public service along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> coming up this morning on "washington journal," penny nance and annabelle rutledge discuss issues of importance to women in the upcoming midterm elections. then major garrett of cbs news and david becker discuss their book "the big truth, upholding democracy in the age of the big lie." join the discussion with your facebook comments, text messages, tweets, and phone calls. "washington journal" is next. ♪ host: good morning. it is wednesday, october 19, 2022. we are now 20 days from election

day as we continue to focus on the midterms. we will continue by putting the spotlight on our independent viewers. if you identify as a political independent, we want to hear from you about your top issues this election cycle and will do so on phone lines split this way. if you are an independent who is leaning right in this election, (202) 748-8000 is the number. if you are an independent leaning left in this election, (202) 748-8001. and if you are at independent who is undecided -- an independent who is undecided, (202) 748-8002. you can also send us a text. that number is (202) 748-8003. if you do, please include your name and where you are from. otherwise, catch up with us on social media. we are on twitter and facebook. a very good wednesday morning to you. you can start calling in now as we focus this first hour on "washington journal" on our independent viewers. we want to hear your thoughts

this election cycle. some stats about political independence in this country as you call it courtesy of the pew research center finding in a recent poll that 4 in 10 adults identify as political independents, but most lean towards one of the two major parties. only 7% of americans overall do not express the partisan leaning while 13% lean toward the republican party and 17% of independents leading to the democratic party. that is one finding from the report. here is another one interestingly that independents feel negatively about political candidates and parties that the partisans. in the last midterms, similar shares of republicans and democrats set the quality of candidates running for congress in their district the last several elections have been good, but those independents who lead to the parties were much less likely to say so and the pattern holds for other offices as well. in the view of candidates for

president and local election, independent leaders are less likely to write the quality of the candidates positively. that report is sixpacks of political independents from the pew research center. you can find it at pew research.org. we are talking to political independents this morning. we want to know what your top issue is this political cycle. if you are a political dependent who leans to the right, it is (202) 748-8000. if you are a political independent who leans to the left, (202) 748-8001. if you are truly an independent who was undecided, (202) 748-8002. as you continue to call in, there is one independent in a high-profile race this cycle out in utah in the beehive state. evan mcmullen is the independent running against senator mike lee, the republican. this is a story from "the

washington times" today about lee facing hurdles related to donald trump in his reelection effort. here is some of the debate from earlier this week. [video clip] >> there is absolutely nothing to the idea that i would have ever supported or ever did support the fake electors. nothing. not a scintilla of evidence to suggest that but you continue to suggest that with a cavalier disregard for truth. this is sad, public, also entirely consistent with your political party. you have obtained the endorsement of the democratic party. you have raised millions of dollars from the database on which the far left progressive socialist democratic donors can be found, and then you have in the last quarter alone spent $1.6 million feeding the democratic industrial complex.

so it is not surprising to me you would come here today and spill not only lies but lies that are specific to the leftist cause, lies that are specific to the democratic party, and lies that are certainly not applicable to me. yes, there were people who behaved very badly on that day. i was not one of them. i was one of the people trying to dismantle the situation, trying to stop it from happening because i believe wisemen raise up like god to that very purpose. i followed it, studied it to a t. >> you will have 30 seconds in a moment. >> for you to suggest otherwise looks right in the face of truth and the constitution. how dare you, sir. >> you have 30 seconds. >> senator lee has been doing this thing with his pocket constitution the last few years. it is not a prop. it is not a prop. senator lee, the constitution is

not a prop for you to waive about and when it is convenient for your pursuit of power to abandon without a fight. that is what you have done with that, ok? if you are committed to the constitution, stand up for a free and fair election, for the peaceful transfer of power. you voted to certify the election in the last moment in the same way someone does a plot that is not quite working out out to be abandoned. that is what you did forget senator lee is retreating to a safe space. these are his broken politics of right versus left, republicans versus democrat. senator lee, you know i am not a democrat. you are not worried about that. you are worried about the fact that i am an independent and building across partisan coalition of republicans, democrats, and independents and members of third parties to replace you and stand up to broken politics and those in the special interests who like your pockets. that is what i am doing and i know it frightens you because if you could keep us divided, that is how you hold onto power.

you are used to that get we are building across partisan coalition to replace you and it must be done. host: from that debate in utah earlier this week. republican senator mike lee an independent candidate evan mcmullen. asking just independents this first hour of "washington journal" what your top issue is in campaign 2022. we will go to the line for undecided independents this cycle. brian in woodbridge, virginia, good morning. caller: good morning. yes. voting for the quality of the candidate, no matter what party is. but voting for a quality candidate that happened to be democrat, but i am independent. one uses a lot of misinformation and blame people's emotions and ignorance and the other party is

mediocre at refuting the other party's ignorance, inflaming and misinformation tactics. the policies i like voting for, one party is like -- and the other party is like -- both of them are incompetent in varying degrees and different ways so the quality of candidates for both parties is pretty substandard and mediocre. but it seems like the democrats have a few more quality candidates running that the republicans. host: what would you say are your top two issues this election cycle? caller: the top two issues this election cycle would be voting rights, direct voting rights. i am really for one that

everything the legislators get put on the ballot and let the voters vote on all those legislations directly and the legislators be just clerks to deploy and install the voters' will. i think we should have direct democracy. i know that is not an issue being covered in campaigns, but it should be. everything should be put on the ballot and let people decide. the top thing is foreign policy, voting rights, and economic policy. host: thanks for the call from woodbridge, virginia. dan in south carolina, an independent who is leading right in this election. good morning. caller: good morning. host: what are your top issues as you focus on the midterms? caller: i would say the border and the economy. host: dan, as an independent, do

you find displeasure with both parties on those issues? do you often find yourself leaning to the right? is this the first time you are leading to the right in an election? give me some of your voting history, if you don't mind. caller: i left the republican party, but i left the republican party because i saw somebody rhinos and people who would not stand up for what the republican party originally stood for, and that was a more conservative way to approach life. because the republican party what i believed it was, independent was the way to go. i also believe there are democrats that i agree with a lot that they agree with. there is one example of that. being an independent at first

was kind of confronting to me, but as i become more used to the independent way of thinking, the more comfortable i am with it because i can see more clearly two sides and what is of value in those sides rather than being so entrenched in a specific way of thinking that it hides or clouds the big picture, and the big picture for me today is we don't have a country if we don't have a border. that is huge to me. now with the fentanyl coming across the border in the quantities that it is an colored in ways that attacks our children, i am extremely concerned that this government that we have in place right now has abandoned us. they do not care about the sovereignty of the united states of america. so the border is huge.

the economy is huge because i am a senior. i am concerned about what is happening to our retirement. i am concerned as to whether i am going to have to go back to work again and supplement our income because inflation has eaten away what we were going to retire on, so the border and the economy are the two biggest concerns for me. that border and fentanyl scares me to death because i have grandchildren now, and grandchildren of the age that may pick up colorful candy and eat it and die. that is what is happening. we are being poisoned and it is being freely passed across our border with no intervention whatsoever from our present government. host: brad is next in delaware, and independent leaning left this election cycle. go ahead, brad. caller: good morning.

i guess the biggest discriminator for me is the big lie. i am generally an independent who typically leans to the right, but right now my discriminator is that issue so i am leaning a little bit to the left. way biggest priorities are the border and foreign policy, specifically being china, our relationship with china, and the economic fallout of republican policies. republicans since the 1970's have been unable or of both of those issues that are coming to a head right now. the party is not honest with their history. i expected more leadership out of them as i grew up in the 1970's, 1980's, and 1990's very conservative. but republicans would advocate for one thing and behind the doors executed policies that got us to right now the problems we have with china and the economic issues that benefited from

sending our industry to china under republican regimes, under republican policies. the border issue, the republican party has enabled, benefited. the borders have benefited from the flow of immigrants for decades, and now they want to tell us we need to build a wall. they enabled the problem in the first place. host: with your concern about the big lie that you mentioned at the beginning, have you read the book that came out at the end of last month, the big truth? major garrett and david becker, the co-authors of that book. caller: i touched on many sections of that book. i have not read it cover to cover, but i flipped through it. host: those two co-authors will be here in overnight :00 hour this morning so you might be interested in joining us for that discussion. caller: fantastic. i look for at least a half-hour

before i have to plop into work. thanks for that. host: this is roberto next in houston, texas, on the line for independents who are undecided this cycle. what do you think will tip your decision as we are in the 20 day countdown? caller: i am actually -- this question, we should ask ourselves this question, does america still exist? does it really exist? we are split right and left. i am in the middle. i am wanting what is best for america, and we are not thinking this way. we are thinking in terms of the big lie or abortion or some specific issue. we have a country -- we as a country are falling apart financially, politically, and socially. so what am i going to vote for? i want to vote for america, but it is very difficult now. yes, by the way, you did an excellent job yesterday

interviewing peter and i forgot her name all the book. you were excellent yesterday. you should see yourself and do that every day. very analytical. the questions being asked from the audience were excellent. my issue is america. now, i whisper -- i voted for biden, not really provided but for harris. i am against her now after she went to mexico and blurted out "don't come." i would not vote for her for dogcatcher now. i am hispanic. who do you think you are? i am against the biden and harris team. i wish he would change the vice president to someone more attractive. concerning the republicans, there is one person i will never vote for, trump. i am open-minded concerning the other republicans. oh, and i am not open-minded for

those republicans who deny that biden won the election. i will never vote for someone like that. so i am right down the middle. host: if we get to a point, and i don't want to skip estimate terms, but if we get to a 2024 presidential election and your choices from the two major parties are donald trump again or joe biden again, where do you think you would fall? caller: ok. ok. that is a good question. i just really voted and did what i did for the governor's race. i did not vote for either one. that category, i skipped it. i skipped that category and that is what i will do again. i will skip that category. biden, i am sorry, he is senile. there are parts that really worry me about him. if he goes one way or another, we would have harris as president. oh my god, from bad to worse. like i said, i will never vote for trump.

he never should have been president. i gave him the benefit of the doubt when he became president and told myself i will support the president of the united states, republican or democrat, but then he started getting unraveled. what he did for all of us to realize, he revealed himself. he revealed himself. so i am very concerned about the next month election results, but i am glad we americans have two more years to think about this and say, ok, what are we going to do about our country? our country, not our party. not our party, our country. host: that is roberto out of texas. mary is in michigan on the line for independents who are leaning left this cycle. mary, why is that? caller: hi, john. i am calling from michigan and leaning left because the republicans are too radical in this state.

we've got the governor's race, the attorney general, and the secretary of state. all three of them are election deniers. the state of michigan was won by joe biden by 150,000 votes. it was counted three times by the republican representatives in lansing. they still -- the first thing they want to do if they get in power is recount the 2020 election. they are just too radical. host: as an independent, when was the last time you felt republicans were not radical? when was the last time you voted republican? caller: probably george bush. [laughter] in the 2000, george bush. host: but since then, democrat? caller: the governor in michigan, no exception for abortion. she runs from the press. all three of them, they won't

talk to our newspapers. they won't talk to the free press. they won't talk to the detroit news. they don't do interviews. you can't find out any of their platforms or anything. they did have the governor. they did have one debate but it was short, like 45 minutes. just too radical. host: that is mary in michigan. back to the lone star state, this is but in texas on the line for independents who are leaning right this cycle. why is that, russ? caller: basically, i lean mostly right, but i am independent. i did not vote for trump the first time, but i did not vote for hillary either. i voted for the independent from colorado.

