your name. amen. the speaker pro tempore: pursuant to section 5 of h.res. 1396, the journal of the last day's proceedings is approved. the chair will lead the house in the pledge of allegiance. i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. the chair lays before it's a communication. the clerk: the honorable the speaker, house of representatives mavment dam, pursuant to -- representatives. madam, pursuant to the rules of the u.s. house of representatives, the clerk received the following message from the secretary of the senate on october 17, 2022, at 10:58 a.m. appointments, board of trustees of the american vocalized center of the library of congress.

signed, sincerely, cheryl l. johnson, clerk. the speaker pro tempore: pursuant to section 1 of house resolution 1230, the house stands adjourned until 11:00 a.m. on friday, october 21, 2022. a lot of books have came out in the past year or so. what makes the divider different from those other books? guest: the first book and only one so far that is the history

of the trump administration. we saw it was important not just to write about the catastrophic ending from the trump presidency in 2020, but to understand how we got to that place in many ways. the violent of combination of the four euros salt of the american democracy. it was based on more than 300 interviews that we did all after trump was in office. host: both of you have a lot of access to people when trump was in access. guest: there was a four-year marathon to report in real-time everything we possibly could in the new york times.

when he was done and it was over, we left town and decided it was not enough. we had to go back. it was so much left on the table. people are more willing to talk after the presidency is over. maybe try to rewash their own reputation. they do in a book format that they would not do for a newspaper story. i think you have a broaden and widen story. host: let me go to page 648, you write this, trump emerged from a 700 defeat to january 6 insurrection as the dominant force in the republican party. why and how? guest: that is one of the

incredible stories of our time. the reshaping of the republican party into a instrument for one man. if anything, we both have proven that case even more. trump, unlike anyone term resident who was turned out by the voters has maintained at holdover republican party. he has turned his own election -- into a litmus test for republican candidates. the number is actually closer to 400. it is all in direct consequence of his hold on republican party. however the story is, we are in the middle of the story. it is clear that trump -- the

takeover of the republican party is going to be part of the historical record. host: the book, as that sentence puts it, a uniter it when it comes to the republican party. guest: it comes in a time when our society is a fracturing. he did not create the positions in our society. we were polarizing already. we as a country is not looking for something to divide us. his chief even said, we do not win this election to bring the country together. that was not their goal. he was a divider, of not only his administration, by his party. i think it is a unique situation. every politician is about dividing weird you have to have ng. division is part of the game.

there is a understanding that the responsibility is greater to bring the country together. host: how many interviews did you have with donald trump p? host: we had two interviews with trump. one in the private office that the fbi searched earlier this year. the first one was held in the lobby in mar-a-lago where he held many of his book interviews. he seemed to want to have a show and show off with this paying members. he would interrupt -- hello folks, how are you today. it really was a stage set. it took on a interview in many

ways. trump has not given an interview in a since you are having a conversation and we ask a question. donald trump just sort of talked . not surprisingly, a lot of what he said was complaints about 2020 along with insoles up just about every single person we asked about -- insults about every single person we asked about. host: guest: it is an interesting question. donald trump was not very quotable in the interview that he is reprising grievances that he said many times. he is a believer in marketing and the power of repetition. he seemed to believe that the more he said something, even if it is untrue, the more effective that is for him. as a author, i said it is

valuable for us to see the subject in action and taking insight in the way. i think the main take away is that, he is trying to sell us and also the american people on a series of lies by repeating them over and over again. host: when you did the interview, did he know the title of the book? guest: now, we did not decide it. we decided it a few months before we turned it in. i think he knew we were authors. i think he understood we were independent journalist. we talked to other authors as well. it is a love-hate relationship that he has with the media. on the one hand he will trash us. fake news. he can't lay off, either. he has this confidence that he

can charm and talk anyone into his point of view. i think he did at this particular time of his post presidency he wanted to talk, he wanted someone to listen to him. he wanted to define history, even if we did not write it the way he wanted it. he is not a reliable witness. a generalist goes in to interview someone -- journalist goes in to interview someone. you can rollout him counting. it is not going to square with anyone else's accounting. host: is it that reports have not been able to do that with him yet? it is a matter of coming in with the fact that you are prepared. guest: that would be nice. here's an example.

