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gubernatorial race is a rematch between republican governor prime gap -- brian kemp -- and stacey abrams. brian cap -- up next, the first of two scheduled debates. ♪ >> i am the host of georgia public broadcasting -- welcome to our debate series from the studios of georgia public broadcasting. this is the general election to the rate -- debate.

they are stacey abrams, a democrat, an attorney. shane hazel, a veteran and podcast coast. brian kemp is the republican governor for the state of governor. greg bluestein is a political reporter for the atlanta georgia -- constitution and this is a reporter for wrbl. four complete rules, visit the atlanta website. each candidate will be asked two questions and candidates have 60 seconds to answer each question.

>> miss abrams, public opinion polls in our state show support for the right to abortion, medicaid expansion and banning assault weapons. you are on the side of public opinions in each of these issues. yet, you were behind in almost every poll, why? ms. abrams: thank you for having me and i appreciate the opportunity to address the community of georgia. the reason people on my side are because i'm on the right side of history and on the right side of the issues. but we also know that polls are snapshot. the question is, who are they taking a picture of. when i go across the state, the people i'm talking to are excited about this election. they also know they are often left out of the conversation. students who have found themselves struggling to finish college because they don't have access to financial aid. families that are struggling to

decide between food on their table and health care costs. families facing rising prices and everyone i've met is afraid of the gun violence in the rising violence in the state. i do not believe that i'm behind, i believe i making the case for georgia, the case for electing me as the next governor because the current failures we have seen in the state are not only damming, they are disqualifying. over the next few years we have an opportunity to change the trajectory of the state and i look forward to leading our state forward. >> greg bluestein, it is your turn to ask a question of brian kemp. >> in recent weeks, two recordings have surfaced in which you left the door open to questions about whether you pushed to get emergency contraceptives and whether you nacl --back a statewide ban on the distraction of embryos. can you tell us whether you push for these measures or any other additional restrictions on abortion now that the 2019 law is in effect? gov. kemp: no, i would not. we were at many campaign events, people come up, secret recordings and completely understand the conversation going on, but that's not my desire to do that, georgia and should know my desires to continue to help them fight the 40 year high inflation and high gas prices and others rains at -- other things that our georgia families are facing right now. quite honestly because of bad

policies and washington, d.c. from president biden and the democrats that have complete control. working with the georgia general assembly, we have been able to work to help give some relief to people despite what's happening in washington, like giving an income tax credit back to our citizens, cutting taxes, suspending the gas tax for -- since march now, $800 million of relief for our hard-working citizens. that is what my focus has been on and is what it will continue to be on. donna: jennifer bellamy, your question for shane hazel. jennifer: georgia seems to be struggling right now and dealing with how to legally take on the issue of cannabis in this day, what do you think needs to be done? how should georgia address the issues surrounding marijuana? >> a perfect question for a libertarian, we believe that cannabis is a plant that grows from the earth naturally. and the hubris of the federal government has shown in making a schedule one drug is holding -- while also holding patents on

it is one of those things that we find laughable. it is a right of people, it is medicine, it is something that we can add to our industry here in georgia and really displays a lot of what comes in from outside of georgia. this is a huge win for georgia. we have a great agricultural sector, we can grow two bumper crops of cannabis every year. the idea that it is still illegal and that brian kemp has talked about this and tweeted about it and it's a good thing when we make cannabis bus only, it is a real sign that the government in georgia is using it for the prison industrial complex, for the law enforcement complex to go after communities that would like to see freedom in this area. so it's a right. that's how we see it as libertarians. donna: thank you very much. you have a rebuttal? gov. kemp: i would like to make sure people at home know that i was doing exactly what i said i would do that i was campaigning for governor.

now that i am your governor, we have been going after street gangs and drug cartels. so what we are tweeting out there is when our great men and women in law-enforcement are making drug busts not from recreational use, but that's what my focus is on. donna: greg, please ask a question of stacey abrams. >> in 2018, you did not concede to governor kemp. this election do you commit to except the outcome of the vote guard this of what it shows? if you stand by use of words like riggs to describe the states election system? ms. abrams: in 2018, i began my speech on november 16, acknowledging governor kemp won the election. i then laid out in great detail the challenges faced by voters under his leadership as secretary of state, including the 10 plus two who were arrested in georgia because they had the temerity to use absentee ballots. i told the story of students denied access to the right to

vote, even though they were duly registered. 80,000 complaints had come in by that day and it took four years of federal investigation and a lawsuit that was the longest running voting rights lawsuit is right. we did not win every single claim, but we force net massive -- we forced massive changes to election laws. unfortunately brian kemp and brad raffensperger decided to restore their greatest hits. just today, a homeless woman was denied the right to vote in forsyth county because she did not receive a provisional ballot because she had been challenged. as governor, i intend to stand up for the right to vote. i will always acknowledge the outcome of elections but never -- i will never deny access to every voter, because that is the responsibility of every american, to defend the right to vote. donna: thank you. ryan cap, rebuttal, -- brian kemp, rebuttal, 30 seconds. gov. kemp: ms. abrams is going to do a lot of attacking of my record tonight because she doesn't want to talk about her own record.