knowing that was probably not going to be the winner, but i just could not see voting for either voter choices, and that is what is happening now, is it seems like it is not the choice of who is the best. it is not two good choices. it is the choice of who is better of the bad two contestants. in either party. i liked tulsa gabbert when she was running on the democrat side against biden. i thought she was probably the best choice of the candidates who were there. host: when was the last time you were able to vote for somebody who wasn't the least bad choice but somebody that you actually thought was a good choice? who was the last good choice you

voted for? caller: i don't know that i can remember. i liked bush. i don't think bush was a great president, but i think he had good morals, and that is something we don't see nowadays. i don't -- it is hard to find a candidate it seems like anymore that really has good morals. host: that is russ in texas. talking independents only on this first segment of "washington journal" today, simply asking as we are 20 days out what your top issue is for campaign 2022. if you are an independent leaning left, (202) 748-8001. if you are an independent leaning right, (202) 748-8000. if you are an undecided independent this cycle, (202) 748-8002.

brian is one of those undecideds. kansas city, missouri. the morning. caller: good morning. i am up-to-date on the election. i am leaning towards a candidate that supports cryptocurrency because i feel like that is where this debt cycle is actually headed. host: so cryptocurrency, your top issue in 2022? caller: absolutely. i feel like the central banks haven't had a clue since the 2008 financial crisis, doing the entire process all over again. there is too much debt in the system and we need stable money. host: this is troy in west babylon, new york, leaning left. an independent leaning left. go ahead. caller: is this john or steve? host: it is john appear. caller: hey, jock. -- hey, john.

i wanted to vote for john mccain. [indiscernible] i have an idea to fix the economy. hello? host: go ahead. finish your comment. caller: twitter page and facebook page as well. host: that is troy out of new york. we will stay in new york. this is james in hamburg, an independent leaning right this cycle. why is that, james? caller: i feel if i was leaning to the left, i would be asking for more punishment. it appears from the guest you had on your show yesterday and the guest you will have on your

show later today that you want me to leave left. i think it would be beneficial to the show that you brought on somebody -- i believe there was a book where you can have two sides of the story. yesterday, it was obvious they were leaning against trump really hard and they had that aspect. today, you will bring somebody on that i assume would lean against the whole trump election and he should go to jail. host: we don't want you to think -- we have two other guests coming on in our 8:00 hour, penny danced and annabelle rutledge, from concerned women for america, talking about their bus tour they are on, she prays, she votes. maybe that is two guests you might be interested in. caller: of course, i definitely will be watching your show. i enjoyed it very much.

my wife absolutely likes it so much because i do it. but that is an idea. there are some stronger arguments on the other side and i am not giving them all the light. i believe a lot of your colors have issues with that. i don't think it will squash the hatred on both sides. i believe we are doing the best job, the best you can come as a thank you for allowing me to call in. host: that is james in hamburg, new york. we are talking with our independent viewers this segment. we do segments that are democrats or republicans only. we want to do independents only, focusing on the independent vote in the midterm elections. one of the reason why is there are a lot of people out there who believe independents will be key in this cycle. one of that is pollster david

winston. this is his column. from the column, he writes that either party is ough to win an election by itself e winning is not all about the base. it is about the political center of the country, those people who are not affiliated withither party, namely independents. the independents are likely to make up 28% of the midt electorate this fall based on the past three midterm election exit polls. they are sal of what they perceived to be the political messaging and spend, especially negati ads, and the bipartisanship that gets things done in washington on ant issue priorities. but 41% of them have an unfavorable view of both parties at the moment. that is from a recent column by david winston. if you want to read that column, back on september 14. an independent in maryland, leaning to the right this cycle, why is that, gary? caller: well, it appears the

country is heading towards socialism or communism or both. it is getting worse every day, every week. the lawlessness is part of it. and the person that was on earlier about the cryptocurrency , isn't that something where the government is going to decide how much money you get depending on what you do and how you vote and if you are vaccinated and all of that jazz? how come you don't have the people on from the 2000 mules movie? why don't you bring those people on a talk about the ballot stuffing, something like that? that would be nice. host: we are talking about independents this cycle. what makes you what independent? when was the last time you felt the other side did something right? we lost gary.

john and columbus, ohio, you are next. caller: good morning. i am glad to finally get on c-span. i am leaning left. and my top issue is voting rights. and upholding the constitution. if we do not have the constitution, we do not have a country. we got republicans out here saying when in power, all they will try to do is investigate people. they are not talking about doing anything for inflation now. you are in office now. what are you doing to help the people now? are you working across party lines to try to help gas prices, to try to help food prices? are you working to try to help the middle class and lower class people? we need politicians that are going to go out here and work for the people of the united

states of america. and we need the people of the united states of america to hold the politicians accountable. host: same question as the last caller. with your criticism of republicans, when was the last time you thought republicans had done something right? caller: i am not an independent. but if you uphold the constitution -- host: what we are trying to do is talk to independents. so if we can focus on that, we will have time for democrats and republicans to call in later in the show and most every day from now until election day, but giving a chance here to focus on independents. that is what we want to try to do this morning. aretha in indianapolis, indiana, undecided. what is going to sway your vote? caller: hello. host: hello. caller: i am undecided because of everything that is going on. i blame both sides of the coin.

it is not just the democrats. it is also the republicans. the reason i say that is, yes, the republicans are fighting so hard for us to not have babies and i don't understand that. i understand that democrats want us to have rights. but the same time, they are not showing us that we have those rights. i don't understand how it is like, ok, let's blaine trump for certain things but not -- blame trump for certain things but not all things. but to not correct them, i don't understand it. you want my vote, but are you giving me the help that i need because you are not giving me the help that i need? you are to give me what i feel like i want right now. no, it is not that. i want my rights. i want to be able to go out

there and experience those rights. it is the nra, abortion, or anything, but they are not showing me they are credible because they keep backpedaling on everything. ok, we are going to do this, but then you back. we are going to give you more, but then you backpedal. what about the people who are low income that are doing everything? you are not showing me nothing and you want my vote? i don't think i want to do that for people not being credited. host: that is everything in indiana this morning. here is if good comments from our text messaging service. steve in charleston, south carolina, saying, if i had to identify with a party, it would be the constitution party. i don't know if that makes me an independent but the absolute must wiggle issue for me is the economy and inflation. number two, border security.

the left does not seem to have an answer for inflation and does not seem to care about border security. this from mike in orlando, florida. i have been a registered independent for years. the most independent issue is saving the republic from the un-american trump maga election deniers. this from harry and indiana. an independent who usually leads to the green party candidates. this election will keep me sidelined. i find no one worthy to supporting 2022. my top concern is we need more third parties with a stronger political structure. an undecided independent in california, what is going to tip it for you these midterm elections? caller: people that would focus on the climate. all these other concerns everybody is having that has called in, it is not going to matter because if you don't have

clean air and water and food, it doesn't matter if you are republican, democrat, independent, american, non-american, immigrant, illegal alien, whatever you want to name anybody else, the human race is not going to survive. if people don't start paying attention and our government does not get out of the business of business, in other words, corporate entities, we are not going to survive. that is what i believe. host: that is tony, an independent in california. staying in california, mike, good morning. caller: good morning. good morning, john. my top issue is the military-industrial complex. which is something president eisenhower warned us about in his farewell address.

i would recommend to the viewers to go to the wikipedia website of the military-industrial complex. in there you will find the u.s. spends about three times as much as second-place china on the military, the so-called different budget. in effect, when we are doing is attempting to police the world, unaware apparently that foreigners don't like us policing their country. even after our terrible experience in vietnam and other places as well. this is i think the top warning. we had a very wise president in eisenhower. he led the normandy invasion, which was a daunting experience, which basically prepared him well to be president of the united states. host: you mentioned eisenhower. is it alright if i ask if you

were alive when eisenhower was in office? caller: yes, i was, and i don't mind obviously. host: how would you classify yourself? caller: i was born the first year of the baby boomer generation. host: what are your thoughts?i am not sure you will see it on your screen but this chart about political independents by generation overtime. if you look at it today, the older generation, the older you are in this country, the less likely you are to be an independent when it comes to the baby boomers. just 33% of baby boomers identify as independent in 22 compared to generation x and the millennial generation. generation x, 44%. 52% of millennials will say they are independent. i wonder your thoughts on the older you get the less likely you are to be an independent. caller: i was identified with

because they were the apparent opposition to the vietnam war, at least some of them. that was the biggest issue for me because i was a target of lyndon johnson's draft, which i avoided by changing my career to one in aerospace, the aerospace industry. it gave me an exemption to avoid the draft. but it strikes me that neither major party really is concerned about or even aware of the fact that u.s. the spending on military almost three times as much as second-place china. and in order to police the world, apparently unaware the citizens of the world don't like for good reason our attempting to police their country. host: thanks for the call forget

it from laguna woods to my california -- visit there a big whit tyrant community -- isn't there a big retirement community there? caller: yes. host: out of haynesville, kansas, good morning. caller: good morning. my big concern is the economics that everybody faces today. it is difficult. i am on a fixed income and it is hard to get by these days. i have a son in california. with regard to mike's a i servedll, -- call, i served

three tours of duty. i don't mind draft dodgers. if they did not have the stomach for it, they ran off to canada. i hold no malice to them, nor any malice to them when they were forgiven and allowed to come home. water under the bridge. what concerns me more, oddly enough is my son that lives out in california. ricardo he works hard, but he gets nowhere. there is talk of a new lithium battery factory in kansas. i hope he will have the opportunity to work there. host: why do you think out in california someone can work hard and still get nowhere? what is happening there that that is happening? caller: taxation, high cost of

living, wages. don't keep up the economics of day-to-day living for the average working man. host: thanks for the call from kansas. karen in connecticut, good morning on the line for independents leading left the cycle. what is that? caller: good morning. because we are losing our country to corporatism and the right leaning want to make it a theocracy, which are both fascism. i wish people would look at the 14 points of fascism, and they would see that. i think we have let the insurance take over too much. they rule our lives. they ruin our lives if you are sick. i don't think it hurts to have community college for free. i think that would help a lot of people.

why is it that the republicans are all for socialism when it is helping the rich, like the ppp loans being forgiven? host: is there a republican idea that has come up in the past couple years that you do like? caller: well, i like that both parties actually because biden is for making america -- building america. i do like that, but it is the other things are very dangerous because once we lose democracy, that is it. you know? host: karen in connecticut. to the buckeye state, marion, ohio, joe is an undecided independent. what will decide your vote in the midterm? caller: this is actually quite a ridiculous topic but it is between j.d. vance and tim ryan here in the buckeye state for the u.s. senate seat. i have always been

entertained by jim. i know tim ryan got his start in politics. you know, look, it is certainly possible, -- excuse me, let me turn my tv don't forget both mr. ryan -- excuse me, congressman ryan and senator brown are anti-nafta. i don't say anti-trade. that is too broad of a brush forget in any case, there is a chance he could win that seat. and say, the guy has been dead for a few years, why don't we pardon the former representative forget i would be amused by that. host: known for his "beam me up," what did you like about jim ?

caller: here is what i liked other than the fact that he said crazy ridiculous things all the time. i certainly did not like him as a candidate for president, but he was an interesting precursor to donald trump. if you look at both in terms of his policy positions and frankly his style, his stump style, the way he acted, i think he could have seen donald trump coming from 30 years away just pulling up any of his floor speeches or frankly the way he comported himself when he was on trial on those federal charges back in the late 1990's, early 2000. host: you can watch his floor speeches from the c-span website, c-span.org. over 1000 videos in the c-span video archive. joe from ohio, did you want to finish your comment?

