>> c-span is your unfiltered view of government, we are funded by these television companies and more, including comcast. >> comcast is partnering with 1000 community centers to create a wi-fi enabled listing so students from low income families can get all that they need to be ready. comcast support c-span as a public servant a monk with these other television providers giving you a front -- among with these other television providers give you a front row seat. here is what is coming up on "washington journal".

documentary writer and producer talks about her new pbs film about evictions during the coronavirus pandemic. you can join the conversation with your text, calls and tweets. host: schedule d.c. on the same day. former president trump's first return to the capital. yesterday's speech at the heritage foundation was postponed, but it is one of a series of events that mike pence has been using testate his vision and clarify his purpose

in the republican party in 2020 beyond. good morning. welcome to washington journal. the lines to use for democrats, republicans, independent and others, and you can always text us. make sure you include your name and where you are texting from. we would love to hear from you on twitter or instagram. that speech last night was postponed because of serious weather issues. it is going to be rescheduled. we will show you some of the recent comments by the vice president and tell you about a speech he is giving today and an

event at the america first policy conference that we will cover later today. we will talk about the actions of the vice president during january 6 that have been a prominent part of the evidence presented by the committee. first, let's go to the reporting of politico. it is trump versus pentz -- mike pence. mike pence, who is scheduled to speak speaks at 9:00 a.m. at the national conservative conference. donald trump will speak at 3:00 p.m. and we will stream that on our c-span now mobile app. an already much discussed drama. there is new drama over the

choice of venue. peter navarro is asking trump not to go forward with the event because he believes that the america first policy institute is insufficiently devoted to trumpism or what navarro believes it should be. you can read that at politico.com. that piece that was referenced is published this morning on the american greatness website. you can read that there. a tweet from politico. mike pence is trying to put forward a new narrative about the republican party. here is that piece. mike pence is trying to send a message is the headline. you may not have predicted that mike pence, a man who praised

donald trump 13 times in the span of a minute would defy his boss. it is a brave new world in politics. he is campaigning, and essence, against trump. yesterday -- last friday, the man-made appearances in the grand canyon state. trump headlined a rally in prescott valley. here is the former vice president at one of the political events in arizona. some of what he had to say. >> there are those who want to make this election about the past.

arizona knows that. when you get out and vote for this republican team, you can say yes to a future of freedom for arizona. you can say yes to our most cherished values, life and liberty. safe borders, safe streets and great schools. make no mistake about it. when you get out and vote, you can send a deafening message that will be heard all across america that the republican party is the party of the future. host: is the role of mike pence in today's replicant party -- the line for democrats and for

independence. a couple of comments on social media and some texts. one says, i like mike pence, but what will he do about donald trump? trump is finished. he stabbed us in the back when he did not question the election fraud. that is james sending that message. this is from cnn politics and they are writing about the speech that mike pence was sent to give yesterday. there were some flight delays last night. this is from politico. they write that former president mike pence was looking to lead his party beyond former president donald trump when he

touts his freedom agenda. he will deliver remarks about a proposed agenda. the trip, though originally slated to take place monday evening, before trump made his first visit to that capital since leaving office in january 2021 was postponed after mike pence's flight was diverted, due to storms. it will be rescheduled for another day. the freedom agenda provides a clear roadmap for leaders looking to connect with the american people on their top priority. according to prepared remarks, it is built upon the belief that americans want to create more opportunity, restore american leadership on the world stage and are proud of traditional culture and they want to preserve it. the prepared remarks touch on a

lasting majority. some people may choose to focus on the past. i believe that conservatives must focus on the future. your thoughts on the former vice president and his role in the party. let's hear from greg on the democrats line. go ahead. caller: hello and thank you to c-span. it is interesting. mike pence is only slightly better than trump. thank god that he did his job when trump wanted him to not do his job.

my opinion is that both of these people just need to go away. they lost the election fair and square. they divided our country more than any other politician that we have ever had. there has always been divisions between republicans and democrats, but not since it -- not like it has been since trump. i found it very interesting with the republican only collars, calling in with the majority of them who did not want to see trump run again. i must agree with them. these two people got lucky that they were in the white house in the first place and now they lost, they need to go away, please. host: richmond, indiana.

caller: good morning. the big problem i have with mr. pence is that in light of all the solid evidence that is abounding, concerning the elections, they broke their own laws -- the list goes on and on. the whole election was a big fraud. i'm wondering if that makes mr. pence a fraud as well. host: do you think he could have done anything on january 6 with the accounting of the electoral votes? he has said over and over that he did his constitutional duty. caller: what has he done since then? i have not heard him talk about

fraud since then. where has he been through all of this, if he is such a hard-core, right-wing republican. host: next up, mary kay on the republican line. go ahead. caller: what i am really upset about is that c-span is giving a voice to the republican party under -- it is making me angry. c-span is amplifying hate, betrayers and why are you giving them a voice,. ? -- a voice period? there are more voices that are

more important than what the republicans are doing. there are so many things that kamala harris is doing, and he would rather cover those in the washington journal. i am really upset at c-span for highlighting and having republicans call in to talk about what mike pence should have done. joe biden won the election, period. stop amplifying what the republicans are saying. thank you. host: we covered both the president and the white house briefing like we do almost every day. we cover presidents of all stripes all year round on the network. mike pence spoke at the federal society and laid out his vision

on the accounting of the votes on january 6 and his reflections on that. >> there are those who believe that as the presiding officer that i possess unilateral authority to reject electoral college votes. i heard this week that president trump said i had the right to overturn the election. president trump is wrong. i had no right to overturn the election. the presidency belongs to the american people and the american people alone. there is no idea more un-american than the notion that one person could choose the american president. kamala harris will have no right to overturn the election when we beat them in 2024.

host: we are asking about the role of mike pence and the republican party. just an update on our live coverage plans. coming up on c-span, a c-span hearing on the safety of law enforcement officers, including the impact of gas and gun laws here on c-span. the senate health committee, we will do -- we will look at that. that is streaming on the free c-span now at. donald trump will speak this afternoon as we mentioned his first trip back to washington since the inauguration of joe biden. that is coming up at 2:15 eastern.

back to your calls. good morning. republican line. caller: mike pence's future is like so many others. they are all never trumpeters. i am in pennsylvania and i have seen it. the election was stolen in pennsylvania. i was here. i sighed live on the tv. if there was fraud, mike pence should have sent it back to the states to be reviewed. i'm telling you this now. the first caller talking about how donald trump divided this country? are you kidding? joe biden is the worst president to sit in that oval office. i have seen nothing but devastation to the small

business, letting these corporate giants -- how come joe biden did not put out the profits that the companies made in their second quarter? how come we have not seen the profits? tyson -- the food manufacturer. all of these other big corporations. these people are ripping the american people off. joe biden is just sitting there, watching it happen and you have these dummies calling in, blaming donald trump, saying he is the one who destroyed this country. are you kidding me? caller: thank you for having me on. i think that mike pence's role is the role that vladimir putin decided for this country, that

1% was more beneficial to society then a merit-based democracy, coming off of president obama. but why people did not like him because he was black. we had communists on the left. bernie sanders has been a communist since he was 19 years old. his campaign manager was partners with paul manafort in ukraine. paul manafort was convicted for taking bribery money. so was michael flynn. he was at the dinner table. we had marxists in the left. we did not make them our nominees. you guys nominated trump. the woman was right about the

media being controlled by the richest 1% who own the media. host: do you think the republicans will nominate mike pence in 2024 active caller: no. and they are not going to vote for trump. they are still stumping for trump, so they are not going -- they will split the vote. joe biden becomes president and if he does not make it, -- host: we are going to go to texas. republican line. >> i cannot believe -- caller: i cannot believe what i am hearing from these democrats. mike pence will never make it. republicans will not vote for him. he is a nice man but a little bit weak in my view. we need a good, honorable man, not like joe biden.

it is a socialist, communist party and they need to stop what they are doing. they are hurting their own citizens. host: back to your point about mike pence. he is a nice man but you will not vote for him. why, politically would you not support him? caller: i just think that he is kind of a rhino. i think you have to be able to talk to the people and the democrats are indecent and their platform is disturbing. education, introducing sexual everything to our babies is insane. the whole country is crazy right now. host: you are assuming that the former president donald trump

will not run either in 2024? caller: i like his platform. democrats will always try to hurt him and stop him because they are socialist communists. they do not want the american dream anymore. a lot of democrats are not voting democrat. they will be voting republican. host: he was donald trump earlier this year, talking about his former vice president, mike pence. mr. trump: i never called him a wimp. he had a chance to be great. he had a chance to be his story, but just like bill barr and the rest of these weak people, i say it sadly because i like them, but mike did not have the courage to act. bill barr was afraid of certain things. do you know what they worry?

please do not impeach me. i said, what is wrong with being impeached? i got impeached twice. i do not want to be impeached, sir. the election was perfect, sir, it was so good. the election was perfect, and the democrats are back there sitting like, no way we are going to impeach this guy. it is terrible, but he was afraid of whatever he was afraid of, but as you heard, year and a half ago, mike pence had no choice but to be a human conveyor belt. even if the votes were fraudulent, they said he had to send the votes, could not do anything. what happens when you have more votes than you have voters? does it matter? host: the former president trump

at the freedom conference. if the former president decides to run in 2024, yahoo! finance you point out some of the financial implications of that. they write that as head of the save america political action committee he controls 103 million, making him the kingmaker. once he declares a possible run, federal law puts the money beyond his reach. he will make an -- he will make another white house bid. when he announces, he is limited to taking just 5000 of his leadership pack money which began with a starting balance of zero. at the same time, trump has

shown that he can raise money quickly. three weeks after losing the election, he joined the committee to raise 207.5 million. your thoughts on the role by mike pence in the republican party. for others -- on twitter, kevin says this. retire and enjoy your pension with mother. if it is a -- let's go to john in johnstown, pennsylvania. good morning. caller: i'm afraid of the u.s. becoming a theocracy. these ultrareligious hitler's.

