news of the day. then musician, author, and activist daryl davis on his efforts to combat racism in the u.s.. later, mia bloom talks about the impact of qanon and conspiracy theories on politics. "washington journal" is next. host: this is the washington journal for october 10. in recent days, the biden administration has faced several situations dealing with oil. opec plus announced cuts to production. there are reports the administration as may be looking to venezuela for crude oil supplies. the administration is advocating for the use of less oil via clean energy policies. tell us what you think about the biden administration's approach

and whether you support or oppose those policies. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. independents, (202) 748-8002. if you wish, you can text us this morning at (202) 748-8003. post on facebook and on twitter and follow the show on instagram. a piece in the washington post taking a look at the ministration's -- administration's approach to oil production goes as follows, saying president biden has been attempting to pull off a difficult balancing act that can be summed up. his green agenda seeks to curb oil demand over time. there's also a need to maintain supply of the energy real -- we rely on. contradictions abound. the president has launched verbal volleys at the oil

industry for profiteering but has also sought to increase production as he tries to foster a switch to electric vehicles. there's also something weird about refilling the strategic petroleum reserve with oil. on that point, it adds that clearview energy partners have a desire to make -- may make it is will to take the politically useful convoluted approach. you've probably heard about the decision of opec plus countries to slow down production. the insider takes a look at what might result of the united states saying u.s. gas prices are primed to keep climbing after that the u.s. fuel market already suffers from maintenance outages at key refining hubs, especially in california, and increasing gas demand contributes to rising gas prices

. the u.s. average for gasoline per gallon is $3.80. when it comes oil production in the united states, particularly with the biden administration approach to it, (202) 748-8001 for republicans. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. independents, (202) 748-8002 you can text us at (202) 748-8003. on the sunday show yesterday -- sunday shows yesterday, it was questions about the opec plus decision posed to chris murphy. he was on the sunday shows talking about the decision and impact it had in the united states and on the biden administration. here's a portion of that from yesterday. >> what do you want to see president biden do? >> we sell massive amounts of arms to the saudi's. we need to rethink those sales.

we need to lift the exemption we have given this opec plus cartel from u.s. price-fixing liability. we need to look at our troop presence in the middle east and saudi arabia. for years, we have looked the other way and saudi arabia has chopped up journalists, engaged in massive political oppression for one reason. we want to know when the chips were down, when there was a global crisis, that the saudi's would choose us instead of russia. they did not appear they chose russia. they chose to back up the russians, backup oil -- drive up oil prices, which could fracture our ukraine coalition. there has to be consequences for that. whether it is lifting cartel immunity or rethinking troop presence and our security relationship, i think it is time to admit the saudis are not looking out for us. >> it has been three months since president biden met with

the saudi premised or the president is defending that meeting commencing was not just about -- meeting, saying it was not just about oil. did president biden get played? >> i do not have any problem with american presidents meeting with our friends were adversaries. it is clear right now the relationship is broken. it has been broken under democratic presidents and republican presidents. i am never going to criticize an american president for meeting with another leader. it is clear we did not get as much as we needed to out of that meeting. host: senator murphy from yesterday on cnn. this is sean off of twitter, saying, we need to stop begging saudi arabia and venezuela for oil. and then terry gonzalez from facebook saying, thank god for the president. the oil situation is beyond his control.

another reason to seek alternative energy sources. too bad we did not stay on the course jimmy carter had us on and we would be independent from fossil fuels. that is just the responses on social media. starting us off in pennsylvania, independent line. the administration's approach to oil production in the u.s.. nolan, go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call and happy indigenous peoples' day. i live not far from an oil pipeline. one of the things i want to discuss is it is very important for us as classified american indians. we do have mineral rights is one of the main things that the administration could take heed to. i'm asking that all folks go to

the urban indian heritage society to share our position. in terms of the biden administration, one of the campaign promises we were promised as americans is that this would be a supplementary energy transfer. we feel as though those classified as american indians need to be at the table when making those decisions, whether that be the biden administration or another administration in 2024. host: that is nolan in pennsylvania. let's hear from council bluffs, iowa, republican line. caller: good morning, america. how many americans know that the strategic oil reserve -- biden shipped a much of that over to china? as far as the saudis go, after biden completely called them

names, cut up the saudis, the first family, he went over and did the fist bump. he got taken over there. the saudis were our allies and now biden is forcing them to go to china. what the saudis did when he went over there and crawled in bed for oil, they give him the middle finger -- crawled and begged for oil, they gave him the middle finger, just what he deserves. the worst president in history. host: the roll call reports a story when it comes to oil and gas and the actions of the administration, saying in order to apply with a law signed in august they announced they would move forward with onshore and offshore federal oil and gas sales. at the behest of joe manchin, it included provisions that require the interior department to conduct offshore leashes -- lee

says it had canceled and specified land can only be leased for renewable energy development if a certain acreage was offered for oil and gas leasing. for onshore leasing, the bureau of land management will scope for his next sale in new mexico and miami -- wyoming. the law includes changes such as increasing the minimum royalty rate, assessing the fee for filing, and eliminating noncompetitive leasing. there is a link to the story on roll call hearing getting your thoughts this morning, helen is in long beach, california. independent line. caller: i live in long beach on the coast. underneath my feet is an oilfield that would supply all the oil for california. it is only about two square miles wide. there are numerous oilfields in

california that are the same size and they are always pumping oil. i have seen them pump oil for many decades. i am stunned when they say and oil shortage and we need to negotiate with other countries and refineries are shutting down because when i go to work i must pass about three or four refineries out there operating. they are always operating. there is plenty of oil in the united states, and california. there is not fossil fuel. it is not limited. that was a misnomer created to convince people it was a limited resource and they had to pay whatever they had to to get it. these have been pumping for 100 years. i point is why don't we just -- if energy is so important to esther biden, why dozen t -- here's a radical step. maybe nationalized -- oil

production? as i'm standing on an oilfield pumping seven dollar gas into my car, i do not understand why it is so expensive. host: that is helen in long beach, california and california's governor sending out a tweet on the seventh of october saying, i am calling for a special session to address the greed of oil companies. gas prices are too high. time to enact a profit tax directly on oil companies that are ripping you off at the pump. that is from his twitter feed. when it comes to california, and insider speech talks -- peace talks about issues on the west coast. roughly six refineries are undergoing maintenance or experiencing outages per aaa, but weakness in the oil refinery

industry is nothing new, with goldman sachs previously highlighting unprecedented bottlenecks met world refineries were crude oral is converted to gas, largely due to the impact of the coronavirus pandemic -- crude oil is converted to gas got largely due to the impact of the coronavirus pandemic. larry on our democrat line. caller: first, understand this is not a new problem. this is a problem that has been going on for decades. we understand things increase. prices are going to go up. the problem we are having is some prices have gone up out of range of what you would call a normal escalation coming on by

the fact that people need to be able to get their profits. you do not need that kind of profits, six and seven dollars. i am trying to be polite with this. the bottom line is it was republicans and democrats that put these problems because they did not want to think that people would gouge them. . host: do you think that action by the biden administration has contributed to that? caller: now. i believe the fact that biden and trump and other democrats and republicans turned a blind eye to some of these things and now they're out of hand.

host: larry in kentucky. one of the people disagreeing with larry is mike pompeo, talking about the opec decisions. here's what he had to say. [video clip] >> joe biden is directly responsible for the place the world finds itself in energy. the progressive left, 25 years of thinking you are going to run the world of sunshine and windmills. we have the capacity for self-help in the united states to improve not only refineries but we shut down the pipeline. we have made it hard to permit. we have rules that deny the capacity to get american energy out of american ground for american consumers. to point the saudi -- to point the finger at opec or the saudis is a mistake when america can provide energy for the world. host: -- >> one of the top democrats in

the senate tweeted, from unanswered questions about 9/11 to conspiring with putin, the royal saudi family has never been a trustworthy ally of our nation. it is time for foreign policy to imagine a world without their alliance. we remember during the campaign president biden said they were a pariah and he would not meet with the crown prince. in july, he was over there fist bumping with the crown prince. where does the relationship with the saudis stand? >> this is about putting the american people forced -- first. that means a deep relationship with the kingdom of saudi arabia as we have had for decades. we had friends in the golf -- gulf. we made america safer and less likely that american kids would have to fight and die in that place again. they have been an important security partner and the biden administration has the wrong end of the stick.

they want to cozy up to the iranians instead of having good security partners in the region. this is a real risk to the american people. host: mark johnson says the president could have the answer to inflation and putin with greatly increased domestic production. we should be producing oil for us and our allies until more infrastructure is in place for the electric future. electric is not the only tool in the shed. exploration into safer petroleum alternatives should be pursued. steve off of twitter says if the united states government allows domestic oil production it must be permitted to put that oil at all in the global market. that will mean cheap gasoline. in alexandria, virginia, republican line. caller: i think it is fitting that we are discussing this on indigenous peoples' day. there is plenty of oil in the united states, as the last young

lady was speaking about. there is plenty of oil to go around. a lot of it is on land that is not in the direct ownership of the united states government. this land is owned by the american indians. this goes back to what the first gentleman who came on was talking about. the urban indian heritage society. we are looking at misclassification and making sure the people of this country know who the property owners are so we can come back and help. you need to have the owners of these oilfields making these decisions. the reason we are going to other countries is because we are not dealing with the american indians. it is time to deal with the american indians. if we can deal with the american indians, we can get the oil that is needed to supply the country. the urban indian heritage

society, we need you guys to sign the petition and look into the fact that if you're going to regain the oil in the united states you have to deal with the land owner. host: you made that point. we will go on to patrick, independent line. caller: thanks for taking my call. a few things about history. whoever thought the saudi's were our friends when they let the oil embargo in the israeli arab war when iran cut the oil off after the second takeover -- c-span never mentioned that. they asked us to do two things. do not assist the shah. we did, who murdered tens of thousands of iranians. we did and we got the iranian oil embargo.

reagan with hat -- went hat in hand to the saudis and said pump more oil and we will put our troops in your country to protect your corrupt society. south carolina, georgia, florida has fought. no drilling off their coast. kurdistan used to be part of iraq and we let break off which meant -- made the kurds mad. it is now a war between turkey, syria, and iran. good call on that. nobody calls for ridesharing or take mass transit or nothing. just a few facts as i know c-span has an on record --

unbiased record of government. what a joke. host: we will go to indianapolis , democrats line. caller: the government -- we should not increase our leases at this time. the oil companies -- yes, the palms are continuing to operate. my family, we have oil leases. for the past several years, we have not had our profits increase. police -- the oil companies have record profits, so we have tons of oil here now. the companies have record profits. it does not make any sense. however, the lease owners' profits are increasing. you have no way of knowing what is going on underneath the ground. there are many making profits and none of the lease owners have anything on what is going

on or what comes through your palms and your -- pumps and/or checks are not increasing. we should not get increases -- and your checks are not increasing. we should not get increases. caller: i totally disagree with the previous caller. i believe we must increase leases and also increase -- i want to give a big shout out to mike pompeo. there's not much i can add to that because he was spot on and what he was saying. the biden administration killed to the keystone pipeline -- killed the keystone pipeline. we were energy independent under trump. we were energy independent and selling energy to others. there was no question about that. look where we are at now. host: that is ray in elizabeth

city. yahoo! news looks at the strategic petroleum reserve. recent actions by the biden administration on that, saying in an effort to counter rising prices the president plans to plunder the country's oil piggy bank. the department of energy will deliver 10 million barrels. it was established in case of a severe oil supply crisis. the decision comes after the opec plus countries say it would/-- it would slash that production by 2 million barrels a day. experts have concerns about the long-term implications. we are talking about the united states and the biden administration's approach to oil production, and part because of the decision by the opec countries. other factors there as well. you can let us know what you think. (202) 748-8001 for republicans.