anything you wanted to add? caller: go bucks. host: to mike in madison heights, michigan. the morning on the line for independents leaning right this cycle. what does that -- why is that? caller: the reason i called his career should have said do not worry about america, we will destroy ourselves within. it seems like we are doing that. also, the republicans all vote on one side and the democrats all vote. two people always agree. one of them is not thinking. i think we should have open minds on both parties and whoever we think is going to have an open mind, vote for what is right, and that is because the party deems it necessary. you have a good day. host: that is my in michigan. to betty in coldwater, mississippi. you are next. go ahead. go ahead.

i tell you what, we are not going to be able to hear you if you don't turn down your television, so can you do that for me? caller: ok. ok. i'm ready. host: go ahead, betty. caller: yes. i am calling because i am an independent, and i voted for donald trump the last time, but i am not going to be able to do that this time. also, i am concerned about the abortion issue. those that oppose it are not speaking about the baby. it is more about their bodies. i think it should be addressed when you are talking about aborting a baby. secondly, the border is open. we need to control the border. we cannot consider ourselves an

independent nation when anyone and anything can happen into the country. secondly, what we talk about wages and income at all of that, what is going on that we have people not going to work, but we are paying them. you are learning to work doing no work. so i am not happy with that. i think the republican party needs to find a new candidate because i don't think donald trump is going to be able to be the nominee. i thank you for listening. host: that is betty out in mississippi. you bring up the abortion issue. some news on that front from yesterday from the president of the united states. president joe biden saying that codifying roe will be the next bill he sends to congress if democrats expand control in the senate and maintain

control of the house. he hopes to sign that on the 50th anniversary of the roe decision from 1973. women were holding restore roe signs less than one month before the midterm. that is the story from "usa today" yesterday. you could watch the president on c-span yesterday and you still can if you want to watch it on c-span.org. also from the president yesterday, the biden administration planning to sell more oil from the country's strategic reserves as it tries to head off the potential for more market shops and higher prices -- market shocks and higher prices. he will address gasoline prices today as the midterms near at the clock runs down on the reserves that have helped temper prices at the pump. mr. biden plans to call on the energy department to be prepared for more sales from what is left

of the 400 million barrels in the strategic reserve if russia or other countries disrupt world markets. that in the "wall street journal" and according to white house sources. one more story, this one is the front page of "the washington times" today. john durham's likely final trial ended in another defeat tuesday as the federal jury acquitted a russian analyst who was the primary source of the anti-trump steel dossier on charges of making false statements to the fbi. the jury deliberated for nine hours over two days before acquitting him. it was the second quit over mr. durham in as many trials, leaving him with a guilty plea of a low-level fbi lawyer who was sentenced to probation as his only win in his investigation that is the front page of "the washington times." and then this on the op-ed pages of "usa today." it is a column on the issue of

debate, the issue we talked about the first hour of this program yesterday. we ask you yesterday, do debates matter? the opinion editor of "usa today" taking up that exact issue in today's column. he says, allow me to share an inconvenient truth. this there -- the humble voters who hold up the honor of participating in the great ongoing experiment in representative democracy. in practice he writes that what we get more often our barbara brawls straight out of hollywood westerns. at a time when inflation is soaring, the planet is warming, and the president is talked about armageddon, i don't care about a choreographed debate. that is in the op-ed pages of the paper. 10 minutes left in this first segment of "washington journal."

we are talking with independents only on the issues that are important to you this election cycle. if you want an independent who find yourself leading to the right this cycle, (202) 748-8000 is the number. if you are an independent who find yourself leaning to the left this cycle, (202) 748-8001. if you are an independent who is undecided this cycle, (202) 748-8002. david, undecided, florida, good morning. you are next. caller: good morning. yes. my biggest issue is the fraud that is happening and what is being sold to the american people like the war on ukraine. we should have never gotten involved in it. we are sending billions of dollars over there for nothing because nothing is going to change. the inflation reduction act, which basically is the green new deal act, and it was blocked so we were kind of lied to. what they do is throw in euro

prices and things that are very small part of that. you kind of wonder what is going on because the media backs certain things. i just like to hear the truth. that is the real problem we are having with our government and with our media, is that they give you 90% lies and 10% truth. host: all the war in ukraine, this from punch bowl news, one of the media organizations on capitol hill, reported yesterday that kevin mccarthy, the top house republican, said that if his party wins a majority in the midterm elections, its members would be unwilling to write a blank check to ukraine, suggesting it could be more difficult for president biden to bit congressional approval for large infusions of agent to bolster the country's war against russia. did you happen to see that yesterday?

caller: i heard something about that yesterday. i agree with that, but i really like the stance that tulsa gabbard took when she said we should not be there. i am glad she became an independent like me. i like her as a democratic person. she was not sold at all in the last presidential election. i would have voted for her before i voted for any of these other democrats. i voted for obama the first time. he kind of let me down a little bit. i did not vote for him the second time. i am an independent now, and i just want to find a good candidate on both sides, that they can have an honest debate and maybe agree on a few things. not necessarily disagree on every item for the presidential election. if one guy takes a stand, the other guy shoots him down. it doesn't mean both sides have a bad idea. it is just that there has to be some kind of a compromise. it kind of seems like they are

trying to deceive the american people. obviously, this gas situation, you got one side saying, hey, we need to have more and the others i think we have to have more solar panels and things that come out of china. solar panels lose 18% in the first 10 years if you get solar panels. they don't say nothing about that. i live in florida, obviously. if a hurricane comes and i can only get 200 miles out of my car, that is a little bit of a problem. i will not be able to charge it wherever i go and they will not be able to solve that for years. host: david out of florida. this is ricky in albany, new york. good morning. you are next. ricky, are you with us? then we will go to don in florida. good morning. caller: morning.

i listening and they just started talking about or you just started talking about the war in ukraine that is why we got involved in that, i believe, because it is a really serious thing. we don't need war anymore. i served my time. we just don't need it anymore. the people -- ok, back to reality. what is happening in the united states, i think, is there are people talking about honest to god revolution. these are the people who have never served a day in the military, and they don't know what is coming if it does happen, god for bid. i just don't know where to go with this, who to vote for. it is crazy.

well, listen, let me let somebody with more intelligence to. have a good day. host: that is dodd out of florida. we will go to scott in los angeles. good morning, you are next. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. i support the right because i see all the politicians keep on blaming trump for all the problems they see right now. when trump was in office, he reduced prices, middle east peace deals, was lied to by big pharma and found cheap, and they released the vaccine system, and then they fired our best soldiers for not taking the vaccine. we are going to fire half of our navy seals and airborne rangers and leave our country week. the military stockpiles.

another is complaining of sending all of that stuff over to ukraine. he made deals with russia, china, north korea, and then they just basically -- host: what makes you an independent? caller: i am an independent because i am a convicted drug felon and a gun felon. i used to be a fiscally conservative republican but i live in los angeles, which is democratically controlled. i got friends from afghanistan, iran, israel, mexico, el salvador, nicaragua, guatemala. i have met them nonunion. guess what. i worked nonunion, i was the boss of union workers. host: what are the rules in california as a convicted felon?

are you able to vote? caller: yes, i am able to vote in mandatory jury duty too. i have one small prison term under my belt so i am pretty much unemployable due to my methamphetamine drug conviction. people see that and go, he is unhealthy, so that gets me out of the workforce right there. but here is the thing. you let these people come across the border and they are going to come here and start taking our jobs, which is fine. i don't mind. i will work right next to them, no problem. i have no problems with them. but you know what? they are going to make a $15 minimum wage. fire the people at the top of the government and all the offices at $35 an hour, without full pension and retirement, and higher those people and let them take their place for $15 an hour because they are willing to do it.

if they want to join the union, join the union. like everybody else around here making $15 an hour, work. host: several more callers waiting to get in. this is israel out of crystal river, florida. good morning. caller: yes, hi, good morning. i am calling because i am a disabled veteran, just like governor desantis. the difference between him being a veteran and me being a veteran is the fact that i have been in the front lines while he puffs out his chest and everybody rolls out the red carpet. my situation is that hurricane ian hit florida over three weeks ago or something in that regards. and i am a hopeless vet and carless because of the impact of hurricane ian. i have yet to be assisted by any of these organizations because

politically speaking, governor desantis and the senators have set up an agenda that only conveniently backs up their campaigns for reelection. in other words, i understand fort myers and all these other places have gotten backed up, which they have gotten, but i also stay in an area that the winds and storms also hit just as much. i have a roof over my head that has a hole. rain comes down constantly into my home, has damaged my home, my personal belongings. the storm has damaged by vehicle. i am carless. i'm homeless. i reached out to these organizations, everybody and their mother, in order to get assistance, and they are saying their hands are tied because

governor desantis and the government is not letting them respond to us and purposely have been designed to reject us. host: you are saying to not respond because of the area you are in in crystal river, in kind of that northern part of florida? or to not respond because of some other reason? caller: they are not responding because of the political agenda that is involved. host: what is the what is the as what i'm asking. caller: certain personnel are stating that he backed up fort myers and all these other places they truly have assisted which i understand that it's been drastic in the storms and things of that nature that have impacted. but this area has been impacted as well. maybe not in the greatest levels but mean as a personal homeowner

have been impacted and in terms of pictures and some that i have text to the line because i'm like if i'm not being heard locally and i keep calling numbers which give me the runaround constantly, then i have to call washington, d.c. and express this because i'm not being heard, i'm not being tended to. >> have you tried your member of congress? they all have their staff that works on case issues for folks in the district. have you tried your member of congress. caller: i have tried to contact so many different organizations and they all give me the same tune. host: good luck to you in crystal river, florida. out of time for this segment of washington journal but still plenty more to talk about this

morning up after the break. annabelle rutledge of the group concerned women for america to discuss their bus tour through key campaign battleground states and later today, the senate for election innovation -- center for election innovation center joining us to discuss holding democracy in the age of the big lie. we will be right back. ♪ >> this election day november 8, of the control of power in congress is at stake. will republicans retake the house, can democrats retake control of the senate. follow c-span's coverage of key house and senate races with our coverage of debates, rallies and candidate events. events as they happen on tv in the c-span now app on demand on our w andou can find our

election page at c-span.org/campaign 2022. >> book tv every sunday on c-span features -- c-span2 features leading authors discussing their books. at 9:00 eastern, manhattan institute shares h book crimalnjustice where he argues defunding of police and introducing more leniency in the criminal justice system would disproportionately harm black and browamericans. at 10:00 p.m. eastern, brandy collins dexter discuss the relationship between black voters in the democratic party, inflections on blackness and our political future. she's interviewed by wesley lowery. watch book tv every sunday on c-span two and find the full schedule of your programs or watch online anytime at book tv.org.

