and other videos related to that day. announcer: there are a lot of places to get political information. but only at c-span do you get it straight from the source. no matter where you are from or where you stand on the issues, c-span is america's network. unfiltered. unbiased. word for word. it happens here, or here, or anywhere that matters, america is watching on c-span. powered by cable. andrew desiderio is with this. he covers foreign policy issues. he is with us this morning to talk about codels the whole purpose and reason and a little bit of history behind delegation

trips. first of all defined what a codels is. guest: it is an abbreviation former congressional delegation. they knew they could use it to their advantage, the senate is going to have to vote on nato's exception for finland and sweden and that is why they went to nato to deliver that message on behalf of the administration. this is not a controversial issue in the united states. there are so many issues that divide us when we are at home. this is one of those that we are all united on. it serves a specific purpose, and it reinforces biden's

message. host: although these events do get covered, you were with the trip the entire duration? guest: i was with them in madrid. the first two stops were in finland and sweden. i linked up with them in madrid where the nato summit was held. it is rare that they bring reporters along on these trips or give this type of access. the reasons are twofold, for security reasons. in foreign countries, the security is not great. the second reason, for resources. they travel on military planes. they want to have these more intimate settings with themselves and staff. they have never thought to bring reporters along but my goal has been to try to get on one of these trips and i have swung and

missed a lot of times. i was really happy i was able to go last week because there is so much to get done outside of the capital, outside of the noise that we covered day in and day out and it really informs the work. host: it was timely in terms of the news and what was going on in europe with the announcement about turkey's acceptance about finland and sweden. guest: that happened on the first day of the summit. they had a perfect messaging opportunity right when they landed on the ground. i had already been there for a day and was planning to ask them about all of this and the meanings they were planed to have. the timing just worked out really well for them. it is not often that happens. often, they have to do the legwork on behalf of the administration. the work had essentially been done for them on this specific

point when they had landed. host: andrew's thesis, it is on politico.com. for more than half a century they have found diplomatic opportunities during overseas trips that voters rarely hear about. guest: i think it is because codels get a bad rap. they think it is a taxpayer vacation. in some instances, it can be. they go to fancy dinners and meet with important people around the world. on this trip, it is 95% work. they are pulling 16, 18 hour days. they met with five to six liters a day. they meet with heads of state. these are grueling trips and

they do help inform the work that they do on capital hill on national security issues but they foster bipartisan relationships that they can use to help get things done and other issues. host: the lines are host: for (202) 748-8000 for democrats, (202) 748-8001 for republicans and (202) 748-8002 independents. you write about chris murphy's work on the gun control work. began in the balkans. they had no reason to work on gun violence. they are from different regions

in less than two years ago chris murphy was fundraising for tillis'opponent. their trip to the balkans changed all of that. the trip took tillis and murphy away from the capital and built a relationship that proved pivotal to the gun deal. guest: senator tillis said there was no reason for him and chris murphy to link up. they had had pleasant conversations in hallways over the years but they had never worked together on something over the years. especially not something as challenging as gun violence. this is meant a lot to him over the decades. what senator tillis credited this bipartisan agreement with an far as getting it done with

is the fact that they travel together, got to know each other, trust each other and once we needed to come together on something. let's try to link up and get something done. host: you had the performance on the floor of the senate. in this case, they are largely removed from the view of the public and reporters. guest: senator murphy was actively fundraising on behalf of senator tillis'opponent. he wants to make sure democrats get a majority. it made sense that he fund raised on behalf of senator tillis'opponent.

but all of that went away when they travel together this year. they found a common purpose and built a relationship and trust that served as a relationship that got this gun legislation passed. host: one of the interesting parts of this article is the revelation that senator john mccain had on these congressional delegation trips. guest: senator mccain served as the navy's liaison to capitol hill, particularly the senate back when joe biden was first elected to the senate. he called him the young senator from delaware at the time. john mccain was photographed carrying his bags. these codels was how this relationship was started. they linked up on so many issues