the biden versus trump mentality, after four years of trump, how could anybody criticize his mental acuity? the guy who had delusions of grandeur or whatever. the guy from pennsylvania called and there was only one case of fraud involving a republican, his wife and mother-in-law. he voted twice. that was the only case of fraud that they came across in pennsylvania. that is why i called today. host: thank you. sophia is in new york city, manhattan. caller: thank you for taking my call. i definitely enjoyed and kissed the ground when -- mike pence

saved our democracy, but for him to run as a president -- i see adam kissinger, liz cheney, paul ryan. on the left, they need to get back to save the republican party. i changed to independent last month. i could not take it anymore. i voted for trump and 2016. i cried the whole four years. when he left, i kissed the ground again. 7:34 a.m., january 7, when --

when they banned him, i said, thank you. only 25% now. they will not change their mind. they are going to speak. it was their holiday, their victory. they needed a big leader. they wanted to do this. they use each other so the only thing i want to say is we are going to be fine. i am going to get back to being a republican again. after all of this. we will go next -- host: we will go next to the republican line. caller: thank you for taking my

call. mike pence might have had some role in the gop, but i do not believe he can go against trump in a primary. i do not think he would win. during his name in would take votes from governor desantis. when you look at the election results from -- he got 70 million votes. 70 million people out there is a big number. as far as what is going on in today's world with joe biden, i do not think this man knows what day of the week it is, what is going on with the gas prices -- president trump had all of that under control. the respect we are getting from other nations is amazing. germany is not given what they should be giving in the ukraine.

if president trump was there, this war would have never started and they would have given their fair share. everything has been put on us and president biden is destroying us. thank you for taking my calls. host: next in orange park, florida. go ahead. caller: on the issue of mike pence, he pretty much to character assassination. he had a light. now -- mike pence does not have a role.

he is just trying to rebuild his character. these people are willfully ignorant. he is emotional. the committee has -- deliberately ignorant people deliberately ignore facts. this guy talking about respect from other countries? these other countries laughed at us. they laughed at us. thank you, sir. host: headline from politico. mike pence appears before the grand jury. mark schwartz served as chief of

staff and appeared before a federal grand jury, investigating matters connected to the 2021 attack on the capital. his appearance was under subpoena, according to the person. short is one of the most significant witnesses to face questions related to january 6. he was at mike pence's side, helping donald trump's number to fend off pressures. the january 6 committee hearing, they showed never before seen video footage of mike pence and his security detail during the attack on the u.s. capitol. >> the national security staff was listening to these developments and tracking them in real time. on the screen, you can see excerpts from the chat log among

the president's national security council and staff. at 2:13, they learned that the rioters were kicking in the windows at the capital. three minutes later, the staff said that the vice president was being pooled, which meant agents evacuated him from the floor. the secret service agents at the capital did not sound good right now. earlier on january 6 with access to relevant information and a responsibility to report to officials. we asked this person, what was meant by the comment at the secret service agent did not sound good right now? in the following clip of that testimony, which has been modified to protect identity, the professional discusses what they heard from listening to the incoming radio traffic that day.

>> the capitol does not sound good right now. [indiscernible] >> they were starting to fear for their own lives. there was a lot of yelling. there were a lot of calls over the radio. there were calls to say goodbye to family members -- whatever the reason was on the ground. >> did you hear that over the radio? what was the response? >> it was just reassurance is.

i think there were discussions, but it was just chaos. just yelling. >> what prompted you? >> we were running out of options and we were getting nervous. i do not know. but they were screaming and saying about saying goodbye to family. host: front page story this morning in the washington times. the headline hearings pooled trump down but not out. they are eager to hear about vision for u.s.

although he remains the man to beat for the 2024 nomination, his favorability ratings have slipped since the hearings began in june. in april, the president was underwater in the real, clear politics average of polls. mr. trump's favorability rating was underwater by 10.9 percentage points. many are distancing themselves from mr. trump saying he did little or nothing during the riot. your thoughts on the role of mike pence in today's republican party. let's hear from the independent line. caller: i am a first time caller

and i was prompted to call based on the woman caller a few calls ago who criticized c-span forgiving democrats a forum to discuss. i also wanted to say that i do not think mike pence is a strong candidate. i was a trump supporter. if he had run, i would vote for him. but i would rather see new blood , to be honest with you. host: glad you called in. welcome. please mute your volume on your television. kathy in atlanta, lou -- mute your volume on your television or we will go to the next caller. ok. democrats sign.

go ahead. caller: america is america. the democrats got the house, the senate and the white house, and we have no baby formula for kids in this country. this is what you report? seriously, it is a dereliction of duty. host: that is not true about afghanistan. we talked a lot -- we talked about the baby formula issue as well. we talk about those issues regularly. south carolina, independent line, go ahead. caller: good morning.

i guess mike pence is a good guy for what he has done, but i do not have too much respect for him because he is a part of donald trump. trump cheated to be president with vladimir putin. people don't realize that he is a puppet of vladimir putin. even to this day. he took pictures with vladimir putin's men behind closed doors with no news agency at all because that is what they do. that is what vladimir putin and the kgb does. do you understand? they are doing that to take the

pictures to have him solidify as a puppet. host: akron, ohio phone call. caller: am i to talk now? host: yes, donna. just mute the volume on your television. are you there? caller: yes, i am here. i want to know, when are they going to let the colleges the colleges again? when are they going to stop killing these children? host: al gore declines to call mike pence a hero january 6, certifying the election.

he said that conceding the 2000 election to george w. bush was nothing extraordinary. here is the former vice president, al gore on meet the press. >> he has been called a hero by some for what he did. what say you? >> in the current environment, just doing with the law requires seems provoked to some. i'm glad he made the decision. he was a freshman congressman sitting in the chamber when i could -- counted the votes in early january of 2001 and i think that those who have tried to continue promoting doubt and suspicion about the efficacy of

our democracy are really performing in an anti-american way and they should be held to account. i want to congratulate every single member of that committee. they are performing a historic service to our nation. host: the headline on this profile piece, mike pence is trying to send a message. just a bit more from this piece that says it is not the first time that mike pence has deviated from the trump script, but probably the most noteworthy one. it represents a larger battle within the gop with establishment type like mike pence and trump's cabal of fanatic, writes the atlantic. he seems eager to show that the republican party can be a place for americans to accept trump

that are not certifiable. still, those efforts might be a little too late. even if they lose in primaries, the party has been remade in trump's image. a number of candidates are running for positions. no number is going to change that. you have to separate trump the person from the phenomena. he has wholesale changed the republican party. we are asking you the role of mike pence in the republican party today. for independent and others -- a

couple comments on twitter. this one says, the democrats hope that he runs because the republican party will finally realize that he is a human being and not a cartoon character that lies. he is disliked by normal conservatives and disliked by other voters who, due to his certification of the vote, it looks like he might have to return to the talk radio. one says that penn's was a rhino. does that mean that 45 is a rhino? we will go to shirley on the democrats line. good morning. caller: good morning.

c-span.org -- [indiscernible] you guys gave republicans a whole hour to call in yesterday. yesterday, only republicans could call for the whole hour. donald trump affected all of our lives. like the caller said earlier -- you are giving them too much airtime. they said all kinds of stuff about the election not being stolen. donald trump lied. i do not see what is so hard to understand about that. he should be in jail. but it is white people protecting other white people.

it is just white people protecting other white people. host: newington, connecticut. we had. -- go ahead. caller: hello. im 90 years old. i went to vote when i was 88 in the last election. i went to the polls and i was called three times to take a mail-in ballot. i said, no, i am going to the polls. i went there, handed them my license and they said, we do not need that. i said, you do not want my license? i have been voting since eisenhower. they said, we do not need that. i said, do you want to know where i live? i told them. i live in an apartment house.

i said -- they did not ask me my apartment house or anything else. they say, ok, we will check that off. go get your ballot. i got it and made it out. did that though count? i have been voting since i was 21 and i voted my first to vote for eisenhower. i have voted for barack obama and jack kennedy, and i thought my vote counted, but i do not think my vote counted this time because it was a rigged election, even in the 90% democrat state of connecticut. that is what i have to say. thank you. host: next is georgia, democrat line. caller: you are doing a great job. mike pence is a flunky because

from the get-go, donald trump had to pick him because he could take advantage of him. to be the vice president, you are supposed to be the guy or gal to step up when things go bad in the white house. donald trump actually tried to hurt his vice president. there is no way that they were running around trying to get him somewhere safe so he could come back in there and do his job for the electoral votes. now, we have the committee. they have already said and put things together that donald trump set this up to stay in office. all we need to do is get the doj

to start laying the law down and taking names and subpoenas, getting these guys locked up. if that had been barack obama trying to do that, there is no way in the world would not have him in jail. he would have been in jail along long time ago. it's terrible that we have two systems in the justice system, the white justice and black justice. should all be the same. we are all americans. this is ridiculous. thank you. host: a headline, no, mike pence is not going to be elected president. mike pence is not going to be elected president of the u.s. after serving a heartbeat from the presidency, it is natural to regard any vice president as a top contender for the job and it

is dangerous to make definitive electoral projections and uncertain political times, but there is not a viable path to the oval office for mike pence. you would not know it necessarily from media coverage. one of the biggest example as early as next -- this year and that gubernatorial primary. the former vice president in south carolina last week after the supreme court decision on abortion, this is what mike pence had to say. >> i am humbled to say that we offered legislation to defund the largest abortion provider in america. i must tell you, south carolina, i could not have and more

grateful to have the privilege to be vice president in the most pro-life administration in history. i saw it firsthand, every day. under our administration, we've reinstated the policy to ensure that american pack -- text here -- taxpayer dollars would not be used for abortion around the world. i had the great privilege of being the first vice president to address the march for life in washington dc it might have been the greatest honor i have ever had. as president of the senate, i was there to cast the tie-breaking vote that allowed states across the country to defund plan parenthood.