>> there are a lot of places to get political information, but only at c-span do you get it straight from the source. no matter where you are from or where you stand on the issues, c-span is america's network. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. here or anywhere that matters. america is watching on c-span. powered by cable. >> in brad snyder's new book, the cover notes report the conventional wisdom of frankfurt or, a former harvard law professor and supreme court justice is that he struggled to fill the seat once held by oliver wendell holmes. the professor's biography that scholars have prepaid frankfurt

or as a judicial failure, a liberal lawyer turned conservative justice and the warren court principal villain. he met none of these characterizations ring true. george, professor dan -- 700 pages to examine the justices life. >>ook on book -- available on c-spafree mobile app. >> washington journal continues. host: now on women and the 2022 election. ceo and president of concerned women for america, annabelle rutledge is the national director of young women for america. for those who aren't familiar, who were the concerned women. what's your mission. >> so great to be on with you. with the nation's largest policy women's organization we have

about half a million members throughout the country and we've been around since 1979 with the institution for conservative women and we are just so grateful beyond -- to be on with you and we are ready to encourage conservative women to vote in this midterm election. host: the young women for america, what is that and what do you do? >> young women for america is a high school collegiate arm of concern for america. -- we work on the same issues and do the same activism in a different sphere. these are girls about 16 to 26 were highly engaged, they are taking on high school campuses, college campuses. >> and you are joining us this morning from akron ohio as part of your bus tour. explain what that is paired guest: -- what that is. guest: day three of a 12 day 40

stop bus tour going into key battleground states encouraging christian women to turn out and vote. we are definitely leaning into the key states of ohio, pennsylvania, arizona, nevada and some others along the way. it's been great to talk to people in ohio, very excited about this election and i've heard a lot of support for j.d. vance coming out of the local sphere in ohio. host: what role our christian women playing in 2022? world they play in the last election? guest: christian women are women who love their families, love god, love their country. i don't know for dissimilar from other women. you've probably seen the new york times poll in which we are seeing independent women lean to the right and i think what i

would say conservative women are concerned about is the same thing all women are concerned about. right now we are concerned about the issue of inflation, supporting our families. the number one google search right now is crime. and of course we are socially conservative so we believe in the issue of life, but it's really at this moment and especially as i talk to people in ohio the issue of inflation that's top of mind for women. i grew up in appalachia and tennessee and kentucky and much like j.d. vance i had the hillbilly experience in the best way possible. but i also had the experience of going to the grocery store. and having to put food back because he didn't have enough money to pay for it. having to -- putting gas in my car and not being able to have food paid this is what's

happening and that's why you're seeing this enormous swing towards conservative candidates. host: the abortion debate in election 22 we saw yesterday president biden putting this front and center saying if democrats maintain control of the house and senate if they expanded there were senate majority codifying roe v. wade will be the first bill that he sends to congress. do you think it is overstated the role it will play in 2022. >> they are hoping, in fact they are putting all of their eggs in the abortion basket which is a huge mistake. of course we care about life. but given the things advocating for is an extreme position on abortion. the bill he is supporting makes abortion legal across this nation. now after roe v. wade has been overturned on a state-by-state basis people are able to decide. in ohio it has a 20 week ban,

pennsylvania has a 24 week ban, i think those are very liberal positions. people have to be educated on the state level and that's what's happening around this nation. conversations are happening that we are not able to have that have no impact for the overturn of roe. what i think it is a huge mistake. conservatives are happy about it , the liberals are suggesting that everything is about abortion. they boil it down to the issue of abortion and it's a mistake we are not single issue voters. if you look at polling when you talk to women about what their concerns are. abortion is at the bottom. and at the top right now is inflation and crime. host: annabelle rutledge, on young women in the issues that are bringing them to the polls, is this the same issue set that vance was just speaking about?

guest: i think everyone is definitely feeling the economy impact their pocket and you might say people who might be feeling that even more than others would be college students. i remember being a college student a little bit over five years ago, and barely having the news to make sure i could get my five under dollar books for the semester. in the 2018 midterm election we first saw massive increase in young voters ages 18 to 25 turning out in higher percentages than ever before. i want to say was a 20% increase. and since then that momentum has continued and young people are very engaged with what's going on in social issues are important to them. there's a strong sense of compassion among young voters and although the democrats are hoping the abortion debate will

skew things in their favor. they need to remember that there were young women standing on the steps of the supreme court this summer when roe v. wade was overturned who have worked towards this goal for many years. but they've been working that for many years and his momentum behind them. the realization and chipping away at that it's so fundamental and important to them and how they -- how their activism can spread and how that's fueling that going forward. >> another key issue for young women is the women's sports issue. host: we are going to try and work on that connection and get penny and annabelle rutledge back with us this morning. a few issues coming to us live from their bus tour. let me get the phone numbers

will beget that connection back. if you want to join the conversation. 202-748-8001 for republicans to call in. democrats 202-748-8000. independents 202-748-8002. women's issues and campaign 2022 is our topic and it is penny nance and annabelle rutledge. i should ask are you on the bus right now? guest: we are. can you hear me all right? host: yes. guest: we are on the she prays she votes bus that's going across the country. and we are seeing a lot of support, we are rolling into everything from the parking lot to companies and independent businesses. people of invited us. people are coming out in droves to greet us and tell us what

they are thinking about, what's top of mind for them right now. host: let me let you chat with a few callers who are calling in for you. we will start in mississippi on the line for independence. this is james pay you are on with penny and annabelle. caller: good morning. host: what's your question or comment. caller: my comment is this. for you all to say christian and using politics saying we are conservatives, we are going to put our policies before christianity, you sound like a hypocrite. you are sounding like your listening to the republican party and saying people that are not christians are not

supporting what's right in this country. and you are putting women in a position that they have no power over their own bodies. do you remember when jesus christ was met with these christian people and they brought this woman that was caught in adultery and they tried to use that against jesus tomb charge this woman with a crime but they left the man out and they said let he without sin cast the first stone. host: go ahead. guest: i would love to address that. certainly we believe that our faith is separate and apart from politics and i would just say to anyone listening i don't know who's listening today but god loves you, jesus died for your sins. we are all broken sinners in need of redemption and we have come to that with the integrity and honesty we also know what

the bible says on key issues. genesis one tells us that god created them in his image and we will stand on those promises and on that truth. we know we talk about support for israel and for god's people. we certainly understand that we are broken and that he died for least of the. and we would never cast aspersions on the broken bread sex trafficking is one of our key issues as a matter of fact. >> and the conviction just to onto that. whether you are christian or not, it is our conviction and are held belief to engage on these issues. it's the beauty of america the difference in our conviction and beliefs to bring us to the

polls. so for us as christian women our faith in everything we do and that's the same no matter what your beliefs are. host: one of our viewers via twitter, wants to know where you are on the separation of church and state? guest: we certainly don't want the state in fringing on our religious freedom certainly. but we think christians can purchase a paid in the public rigor and have since the founding of our nation. that separation was always intended. that was a letter thomas jefferson wrote about this and the intent behind that letter when you look to it is to protect the people against the government infringing on their liberties. the whole reason america exists. we came from a country where the crown was dictating what we had to believe.

it was never meant to make us take our faith and hide it away. guest: let's be clear we do not believe in a theocracy. we want the church to stay in its place on the government stay in their place and we do not want the government infringing upon our religious freedom in any way. host: women's issues in the 2022 election. missouri, independent, go ahead. caller: i am calling because i think it is a mistake to tie conservativism to religion and i feel like i'm seeing that more and more. to be honest, i consider myself a christian and i won't go back to church because of stuff like this. i feel like you cannot intertwine government and religion. there are plenty of people out there who care about things like women's rights who maybe aren't for abortion themselves and wouldn't do it for themselves but we also don't think it should have anything to do with

the government. the government doesn't have the right to tell people what to do with their bodies. i just want to tell women out there you can be a christian and not vote conservative. host: ms. nance. guest: ok. whatever. [laughter] great, i'm glad that she thinks that and she's entitled to her opinion and so are we. we are speaking for a group of women who very firmly believe in principles. yes you can think that your view of abortion is in line with biblical principles. take the time to read and study. god loves you and jesus loves you. certainly you can be my sister and not agree with issues on politics. there's a reason why the vast majority of evangelical christians and faithful catholics vote for conservatives because it's more likely to be

in line with our faith. we certainly don't think that these people are in any way, our pastors or religious leaders. your trying to walk in our faith every day of our lives, protect our families and in many cases get the government to leave us alone. host: linda out of uniontown, pennsylvania, a republican. good morning. caller: good morning. i just wanted to say yes i am a christian and i firmly believe abortion is wrong. i think if people could see what actually happens during an abortion. life starts at conception, that's in the bible. whenever the holy spirit came upon mary and she was with child. she went to her cousin rebecca. john the baptist and sick -- whenever she approached her

cousin it said in the bible -- john the baptist at six months that life begins. another thing i want to point out. we shouldn't even be in this situation of abortion. there are so many methods of birth control out there. the pill, there are ways to prevent pregnancy so you don't even have to have the fight about abortion. and i think conservatives should really bring that up more. there are plenty of options for birth control. it's like you are pregnant you have to get an abortion. why don't we concentrate on prevention from pregnancy and that's all i want to say. host: linda this morning. guest: i did want to point out at the very beginning she mentioned education. and i do think there can sometimes be this idea that

everyone understands what's happening during an abortion. and we are giving ourselves what's true. what we've seen repeatedly as people do not know what an abortion is specifically talking about young women for america shocked at how many college students abortion pills by mail have no idea what's going on in their bodies when they have an abortion whether it's clinical or surgical. so that something young women for america heavily lean into. we provide this at our headquarters, they take those materials, they gather together their peers from groups of five to 45 and educate them on the issue of abortion, the procedures, what happens to that child and there's work to be done there and that's why we are having this conversation. guest: one of the key legislative issues this year at the state level is they idea of

natal developing being taught in the classroom. kids don't know that it six weeks you can detect a beating heart. and just basic fetal development. talking about abortion at 15 weeks at that point a little baby has all her major organs, has fingernails and toenails. and it feels pain. women start to understand what's actually happening really changes the conversation. i would suggest when we are talking about limiting abortion, in many cases it still to the left of europe. they have limited abortion within the first trimester because of these issues we are discussing. host: to the issue of abortion in a post-roe world restrictions are up to states, are you ok with that or if republicans take

over the house and senate, would you want republicans to pass a national ban on abortion? >> we are a long way away from that happening. there is so much work to be done. politics is downstream of public opinion. and the vast majority of people if we have just said don't understand fetal development. we can only move so far with what people believe in and are willing to support. so right now this is a fight on a state-by-state basis. there are some very limited -- there are some initiatives at the federal level that are happening, but we have a long way to go. of course we fully support life but we understand reality and we are working not only to educate people on what happens but also alternatives for women. another key initiative on the

federal and state level is something called standing with mom's act. one of the first organizations to come forward and say we need a one-stop shop for a woman anywhere in the country that's facing an unplanned pregnancy or even one that's concerned about her ability to provide to go on the internet, go to a place that will be created and already is created in south dakota called life.gov and you can put in the zip code or state and find out all of the alternatives, everything that's around her. everything like housing, education opportunities, health care, child care, whatever it is she needs. many of these alternatives already are available but women do not know. so whether they are in a situation in which their boyfriend or even their parents are saying you are on your own we are knocking to help you, they can be able to go online and say maybe i'm ok, maybe i

can do this. so we want to support women in every way possible. host: a few minutes left with penny and annabelle, concerned women for america. stephanie is in brooklyn, new york line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning, how are you this morning? host: doing well, what's your question or comment? caller: i believe that a woman should not be allowed to go under a regime of telling them what to do with their bodies. as an african-american woman who had -- for mothers as well as children. what i have seen as far as the government taking care of people, helping them with their children. they want us to bear these children, but they do not want to take care of children that

are already here. you talk about how they have these programs to help mothers, unwed mothers. but they only have them for certain people. i.s. a social worker -- these people are left out. she is struggling to get -- the government is not helping her. what are we going to do for those children who are fatherless just like we have herschel walker and his kids out there. what are we going to do about that? host: let me take the question to penny and annabelle. >> i think what she said is a talking point that is tired frankly. i would like to first start with the fact that there are more

