also columbia universities christopher mayer talks about the housing market and the possibility of a housing recession. washington journal starts now. >> too much of what is happening is not normal. donald trump and the republicans represented extremism that threatens the foundations of our republic. host: president biden in a primetime address to the nation from the historic independence hall with marines behind him and only two months to go before the midterm elections saying that the former president, possibly

his political opponent is a threat to american democracy. we want to get your reaction to the president's speech. democrats (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001 and independents (202) 748-8002. you can also send your comments via text also includes city and state at (202) 748-8003. you can also send a tweet at http://twitter.com/cspanwj. the former president is likely to respond when he holds a rally this saturday in pennsylvania as well 7:00 p.m.. we will cover that live here on c-span as well as on our app. a little bit more from the president's speech last night in

the scene he invoked from philadelphia. [video clip] >> as i stand here tonight, equality and democracy are under assault. we do ourselves no favor to pretend otherwise. so tonight, i have come to this place where it all began to speak as plainly as i can to the nation. about the threats we face, about the power we have in our own hands to face these threats in the incredible future that lies in front of us if only we choose it. we must never forget, we the people are the true heirs of the american experiment that began more than two centuries ago. we the people, have burning inside of each of us the flame of liberty that was lit here at

independence hall. the flame that lit our way through abolition, the civil war, suffrage, the great depression, the world wars, civil rights, that sacred flame still burns. now in our time, as we build in america that is more prosperous, free and just, that is the work of my presidency, a mission i believe in with my whole soul. host: your reaction to the president speech in philadelphia yesterday. yvonne in milwaukee, wisconsin a democratic collar. caller: i thought his speech was excellent. it is a call for all of us to come together. we have to think about the country instead of parties if we

want to maintain our democracy. that is what we have to do. for all of you maga republicans who are against democracy, you have to learn to think for yourselves. you will end up in prison if you listen to president trump. it is country over party. host: michael is a republican. caller: he mentioned prosperity, he mentioned crime. i think prosperity it is only for certain people in this country right now. it will only be the people who are already prosperous and everyone will keep lagging

behind because nothing he passes will ever bring anything up to anybody else. certainly not the rich people. host: are you voting for republicans this fall and do you plan to vote? caller: i am not sure yet. i don't see any change for the past 20 years in this country. they never really address the issues where you have the wealth gap. i know that sounds like a democratic issue but i am pretty fair when it comes to issues. i think they have never focused on the people themselves. you go to work every day, try to pay their college bills. i don't see any change and i don't see him changing anything as well. i'm not a fan of the republicans either.

host: does that include the former president? caller: i'm sorry? host: you said you are not a fan of republicans, does that include the former president? caller: i'm not a huge fan of the way he speaks. i was a fan of the way he was going to change things but anyone who was an outsider, they will crash. it doesn't matter if they are a democratic or republican candidate. they are happy with the way things run in this country. that is the way it is been for many years. they don't want to make themselves obsolete. host: when is the last time you voted? caller: last election. host: who did you vote for if you don't mind me asking? caller: i voted for trump. host: you don't sound that

enthusiastic about the midterms, and my reading that correctly? caller: i think i realized that nothing will really ever change. you get a democrat on the line, they will be for biden. if you get a republican, they will be for trump. and independent will probably give you the better answer of where the country is going to go. even then, i don't see things going the way they are going to go. host: what do you do for a living? caller: i own a business. host: a small business. caller: it's been hard not only for me but for a lot of people. i feel sorry for my employees. it's hard to keep them with ours. i see how hard they work. it makes me really sad that

everyone underneath these people, they struggle. when he says prosperity i don't even know what he is talking about. host: the hill newspaper reports on a new quinnipiac poll that the majority of both parties think democracy is in danger of collapsing. 70 2% of democrats and 70% of republicans have fears about the future of democracy. the fears are higher among women in higher by one point among white adults than black adults. margaret in pennsylvania, and independent. did you watch last night, what'd you think? caller: i watched this morning but i thought it was an excellent speech. like the saying goes, we are

striving for a more perfect union. i do believe that we must continue to work together regardless of what side of the aisle you are on. host: when is the last time you voted republican? caller: it has probably been a while. i was a republican for many years. when i worked on my masters degree, i changed my party affiliation to independent because i did not want to impact my students. host: gary from new york. how are you gary? we are listening gary. caller: i don't think he did anything to unite the country. he talked about maga republicans

and he did not talk about the issues. we have a 9% inflation rate. we have crime. we have all kinds of problems and all he talks about is maga republicans. he is so much against crime, he talks nothing about blowing up police stations. if the democrats keep congress, they will go on a spending spree in this country will go down the tubes. he is already on a spending spree. it will just get worse and worse. we spend billions of dollars on another country, we have homeless veterans sleeping on the streets. this guy is a bum. host: we will listen to the president last night in his

remarks on maga republicans. [video clip] >> first we must be honest with each other and ourselves. too much of what is happening in our country today is not normal. donald trump in the maga republicans represent in extremism that threaten the foundations of our republic. i want to be very clear up front , not every republican is a maga republican. not every republican embraces their extreme ideology. i know because i have been able to work with these mainstream republicans. the republican today is driven by donald trump and the maga republicans and that is a threat

to this country. these are hard things but i am an american president, not a president of red america or blue america, but of all america and i believe it is my duty, my duty to level with you into tell the truth no matter how difficult, no matter how painful. here in my view is what is true, maga republicans do not respect the constitution. they do not believe in the rule of law or recognize the will of the people. they refuse to accept the results of a free election and are working right now as i speak in state after state to give power to decide elections to cronies to undermine democracy itself. maga forces are determined to

take this country backwards to an america where there is no right to choose, no right to privacy, no right to contraception, no right to marry who you love. they promote authoritarian leaders in fan the flames to file it, they are a threat to justice and the rule of law. host: president biden's primetime address. you can find it on her website c-span.org. newsmax called it divider in chief. a listen to stephen miller who was an advisor to president trump. he was on fox news last night and this is his reaction to the speech. [video clip] >> president trump poured out

his heart, soul and spirit every day to build a better america. a safer, more prosperous america. while democrats launched an illegal operation to kick him out. president biden did his speech of a dictator using the words of a dictator. this was an enemies of the state speech. like every other radical leftist tyrant, he accused his opponents of being fascist while he engaged in oppressive authoritarian behavior. he is the one who has violated our consultation to open our nation's border. he is interfering in the relationship between parents and

child to force hormone therapy. president trump has the right to decide what is or is not in te s best interest of national security when he leaves office. he seems to be a man who can claim the best interest of this country at heart and he is truly committed to splitting this country into an beginning an era of division and an era of hatred that will wound our soul if it is not repaired for generations to come. host: stephen miller on fox knows. john from california, a republican.

what is your reaction to the president last night in his remarks from independence hall? caller: good morning greta, good morning america. what a mean man biden has turned out to be? what'd the maga republicans due to america? we had low inflation, low pass prices. what did donald trump do so bad to america that biden is speaking and hyperbole, speaking this way to americans? biden is in the war with russia. china almost new dose. china pulled out of the kleiman agreement, does anybody realize what that does to biden's

climate bill? we are the only people on the globe now because biden tries to mitigate the environment, it wasn't the republicans that did this? and finally, were they there to kill trump with all the machine guns they took into mar-a-lago? host: why do you think that? caller: why do i think that? that maneuver could've been handled with five people dressed in suits and ties. there did not need to be a military use of force. mar-a-lago is not a fortress it is a country club. you don't go in with 30 automatic weapons. they were going to kill trump

and don't make any mincemeat about it. you have valerie jarrett, the biggest communist in the american government. remember her name. she is the killer of america. we have a chinese president. we may already be chinese. this guy offers no solutions. it is all hyperbole and hate. host: here is a wall street journal poll. how was the fbi search of trump's mar-a-lago home impact your vote, 64% of republican said more likely, but 63% of them said no impact of independence. the same number from democrats.

just over half of registered voters say it was appropriate. given a choice between two statements, a 52% majority think the fbi's search was appropriate to see if the president's actions were an example of wrongdoing. while 41% believed it as a witchhunt by the democrats. we will go to columbia, south carolina. caller: the last guy to talk, everything he said is the opposite. do you love donald trump or do

you love america? donald trump is the man cherry churian candidate. you have to go back to when it started. why would any former president bring so much trouble to america? he was told to do it. you have to wake up. host: roy in florida, a democratic caller. caller: i thought it was a very good speech. i think it is what we need in this country because we are so divided right now.

stephen miller doesn't even know how to tie his shoes. he is pretty pathetic. i can tell you right now, if people continue on this warpath it will not be good. it will hurt the country and bring it down. host: which warpath are you talking about? caller: the one coming out of the republican party. they just want to win the house. all these money sent all this money to donald trump. my mother gives $40 a month to him and he has no money. that is who he is taking advantage of, ignorant people out there. people drinking the kool-aid. it is the same thing with donald trump. he is getting all of your money.

wait until they take social security away. donald trump never served a day in the military. he is just a loser and he does nothing. host: when you question your mom about giving money, what does she say? caller: it is the same fox news talking points because she listens to that and she is in the mountains, they never see any of these people of color up there. they are in their own way and they think this guy is so good and he is awful. he just nothing but give tax breaks to millionaires. i see people whose houses are falling apart who have huge

trump signs in front of their house. if donald trump gets another term in office democracy is gone. he is hurting our country and he is hurting you too whether you like it or not. donald trump could care less, he just wants his next trick. i don't care if he gets locked up or not. host: trump was on the radio show. he vows pardons to capital rioters.