(202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 748-8002 for independents. let's hear from randy in michigan got democrats line. caller: good morning. i would like to thank you and all the other men and women it takes to bring us this great program. you are doing a great service for the nation. we need to get a hold of venezuela. we deal with china and russia so we control all that while he has human rights problems and all these problems because we deal with people that are the problem in this country. the saudi's, the chinese, the russians. so we can get the high moral ground we seem to want to play with. another thing that seems interesting to me is we were oil independent under the previous president but than the next thing out of their mouth is we were selling it. so we were -- what are we doing?

oil is not reproduced overnight in the ground. it takes millions of years. if you want to be oil independent, what are you doing selling it? it seems to me the real holdup is in the refinery area. we keep having refineries conveniently going off-line right at the worst time. it is amazing. but i think the oil reserve -- i do not quite agree with that one with our current president because that is something we need. to say we are not going to use oil because of some phony reason called human rights -- we do not have a leg to stand on their because we deal with people every day that our worse to human rights. host: reuters, another source, takes a look at the idea of

energy independence, saying it is true that imports of petroleum, including refined petroleum products, decrease in 2020, the last year of president trump's term. in 2016, the former president barack obama's last year, the u.s. imported more -- exported more than imported. contrary to what some interpret as energy independence when it comes to commodities traded in international markets, the u.s. is not immune to worldwide effects and even is a net exporter. when oil production was on the upswing, country pump prices raised to record highs. for andrew campbell at berkeley, saying that energy independence is a liberal slogan, not an

economic or technical concept with a clear definition often used by politicians to imply the country is isolated from global energy markets. other pieces have taken the idea of energy independence. you can probably make your own determinations from that. in california, republican line. caller: i am calling from california. i am always trying to say this respectfully, but the biden administration -- around something we should have a hold of. the last administration was trying to make us more independent from other countries as far as oil is concerned. i am not pleased with the biden administration, especially the way they handle american indian affairs. i do want to make clear that we have a petition that will give us a voice. please sign the petition.

host: this is james in louisiana, independent line. caller: lot -- like a lot of listeners come i want to thank you for giving us a voice and an opportunity. we seem to equate the word energy with oil and change. any change usually is hard to take, even if it is good change. if you get married tomorrow, you would be apprehensive. we are going through a change in energy policy. that means diversity. that means to be able to be a good student to ration our resources. energy is not oil. it is, but it is not the only energy we need. we need to look at this come principally and the more oil we

use the more we poison our planet. there was a community that survived very well in florida through this last hurricane because they built, according to -- they built well and they thought about everything that needed to be considered, including climate change. the big picture. we are not looking at the big picture. when we see energy, we think of oil, and that is not the only energy available to us. let's diversify and trust this man to help us go through change. host: that is james in louisiana. this is james in north carolina, democrats line. caller: i am amazed sometimes. you just read a statement that said under obama we were in

exporter and as soonest trump got in we were an importer. you just read the statement, but i doubt if 90% of the audience herded it or understood it. the thing that really gets me is we just went through a phase where jared just got a contract working for the saudi's. trump organized a golf tournament around saudi's. and that reduction is not even going to happen until about november, yet still the prices are skyrocketing now. the american press and politicians try to create a problem when there is no problem. i am watching jared kushner get

this multi your contract and we are supposed to act as though trump has nothing to say about our current administration that they hate. i will leave this up to you guys if you want to play with the facts and actually they do not exist. i think the american people are headed for something serious because we do not see the obvious. host: that is james in north carolina. for the first half hour, we have talked about the biden administration caller: approach. you can add that to the max as you look and give your opinion on what you think about the ministration's approach. -- administration's approach. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 748-8002 for independents.

you can text us at (202) 748-8003. if you wish, you can post on our social media sites, facebook at facebook.com/cspan. one of the people responding to news about opec yesterday was virginia's governor here and he talked about that but also talked about his own state and what they plan to do with energy policy. here are some of his thoughts from yesterday. >> the energy plan skills back wind and solar energy emphasis and focuses on nuclear power, economic competition. i wonder if the events in your first year's governor, the more intense hurricanes which scientists say are more intense because of climate change, the war in ukraine and the opec decision, making the insecurity of where we get our fuel from highlighted, does that suggest you should be -- that we should be leaning into more green

energy, not less? >> what i have called for is all of the above. it is not reducing an emphasis on renewables. it is correcting an error made in the previous and ministration energy plan to exclude everything else. we need to move forward with wind and solar and carbon capture and natural gas. we need to move forward with nuclear into one of the things i believe is we have an opportunity in virginia to lead the nation in the development of small modular reactors -- actors to provide baseline power that is clean and reliable and affordable. this is why common sense has to come back to the equation, which is we cannot evacuate one of our strengths, which is the fact that we innovate in america. if we can find a way that natural gas can continue to be a huge part of our overall power stack, we can innovate across nuclear and embrace renewables wind and solar, but we are going to have to adopt all of them to

get where we want to be a, which is reliable, affordable, and a clean power stack. host: looking at the decision on capitol hill, reuters reporting that top u.s. senators from both parties gave momentum to a bill pressuring opec plus after the group announced the oil production cuts. the so-called new oil-producing and exploiting cartels bill gained interest after the group made those cuts. with saudi arabia set to help vladimir putin wages war against ukraine, it will long be remembered by americans, adding we are looking at all the legislative tools to deal with this, including the no pacbell. it also says that senator chuck grassley intends to launch the measure as an amendment to the forthcoming national defense authorization act. so i look at that playing out in

congress when it comes to oil production. we will hear from joe, independent line, in new jersey. caller: i would just make,'s regarding the way we view the saudi decision for people who think of saudi arabia is making a decision because they are our friends or enemies. they are making a business decision because the future market clearly indicates prices will go down further. they will protect their profits. if they wanted to close someone out regarding the issue of oil, we should be discussing india and china for buying russian oil. the saudi's are just making a cold decision about seeing prices fall and trying to make profit margins. the saudi arabian oil company is a state company and we should not confuse a business decision with local decisions. host: dorothy is in maryland, democrats line.

caller: we have been getting oil from saudi arabia since the 1970's and we never stopped getting it even under trump. we have been importing from different countries, but i want to say this. biden should kick saudi arabia's butt. do not give in. we do need to get off of the rails with oil. because under bush and i think jimmy carter and even with reagan. they play games with us. we need to get off of depending on them for oil. and biden is right and needs to let the republicans cry in one but we need to get electric cars and solar panels. we need to do it now. do not worry about what they say because we are being blackmailed.

that is all it is. we are being blackmailed. host: when it comes to solar issues internationally, the wall street journal looks at putting more solar panels and the like in some places in europe and highlighting some issues with that. this is from matthew dalton, writing the france is the weak link in the plan. the french regulations have pushed solar development to previously industrial land instead of green space come along only those projects to sell power at a premium. it highlights what is going on in spain, saying in spain public opposition is growing for a large number of solar farms and development. mayors are protesting decisions by the national government to allow hundreds of solar farms to be built in a region renowned for its cultural sites. in some cases, all of trees have been -- olive trees have been

uprooted to make room for solar panels. the wall street journal also looks at electric vehicles in the united states, a large push by the ministration. they look at the sale of hybrids , highlighting that u.s. car buyers have been snapping up hybrids within just 12 days of their arrival on dealership lots this year through august, compared to 16 days for electric vehicles and 23 days for internal combustion vehicles according to data from a consumer research site. after surging last year, hybrid sales flipped through august according to a research firm largely because of supply constraints at toyota. some dealers say the hybrid backlog stretches into the thousands of vehicles. in darlington, independent line. caller: happy indigenous peoples' day. i wanted to speak on something i heard earlier.

pompeo spoke about america first and i would be remiss if i did not mention first the indigenous people and include them in this conversation. that is with the petition is about, so people are interested in that. host: on oil production in the united states and how the biden administration is treating that cut what do you think? -- treating that, what do you think? caller: i do not think the biden administration is taking a strong enough approach. people and profit, that is my concern. that is a big civil-rights history in my consideration. host: let's hear from cliff in

new york, democrats line. caller: good morning. is it true that the united states owns an island? i heard there is enough fuel for 200 years underneath that. if there is -- if it is true, why aren't we using it? host: and to the biden administration approach to these issues, what do you think? caller: i asked a question about goal island. do we own it? host: i understand that, but the topic at hand as far as how the biden administration treat oil production in the united states, what you think? caller: if we on this island, it is not just the biden administration. we have had this island for so many years and we are not using it. why have we not use this fuel that is under the island? host: that is cliff in new york. let's hear from a representative

from michigan who also asked about the effect decision yesterday. here is part of a response. [video clip] >> given what we saw from opec this weekend the decision to cut 2 million barrels of oil per day, do you believe that president biden's trip to saudi arabia, do you think that was a mistake? >> you have to try. i appreciate his willingness to try and there is nothing more important right now to inflation than the price of gas. you have to do it, but i think the saudi's have made a strategic error. i cannot say whether the crown prince of saudi arabia overpromise to the president or just through that promise of the window. either way, the saudi's are going to live with this decision for a long time. we have been partners for 70 years. they had a strategic decision to make about whether to help the world economy or cut it back

here and at best, they made a decision that did not happen -- help the rest of the world. so we have a problem. host: from our facebook page, she adds that oil is driven by demand. the president can do little to affect the price because we have a free market. he cannot force u.s. companies to drill. anyone suggesting otherwise need only look at venezuela. sue in new jersey says, i do not understand what we cannot find a balance between environmental regulations and production in the u.s.. let's reduce consumption. investments in public transportation are needed. we have to wean ourselves off of foreign oil. those are some of the ways to reach out to us. if you want to text us, (202) 748-8003 is how you do that. tyler up next in florida, republican line. caller: how are you? host: i am well, thank you.

go ahead. caller: i think what biden has done is he has basically tied his hands with what he has done with opec and cutting off our own energy. i think instead of all these incentives we give for electric vehicles we should maybe let the free market decide. host: what do you mean by that? caller: i mean people will go out and buy electric vehicles of they can afford them. if not, we should still have our own oil production here. we do it cleaner and better than countries we are trying to get it from now like venezuela. i believe we can adapt and overcome instead of trying to cut off our own oil and going to saudi arabia for oil. host: from our independent line, we will hear next from linda in north carolina.