host: back calls. let's hear from julie in manchester, kentucky on the republican line. go ahead. you are on the air. caller: i do not know if mike pence is strong enough to be the next president, but i know that the president that we currently have -- [indiscernible] host: all right, independent my in santa clarita, california. what are your thoughts? caller: mike pence is a really nice guy, but four years of

standing beside donald trump -- donald trump is a pathological liar. donald trump is a criminal. donald trump tried to overthrow the u.s. government. he should be in jail for conspiracy to destroy micro see in america. i understand some of the republicans want to support him but i do not know how they can support mike pence either because mike pence stood by why -- while a criminal tried to destroy democracy in america. i hope and the wakes up and realizes the criminality of that man because he was a criminal when he was born, as a child, through school, now, and if they let him back in, he will completely destroy democracy in america. wake up. host: a 12 versus pence debate

would be interesting. we lost that one there comes that we will go back to calls in rochester and hear from david on the democrat's line. david, i'm sorry. you are on the air. caller: the last guy just got off the air and i appreciate everything. trump is a criminal. we all know that now. you have the same rednecks call every day, all day long. nobody intervenes. host: we are hearing from john. caller: thank you to c-span for

allowing the rednecks to call, african-americans and just plain americans to call. let's get back to the topic. mike pence. i do not think i pence would be a valuable candidate as president. of all the malfeasance is that have taken place, not only with trump. he kind of expounded on wings, but how can we consider a man a hero when he basically just did his job? he followed the constitution. we could have gotten mike pence to be that same heroic figure when donald trump was doing all the things he was doing, talking about handicapped folks, but he could do to women. he should have stood up on more

at that time. mike pence did a good thing and a good job. i pat him on the back for doing the right, but as it relates to him running the country, if he was allowed -- he allowed donald trump to do the things that he did, i do not see him being the president that we need. we need something new. we need to bring americans back together again because america is deeply divided. i listen to the republicans that call on this line and the democrats. that is what made me turn into an independent. there are some republicans that have good ideas and some democrats that have good ideas. i like to look at all of the facts. i know you love donald trump, republicans. i love barack obama, but i do not think he did everything that he could have done. i would like to say, let's pump

the brakes and backup. let's become americans again first. let's listen to everybody and take everything in and then let's decide what we are going to do. january 6 committee? they have all republicans on there. the republicans are telling what their side of the story is. they are explaining to america what they know as facts. host: in the new york times, the president speaking with reporters. he says -- donald trump lacked the courage to act. the brave men and women in blue should never forget that. you cannot be pro-insurrection and pro-democracy. you cannot be pro-insurrection and pro-american.

he also asked about his condition -- he was also asked about his condition recovering from covid. reporter: how are you feeling with covid? >> i am feeling great. i had two full nights of sleep all the way through. my dog had to wake me up this morning. my wife is not here. but no, i'm doing good. my voice is still raspy. every morning or every afternoon -- every evening i get a full-blown test, from temperature to the oxygen in my blood, my pulse -- just across the board. so far, everything is good. i am feeling better today. i still have a little bit of a

sore throat and little bit of a cough, but it is changing significantly. but they tell me that is par for the course. i think i am on my way took full recovery. reporter: when do you think you will be back to work? president biden: i hope to be back to work this week. and four major events today. i did not start today until 9:30 and i will finish today probably -- what time is it now? i will finish about 6:30. but i am not keeping the same hours. we are making decisions on a range of different topics as well. host: a few more of your calls

online pence in today's republican party. good morning. caller: good morning, c-span and good morning america. all of these democrats call in -- while they are social democrats. do not cut me off biden is a criminal, and his whole family has sold us out to china. so, when we see him stand up there and speak, and tell lies come everybody says trump is a liar but biden is just as big of a liar. until everybody realizes that, then we are going to have nothing but trouble. the country is split in half between red and blue. those of us in the red states cannot stand president biden.

i'm hoping that when the big red wave comes through in november, that the first thing that they can do is impeach president biden and his family, especially having hearings on hunter biden and putting that criminal in jail. host: thank you. palm beach gardens, florida. caller: thank you for taking my call. in regards to your original question, the party at this time needs established, conventional republicans, similar to mike pence, but he is not the answer. his public health policies resulted in skyrocketing hiv rates. it is concerning to think we would have someone in office while we are in the midst of the pandemic. in regards to the other callers

we have americans who read at an eighth grade reading rate. it is obvious when the people who call in and are lacking and critical reading skills and that needs to be taken into account. the party needs to return to its roots. thank you for taking my call and thank you for your neutralism. host: there is more ahead here on washington journal, of next retired lieutenant general thomas spoehr will talk about the recruitment challenges of the u.s. military. a preview of the new frontline film debuting tonight "facing eviction." a conversation with bonnie bertram bonnie bertram the writer and producer bonnie bertram later in the program.

>> live sunday, august 7 on in-depth. talkshow host larry elder will be our host to talk about political correctness. he is the author of several books including 10 things you can't say in america, and a lot like me. joining the conversation with your phone calls, facebook comments, text and tweets. in-depth with larry elder august 7 at noon eastern. c-span brings you an unfiltered view of government. our newsletter word for word recasts the day for you from the halls of congress to daily press

briefings to remarks from the president. scan the qr code at the bottom to sign up for this email and stay up-to-date on everything happening in washington each day. subscribe using the qr code or visit c-span.org/connect to us as anytime. at least six presidents recorded conversations while in office, here many of those conversations during season two of the podcast presidential recordings. the nixon tapes, part private conversations, part deliberation and 100% unfiltered. >> the main thing is, it will pass in my heart goes out to those people who with the best of intentions are overzealous. as i am sure you know, if i could've only spent a little more time being a politician last year and less time being president i would've kicked

thereabouts out but i did not know what they were doing. c-span2 on the mobile lab forever you get your podcast. -- or wherever you get your podcast. host: we are joined by retired lieutenant general thomas spoehr here to talk to us about the recruitment challenges the u.s. military is having particularly the u.s. army. recruitment is down in all four branches. what is going on and tell us the scope of the problem for the military. guest: this is the worst year the military has had in recruiting since 1973 when the draft was done away with. they had some hiccups, they miss their goals some years. this year all services are having a hard time in the army will miss their goal by tens of

thousands of soldiers. the labor market, it is hard to hire people. there are many other contorting causes as well. host: the new york times cover this last week, with few able, and fewer willing it is difficult to find recruits. finding the pandemic, tight labor market and demographic shifts, the armed forces may fall short of enlistment quotas this year. how do they set there quotas each year? guest: they have models based on their size of service based on what they can reach. that was 485,000 active-duty soldiers. they set their models in how many soldiers they needed to recruit. ever since then, they have been struggling.

every year they have revised those goals downward because of their projections they would not meet them. host: how are the branches different with recruiting? guest: the army has to get several soldiers, the marines cannot take as many so they invest more and it. they put more emphasis into recruiting. their chief recruiter reports directly to the commandant of the rheem core. each service is slightly different. they don't have to make the numbers that the army does. the army has to make 70,000, air force is 30,000. host: are we facing the same problems in the noncommissioned ranks as in the commissioned ranks? guest: not as much. the pull of rotc programs continues to be strong.

they have more candidates than openings. we are ok in terms of commissioned officers. host: has the congress over the years, and particularly going back 20 years post 9/11, has the congress sufficiently supported pay increases, benefits, etc. for the military branches? guest: the congress has been generous with their paid benefits. they have tried to keep up with the public sector. they have revised the g.i. bill. you cannot only get your tuition paid for but housing, a stipend for books. the best education benefit in the united states. host: what was your motivation for enlisting or going into the academy to begin with? guest: i was in rotc. i did not have strong prospects at the end of my college time.

i loved my parents, but i did not want to go home. i thought let's give the army a try. i was a bit uncertain about the whole matter but it worked out wonderfully for me. host: did you think i was going to give this for years or so and then i will get out? guest: my wife and i had this discussion every four years or so. she asked me if i am having fun? and so i stayed in. we will set up a phone line for active military. democrats that number is (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001 independents (202) 748-8002. if you are active or retired military that line is (202) 748-8003. you were quoted in the piece in washington examiner, can america's all volunteer military survive?

you said this is a drought. the drought we are having out in the west, that is a tough word for where we are. guest: every trend i look at, demographics, qualification standards, unemployment. i don't see any hope around the corner. how do we recruit in a difficult environment? host: what is the reason behind it all? what is the reason for an all volunteer force? guest: i was in the army when people were drafted. i came in and those people did not want to be there. if it is composed of people that really did not want to be there. you can tell that the moment you come in the door. we had a force that was not there first choice.

in a draft, people typically serve two years. in a forest where it is always turning over two years, the turbulence is high. it is difficult to have a highly trained force. host: where is the army concentrating most of their recruitment? i say the army because that is where the biggest gap is. where are they concentrating their recruitment efforts? guest: they have gotten their most recruits out of the southeast in texas. they are doubling in los angeles, denver and chicago. places where they have not gotten much access. they are not leaving any rock unturned. host: the challenge in the labor market with pay going up at a number of places, how can the army and other branches respond to that? what can they offer? guest: they have thinks that

amazon and starbucks do not have. there is a chance for travel, a chance to serve your country. a chance to do something bigger than yourself. you will learn leadership, beaded team, give orders and respect others. you can't equate the experience in the military with any other job in america. host: your view is that we had a surgeon recruitment after 9/11. what is the role of patriotism? what role does patriotism play in people volunteering? guest: it's important and it gets half of the people in the door. the other half come in for a variety of reasons. they want to leave their town that they live in. they are looking for opportunities for themselves are a small family. that gets them in the door and

many of them stay for different reasons. they like it. they like the patriotism and serving their country. i don't worry about what gets them in the door. i did not know much about the army before i got there. host: there was a stretch where recruiters prohibited on campus. where does that stand now? guest: i think 9/11 -- harvard was a standout. it is still a problem. even in high school where recruiters attempt to come in and talk to people, high schools will put barriers in the place for recruiters access to young people. host: the new york times talked about recruiters approaching people in walmart, approaching people where they are. guest: i love the fact that they

are going out and trying to find people where they are. in high schools, it is fairly easy to say no to recruiters and that is the last you hear of it. i respect that idea because a lot of people don't know much about the military. host: we will get the calls in just a minute. the line for active retired military is (202) 748-8003. i wanted to play the response of a retired general. [video clip] >> to the question of where we are recruiting, we targeted 22 cities across the country's in urban areas where you have higher concentrations of african-americans or higher concentrations of hispanic americans to try to reach a

demographic communities that we have not reached in the past as successfully. that is what we set up internships for hispanic american and african-american officers to encourage them to come into the car back arms. we need to do more of that. we are facing recruiting headwinds because the economy is doing well. every private sector is competing for talent. we are competing against that too. we have to do more to find out how we can talk to a wider band of americans about the value proposition is for them in the army. host: what did you hear from the army secretary? guest: i heard a lot of innovation and that is what is needed. the model that got us to 2022 is not the model that will succeed.