i mean full pardons with an apology to many. it would be contingent on the president running and winning the presidential election. here is president biden from last night discussing views on maga rule on the capital attack. [video clip] >> look at the mop that storm the capital january 6 brutally attacking law enforcement. insurrectionist to put a dagger at the throat of democracy. they see their failure to stop a

peaceful transfer of power after the 2020 election as preparation for the 2022 and 2024 elections. they tried everything last time to nullify the vote of nearly one million people. this time, they are determined to thwart the will of the people. that is why circuit court judges have called donald trump and maga republicans a clear and present danger. i want to say as clearly as we can, we are not powerless in the face of these threats. we are not bystanders in this ongoing threat to democracy. there are far more americans

from every background and belief who reject the extreme maga ideology than those who accept it. and folks, it is within our power and our hands to stop the fall of american democracy. i believe america is at an inflection point. one of those moments that determines the shape of everything that is to come after. and now, america must choose to move forward or to go backwards. to move to the future or obsess about the past. to be a nation of hope and optimists are one of fear and darkness. mager republicans have made their choice. they thrive on chaos, they live

in the shadow of lies, together we can choose a different path. we can choose a better path forward to the future. a future of possibility, a possibility of dreams and hopes and we are on that path moving ahead. host: your reaction to the president's speech last night in independence hall. there is news this morning. the former president responding that he will respond on saturday when he holds a rally in philadelphia as well as 7:00 p.m. eastern right here on c-span. you can find our coverage on the c-span app in on c-span.org. president will be responding then if not before.

the metro section of the washington post, the veteran who assaulted the police gets 10 years. he saw a prison term for nearly 17 years, he was the first ri oter who tried his luck with the jury. the suggested sentence was seven years. let's hear from wally, and new york, a republican. caller: i didn't really listen to it. i vote republican because of the way i believe.

i sure don't believe the way he talks. it just doesn't make any sense to me. host: why are you a republican? caller: you have to make a choice from right and wrong and i go with the right instead of the wrong. i am a believer and the guy worries me. he just worries me. host: pat in irvine, california, and independent. caller: good morning. where can i order a maga hat? i think he just gave trump the

biggest encouragement that we are going to see. i think the speech was nothing but a bunch of cliches and i didn't think it was very good at all and i thought it was very divisive, hurtful and insulting to a very large portion of our population. host: paul a republican in plantation, florida. what'd you think of the speech? caller: it was the most repugnant, insulting and divisive speech ever given by a president of the united states if you can call him that. i watch a lot of politics and i have never seen such an incompetent leadership that is

being used by president biden. i am republican. but i do not support antiabortion, banning abortion nationwide. that is a lie. republicans do not support banning abortion nationwide. so let's just get that straight. the other thing too, one thing people have not realized as a result of democrat organizations, the secret ballot is disappearing. you can't tell me that a harvested ballot, a ballot that was filled out with someone standing over their shoulder and telling them how to do it is a secret ballot. that is a cornerstone of our democracy. how valuable is it?

just asking the rocky, and afghan. they could go into a booth and vote for anyone they wanted to. that is the expression of freedom and the democrats are making that freedom disappear. let's get something straight, who was really damaging democracy? it is the democrats. this country is going down the tubes with this damn party. host: let's go to connecticut with kevin, and independent. caller: the republican party, a lot of voters in these red states, the state secretary can put the votes where he wants to.

that is not freedom buddy. you will have no say when the autocrats come in. social security is next. the republican party is taking people's rights away. the democrats have taken no rights away. host: why are you an independent? caller: years ago i used to go republican. that was in local politics. we are losing our democracy. we are losing it to autocrats. host: what do you do for a living? caller: i just retired, i am electrician. host: were you in a union? caller: yes.

host: brenda from houston. caller: thank you so much for taking my call. i listen to that speech. i think biden speech was excellent and very timely. the florida guy nailed it. he stated that he didn't care if trump was locked up he just wanted him gone. i disagree with that. as a matter of fact, i demand that he is locked up. he has made a mockery of our justice system. i wondered when that maga crowd

cap dark capital if they had been successful in stopping that procedure where would they go from there? did they think the rest of us would sit back and let them take over our country? i don't think so. the maga cult, be careful with what you ask for. be very careful. thank you greta, god bless. host: you can go to our website and find the entire remarks there. the leader of the republican party gave a rebuttal to the speech last night and you can find those remarks on her

website he's been.org as well. more polling from the wall street journal this morning. it says independent voters now tilting towards democrats and the midterm elections. they are entering the home stretch in better shape than earlier this year boosted by gains by independent voters, improved views on joe biden and enthusiastic views from abortion voters. they can keep the debate focused on the economy, nearly two thirds of voters say the economy is not good or poor, and the last survey, the pain of higher cost makes them more likely to cast a ballot.

a lead within the poll's margin of error republicans had a five-point advantage in march there is two months to go. that is a long time before november. we will keep paying attention to the polls as we get closer. more reactions from republicans. here is jim jordan from ohio on fox news. [video clip] >> i think he came across as a sad bitter, old man like darth vader. he has called half the country fascist and extremist. the country wants the real problems addressed. we went from secure borders to know borders we went from stable prices to a 41 your high

inflation rate and we went from two dollar gas to five dollar gas. i think the country wants that address rather than being called extremist and fascist. host: from fox news last night, jim jordan of ohio. now your thoughts, johnny from florida at republican caller. caller: i am in agreement with president biden. maga mentality is ruining this country. donald trump wouldn't even have lunch with maga people. people will follow him because

they have nothing else to do. from florida we have an independent caller. caller: i just wanted to say that was probably the most divisive speech i have ever heard a sitting president give to the nation. i can't believe it, i am shocked. i don't know who was writing his speeches but they need to take a look at that. i am looking at an administration with $4 trillion spent. the whole afghanistan debacle. we have a proxy war with russia. why isn't someone trying to get peace talks going there?

we have $10 billion sent to the most corrupt country, ukraine. we have crime out of control, inflation out of 40 year high. gas is four dollars a gallon. it hurts poor people. and we have a raid on the former president. i have never seen an administration that is more divisive than this administration and i would like to point out, vote for candidates that you like and

give money directly to the candidates that you like. don't give to the rnc or dnc. they want us fighting so we aren't paying attention to what is happening. host: have you given money and who have you given money to? caller: i voted for obama, i donated to his candidacy. i donated to trump. i will go back and forth depending on what they are saying and what they want to do to help this country move forward and not go into splitting everyone down 50-50. host: what about marco rubio? caller: i like the person running against him. val demings. i will not give money to marco

rubio. i am looking for candidates that want to get away from all of the fighting i want someone who can lift us up above that and that we are all americans and this is all our country. host: the wall street journal, gasoline prices are down 24% since june. prices have fallen for 11 consecutive weeks to $3.81 a gallon. prices have lost 24% from a record of five dollars in mid june we will get more economic news today and president biden will be talking about the economy at 11:00 a.m. eastern time today he will be addressing

the latest there. as we said the leader of the republican party kevin mccarthy he is from california he gave the pre-bottle in the president's home town of scranton, pennsylvania before the president talked. he said it was the president who is conducting an assault on the economy. [video clip] host: joe biden is hiring an army of 87,000 new irs agents. more than the population of scranton pennsylvania to snoop around your bank accounts, your small businesses, that is an assault on democracy. joe biden has shielded his family and his administration

from accountability from abuses of power and his son for personal gain that is an assault on our democracy. joe biden and the department of justice launched a raid on the home on his top political rival, that is an assault on democracy. host: republican leader kevin mccarthy. sandra from north carolina, what you think of all of this? caller: i think he is crazy to tell you the truth. for president to tell the republicans that he doesn't give a dang about them. that was the most divisive horrible speech that a president could give.

i am torn between all of it. i am an independent but i'm telling you now that what he did last night has made me think about what the democratic party has done to half of america. if they had given us our audits like the republicans asked for we would've shut up afterwards. but instead they talk to us like they had something to hide. host: what audits? caller: if they would have let every state do a correct audit because of mail and balance it would've been over. but instead, they fought us. everything a republican tried to

do they fought. host: what about the role of the judiciary in all of this the trump campaign took their cases to the court to ask for what you are talking about and many of the republican appointed judges said there was no evidence host: but those judges also hated trout. you have to think about what americans are thinking in that speech last night, he hates everyone that supports donald trump and that shows me that we don't need a leader like that, a party like that. they have not let the republicans do anything so that

to me is controlled by the democrats. i don't like where we are and he was bragging by 24% on the gas. let's take it two dollars where it was when he was in office. host: you said you were an independent and you are torn, what are you torn about? caller: the man says that every body supports trump as a domestic terrorist, that is wrong. you are a president. he calls them maga. he wants to take those irs agents and put them against maga

republicans. this divisive speech that this man made, it has turned me against him and i voted for him. i don't like him anymore. host: you voted for president biden in 2020? who did you vote for an 2016? host: why didn't you vote for president trump again? caller: there was too much going on. i figured it would change. now there is more going on. all of these republicans don't have a chance. the democrats think they are helping american but they really aren't. host: you want to check on the

democrats power? caller: oh yes. host: a little bit more from president biden last night following on what that caller has to say. the president explains on why he is optimistic about the united states but maga republicans are on the wrong path. [video clip] >> i made a bet on you and that bet has paid off. light will guide us forward. not only words but in actions. for you, for your children, for your grandchildren. even in this moment with all the challenges we face, i have never been more optimistic about america's future. not because of me but because of who you are. we will end cancer as we know

it, mark my words. we will create new jobs in the green energy economy. we will make the 21st century another american century. the world needs us to. that is where we need to focus our energy. not in the past, not in divisive culture wars. not on the politics of grievance. the maga republicans believe that for them to succeed everyone else has to fail. they believe in america that is different than my america. i believe america is big enough for everybody. i ran for america because i believe we are in a battle for the soul of america. i still believe that to be true. i believe that the soul is the breath of life of who we are.

the soul is what makes us, us. the soul of america is defined at the sacred proposition that all are created equal and are entitled to be treated with dignity and respect. democracy must be defended for democracy makes all these things possible. host: president biden in pennsylvania yesterday. with two months to go to the midterm election and he will be on the campaign trail on monday and pennsylvania and he will be in wisconsin as well as he starts touring the country campaigning for democrats. in brookshire, texas, a republican. caller: good morning greta. host: let's hear your reaction

to that speech last night. caller: i agree, biden is destroying the democratic party to me. the entire democratic party is a cartel. the entire democratic party are the pushers killing america. everything he was speaking about last night they were really talking about the democratic party. murder, all over. rage all over. that is what he is fighting for.

they are running this nation like china, russia. that is what they are fighting for. to tell you where to go, how to spend your money where to go to the bathroom everywhere else. i am praying for this nation. host: have you always been a republican? caller: no, i have not. when i was 18 years old, i had to show my id to who i was to prove that i was registered. now, you don't have to have id. you need id for everything. they don't want you to have an id so you can cheat.