caller: i wanted to go over what energy independence means. it does not mean we have enough oil for ourselves. it means the dollar amount of oil we sold was equal to the amount of the oil that we bought. we could not have from the pipeline -- we cannot have use that oil. the only oil we use in the u.s. is sweet crude. we have that in mississippi and the rest of it is in saudi arabia, so we have to buy it from them but we can offset their price by selling the oil from the pipeline through china. not one drop of that was coming to us and we use it anyway. in canada, i watch the whole hearing on c-span. canada was running that pipeline through the united states

because it was such horrible, terrible stuff that all the states between the land, the box or whatever, between -- bogs or whatever, between where they were getting it and the coast of canada where they could ship it to china refused to have it go through their land. they said run it through the u.s.. let them deal with it. i think the whole thing has been misconstrued. host: we will go to darren in new mexico, democrat line. caller: i wanted to piggyback on a caller who called about change. change is rough. but humans only change when they meet a precipice and i think we are at a precipice now. we are sitting under a giant nuclear furnace called the sun. if we do not have the forethought to tap into that energy source as a species, we

are in trouble. have a good day. host: we have about 15 minutes left on this topic if you want to engage with us when it comes to the biden administration's approach when comes to oil in the united states. you can call us at (202) 748-8001 for republicans. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 748-8002 for independents. you can text us at (202) 748-8003. just a bit of international news about ukraine, bloomberg reports it was president putin threatening further missile attacks on ukraine and the most intense strikes since the first days of the invasion, marking a dangerous new escalation. if attempt to commit terrorist acts on our territory continue, responses from russia will be harsh and skill correspond to the level of threat to russia he said in televised comments.

no one should have any doubt, he finished in those comments. the russia-ukraine events will be the topic at the united nations general simile today. you can see it play out in an emergency meeting to discuss the annexation of the territory. you can watch those live proceedings starting this afternoon at 3:00 eastern on c-span and follow along on our app. you can also follow along on the website and a couple of editorials to show you about production in the united states or at least a couple takes. this is the washington post, saying as the world's second-largest crude oil producers saudi arabia has leverage in the short run. restoring freedom over the longer-term means taking a vantage of our dramatic supply of fossil fuels and green energy . congress and the states can do more to encourage conservation,

including through increased fuel taxes, which states have unlimited in recent years. fuel taxes raise per gallon prices, but the ultimate destination of the money is the highway trust fund, not moscow. that is from the washington post. another taken the wall street journal, especially in light of the opec decision, saying the biden white house has trying -- tried every gimmick to lower gas prices other than the one that would really matter. a statement from mr. biden to that effect would spur production immediately in the permian basin and encourage new investment, but the administration will not do it because it is scared because the climate left wants to ban fossil fuels. that is the definition of shortsighted and leads to humiliations like the one wednesday and higher prices for american families. sammy in north carolina. let's hear from him, republican line. go ahead.

caller: good morning the first thing president biden did when he took office was reverse all of president trump? -- all of president trump's policies to include the energy policy. he made it tougher to get federal leases and placed his word that these oil companies get leases on federal property. there is no oil there, so it is useless. for the democrats, it makes me happy to see them wine -- whine. they need to look in a mirror. these democrats keep voting for these liberal idiots, so i do not feel any pain for them. are you going to have a segment on hunter's laptop? host: we have covered it a couple times and our book tv unit has covered it as well if you want to check out the website. darnell -- terrel in maryland,

democrats line. caller: joe biden is helping the american people. i remember when oil stocks were down. under donald trump, oil companies were filing for bankruptcy and donald trump asked these audis -- the saudis to stop pumping so the american oil companies can make more money. remember when they tried to get the gallon to $60 a barrel? we were in negative territory when it came to oil and oil companies were fight -- filing for bankruptcy. do you remember that? host: a lot has happened on the oil front, but you can keep going. what is your point as far as what you are seeing today? caller: joe biden is helping the american people. we are dealing with inflation and he is tapping the oil reserves to bring the price of

gas down. he can only do so much. you hear people say we need refineries. oil companies do not want to build refineries because they do not want to get caught like they did last time under donald trump when they had to file for bankruptcy. host: darnell, independent line. caller: i find it funny that biden loves the foster few -- fossil fuel industry when hunter biden was making $500,000 a year at a foreign fossil fuel company in the ukraine. host: steve is next from texas, republican line. caller: i would like to say when joe biden took office gasoline around here in the central texas area was $1.80 a gallon. it instantly jumped up after he

was in office just for a short time. it instantly jumped up to $3.20 a gallon. that is before the ukraine war. way before. then it climbed up to five dollars. after he started tapping into the strategic oil reserve, which you should not be doing, and brought it down. but it will go way up after the midterms are over. he is only doing it for political reasons anyway. as far as this venezuelan oil, that is the filthiest stuff. it will cost you two or three times enough to refine that oil. you have the cleanest oil in the world right over here at the permian basin and he shut it all down. he shut down the reserves in north dakota, south dakota, pennsylvania. he shut it all down.

what do you think is going to happen? host: let's hear from a recent interview with admiral john kirby. you probably remember him from his time at the defense department. he is now a strategic communications coordinator. >> he said at the time it was not about oil. it was about national interest goals through the region to try to foster a more integrated, cooperative region. we said we would welcome an increase in production and there was a small increase in production after that trip. now numbers are down. opec plus has been telling the world they are producing 3.5 million more barrels than they are, so in some ways this announced decrease its them back in line with what actual production.

we have not seen any dramatic shifts in the price of oil. it is still around $90 a barrel. >> the united states under president biden has been releasing one million barrels of oil a day from our strategic reserve. is it in our national interest to be more independent when it comes to oil? we have the means to do so. the president biden reverse course and allow us to draw more? >> we do agree that we need to be less dependent on opec plus and foreign producers of resources like oil. that is why the president increased draws from the strategic petroleum reserve to stabilize this. it is why the president has issued more leases now for drilling here in the continental

united states. oil-producing company's have not taken advantage fully. it is why the president is working on clean energy solutions, because that is really the future. host: sam is in texas, democrats line. caller: look, thank you for taking my call. i retired from the natural gas industry in the permian basin. this oil companies, they are just out to make a buck for themselves. it is not oil independence. they are doing their own thing, trying to make their own money and let the people go. you would think low prices will be ok when gas prices are high over here, but they are not. we actually pay high prices and we are just at the mercy of whatever route they want to go.

we really need to move away. we need to get them to solar. they are just out to get the money. host: in boston, massachusetts, our independent line. caller: hello. i was thinking about back in carter -- he was president. he had solar panels installed on the white house and reagan, who was president after he was, had them removed. i just think that democrats have been -- of course i am registered republican, but in my heart i am a democrat. we have been trying to do something about the air quality and water quality in this country and i think during world

war two when i was a young girl we tried to cut back on usage of things we were asked by the government to cut back on usage, collecting foil and fat. right now, i think anyone of us could cut back on our usage of power, of electricity, of oil, of gas. if we wanted to make a small effort in that regard, it might make a global difference. host: let's go to patrick, republican line. caller: i love the show. i wanted almost every day. on oil production, biden and the democrats ran on getting off of fossil fuels. his end -- isn't good that opec

cut production on fossil fuel because this is what the ministration wants? -- administration wants? host:? anything else -- anything else? from north carolina, democrats line. caller: good morning. i listen to your show every morning, but what biden is doing with our reserves is absolutely horrible. if we go into a conflict, we need them. he should leave the reserves alone. find other means. we are a self-sufficient country and everything -- in everything. let's go back to that and save our reserves. host: just a few more calls on this topic. this is in knoxville, tennessee. independent line. caller: i heard you say

something earlier about opec countries and leveraging oil production discussions. i was wondering how the droughts in middle eastern countries and china would affect that and hoping maybe you all in washington were talking about that maybe a little bit and hopefully that does provide leverage and economic talks and does not go anything further than that. host: why do you think drought issues are part of the discussion? caller: i thought maybe the government could trade freshwater for oil or something and that might help with the leverage, the economic leverage discussion. host: one more call from marie in minnesota. let me push the button. it is not pushing.

if you could push it downstairs for me, i appreciate it. marie, you are on. caller: i would like to know one thing. i am very curious about kushner. how does he get such a line to go with the saudi's and make these big deals? it just blows me away. i know they are not worried about gas or the price, but how did this all happen? host: that is marie, finishing this hour of phone calls on production in the united states. thank you to all who participated. two guests joining us through the course of the morning. first, you will meet daryl davis. he discusses his efforts to get members of the ku klux klan to leave the group and his philosophies. later in the program, professor and author mia brooks about the continued influence of those who follow the conspiracy theories

of q and on. she will explain how the group operates. those conversations coming up on washington journal. -- ♪ ♪ >> the january 6 committee returns thursday. ahead of the release of their written report expected by the end of the year. you can watch the hearings live beginning at 1:00 p.m. on c-span , c-span now or anytime on demand at c-span.org. >> if you are enjoying book tv then sign up for our newsletter

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the $100,000 in cash prizes is a $5,000 grand prize. >> there are a lot of places to get political information, but only at c-span do you get it straight from the source. no matter where you are from or where you stand on the issues, c-span is america's network. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. if it happens here or here, or here, or anywhere that matters, america is watching on c-span. powered by cable. >> washington journal continues. host: our first guest of the morning as a musician, activist and author of the book " clandestine relationships." daryl davis, welcome to washington journal. what do you do for your main

job? guest: i am a professional musician, touring around the world. host: what kind of music do you do? guest: whatever they pay me to play. [laughter] my degree is in jazz, but i play a lot of rock 'n' roll, country. host: you take this path of being a musician, and somehow you end up meeting with members of the ku klux klan. guest: as a bandleader, my job on stage is to foster harmony between all the voices on my stage. anytime you hear dissidents, unless it is -- dissonance unless it is intentionally injected, it is noise. i try to have harmony. when i step off the stage, i want to have harmony around me in society. host: when did you realize this was something you needed to do? guest: i spent a lot of time as a child, growing up overseas. i traveled a lot.

i was always in multicultural schools. in the 1960's as a kid in grade school, i had classmates from nigeria, japan, russia. all of their children went to the same school. when you came back home, i would be either in all-black schools or black-and-white schools, meaning they were still segregated or nearly integrated.we did not have that multicultural classroom that i had overseas. something was wrong. i could not put my finger on it until i was participating in a parade in which i was the only black cub scout in the parade. everything was going fine until at one point i was having bottles and rocks thrown at me. this was 1968. my parents explained racism to me, and at the age of 10 when this happened, i had never heard

the word " racism." why would i? it was not in my sphere. overseas i was living 10 years ahead of my time because that multicultural environment had not yet come to our classrooms in this country. when it finally did, i was already there. host: tell us about your first meeting with the kkk. how did that happen? guest: i was playing at a bar in a town called frederick, maryland. the bar was known as an all-white bar, not that there were any signs, but black people knew they were not welcome there. when you go somewhere where you all are not -- where you are not welcome and alcohol is being sold, bad things can happen. i was the only black guy in the band. a guy put his arm around my

shoulder and told me it was the first time he heard a black man play the piano like jerry lewis. i told him that jerry lee lewis learned from black piano players. he wanted to buy me a drink. i don't drink alcohol. he bought me a cranberry juice. he clinked his glass -- my glass and said " this is the first time i have sat down and had a drink with a black man." i was truly baffled. i asked him why. at first he didn't answer me. his buddy elbowed him and said " tell him!" he said " i am a member of the ku klux klan." i burst out laughing at him! i know a lot about the klan. it doesn't work that way. i thought this guy was pulling a

joke on me. he took out his wallet and handed me his klan membership card. i stopped laughing, but the guy was generally friendly, generally interested in me. we talked about the kln and soman -- klan other things, but he gave me his card and told me to call him when i would be playing at this bar again so he could call his friends. i call him. when i called, he brought klansmen to see me play. they would get ther -- out there and dance. a couple of them would it up and move across the room. " we do not want to touch you, we just want to look at you."

