, representative joints punch bowl news founder and ceo anna palmer for a conversation about the importance of privacy and security in technology. live coverage begins at 12: p.m. -- at 12:00 p.m. eastern. >> coming up on "washington journal" your calls and comments on the news of the day. at 8:00 eastern, william reinhart. he talks about economic abundance ended by mental stewardship. then barbara perry on the history of former presidents running for nonconsecutive terms. "washington journal" is next. ♪ host: it is monday, november 21,

2022. there are still 715 days to go until election 2024 by the presidential jockeying is underway. potential gop presidential can vendors made their way to las vegas for an annual meeting of republican jewish leaders. ron desantis received top billing to address that meeting. this morning, we are getting your thoughts on ron desantis as a possible presidential candidate. we want to know if you think you should run in 2024. photo blinds by political party. -- phone lines by political party. democrats can call in at (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, independents, (202) 748-8002 and a special line for florida residents, (202) 748-8003. that is also the number if you want to send us a text.

otherwise catch up with us on scioscia media at @cspanwj or facebook.com/c-span. you can start calling you now. here is how the wall street journal described ron desantis's appearance at that meeting. they right no one generated more excitement than the florida governor who had a primetime speaking spot saturday night and walked onto the stage to a unmatched at others at that meeting. here is ron desantis on saturday. >> what we have shown his people respond to strong leadership. if you look at our election results, we had the biggest election margin that any governor has had in the history of the state of florida. if you look at who we were winning, we were winning across the board. you do not get that type of

victory only getting republicans. we had a great republican turnout. we also decisively won the middle. we won more democrats than any governor has done for a long time. we are winning people regardless of the boxes the media wants to put people in. we treat people as individuals and they responded. you can be strong and to get things done and you can attract a huge coalition because most people realize there is a lot that has gone wrong in our country, particularly over the last two years. florida is showing a way out of this mess. you have to be willing to do it and you have to be successful in implementing it. at times like these, there is no substitute for victory. we in florida are the light. freedom will reign supreme with florida leading the way.

i want to thank each and everyone of you for your support. we have accomplished more than anybody thought possible. we have a lot more to do and i have only begun to fight. thank you. god bless you. thank you so much. host: florida governor ron desantis on saturday evening in las vegas. here is more from the wall street journal wrapping up that meeting of the republican jewish coalition. they right it was former president trump who addressed the crowd of 850 saturday afternoon via satellite. he received a standing ovation. they right that the venetian resort served as the first platform for others to capitalize on appetite for someone else. they included mike pence, mike pompeo, chris christie, new hampshire governor chris sununu, and former south carolina governor nikki haley.

ron desantis appearing as well. one other headline wrapping up that event, we will show you more from it throughout this segment. this from the washington post. gop 2024 hopefuls chart path against and around trump and eagerness to take on the former president is clear at that las vegas gathering. asking you, should ron desantis run for president in 2024? phone lines as usual, democrats (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, independents (202) 748-8002, and we especially want to hear from florida residents after the governor was reelected earlier this month. reelected by 1.5 billion votes. -- 1.5 million votes. the number for florida (202) 748-8003.

we begin on the republican line. rory in california. up very early. caller: i think desantis should run better as vice president and trump as president. so if they try to impeach trump they will get desantis. that way you will have a republican for up to 12 years. four with trump and ate with desantis. the conservatives will finally be able to drill and american soil for american oil and we will dump the 2035 electric car bit. host: you think these are two politicians who would want to run on the same ticket caller:? they probably do not like each other because they are too equal. they are too determined. trump is about ready to retire. desantis would be a younger man and the democrats would fear

desantis more because he is younger and more determined than trump. i am looking at 12 years of republican rule. host: that is rory in california. our independent line. this is still in jackson, mississippi. good morning. caller: i hate to be negative, but at the end of the day florida is not going in the right direction. it only appears that way. a lot of people assume looking at elections that things are correct. florida is not going in the right direction. i just moved out of their because of the election -- i just moved out of there because of the election of the guy you mentioned. i would rather not be negative. host: you left the state because

ron desantis was reelected? caller:charlie crist was a fine. this guy is a dictator. i do not want to be negative. host: what you disagree with and what he has done in florida? caller: first of all, he talks about it a freedom state. he does not even teach certain courses or describe yourself and identify yourself. it is harnessing what he does not like or his backers like and then acting as if everything is all right. if you tell a lie long enough people believe it. in this case it is happening. host: that is phil in

jackson, mississippi. with a nod to 1984, judge blocks florida's anti-woke law in colleges. that law designed to limit the discussion of racism and privilege in schools and workforce training. in an order issued on thursday a tallahassee judge blocked the bill from taking effect at the state public universities. "the state of florida's decision to choose which viewpoints are worthy of illumination and which must remain in the shadows has implications for all of us. the first amendment does not permit the state of florida to muzzle its university professors and cast us all into the dark. " the legislation called the stop woke act. that happened on thursday.

karen in alabama. what are your thoughts on ron desantis running for president? caller: ron desantis is great. i think he has done a great job for florida. i do not think it is his time yet. i do not like that trump has been a couple of negative comments about him because we are all on the same team. if we want republicans to win the presidency we have to be together. it is not ron desantis's time. i do not think you should be vice president. hopefully trump comes back in 2024 and that desantis can run after that. i do not understand why the deep state hates trump so much. it seems like they would take ron desantis in a minute yet he has the same policies as trump. host: joe biden turns 80 over

the weekend. the story from the washington post, biden joins the ranks of the still working octogenarian's. former president trump would be 78 if reelected if he runs and is reelected. is 78 too old to be president? caller: i don't think so. i saw your show yesterday where you talked about should there be a term limit for the president, an age limit. i don't think so. people age differently. joe biden looks like he is 90. i am sorry. trump looks like he is not that old. i do not think so. maybe they need to do cognitive tests. trump seems like a young 76 right now. i think he would be fine. host: j is in delaware.

line for democrats. caller: ron desantis should not run for president for the very reason he just gave us that people respond to a strong leader. that is why he got such a good voting count. strong leader is often defined as a dictator. this man is not the governor of everybody. he is trying to force everyone into the mold he thinks is correct and he will do so on a grand scale if he is president. please find someone in the middle. the point of democracy is to work with everyone. it is not to stuff your views down everyone's throat and to stop other people from talking about what they think. this is a terrible direction for our country and florida is not doing well in that sense. host: is joe biden someone in the middle?

caller: he is more in the middle than desantis or trump and he can be worked with. he will make concessions to a different point of view. that is what people want. when you hear strong leader and the followers, that is dangerous. can't people see what is happening? i do not want to vote for joe, i want them to find a different person, but if it is between desantis and joe, trump and joe, no. they are not in the middle. they only want what they want. they are not willing to make compromises. that is frightening and he should not be allowed to be president. host: steve, a republican, charleston, south carolina. good morning. caller: good morning. by the way, i'm going to tell you i am celebrating the birth of a new grandson so i'm

enjoying his company. host: congratulations. what is his name? caller: i like ron desantis. trump will never unify people. if he gets in it will be more division and he contributes to that. ron desantis is kind of right. he said something after the election, we are going through the same thing in south carolina. people are flocking here from new england and we have this fear they are to flip us to blue and evidently in florida what happened -- it is hard to prove people came and said we want what you have and went more red, is kind of strange. if you look at it with industry and tourism, it is kind of a microcosm of the country. i think he can unify people. i would like to see my ex

governor nikki haley on the ticket with him. can i say something about the red wave that was expected? people made a big deal out of it. i did not think there is going to be a red wave. i'm always tall -- i'm always toward whether to call in on the independent line or the republican line. i am 75 years old. i used to vote for fred collins because he was great for south carolina and i like him, he was a good senator. i think people tend to vote for representatives in the house and senators for people who they think might help their state and all of the constituents better. people are closet voters. they will not tell their friends at parties. if i was in tennessee i think i would vote for steve cogan, i really like him.

i think that affected the red wave. for national implications, they do not seem to care, they vote for what is best for my state. host: do truck the polls anymore? caller: i don't trust those balls. i just don't -- i don't trust those polls. i quick trusting those decades ago. i remember joe biden in the senate and i remember the days of to pony up when people work together better cash of t -- i remember the days of tip o neil. i think vietnam divided the country to the point where they never got back together. i like ron desantis. host: congratulations again on the new grandbaby. caller: ron desantis is a great governor. i am confused because he is

basically trump but in florida. he did have a son and a make america great again onesie in his crib and read him a bedtime story about building a wall. i am confused because the mainstream media was attacking the man for being an idiot and now he is the darling of the media? i am sorry. first of all we need to get our election fraud straightened out, we need to get the people who are in washington to enrich themselves, the bidens, the clintons, mitt romney, the paul ryan's, we need to get the people filtered through the legal system because they do have legal implications. the hunter laptop, which i think is a lot more to do with world events than people want to admit. it will drizzle out.

i like ron. i do not think he said anything about the president. i think they're playing them off to see what comes of it. watching people declaring loyalty when there is no battle to be fought yet. we are trying to count votes in arizona. why is it that we take weeks to count votes? host: when you are talking about the baby in the onesie you are afraid to that ron desantis add when he was running for governor in 2018? caller: yes. host: i have that. i will play for viewers to see what you are talking about. >> everyone knows my husband ron desantis is endorsed by president trump. ron loves playing with the kids. he read stories. >> then mr. trump says you are fired. i love that part.

