>> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we're funded by these television companies and more including comcast. >> do you think this is just a community center? no. it's way more than that. comcast is partnering with a thousand community centers to create wi-fi enabled areas so communities can get the tools they need for anything. >> comcast supports c-span as a public service, along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. -- or wherever you ger podcast. host: we are joined by retired lieutenant general thomas spoehr here to talk to us about the recruitment challenges the u.s. military is having particularly the u.s. army.

recruitment is down in all four branches. what is going on and tell us the scope of the problem for the military. guest: this is the worst year the military has had in recruiting since 1973 when the draft was done away with. they had some hiccups, they miss their goals some years. this year all services are having a hard time in the army will miss their goal by tens of thousands of soldiers. the labor market, it is hard to hire people. there are many other contorting causes as well. host: the new york times cover this last week, with few able, and fewer willing it is difficult to find recruits. finding the pandemic, tight labor market and demographic shifts, the armed forces may fall short of enlistment quotas this year. how do they set there quotas

each year? guest: they have models based on their size of service based on what they can reach. that was 485,000 active-duty soldiers. they set their models in how many soldiers they needed to recruit. ever since then, they have been struggling. every year they have revised those goals downward because of their projections they would not meet them. host: how are the branches different with recruiting? guest: the army has to get several soldiers, the marines cannot take as many so they invest more and it. they put more emphasis into recruiting. their chief recruiter reports directly to the commandant of the rheem core. each service is slightly different. they don't have to make the numbers that the army does.

the army has to make 70,000, air force is 30,000. host: are we facing the same problems in the noncommissioned ranks as in the commissioned ranks? guest: not as much. the pull of rotc programs continues to be strong. they have more candidates than openings. we are ok in terms of commissioned officers. host: has the congress over the years, and particularly going back 20 years post 9/11, has the congress sufficiently supported pay increases, benefits, etc. for the military branches? guest: the congress has been generous with their paid benefits. they have tried to keep up with the public sector. they have revised the g.i. bill.

you cannot only get your tuition paid for but housing, a stipend for books. the best education benefit in the united states. host: what was your motivation for enlisting or going into the academy to begin with? guest: i was in rotc. i did not have strong prospects at the end of my college time. i loved my parents, but i did not want to go home. i thought let's give the army a try. i was a bit uncertain about the whole matter but it worked out wonderfully for me. host: did you think i was going to give this for years or so and then i will get out? guest: my wife and i had this discussion every four years or so. she asked me if i am having fun? and so i stayed in. we will set up a phone line for active military. democrats that number is (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001 independents (202)

748-8002. if you are active or retired military that line is (202) 748-8003. you were quoted in the piece in washington examiner, can america's all volunteer military survive? you said this is a drought. the drought we are having out in the west, that is a tough word for where we are. guest: every trend i look at, demographics, qualification standards, unemployment. i don't see any hope around the corner. how do we recruit in a difficult environment? host: what is the reason behind it all? what is the reason for an all

volunteer force? guest: i was in the army when people were drafted. i came in and those people did not want to be there. if it is composed of people that really did not want to be there. you can tell that the moment you come in the door. we had a force that was not there first choice. in a draft, people typically serve two years. in a forest where it is always turning over two years, the turbulence is high. it is difficult to have a highly trained force. host: where is the army concentrating most of their recruitment? i say the army because that is where the biggest gap is. where are they concentrating their recruitment efforts? guest: they have gotten their most recruits out of the southeast in texas.

they are doubling in los angeles, denver and chicago. places where they have not gotten much access. they are not leaving any rock unturned. host: the challenge in the labor market with pay going up at a number of places, how can the army and other branches respond to that? what can they offer? guest: they have thinks that amazon and starbucks do not have. there is a chance for travel, a chance to serve your country. a chance to do something bigger than yourself. you will learn leadership, beaded team, give orders and respect others. you can't equate the experience in the military with any other job in america. host: your view is that we had a surgeon recruitment after 9/11. what is the role of patriotism?