they say they didn't cheat and 2020, yes they did. host: individuality is why you are a republican? caller: yes, i do. and i believe in god. host: andrew and josephine, texas. democratic caller. caller: good morning, how are you? host: your reaction to the speech? caller: his point about the maga republicans is right on point. he touches on the state of anger. it doesn't matter what the subject is, there is always something to be upset about, something to be angry about.

he said he could shoot someone on the street and they will continue to support me. it turned out to be a true statement. they will put their party before their country. it doesn't matter about the truth, it doesn't matter about facts. host: from michigan, can, a democratic caller. caller: there were three big things. he said there is no room in politics for violence. i was following when chuck schumer called for violence against the supreme court

members. president biden did not call out our own members for violence. the second thing that really hurt me, he wasn't pulling to unite us. he said i believe 10 times about pulling us together and he spent the second half of the speech saying we are not united. instead of saying, let's try to find common ground so we can bring ourselves together. that was the kind of leadership message i was looking for. he made comments that tore down other pieces of our government. i really care about the supreme court.

every state has their right to do what they want to do. we can't kill our own institution and then come back and say all of our institutions are great. i think we can be great. host: aaron from silver springs, maryland. a democratic caller. caller: that last caller hit some important points. i contrast this speech with another speech that he gave. he gave a unity speech shortly after he was elected and that was a really good speech. this speech felt like the polar opposite of that. he never really defines what a maga republican really is. it felt like he was putting up

this bogeyman and i try to conflate maga republicans with the january 6 insurrectionist in a way that unfairly smears people that don't deserve to be smeared. if he is the president of all americans that would include maga republicans however you want to define them. it felt very dark. i felt that the stagecraft was very bad. there were marine corps people behind him. it was reported that this would not be a partisan speech, but it was clearly designed for the midterm elections.

the more president biden can turn the conversation on president trump it's better for the democrats. and that may be the design. he is a savvy politician and that's probably the goal. i hope that biden can get back to where he was at that initial speech at the lincoln memorial. i am hoping for a swing to meet people where they are. clinton was able to do that after the 1994 elections. i have a lot of hope for president biden. but this speech was really too dark and i think unfair to some americans. he never

host: you think a so-called maga republican would vote for a democrat this november? caller: i don't know i can what is a maga republican? is it someone who supports president trump? is it those people? is it people who are more sort of, not so intensely involved in politics but vote republican consistently? the short answer is, is it a hard-core supporter of president no matter what? no, they are not going to vote for president writing. that's politics, i get that. they are his opponent.

and he is trying to win the midterms. this speech was designed for that. i am worried that a blowback from this speech will be so bad that it is fanning the flames of division even more than they already are, which is hard to believe. that president trump comes on on saturday and drops another nuclear bomb that will make it even worse. i feel like we are in a feedback loop. we need to pull back. the one thing i think president biden needs to do is after the midterms he needs to revamp his staff. they are not advising him well on a lot of issues as far as trying to appeal to the middle of the country. hopefully they will be able to do like president clinton did and moderate a bit.

host: all right. i'm going to leave it there. we are going to take a short break but we will pick up this conversation again. joining us will be to historians to give us their take on last night's speech we will be talking with allida black and sean wilentz. they will be joining us next. later we will turn our attention to the state that the u.s. housing market. ♪ >> on saturday former president trump also rally. watch live coverage beginning at 7:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. also on our free mobile video app, c-span now. >> senators testified about the

continued rise of overdose deaths linked to fentanyl. raising awareness about how boyd's, -- opioids, and mental health. watch tonight starting at 7 p.m. eastern and on our free mobile app c-span now or on c-span.org. ♪ in 2019 been raines discovered the remains of the slave ship outside alabama. as we showcase some of the best q&a mr. raines talks about his book which details the history of the slave ship and why it transported slaves to alabama in 1860 more than 50 years after the transatlantic slave trade was outlawed. >> it serves as sort of a proxy

for everyone in the united states and in the world whose families arrived in whatever country they are in. most of those people, millions upon millions we know nothing about because their stories are not recorded. so it is a proxy for this stolen history. that is really what is so unique about it. it is the whole story of slavery all encapsulated in one piece and we know about these people and what happens in their lives. >> then ra --ben raines. you can listen to q&a on our podcasts on our c-span now app. ♪ >> middle and high school students, it is your time to

shine, you are invited to participate in the student camera documentary competition. in light of the upcoming midterm election feature yourself as a newly elected member of congress and we ask what is your top priorities and why. make a five to six minute video that shows the importance of your issues from opposing and supporting perspectives. do not be afraid to take risks. be bold. among the $100,000 in cash prizes is a $500,000 grand prize. yost must be submitted by january 23, 2023. visit studentcam.org for tools, kits and to sign up. >> "washington journal" continues. host: to professors of history joining us this morning. alito black and sean wilentz. thank you both for being here i want to show our viewers a headline from the washington

post. historians privately worn president biden that america's democracy is teetering. the two of you were at that meeting with the president. i want to know, do you share the sentiment of the headline that democracy is teetering? i know you can't talk about the meeting with the president or what you told him but i am wondering your personal perspective. professor blackwell don't you go first? >> good morning, everybody. i believe american democracy is at a very critical point. we can either go to a refocus totally on our selves. or we can think about how to work together in of the governed by fear and disrespect for the rule of law. so i agree completely that we are really at a critical moment.

i realize it might be an academic term but i want viewers to think about a river flowing through the countryside and all of a sudden it puts a folder in the powder makes a change direction. that is where we are right now. we have to figure out how to fix this or we are really going to fall apart. host: professor wilentz? >> i agree with allida. one party decided power is more important than anything else. that is really what i think the president was talking about last night. you can't love your country and think you should win all the time. not by the followers, so much as the people who are doing it particularly the former president.

this is outside of the norms this goes against the entire spirit and substance of american democracy. so, yes, i think we are in big trouble. host: professor black what is your evidence of this? >> let's look back at the violence first of all. we are attacking school board numbers to local officials who are members of the united states congress. one of the things i believe, if you go to the united states capital, american democracy was on the line. of control citizens and some supportive law enforcement officers used cattle prods, and

tried to limit democracy to people who were white. it is the same out-of-control rage that attacked the capitol we have all been angry at our government. we have all been angry when things to go our way but that does not mean that we take a baseball bat to our critics or that we say the rule of law has no place in america. what i am seeing right now this anger with permission to really target people who disagree with you but also people who are trying to provide like school

boards and election staff and government. host: professor wilentz what is your reaction to this headline? it is from the hell newspaper and they are reporting the majority on both parties say democracy is in danger of collapse. >> they do for different reasons. i think the people the president refer to last night as maga republicans have a few that do mac -- democrats just want to take away liberties. that is probably what is driving the republicans and on the others people much like my friend allida the said see the attack on the capitol as proof that the democracy isin peril.

it's not just the people doing the attacking it is those who can look upon the attack and look upon people who said they want to hang the vice president, hang mike pence and call them patriots. that's were i think american democracy is also troubled. it's not just the people doing the violence but the people who look upon it with approval. they are the kind of -- this is not the kind of thing americans due to each other. that has to be said clearly. we are at a divide now that is very severe. i think it is being driven more from the maga side than from the democrats. host: banner, headliner divider in chief? biden labels a threat to the

democracy. they say it is evidence of president biden's failure to unite. professor black? >> i think that's an awful example of taking one paragraph of the speech. i mean, mi critical of people who denounce the rule of law? absolutely but if you read the whole speech, the speech is a plea to americans to step up. you can't take it for granted. are there people that are threats to democracy? absolutely. are all republicans a threat to democracy? no. no way. but the criticism i think the president is from those who want

to tear down and beat up and not built up. i think is a necessary speech. i would like to remind viewers he is not the only as i'm sure trump will explain [indiscernible] help their critics up for ridicule. john kennedy, lyndon johnson, richard nixon, gerald ford, bill clinton, ronald reagan, all of them held their critics accountable in very public address. i think the american people

sometimes disagree. >> think that's the case for the people who want to divide the country call you the divider. like us back to abraham lincoln. he was appealing to the bettering jewels of our nation to try to bring the country together. people called him a divider. they felt he was the one who was calling them out and wanting to secede from the union for example. all of the presidents she named did exactly the same thing. it was a president kennedy speech talking about extremists and the poison of extremism. you know, they called him a divider too. that is normal if you want to stand up for the country the people trying to rip the country down will call you a divider. i think that is part of what the speech was about us like that very much the spirit of unity.

there is this minority among us that is trying to turn us against each other, we have to hold together, pull together and say no to that. that is really the spirit i think the speech was written last night. i think the criticism, is the pot calling the kettle black kind of thing. host: let's get to calls. caller: good morning to the people, the guests. my observation in the 1960's there was far more turmoil in the country. there were racial riots and assassinations. but what held the country together was the leadership and governance of the people. the congress was not fighting against each other in matters of truth. when i see leadership today

justice kevin mccarthy followed up he said the irs is coming after you, the business owners. they are coming after tax cheaters. we need that revenue to run the country. lindsey graham said there will be riots on the streets if you arrest my friend. if he's a criminal, it doesn't matter, he is my friend. democracy, it may be tested in 2024 but i think if something happens to trump where he is prosecuted i think we would have a civil war because these people are urging a civil war. they are urging the citizens to fight, they are armed. that is why biden mentioned how do you find a country, the most powerful country with machine guns? my question to the guests is are

we closer to democracy following or a civil war? host: professor wilentz, you go first place >> i don't think there will be a civil war but i think it will be dangerous. representative maccarthy because after the irs. or when people go after the fbi. these are attacks on fundamental institutions of american government and democracy. that is what makes this different. it is not just the violent. but it calls into question not just policies, not just people, but but fundamental institutions. they are bad, they are out to get you. when people say institutions are out to get you, that is very dangerous. it creeps closer to the verge of something that is really vague --. dangerous. i don't think there's going to

