to democracy. >> remarks from liz cheney, the vice chair of the january 6 committee. she spoke about the state of the republican party and the movement in a speech at the reagan library. this is under 40 minutes. >> before we