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september 18, 2022. the white house is grappling with the unprecedented surge in migrants of the southern border, and criticizing gop governors for transporting those migrants to other parts of the country. meanwhile those red state leaders say those actions were needed to draw attention to the immigration crisis. a crisis they say is caused by bidens border policy. know what you think about this political and legal battle. you can start phoning and out. democrats, your line is (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents (202) 748-8002. you can also text us at (202) 748-8003.

you can find us on twitter, facebook, and on instagram. we already are seeing a lot of coverage nationally about those transports of immigrants from the southern border to martha's vineyard and to washington dc. this is a headline that i want to show you from the washington post. the headline says:

i am going to skip down just a little bit to this paragraph. that is a little bit of the state of what is going on right now. let's hear now from the florida governor. he is the one who sponsored a

couple of flights from texas to martha's vineyard. let's listen. >> all those people in new york who are beating their chest when trump was president saying they were so proud to be sanctuary jurisdictions, how bad it was to have a secure border, when a small fraction of what those border towns deal with everyday is brought to their front door, they go berserk. they are upset that this is happening. it shows you their virtue signaling is a fraud. they are supporting policies that are frankly indefensible. it's not defensible for a superpower to not have any control over the territory of its country. he inherited a situation where you didn't have this happening. we need to build the wall. there was more we needed to do.

he reversed the trump policies. one of the reasons why we want to transport, it's expensive if people are coming here. if we can do that in a sanctuary, the chance they go to florida it comes down dramatically. every community in america should be sharing in the burden. it shouldn't fall on a handful of red states. they have two decide, this is a policy you supported. when you get a small amount compared to what these people have dealt with in texas and other states. we see americans moving here. people visiting here. we are the number one state for foreign tourism. even people across the border, a

lot want to come to florida. our message is we are not a sanctuary state. we don't have benefits for any of that. what would be the best is for biden to do his job and secure the border. host: that was the florida governor. let's hear from the white house press secretary. this was a press briefing last week. she addressed the migrant relocation. this is what she had to say. >> yesterday, to republican governors lured 100 asylum-seekers, including children, on two planes and buses with false premises and then abandoned them on the side of a busy road thousands of miles away with nothing but ziploc bags of their belongings

in hand. these were children, they were moms, they were fleeing communism. what did the governors do to them? they use them as political ponds, treated them like chattel in a cruel premeditated political stunt. why else would he have spent the time to charter a flight to take migrants out of a different state, not even his state, and hire a videographer to capture footage of that flight, but not bothered to let massachusetts authorities know that migrant children were about to land on their doorstep. these vulnerable migrants are reportedly misled. they were misled about where they were headed. they were told they were heading to boston. they were misled about what they would be provided with when they

arrived, promised shelter and benefits and more. these are the kinds of tactics we see from smugglers in places like mexico and guatemala. for what? a photo op? because they care about creating political theater more than creating actual solutions to help people who are fleeing communism, to help children, to help families. president biden put forward a comprehensive immigration reform package on his first day in office. he secured record funding for the department of homeland security. we once again invite republicans to support both. host: that was the white house press secretary. let's go to some of the editorials on this migrant

flight to democratic areas. i want to start with the wall street journal. this is by their editorial board. i am going to advance toward the end where it says:

again it, that is from the wall street journal. we are going to go to your calls. democrats (202) 748-8000. republicans (202) 748-8001. independents (202) 748-8002. let's hear from peter in new york. good morning. caller: good morning. caller: this is i think another example if we allow the republicn

thought process to manage human beings at the border. i think democrats need to take control of the situation rationally, pragmatically. look at it in a very scientific way, how may people are coming, how many resources do we need, what services are needed. we send them somewhere where they are not going to be taken care of, you shouldn't lie to people. don't go with them -- goad them into going somewhere. that's my point. thank you. host: let's go to douglas in california. caller: good morning.

thank you for taking my call. i think the editorial you read from the wall street journal kind of sums up my point of view. the federal government has been failing this country on the issue of immigration for decades. people are encouraged to come here, whether it's to seek asylum or for economic reasons or they are smugglers. the federal government needs to take control, control it, evaluate who should be allowed into the country and who should not. otherwise, we will continue to have this political stunt on both sides of the aisle instead of effectively coming up with a rational, reasonable policy that acknowledges those people who need help and punishes people who shouldn't be in the country

in the first place. we already are overwhelmed. we are overwhelmed with drug smuggling. it is time that it stops. host: these migrants -- douglas is gone. i will have to ask another time. let's bring up john in rhode island. go ahead. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. the previous caller is a very intelligent man. here is my point. this is all being done by design. the people coming in, they seem like they are very nice and family-oriented. they're looking for a better life. this is being done by design and

primarily from people like george soros. his real name is george schwartz. he is satan personified. host: we are going to go to another collar. kevin is in michigan. go ahead. caller: you said it right. how come -- i thought we had a law that if you were some kind of person who feared for your life, you would have sanctuary in the first country you come to. we are getting people from all over the world. where does this end? i look at these people by the thousands. they come with a backpack. they come with nothing. everything that they get is

coming from the american people. how many millions of people can we afford to pay for everything? there has got to be a stop to this. if it doesn't stop soon, were not going to have a country anymore. host: next is bonnie in pennsylvania. caller: thank you very much for taking my call. my grandparents were immigrants and came to this country through ellis island. they were given their shots. they came in separately. they had sponsors. they built a wonderful family. they worked their way. they came in legally. i see now that we've got polio

arising again in the country. we have other diseases that we never had. we've got 2 million people coming through the southern border. we are known as a country with no borders. we are the only country in the world with no border. i am not jewish. if people would realize what israel does, you can go to israel. you can go in as an immigrant. you have six months to assimilate to the culture, get a job, become self-sufficient. why can't we do this? why do the taxpayers have to take on all of the medical, educational, everything. half of them don't even work. they go on well. . i know this for a fact. host: up next is john in

liverpool, new york. caller: i'm a democrat. i favor gun control, abortion rights. the one thing thing emma kratz e completely wrong on his immigration. you cannot have open borders. i look at these caravans coming in. most of them are young men. half of them are probably criminals. common sense tells you that. these young people come in, they want to get there parents in. people that are old have expenses. i paid into the system. these older people never paid in. you don't deserve it. everyone that is talking about these people come in and in getting a free ride, it's true. the democrats have to clean up this issue. they are losing people like me who have been a democrat my whole life.

i can't stand open borders. host: the next caller is anthony. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i would like to say i have empathy for the people that are coming over the border. i would like to say that we have people in this country who need help. we should be helping our own. i would like to say that the wall street journal was correct. i agree with what the wall street journal was saying. i think it is ingenious what abbott started doing it, sending these buses to new york. it certainly is getting the attention that it deserves.

the southern states having to take in these people, with no idea what to do with them. the by demonstration has been given lip service to this matter. if you listened to her speech, they have a comprehensive plan. this is the number one domestic problem that we have that we have to tackle. host: up next, rosalynn in wisconsin. caller: good morning. my thing is when it comes to immigration in this country, we've got to look at american government policy.

we need to start with manifest destiny and how american government interfered in these countries. haiti, for example. just about every country in that area of american government has been in a number of these countries, overturned democracies, put in puppet governments. were not learning that in school. people would not -- get on the government. enough is enough. that is a big problem with immigration. those people are over here because we have -- the government has interfered in their economies.

that is why we are having so much immigration. thank you. host: let's go now to john in maryland on the independent line. caller: that last lady hit the nail on the head. it's amazing to hear these -- save me from these christians. that lady, the last lady. if our government would stop tampering with those governments, they don't want to walk 3000 miles to come here. nobody wants to do that. when we take a look -- the government of texas, he has spent $12 million sending people out of texas. that's money that could be used to help them. for the sake of a political

showing, that's what he is doing. a couple of years ago, we gave $750 billion to the bankers who robbed this nation. where do you think the money is coming from? we got done dealing with all of these wars. where do you think the money is coming from? we are crying about people who are trying to survive, walking $3000 with nothing on their backs. fox is talking about drugs. drugs are manufactured by the people with money. these people aren't ringing drugs and. they are trying to survive like we would do. these are human beings. when communism was in europe, look at the people coming from ukraine. like the lady said about haiti,

all of those are people of color. if they were white people, they would have their arms open. our government needs to stop tampering with those governments. stop putting those puppets in there. host: we are going to have to move on. jimmy is in maine. go ahead. caller: with all due respect to everybody that's called in, i don't care if you are lack, white, we have one country. it is our country. we can't go in and rape a woman and go into another country. i used to live in southern california. they would come in with fake ids. i called the irs. there is a young girl going into california it to flip hamburgers at 15 dollars an hour.

you've got cheap labor coming across the board. what is this going to do to our schools? how are teachers going to deal with people who can't speak english. graduating high school and can't read. what is wrong with you? take care of your country. this is the only one we have. this is it. we can't go back to what amount. we have to fix our country. host: next up is margaret in arkansas. caller: good morning. i've been listening to this, one of the first things i heard as they just have a backpack, they have nothing. that's the american story. my grandparents, your grandparents when they came here to ellis island, they had nothing.

that's the american story. how many times and heard of william ayres who came with $.25 and there pockets and they made it. we have emigrants here. for the most part, they are hard-working, good people, just like the rest of us. we are a nation of all races and people. we are the united states. that's what we are. we are not a white country, contrary to what that gentleman says. the white race has been in power maybe. that is changing. we have good people of different races and ethnicities. that's what we are. it's just crazy. i'm nervous. it irked me. i agree with the other lady.