>> p teaching madison to talk. >> some say ron is all trump, but he is so much more. host: that and from 2018, when ron desantis was running for governor. winning reelection to another four year in florida. amy is in florida. what are your thoughts about your governor running for president? caller: i would not want him to be president at all. for a couple of reasons. first of all, ron desantis is very authoritarian. already during his tenure federal judges have had to block more than a few unconstitutional laws he tried to pass in the

state. he read about one recently where the governor tried to force university professors to profess their political leanings. then there was another law that was also blocked, i guess and antiriot law, which essentially made a new crime called mob intimidation, in which people would be held without due process in jail if they got scooped up at a protest. that was also blocked by a judge . not only that. everybody thinks florida is great. florida is one of the last states in education. our teachers are the lowest paid. our police officers are the lowest paid.

he has been giving raises lately to these workers, these government workers. the social safety net in florida is terrible. not being able to apply for government assistance is very difficult. thankfully i have never had to on things like that. if you are your -- if you are poor or in need, you will not do well in florida. it is a feature, it is not a flaw. host: that is amy in florida. we will stay in florida. this is nick. caller: thoughts on your governor potentially running for president. i do not want governor desantis to run. he is a great governor. all of these people: from

florida, the lady from florida, the guy from delaware, if you cannot succeed in florida you are just a loser. that is it. you are a loser. go to los angeles, go to chicago, deal with the crime, deal with the drugs, deal with the illegals. i am a floridian. i no longer consider myself an american. i do not want to santos to run. i do not even want trump to run. i concern myself with florida. the rest of america can burn in hell for all i care host: host:. all right -- for all i care. host: all right. frank, republican. caller: i am a former elected official. i won 12 elections. i think ron desantis should stay as governor for his full term.

i think it is a ploy by the media to get him into the race, divide the republican party. even the establishment wants to keep the status quo of the republican party. it will be wrong. it will be a bitter battle. trump is definitely in for the long haul. he has had so much success and you know his policies have worked. you know he has had to fight against the media all these years. he never got a fair shake. i think desantis owes this to trump. there is such a thing as loyalty. it is very important in our religion come in our affairs of community to be loyal to someone who helped you out. he will have his chance. it is a deliberate ploy, very sumer to what happened with cuomo and koch.

koch ran in a primary with cuomo and the people love to be new york and they kept him. more importantly, this is a deliberate attempt to divide republicans or democrats can stay in power. thank you so much and happy thanksgiving. host: what office did you serve in? caller: i was a town councilman, supervisor, and deputy county executive in putnam county, new york. i know from what -- i have seen a lot locally and it is a microcosm of what is going on at the federal level. everybody is trying to make some points, but trump has been successful and so has his policies. let desantis take good care of florida, which he has been doing. he will have trump's help in

2028, i am sure. host: that is frank in new york. happy thanksgiving to you as well. crystal in west palm beach florida, democrat, go ahead. caller: good morning. i do not believe the gentleman should run for president. more importantly, if people want to know who ron desantis is, they should go back to the debate between desantis and at that time there is a lot of truth in just who he is. in terms of the gentleman that call from mississippi that said he believes florida is going in the wrong direction, i agree with that. i think there is a lot of manipulation in terms of media and messaging and who ron desantis backers are.

also i would to say really quick that ron desantis won by .2% in the campaign against gillam, and with the recount, the results were under seal. i wonder if there is some truth to what trump mentioned when he said desantis owes him and he sent his authorities into broward county to stop the voting as it was going on so that desantis had won. host: you think the governor's election was stolen in 2018? caller: go back and look at it. .2% and the judge had the results under seal. that is the margin.

i want to add desantis seems to be very authoritarian. there are voter police that he created. he did some type of anti-boycotting law where pedestrians would be able to use their cars -- that is authoritarian. in northern florida the health department what an to accurately reflect the number of deaths from covid in florida, she donley was fired but she came under fire. it is a very authoritarian regime. host: asking you your thoughts on ron desantis as a potential presidential candidate. this is from the conservative

website townhall.com. making the case for ron desantis. he has also written columns about the case for donald trump. this is what he writes in the case for ron desantis. "ron desantis is trump's number one competitor because of his greatest strength, competence. not just competence in running his state, but interning at bright red. competence is going to be the watchword in 2024 along with normality." he goes on to write "competence goes with normality. it is the ability to perform one's job with a high level of skill. his state is secure and prosperous. his handling of hurricane ian was stellar. the response was executed so flawlessly that once the wind died down you never heard about it again.

what you did not hear is how the power came back on fast and the bridges were rebuilt in days. you would've heard all about it if those things do not happen." from townhall.com. this is more from ron desantis at the republican jewish coalition meeting in las vegas on saturday talking about that hurricane. >> we had a major hurricane come through in september, hurricane ian. we had 42,000 lineman station before landfall to help restore power. billions of people had power knocked out and it was the fastest power restoration after a major hurricane in florida history. we had search-and-rescue launched immediately. thousands of rescue missions within a matter of days. one of the things that happened was the storm knocked out a bridge going to an island called pine island and it knocked out the causeway in sanibel. these are not state bridges, but

they came to me and said can you help and i said we are going to help. we look at the bridge and we said what are our options? no redtape, no bureaucracy, get it done. we undertook the mission. three days later we reconnected the bridge and opened it back to pine island. if you think some of these other states that are always bobs down in bureaucracy and red state -- and redtape would've been able to get that bridge up and running in three days, i have oceanfront property in arizona i would like to sell you. please talk to me. if you look at what happened on election week, the day before the election, i had to declare a state of emergency because we had a hurricane approaching florida, which became hurricane nicole. we declared the state of emergency. local county start to prepare for impact. we conduct the election the next day on the tuesday, count 7.7

million votes, report the results out. wednesday i am in the emergency operations center. the storm comes wednesday night and thursday morning. we have a coastal highway that was knocked out in three different counties. we send emergency crews to do emergency repairs. by saturday afternoon all the roads had been repaired. a lot of these states still haven't finished counting their votes from the elections. what kind of a system is that? we know how many people have voted when the polls close, we know how many boats are outstanding. you count the votes, you report the results, then you move on. you do not take a week to count. you do not have dumps coming in where you do not know where the votes came from. look where florida does.

we have made ballot harvesting a third-degree felony. we have an elections crime unit so that if you are voting illegally you will be prosecuted and people have been brought up on charges who voted and were not even american citizens. that is the things you need to do. i hope some of these other people get with the program. if they have ballot harvesting, then republicans need to do this, you cannot just let them do it and sit there with hands tied behind our backs. whatever the rules are, take advantage of that. host: florida governor ron desantis at that meeting in las vegas. if you want to watch that meeting, the republican jewish coalition, several potential presidential contenders. former president donald trump, he has announced his candidacy. you can watch the entire event on our website at c-span.org.

we are asking you whether ron desantis should run in 2024. that election about 715 days away from now. here are your comments from social media. this is seth in texas. i am independent swing voter and i think ron desantis would be a great presidential candidate. even though he seems to have similar beliefs to trump he is sharper and more morally sound. another saying desantis runs on extremism so he will have to pretend to be moderate to win big parts of the u.s. pat in california, ron desantis should honor his commitment as governor of florida and run for president in 2028. one more, great in ohio. desantis has an unfavorable track record on schools, teachers, and mandates.

just because he is popular in florida is meaningless. comments asking you to write in on social media. phone lines, democrats (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, and independents (202) 748-8002. a special line for florida residents. (202) 748-8003. factor that line. cindy in florida. caller: good morning. i am a florida native and 65 years. i have never seen our florida being destroyed as much as it is now. 90,000 people cross that border every day and most of them are republicans. desantis refuses to discuss the statistics of the amount of republicans that have crossed that border since he has been in

office. our farmlands are disappearing, our wetlands are disappearing. he does nothing about the environment. i live in the most dense county in florida. the traffic is horrific. everything's keep getting built and built. it started with the community planning act of 2011 under rick scott. host: you think too many people are trying to move to florida? caller: yes. they are. development keeps going and we have facebook groups that keep complaining about the amount of people coming in and our lands being destroyed, the environment is being destroyed. wildlife is being killed, our wildlife corridor or is in

danger. the florida panthers are in danger. manatees are in danger. everything is in danger and it never gets topped about. we have overpopulation and overdevelopment. our checks and balances for florida were destroyed under the community planning act of 2011. host: cindy in florida. to louisiana. this is anthony. republican. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you doing? host: doing well. caller: i think desantis should run. he seems like an honest man and he has answers to all of the questions. i like a politician that can answer the questions. i did not like a politician that turns his back. trump, i don't know. trump can run but i think

desantis would be a better selection. i am in louisiana. we have hurricanes just like them. we just went through ida. the government took care of us. there comes an age where a man should retire like biden. i am sure biden is a good man. anybody that shows up for work is a good man. i was in the oil field for 35 years. i do not agree with the policies of shutting down the oil fields. you have to slowly go into things. when the oil is deep you do not just jump in, you wade in. i was in the oil field for 35 years. my electric bill has to be at least 40% more now. the price of everything is jumping up.

somebody has to jump in there and take control. to me things just aren't right, you know? host: that is anthony in louisiana. back to florida. this is edward. independent. caller: greetings from the free state of florida. i do not think governor desantis should run for president. he is doing it slip a job in florida. he is of -- he is doing an excellent job in florida. he is a family man, he is a christian man, and he is a veteran. if i did not watch news programs on television, i would not know how bad the country is. we are not concerned about crime . governor desantis has a surplus as far as the budget. when i drive down our roads they are all in great condition.

