later, the view of the u.s. economy and the possible session. as always, be sure to join the conversation with your balls, text messages and tweets -- with your calls, text messages and ♪ host: about four months to election day and the dominant national issue in the midterm is the economy. inflation, the costs of gas and groceries. shrinking pension and retirement savings. as americans listen to their elected leaders and election challengers, the issue of trust, who can you count on to best fight for our economic downturn and protect workers, an important factor. good morning, welcome to "washington journal," thursday, july seventh. which party do you trust to

protect workers, our opening question for you. the line for democrats, (202) 748-8000. for republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents and others, that line is (202) 748-8002. the line to send us a text is (202) 748-8003. tell us your name and where you are texting from. we are on facebook, twitter, and instagram and you can reach us @cspanwj. your experience as a worker, who do you trust, which party do you trust to protect workers? we will hear from elected officials, including president biden yesterday in ohio. we are also keeping our eye on london, where this morning boris johnson is reported to be announcing that he will step down as prime minister. that has not happened yet as we get information and possibly hear from the prime minister on that.

we will bring that to you. to our opening question, and the appearance of joe biden, midterm preview in ohio with a campaign style visit. the president came to cleveland to tout the administration work to protect pensions but the message of the midterm was never far from view, writing that he struggled to confront the high inflation that has dimmed the outlook for his party's chances in the midterms, ratcheting up his rhetoric in what was a more partisan campaign style event providing a preview for how he will cast the coming election. touting the benefits that his policies will have on pension plans --

host: the president in that speech in ohio, yesterday, talking about his views on the accomplishments of his administration and the economy. [video clip] >> y'all remember the country in a pandemic with no real plans to get out of it. then there is the people out of their jobs. families and cars backed up for literally miles waiting for a vox of food to be put in their trunk because they didn't have enough to eat. previous administrations lost more jobs on their watch than any other administration since herbert hoover. all based on failed trickle-down economics that benefit the wealthiest americans and hit the middle-class working people the hardest. we came in with a fundamentally different economic vision. when the middle class does well,

the poor does well, the wealthy still do very well. that's why we designed the american rescue plan based on the belief that recovery should help all americans prosper. a belief that working, building power and unions are good for workers and for the economy. a plan that led to the most jobs created then and anytime in any other point in american history. and we have seen in the past how economic crisis can leave so many americans and tough straits for years, sometimes the rest of their lives. economists call it the scarring effect. leaving folks unemployed for a long time. remember when we started this, a lot of people were equally as qualified but had been unemployed for 8, 10, 12 months and wouldn't even be considered.

two people put in an application, a person might be more all if i'd but they were out of work for longer, it is called the scarring effect, people not able to get back to work. we change that. young people facing a weak labor market, they are back. losing income late in life, that's a scar that doesn't heal. well not this time. long-term youth unemployment dropped at a record pace and millions of workers will have the dignified retirement that they earned and deserve. host: views from the republican party, tim walberg of michigan saying that runaway inflation is crushing americans, forcing people to drain their savings accounts at an alarming rate complete to stay afloat and the republican whip of the house, steve cook -- steve scalise saying that americans are most worried about being crushed by soaring high gas prices. what are democrats doing?

months of political theater, produced for television, out of touch. asking the question, which party do you trust to protect workers? (202) 748-8000 is the line for democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. all others, (202) 748-8002. first to pittsburgh, on the independent mine. james? caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. the two party system will never work. they are always fighting this guy, fighting that guy. we need a party of the people just being human beings. host: what, what are the two parties not doing when it comes to workers in the economy? what do you think that neither party gets? caller: in my opinion, sir, unions destroyed america.

a little kid can't even have a lemonade stand. you cannot even create your own jobs. a little kid knocking on doors, can't do that no more. that's what they were created for. host: all right, james, fading out a little bit there. ralph, in new york, you are on the air. caller: yeah, uaw worker upstate . yep, uaw worker from upstate new york. it's the democratic party since 1936 that supported working people. look at every facet of the laws the republicans support, including right to work laws, trump's, donald trump, the supreme court there voted to repeal protections for state

public sector workers. not one republican brought up the proactive s4 20 in the labor committee with tax policy, democrats affording the working class and the lower middle class. you can see it in the american rescue plan that they advanced in the american income tax credit. it's better than the tax cut jobs act that supports only the wealthy. so everywhere you look, every facet of the law in the issues they support, its hands down the democratic party. thank you. host: which part of you trust to protect american workers? caller: i'm not a big fan of government being involved in workplace affairs. i'm pretty libertarian when it comes to what parties are

protecting workers. i want government to kind of, i think the work, i think the company, i think it is the company responsibility to make sure that workers get fair pay and are providing health care and benefits, social security. i think that anyone who works a full-time job should receive benefits but i think that the democrats and republicans, there's too much, i guess, persuasion when it comes to taxes and things of like that nature. so, yeah, i'm pretty like fiscally i'm pretty conservative but socially and pretty liberal. so, i guess i would have to meet in the middle on this one. host: are you working currently? guest: yes, -- caller: yes, i'm a teacher. i look forward to being back to work after this summer. host: appreciate the call.

senator rick scott of florida last month talked about the biden administration policies as they affect the american worker. here is what he had to say. [video clip] >> the joe biden democrats have a war against work. they want to take good, hard-working americans and make them dependent on government. they want americans's to spend more time looking at whether there is a new government program rather than focus on finding a new job. there is virtue in having a job. my mom told me you are going to work. there is virtue and work. so, i put out a bill, the let's get to work act. it's real simple. we've got to get rate -- able-bodied americans back to work. work requirements were waived when the pandemic started. they have to come back. we should apply the same work requirements to public housing. able-bodied americans ought to

be a part of the capitalist system. pay their taxes. have a job, you pay taxes. pay property taxes. we have got to get this country back to work. host: yesterday the president was in ohio speaking to union workers. among others. here's the headline, one of the reasons he was there, the biden administration expanding how pension funds can invest in federal aid, one of the finishing touches on the bailout approved last year from truck drivers and other workers facing deep cuts to retirement benefits with final rules allowing pension plans to invest up to one third of the aid that they receive in stocks overwriting a previous restriction that generally limited them to investment grade bonds according to a document provided by the white house with new rules revamping the formula for distributing aid, the document

said -- changing plan payouts. our question today, which party do you trust to protect american workers? joe? good morning. caller: i'm just curious, i mean the democrats, they are killing us. i'm curious about this gas reserve that biden just pulled out. these millions of dollars from our strategic reserve, sending them to turkey and china, what's the deal with that? here we are paying out for gas, this is crazy. that's all i've got to say. host: walterboro, south carolina, paul, hello there, independent mine. caller: i don't think either party cares about the worker or protects the worker. they are all multimillionaires. they are all the same, from the same cloth, run by oligarchs.

i think also that joe biden is the worst president in my lifetime. i'm 67 years old and i've never, never seen our country in such bad shape. host: here's elsa, excuse me, alicia, next in south carolina on the democrats line. caller: yes, i agree, the democratic party always supported the working people, which has been proven over the years. everything the working people have came up under the democratic party. i cannot think of one good thing on the republican party that benefited the minority people of workers. since they been out here. the republicans have always been for the wealthy and the well-to-do. you tell me which party you think is best. host: we mentioned the pension changes from that article in the wall street journal, specifically according to the white house, a change in those pension plans protecting 2

million workers to 3 million workers from pension cuts with 200 plans affected by this and the plans are projected to remain solvent until 2051 are longer and by the way this was funded by a part of the american rescue plan from last year. $1.9 trillion past in march of 2021. reaction however from the republican side of the house, the education and labor committee in their statement on the biden plan, they say this, congressional democrats and president biden abandoned any pretense of partisanship by unilaterally enacting a taxpayer-funded bailout of a select group of failing solving privately managed retirement plans that failed to protect workers and retirees and their trustees which -- refused to make the changes necessary to make good on their promises and created perverse incentives for

underfunding and leaves the taxpayer holding the bag. bob is on the republican line in philadelphia. go ahead. caller: good morning, c-span. thank you for take my call. host: you bet. caller: i think the point you just made with the, with the, with the committee, the congressional committee that said it further jeopardizes pension plans is accurate. you know, in the end, i'm a part of one of these plans. i'm in the bakers plan. and essentially there are more orphans in these funds then there are contributing members. that's a recipe for disaster. you are just not going to, the only way you're going to make the funds solvent is by taking taxpayer money, right, just shoveling money on top of it. all of it is borrowed money.

now, joe biden has to ask himself, what about all the people in 401(k) plans who are getting currently eviscerated? does he care about them? does he even give a hoot about them? is that bipartisanship? does he care about just that small segment of unionized workers? or does he care about everybody in retirement? is he going to bail out 401(k) also? that's a question that you guys at c-span have to talk about. what about all the people that are losing their retirement? people having to defer retirement now, that cannot retire. he's up there, helping out union people, that's great, that's perfect, but what about everybody else? maybe he's got to help other people, to. that's a question that has to be broke -- broached. host: your pension, you said it was affected by this? caller: probably?

it's declining, in really bad shape. there are more orphans of the fund than there are contributing members. and that's not going to change. you will just have more and more orphans of the fund. so, in the end who bails us out? it's the american taxpayer. you want to get a big shovel and just shovel cash onto these things? it's not just my fund. there are a lot of teamster funds. and again, somebody has to ask the question. if you are going to take care of union retirements, what about everybody else, the vast, vast, vast majority? you know this yourself. the vast majority with 401(k) and ira. you know it yourself, they are being eviscerated. host: all right, bob. we will go to carolyn in

virginia. which party do you trust to protect workers? caller: democrats. i trust democrats to protect workers. but the people, i just don't understand. if they look at the politics, biden got into all this, he got this from, from trump, handed down to him. trickle down to him because of this epidemic. everybody's like joe biden, joe biden. everything you put on the table, the republicans cut down. he's trying to help people. they cut it down because they want people to look down on joe biden. they don't care what's going on out here in the world. people not eating, people without homes or jobs. do you see the republicans putting any ideas on the table? no. all they do is criticize. and they don't see it. all they see as joe biden, joe

biden. he's not doing everything right, but he's trying. the republican people pushing everything down that he puts on the table. that's all you all say, joe biden, joe biden. look at the republicans, what are they doing? and what trump handed him when he came into office. he didn't even sit at the table with him. host: all right, this is from yesterday's event from bloomberg reporters, biden turning to direct attacks on trump, accusing the former president of dismissing and ignoring the forgotten people he promised to help in an unusually blunt attack on wednesday indicating that the white house might be trying to turn the midterm elections into a referendum on his predecessor. at an event in cleveland he slammed trump repeatedly, revealing new regulations governing assistance intended to

bolster pension plan saying that the former president kept lawmakers from voting on the legislation that funded the program. here are some of what was said. [video clip] >> the party that chose to make life more comfortable for the already comfortable, now the republicans are actually offering a plan. i'm not joking, ask yourself this question, what is the republican platform in this campaign? i'm being deadly earnest. just a fact. well, they have a guy who is the rick scott from florida who heads up the republican campaign committee. he put out a plan. what does the plan do? it makes the tax system less fair by wanting to tax everybody making under $100,000 on average a lot more money.