we have to think about bringing people into the military. host: in the past, how important was it to enlist someone whose family had her tradition of service? guest: we don't rely on that but that is how it is happen. over 70% of people have a family member that has served. that has been key for us and that is important but we can't rely on that for the future. host: let's get to callers for retired lieutenant general thomas spoehr on recruiting more broadly. tony is on our retired line. tony, from texas. caller: i appreciate you letting me join in on this important call. without defense, this country is down the drain. i spent 37 years working with the department of the army. i am very proud. it gave me a livelihood.

i was the da civilian and i worked alongside the corps of engineers, nwr, fort garrison. fort benning, what i see happening, the voluntary services started in 1973. the housing of the military is the number one cost when it comes down to family. the problem of which the general has already stated is very obvious. there are three or four things i would like to share. going out on the world population for the future, the u.s. aging force is 300,000

retiring. i retired this past year. the military is going to see more and more of that as time goes on. the world population reports the forecast for the age group 16-24 will be in a negative state by 2024. the projection for the world population will go down to 2060. host: thank you for that. pointed out those demographic challenges. guest: thank you for your service to the army and congratulations on your retirement. most of the countries in the world, the young people

population is staggering or decreasing. our young people population is at least staying the same at about 31 million americans. the only reason it is not going down is because of immigration. that is legal immigration. the u.s. fertility rate is below the replacement rate. we have a demographic problem. in the past, we have been able to rely on the growing young population. these young people are being relied upon by an aging population to provide their benefits. host: let's go to north carolina, also retired military. caller: some of the issues that i see with the trouble with recruiting good people to go into the military as they a lot

of people being forced out due to the vaccine mandates. deborah birx came out and said the vaccines are a fraud. i see where the politics are in interference as well. years before president biden took over, we witnessed how corrupt ukraine was and now with the prospects of going to have to fight a war against russia on behalf of ukraine is not very enticing to new recruits. nobody wants to fight the russians over ukraine. it goes beyond housing and demographics, there are also

political issues that are adversely affecting the military currently. that is all i would like to say. host: you saw these trends well before the invasion of ukraine. guest: in 2018 they miss their recruiting goals and ever since then, they have missed their goals. the disparity is so big that they have to say they are going to miss their goals by tens of thousands of soldiers. there is no camouflaging this problem anymore. host: let's hear from carol from clarksville, tennessee. caller: i wanted to say that the african-americans, he never made in east seven.

he was always told when he was tried to get the credits, classes for moving up in ranks. after 17 years in the military of him trying to move up. next thing you know, they were asking him to leave. he was doing the work of an e7 when they sent him to let the way now. i don't think the promotional system is fair to african-americans. guest: thank you for your son surface to the army. i can't speak to the promotional circumstances he was in. the army, like every human endeavor is fallible. even though they tried their

best, occasionally the promotional system does not work as it should. again, thank you for your son service. host:pew research shows the demographic shifts showing a growing representation of minorities. 2004 versus 2007. as of 2017 they were 43%. much of that growth is with the hispanic community in the u.s.. we have often seen that service members who are children of immigrants often have gotten their citizenship as they have served. how much is that a motivation for someone to join a military force? guest: typical path right now, you have to have a green card to

enter the military. if you have a green card, you are on an expedited path to citizenship. that is always been a path for new immigrants to get a head start in their careers on becoming american citizens. host: let's hear from ed, retired military, jacksonville, florida. caller: retired army, served in vietnam, afghanistan and iraq. i take exception to the vietnam people not wanting to be there. the quality of soldier i met in vietnam was just as much of a quality of soldier as those in iraq and afghanistan. i currently have a grandson that is in the army at fort meade and it seems to be that the motivation comes from inside the

military motivating people to stay in. that is my question. guest: thank you for your rvic and all those conflicts. i did not mean to imply the vietnam generation was not a great generation. i was speaking in general terms about when you have people who don't want to be there it is harder to motivate them. i can't speak too clearly to your question. for me at least, it is about the small unit. how are the leaders at the installation at your unit? if they are good people want to stay at that installation and unit. host: retired lieutenant general thomas spoehr. braun from seattle is on the republican mine. caller: i am retired united

states army. 16 years as an active duty recruiter. recruiter for the state of washington and alaska. my father-in-law serve 32 years. i served as a personal photographer for a lieutenant general down in texas. the traditions of yesterday are gone. the customs and values are no longer enforced. you do away with all of our traditions and history and we have nothing left. you have to bring back being all that we can be by supporting the troops by instilling the spirit of corps. we have to get back

to the basics. crt that is killing us. i look forward to your response. guest: think again for your service. i spoke with the army chief of staff yesterday. he says they are bringing back the slogan "be all you can be." without tradition, without esprit de corps. recruiting duty is a hard duty. you are off by yourself and you are telling by your headquarters you have to produce five recruits a month. there is no one to turn to for help. there is no partner you have, you are on your own. host: are we less of a nation of joiners than we used to be?

not just the military, but organizations in general. particularly among the age group that the military is trying to recruit. guest: generation z loves to connect. whether they want to connect with the larger active ms. eight and is yet to be seen. host: the question of a draft keeps coming up. guest: i visited israel a couple of times. there is a common bond they have together. other countries still have a draft like norway. i don't think it would work in the united states. we have moved past that. it would not be politically acceptable and we would not like the military we would result

with if we developed a draft again. host: here is joe from north carolina. caller: we do need the draft to be reinstated. i was drafted. we need to teach her children pride in this country. we have failed. being drafted does not mean you have less of a soldier. you will have more of a soldier. you instill integrity. you go into the army for one thing and that is to eliminate the opposition. we have forgotten that. when i was drafted and put in the service, i was told what is the purpose of the bayonet? to kill.

you are there to save our country and people. that is all i have to say. host: general? guest: we probably disagree about the draft. i take nothing away from the generations of people who served their country in uniform. whether they volunteered or were drafted. that model probably does not work for us. only 1% of americans ever serve in the military. even if we instituted the draft it would be rare to be picks. i think there are other models we should try first before we resort to a draft. host: are there areas where robotics or artificial intelligence are lessening the need for personnel? guest: so with pilots and aircraft, you can fly a drone remotely. on the ground, it is much more difficult. driving a tank, you can

encounter an unexpected stream obstacle. you never come across unexpected things in the air, on the ground it is much more difficult. host: let's hear from james in texas. james on the retired military line. caller: good morning general. you have failed to indicate that the best training shop is the military. it doesn't matter what branch you join, if you joined and became a driver and four years later you could get out of the army and get a 200,000 job. same for engineering, electronics, plumbing, etc.. the other issue where i would agree with you, we do not need to draft. a draft to draws people that do not want to be in the military and they become a real problem.

number three, you have to get out of the metropolitan areas and get into the rural area or the sticks as we would say because that is where you will find the hard-working members of the united states that are eligible to join. they don't getting gangs, they don't get in trouble. they don't become criminals. they do not become obese and overweight. thank you very much for your time. guest: the military is a great opportunity whether you stay in the military long time or whether you serve one initial tour. when you come out of the military, you will be a better citizen. veterans vote at a higher rate than people who did not serve. they volunteer in their communities and the higher rate. they leave the military with skills that will put them in a new job. even if they don't have a directly of clickable skill they are learning leadership and how to work with people. host: what are the consequences

of the military failing to reach their recruitment goals? guest: they are shrinking and next they will have to cut their authorized size by 12,000 shoulders. a smaller army means a less safe america. we will have fewer combat unit than they think they will need and when the time comes they won't be ready to defend us. host: how is a candidate for the army differ as far as education, physical fitness today versus 20 years ago? guest: obesity is on the rise. 18-2419%. we are seeing a heavier population. a less fit population. the high school graduate has been going up slowly. many young people have mental

health issues that have required some treatment by a professional. a prescription drug, and that complicates matters when they try to enlist. not to say that it is impossible but it complicates people. caller: just getting out of high school, i was not sure but i wanted to do. i chose the coast guard. i figured out what i wanted to be and then i went to college. host: you are breaking up a little bit there.

you went to college, and what currently does the military offer somebody who signs up? what will they do in terms of a college education? guest: we can send you to college while you are in the service. we will pay most of your tuition. or you can get out and use the g.i. bill. we will pay for your school and housing. host: our most people taking advantage of that? guest: yes, there is a third way and that is you can give a child of yours you're g.i. bill benefits and they can go to college for free as well. there are three essential ways to do that. host: next we have joan and mayfield, new york. caller: good morning, thank you. i come from a military family, three generations of lifers.

we need to teach patriotism but they are not getting that in schools. they are taught to hate themselves since a judge by color. this woke stuff is not preparing our men and women to fight. what do we do about that? host: we talked about patriotism earlier do you want to respond to that? guest: the american military has entered the political sphere. i will speak candidly, there are people on the right that believe the american military as woke. and people on the left to believe that the military as a hotbed of right-wing extremism. it is work firmly to remain

neutral. in terms of teaching civic education, you are right. that has been squeezed out. the pressure to teach what is on standardized test has squeezed out many of the other topics that used to be taught in american schools including government and civic education. host: next up, joe on the retired military mind. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. i served in the army for 20 years. what lured me is that the army had a program called strikes for skills. that might be a tool that you could use today. a lot of people are unemployed or underemployed and they have skills that you could use in the military. you could bring them in at a higher rank.

when i took my oath, i was immediately promoted to pfc, and after basic, eight weeks of specialized training on the job, i was promoted to e5. the celebrated promotions under this program gives people a chance to use the skills they have already developed in their civilian life and you don't have to train them and something else. host: thank you for your comment joan, general? guest: i think the army in the military in general is looking at all types of options. i was talking to the chief of staff of the army yesterday. maybe they will do some kind of preparatory school, people who don't immediately meet the standards, bringing them into the army for 90 days and see if they can work with them on that.