i live in a retirement community. everyone is civil. we are not concerned about crime. we have a great life in florida. my wife is involved in bowling. we have a great life. for those people that are concerned about crime, come to florida, come to the free state of florida and god bless ron desantis. thank you. host: more on this discussion on 2024 and the gop nomination from the conservative editorial pages of the washington times. "republicans should welcome a competitive primary." everett piper a colles in his piece that he twice voted for donald trump and thas him for his time. he writes "it could be argued mr. trump is unelectable and

several subsequent polls have proven it. last week survey of republican voters indicates in a race between mr. trump and ron desantis mr. desantis beats mr. trump in crucial primary states, more specifically mr. desantis outperforms mr. trump by 11% in iowa, 15% in new hampshire, 26% in florida. " another survey reported by the daily wire indicates that if the republican primary were held today mr. desantis would be president trump. last week's exit polls showed mr. trump is viewed as less favorable nationwide than president biden at 33% to 36%. of all of the potential 2024 republican challengers to the white house, the only one with higher favorability the mr. biden is florida governor ron desantis. everett piper wrapping up that poland in his column in the

washington times. this is cornell in a new jersey. democrat. thanks for waiting. caller: good morning. i do not feel ron desantis would be good for the country. he might be good for florida, but he is not good for the country. one that talks about states rights. he will still take a bus load of immigrants and drop them off into democratic cities without any notice. people calling up and saying he would unite the country. he would divide the country even more than trump could ever because he is way more dangerous than trump because trump is basically an entertainer. desantis is an elected official who i feel is very dangerous,

and some of the things he said, i was watching him on one of the shows, he had children behind him. one of the children had his mask on. the way he looked at that child and that child to take that mask off, he is scary. he could be good for florida. for america? what america really is, a melting pot? no way. he is way worse than trump could ever be. host: cornell in new jersey. this is michael. republican. good morning. caller: before i start that pole you just read was just leftist garbage and that is how the media gets away with dividing the republican party, like

they're purposely trying to do with your question. fox news is doing it, cnn, abc, you are all working to slander donald trump. ron desantis will not run in 2024. you know that. donald trump will be president in 2024. joe biden will go to prison. his son will go to prison. his brother will go to prison. his sister will go to prison. one question. i am confused why it so matters to people in the media. whoever we pick, you will call them a white supremacist. host: on the polling issue you take issue with, everett piper who writes that column that you were just referring to take some that issue, that if you have a problem with the polls he says if that is a reaction i want to remind you it was donald trump the week before the midterms

counted his favorable polls as one of his pretext for announcing. caller: i will bet you right now . i call this show at least once every other month. i bet you anything you want just give years donald trump gets at least 90 million votes. you know will be the kicker? that means joe biden will get 91 million votes because the fbi selects who is president these days. if you do not know that by now from all of the news media and the emails and everything else now the americans have taken back the house, you will see it, and you know it. you are terrified. this russia pollution crab, this hunter biden crap. i am praying when donald trump is reelected he has every single one of you that colluded with

the fbi to rape the 2020 election arrested. -- to rig the 2020 election arrested. caller: good morning c-span. good morning. i want to say donald trump is going to look good with that orange hair and that orange jumpsuit. let me get to my point. any politician who talks like he has a chip on his shoulder and talks in a fast cadence, you have to watch him. the rest of america cannot bail florida out every time there is a hurricane or something like that and their buildings are falling down. these pythons are eating people.

wild animals are running wild. the opioids took off. people from all over the world were going to florida to get the opioids. that is where the opioids started. ron desantis is a trump-lite. he is something else. he is another creation. he should not run for president. he should just deal with his government. i know they do not pay taxes down there. they think it is different. republicans are rushing down there to live. they need to take care of their self and pull their self up by their bootstraps and deal with florida, not the rest of the world. host: a couple of callers from florida using the term the free state of florida. that was a term ron desantis also used at that address from

las vegas at the republican jewish coalition meeting on saturday. here is more from his statements on saturday night. >> one of the reasons why florida has done well is because over the last few years we stood out as the free state of florida. we refused to let the state of florida to send into some type of faucian dystopia where people's freedoms were curtailed in their livelihoods were destroyed. we believed in lifting people up. we believed in protecting rights. of saving thousands and thousands of jobs, saving businesses and making sure the kids could go to school. every decision we made on that we were attacked by corporate media in florida. throughout the world we were attacked by the left, attacked by the democratic party. the job of a leader is to take the arrows so his people do not

have to. i always said throughout all of that, i am much more worried about protecting the jobs of the people i represent that i am worried about saving my own. let the politics sort itself out. i am fine with receiving this incoming fire because i'm standing for the people i represent and i am saving their jobs, their businesses, and their kids education. that is the most important thing to do. we attracted people from all over the country and all over the world. we were a refuge of sanity when the world went mad. we were a nation citadel of freedom. we had people come from other countries wanting to come to florida when they left restrictive jurisdictions. they felt like it was arriving in west berlin from east berlin. it was that dramatic. we were happy to have done that. we banned vaccine passports in florida.

we refused to let anybody lose their jobs over a decision to take a covid shot and we passed legislation to protect. we also prohibited any mandates for covid shots on schoolchildren. that is a parent's decision. it cannot be mandated. we had to make decisions. others had to make decisions. the state of florida chose freedom over faucism and we are better off having done that. host: florida governor ron desantis. asking you this morning if you should run for president. phone lines for democrats, republicans, independents, and a special line for florida residents. (202) 748-8003 is that line. all the way down to key west, florida. diane, democrat. caller: i think the reason why

ron desantis might have done so well in florida is because of the gerrymandering. before the election the republicans and the democrats in florida agreed on the redistricting. ron came in and said he did not like it but he decided himself what the districting would be and it favored him tremendously. host: it was a statewide election for governor. the district does not matter for the gubernatorial election. it was all the votes in the state. caller: say that again. host: it was a statewide election in florida. everybody votes. caller: you are correct. i am just sharing his actions that i do not like, which was kind of like a dictatorship. if you let me make two more points.

there was a big issue in key west because of the environment. we are protecting the reef. cruise ships destroyed the reef. finally we had done referendums where the people voted, should we have the -- these dirty cruise ships? three agenda items past. there was a fellow who owns one of the peers. he made a million dollar donation to ron desantis campaign. it is called a campaign donation but it turns out to be in essence a bribe. the people voted to keep those big dirty cruise ships out of our ports and it was overturned. it was overturned and we have no control over this pier. the big cruise ships continue to come in and pollute the reef.

also the housing. we used to have safeguards for local housing. people who live and work in the keys. you had to have so many percentage residential, so many percentage to tourism. ron says you buy a house, you can do whatever you want with it. right now there is more housing for tourism, there's not enough housing for the people who live and work here. the rents are sky high and the medical suffers, there are not enough doctors, there are not enough teachers, there is not enough for community to survive. you have to control the tourism. it is great to have tourism, but all of the housing goes for the tourist. we have a governor who constantly separates the republicans and the democrats. we are human beings. trump and desantis, these politicians who continue to

separate the republicans on the democrats, i wish we would have someone who could bring us together. host: that is diane lane key west. this is liz in sonoma park, florida. caller: good morning. i do not want desantis to run for governor. i am really worked up right now by everything i am hearing. i had it all sorted out. ron desantis should not think about it. florida is not free by any standard, unless you happen to live in a retirement community and you have all of your money straightened out and you can afford the insurance hikes every year because of the environment, because of the hurricanes.

if you do not care about censorship, which i do, ron desantis is a big one on censorship. people in southern florida who listen to cuban radio, not english radio, get fed a lot of misinformation deliberately targeting them to turn them against democratic values. i live in florida and i have been living in florida since 1981. i cannot afford to get out. i cannot afford to stay. i absolutely want out of florida. someone wants to buy my property, i cannot wait to go. host: that is liz in florida.

a few more of your social media posts. this is out of california, desantis should run, he and trump will be the top candidates and desantis has the better chance of winning. another saying ron desantis says all of the best worlds but he is also in a war with everone else in the world and he is winning -- that sound familiar? another saying ron desantis is just more culture war be asked. mark writing in, he is similar to trump but without all of the baggage. mike, republican, what you think about your governor running for president? caller: thank you. i think he should run for president. the major thing is to get trump out of the picture. you have biden and trump, you have the long roads going towards those individuals not looking at those issues. we became citizens of florida

because we did come from a blue city and it went bad. host: where did you move from? caller: indianapolis. we had a couple of incidences. indianapolis was a great city and still is a great city. we have actually seen the results, and the results are very negative. the problem is if trump runs -- and we have to remember, trump made his billions as a democrat and he donated millions as a democrat. we need to eliminate him so we can face the issues that are addressing this country. what i would love to see is if desantis and kristi noem ran together, president or vice president, i think we can bring the issues to represent the people. i am keeping my fingers crossed,

but if trump is there, it is all going to be about trump. trump is a multibillionaire, his backers are, i don't know. i would like to see him taken out of the picture totally so we can focus on bringing the democratic and the republican party together. we are all americans that we are all brothers and sisters. host: this is robin out of colorado, independent, good morning. caller: good morning and thank you so much for allowing me to speak my piece. i grew up in florida. since i was six years old with my family and we lived in homestead, the keys, north miami beach, and fort lauderdale. before dissent is was governor, -- before ron desantis was governor, there was the other governor, i believe his name was

kryst -- was christie? host: charlie crist? caller: yes. he allowed many builders to buy up properties and build up properties years before desantis came in. i have been with people who knew ron desantis. he has ethics, he has values, and he has morals. i would vote for him as a president because we need somebody else. we need somebody else in the office. we need somebody to bring this country together and bring the different peoples together. we are all under one god and we need to give him the glory and the praise. host: running out of time. a lot of callers waiting. this is dubbed in florida.