it is like it is extremely unlikely that donald trump will ever testify before the january 6 committee under oath. we asked him a simple question about january 6. he contradicts himself three times in two minutes when it came to a very important question of, why did you say that in your speech that you would go up to the capital. he said, the secret service would not let me. 30 seconds later, he said no, i never asked them. 30 seconds later, they never let me. it is not a question that donald trump can't keep a story straight into cannot hold the truth. it is revealing in its own way. host: the book, the co-authors

are here to take your questions. your comments about the book. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. and dependence, (202) 748-8002. they are with us until 10 east end. go ahead and start calling in now. what is the biggest question left in your mind about the trump presidency? the time he left office to the time he got in the office. what do you want to know? guest: we do not ever know if we will ever get to the bottom of it, not sure if anyone will, his relationship with russia. he likes to go around saying russia is a hoax. there is a unanswered question about why he was so admiring to vladimir putin. he never really answered. we got a lot of theories of this.

he admired people who were strong in his view. that is where his litmus test. that was his mindset. his former lawyer said it is always about money with him. they got money from russia. that explains his relationship with putin. even if there's not a criminal conspiracy, it is a unexplained relationship that does not make a lot of sense to people. who wondered about it, president trump's own appointed. he thought maybe putin would have -- something on it. host: the moment that you are describing. the director of national

intelligence at the time had such a extraordinary ent it changed his view of the allegations against trump and russia. i never could come a conclusion. it raised a queioin everybody's mind, what is putin has on him? the head of the intelligence community, even after 16 months in office, access the nation's most sensitive speakers did not answer that question. host: i think that is a significant moment for us. he was no liberal. he was a longtime republican senator. he was chief of staff. his own people provided this testimony. that is what the book itself overall found. these are all trump owned appointees. nonpartisan officials appeared many of them very strongly right

wing conservatives who choose to work for donald trump. not so striking when you look at the four-year story, you see that playbook of trump repeating himself over and over again. donald trump likes to kind of aides, those who will work for him and those who used to work for him. he wanted to hire people who he thought would do anything that he told them to do. he had no loyalty for those he hired. this is an extremely consequential question. i think that his marketing skills, repeating something untruthful over and over again in the hopes that it will solidify people's impressions

has obscured the fact that his campaign and presidency were so filled with remarkably unusual behavior towards one of american cheap adversaries. it is not normal for a american presidential campaign to have any contact with russia. never mind that your son is taking meetings with people who claim to be very -- on the behalf of the russian government support for you. it is all on a written email key evidence. donald trump wanted to withdraw the united states from nato. the u.s. came much closer and is commonly understood to withdraw from nato. imagine if trump would have gone through that and you see russia's invasion of ukraine today. the amount of support that the united states is offering ukraine in this war. donald trump has publicly since leaving office since approving the invasion of ukraine, drum

has come out publicly against that data in ukraine. trump has said that putin was a genius for launching this. the potential consequences are extraordinary. host: "the divider". the questions will start in birmingham, alabama. and dependent. mark? i am caller: i am in huntsville, alabama. i have not read the book. my observation of people who seem to adore donald trump in alabama, in particular. i can say anything other than,

the man, he always seems to be this person. i am not sure. i grew up in brooklyn, new york. then just following his life, he had a nice little run with the apprentice. he is just, the person. this is who he is. the individual that i speak to on a regular basis here, and does not matter. he represents what they want. or they will say that they do not want authoritarian type person, but the types of ideas and desires that they have towards people who aren't on their team, i will say it like that. in alabama you have to throw

alabama off. that is the kind of individuals that conservatives seem to want. for those who are diehards. unless there is something that he has done to affect them personally, it does not matter. host: he has a really good point. he is who he is. part of what he is saying is, we should not be surprised what happens in presidency because it was a function of who he was for 70 years 40 arrived at the white house. he had a long career business. he had a long career in entertainment. a lot of the things in the white house could have been predicted. he was constantly litigated with people he did not pay. he was constantly getting in fraud allegations and other things. he was constantly playing racial politics as a celebrity person. the apprentice, all of those

legends and mythology. a lot of the things we saw in the presidency could have been foreshadowed or seen if he studied his career, which a lot of people have done. people did not care. they wanted someone who was a fighter for them and spoke up for them in their view. he was that guy. he has done a remarkable job creating this persona of a new york billionaire with goldplated bathroom fixtures. the average people who are out upset about the elites. host: dueling houston texas, good morning -- in houston, texas. good morning. caller: good morning. i read the man who ran washington. excellent books.