we have interfered with other countries. they don't risk their lives walking thousands of miles, losing family members, children to come here to do damage to our country. we are not a welfare state. host: thank you, margaret. tiffany is in virginia. host: tiffany in cliff ton forge, virginia. caller: if the wall trump built is not working why don't we get the people building the wall around biden's beach house in delaware go to the border and finish that wall? also, speaking of the whites, when they sent them up to

martha's vineyard that whole island is mostly white so who are the racists now. host: next is patrick in palm beach gardens florida on the republican line. caller: good morning. i have been listening to all of this. it is fascinating to hear the dialogue. but i think it is a brilliant stroke by the state of texas and florida and arizona to bring the problem which democrats refuse to look at right to their back door to where they go to vacation such as martha's vineyard and or place the -- and other places like that. i think they should send them to harvard and new haven and california until democrats face

the reality that we have a massive problem on our border. we have hundreds of thousands of people coming across. the migrants who are illegal immigrants i'm completely and 100% for legal immigration into this country because that's what this country is. it is a melting pot. but we need to have legal and illegal definitions and from there to go on from there. that is all i have to say. we have all of this stuff coming in and it is terrible where children are being -- people are dying and there are 9 and 10-year-old young ladies from guatamala and -- host: we got year point. we are talking today about the republican governors who are

sending migrants to democratic areas to point out what they say is a crisis at the border caused in part by president biden's administration. we want to know what you think about this political and legal battle. before we get back to some of year calls we have an opinion piece talking about the migrants saying it is all part of appear ongoing campaign from southern republican governors who are using desperate people as political pans to protest the biden administration's immigration policies. it happened again thursday when texas governor abbott claimed credit for sending two surprise buses of might go grants to d.c. but they were dropped another the residence of vice president harris carrying all they had in clear plastic trash bags. those delight those in the trump

basis and they are meant to underscore the alleged hypocrisy of liberals by forcing them to deal with an influx of immigrants but they wound up highlighting the outpouring of humanity. democrats is 202-748-8000. republican is 202-748-8001. independents are 202-748-8002. let's go to vincent in north carolina on the democratic line. caller: good morning. thank you for accepting my call. first and foremost, i am a retired disabled veteran who served for 13 plus years in the military.

i have given 80% of my lifetime protecting and defending the right to democracy by which this country is built on. i'm not a selfish person, and i believe that everyone should be afforded ample help when possible. however, as a disabled veteran with four honorable discharges, i believe when i look back or see things going on concerning migrants coming into the country receiving benefits that i myself have been denied, such as

medicaid, medicare, food stamps -- i paid taxes into the state of north carolina from the age of 16 all the way up until my mid 40's and it just ticks on me when i see that these people come here and they get all of this free help of the -- off the american taxpayer's back and we are not taking care of our own, yet we put or lives on the -- put our lives on the line defending this country and can't get can't get anything as far as ample assistance, help, nothing like what these immigrants, migrants,

receiver. host: thanks, haven't sent. we will move on to paul in kansas city, missouri, on the independent line. caller: good morning. how are you today? i'm going to do this as bullet points so i won't take a lot of time. i hear people talk about how their ancestors came over and they did it the right way. and i know they did it the right way, but let's talk about what was the right way. there was an ocean between eastern and the united states. prior to any kind of immigration law, it was anybody that could come who could afford to. so the immigration laws had to be put up and put in place. but let's not say it was because of virtue and respect. it was because of appear ocean. -- an ocean. another thing i would like to

mention is, yes, i'm not for open borders and open immigration. there has to be a legal type of process. but once they get here i see them working in construction, i see them working as roofers. i see them doing hundred care and cutting lawns in neighborhoods full of trump signs. so they are a problem when they are at the border, they are great fodder on fox news. last thing i would like to say is something he said it my daughter we got off the interstate stopping for lunch and there was a guy standing at the corner, it is america so he has a sign i got no job, i have kids at home, please help, god bless you. and when we stopped to eat there was an hispanic lady who got up

and went to work that handed us our food. so, let's to the fool ourselves. host: let's go to itself in north charleston, south carolina on the republican line. caller: good morning. almost every point has been made that i was going to mention but i want to add this. when did it come cruel to take somebody to martha's vineyard. what i want to talk about is sanctuary cities because i live next to one. by the way the schools are bursting at the seams and at some point your child or grandchild will be in manufactured housing behind the school that you pay taxes for. here is what happened to the saefrpbg wear city. our -- sanctuary.

there's not enough immigration and custom enforcement agents to deal with the immigrants and local police, that is not their job. it is not enough resources to deal with the problem. so people find a home there and it becomes a breeding ground even though they are not felons necessarily it is a breeding place for crime. a lot of the immigrants become part of the underground part the cash society they are paid by cash and that is a crime but let's put that aside. what happens. they are easy targets for other criminals who will rob them and guess what, they don't report it to the police because if they go to the police they will be discovered as illegal immigrants so the circle of crime goes on that do not take care of itself. host: linda it lorena, texas on

the document lin. caller: i'm tired of these people saying i'm for legal immigration but i'm not for the bothered problems. guess what, it is in our constitution. it says that alum seekers can come here and apply for asylum. if they want that they need to get a constitutional amendment. they keep saying that democrats don't think there's a problem and democrats are the only ones that are coming up with any type of legislation to change the problems. but every administration has had it. the only reason trump had a little less problems with the border is because we had a public health law that he could install with covid that barred people from coming across our borders. they also think that these other

countries don't have border problems. they don't have the south american problem we helped to create. germany doesn't have a wall around its country. france do not have a wall around its country any more than we can afford to put a wall around our country. it is ridiculous. host: next we go to albany, georgia, on the independent line. caller: good morning. thank you so much for c-span. i really am amazed on a blessed sunday, we have through our history with immigration brought in many people. this is hispanic month. and i recall some lecture with graduate students last week about a 1960 to 1962 program

where we brought in over 14,000 unaccompanied childrens whose parents were part of the batista once in cuba prior to castro and they are in florida and the governor of florida is using his political stunt to use venezuelans and colombians. but you migrated with a wet foot program cubans who vote primarily republican in florida, in miami. i remember back in the day when families who came in -- host: i think we are losing you. >> i'm here.

do you hear me? host: yes, go ahead. caller: the point is that marco rubio, we have a senate race and governors race in florida. the republican party, they are the very ones this complain all the time about the verified system but when donald trump was there i didn't see them pass an, verify that with intersect with us creating the network so we could not hire. as the gentleman said earlier i just put on a roof on a property in florida i have and i had an entire group and this is a caucasian white roofing company that the insurance company gave, the entire group of works were from hispanic -- they were hispanicsment host: that is your point. we will move on now to john in new york on the republican line.

caller: thanks for taking my call. the topic today is g.o.p. governors send migrants to democratic areas. it took this long for this topic to come front and center in the "washington post," "new york times," and actually be front and center on the "washington journal." basically, this has been going on for, since biden was elected president. first day in office he changed all the kinds of restrictions with executive orders. we have had two million people cross or borders and -- cross our borders and we haven't discussed it until ron desantis and abbott the governors sent a couple bus loads to new york city, martha's vineyard. they don't have a wall around

martha's vineyard, right. but they kicked them out within two or three days of arriving there. they didn't have housing, they didn't have any resources. they got them out of there real quick. they could have gotten resources from the state of massachusetts. now, you guys wait, the liberal and you have a stack of newspapers, i bet you can't find one article in those stacks of newspapers of on your desk that has anything good to say about the republican party, republican governors, republicans. every article that newspaper puts them in a negative light. host: all right. next is tina in kansas city, missouri, on the democratic line. caller: thank you for taking my call. greg abbott and ron desantis, i

think what they did is really terrible. the republicans when trump was in office he told everyone he was going to build a wall and mexico was going to pay for it. that never happened. they said nothing. they weren't concerned. they said nothing. they also had, took money from republicans to finance a wall to stop all of the so-called illegals from coming across. that they have happened. they were quiet. they did no tactics. they did nothing and said nothing. this is all so they can try to score political points and knowing that there's an election and it is shameful and i see through it and it is not going to happen. host: i do want to mention before we go it more calls we have or c-span archives at c-span.org where you can find

past discussions on the immigration issues and we have guests representing both sides conservative guests and more liberal guests on the immigration issue. again that is c-span.org. let's go to terry in league city, texas, on the end line. caller: hey. prefer -- previous callers spoke to the intelligence community. we have an enormous amount of corruption. it is within the attorney general office, federal secretary for, f.b.i. obstruction of justice. it is effective against anyone who means it bring policy -- to bring policy and with citizenry it is harmful. i have for 26 years have been under the scrutiny of this and there's no way out of it. host: steve in corpus christi,

texas, on the republican line. you are on. caller: i was calling because everybody is making all of this hay about these people coming. is this the type of country -- are you telling me the baltimore particular states -- the baltic states, iraq and afghanistan and those countries are better people than we are? if these people are choosing political asylum why can't we do like every other country do? they are fleeing oppression. get other countries to accept them and that way we don't have the bulk of anything. they just want to be safe. so they can go to or countries. -- it other countries. they will go to another country where they are welcome. host: we go to kerry in barton,

north dakota, on the document line. caller: yes, can you hear me? host: yes. go ahead. caller: i think we have communication problems as far back as i can remember and i'm 86 years old. we need this help in our country. we need it for our agriculture. we can use them to plenty trees and fix areas that burnt out. but we've more corruption with or politicians -- we have more corruption with our politicians. a lot of them that have applied for citizenship why does it take 10 years working here and paying taxes and paying their share of taxes for no reason. it takes too long to process these people in the first place.

maybe there's not enough works down there. we've got to do something about the corruption in our own government before we can try to do something with another government. these people are cruel. they don't care about children. they don't care if they have got anything. they can send them off if they want to. but why don't they pack up the politicians and send them to the middle of the desert and say find your way until you know right from wrong. if you think lying is bad and stealing is bad then you're on the right track. until then these people don't know that we are losing our democracy. host: next up we have john in virginia on the end line. end l.