in 2018, in the governors race we had the largest african-american turnout in the country. she said this -- our recent elections integrity act where we passed two years ago would be suppressive and jim crow 2.0. just this past may and our primaries we had record turnout in the republican primary and the democratic primary. in georgia, it's easy to vote and hard to cheat. mr. hazel: as a libertarian, although you will push for people to have access to go into -- going to the polls and voting, you are pushing valid access. this is a huge oppression for people like the third parties and people that want to get people on the ballot. we have 20% democrats, 20% republicans in the state of georgia, that leaves 60 percent of people in georgia unrepresented by ballot access laws that both of them support. ms. abrams: i cosponsored legislation to expand ballot access because i agree with you that third-party should have better access to the right to vote in the state of georgia. i cosponsored it with one of our independence in the state

legislator. but let's be clear about out -- ballot access and voter access. brian kemp was a secretary of state and he has denied access to the right to vote. we know that the right to vote is the only way that we can make the changes we need in the state. the only way we can make the changes we need in this country. whether it's access to the right to abortion, the ability to take care of our families, we need a governor who believes in the right to vote and not in voter suppression, which is a hallmark of brian kemp's leadership. gov. kemp: with all due respect, i was called out. i want the record to reflect as my time as secretary of state, i'm the person that created the online voter registration system in this state. where any georgian can vote, register to vote 24 hours a day, seven days a week. for someone to say that we have been suppressive in our state when we have seen turnout increase over the years, including with minorities like african-americans, latinos and others, is simply not true.

again, ms. abrams is going to lie about my record because she does not want to talk about her own. donna: we are going to move on here. jennifer, your question for brian kemp. jennifer: several hospitals and medical centers across the state have announced or gone through with plans to close their doors, leaving a gap in care and reduction in services at a time when our health care workers are already suffering from burnout, from increased demand and workload. many are now facing care that will be delayed or unavailable while the state's capital will soon have only one level one trauma center. what will you do to ensure georgians have access to critical health care services in hospitals? gov. kemp: i would remind voters at home there is also hospitals being built across the state new -- and new options for people for health care. the amc situation was something thrown on a lot of political leaders, including me. but instead of complaining about it and doing the blame game, i went and worked with fulton county, with the cab county,

with democrats to come up with a solution that puts state resources into grady, to health, -- to help make sure people have the access in the care that they need in our state, and i'm committed to continuing to do that in the future. donna: all right, shane, -- chuck, you get the final question to shame hazel. --shane hazel. >> mr. hazel, you ran for congress in 2018, that was four years ago. less than 30% of the room -- voat ago. -- vote in the republican primary. what happened between then and now that made you a libertarian? mr. hazel: i actually came back to my roots as a libertarian. we believe in freedom. we saw with the republican party was and what the democratic party was. they were forcing coercion. no matter what they talk about they are forcing coercion. whether it's need for hospitals, taking guns away from law-abiding citizens, it is always forcing coercion at the point of a gun from the democrats and republicans.

to look at life through consent, we can all have transactions, we do it every day in the private sector, 99.9% of us go throughout our day without raping people, without murdering people, without pointing guns at people to take their property . that is not with the government does under republicans and democrats. period. that's why i became a libertarian, this is why we are going to send this thing into a runoff. and if people were really looking for something to change, you would vote libertarian. you send a message to both of these parties because one of these people will most likely be the executive in a rigged system that you want to be more free. donna: thank you. that concludes the first round of the debate. the candidates will now ask a question to each of their opponents. candidates will have 30 seconds to ask a question, 60 seconds to respond, and the candidate who asks the questions will have 30 seconds for a rebuttal. by random selection, brian kemp, you may ask the first question to stacey abrams. gov. kemp: thank you very much. as many people know, i have over

100 sheriffs endorsing my campaign, several which are democrats. my question for ms. abrams tonight is how many sheriffs statewide have publicly endorsed your campaign? ms. abrams: mr. camp, --kemp, what you are attempting to do is continue to lie that you've told so many times and i think you believe it's the truth. i support law enforcement and did so for 11 years. i worked closely with the sheriffs association. i'm probably the only person standing here who ever has written an sop for a police department when i worked for the city of atlanta. i have two brothers, one who has committed crimes and i want his victims to call the police and get the help they need and i've always supported that right. but i have another brother who has faced being pulled over for driving while black when he was coming back from his job -- job as a social worker. unlike you, i don't have the luxury of relying on slogans to describe my position on public safety. i believe we need safety and justice because i love both of my brothers. like most georgians, i lead a complicated life or we need -- where we need access to help

but also need to know we are safe from racial violence. while you may not have had that experience, too many people i know have, and that is why i will always stand up for making certain that safety and justice are the conversations we are having in georgia and the delivery we have is the next governor of georgia. donna: thank you. 30 seconds, mr. kemp. gov. kemp: i would tell people i support safety and justice in -- ms. abrams refused to answer the question. so i will let you know the answer is zero. no sheriffs are endorsing her statewide because of her stance on wanting to defund the police, eliminate cash bail and serving on the board of organizations like the margaret casey foundation that supports and gives grants to organizations that are promoting the defund the police movement. ms. abrams: if i may respond because he actually live there. -- he actually lied there. i do have the support of sheriffs, but unlike mr. kemp i do not make it my plan to list every person who supports me. i have the support of sheriffs, advocates, victims and those who