be a civil war but i do think there is going to be an election and we will see what happens with that. i actually think that the good sense of the american people will prevail as it has in the past but i think the danger is when you are attacking not just, you can't love the government into tech at the same time. host: professor black? >> i agree. i don't think we are facing a violent revolution. the caution is, however, not to keep promoting that we are thinking if i that revolution is possible. i think a lot of americans are tired of using terms that galvanize people's attention. that keeps up hard work

necessary to bring the country together. i agree with everythingsean said that the role of institutions but i want to add two points to that. first of all, since we got rid of the four doctrine in media and by media i mean the fourth branch of government, now is for profit. that means people are eclipsing what brings our profits into the ledger. and getting the people the information they need to try to ratchet down grievances that seem to dominate the political

discussion right now. i think the president's speech was good. it may not have been staged in a way that is perfect for all americans but the message is is that we cannot [indiscernible] we must be governed by hope and the courage that it takes. the more we talk about civil war [indiscernible] at mission. host: let's hear from linda in new york. caller: good morning. i want to make a comment about your guests. i am sure they are wonderful people but i don't think they are fair-minded people. why are they singling out maga

when you have schumer on the steps that there will be hell to pay for kavanaugh and there will be held to pay about that. what about all the black lives matter two years ago? i can't remember the other word but they were knocking down cities, burning police stations, doing all that. that's not how you react either when you don't like something. so the january 6 episode that happens, it was only retaliation for the years trump was persecuted every day. they stuck up for their president and do something about it and it wasn't as bad as they make it out. the only person that died was that poor ashli babbitt and nothing happened to her. i don't think these people are fair-minded at all. host: i will have the perspective -- professors respond. >> think you for your candid

questions. i disagree with you there were police officers who died during the january 6 attack. not every black lives matter protest involved the destruction of property and i think the president was quite clear last night he condemned violence on both sides. do we get carried away with the rhetoric sometimes? yes, we do. but i think with the president said last night was that we have to get past that. we have to get past saying there are going to be civil war does or riots any the streets if we don't figure out how to least understand what is at stake we

will perpetuate where all we do is scream at each other. the comments about maga republicans i think the president was extremely clear at least three times in his remarks to say that he is not in republicans and that bunch. what he is saying is a fundamental principle of american government is that the people vote. you have to accept that whether you win or lose. there were 60, six-zero court

cases divided -- decided by judges who said that there was no run in the election. host: professorwlienta how does this compare to the calling the out the critics? >> it's an excellent point. there has been violence on both sides. some happened in 2020. personally, i was disgusted. but i think the president was pretty clear he didn't call out violence from one side and not the other side. he called out the violence on both. it is not a political process, it is not part of us as americans to be attacking one another in that way.

i think that is basically with the speech was all about. he was signaling out a particular group of people who are not something violent but were attacking the country itself. you know? attacking the fbi? attacking the irs, whatever. this is a different category that is what he was signaling out. the presidents have done this as allida said earlier. the speech from 1961 after come up with these strange -- strange declinations for things that make sense but are very simple. they can get you very angry and they want you to get angry at it. president kennedy said that in a speech. you can find it on youtube.

host:nikki, rockaway park new york. caller: thank you, i have historians here. historians know about how fascism rules in europe. and they know, you know how propaganda, the media as he pointed out,allida the media has a great part in determining what people will believe and not believe. the media is very important to understand how democracy could be affected. 2016 election was won, very cheaply. but the propaganda, elected

someone who is the most without the popular vote and again in 2020 and people are crying for fairness. they attacked the fbi. i cried on january 6 at don't know if you did, i cried. when i saw the attack that was done on the party of law and order, the party of law and order attacks the police and then they describe it as a peaceful protest. legitimate political intercourse and now they preach violence against the fbi for doing what they are supposed to do. i would like you to compare today's magas with europe's nazis, thank you. >> i don't think, i think there

are some similarities that the first thing i want to say very clear is that not all maga republicans i am concerned about the ones who do. propaganda works when people are afraid, when they are vulnerable , when they transfer and identify with the cancer of someone the personality of someone rather than what they stand for. and that can be perilous. another parallel is to blame for the difficulties you have in

your own life. and to say that if in fact we can have a return to a certain system or people it is defined by people who agree with me. voluntarily power to a major-league or who will then circle back by saying i am the people therefore i can make decisions, i can speak for the people, i will seek the path for support to govern. then we could be going down that path. but i do not air donald trump

with adolf hitler. i think there are similar personality traits but i think if we get into, you know, equating trump with hitler's immediately we lose, we cap are cut what we are trying to do which is bring people, to calm people down so that we can have a conversation to try to figure out to ratchet down the violence and help the government. so while we are on that, i want to stop that first. host: let's talk to andrew in white plains new york. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. i guess my question for professor black is what kind of message did president biden's

speech provide last night? i didn't watch the speech, i'm sorry to say. i will have to catch up on that later today but what seems to be clear is that the republicans are using this to attack biden for being anti-unity and being divisive. and that the imagery and i do emphasize imagery of the speech seems to verify that. i'd like to get a response from both of your guests. host: professor wilentz do you want to go first? >> the imagery, yeah. i don't know. he was trying to appeal to the liberty bell workout started. i can't comment about all that terribly well. i don't think it was a division speech it was a clarifying language to think is important.

in doing so, again, president biden was not saying that the maga republicans are that donald trump is hit or. there is a very high standard for people we are not there. but i think the president was saying there are close similarities in very specific aspects. i think he said this directly, when you have blind loyalty to a rate leader who can do no wrong who literally can shoot someone on 5th avenue with support anyway. that is extremely dangerous. that is a commonality between that. that is really vague -- very dangerous. a man who can come in and create chaos and try to clean up the chaos by saying i only wanted to clean up the chaos. that is quite similar.

i commend the viewer to go and look at the speech itself and you will see for yourself what was going on there. i think he does a pretty good job of making it very clear. in fact, he went out of his way to make it clear he was not trying to divide he was trying to point out the danger and night the rest of the country. host: professor plucked the president did give this speech two months before an election at the white house but primetime address and some are critical or having marines behind him. >> i am happy you want to address that but i want to insert if i may 1, interest question. enter, cheerleaders with look at the speech. it is 16 pages. there is half of one page, that

talks about maga republicans. that is where they picked up the talking point of the media and republicans who support. i think the speech was a call to america to realize the dangers of extremism. not all republicans or democrats are extreme. we have to get our act together. that means we have to respect the rule of law. we have to respect the values of the nation instead of our own personal grievances. and to all people, i understand

that democracy is not guaranteed . it requires constant vigilance. constant engagement in a way that not only deals with the person's individual views but views of the nation. now to, i'm sorry can you -- host: the imagery. >> that's their job. ronald reagan and george w. bush, i don't object to that. i think it was a choice.

i would have just set the president addressed the people. i think itg was autsy speech to give. he said last week the first week of school the vast majority of a americans attention is elsewhere, he was so compelled about the threat that he decided to do it anyway. by definition, the speech is a preventable speech. i think the timing of it led to

the current criticism that it is a political speech but the timing of the speech also speaks to the urgency that the president felt to address this threat to america. host: for anyone who missed the speech you can watch it in its entirety on c-span.org and if you click on the video you will see points of interest. if you don't have time to watch the entire thing as professor black was just talking about, watch it in in its entirety. it is 16 pages. ames, virginia. caller: good morning, greta. i'm listening to these two historians. one president trump was elected you had pendants and unelected

officials talking about impeaching him when he took oath of office. you had our director saying he sent fbi agents to the white house knowing they were in disarray when fbi agents change great coming we are talking that -- about january the sixth when we are talking about we had a coup not once not twice when he was on the phone with the leader of taiwan we just had pelosi going to taiwan and she is looking like a hero? do these people think, we look at the news, i mean you're making -- maxine waters.

we had burning cities and they were saying it's a peaceful protest. host: wi professorlentz what you take this one? >> the intelligence committee made clear that there was interference there was something that was going on that had to be looked at. it wasn't people going against trump. it was making sure the election was being properly conducted. number two a lot of what you are saying makes sense to me i get it. i don't like to see protests turn into violence. that is exactly what the president was saying. i don't like any of that. we have to try to come together and the people who continue to inflame by talking about rights in the streets this is not good. this is what president biden was

trying to have us stop. we may disagree, i disagree with a lot of the things you just said that that is not the point. the point is are we going to have our disagreements in a way that america is supposed to have disagreements or are we going to turn violence? turn the other person into a traitor? that is the kind of extremism that i think we have to get rid of and that is the kind of extremism that is coming forward these days. host: grand prairie, texas. caller: morning, thank you for taking my call and i certainly appreciate the professors. i have a comment, the last caller is just amazing to me that so many republicans, not all. so many of the republicans, they have this anger almost a

conspiratorial mentality about the election. i voted for the bushes and for reagan. but i accepted the elections. as bad as i did not want somebody especially not donald trump to take office he was unqualified, unfit, and it's clear taking documents that didn't belong to him to mar-a-lago and inciting an insurrection. i wish a lot of -- all things republicans in denial is baffling to me. right is right and wrong is wrong. if that have been barack obama doing the same thing, taking documents inciting an insurrection i feel it would be a separate event.

the extent that people will follow this man i think most people will now in the heart of hearts that he is not a good individual. he is immoral and has caused this country a lot of hate. i had never had to worry about my wife who is asian going out in public with the mask. they are talking about asia is bringing covid. but talking about asia bringing covid to the country i hope each of us whether it be democrat, independent, or republican do the right thing for the country. thank you for taking my call. host: professor black, you take this one. >> i want to think the caller. i starkly did not claim -- said

president trump was my president. do i believe that he was right to be elected? i think he won the electoral vote but the senate judiciary make committee put a report talking about interference in social media targeting american voters that is not the same thing as saying that the votes were not counted. i want to make that distinction. we are just on trying to figure out how we cannot but don't

language. i serve on bipartisan boards and work very closely with republican political. we disagree on what we think the country should do. that there is a commitment that can make america better. i think that's what he was asking us to do last night. he wants to say to republicans and democrats [indiscernible]

it's time to grow up, put your big people pants on and go out there and try to figure out how we can solve the problem. our country, we have had violence before. the sad thing here about the united states john adams said we should -- which is the most heinous act other than slavery in the history of the united states. it is stuff that should be criticized. you are not arrested for a

felony. we got through the horrific, bloody civil war. over 15 feet away from each other and shot each other. we got through rampant industrialization. we think about how to deal with rampant discrimination. we figured out how to do with the fear of the great depression.