that is how that started. later, i decided to write a book on the klan. i wanted to interview these people, go down south, midwest, interview different klan members, and find out " how can you hate me when you don't even know me?' that was the basis for clandestine relationships. that became the first book written by a black author on the ku klux klan. host: table there -- daryl davis is our guest. if you want to ask him questions, it is (202) 748-8000 four the eastern -- for the eastern and central time zones and (202) 748-8001 for the pacific and mountain time zones. what have you discovered in talking with these people? guest: they have their own

perceptions until they meet somebody in person. then that perception can be shaped. what you want to be careful of is you find someone who says "daryl is ok for a black guy." when i make -- get into relationship, then i introduce them to other friends of mine,, black people, jewish people, white people who looked just like them who may not agree with their views. they see other people and think " maybe daryl isn't the exception." a clansmen is is not stamped out of a cookie-cutter. they may be monolithic in their ideological views. i have found, traveling around the world between my childhood and my adulthood as a musician,

when you combine those 2 sets of travels, i have been to 61 countries, i have played in all 50 states, and no matter how far i go from our country, no matter how different people may be who i encounter, they do not look like me, they do not worship as i do, i always conclude that we are all human beings, and as such, we all want these basic 5 core values. everyone wants to be loved, we all want to be respected, we went to be heard, we want to be treated truthfully, we want the same for our families as anyone else wants for their families. if we can learn to apply those five values, when we find ourselves in an adversarial situation, i guaranteed the

navigation will be much more smooth. let's take abortion, nuclear weapons, the war between -- in ukraine, or the last presidential election, these are all hot topics. you are on one side, someone is on the others. apply those values, and you can never get the conversation. host: how many klan members have you spoken to, do you think? guest: several hundred. over 200 have left. i have the robes and flags to prove it. host: there are pictures on your website. they give you these things. why is that? guest: it is a piece of american history. it is a shameful piece of american history. everybody has history, good, bad, ugly, and shameful, and we need to learn from it, for the same reason we do not destroy the things in the holocaust museum. host: do you hold them at your

home? guest: i keep most of them locked up off-site. i have a few in my home that i travel with when i go and give lectures. host: you can read his book " clandestine relationships." are first call is from jonathan. jonathan is in california for our guest daryl davis. caller: i have muted my television. i am looking at these amazing photographs daryl has taken. i admire you so much, daryl. you are an amazing human being. you said early on you had traveled all over the world, so you have been exposed to a lot of different cultures, languages, and that is why your brain is wide open to receive new information. guest: i will give you and the

audience at home my favorite quote of all time. it is by mark twain. mark twain said, " travel is fatal to prejudice,, bigotry and, narrowmindedness, and our people need accounts of -- host: cornelius is next. cornelius in louisiana for our guest. caller: good morning, pedro, and happy columbus day. pedro, i was just telling the call screener that daryl davis is a davis. i wonder how you survived all that stuff. in louisiana, you know who louis armstrong is right? guest: i'm a musician! caller: louis armstrong came here to alexandria, louisiana,

and he said this was the most racist city he had ever been to and he would never perform here again. i just want to know, how have you survived all this stuff? i faced racism myself. i am 61 years old, and the fbi essentially set me up in something. how do you go up against these klans and live? caller: thank you, cornelius. i am 64 years old, and i have had my share of racism. i continue to face it, but i believe the greatest weapon and most effective weapon to combat racism is the least expensive and the most underused. it is called conversation. i believe a missed opportunity for dialogue is a missed opportunity for conflict resolution. that is how i deal with it by applying those 5 values.

is everybody going to change? absolutely not, but if someone is willing to take the opportunity to sit down and have a conversation with you, even though you both are on opposite ends of the ideological spectrum, there is an opportunity to plant a seed. it might not happen overnight. you have to come back and nurture that seed, and water it. host: how difficult is it to keep those conversations civil? guest: it is fine for me. a lot of people try to take it personally. i don't take it personally. how can someone walk into a room and call me names and tell me what i am? why should i believe it? it is a lie. i know who i am. you do not know who im the minute i walked into the room. why should i take that personally? if my mother or father were to tell me " you are inferior,"

maybe i would believe them. they brought me into this world. they raised me. rather than attack that person, let them get it all out. people want to be heard. if you allow them to be heard without attacking them, chances are they will reciprocate and allow you to be heard. they are so used to pushing buttons and having that conflict, " how come this side isn't reacting? what does he have to say?" host: have you ever felt in danger while having these conversations? guest: i have had some violent situations where i have had to put someone in prison -- in the hospital and in jail. those have been few and far between. it can happen. host: did it ever stop you? guest: absolutely not. i looks -- absolutely not.

i look for the greater good. this is our country. it can only become one of two things. host: michael is next for our guest. he is in boston. good morning. caller: thank you, c-span. as a black american, black dissent american, 58, so not much younger than your guest, i am definitely taken aback because i feel this conversation adds legitimacy to a hate organization. i was taken back because he brought in all this other stuff -- ukraine, russia, the jews -- i wonder if this person even knows the founder of the kkk

was judah benjamin. their target was black people. here he brings up jews as if they were out here lynching jews, when they were lynching black people. i don't agree with this. i don't agree with this idea that " as long as they talk to me ok -- that doesn't matter!@ as if having a conversation with them is going to change reality. it is not really different, if you look at quality-of-life stats. i just don't like this idea. i feel this gentleman is adding legitimacy to diligent -- something that is illegitimate. host: stay on the line. guest: thank you for your comments.

i have been doing this work for 40 years. i am very much aware of when the claim was formed,, why it was formed -- the klan was formed, why it was formed, and what it is doing today. it is shameful. i will never support it, but it is not an illegitimate organization. perhaps it should be, but it is not. we have the right to hate. we do not have the right to hurt. rather than battle people in the street over racism, why not bring them to the table and have a conversation? allow them to learn about you, learn about them, dispel their fears about you because of the color of our skin. that is what i do. when you have been mistreated as i have -- i am a descendant of slaves. when you have been mistreated for 400 years and you are still

being mistreated 400 years later, it is time to change the approach. i am not condoning it. i am trying a different approach. host: do you have a response? guest: my only response is first of all, i hear what you are saying, but what i said was ilegit, the organization. the war was illegit. he did not handle the fact that the head of the kkk was named judah p. benjamin. host: the first leader of the -- guest: the first leader of the clan was nathan bedford forrest.

they have gone from dropouts to presidents of the united states. president harry truman had joined the klan for a short time before he became president. supreme court justice hugo black was in the klan when he got the appointment to sit on the supreme court. he had to leave the klan in order to do that. senator robert byrd who was the last living senator from west virginia was estate recruiter for the ku klux klan. he later gave it up and did a lot of good things for civil rights. people can change.if you do not believe people can change, there is not hope. why are you still here? do you want to complain the rest of your life, or do you want to do something about it? host: the southern poverty law center said that the number has

drastically dropped. guest: there are probably a few more groups than 18, but the number. of but the number of groups has dropped -- 18, but the number of groups has dropped. the proud boys, the alt-right, vanguard, national alliance, they go on and on. the klan was the first and the largest at one time. host: let's hear from foster in texas. you are on with daryl davis. caller: hello, mr. davis. yes, i appreciate what you are doing. your situation reminded me of a schoolmate friend that i had. i was in eighth grade. he was from alabama.

i was here in san antonio. we became friends to a point where we were sharing tents when i was in boy scouts. we ate at each other's homes and everything, but what happened to break our friendship up was the fact that he started hanging around these other white kids and all of a sudden he changed. he once said the n-word to me while he was at my home. he was just kidding around, and he pretended like he did not know what it meant and it was no big deal. when we had this confrontation when he was around his friends, he showed me that he did know what it meant. this continues because of people

who push people who do not really want to be racist, i believe. it is just like a child who comes up and learns racism because of the people who are guiding them. host: thank you. guest: absolutely. you made a good point. racism is a learned behavior and what can be learned can be unlearned. you saw the true colors of your friend before all this happened, and then he changed. that exposure is what changed him. he needs more exposure to what it was before he hung out with those other white supremacist type friends that he embodied, their belief system, and their ideology. this is why it is so important to have conversation, provide that exposure. host: what have you learned from

your conversations about what keeps people in the kkk? guest: a klansman is not stamped out of a cookie-cutter. it depends upon -- what keeps them in their depends upon why they joined in the first place. somebody joined because my grandfather was in the client. my daddy was in the clan -- in the klan. my daddy was in the klan. my kids are going to be in the klan. or you move into a town that is a strong klanhold. if you want to do business in that town, you join. it might be a situation where you are in a coal mining town, and you have been mining coal your whole life, right out of high school you mind coal, your whole family has him -- mined coal, your whole family has mined coal.

your company has laid you off and all of a sudden new migrants to this country are being paid a fraction of what you are being paid and taking your jobs. the l;a c -- klan sees that and will say " the blacks have the naacp, the jews have the adl, come join us, we will get your jobs back!" these were people who were never racist in their lives. now they are out of work, they are not qualified to do anything else, and the bank is knocking on the door, so the klan tells them " you cannot even feed your family. join us." they figure" what do i have to lose? host: you are associated with

the foundation against intolerance and racism. guest: it was started by bargaining, and at -- bartney, an excellent guy whose son was going to school in new york and was treated terribly because of the color of his skin. it addresses all topics of discrimination, not just skin color,, but sexism fairness in medicine, fairness in education in the arts. i get lots of invitations to join organizations that want to combat discrimination. i have to be careful about which ones i associate with. fair is one of the very few i associate with. they are having an event tonight in d.c. that i will be attending. host: daryl davis, our guest for

this conversation. let's hear from rose in oregon. caller: i am so grateful to you for talking about your experience at the international schools. it reassured me about what it is all about. it had such a great influence. your association in that environment had such a great, formative influence on your life and what you are doing now, and i appreciate very much what your perspective is and how you are going about it, and how you are living. i think it is wonderful that you are able to associate with the klansmen and explain their perspective. i really believe in this. i am so grateful to hear

somebody who is beyond identity politics. guest: hannah: thank you -- guest: thank you, rose for, educating our public. host: to tony in washington dc. caller: thank you for allowing us to talk to you on this forum. i am a black man who lives in washington dc. quite often i am mistaken for a white person, but i remember, this was may be a few years ago, when you were on tv and you are talking about how to of the white guys that entered your home. one of them was a bodyguard. you were quite worried about this. you were kind of scared for your safety. guest: i don't remember being afraid. i invented them to my home.

the bodyguard set on the couch with the leader of the ku klux klan. he pulled out his gun. i was not scared of them. i did not want the gun to go off accidentally. today, i own their robes and hoods! guest: i remember -- caller: i remember that part. you were somewhat taken aback by the production of the gun and everything. i remember that the -- at the end the klansmen gave you his cape and whole thing. i admire you very much because you are a great person. i would love to join your band. i know how to play three chords! guest: my man! come to my website dary ldavis.com. host: dylan is in south dakota.