-- independent line. stkphrao i want to say there's a lot of racialen windowses that are going on. i'm an independent but i hear a lot of democratic callers assuming people are legally and automatically hispanic and automatically work in agriculture. that is nonsense calendar. there's a big difference between immigration and illegal immigration. i have property in florida and i applaud what the governor did when he sent them to relocationing the illegal immigrants because they were not migrants. if a person is an asylum seeker you will go to an embassy. secondly and more importantly, being from virginia, i recently had a family member who passed away due to covid-19 or associated with covid-19. no one was able to see that family member in the hospital. however, our governor at the same time took in over 400,000

afghanistan refugees without following the requirements that he required for americans to fly into virginia and they were allowed immediate access to medical care and other things. so, when people have an issue with folks coming here illegally or even people who are magazine tpwraeugt to country -- migrating it is because we see a double standard for americans to toll every day that -- to follow that people coming here illegally or refugees don't have to follow. so stop with the medical games. all these -- the political games. that has nothing to do with it. it is a matter of people coming to this country legally. host: next up is bob in tyler, texas, on the republican line. caller: good morning. i hope you can hear me ok. host: yes. caller: happy constitution week.

and for constitution week every school in the country is supposed to have a program on the constitution. i think almost none of them have a program. and it is our lack of knowledge of the constitution that allows this problem to happen. for example, the only written guarantee is article 4, section 4 and it was the person of the entirety of the constitution, which was expressed in the preamble, provide for the common

defense. article defense. article 4 section 4 says protect them from because they are violating the constitution. host: sandra in philadelphia on the document line, you are up. caller: yes. i can't understand, we have all of these signs in the windows about they need people to work. why can't we put these people to work? people are fleeing their countries because they are being murdered and children being raped. it is horrible. we are a country that said that immigrants can come here. we don't have enough people to work through the system to get these immigrants approved and we have people like the governors -- i don't see no sense in this. we have all of these job

openings and nobody to fill them. why can't we train them and put them to work to make their own living and make a work for themselves. host: next up is j.c. in mobile, alabama. you are on the end line. go ahead. caller: good morning. my great grandparents were immigrants, came into new york, ellis island. all of them died in t.b. in the catholic ghettos. something that is not mentioned strong undercurrent have lived and witnessed from new mexico to texas an -- and alabama is the same image of the anti-catholic bigotry in america. these people are brown skinned, they are predominantly catholic christians. you see the large love will you

murals on the back of trucks our lady of guadalupe. they are delighted and they are here. i work with these people as eastern workers and oil fields in the gulf of mexico. they are extraordinarily hard working good people who want to be americans. now, there's another part that no one is talking about. the united states military cannot recruit anybody. the young people today are obese, they have criminal records, they are lazy. they can't get in the military. the united states military is comprised of 18% latin hispanic people. they are rain -- lean, mean, ready to work. we need them. the people's liberation army now has 2.5 million members. the people's liberation force

are motivated. i talk to these people from honduras and guatamala and mexico and they are proudly american. they have the same drive and motivation that our forefathers will and americans have mostly lost. one side point not being mentioned roe v wade was appealed. 70 to 100 million americans have been absolutered in the womb. we have depending on whether stats you -- what stats you believe 15 to 30 million people here illegally from south of the border. this is great. we are making up for this huge loss of americans that have been loss -- host: we will have to move on. diane in new enterprise, pennsylvania, on the republican line. caller: yes, thank you for taking my call.

my theory of the case is this. if sanctuary jurisdictions have laid out the red carpet for this, then i support think jurisdiction that is not a swank wear -- sanctuary jurisdictions to be relocated to the sanctuary jurisdictions. if it is such a benefit insure thrive and the places they are not should wither on the vine. i don't understand why martha's vienna yard didn't -- vineyard didn't find some place for this beneficial boom that has been sent to them by ron desantis. i don't understand it. host: next is mike in reston, virginia, on the document --

democratic line. caller: yes, good morning. please give me some time. desantis should be indicted. they don't want to solve the immigration but at the want to use it to please white racists. we don't have open borders. we have miles of fencing, we've border agents. under title 42 he deported 1.2 million people and we had 3.5% unemployment. i had something made and people from guatamala worked on it. people cut my tree. they were from guatamala.

the contractor who hired them is white. so, where are these people? we need workers in this country. you cannot find them. restaurants. we don't have the workers. it does not make any sense. just republicans with a cultural issue. it is not a real problem and we do have open borders. host: that is your point, mike. let's bring up bill in port arrange, florida, on the independent line. why good morning. it is a little bit lively this morning. my thing is choice of words. i noticed when you first opened the president's press secretary then you cited some of the articles in the major newspapers. the folks crossing the borders

illegally are uniformly being referred to as migrants and not illegal immigrants. it was noticeable and i think we will continue to see that through the media and politicians that support this policy of not enforcing the laws on the books, whether you agree with the laws on the books or not they need to be enforced until properly changed. it is a lot easier to feel sorry for someone that is called a migrant as opposed to opposed tl emigrant. we need to notice this and challenge it. yourself included and the other c-span hosts are also referring to these folks as migrants. maybe that could be a topic. host: i want to mention that the migrants that were taken from

texas to martha's vineyard are asylum seekers from venezuela, so they would not be considered illegal immigrants because asylum is something that people are legally allowed to claim from communist countries like venezuela. let's go now to robert in waverly hall, georgia on the democratic line. caller: good morning. i'm calling just simply to say the united states of america is a big place with a lot of land. why can't we get language and help -- along and help or neighbors. we are all immigrants. a lot of us like slavery we had there choice. but what i see that these white governors, desantis and abbott,

their thing is they are about racism. that's what it is all about. they want this america to be lilly white and no diversity. that's not going to happen. if they will get their racist beliefs out and act more christian because they are always talking about we are christian. the thing of it is that this country was founded on immigrants and immigrants are hard working people. i know. i see their hard work. for president trump he had immigrants working for him under cover all the time. so when it is to their benefit it is good and when it is not it is not. we need to get along and let the immigrants in because a lot of americans would not do the jobs immigrants do and they help cook

food in the grocery, et cetera. thank you very much. host: up next we will be joined by syndicated columnist and president of the center of urban education and later mother jones washington bureau david corn discusses his book american psychosis an historical investigation of how the republican party went crazy. we will be right we will be right back. >> this week on the c-span network the senate homeland security committee holds a hearing tuesday on unaccounted

deaths in american prisons. wednesday the same committee considers the nomination to be head of the national archives and records administration. it has been in the news for the role in the f.b.i. seizure of documents from former president trump. wednesday the federal reserve chair will have a press conference were the house an senate are both in sessions and both are expected it take up a spending bill to avert a government shutdown and vote on nominations appear ratification to the global climate treaty and student loan relief. watch this week live on the c-span networks or on c-span now our free mobile video app. go to c-span.org for scheduling or stream video. c-span your unfiltered view of government. >> on monday britain says goodbye to its longest serving

monarch as the state funeral for queen elizabeth is at westminster abbey. it is 5:30 a.m. on on c-span. c-span now or online at c-span.org. >> c-span campaign 2022 coverage is your font -- front row seat. speeches, meet and greet, debates and other events during the senate, house and gubernatorial races. don't miss a single looks moment. being take us with c-span now the free mobile video app and c-span.org the web site for all midterm election coverage. we have charts it track results from every prime prayer.

campaign 2022 your unfiltered view of politics. host: we have star parker will be discussing abortion policy in campaign 2022. good morning and welcome. guest: thank you. good to be with you. host: remind or viewers what is the -- remind our viewers what is the center of urban renewal. guest: we are a policy institute so we work on welfare reform and promote market based solutions. we have one research program of policy, one does media with black community news and weekly television show and one is clergy in pastors to help them

move their communities from government dependency into prosperity. we get no government. we work on $3 million budget and 10 full-time team management. host: do you have any organizations that support you beyond individual people? guest: we work closely with allied groups in washington and or policy thinkers with any poverty initiatives but no, we are an independent organization 501(c)(3) and all donations are nonprofit. we have a few foundations that help as well. host: you were among the pro-life activists at senator graham's announcement a 15 week federal abortion ban. what was your role in crafting that legislation and why do you think 15 weeks is the right cutoff? guest: we played no role in crafting that legislation.

what cure does on an annual basis is research and study and look at the impact of abortion on the block community. i have worked in pro-life the last 30 years and spoken on more than 300 pregnancy care center banquets. he decided to drop a bill because the democrats have tried to make a national effort when it happened. it went to the states in each state and they were going to discuss abortion in their individual states. because it administration is so invested in abortion they determined that they were going to make national news about it and start putting forth bills and even using in terms of racism and antiblack in the rhetoric to pass legislation in washington, d.c. while people in the state were trying to sort through the crime against

humanity. when dobbs came down it got rid of 50 years of policy forced on a society when it comes to abortionment many believe it is a crime against humanity and we should not do it at any time. the fact this graham said 15 welcomes is consistent with with dobbs ruled on in the mississippi indicates. mississippi said 15 welcomes we know there's pain and there's heart beat and this is fully developed so we as a nation should have a discussion about abortion. i think that what happened in senator graham's offices as they saw the democrats were i understand r investing not just trying it pass and promote it but interrupt what was going on in the states by making abortion a thumb within issue when it came to 2022 elections so i was honored to be selected to be part of that group that stood there. many of the pro-life leader that i have none for years to stand there and say war not going to allow one side of the

discussion. host: we will get to calls in a moment for star park. democrats you can dial democrat -- 202-748-8000 republicans, 202-748-8001 and independents it is 202-748-8002. before we get to some of your calls we want to bring up that this week senate relying leader mitch mcconnell was asked about store graham's abortion legislation and we want to hear his response. >> senator graham has the 15 weeks of abortion, will you put this on the floor of the senate for a vote or commit to leaving this to the states? >> with regard to his bill you will have to ask him about it. in terms of scheduling, i think that most of the members of my conference prefer that this be

dealt with at the state level. >> with regard to the abortion issue do you feel republicans are doing enough? it seems like democrats are controlling the issue saying that your grandmother will more rights than you. do you feel republicans need to do a better job of educating america? >> i think every republican senator running this year in these contested races has an answer as to how they feel about the issue. and it may be different in d states. -- different states so i leave it up to the candidate who are capable of handling this issue to determine what their response is. host: star, we just heard from senator mcconnell and he mentioned what you mentioned that a lot of republicans think this is something that should be left up to the states. you mentioned this was an initial reaction from many

conservatives after the dobbs ruling. why is the in the ban like senator graham proposed necessary? guest: i think that senator graham -- i don't want to speak for him because democrats have been incredibleably extreme. ninth month, ninth hour which made it a national issue before the discussions could take place in the states. when we talk about him life this is a personal decision women have been making because abortion has been legal. what we have not been able to do the last 50 years is have discussion about what this means when we talk about killing an innocent in a womb. as a nation we have had a crime against humanity when it came to slavery and we saw similar activities. court decisions, state decisions. but the american people should be allowed the opportunity to discuss do we think that we should as a civil society

exterminate children in the womb. host: before i move it calls can you lay out where are you on the abortion issuover. do you think it should be allowed to a super point or depositions for the life -- exceptions for the life or if then fanatic is not viable? guest: i'm 100% anti-abortion. many of the comparisons were to the or piano countries. when you -- european countries. when you look in friend countries, south american countries, they don't want abortion. it is forced on them. one thing that is consistent in this annual study of cure of the impact on the block community planned partner haotd of this been consistent which was limit the size and scope of africans and brown, black and brown people. she didn't believe that black

people should be able to produce children in these numbers we produce so she wanted to control the populations. it is fascinating to hear the discussions from democrats who want to interject race when you think of how many abortion clinics are in black and latino communities and what is an considerable now black people have had more deaths at the hand of abortion than people alive in the 1960's. we need to have this discussion as black people and we cannot allow for democrats to demagogue it and interject race to pretend this is not true of the founder of planned parenthood. host: let's go to some of your calls starting with john in moxville, new york on the republican line. caller: thank you. star, thank you. i was just going to say what you said a second ago about planned