you guys are writing about politicians who were republicans. i did not know which side of the aisle you guys were on. i got to the divider, it kind of sounds like a compilation of all of the books that trump ai des and enemies written during his presidency. it was a lot of details and interviews appeared i'm just not . i am just not sure how soon it could came out after his presidency ended. i want to know, how is it that you two are able to put this material out so soon after trump came out of office. again, i am not sure how well it

can educate the average person who just wants a base moderate version of the events that happened. guest: we appreciate your reading. thanks for buying the book. i have to say, this is a very interesting -- feared it is the same people who wrote these books, we are a nonpartisan independent journalist. the problem with trump, it is a ongoing story. for our willing to accept -- the same people who wrote independent nonpartisan books about tim baker two years later, how is it possible we could be the same people because we are writing about someone the republicans liked. without it was very important -- we thought it was very important

to write this down. why? many of the events chronicled are unbelievable. it is hard for many partisan republicans to accept or delay the entire history of the united states, democrats and republicans -- let the anti--- in the entire history of the united states, democrats and republicans, we never had a president refused to accept the election. that has not ever happen. that represents a challenge to the basic principles in the constitution. it is not about a policy dispute or dispute over who has what power or what kind of health care policy we have. the point about, is it partisan? all of these sources in our book who weren't partisan security officials, every person in the book was republican. it is a partisan history because that is who the sources are

republican folks with donald trump. those are the ones who provided historical records. host: when i asked earlier, you called it divider, united of the republican party. you think that is not the case he is a united of the republican party? guest: i would say that the republican party has gotten aboard some more willingly than others. we wanted a reason that trump seemed to take over in context of a so quickly, the republican party was divided. it has now lost seven out of the last eight elections in terms of the berlin vote. you essentially -- popular vote. he had a war in the parties leadership. remember, there were 17 other candidates. donald trump did not need to

win. he did not win a majority of the popular vote of americans either. i think of a conversation we had in the book, with republican senator lindsey graham, which is one of the biggest critics of donald trump. he said he was the most unsuited person to be president. later, he flip-flopped and became one affairs public cheerleaders. he told us trump was a lying -- but a whole lot of fun to hang out with. host: line for democrats. good morning. you are next. caller: my question is, why can trump get by with so much and people know.

he is a liar and a cheat. he has done it anything that you can think up. yet, he is still in office when he needs to be in prison. who else in the united states can get by with one thing he has done? he has divided our country. it blows my mind how republicans -- with him like he is some kind of a god. the people that are backing him knows exactly what he is and who he is. yes, they stand up for him like he is some kind of a god. the more people a person is. -- people a person is. -- evil a person is. guest: he is a unique character. there has not been someone who has survived so many scandals

and still lived to tell the tale. think about that. lost the popular vote twice. the first president since benjamin harrison to lose the popular vote twice. that is not something that any other president has done. when jimmy carter lost, americans did not want anything to do with him. chum has managed -- trump has managed scandal after scandal because people do see him as a victim. he has portrayed himself that way. he placed politics very well. when they see these reports, he has conditioned them to believe it is all part of a hoax and witch hunt. he has told them not to believe

the media. i do not know if it works for anyone else. host: halfway through our interview. the book again "the divider". it came out september 20. i do not know if you hurt one of the colors from our previous segments. he had concerns about some of our reporting. saying it had not been released in real time. it could have had a impact in real-time. he was talking about the covert reporting. your book, let's take what he writes with your book. like other authors of trump books, they have faced criticism involving antidotes which they might have withheld. did that happen? guest: that is not true.

it is very interesting that people make expressions like that and it is not true. what is fascinating to me, you have anxiety on the left beard on the one hand, donald trump has mentored more scandals -- anxiety on the left, on the one hand donald trump has been through more scandals. you know a lot of this material because of the hardware of so many journalists -- hard-working of so many journalist. what exactly did people think was going to happen? peter and i felt it was important for the historical record to add to that historical record as much as possible. i am surprised as many of tromso critics would not want people to

keep digging and digging and to find out more information. there is more to find out. not only are these questions about trump and put in the, many questions, i'm sure we will be learning about stories about this unprecedented attack on american institution for many years. host: none of the new relic relations was withheld. guest: there's a valley of doing a book length version of a presidency -- there is a book length version of presidency. we did report months in advance of our books. we did a story -- how he