it raises taxes on working families because he thinks you don't pay enough in taxes already. not a joke. i should have brought along the actual copy of the plan. go online and get it, for real. republicans, they published it. they think we are freeloaders. he has a problem with the tax code it allows billionaires, they pay none at all. no problem. trillionaire's, billionaires, there are 789 of them in america and you know the average income tax they pay federally? 8%. everyone of you with the job pays more than 8%. every single one of you. , teacher, firefighter, union worker, you probably pay two times that. now they are refusing to protect your pension and they are going after your social security. if i hadn't seen on paper, or them talking about it, i would have thought i was making this up. not a joke.

big idea, social security's on the chopping block every five years. they have to be reauthorized or they go out of existence. social security, you pay in from the day you started working. it's your other pension. you are paying in every single paycheck. you earned it. it's your money, just like your pension. adding in medicare and medicaid on the chopping block every five years unless congress explicitly votes to extend the program, they go away. you know how they work the rules in the senate. the ability to slow this up and keep it from happening is real. you know how hard it is to get anything done in congress? imagine what it would be of republicans had their way. congress is deciding every five years whether the promise of your hard earned medicare and social security can be continued, discontinued, or cut? it's shameful.

host: morning question, text messages, this from bc who says -- inflation going down, biden won't get credit. the right cannot handle the fact that the economy in general is doing so well. david orlando says i would choose the democratic party every time because they want to keep social security and medicare. hypocrisy is hurting america. rick spot -- rick scott took the fifth 75 times on medicare. workers protecting themselves, the party protecting workers, never mind scotus deciding corporations are citizens, workers are screwed, says sweet. and debbie saying yesterday that the failed economic policies of president biden have caused american households to spend hundreds of additional dollars every month.

a 12% jump in americans saying that their financial situation is bad. that's real clear politics with their average across polling organizations. the real clear average for the presidential job approval number , the average is 33.2% approve, 62% disapprove. our question, which party do you trust protect workers? sarah is in michigan on the republican line. go ahead. caller: good morning, how are you. it's [indiscernible] michigan named after the wonderful indian tribes around here. i'm calling regarding which party i trust, neither, never have. behavioral science at its best. psychological warfare at its best. they drag you out, gas lighting and posturing. each party is one conglomerate criminal organization and they

are dragging us around with every bit of shifting sand chaos that they can do. this is the plan, people. the only thing that we can do as americans is boycott them and stop paying any and all taxes. stop giving them one more dime of your money. they don't deserve it. they all need to be fired. none of them should have got away, none of them have -- should be getting any pay. they emboldened themselves in all areas of government, right or left. they became bigger, creating more districts, more committees. this is a graft. it's the biggest grifter known to man on the world and it started with the scamdemic. you people are not talking about the mrna deaths and the injuries caused by the experiment of drug. not a vaccine. but when you keep it under eua they change language like they do everywhere in the culture. for 50 years you are still in the same spot, still poor

people, still racism. they have kept black people in their spot for a reason, because they can. just remember, media is the push on this. they are the cia. this is a military operation being placated on the world. host: that was sarah in michigan. donna, democrats line, california. caller: hi there, thanks for taking my call. oh my gosh, the lady from michigan. you could just end the question with which party do you trust. that would be the democrats. i don't trust the republicans as far as i can throw them, i guess. can't trust the supreme court anymore. the teacher from texas was fiscally conservative and socially liberal?

he didn't trust the government. people, he thought, and a lot of people seem to be under the impression that social security is, that that's the government right there. how could you not trust the government? if you are a worker? what about osha? that's protecting the worker right there. as far as unions go, i'm a nurse. i haven't been working, i'm older now. the hospital for a few years said we love you, you are the best, nurses, but we can't afford to give you a raise. and by the way, over 20 years they took away five holidays. we went from eight holidays to three holidays. christmas, thanksgiving. and it's not as if you are not

working on holiday. it's just you get paid better, time and a half for working on holidays. but finally, the nurses unionized and oh my gosh, we had a huge pay raise. went up to kaiser level pay. and other equal pay. i'm not sure what unions have to do with this, but i don't trust a republican to do anything these days. host: how long have you been a union member and how long did it affect you as a nurse? caller: only in my later years, sadly. host: and was there a pension from your union? caller: yes, there is a pension. it's a 401a or b, i'm not sure

what it is. and i'm worried about that. i have, not counting numbers, i have, gosh, i lost about $17,000 in the last few months. it's terrible. host: appreciate your input. we are going to y on dot, michigan. bill is on the line. caller: i started working in 1976 in a union and i just retired recently. i've watched joe biden, all of them since the 70's, give our jobs away. joe biden isn't the only one. there's a whole mess of them. michigan, god bless it, girl, you tell it like it is. collin, tell me where you work. you work for government? you work for the private industry? then we know where the lines

fall. we have watched over all the years the democrats who are in charge for over 40 years of the house until 1995i believe it was, the republicans finally got a little control. all of them 40 years that the democrats were running on their tax policies. are they not the ones giving all these tax breaks to the rich? are they not the ones that watched our jobs through the 70's, 80's, 90's, leave us? no jobs for our children? i work in detroit. i see these people, they want to work but they got nothing. no jobs. they are all gone. if them jobs were still there, for the knuckleheads who don't get college-educated, they come out to be some strong, independent working people. if they were still there for them it would be a boom, but it's not, it's a mess. because of what? the democrats. host: let's hear from lacey on

the independent line in bristol, tennessee, good morning. lacey, you are on the air. caller: are you there? host: yes, we are, go ahead. caller: [indiscernible] yes. everything the president said [inaudible] you could check all of it [indiscernible] anything i'm sure [indiscernible] absolute truth. i worked in [indiscernible] ohio four [indiscernible] union had us a pension and it was absolutely great. 401k. [indiscernible] things like that. going all the way back to [indiscernible] every labor union he crossed was good. [indiscernible]

i tell you for an absolute fact, [indiscernible] this country is finished. there's already big [indiscernible] from the beginning until now. judges fixed, election fixed. [indiscernible] by golly, something going on in this country right now and i don't understand it. i'm kind of worried. people disregard what they see and hear. what they see with their eyes. i don't see how they can do that. [inaudible] just think about it. this big thing went off down here and i'm telling you this is the worst i ever saw. [indiscernible] every time they start getting warm on [indiscernible]

something like this happens. [indiscernible] that's the way it looks to me. host: our question for you is which party do you trust to protect american workers? (202) 748-8000 is the line for democrats. (202) 748-8001 is for republicans. independents and all others, (202) 748-8002. house and senate are out this week on the july fourth rake. back next week, but the january 6 committee will be meeting on friday. cipollone testifying at the january 6 panel. the former white house counsel testifying under oath behind closed doors on friday before the house select committee investigating the january attack on the u.s. capitol according to people familiar with the agreement. the testimony from the top white house lawyer promises to be one of the most important of the

more than 1000 interviews in the year-long investigation. he was present at any significant moment in the white house as mr. trump sought to cast doubt on the election result, witnesses have said. back to the economy, a republican view from john hogan, on foxbusiness and his views on the biden administration's efforts on the economy. [video clip] >> this notion that there are people forces at play with oil guys manipulating the prices, spinning on it, taking the profits and run, what do you make of that? >> it's the biden administration energy policy. they came into office saying that they would reduce the supply of fossil fuels, shifting people away from fossil fuels, putting policies in place to do that, and they have. in fact when the biden administration started producing 13 million barrels per day in

this country, now we are down to 11.5 because of their energy policies. >> so, where does this go? the irony might be that prices come down but for all the wrong reasons, the economy slows, people are not taking as many trips. activity slows, companies get slower on hiring and laying off workers. where do you see this all going? >> right now it is supply and demand, you know that very well. recession dramatically reduces the demand and the price goes down but the reality is you have got to bring the right kind of energy policies to foster more energy production, bringing more supply down the right way and it puts people to work in this country creating economic activity and a national security issue for ourselves and our allies. host: that was senator john hogan yesterday on foxbusiness.

more on your calls momentarily and we want to let you know that right now the u.k. prime minister boris johnson is announcing his retirement. this is the video feed of the bbc. we can listen in for a moment. hear what he has to say. >> the income that we -- income we have to pay for great public services. that great new leader, i say whoever he or she may be, i say i will give you as much support as i can. and to you, the british public -- [loud booing in the background] many of you will be relieved. host: you can hear, there is some video audio breakup in that

live feed from the bbc, from 10 downing street in london as the u.k. prime minister boris johnson announces his resignation. we will certainly get more detail shortly and hope to have further video for you later in the program scheduled on the c-span networks. a quick primer on what happens next from the bbc, the boris johnson resignation, what happens now, how did the conservatives select a new leader once they have stood down , the election for a new party leader is triggered and under current rules they need the support of eight conservative mps. there were reports this morning that the prime minister would remain and would step down as party leader but remain as prime minister. again we will look for more details on his comments. but let's get back to your calls and comments on which party you trust to protect american workers. robert is in englewood, florida. thanks for waiting, robert, go ahead.

caller: democrats, 100 percent, protect workers in my opinion. i got out of the army and 69 and i went to work or one of the biggest companies in the world. i worked there 40 years. we worked 60 hours a week, sometimes more and our motto every year was let's go out and make the company money so you can negotiate a better contract when the contracts came up. that company never had to go on strike the 40 years i worked there. the company today makes billions of dollars and their employees are having good contracts because of the teamsters. host: with all the comments on the pension changes, how is your pension holding up, robert? caller: my pension is fine. i retired down to florida, i still have the house in pennsylvania where i'm from. yes, yes. we worked hard for the job.

our contracts, we took less money, they put money into the pension and medical and everything like that. yeah, i'm a teamster for life. god bless jimmy hoffa, he was no worse than donald trump and as far as rick scott goes, i'm sure everybody is aware that his company stole 1.7 billion dollars from medicare and he turned around and fled the fifth and didn't go to jail but the people under him did. the donald trump pardon, they were supposed to do 20 years. republicans i got no time for. host: all right, teresa, on the republican line. bloomington, illinois. caller: hello? host: hi, teresa. caller: i grew up as a union child. this union that my husband got involved.