parenthood in the black community. i think the worse thing that could have happened to the black community and inner cities were liberals. they project this mentality where the african-american community inside cities and around the country are not able to protect themselves so they have to provide guidance. back it planned parenthood i think i read a statistic that since its inception 18 million unborn block babies have been terminated since planned parenthood started. i don't have that statistic in front of me and cannot verify but i believe i read that. it has been trpld a form -- been trpld -- termed a form of general know side. guest: it is about 20 million since roe v wade and there are

people in our society that insist we should keep certain population groups low. we do not want master production so what they were able to do is sell to pastors and community leaders that abortion is a good idea to alleviate poverty. it is unfortunate over time many african-americans have brought into it and women who are regretful now for what we bought into. but you are right, to have moved from slavery to jim crow and then welfare and then roe v wade has hurt african-american progress. host: we go to connie in ambleer, pennsylvania on the democratic lin. caller: good morning and thank you for allowing me to come on to "washington journal." excuse me, star, there's something you forget. it is called choice. it is choice. you keep saying they are

demanding or they are trying to make people have abortions. it is a personal choice that a woman and her doctor and her pastor can have. no one is pushing abortion on anybody. it is a woman's choice and should not be standing in the way of a woman. besides that, you are the one who is bringing up race. you brought up race since you started talking about this. the democrats aren't bringing up race, you are. you are bringing it up because you are trying to change the narrative. i think you are wrong. i think you are wrong and this is going to backfire. goodbye. guest: the bill this the democrats pushed through the house had language in it that was very offensive to pretend that white supremists are behind it limit abortion. you mentioned choice. choice loses its meaning if it does not matter when you choose. i tell you from an

african-american female perspective this is not just hurt us generally. it is personal for me as well. it was not until the fourth time i went into one of those so-called safe heal clinics i had a gut instinct that this has to be something wrong with killing your offspring. i decided i would not kill what was such a blessing to even get pregnant and to have a child. once i had that first child i have not changed any of my sexual patterns. i had it, i ended up on welfare and through a christian conversion change my life. here is what has happened. we have looked at what has been promoted through the liberal realities -- liberal relies saying it is about choice. if it is only choice why is it all focused toward this specific khupbt that has not grown and looking into what happens when you have abortion. familiar collapse. what happens when you have

family collapse? you have disengaged people and disengaged people have created 8700 broken zip codes where people are struggling for existence. they need leadership, choice loses all meaning if it doesn't matter what you choose the we need a moral compass and on this issue we are not talking about women alone. we are tacking in humanity tkpwraoug in their womb. host: our next caller is kathleen in temple hills, maryland on the independent line. caller: good morning, how are you? host: good morning. caller: i agree with her in some points but planned parenthood with the founder is all about choice. it is about ethics. it is about getting healthcare for people. it is about getting choices.

if you need to go there and get responsible choices about what you should do with your life and your situation. because everyone cannot afford to have a baby. i'm not saying that is the right choice but who is going to take care of these babies when they come out. who is going to do that? guest: under normal circumstances the mom does that or the dad. that is why we have to have a discussion about the collapse of marriage. when we talk about planned parenthood being choice why is it fighting pregnancy care centers and is constantly making sure information is not available to women about the development in their womb. why is it every time we have a situation where week see inside an abortion clinic whether it is one who is in jail saving back parts that women could see on a shelf when they came in with the

so-called healthcare or the abortion is just passed and they found babs in his yard in indiana and illinois where are we not hearing the movement saying perhaps we should have some look into what we have been doing. this is a ninth hour, ninth month insistence that we won't allow them any information. they are in the abortion business an force tax parse to give them money so they can continue with aborting mostly those that are black and brown. host: let's bring up now chester in dayton, ohio, on the democratic line. caller: good morning, c-span. my problem with it when abortions are legal -- are illegal it goes underground and women die.

not just the baby but the women. i grow up in the 1970's. i remember before roe v wade women died and the back died and so does the woman. come on! we are more civilized than that. that is what it is about. guest: we are more civilized but women die in abortion clinics. it is interesting to hear this as it women can't be responsible with their sexual energy. it is an considerable we have a society that bought into this lie we cannot control ourselves. that we need abortion because we are so reckless in our behavior that we are going to have to kill the child. do we want to kill it legally or illegally as the caller alluded to. he is from dayton, ohio. ohio is where we have seen so many women dying because of abortion. abortion is the only medical

procedure that is 100%en regulated at any point. this is a discussion we have to have and i'm thankful that the supreme court gave us the opportunity to have the discussions now but removing roe. now we are in dobbs world that says this does not belong in national. it belongs to the american people to legislatively say who we are going to be and what biden says is for the soul of america so abortion is part of that discussion because for us to look at 68 million dead babs in abortion we are talking perhaps 40 million william struggling through the reality of their lives. we are talking about 30 million machine who are -- men because we allowed abortion to continue. we have been here over slavery. we need the national discussion and hopefully without a civil war. host: you mentioned president

biden so i want to broaden the conversation and read an excerpt from the rocky month telegram a paste you wrote on president biden in part his performance in philadelphia he just gave that speech on democracy in philadelphia, his performance in philadelphia as most appreciate was politically contrived because former president trump is a polarizing figure. democrats want to focus on him rather than whether they are about and those who identify with maga want. it is not any one individual but the struggles for the high ground. the inflection point is where america will be seklar, absorbist and woke or free nation as conceived by its founders. give me more what you mean by that especially what do you mean by woke america? guest: we are in a cultural struggle as to who we are going to be as a nation.

as i termed many times we will be biblical and free or secular. we will be so out of control with things we as individuals should make right decisions about in our personal lives having the government there it protect our interests not to phrupbt r planneder and set woke policy that makes an environment or creates an environment for people to do whatever they want any time and throw the bill to the state. there is where we are having the discussion and hoping it does not intensify that left or right pull us into a civil conflict. but we are at that critical cross point. it is one thing president biden made clear he understands we are in a struggle for the soul of america. the challenge for many of us is that struggle from his perspective is for us to be seklar and state. big government is the answer to everything and there is no room for relying, religious people

and many in the heartland that are december people fed up with the control of washington. host: we are talking with star parker and we are taking your calls. democrat lane is 202-748-8000. republicans is 202-748-8001. and independents can call 202-748-8002. next up we have jeffrey in greensboro, north carolina, on the independent line. caller: good morning. thank you for taking this call. this is a very interesting and strong topic. first of all, there's so much going out in information that i wasn't aware of and i'm thankful for this program. it should be a choice of an individual depending on the

circumstances and there is so much that i was thrown off by when you brought up the millions and abortions of african-americans, placement of these clinics in communities. looking back at it, she is right on that. but it is is, in our communities that people of color are in dire situations. that might be within reason why a young african-american woman may be put in a position to take that stand. but it is so much politically now that is tied into it because i thought when the supreme court makes a judgment that it stands. i didn't know you could reverse it to have another administration put justices on the bench and then it is removed and it is so chaotic. then she hit points on the

millions and billions of dollars these services and where is it going back into the community of color. then the slavery situation touched a nerve because we have been destroyed by the forefathers at the beginning of this supposed to be great nation. where has in been great for african-americans. my 50 years has nothing but hearing pain and struggle and be conditioned and judged -- conditioned and judged because of the color of my skin. i can only hope whatever year work god has given you to passionately bring information out i hope there's no barrier to where it can put some foundation for our families because we are losing all of or families in some -- of our families due to abortion, struggle, mechanical -- mental health and you have a strong voice and i hope it is

succeeded with your journey. host: let's give star time to respond. guest: a couple of points i want to make. this is what c-span is about and i appreciate the opportunity to have the discussions. one the surprise that a court could overturn essy v ferguson. plessy said separate but equal. brown said no. you think about dred scott, moving in and out of free states, that is when the court said you know what, you are a slave. you are a property, you don't have a right. when you think about roe v. wade and dred scott and you take the names off of these documents and read the details verbatim, about

property, ownership, this is not human. anyway, court decisions change all the time. but poverty, it is really clear. this is the disingenuousness of most of the representatives on the democrat side. anything that breaking the cycle of poverty, you finish school, you get married, then you birth children. you save money and you get back to your community. and is really fascinating, some organizations during covid when we had the first incident where we then saw all of the racial tensions arise in all of the cities, put billboards in front of our hardest neighborhoods because we know that everything is broken. we work very closely in these neighborhoods to try to fix what is broken down. the main thing that is broken down his marriage. in the 60's, you had almost 70%

of black husbands in their homes with their wives raising children's. it is now reversed after the damage. our marriage has collapsed to the point that we have 30% of adults married. so of course you are going to have children that just don't know what to do with their lives. so we put these billboards up in our hardest neighborhoods where we knew that the schools were broken, the communities broken, the families broken. are you tired of poverty? you take any job and work harder than the person about you, get married. black lives matter demanded to take those billboards down. they said take them down or we are going to burn them down. this is the discussion we are having here in washington and why we are so adamant that since these issues were thrown back to the states, that we can have discussions not just about abortion, but about marriage, because that is why you are seeing this. it starts with poverty and other

implications as a result of that one thing telling our offspring. host: houston, texas, republican line. caller: thank you. and thank god for you, star parker. you are a blessing to this nation. and i know that you will be attacked, but don't ever give up. back to this abortion issue, i get so tired of hearing i have a choice about my body. you had a choice before you lay down and got pregnant. i'm almost 90 years old and back then, we didn't abort our children in the black community and none of us starve to death. when a girl got pregnant when i was younger, she was sent away and within a year she came back home and had a baby, but this girl went on with her life. we have changed that. we are killing too many of their babies. in all of abortion clinics, they

are kept in close proximity to black communities. we are killing our babies. and you can't tell me that god is satisfied with this. we need to stop killing our babies. i have a choice with my body. but you have a body inside of you that you have a choice also. that body inside of you should have a choice to live. i am a believer that these children will not starve to death. they didn't starve to death when i was a girl. and it was back in the day that in this nation, we have got to go back to god. guest: we have got a live. and the lie has continued and the democrats have promoted this lie in black communities that has hurt us deeply and now they want to force the conversation.