your next. caller: i am a disabled veteran. when i first got to vietnam, the brothers were all draftees. they had attitudes. by the time i left i was a blue-eyed brother. i haven't had any problems at all with brothers, and i admire what you do. guest: thank you very much. thank you for your service to our country. when your life is put on the line, and you are defending our country, there is no color. it is a shame though sometimes when you come back from being equal overseas to come back and you are treated like a second-class citizen. that has to stop. not only do we have to do more for our people as human beings, but we also need to do a lot more for our veterans. host: when it comes to the kkk,

how has social media change things in your mind? guest: social media is like fire. it can be good, it can be bad. if you are cold, i can bring fire to your house and warm you up, or if i am mad at you, i can bring fire to your house to bring it down. a group can claim to have 500 people, but it is only one guyana basement. it has enabled people -- one guy in a basement. it has enabled people. we look at the capital and suresh and. a lot of -- capitol insurrection. a lot of that was on facebook. host: when you see those events, are you ever discouraged? guest: no.

i have to do more. i need more people to help do more. not everyone needs to be on the frontline. you can be on the sideline, you could be on the back line, you can be online. we are all equal partners. you might remember your favorite movie. you could probably tell me who starred in it, but can you tell me who the director is? maybe. can you tell me who the cameramen were? probably not. or the name of the best boy or the lighting guy? probably not. but each of those people played a role in that movie getting that oscar. on the back line, the sideline, the people promoting it like you are right now, you are online. we all have to work together and get that solution. host: this next caller is in

california. caller: hello. good morning, daryl. guest: how are you? caller: i'm well. how about yourself? guest: i'm very well. caller: can ask you a question? guest: absolutely. caller: one or two of the previous colors brought up how do you -- callers brought up how do you protect yourself? guest: i learn as much as i can in advance about the other side. until i have a certain degree of knowledge, i go and meet these people. sometimes i meet them cold and i do not know anything about them, but i have been doing this for

40 years so my instincts are pretty good. every now and again someone may go off handle. there is a history of violence. there are people who do not like to see you. you are black, jewish, gay, islamic, they want to stamp you out. i have had to deal with some of those people. sometimes you have to fight your way out of it unfortunately. host: how many referrals do you get from klan bringing you other people? guest: absolutely! i have had neo-nazis and kkk people and all the right people who come out and tour with me on my lecture circuit and speak out against their former organizations. they tried tode-radicalize -- to de-radicalize people from these organizations. one guy was murdered out in california. host: how does your family feel about what you do?

guest: my family, my mother, and father are gone now. my mom passed shortly before i started this. my dad passed a few years ago. my family raised me. they treated everyone as a human being. treat people as i wanted to be treated. my father was concerned for my safety of course, but he understood where i was coming from. his job was to foster diplomatic relations between foreign countries and the u.s. he was a public affairs officer for the state department. we served overseas. i am fostering better relations within my own country. we did it around the world. host: let's hear from lupe in california. caller: hello, you caught me in the kitchen. guest: you didn't invite me over? caller: you know what, if i was

making a lot of it, you would be here! we are talking. you're here in spirit! what i called about is i am enjoying this conversation because when i was seven years old i was at my girlfriend's house and we went to play. her brother came in through the living room, took her into the kitchen and said " you know what mom said about bringing those kind of people over," and i didn't understand! new big deal. later on -- no big deal. later on i run into him in. -- later on i run into him in high school. i say " why did you say that?" that was the first time i heard about racism.

they were japanese! when i got out of that was we were in the middle being mexicans in north hollywood. to my right were the jews. to my -- across the other end where the italians. to my left, i had the japanese a nd where we lived i got to share my burritos, whatever we had, and i became a good cook from the beginning when i was young. host: very much. guest: lupe reminds me of a story, true story. this klansman was sitting in my car in the passenger seat. i'm driving. we got on the topic of black

crime and he made the statement that i have heard many times. he said, " all black people have a gene within then that makes them violent." i am driving. i say " what are you talking about?" he says " who is doing all the drive-bys and carjackings in southeast?" i say, " it is black people, but that is who predominantly lives in southeast d.c.. who is doing all of the crime in bangor, maine? white people! you are ignoring the demographics." i am as black as anyone you have ever seen. i have never done a drive-by. he said, "your gene is latent. it hasn't come out yet." i m sitting there dumbfounded,

speechless. he is smug. i had to think about it. i had to go to where he was in order to connect. i thought about it. i said, " we all know that every white person in them has a gene that makes them a serial killer." he says, " what you talking about?" i said " name me 3 black serial killer's." he could not even name one. i said, " charles manson, ted bundy, albert desalvo -- they are all white. son, you are a serial killer." he said, "daryl, i haven't killed anybody."

i said, "your gene is latent." he said that stupid. i said that is no more stupid than what you said to me. he quit though the ku klux klan based on that conversation. host: let's hear from clarence in south carolina. caller: how are you doing? i am enjoying this conversation. i am reading about what you have to say. i am involved in a discrimination case in the state of south carolina. i will be looking for assistance . i have been posting videos of evidence, showing how corrupt the system is against people of color, and so if you have an opportunity, i would invite you

to go to youtube and look at those videos. my name is clarence jenkins. we can change the culture by having conversation, real conversation. we deal with these issues of racism and identity. we put it under the rug and do not deal with the real conversation. also -- host: i will leave it there for our best. guest: thank you, clarence. i wish you very much luck in your dealing with the discrimination you are facing. get your allies around, speak out about it, do not attack anybody. listen to them and they will listen back to you. when two enemies are talking, they are not fighting.

they may be disagreeing, but they are talking. spend five minutes with your worst adversary, and you will find something in common and that gap will narrow. when you get here you are having a relationship with your adversary. you keep on talking,, you find more in common and now you are here and you are in some kind of friendship. you may not agree on everything. you are in a friendship. by the time you get here that you have -- here, you have so much in common that the differences are trivial. good luck. host: what practical tips to start these conversations whether it be someone you disagree with on race, religion, whatever? guest: walk across the cafeteria. you can do it physically or virtually over the internet.

find these metropolitan places that have diverse communities. college, high school, or in the workplace, you work with people who do not look like you. you get along at work, you work on the same projects. but at 12 noon everyone goes to the cafeteria, blocks go with blacks, hispanics go with hispanics. we tend to self segregate. does that mean they are racist? not necessarily. if you try and sit at their table, then you have a problem. you have to address that problem. once or twice a week,. leave your -- once or twice a week, walk across the cafeteria. leave your comfort group. you will likely make a new friend. i have been across the atlantic

ocean and pacific ocean more times than i can count, but you do not have to do that. you can hop on the internet and talk to someone in a foreign country. get to know people. this is our planet. get to know it. host: from washington dc, this is let me -- wendy. hi. caller: i'm here. host: you will have to turn down your tv. caller: it is turned off. host: go ahead. caller: oh, hi i just wanted to thank you, daryl for all you do for the universe. guest: i appreciate that. host: john in neptune beach, florida. caller: hey, daryl. let me first say, i think you

have a wonderful voice. , james earl jones, if he ever retires -- guest: [laughter] caller:, i am a white conservative, trump supporter, love what you have to say. i think you are great. i liked a lot of the lack conservative -- black conservative leaders, but i think your message is wonderful and i agree with you 100%. guest: really appreciate that very much. that is what it is all about. host: is it harder to change someone's mind on race or politics over the years? guest: either or. one's perception is one's reality, even if it is not real, it is their reality.

you cannot change someone's reality. if you try to change their reality, they will push back. what you do is this -- never attack someone's reality. offer them better perceptions, and if they resonate with one of your perceptions, they will change their own reality because their perception becomes their reality. people say, you google my name, it says " black man converts x number of white supremacists." i did not convert anybody. i have been the impetus for 200 people to convert themselves. host: more calls for you? guest: sure. host: gina is up next in mississippi. caller: mr. davis, it sounds like you are a very intelligent man. i agree with the last caller. i live in the deep south.

i have never even seen or heard of the ku klux klan anywhere down here. i have a question for you. you keep mentioning white supremacists. do you believe that white people are the only people who are racist or do you believe there is racism in every race? guest: gina, there is racism in every race. let me ask you a question -- do you consider racism to be people? -- to be evil? caller: i don't know. i think racism is mistaken for a lot of other feelings like fear and ignorance, but i try to judge everybody by their integrity. i believe there is a lot of thugs in every race.

guest: if you consider racism to be out of fear, out of ignorance, and things like that, doesn't fear and ignorance pervade other skin colors as well, every religions as well -- other religions as well? caller: i'm talking about every race! i think there are good people and bad people in every race. another question i would like to ask you though, do you think the media is being racist and now against white people because that is all we ever hear is that white people are white supremacist. i think it is a load of crap and the media is responsible for most of our problems in the united states. guest: did you tell me that you live in the deep south and you have never heard of the ku klux klan?

host: she hung up. guest: there is racism amongst all people. you kept saying different races. i know for a fact that there are not different races. race is a man-made construct. there is only one race, and that is the human race. in the human race you have different colors and different cultures, but there is only one race. there are white and black colors, this that and the other. it can pervade all cultures and all people. host: daryl davis is the author of " clandestine relationships." he is also a musician and activist. thank you for your time today. host: coming up in 15 minutes we will speak with mia bloom out of the -- at the university talking about the impact of qanon on world politics.

first, open forum until then. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. independents, (202) 748-8002. we will take those calls as washington journal continues. ♪ >> c-span's campaign 2022 coverage of the midterm election continues this month with live debates on c-span, including thursday at 7:00 p.m. with -- when ron johnson meets mandela barnes for a second debate. marjorie taylor greene and marcus flowers debate october 16 and later from indiana, todd young faces thomas mcdermitt.