-- this is doug in florida. caller: good morning. i really like the c-span dialogue of different ideas. thank you for presenting this. i do not think ron desantis should run for president. he just ran for governor. let him work the four years. when he won he said florida is where woke comes to die. his message is against progressive thought, he is very conservative, he speaks in big pictures and has no charisma. thank you for asking this question. host: to dave in florida, good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i have lived in

the four than i was in the navy's for three and a half years. and lived worldwide and throughout the united states. ron desantis just wants a second term for governor in florida by landslide. the people of florida made a commitment to him. i feel he needs to honor his commitment to the people of florida and served his next term of florida as governor. i would like to -- for president. i think in 2028 would be better for him to run. also, people are dumping on donald trump. donald trump never got a fair

chance while he was president. his biggest thing that was, he was going to drain the swap. mp. that turned them against him right away. host: two hours ago and plenty more to talk about. including, william rinehart, the centers for growth and opportunity will join us to talk about economic abundance in america. and barbara. pair will be here to discuss formal president trumps 20 24 presidential run. >> lives sunday on in-depth,

peter baker and susan glasser will be our guest to talk about russia, the trump administration in the u. foreign policy. the husband and wife team has written three books together. trump the white house 2017 to 2021. join with yo phone calls, facebook comments, calls and twts. live sunday, december 4 at noon eastern on book tv on c-span two. are you a nonfiction book lover looking for a new podcast? try to think of one of the many

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the latest episodes of washington journal -- "washington journal" plus a variety of podcasts. c-span now is available at the apple store or google play. your front row seat to washington anytime anywhere. "washington journal" continues. host: william rinehart is here. he joins us now for a conversation about americans attitudes on economic abundance and what the future looks like. before we get to that conversation, what is the center for growth and opportunity. what is your mission? guest: it is a academic research based out of utah state. i work primarily in tech innovation. i got a couple of research students. we work primarily on tech

innovation, figuring out how to get people back to work. that is something that is really important and critical right now. we work in a whole bunch of issues, including environmental stewardship. we are concerned about what is going on in the deserts and water and all of that. we also have a pretty big component involved in immigration and thinking through those critical areas. there is a lot for us to do. we are a pretty small group. it is one of the more interesting things we are trying to do and come together some interesting views. we are trying to come together research views on how people think about it and understand abundance and the future and how tech innovation. host: if viewers want to follow along. what is abundance and how do you

poll on it? guest: it is a relatively new one. supply chains are having serious problems. i was in target a couple of days ago. there is a these tags that say we no longer have these. i was looking for some advil. there was a tag saying our supplier can i get this right now. i think what we have seen is within our poll, researchers and economists thinking about, how do we solve this problem. how do we ensure that the world of the future is a world map where we have the critical problems, not where people can't get the things that they need. how do we create a world in which there is actually abundance.

that is an interesting framing. it is pulling people from all over appeared that is a really critical -- all over. that is critical. i think that is where i find a lot of interest in it. trying to create a agenda that a lot people agree with and something we can strive for. host: the first question on that survey, one should someone be going to have a thriving and fulfilling life? your options are 200 years ago, right now, 200 years ago in the future for not sure. why start with that question? guest: there are a couple of things we're trying to figure out. general optimism of the world. i think there is this notion with the younger generation is that they are not as optimistic about th prospects of the future.

that is not the case. a quarter of all people said they think it is probably the best time to be born today. 15 or so percent said 200 years ago in the future. another 15% said 200 years in the past. half of all individuals really are unsure about this. with that suggest is, not to say that people aren't thinking about the future, this is not how they necessarily think about public policy issues. that means that there's this possibility really to help people think about what can we do better for the future. i think it really suggest that there is a big openness to it. another critical thing, they found that generally speaking younger people are far more optimistic about the future and about the current state of the

world, at least ask this question suggests. host: 18 to 29-year-olds, 31% say that right now is the best time to be born to have a fulfilling life. another quarter saying it is the future. how does that answer lead us to finding out about abundance in this country? guest: those two things are connected. thinking about the future means we will be making investments today that are not going to necessarily pay off until 15 to 20 years down the line. the younger generation is well-positioned for that. they have been thinking about that. they are thinking today is the best time to ever to be born. that means that there is that underlined -- and not talked about sentiment on young younger cohorts to actually do more to invest in the future. the connections here timmy -- --

to me -- they would suggest the individuals -- at least younger individuals are actually thinking today is a great time to be born and there's a lot of optimism for the future. host: we're talking about investments for the future. some of the topics he focused on in the survey are energy investments, infrastructure investments and innovation and safety. explain that part. guest: this is one of the critical questions we often ask people. if you have been in the past in polls, whether or not the government should be more focused on innovation or safety. i was surprised by this. i thought there would be a bigger concern for innovation -- generally for folks to be more concerning and the government

has policies that we are innovative. the united states would probably come out ahead. most people are very focused on innovation. this is a general dichotomy that we often see. should the government be focused on safety or innovation? i would say that, as someone who does work as public policy, i think the most interesting part of all of this is you can do both. the search for better ways of doing things is also the search for safety. of those two things for me are intertwined. -- those two things for me are intertwined. we are trying to get people's opinions on this. should the government be focused on safety or innovation? host: william rinehart is our guest involved in that paul and

having this conversation about abundance and america's future this thanksgiving weekend. you can join the conversation. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. ghost dance do you want the pole in? -- whose hands do you want the polls in? guest: it is for a number of different audiences. we are hoping that policymakers, people in congress and the local level start thinking critically about innovation and about abundance. it is our big components. we really hope that this is to get a sense of where people are.

get a sense of innovation, where people fit in with innovation and safety at all of the other questions we ask today -- asked today. we are trying to get to see how people feel. there is a lot we have done. these later questions are on new affordable infrastructure and some other related stuff to oil and energy at all of that. we're trying to get the broader sense of how people feel towards innovation and abundance. that to me is a really critical component that some policymakers should be focused on. i think of all levels of government. i think it is going to be critically important for those who are running for local, state governments to try to understand how to create an agenda to try to work from both sides and

crosses the aisle and bring people together. host: how likely isn't that energy will be produced for free -- is it that energy will be produced for free? 15% saying likely. 31 percent saying if not very likely. guest: i think what we are to understand is the idea that the energy should be metered. the u.s. is a very different position today than it was 20 years ago, we are far -- there are some elements to it. we are largely a oil exporter in the u.s. the energy security has come about in the last 15 years because of a whole range of different things happening in the u.s. we're trying to get the

temperature check on individuals to see how they feel towards a broad problem of not just energy independence, but how cheap is energy going to be in the future. we were thinking about what is happening in russia and ukraine and the energy crisis that the europeans are also going through. also, crisis at the pump are still very high in places. we are trying to figure out how people feel towards those. what is interesting for me, i was expected to see the republicans would be more positive about this. it seems that the democrats generally have a much better since that energy is getting more cheaper or going to be more plentiful in the future. host: the members to cover that 19% of democrats saying it is very likely that energy will be free in the next 50 years. that is somewhat likely compared

to 15% of republicans saying it is very likely. between 1% saying it is somewhat likely. how many people did you paul? how --poll? guest: with every single poll, there are some flexibility with how things turn out. if very common tactic to see how people feel towards public policy issues. i like to think about polls in this way. what is really fascinating about all of this, i think it gives a sense of where we are on public policy issues. they could go into the new

congressional agenda and also into state and local infrastructure in the future. i think there's a key component of understanding where people are, but also where public policymakers have flexibility and could be doing more work in the future. host: let's chat with the callers. you are on with william rinehart . caller: this is an important question. i sent 10 letters to the wall street journal talking about the potential for marginal utility setting in for the world economy, modern economy based on growth. there was a book in 2011 by richard heinberg that said that pollution is going to build up, we are going to run out of supplies and the use of credit is going to cost growth to

collapse. the wall street journal will not publish my letters. you put so much fertilizer on the grass and you get good growth, but you keep putting fertilizer on the grass you are going to kill the grass. all of these inputs. is there not going to be a point at which growth cannot occur? why is that not debated? i just want a debate started. guest: this idea has been around quite some time. there's a book called limited growth. there is a lot that is involved in this conversation. i would try to suggest that we would probably need to -- it out as different topic areas. there has been a decline in productivity growth rate. that is generally what we are

looking at when we are looking for more productive economies. in the 1970's things have decreased about half. about an average household today makes about $70,000. if you're only higher trajectory , it should have been about 100 and thousand dollars per american household. it should have been about doubled. this to me is a bigger problem. as long as there are issues in environmental degradation and bigger problems with productivity and the agricultural space, we really do not know why things are slowing down. we do know things are slowing down. as far as a cultural wide collapse, i think that is very unlikely, giving the fact that we have already seen population growth have already stalled and are likely to basically flat line, the next 50 or 60 years.

there are other things to me that are worrying with these trends, particularly that we do not know why we are not as productive as we used to be. through the 1940's and 70's, we were quite productive. my hope is to reinvigorate that conversation and to figure out how we can do better. obviously, there are environmental problems we need to deal with. the resource is the resource in the human mind. i want to give everybody the possibility to do the best for themselves. that obviously means that some of those minds are going to be dedicated to dealing with environmental degradation here and we have done a lot of cleanup. there is a lot of positive things to think about when we look at the changes that have been made since the 1970's in some of the areas in limiting in growth crowds.

there is 11 positive stories today about how we are doing much better -- there is a positive stories today about how we are doing much better. how we are decoupling growth from carbon emissions. there is a lot that goes into this. think through how we can do better and give people those -- the best possible life that they can live. host: this is eric, an independent. good morning. caller: i look to see the republicans and democrats work together to establish supply chains that do not run through china. guest: yes. supply chains are something i have been following.