basically refused to fight his father, even though he knew that the election had been won fairly and squarely by joe biden. guest: i year and a half before our book came out -- a year and a half before our book came out. there is a value putting a book together that last longer than a single newspaper article. it has more effect if you put together the entire story of the presidency. one reason because he has gotten away is because it is one off stories. you need a version of this to see how it all comes together. you cannot do that in a single newspaper. people talk for a book in the way they do not talk for a

newspaper article. a lot of sources would like to have a more thoughtful extended conversation that they know is not meant to be in the very next day's newspaper. you get information because you are doing the book, you would not have gotten it if you walk in the same room. can you go back and say i do not think that has actually happened? guest: we have spent many of hours with the sources. this is important to get much as historical record as much as possible. we have some people come back three times for interviews. four times. we went back for fact checking. we went back to clarified details. i feel it is an extremely urgent project. i hope that people do do this. it is appointed to get testimony

while it is available -- it is important to get testimony while it is available. some of the sources you were not able to speak with after the immediate aftermath, by the time a year later came and donald trump has not left the scene and still exercising power, some of the republicans were more weary. it is important to take testimony never you can take it. host: independence. good morning. caller: good morning. you know, in terms of lincoln, you have to get the facts right. i think that is the component of all journalistic. if you put it out there, it will

potentially underline it. it is very important to get this on the record. as a independent, maybe we should look a little at the trump doctor from the standpoint of how we look at ceos -- trump standpoint from how we look at ceos and give them immunity cards for so many elements of bad behavior. the author name is david. the book focuses on ge's history. in large part, it shows and demonstrates that america holds ceos in such a good place immunity, that we are willing to give them anything, especially the blue-collar folks who were the trump supporters.

i am wondering how much has made it into your narrative. i have not read the book yet. i think it is a critical thing, especially as we have given capitalism this anointed thing. i think that is what a lot of chump voters want to have happen. -- trump voters wanted to happen. democrats can see this. we give grounds while they double down. host: i think the interview you are talking to ryan lam about the podcast. is that what you are referring to? caller: yeah. host: available anywhere you could get your podcast. guest: thank you for the kind words. he does have a real insight.

when it comes to the case of donald trump, you do have to look at all of the men in question. peter listed out some of them that accompanied trump throughout his business career before he entered politics. he had a repeated history of question -- questionable dealings. some of his early real estate deals in new york city, he and his father were taking -- taken to court when he was a young man over the question of whether there was racial discrimination in their housing. one of the themes of donald trump's life that predates his political career is his question of the lack of accountability. he would repeatedly called on actions that he never held accountable for. when i was editor of political, we actually convened that there were five excellent biographies

of donald trump done. that was very unusual because he was such a big rigor in new york city -- he was such a big figure in new york city. in the 1970's, he was already doing investigative reporting about donald trump. the theme of a lack of accountability. the ability to be investigated but get off again and again. all of that is a real remind -- mind of donald trump. i think that is why no one ever called him to account. guest: we did a good job of reinventing his image of the

bankrupt casino offer to this ceo who always has the right answer and has a chance to do business. our desire for the great ceos. all of these politicians who just pander. i think that is true. i think that was part of the appeal that trump managed to tap into. we never had a ceo as a president who had no political experience. he was the first in our history who never served in the military. he comes in as a ceo of a company -- family-owned company. no shareholders, no one to answer to. that is where he discovered that it was in fact that way. you see in our book where he is snapping his fingers and things do not happen.

our friend has a book coming out next month about jack welsh. check him out. it is a great book. harold holzer has 180 videos. peter baker, 60 videos in the c-span archive. host: continued is next. republican. caller: good morning cleare i g. it is difficult it seems for people to separate policy from personality. i do not like a lot of trump

rhetoric. there is a lot of things. i like his policies. i am a retired person. right now i have lost 25% of my retirement savings. i am living on a fixed income. i am tired of all of the politicians playing me for a full. talk about lies. the border is secure, are you kidding me? what i like are the policies. that is so much more important than personality. accountability and his questionable businesses. -- come up with any criminal