want to be treated fairly in our system. i have to have conversations with the entirety of georgia. i don't have the luxury of being a part of a good old boys club where we don't focus on the needs of our people. and that is why my admission has -- my mission has been to put out very concrete plans explaining how i will serve justice, how i will serve safety and how i will serve the citizens of the state of georgia. donna: 30 seconds. brian kemp. gov. kemp: i would just tell people, i know ms. abrams is upset and mad because these are things that she said, this is not me making this up, this is things that she said in interviews that she's done and she's sitting on an organization that you could go look at the facts yourself. and that's why the men and women in law enforcement want to governor that is going to stand with them, who has been with them, not only to have their back, but also stand shoulder to shoulder on things like civil unrest and going after street gangs and human traffickers. donna: thank you very much. stacey abrams, you get the next question for shane hazel. ms. abrams: mr. hazel, republicans and democrats have

raised the alarm over the rise in the chinese communist party . that company purchasing american farmland. today, they purchased more than one million acres of farmland in the state of georgia. would you agree with mike pompeo that allowing those purchases in the state of georgia is a sign of madness, and would you be concerned about the national security implications of the chinese communist party purchasing this land with the support of the state of georgia? mr. hazel: i see the set up of this question and i understand why it was projected at me. as libertarians, we believe that you own your property and that the state cannot take it away from you and can't sell it or can't determine who you sell it to. the ccp, which is going through its own internal unrest right now, i believe is probably with purchasing this with things like central-bank, digital dollar, s and yuan, which are also

coming down to a critical nature where people are in uprising in china. what we need to look at is how these purchases are being made. are we accepting fiat ccp yuan in georgia as an actual currency? it's about his good as the u.s. currency, the fiat currency we will have foisted on us in terms of the cbdc. i won't tell you or anybody else as governor how or who to sell your property two. and i imagine that in the end, the free market will work itself out. donna: thank you. stacey abrams, 30 seconds. ms. abrams: the state of georgia is watching our farmland be purchased by the chinese communist party. while it is normally not a conversation we have, it is something we should be concerned about. agriculture is our number one industry and georgia has 13 military installations. the fact that the state of georgia is working with the chinese communist party using one of their technologies that both donald trump and joe biden have warned is a national

security threat. it should be of great concern to every georgian. it is not about being concerned simply about who is owning all -- the land. it is is about how much access to our information they have. donna: you may ask your question of stacey abrams. mr. hazel: i agree, the military-industrial complex is a big problem. the fact that we have people trying to come here to get a backdoor into our military, i think one of the things we should be talking about and -- as georgians and executives is the defendant the guard act. where our military has been used haphazardly around the world to go and take resources from the middle east or -- my question is --to who? donna: your question two race abrams. ms. abrams. >> we already switched gears.

i mentioned it as the executive georgia when we come into a cbc from the federal reserve, will you, as the executive, except the ccp style currency? ms. abrams: the conversation about currency as a complicated one. the very real security threats with currency, the hacking and mining of that digital currency should concern all georgians. as a governor of georgia i will work very closely with the federal reserve, but also the innovators and entrepreneurs do -- who do see an opportunity. but before we take a step forward that could put us at risk, our responsibility is to understand the complexity of what is happening with these transactions and as exciting as it is, we know it's deeply problematic when we do not have the adequate safeguards in place. that's one of the reasons i ways -- raised concerns about we chat and about the purchase of farmlands. what we know is we need a governor conversant in these -- who is conversant in these issues that understands that for example, in the state of georgia, we have access to $3.5 billion in american currency that could be delivered tomorrow

to save our hospitals and to save our lives. but our current governor has refused to accept those dollars. my intention is to do what's best for the state of georgia. donna: thank you. shane hazel, you get a 30 second rebuttal. mr. hazel: working with the federal reserve who got us into the mess that we are in right now because of a central rise to fiat currency, it would be worthless. they would be dangling carrots in front of the governor, in front of executives, in front of the legislator to do what their mandates are. if they are mandating that they take the property of people, then they will do it. if they want to invade your homes, your privacies, your businesses, they will do it because of cbdcs. donna: donna: stacey abrams, your question to brian kemp. ms. abrams: mr. kemp, under your leadership there is currently a

100 year gap between minority owned businesses and majority-owned businesses. minorities comprise 48% of the population, they only generate 12.2% of the business revenue in the state. and under every analysis we have seen, it will take 100 years to close that gap, given the current process you have in place. you served four years of the senate, eight years as secretary of state in charge of businesses and you served four years of governor. what are your concrete, specific targeted plans to decrease and address the racial equity cap currently facing contracting and purchasing for minority owned businesses? gov. kemp: i will remind georgians that the first part of my plan was keeping our stay open for business and allowing all business people and working georgians to work when stacey abrams was criticizing me for doing that. also pushing to get our kids back in the classroom when , again, stacey abrams was criticizing me for doing that. a lot of georgians, including african-americans and other minorities, cannot go to work if their kids are not in the classroom. we had the lowest unemployment rate in the country for african-americans. we also were named -- we are in