she is absolutely right. we did not, as a people, kill our babies. and now we are wondering why we have crises with our young men? when you think about the lies that we have broad, not just the lies of abortion, but the lives of -- there is nothing throughout the black community, a live in all of our men are criminals, all of our men need social justice because of these things. but when you really look at the data, we are a think tank in washington. there are more young black men in college than prison, but we don't hear that. we think they all are the same and it is democrats that keep pushing this narrative. number one, we've got to stop allowing others to convince us that our children are a human weed and have been killed off. more than 20 million african-americans in this country in the 60's when the

civil rights effort changed to sign into law. and now we are looking at 20 million? when you think about success, the gentleman mentioned earlier about poverty and what has america done for us? america has established a nation, the first in the history of the world and anyone from any background, any situation whatsoever can get out of it. but when you think about the success, you struggle, and then you move into sustainability, and then you move into success. we are moving up that track and then we started killing off those investors, as entrepreneurs to get us to the next steps, from just being income. at one point, we had trillion dollars in income. but when it comes to net worth,

we have killed off though that we were to pass to. host: how can you refute the studies and statistics that they abortion itself is an economic engine that with less access to abortion, particularly black women will have less economic opportunity and it could limit their ability to make money because if you have to take care of a child that perhaps you were not ready for, that it could limit you? that is what a lot of the statistics say. how do you wrestle with that? guest: i don't wrestle with it. i know that what will happen is we will adjust ourselves. we would have a whole lot of women cold mom and a whole lot of grand moms called grandma and as a nation, we would work through that. we always have. but what we will also begin to see his marriage. marriage will begin to occur again. we have broken down marriage because when you are sexually available, marriage doesn't necessarily occur and the challenge with women not controlling their sexual

impulses and marriage before they do get sexually involved is that these men are the one that loose track of time. marriage is a social stabilizer. yes, we will have a time of change in our society, and this is one of the reasons it is fascinating that we as a country should wrestle with our pregnancy care centers. there are about 5000 across the country, in every community. they do incredible work, they have for years and years. many states are now working directly with them to try to help this transition. this is something that did not just happen lately. there was not that infrastructure. but one thing we didn't do as he love the colors point out, we didn't kill our kids. yes, we have sources available in every community. we have people that say i can't do this by myself. you don't have to.

they don't have to do it by themselves. host: more calls for star parker. decatur, georgia, independent line. color: good morning, ladies. very interesting topic, very important topic. the so-called right, i don't think they are right, but they are 1000% against abortion. i am against abortion 1000%, but i think we are so hypocritical, the word abortion, how come we don't use the words -- why would anyone wants to kill a family member? this is your family member. why would we want to kill a future family member? nobody wants to kill a future family member. but we use the word abortion. and another thing, health care. the average cost of raising a

baby is $5,681. with you kill a child for $75,000? we don't want universal health care. 1.5 million homeless children? and 1000% i am against abortion but it is so hypocritical because they just throw them away. i mean the republicans, they are mainly doing it by health care. they fight increasing wages, a fight that. minimum wage, they fight everything that helps the child. but in the womb, we are going to fight for the baby. a future family member. who wants to kill a future family member? that is what he does, he incites folks. >> the area of health care is what i want to address. in particular, what the caller is discussing. when we talk about control over our health care, this is a

problem for all society that attempt to do this. the discussion from the republicans or what you call the right is should we have a market-based system? what we know about market-based systems in any area is prices come down. when you have government interject itself, prices stay high. when you look at any one of our zip codes where health care is a disaster, access to quality care is a disaster, the common denominator is the government controls the system. when you see health care working with people, that is why the suburbs have a much better health rate, better success rate when it comes to helping people get through the health care. when it comes to this issue of fighting mandates, one of the reasons republicans fight union mandates is because when you

have a middleman in any business, prices stay high. when you remove the middleman, you give people opportunity, the right to work at whatever wage they desire, the market, they control those wages and prices come down but wages go up. host: let's go to barbara in virginia on the democratic line. caller: good morning. first of all, i would like to ask this person what is the information that planned parenthood is selling body parts? second of all, you talked about health care. she needs to read the spaces she represents, that is the reason why they have no health care. thank you. guest: actually i work in washington, d.c. on public policy on a national level but what we do is we try to remove government barriers so that people can live free. we want to decrease government

dependency and most of our most complicated zip codes. so when it comes to the question about where is the proof about planned parenthood selling body parts, there is an investigation in california where people took planned parenthood and revealed that they were actually selling body parts. now, one question that we perhaps will get to any post-roe v. wade world is that we should find out what does happen to all of the fetal tissue left on site. i think that one of the reasons we really need to have that discussion is because of chemical abortions. 60% now of women are taking pills and flushing their babies down the toilets. what we need to do is have a discussion about what this is doing to the environment and to our planet. there is proof. i can't point exactly where it is. i do know that it did happen and

that kamala harris is making sure that investigative reporters are in court because of their investigations for planned parenthood as a corrupt billion-dollar industry. host: portland, oregon on the republican line, you are on. caller: hi. thank you for taking my call. what i wanted to say is first of all, a woman's body or a man's body is not their body, it is god's body that he gave to them. and there are five options other than abortion. you can have celibacy, and operation that the baby is going to be taken out of the mother and it will be taken care of at the hospital. there are protections for men

and women. and there is adoption. i mean, i don't understand. abortion, abortion. there are five other options. guest: we as a society must talk about this crime against humanity. there is a person in the womb then yes, we should consider that that person has protection. the fact that we are having this discussion is a good thing because we have not had this discussion in years. when people talk about the laws that change in the states, those were the laws in those states prior to interjecting roe 10 making this a national issue of taking away the state's opportunities to say what they want to do when it comes to abortion. personally, i want to end it. by support of laws and other types of things that were passed

to limit slavery from being as abusive as it could be, of course. going back to your original question about senator graham, do i like 15 weeks? of course i don't. i think we should be responsible with our sexual decisions. it is very difficult to do, but i think it should be done because now we are talking the life of an innocent. we are talking about does someone really own someone else and agree that they have a choice to interrupt? the reason it is called abortion, backed one of the previous callers, is because were interrupting a pregnancy. if this is allowed to continue, there would be a child. and at the last color pointed out, we do have other options available. adoption is an option. but so is parenting, so his marriage and parenting in that marriage. host: one more time, let me go back to the broader political issue of campaign 2022.

when president biden made that speech on democracy, he tried to delineate between maga republicans and the entire republican party. do you agree with him? do you think there is a delineation? what was your reaction to that? do you support a president trump candidacy in 2024? guest: do i think that the interjection of fear and intimidation that president biden is trying to do to split the republican party, do i think that is going to be effective? the jury is still out. most americans are incredibly concerned about the last two years under his leadership. they are concerned about the prices, concerned about the border, concerned about inflation, concerned about covid, what is happening in their schools. a lot of potential on what is broken down in our society.

who should we have represent us in 2022? i am not surprised that the president would try to interject fear and intimidation but moderate republicans are different from what you might call established republicans. ronald reagan says if you are with me on 80% i am with you as well because the alternative is worse in have seen the worst. host: let's go to howard in georgia on the independent line. caller: good morning. yes, i just wanted to talk about the potential of the child that is murdered. and i use the word murdered because when my girlfriends -- wife, now -- was 16, we got pregnant and i elected to advise her have that child -- no matter what any other people in the country said, that child became a minister of god and a united

states marine and a counselor in the marine corps. so if she had got rid of that, murdered that child, then god would not have been pleased with her and he is not pleased with many of these women and that father to murder that child because god has a plan for all of those babies. host: your final thoughts? guest: god does have a plan for all of their lives and i think that is one of those things that is lost in both of these discussions. the gift of life is a great miracle and any woman that has that opportunity to bring forth a child into the world should be blessed in that opportunity. whoever has decided to tell her otherwise told us about choice, convenience, poverty, and far too many bought into it. now we are on the recovery side. there is hope and forgiveness

for all of those women that have had abortions in all of those women that in the future will become moms. host: we have been talking this morning to start parker, a columnist and president of the center for urban renewal and education. thank you so much for talking with us. in the net at the top of the hour, we have david -- discussing his book "american psychosis: a historical investigation of how the republican party went crazy." but first, it is open forms. chance to call in on any public policy or topic on your mind this morning. start calling in now. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. we will be right back. ♪

announcer: tonight i q&a, johns hopkins university professor how brand shares the book "danger zone" we talked about china's mobile dominance -- global dominance and what the u.s. and other world powers should be doing. >> china is going to emerge as the superpower of the century does not strike us as particularly plausible. what we do worry about is that china would be poised to challenge particular areas, set to overturn the military balance of power in the western pacific where china has geographic advantages because it is close and we are far, or technological spheres of influence in the developing world and that china's insistence to do this, to behave any more risk-prone fashion will actually go as chinese leaders and xi jinping

realized that china doesn't have all the ties in the world to accomplish this. >> the book "danger zone" tonight on q&a. you can listen to q&a and all of our podcast on the free c-span now mobile app. >> high school students, it is your time to shine. you are invited to participate in the c-span documentary competition. picture yourself as a newly elected member of congress. we asked what is your top priority and why? the importance of your mission. don't be afraid to take risks with your documentary. the bold. up to 100 thousand dollars in cash prices and a $5,000 grand prize. videos must be submitted by

january 20, 2023. visit our website for competition rules, tips, resources, and a step-by-step guide. announcer: washington journal continues. host: it is time for open forum, where we are taking your calls on any public policy political issues you would like to discuss. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. first up, let's talk to jessica in wichita, kansas on the democratic line. you are on. caller: good morning.

i am just -- about the abortion thing, i feel like it should be my body, my choice, especially with someone like me, who has autism and what about crimes like rape and all of that? i think we needed to put donald trump in prison a long time ago. there is so much evidence already and i think it is ridiculous that the party has insisted it is a lie. it is just ridiculous. i feel like people forget about

this guy. thank you. host:host: next caller in aurora, indiana on the republican line. caller: on the abortion, this lady, what if joseph and mary had decided they wanted -- because he was not the husband, mary didn't have sex to get pregnant and god knows -- today. host: next up, our next caller is christopher in nashville, tennessee on the independent line. caller: i will try to take a practical approach.

especially in times of teaching, polarizing. i do believe that people have the right to keep them safe in a certain timeframe, -- anything in this world. i believe a person should have freedom of choice. host: next up is fran in mobile, alabama on the democratic line. caller: thank you. my comments have to do with statements that were made by the previous guest. america is thinking about pro-life and it troubles me that

people speak about pro-life -- as one caller previously said, just in the womb. yet she can support a man who said that he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th avenue and he would not lose any supporters. i mean, what is pro-life? also as far as pro-life, i don't see any of these pro-life people when i was a person who worked in child protective services. i saw none of these pro-life persons coming. these children were placed in foster care from abuse and neglect. we never saw any of them coming to a safe and happy home. the hypocrisy needs to stop. pro-life is more than just in the womb. let's get some advocates for them. thank you.

