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washington journal continues. host: joining us this morning is danielle gilbert from the center forwashington journal continues. host: joining us this morning is danielle gilbert from the center for -- i want to begin with your piece on the usa today's editorial section leading -- needing to know why the wnba star is still not home. wnba brittney griner has been imprisoned in russia and the public silence has been deafening, what did you mean? guest: when brittney grinerpubln deafening, what did you mean? guest: when brittney griner was first arrested in february there was total silence around her public silence has been deafening, what did you mean? guest: when brittney griner was first arrested in february there was total silence around her arrest and for a few weeks we heard nothing until the sixth of march when russian media broke that they had arrested her. there was an intentional desire to keep the an intentional desie

to keep the story quiet. her family, her teammates, they did not talk much about her case with the they did not talk much about her case with the hopes that they could resolve it quickly and that she could come home from russian prison. as the weeks and. as the weeks and months passed by it became clear that this was not a misunderstanding and it would take great efforts misundt would take great efforts to bring her home. once the people around greiner decided to go around an olympic championship and all-star. brittney griner is one of the all-time greats in basketball.

i talk about a couple of reasons why the american public might not >> nonconforming. research shows some of these traits could make a far less likely to receive the same attention another victim might. there a known as the missing white women syndrome suggests white female hostages are far more likely to receive attention. pick up on that point but also the point you made previously, if this was a male nba star with

her accomplishments in russia in prison, what do you think would happen? >> a lot of people are focusing on this gender element. i think the fact that she is a female basketball star rather than a male basketball star has one really important element, which is the fact that she had to play in russia in the first place. women who play in the wnba make far less money playing basketball than their male counterparts in the nba. they make far less in the united states than they can make during the off-season abroad. the whole reason brittney griner was in russia is for the last seven seasons, she has played for a russian team. it pays or something like five times the salary she makes in the united states and she is not alone. a lot of the best players in the way cap and playing abroad in the off-season or years. the pay in equity for women

athletes is a huge part of the reason she was even in russia in the first place. i think that is a really important part of the story that we should not lose focus of. the fact that female athletes in the united states are not paid what they are worth. at the same time, research shows that female and male hostages are not receiving different kinds of attention simply based on their gender. we might think, people have said what if it were lebron james, wouldn't they be home by now? i know that is easy to say that, of course, he is such a star, that a lot of these male basketball players are much more prominent and have maybe a larger fan base than the stars of the wnba. i think the backers of her race, her sexuality and circumstances of capture are going to be much more important in how the public responds to someone arrested in

the manner that she was. >> the united states has officially said she was wrongfully detained, what does that mean? >> wrongfully detained might sound like a phrase someone like me might just say. it is a legal designation from the state department. it means the secretary of state has looked at the cases of americans who are arrested abroad and has singled out her case and dozens of others as a case in which the united states is not trust the american is going to receive a fair and legitimate trial abroad. there is a long list of criteria that can designate an american is wrongfully detained. it might mean that the u.s. government believes the american is being held hostage, that they are being used for leverage. or it simply might mean that the united states government has reason to suspect that there is

something unfair about the criminal justice system abroad, that it is going to target certain groups like the black, foreign lgbtq american, again aligned to brittney griner's case. once the state department has designated someone is wrongfully detained, it changes the way their arrest is handled by the west government. it means their cases move to an office at the state department called the special presidential envoy for hostage affairs, s.p.e.h.a. is the acronym. the job of the envoy is to serve as the chief diplomat or americans who are taken hostage or wrongfully detained abroad. he is essentially our government's chief hostage negotiator. she does. i don't know where carson's is at the moment. i don't have intimate knowledge

of his travel or anything like that. i know that not only is he working around the clock on this case, but that he and his office have been in close contact with greiner's family and her team. and have indicated this is something they are working on. >> then why did she plead guilty? >> that is a great question. the most important thing to know about the guilty plea is that it does not change the fact that the u.s. government considers brittney griner to be wrongfully detained. at the end of the day, the u.s. government does not trust that this is a fair and legitimate trial, and will be working behind the scenes to get her home. part of that is something like 99% of court cases in russia go to conviction. it is not innocent until proven guilty, like we might expect in the united states. and so, we expect that she would be found guilty regardless of this play.

i can imagine three plausible reasons why she might have pled guilty. the first, and we have seen this in her statements, is that she wanted to own up to an inadvertent mistake that she brought .7 grams of hash oil in her luggage by accident. i'm not an expert on the particular drug charges, but .7 grams of hash oil is something that would maybe be a misdemeanor in the united states. it would certainly not be the kind of crime she is being tried for and certainly would not carry the kind of sentence they are discussing, 10 years in a penal colony. the first reason is that she might just have wanted to be honest and own up to something she didn't mean to do. there are two other reasons i can imagine she might have pled guilty yesterday. one, there is a hope that might lead to better treatment or a

shorter sentence, better treatment in russian prison which i can imagine is a place none of us would ever want to be for even the time she has already been there, four months. the last is that it might be required as part of a negotiated deal. it might be a necessary step for her to have the political negotiations to bring her home. >> what do you make of her letter becoming public to president biden? and now yesterday after her guilty plea there is quotes in the papers that a state department official was able to give her a letter back from president biden and she was able to read it? danielle: i cannot imagine the pain that she and her family are experiencing right now. she is fearing for her life. she is not convinced she will be released anytime soon. she doesn't speak russian.