host: i want to get your thoughts to current challenges for recruiting in ukraine. ukraine says they have hazy standards around recruitment. they are trying to recruit, register men. that campaign includes fanning out in the streets to find potential soldiers, issuing summons and ordering them to recruiting offices. they are getting accusations of being secretive and draft the unwilling by spurning the willing. guest: i don't have knowledge of that program. i know ukraine wants to get as many able-bodied citizens as possible. for obvious reasons, their country has been invaded. whether their methods are on the up and up, i do not know. host: the worst case scenario is

that if we were in a major war. going back to world war ii, they were drafting 12, 15,000 men a day. how prepared is the military to ramp up that kind of mass recruitment or draft effort? guest: those mechanisms are a little bit rusty right now. people need to register for selective service at 18. i don't know if that system is well refined are fully complied with. we do have a fairly robust national guard. we have reserve components. in the short term, the active-duty can call on these reserves and national guards to bolster their ranks. host: to the guard in the reserve, are they having the same challenges on the recruitment side? guest: not as much. it is not as bad as the active-duty fours.

in many cases, the states are better recruiters than active duty forces. they say you can stay in your town and that is very persuasive to people who think about joining. host: cj on the democrats line. caller: it is an honor to speak to general. i would like to get your opinion for the last six year, including four years of his presidency. our 45th president could not go out of his way more to trash the military to trash the losers like john mccain and the generals that he knew so much better then. all the dumb wars that we get into. i have to wonder if there is a lag in any kind of recruitment efforts because we have about half of the country who would follow this guy down the road to turnover our very democracy here

at home. it is getting complex, what this country even stands for because we have a bomb thrower like our 45th president mixing up the whole idea of what it means to be a proper american. thank you. guest: i think the only message we need at the white house that it is honorable to serve in the armed forces. i have not heard a lot of that coming from the white house and the last few administrations quite honestly. i think that is something we need to turn around. that has gone out of the lexicon of our presidents, service for your country. we need to bring that back. host: you cover recruitment in your role at heritage foundation what is the message of your foundation overall? guest: we write policy to make

sure we remain well protected. host: for further details of what you have researched, recruiting outlook. it is available at heritage.org. anthony from michigan, retired military. caller: good morning america. good morning c-span. general, thank you for your service. i spent about two years on active duty. my last assignment i worked supporting recruiters. the challenge is today, young people are more knowledgeable than we were.

they see the shortcomings and challenges we have had with recent conflicts and so the military is not a top choice. the focus would have to be on recruiting incentives that give them different perspectives, different options. some of the comments that talk about wokeness reinforces the division that goes on in the country today. i am an african-american. i joined after being in rotc in high school. i saw options there that i did not see that are not often available in the inner-city in detroit. i think we need to recognize that we are americans. our young people need encouragement and support day end, day out. we need to understand that they are americans and all americans

of all nationalities, creeds and genders are americans. guest: anthony, thank you for your service. i think you are exactly right. part of the problem is the information gap. they get their information from tv, movies. you will see commercials of veterans coming home that have been previously wounded and having to rely on private charities. america needs to take great care of its veterans and many cases they do. the messaging needs to be correct and i don't think in many cases it is. host: in your view veteran care has improved? guest: absolutely, reducing white lines at the v.a.. it has really gotten better. host: from michigan, this is

jerry. caller: i would like to comment on what would help the service out quite a bit. if they would get away from the college aspect and sending people to college. we need skilled trade is what we need. it would be really good if they would have them complete their military obligation at the same time complete a journeyman's card before they got out of the service. that way they have a job looking them in the face when they got out and it would help out quite a bit. host: there must be some of that going on already? guest: congress has put in place during the last six months where you can apprentice for a company, and i.t. or a trade company. you get six months alongside a

private company to ease your transition into civilian life. host: we are speaking with lieutenant general thomas spoehr from the heritage foundation. thank you for being with this. guest: thank you, appreciate you. host: we will talk about a new documentary on frontline, bonnie bertram will talk about "facing eviction." about evictions during the coronavirus. coming up, we will open phone lines with open forum. (202) 748-8000 for democrats, (202) 748-8001 for republicans, and independents (202) 748-8002. we will be right back.

>> c-span has unfiltered coverage of the u.s. response to russia's invasion of ukraine bringing at the latest from the president and other white house officials, the pentagon as well as congress. we have international perspectives from the united nations and statements from foreign leaders. the c-span now mobile app and c-span.org/ukraine. our web resource page where you can watch the latest videos on demand and follow tweets from journalist on the ground. go to c-span.org/ukraine. >> now available at the c-span shop, c-span's 2022 congressional directory. this spiral-bound book as your guide to the federal government with contact information for every member of congress including bios and committee assignments.

contact information for governors and the bite and biden administration cabinet. every purchase goes to support c-span's nonprofit organization. >> be up-to-date in the latest in publishing with book tv's about books. with current, nonfiction book releases plus bestsellers list as well as industry news and trends. you can find about books on c-span now, or wherever you get your podcasts. >> washington journal continues. host: it is open forum, a chance for you to call in with your thoughts on news items, political issues that we have talked about or what you are following in the news. it is (202) 748-8000 for

democrats, (202) 748-8001 republicans, (202) 748-8002. on c-span3 and on the mobile app, trump set for controversial return to d.c. as 2024 bid looms. when former president donald trump left washington dc in january 2021 under the cloud of the january 6 riots his future and the gop and political politics was uncertain. on tuesday, he will return to the capital for the first time in 18 months. with his grip on the gop study. trump will deliver the keynote speech at a summit hosted by american first public policy institute. i think tank formed by former

president trump aids. let's get to your opinions on national events. first up regina, on the republican mine. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. i want to make a comment about caller that called in when the military person was on. he said that donald trump disparaged the military. made ugly comments about it in everything. donald trump built up the military more than any other president and the last few terms. i would appreciate it if washington journal would stop some of the lies that are told on your show by the democrats that you know it's a bald-faced lie. they are not doing our country any good. donald trump is not the president.

joe biden is the president now, what is he doing for the military? he is a joke. but please, stop some of the ones about donald trump. you people know the truth. please do that. host: from northwest pennsylvania on the republican mine. caller: good morning. acta the mike pence thing. i think he would be a weak candidate in the old song about the press nominating the candidate. it is the one they cover and that is the one we are considering. you had on a wonderful republican. he had been in the lobby.

from oklahoma, such a marvelous person. ben sasse from nebraska. it is a shame that some of these remarkable republicans aren't more in the forefront. they are probably too smart to run. just to wind up, i think we should have a new law that we should not even talk about the next candidate until we are eight months from the day. the minute someone is elected, we are talking about the next fella. it would be so wonderful if we heard more about remarkable republicans such as mark mcmullen. i don't even know the man but he was so good on your show. host: next we have philip on the

republican mine from michigan. caller: pence 2024. when i can get around to it. host: sorry you are breaking up. we will get to connecticut, paul. caller: paul from plymouth. thank god we don't have phonies like we do on am radio. 45 years ago i volunteered under the draft. it was january 1973 that they called off the draft. the popularity within the ranks

in the days of protest in vietnam. when the gentleman spoke and he said there was a lack of support , i am talking about the interview with the heritage foundation general. he mentioned something about the unpopularity of the vietnam war. until the military people in the heritage foundation recognize that, they will not get honest recruits. that is the problem that they face. the younger generation is more truthful than my generation. i did it because i had a sense of duty because both parents served however, i was a nonconformist in a heavily minority vote cap at great lakes. -- boot camp at great lakes.

what about military sexual trauma? why don't you bring in somebody on that one. i know amy klobuchar was on that. there is a lot of interest in not telling the truth about our past wars and tell that is done, we are not going to have that kind of corps. one color did express thoughts about truly bringing it back to the enlisted level with training schools. the military would serve a purpose other than killing. that one caller that mentioned killing. host: when you came out of the navy what was the skill that you used most often in your civilian life? guest: engines, electronics, i served in bermuda, tugboat,

landing craft. subjected to high noise exposure injury on the job. the v.a. was fantastic. everything was great but it was not always that way. the v.a. still has some distance to go. my experience coming out was great because i carried a trade. there were some discriminations like not being able to collect unemployment. the g.i. benefits have been fantastic. when i asked my dad about going in as a 17-year-old volunteering he said the benefits will be fantastic. i did not volunteer to go to fight in vietnam because six months before i volunteered in

1972 my brother was called back and he made it as far as california. we knew that was coming to an end. the ranks did not want the war. they did not want the brass coming in and expending their lives. the tide was turned in coffee houses throughout the country. it was a populist movement within the ranks. people do not give up their political opinions when they go into service and they should not. host: here's a piece from the washington post, the role of the bison in the u.s. planes. they are now climate heroes. indigenous tribes are leading the efforts to bring back the bison. bringing back biodiversity in the ecosystem. they nurture prairies acre after

acre of brush, grasses and heavy vegetations. like much of oklahoma, the road is flat but the speed limit remains 30 miles per hour because of the bison. they appear out of nowhere. dozens of animals lumbering up the road to get to the fresh vegetation at the other side. there bovine eyes barely registering the cars. mowing down the fresh springtime grass. it is one of the many things they do to nurture the entire ecosystem, one that is increasingly under threat from climate change. shaving down acres of vegetation leaving don behind. it spurs new plants in their natural behaviors and habitats they create, many birds that

form symbiotic relationships trickle down the food chains. from fond du lac, we have carol. caller: i am calling about the news of china buying land in south dakota. our government, along with president biden allowing to put our enemy in the heart of our land. there is some chatter about smith field selling out to china. they will grow the pork here and then china will ship it for free and that is one of our exports to china. i believe the biden administration the far left is trying to sell us out to the chinese and you had the general

that one sows to protect america when our own president is putting the enemy in the middle of our nation. it is wrong and people have to look at what is going on here. i hope to god my great-grandchildren don't live underneath a communist regime. host: we will go to joan in minnesota. caller: i had a couple of questions or comments. with our military, we have bases and our servicemen are serving and over 100 countries overseas. back in 1968, foreign countries were not allowed to buy any

properties or own any properties in the united states. 70 things have changed in these years. as far as the military, the sun never sets on the british empire, and right now, the sun never sets on the american military. i do not know if that is correct for our young men who are supposed to defend our country. over in these countries and being a presence there, i don't think it's really the right way to do things. the right way to do things is american businesses pending their businesses overseas. -- sending their businesses overseas. it's not president biden. he is trying to correct years and years and years of things that have been done correctly --

incorrectly in this country. host: calling with your opinions on items in the news, public policy issues. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. for independents and others, (202) 748-8002. a case of monkeypox is confirmed in an infant visiting washington, d.c. mayor muriel bowser writes it is one of two pediatric cases in the country. one case involved a toddler in california, the other involves an infant who is not a residence, but tested while in d.c. health workers have carefully tracked the child's contacts and she does not believe the child was hospitalized. from -- colorado, mike on the independent line.