the top 10 of the states for black entrepreneurship in the state of georgia. so our economy is incredible and we will continue to work with all of those entrepreneurs in the days ahead and working class georgians, because we are the ones that have been fighting for you when ms. abrams was not. we were giving tax refunds, we were doing tax cuts, we were suspending the gas tax to help you deal with 40 year high inflation when she was criticizing us. donna: 30 second rebuttal. ms. abrams: i would point out mr. kemp did not approve black and brown owned businesses, which is what he refused to do for the last 16 years. we know that $10.9 billion has been delivered to the state of georgia through two recent acts at the congressional level and brian kemp does not have a plan for making sure that people of color have access to those contracts, access to purchasing. it was only in july this year that he acknowledged there might be a problem. he has said that we need to study. i would tell him to cheat off my paper. i know the answer. we need a governor who believes

in racial and economic equity in the state of georgia and i will deliver. donna: shane hazel, ask your question to brian kemp. mr. hazel: in 2020 on april 2 , you locked down georgia threatening peaceful people with forcing coercion. you call people in -- called people in georgia non-essential. and it killed millions of jobs. you met the need of big pharma and pushed a vaccine that was untested on people and has killed people. they even lost their loved ones. you allow democracy to invade our businesses and then you had the audacity to brag about record tax revenue. do you want to say sorry to anybody? gov. kemp: is that a question? mr. hazel: that is a question. do you want to say sorry to anybody? gov. kemp: i would be glad to talk about my record because obviously mr. hazel is greatly -- gravely mistaken. if you look at the executive orders that i signed, we said every business in georgia was essential. there was a few that we ask to -- asked to help us stop the

spread, build ppe supplies in -- and hospital bed capacities because unlike him, i was getting the calls from hospitals saying, we are out of surgical gowns, we are out of masks, we need ventilators, and we were literally working 24/7 to supply those items while also keeping our economy open in this state. and as you know, i was the first state to open the small parts that we asked to close in our -- and our recovery has been as good as any state in the country. we have had two record years of economic development because of our business environment, working with the general assembly, to make sure we are putting georgians first and georgia businesses in georgia -- and georgia workers first, and that's what i'm committed to continuing to do. donna: 30 seconds. mr. hazel: mr. hazel: you should've put georgia freedom first. you didn't have the power to lockdown businesses and you saw it in the executive order. it was clear as day. i watched you'd do it -- i watch you do it and i said there is no

coming back from this. i guess the default was to lock down georgia instead of trusting georgians with their freedom to adapt in a time of very changing circumstances, i think is a tyrant move, and i think the left and right are fascist and communist, socialist where we are talking about real liberty, trusting georgians with those decisions. donna: thank you, mr. hazel. brian kemp, you have the final question in this round for shane hazel. gov. kemp: i would just ask mr. hazel if he supports the things that we have done because we were open and georgians were working and we've had excess revenue. so instead of doing -- mr. hazel: that is our tax money. i don't support it. when we get to that point -- we -- rep. luria: -- ms. abrams: -- gov. kemp: do you support the tax cuts we've done returning a billion dollars of taxpayer

money and suspending the gas tax for georgians to help fight through 40 year high inflation and that domestic energy policy? mr. hazel: libertarians think taxation is theft. it's your money, it's your property, you should determine what you do with it. i don't support the fact that you have not ended qualified immunity. i don't support the fact that you haven't ended civil asset forfeiture and i don't support the fact you haven't ended the drug war or nonviolent crime. you haven't ended cash bail or no-knock raids. you haven't implemented the community boards and you haven't banned blacked out cop cars that go after people for more money. it's ridiculous. de-escalation one -- id executive, leave people alone. that's my message to both of you, to everybody in the state who wears a badge. stop going after peaceful people. donna: mr. kemp, 30 second rebuttal. gov. kemp: that's simply not true. as georgians know, i've followed the laws on the constitution of this

state. i ran on going after criminal street gangs because i knew there was an issue when other people would not talk about in the media and would not acknowledge it. you look at the amount of fentanyl coming across the border, because of bad porter -- border policies from this administration. ever need god -- every governor in the country had to deal with it. i will go after bad people. they are selling bad drugs and killing children and citizens. rep. schiff: -- mr. hazel: the free market away to do that is to allow cannabis and silicide and -- handle mental health. >> gentlemen we will move on. that concludes our second round for thus joining us. this is the general election debate between the candidates. we will go back to the panel to ask questions to the candidate of their choice until we run out of time. as a point of moderator privilege, i may ask questions of the candidates. i will determine when a rebuttal is appropriate. i will use that privilege away to ask education questions. mr. kemp.