i can't wait to get out of it. they tell you if you don't vote democrat, your pocket is going to hurt. when trump was in office, i had a big purse. i can't wait to get out of illinois. for all of our politicians to come on and talk this big lie that they are holier than thou, we have more people in politicians going to prisons that should have went to pontiac prison. caitlyn jenner, he knows he's sucked -- killingger knows that he's sunk. they went so far to the left, the next opportunity is john f. kennedy and that's sad. i don't want trump to run around these idiots. this is the most idiots in the world we have ever lived in. host: update on the highland

park mass shooting, this headline from "the washington times," the man charged with killing seven people at an independence day parade confessed that he unleashed the hail of bullets on the rooftop in suburban chicago in the lead to the madison, wisconsin area where he contemplated shooting up an event there. the suspect returned to illinois where he was later arrested after deciding he was not prepared to pull off a shooting in wisconsin. the lake county major task force said following the hearing where the 21-year-old was denied bond. let's hear from thomasville, north carolina. jason on the independent line. caller: i agree with a couple of callers that called and this morning. i don't think either side can be trusted as far as jobs. forget the union or not a union. it's whether we have the jobs or a lot of jobs. the main thing that they did was

sell our jobs overseas. nobody is really fighting against our adversaries, like china, who produces all our goods, to get the jobs back. pay attention. unions, nonunion's, it's all about where the money goes on either side. it's not all about giving it to people. host: all right, lloyd, republican line. caller: good morning. it used to be that the democrats were for the working man. but something has happened to that party, it's changed. i used to vote democrat but i wouldn't vote for them now hell or high water. host: what, in your mind, lloyd, changed? caller: i don't know, but the whole bunch has gone the other way end of biden was interested in the working man, why would he be letting all of these people coming across the border to take jobs?

and his son don't even work. and biden don't work. they've been sucking off the government for a long time, getting all the tin. another thing, biden, he's just a black man's puppet. he's just using the black people to get votes. host: why do you say that? caller: well you can tell with the giveaways and everything. wants to give you money to help you and all you got to do is look at your 401(k) and see where it's going. yeah, i was in a union at one time, too. host: president biden yesterday in ohio, we talked about this a little bit earlier, announcing changes in pension plans across the country. money funded by the american rescue plan from last year. here's the president. [video clip] for the folks at home, imagine

losing 50%, 60% of that pension to no fault of your own. imagine what it does financially and emotionally. what it does to your dignity. we have david here, retired teamster truck driver from north carolina who faced a 70% cut in his pension. joining me today, rita lewis. where are you, rita? she's here somewhere, i'm told. she's stepped out. i don't blame her. [laughter] she is butch's widow. their anniversary is coming up in a couple of days. childhood sweethearts. butch was a ballplayer drafted by the pittsburgh pirates out of high school. he enlisted in the united states army instead. special forces, army ranger, served in vietnam. like my son, earned the bronze star. my son did not win the purple

heart, but butch got the purple heart. came back home to rita, settled in cincinnati. became a trucker represented by the teamsters, then president of the local. honest and decent labor leader. butch faced severe cuts in his pension and became a fierce advocate for protecting the pensions of his fellow workers. butch died more than six years ago. rita has carried on his legacy ever since. with democrats in congress, the leadership of marty walsh, we fought for the butch lewis act to protect pensions for millions of workers and retirees. i argued for its passage on a path that was signed and a promise that i kept when i included the butch lewis act in the american rescue plan. [cheers and applause]

now the employee plans will rely -- remain solid for decades guaranteed through 2051. these retirees, the ones that lost their benefits will have them restored retroactively. [cheers and applause] turning a promised -- a promise broken to a promise kept. it matters to workers, families, it matters to the country. host: potential legislation ahead in the u.s. senate democrats offering a plan to cut drug costs, top senate democrats wednesday releasing an updated plan aimed at lowering the costs of prescription drugs, signaling progress on a crucial piece of their bid to salvage some of the stalled social safety net climate tax bill. leaders negotiated the drug pricing proposal primarily with joe manchin of west virginia, a

conservative leaning democrat who abruptly walked away from talks on the policy bill in december, effectively stopping it in its tracks. they released the plan this week in an attempt to smooth the path for scaled-down tax and climate spending packages they hope to get through the senate earlier -- later this month over republican opposition paid for in part by the prescription drug proposal projected to save the government tens of billions in the coming years and under the new measure medicare for the first time would be allowed to directly regulate prescription drug prices, capping the out of pocket amount that medicare patients can be asked to pay for prescriptions at $2000 per year, limit the amount that drug companies can increase prices each year and make the vaccines free for those patients according to a draft put forward on wednesday. and the ranking member on the house budget committee, kevin brady, saying $1 trillion

slimmed-down bill back at her to raise taxes heading into recession, with higher business costs equaling higher prices, more spending equaling higher prices with fixes and no real that reduction here, just gimmicks. let's hear more on your thoughts on which party do you trust to protect workers. paul is on the independent-minded medford, new york, go ahead. paul: thank you for taking my call. i don't trust either party but i lean towards the republicans. i was, the gentleman before wanted to know. i worked for private industry for 30 years as a truck driver, retired and i did ok for myself. i never needed a union to come to my aid. and that's about, that's about it. thank you. host: lawrence is in jacksonville, florida,

democratic line. caller: yes, sir. i'm retired military and i joined when i was 17 years old. the reason i joined the military was because it was hard for me to get a job, so i joined the military so that i could have a future and as i was working and then retired from the military 22 years later, most of the people that i was around were republicans. they would work under the table, pay a little bit better income tax, pay little bit to social security. and as they got older, they complained about social security don't pay me enough. but you didn't pay nothing into it. also at the same time i watched them bring immigrants to the united states across the border

so they could work for cheap labor. they had people right here in this country was willing to work , they didn't want to pay them. one of the biggest things that i found in life that everybody should serve at least two years of government service and today we have a lot of people that have no love for their country. thank you. host: all right, ohio next, this is john, democrats line. caller: yes, sir. bill, thank you. what i'm going to say is this. we have been living under a treasonous government since 1964. when our own cia murdered john fitzgerald kennedy.

i've known it for 35 years. it came out in february. fast forward to that, bill clinton sold us slave labor in china. and everything we buy is made off the poorest individuals, slave labor. today, $.20 to the dollar in third world countries. we have no problem with that and no shame. the woman from michigan was spot on. the young man from north carolina was spot on. we all live on social security retirement now, which doesn't pay the bills. let alone give you a house in florida there, mr. had a union job for 40 years. that was from 1969 up. after 1994, our country is dissolving in front of our eyes. we are all suffering.

so, that's what i've got to say, bill. people, we are in trouble and i hope you all learn to speak another language because this country is dissolving. host: let's go to dj in texas on the republican line. caller: yeah, good morning. dj here. it's pretty obvious, you can hear it from both sides, people calling from either party or the independent party that this day and age, people are not trusting either side. the only ones we can really trust are the people that run businesses. i'm not talking businesses that send their products out to another country to bring back and sell here. i'm talking about businesses that manufacture in this country, sell in this country. talking about the fact that all of this has been changed. there has been a complete reconstruction of the economics in this world.

you can see that these unions, and i'm a union member of the teamsters local 399, the hollywood teamsters, we work in the film and television industry . we've been here since 1988. i'm also a screen actors guild member and i can tell you right now that i have seen a vast change in our local union as far as, as far as how they backup the workers. i have got a union now that will not back me up and say hey, you are not going to force me back into the pain of our workers. i've seen a union now with our funds towards private ideologies, like pride month. pride month is not a union activity. ok? i don't know how many other teamster locals are starting to do this, but there will be a

filing of a class-action lawsuit against of the teamsters 399 union, ok, for utilizing member money and sending it to these private ideologies that support pride month. they sent out a whole bunch of propaganda about you supporting pride month. did i vote on this? did they send me anything to vote on this to say hey we are going to utilize some of our funds to promote this? no. did they ask the members? no. host: did you raise these concerns over this with your local union? leaders? caller: i'm going to this week. i just had an appointment with an attorney yesterday. i'm going to get the best class-action attorney and we are going to file this thing. ok? you cannot be taking union funds and putting them into private

ideologies. want to support another union activity, fine, i've been there. caller: we've got it -- host: we've got about five minutes left for calls and comments on the opening question. wanted to update you on the resignation of boris johnson, reporting on that that happened in the last 15 to 20 minutes. resigned after mutiny in his party. they write that the prime minister resigned following a rebellion in his conservative party and said in an address to the nation that the process of choosing a new prime minister should begin now. "it is clearly now the will of the parliamentary conservative party that there should be a new leader and new prime minister, and the process of choosing the new leader should begin now, saying the timeline will be announced next week. johnson became prime minister nearly three years ago and in recent months has been engulfed in a series of scandals forcing even his most stalwart supporters to abandon him.

nearly 60 members of the government, including five cabinet members resigned since tuesday furious about the botched handling of the resignation of his former chief deputy whip chris pincher, accused of groping two men last week. let's get to john in ashland, ohio, on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning, c-span. i love this program, i love this open forum. it's a great program. you know, i spent 12 years in the military. i came home. i traveled. i've done things. i've seen america be outsourced. i've seen ford motor disappear. i've seen general motors disappear. i've seen the steel mill disappear. i've seen cleveland shrink from 829,000 people down to 300,000. it's really sad. america has been outsourced.

on top of all of that, there are no real jobs out there. there are no more working-class jobs out there. you know what? our congress has been paid off. our unions have been paid off. money runs deep. it's sad that america has become this. we went from the united states to the divided states and we are letting our own congress divide us. clowns in game show hosts destroying america. making friends with our enemies and turning our friends against us. this is ridiculous. host: we have been talking about trusting a party in terms of workers but coincidentally a lot of comments about trusting the government's as well. this headline, american trust that government institution hitting new lows.

things like congress and the criminal justice system, the media, eroding in the past year according to an annual gallup poll. reporting that not a single one saw an increase in the number of respondents who said that they trust the institution and that some of the declines are quite striking, 23% of americans saying they trust the presidency. the supreme court saw an 11 point drop in trust this year. the survey was taken before the reason abortion ruling. congress managed to decline a bit further, from 12% to just 7%. let's hear from mary grace, florida, democratic line. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i trust the democratic party. and the unions.

the unions need improvement. i'm part of a union right now myself and i have had some issues i've had addressed and i felt as though they didn't meet my needs regarding pay. i'm off a month and a half again because i am a new employee and now it looks like you don't even get a cost-of-living raise here in florida where i work. so, it's a state university, so, i do think it needs improvement. but the party that i can trust the most, not because i -- i am a democrat, but time and time again, i see the erosion of the republican party to the trump party. i have voted in the past for republicans. i prefer to vote for the person that does the right thing, the

right policy changes, the right laws. i think that people are conflating these things from andrew and silver springs on the independent line. oh hey there, i am glad i can get on. i hear a lot of negativity. i think we have had improvements through the years. i think the democrats go after a big problem like health and they came up with the affordable care act and now we have pre-existing conditions are a thing of the past, that is not how it used to be. if you had a mental health issue or a pre-existing condition you are out of luck, you could not get covered. good things can happen. the republicans do have a point.

there is no accountability with the retirement plan. a business can go out of business and it can be mismanaged, there is no accountability. we need a better system. we appreciate your calls and there is more ahead here on the washington journal. of next we are joined by who is president and ceo for physicians for reproductive health. she will talk about how the roe v. wade is impacting medical providers. summer and washington mead -- mean codels, andrew desiderio tagged along on one of those trips. we will talk to him a little later.