go ahead and mute your tv and go ahead with your comments. mike in colorado. caller: good morning. i wanted to mention one thing. with the hearings, with everything, the monkeypox, we whistle past the graveyard. the last administration completely -- kushner, the insurance company is, i cannot get my medicare to give me a doctor. i am sitting here dying and i am not worried about myself, i am just going to die. it is right before my time, but the prescriptions i needed -- the medical profession, everybody whistled past the graveyard and we are talking about these superficial things. right now, it's a reason to give everybody a job.

nobody goes to work to accomplish anything anymore. host: tuscaloosa, alabama. up next, charlotte. caller: good morning. yes, i would like to ask a question first. host: yeah, go ahead. caller: we are talking about trump. i'm not against the man, i'm just against what he does sometimes. this comes from the propaganda of putin, which i don't know if you all have seen this, but putin and russia is urging trump to become president again. he says in his word that he would rather complete what he started when he was in the white house. the question i have, the point i want to make is -- a lie needs help to stand, but the truth stands alone.

anyway you want to take that is good with me, because what we are being led into, with a stolen election, is taking many people gripped by the heart of fear with violence. i feel like that is so wrong. thank you. host: russian energy giant gazprom two/energy -- to slash natural gas sent to germany. starting wednesday, the daily gas flow through the nord stream one pipeline will be set at 33 million cubic meters, gazprom says. that's down from 40% capacity. they cited problems with the turbine. germany's ministry for the

economy and climate said it saw no technical reason for the reduction in deliveries open what we are monitoring the situation -- deliveries -- "we are monitoring the situation closely." russia is using this as a pretext to squeeze europe, rising prices and giving president vladimir putin leverage in the war. we hear from paul on the republican line. go ahead, you are on the air. caller: hello, this is rochester, new hampshire. host: sorry about that, go ahead. caller: i have a radical, radical idea. why don't we take all the nuclear weapons that we have, we have less than 200 countries in the world, take all the nuclear weapons we have and put them in a big pot, divide them up equally with all the countries in the world.

then they would not have to develop nuclear weapons. everyone would be worried because their neighbor has nuclear weapons and no one would want to use them because their neighbor would have nuclear weapons, and we could go on to developing and doing things that were necessary for mankind rather than worry about nuclear weapons. host: janelle in rock island, illinois on the independent line. caller: yes, hi. thank you for having me on. i have several different topics -- on the monkeypox thing, when who is talking about monkeypox and the cdc and all that, the spreading is basically, the whole play of monkeypox is basically through semen or vaginal fluids, not to be gross, but it's usually between men --when they talk

about the children and stuff like that, that is really, i think, misinformation and how all of this works. the other thing, military, on the diversity of inclusion issues, i find this to be a challenge for people in the military to be recruiting, because that all has to do with crt. and the lgbtq stuff and all that -- against people who have that, you know, bent. but to be promoting it as though it is a good thing, i think it is a dangerous lifestyle. from a health perspective. i find that to be something that demeans the culture because it

doesn't procreate -- none of that happens, so this is kind of fact. also about trump. i was thinking about him appearing in washington. i find him to be -- yes, he's, he says a lot of things that maybe he just should not say, but the point is when i look at his policies and what happened over time when he was president, to me it is not necessarily as much about who the guy was, as far as what he said -- i didn't agree with a lot of it -- but the point is, what did he do? he had a lot of politicians that could be smooth talkers, they could be not divisive, but they also don't do anything. i think a lot of us are really upset that we have people who

promised us over and over, generation after generation, no matter what party, they promised things, get in power, and get in office and don't do anything about it. a lot of us are not necessarily pro him, we would not have been, there are people who voted for him and people who appreciated his policies, because they were pro-americans, unlike the woman said divisive is in the military -- i don't think so at all. he built up our military. i have family in there and they really liked it, because they were not pushing all this crazy, what i call things that are socially divisive. host: another view on donald trump from jeffrey in las vegas, who sent this text. that disgrace of the president is about to turn to washington, d.c., the scene of the crime. the attorney general of america

needs to approach donald trump and put him in handcuffs while he is there in d.c. in response to the caller that trump buildup our military, that's a lie. he set up old star veterans, -- gold veterans, mock pows and try to pilfer the defense budget to build sections of wall that had more imposing natural obstacles. both parties were getting extremely rich and it is a disgrace. janet in yuma, arizona, retired army. next on the democrat line, go ahead. caller: yes. i am proud and happy to get on here. i am 74 years old. i want to go back to the military in the care of our veterans. i joined the army in 1966.

i did two tours in vietnam. i was wounded twice, i have two purple hearts, to bronze stars, a silver star, and to this date, i am only receiving 20% disability. now, i think it's unfair and i hope someone is listening -- i have been fighting with the military since the late 1990's, trying to get my disability upgraded. host: what's the reason they give you, roger, why you are getting just 20% disability? caller: for one of my wounds, they are saying because it doesn't enable me from movement or whatever, i don't get anything for it. i have the burden of proof of ptsd and some other things -- on

two trump -- onto trump, this guy was a disaster. a disgrace to the united states. that's all i have to say about that. as far as president biden goes, people need to get off his back. he came into a mess and did everything literally possible he could and can to better our situation. thank you again and i enjoy your show, i watch it every day. host: in racine, wisconsin, jim, you're next. caller: good morning, and i am happy for the chance to be able to exercise my first amendment rights. thank you for c-span and the time you put in. looking out my back window -- i live on a block in racine,

wisconsin where there is a lutheran missouri -- church and a catholic church that exist on the same block next to each other. all i can say, maybe that would be an example of what democrats and republicans could do instead of trying to individually exhibit power and acclaim and history, their place in history. if they would take the best of the republican party their ideas, the best of the democrat ideas, we could live like i did in the 1950's, serving in the

navy, the philippines, the vietnam era. it seems like everybody is attacking trump, but they need to remember that while they were making floats in high school and decorating for the prom, he was in a military high school. he went from class to class in uniform -- you know, he served basically in a military type atmosphere environment while everybody else in high school was learning but having a lot of fun. host: to dennis on the democrat line, in toledo, iowa. caller: hi. you had a republican woman caller call in, saying what, that china is buying land in south dakota? last i heard, south dakota is controlled by the republicans.

it's a republican state. for her to blame biden for what south dakota does shows you republican women, and all republicans are just plain stupid. thank you very much. host: marianne, minnesota, republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. i am calling and because i am interested, obviously, but there is one thing people can watch as a documentary, and it is called stop hate. very simply, stophate.com. there is a part called bloody hill. if you want the answers to the truth and what is going on, you should watch that. you can get some answers you really need badly. the country needs to look at these things and realize what is

going on, and it will make you really think and make you cry if you are a patriot. thank you. host: from the wall street journal, pope francis apologizes for "government's part in destruction that devastated their communities." i humbly beg forgiveness for the evils we committed against indigenous people, said the pope. he spoke to an audience of indigenous leaders, elders, and former residential school students, as well as prime minister justin trudeau and governor general mary simon.

his apologies drew applause and cheers, and at the end of the speech, an indigenous leader placed a ceremonial headdress on his head. next, mike. go ahead. caller: good morning. i want to talk about the illegal immigration in the country. if you watch cnn and msnbc, abc, cbs, none of them are actually showing the big invasion on the southern border. they just released numbers, the government did, of 900,000. that's not counting the ones who came in through the border, and the biden administration says the border is closed. but you have the mayor of new york city and the mayor of washington, d.c. now complaining that their homeless shelters are full of illegal aliens. fox and newsmax are the only two

channels that are showing all of this border crossing down there. the liberal channels are unwilling to show it. host: mike in north carolina on our open forum segment. lots more coming up next on the program. we will be joined by documentary director bonnie bertram, and her new pbs frontline documentary "facing eviction." your calls and comments, that's next. ♪ >> c-span has unfiltered coverage of the house january 6 committee hearings, investigating the attack on the u.s. capitol go to c-span.org/january6 to watch the latest videos of the hearings, briefings, and the

latest on the attack and subsequent investigation. we will also have comments from members of congress and the white house, as well as journalists talking about the investigation. go to c-span that org/january -- c-span.org/january6 when you can't see it live. >> listening to programs through c-span radio just got easier. tell your smart speaker, play c-span radio, and listen to "washington journal" at 7:00 a.m. eastern. weekdays at 5:00 and 9:00 p.m. eastern, catch washington report for a fast-paced report on the stories of the day. c-span, powered by cable. >> if you enjoy book tv, sign up for our newsletter using the qr

code on the screen to receive a schedule of upcoming programs, author discussions and more. television for serious readers. >> there are a lot of places to get political information, but only at c-span do you get it straight from the source. no matter where you are from or where you stand on the issues, c-span is america's network. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. if it happens here or here or here or anywhere that matters, america is watching on c-span -- powered by cable. "washington journal" continues. host: documentary writer,

producer, and director of the new pbs frontline film "facing eviction", bonnie bertram, joins us now. welcome to washington journal. guest: great to be here. host: why did you take up the issue of evictions during covid? guest: we have been considering doing a story on housing. the viewer a 2019. -- february 2019. when the covid pandemic hit, we realize this would be a big story, so we pivoted. once the government said th t people need to stay at home, we realized housing was going to be a critical thing. there was a time when you could not travel, so we wanted to capture the stories of people across the country, but could not go anywhere. emily orr, i got on the phone