if reelected, you will push for $65 million, dedicated to fighting a learning loss hiring counselors and recruiting teachers to fill shortages. how do you respond to those who say it you should've prioritized those academic related issues over laws dealing with divisive concepts, parental law and books -- obscene books in the past legislative session. even those who are pushing for those laws in the end they do not have much teeth. ms. abrams: -- gov. kemp: you can talk to school superintendents around the state. we worked with them over the last year and a half year on learning loss. we have been working with our superintendents and education groups. we passed two pieces dealing with the teacher pipeline. which is getting more teachers into the system. our plan is working with higher education, including our hbcus and others to make sure we are getting the right people and of -- more of them in the classroom to help mentor our children. this is the next step in the

process. we are finding --funding k-12 education more than we ever have been per-pupil, ever. that is coming off of recession -- of a recession during a pandemic. this includes my promise teacher pay raise of $5,000. that we completed in my first full term, despite having to deal with two years of a global pandemic and recession so i think it is incredible what we have been doing. we have more work to do, and i am committed to -- doing it. donna: shane hazel, would you tell us your education plan? mr. hazel: it's to put us in the private sector. the government education system that came from prussia in the 1800s has failed americans. we don't understand economics, we don't understand our civil culture, we don't understand a whole lot about what goes on behind the scenes in politics. the idea that we want to privatize everything as libertarians is good for education. think about walmart having a

monopoly forced to teach your children. it's insane. the idea we do this with a government, it has side effects. we see them on a daily basis. we need to get government out of education and allow parents to seek out the best education for their kids and we also believe they have the responsibility to do so. to help fix this nation, to start here in georgia, get the government and admin out of the classroom and get it out of our lives. donna: thank you. ms. abrams, in education, you proposed a boost in teacher pay, more state paid preschools for -- preschool slots for lower income children and their families and more. if you win the governor's race, you will likely have republican majorities in both chambers. given what we know about partisan divisions, how will you get your education proposals passed and funded? ms. abrams: let's begin with what my proposals are. georgia is sitting on a $6.6 billion surplus.

that's after we put everything -- 15% aside for a rainy day fund, that is money after we accounted for increases in population, and i want to invest it in our children and in our families. beginning with making certain we we have -- we have pre-k scott --slots. we have four-year-olds on the waiting list. i've never met a four-year-old who waits to turn five, but we can solve the problem with the money we have now. we can give an $11,000 pay raise to our teachers instead of a $5,000 raise on layaway. we can increase access to pipelines because teachers don't -- parts in the pipeline because they don't make enough money to care for themselves and their families. that's why under this governor, we have a 67% retention rate. any other ceo who lost 34% of -- more than 34% of their workforce would be fired. that is why my plan to plan for today and tomorrow. we've got the money and we have economists in georgia and national economists who have looked at my plan and they say it works. check my plan out.

it is staceyabrams.com. check my math out, it works. gov. kemp: my plan is to use the revenue we have, we have been open. if stacey abrams had been your governor for the last four years because -- years, you would not have that excess revenue. she wanted to stay locked out and criticized me when opened up. we have been using this revenue, and will do so in the future to do another income tax refund. put the money back in your pocket. we are going to a property tax relief grant. one time that helps you with the rising property values and taxes that the counties are not rolling back. ms. abrams: if i may respond. mr. hazel: i will say -- donna: mr. hazel, we have to move on. i am not excluding you but he did refer to her -- -- mr. hazel: because i don't

agree with them. donna: we want to move on. >> i want to -- 38,000 people died in georgia. we had county were ever wanting -- we had county, one in yes, i urge caution but i also urge good math. we have the money in our account to do what is right, delivered by federal democrats and hard-working georgians who generated the surplus and the income taxes that we keep hearing about that 50,000 people are getting $500 million -- donna: thank you. mr. hazel, 30 seconds. mr. hazel: stolen money from people have property. we have property tax in america as one of the most un-american things i heard of.

there are a lot of us that homeschool because we do not believe in the government school system. we are fleeced every year to the tune of thousands of to pay for dollars broken school system we do not agree with. mr. kemp: with all due respect, ms. abrams called me out again. our state was open. we did not have to use this money to backfill state revenues. which put us in an incredible position to move forward. donna: we are going to move on. gentlemen and ms. abrams. mr. hazel: it is highly likely

the legislature will remain in republican control. how are you going to win approval of these measures in the staunch of republican opposition? ms. abrams: i do not believe there staunch opposition. i served in the legislature for 11 years. every day during my tenure, i worked across the aisle to get done. they put it in my title. i was minority leader. that means i could not win unless i worked with others. that is why i got an a rating from the chamber of commerce and the labor award for the same work in the same year. the works i do is working with people to find out how we get solutions. medicaid expansion is perfect. we have 19 hospitals at risk of closure. joining the six hospitals that have closed under this governor. we are sending $3.5 billion to kentucky to louisiana because this governor will not accept the money. the resources we need in our state will come to our state when we have leaders willing to work across the aisle to bring our money home.

it is more important than that. it is about how do we take care of our families and make sure we are addressing housing prices and how do we tackle the issue of gun violence and support our freedom and protect our people and we need a governor who can do the math but also do the morality of making sure we take care of every single georgian. donna: governor kemp, you have 30 seconds. gov. kemp: one way we deal with gun violence is to take the bad people doing the shootings and lock them up. not cash bail like this abrams wants to do. she has also said the silver bullet on health care is medicaid expansion adding 600,000, 650,000 people. there's been 600,000 people added to the medicaid rolls since i've become governor and the problem is it is a broken government program which the government decide your health care that will kick 200,000 private citizens off their private sector health care. donna: 30 second rebuttal.