[music]. >> with roe v. wade overturned c-span is looking back on the votes from the supreme court's latest term. watch tonight at 8:00 eastern. c-span now, or c-span.org. now available at the c-span shop c-span's 2022 directory, go there today and order a copy of the c-span directory. it is your guide to the federal directory. also, contact information to the

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no matter where you are from or where you stand on the issues, c-span is america's network. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. if it happens here, or here, or here, or anywhere that matters. america is watching on c-span, powered by cable. washington journal continues. host: we are joined by dr. jamila perritt who is the president of physicians for reproductive health. i want to talk about reproductive health in the wake of the supreme court's decision. talk about physicians for reproductive health. what is your mission and how are you funded? guest: we are a network of more than 500 physicians and

supporters around the country who are working to expand access to comprehensive reproductive health care and we do that and a number of ways, just focusing on the medicine and the science. bringing that privilege to conversations on reproductive health to the policy and media space and talking about what it means to attempt to access reproductive health care in this country. host: who supports your organization, how are you funded? guest: we are privately funded. host: when we talk about reproductive health, define what that means for us? guest: it is anything dealing with the health and well-being of the reproductive system. it includes folks that are providing care, all of those who provide clinical care, also

researchers and those who are collecting evidence that we used to support the work that we do. host: places that have been labeled abortion clinics, there is a lot more going on in terms of the health of the woman? guest: abortion does not occur and vacuum. the majority of people seeking abortions are already parents. places purporting abortion care provide the variety of care services. host: how do women pay for reproductive health? guest: it varies. we are here in washington dc. there are huge gaps in insurance coverage. in some states, in some cities

and counties it is worse than others. things like the affordable care act, preventative care is covered. for people who are uninsured, just trying to get routine screenings can be almost impossible because it is so expensive. the out-of-pocket costs for reproductive health care can be huge and insurmountable for some people. host: what has been like in women centers since the supreme court ruling effectively overturning roe v. wade? guest: it is devastating, there is a lot of grief and sorrow. our job is to take care of people and so to have to turn people away because of this ruling and not to be able to provide care that we know our community needs has had a devastating impact on the clinic and staff and the providers who are working there and of course

the community and folks who are seeking care. it has not been a surprise. we knew that this was coming. we have seen states rollback access to abortion care for more than a decade. beginning with the roe ruling in 1973. many of us who provide care have been preparing for this in some way expecting that this would come especially when we saw the appointment of so many judges in the last administration. host: what did that preparation look like? guest: broadening the safety net. supporting folks who would need to travel. broadening the community-based support services. we have also seen work in

academic spaces to train more providers in abortion care and train people who would have to travel. host: i know it is early, what are you hearing about women traveling to other states where abortion services are still available? guest: even before abortion was legal in 1973, women travel to get abortion care. this ruling does not change that. but folks who cannot travel will be forced to carry pregnancies to term. we are seeing not play out. if you are traveling across multiple state lines and you need hotel rooms, what do we do about childcare for the other children you have? our safety net is not prepared to absorb that cost.

just doing what we can for folks who are willing to travel. host: how do each states laws affect abortion rights is still a large part of the country in green here with abortion rights protected, well throughout the south end into the upper plains, south dakota, wyoming and idaho, abortion banned by trigger laws, what do these trigger laws mean? guest: these are laws that are on the books that if roe is overturned, abortion is automatically banned in that state. there were 13 or 14 states that immediately saw abortion being banned. we also know that there are a number of states that are committed to banning abortion that did not have laws on the

books. we will see several states that will ban abortion altogether. host: our guest is dr. jamila perritt who is the president and ceo of physician for reproductive care. our numbers are (202) 748-8000, (202) 748-8001. with these trigger laws implementing more restrictive procedures, what do you think comes next? guest: the reality is that no amount of banning abortion has ever stopped abortion. we will continue to see women seek care outside of the formal medical system whether it is legal or not.

prior to the advent of medical abortion it can be deadly. the pills that we use for medication abortion, this same pills we use for pregnancy loss are safe and effective. the ability for people to access those medications is not medically risky. that is a good thing. the risk here, that is what i worry about is the risk of criminalization. people have been criminalized for managing their own care. when you think about who is at most risk for their reproductive health outcomes, we know it will be folks in low income communities, communities of

color, young folks. host: you talked about medical abortions, i assume you are talking about plan b? guest: plan b and medication abortions are two different things. plan b is something we call emergency contraception and it will not cause an abortion if you take it when you are already pregnant. what it does is delays ovulation. if you take it after unprotected intercourse it delays ovulation so you do not get fertilization and you do not become pregnant. medication abortion anaerobes and already implanted pregnancies so those are two different things. plan b you can get at your pharmacy or over-the-counter. there is another prescription that we issue as well. medication abortion is highly regulated and you need to obtain

it through a health care provider. host: is there a concern that states will interfere with those trying to obtain those medication? guest: we have already seen people interfere with those trying to obtain those medications. that is one of the reasons why it is so important we differentiate plan b from the medication abortion pill. banning abortion is only the tip of the iceberg. we will absolutely see the

rollback of contraception access. we will see the rollback on plan b and emergency contraception. we have already heard states talk about the elimination of iud's even though they do not cause abortions either. when we talk about this issue narrowing, we miss the bigger picture. it has never been about abortion, it is always been about power and control. host: what is behind that bush on contraception in your view? guest: patriarchy. the desire to control reproductive decisions. especially seeing more and more of this in this country as it becomes increasingly brown. as communities of color grow, we

see it more and more. you can see this at the state level. the more restrictive health care and reproductive laws are. it is fear about the growing community here and the desire to increase the population and valued fertility for some. the downside is that when you ban abortion everyone is impacted. it doesn't just impact one community, everyone is impacted when you ban access to abortion care. host: our guest, dr. jamila perritt got her medical degree at howard university. let's hear from ray. caller: thank you for sharing all of this information. i have a couple of questions

that you may have addressed earlier. what are the implications for people who are trying to get pregnant who may suffer a miscarriage or those who want to go through ivf if fertilization, there are so many questions i have, what about people who need abortion care for wanted pregnancy? the broader implications for people who want to get pregnant who may not realize how the overturning of roe v. wade may impact them what are things they need to be concerned about and

what are things people can do if they are concerned? guest: the implications are large. you think about the laws that are restricting abortion care they are restricting access to all kinds of other medical care including management of pregnancy loss and miscarriage including fertility and ivf treatment. we know the impact will be devastating. i will take the medication abortion pills as an example. when we saw the expansion of telemedicine, we also began to see the expansion of telemedicine for abortion. some states are trying to eliminate abortion services, they also tried to do carveouts for telehealth for abortion care

including the banning of the medications we use for medication abortions. the medicines we use for abortions are the same we use for miscarriages. if you and those medications for abortions not realizing that we use those for miscarriages, this as one of the deep concerns we have. i provide care in the community that i grew up in. we are connected to the science and medicine in a different way. these legislatures that limit health care, they are not grounded in science and medicine in a real way. host: it sounds like in some of these cases you have real ethical challenges based on what

the new law may be in that state. guest: can you imagine going to see your doctor and they make a decision based on a fear of criminal prosecution? we see people presenting for fear of miscarriage sitting in the hospital bleeding internally waiting for the dr. who is waiting on the phone with a lawyer. host: our lines are for eastern and central time zones (202)

748-8000, western time zones (202) 748-8002. caller: i started reading about the history of abortion care and how it was legal and controlled primarily by women until the mid-1800s in the introduction of the american medical association and men taking over control of women's health care because of wanting the money from that and taking control over our bodies. the history of men taking over

women's health care has impacted women's health care. guest: that was not a history i learned during my medical training, that was something i learned much later in my professional career. particularly in the south, midwives that provided care in the communities were undermined and discredited by the american medical association in order to do just what the caller said to capitalize on reproductive health care. we also know that the field of obstetrics has a dark history among black and indigenous history. the father of gynecological

history operated on black women without anesthesia. we have a lot to reckon with in order to move forward and eliminate these inequities in maternal and infant health. host: as a practicing ob/gyn, what are you to the political side of this into the organization that you now run? guest: i grew up in d.c. and it is hard to live in d.c. and not feel the factor of politics. it is impossible to live here and not see the impact of public policy on our community. i always knew i would be a doctor. i don't have a memory of wanting to be anything else. i always knew there was only so

much i could do in my private practice and that i needed to get to the people who were making them laws that were hurting my community. that was what drew me to public policy. this avenue gave me away to shift public policy. we do congressional testimony and train doctors to do briefings and i am allowed into spaces that i would otherwise never be let into. the question i asked myself and i asked doctors that i train, when i am invited into that room, what do we say? we have a powerful voices physicians and we have to use it to expand the health of our

community. host: my state takes pre-and postnatal care seriously. we take great care of babies one year and beyond. is that typical for most states? guest: there is no typical. we have wonderful champions in congress, lauren underwood has done amazing work for my return of maternal morbidity. insurance is a good predictor of care. several states opted not to expand medicaid. that improves maternal and infant health.

host: does it get harder since many of these states have passed more restrictive abortion laws? guest: we cannot talk about abortions in a vacuum. we have to talk about it within the larger picture of someone's life. host: eastern and central (202) 748-8000 time zones, mountain and pacific (202) 748-8001. caller: my question is about

drugs. abortion drugs that the guest was talking about, even though it is used to treat abortions and miscarriages. even if the drug will not be used anymore, will it still be used to treat miscarriages? host: what is your second question? caller: with full-term pregnancies, i have heard of two or three ladies going to full-term because they have had

two or three abortions? host: when you call in just a reminder to mute your volume. guest: there is no number of abortions that will impact your fertility or lose a pregnancy moving forward. abortions whether through medications or procedural, the risk of complication is low. it does not cause miscarriages. the medication and whether or not it will be available to treat other things. the medication that we use for medication abortion is also used to treat other autoimmune disorders. we are not seeing it being regulated in other ways.

