tonight at 8 p.m. eastern, the committee looks at president trump's actions and response to the assault with testimony from the former debiting national security advisor, matthew pottinger, and former white house deputy press secretary sarah matthews. watch tonight on c-span, or anytime on demand at c-span.org. host: our focus on the irs now with a senior reporter with bloomberg tax and with the news that the irs is conducting a major safety and security review at facilities across the country. guest: the irs announced it is going to be conducting a review of security measures in light of some messages that are seen as concerning and president biden's inflation reduction act. the irs is getting an additional $80 billion and that is going to

some agencies that have included the agency and employees and that is why it is conducting the security review. host: you are talking just threats at this point, no specific attacks. >> guest: correct. host: the memo that sparked this conversation we are having this morning, here is part of what he wrote in recent days. an abundance of misinformation and social media posting, some threats directed at irs employees are aware of these concerning messages, and i want to assure you that your safety is and will continue to be our top irc. how many employees are there at the irs? how many facilities are we talking about for what seems like a very broad review? guest: several hundred, and they have between 70 and 85 employees. host: it would be the irs

employees union: for this review, even before this announcement, correct? guest: correct. the union conducts this type of review because some of the members are reporting that they are feeling unsafe. one of the things is for the irs to minimize, for the time being, some of the interactions that irs employees will have face-to-face with taxpayers because employers are concerned about their safety. host: more phone calls, more waiting on the phone? less in person meetings? guest: others michael out into the field or the irs has taxpayer spending, there are thoughts that may be some employees want to minimize the spending in person. host: when with the last time there was a review like this, the last time the irs was so concerned about threats that

they did some sort of security upgrade? guest: the last time the irs did a security review was in the wake of the bombing of the federal facility in oklahoma city. host: and what was the result of that? guest: i'm not sure. host: one of the reasons that you cite with the inflation reduction act. specifically, the irs focus at $80 billion over the next 10 years. what is that going toward? guest: the majority of the money is allocated for enforcement which will focus on increasing enforcement efforts against high income taxpayers and corporations and public partnerships. but some of the money will also go to upgrading the irs technology which is pretty outdated, and also to customer service things like increasing the number of people who can answer the phones. host: how many people are we talking about?

this number, 87,000 keeps floating around. guest: the figure that you see is based on the estimate that the department released last year. sometimes you will see republican politicians refer to it as 87,000 agents. 87,000 employees or however many they end up being would not all be agents. they would be employees across the agency, but also people who would be working on technology assistance, answering the phones, and the treasury department also says the irs is expecting to use other attrition in the coming years, so a lot of the new hires would be just to replace people who are leaving. treasury has also allowed the hires to go beyond just replacing people who are retiring which would be focused

on customer service. host: when you say "agents," we generally are talking about armed law enforcement agents, correct? guest: the irs only actually has about 2000 people who work in criminal investigations who carry weapons. so it is a very small percentage of the workforce that does that. that is not really where this money is focused. host: why does the irs have a criminal investigations unit? what did they do? guest: sometimes there are crimes that are tax crimes, and the irs investigates them. they do stuff working on financing issues, a wide array of things that relate to the tax code. my understanding is that criminal investigation agency has not discharged their weapons

at all in the past few years. a whole bunch of irs agents are going to come down on people and that is not the case. host: one example of that talking just referred to from fox news earlier this month, senator chuck grassley, is interviewing fox news, here is a bit of what he had to say. >> apparently, the irs is going to hire a whole bunch of new people and one of the job postings said this: if you get this job, you've got to be able to carry a firearm and be willing to use deadly force if necessary. the willing and able to participate in arrests, execution of search warrants, and other dangerous assignments. so it sounds like the irs is arming up. >> are they going to have a strike force that goes in with

ak 15's already loaded, ready to shoot some small business person in iowa? because i think they are going after middle class and small business people because basically, they think anybody that has passive income is a crook and they aren't paying their fair share, and we are going to go after then, and with 87,000 additional employees, you can imagine what that arrest was going to be to middle-class americans in our small business people. >> what happened between those two seats in georgia, they have to jam it down the american peoples' throats. host: the job posting that was referred to in that interview, explain what that was. guest: i think that was for a position in the criminal investigation division. they mentioned about 2000 people in criminal investigations who can carry weapons, but that