charges, made several cases. there is no victim in anything he did in new york. i'm so tired of it because it is not important to people who are trying to raise a family, get their kids educated, get a good job, the able to save enough to pass something on to their children. host: i think we have your point. guest: think a further caller. a classic reason why donald trump is receiving their support of his republican party despite having a minority of republican voters who were uncomfortable with donald trump's personal style, lying, bullying, tweeting, rhetoric, but stuck with him anyway. if you believe that the other side is at worst or their

policies are worse, they are willing to put up with a flawed candidate. we are seeing that play out in the georgia senate race where you have a republican nominator deeply flawed and accused of being a antiabortion candidate who paid for abortion for his formal girlfriend. yet, republicans are sticking by him. this demonization of the other side is part of the reason. i would actually live around and make a couple of observations. it is interesting that the voters who support trump, his lying, trump in fact has been transactional as a political figure. he was a democrat before he was a republican. he switched parties five different times, that we could count. he was pro-choice before he was antiabortion. he was in favor of gun control. he has viewed policies in a way

he has viewed other issues, in a transactional way. he was willing to make a bargain. he saw where the center of focal gravity in the republican party. he did make in some ways, the deal with mitch mcconnell and other christians in which he would give them the possibility to transform the federal judiciary and the supreme court. that was one of the transactions he made. not out of some ideological commitments. he showed in some ways how we can overstate the role in policy in american politics. he was opposed to many of the things that all three of us would have set our core principles of this modern republican party. things like free trade and being tough on russia's support and alliances for overseas.

donald trump opposed a lot of those things. with often over seek the role of policy in american politics. guest: she is not allowed to live the state attorney general for the most part. that is not correct -- not her job. she did make a referral to the federal prosecutors to look into the allegations. host: line free democrats. -- for democrats. thanks for waiting. caller: republican politicians to nominate a dictator for president.

donald trump syndrome. for the country to move forward, we must come forward and move forward rather than backwards. how do you think donald trump would respond to my theory? guest: you know. he is not about coming together. that does not work for him. he had opportunities. because he is so ideologically flexible, there was hope that he could read someone to work across lines. he was a democrat and a republican. he is from new york. he is not a super hard-core conservative. you could not operate in new york that way. therefore, he could be the guy who brought a party together. that is not what he chose to do.

he chose to go right because that was the people who stood with him. his view is come i'm going to stick with the people who stuck with me. he did not believe in working with democrats. the trick is, he is never going to be that kind of politician. maybe not any politician can do that in today's era. he talked about times where he has seen divisiveness where people did not like him. he is not out there score gauging people and -- people the way that trump did. host: we have a little over 10 minutes left in our conversation. the book, "divider".

it is your third book together. as you are writing these books, how do you split up the work? is one of the more of a researcher, is the other a writer? guest: we have done them each differently. we came with a outline and split up the chapters. i researched and wrote half of the chapters. we edited the others at work. it is a collaborative process. host: let's talk about the chapters. some of the titles include john bolton's war, the summer of crazy. guest: often after lunch we would sit down and throw out

titles. they changed a lot over the course. which is actually kind of fun as the chapters change in the way we framed them and as the information changed. guest: one of the models for this was our very first book together with vladimir putin. the book that we did, kremlin rising, in some ways it was the idea that it was over the course of a number of years as putin comes to power. and it seems to re-consolidate power in the kremlin. he attacks the institution and it takes over the independent media. it was chronological.

that is what we try to do with this book. it is a chronology. you start at the beginning in january 2017. also trying to go deep on things like the public response or foreign policy in trump and russia. host: we can probably do another hour on kremlin rising. with less than two minutes left, hollywood, florida. caller: thank you for taking my call. i am 73 years old. i have hispanic. i am a wounded vietnam veteran. i was not able to vote in vietnam because i was too younger in 1960. i take elections seriously. i always trusted the elections i had participated in, except for

the last one. the reason i am concerned about the last election, was there were several states who violated their own state constitution and disregarded their own laws in regards to their elections. as a result of that, we -- a nation of laws. i hear that term a lot. those laws were disregarded. when you disregard the law, you disregard the constitution. you leave yourself open for all other kinds of nefarious actions. guest: that is the certainly they concern a lot of americans have because they have been propagated by president trump. a lot of the concerns you mentioned, the court actually did look into these complaints. the court said they were done