the restriction say that if this medication is used for abortions then it is banned. we have to be very clear that these bands are intentionally targeting abortions but we do not know what the impacts will be on our access to care for other medical conditions. caller: i was calling because i have had a partial miscarriage. i had to take oral medications. i had to get a d&c. i was bleeding terribly. i worry about all the women who have to wait. i have had friends with cancer,

luckily she was able to give birth. i have had friends whose baby was born with a terrible defect. unfortunately, the baby died within hours. i had friends whose baby was terminated because they didn't want her to suffer. i had friends with wanted pregnancies and i don't think people think about that. they say it is important for women to keep their legs shed. i just want you to comment on all the things women have to worry about. there are so many things we have

to worry about. host: there are several things there if you would like to respond. guest: i am so sorry to hear about your experience with miscarriage. that is a real risk, that is something we are already seeing in emergency rooms around the country. the obscurities of the law, the confusion it is causing. people's health care providers not knowing what to do and doing exactly what this caller mentioned, waiting until the person's life is in jeopardy to make the call because of the fear of being prosecuted. the impact is going to be far-reaching. we do not know what is going to happen with embryos. we have seen these personhood bills sweep the country. the impact of that on

infertility care, on assisted reproductive technology remains to be seen. host: headline from the insider says the biden administration will make abortion pills more widely available after roe's demise. what do you think about biden's effort here? guest: i applaud the effort to expand access to medication. the way that medication abortion is regulated is not based on science and medicine. this is a safe medication. more people have overdoses from tylenol than they have on this medication. really following the science which is exactly what this

administration is saying, we will follow the science here and allow access to this medication. any time we use science and data to inform policy decisions is a win. in terms of other things, what we are asking for this administration to do is to do everything they can including a public health emergency to broaden access to emergency care. we did not get in this predicament overnight. this is through 40 years of organizing from folks who were trying to eliminate abortion access. we need to get organized, think about what admiral writes protecting abortion access. expanding access to insurance coverage for undocumented folks. you mentioned the momnibus bill.

guest: it is a package of bills. how can we bolster parenting people. it includes a number of things, what does that look like? we are thinking about expanding medicaid but also, providing support for those who suffer disorders. expanding the perinatal workforce. how do we train doctors, nurses, midwives who provide care that is culturally responsible and free from bias. it is a multipronged approach to understanding how everything impacts our ability to survive and thrive in our pregnancies. host: let's hear from melinda calling from oklahoma. caller: good morning, i have

been very concerned on the news of a 10-year-old girl from ohio and i know that there are some states that are going to allow exceptions for rape and incest. are women going to have to prove that they were raped and how does that work? we have people who have their rate kids that are two years behind? it just seems like this is going to be another avenue for antiabortion people to make it impossible for that to happen. i am wondering what your thoughts are on that. enqueue. thank you. guest: the case in ohio on this

child who was assaulted and needed health care had to travel to get that care. these stories are not original. they are very common. those are the kind of folks that we take care of. ever since 1975, we attach to our appropriation bill we had something called the hyde amendment. it banned abortion coverage through federal dollars for all folks receiving federal dollars. your abortion is not covered. it had narrow coverage, but the caller is absolutely right. when i tried to navigate those exceptions, it can be nearly impossible. filing a police report, proving

that you have been assaulted or raped. for many people, it is not an avenue that they can go down. what happens if your abuser holds your insurance policy? navigating these exceptions are not realistic or possible and they don't provide any protection for the individual who is experiencing this tragic event. our argument is that we need to eliminate the hyde amendment and all of these things putting these exceptions in place. people are not able to navigate those exceptions and they are not providing care. host: this is carrie from wisconsin. kerry in wisconsin you are on the air. caller: thank you and good

morning doctor. on the screen right now they are showing women only and it struck me that using the word maternal you are talking about health care after a word becoming a mother. the main goal is to prevent women from having unwanted babies. what is our government doing right now and what are their efforts to prevent unwanted pregnancies from happening in the first place? birth control pills, things like that, iud's? so excess of, so accessible to

people that they can see it as another choice? guest: contraception is not an abortion prevention tool. these things are separate issue but equally as important. we don't want to talk about expanding contraception as a way to ending abortion. they will need abortion for a number of reasons. it is important to mention is the way she said unwanted pregnancy. access to contraception is one but it is not the only one. unplanned pregnancy

is mine. it really is a broad approach, expanding access to contraception is one. insurance coverage allows for iud's and long acting reversible options. it can be almost impossible to access because they are so expensive. host: i wanted get your views on the abortion landscape, the impact on patient privacy and what it means for medical providers.

the health secretary had comments on that. >> as well as for providers who offer reproductive health care services. i am directing the department to examine its authority under the emergency medical treatment act to ensure that critical judgment of doctors and hospitals is supported in treating pregnant patients including those experiencing pregnancy loss and abortion care is important to stabilize patients. host: your thoughts? guest: patient privacy is a huge concern. and we start to see things ramping up and their desire to punish patients and providers.

privacy concerns become much more real. as we are talking with folks with what it means to access care and how their data is being cap safe. we have our phones all the time, we are using absent doing searches. all of those things have been used took criminalize folks. it is not just when you're interfacing with your health care provider. we also do a lot of work with health care providers reminding them about hippo requirements, patient protection. making sure that we keep health care information personal and also understand that there is no mandatory reporting law around self managed abortion. turning over our medical records, turning over our data is not something that we are mandated to do so encouraging

doctors to treat this medical information is private because it is. host: a question for you from deborah, what are doctors going to do when it seven weeks there is a heart beat at the waters have broken risking death and abortion is illegal? guest: whether is it seven weeks or 17 weeks, we say the same thing in terms of pregnancy loss and how to care for an individual. it is complicated because in the end, we should be doing what we have been trained to do, we should be taking care of that person experiencing laws and not figuring out who the lawyer taking care of the hospital today and if we are going to be prosecuted. asking doctors to do anything other than the medicine you have been trained to provide complicates the issue.

it is not the right way to take care of people. host: are more ob/gyn having to have legal practice is in layers nearby? guest: medical staff is concerned about what our risks are in continuing to care for pregnant people. many of my colleagues where abortions are bands are deciding whether they need to leave the state altogether. what will that mean for reproductive health care? host: let's hear from jessica and wichita kansas. caller: i think it is extremely shameful for the supreme court for them to overturn roe v. wade. it has been protecting women's right for nearly 50 years. i have problems regulating my.

period and i am worried that they will overturn birth control to help that. what would be our options if they do overturn that? guest: express outrage and anger. i believe that what the caller is expressing anger at this new reality. there are lots of reasons why people are using contraception. we should not be interrogating folks on why they use contraception. that is not the role we are here to play.

the supreme court decided to turn this back to the states. this is now an opportunity at the state level to fight at the state level and to know the let the folks know we will not stand for it. state legislators are also attacking voting rights. we should exercise our right to vote while they are overturning our human rights. host: our guest is president of physicians for reproductive health. thank you so much for being with us this morning. host: summertime in washington means it is time for codels , overseas trips from members of congress. we will be joined by politico's

andrew desiderio. in later, reade pickert will be here to talk about the economy and the potential for a recession. all that and more on the washington journal. >> c-span brings you an unfiltered view of the government. from the halls of government to the daily press briefings to the remarks from the president. scan the qr code to sign up for this email and stay up-to-date. at least six presidents recorded conversations while in office,

here many of those conversation during season two of c-span's podcast presidential recordings. nixon's texts, they are 100% unfiltered. the main thing is, my heart goes out to those people with the best of intentions are overzealous as i am sure you know, i tell you, if i could spend a little more time being a politician and less time being a president i would have kicked their bots out. t. >> c-span has unfiltered coverage of the u.s. response to russia's invasion of ukraine. we also have international

perspectives from the united nations and statements from foreign leaders. all on the c-span networks, c-span mobile lab and c-span.org/ukraine. our web resource page where you can watch the latest videos on demand and follow tweets from journalist on the ground. go to c-span.org/ukraine. c-spanshop.org is c-span's online store. rouse through our latest collection of c-span products, books, home to core and accessories. shop now or any time at c-spanshop.org. washington journal continues. host: andrew desiderio is with

this. he covers foreign policy issues. he is with us this morning to talk about codels the whole purpose and reason and a little bit of history behind delegation trips. first of all defined what a codels is. guest: it is an abbreviation former congressional delegation. they knew they could use it to their advantage, the senate is going to have to vote on nato's exception for finland and sweden and that is why they went to nato to deliver that message on behalf of the administration. this is not a controversial

issue in the united states. there are so many issues that divide us when we are at home. this is one of those that we are all united on. it serves a specific purpose, and it reinforces biden's message. host: although these events do get covered, you were with the trip the entire duration? guest: i was with them in madrid. the first two stops were in finland and sweden. i linked up with them in madrid where the nato summit was held. it is rare that they bring reporters along on these trips or give this type of access. the reasons are twofold, for security reasons. in foreign countries, the security is not great. the second reason, for resources. they travel on military planes.

they want to have these more intimate settings with themselves and staff. they have never thought to bring reporters along but my goal has been to try to get on one of these trips and i have swung and missed a lot of times. i was really happy i was able to go last week because there is so much to get done outside of the capital, outside of the noise that we covered day in and day out and it really informs the work. host: it was timely in terms of the news and what was going on in europe with the announcement about turkey's acceptance about finland and sweden. guest: that happened on the first day of the summit. they had a perfect messaging opportunity right when they landed on the ground. i had already been there for a day and was planning to ask them about all of this and the meanings they were planed to have.

the timing just worked out really well for them. it is not often that happens. often, they have to do the legwork on behalf of the administration. the work had essentially been done for them on this specific point when they had landed. host: andrew's thesis, it is on politico.com. for more than half a century they have found diplomatic opportunities during overseas trips that voters rarely hear about. guest: i think it is because codels get a bad rap. they think it is a taxpayer vacation. in some instances, it can be. they go to fancy dinners and meet with important people around the world. on this trip, it is 95% work.

they are pulling 16, 18 hour days. they met with five to six liters a day. they meet with heads of state. these are grueling trips and they do help inform the work that they do on capital hill on national security issues but they foster bipartisan relationships that they can use to help get things done and other issues. host: the lines are host: for (202) 748-8000 for democrats, (202) 748-8001 for republicans and (202) 748-8002 independents. you write about chris murphy's work on the gun control work.