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in publishing with book tv's podcast about the with current nonfiction releases and trends through insider interviews. you can find about books on c-span now or wherever you get your podcasts. ♪ >> washington journal continues. host: if you want to participate in this open forum, you can do so via text at (202) 748-8003. launched from russia and ukraine over the last 12 hours. an emergency meeting was called taking a look at the latest

conflicts when it comes to russia and ukraine. if you want to see that united nations hearing that is at 3:00 this afternoon. you can see it on c-span or follow along using our app on c-span now or using our website c-span.org. we will give you updates. when it comes to american politics, a column in the washington post this morning takes a look at the odds of republicans winning either the house or the senate. amber phillips writing that, " if the republican house is something you might expect to see, is first a demanding of the -- disbanding of the january 6 committee. you will likely see an investigation of hunter biden. she writes this under the italics may be, adding that "

far right representatives will try to impeach biden on day one. that is what -- that was representative bobby good of virginia. she takes a look at the scenario if the democratically controlled senate remains the same. they will -- it goes on from there. that is in the column from amber phillips this morning. midterm elections are just weeks away. blake in mississippi, independent line, you are first step in this open forum, go ahead. caller: i would like to speak about the subject you are just talking about -- racism. i am a veteran of this country. america was an experiment to see if people can live together. at the same time, they had

chattel slavery, slavery the world had never seen. it should be ok for putin and korea to enslave, rape, and murder if it is ok for america, because america feels like it is ok to give african-americans one inch. you are doing this in order to keep our $2 trillion where we cannot invest in ourselves, going back into the world economy. i feel as though every race is racist, but when you have a democracy, we are supposed to -- the majority is supposed to take care of the few. we have a society where everybody is tribal.

host: that is blake in mississippi. let's hear from ted in idaho, democrats line. caller: i was wondering about some of this racism. it is too overt. they talk about it, talk about it, talk about it all the time. marjorie taylor greene, i don't see why she is still going. ron johnson, he gets up there and essays so the thing -- says something, like the previous guest said, something really derogatory about the black man. they shouldn't speak like that. host: one of the other things you could look for, if the house does change hands, when it comes to after the november elections,

this is the wall street journal saying one of the topics would be challenging funding for the irs. on the stump in campaign a ds, candidates have railed against of the expansion to the plan goes beyond mr. mccarthy. mr. mccarthy's first day agenda is embedded in the agency's continuing need for lawmakers to approve rising spending. those annual budgets are expected to total $138 billion. if congress approves all of that, the $88 billion expands -- if congress cuts are flat lines the annual budget, the irs could be forced to deploy the funds to

maintain current operations. caller: let's talk about racism in america. of course there is racism. what is the united states doing about it? every time it gets close to midterms or the election, here come c-span having people on to talk about race. sometimes you have to have accountability for yourself. you want to talk about racism? why is no black people proclaiming about the secretary of homeland security preparing to give a $1 billion settlement to immigrants at the border, but no reparations for black america? the black caucus are all for themselves. black people were discriminated

against under obama, under trump, very badly under president joe biden. the only thing his policies care about is illegal immigrants, host: to from tony in connecticut, democrat line. caller: good morning, pedro. happy indigenous indian stay here. i called for two things. first, i'm so glad they got rid of that columbus day because columbus was a slaveowner. you know who else we need to be looking at, it is america vess bucci, the guy that made the maps. he was a bigger slaveowner than columbus. we have to get rid of anything associated with america spew g. i think it is terrible we still use his name on geographic maps. that needs to be changed.

the other thing is, i believe that indians have been discriminated around here and a reparations need to either be made -- again, blacks need to have reparations as well. i am part of that because my great, great, great, great grandmother had a black husband and i am black. i want some of that money as well. host: that is tony is -- 20 in connecticut. present biden last week signing two decisions last week. caller: hello. i am appalled at the amount of money our government is sending to ukraine. they are not seeking peace. it is disgusting. it has been going on for eight years, since the coup in 2014.

we sent billions before that. our secretary of state admitted that, trying to influence their internal pocket -- politics. none of this is about the freedom and sovereignty of ukraine. we are trying to influence ukraine at nato. what he think nazis in ukraine are training on social media every day? they cannot hide it. they were parading through congress the other day with adam schiff, now we have our mentally addled president talking about nuclear holocaust. host: that is anthony into tour, michigan. the senate race in ohio between democrats tim ryan and republican j.d. vance, reporting to face-off tonight, as polls increasingly narrow. more republicans were seeing as having the advantage in ohio. joe ryan, a 10 term representative, a poll released

on wednesday showed fans leading ryan 46% to 45%, while a survey last week showed riley in advance 46% with vance at 43%. monday's debate will be an opportunity for both candidates to stand out and landed a lasting blow. politico takes a look at some other races and how they are currently training when it comes to the senate. in georgia, with incumbent rafael warren, they are forecasting the race as a tossup , quoting that with the politics pulling advantage for warnock, herschel walker battling allegations that he paid for an ex-girlfriend's abortion, the latest in a litany of accusations about walker and his treatment of women of the year, they also take a look at nevada. the incumbent democrat versus

the republican, they were also forecasting this as a tossup. a new poll last week states there republicans show a two point lead over the democratic senator. now the leader in every poll since august, but within a very tight range of a couple of points. you can always look for various debates and things that lead up to elections on our website, c-span.org. you can also find them on a short-term basis on our at, c-span now. from wisconsin, this is nate hello. caller: good morning, c-span. thank you very much for having the first debate between manella bards and ron johnson. i watched it and i have to say that i think ron johnson went there about half the lies and

distortions republicans have been coming up with to avoid dealing with global warming for the last couple of decades to date. he might run off with the next one. but i do think that in the debate, or actually in the past week, they were put to the suggestion of ron johnson's referendum, because he criticized the state governor for then proposing having a way for citizens to put referendums on the ballot, and the republican gerrymandered legislature shot it down, which means that mr. johnson either doesn't want it to actually pass or he knows his party basically raped its own elections with legislature. if they start doing referendums on one issue, it might be other issues, and people might actually have their say rather

than the legislature blockade. i think mandela barnes was absolutely right when he suggested that the supreme court go by the same ethics rules that all other federal judges go by, and that they should be term limited. i think that anybody out there who was in favor of term limits should expand it to that. host: that was nate in wisconsin. by the way, he mentioned that debate which we took in and you can still see if you go to the c-span website. october 7, that is the debate between ron johnson and mandela barnes. another wisconsin, this is arnold, mineral point, republican line. in morning, you are next. caller: good morning. a couple of different things. congress voted so politicians could not make big money. how come it nancy pelosi's

husband could do it? and for president biden to all different immigrants to cities in the night, but when texas and florida do it, it is a crime. texas and florida can put up with -- with thousands and thousands of them down there, but when a few go to martha's vineyard, i wonder why that is. and abortion. i like to ask everybody, what part of abortion is not murray? -- murder? if i am in my house and i go outside, i am the same person i was when i was in the house. a baby can suck its thumb, do everything else before it is born. how is that not murray? -- murder? host: the next jury selection will be this thursday.

blockbuster hearings in june and july. remember, that hearing had to be postponed because of hurricane ian. the committee has not announced agenda or witnesses, but committee members have discussed information about roger stone, about former president trump's cabinet discussed removing him from office, and how electors organized and states that president joe biden one, and fundraising for president trump selection. thursday at 1:00 is when you can expect that next hearing to take place. brooklyn, new york. independent line. caller: hi, pedro. i noticed c-span, cnn, nbc, and fox, you now have palestinians to discuss their problems, what's going on with them in israel.

you have the american indigenous people and what's going on with them in this country today, and you never have on hawaiians and what's going on with them in hawaii with gentrification. it is always black and white, black-and-white. it is designed to keep us apart. if the media will leave black-and-white people alone, i think we will get along just fine. but if he did, we would come together and we would run this government better than what is going on right now. thank you. i am done. host: let's hear from sally in maryland, hyattsville, maryland. caller: hello. this is perfect following that last speaker because that is what i'm calling about two. the woman who called from the deep south said it's the media. i want to first say thank you to darrell davis -- daryl davis.

it's great that your continuing to get people in conversation about racism, but also about politics. that is my comment about the media. i was a journalism major at iu, indiana university. i have been a long-term supporter of npr, pbs. but i think the media is -- we need to get back to the facts. one small example about what was just said on the hearing coming up about the january 6 hearings. you said the blockbuster hearing. it adds a tone that adds to the dissidents. it is a hearing. report on the facts, but there is so much repetition. host: that was usa today's rendering of the hearing, not mine. caller: i am sorry. i didn't know. that is just an example i wanted to touch on. host: ok. caller: i think we need to come

together. as the last man just said, if we gave more people to be space -- gave more people space to be together that is not fueling tribalism, we can get there. thank you. host: that is if you are talking about that. if you go to the front page of the "washington times" this morning, they took a look at an issue you are probably very familiar with through the trump administration. saying that president predicted three years ago that the ordinance of the russian collusion investigation would reveal very bad things that would result in the indictment. last month, trump announced lower expectations. mr. trump begins what is expected to be his final act, with the trial starting tuesday. the burning question is why. he produced such meager exults -- meager results.

was a wad goose chase or did he blow it? it helps for the investigation of mr. trump's presidential campaign. he is charged with five trump -- five counts of lying to the fbi. also, if you go to the pages of the new york times, is the interior pages, looking at the republican candidate for the governor of new york. two people wounded outside of his home. in a statement, he said that the two men who were shot were under his front porch and he did not know them. the authority said there is no connected between the injured and the residence of the home. the governor and his wife dana were not at home at the time of the shooting. there were at a parade in the morris park neighborhood. his 16-year-old daughters were

in the house doing homework when they heard gunshots and screaming. "they ran upstairs and lock themselves in the bathroom, and immediately called 911. they acted very swiftly and smartly every step of the way. diana and i are very proud of them. -- proud of them." he highlights violent crimes will promising to tighten bail laws and crackdown on crime if elected. from jane's great town -- james in boca raton, you are next. caller: good morning, pedro. with the upcoming midterm elections, i vote based on the person, not the party. point number one, why do c-span not start at 6:00 in the morning? you seem to be cramped for time. point number two, is your job to -- is your job full-time or part-time? if it is a part-time

job, what a great job. host: i don't know why 6:00 is a certain time for you. why do you think we should start at 6:00? caller: i think you need more time. you always seem to be cramped for time. you have these segments and they just go by so fast. in other words, you need more time. so, why don't you start at 6:00? host: thank you for this digestion. to answer your other question about the full-time job, every hook that you see here -- every host that you see here, this is just a small thing that we do. we each have several of the jobs in the company that they take care of, on top of the job they do with hosting this program. so, just so you know. this is from james in richmond, virginia, democrats line. hello. caller: yes, sir. these don't cut me off too soon. i have been listening to you all ever since you all started the

c-span show. i have seen the trends come and go, and i am not here this morning to criticize, i am here to try to uplift, if i can. the principles behind the gentleman with the ku klux klan preview or whatever it was, you all are -- the lord is basically going to take care of all of those things, if we can find him , or we have to go ahead into what we don't have and figure out what we do have, and see if we can start from the bottom or a core understanding of human beings. because we are running the whole entire planet into the ground with this racism, education,

denial, all of the things that real human beings do not think this way. something is wrong with the people. host: ok, that is james there in virginia, finishing off this set of open forum. thanks to all of you who participated. you may have heard of the group, the person, the philosophy generally known as qanon. our next guest talks about the origins of this and what it does, and how it plays out in modern-day politics. neil bloom is from georgia state university. she is a professor. she looks inside the minds of qanon, next on "washington journal." ♪ >> listening to programs on

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later, from indiana, incumbent senator todd young debates thomas mcdermitt. republican governor brian temp goes against stacey abrams. don't miss a single moment on c-span, and take us with you on the go with c-span now, our free mobile video it. also be sure to go to our website for all midterm election coverage on demand. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. >> there are a lot of places to get political information, but only at c-span do you get it straight from the source. no matter where you are from or where you stand on the issues, c-span is america's network. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. if it happens here, or here, or

here or anywhere that matters, , america is watching on c-span. powered by cable. >> washington journal continues. host: this is mia bloom p chi is the professor communication's at middle state georgia university. she is also a co-author inside the mind of qanon. me up bloom, thank you for joining us. -- mia bloom, thank you for joining us. host: how did you get interested in this topic? guest: before january 6, i was approached by the national foundation and in the pentagon, because the director of the fbi had identified qanon as having the potential for terrorism. because i had been working on terrorism for over three decades, they thought i was well-placed to examine it. i started looking at it and it was really after january 6 that one doctor and i decided we were

going to explain what qanon was in sort of compare it to terrorist groups that we were very familiar with. host: so, in the best way possible for our audience to understand, what is qanon? guest: a basic understanding of qanon is that it is a baseless conspiracy theory that alleges that there is a global cabal, or like marjorie taylor greene likes to say, "cable," and they have been manipulating and pulling the strings. this cabal has been trafficking in children, sexually abusing them, and drinking their blood. the other part of the conspiracy argues that donald trump was the only person who could take the power of this cabal. a lot of qanon is intimately connected with amplifying donald trump as a kind of savior. host: when it comes then to the

supposed cabal, how did qanon get so much traction here in the united states and other parts of the world? guest: a lot of qanon, and we explain this in the book, there's years and years, going back as far as 100 years, of anti-semitism, anti-catholic propaganda, anti-people of color. in other words, a lot of what is an qanon existed before. what qanon was able to do was repackage it as a new conspiracy, then also act almost like a singularity that all the other conspiracy theories pulled in. the fact that it was very embracing of pre-existing and adjacent conspiracy theories, at the same time that we saw lockdowns in march of 2020, that was when there was a massive uptick in qanon support and posting, and people who subscribed to it, as much as a