babies aborted, black babies aborted in new york city in any given year. what's happening, there is racism the targets minority children and it's absolutely repulsive and disgusting and it's at the very core of the founding of planned parenthood paid they have it straight from that. we are the opposite. we are the people who do not believe that you give a woman in abortion, you send her home and never talk to her again. we do care. pro-life women of the women who believe in equality, who believe every single child deserves the opportunity to live and thrive and love. we are the people that welcome children and women into our homes. there are over 2000 pregnancy care centers around this country. it is only 800 planned

parenthood clinics that are brick and mortar. we have community health center, we have privately funded opportunities and churches that care for the least. we are the most likely to adopt, the most likely to foster care. so it's really the opposite of what the other side says. we are the people who care. the abortion industry is about money, taking money and leaving women on their own. we are the ones that actually care for women, support them and want them to be able to thrive with their baby. we are willing to bring children into our homes to matter who they are. there's about one million parents waiting right now to adopt, there are less children available for adoption then parents that would like to receive them. we have a system that needs to be completely renovated when it comes to the issue of foster care, that is a completely broken system but full of people

who care about those kids and want to care for them. so we need to make changes. so the issue is systemic. we must care for the least and we at the church -- we end the church are trying to do this we are the people who care. host: let me try to get a couple more callers. britney caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i appreciate what you brought up , how important it is that we do not infringe on religion. i want to let everyone know, as a jewish person, life does not begin until -- i appreciate where you are coming from. it is very helpful to know that folks are putting forth the effort to make sure my religious

freedom will not be infringed upon. ms. stephanie's lived experience as a talking point, they were so dismissive of it. actually dealing with the issue, much more knowledgeable than you, who are regurgitating political talking points. laws and states are making them close days and nights. are you cutting me off? thank you so much. you got your turn to speak. you went off 10 minutes. host: we are running short on time. caller: the church care so much more about women but it does not want them to make their own choices. i want you to stay out of my business. i had an abortion. it was the best thing for me. it is none of your business.

do you know if the 15-week fee just cannot do? live outside the womb. guest: we are only going to allow lives to live if they can survive outside of the womb without medical care? there are people who require medical care constantly in order i lovethhave to say. to survive. guest: those comments emphasize -- the fact that so many people are showing up outside the supreme court, it shows how personal this is. she does not have the same belief that we do. the current climate we are in allows people to share their deeply held beliefs. i also think we need to be really careful when talking about crisis pregnancy centers in the current climate where we

have had over 50 attacks that have not been investigated against crisis pregnancy centers and be careful with the verbiage we are using. as a christian, i go to a church where we have supported many women who have come in -- the carriage is not end when they give birth to that baby. host: republican line, new york. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i wanted to let these ladies know that from what i understand so far, i am extremely grateful you are out there and i will be praying for you. as in upstate new yorker, and a christian, i am often left out. i feel like i am surrounded by people who call abortion a woman's right and choice. i pray for those women and i love them like i pray for the

baby. i believe god does not make any mistakes and he is doing good things by the power of the holy spirit being with these ladies going around and sharing the true message. that is what i believe my role is, not to tell people they have to believe in jesus, i pray that they will. i try to be his hands and feet in this country. thank you so much. it is so refreshing. this is the first time i have gotten through to c-span and i am grateful it is for something i truly believe in. host: i will give you the final minute. guest: i have heard a couple people say today -- it is not your body. it is a separate human being. that is the discussion we are having. we can have this discussion on a

state-by-state basis. virginia is my home state. virginia right now is having that conversation. we have this great opportunity, this is a great time in history for freedom for individual states to decide on their own and make policy in the way we wanted to be on a very important issue. this is a deeply important issue. we welcome the conversation. host: go ahead. guest: it is clear from this conversation, and thank you so much, john, for giving us the opportunity, but there are a variety of believes. it is ok that people have different beliefs. i would say to remember this, we live in a vacuum.

government is not separate from religion. all of these things intersect. our beliefs will lead over to how we vote and they should. it is a good reminder, especially for young people in today's climate that people disagree and that is ok. annabelle rutledge and host: penny nance. appreciate your time this morning. thank you for joining us. guest: thank you. host: about half an hour from now, we will be joined at 9:00 a.m. eastern by major garrett and david becker to discuss their book. until then, it is our open forum. time for you to lead the

discussion on a political issue you want to talk about. the phone numbers are on your screen. you can start calling you now and we will get to your calls after the break. ♪ ♪ >> middle and high school students, it is your time to shine. you are invited to participate in this year's c-span studentcam documentary competition. feature yourself as a newly elected member of congress. what is your top priority and why? make a five to six minute video that shows the importance of your issue from opposing and supportive positions. do not be afraid to take risks

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exploring the american story. watch american history tv saturdays on c-span2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at c-span.org/history. >> "washington journal" continues. host: it is time for our open forum. any political issue, state issue you want to talk about, now is your time to do it. about 20 minutes in this segment to do it. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, you can call (202) 748-8002. as you are calling in, letting you know what is on the c-span networks today. after this program, an event featuring t america strong education event.

doug ducey, betsy devos participating in that event. it is the america strong. you could watch on c-span, c-span.org and the free c-span now video app. 1:20 p.m. eastern, an event on covid preparedness featuring the covid-19 covid white house coordinator and the foundation of national institutes of health . that event also on c-span, c-span.org and the fe span now video app. the debates are ctinuing. it is the oklahoma governor debate. republican gerr kevin stitt and his challenger will debate. you can watch live coverage of that at 6:30 eastern on c-span and c-span.org and the c-span now video app.

there is also plenty more going on. c-span.org is where you can see the full lineup. for now, your phone calls, what you want to talk about? vivian, tennessee, line for democrats. caller: thank you. i want to give three quick points. today is my birthday and i am grabbed to be on this earth. host: happy birthday. how old are you, do you might be asking? caller: 77. the republicans said what is time to vote, they believe in america. mitch mcconnell and the republicans vote "no" on everything. even on the stimulus package. there people got those stimulus packages just like we did. i watched the senate. and i watched the congress.

they did not vote. everything they have put up for the american people is "no, no, no, no." when it comes to raising taxes on the rich, they do not want to do that. i am 72 years old. i remember people struggling in the 1960's, some got killed, in order for us to vote. now they are gerrymandering and taking it away. is this america or is it russia? host: this is cici in georgia, line for republicans. caller: i have two quick points. stimulus packages drive money into the economy and drives up inflation. the other thing is, c-span always pushes the big lie. they have these authors come in and talk about books they have written about the big lie.

it would be fair for c-span to put it opposition author in, who did a documentary called "2000 mules." people should watch that to get a different viewpoint. c-span used to be very fair and unbiased. now, i do not know. host: this is ursula in new jersey, independent. good morning. caller: good morning. i have been listening to c-span for many, many years. i love the work you do. especially you. we cannot have a democracy without the ability to vote and have clear and truthful

information, which is what i look to from c-span. you have a great variety of people, open-minded, my independent status. we are in a very scary time in our country. i am afraid -- i am afraid -- because the issue is not abortion. the issue is everything that stems from privacy. with regard to women, health care is very delicate, and i think it is cruel to negate how

-- just how mean people in america have become. how, just, angry people are. host: california, rudy, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning, john, my friend. my issue is with the coming election, everyone is talking about the crime and the economy. for the crime part, it is a society of people, is what it is -- a society of evil. i have family in metropolitan police department and they are concerned because they cannot prevent crimes. cops do not prevent crimes. if you stop something, that is fine.

it is a society thing, whether you are in an urban area or rural area, crime will happen. cops do their investigation. with the technology we have, we get our perpetrator. cops do not prevent crimes. host: jerry in virginia, republican, good morning. it is our open forum. caller: good morning. there are a couple points i would like to clear up. we are talking about the january 6 committee. donald trump did not approve national guard troops for january 6 but he did. there was a congressional hearing that covered it. i believe there was a hearing where pentagon officials talked about the afghanistan withdrawal. they also talked about the national guard response.

donald trump did in fact authorize national guard troops. muriel bowser and nancy pelosi were offered national guard on several occasions but they declined because that would interfere with our plans. january 6 was planned and executed. host: did you watch the last hearing? caller: i did not. i saw parts of it on the different news channels. host: this is sharon out of rockville, maryland. independent. good morning. caller: i love you all. you are terrific. i do not know if you saw the article in the washington post about the trumpism party, because there is no republican party anymore, that is dead and

buried. mr. kevin mccarthy, trump's little boy or whatever he is, they were talking about how they were going to pull in the budget, it has come out now they want to make permanent the tax cuts that will raise inflation. i would appreciate if you could read that article, or that part of what they are saying. they are lying -- they are not lying, they are not telling you and then it got leaked. host: this is ken in st. louis, missouri, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning, john. host: go ahead, sir. caller: i am always amazed -- this is in regard to the two women you had on earlier about abortion -- i am always amazed when these "christians" call

in anything they are quoting from the bible. there is a recipe for abortion in the old testament, when the man feels like the woman has been unfaithful. we can pick and choose from this book. there are a lot of people in america have a different religion, do not have religion, and are still good people. if you are going to quote the book, quote the book. host: line for republicans, allen in mississippi. good morning. caller: i would like to make a comment. for the reason there was an attack on the white house -- host: you are talking about the

capitol on january 6, 2021. caller: people in america are not stupid. let me give you a scenario about what has happened. president biden got on air force two and flew to ukraine. hunter biden did his dirty deeds. when they met back up on the plan, they sat together on air force two for nearly nine hours. you cannot tell me that hunter biden did not discuss with his father what had happened that day. president biden said he knew

nothing. it does not make sense. host: do you think if republicans take the house or senate, they will launch investigations into hunter biden? caller: of course they will, and they should. people really want to know. it will also involve the russia hoax and hillary and the justice department. and the people are not stupid. they stormed the bastille for the same sort of thing. people know what is going on. the insider trading. tell me, how does the president

of the united states get from a downtown lawyer's office -- host: allen from mississippi on russia and the fbi. front page from the washington times. special counsel, his likely final trial ended in another defeat. the federal jury acquitted a russian analyst who was the primary source of a dossier with charges of making false statements to the fbi. it would be the second acquittal for mr. trump and as many trials. the guilty plea of a low-level fbi lawyer with probation. that story and the washington times.

this is james, north carolina, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning, sir. good morning to the c-span audience. this is my concern. it is almost sickening the way people do not believe the truth, and the truth has been destroyed. these people honestly believe trump did nothing. these people think they won. every time putin gets a guy who challenges his authority, he gets suicided or something of that nature. the people of russia have no rights. the people of america want to put this democracy in the hands of people -- the law does not

apply to everyone anymore. everyone in this country heard trump make that phone call to georgia. yet, still, the doj did not immediately prosecute that guy. the law does not apply to everyone equally. we are going to get the government people think they want. will the country prosper when it becomes a fascist system? people will learn a lot about what a democracy really is and how everyone -- everyone -- has to sacrifice. you cannot say if i do not win, it is a fraud. gore did not say that. he had more votes than bush. host: clearwater, florida, ellen, independent. good morning. caller: good morning, c-span. how are you? host: doing well.

go ahead. caller: i have a problem with january 6. we see it in black-and-white on tv but there are peopl who flat out refused to accept it. we just have to accept that they accept lying. the majority of the people saw with their eyes, they are intelligent people, they know what happened. just ignore the backward and forward. people will go on with life and it will be what it will be. the great man above knows it all and he sees it all. that is all i have to say. host: connecticut, line for republicans. good morning to you, sir. caller: good morning.