i have been following for a couple of years now. i am fascinated about how these things have become critical inputs to the u.s. ecosystem. the interesting thing about the united states, despite the fact that we do still get a lot of implicit from china, -- get a lot of input from china come our supply chain is actually the shortest ones in the world. we do not have the critical problems in china. congress really has been -- this has been one of the spots that congress works together. we seen the chips act earlier that fast and that was a big amount of money that went through, specifically to the supply chain issues related to chips and some conductors. i expect in the upcoming congress, this will be the exact area that they will be focused on. supply chains specifically with

the concern that some of these things may be destructed by china if china takes a more stronger posture on this in the future. host: economic abundance and what the pandemic taught us. we had economic abundance before the pandemic, but since then we need to rethink the policies that provide economic abundance. we cannot return to pre-pandemic policies because another pandemic is waiting to happen. guest: the pandemic changed a lot. it was destructive in a number of different lives. my family was affected by it like many other families. i do see that there has been some positive things that come from this. there is now a bigger more interesting conversation about remote work, to allow people to have those -- that possibility of having more flexibility. that is now a very in front

conversation going on. people do a lot of switching. we know that a lot of people left jobs, found new jobs and now they are making a higher wage, higher in overall incomes. we have seen positive things that have come from covid, despite the fact that there has been a lot of negatives. then ensures that there is a lot of possibility. there is a lot of things that we can be focused on. for government institutions -- the pandemic showed that governments, when they do have -- when there is a fire behind them, they can act pretty quickly and move quickly. that is something i would like to see created and solidified within government institutions. the really central concern that we need to get things out and do things quickly. ensure that there are cp

protocols in place. make sure that we are working as quickly and diligently as we can. that is good to be the focus of my research and work in the next couple of years. host: this is pearl, and independents. good morning. caller: earlier in the gentleman who called in about the wall street journal. he mentioned a time and mileage terminology. finite. the oil situation is not infinite, it has a finite amount. even why america goes overseas or deal with china and others is because america is a capitalistic government. like when richard nixon thought about selling products to china, that is how we end up in china

because they convinced people that we got product that we can sell to one billion people. these products have to be produced. americans do not control all of the materials needed to produce or to be independent. to the people who called here, you made a statement earlier that went over their head. america produces oil, they do not produce the moral -- oil here. it is used overseas because it is a rural market based on the american dollar. that sets its value. guest: that is why i was trying to qualify that. i am sorry that that did not come across. the united states is connected to world market. that has a pretty big determinate effect on the price of gas. and a price of a lot of these article inputs. i do not think that we should shy away from the fact that the united states over the last

couple of years has been a energy exporter. we need to do more. and there's a big transition to electric vehicles. that is currently underway. it is a massive change we will see in our economy. i think everyone is woken up to the idea that, we would do really need to transition away from fossil fuels, toward something that is more energy dense. there is a lot of research that is going on right now in hydrogen. there is a lot of research going on with advanced geothermal. there's a lotta research in vision technology. . there is likely a finite amount of oil. we are trying to research and find ways to get away from that and to ensure people have the ability to have people transport

and their formal way of life without having the cost coming from carbon emissions. that is the key thing we have seen over the last 10 years that has been pretty dramatic. so much you have this pretty strong case and energy that we are in a better situation from quite some time. we have seen these transitional waves from these things, from carbon sources and trying to integrate these newer technologies into our lives in a way that makes sense. host: it brings me back to that question that you asked, how likely is that energy will be produced for free in the next 50 years? it is one of your polling questions. why ask for free? how do we get to that in a free

market? how do we get two free energy? you are talking about research and innovation. how do we get there for free? guest: we are just trying to ask the most extreme version of this question in order to understand people's temperature. one way to pick about it, if these things are so cheap and are so easy to access that it becomes much more like a netflix service, or becomes closer to a cable service that you pay a single price. it is basically -- as we say too cheap to meter. there are some interesting technology that can get up there. one of the things we're positive about is the advancement of geothermal. this is a new series of

technologies that have been developed because of fracking and what is happening in oil in the states that allows us to dig incredibly deep into the earth's crust. therefore you are able to use the energy that exist in the earth's crust in order to power a whole range of technologies we are to think this is the most interesting one out of the whole group. . it will allow us to upgrade resources. it will allow us to upgrade technologies. the benefit of these things, they do truly work in the way that some are imagining that they work. you basically would be paying for this service. this service will be close to a cable service or netflix or something along those lines.

we are asking questions on how people think about the future. we are trying to ask the most bold questions possible. that way we get a sense of where people sentiments life. host: in portland, oregon. this is tom. republicans. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i am listening to mr. william rinehart. for policies promoting growth. they are then he talks about getting away from fossil fuels. then he just got through talking about fracking, where it has all kinds of the assist. we have to get away from -- all kinds of uses. we have about two or 300 years worth of energy.

his not indefinite. it is another 200 plus years. the united states doesn't the best and -- does it the best. we already have a carbon footprint at home anyway. i must be just one of the worlds brightest morand's. -- morans. what is this guy talking about? guest: we have a very range of different energy sources currently. there's a whole bunch of different ways we get energy. it is obviously for varying aspects of our lives. we get some for industry. there's obviously some that goes into homes and transportation. what i'm suggesting that we are trying to do, trying to think

through those policies that allow us to get to the next better stage of an economy. currently when it comes to energy independence and oil expiration in the state continues and that those continue through technologies. fusion and division. geothermal also. there is a lot going on here. it is not a easy and simple solution for one thing or the other. as we look at the problems in the critical issues of the states in the near term, we are going to be thinking of the speed of different technologies and policy changes that go on and try to make those possibilities in actual reality. host: this is steve in tucson. good morning. caller: i am very interested in

this talk about moving away from world dependency. electric vehicles seems to be a major part of that. you are going to be replacing oil with electricity. my question is, where does this electricity come from? where does the infrastructure come from? who is going to pay for it? do i just drive up to charging stations and it does not charge me anything? how does this work? host: none of these things are going to be easy. guest: what we are looking at -- i do not think we are looking for an easy transition by any means. as you mentioned, the actual charging stations are being put in by some states. some states are developing in that way. there's is obviously a lot of money that came through over the

last couple of years on upgrading infrastructure. some states are trying to upgrade infrastructure. there is a lot that is coming down the pipeline as it relates to solar and wind. a lot of those projects are actually being held up by various problems that exist in the environmental laws. there is a general sense that we need to clean up and make smoother and quicker. i do not think any of this is going to be easy or cheap. individuals are switching away. they are choosing. in part we will see critical investments in this infrastructure. we are seeing investments in really new technology by the department of energy and a whole range of government entities to try to bring these things to the finish line.

the real big assessment of the reason why we are in a place where we are -- have important sources of energy independence, in the 1970's during the oil prices, there was a lot put on finding new places for energy, the united states, but also on innovation and trying to do better with airplanes. that technology sit into the new technologies that switched over from these older power plants. what i'm trying to say here, the story -- it is going to be a long story. it may take us a 40 or 50 years to make the transition. we are already seeing these things happen. especially with ingenuity that we have in the states, i think that we really can make a very

significant change in the next couple of decades that will allow people to have cheaper energy and will allow us to do much better. and allow us to enjoy a high quality of life. host: citizens of the united states live in a economy of abundance. how does the u.s. stock up against other countries when it comes to the poor and their level of abundance? how are u.s. citizens poor in relations to other countries? guest: that is a big question. it is highly debated. we do see that the u.s. does have some poor areas. i come from illinois. there is a lot that needs to be done in illinois in order to ensure that people have better opportunities. the united states does have a lot of critical assets.

we do have some of the highest household incomes for the entire world. that is a positive thing. there are some areas in places where people struggle. i think that is where we need to ensure that all of these possibilities really kind of come together. we need to make sure that children are well educated. we need to ensure that people have the ability to go to a job where they have transportation and all of these related possibilities set up. they are becoming more productive for themselves and family. when you look at the united states, there is a lot to be said about this. we are a complex society. there is a lot of differences depending on the region.

the northeast has a very different source of income issues that compares to the southwest. when you look at the united states as a singular hole, it is hiding the fact that there's a lot of variety. a lot of this is going to have to be considerate and bawled through at the local level. that is a difficult past. i am not trying to simplify this by any means. it really is the act of the next 20 or 30 years of us getting our act together and make sure more income households are getting the technologies that will allow them to succeed in this current tech -- economy. one of the things that was positive that came out of covid, now we are giving low income households money to get

connected to the internet through a program that i have been speaking through and working on and releasing data with for quite some time. i think there is a lot of positive that has come out of covid. this is one of them. we need to think critically about how we give people the tools to succeed in this modern and growing economy. host: andrew, a republican. caller: thanks for mentioning giving people the tools to be successful. i am in the information technology business for four years. started in silicon valley. our goal was to not have millions of automobiles on the road. what i find amazing is that people are not allowed to work remote.

in certain places we do not have that. what concerns me is that, they invested heavily in the downtown towers. they need the automobile on the road to break down so other companies can be investing. having these electric vehicles are not the answer. hybrid vehicles are already approved for technology. why not mandate that? why not mandate it and doubled the fuel efficiency? they will not do that. it is just amazing how we keep making bad decisions. you do have to create the fuel, you have to save the fuel. guest: there have been some of these efforts.

california is trying to basically go no gasoline powered vehicles in the next 10 years if i recall. hybrid are a very common resource. the mandating part of this is interesting. typically those standards have been advanced or pressed forward by california. if they really tend to be the leader of this. i think people are thinking about going to hybrid vehicles for the reason you are suggesting. a fuel mandate? i am far more focused on the innovation and technology space. obviously, i keep up-to-date with what is going on and energy issues. how you mandate and make the possibility, i am not agreeing

with those two. i just do not know how that would be done or work. you are suggesting remote work is a key component of all of this. i am very much in agreement. there are some industries that can work well with remote work. are there are others who cannot. being in the same area does have a pretty positive effect on the outcomes of a company. what we have been seeing is, lots of different places and organizations are trying to figure out what works for them. elon musk has made a big splash that says everyone has to work locally. he is not the only one. he is not just the only person in the information technology space that is working. i think there has been a lot of stress, especially for my generation. there has been a lot of interest in working for those companies and places that do give

flexibility that allow you to go in maybe twice a week or i like you to work from home or have some flexibility for time. all of these things are beneficial outcomes of covid. there are a lot of horrible things that came from covid. this idea that maybe people need to be flexible with their time. they need to have the flex ability that comes with remote work is a positive outlook on one. caller: good morning. everything plastic is made out of oil. the farmers say they have to use 200 pounds of nitrogen for every eighth of land. the nitrogen is paid out of oil. this winter, the heating bills are going through the roof.

policies up bidens were causing this way before the russian war. let's get that straight. i maintain that biden is going to be -- people out of the house. they are going to be forced to heat their homes or by medication or by food. it is probably going to kill some of them. guest: i am not -- i do not think that biden has the ability to determine how the temperature is going to be. i do know that in california there was a program that allowed for local utilities to turn down the heat. i believe it was in texas. i forget. i do know there was a lot of

incentive that was connected to that. the issue you are noting with fertilizers is a critical issue. a lot of fertilizer comes from russia and has been -- has a very serious issues with supply chains with everything happening in russia. of those two things are going to be an issue. i am not going to say that it is a easy or simple thing that we can do for that in the near term . in the long term, what you will likely see is -- trying to ensure that fertilizer especially some of the input for phosphates, in the united states there is a big key component in florida and california if i remember correctly. as much as things are happening, i would not deny the fact that there are supply chain issues

everywhere. not everywhere, but key critical industries that in the long-term , ics in the united states trying to adapt to those problems. i think i have mentioned this in other context. there is a lot of positive things. we have the most solar power possible because of the -- where we are located. near the equator, we have the most wind energy that can be produced. we have a very young population in -- educated population. we have a lot of problems that we are going to deal with in the near future. caller: good morning. my thought is that, i am hearing a lot of conversation -- at least for people.