they were one paycheck away from losing their roof, business, farms. we had to buckle up exceed 3% of americans, two thirds of americans we knew we had to fight who stood up to communism. we had a separate revolution, the second american revolution in the streets of boston. we go forward. we go forward and we go backwards but we keep our eyes on the prize. let's say last night, maga is

not the division that moves us forward. it is the division that takes us back. that does not mean that everything that trump is was wrong. what it meant was the rule of law is here for a reason. democracy is based on the vote. america is not governed i got biden we covered biden. we have to figure out, all of us republicans, democrats, green party, workers party. we embrace. we have a responsibility to our country which is to build it and not terry down. host: professor wilentz i want

to give you temper final thoughts here. >> i wish i could say anything as well as professor black could say things but i will do my best. i think going back to the timing is the early years of the country. alexander hamilton said in a federalist statement only on it was founded in nation apart to come up with an experiment democracy in which politics would not be rolled by brute force. that had been the case with monarchies in editor aristocracies going back to classical times. brute force was always the way things were finally settled. trying to establish a new late nation that would be the guiding force. it would be the force of elections, popular sovereignty.

it would be peaceful day to have our differences ironed out. to fight in a way that is peaceful because it is certain principles. we haven't always been, there has always been an enormous fight. but the real progress has been made by discipline but nevertheless democratic fights, arguments, at the center. when i see the center i don't mean that that center. but around that center there are always extremes. we have to avoid trying to go to those extremes. in the 1940's there was extreme of fascism and communism. that is where most americans were and we were dedicated to the idea that no matter what our differences are they will not be settled by perforce. they will not be settled by threat they will not be settled

by going against the constitution or not heating the constitution. that is what i think we are trying to get back to our art appealing to. to give an example, this cheney and i would disagree about 99% of policy issues but we agree about the essential issue which is that we the constitution it has to come -- become our guiding force here. i think in that sense i think we are trying to get back to establish the kindest mesh guide. not a wishy-washy center, a center of intention but not in the idea that forced communists to roll our destiny. i think that is the essential problem we are facing today there seems to be a threat that is being endangered yet once again. it has been repeatedly any

american history. we have to rise to that occasion. i think that is what president biden is trying to appeal to last night. you both for the conversation this morning. we appreciate it. >> thank you so much. >> take care. bye,sean host: coming up at 9:15 we will turn our attention to the state of the housing market. after this break we to openforum. any public policy issue there are the numbers in your screen. ♪ >> welcome to the national book festival. >> over the past 21 years, in the partnership with the library of congress, booktv has provided uninterrupted coverage of the

national book festival featuring hundreds of nonfiction authors and guests. on saturday, booktv returns to the library of congress national book festival. all day long, you will hear from and interact with guests and authors such as library of congress carla hayden. david marron, clayton smith, and more. the library of congress national book festival live saturday beginning at 9:30 a.m. eastern on c-span2. >> the center returns from its summer recess. to the seventh circuit court. if confirmed justice we would be the first asian-american to serve on the court. watch on c-span.org or on our

free c-span now video out. not available in the ccn shot. the 2022 directory. every c-span shop purchase helps support c-span's not profit or break -- operations. c-span now is a free mobile app i've streams of four proceedings of hearings from the u.s. congress. white house events, the courts campaigns and more from the world of politics. all at your fingertips.

it will help you stay up-to-date with what episodes of "washington journal". c-span radio, from the variety is available now at the apple store and google play. c-span now your front receipt to washington anytime, anywhere, >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back to "washington journal". the latest job numbers are out from august. 3.7% unemployment rate and 315,000 jobs added. this is the story on the news. the u.s. added 350,000 jobs. the job rate growth 27%.

on tuesday, the labor part department said there were 2 million jobs open. it exceeds pre-pandemic levels. other indicators, the economy slowing under the rate of high inflation. car price increases both the first and second quarters of the year try to catch up with demand . rehiring has boost -- hope to boost payroll. so from the wall street journal newspapers have a couple headlines to share with you.

gasoline prices down 24%. next to that there is another headlight -- headline mortgage rate increase to 5.6%. we are going to talk to a housing real estate market about where things stand with the housing industry. that part of our economy. james, massachusetts. people start with you first. go ahead. >> i was hoping to get on with the two historians you just had on. i would like to give a little history if i could. vietnam, one people came home it wasn't the gop that was fitting on them and calling them baby killers. it was democrats. it wasn't the gop taking over

administration buildings and colleges. it wasn't the gop with the liberation army. and it wasn't the gop letting money underground for biomed. it wasn't republicans rioting in lafayette park. there was a picture of angela davis which apparently wasn't as important as a docking the capital. it wasn't just the republicans denying the election. hillary clinton wrote eight books. obama took his candidacy --

host: you are calling on the democratic line. caller: i am a democrat. can you have the democrats tell the truth once in a while? you have everything going. i'm not in favor of donald trump. host: we are listening. caller: i'm going to tell you i am a democrat i have been my whole life i will fight the insi have to. they are a bunch of communists. if you want to call mega people republicans mega people, you should be calling democrats, you people -- commy people? host: what's your point? caller: pete buttigieg's father was the grandfather of the

biggest communist society in america. how about kamala harris's father? the only professor in america that is teaching the success of the communist economics. come on. people have got to start telling the truth, tell everybody what is going on. host: i have to give other people time as well. robert in virginia, independent. caller: good morning, greta. you look very nice, as always. i listen to the program this morning and it makes me wonder how many people call in and say the democrats are really on and vice versa. the main thing, i am an independent and i voted bang on both sides, and right now i would vote for good conservative that does not lie, maybe that is impossible nowadays, i don't know. i do know one thing, donald trump needs to be held

accountable for any laws he broke. above everything else that is going to come up, the country needs to know that justice is for everybody, not just the poor and medium and whatever. that is my concern, that he gets what's coming to him. if he did not, he to -- if he did it, he ought to pay for it. i hope there are other people that feel that way and they haven't been brainwashed to the point where they cannot sit down and think about things. host: what do you think of the former president saying yesterday on a radio program that if he wins in 2024, he will pardon and give an apology to capital writers -- rioters? caller: he's spending millions of dollars to pay people to support him. if you notice every time he has a public hearing or something to see, there is a group of people behind him, busting him around to make him look good. these people are in jail because of him. they listened to him, for the

money he paid them or because they were brainwashed. that is how i see it. at any rate, look, i appreciate the time. host: from this article in the washington post, they quote the president saying in the radio interview, "i'm financially supporting people that are incredible, and they were in my office two days ago, so there very much of my mind," trump said. "it is a disgrace what they have done to them, what they've done to these people is disgraceful." john in california, we are in open form, a republican. go ahead. caller: hi, greta. good to talk to you. this last segment with these two professors was probably the most unfair bias thing i've seen maybe on all of television but certainly on all of c-span. the lady mentioned the fact we were -- the so-called not to use

or onto the school boards. the parents in that one district in virginia did not like the curriculum their kids were being taught, and the national association of school boards wrote a letter to the fbi, wrote a letter to the justice department to silence these people. the fbi went to the head of facebook to silence the hunter biden laptop. we could go all the way back to the vietnam war days where the fbi framed demonstrators and protesters. now the thing has turned around to where now the people that were against the fbi in the 60's are now supporting the fbi in 2020 because they support the radical left-wing politics.

the speech of the president's yesterday was a total disaster. it is all about saving the midterms for the radical left-wing democrats that are running. it has nothing to do with really with january 6. it has to do with keeping the left-wing loons in power. this lady -- i don't remember, was she from the university of virginia? host: yes. caller: she goes off on a five minute tirade about how long the concern of the people were about defeating germany and that was crazy. it is crazy. the other thing i took exception to was the princeton professor said he did not remember anything about the clinton campaign enticing the fbi to tap the phones of donald trump. while he was a candidate.

it is factual, it happened. they did it. this raid on his home in florida has never been done. hillary had walked, 40,000 emails that she destroy that were under subpoena? nobody came crashing at her door with their guns drawn. we have got a two-tiered justice system. host: what about the classified documents? do you have concerns about that? caller: yes, i do. i also have a concern about the documents that obama took out of the white house when he left. it is not all one-sided. i have a problem with that. i do not know for sure how they got there, i know good and well donald trump did not spread them on the floor so the fbi could take a picture of them. host: the fbi said they did. that is standard operating procedure. caller: to spread all of the documents out under subpoena on

the floor, take a picture of them, and release it to the press? that is standard operating procedure? i would disagree with that but i do not think that is the way standard operation procedure is supposed to be. they leak it to the press. host: it was part of the documents the judge said the government needed to release, and they put that picture in their. -- in there. caller: left-wing judge obama appointed. do you deny there is a two-tiered justice system and the media is armed with the democratic party? i'm sure you do but you are not looking at the big picture. host: not denying or saying otherwise, john. i was asking you a question about that. i do want to share with you and others, this is another wall street journal -- more detailed list of papers the fbi recovered will be made public.

so there is more coming. a federal judge says she would make -- this is a different judge -- would make a more detailed list of items the fbi took during its search last month of former president trump 's mar-a-lago home, opening the prospects of a fuller picture of what documents might be among the classified material seized. possibly more to come. the former president will be holding a rally this saturday in pennsylvania for dr. oz, the candidate there. we will have coverage here on c-span, on our -- this channel you are watching now, and our video mobile app, c-span now, or online on demand at c-span.org. today, president biden will be talking about the economy. in a couple hours he will respond to the numbers we showed you. that is here on c-span, on the video app, and on [indiscernible] .

robert, independent, -- and on c-span.org. robert, independent, hello. caller: trump will lie on his way to coup number two. he is offering pardons if he got elected again. he is already offered pardons to those in coup. he has been a liar all his life and it is hard to believe there are two people in the republican party that are willing to stand up with him because donald trump wouldn't exist if the republicans didn't back him. host: allen, an independent. what is on your mind this morning? caller: being from arkansas, we always like to ask what someone means when they say party. this is my second of four calls, four months running, got two more to go before the election. promised to call in.