host: next caller is in south carolina on the republican line. go-ahead. caller: i've been listening to your last collar and i agree with a lot of the points that she made. i want to speak about one thing she said. she kind of points the blame at president biden about tipping the divide on the republicans. i think that happened a long time ago. this whole nuance of rino. the whole country has gone away from political parties and is divided. i think if we could get back to that. i'm deliberately leaving out my personal faith position when it comes to government and abortion and all these things because i just want folks to stop finding arguments to support your

position and just look at it for what it is. and in the case of abortion, it is simple to me at the other caller said. you have choices to make before you get to the choice of ending a creation that you had no ability to create on your own. make those choices ahead of time. and then when it comes to caring for the children later, it is all part of the choice. i have six children. i am an african-american male, serve this country for 31 years, and i made some choices based off of what my parents told me to do. not with the government told me to do. and they were largely democratic, but they were conservative democratics. i think we've gone so far away from our core values because we've gone so far away from god that we can't see right from wrong now.

we can just see what makes us feel good and that is what is driving our division. thank you. host: elizabeth, indiana, democratic line. caller: the reason that i've called is because your previous speaker, ms. parker put out a lot of misinformation. i fear that she may be disseminating disinformation on purpose but i don't want to actually accuse her of that. i would like to ask that she review her material and examine where she is coming up with many misleading statements about the reality of the situation. i would also like to ask that congress and the senate passed laws about truthful information, misinformation, and the dissemination of disinformation because this is the primary

dividing factor, the dissemination of disinformation which is causing division america. truth, there is only one truth. anything else is misinformation and disinformation. and if congress and the senate don't address this soon, i don't see how we can recover or become unified. thank you. host: next up we have william from massachusetts on the independent line. go ahead. caller: i've been really upset about the refugee problem. i think other people should look this up. -- active 1980. i think if you read that, -- was

going on. host: and next call is walter in st. petersburg, florida on the republican line. >> thank you very much for having me. there is not a day that goes by that i'm not thankful that my mother had me and not a day that doesn't go by that i am thankful that my father got up every day, went to work and provided for me and was a role model. you should have star parker on again, except she covered so many topics it was almost like my mind was going to explode. thank you very much for adding me, and god bless america. host: next up we have betty in fort worth, texas on the democratic line. >> good morning.

she should have a right to do whatever she choose, that is between her and god. but we need to figure out why women are getting pregnant. it is not just the lady, it is the man. women don't get pregnant by themselves and make a decision. we have to stop it before it starts. talk to our boys, talk to our men. women are being raped and that is why they end up having abortions. it is not right, put the emphasis on men. women should try to protect the young ladies they are going out with. ladies, protect yourselves. as far as the immigration situation, i do not see nothing wrong with inviting people to

our country, but you should do it a little at a time. you should not have a big rush. we need to help everybody, and everybody needs to help us. that is all i have to say. host: our next caller is george in texas on the republican line. caller: good morning. the constitutional basis of roe v. wade has not ever been explained. that is just the way it is. it is based on the 14th amendment. states are comprised of citizens . birth is required to be a citizen. if you want equal protection to be a citizen, you must be born. the statement stated a legitimate state interest in this issue. in lieu of a live birth requirement, substitute natural viability and potential for

eminent birth and ability to survive that alito says the court did not explain. who would need to explain that to a supreme court justice? i have no idea. host: alright. that is going to wrap up our open forum for today. next is mother jones washington bureau chief david corn discussing his book "american psychosis: a historical investigation of how the republican party went crazy." we will be right back. ♪ >> c-span's campaign 2022 coverage is your front row seat to the midterm elections. watch it as it happens on the campaign trail. meet and greets, debates, and other events during the senate, house, and gubernatorial races. do not miss a single election moment because you can take us with you on the go with c-span

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c-span is america's network. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. if it happens here or here or here or anywhere that matters, america is watching on c-span, powered by cable. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are now herewith mother jones washington bureau chief david corn. he is going to discuss his new book. it is titled "american psychosis: a historical investigation of how the republican party went crazy." good morning, david. guest: good morning. host: let's start with the provocative title of this book, particularly your use of the word "crazy" to describe the republican party. why did you title your book this and why did you come to that conclusion? guest: let me go back to the title, which is psychosis. psychosis is a condition you are

detached from reality. you do not recognize or accept reality. here i am talking about a political psychosis. the obvious manifestation are the millions of americans who believe the election was stolen by donald trump. we saw them ransack the capital right over there a year and a half ago. since then and before then, they continue to insist that joe biden is not president there was no legitimate election, and they adhere to a variety of i would have to say crazy conspiracy theories about this. that china worked with venezuela to create ballots with satellites and the cia run out of italy to others. rudy giuliani said in arizona that they have no evidence. they have been saying this in an evidence for you, detached from reality situation.

that psychosis, crazy is a more generic term for that. i do think there is a craziness in the republican party. you could even see it last night and these past few days when donald trump has come out and endorsed qanon. he has tweeted out a meme of him wearing a pin that is an endorsement of a conspiracy theory that says that the world, the united states is being run by asa tannic cabal of sex traffickers and baby eaters -- a satanic cabal of sex traffickers and baby eaters. it is -- here you have the president of united states endorsing it in the past few days. he has played footsie with it here in the point of my book is this is not an aberration.

it is nothing new. it is an escalation or intensification, but going back starting with mccarthyism 70 years ago in the 1950's and late 1940's, the republican party has always encouraged and exploited far right extremism. this has not been the totality of the party all this time. it has always been present. sometimes it has waxed and waned and gotten more intense and less intense. some republican leaders have done more than others. it has always been part of the republican dna mso i think if we understand that history we can understand the present moment where you do not just have one republican leader endorsing coop -- q and on, you have the entire republican party endorsing the leader, who endorses qanon. mitch mcconnell said donald trump got the nomination again, he would support him.

so i fellow out there saying he would possibly pardon hundreds of trump supporters who beat up and assaulted brutally the police officers up there is now the leader of the republican party and has its full and entire support. that is why i talk about crazy, psychosis, but it is all in this long historical context. host: we know you go back and we will talk more about that. what do you hope your book contributes to the political conversation? what made you say this needs to be on the record in this way? guest: when i started this book a year and a couple months ago, i did not expect it to be as timely and relevant as it is. i think joe biden's speech a few weeks ago talking about the hold that maga extremism has around the party and donald trump's

recent moves to endorse qanon has made it timely. i am a journalist. i have also written histories. i really do believe to understand any moment in time you need to see how you got there. to understand what to do in that moment in time, knowing how you got there is really important. some people believe you can kinda flip a switch and go back to the good old republican party of some golden days. i think if you read "american psychosis," at least i hope you do, you will get the understanding that there was not a switch that was thrown. this was a continuation. the republican base has been radicalized and somewhat rep -- weaponized over a process of decades. if you are think about where we should go next, how can we have a country and democracy where 20%, 30%, whatever the number it is, does not believe in the legitimacy of elections, and now is in the grips of various,

assorted conspiracy theories, what you do about that? if you see it building up to this, you can probably come up with better answers than if you think it just appeared out of nowhere. host: we will get to your calls in a moment. i want to remind you of the numbers. democrats, your number is (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. before we go to some of those calls come i want to read an excerpt from your book got david. it says, in january 1962, william f buckley and other server luminaries met with barry goldwater at a floor to hotel and further discussed what to do about the birchers. goldwater was opposed to slamming the group.

others wanted to excommunicate the birchers from the conservative movement. they announced the leader of the john burton society but not the society itself. the national review blasted the leader's views as car -- as far removed from common sense but called the john birch society a home of dedicated anti-communists. when goldwater ran for president , birchers donated and volunteered for him. goldwater secure the nomination in 1960 four. that is an example you pulled out from the 1960's. tell us what you think that teaches us not just about how the republican party moved in this way but how it got us to where we are today. guest: it is interesting to me because you see barry goldwater,

who was extremely conservative, the hero of the conservative movement and became a presidential nominee in 1960 four running against lyndon johnson, he is saying the birchers, the john birch society, a far-right groups, saying in essence that communists had taken over everything, the u.s. government, ptas, unions, corporations, churches. it was sort of like you and on without the baby eating. a lot of people in the republican party were worried they would be tainted by the john birch society and its paranoia. here's goldwater cyan, there are some good people in it and some that we want to keep inside the republican tent because they are doorknocker's, volunteers, donating. it is votes. if you fast-forward to today, you can see that thinking in the republican party continued for decades. the tea party, john boehner

embraced the tea party when the tea party was saying that barack obama cannot president at this point, was a secret socialist muslim who wanted to destroy the american economy so he could impose a totalitarian dictatorship. glenn beck was saying that every night on fox news and saying that barack obama wanted to set up concentration camps and death panels. john boehner sarah palin and other top republicans were going on that show and validating this type of nonsense and they welcomed the tea party into their midst because they were votes and john boehner got elected house speaker because of tea party energy. it is a direct line from accepting it in 1964 to john boehner accepting the tea party in 2009 and 2010 to where we are today with donald trump saying to q, i am with you. host: first we have chuck in

georgia on the republican line. caller: good morning. you were talking about the republican party being crazy p me give you a few things that normal american people think are crazy. you want to open the border here in the president says the border is secure, which is a lie. you want to defund the police, most of them did. you want to know for criminals. you want to shut off american energy. you want to the irs running around with guns. you want abortion after nine months -- up to nine months, and you think republicans are crazy? look at that craziness going on. guest: it is sad for me to hear that because what we are talking about -- i will finish answering the question. a lot of what was just said there was disinformation. most democrats do not want to defund the police. there are some black lives

matter activists who did call for that, but most democrats do not do that. right now, you hear the republicans attacking the fbi and law enforcement and the trump supporters beat up cops. they beat up cops and now trump wants to part of the people who did that. so that is not true. the bill that was passed that gave the arts -- irs more money does not send the irs around with guns to knock down doors, even though republicans are saying that. no one wants to shut off american energy. biden is talking about transitioning to cleaner energy and having more energy. i do not know how to answer this. it does seem there is a conservative media echo system that puts out these memes and things. unfortunately, a lot of republicans and conservatives buy it and we cannot have a real

conversation, a real debate. it is not about defunding the police. we have instances of police brutality and how do we make the police better? how do we help the police officers who need training and make the systems work? how do we have an energy system with a mix of energies and move to clean energy? you cannot have that conversation if someone is out there saying you do not believe in having energy and all you want to do is defund the police. these are conservative talking points aimed at democrats to close debate. host: i'm glad you brought that up, because i wanted to ask you about concerns that disinformation or extremism makes it hard to govern, which i know is a point in your book. do you think that is the goal of it? do you think that is a byproduct? what you think is the solution? guest: we could spend a couple

hours on this. that is a great question. basically, i think disinformation is there primarily to help the person putting it out retain power. that is the first, whether it is vladimir putin or donald trump. that is the first reason people use disinformation. then it gets to the issue -- if disinformation is having a tremendous influence on our society overall, then it becomes harder to govern, to have the debates we need. i think there is an asymmetry in american politics. these are stereotypes, but in general democrats want to govern and legislate, look at our problems, and see what we can do together through the process of government to address these matters. a lot of republicans basically say, we do not want government. we want free market rule.