they are concerned talking about the policies that have been created to go against the country because the oil is the main steak. from my understanding is, the reality is, the policies are basically taking us in a way of offering incentives or making some companies accountable. it is the companies that determine where their investments go. the policy just divides resources so that these companies can have incentives in terms of whether they are going to do drilling or whatever. most of these companies are in

other places doing business. the way that it is presented to people, the reason why prices are so high, we do not have certain things for the supply chain. i do not see that is true. no one is sure to correct that. they are just leaving it up to that kind of -- type of advertisement. it is the companies that a lot of the stuff needs to be directed to. host: let me stop you there. guest: there are a lot of things that are positive happening with companies. there is a lot of companies in the tech industry are committing to zero omissions by ten-year. a lot of them are actually

paying more for their energy in order to bring down certain kinds of technology. there is a group i have been following pretty closely called spring climate that is trying to invest in new technologies related to carbon capturing and technologies at large. there are companies who are interested in that. i think we need to have patience. we have only seen the interest in the desire to have changes like last 10 to 15 years. we seen a lot of companies wake up to this problem. it is going to take time to switch over our economy to something that is more -- that makes less carbon that has the energy needs for individuals. it is going to take time for these things to work themselves out. i am very positive for the fact that we have come so far in so

few years. we are at emissions level per capita. it is declining. a lot of other countries are at this place as well. we are going to need to make important investments, particularly in fusion and in new energy sources in other -- order for this to come about in the near term. there's a lot of interest in doing this and doing it well, in the sense that people do have productive lives. i think there is a broad recognition in the united states. we have problems. there's a lot of positive things happening in the united states. i hope the politicians and leaders take upon themselves to continue developing this. there are a lot of resources in the united states. when we bring ingenuity to these problems, we succeed in big ways. host: let me end with asking you a question from your abundance

poll? when do you think someone should be born to have a thriving life? 200 years ago? right now? or 200 years in the future? guest: i would hope to hundred years in the future. i am positive. i am incredibly happy to be born and working at this moment in the world. i think there is a lot of positives that exists. i think there's a lot that we can do to make the world better. my work really in the next decade and decades to come really be focused on this to ensure that people are having fulfilling enriched lives that is abundant and positive. host: william rinehart is a senior researcher at the center of growth and opportunity. we appreciate your time this morning. host: coming up in tilde five minutes, we will be joined by

the director of presidential studies. we will discuss former president trump's 2020 four presidential run and the history of formal president running. but first, it is our open forum . the numbers are on your screen. go ahead and start calling in now. we will get to your calls right after the break. ♪ >> congress gets back to work in the wake of the midterm election. watch in the next weeks as the incoming 118 congress makes key committee assignments, gracious new members and sets an agenda for january 2023. meanwhile, tackles unfinished business. judicial nomination and funding for the federal government, which is set to expire on december 16.

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fast-paced report of the stories of the day. listen to c-span any. just tell your smart speaker, play c-span radio. c-span, powered by cable. >> there are a lot of places to get political information. only at c-span do you get it from the source. no matter where you are from or where you stand on the issues, c-span is america's network. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word, if it happens here or anywhere that matters, america is watching on c-span. powered by cable. "washington journal" continues. host: in public policy issue, political issue that you want to talk about. the phone lines to do so is, (202) 748-8000, democrats.

(202) 748-8001, republicans. (202) 748-8002, independents. go ahead and call in today. at least two people at club q confronted the shooter prevented him from injuring others. the suspect taken into custody about five minutes after police responded to the call appeared authorities have not determined a motive where the shooting but his investigation -- investigating whether it was a hate crime. several members of congress tweeting about that tragedy. five americans went out for a night of dancing at a lgbtq plus

nightclub in colorado springs that never made it home. we cannot let this cycle of hate continue. we must act. we have been shook in and mortified by the shooting at colorado springs. the lgbtq community is once again targeted. it would only become common if we do not fight back. it must stop. senator ted cruz of texas. heidi and i are playing -- praying for the victims and loved ones impacted by the horrific shooting in colorado springs. once again, the lgbtq community is a target of a legal attack. my hearts are broken to the victims and their families. we must do more to end hate and gun violence in this country. taking your phone calls now. it is our open forum.

we will start in california. michael is a democrat in san diego. good morning. caller: happy thanksgiving to you and all of your colleagues at c-span. after i talk to you last, you had on a bunch of great people, with the book the divider. then david becker with their book, the big truth. i just wish the people who believe the election was stolen from trump could have listened to david pleaded the case about there was no stolen election . most of the people who believe the election was stolen does not have a open mind. then charlie came on, he put it best. put up or shut up.

a lot of people are getting tired of hearing lies come out of his mouth. i still have not heard a democrat call in and say you guys are to republican based. we got it the other day from some republican saying, how come you guys do not have republicans as your host and staff. she tried to say that we are neutral. which you folks are. host: on susan glasser and peter baker, you mentioned them. their book the divider that you talked about. we will be sitting down with them on c-span's book tv for our in-depth program, our to our deep dive interview program where we talk to authors about all of their work. that is over on foot tv on c-span2 december 4 at noon if you want to catch that.

caller: i know you're doing your job. i still have not heard a democratic caller call in and complain yet. host: danny in yuma, arizona. republican. good morning. first off, i would like to wish you and everybody a very happy thanksgiving. we are all americans. after saying that, i would like to ask, not you, but c-span2 do a question about the crisis that is going on down here about what is going on at the border. we have a biginstead of bringinf these hoity-toity guests that use words you have to look up, why don't you have someone like

sean, tucker, laura, people who know what is going on were worth listening to? it is a bad situation in yuma. host: do you know who the border patrol association president is? he has been on several times. he works on the border and he has been on c-span several times to talk about the border. caller: i know who he is. i am happy you have had him on. he is a straight shooter. he tells it the way it is, but you cannot get biden to answer a question about the border. he has never been down here. the so-called -- scott by it --

biat works to see what is going on. we need to address this border crisis. it is out of control. the democrats have opened this open border and fentanyl is flooding in. human sex trafficking, blah blah blah. i do not know why. what is their motivation other than they think they will credit voters coming in? host: we promise more on the border in the future. thanks for the call. this is sue in missouri, independent. caller: in morning. -- good morning. i was listening to the gentleman that just came off his program about energy. what really bothers me is one

person can kill our energy. we were -- we have all kinds of energy there. i do not understand why they cannot get together and use all of it. our energy that we have. i know the solar and the wind, but anything -- gas, and people need a break. we have a small handful of people that are greedy. that is what they are. caller: this is sarah in north carolina, democrat. caller: good morning. a there? host: yes, ma'am. caller: i agree very much with

the lady who just called and the gentleman from minnesota. in this area, most of the people here heat with kerosene oil. this has tripled within the past six months. to buy it out of pocket, it is over $8 a gallon, more than gas. this is our heating source and this is what a lot of people have to pay. kerosene is more precious now, as precious as food. how come there has been such a severe and terrific rise in the price of kerosene? just to put it in a kerosene heater, we are looking at $8.99 a gallon. how come there has been such a

rise in stuff like eating and oil? -- heating and oil? it probably will not -- but i borrowed probably will not last. how come there has been such a rise in kerosene? mr. alan reinhardt was talking about this and that and solar panels, but we need heat during the wintertime. it is cold. right here, we have 26 degrees. in a lot of places get colder then this. i agree 100% that something needs to be done now. host: johnny in douglasville, georgia, republican. caller: a couple of comments. first on voting -- i do not think there should be any

restrictions on how people vote, when, where, why as long as they are id-verified. another thing -- republicans are never going to win with -- almost 70% of americans believe in legalized abortion. we need to come together and allow abortion for rape, incest or life of the mother. republican, independent, whatever, it needs to be rape, incest and life of the mother and that is up to the doctor. no restrictions. have a good day. host: john, california, independent. caller: first, i called -- that color -- that caller was not a republican because he is in favor of abortion. two, the lady to just called was complaining she cannot afford

energy, but maybe she should look at the local politicians and the people who run her state and ask them why it is so expensive and white it is hard -- why it is hard to keep her home in the winter and help energy is more important -- how energy is more important than food. maybe she could ask us of why she is still in that situation since she has voted for democrats all these years. they have looked out for her in her best interest. leslie, why -- lastly, why are people talking about the four kids murdered in idaho and there is a murderer at large. the guy who killed the people at the nightclub, he is an evil person and should go to hell, but that case is shut. this guy is still at large and there are kids who died, futures that were wiped out.

that is all i have to being say. host: this is the associated press story from this morning. police are still investigating deaths there, asking for patients c. they are asking for patience. residents of this town remain on edge and concerned about their safety. this story is from boise, idaho. they have no suspect or weapon in the november 13 killings that took a town of 25,000 residents in the idaho panhandle. students and residents are expressing concern about the lack of details from police. it was initially said that there was no danger to the public but they walked up back, acknowledging they could not say that there was no threat.