what role does patriotism play in people volunteering? guest: it's important and it gets half of the people in the door. the other half come in for a variety of reasons. they want to leave their town that they live in. they are looking for opportunities for themselves are a small family. that gets them in the door and many of them stay for different reasons. they like it. they like the patriotism and serving their country. i don't worry about what gets them in the door. i did not know much about the army before i got there. host: there was a stretch where recruiters prohibited on campus. where does that stand now? guest: i think 9/11 -- harvard was a standout. it is still a problem.

even in high school where recruiters attempt to come in and talk to people, high schools will put barriers in the place for recruiters access to young people. host: the new york times talked about recruiters approaching people in walmart, approaching people where they are. guest: i love the fact that they are going out and trying to find people where they are. in high schools, it is fairly easy to say no to recruiters and that is the last you hear of it. i respect that idea because a lot of people don't know much about the military. host: we will get the calls in just a minute. the line for active retired military is (202) 748-8003. i wanted to play the response of a retired general.

[video clip] >> to the question of where we are recruiting, we targeted 22 cities across the country's in urban areas where you have higher concentrations of african-americans or higher concentrations of hispanic americans to try to reach a demographic communities that we have not reached in the past as successfully. that is what we set up internships for hispanic american and african-american officers to encourage them to come into the car back arms. we need to do more of that. we are facing recruiting headwinds because the economy is doing well. every private sector is competing for talent. we are competing against that too.

we have to do more to find out how we can talk to a wider band of americans about the value proposition is for them in the army. host: what did you hear from the army secretary? guest: i heard a lot of innovation and that is what is needed. the model that got us to 2022 is not the model that will succeed. we have to think about bringing people into the military. host: in the past, how important was it to enlist someone whose family had her tradition of service? guest: we don't rely on that but that is how it is happen. over 70% of people have a family member that has served. that has been key for us and that is important but we can't rely on that for the future. host: let's get to callers for retired lieutenant general thomas spoehr on recruiting more broadly. tony is on our retired line.

tony, from texas. caller: i appreciate you letting me join in on this important call. without defense, this country is down the drain. i spent 37 years working with the department of the army. i am very proud. it gave me a livelihood. i was the da civilian and i worked alongside the corps of engineers, nwr, fort garrison. fort benning, what i see happening, the voluntary services started in 1973. the housing of the military is the number one cost when it comes down to family.

the problem of which the general has already stated is very obvious. there are three or four things i would like to share. going out on the world population for the future, the u.s. aging force is 300,000 retiring. i retired this past year. the military is going to see more and more of that as time goes on. the world population reports the forecast for the age group 16-24 will be in a negative state by 2024. the projection for the world population will go down to 2060.

host: thank you for that. pointed out those demographic challenges. guest: thank you for your service to the army and congratulations on your retirement. most of the countries in the world, the young people population is staggering or decreasing. our young people population is at least staying the same at about 31 million americans. the only reason it is not going down is because of immigration. that is legal immigration. the u.s. fertility rate is below the replacement rate. we have a demographic problem. in the past, we have been able to rely on the growing young population. these young people are being

relied upon by an aging population to provide their benefits. host: let's go to north carolina, also retired military. caller: some of the issues that i see with the trouble with recruiting good people to go into the military as they a lot of people being forced out due to the vaccine mandates. deborah birx came out and said the vaccines are a fraud. i see where the politics are in interference as well. years before president biden took over, we witnessed how corrupt ukraine was and now with the prospects of going to have

to fight a war against russia on behalf of ukraine is not very enticing to new recruits. nobody wants to fight the russians over ukraine. it goes beyond housing and demographics, there are also political issues that are adversely affecting the military currently. that is all i would like to say. host: you saw these trends well before the invasion of ukraine. guest: in 2018 they miss their recruiting goals and ever since then, they have missed their goals. the disparity is so big that they have to say they are going to miss their goals by tens of thousands of soldiers. there is no camouflaging this problem anymore. host: let's hear from carol from clarksville, tennessee.