we do not want regulations when it comes to pollution or environmental regulations or labor standards. we want to get rid of all of that. we want to make government as slow as possible. you are on your own. let things happen. something that will lead to the best society. if you have a society that believes that, they have an incentive to dismiss and discredit government. they make it messy and ugly. that is great, because they do not want government to happen. so the democrats have this double burden of having honest, respectful debates and trying to get through policy solutions they want and you have some republicans, not all but some, saying, i just want to turn this into a mud fight. then people say washington cannot do anything and i win because i do not want washington to do anything.

host: let's go to rebecca in california on the independent line. caller: good morning, everyone. tia, i want to welcome you to washington journal. host: thank you. caller: i wanted to make a comment to david. the whole country is suffering from psychosis. it is not just the republicans. he has to admit that the democrats are equally psychotic. i know he is not going to want to hear this, but a trump ticket has a good chance of winning unless the democrats can throw a hail mary pass. trump has a real good chance of getting back in again. guest: ok. i'm not sure how independent she is, but nevertheless 1.i make in my book is i do not think the

democrats are equally psychotic. right now, you have a republican party that is endorsing and following the leadership of donald trump, who has just endorsed the qanon conspiracy theory, who promoted a big lie that the election was not legitimate and was stolen from him. that is the basis of when i say the republican party has gotten somewhat crazy. marjorie taylor greene meeting with nazis, white supremacists, and the party has not disavowed her or thrown her out. of course, she was using qanon theories before she got elected to the house of representatives. you cannot find democrats out there endorsing such extremism and using it as a fundamental platform to get elected, so i do not think -- you may not like their policies. you may think it is crazy to want to tax the wealthy and

defend clean energy, to give people parental leave from work, sick leave that is paid. you may think it is crazy to have dental coverage added to medicare. that is not the crazy i am talking about. i talking about a party that has moved behind leaders and ideas that are detached from reality and easy to disprove and impossible to prove. host: next we have peter in new jersey on the democratic line. you are on, peter. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i would like to air a theory i have had for some time. that is that democrats seem to be better educated than republicans and because they are better educated they are easier acclimated to the challenges of the 21st century than republicans are.

you can see that in the kind of specious logic used by a lot of trump supporters at these rallies. even in some of the media. what happens when you're not prepared to compete in the 21st century? you become frustrated with things you do not understand. [indiscernible] this is just a theory i have. the frustration of not be able to compete is a lot of the movement toward radicalism. i would like to know if you agree with that and where you stand on it.

guest: thanks, peter, from freehold, new jersey, the home of bruce springsteen. i think you brought up a lot of things that overlap. if we look at the essence of donald trump's movement, make america great again, it is in some ways america was once great and is no longer great. then you start thinking about what they mean by that. studies have shown a lot of concern that people had within his movement, his supporters, has to do with changes in the demographics of america, its racial component and maybe how it is becoming a more youth-oriented society and that that has caused some resentment and also maybe how we have become a more secular society as well, so there are factors out there that have triggered concern amongst millions of americans.

when donald trump comes along and says make america great again, the talc -- talk about a time when maybe it was not as great but was better for them or they think it was better for them. i do not know if it is associated that much with levels of education, but certainly trump at one point said, i lovely educated voters. if people are not paying close attention to facts and reality, it is easier to convince them of something that goes along with something they want to believe, so again i'm harkening back to qanon, but if you are a highly educated person you cannot truly believe that there is a setanta cabal -- satanic cabal of baby eating people running the world and that donald trump is about to be restored as president and there will be mass arrests and live on tv executions. in some degree, education does

play into this, but i think there might be deeper factors motivating people to believe in things i would say are crazy that they want to believe in. host: let's go to joe in tucson, arizona on the republican line. caller: let's talk about the big lie. you call yourself a journalist. you want to point out -- you want to point out the attack on the capital but you do not want to talk about the summer of love. you want to talk about all the police that got hurt but you do not want to talk about all the police that got hurt during the summer of love. let's talk about this oppressing of hunter biden's laptop. if you were a journalist, you would have brought that up and america would have known about it a long time ago but you guys repressed it. i call that a stolen election when you guys are suppressing information about the hunter biden laptop.

you guys called it false information. let me hear you now say that the first impeachment was based on a lie, sir. let me hear you say that the summer of love -- host: that will be enough from that caller. do you want to address anything he said? guest: it just makes me sad with this what about-ism. you talk about how donald trump claims to be elected president when he was not and insisted on that fraud and sent a crowd he knew was armed toward the capital and i think this is -- you can take away everything else, but if you envision that donald trump sat for hours in the white house while the capital was being attacked and a mob of his supporters that he

said go to the capital was trying to block the peaceful transfer of power and he did nothing, he did not pick up the phone, he did not call them to stop. he was commander-in-chief. it is his job to protect the country and constitution. he did nothing. i do not think in the history of presidents could you come up with a better example of the abandonment of duty. this caller, joe from tucson, does not want to talk about that. he does not want to talk about the attempt to overturn the election and to thwart the justice department. he wants to say, look at black lives matter protests. he wants to talk about hunter biden's laptop. we can have conversations about those things individually, but you will not talk about what donald trump did and what the republican party supports and

the use of violence for political means. whatever happened to black lives matter, it was not a plot. it was not something joe biden triggered to win an election or overturn an election. host: our next caller is terry on the independent line. caller: good morning current united states. i want to get on this guy here. the vice president and i do not know how many other democrats i have heard are liars. they say the border is closed and secure. over 2 million people have come across the border and you keep lying about it because they there is nobody coming. what a bunch of liars. host: let's go to guy in maryland on the democratic line. caller: good morning, c-span. there was another book released

the same day is yours. have you spoken to her fellow journalists -- your fellow journalist about the new book "fear"? guest: i saw it when it came out but he has been busy promoting his and i have been busy promoting "american psychosis." caller: i'm thinking from the title alone there will be some overlapping topics. you want to comment on white fear, the broad topic? guest: i have not read his book because i have been busy finishing mine and promoting mine. i assume he has not gotten to mine either. one thing i do talk about in the thing i do talk about in the book, i trace the seven decades of the gop encouraging and exploding extremism. as part of that i include racism.

i include the story in 1968 when richard nixon was trying to get the presidential nomination and he was worried about this guy named ronald reagan who had just been elected governor of california who was running a sort of stealth campaign for the presidential nomination. richard nixon, who in years previous had been a supporter of their publican party's relationship with black voters because black voters had been with the republicans for many years because of the legacy of lincoln and the democrats in the south often allied with segregationists up to that point in time. in 68 nixon flips the switch and turns the tables and he cuts a deal with strom thurmond who is a segregationist white supremacist senator from south carolina and he basically notes to strom thurmond i will point conservative judges, oppose busing and make sure the over --

the vice president's running mate is acceptable to southern republicans, meaning -- if you support me against ronald reagan. and strom thurmond took that deal and nixon told his campaign manager at the time to make sure the seven delegates of the convention got the message under nixon presidency, these are his words, there would be no more prone eager --. here's a guy instead of making egl -- a deal, he was making a deal with racists. i noted the republican party has made similar accommodations and of turned a blind eye, they accepted donald trump, birth tourism that he was pushing that barack obama was not born in this country.

i believe was a racist conspiracy theory. having not read roland's book, i would say the notion i described , of a publican attraction with extremism and republican exploitation of racism. host: let's talk now to karen in alabaster, alabama on the republican line. caller: good morning. i'll talk about january 6. not once did president trump say go into the capital and try to take over your the process pretty never said that. if you look on the video, capitol police inviting people into the capital. they invited them into it and there some people have been acquitted because they said they invited us in. but to this day what you neglect to include is in 2016 of the

democrats said president trump wasn't duly elected. hillary clinton will say that was stolen from her by the russians. she was the one who started that whole thing and worked with the fbi to take trump out. guest: i didn't expect to feel sad this morning is much as i do. the amount of justification one has to engage in to look at what happened at the capitol and to absolve trump of responsibility. he was told the crowd was armed, he knew the crowd was angry. he sent the angry mob crowd to the capitol and did nothing when he saw the beating, over 100 law enforcement officers. these people say they are in

favor of cops. i don't understand how they can look at those pictures and say no big deal. it is stunning to me. these officers did not invite them in. they went over gates, the use flags as battering rams to get past the officers. they were not invited in. i don't know how you can look at the video of that in the new york times today great 40 minute long encapsulation in the document is that have come up since. we see the imagery and every time i see it i feel enraged that they thought they were empowered to do this. donald trump sent them there. he did nothing. i don't know what else she said. there was no -- nobody in 2016 and the democratic leadership who said they wouldn't accept the results. they thought there was branch -- russian intervention putting a thumb on the scale for donald trump that had an impact.

hillary clinton did not tell people to overthrow the government, did not plot to undo this and a final point of disinformation. the fbi investigation according to the justice department's own inspector general was not triggered by democrats or hillary clinton, it was started legitimately. this with the ig report says. i don't know how we can have conversations if basic facts are denied or twisted. host: i heard you say you feel sad this morning. we have a lot of our conservative callers who clearly are, i think feeling defensive and also i wanted to ask you, your title alone is very provocative. my question is what did you hope

the book did, what do you want people to get out of it and we know there is a lot of misinformation and disinformation from conservative media, what is the remedy for that? host: i think a lot about that -- guest: i think a lot about that. people at the caller we just had , there's enough misinformation or disinformation out there. right wing or conspiratorial websites, they can look at and read and a lot of it comes through fox news to be honest. and they have enough to reinforce what it is they want to believe. so the book for me, an article in the new york times or washington post or something in the local paper is not to change their mind.