it is really the stuff of nightmares. for anyone who is in this situation for the wrongful detainee or the hostage and their family, there is nothing more important than focusing on bringing your loved one home. when a family or community decides to launch a public advocacy campaign of any sort, when they decide to make this public, the audience is not the russian government or some other hostagetaking state. the audience is the white house, this is about the court of public opinion in the united states and trying to convince the president and the government that they should be working around the clock to make every possible consideration to make them require concessions to bring her home. and so, releasing that letter is all about reaching out to the president, emphasizing that she, and olympian, the daughter of a vietnam war vet, is scared for

her life and is hoping for the white house to focus on it. i'm not surprised that the president wanted to respond to that. i think that president biden is very sympathetic to the case and wanted to reach out to her to let her know that he is working on it. at the same time, we can be a little bit wary of what it means for these kinds of letters to be made public. the fact that she was able to send that letter to the white house means that the russian government allowed it. so we can be a little bit cynical to think maybe the russian government wanted that to be publicized because it increases pressure on the white house to make the kinds of concessions that the russians want. >> let's hear from our viewers, mike in fairbanks alaska go ahead. >> good morning greta and the rest of america. you have the most beautiful smile, i wish she would smile more, i really love it.

anyways, jeffrey lords, he should have known better. i honestly believe griner is a tranny. >> we are going to move on. david in pensacola, florida. >> i teach informally a critical thinking class, and she is teaching a master class in just letting the american public. she has characterized ms. griner as a hostage when regardless of the amount of cannabis oil involved has broken the sovereign loss of a nation. ignorance of the law is no excuse. regardless of the situation on the russian border, ms. gr iner is not a hostage, she is a criminal. >> david, hang on the line for a

second. danielle, what do you think would happen to a russian who was caught with the same amount? what would happen then? danielle: the russian criminal justice system looks nothing like what we have come to expect in the u.s. there is a presumption of guilt, not of innocence. we have seen what vladimir putin has done to his rivals poisoning people all around the world. this is not the kind of country where we can trust that people are treated fairly. when i referred to brittney griner as a hostage, i am talking about the concept of hostage diplomacy. this is when states like russia, iran or venezuela the color and the guise of law to take borders hostage for leverage. they arrest foreigners using

charges often for things like espionage, when the entire point is to pressure a foreign government to make concessions. while legally brittney griner is a detainee, functionally she is a hostage. the fact that the russian government is floating an idea of a prisoner swap, that is not something that happens in a normal criminal justice scenario. it means the government is holding her because they want something in return. the russian government is engaged in a completely unjust and horrifying war in ukraine. this is not a government who we should trust frankly about anything. and i think that applies to brittney griner as well. >> talk about how russia makes public the court proceedings. it is not just with brittney griner, we have seen it with past americans who are held there. they go into court in handcuffs, and then they put her in a cage. what is happening here with perception? danielle: unlike courts in

america, this is not open to the kind of press we had hoped might be able to access the courtroom. the court is not open to her friends and family, and an entire international press corps. the people allowed in court are there to publicize the show trial that brittney griner is experiencing. they have her in handcuffs, sitting in a cage, just like they would with any -- they are trying in court. it is dehumanizing and tragic to watch. first of all, she is 6'9", but an american citizen and a star athlete in these completely dehumanizing condition. >> from the newspaper reporting, it sounds like bill richardson the former diplomat in the

clinton administration is working on her case. he has had success in the past. can you talk about his group and what sort of tactics did they have that have brought americans home in the past? danielle: in addition to the special presidential envoy for hostage affairs, which is the office inside the u.s. government that works on these cases, the richardson center has often been is on -- focused on bringing home american detainees abroad. it is run as he say by former ambassador bill richardson who has an enormous track record of success in these cases. he and his staff travel around the world and manage these quite successful back channel negotiation. they do not represent united states government. there is a couple of good reasons why we would want someone like bill richardson to be involved in brittney griner's case, and in the case of other

americans held hostage abroad, which is mainly but they don't represent the u.s. government. they can meet with actors that the u.s. government might consider unsavory. they can explore a wide range of creative options without risking indicating that they are committing to something, or that they are speaking for the u.s. government. it is a way to access the kinds of options that might not always be accessible to the u.s. government. at the end of the day, some combination of what the richardson center is able to do, and what the special envoy is able to do, is usually how we bring home americans who are kidnapped or wrongfully detained. >> does all of this cost money, and if so, can you characterize how much? >> that's a great question. in some cases of hostage