and ask president trump directly, please accept the speaker ship of the house after the landslide election that is coming in november. he can accept the speakership, then be elevated again to the presidency as we expose this corruption. let me make a couple quick points about mr. biden. i'll tell you, honestly -- and i have academic credentials. you want to compare academic or dental's, unlike those two democrat -- academic credentials, unlike those two democrats you had on. i have heavy academic credentials as well and i don't go around saying things that are not accurate. i will tell you, the corruption of mr. biden -- someone that would literally sell his son --

use his son to cover all of his corruption that we all know is coming, and the fbi has covered it up and all of these other folks are covering that up. they want to prevent trump from being elected because it will allow him to expose this national corruption. we need to clean it up, this desperate thing that happened with biden last night was a stunning, corrupt expression. president trump, speaker of the house in three months. host: debra in pennsylvania, democratic caller. are you there? good morning. caller: yes i am, good morning. thank you for taking my call. as far as all of this goes, a country divided cannot stand. i do not know when our country is going to come together, but

all that we are fighting for now is democracy. democracy is going to meet everything. those siding with the democrats or republicans, believe me, it is not going to work. it will not work until we all come together and support what is good for all of the people. not just one group or one party or one transgender or black or white or hispanic. it will count for everyone. so country, let's come together and do what is best for all of us. a country divided will not stand and we are headed that way now. host: nicholas, pennsylvania, democratic caller. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i'm just sick and tired of hearing these snowflake republicans, constantly comparing january 6 to black lives matter and what they did in the cities which was wrong. those people who burned

buildings or stores were arrested and they were charged, criminally. the same thing should go for the people on january 6. they want to keep comparing these two incidents. what is wrong is wrong, they broke the law. the other thing i wanted to talk about was the hillary clinton emails. this was electronic he mows on her private server. she was investigated multiple times for this issue. donald trump removed the documents from the white house, took them to mar-a-lago, a golf course hotel he is staying at, which he is not supposed to be at anyway, and left them there. they are not his. they tried to retrieve these documents from him, they negotiated with him, sent him a subpoena, and he still had documents. even his own lawyer signed the document stating there were no more documents there and when they sent the investigators in to search the place, they found more documents. this man is nothing but a liar.

they did a story when donald trump -- with donald trump in the 1980's when he owned a hotel in atlantic city. the ceos the lenten the money for the casinos said this man has no concept of no financing. he is illiterate. the only way he has made his famous from a tv show and he has been very lucky, he received an inheritance of $200 million from his father when he died. this guy is a loser and people who keep following him, i do not understand is republicans. every republican friend of mine i have is constantly gab gab gab. they never have facts. they listen to these right wing nut shows whether it is rush limbaugh, hannity, and they don't follow with any facts. host: rick in silver spring, maryland, democratic caller. caller: hey, greta, this is

rick. thank you for taking my call. host: good morning. caller: when recent colors just said that hunter biden did something that -- callers just said that hunter biden did something that he has no recourse for. this is the thing that the republicans do, they call out these issues without evidence. it is unbelievable to me. this is supposed to be the party of moral leadership and values and they do not have evidence. they talk about the gas prices and how low they were when trump was in power, these are the folks that say supply and demand. the market will tell you what happened. we were in a two-year pandemic. no one was driving. this supply -- nobody wanted to buy gas, so supply was high in

demand was low. people should be shouting out biden for bringing down gas prices and a time where everybody is back driving again. this guy is doing a showman's work when it comes to gas prices in the economy. lastly, when is the last time a president or anyone who ran for office said i could shoot somebody on fifth avenue -- i could shoot somebody and people will still stand behind him? i should tell you everything about the republican party. if they are willing to stand by somebody who could commit murder on a public street and they're willing to stand behind him, that tells you all about the souls of that party. have a great day. host: we will take a break and when we come back, we will get an update on the u.s. housing market with christopher mayer a real estate professor at columbia business school. stick with us.

>> on saturday, former president trump holds a rally in support of pennsylvania's republican senate nominee, dr. min oz. watch live coverage beginning at 7:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. also on our free mobile video app, c-span now. nasa is set to launch the artemis one mission, any un-crude space site -- a spaceflight. watch 1:00 p.m. eastern on c-span or c-span now, our free mobile video app. ♪ >> live sunday on in-depth, uc berkeley governmental studies scholar steven hayward will be our guest to talk about leadership, ronald reagan's political career, and the american conservative movement. he's the author of several books including two volumes of the age of reagan series, greatness and

patriotism is not enough, but the scholars who changed course of conservative politics in america. join in the conversation with your phone calls, facebook, comments, texts, and tweets. in-depth with stephen hayward, live at sunday on book tv on c-span two. ♪ >> in 2019, reporter ben reins discovered the remains of a ship outside of alabama. a sunday night, as we showcase some of the best of q&a, he talks about his book, the last slave ship, which details the history of the ship and how and why it transported 110 slaves to alabama in 1860, more than 50 years after the transatlantic slave trade was outlawed. >> we have the whole story. it serves as a proxy for everyone in the united states,

really in the world, whose families arrived in whatever country they are in in the hull of a ship. most of the people, millions upon millions, we know nothing about, because their stories were not reported. so this is a proxy for the lost history, for the millions of people stolen from africa and spread over the world. that is really what is so unique about it, it is the whole story of slavery encapsulated in one piece, and we know everything about these people and what happened to them in their lives. >> ben reins, sending 8:00 p.m. eastern on q&a. you can listen to q&a and all of the podcasts on our c-span now app. >> "washington journal" continues. host: professor christopher mayer is joining us now, at columbia business school, professor for real estate. professor, let's start with what kind of market are we in for

housing? buyers market, sellers market, which one, or is it both? guest: actually it is neither. [laughter] i think now is a very upside to be in the housing market either the buyer or the seller. turning points in housing are tough because sellers are typically setting their expectations on what they have seen them protecting them forward. buyers are stuck in a sense of what sellers want for their home and the problem is affordability has collapsed for new homebuyers. if you look at the mortgage cost of buying a home, it is up 30% to 40% over what it was at the beginning of the year. that means buyers are looking at paying a price and saying this will be tough. at the same time, sellers look at what they thought they could sell their house for a couple of months ago, they may be listening to what a few brokers who came in the home said for their hopes and dreams. the problem is you end up with

this disconnect between buyers and sellers. i think this is a tough market for both sides right now. host: wall street journal headline, mortgage rates increase to 5.66%. guest: yep. we are close to the level where they were a couple of months ago but, before that, you've got to go back to 2009 was the last time mortgage rates where this high, so it is a shock to the system for sure. host: what is happening with home sales? what are people seeing? are we heading toward or are we already in a housing recession? guest: so housing recession and home sales are different. housing recession does not -- like a regular recession, does not have this well-defined term. home sales will drop a lot. you have a big disconnect between what buyers want to pay and sellers think their home is worth. when you have that disconnect, you see transactions fall

through the floor. the inventory of new homes for sale, the number of buyers who cut their asking price is up a lot. new home sales will fall quite a bit. goldman sachs put out a part of couple of days ago saying prediction, we know how psychology and economics affect the housing market. this is not the first time we have seen this happen and you see a turning point, and this one has been sharp, you see big spikes in things on the market and disconnect between buyers and sellers. home sales will fall a lot. initially, i think we will see a pullback in construction, particularly single-family construction. we have already see that in housing starts. that is one of the things the fed will be looking at as a critical factor, how this impacts gdp and housing is maybe one of the most interest rate intensive -- interest-rate

sensitive parts of the economy. so we will see housing gdp so to speak which is how much our people, new construction, jobs, things like that are going to initially fall and we are going to see as home prices fall, people spending on renovation expenses and on furniture and other things to go along with home sales will fall. that is part of what the fed is looking at an their prognostication. one defines that stock, a housing recession is how it affects gdp. we are certainly i would say in one or we will look back and say we were in one in six months or so. host: why is the fed watching those markers? what could they do -- what is in their toolkit? guest: the fed has kind of -- the fed has a toolkit with only

a couple of tools in it. a lot of people look at the fed and say what are they doing? the fed only has a couple things i can do, it can adjust interest rates and certainly chairman powell has been very clear at jackson hole last week that they are not going to slow down on raising and keeping rates high until they see sustained declines in inflation. that has been clear rates are going to go up and after that speech, we saw the 10 year treasury increase substantial, which drove up mortgage rates. housing is a very interest-rate intensive part of the economy, that is where the fed is looking the other tool the fed has, they have been buying a lot of bonds, particularly mortgage bonds. over the course of the year as the fed says at the end of last year and beginning of this year they will cut back on not only

buying new bonds but starting to sell the bonds they had not only not replace them but sold some of the mortgage bonds on the balance sheet, that lead to higher spreads, which led to higher mortgage rates. a lot of the tools the fed has in their toolkit are tools that specifically impact housing. so we should not be surprised the biggest and most immediate impacts of fed reserve policy are showing up in the housing market. host: let's listen to what the federal reserve chair to say in jackson hole recently on inflation and what the policy is going forward. [video clip] >> restoring price stability will take some time and requires using our tools forcefully, to bring demand and supply into better balance. reducing inflation is likely to require a sustained period of below trend growth. moreover, there will very likely be softening of labor market conditions.