occurred independently of this new funding plan. the treasury has directed the irs to come out with a plan in six months detailing how it is going to be using the spending, and we are waiting to see what that looks like and what the details are. i just want to highlight something that senator grassley said. i think he said something about how the irs would be coming after middle class taxpayers and people who have small businesses. the treasury department has said pretty explicitly we are not going to be increasing audit rates for taxpayers making under $400,000 per year. host: with us this morning as we talk about the irs, this additional money from the irs, the concern that sparred safety

and security review that is ongoing. phone lines if you want to join the conversation, republican, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independent, (202) 748-8002. we will start in kingston, new york, line for democrats. bruce, are you with us? caller: yes, good morning. i want to make a general statement. first, i tried to watch c-span regularly and i agree with the idea that too many trolls are all in talking points that just really interrupt real conversation. i'm going to leave it at that. it is trolling and is talking points in it is interruptive. but the main point i want to make about the irs, grassley in particular is a good example of

how a baseline of aggravation, it doesn't matter whether it is the irs or not. it is very clear that they are not defending middle-class or lower-class businesses trying to get started. i was part of that. we were practically put out of business because we got hit with the estimated income that we never made. and we had to say that for three years. and they took the money. we got some of it back, but the idea that the irs is suddenly going to be attacking small citizens is simply ridiculous. they don't need to defend that. they've been doing that for a long time and frankly, they go after people because they can't defend themselves with finances. this is really about corporate protection and big money. they are worried about finally

being invested and the whole idea of downsizing the irs and every other institution in this country wants to be able to not hold these people accountable. this is not just the irs, these are institutions across the board that have been downsized in order to not protect the american public. host: what do you want them to pick up on? guest: i think that, to go back to this being a portion of the inflation reduction act, democrats included this in the law because they want to have the irs require that wealthy taxpayers and corporations pay the taxes that are already owed. this is not a tax increase, this is about increasing the compliance rate in reducing the tax cap, the difference between

the amount paid in the amount owed. that has a lot to do with the motivation the democrats are putting in today. host: talking about downsizing the irs. the history of downsizing at the irs, but should be no? guest: the irs has done a deal of budget cuts between the and when republicans were in control of congress. definitely has been a talking point that the president talked about, abolishing the irs. it is something you hear republicans talk about a lot. the irs has said because of these budget cuts, the workflow has to shrink as a result of it including for the wealthy. host: maryland, republican, good morning. you are next. caller

>> for those making between 35,000 hundred thousand dollars .2% of great. those of the numbers for. >> they're fairly low in general, and the highest for the highest income tax payers.

the administration says they are not increasing the rates on people making under $400,000 year. >> 218 in cincinnati, line for democrats, good morning. -- two one nita in cincinnati. >> the biggest excitement we have had over the past years, the people have tried to attack the fbi facility in cincinnati. the irs has not come after anyone in our city with guns and years. -- in years. someone like chuck grassley knows better. attire what they do have, hamilton, warren county.

they have boys who attacked the fbi compound, that is our problem and his problem in iowa. as far as the eye arrest attacking people with guns that is total -- irs attacking people guns that is total nonsense. >> to angela, good morning. >> i have a small business, i filed a schedule c as a pass-through. they show numbers of 4000 -- 4, 5, 6 million dollars, the number i keep is much less. when they talk about the $400,000 figure other talking with the schedule c or the adjusted gross income of my 1040? >> i think it is more likely to be focused on adjusted gross income. there are circumstances may be

where someone is dramatically underreporting the amount of income baxley have. the -- they actually have. the irs would want to gather that. if someone reports they made $100,000 and they made $1 million the irs might be interested in auditing that person. >> we are talking with naomi of bloomberg tax, you can call up host: --(202) 748-8000. four -- as one if we could shift gears and focus back on student loans, the forgiveness plan announced by the president yesterday. the tax implications, have you looked at what that could mean for people who are forgiven 10,000 or $20,000 in their student loans? >> last year congress passed a coronavirus