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national energy assistance directors association. can you describe your organization's work? guest: the national energy assistance directors association runs the largest federal program designed to help low income families and will ruto families pay their home energy bills in the winter, as well as other things. host: as far as their demands, what does winter mean as far as paying bills? guest: it is extremely expensive, pedro. paying bills can be extremely expensive, and we have seen that the average cost of home energy this winter will actually be 17% to 20% higher than last year. that means a family using natural gas, for example of a spend over $900 to heat their home.

a family using heating oil will spend over $2000. it's a lot of money over the course of the winter. host: $952 is the average for those using natural gas, that's an increase of 2021 to 2020 two. electricity, $1300, and heating oil, $2100. propane, $1800, and although you'll cost together, at $1200 increase compared to what we saw in 2021. where are those numbers coming from and what is causing them? guest: one of the things causing them was the high cost of cooling last summer. to help cool their homes, they had to draw down supplies of natural gas. during the summer as well as during the winter, the use heat their homes in the winter roads about --50% of homes use

natural gas, and it's very high, higher in the last 12 to 15 years. that's amplified by war in ukraine, because there is not much we can export, but it still adds pressure here. host: if that's the case and there are higher prices, what's the demand on the program and what can they meet during these times? guest: we are extremely worried. we only have enough funding to help one out of six eligible households. but i heard that congress and continuing resolutions added an extra 100 billion dollars, which will help a lot. we have an extra $5 billion, but are not only worried about heating, but other programs. you had two years now a very, very hot temperatures in the summer, but that's the normal. we don't have enough money to

help this weight heating and cooling bills. the long-term concern is that we don't have enough money to help and families are struggling to pay these bills. host: what about those who receive assistance? what determines who gets that? guest: it's not an entitlement, it's a first-come, first-served program. but we have three priorities. families who are elderly, england over the age of 60, or if they have young children. those are high-priority households. we also look at, are they behind on their energy bill, anything that helps keep them connected. although they have enough money to help, these are some of the most vulnerable families. our concern, people who were able to pay their home energy bil last yearl or year before

will not be able to. this is because of inflation across things like food, rent. families are being used. one of the major concerns is the enhanced child tax credit, which provided more payments to low income families. that ended in december, so that is taking away a resource. host: you said 50% of homes heat their homes of natural gas. 50 million plus in the united states when it comes to electricity. 42% of homes, 5 million depending on heating costs, 6 million homes depending on propane. natural gas is the driver as far as the capability of producing natural gas -- what does it compare to those using it to heat homes? >> natural gas production decline during the pandemic. it's not so much the production,

it's because we had such a hot summer. that used up a lot of reserves. the other thing you have to remember, the price of heating that natural gas and electricity depends on where you live. the northeast, its primary natural gas that generates electricity. at last, it's hyper. that doesn't change the price -- it's hydro out west. that doesn't change the price. there are some press releases from utilities in the northeast that talk about 40%, 50% increases, so higher than the national average. across the country, it's potentially a very serious problem now developing. now, it's still september, so prices could change in a few more days. see natural gas rollout of the love from the reserve, but we don't know. part of what we are thinking

congress is, both. as we go forward, the year from this point, all signs look toward very high prices. we need to prepare for that rather than in february, being out of money. that was a concern. some people turned down the heat to low and the price increased, health issues. we don't want to see that happen. host: we have divided the line differently, particularly those who believe this is an economical point of view. call (202) 748-8000 if you make up to 65,000 dollars, and if you make over $65,000, (202) 748-8001. what defines income in this program? guest: states have considerable discretion, but most families

get energy assistance at less than $35,000 a year. host: we saw this as part of the pandemic. how much of it is still in existence? guest: we received an extra $4.5 billion to help families hundred the 3.8 billion in appropriations. that will be used up by the end of this month, so we are concerned that the environment has not really changed that much. the amount of money they have to work with will be considerably lower. host: which will impact the helping of one out of six, i imagine. host: no, we have enough to help one out of six, but applications are going up. people are worried. host: if you look at other

events happening in the united states, we are seeing prices for gasoline go down, and you're still seeing these home heating prices rise. what's with that disparity? guest: natural gas is separate from heating oil. they are different fuels and not priced the same. natural gas skyrocketed primarily because of supply. heating oil, oil supplies have gone up and they track global prices for petroleum where natural gas is more to muster be priced. that's the difference we are seeing. i think the thing people don't often recognize, we are coming off a very, very hot summer. many people have much higher cooling bills than they had last year. some fell behind on payment of bills, on top of all debts,