ms. abrams: medicaid expansion will allow 500,000 georgians who are working people to get access to health care. that's a good thing in a state where we have people dying every day from cancer, from issues with diabetes, issues with heart disease. number two, the 600,000 people he references on medicaid are there because of the public health emergency. when that ends, they will lose health care which will add more people who are on the streets unable to get health care. under this governor, we've lost six hospitals and have ambulance wait times that are excessive and our people need relief. donna: we want to give our panelists a chance to ask more questions. it is your turn to ask a question. >> governor, the democrats have controlled the u.s. senate for two years. georgia shifted from two republicans to two democrats in january of 2021. one of the seat was held by

kelly loeffler, a person you appointed to that post. she lost to senator warnock. do you wish you had made a different choice when you selected kelly loeffler? gov. kemp: not at all. i was excited about her candidacy. i know she worked extremely hard. it was a very challenging environment in 2020. i think it goes to the point that in 2020, watching that election, i learned a lot of lessons. a lot of things we had not been doing with the ground game from a political perspective we are now doing. making sure when we are campaigning, making sure we know what the differences are with the candidates, but we've got to be for something. what i'm for is doing another billion-dollar tax rebate, for doing property tax rebates to run rural broadband like we had been doing. we started this program long before the pandemic hit. doing economic developing projects where 74% of the investment of over $30 billion

over the last two years is going to rural georgia. over half the 80,000 jobs going with those projects outside the 10 metro counties in rural georgia and i'm committed to doing that in the future. donna: mr. hazel, if you would like to have 30 seconds, you may. mr. hazel: the state of georgia needs a governor who understands econ. the $200 trillion of unfunded liability in this country as a veteran, understanding we have a veterans health care system that is in shambles. they treat you as a liability and will throw pills at you every chance he they get and won't actually address your health. there's no way on earth we are going to expand that to the rest of the 99% of the country. it is a fairytale and it does not exist. that's why the economy is collapsing because they continue to print trillions and trillions of dollars and hike interest rates at the same time. donna: jennifer bellamy, your turn to ask a question. >> this is for each of you -- what do you see as the biggest

challenge facing georgia and georgians and how do you think it should be addressed and what will you do as governor to address that challenge? donna: let's start with you, stacey abrams. ms. abrams: gang crime is up, gun violence is up, housing prices have skyrocketed, equity investors have purchased 30% of the homes in the state of georgia. we have 1.4 million people without health insurance who cannot see a doctor when they need one. we live in a state of fear and this is a governor who for the last four years has beat his chest but delivered very little for most georgians. he has weakened gun laws and flooded our streets, he has weakened our privacy rights and women's rights. he has denied women's access to reproductive care. the most dangerous thing facing georgia is four more years of brian kemp. we need a governor who understands the math and the morality. we need to understand that we have veterans like mr. hazel pointed out who cannot get access to health care in part because they are not fully covered by v.a. benefits and

will only get health insurance if we expand medicaid. we have seniors who will be forced out of their homes because this governor refuses to address the issue of housing crises. he told an audience he did not want to upset investors by giving local authorities control over housing prices, letting them address the issues. we need a governor who will work for georgians. donna: i want to give each of them a chance to answer jennifer's question. mr. hazel. mr. hazel: the biggest problem facing us is the economy, but to quote, the man who puts all the guns and decision-making power into the hands of a central government and then says limit yourself is he truly the impractical utopian. the idea the economy isn't the biggest problem we have in georgia is because people don't understand economics. these guys don't understand economics from republicans or democrats or we would not be in the hole we are in in terms of trillions and trillions of dollars.

what we need to do is get back to basics. austrian economics where we get rid of this cancer invaded every transaction that we have through a fiat currency system. creating freedom for everybody in georgia is the default position. not more government, not more programs and policies, not more point at the barrel of a gun force and coercion. it is freedom. donna: brian kemp, your answer to the question. gov. kemp: since i did not get a rebuttal after being called out, would just let georgians know again, my record is being attacked because ms. abrams does not want to talk about her own record. if you look at what the state of georgia and our first lady marty kemp has done to raise awareness on human trafficking, going after the perpetrators and supporting the victims as well as us working with the general assembly to get medicaid benefits to birthing mothers up to a year after having that child and other things shows you

that we value life and care. but in the future, my focus is going to be what it was when i opened the debate and that is helping you fight through 40 are -- year high inflation and disastrous policies in washington, d.c. i will remind you that stacey abrams campaign to be joe biden's running mate. she supports these policies that have raised taxes on hard-working americans and georgians when they promised they would not. we are working with the assembly to fight that by suspending the gas tax and getting your money back in your pocket. donna: thank you very much. greg your next question. >> governor, i want to talk about something that came up in the last exchange. earlier today, you rolled out a new public safety plan that offers a crackdown on criminal offenses but doesn't address gun violence. your critics say your permissive gun policies will only lead to more crime. what do you propose you will do in a second term if you are elected to address gun related crimes? gov. kemp: we are going after the people doing these gun related crimes.