and started calling legal aid offices. we called judges, constables offices, to see who would let us film. it was hard to get access, because nobody wanted to meet a stranger, right? if you invited someone into your house, who knew what air you would be breathing? we assembled a team of people across the country and got access to some who graciously allowed us to follow them through their journey. host: how did the covid pandemic make the crisis of eviction worse? guest: because staying home meant the difference between whether you could stay safe or not. it's an extraordinary moment in time when you think about what happened, right? recently, president trump told everybody, freeze. nobody gets evicted, everybody stay put, and those four walls

we lived in became our entire world. everyone looked at housing in a different way. this was our tiny world and it suddenly got very small. host: one of your experts in the film, the documentary airing tonight, is with eve action lab -- the eviction lab. why do you use them as a resource? guest: they are an incredible group of sociologists out of princeton university, and it's really hard to collect data on evictions. they do an amazing job. we were lucky to meet and millie denver -- emily denver, a researcher there, and checked in with her to make sure we were understanding things properly. there is a tremendous resource there and they were on board with this project from day one, so we were glad to have emily participate. host: this is a problem that is

not just a problem of renters and people who get evicted, it's a problem with landlords, smalltime in particular, the landlords. guest: that's been interesting, and i am lucky to have been on this story for months at a time. you can see it evolve. as the moratorium ground on and landlords were not allowed to evict people, sympathy turned and people realized that the landlords should not be bearing the brunt of the financial hit the pandemic put on everyone. so it highlighted this issue of the tenant-landlord relationship, and the pandemic put a spotlight on housing in their way we have not seen in a long time. one of the things we were interested to see happen over the course of time, texas was the first state in the country to mandate this diversion

program, where judges tried to get tenants and landlords to talk to each other. if they agreed in this program, the judge would give them a 60 day abatement. -- 60 day abatement period to address their issues. that was an interesting thing to keep an eye on during the pandemic. host: we are opening up our phone calls and phone lines. here is how we are separating our lines for bonnie bertram. for those of you who are renters of any sort, (202) 748-8000. if you are a landlord of any sort, (202) 748-8001. for all others, (202) 748-8002. we do, bonnie bertram, want to show some clips from the film that airs tonight, but i would ask you about the cdc moratorium on eviction.

when was that put in place and did that solve the problem or further complicate the problem? guest: housing expert would tell you it helped solve the problem. the centers for disease control and prevention issued a moratorium september 2020, and it was a broad, far-reaching moratorium beyond what had been implement it in the cares act. when the cdc moratorium came into play, it gave wider protections to tenants and helped tens of millions of renters, who were facing eviction -- it really helps them feel more secure and like they had rights. host: the part of the problem is complicated, between the cdc moratorium and each date having its own laws that govern evictions, and renters rise.

guest: that's another interesting thing. we heard this phrase, eviction moratorium, and nobody in history had ever thought of an eviction moratorium. we wanted to take a deep dive into that and explain what the program was that was going to keep tenants housed and gave money to landlords. but the way it played out came down to such a local level. not just a state level, local level, county level or even city level, but often, what judge you were assigned to in your county court or what constable came to evict you. there was a hodgepodge approach as to how those policies played out. host: bonnie bertram is joining us, her documentary film debuting tonight, "facing

eviction," 10:00 tonight, 9:00 central, and will stream tonight on pbs, on "frontline." bonnie bertram, i wanted to play part of the film where we hear from the woman, alexis hatcher, and her situation. let's watch some of that. [video clip] >> the judge rules while individual states have the power to put such restrictions in place, the federal government does not have the power to make evictions --. >> many people like alexis hatcher were left in a precarious situation. she became one of the first in the state to be evicted. she had been the manager of a shoe store, which closed during the pandemic. she lost her income and fell behind on her rent. >> court documents shows that

hatcher filed the necessary cdc declaration, saying she faced homelessness. still, this week, a judge allowed the eviction to move forward. >> what happened to the alexis, the cdc moratorium was still there. it did not go away, but texas courts decided that the cdc's order no longer applied in texas , as crazy as that is. they started allowing landlords to evict people at will. >> in texas, you have one of the first states to challenge the cdc moratorium and successfully so. >> throughout the pandemic, emily was tracking how states was handling -- were handling evictions. >> much of the evictions were completely dependent on the zip code they lived in. whether or not you stayed in that home depended entirely on whether or not your landlord was going to comply with the cdc

moratorium or a local moratorium, for that matter. what sheriff showed up at your door and what judge you appeared before. host: bonnie bertram, the narrator saying that alexis hatcher, one of the first evicted under texas' law, how did you connect with her and were able to be there the day she's essentially being evicted? guest: we had been in touch with mark melton, an amazing attorney in dallas. a tax attorney. but he quickly realized that tenants have so many questions about how to navigate the moratorium on evictions. he assembled a group of dozens of attorneys that were all working pro bono to help answer questions. we had gotten in touch with mark , and he said, there is an eviction going on right now. alexis was the first person in texas to be evicted under this weird gap -- she thought she was

covered by the cdc moratorium. you are a renter, you hear the cdc moratorium, no addictions. she figured she was covered. texas, as emily said and mark referred to in the piece, texas supreme court did not extend an emergency order, and the emergency order was the instrument by which judges were able to enforce the cdc moratorium. basically, the texas supreme court was giving judges discretion as to how, whether or not they wanted to use the cdc moratorium and apply it to cases. host: where is alexis hatcher today? is she in permanent place? guest: she is. we are happy to report she and her daughter are in a permanent apartment. they have a 12 month lease and have an option to extend it or longer. she is not sure she is going to stay there, she might find someplace new, but she is the rare story. often when people get evicted, it catapults them into this world of uncertainty, that

impacts everything. it impacts their children's schooling, it makes it harder to find a job because they don't have an address, but alexis hatcher was back on her feet and went through this and the best possible outcome. host: is there a direct connection between these evictions and increasing homelessness? guest: there must be. i will tell you that the moratorium on evictions did prevent millions of people being evicted, but evictions are rising back to the levels where they were pretty pandemic. we have a crisis of affordable housing in this country, and that's what it boils down to. yes, that's one of the leading predictors of homelessness, having a home you can't afford. host: bonnie bertram, director of the film "facing eviction" on pbs frontline. for those of you who are renters, host: --(202) 748-8000.

for her landlords, any kind, (202) 748-8001. for all others, (202) 748-8002. lattice in california, a landlord. go ahead. caller: i wanted to say what happened to me during the moratorium -- i am a small landlord. i was taken advantage of because the moratorium -- hello, can you hear me? host: yes, gladys. go ahead with your comments. caller: i had a renter assume that he, he decided he had this that was covid related, which wasn't. he stated my property two years without paying any rent. he moved his brother, his son, his girlfriend and her three kids into the unit and i could not a -- evict them.

they finally let me go to court, and i had to pay thousands of dollars to get an attorney to get him out. he did not have to pay anything. here in los angeles, there is still a moratorium on, so i think it is a disadvantage to landlords and people like this, who take advantage of the system. host: how much money did you wind up losing an lost rent and attorneys fees, gladys, because of this? caller: i don't know, maybe $10,000. that's not a lot to a lot of people, but being a small landlord, that's a lot. he destroyed the property before he left. host: bonnie bertram, this is similar to someone you interview in the film itself, if we could show that in just a bit. guest: if you happen to live in a city that has strong tenant protections, you are right, the moratorium is still in effect in the city of los angeles.

in the course of our reporting, we met a wonderful woman named diane golden, who like you is a property provider. she went through something similar, where she felt she had to evict her tenant and lost rent. diane was able to recoup some of the losses through rent release programs, so you should see what's available, because there are some organizations that are trying to help people like you get some of the money back they lost from pandemic rental income. host: to ohio, richard. good morning. caller: yeah. a major question we have, people got paid that extra money. i can't think of what you call it -- $1200 and the $1400 -- $600. you got that on top of your unemployment. why weren't people able to pay their rent, is the first question, and i have another question? guest: well, their rent costs

more than the money they got. host: richard? caller: well, if they paid it up to that point -- they were getting -- they should have been getting the same amount of money they were if they would have been working with that extra money the government gave them for the year, everybody. guest: do you know what is surprising? over the last 10 years, the people who are considered rent burdens, are paying more than 30% of their income just to pay rent, it has skyrocketed in recent years. i know it is true in ohio and true everywhere, where people who are low income earners, years ago, used to struggle to pay food, and now they struggle to pay rent. the cost of housing has gone up a lot and, you know, i can't tell you why they didn't pay, i just know that renters and

property providers alike needed money. host: your documentary gets into the federal rental assistance programs created during covid. let's watch that portion of the film. [video clip] >> congress passed federal rental assistance, which amounted to 46 billion dollars, the amount the landlord association and apartment association said they needed to make themselves full. >> as the pandemic stretched on, tenants were falling deeper and deeper into debt. >> in the same way that we have never had a moratorium before, we have never had the national infrastructure for rental assistance. states were ill-equipped to actually disperse it through communities. by the end of june 2021, only 3 billion of $46.5 billion had been distributed to the

landlords who needed it, and to prevent the displacement of millions of tenants. >> see you guys. ♪ we had three tenants who stopped paying altogether. it became quite a burden now, because we are talking 10 months, 11 months later now. the tenants owe me $39,000 and change, and that's a very large sum of money that affects everything about the building. in california, all th -- although the governor has claimed there is rent relief and rent relief is coming and we have had to apply, we applied for the three tenants, but due to some of the administrative difficulties in complying with

the application process, the monies still have not come through. host: $46 billion out there. why can't that money get out to landlords like the man in california? guest: we stopped filming last fall. in the subsequent months after we interviewed this gentleman, rich kissel, a lot of the money has been distributed. coffers are expected to run dry in another month or two. by this fall, all the money will have gotten out there. at the time we were putting this together, the money was slow to get funneled out. in the subsequent months, over the summer, it got distributed in a much more efficient manner. host: let's hear from anthony, calling from pueblo, colorado, the renters line. tell us your story? caller: how are you? host: fine, thanks.