began in the balkans. they had no reason to work on gun violence. they are from different regions in less than two years ago chris murphy was fundraising for tillis'opponent. their trip to the balkans changed all of that. the trip took tillis and murphy away from the capital and built a relationship that proved pivotal to the gun deal. guest: senator tillis said there was no reason for him and chris murphy to link up. they had had pleasant conversations in hallways over the years but they had never worked together on something over the years. especially not something as

challenging as gun violence. this is meant a lot to him over the decades. what senator tillis credited this bipartisan agreement with an far as getting it done with is the fact that they travel together, got to know each other, trust each other and once we needed to come together on something. let's try to link up and get something done. host: you had the performance on the floor of the senate. in this case, they are largely removed from the view of the public and reporters. guest: senator murphy was actively fundraising on behalf of senator tillis'opponent. he wants to make sure democrats

get a majority. it made sense that he fund raised on behalf of senator tillis'opponent. but all of that went away when they travel together this year. they found a common purpose and built a relationship and trust that served as a relationship that got this gun legislation passed. host: one of the interesting parts of this article is the revelation that senator john mccain had on these congressional delegation trips. guest: senator mccain served as the navy's liaison to capitol hill, particularly the senate back when joe biden was first elected to the senate. he called him the young senator from delaware at the time. john mccain was photographed

carrying his bags. these codels was how this relationship was started. they linked up on so many issues , these codels have served as the foundation on getting these deals done. host: from your experience, what is the foreign view of these congressional trips? guest: foreign leaders meet with these members of congress and view them as americans and that is how these members go into these meetings. you are all on the same team. it is not a partisan message, it is a message that can help the

administration. when joni ernst met with the japanese prime minister, because iowa and japan have an expansive beef trade. there are many issues that senators can meet with these leaders on. host: let's first go to st. louis, missouri. caller: good morning c-span. you mentioned meeting with numerous foreign leaders. you mentioned j pan. apan. are there any other foreign leaders? guest: they met with the foreign leader of germany, estonia,

sweden. sweden was a huge focus of the summit. given that they are trying to become a member of nato. they alsothey also had a one hog with president biden that the republicans emphasized they wished they had more time one-on-one with the president back here in washington because they founded it to be very beneficial there was nothing but praise for president biden from those republican members. you can tell they genuinely appreciated the opportunity to meet with him, even though there are so many things they will argue about in washington. there were so many things that brought them together at the nato summit in that one hour meeting was an encapsulation of that. host: next up is grant here in the nation's capital. caller: i want to dispute the idea that all americans are vastly in favor of nato expansion. only about half support that.

looking at the issue of congressional trips abroad, many americans are opposed to that. the single top destination for any congressional jumping on an airplane if you look at the data are privately funded trips to israel. if you also look at a poll for that, about 66% of americans think they should return to their districts, which is their real responsibility, as opposed to taking lavish $10,000 junkets to israel. several congressional's are over there right now. doing what? who knows. americans are not pro-nato expansion and would rather see the members of congress doing their jobs in the united states. guest: i think that criticism is exactly why these members of

congress have not brought reporters on these trips before and have tried to keep them out of the public view as much as they can. often times you will see a press release after the trip sang a bipartisan group of house members went to so-and-so country, here is what we did in who we met with. having it covered in real time is different from that and i think members are still sensitive to this idea, this criticism they are just using taxpayer money to go on vacation. to be fair, i found last week that is not the case. host: who funds these trips? guest: it is funded by the taxpayer. it is organized by the legislative affairs team at the state department. the woman who runs the legislative affairs department at the state department is a former foreign policy advisor to senator jeanne shaheen, the lead democrat on this codel last week.

i quoted her as well as senator jeanne shaheen about how these codels are very beneficial. she has organized so many of these on capitol hill and serving in the administration. they candle all of logistics and setting up the meetings with the foreign leaders. security protocols, all of that. host: you write about the origins of these trips. guest: dean atchinson was the very first assistant secretary of state for what is now called legislative affairs. he went on to become secretary of state. his goal in the truman administration was to use members of congress to the administration's benefit to reinforce the message, but also try to help their diplomatic goals more broadly. last week's trip to the nato summit with the purpose of

promoting finland and sweden in nato is a perfect example of that. it is something that specifically requires congressional buy-in. the senate has to vote on it. they are on track to vote before the august recess. it is something they would direct say in and the ministration has to make nice with congress on a bunch of different topics, but especially where congress has veto powers. the gentleman mentioned before that americans are wary of nato expansion. this will get 98 or 99 votes in the senate. i think that is an overwhelming statement of support for nato expansion. host: the line for democrats is (202) 748-8000, for it republicans, (202) 748-8001, for independents, (202) 748-8002, or send us a text at (202) 748-8032

. you write their members who do not want to take these congressional delegation chips -- trips. you mentioned ted cruz. what is his reason for not wanting to be on these trips? guest: it is members of congress who have professed ideological purity they want to show they are pushing back on the other party, they are fighters, they are not engaged in the traditional dealmaking in washington that has failed the american people over a number of decades. i think the main criticism from people on the left and the right who do not go on these codels is they are not invited, and two they are not willing to engage or entertain the give-and-take compromise often required for going on these trips and for getting things done outside of those trips. senators tillis and murphy came

together on a once in a generation gun violence bill. if tillis and murphy were entrenched in their respective camps on this issue and were not interested in dealing with the other side and making a deal and were very distrustful of the other side, maybe legislation would not have gotten done on that front. they both leave it was in the interest of the country in the interest of themselves on a political level to engage with each other and get this done. host: it appears senator tillis forgave senator murphy for fundraising on his opponent. guest: exactly. this stuff happens on capitol hill. it is not often terribly vicious. you realize republicans want to be in control and the democrats want to be in control. the way to do that is to try to get as many people from your own party elected as possible even if it goes against someone you might like. host: let's hear from carolyn in

kentucky. you are on the air. caller: i am so glad andrew is on. i've been wanting this question answered for so long. back in the trump administration, may 3 years ago, seven republicans went to russia. why did they go? it was so hush hush. it was on the fourth of july when they should be celebrating here. they were in russia and i've often thought it was to get whatever vladimir putin had on trump. it seems so mysterious that seven republicans went to russia. i would love to hear what you say. thank you. guest: i wrote about this a little bit in my article on codels. it was seven republican senators in july of 2018. four years ago.

their goal was to ease tensions with russia. obviously the u.s. intelligence community had found russia was interfering in our elections. the u.s. had opposed a wave of unprecedented sanctions on the russian government and these republican senators apparently wanted to go. in their own words, ease tensions with russia and try to get past these issues. to be fair, there were democrats also try to go to russia. senator shaheen tried to go with a bipartisan group any years ago , but she was denied a visa because of her strong criticisms of russia over the years and her support for sanctions against russia. in solidarity the republican said senator shaheen was not granted a visa, so i will not go either. that was a very important moment. it shows that often times, even when there is so much partisanship in washington,

these members can stick up for each other when they feel like they are on an american team. when one of the members of their team is being slighted, they want to make a statement and push back. to be fair, these republican senators who went, it was not necessarily shrouded in secrecy. they talked about it at the time, they did media in russia. i remember writing about it at the time. i do not think it was necessarily secretive and i do not think their goals were secretive. host: with that have been arranged by the state department? guest: any time a member of congress travels abroad, the state department handles all of that. it was the goal of the trump administration to try to use republican senators to their advantage to ease tensions with russia and get them to portray these specific messages, they had an easy way to do that and that is what they try to do with this trip. i do not think it was

necessarily shrouded in secrecy. everybody knew they were going and i and other reporters were covering it at the time. host: you bring up an interesting point regarding jeanne shaheen, you say she was denied a visa into russia. the republican senators got that. there are countries where you do have to get a visa, to get into that country. how often is that an issue with some of these trips? guest: not very often, especially because senators are often treated as diplomats. we have an embassy in moscow right now despite the very contentious relationship between washington and moscow. there are diplomats who have to be in moscow right now. there are americans who have to be in moscow. it was surprising this happened. senator shaheen -- long before russia interfered in the 2016

election, she was ahead on recognizing russia as a threat to eastern europe and recognizing that russia's goal was to expand their territory, which is what we are seeing right now. senator shaheen was ahead of that. host: one of our previous callers use the phrase lavish junket to describe some of these trips. was your trip with the senators a lavish junket? guest: we were in madrid, which was a beautiful city. you can call it lavish if you want. it was a working trip. these were very long days. they spent long days meeting with these foreign leaders. i attended a reception later that night with the residents of the u.s. ambassador in madrid. it can seem like it is lavish but i can tell you firsthand a

lot does get done and relationships get built. senator tillis and senator dick durbin had been negotiating on immigration for a long time. they let that fall by the wayside. on this trip last week senator durbin told me he and tillis restarted their immigration tops and valid when they get back to washington they will drill down on these details. that is one of many examples of members using these trips for productive reasons outside of a foreign policy goal, a foreign policy topic. host: to spouses or significant others accompany members on these trips? guest: sometimes. the state department gets to decide whether their senators and house members are decide to bring a guest. it depends on the nature of the trip, where they are going to.

whether it is a fact-finding mission or oversight mission. last week the top republican on the senate foreign relations committee travel to ukraine and other parts of europe and what he described as an oversight mission to examine how u.s. aid to ukraine is being spent and how the weapons are being transferred to ukraine and through other parts of europe. that was a trip that was more labor-intensive in terms of it being an oversight mission, a fact-finding mission. they were trying to reinforce a message on behalf of the administration. host: those missions are approved by the state department. in a war zone there must be military involvement as well. guest: correct. i remember interviewing mitch mcconnell after he got back from ukraine. that was a secretive trip.

very few people knew about it. even people on the senators own staff did not know about it until they were on the ground. they did not send out the press release until they had left ukrainian territory because you are sending these very powerful people into a war zone meeting with the president of ukraine. this is the kind of thing where security is paramount and often times the u.s. embassy will handle the security when senators are in a specific country. obviously they did not want to talk about it that much and how they got into ukraine. host: the political nature of these trips, into question from catherine on twitter on who provided the funding for nancy pelosi to see the pope and take communion when she cannot take it in the united states? guest: she was in rome last

week. it seems like she turned it into a vacation because she went to florence afterwards. the way these trips work is if it is for an official purpose the government picks up the tab. often times members will tack on a personal vacation either before or after an official visit somewhere. this is something that it seems like she did that. i will say she is someone who requires around-the-clock security, she is second in line to the presidency. wherever she goes, wherever mitch mcconnell goes, wherever chuck schumer goes, the taxpayers are paying for their security. that is built into the cost of these trips. host: interesting story behind the scenes in washington. codels. i'll foreign travel helps congress at home. andrew desiderio, thanks for being with us. guest: thank you.

host: up next we will talk to reade pickert with bloomberg news about the state of the u.s. economy and increasing concerns about a potential recession. ♪ >> with roe v. wade overturned, c-span is looking back at the most consequential and high-profile rulings from the supreme court's latest term. watch west virginia versus environmental protection agency, the case that led to the court limiting the epa authority to regulate greenhouse -- initiatives. watch tonight at 8:00 on c-span, c-span now, or c-span.org. >> now available at the c-span shop, c-span's 2022 congressional directory.