that's what we are doing going after street gangs in this regard. during the pandemic, when i was talking to people about what we were dealing with, i was hearing from educators and athletic directors and other people saying we've got to get our kids back in the classroom because we are losing them. we are going to lose a decade of children because these kids we are recruiting when they are 13, 14 and 15 years old to be on the ball field or band or robotics team or what have you extracurricular activity, they are being recruited by street gangs because they are not in the classroom. those are the kinds of things we are focused on to make sure these kids are in the right environment. my new public safety plan is stiffening penalties for gang members recruiting our children and i believe most georgians support that and i'm committed to working with all law enforcement to make a dent there.

donna: thank you. chuck williams. >> this is for governor kemp and ms. abrams. columbus, macon, atlanta and other communities have benefited from a georgia state patrol task force that has helped augment police coverage in those cities and some others over the last year. what can be done to make sure local agencies, agencies that are short on officers, can handle these policing duties without having to rely on the state? donna: we last mr. kemp first. gov. kemp: i'm glad to answer that question. the crime suppression unit i asked the colonel to put together when i grew tired of local elected political leaders that would not let their local law enforcement go after dangerous people during civil unrest that had no chase policies, where street racers

and street gangs were terrorizing our citizens, i told him i wanted a plan, i wanted to know how much it's going to cost, and i want to know he we are going to work with. it's why the state patrol, the department of natural resources, game wardens, the atlanta police -- the fulton county jail system and the atlanta police department, we put a plan together to go after street racers and after violent criminals and have more boots on the ground. we've done the same thing in columbus, we've done it in macon, we've done in savannah and we will do it where it is needed. we are using funds from the governor's emergency fund to help pay for these dollars and thankfully, the general assembly supports that because we've been in the fight when others were not. donna: thank you. ms. abrams. ms. abrams: street gangs did not shoot six asian women going into a gun store and murdering women in less than an hour. street gangs are not the reason people are getting shot in grocery stores and parking lots and at schools. street gangs are one part of the problem but we have a governor who has weakened gun laws across the state and flooded streets

with guns by letting dangerous people get access to those weapons. georgia does not have a waiting period. georgia does not have universal background checks and one of the few permits we have that stopped 5000 people that should not have weapons from getting them got weakened by this law. as the next governor, my intention would be to get that people who do 90% of law enforcement the support they need. we know have asked for at least $136 million to recruit and retain officers. i'm the only candidate who has put in place a plan for $25 million in grants, not loans, to go to these local law enforcement officer so they can recruit and retain officers so their officers are not working two or three jobs to making ends meet. donna: thank you. before rebuttal, governor kemp, shane hazel, you can respond to that question. mr. hazel: you keep going back to guns and i think it's going to be your undoing in georgia. we are going to have less and less gun laws whether it's under republicans or libertarians. libertarians don't believe in

any gun laws. we believe you know how to best protect you and your property. the biggest mass murder is government, not private citizens. most private citizens go through their day without doing harm to anybody but people in government with all the guns still go after people with the batch when they -- with a badge when they shouldn't have to. in holly springs, georgia, i introduced the helio's initiative, a one page bill from decentralization using the constitution made the officers in holly springs safer because they don't have to go out there and do not have to harass people of color while driving while black. they don't have to go out there and look for drugs, they don't have to do any of these things because civil asset forfeiture is also the government stealing more than hardened criminals from anybody and everybody in the state of georgia. donna: thank you. governor kemp, 30 seconds. gov. kemp: i would let people at home know the largest, fastest

growing segment of the population buying handguns and firearms is african-americans and females. you know why? because the criminals are the only ones that do have the guns. you have local governments holding up concealed weapon permits keeping law-abiding citizens from being able to simply use their second amended right to protect themselves and their property and their families. i would certainly support that. donna: mr. hazel, you have 30 seconds. ms. abrams: may i respond. donna: yes. ms. abrams: let's be clear. i believe we can protect the second amendment and protect second graders at the same time. that means more people are buying guns, that's because they think it's the only way to protect themselves because guns have flooded our streets. these are communities that want to be safe. they don't want to have to carry weapons. i know how to shoot. my great-grandmother taught me. but i know that the person who's most responsible is the person who holds the weapon and that's why i will quote ronald reagan -- trust but verify. because of the criminal carry

law brian kemp signed into law, there's no longer a background check for those who have concealed carry permits. that makes all of us less safe. donna: we really want to move on. 30 seconds. gov. kemp: there is a federal background check on every individual that buys a firearm in the united states of america. mr. hazel: which shouldn't exist either. ms. abrams: that's not true. that's not true. gov. kemp: i understand the point you are making but when you buy a firearm, you get a background check. donna: -- ms. abrams: mr. kemp. mr. kemp if you purchase weapon through private sale. donna: we are going to have to move on. i'm going to allow jennifer to ask the final question of this round. >> a study showed frustration with teachers with issues like

covid-19 and critical race theory presenting additional challenges in a profession that is still with low pay, slowing interest and people leaving. what would you do specifically as governor to recruit, retain and empower educators in schools across the state of georgia. for each of you. donna: we will start with you ms. abrams. ms. abrams: let me apologize to mr. kemp for interrupting. it is a very important topic to me and i apologize for my outburst. we have a 67% retention in 70% of teachers said they would not recommend teaching to their colleagues. that's because of low pay, because of overregulation, high stress and they believe they are being told to teach to a curriculum that does not reflect the values and needs of our students. when a teacher is told you have to lie to a child, which is what happened with the divisive language, divisive concept legislation, teachers are not able to teach the whole history