, these codels have served as the foundation on getting these deals done. host: from your experience, what is the foreign view of these congressional trips? guest: foreign leaders meet with these members of congress and view them as americans and that is how these members go into these meetings. you are all on the same team. it is not a partisan message, it is a message that can help the administration. when joni ernst met with the japanese prime minister, because

iowa and japan have an expansive beef trade. there are many issues that senators can meet with these leaders on. host: let's first go to st. louis, missouri. caller: good morning c-span. you mentioned meeting with numerous foreign leaders. you mentioned j pan. apan. are there any other foreign leaders? guest: they met with the foreign leader of germany, estonia, sweden. sweden was a huge focus of the summit. given that they are trying to become a member of nato. they alsothey also had a one hog with president biden that the republicans emphasized they

wished they had more time one-on-one with the president back here in washington because they founded it to be very beneficial there was nothing but praise for president biden from those republican members. you can tell they genuinely appreciated the opportunity to meet with him, even though there are so many things they will argue about in washington. there were so many things that brought them together at the nato summit in that one hour meeting was an encapsulation of that. host: next up is grant here in the nation's capital. caller: i want to dispute the idea that all americans are vastly in favor of nato expansion. only about half support that. looking at the issue of congressional trips abroad, many americans are opposed to that. the single top destination for any congressional jumping on an

airplane if you look at the data are privately funded trips to israel. if you also look at a poll for that, about 66% of americans think they should return to their districts, which is their real responsibility, as opposed to taking lavish $10,000 junkets to israel. several congressional's are over there right now. doing what? who knows. americans are not pro-nato expansion and would rather see the members of congress doing their jobs in the united states. guest: i think that criticism is exactly why these members of congress have not brought reporters on these trips before and have tried to keep them out of the public view as much as they can. often times you will see a press release after the trip sang a bipartisan group of house members went to so-and-so

country, here is what we did in who we met with. having it covered in real time is different from that and i think members are still sensitive to this idea, this criticism they are just using taxpayer money to go on vacation. to be fair, i found last week that is not the case. host: who funds these trips? guest: it is funded by the taxpayer. it is organized by the legislative affairs team at the state department. the woman who runs the legislative affairs department at the state department is a former foreign policy advisor to senator jeanne shaheen, the lead democrat on this codel last week. i quoted her as well as senator jeanne shaheen about how these codels are very beneficial. she has organized so many of these on capitol hill and serving in the administration.

they candle all of logistics and setting up the meetings with the foreign leaders. security protocols, all of that. host: you write about the origins of these trips. guest: dean atchinson was the very first assistant secretary of state for what is now called legislative affairs. he went on to become secretary of state. his goal in the truman administration was to use members of congress to the administration's benefit to reinforce the message, but also try to help their diplomatic goals more broadly. last week's trip to the nato summit with the purpose of promoting finland and sweden in nato is a perfect example of that. it is something that specifically requires congressional buy-in. the senate has to vote on it.

they are on track to vote before the august recess. it is something they would direct say in and the ministration has to make nice with congress on a bunch of different topics, but especially where congress has veto powers. the gentleman mentioned before that americans are wary of nato expansion. this will get 98 or 99 votes in the senate. i think that is an overwhelming statement of support for nato expansion. host: the line for democrats is (202) 748-8000, for it republicans, (202) 748-8001, for independents, (202) 748-8002, or send us a text at (202) 748-8032 . you write their members who do not want to take these congressional delegation chips -- trips. you mentioned ted cruz. what is his reason for not

wanting to be on these trips? guest: it is members of congress who have professed ideological purity they want to show they are pushing back on the other party, they are fighters, they are not engaged in the traditional dealmaking in washington that has failed the american people over a number of decades. i think the main criticism from people on the left and the right who do not go on these codels is they are not invited, and two they are not willing to engage or entertain the give-and-take compromise often required for going on these trips and for getting things done outside of those trips. senators tillis and murphy came together on a once in a generation gun violence bill. if tillis and murphy were entrenched in their respective camps on this issue and were not interested in dealing with the other side and making a deal and

were very distrustful of the other side, maybe legislation would not have gotten done on that front. they both leave it was in the interest of the country in the interest of themselves on a political level to engage with each other and get this done. host: it appears senator tillis forgave senator murphy for fundraising on his opponent. guest: exactly. this stuff happens on capitol hill. it is not often terribly vicious. you realize republicans want to be in control and the democrats want to be in control. the way to do that is to try to get as many people from your own party elected as possible even if it goes against someone you might like. host: let's hear from carolyn in kentucky. you are on the air. caller: i am so glad andrew is on. i've been wanting this question answered for so long. back in the trump

administration, may 3 years ago, seven republicans went to russia. why did they go? it was so hush hush. it was on the fourth of july when they should be celebrating here. they were in russia and i've often thought it was to get whatever vladimir putin had on trump. it seems so mysterious that seven republicans went to russia. i would love to hear what you say. thank you. guest: i wrote about this a little bit in my article on codels. it was seven republican senators in july of 2018. four years ago. their goal was to ease tensions with russia. obviously the u.s. intelligence community had found russia was interfering in our elections. the u.s. had opposed a wave of unprecedented sanctions on the russian government and these