caller: that's terrific. i was given a judgment on a place i inherited in 2016, late 2015 with infrastructure failure. after six years, they are holding me for over -- almost $12,000. i went through the court system and was able to, with the pro bono stuff, to bring down to about seven grand, but i am not responsible for this. this is bad infrastructure stuff. guest: are you a landlord, anthony? caller: no. unfortunately, i am a tenant. guest: and you are expected to pick up the tab for an infrastructure failure? caller: yes. they have had problems with the plumbing, problems with everything. his judge, his judgment was, my head was spinning, but he had

better things to do with his day. my pro bono lawyer and everything, we did everything we could to fight it. host: when did you get evicted? caller: i was evicted back in june, june 2. host: of this year? caller: yes. do the job and i tried to make it -- i lost my job and i tried to make it right, but they would not work with me. host: bonnie bertram, your thoughts? guest: i was going to say, one of the things that came out of the pandemic was this relationship between landlords and tenants. if those can be improved, the outcomes will be better for staying house. the landlord does not want to do it, the tenant does not want to do it, and texas, one of the places where alexis hatcher was, texas is the first state in the country to mandate this eviction

diversion program, to tell judges to tell plaintiffs and defendants, tenants and landlords, that if they could participate in this program, it would give them more time for the rental relief money to come through. one of the silver linings of the housing troubles during the pandemic, i think people recognize that the landlord-tenant relationship is key to help stave off evictions. one thing we discovered in our reporting, nearly half of the affordable housing in the united states is provided by these small mom-and-pop property providers and landlords. that was surprising. host: steve, who is in highland park, illinois, a landlord. caller: good morning. i wanted to ask the guest if she had any experience in property ownership or management -- have you ever owned a building or

worked for a company that rented properties, or do you work for a law firm that did evictions? i am curious. you are obviously an advocate for tenants, and i think that if you had the same experience as a landlord -- guest: thank you for that question. i have rented, i have sublet my home, and my family are housing providers. i work hard to be fair to everyone in this story facing evictions. i hope you will watch it tonight , because i think you will see we were fair and profiling landlords, like diane golden and rich kissel, to talk about how it wasn't fair that they were expected to bear the brunt of financial burden of the pandemic. i will say that i am very proud that the wall street journal reviewed our film, and reviewed

it favorably. i hope that is a feather in our cap of helping people like you feel like i am not weighing in on one side or the other. host: here we go to brooklyn, and mary jane, also a landlord. good morning. caller: good morning. i want to talk about, as a landlord, the privilege tenants have. my husband, we own a property in new york. host: mary jane, you are getting confused. make sure you mute your volume on the television and go ahead with the comment. caller: we own a property -- host: she is getting a little

confused, i apologize -- you have to mute your tv or it will further confuse you. those of you who rent, landlords can call (202) 748-8001, tenants can call (202) 748-8000, and all others, (202) 748-8002. have you measured the impact corporations have had on evictions, from low-wage jobs to corporations buying up housing? guest: none of the things we were worried about early on in the pandemic, the smalltime property owners, there was concern that if they missed too many months of rental income, they were going to have to miss mortgage payments and get foreclosed upon, and a lot of the housing stock in the united states that is provided for lower income tenants would

disappear and fall into the hands of corporate entities. i think the federal rent relief program helped avoid that problem. what's been interesting to watch, what we are seeing is corporate property managers are moving not so much into the apartment building sector, but the single home sector. so if you want to rent a three bedroom, two bath home, that's being more and more bought up and managed i property -- buy property, corporate real estate organizations. host: let's hear from philip on the renters line in los angeles. good morning. caller: yes, thank you for the opportunity to speak. i would like to as ms. bertram -- ask ms. bertram if she is familiar with an

organization in los angeles called housing is key. i don't know if you can hear me -- host: yes, we can. caller: i don't know if you are or not, but i apply to this organization to get rental relief during covid. i am 82 years old and i am disabled, and i waited for eight months after they said they had all my documents, all my paperwork, everything, and they needed to process my application. i called them every other week to make sure the application was proceeding. and then i find out, after all this time, that they denied me because i had to borrow money because i waited so long for them to help me, that i borrowed some money to pay my rent. [inaudible]

and they denied me because of that money borrowed. [inaudible] host: philip, i'm sorry, we have to let you go. you are breaking up. bonnie bertram, i did not get all of his comments, but -- guest: i think philip is referring to the administrative snags people were experiencing. the landlord on los angeles in his end, he was experiencing the same thing. government programs do not run as quickly or smoothly as we would like them too, but i will tell philip and other people out there that $46.5 billion has been mostly distributed and spent. in the city or county of los angeles, there is still money to

be distributed. folks shouldn't give up. housing is key -- we were working with different organizations, both the landlord and the tenant side in l.a. host: you are the director of this film, facing eviction, which you are doing in partnership with frontline tonight. that's a nonprofit news organization. what other stories have you covered for them? guest: i did a story about how lots of people, this is before the pandemic and the covid vaccine, but how people came to be skeptical in vaccine efficacy . we did that in partnership with the new york times. i did a story about women being harassed online on social media.

i did a story, sort of the history of transgender rights in terms of the larger context of the fight for gay rights. our goal is to look at current events in a historical context. when we wanted to look at housing, we wanted to look back at the historic precedent. what will happen that informs this moment? what has happened before? my amazing team at retro port looked at hooverville, the slums that grew up around the depression, and we could not a historical antecedent. we realized this moment was unprecedented in history, so we wanted to capture this very moment and document it as a historical rarity in time.

it puts such a bright light on housing and the government was testing out these different policies that have never been enacted before. it's crazy to think that the president of the united states said to everybody, nobody moved. then the government stepped in and said, we will give you money to cover your back rent, give landlords money to cover utilities that had not been paid for. it was a unprecedented and historic moment we tried to capture from the lived experiences, not just the policy perspective. a lot of times, housing policy feels over there. we are all living in our own homes and on zoom. what would it be like to be on the precipice of losing that?

i would like to again reiterate that as things war on --wore on, landlords had less at stake. they would not lose their home. we went out of the way to find landlords experiencing that pinch. it's not working as well as it could for both the tenants and the landlords. this is a moment in time where people could experiment with different approaches and policies, and we could come out of it with a new approach that makes everything better. host: the new film tonight takes a look at the emotional toll evictions take. let's take a look at some of tonight's program. [video clip] >> the day she was evicted, alexis hatcher and her daughter spent the night at her grandmother's house, but she was worried about covid and continued looking for somewhere else to stay.

>> are you on the southern side of arlington or northern side? >> how can we help you? >> i was wondering if you have anything available for a week? >> a week straight? that's $99 per night. saturday through the following saturday. >> saturday to saturday? >> yes ma'am. >> that's so expensive, oh god! >> good afternoon, how can i help you? >> hi, i had a couple of questions. first, i was wondering if you guys have anything that's available for 90 away? -- a week? >> no, nothing we will be able to get you until sunday or monday. >> how can i help you?

>> we were talking about the one-week room? i couldn't remember if you said it would be available today or tomorrow? >> hold on, please -- how many? >> one adult, one child. >> ok, i got your book. i will see you tomorrow. >> thank you so much. >> [inaudible] >> yes ma'am, thank you. >> i will see you, bye-bye. >> yay! >> i know. we got that done, right? >> yay! >> i am glad i have the daughter that i have, because not all kids are so understanding and accepting. she feels my energies. she feels my energies. she knew something wasn't right. she was expecting something was going to happen, but one thing

she knows, mommy is always there. mommy is still here, so it must be ok, you know? even though she knows her stuff is not at home, even though she knows we are not going back there, she doesn't know we don't have a home. host: bonnie bertram, we see alexis hatcher trying to get a place to stay. how many places did she have to bounce between before she found a longer-term rental situation? guest: she first had to find a hotel for her daughter and herself to stay in. there was that round of phone calls. in two weeks later, another round of phone calls to around of apartment buildings. it is a full-time job for these people to do the application for rental release and reorganize their life in that scramble. there is another tenant way profiled in new jersey, who like

a lot of people during the pandemic, worked an overnight shift. she fell behind in her rent and was evicted. you can see her struggle, where she is trying to get organized, she is trying to get some rest, but she is sleeping most of the day because she has been up all night. i do not know if you have ever worked an overnight shift, but it is really disorienting and hard to do things that other people take for granted, because you are struggling to stay awake. this woman, every single thing is a challenge for her. zoom hearing was difficult to figure out, the technology was complicated -- alexis is a best case scenario and an amazing mom and a very capable and able person. host: let's see if we can get a call or two more. claudia in kenosha, wisconsin. good morning.

caller: hi, good morning. i was calling because for approximately 20 years, i worked in an agency. i did not work for a housing program, actually i did eligibility for programs like food stamps, medical assistance, childcare and the like. when there was the 2008 downturn in the economy, many people already, their employment and so forth was already compromised. because of that, many agencies had to change the way they processed eligibility for all of those other safety net programs. of course, that eventually affects people's housing, because if you are spending more on other things, often times rent, of course, becomes compromised also. one of the big changes people often don't think of, when

agencies had to change how they administered programs, many workers who did skills training in those agencies had to be let go. obviously, there weren't jobs, so many of the jobs programs were terminated or put on pause. that was a good thing -- why send people out or force them to look for a job to get food stamps if there were not any jobs? the work programs were suspended, but so were the workers who provided people with all kinds of information about how to resolve problems with landlords or where to find other assistance in the community. so it changed things enormous lay. -- enormously. to make things more efficient, many agencies instead of having

workers in the building, went to a call center model. incident those people being able to call a worker, they can't. host: we are running short on time. bonnie bertram, a quick response to our caller? guest: i hope you will watch the film tonight. we will meet this wonderful woman who works at the salvation army in dallas named janine smith. she liked you -- she, like you, is involved in helping with these charities and is a wonderful person. host: our guest, bonnie bertram, director of the film "facing eviction." it debuts tonight on frontline at 10:00 eastern, 9:00 central on pbs. thank you for being on the program this morning. host: guest: my pleasure. host: that will do it for the program. we are back tomorrow at 7:00 eastern and we hope