i would like to talk about tierney. when you have a political party, the media backs up ideologies and policies, and they lock up prisoners, and big tech, you have a serious problem. "2000 mules," wisconsin supreme court just voted that drop boxes are illegal. delaware, a democrat state, the supreme court voted drop boxes were illegal, also. i think when people call in and say biden is doing the best he can with what he has -- if you

say you are going to shut down the oil companies, the lifeblood of the world, europe went to these green policies and they are suffering. host: texas, calvin, line for democrats. good morning. caller: how are you doing? my first time calling in. everybody does not seem to understand why people follow donald trump so closely. even back then, people were talking about the south will rise again. these people have been looking for someone to say, come with me, ever since appomattox. they think donald trump is the guy that will take them to the next level or the promised land.

the problem is donald trump is just a money hungry businessman. i worry about this country. they seem to be heading down a path, they know who they think donald trump is. i just worry about this country. that is all i have to say about it. host: santa ana, california, good morning. caller: good morning. how are you doing today? host: i am doing well. caller: i just wanted to point something out. the fact announcers keep saying that they are having debates, and they are not debates, they are discussions. a real debate has two speakers, a negative side and a positive

host: you're saying you are not seeing that in the midterm debates? caller: they are not debates because they are not choosing a subject and taking a negative or positive side. this is just a discussion. host: you don't find debates useful? i will tell you what. you have to stop looking at your tv and talk to the phone. we are out of time. next up, in the last hour, we will be joined by major garrett of cbs news and david becker of the center for election innovation and research to discuss the book the big truth: upholding democracy in the age of the big lie. stick around for that conversation. we will be right back. ♪

>> and brad snyder new book -- in brad schneider's new book, the conventional wisdom about felix frankfurter. the biography notes scholars have pretrade frankfurter as a judicial -- have portrayed frankfurter as a judicial failure and the warren cour's principal villain and that none of these characterizations ring fruit. georgetown professor brad snyder uses 700 pages to examine frankfurter's life. >> brad schneider and his book democratic justice on this episode of book, notes plus available on the c-span now app or wherever you get your

podcasts. host: c-span now is a free mobile app featuring your unfiltered view of what's happening in washington live and on-demand. keep up with the biggest events with live streams of foreplay -- of four -- of floor proceedings at your fingertips. you can stay current with the latest episodes of washington journal and find scheduling information and a variety of compelling podcasts. c-span now is available at the apple store and google play. download it for free today. c-span now, your front row seat to washington. >> c-spanshop.org is c-span's online store. browse our collection of

apparel, products, books, home decor and accessories. there's something for every c-span fan. shop now or anytime at c-spanshop.org. >> american history tv, saturdays on c-span two, exploring the people and events that tell the american story. at 8 p.m. eastern on lectures of history, a professor, jaclyn beatty, talks about women's rights and changing political power during the american revolution and early years of the republic. and on the presidency, for 13 days in october of 1962, the u.s. faced the threat of nuclear war with the soviet union over the cuban missile crisis. the university of virginia's mark silverstone details the players and their negotiations.

exploring the american story. watch on saturdays on c-span two or anytime online at c-span.org/history. >> washington journal continues. host: the book is titled the big truth: upholding democracy in the age of the big lie. the co-authors are david becker and major garrett. what is the big lie and what is your sense at this point about how many people in america believe the big lie? guest: i wish i did not have to use that term. david does too. but it has become that, the big lie, because it's not true and the thing that is not true about the very big topic for a country

is what happened in the 2020 presidential and general election. what happened, actually, is it was an american achievement. i am not talking about the result. i am talking about what happened. what happened is this. we had the highest turnout in any presidential election in our country's history with the most diverse electorate ever. we did that on behalf of small d democracy in a pandemic with no vaccines and, let us remind ourselves, voting is not a socially distanced process ordinarily. so adaptions had to be carried out. those were challenged in court before the election. 400 lawsuits, the highest number ever, were adjudicated. what does that mean? everyone knew what the rules were. both parties, state parties,

national parties, candidates, everybody. and we did this. we trained for 400,000 brand-new poll workers via zoom, part of the highly technical, tactical process to have this election conducted safely, auditably and verifiably. in my childhood, that would be something that everyone would say is distinctively american, adaption under hard conditions, a demanding deadline, an unwillingness to fail, creativity, collaboration, innovation. all these things happened. that is the truth. we did something on behalf of all of us. it was grand and consistent with our best values. the big lie is the perpetual, profit driven, power driven

slander against what i described. host: what is the best way to debunk a lie? guest: one of the things we see from the election deniers, let of course by the losing presidential candidate, is they want everyone to engage in a game of whack a mole where they keep throwing up different claims, none of which can be proven in court, none of which they even offered to prove. they put them out on social media and fund raised off of them, whether it is bamboo ballots or dead venezuelan dictators or whatever it might be, they keep throwing those up and they hope they will try to address each one of those. the best way to talk about the big lie is to talk about the big truth major mentioned, and that is we just ran, thanks to the men and women, the professionals who run elections in the united states, we just ran the most secure, transparent and verified election in american history by

any objective measurement. we had more paper ballots than ever before. paper ballots are important because you can verify your choice. you can recount those paper ballots. you can audit those ballots to make sure the process worked as intended. in fact, 90 prior percent of all voters -- 95% of all voters in the u.s. voted on paper in 2020. that was about 85% in 2016 for comparison. states like georgia, south carolina, north carolina, virginia, pennsylvania all had significant numbers of non-paper ballots you couldn't go back to. in 2020, all of them had paper ballots. every battleground state had paper ballots and all those states audited those ballots. what audits do is you taycan counts of those ballots and count them and compare them to machines and if they match, you know they worked as intended, and that is what we

found in every place. major mentioned this. we had more scrutiny of the election and the rules beforehand to confirm the rules were fair and more post-scrutiny election by the courts -- and more postelection scrutiny by the courts. there's not been one shred of evidence presented to any court or agency that indicates there was any problem with the election that would have changed the result. host: we talk about all the people you interviewed for this, the research you did. major garrett, you start with a hypothetical, a fictional account. a hypothetical election 2022. why and what were you trying to show? guest: the pressures placed on american democracy are very real, and people feel unnerved and anxious about the future of our country. part of that anxiety is how do we cast and count ballots? we do that better than we have

ever done, as david indicated. republicans won more pre-election lawsuits than they lost, prevailed more frequently than the democrats did on the underlying rules of the election, and that is to the chagrin of democratic lawyers, let me say. so david and i started talking about, well, people still think there's something wrong with the 2020 election. some states changed their laws to give wider latitude to observers in polling places. might that create an unnecessary and unwelcome source of conflict? it might. what is that conflict is in a state that has, under its laws -- and we don't question them, just point out they exist -- what if the poll observer is in an open carry state and is legally armed at a polling place and something volatile and unexpected happened? could something deadly happened? it could. what if it did?

what pressures could that put on the system? what if that became a viral video? a representative from one party -- in our scenario, not a prediction -- in a place like texas, for example, where hypothetically all the things i described our true. what if a conflict -- and no one really knows why. we don't get into motives, but it gets out of hand, and a voter dies. pretty much accidentally. it happened. and it is a viral video. as we know, viral videos move at the speed of light. people start saying, what's going on? what's happening? could that commence in that moment and every moment after that a kind of unraveling of our attachment to one another? and could that become a

procedural unraveling in which the state of texas begins to disassociate itself from the federal government and the federal government vice versa through other means? i will not go through all the details. i want people to buy and read the book and enjoy it. but it is possible we could have not a civil war fought with bullets and bayonets, but one with speeches and executive orders and decrees and a procedural, gradual, self-righteous, self-justifying unraveling of the bonds of our union. we are very much afraid of that. we don't predict it, but we do believe there's there's something to our language about this and our sense of self and alienation from one another in this country that could make this scenario, which we present, possible. host: one paragraph from that scenario. the great cleaving could be

closer than we think. we can stop it. we must stop it. we as an ideal and spirit will, in abraham lincoln's words, will surely perish from the earth otherwise. the big lie is the book. you can call in this morning and join the conversation. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. you talk about us heading into this election. we are still focused on how the last election was run. let me play this from cnn's state of the union. it was one of the republican candidates in arizona, an interview with her on this topic. [video clip] >> i want to move on to another important issue particularly when it comes to your critical swing state of arizona, and that is what happened in 2020. you called the election corrupt,

stolen, rotten and rigged. there is no evidence of any of that presented in a court of law or anywhere else. that any of those things are true. so why do you keep saying that? >> there's plenty of evidence. we have 740,000 ballots with no chain of custody. those ballots should not have been counted. >> where is the evidence of that? >> there's plenty of evidence you can find. i'm happy to send it to your team. the problem is the media will not cover it. >> we have covered this extensively and what you just said has been debunked. >> one side of it. the real issue is that the people do not trust our elections. they have not since 2000. i have been a reporter. i have been sitting on your side of the desk for a long time. since 2000, we have americans who don't trust our elections. in 2004, they did not trust the elections. in 2016, kamala harris, amy

klobuchar and hillary clinton, everybody on the democratic side said the election had problems. >> there has been some of that, but in, 200 -- but in 2000, al gore conceded. in 2016, hillary clinton conceded. we did not see that in 2020. that is the difference. are you undermining faith in elections by saying that the 2020 election was stolen when there is no evidence to support that? >> in 2018, stacey abrams never conceded. she still has not. i do not hear cnn calling her an election denier. we have the right protected by the first amendment to question our government and elections. we still have the first amendment. and when you start seeing the media cancel people for questioning their government, then that is when we have a problem. >> from cnn's estate of the

union this past sunday, kari lake, arizona republican gubernatorial candidate. having these exchanges 20 days out from the next election. guest: and 716 days away from the last major election we had. we should be clear about what the facts show. the facts show there's no been no evidence brought about any of the claims you just heard or with regard to any claims made in any state that demonstrate there was significant problems with the 2020 election in any way. not one court case, including before trump appointed judges, found problems. we've had 716 days. in arizona, they hired an outside contractor to look at all the ballots in maricopa county. that was a competent effort. the media covered it extensively. even those contractors found that biden's margin of victory

was actually larger than had been previously reported in arizona. the republican attorney general of arizona, a former senate candidate this year who lost in a primary, recently referred one of the groups that has alleged fraud to the irs and fbi for raising money around the false claims of election fraud when his office, the republican attorney general, asked this group for evidence of fraud to back up their claims and refused to present them with anything. not that the evidence was insufficient. it was not presented. in georgia, they subpoenaed evidence about election fraud from the same group. they received nothing. time and again, they make these claims on television, social media. they do not want to bring them to court when they are subjected to scrutiny because they know they will fail, but they will continue to fund raise. they will try to gain temporary political power off them. there was a resource that said

president trump and groups around him raised $500 million off these lies. guest: i want to thank kari lake for unintentionally endorsing a good part of our book. host: explain. guest: we describe what happened in 2000. 137 votes was the margin in florida. there was a legitimate issue about voter intent because of ballot design. both sides agreed there was a legitimate question about what voters intended to do and how to best render a judgment about voter intentions in a closely divided state. we talked to one of the attorneys involved in that litigation and ultimately how al gore conceded. we also talk about the 2004 election and challenges brought by a very small number of democrats to that election over the state of ohio. we talk about that. we talk about 2016 and the issues raised and how, as the

sitting vice president, joseph biden gaveled down objections to the 2016 election. the process worked as intended. there was no mob outside the capitol in january 2017, storming it, beating up cops, desecrating the building, so, yes, that history is correct. democrats in small numbers raised objections and we further indicate in the book -- i will hand it off to david -- but some of the things raised in earlier elections by democrats found their way into trouble legal cases brought after 2020. david, take it from there. guest: one part of the book talks about the 26th election and we pose a fictional 2016 where the democrats might have gone down the same path as the supporters of the former president in 2020 and 2021 and what -- and it was difficult

to get there because that is never what happened. everyone conceded fairly early. the transition went fairly smoothly. there was no mob outside the capitol. if the obama administration had tried to corrupt the federal government, the fbi, the doj, the dod in the same way we now know president trump did, we ask republicans what they would have thought about that, if they thought that would have been a first amendment issue. guest: or an issue of the rule of law. they would not have and they would have been right. in papers put forward by the trump campaign, they cited some of the objections raised by democrats in previous presidential cycles. our point about this is this. election delilah -- collection to -- election denialism is not part of that.