which utility bills almost doubled in fact, through the pandemic. but we could have is, in some ways, the worst of all worlds. it's close to 16 billion now, and those numbers could go out. that's why we asked congress for more funding. we are looking at a situation that is just unaffordable, because families can't plan worse. the little problems like supply -- you can plan based on what you know. what we know, we had 5, 6, 7 years of very cheap energy and it ended last year. what we are worried about, lower income, even for the link on families, their budgets have been squeezed. we are now going into a winter

with more increases. that's why we asked congress for more funding. as mentioned, we are seeing a lot of work thinking about how the nation can address temperatures and climate conditions. what's the strategy to help families have access to affordable pooling, and in the context of not often making the environment worse? the more temperatures rise, we have a considerable problem there. part of what we do as an organization is think about how to do things in the most energy efficient way possible. that's important, because otherwise you see more in emissions, higher prices, all the things that work to the detriment of families. host: mark wolfe in this

conversation. we will start off hearing from him, the line under $45,000. go ahead. caller: democrats in washington, d.c., they have owned it because of energy and everything, and hopefully with the money and greed and power they want to bear, we can change things since november. thanks for taking my call. guest: well, thanks for your question. one thing that's difficult for democrats and republicans on this issue, the federal government does not control energy prices. even though, for example, the president wanted to push down the price of oil, he has limited tools. in the case of natural gas, the president has no tools. does not control the price of natural gas or propane.

as we go into this winter, the only solution i can see right now, we need additional federal funding to help the most vulnerable families in our country pay these high bills until supply increases, prices come down -- it looks like we are heading towards a recession. whatever it is, we have to help families get through this winter. host: our next caller in florida. hi. caller: hello, pedro. how are you, sir. host: i'm fine, go ahead. caller: mr. wolfe, how are you, sir? guest: i'm fine, go ahead. caller: my question is specifically about natural gas and propane. people were frantic about why it was so high in the summer and how can we sit? to pay in the wintertime of natural gas and propane? how can democrats and republicans fix that kind of problem so we can afford it?

guest: the best solution is efficiency. at the end of the day, the amount of money you spend heating your home with natural gas and electricity depends on the price of the fuel, so there is an effort to increase efficiency homes, especially lower income homes. the inflation reduction act included $900 billion for residential efficiency. at the end of the day, the less energy we use, the less demand there will be for the fuel and the lower the vices. host: this is a viewer on our twitter feed, asking how many homes are truly energy-efficient ? guest: that's a very good

question. i don't have an exact number -- my sense is that it varies across the country. california, massachusetts, new york have active programs where families can retrofit their homes. you see some other states to guarantees, for example, utilities in illinois that provide low-cost and in some cases free audits for families to do thermal imaging. others, improvements. what i think the important thing is, we need a national campaign to do this. we need a systematic roach to look at every home, look at every way people can do cost-effective improvements, and pay for it. that's another way to reduce demand. help people retrofit their homes and reduce energy demand. in the short run, we have these bills that have to be paid. host: from virginia, this is

carrie. you are next. caller: hi, this is the first time i am getting through and calling. i have been watching you since the 1980's. i love your show and thank you for having this question on. i am aware that one of the biggest problems is that a lot of the new energy-efficient techniques, i wouldn't say they are that new, but more modern techniques, like adding solar and wind to areas only lessons the bills by a certain percent. poor people can't do things for their homes or afford these technologies. but if you have a community that's living near a windfarm or a solar area that's available to add into the public, or a

nuclear facility, how much is that going to affect the price of the fuel and cost of energy if those things are affecting this situation? guest: that's a good question. there are long-term solutions and short-term solutions. long-term solutions are making solar more accessible to households, increasing the use of wind. nuclear is a mixed bag because of the cost -- it's very expensive and there are safety issues, but that also applies to large-scale hydro. there are questions about the impact on the environment of creasing the use of hydro -- of increasing the use of hydro facilities. the biggest thing we can do is low-cost improvements.

adding installations to people's homes, looking for leaks in the doors and the windows, turning on the thermostat at night. those are short-term solutions that could help families get through this winter, but the long-term solutions are thinking about shifting away from fossil fuels, which are very volatile on the pricing and it makes it difficult for families to plan for the winter when you don't know what it is going to cost. even when we did our estimates, these were a week ago, and i was looking at the underlying fuel sources, supply and demand, and this is the first year in five or six years that i came up with several options of well, if this happens, this is the price. it's very difficult in this volatile situation for regular families to plan for this winter. host: this is a viewer off of twitter. lynn