while higher interest rates, slower growth, and softer labor market conditions will bring down inflation, they will also bring pain to households and businesses. these are the unfortunate costs of reducing inflation. a failure to reduce -- restore price stability would mean far greater pain. the u.s. economy is clearly slowing from the historically high growth rates of 2021, which reflected the reopening of the economy following the pandemic recession. while the latest economic data have been mixed, in my view, our economy continues to show strong underlying momentum. host: professor? guest: i think he stated clearly what he is looking at and i think, honestly, what chairman powell is doing is what most americans and surveys say they want him to do, which is to not let inflation get in batted --

get embedded in the economy and take off. it is clear whether you look at polls or listen to what politicians are talking about. on both sides of the i/o, it is clear people are worried about inflation. chairman powell -- i did not think is taking a stronger review than fed chair's have recently, in the sense that people think about core inflation, and a lot of the headline inflation, which does not include things like food and energy, has been worse than core inflation. it used to be the federal reserve chair had this focus on what is going on in the underlying economy, but food and energy have been very volatile and they have been pushing prices up. they have come down recently with some developments in energy markets. that is a little bit in some inflation prints but there's a lot of momentum in inflation. one of the places a lot of that

momentum is coming from is the housing market. where home prices have continued to rise and rents, which home prices are reputed rent and rent is a third or more of the cbi, how we -- cpi, how we calculate inflation. those things have embedded growth built into them. we measure rent increases from this year to last year, 12 months ago. even if rent growth starts to slow, relative to 12 months ago, it will be high and probably has been continuing to spike up. there is a lot of embedded inflation and momentum in the economic data, which i think people in the market in hearing chairman powell's comments interpret it as saying we are going to see rates sustained highs. and the idea the fed is going to cut things in 2023, bring them down a little bit, is not in the cards. that is what we are hearing and

then when you think about that in the housing market, it is clear the implications of that for housing because it is the most interest-rate-intensive sector. i know he is focused heavily on the labor market because ultimately that is what is driving wages with a gdp perspective or a key part of the economy. housing is nothing huge share of gdp but housing is the place that this stuff hits. one of the few places it hits most americans most directly. host: we want to encourage viewers to join us in this conversation this morning. we have a lot -- divided the lines of region in the country. eastern and central, (202) 748-8000. mountain and pacific, (202) 748-8001. if you are buying or selling a home, if you're in that, we want to hear your experience, and that is (202) 748-8002 for you. that is your line. we are talking to christopher mayer, a professor

of real estate columbia business school. you are also the ceo of longbridge financial, correct? guest: that's correct. it's a reverse mortgage company helping to look older americans responsible use home equity in retirement. host: i want to bounce this off of you from harvard university's a joint center for housing studies. "by buying up single- family homes, investors have reduced the potential availability to first time occupants. they are likely to target investor-owned homes and are typically converted from owner occupied to rentals are upgraded for resale at a higher price point. what is happening with investors in this housing market "guest: i am not as down on investors as that report. if you look at data on homeownership rates, they have been rising and, other than

pandemic bliss, we are basically on the trend line that we had pre-covid. we are close to the trend line in terms of homeownership rates in the country. so we are still recovering but relevant to historical levels, the homeownership rate is almost 66%. is -- it is up from where it was earlier there have been new homebuyers coming into the market of people buying homes. do investors play role in impacting homeownership? yes, but i do not think it is the biggest role. this idea of people continuing with investors, i think the biggest challenge for investors has been their impact on the overall price level. if you look at purchases by home investors, and i did a bunch of research on this looking at this in the last session, particularly as you get to where the peak of the market, investors come in in greater and greater numbers, often looking

to flip houses. in the old days, we used to call them flippers, speculators, but now we have technology companies, we call them ibuyers, but to me it is likely the same thing, when home prices are going up like crazy, people are buying that to push up prices. i do think in some markets where you saw 30% or 40% of home purchases made by investors, i worried about that and i do worry about it and i think markets like that, when you look at places like phoenix, austin, some of the california cities, sacramento, where you had a lot of these investors in the market, i think we will see prices soften and come back down. as those folks have to turn around and sell the properties. i will also say about 40% of investors sales are larger investors, many of whom buying to convert the homes to single-family rentals.

that is also true of smaller investors as well. those are different people because they are not pulling supply out of the market, they are responding to what has been a big spike in rents, and if we thought some of these home prices were going up, we saw rental prices going up just as fast in double-digit levels. they are responding to demand for single-family rentals. those houses are getting purchased and put into the rental market. they are not disappearing from the supply and demand dynamic and there is also a big increase not just in people wanting to buy homes but in people wanting to rent homes. the dynamic -- i worry about the speculator dynamic in the markets, we saw as dillow pullout -- zillow pullout earlier this year. i think we will see some of the other people who are buying and intending on selling in a few months, i think those folks will

be disappointed in terms of the prices they will get. i do not think that has been -- that factor alone has the been -- has been the thing driving homeownership. i think it is within a few tenths of a simple projection over where it was going into 2020 pretty close to where it would have been before. maybe a little lower but certainly not something i would look at and say let's go stop investors from buying in the market or other things people have talked about. i do not see it at that level of concern. host: it would be interesting to see what viewers have to say. if they can react to the headline as well. is the housing market in a recession or a correction? kathy in cuyahoga falls, ohio. go ahead. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i want to say i am deeply and desperately concerned about the destruction of the natural world habitat by developers, whether

it is single-family homes or other. and with all of the fires and floods and iran, my part here, beautiful woods are few and far between anymore if it is not in a park. a lot of times they are for sale. i just want to know, what do you think of this -- and correct me if i'm wrong, the scientific community is deeply concerned about this. instead of doing what we're doing, which seems unchecked and problematic, is it out of the realm of possibilities where we could have a moratorium on developing in green areas and instead figure out every way to be superefficient first? guest: great, kathy. i think it is a great point. i also worry about the environment and climate change. columbia has started a new school on climate science. my peers and colleagues at columbia are worried about this

issue, and i think climate change is a challenge. i will say, to me, the biggest problem we have is we need to build more houses. housing affordability is a real challenge for people, not only middle-class but lower middle-class of people who are the bottom and middle of the income distribution. so we need to build more housing and we have not built enough housing. the question is how do we do it in a sustainable way. i think a lot of it in local communities has to do with zoning restrictions that do not let us build a bigger -- a greater density. and put a lot of restrictions on developers. developers respond to the economic environment around them. if what they have to do is build houses with bigger lots that are further separated from each other and cannot build multiple units on a single lot, the only place to build is this -- build is to sprawl out further and further. they are just responding to

economic signals. in home prices are going 30% of 40% up, home builders are building because that is what the market says, and frankly, the market says we need new construction to keep the market more affordable. when i think about the problem and i will say i'm not -- i know this is a political channel and in us was to be taking political views but i think the biden administration is trying to do a little bit by putting incentives for local communities to zone a density greater levels but i think the initiatives like in california -- yes in my backyard -- and places in the south that already allow building a greater density, those are the kinds of reforms we need to really allow builders to build more densely. that will keep things concentrated and limit the environmental impact you are talking about and that will help affect affordability. for me, those things have to be thought about together.

honestly, economists have been talking about this since i got my phd in economics many years ago at m.i.t. . economists have continued to say they are not in buyback yards, some are environmentalists pushing this. we need to build more but we need to build more affordably and that means building more densely, which then would have any impact on environmental construction. in other places, the squall we see in places like phoenix, in some places of california where there are water issues and supply issues like the colorado, droughts, and allowing people to build in some of these places and not imposing rules would say we have got to have enough water. it is not only ohio, there are plenty of other parts of the country where we are having real problems and i think we are not taking a sensible view in how we think about in a holistic view

and how we think about housing in the environment. host: let's go to arkansas, james, good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call and i agree with a lot of your statement. it seems you use data but you do not see the root of the data. let me give you an example. go to lowe's or home depot and the price of a two by four, a stack. that is what causes houses to expand in price, the builder has to build the house. and pay through the roof for a civil stud, windows, fixtures, you name it. you look at statistics but you are not looking at the rate of your statistics. host: let's hear a response. guest: let me tell you this, i absolutely track construction costs and i will tell you if you look at the difference between home price appreciation and the growth in construction costs, it is within 6% or 7%. another other words, to your

point, construction crops have grown just as much as home prices have grown and one is related to the other. there is no question that costs are higher. some of those were pandemic-related, both in the u.s. and globally. you had, for the two by four and the issue of lumber, a lot of it was lowe's got hit by covid, had a hard time hiring people, and had not been able to ramp up the production as much as before. but lumber costs have come down a lot. to me, one of the reasons i'm not saying we will see a big decrease in home prices right now is construction costs had gone up a lot. construction costs are going to keep a floor on where home prices are at the moment. so i agree with you entirely. construction costs are important to track and are a key factor in what is going on and if you look at it, everything has become a problem for builders.

what they're are paying for labor, with wages having gone up a lot, and particularly the bottom and middle of the wage distribution, people working construction jobs have a lot of opportunities to go to different places so wages are gone up. materials costs have gone up, though they have come down and so have lumber costs relative to the peak they were over a year ago. so everything, materials cost -- with what is going on globally, including the impact of some of the instability, all of this stuff is playing in the same direction. i do think the cost of materials are going to come down. particularly as rates are rising. i think that is part of the equation that is -- has moderated so far. there's no question you are right about that and that is why people like me and other professional forecasters are

saying they do not think home prices are just going to collapse. it is because costs are high and they put a lot of pressure on people. there is no question. host: let's hear from kathy in center harbor, new hampshire. you are buying a home? caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. host: you bet. caller: quick background, i have been in mortgages and real estate and title agencies for over 30 years and fortunately i am retired. while covid hit, one daughter moved back from seattle, washington, the other and her fiance who is now her husband moved back from brooklyn to new hampshire. they lived with me and were able to save money during covid because of being able to work remotely. fortunately, after everything else, they have been able to save some money and purchase a house. one daughter, we just closed on her house yesterday.

her background helps a lot but the cost of housing went up so much they decided to sell the lot and be able to purchase a house outright because of the cost of building went from almost double what they had estimated. they were able to get into a house that are not too thrilled about because it is a 1900 house , farmhouse, on acreage that my husband will have to repair a lot. my other daughter, who is single at the present time, is able to buy -- she was advised by her mortgage person to buy a multi family. so they are going different routes and i am working with the other one, i will be calling her loan officer because i'm worried about the interest rate because she is financing through the fha and she is probably at the market pushing up for what the rate will go.