of course i believe in questions. this is not about questions. this is about a fundamental attempt to sow and perpetuate doubts about something you have questioned, and the questions have been answered. if you persistently ask questions, you are not asking questions, you are sewing doubts. that can lead to dangerous and unpredictable things. host: we will get to some callers in this discussion. laura is in spokane, washington on the line for republicans. europe first. good morning. caller: good morning. hi, major, and the other guy. your claims have no credibility whatsoever. just the fact that cbs -- you and the rest of you covered up hunter's laptop and made that a total non-thing all about russia. it was not.

we have a horribly corrupt administration. the election has been proven in congressional hearings and by facts and investigations all over the place to have been rigged in all kinds of ways. you covered up -- you committed fraud on me, an american woman. host: you said all kinds of ways. what ways specifically? caller: the best way to answer that would be to go watch -- i want an answer on why it is you covered up hunter's laptop. host: that's laura in washington. we can talk about those topics. guest: sure. what i did in 2020 was cover election procedures. we have lots of investigative reporters. catherine heritage works at cbs. she, like me, used to work at fox. she has reported extensively on

this topic throughout. there are questions that people have about whether or not the hunter biden story would have tipped the election. that's fine. as a question. you can be aggrieved that certain media outlets didn't cover that story to your level of satisfaction. fine. but if we have learned anything in the last 15 years, it is that the media ecosystem is no longer confined, dominated or dictated by network news coverage or newspaper coverage. that era did once exist. i grew up in it. probably most of the people watching this program grew up in that era, where network news coverage dominated the narrative and newsmagazines dominated the narrative and big newspapers fed that narrative and power was tightly concentrated. that is no longer the media

ecosystem we live in by any stretch of the imagination. and all of those other parts of the media ecosystem that allow people to move information themselves, without any supervision or intervention of any large network or news organization, gives you a kind of power and a kind of pass along of information that makes what i would say your central grievance illegitimate, less powerful than it would have been 15 years ago. it's just a fact. and i know you -- i can hear in your voice you don't want joe biden to be president. i get that. and i honor and respect that. but that is not what we are talking about. displeasure with the outcome of an election is one of the burdens of participating in our constitutional republic and adhering to the basic requirements that democracy painfully imposes on all of us. guest: if i may, this is

extensively written about in the book, and we talked about that. we have empathy and understanding for the 34 million people who voted for the former president, who were sincerely disappointed by the outcome of the election. there's hardly anyone in the united states that has not experienced a significant electoral disappointment in the last decade. and that is something we have understanding for. however, many of those people have also been the targets of a gripped for quite some time -- of a grift for quite some time and have been told that he didn't lose an election that he clearly did by any objective measurement. they have been targeted for fundraising. a great example is the documentary they mentioned. it has been debunked widely. the group behind it has been subpoenaed by republican law enforcement in georgia. they have been asked for

evidence by republican law enforcement in arizona. they have refused to produce any evidence. the head of that group, when they've had to testify under oath in wisconsin, have admitted that there is no evidence of illegal votes. they are now under investigation likely by the irs and fbi. so before anyone forks over there $30 to see that movie, they should question what was behind it and who the target of it is. host: major garrett has been on this program more than 130 times. david becker, what is the center for election innovation and research? guest: i have been working for about 25 years on elections. i'm a former doj attorney. i worked under both president clinton and george toebbe bush -- george w. bush.

i founded the center, and we work with election officials all over the country, republicans, democrats, from alaska to florida, help them improve the process, how the system be more accessible, and also have more integrity and security. we worked a lot in that area and we are proud of the work we do across the country. one of the projects we have is the legal defense network for election officials. one of the things we talk about in the book is that, as a result of the lies that have been spread over the last two years, election officials and public servants across the country who administer elections, the professionals, have been under attack. they have been abused and harassed and threatened and often need legal advice and support, and the center, cochaired by a former white house lawyer and a former bush lawyer, helps with that. i have been on this program many

times and one of the things callers bring in is the sense that whatever they want locally is in washington. our elections are decentralized. they are localized in ways that a preponderance of people have talked to in my years coming on washington journal would admire and respect because it is so close to you. think about when you go to your polling precinct. people from the beltway are not swooping in to run your elections. those are your neighbors. my mother was a poll worker for 25 years in san diego , california, where i grew up. she took time off to be a poll worker. my oldest daughter was a poll worker in the 2020 election. they are how this decentralized, localized, viewable process plays itself out. it is as close to you as

anything left in our functioning, sometimes disappointing governing structure. do not attack it just because that makes you feel better, because you are attacking your neighbors. your calling them, and, by definition, neighbors in other communities, conspirators in a crime that never happened. host: this is bill on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you. i have been accused by my kids -- i'm 72. i can remember when abc was the new network. that being said, what i have seen and what i wonder and what i would like you all to comment on are rupert murdoch -- i can

remember before there were rupert murdoch products in the united states and how they sway people, i think, to feel as opposed to think. now, that is my observation. i hear constantly on this show the comparison between fox news and msnbc and it just makes me shake my head. it is like -- really? but any comments that you gentlemen could help me with. do you see a danger to our democracy with the spreading of rupert murdoch type news? guest: america has a kind of interesting history on this question of a partisan press.

if we have a partisan press now, it's not a new thing. we had partisan presses in the 19th century. state parties, local parties, sometimes candidates would own newspapers, and those would make sure to satisfy the political party, local or state, or the candidate, and would attack the other political party, which also typically owned a newspaper. so they would fight it out. it's a fascinating history in our country. i'm a graduate of the university of missouri school of journalism. it was founded by walter williams, who wanted to create a school that stood athwart the whole process, that professionalized journalism. it is called the journalist's crede. i have a copy i bought in 1981 when i was a student and i have carried it everywhere i have ever worked. i have worked for center-right

news organizations, fox, the washington times, and centerleft organizations, the journal, u.s. news & world report, cnn, cbs. you could divide my career roughly in half between those two. so i'm kind of a strange hybrid in this conversation. but the country is not injured or endangered by a partisan press necessarily. we survived it once. i am confident we can survive it again. what i worry about and what i fear and the reason david and i felt the calling to write this book is, in one particular place, we need to be absolutely regimented about our understanding of how we cast and count ballots and hold that as a space that is kind of a sanctuary from the other partisan disagreements. let's not partisanize the way we cast and count ballots. it is too important. guest: i am not a journalist.

i'm a lawyer, an election expert, and whether it is the hunter biden laptop story or whether it is the fbi revelation about hillary clinton's female servers, there is legitimate -- email servers, there's legitimate reason for skepticism and that is a good thing. be skeptical of the immediate you consume, particularly when it validates your pre-existing views. that is a healthy thing to be. that does not mean to distrust automatically. it means to question and look for other sources, particularly when it comes to election denial. the evidence is strong. there's zero evidence the election was stolen in any way and there are mountains of evidence that it was the most secure, transparent and verified election in american history. host: a caller in texas, independent, good morning.

first of all, i am an independent. i am not a republican or a democrat. i am not a big trump fan. his personality rubs me wrong but i think he did a great job in office because everything was good for me, because here is my -- for me, but here is my problem. i did research around the world and i found most -- let's go to europe. i found out, they allow no mail ballots. for absentee ballots, you have a reason not to show up and have id. when you mail it in, you have to copy your id and get it notarized. the reason they quit mail out s's fraud, corruption, stolen

elections. i found most democracies do not do mail-outs-out. i don't know if our election was stolen, but i know for my research the only countries that still do mail-in ballots are third world countries. they do mass mail outs -- guest: first, we have to understand we have had mail balloting in the u.s. since at least the civil war, and its relied upon not just by military and overseas citizens, but actually, it's been republican legislatures that have expanded the use of mail-in ballot inc.. why did they do that? it is likely because what we saw up until 2020 was that mail-in ballots tended to benefit republicans, who were most likely to vote by mail. they are usually older, property

owning people who rely upon the mail. republicans perceived that to benefit them and we saw a slight republican edge in mail-in ballot inc. prior to 2020, when the sitting president delegitimized a form of voting we've had for a long time and has been proven, document it by republicans and democrats, to be secure. there are so many checks and balances in that process. one other point i will make quickly, because this is something we often hear, is the rest of the world does it differently. well, we have been around as a democracy longer than most places in the world. we have more direct democracy in the u.s. than we do anywhere else. anyone in the u.s. knows there are dozens of races on any ballot. in some states, there are dozens of pages on a ballot. in most places in the world, there will literally be one race in any election. you are electing your member of parliament in most places or the leader of your country. in france, they literally just

gave colored pieces of paper to put in an envelope for one race. very easy to do quickly. it takes people in our country 10, 15 minutes to finish their ballot. oftentimes, it helps to have them, particularly for people who are older, who have disabilities. host: where does the big lie begin? where does hesitation over expansion of mail in balloting or drop boxes -- where does that end and where does the big lie begin? guest: it is a good question we take on in the book because we know that the 2020 election occurred in the context of covid, and we know and we write sympathetically to viewers, readers of our book, who say they changed a lot of things during covid and i was not comfortable with most of them. i did not like lockdowns.

i did not like the mass castle. i didn't like virtual learning. i did not like a lot of those things and the election changes fall under that umbrella.

sometimes change precinct locations. precincts were may be put into a larger voting center. locations were changed, methods were changed. all of that to increase the usability of the democratic process, the safety of participating in it, not just for voters but for election workers, and to go back to where we started. we did that. we did that thing. so we don't criticize and we don't wave a wagging, condemning, elitist finger in any direction on this. we want you to have these questions. one of the reasons we wrote the book is so you can find some answers. host: about 20 minutes left in this conversation. the book is the big truth. major garrett, david becker co-authors.

david becker, let me give you john in woodville, texas on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: thank you for having me. my question would be addressed to mr. becker. i have a couple of questions and it is -- now, if you google, it says the percentage of 18 and older that voted is 68%. correct? guest: it was about 66% of all legible voters -- of all eligible voters. caller: how many registered voters were there at the time of the election? guest: roughly 240 million registered voters in the united states, about 160 million of them who actually voted in 2020. caller: what was the percentage that actually voted?