so i think they are a minority in this country sorry to say. if you look at the polling information, most people don't believe the election was stolen from donald trump. so i think the rest of the country has to sort of band together and say we cannot reach some of these people. they want to have a legitimate conversation we are happy to engage with that but if they're going to stick to the talking points about the big lie and just by trump's acceptance on the use of violence and trump saying he would pardon the people who beat up the cops, they are going to accept that i think working after say to a certain degree you are not part of the conversation anymore. and that's a sad thing, tough thing to say. but i don't know how you gently deal with this. i don't know how you gently deal with an ex-president who wants

to be president again and who doesn't respect our fundamental democratic norms and processes. i think at some point this is moving toward semi fascism. i think he's being honest and i know he's going to infuriate some of the callers calling in that they have bought a line that is dangerous for america and it's up to the rest of the nation to make that clear. host: we are talking with mother jones washington bureau chief about his book american psychosis. we are taking more of your calls. democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans 202-748-8001. independents 202-748-8002. our next caller is peyton in

springfield new hampshire on the democratic line. caller: thanks very much for having me. i think you are terrific. when i look at this i think this vein of what you're describing runs back to barry goldwater, jim crow and probably are -- probably earlier. i think trump isn't the problem, he's a symptom and sort of shouting for the rooftop at republicans of been whispering for a long time and his when you way forward that's dangerous. january 6, that was not just a moment in time but that was the plan for months. the january 6 committee

describes that where there's a lot of leverage plays on secretaries of state. but for a few of those holdings we might have had a different conversation here. i think the way forward has been charged on the right and i think it's dangerous territory. we need to get active to counter that. guest: thank you. i think you are right that a lot -- some of trump big lie opponents learned a bit of a lesson in the postelection which we need to be in control of the vote certification systems so that if we don't like the way the vote goes, if we think there was something wrong even if there's no evidence, we can do something about it. you have dug mastery anna who is for governor in pennsylvania and he will appoint the secretary of state of that state if he's elected. he will have the power to certify or not certify

elections. arizona you have mark who is a big lie conspiratorial is running for secretary of state. you have other people in a like-minded way running for state positions across the country. they want to gain control so if they think or if fox news or newsmax comes out and says this election was stolen, they can get in -- they can block certification. this is incredibly dangerous because instead of fighting over what's the best way to deal with our energy needs, our economy we will be fighting over who won elections. and one side has reached the conclusion that if it feels in election one stolen -- was stolen, then it was stolen and they don't have to abide by it. but we can have a country with

differing points of view. with sometimes profound differences if we can sort of legislate them or debate them and process them through the electoral system. you are right ultimately, the problem is not donald trump, the problem is trumpism. he is one guy. he is a blowhard, a great marketer. he is one person bring the real problem is there are tens of millions of americans who by what he says when he says something that's not true. there are many deep roots to that but that's the issue, the fact that what he says people follow and that's a much harder issue to remedy. host: let's hear now from james in collins, mississippi on the independent line. caller: ♪ good men -- caller:

good morning. i understand what you are saying when republicans call in and talk about the black lives matter in the chocolate hillary clinton. president trump -- black lives matter and the -- they talk about hillary clinton. beep -- poor white people of been abused and the own -- black people have only been saved by cameras. if they came out in the 80's you would have them. but you didn't have people pressing record on the violence that was happening back then. it was not the politicians of the government the caused them

to look. it was a 17-year-old girl. and now it's not even donald trump. it's the politicians that support him, the mccarthys, what's his name, from south carolina. lindsey graham. all those people. it's the politicians that are supporting this man and it's about to happen that shouldn't happen because nobody is -- every republican and every democrat, releasing that information about bar and what they did in the doj about being corrupt.

they need to call barr in and talk about that release of information because that's the problem. women need to stand up and let them know that their bodies, their daughters bodies. i look at queen elizabeth when she passed you got more women now emboldened because this woman even though she was over there is a queen, she was still a woman and she had control over her body and she did the right thing so i'm saying women need to stand up and speak up. host: got your point. let's hear now from chuck in syracuse, new york. republican line. caller: it's unfortunate that mr. corn is can a talk about other people's psychosis and misconduct.

vox.com is not a conservative news site. they quoted a former mother jones sat -- staffer. some staffers reported there were questionable stories because reactions made them so uncomfortable. he was also a frequent guest on msnbc, chris matthews. remember what happened to chris matthews. host: did you want to respond to that? guest: there was a story years ago that was all resolved so there was nothing to it. host: shary in calabash north carolina on the democrats line. caller: thanks for writing that book, it's great. i can't wait to read it. i wish it but that man's picture on the front but that's all right. i'll put a sticker over it or

something. i agree with everything you had to say and it's a shame republicans have to act this way. i live in a very conservative southern state. it's something i chose to do but i don't think trump is can a be able to run because he's good to be arrested for what all he's been doing. that's all i have to say. guest: one thing that's if interest to me not as a related to the book. how you see republicans and conservatives who chanted lock her up about hillary clinton and her mishandling of emails when she was secretary of state turning to complete blind eye to what donald trump did with classified documents. you couldn't write this stuff because it's so ridiculous.

at the end of the day there was no evidence hillary clinton compromise security, i wrote about this at the time. compromising that there's no evidence of being compromised. donald trump taking records that are not his and when asked about it by the national archives and the fbi, giving some back and saying all are given back when not all are given back. if he left the oval office with the resolute desk and took it down to mar-a-lago. in the justice department and fbi knocked on the door for the desk back and he said no i'm knocking to give it to you, there would be no question. there's no executive privilege

that covers the theft of government material with roots desk or papers. this is one sign the republican party has bent its knee, lost any sense of self-awareness or self regard, self-esteem because they'll know this is incredibly wrong and dangerous. one republican caller will get on their high horse about that and say this is worse than what we accuse hillary clinton of. host: let's take another caller. philadelphia, pennsylvania calling on the independent line. caller: i agree with everything saying. this is not a new phenomenon, this phenomenon has happened all throughout history thousands of times.

the nazis are probably the most recent example but most people are familiar with. pol pot said the same things. dutere said the same things. bolsonaro in brazil says the same things. this isn't anything new. i live in mexico, the reason i live in mexico. i left the moment they installed pumpkin head in the office. i know this stuff never ends well. ends up with millions of innocent people getting killed and the people who started it never learned a thing and they do it again. i'll hear what you have to say. guest: i wanted to at least talk about the history here in america of a political party playing with fire, playing with extremism.

we do see with donald trump he adds to that. he adds this creeping authoritarianism. i wrote about in my previous book, and admiration of vladimir putin. his admiration of dutere in the philippines. and bolsonaro. he is a guy who has said again and again the state is me. someone who doesn't respect democracy, who wants to install some degree of authoritarian. who wants to delegitimize election and then promote basic conspiracy theories which comes down to demonizing and dehumanizing the opposition. in the opposition is in people who are wrong when it comes to policy matters.

when he is talking about qanon. this goes back to mccarthyism, people who are plotting against america internally. now they're adding to it saying their satanic, cannibalistic. so you put all of this together. i do think it's a very troubling peru. but i'm optimistic there are still more americans, a lot more americans who don't go along with this into you do not buy this. and if they can see this for what it is, they can stop it and prevent it from happening. but i do believe it is a crisis and it's not -- there's not enough americans who fully understand it yet. host: let's go to sean in gainesville, new york on the republican line. caller: good morning to both of

you. guest: good morning. caller: do i agree with what you're saying? not in the least. but i support your right to say it. i have to give you a lot of credit for following radicals because what they do is they accuse others of what they're guilty of. when it comes to groups. guest: can i interrupt to ask you a question host: david wants to ask you a question but. guest: a nice trick of accusing me of making false accusations. can you point out something i've written in my book online that is demonstrably untrue? host: can i finish -- caller: can i finish my statement? guest: just wanted to give you the opportunity. caller: i would like to urge all my fellow americans or the democrats, republicans, to watch a documentary. host: let's go next to john in

roswell, new mexico. john is calling as a democrat. >> -- first thing i'd like to say, the so-called heritage -- foundation there is no scenario on their. all you have to do -- host: our next caller is edward in keyport, new jersey.

>> i would think psychosis is the perfect word to use for this. you try to question them about simple things and it's a bridge too far for them. as the vitriol reactions and the public sphere and want to add i want to celebrate harris jones and all she gave us and the reason why we have minimum wages because of american socialism and things of that nature. the only difference -- thank you, you do great work. guest: thanks, edward. that's really interesting point. whether this acceptance of conspiracy theory on the trump ian wright has something to do

with generational politics. he does do better with older and whiter voters and that's pretty clear. and if you go to his rallies they tend to be older than you would see certainly at barack obama rallies or some joe biden rallies. i haven't really thought that much about it. if this is age dependent, that the boomers feeling the loss of power to the generations beyond them. and lashing -- latching onto them. to gain some understanding of that. it could be affecting some. i will say at some of these rallies there are people who are not that old but again younger voters tend to skew a little bit more towards democrats.

i have to think some more about that. it's an instant connection to look at. >> caller: sir. you made a couple of false statements on there. how about roy moore, how the nick sandmann being racist and child molesters. you want to talk about false information. you spread a lot of false information. guest: can you give me an example? caller: you called roy moore a child molester but i believe he won $8 million proving he wasn't. how about nick sandmann. you called him a racist.

host: the young man from kentucky. guest: i didn't say anything about him. i do not know what you're talking about. roy moore i would commend people to read the washington post reporting on him. it's very solid about his inappropriate actions and the accusations made against him about his engagements with young women and teenage women. i didn't report on that. host: any closing thoughts as we wrap up. this really interesting segment. >> i really wish we could have -- with republicans. i've been with seat -- here since 1987. it's really ancient have an open conversation with politics, policy but it seems to me republicans in the grasp of

being held being frozen by donald trump and the big lie. and nothing else matters. and they can't get past that. you can talk about the weather when one side says the skies green and one side says the sky is blue. it pains me to see that but they are so dug in deep with this and the republican which had a chance after january 6, connellan kevin mccarthy spoke out about this. for about five nano seconds and they made the calculation that the base of the party would not go along with that. and raising money they had to give up their criticisms. they had a moment to break away but instead were more entrenched and that's sad to me. one of the reasons i think we got here is the dark side of gop

, i hope people pick it up and read it and they will subscribe to the newsletter because i think these are the conversations we need to continue to have. >> thank you so much for joining us this morning. we've been talking with david corn. the name of his new book is american psychosis, a historical investigation into how their publican party went crazy. that will be all today from washington journal. we will be back tomorrow at 7:00 a.m.. have a great day. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2022]

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