that is from the associated press. john in johnstown, pennsylvania, democrat. good morning. caller: it is a shame that we are the only industrialized country in the world where gun violence is the leading cause of death for children. the republicans always talk about the sanctity of life and issues like that, but the stars having hearings, why don't they have hearings on gun violence? also, i would like to see someone on your show from the southern loss -- southern poverty law center talking about the hate groups in this country. you had ron desantis talking about don't say gay. people hear this stuff and go shoot up a gay bar. we have got to have some kind of

discussion on this. i watched on cnn last night about gabby giffords. it was interesting. it is a shame we have so much gun violence. 20 times more gun violence then europe and australia combined, a dead situation. i am not worried about the border but the hate groups in this country. host: five minutes left in this open forum. any public policy or political issues you want to talk about, you can talk to america by calling in. democrats, republicans, independentsphone numbers for all of you. today at noon, a conversation hosted by punch ball news representative suzanne bannings joining anna palmer for that conversation on the importance of privacy and security in technology. live coverage begins at noon eastern here on c-span, c-span

now and c-span.org. sharon, delaware, republican. caller: good morning. i wanted to say i am from delaware, the state that our wonderful president is from. we all know his history. i wanted to also say we had the midterms. if everybody is happy with their choices, stop complaining about gun violence, rape, prices of fuel. just stop our this is what you are voting for. congratulations. bye. host: oak park, illinois. this is chris, independent. caller: it was a few calls ago that a caller said something about how more conservative things are represented on c-span. i do not think that is true. what i think should be done by liberals in general is figure out more ways to get on c-span

so their views are seen. there are a lot of these invasions from places like the american enterprise institute or hillsdale college that democrats and liberals should try to get their views out on your shows. and you. host: lines for democrats, republicans and independents, you can do that every morning here in washington journal. here he him, texas, democrat. -- miriam, texas, democrat. caller: i live a couple miles from the border. as for all those people who live in idaho or up there that do not know nothing about what is going on here, the migrants are not bringing drugs. they are not molesters. my neighborhood is safe.

we are ok. please, please, please do not use that as a talking point. -- snippets of the life that migrants are having across the border. right now, we are in thanksgiving mode. please be generous. if you see a video clip, they are cold, hungry, they are waiting. be kind. forget all that propaganda and be human, be kind. be americans. that is all i am asking for. host: jerry, las vegas, independent, caller: on your previous segment, you were talking about

energy. i wanted to pass on an idea of concept of --. for it to work, the outlet has to be lower than the inlet. so i am thinking if we ran a pipeline from the pacific ocean into death valley, and engineers could probably figure this out. somewhere along the way, we could get that water into death valley and produce energy. thinking of the drought in the southwest, with that going into death valley and the evaporation from that may cause climate

change and we could get more clouds and rain. this is just a thought i have had. if any other people want to comment, i would like to hear from them. thank you for accepting my call. host: john, our last caller. republican. caller: i want to wish you a happy thanksgiving. i have a hybrid car. i get about 47 miles a gallon to 50 and i have a truck that gets 13 miles per gallon. they charge you $100 for a hybrid and $200 for an electric

call. they are the two raise that to where you cannot even afford to get the stickers for your license plate. host: stick around. 45 minutes left this morning. we will be joined by barbara perry, director of presidential studies at the university of virginia's miller center. she will discuss trump's 2024 run and the history of president running for nonconsecutive terms. >> preet porter your copy of the congressional directory for the 118th congress. it is your access to the federal government with bio and contact information for every house and senate member, the president's cabinet, state agencies and governors.

scan at the right to order your copy today. is 2995 -- $29.95 plus shipping and handling. >> committal and high school students, it is your time to shine. you are environment to participate in the documentary competition. feature yourself with the newly elected member of congress. we asked competitors what is your top 30 and why? make a 5-6 minute video that shows the importance of your issue from an opposing and supporting perspective. amongst the $100 -- $100,000 in ca prizes is a $5,000 grand prize. visit our website at studentcam.org.

>> there are a lot of places to get political information, but only at c-span do you get it straight from the source. no matter where you are from or where you stand on the issues,'s c-span is america network -- c-span is america's network -- unfiltered, unbiased. if it happens here or anywhere that matters, america is watching c-span, powered by cable. >> day up-to-date on the latest in publishing with -- as well as industry news and trends through insider interviews. you can find out about books on c-span now, our free mobile app or wherever you get your podcast s. >> washington german continues.

host: it is a pleasure to have barbara perry, presidential studies director at the university of virginia's miller center. i want to ask help you and your colleagues are doing a week after that shooting -- how you in your colleagues are doing a week after that shooting. guest: thank you for mentioning it. it is on our minds. we hope that people are able to be with family and friends, but our hearts are broken for families who will have an engager -- an empty chair. it was a hard time having been through what people call charles

koch 2017, when neo-nazis descended on town. it is a beautiful from the usually peaceful college town, and that piece has been broken, but we are strong. host: you mentioned that 2017 is back in the spotlight. i wonder what stuck out to you this week between what is happening on campus and media attention back on charlottesville. is there anything that stuck out to you? guest: the first is that charlottesville, though it is seemingly a bucolic university town, we are not immune from the violence in our country. there are people who are angry and maybe medically ill and can get access to weapons. that was one of our first thoughts for the second is i am in louisville, kentucky for the holiday and i flew over on two different flights.

i sent by coincidence to the same ev student on both flights. i said, how are you doing? she said she lives three minutes from the site of the shooting, so it was frightening. we were locked down for 12 hours. i said how did you get through it? she said the president of the university opened his home to the students every evening, had an open house. my friends and i went and it was a bonding moment. that is my positive take away -- the university is handling this well and we are altogether at the miller center and other units at the ground. host: we are sending our thoughts to charlottesville. you mention your work at the miller center and why we invaded you on. -- invited you on. this past week in the hill, you write donald trump: the next

grover cleveland, teddy roosevelt or millard fillmore? explain what those three former presidents have in common. guest: i got this idea for the first time in november of 2020, thinking that if things seem to be going after expected and joe biden was the winner, what would donald trump do? it occurred to me that he would be the sort president who would want to run again. i remember that grover cleveland did this and was our only president to be successful in doing it. we have had seven presidents, starting with martin van buren and coming up to top and the two most famous are grover cleveland -- he was successful in getting two nonconsecutive terms -- and the other is teddy roosevelt,

who served at a term as vice president, sought the presidency after the assassination of william mckinley, then ran in his own right in 1094 -- 1904 and stepped aside for william howard taft. he won the presidency but there was a split between the two of them. teddy roosevelt became progressive and founded a third-party when republicans were not nominated him but all he did was split the republican base and hand presidency in 1912 to woodrow wilson. host: the number you said was 7 1-term presidency and guest: seven one-term presents tosca the hat in the ring for a second term. host: what was it about grover

cleveland that was so successful guest: -- successful? guest: in each of his runs, he won the popular vote and he was popular. we did not have holes in those days, but he was an honest president who did not believe in patronage. but there were issues related to the gold standard. around many holidays, networks showed the wizard of oz. most people know that it is a political allegory. the yellow brick road is about whether gold or silver should now. grover cleveland was in favor of the gold standard, but some in the party favorites over. -- favored silver. that click the party and allowed benjamin harrison -- that split the party and allowed judgment harassing to win -- benjamin

harrison to the electoral college. host: you mentioned the term split the party when a former president has tried to regain office. sometimes they split their own party. explain. guest: they do. this was a bit of the case of this happening, but it happens often when somebody tries for a nonconsecutive second term. typically, he will have been denied his original party's nomination and will split from the original party and go to a new party. in the case of van buren, that controversy leading up to what would have in his second, nonconsecutive term is often terribly tilting issue for the country. a new party developed called the free soil party that was an attempt to ban the spread of

slavery into new states. that party ended up being pulled into the new republican party in the 1850's. often, that will happen. there is some destructive issue that is already spreading boaters and parties. second, if it splits one of the two major parties at the time, it usually allows the other candidate from a party that is rather united to waltz into the white house. host: are we at a point where one of the two major parties could see a major split? guest: i do. i thought when 2016 it might be the case and maybe in 2020 that bernie sanders and that wing of the democratic party might run the third-party candidacy. sometimes, all you need is somebody like ralph nader who gets enough votes to serve as a spoiler, as he did in 2000 for

al gore. if not for ralph nader siphoning off votes in florida, al gore would have won florida and the electoral college. it does not even take a major third party, but i could see that happening. we could see it on either side. what if donald trump does not win the republican nomination for 2024 but forms a maga party ? that would probably split the republican vote and allow the democratic nominee to win. host: if you ever have a question about presidential history, barbara perry is a great person to talk to. we encourage you to call in. here is how we split the lines. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001.

independents, (202) 748-8002 thisiece from the hills part this conversation. is it the next grover cleveland, teddy roosevelt, or millard fillmore? we do not talk much about millard fillmore. can we dig more into him? guest: he was president from 1850 to 1853. teddy roosevelt came to the presidency of nightly death of zachary taylor. here i sit in louisville. zachary taylor was born your charlottesville, but like many virginians, he came to kentucky and settled in louisville. that retailer did eventually. i am sitting about two miles from the home that zachary taylor lived in in louisville. he is buried about two miles from me. this is often atypical scenario

where the vice president will succeed to the presidency. with john fowler, that was after william henry harrison. the presidency -- the country does not really want that person to run for presidency in his own right. often, the party turns on that vice president who has succeeded to the presidency. that is what happened to millard fillmore. he did not get the nomination of his wig party to run for a term in his own right. he waited four years and joined what was a new party at that time, first called the native american party, meaning they were anti-immigration. waves of immigrants were coming into this country. i am mostly of german extraction and rest of my family came in that period of upheaval in

europe and settled in louisville. my mother grabbed in germantown near louisville, kentucky. there was an anti-german, anti-irish movement at that time. they were somewhat secretive and there was sort of a cabal. they were told if you join this party and someone asks you about it, say you know nothing, so millard fillmore ran as a know nothing. that is not the best pr name and it is not a great idea to have your political party if you want to win the a secret. host: so on that string of vice president's whose party turned on them, what are other famous examples of that? guest: john tyler is another. in addition to ohio, virginia is known is known as the mother of presidents. we have all of them pictured in our front room. william henry harrison, running

with john tyler. william henry harrison, after only 30 days as president, passed away. it used to be people said probably from pneumonia because he gave a long inaugural address in the cold rain and people said he got cold, wet and got pneumonia. that is probably not true, though. i am a doctor of political science, not medicine, but i did a program recently for the white house historical association. we had a scholar who is an expert on how william harry that she william henry harrison guide . they think he died of typhus because of poor sewage handling in washington, d.c. that is an example of john tyler not getting the nomination and being upset. truman had a bit of a run in his

own right in 1948 after he had served most of franklin roosevelt's fourth term. 1952, truman was grandfathered into the constitutional amendment which now limits presidents to two full terms, he could have run again. but he was defeated in the new hampshire primary by a tennessee senator who ended out becoming the vice presidential candidate in the ill-fated stephenson ticket in 1956. sometimes, presidents are not wildly popular if they succeed through the death or resignation of a president. gerald ford lost to jimmy carter in 1976. host: barbara perry joining us.