diplomacy, there are financial concessions that are made. for example, when iran takes americans and foreigners hostage, they are not just interested in a one for one prisoner swap. they might be interested in much larger diplomatic concessions, the payment of past debts, but kind of thing that might look like a ransom in a kidnapping case. sometimes there might be money involved for the kinds of concessions that are made. there is also a budget for the special presidential envoy for hostage affairs office paying those state department employees who are working on these kinds of cases. >> philip in tennessee, good morning to you. >> i think this gilbert has got her own agenda. when she first started speaking she was talking about gender bias and brittney playing seven

years in russia. first off, she should have understood what is going on in russia. i'm going to give brittney the benefit of the doubt. somebody might have trumped up charges, but she shoulda known to stay away from illicit contraband. >> danielle gilbert. danielle: what i am hearing in a lot of these comments and questions is precisely this issue up blame and deserving is that affects how the american public response to these cases. we are not there and we don't know exactly what happened and we can't trust the russian criminal justice system or their press to answer these things in a way that would give us confidence. when we hear comments about the fact that she made a mistake

going over there, or she should not have been carrying illicit substances in her luggage. this is pride cicely this issue up deservingness that shapes how we respond to cases of americans held hostage abroad.in my research my co-author and i show that whether or not gay hostage is responsible for putting themselves in danger, whether you think they deserve any blame for needing help in the first place. it will dramatically affect whether you support giving the person help. the same dynamic applies to things like welfare policies in the united states. if you tend to think that more people are simply unlucky, you will be more likely to support policies to help the poor. if you think that poor people are lazy, you are not going to support those policies. it is the same with hostage policy. we are talking about government

time and resources, that we might need to give up money or manpower, or make concessions to help someone in need. whether or not you think that person deserves the blame for help will influence firmly how you feel about brittney. >> danielle gilbert is a fellow at the john sloan center for international understanding. our guest of the next seven minutes or so on brittney griner's case and u.s. hostage policy and diplomacy. bill in ohio. >> yes, hi. i'm concerned for brittney, and i am hopeful that mr. richardson will be able to work something out. my thought process is, why is the wnba in russia? we have all these american companies that have pulled out of their. to bring lebron up in this whole conversation is just wrong.

that young man has never done anything wrong and has never been associated with any drugs or anything like that. it is a wrong comparison. but i want brittney to get out of there, but why is the wnba in russia? danielle: i would not be surprised if the wnba players do not go back to russia again. the russian state demonstrated that it is not a safe waste -- place for americans to travel. even before this incident, they were treated like stars there and made lots of money. they were relished as star athletes. i can't imagine any of them will be going back anytime soon. there is other leagues in other countries around the world, and you are probably going to see a shift of wnba players to other places around the world. >> james in chicago. james in chicago? >> i read that in russia, if you

have between one and five grams of cannabis, you only maybe get 10 days end up in. -- and a fine. brittney only had one gram of cannabis, so what is the problem? danielle: the prosecution in her case has stated that what she had was around .7 grams, so not even one gram as you mentioned. it is less than this. they have not charge her with personal possession of .7 grams, they are tripping that up to say that she was smuggling illicit substances internationally. essentially, they are saying that this trace amount of hash that she admitted to having in her luggage, is the equivalent of being an international drug smuggler. that exaggeration can help us see that this is not a legitimate criminal trial.

this is intentionally trumping up these charges and is yet another reason that some in the united states government consider this a wrongful detention. and that they are not waiting for her to be exonerated in court in russia but they are working behind the scenes to bring her home. >> describe behind the scenes. these backroom channels that people talk about, what are they and how do they work? danielle: when we think about hostage diplomacy, these are state governments that the united states has some tension with. it is not our allies and friends around the world who are arresting american citizens to use them as political pawns. one fear we might have is that the u.s. government would not have the kind of diplomatic relations to actually even work on these negotiations, right? these are our adversaries we are talking about, that russia,

venezuela, iran. in may, there was another american, trevor reed, who was released from prison in russia. he was released from russia in 2019 and there was a prisoner swap with a russian imprisoned in the united states to bring him home. in some ways, this brought really good views for brittney griner and paul whelan another, american who has been imprisoned there since 2018. the fact that there was a prisoner exchange means that the united states and russia, despite the ongoing war, despite the sanctions, despite the tensions between our two governments, that these channels are open. our diplomats and their diplomats are able to work out these deals. it opens the door for us to be a little optimistic that this might be something to bring brittney greiner home. >> danielle, what is your

estimation of how long this process could take? a long time to resolve. so, i hope brittney griner and paul whelan can come home soon now. but i am bracing for the long haul. >> danielle gilbert rotate piece in usa today that you can read. you can follow her twitter as well. danielle, thank you very much for the conversation this morning. danielle: thank you for having me. announcer: c-span's washington journal. every day we take your calls live on the air on the news of the day, and we discussed policy issues that impact you. wednesday morning, a member of the atlantic council will discuss biden's trip to the middle east.