guest: about two thirds of eligible voters. caller: prior to that, what was the average percentage of voters that actually voted that were registered to vote? guest: in previous presidential elections in recent years, about 60%, 61%. some elections get higher than that, some lower, but that is the range. host: are you concerned about registered voters versus actual voters? you don't think those numbers add up? caller: basically. i am kind of a numbers guy. guest: there are fewer registered voters than eligible voters. not every eligible voter is registered although we are doing better at that. many eligible voters are registered. of registered voters, we see, you know, not all of them vote, even in a presidential election. of registered voters, maybe 70%

of eligible voters, maybe 66% for 2020. in 2018, it was about 50% of eligible voters that voted in the midterms. we always see lower turnout in midterms. that varies widely. we don't know what to expect in 2022. 2000 14 was about 36% of eligible voters. guest: one thing i would point out is that, whatever you think of former president trump, one thing is absolutely certain. after 2016, he has been a driver of turnout. unquestionably. the midterm in 2018 was the highest turnout in a midterm election in 100 years. the presidential election of 2020 was the highest we ever had. the election in a few days will be a very high turnout midterm election, influenced in part by former president trump. so in that sense, he has fueled an activity and a participatory energy in democracy, in part --

he's not entirely responsible for that -- and we don't regard it as a bad thing. we want people to participate. the good news is the system was tested. it was resilient. it held. you may not like the result, and that is your privilege, but it held and it held because it works. host: a paragraph from your book. democracy no longer suffers from a lack of participatory energy. it suffers from a lack of respect, allegiance, knowledge, humanity and most of all trust. guest: this is something that for our american experiment we need to work on as americans. i am not asking you to believe me just because i am major garrett. there is no reason for you to do that. but there are ways to find things. our book is extensively noted -- everything we represent in the book is end noted. he can check it out yourself --

you can check it out yourself. david and i often have this conversation. we had to write this book. we just wish we didn't have to because -- are deeply emotional. a lot of people who went to the capitol, who went to court and said, i wish i hadn't done that. i am sorry. i believed something that was not true. i got caught up in something and thought i was doing something for the good of the country. i find out i was not. i deeply sympathize and i know lots of people feel that it is their right to have these questions and it is. just take on board the way we advanced the american experiment, which i deeply believe in, is to find the truth and carry it forward in furtherance of what america is

and can be. host: there's a section of the book where we talk about those doubts -- guest: there's a section of the book where we talk about those doubts. that's ok. we talked about male voting. president trump actually won a majority of states with significant male voting in 2016. those rules existed for decades. republican legislatures did not change them in four years. there were no questions raised in 2016 in states like utah and arizona, which had extensive mail voting, and which president trump won in 2016. because it was secure. my organization just put out a report yesterday talking about states that allow mail voting, and there have been a couple more that have allowed mail voting, missouri and south carolina, both republican legislatures, since 2020. they know it is secure.

they know it has integrity. some states do it more than others, but there is not a problem with the process. the reason questions are being raised is people have severe disappointment about the outcome. that is understandable but that is being exploited by the election losers. host: this is betty in zion, illinois, line for democrats. good morning. caller: first of all, i want to say please have trump's nice on your show. she knows trump better than anyone else. i want to talk about the gentleman talking about being safe at the polling place. you heard the two african-american women testify about what happened to them at the polling place. i have never seen anything like this before.

i'm going to say trump started all this stuff. but anyway, thank you for listening to me and have a good day. god bless america. host: thank you. guest: you are right. one of the reasons we wrote this book -- and major talked about his mother and all the poll workers we rely upon to give voice to american voters in our democracy. i get asked a lot if the harassment we are seeing toward those volunteer poll workers and the professional civil servants who run elections, all the way up to secretaries of state, is worse than ever before. the answer i give is we have never seen this before. imagine targeting these diligent, many of them volunteers, who give up their time to give voice to all of our neighbors, families and friends to make sure the voice is how -- is heard loud and clear, and

they did so in 2020 with the highest turnout ever. we did not even know everything we knew about the virus now and how it is transmitted. they plan for an election. they could not do it socially distanced. i talked to officials all the time. some of them were getting sick in planning in the days and weeks leading up to the election. they still accomplished this great achievement of the democratic process. the outcome you can have disagreements about. you cannot have disagreements about the process. the evidence is clear. thanks to all of you out there who volunteered to be poll workers, the best way to learn how the process works, why it's possible to steal a major national election, why there's so many checks and balances in place and redundancies and transparencies, volunteering to be a poll worker, you will see it first hand. host: independent, good morning. caller: this question is for

major or david. either one can answer it. i noticed major had mentioned that his family members had been poll workers. i'm actually an election judge in illinois and i have called in on the independent line because i didn't want to give a party affiliation, which i have to do to be an election judge, just so you know. i have been doing it for a number of years, partly to get involved and understand the process and what's going on. you can probably appreciate that election training is pretty extensive. we have some people, young people, that try to get engaged with this and they are overwhelmed with the whole system and what it takes, but one of the hallmarks and one of the key hallmarks of being an election judge and being at a polling place in that time is the confidentiality and secrecy of the ballots being submitted. you have to take great care

about who is in the polling place, who goes with the person if somebody is disabled, going in and helping them vote, and handling the ballot. it has to be very secretly done. so i will just anecdotally give you a situation which concerns me being an election judge and how elections are handled is i have a neighbor. there's a number of family members that vote in that household. this is a suburban location. i can talk to one family member about, you know, what is going on election wise and i know this person will come in and interject themselves. my concern is, like, being an election judge, let's say three ballots are sent from this household, and they all come at the same time. who is going to guarantee the secrecy and confidentiality of

how those ballots are filled out in any household? that is one of my major concerns. and i think everybody should be concerned about that whether it is republican or democrat. i would like to hear their answers on how to maintain that secrecy. host: i would like to take that up, and can i just ask you, since you have experience in the field, are you concerned about physical security of the poll the workout and the other election judges you talk to, how much trepidation is there about how the election will be run and go off? caller: well, i think in a suburban location in chicago, most people are very cordial. most people are very friendly about things. so i really have no trepidation specifically in terms of my duties as election judge, but my

major concern is just the process of -- host: valid security. we will take that up. guest: thank you for your service. thank you for serving as an election judge. our system relies upon people like you and you talk about the training and how professional and extensive it is and that's important. it is important to note that with regard to mail balloting, there is not a single jurisdiction in the united states there requires ballots to be returned by mail. you can vote in person and in most places you can vote really conveniently in person. host: can you carry in your mail in ballot question mark -- in ballot? guest: you can or you can come in with your un-mailed ballot and fill out a new ballot so

long as you surrender it. there are multiple checks and balances to ensure no one can vote twice. that does not happen to any degree that is significant. so you can either vote on a regular ballot in a polling place, you can take your mail ballot to an election office or voting center. you can fill out a provisional ballot in a polling place. that is available to voters regardless. if a voter feels like they are being pressured, they should take advantage of that. they used to be part of our history that there would be vote buying and pressuring in families and businesses and organizations, etc. we see that much less than ever before. there are many checks and balances in place. there are places where you vote with a mail ballot under duress, you can go in later and ask for that to be canceled. host: is there a receipt -- that

is why there is no receipt. guest: that is right, because that is how vote buying was done in the past. you could present it to someone to show you voted a certain way. that does not happen anymore. the paper ballot you used to vote can be marked by hand, digitally, whatever it is. that is the ballad of record. no one else can get in the way of that. anyone who is listening, if you have any questions about whether you might be being pressured to vote a certain way and someone might want to pierce that ballot secrecy, go to your local election website, find out where to vote in person, and vote in person. guest: and most jurisdictions have early in person voting to make this a process that's not confined to one day, which can create its own comp locations. so if you prefer the secrecy and accountability in a voting booth, you can go early. guest: i tend to vote early in

person. mail voting is also secure, but look at what's happening in georgia. they are on their third day of early voting in georgia and are breaking records with regard to midterm elections with early voting and are getting close to the record early voting they had in the 2020 presidential election in that state. it is remarkable, secure, convenient. you can pick the day and time. good has never been easier to vote in the u.s. and for almost every voter in the u.s. you will find the process is convenient and familiar. host: five minutes left in our program. the book again the big truth: upholding democracy in the age of the big lie. we had to west virginia, dale waiting on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: good morning, john and major. mr. becker, more of a comment. i don't feel that the election -- i don't think i will ever agree with it.

i just think there's too many moving parts. i think the more moving parts you have in anything, there could be problems. it is more of that. i just do not feel confident in them. host: what would you need to be confident in the next election, dale? what would you need? caller: i believe we should have same-day voting, not month-long voting. if you cannot get to a voting booth, maybe you don't need to vote, you know? guest: so lots of states have taken this question on and lots of states have come to a different conclusion. one of the reasons -- and i will defer to david on this because he has greater experience in the evolution of this process -- but

one of the reasons they have gone to many days is to spread out the efficiency and verifiability of this process, so there is more accountability, more checks and balances, and the system is less stressed than it would be concentrating record turnout, for example, in georgia, into one day. to broaden the franchise, meaning here's more access points for you, in this country, i think it is fair to say this is not a partisan observation, we all lead busy lives, and many jurisdictions, under pressure from constituencies, say we should open this up so there's more opportunities, and as those have been increased, those on the professional side say this actually is a better way to handle supply and demand issues on the election professional side. guest: major is right. if you think about any system, you don't want to concentrate a ton of activity in a short time.

that creates a crucible with a lot of pressure, where if anything goes wrong, that could explode. especially as we have seen foreign adversaries tried to, for instance, hack into voter registration bases. we have seen domestic actors trying to spread misinformation. the more you spread voting out over a series of days, giving the vote of when to do it, the more you do it, the more secure your system is. if there's a problem with the voter registration database in georgia, they would have learned about it on monday, three weeks before the election, and not tuesday at noon on november 8 when they would not have been able to fix it. the resiliency of the system depends upon dispersing the activity over a period of time, in any professional election administrator, from the most conservative republican to

liberal democrat, will tell you that creates a more secure, resilient system. that is why 46 states offer some form of early in person voting and some form of mail voting. guest: and think about this. we have changed district lines because of redistricting. that means some of our precinct have changed. if you go in early to the wrong precinct, it is a problem you can remedy. this process minimizes the chance of someone being disenfranchised just because they are confused. we don't want that. host: one last call in the couple minutes we have left. ron in new jersey, republican, go ahead. caller: thank you. first, i apologize. i have a cold. i want to make -- the premise of the book is donald trump never provided any evidence the election was not stolen.

i think you have given donald trump too much credit. he is an expert in feeling out what to do in situations. i am not saying he did write. however, he figured out he did not have to provide proof. all he had to do was cast reasonable doubt, like in a murder trial. i am sure you have been to court. i am not a lawyer. you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the client is innocent. that is what donald trump did. he did not provide proof. what i'm trying to understand is you probably provide mountains of proof that the election was legitimate, but he didn't provide any proof. that is the american system. that is the way it works, isn't it? guest: actually that's not the way it works. if the election has been certified in every state and you

are claiming that's wrong, you have to bring the proof to court. you have to subject the evidence to scrutiny and see if the court is going to buy it. in this case 60 courts and eight trump appointed judges didn't. the losing candidate has to present evidence. he failed in every way and we have learned from the january 6 committee hearing that they were ending this before they even knew what the election results were going to be. host: how do you debunk alive? -- a lie? guest: look at every member of congress who is from pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan, arizona, georgia. did i randomly, exercising their duly delegated constitutional authority because the will of the voters said they should. exactly what happened at the top of the ticket.

our best verifiers reside in the capitol building. republicans from all of those states. same ballot, same process, they are here, it's what happened. host: again, "the big truth," co-authors major garrett and david becker, thank you for your time this morning. that will do it for us here on "the washington journal," but we will be back here tomorrow morning at 7 a.m. eastern. have a great day. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2022] ♪ >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government funded by these television companies and

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