of our students. they are not able to tell their children what they need to know. as the next governor of georgia, i will repeal those laws, i will increase pay and make certain all of our teachers can start and continue through their time, well-paid and well protected and well supported. donna: unfortunately we are running out of time. only 45 seconds. brian kemp. gov. kemp: this is exactly why i did the $5,000 teacher pay raise i ran on in 2018. we have also done a parents bill of rights to have parents fully engage with their schools so they know what is happening with their kids. quite honestly, people are tired of their kids being indoctrinated in the classroom. but we've worked with our educators on these pieces of legislation to make sure they make good common sense. i would also tell you people are tired of these issues like not having fairness in girls sports and other things and quite honestly, it has woken a lot of people up. we have to continue to have good conversations like we've done with our teacher pipeline

legislation, like we are doing with helping 9000 people get fully certified to be in the classroom. donna: thank you very much. shane hazel, you get 45 seconds. mr. hazel: your question raises a lot of interesting points. a lot of these teachers like my own wife have left the profession of teaching to homeschool, to go to private school, to do something outside of this narrative where admin from the state government to the federal government is forcing them to teach things they don't want to teach. they can't stand the administrator that makes six figures. it's bloated and has gotten out of control. we need to nullify property tax and let people get out of the system. we need to allow the private sector to work because before education was put under the thumb of government here, we had some of the brightest, most well read people in the entire world and that's what we need to bring back. donna: thank you very much. we are running out of time. that's all the time we have for questions. each candidate will now have

only 40 seconds for a closing statement. brian kemp, you get the first closing statement. gov. kemp: first of all, let me thank the atlanta press club. when i ran in 2018, i promise to put hard-working georgians ahead of the status quo and politically correct. i said i would work hard as your governor every single day for all georgians, whether you voted for me or not. i'm so optimistic about the future of our state. the lowest unemployment rate in the history of the state, the most people working and economic opportunity in all parts of our state no matter your zip code or neighborhood. stacey abrams says georgia is the worst state in the country to live in. marty, the girls and i disagree. we think georgia is the greatest day in the country to live, work and raise our children. that's why i'm asking for your vote and support to keep it that way. thank you and god bless. donna: stacey abrams, 40 seconds. ms. abrams: i to thank everyone for your support. brian kemp did make promises.

he promised to keep us safe and crime went up. he promised protect us and yet he has attacked our freedoms. he's promised to take care of our families and yet the rising prices in georgia are rising because he refuses to expand medicaid, he refuses to tackle the affordable housing crisis. he's sitting on $400 million of our money that he will not spend to keep us under rooms and in homes. -- roofs and in homes. as the next governor, i want to have more, more money, more protection in our lives, more freedoms in our days and more opportunity in our communities. i see all of georgia and as the next governor, it is my intention to serve all of you. i encourage you to go to my website staceyabrams.com and know that i am asking for your vote tonight. donna: shane hazel, you get the final 40 second closing statement. mr. hazel: we are in changing times. technology, money, politics are all changing incredibly fast. as humans, our superpower is our ability to adapt to a changing world. this power to adapt our passion and genius is unleashed when it

is free. free from tax, free from government, free from lockdowns, free from government mandates and free from force and coercion. you know best how to adapt and run your life and it is your right to do so. it is time peaceful people are free to take on the challenges we face. our message to the government is simple. it's time to leave peaceful people alone. donna: that concludes our debate. we would like to remind voters that election day is tuesday, november 8 and early voting has already begun. thanks to the candidates and our panel of journalists and the atlanta press club. for more information about the debates they will host this election season, visit atlantapressclub.org/debates. thank you for joining us for the atlanta press club debate. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its

caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> c-span's her unfiltered view of government. we are funded by the television companies and more including nick go. ♪ giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> thieving, we begin with live coverage of the oklahoma governor's debate. republican incom but kevin stitt and demrac challenger hofmeister meet.

th a 7:30, new jsey representative tom malinowski and his challenger tom kane meet in a race forheeventh congressional district posted by the new jersey globe. at 8:35, isla governor kim reynolds and democratic challenger meet in a debate by iowa pbs's iowa press. watch our coverage beginning at 6:30 eastern on c-span or online at c-span.org. middle and high school students, it is your time to shine. you are invited to participate in this year's documentary competition. picture yourself as a newly elected member of congress. we ask this year's competitors what is your top priority and why. make a five to six minute video that shows the importance of your issue from posing and

supporting perspectives. not be afraid to take risks. be bold. amongst the 100,000 dollars in cash prizes is a $5,000 grand prize. videos must be submitted by january 20, 2023. visit our website at studentcam.org for competition rules, resources and a step-by-step guide. >> utah republican senator mike lee is seeking a third term this november against independent challenger evan mcmullen. mr. mcmillan is known for running as an independent candidate in the 2016 presidential election where he received 21% of the vote in the state of utah. this debate between he and senator lee is currently the only one scheduled to occur before the midterm elections.