republican senators apparently wanted to go. in their own words, ease tensions with russia and try to get past these issues. to be fair, there were democrats also try to go to russia. senator shaheen tried to go with a bipartisan group any years ago , but she was denied a visa because of her strong criticisms of russia over the years and her support for sanctions against russia. in solidarity the republican said senator shaheen was not granted a visa, so i will not go either. that was a very important moment. it shows that often times, even when there is so much partisanship in washington, these members can stick up for each other when they feel like they are on an american team. when one of the members of their team is being slighted, they want to make a statement and push back. to be fair, these republican

senators who went, it was not necessarily shrouded in secrecy. they talked about it at the time, they did media in russia. i remember writing about it at the time. i do not think it was necessarily secretive and i do not think their goals were secretive. host: with that have been arranged by the state department? guest: any time a member of congress travels abroad, the state department handles all of that. it was the goal of the trump administration to try to use republican senators to their advantage to ease tensions with russia and get them to portray these specific messages, they had an easy way to do that and that is what they try to do with this trip. i do not think it was necessarily shrouded in secrecy. everybody knew they were going and i and other reporters were covering it at the time. host: you bring up an interesting point regarding jeanne shaheen, you say she was denied a visa into russia.

the republican senators got that. there are countries where you do have to get a visa, to get into that country. how often is that an issue with some of these trips? guest: not very often, especially because senators are often treated as diplomats. we have an embassy in moscow right now despite the very contentious relationship between washington and moscow. there are diplomats who have to be in moscow right now. there are americans who have to be in moscow. it was surprising this happened. senator shaheen -- long before russia interfered in the 2016 election, she was ahead on recognizing russia as a threat to eastern europe and recognizing that russia's goal was to expand their territory, which is what we are seeing right now. senator shaheen was ahead of

that. host: one of our previous callers use the phrase lavish junket to describe some of these trips. was your trip with the senators a lavish junket? guest: we were in madrid, which was a beautiful city. you can call it lavish if you want. it was a working trip. these were very long days. they spent long days meeting with these foreign leaders. i attended a reception later that night with the residents of the u.s. ambassador in madrid. it can seem like it is lavish but i can tell you firsthand a lot does get done and relationships get built. senator tillis and senator dick durbin had been negotiating on immigration for a long time.

they let that fall by the wayside. on this trip last week senator durbin told me he and tillis restarted their immigration tops and valid when they get back to washington they will drill down on these details. that is one of many examples of members using these trips for productive reasons outside of a foreign policy goal, a foreign policy topic. host: to spouses or significant others accompany members on these trips? guest: sometimes. the state department gets to decide whether their senators and house members are decide to bring a guest. it depends on the nature of the trip, where they are going to. whether it is a fact-finding mission or oversight mission. last week the top republican on the senate foreign relations committee travel to ukraine and other parts of europe and what

he described as an oversight mission to examine how u.s. aid to ukraine is being spent and how the weapons are being transferred to ukraine and through other parts of europe. that was a trip that was more labor-intensive in terms of it being an oversight mission, a fact-finding mission. they were trying to reinforce a message on behalf of the administration. host: those missions are approved by the state department. in a war zone there must be military involvement as well. guest: correct. i remember interviewing mitch mcconnell after he got back from ukraine. that was a secretive trip. very few people knew about it. even people on the senators own staff did not know about it until they were on the ground. they did not send out the press release until they had left ukrainian territory because you are sending these very powerful

people into a war zone meeting with the president of ukraine. this is the kind of thing where security is paramount and often times the u.s. embassy will handle the security when senators are in a specific country. obviously they did not want to talk about it that much and how they got into ukraine. host: the political nature of these trips, into question from catherine on twitter on who provided the funding for nancy pelosi to see the pope and take communion when she cannot take it in the united states? guest: she was in rome last week. it seems like she turned it into a vacation because she went to florence afterwards. the way these trips work is if it is for an official purpose the government picks up the tab.

often times members will tack on a personal vacation either before or after an official visit somewhere. this is something that it seems like she did that. i will say she is someone who requires around-the-clock security, she is second in line to the presidency. wherever she goes, wherever mitch mcconnell goes, wherever chuck schumer goes, the taxpayers are paying for their security. that is built into the cost of these trips. host: interesting story behind the scenes in washington. codels.

east. this is 50 minutes.