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and easy way to watch when you cannot see it live. >> there are a lot of places to get political information. only at c-span do you get it straight from the source. no matter where you are from, where you stand on the issues, c-span is america's network. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. whether it happens here or here or here or anywhere that matters , america is watching on c-span, powered by cable. >> "washington journal" continues. host: reade pickert is u.s. economy reporter and editor with bloomberg news here to talk about the economy and the potential for a recession. what is the common definition of a procession?

what should we look for? guest: the rule of thumb and the one you see in articles is two straight quarters where gdp, which is the country's best gauge of economic activity, where it for two straight quarters. the u.s. is little different because we have an official committee that decides whether we are in a recession. they are group of academics and they define a recession as a significant decline in economic activity that is spread across the economy and lasts more than a few months. they work at something like gdp. they want to see it in a broad-based way. they want to look at other parts of the economy. labor market indicators like the unemployment rate. things like inflation-adjusted consumer spending. host: what you think americans

think about where we are in terms of recession? guest: there is a lot of polling that shows many and in some polls most americans feel we are already in a recession. when you discuss whether we are in a recession or not on a technical basis or whether wall street economists think we are in a recession, for a lot of people. people are getting poorer because their dollar is not buying as much. host: it is interesting to look at that question. the economist did a couple of questions. the general poll said 57% said we are in a recession. 19% said no. 24% were not sure. those who voted for president biden, 36% say we are in recession. those who voted for president trump, yes we are in a

recession. president biden, no we are not. 7% for president trump. we have been in a recession recently, the covid recession in 2020 or 2021. how is that different from what we are potentially basing now? guest: the pandemic recession was very different because we saw this enormous shock and it was the sharpest and the shortest recession we ever saw. while we did see does go straight quarters of decline on a gdp basis, on a monthly basis you saw that contraction in march and april and the way the recovery is seen as starting in may 2020. that is not the typical definition where it lasts for several months, but during that time you can see the economy shut down, unemployment spiked, it felt like a recession. host: a lot of what change that

was government spending, correct? guest: correct. when economists talk about a potential recession, most economists i have talked to have discussed it as mild. instead of sharp and severe, the word is mild. the length differs depending on who you ask. host: people in terms of what they're feeling right now, they are seeing the gas prices go up, gas and groceries and other things. what are the indicators they may see in recession they are not seeing now. what other concerns are there in terms of the jobless rate and things like that? guest: the jobs market is the one bright spot in an otherwise targeting economic picture. right now you still see this robust demand for labor. employees are still hiring so you see things like the number of vacant positions are still near record highs, and you see the unemployment rate is at its

lowest in 50 years. you have started to see a couple announcements of job cuts at tech companies and industries related to interest rate sensitive sectors. for the mortgage rate rises there been cuts in the home lending space. right now jobless claims and applications for unemployment benefits remain low. host: tell us what we think will happen in terms of the federal reserve and interest rates, their next step trying to halt inflation. guest: there federal reserve -- the federal reserve has pivoted in the last couple of months they have taken extremely aggressive steps to start tamping down inflation. in may they raised rates by the most since 1994, then by even more in june. there is another big raise forecast for this month as well.

investors think they will keep hiking rates, that plays into this idea of how long the recession may be. the federal reserve is very committed to tamping down in nation. in order to crush inflation, that may mean the federal reserve, instead of pausing interest rate hikes or even cutting interest rates when the economy starts to deteriorate, they may have to keep increasing interest rates for fear of not crushing inflation enough. some economists feel if you do not crush inflation enough that you could have a nastier downturn around the bend. host: reade pickert covers the u.s. economy for bloomberg. we welcome your calls and comments about the economy. the lines are (202) 748-8000 for democrats, (202) 748-8001 for republicans, and independents and others (202) 748-8002.

send us a tweet @cspanwj or a text at (202) 748-8003. you mentioned interest rate sensitive sectors. if the federal reserve continues to raise its rates, what are the potential implications for those two industries that are not just the high-tech ones and others you mentioned? guest: the clearest example is within housing. even before the federal reserve did the most recent interest rate hike, because everyone knew they were planning to increase interest rates they saw mortgage rates spiked to levels not seen since the early to mid to thousands. you've seen the housing market already start to slump as buyers are faced with this combination of high prices, the price gains are starting to slow and decline

in some cities, but paired with a high mortgage rates has made buying a home unaffordable for a lot of people. the other concern more generally as the cost of borrowing increases, the cost of capital for companies and their ability to invest in their companies gets more expensive, then there is a concern about declining demand. as demand declines, that is when you start to see businesses not just stop hiring, but actually start a layoff. host: one of our guests recent pieces at bloomberg, the headline, "what you need to know about recessions, including whether we are in one." do you think we are in one now? guest: i personally do not based on my calls with economist. most economists do not feel we are in one, but most economists feel there is a greater chance

than not we will be in one by the end of next year. host: what is the next big number american should look for in terms of the significant indicator we would be or are not in a recession? guest: a big portion of this is what the jobs market does. tomorrow we get the june jobs report. we are anticipating to see the pace of hiring slow down. i would caution people to look at that number and say it is possible it could be the smallest gain in about a year. i would caution people to say that does not mean demand is falling off a cliff. businesses are still struggling to fill all of these open positions. i will start to be very concerned when you start to see the layoffs or if you saw a sharp turn down the number of job openings. host: let's get to calls.

we go from bethesda, maryland and hear from catherine on the democrats line. caller: good morning and thank you for your time. the thought i had regarding this talk of recession, i agree with you we are not in a recession. i am a business owner and what i really feel is as a country the conversation needs to shift to the businesses and holding them accountable. all of inflation and everything, we literally are watching them price gouge on purpose to keep everybody in a chaotic and struggling mode. the businesses, especially the gas industry, they get much -- they get so much subsidy there is no reason not for them to step up. the same way with the airlines, the same way with the banks. china will always bail them out but as soon as the situation happens there ok continuing

their course of action and we are never supposed to question them or hold them account to give back? that is what is driving inflation. labor shortages, we just lost a whole bunch of people and companies are accusing to invest in the people that make them the money. that is the conversation we do have. the economy is looking good. we are not talking about that. we always look at the bad instead of celebrating what we've been through and how we are getting to the other side. thank you so much. host: what kind of business do you run? caller: i have a restaurant, i am a real estate broker, and i have a real estate developer and company. host: lots going on. your thought. guest: there's a lot going on and a lot of topics to touch on. in terms of thinking about small

businesses, inflation has come from a lot of different spots. we have seen a big part of inflation come from supply chain disruption, the energy crisis in europe, you've seen food inflation that has been impacted by the war in ukraine paired with weather events and all different kinds of things that are happening globally. definitely a lot of input into inflation. i totally agree in your assessment on how far we have,. look at the job market. we are near or if not slightly above where pre-pandemic employment levels are. there have been this huge recovery since the pandemic. i will say from the perspective of folks in their income, you've seen companies raise wages to attract folks to these positions

and retain folks in these positions and that has been great. it has been beneficial for low income workers. if you look at the aggregate wages are not keeping up with inflation. you have months after months where folks come even when they're getting a solid pay increase, it is still not keeping up with their bill and what they're paying at the gas station in the grocery store in the double-digit increases we have seen in rent. host: let's hear from leslie calling from new york. republican line. caller: thank you for taking my call. my question is how do you expect people that owe tremendous amounts of student loans to start repaying these loans once the payment clause ends with the high cost of inflation, most people cannot even take care of basic necessities at this time. guest: is a huge concern.

for a lot of people that is hundreds of dollars a month they have not been paying when there has been this paws on student loan payments. for a lot of people it is scary and folks do not know what they will do. they do not know whether that means putting more on their credit cards, curbing back on their discretionary spending, it will likely involve a lot of pain for a lot of folks unless there is some kind of stepping from the government or some significant abatement in inflation. host: that pause has been extended. when does it end? guest: i do not know off the top of my head. host: let's hear from michigan, iris on the independent line. you are on the air. caller: good morning. i am just wondering, what a bowl of soup in a restaurant goes up

triple and you go out for a steak dinner is $125, i think the economy is hurting. when they include the tip in your bill and expect you to leave another tip on the table. i think the economy is hurting those people. people should may become down-to-earth and look at how the average person has to live and how they have to make a dollar without getting an increase in their pay. we live in a crazy cycle. i think this lady ought to go outside her normal environment and see how the other people live. the 80% who do not have expense accounts and generous bosses. that is all i wanted to say. host: your thoughts. guest: we saw a real spending

decline for the first time in may of this year. inflation is definitely starting to weigh on consumers and their ability to spend on necessities as well as discretionary purchases. to your point about how this feels, economists use this metric called the misery index where it is essentially the inflation rate plus the unemployment rate. when you add those two things together, the current environment, even though unemployment is low, most people still have their jobs. the fact that inflation is so high makes this misery index around the same levels we saw in early summer 2020 as well as in the wake of the great financial crisis when we saw unemployment spike. there are a lot of people in a lot of pain. a question from michael -- host: a question from michael on twitter says -- there was a

remark from a talking head panel this morning saying americans are awash in cash. guest: in the aggregate there is still a lot of excess savings in the economy. if you break down who has those excess savings, a lot of households in the bottom 50% have already worked through those savings and you've seen consumer credit really start to spike as folks put more and more on their credit card. in the aggregate, yes, there is still a lot of excess cash, but that is certainly not the picture a lot of americans are facing. host: next up is kermit on the republican line. good morning. caller: my question concerns budgets. at the state level and at the local government level, we are required to produce a balanced budget.

i wonder what your thoughts are about a balanced budget at the federal level. host: and onto that, how will the higher interest rates affect our future budgets? guest: in terms of balanced budgets, there deafly people on both sides of how they view those. in terms of thinking about what we have had in terms of the enormous physical bang stimulus over the pandemic, folks can debate about the third package that biden and democrats passed. the initial bill that passed, the cares act that passed in 2020 was the biggest fiscal stimulus package we had ever seen and it prevented a lot of people from falling into deep poverty and it was bipartisan. when we think about it is nice to have flexibility in the budget, folks to determine

whether you need to see balance at the end, i'm no expert. in terms of thinking about interest rates as the cost of borrowing increases and the government had a large debt at the moment, which gets more and more expensive. host: we go to vicki in austin, texas. democrats line. caller: i am not very sophisticated and somewhat anachronistic person. i have most of my money in savings. i am retired. i have lots of home repairs and things i would like to do but the prices keep building. i think it is to my advantage to wait until the recession so i can pull off and afford things better.