fine. if they were continual complaints, they would be litigated in court. there's a difference between policies, how much to run versus a practice of how much has happened. we can have a disagreement about what our policies should be in mail in votes, we should have more or less, more or fewer drop boxes. there has been no evidence of any kind that suggest that changed the outcome. there is no evidence of widespread fraud that changed the election. not zero. guest: i think i would add another important point. for those who say they are supportive of the rule of law, in a country that judges a

constitutional rule of law, more than 60 lawsuits were filed. donald trump lost all of them because they were no evidence. his campaign failed to put forward any legal basis that there is any question of the 2020 election. if you are for the rule of law led the country, we have a electoral account act. all of the state certified there results. i january 6, 2021, according to the law and the constitution, donald trump was a loser in the election. there should be no basis on having any legal question around the election. host: this is jonathan. line four republicans. you are next. caller: there is so much to unpack. these are two of the most unqualified people to talk about trump i have ever seen on

television. let me get to the point. donald trump said the fake news. what is fake news, partial news. part of the story. it happened in charlottesville? did trump say they are trying to kill black people? no, he didn't. you guys do not know what you are talking about. guest: everybody has a opinion. i appreciate your opinion. this is exactly what trump was trying to do, discredit the media by using phrases like that. he was asked why did you attack reporters all the time, he says when you write something, people will not believe you. they would not believe in independent journalism.

the people who work for trump. the people he himself brought into the white house. this book is not based on partisanship. it is not about democrats and republicans. it is about the people who work for him describing what they saw. that is an important record to have. host: how is the media different from january 2017 through 2021? guest: i would say donald trump unprecedented assault on media was purposeful and cap related in order to discredit potential opponents feared that is why you are seeing this attack on the media. the reason for that is to discredit the institution that could be a rival to undercut the

authority of a political leader like donald trump. to me we have really gone back to first principle in the way. because trump represents a unique challenge to constitutions, including the institution of our free press. it has been a reverberating reminder of -- reinvigorating reminder of responsibility. i think it has been a very important moment of getting back the first rentable's and understanding it is our job to take this kind of -- first -- understanding it is our job to take this kind of responsibility. if you did not have a journalist persisting despite the threats. there were incredible threats. donald trump purposely revved up his reporters. journalist had to have security

to protect them at the rally. donald trump was inciting violence against journalists. despite that, there was important as search by journalists over four years to find out what was happening and it to witness. i think it is a very important time where generalist has reverted in some ways of understanding the importance of their role in a society where rights and freedom are under threat. host: does the white house cover joe biden different than donald trump? guest: joe biden is different than donald trump. you do not want to press to create a false equivalence where every president is the same. you report what you see in front of you. you report what your sources tell you to reports. the facts that you gather.

the facts in the stories about donald trump are different than they are about joe biden. we should be tough on joe biden. we are tough on joe biden. it is our jobs. we are not at war. donald trump wanted to be our opponent because it was convenient. we are not the opposition. we are reporting the facts and the truth we find. host: people see your byline on a story that says news analysis. what is the difference? guest: that is a fair question. it is not a easy defying thing. it is a way of saying opinion. a real analysis if done correctly is not only a opinion, it is fact-based analysis. it is taking the facts we gather and put them in context.

try to put them in framework that people can understand so they can figure out what is going on. it is meant to be, so and so said this, but this is what the facts show. there are litigations that are going on behind the scene that you may not see. things like that. it is not about declaring good or bad, yes or no. it is about explaining as best as we can the facts. it host: we have time for two more calls. in maryland guest: caller: i keep hearing people call in and discuss the reason why people follow donald trump

or are so into donald trump. and as a black man, i speak to my friends and family and other people. the reason they follow donald trump is not because of his policies were anything like that. people follow donald trump because he gives them a voice. he allows them to be racist and openly racist. he has given that community who wanted to be heard -- now they are being heard. he has opened up a door. guest: i want to thank you for that. i do think that racial division and stoking the fires of racial division were a key reason why donald trump was an actor in which we look at how he sought to use calls for law and order,

what we think is about heart of the donald trump is as a politician. remember, when he entered american politics it was largely on the basis of the racist lie about barack obama, his predecessor. even before he entered politics, in the 1980's, there were many, many racial controversies. donald trump waited right into the middle of them. his assessment of his own followers and what they wanted from them as a politician was very similar to what the caller described. that is one of the ways in which trump will be remembered most as a divider in american society because he saw the troubled faultlines and rather than seeking to heal them,