the kids are both millennials. we are used to paying high rents in these cities. they came back to new hampshire and they are able to buy, but i'm more worried about the cost of electricity in new hampshire, the cost of heating is going through the roof, and they really have got to do something in regards to getting this inflation down for the next generation. i am at the end point. anyways, those are my thoughts. host: ok. guest: share. a few comments. you hit on -- i quite appreciate the callers we have had so far because i think they have hit on -- i had a set of points and they are basically nailing the other things we did not talk about. i will hit kathy's comments quickly. the first thing is, as you said, another factor in driving up demand for housing is just the amount of money people saved it covid, j.p. morgan chase

reported bank account deposits in the aggregate went up 1.8 chilean dollars. a lot of that was a combination of government money coming into the markets and people staying at home and not spending money on other stuff. that also lead to increases in demand. even though prices went up a lot, we also saw people coming in and buying homes. congratulations your kids are able to get into the housing market. and become homeowners. the first home my wife and i bought, i spent 30 or of graduate school fixing it up and maybe i should have been working on my thesis but i spent a bunch of time fixing up the home. for many of us your first home is something, it is supposed to be a little rough but we do not i'll get the thing we dream of the first time in the markets. on the inflation side, a lot of them are things -- when you talk about energy prices and food,

those are setting global markets. energy prices are high because of what is happening in ukraine and europe. there is not much the u.s. policymakers can do about that. if we think things are bad here, go to other parts of the world where the expenses make up a more meaningful share of household budgets and make up a more meaningful share of the cost for businesses. we are going to see recessions and other problems around the world so it is not a uniquely american problem. the federal reserve cannot suddenly change what is happening to ukraine and what is happening in global oil markets and the cut back gas in europe which increases the demand for gas in the u.s. and pushes prices up or everybody. a lot of these are geopolitical backers -- factors beyond the control of anybody, meaning the federal reserve has limited sets of tools and those tools are going to be rates rising and it

is a crude way to try to slow the economy, but it is the only thing the fed has to work on at the moment. host: brian in pennsylvania? caller: how are you doing? host: good morning. caller: one of the things i want to throw in to you guys, just thinking about this, something that need to be part of the state and federal governments, is the tax credits or tax rebates for looking at cars, installing solar panels. i think it is .3% now. if you wanted this country to go green, to really help the economy all the way around, that rebate out to be 100%. you put $40,000 into an electric solar panel system into your home, you want to be able to rebate -- you ought to be able to get tax rebates for that or whatever for -- for 100%. if you want people to go green, you have to make it affordable

and everyone will jump on the bandwagon. then you can get your money back through the tax system. just putting that out there. guest: residential use, less than the u.s. and more globally, is 30% to 40% of emissions. there is no question if you want to address climate change, you have got to do it in the housing market. i'm not sure massive subsidies right now are going to get more demand. most electric car manufacturers already have waiting lists. i think we have got to work on the supply side of this as much or more than the demand side. i'm not sing we do not want to encourage consumers to do things that are sustainable, but i think, and this is part of what i think the positives of the compromise bill that we saw are really focusing on the supply side. i'm not saying i agree with all of it and i'm not an expert on environmental production, but i do think we ought to focus on

trying to get the supply improved as much as we can, because right now there are plenty of people who want to buy electric cars and they are on a waiting list to get them. what we need is more batteries, more improvements in technology, get things to market more quickly, we need more solar panels. so there are things people could do. we could make it easier to finance solar panels through the gse's and fha and make it easier to do some of that stuff but i think there are lots of people interested in demand. we have actually seen pushback in other ways you can work with global utilities on some of the cutbacks they have had to make it harder for people to put electricity back into the grid. there a slew of things i think we can and should be doing in that area. host: let's go to california, bryce. what is the housing market like where you live in california? caller: good morning.

about the same everywhere. what i want to emphasize is cause and effect. the effect, housing shortage, war, disease, environments, blah, blah, blah, we no longer -- here is the cause, the human animal is over populating the earth. that is the cause. the effect is only spoken of on the media, down at starbucks or universities or business schools. they only talk about the effect. let's get back to the reality. the problem is the human animal is over populating the earth. i can get locally here. i lived -- it used to be in a small town. now it has turned into a city. they are bulldozing down the old homes that had big lots. the kids could go play in the trees and go play in the water

and all of that. now we are bulldozing those old homes and packing in people like sardines. wherefore to five to six people used to live on a lot, now it is 400 to 500. the people who develop to this in finance days don't live in those areas. host: i will jump in because we are getting short on time. professor? guest: honestly, i'm a fan of building a greater density because it makes things affordable for people who are here. i think if we look at the u.s. relative to most of the world, we are -- even in cities not counting all of the rural areas, we live at much less density than people do in other parts of the world. i think that raises the cost and makes it more difficult for americans who are looking to have affordable places and decent places to live. honestly, i think we should be l lang at ashby building at

greater density how we deal with the overall size of the population [indiscernible] host: what about the purchasing of second homes during the pandemic? guest: the second home market is interesting. there has been -- there was this big burst of people leaving cities, immediately after covid head. everybody in the new york market and everywhere around -- cell phone data set a lot of people's initial move was not over to some part of the country but the initial move was outside of the same metropolitan area they lived in, so instead of being 30 minutes to 45 minutes from downtown to live in the city, they moved to be a couple hours away. that was the predominant move into second homes. that led to a huge burst in demand. generally, if you look over long periods of time, second homes have had mediocre rates of appreciation relative to places in bigger cities. the reason for that is

straightforward, what drives up the price of a home overtime generally is going to be the land cost. and the land cost associated with a home is based on scarcity. and in many second-home markets, there is ponte a places to build. it is just the people do not build at perfectly high densities, lots of farms and other things available. there was this burst in demand, homebuilders cannot keep up, construction costs went through the roof as we started to see. that led to huge price increases in those communities. i think over time, people are going to start coming back to the office more. not everybody, not every job, but we will see more of that happening. and we will see people wanting to start coming back to cities because people live in cities, not jobs, because there are places to work but also places to live. my daughter graduated from college and took her first job and she and all of her friends went to live in new york and

downtown people from around the country, we have seen people wanting to live in places -- they are going to miami, dallas, new york, lots of interesting places to live, nashville. host: they want to live where the action is. guest: they want to live where the action is it i think people will come back to cities because that is where the action is and we are social beings. that means we are likely to see a little bit of a pullback in demand for second homes. i think over time, as construction costs abate a little bit, particularly materials, which are the big issue for some of these places and labor, as those things soften, i think we are going to see more construction in some of these places. i think we are going to see peoples' burst and buying is likely to come down a bit the reason to buy a second-home is it is a place to live.

if you look at a -- look at appreciation rates, whether ski resorts not necessarily aspen or sun valley but other than a few high-end places, looking at appreciation rates, buying a second home in rural areas, those houses have never gone up the way they have in other parts of the country, and i think we will see some of that soften overtime as the markets normalizes, in particular as we see construction become more affordable there. host: mark in seattle. caller: very interesting topic, very interesting real estate man that cares a lot about the environment. i am in a condo and i was considering buying a house, but i decided to save my money, but i really would like to buy a house.

around here in north seattle, they are running about at least half $1 million for a two to three bedroom. my condo will probably go for $500,000, so i would like a little advice on which way to go. it will cost me $500,000 either way the next couple years. guest: i will tell you what i tell my students, and, over decades, i have had many students and the number one question i get, despite the fact most of my students go into commercial real estate and not housing, is, over the years, should i buy a home? now i have an assignment at the end of class, should you buy or rent and what should you buy? my advice and the research i've done strongly supports the view that the reason to buy a home is not because you think you will make lots of money. you will, over time, housing

builds wealth. the number one reason, the big benefit of buying a home is the use of it. the answer to the question will sound surprisingly like a non-economist answer which is you should buy the place where you want to live. for long periods of time. within what you can afford, which obviously you cannot buy something you cannot afford. within what you can afford, you will live in that home for many years, and you will get the use out of it, if you walk out and go into the neighborhood, you'll become friends with people in the community and you will wake up in that house every day and maybe you will be working remotely for your job there. so buy a home because we want to, because it is a place to live, and don't worry so much about i think this one will go up more. the years and decades you have in your home are going to be the benefit of buying a home. after all, the return you get, the financial return is

dominated by the value of that home, by the value you get from living in the home. typical home prices in the u.s. over time go up with inflation, plus 1%. the stock market goes up faster. the rest of your return is coming from the use side, from living in the home. so buy a place you love, that you want to be in, and do not worry so much about do i think this one will go up a little more or a little less overtime. that will wash out relative to the memories you have and the things you get from being in your home. host: professor, what indicators, economic indicators are you watching in the coming weeks and why? guest: i pay a lot of attention to mortgage rates. that will sound a little bit of a geek kind of answer but i pay attention to real interest rates. which is interest rates after inflation. because housing and real estate is a durable good. it is a long-lived asset, which

means it will be around a long time. my research and other research -- and by the way, when i look at real, interest rates after inflation, so if you want to go to the same data i look at, you can go to a site run by the st. louis fed called fred. if you google fred economic indicators and look for inflation index interest rates, look at the tenure rate, i tend to look at that and say how does that say something about where prices are? the tenure rate, real interest rates, are high relative to where they have been over the past 15 years partly because of the fed action of buying bonds, etc.. i look at mortgage rates, i look at real interest rates, and i look at construction. looking at rents and prices in the housing market and homeownership. a lot of the statistics i've talked about here, virtually all of those are available on the st. louis fed website. you will see many newspaper

writers and commentators cut that stuff directly. there is a lot of data available and you have to pay -- don't have to pay anything for it and you can look at 30 or mortgage rates back to the 1970's. in the data, you can look at some of the other data. i always look at forward-looking inflation. the headlines about inflation are different than what investors are betting on in the markets, because investors' expectations peaked in march of april -- march and april of this year and investors expectations have gone down and further. the market thought for a while inflation is likely to get under control. those are the things i tend to look at, some of the more kiki economist indicators and some of them are the same things people looked at in general to try to track the real estate market. what are prices? what are rents? what are mortgage rates? host: right.

guest:host: we appreciate the conversation with you this morning. guest: appreciate you having me, greta. i appreciate the great calls. we had a good group of colors that raised interesting questions. host: thank you so much. the house is coming in for a quick pro forma session. they are not in washington this week. we will bring you live coverage on c-span. which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [crowd talking] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2022] order. the chair lays before the house a communication from the speaker. the clerk: the speaker's rooms, washington, d.c., september 2, 2022. i hereby appoint the honorable jamie raskin to act as speaker pro tempore on this day. signed, nancy pelosi, speaker of the house of representatives. the speaker pro tempore: the prayer will be offered by the guest chaplain