600% increase. it is very hard to desegregate the popularity of qanon with what was going on during the pandemic. host: for some, it is more of a religious movement that a conspiracy theory. there is a core set of beliefs that stem from revelations in text. in this case, that text did not appear on stone tablets handed down, but based on racist memes and manifestoes of mass shooters. can you elaborate on that? guest: the beginning of qanon in october 2017 starts on the underbelly of the internet, called for chan -- 4chan. they recognized in cells and gamer gate, and nazis. they were all, to use the term, deplorable. but from these discussion

platforms, to instagram, facebook, twitter, that is when it starts seeping into many of our friends and family. i'm running to the institute for the study of religion that did a survey, it could be as many as 30 million american adults who believe some part of qanon, they believe in this conspiracy, which would make it more popular than many religions in the united states. we do have to take it seriously, but we also have to understand that we are not talking about the next isis. host: his cue in person? -- is qanon a person? guest: no, whoever was posting in queue, which according to their lower, was an insider with a very high security clearance, which is where the q comes from.

we now know from various document arrays on hbo and i think there have been other places as well, it is probably ron watkins or jim elkins -- jim watkins, who is the owner of 8kun. i think they probably assumed that if they on earth or unasked -- unmasked whoever was behind qanon, it would end the message appeared but what would happen is that it is irrelevant now. whoever started qanon, it has taken on a life of its own. three weeks ago, president trump seems to have embraced qanon. while he has kept them at arms length for the entirety of his presidency, from october 2017 on, he has now recently started reposting on truth social qanon memes, referring to himself as q plus, which is how he -- which

is how they refer to him. host: if you have questions, you can call the lines. it is (202) 748-8001 for republicans, (202) 748-8000 for democrats, and (202) 748-8002 for independents. if you are a follower and you want to talk about your beliefs, you can call (202) 748-8003. you can also use that number to text us questions or comments as well. you mentioned president trump was recently at a rally, professor bloom. one of the storylines that came out of this rally was not to much what he said, but the music that was used during the rally. i want to play viewers a little bit of that music and get you to elaborate on that. >> ♪ >> it is time to start talking about greatness for our country.

one people, one family, one glorious american nation. with the help of everyone here -- host: professor bloom, the music that was playing was connected to qanon as a theme song. guest: he has been playing that song, called "mirrors." it is the theme song for qanon. he has been repeatedly playing it. initially, the campaign denied it, but he keeps playing it. it really is just in conjunction with the audience response, holding up the singer, which by the way does look a lot like isis, because that is what isis used to do. it is very important that we understand that president trump, for a very long time, was playing footsie with qanon. he saw them as his most loyal

support base. during the debate when he was asked about qanon, he was saying he did not know much about them, but they like him. i thing it is important that we understand that politicians are using these people who have belief systems, and this is what i want to say to the audience, including the people who do believe in queue and on. it is very possible that many people got pulled into qanon because they thought they were helping children, that they came to it from what we consider to be a variable touristic and good place. i don't want to say that just because the conspiracy itself is racist and anti-semitic and homophobic and all of these things, a lot of the people that will pull down the rabbit hole are not necessarily racist, homophobic, anti-semitic individuals. i think we need to desegregate the conspiracy theories and

influencers of this, versus good-natured people who thought that by becoming involved, by posting, by amplifying the message, they thought they were helping children. that is the important distinction i want to make. host: to that last point you made, there was a story connected initially to qanon. there was a pizza place here in the washington, d.c. metro area that was brought to light as far as that area of concern. guest: it's interesting. pizza gate predates queue and qanon started in october 2017. with the data from the wall street journal, when you look at support for qanon, it was relatively flat from october 2017 until march 2020. but starting one year later, october 2018, they started showing up at trump rallies, initially in florida, holding up giant signs. while i do think that at the outset trump did not know very much about cumin on, very quickly it was hard to ignore

these people with the giant q signs or the q on their chests. this is where at least the most cynical of republicans have been recruiting or grooming qanon to make sure that they vote for them. we saw, for example, kevin mccarthy was initially very opposed to marjorie taylor greene. he was donating money to her opponent. another she is in position, and once she got the vote in the primary, they went fully behind her. as you see now, she is a rising star in the gop. part of it, i think, is very instrumental, very cynical, but i think we also need to understand it is very dangerous for democracy. host: first call for our guest is daniel from buffalo, iowa. you are on with professor mia bloom from georgia state university. good morning. caller: good morning. can you hear me? host: you are

on. go ahead. caller: i am an independent. i don't really take sides, but i will say that maxwell and the epstein thing, that give them a little more fruit to the qanon thing. nobody has investigated that. and nobody wants to talk about that. i have seen both of them sitting in the queens chair. i have seen them hang out with the highest politicians, the richest people in the world, and nobody wants to explain that. but somehow, the qanon people are crazy, but nobody wants to talk about the actual facts. host: ok, that is daniel in iowa. guest: daniel, i think you are 100% right. we talk about it in the book. the basis of every conspiracy has to have a tiny kernel of truth. we are all going to be on the

same page, to say that we don't like child trafficking. we don't like the fact that the lane maxwell and jeffrey epstein and woody allen and harvey weinstein, the fact is there were very powerful people who take it vantage of young girls and have done horrific things. we are on the same page there. i think where i sort of disagree with the qanon level is that there is this global conspiracy or cobol to keep it quiet. but they did not keep it quiet. we are talking about it now. i think where i said initially that many people may have been drawn to qanon because they thought they were doing the right thing and that they were helping, in the book, we acknowledge the fact that these things do happen. jeffrey epstein was a horrific criminal. this is where we need to pay

attention to the fact that there's going to be little tiny bits of truth to any conspiracy, but it is where it goes next, and this level of trafficking in children, raising them, drinking their blood to stay young and youthful. some of that is where it really screams could you live he. another thing i want to say is this issue of crazy. i think some of what the qanon ideology says is crazy, but i am hesitant to say that everyone who is willing to believe qanon is a crazy person. first of all, you have got a lot of different kinds of people who believe in qanon. people with higher education, advanced degrees, people who are professionals. i think it is important that we make that distinction that i don't want to with broad brush strokes say that they are all a bunch of looney tunes. host: this is michelle in florida, democrats line. caller: hello, can you hear me?

host: you are on, go ahead. caller: yes, i am 76 years old. i just wanted to express my concern about the democratic, republican, and independent parties. i have seen a lot of politicians over the last several years. this is very frightening, to know that people do not get information from different news media, newspapers. i have six channels that i watch. i see a lot of differences in presentation. examples, msnbc, cnn, fox, oan, nbc, abc, and republic pdf. i watch all of those programs, a

variety of presentations are given. and i cannot understand why people having taught in the school system as counselor and teacher for 30 years overseas, i cannot understand why people are so gullible that they will take a person like donald trump and be a follower. and not think for themselves. host: thank you, michelle. guest: first of all, i want to congratulate michelle. michelle is doing something very few people do, which is getting information from different sources. i think that's part of what we talk about in the book, where we explained that first of all, qanon is telling you to not get your information even from fox news or oan. they say to get your information only from us.

it creates this closed information circle, this echo chamber that just amplifies people's worst instincts. first of all, what michelle is doing is what everyone should do. you should be getting your information from different places, and then make your decisions based on your own reaction to different kinds of information. she quotes qanon, but she's doing her own research. by the same token, in the olden days, when walter cronkite was giving the news, because michelle said she is 76 years old, so she knows who i'm talking about, we did not know what his politics were. what we now have is almost a bespoke information system. if i watch one news channel, i never hear any disconfirming information, only reinforcing what i already believe. that is not really news, it is

more, i guess, infotainment. they are not actually broadcasters or newspeople, they are editorial. i think that is part of the problem. profit motives have spent part of the problem. and then you have the role of, for example, the murdochs. we have seen very different information environments and landscapes than we did 40 and 50 years ago. host: for our guest, our next call is william. let's hear from tom in illinois, republican line. caller: yeah, i am not sure how i really want to point this, but i want to make a couple points. all of these people are conspiracy observers. it makes people seem like they are wackos, almost like they were wackos that thought president kennedy, there was a conspiracy about that.

now we know there is. the government has been lying to us. the other thing that your guests said, it is just a modicum of truth. while, it is true, not just a modicum. linking qanon to the christian faith, the christians are the greatest scientists, hospitals, schools. please don't do that. shame on you. host: that is tom. ms. bloom. caller: i'm not sure where the christian stuff comes in, but i will address it. when the institute for religion broke down the 15% of americans that believe, they don't necessarily self identify as qanon, but they will believe in the statement that there is a global cabal of blood trafficking the empires that are controlling the world. basically, the tenant of qanon. there was a disproportionate number of evangelicals that agreed with that statement. within the evangelical faith, we

have as much as 30% of evangelicals subscribe into it. we do see it in all different religions, although very few muslims and very few jews believe in qanon. most of that is christians. i think where we are differentiating our view on this is that for people who believe in christianity, what qanon is saying resonates. this idea of an up -- apocalyptic over reckoning, storms, a reckoning, which is what they already believe. the people who became evangelicals, they all of a sudden realized it and found the truth, that is also echoed with think. but let me go back and say this for the third time. i am very hesitant to call them, i think you use the term not cases or something. first of all, i am not a psychologist. my co-author is. nobody would ever call a group of people that was just that --

a group of people that. it is just insulting. i think the basic news was that trafficking is bad, and we are all on the same page there. i don't think that there is a cabal of people drinking blood in order to stay young. and i certainly don't think that all the conspiracies are accurate. one of the things about a conspiracy is that it is very hard to keep it under wraps. so, if there was a conspiracy, there would be leakage and we would know about the conspiracy by now. given the fact that the media is really focused on it. but the other thing i want to tell tom is that a lot of what we are seeing in qanon is just plagiarized from hollywood movie scripts. even the "where we go, one we go all," i want you to open netflix and watch 1996's "white school." -- squall."