am i wrong by thinking like this? are people like me who do not have stocks and their only money in their savings account -- will there session -- guest: thank you for that question. in terms of a fixed income you will feel inflation more than somebody who might be able to be getting wage increases at the same time. in terms of any change in the stock market, we've seen every significant decline in the stock market in recent months as the recession fears have grown in the federal reserve has become more aggressive with interest rate hikes. if you do not have money in that you will feel the impact of that. i think a lot of people are because they are watching their 401(k)s and wondering what will happen for them. host: there is a piece in the usa today money section. the headline, the price level has permanently changed, if

prices drops pain can remain. they write consumers will not feel immediate relief even as the inflation rate shows because many of us know prices are here to stay said michael ashton, managing principal. he says the price level has fervently changed. until wages ditch up to inflation it will permanently hurt. guest: that is an accurate statement. inflation is the rate of change. unless you saw a negative inflation print, which nobody is predicting, prices are going to be that same level, if not a little bit higher. we have been living in a world for decades where inflation has not been that high but has not been that noticeable. the level shift up, a lot of business owners would be a little hard pressed to drop the actual price of that item. host: i saw the price of a

barrel of oil had gotten below 100. typically when that happens there is a downstream effect that prices of the pump will fall as well. guest: right. we have seen the price of gasoline fall some from its mid-june peak. at the same time it is still high. all of these things take time, even when using the price of oil dramatically fall, often times it takes a long time for prices to go down. i think elevator on the way up an escalator on the way down. host: new mexico and jesse on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. i am thinking about all of this stuff and i am so upset with our government for giving so much money the pharmacy companies and other government agencies that created this inflation. second, i think people need to teach their kids to shop at

thrift stores and tighten their belts. budget is a good thing. third, i wonder what you would tell kids about going into college with the recent statistic that professional jobs are decreasing and student loan debt. i am also about to get $15,000 and i'm wondering what would you do with that money? would you put it in savings, ira, hold it, buy a house, buy a car, because of all of all the things going on. host: we do not have our guest on for financial advice but you can say what you want to the caller question. guest:. graduations on the $15,000. that is awesome. i cannot speak to what you should do with that. in terms of what young people should do, there's been a growing conversation about the

value of college and what people should be doing. it'll be interesting to see how it develops. i am originally from nashville, tennessee. something tennessee has done is invest in offering free community college and technical college for all of the adults in the state. it will be interesting to see if you see that in other states and basically how folks to make the college proposition more valuable and more accessible for more people. host: our guest has her bachelor's degree in international relations and economics from the university of virginia. we go to bob in michigan on the independent line. caller: it was said that in 2008 that the federal reserve pretty much used up all of its tools in terms of how to bring down -- out of rig bring the economy back in terms of manipulating

interest rates. i feel as though with the debt, the national debt increasing as the federal government has to borrow for more and more programs, which we have, that the impact of those programs will be very slim, and when you added to the debt. long-term debt is that in much lower fixed rate than what is going to happen in terms of the federal reserve fighting inflation by raising interest rates, will that raise interest rates to the point where they have no tools left? it was said after 2008 they have run out of tools because of the money supply being so far -- so much debt in terms of creating more money to fight it. are they out of tools is what i'm saying. guest: the federal reserve,

while there has been a lot of talk about what kind of tools they have and the limits of those tools, we did see the federal reserve get quite creative during the pandemic recession and they opened more of these facilities specifically targeted towards main street and did all types of things to keep the markets functioning. it is highly possible in another downturn that the federal reserve will come up with something else in order to fight that current downturn. in terms of thinking about the current situation, until the federal reserve gives inflation under control and there are a lot of things in inflation right now that are outside of our control, whether that is food or energy, until that gets under control, the federal reserve appears very committed to keep raising interest rates. host: we go to brad calling from international falls, minnesota,

next on the republican line. caller: good morning. there is a real concern we have to be looking at is what is keeping our stock market afloat? the real problem coming in is that it is a bear market and americans are not buying into it. what is keeping it afloat is foreign money. you have to understand where the foreign money is coming from. it is coming from the people reaping the rewards. it is the middle east, the chinese, people still making big money. what is happening is we are selling out our country. that is what presidents and their policies do. the stock market did not change, and it went up until october 2021 when trump's policies ended. that is all his gain and now you

have bidens policies and his performance and whatnot. that is what is spiking it down. yep to thank all of the biden voters for selling us out. have a great day. host: your thoughts? guest: a lot to unpack. i will say the stock market has tumbled recently, over last couple of months any given day it is up and down, but a lot of that has been driven by the recession fears and inflation and the commitment of the federal reserve to curb inflation and send the u.s. economy into recession. host: let's hear from laura in spokane, washington on the republican line. caller: my question is our government gets at least 3.6

trillion dollars in one year in tax alone and they have been getting more than that and they are borrowing trillions of dollars. i see these politicians becoming 100 millionaires there blaming mom-and-pop because we charge something they think they should not do, but they say nothing about stopping the taxes, taking care of the businesses. they do nothing about that and instead send people out to attack our justices, demean our country, and that is what i see. a bloated government that is making money hand over fist and it is disgusting. host: laura in spokane, how has the potential recession complicated the political picture for both parties? guest: it absolutely has.

prior to the rising fear of recession, the main drumbeat was inflation, and it still is inflation, but the combination of inflation and recession is not great for democrats. i wrote a story but some of my colleagues about how recessions late in a president's term has often correlated with the president not being elected for a second term. some of the experts we talked to also get the idea that if recession is early in a term a president can bring the economy back and show that jobs are coming back in the economy is on the upswing, that president then has a better chance of getting reelected. in terms of thinking about the phrase, "it is the economy, stupid," in many ways that still applies, but in the current

environment there a lot of other issues people are voting on. host: reade pickert covers the economy for bloomberg. you can give us a call at (202) 748-8000 on the democrats line, (202) 748-8001 is the republican line, and (202) 748-8002 for independents and others. a comment on twitter. "where i lived the last several months all large stores have been full of people, whole foods, stop & shop, target, home depot packed with people. that does not look like recession to me or is it?" guest: i have seen similar things and i'm trying to book hotels or have been on the road trying to try different places. in terms of thinking about what people are spending on, you have seen this shift from goods to services. i am curious to see if it on month or two you are still seeing a bunch of people in home depot or whether home depot or a

place like that, a store where you are buying goods, if you see people moving that spending when they're faced with a choice of where they are spending that money. if you see them sift that money to a restaurant or a summer vacation or paying for their kids summer camps. right now the consumer is still spending. there was a slow down in may. economists think consumers have a good bit left in them. host: i've not seen figures for july 4 but the figures for memorial day was that trips by car were down by the holiday weekend. guest: i have not seen those statistics but i can imagine that given how high gas prices are. people we have seen have decided to take trips closer to home or to do staycation's. in terms of your service spending, if it is restaurants, hotels, airlines, those would go up in the summer. guest: but you think about

government data it is seasonally adjusted so they are used to spending going up in may and june and july. when you do the details of the base spending report, even when adjusting for inflation spending on services did increase. host: let me go back to the organization inside the national bureau of economic research in this committee, the business cycle dating committee. they are the ones that look at the data and figure out we are now in a recession. will they make some sort of pronouncement about that? guest: they make an announcement but it is quite delayed. there is this moment where you start to see economists come out where they say we believe we are in a recession and that type of rhetoric. we've not seen that on the economist side. we have started to see that among some business owners and consumers and unfortunately there is a lag. inherently economic data comes out a month or a couple of

months after the period it is talking about and they have to evaluate all of that. host: our tweet a moment to mentioned a lot of big stories. have organizations like whole foods and stop & shop addressed the issue of recession? some of them begun to cut prices in specific areas? guest: i have not seen a lot of cutting prices but it has been a topic on earnings calls in terms of company started to see pullback in demand or saying they are in a really good position to whether the downturn if it is mild and talking about continuing to invest in their companies. host: we go to pristina in illinois, good morning. you are on the air. caller: good morning. hello? host: go ahead with your comment. caller: i have a question.

host: listen to the phone and move the volume of your television job and go to your question. caller: my question is about the government giving the oil companies all of this money like corporate welfare than they still put the prices up even though the price of a barrel of oil goes down. what does that all mean? guest: oil is a global market. there is not always a direct correlation in terms of the timing and the scale of how much oil prices bay move and what you may see at the pump. when you see oil prices go up you see gas prices go up and as you see oil prices go down at a slower pace, you see the gas

prices go down. let's -- host: matthew in hannibal, new york on the democrats line. welcome. caller: listen. i've been around long enough that i have upturns and downturns in our economy. eventually everything seems to right itself in the long run. there will be adjustments made. things will go back to what we considered to be relatively normal. i know that. i think president biden has done a very good job in the fact that he has had a lot of stuff thrown at him. when you have china that is locked down because of covid, that really affects the supply chain. i understand that prices are affected because of that.

i do not recall joe biden ever telling companies to move to china or bangladesh or india, where supply chain could be affected. i would also like to thank joe biden for getting out of afghanistan. it might not have been pretty. a lot of people wanted out of there and a lot of people thought it was a waste of money. now we're not there anymore. it was not pretty, but he got it done. the last guy used to make a joke , or joke was made about the last guys infrastructure week. thank you, president biden, we did get infrastructure. i think i will hide on to joe biden. thanks. host: reade pickert, any comment? guest: in terms of thinking about where the economy is now, i would say there are a lot of things about inflation that

there is not a time joe biden do about in terms of your point, when we think about things joe biden can do to bring prices down, something that has been brought up on the international monetary fund suggested tariffs on chinese goods, repealing those could help with inflation. economists say even something like that would only have a modest impact on headline inflation. host: on our conversation about summer vacation, a humorous tweet saying "a staycation is a cute name for i am broke and cannot afford to pay attention, let alone a trip to disney world." glory is in ohio on the independent line. go ahead. caller: my question is do you think the current state of the economy is going to one day help

the housing system mortgage come down because we are now pretty much [indiscernible] guest: i certainly hope so. i think something you saw in this pandemic world was when people were staying home you saw this move to the suburbs as well as this desire to have more space and to own a home, and when that happened, paired with historically low mortgage rates, you saw this immense demand for housing. then it turned into a housing market that frankly was crazier than anything i've ever seen in terms of all of the people outbidding themselves, all caps offers, all types of things for these homes. what you have seen is at least with the rise in mortgage rates that has started to cool demand some and you have seen prices nationwide start of land out a little bit in terms of the pace

of growth is slowing down. in some cities you've started see the prices of homes decrease. from a buyer perspective, the good news is that prices may go back down for folks, or at least stop rising. the bad news is kind of a wash when you add in high mortgage rates. until mortgage rates go down, plus you have the lower prices, that is what is the affordability come back. host: i want to read part of an opinion piece and get your thoughts about a piece in the opinion page of the new york times. "the federal reserve is being too aggressive on inflation" is the headline. he likes that "while americans hate inflation there is also worry about the opposite, deflation, declined in prices and incomes that is a symptom of economic weakness.

still a distant threat. deflation makes debt more onerous because you owe the same amount of money but have less income to pay off." what is the risk of deflation. guest: peter is great and has worked for bloomberg. he has a wonderful columnist. the risks of deflation are still very low. we did have a period prior to the period we are living in now that the federal reserve undershot their inflation target of 2% more than they were keeping it near or above it. even when they were under she did not target it was not deflation, it was not negative, it was still in positive territory. the economists i'm talking to are still trying to get inflation down to the 2% or 3% range which most do not see until next year. host: in terms of hints of taming the inflation and forestalling a recession, you

mentioned the jobs numbers, the monthly numbers for june will be out tomorrow. what range -- should those monthly jobs numbers be higher or lower in order to keep inflation in check? guest: guest: they will moderate because -- we lost so many jobs and those jobs have been replacing -- the 500,000 monthly gains that we have seen for the last two years are not sustainable so, it is looking like we will get something around 270,000 when you -- and when you think about 2018 levels, you are getting gains