caller: i wanted to say that the african-americans, he never made in east seven. he was always told when he was tried to get the credits, classes for moving up in ranks. after 17 years in the military of him trying to move up. next thing you know, they were asking him to leave. he was doing the work of an e7 when they sent him to let the way now.

i don't think the promotional system is fair to african-americans. guest: thank you for your son surface to the army. i can't speak to the promotional circumstances he was in. the army, like every human endeavor is fallible. even though they tried their best, occasionally the promotional system does not work as it should. again, thank you for your son service. host:pew research shows the demographic shifts showing a growing representation of minorities. 2004 versus 2007. as of 2017 they were 43%. much of that growth is with the hispanic community in the u.s.. we have often seen that service

members who are children of immigrants often have gotten their citizenship as they have served. how much is that a motivation for someone to join a military force? guest: typical path right now, you have to have a green card to enter the military. if you have a green card, you are on an expedited path to citizenship. that is always been a path for new immigrants to get a head start in their careers on becoming american citizens. host: let's hear from ed, retired military, jacksonville, florida. caller: retired army, served in vietnam, afghanistan and iraq. i take exception to the vietnam

people not wanting to be there. the quality of soldier i met in vietnam was just as much of a quality of soldier as those in iraq and afghanistan. i currently have a grandson that is in the army at fort meade and it seems to be that the motivation comes from inside the military motivating people to stay in. that is my question. guest: thank you for your service and all those conflicts. i did not mean to imply the vietnam generation was not a great generation. i was speaking in general terms about when you have people who don't want to be there it is harder to motivate them. i can't speak too clearly to your question. for me at least, it is about the small unit.

how are the leaders at the installation at your unit? if they are good people want to stay at that installation and unit. host: retired lieutenant general thomas spoehr. braun from seattle is on the republican mine. caller: i am retired united states army. 16 years as an active duty recruiter. recruiter for the state of washington and alaska. my father-in-law serve 32 years. i served as a personal photographer for a lieutenant general down in texas. the traditions of yesterday are gone.

the customs and values are no longer enforced. you do away with all of our traditions and history and we have nothing left. you have to bring back being all that we can be by supporting the troops by instilling the spirit of corps. we have to get back to the basics. crt that is killing us. i look forward to your response. guest: think again for your service. i spoke with the army chief of staff yesterday. he says they are bringing back the slogan "be all you can be." without tradition, without esprit de corps. recruiting

duty is a hard duty. you are off by yourself and you are telling by your headquarters you have to produce five recruits a month. there is no one to turn to for help. there is no partner you have, you are on your own. host: are we less of a nation of joiners than we used to be? not just the military, but organizations in general. particularly among the age group that the military is trying to recruit. guest: generation z loves to connect. whether they want to connect with the larger active ms. eight and is yet to be seen. host: the question of a draft

keeps coming up. guest: i visited israel a couple of times. there is a common bond they have together. other countries still have a draft like norway. i don't think it would work in the united states. we have moved past that. it would not be politically acceptable and we would not like the military we would result with if we developed a draft again. host: here is joe from north carolina. caller: we do need the draft to be reinstated. i was drafted. we need to teach her children pride in this country. we have failed. being drafted does not mean you have less of a soldier. you will have more of a soldier. you instill integrity.

you go into the army for one thing and that is to eliminate the opposition. we have forgotten that. when i was drafted and put in the service, i was told what is the purpose of the bayonet? to kill. you are there to save our country and people. that is all i have to say. host: general? guest: we probably disagree about the draft. i take nothing away from the generations of people who served their country in uniform. >> we're leaving this to honor our more than 40-year commitment to live gavel-to-gavel coverage of congress. the house is coming in now to debate some 27 bills including one calling for a study on how covid-19 impacts brain function. and another requiring safety standards to help prevent choking on