a lot of qanon is either plagiarized from movies or set by design. host: so if you subscribe to qanon or follow, the number is (202) 748-8003. roy subscribes. caller: saying that there is not a cabal and that people cannot keep a secret, 25,000 people kept the secret of building makes. so that is that right there. but these kids being given to pedophiles and whole bunch of other stuff, the guy that supposedly killed himself, we all know that is not true. but right there proves that it could be kept a secret and you

all are trafficking little kids right now and telling them to pedophiles. host: if you want to stay on that fine -- if you want to stay on, that is fine, but mia bloom, go ahead. guest: let's talk about the u.k. i think what you are talking about is prince andrew, not king charles. we know that prince andrew is a bad actor and he has been protected first by the queen and probably now by prince charles. when we have people who do violate norms of society, whether it eventually comes out, like with woody allen or jeffrey epstein, the gentleman you said did not kill himself, or ghislaine maxwell, or harvey weinstein, we saw that with the #metoo movement. there are certain things you can keep secret, like a nuclear device. you sign paperwork that you have to keep your security clearance, but i think what you are talking about, trafficking children, it

is very problematic. one of the things that we talked about in the book is that we are all against trafficking, so i am with you on this point. but joe biden is not trafficking children, nor are any well-known american politicians. for me, what is very interesting is that you have someone like matt, who is exploiting young girls, and he is the one who is pushing being very righteous about qanon and hanging out with marjorie taylor greene. and i'm looking at people who believe in qanon light, why are you not looking at the people who are actually involved with sex trafficking of children or then mow -- venmoing young girls for sex. i want you to be vigilant and uses passion, but direct in a good way to actually help children. what people who believe in qanon are doing is, it's kind of a distraction. they look at groups and they

attack groups and organizations that really do help children, it in order to obvious gate what's going on. tom, please read the book. at the end, you might feel very differently about what he said on air. host: just to clarify, the washington post a couple weeks ago reporting that matt gaines will probably not be charged, because the witnesses are at fault, just clarify. guest: that is the problem we have been seen for many, many years, like the catholic church, for example. the young boys who were sexually exploited, they would go home and their moms and dads would not believe them. when you are dealing with children, part of the problem is that you are going to say these are kids and they are not reliable witnesses. those of the only witnesses you are going to have. i do think it is important that we fight child trafficking and that we do so together as a country, instead of fabricating

that next level of conspiracy about who is trafficking whom. i think we can all get on the same page that nobody wants to see child trafficking. host: you wrote in the book that q and on might have emerged, but it settled in online spaces and the shift from the encrypted platforms and message boards to the online ecosystem of the service web explain how cunard became a movement. women in qanon made it palatable and may seem motivated by ultra stick instinct to protect children. can you elaborate on that? guest: i mean, you know the first person to down january 6 was ashli babbitt. she was a very passionate supporter of qanon. there was another woman who died. i think that it is not just that you have the gentleman who drove from north carolina to the pizzeria, ping-pong pizzeria in

washington, d.c., to save the children in the basement and there was no basement. women not only made it palatable, but they really made it into a movement. women's groups that supported trump, paid for the buses on january 6, they were the ones amplifying the message. the other thing is, once it came to feminist spaces like instagram, he started to see left-wing people subscribed to qanon. it was not exclusively a right-wing phenomenon. you also had people who had supported bernie sanders or, for example, once it infiltrated into timelines and breast-feeding timelines, influence mom timelines, this is where we have a very diverse group of people in the country that belief, as your colored beliefs, that there is a global conspiracy to sexually abuse children and drink their blood. which, again, when you say it that way, and is easy to believe

that the earth is flat, the moon landing his fate, there are lizard people. about one year ago, there was a gentleman in california. he took his two children to new mexico and killed them, thinking that they had serpent dna and would become monsters. we are seeing a lot of cumin on beliefs wrapped up with some mental illness. as a result of the pandemic, we saw a lot of mental illness in the country. i think it is important that we separate the facts from fiction and the fact that women instinctively want to help children, which is wonderful, but they are being manipulated by some very charismatic individuals that are leveraging their passion, money, and votes. host: new mexico, this is caroline, democrats line. caller: hi. professor bloom, i am so happy to hear you speaking.

i don't know if you have seen the book "big q, little q." a lot of catholic women are listening to this book and this friend who supposedly is speaking to the blessed mother, and a lot of that book had to do with abortion and the end of the world. this is what i think a lot of people are thinking, that there is something going on, that this is toward the end of the world, and it just confuses the heck out of me because i am a devout catholic, but i don't believe in all of that kind of stuff. it is just crazy. it's crazy. host: that is caroline in new mexico. guest: caroline, thank you so much for calling in. i think it is important -- part of the project i've been doing,

as i mentioned, at the beginning, how did i get interested in it? we had a research project, looking at conspiracy contents and qanon contents across 10 different linkages. interestingly enough, a lot of the qanon content is very anti-catholic and anti-pope. it is surprising to me when we see catholics that support qanon, because it is very insulting to the catholic church. keep in mind that there is a long history of abuse in the catholic church. i think we have come to a reckoning. but the doctor, who is a social and trained clinical psychologist, she has skills i do not have, and she talks about why people believe in these things. they do string agility -- credulity in this. a lot of people grew up having a

lot of faith in the catholic church, then you had all these sex scandals. what that really does is challenge people's fundamental beliefs. the other thing is, when i was younger, there were boys and girls. now, we have a very different landscape of non-binary, trans, and another words, we did not grow up with this. if your belief system is being shook, and this is what she talks about, you become more vulnerable to believe something that can explain everything. as far as the end of the world in the apocalypse is concerned, you have got, for example, evangelicals and catholics and people who believe in this sort of end of times that subscribe to qanon because you in on talks about this as well. for them, it is the storm. but we do see an ultimate reckoning in the future. i think it is one of the reasons why it resonates so positively.

but here's the part that really surprised me, caroline. when we are looking at all the different languages in which cumin is being disseminated, with its propaganda, we are seeing hebrews. there are 40 different language channels. it is a very anti-semitic conspiracy. the fact is, even though it is anti-semitic, it is getting traction in the heberling witch. even though it is very racist, it is gaining traction and getting very popular in south and latin america. it is very dangerous and it is very problematic, and it ultimately hurts our mental health, but it also helps our vibrancy as a democracy -- hurts our vibrancy as a democracy. host: here's a qanon follower from new jersey. this is jenny. you are on, go ahead. caller: yeah, ok, miss bloom

comes on here to say she is here to separate fact from fiction, so i am here to put a little fact and take away some of the teams -- that she seems to be spouting. first of all, q is not a bunch of crazy conspiracy-minded people. they are people who have looked into research and think for themselves. in their discoveries of their research, we have found many things. for instance, the democrat and republican party are two heads of the same snake. while we all feel we have a choice in our actions, there is no choice. they all work for the same boss, let's say. secondly, for her to lump everybody into the q movement, anti-semitic, races, all of this, that is in her dream

world, because we are a group of people worldwide who are there for each other, regardless of sex, race, sexual preference. there is none of that that she is spouting right now. all that tells me is that the movement is strong and these people are afraid, and they have got to put somebody like ms. bloom up there to try and disparage the movement and make everybody look like a conspiracy therapist -- conspiracy theorists. host: jenny, i want you to stay on the line. i want ms. bloom to respond to you, and then you can respond to her. guest: first of all, jenny, thank you for calling in. i don't know, maybe i wasn't clear, but what i said previously was that while the propaganda and content that is disseminated on the platforms, like for example the qanon platforms are racist,

anti-somatic, homophobic, the people who subscribe to qanon it may themselves not be anti-semitic, homophobic, basically what you said. i'm going to agree with jenny on the fact that not everybody who believes in qanon is this horrible anti-semitic racist. but when you look at the content, it is very clearly using the reconstruction period after the civil war, for example, this idea that black and brown men are coming for your children. let me go back to what jenny said about doing your own research. the way that q was reformulated is that you would come to a certain outcome. 90 people think they did their own research, but the way the research was being event through the q drop was further you to reach the conclusion they wanted you to reach. the fact that many of the people who are disseminating this stuff, rather it was ron and jim

watkins, influencers like jason galena, you had people who were making money off of this. for example, and all of the parlay q and on information, before it was taken down after january 6 by amazon web hosting, they all had links to funding. there has always been a very financial grip on people, like jenny, who may be very well-meaning. jenny, i want to say that people may believe in qanon and not realize that the content is extraordinarily anti-semitic, like with the gentleman before. take a look at the 1996 film "white squall" or "fear and loathing in las vegas" with johnny depp. it is all fake. i want to empower jenny and

other people to do their research, but not only get their information from the q drop. host: jenny, go ahead and respond. caller: well, i find it interesting that everything you seem to push into the qanon, first of all, there is no such thing as qanon, so let's get that straight. and for you to say that there was already a preconceived area that we were to look, let me tell you something, i was doing my research two years before q even hit the boards. all q did was confirm, and that was before we were all being suppressed on information. i was doing my own research long before q even hit the boards, and all q did was confirm what i had already been researching. back then, you can get on the sites on the internet to do

research for different things in history that we have been lied to about. now, all that information is suppressed, so anybody joining into this q movement now doesn't have access to that information. host: jenny from new hampshire, thank you for the call and staying on with our guest. guest: let me follow up with jenny on the issue of suppression, which is that reddit band the subreddits about qanon and a lot of the california-based social media companies have pulled platforms, too. that was the fact that it was considered to be dangerous. it is truly bad for people's mental health. let me explain, jenny, i am looking at the same stuff you are looking at. i am seeing it is very traumatizing, very triggering, horrible images and horrible stories. i can totally understand why

somebody would be so impassioned to want to save the children if they sell this content. it is horrific. but it is also fabricated. while you might perceive it as the q drop, there are lots of people who, when they discovered or thought they had figured it out, there were different kinds of physiological experiences that you're going to have that make you feel good about yourself that you figured it out and nobody else did. these dopamine receptors are what are pinging because the qanon influencers, whether it is watkins, galena, or whoever, or general michael flynn, they have modified this. -- demonfied this. please read the book and you may change your view. host: how money people come to a place where they leave qanon? guest: we have been seeing ebbs

and flows. for example, after january 6, there was a bit of a decrease in support for what qanon was pushing. jenny is right, they were told not to use the term qanon. that is why i said they do not self identify as qanon, but they agree with the biggest concepts of trafficking children and people drinking their blood. what we are seeing now is an uptick again because president has embraced q and on. they have been very explicit on truth social about posting videos, images, and propaganda. they previously referred to him as q plus. he is now self identifying as q plus. i think going back to jenny's comments about there's not a lot of difference between the republicans and democrats, i think that president trump sees people who believe in qanon as

an ideology or a mass movement as his most loyal and dedicated fans. but also, he is trying to restrict financial benefits -- extract financial benefits from his loyal base. there is always a financial grip. what i have been saying for two years is, follow the money. who has benefited financially from the merchandise, from promoting this ideology? that is generally where you will see who is in charge. host: the book is called "pastels and pedophiles: inside the mind of qanon." mia bloom, thank you for your time today. guest: thank you so much for having me. i really hope that those people who believe in a qanon, first, let me say thank you. feel free to continue to engage. host: later on today, the united nations general assembly has an emergency meeting, taking a look at the events of ukraine, probably over the missile

strikes in the last 24 hours. you can see that at 3:00 this afternoon on c-span, c-span.org, and our app at c-span now. that is it for the program today. another edition of "washington journal" comes your way at 7:00 tomorrow morning. we will see you then. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2022] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> here's what's coming up live today on c-span. top army leaders will discuss national security and modernization efforts during a news conference at 11:45 a.m. eastern. this afternoon, the u.n. general assembly holds an emergency meeting to discuss russia's latest annexation of parts of

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