we are talking about an article also available on the front page of the miller center website. barbara perry has made 45 appearances on c-span over the years and you can also find her on c-span american history tv, covering the programs she does around the country in her various roles on c-span two on saturdays. 24 hours of american history television. there are calls for you. this is charles in new jersey, an independent. caller: pleasure to talk to leo. i have got a question about the upcoming elections. friends of mine are on both sides of the donald trump question. are we going to vote or not vote? my question is, has america lost its ability to look at character? is that going to the a problem

going forward? the past president has clearly described his character in his actions. most would agree that character is important. the way he chose not to exit after the american people had voted him out is a disappointment for me. i would not vote for him for anything. thank you again for your time. i hope i can get an answer to that question. guest: such an important question. there is a book by the late political scientist james david farber called presidential character. i remember reading that in college at the university of louisville. he said that the word character comes from greek.

it is what life has stamped upon a person. i view it as the court of a person -- core of a person. we would like to think our presidents have personal and professional character. when it comes to professional character, i would say honesty and integrity. when you look at grover cleveland, you will say that that is what he was but to be. [no audio] [no audio]

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but voters have to be careful about who we choose to run and for whom we vote. caller: a little tidbit about millard fillmore. the compromise of 1850. he was for that and that helped him the soap -- it helped the civil war start later. that may have helped the outcome of that. also, i think the know nothing party is like an ada -- like maga party is that they are worried about jobs that got

outsourced, but nobody ever talks about the fact that jobs are always being taken away by advancements in technology. that is something the maga party never thinks about. -- so it was a compromise about slavery. as new states were being taken into the union, the issue became do we recognize slavery in those states? the non-slave states were concerned that the states allowed inflated people to exist that they would overcome the non-slave states. there was constantly an attempt to compromise. there was the missouri compromise and the idea that wants a free state was taken in that there would be another slave state coming in. we also have to remember that

the founders created a compromise in 1787 about slavery , because the northern states which did not allow slavery did not want enslaved people counted in the population to determine how many people based on pocket this -- based on population would be coming into the house of representatives. as thomas jefferson said, even though he had slaves, knowing that when they signed the constitution, he said slavery is like a fire bell in the night. you suddenly have this terrible problem. he also said slavery was like holding a wolf bite the years. you cannot let it go because it would eat you but you do not want to keep holding on to it. even he, the master of enslaved people, new it would eventually break up the union. host: on compromise, the great

compromise or was it that henry cliff? guest: yes. a kentuckian. host: why was he the great compromiser? guest: he was the man who said i would rather be right than president. but that was probably because he kept losing in his attempts to become president, that he fashioned a compromise that made andrew jackson very upset the first time he ran in 1824. clay split the vote among john quincy adams, andrew jackson and henry clay. and had to go to the house of representatives because none of those men have a majority in -- had a majority in the electoral college. the deal was done, a compromise between client and john quincy adams that john quincy adams agreed to put in his cabinet,

making him secretary of state, if clay threw his support to duncan evans. that allowed john quincy adams to get enough electoral votes to win. you can imagine how jackson felt. it was a dirty deal in his mind, but that was a compromise in play -- caly's own interest but he was also staving off civil war. the mitch mcconnell center, located here at the university of louisville, and for those of you who do not care for the senator, i can tell you he put together a compromise with paul weber, who was a liberal democrat. the two of them came together and compromised about the issues and said let's do this for the good of the commonwealth of kentucky. we have a lot of good tunes and we have a brain drain.

they going to eastern schools. one person -- can we give them a full ride, internships in washington, take them to china? it has been highly successful, as well as teaching civics in a nonpartisan way to teachers in the commonwealth. that is a local example of a compromise between a current senator and a former professor. it has had a huge impact on kentucky and we hope the nation. host: you mentioned a candidate who cap are a presidential bid. you mentioned another one in your column. remind folks who harold staten was. guest: as a teenager, i was a huge tonight show fan watching johnny carson. harold staten became a

punchline. in writing this column, i've got, i will look him up. i remembered that blind as an also ran. he started out as a legitimate politician. he was governor of minnesota, a republican. he tried for the first time the 1940's, failed to get the nomination and went on to be president of the university of pennsylvania. then, every four years he would tip his hat for the republican nomination. see ended up holding the record of nine times. but he never got the nomination of the republican party, never tried to form a third party, but he did become a joke. host: i think we are having some

trouble with the connection. we will get that back as we hear from nelson in hollywood, florida, a republican. are you with us? caller: yes. host: we will go to minnesota. this is douglas, democrat. caller: i noticed in the portrait of millard fillmore that the photographer insignia was brady, new york. i was wondering if that is the same brady that they all the famous photographs of the civil war? it sounded like his term was prior to the civil war, which also leads me to ask about an african-american painter named h.o. tanner.

henry ossowa tanner. his middle name relates to a town in kansas, kind of a sleepy little place now, which bills itself as the cradle of the civil war. jon gruden was there. kansas, of course, was a territory. missouri was a slave state. missouri wanted kansas to be a slave state also heard there was a bit of a conflict there. finally, it just so happens i met -- the spoiler of the gore presidential run -- guest: ralph nader. caller: yeah.

walking down the street in connecticut, i made a u-turn, said hi. he invited me to the american museum of court law in winsted, connecticut, which is where heaton now does a lot of writing. -- he now does a lot of writing. it was a coincidence to meet him just walking down the street. host: you bring up a lot of topics. barbara perry, which one or two did you want to pick up on? guest: thank you for sharing that anecdote. i met ralph nader in the 1970's at the university of louisville not too long ago, he called my office and said, i think he wanted to talk about doing an oral history, because the miller center has been doing presidential oral histories

since the national archive went out of that business. we took it on starting with gerald ford and his administration and we conducted presidential oral histories. we are nonpartisan. a lot of people reach out, senators, members of congress, others we did not pursue it, but it was pleasant to speak with him. but he was the spoiler in 2000. we think george w. bush won florida by 300-400 votes, so it denied al gore the presidency. i wanted to pick up on also want to, kansas. i love that name. in 1910, teddy roosevelt was already thinking he was breaking with william howard taft, who went on to be chief justice of the united states, which was

really the job he wanted. he never wanted to be president. i also loved him as a former fellow of the supreme court working for william rehnquist. taft built the current supreme court building, not by hand, but he was chief justice. it is the most beautiful temple on capitol hill, but teddy roosevelt when all the way to kansas in 1910 and gave a speech that was his jumping off point to try to get the nomination of the republican party in 1912. it is a highly progressive speech. you can find it online and you will think, he was the aoc of the party. the name of his party was officially the progressive party. this town in kansas figures very -- [no audio]

[no audio] -- and in 2000, it looked like we were headed for the tie in bush v gore. i started getting emails from my student. they were saying remember when you taught us about the electoral college, how does that work? i said, we go. if there is a time where no one gets a majority of electoral votes, let's say joe biden runs at the top of the ticket and tru mp forms a maga party and ron desantis gets the republican nomination and that splits the american electorate so much that none of those gets a majority, it then goes, according to the constitution, to the house. they must determine by a vote

whether one of these will become president, but here is the trick. it is not done by the front of 35 members. they vote as delegates from their state. each state gets one vote. typically, whichever party would indeed be the majority of the state delegation would probably win. my thought is we know that the republicans have taken the house. they control the delegations of each of the particular states. it is likely, unless those states would split between donald trump and the republican nominee, it is more likely that they would come together as republicans and probably elect the nominee of the republican party. host: another hypothetical -- 25 state delegations for one candidate and 25 for another? guest: i think it then goes to

the senate and they vote as individuals, but we have never had that happen. we are in unprecedented times. host: this is james, independent, georgia. that was changed. this is jane in illinois, democrat. caller: good morning. my husband and i have visited over 50 residential sites and homes. i have to being remember i think it was zachary taylor, where they had a tailor shop. that was interesting, because you could hear the scissors. they also -- i also have a question. how many presidents were from ohio?

there were quite a few, as i recall. my second question is isn't al gore qualified to be president? he has tried to save the planet and i think he could save democracy. guest: good questions. i am admiring that you have seen the homes of most residents. maybe i can do that in retirement, and to all the presidential libraries, which would now start from the hoover administration onward. they are also building one for teddy roosevelt in the dakotas, but all presidents from hoover onward have official presidential libraries. fdr was the first one. heat deeded over a major plot of land, which was upsetting to his mother, but she finally signed the deed. he developed the first presidential library. i am not sure you would have

been able to see a home of zachary taylor in louisville, may be in orange, virginia, because the one in louisville is privately owned, but you can see where he is buried. al gore, yes, is qualified by virtue of the constitution to the president because he did not serve two terms as president or even one. he is getting a little old to be president, but not by today's standards. he is in his 70's. as of yesterday, we have our first octogenarian president. ohio and virginia tie for the most presidents. for regina, it is 7 or 8. i think it is the same for ohio. host: google note 8 -- notes 8

presidents from ohio. they are all listed on the secretary of state's website. guest: andy john kasich at some point was vying for the presidency. caller: hello. there was a question about presidential history. wasn't pat buchanan running as an independent in 2000? didn't he takes votes from bush? the george rogers clark memorial is in indiana, not too far from you. guest: thank you for that. we are not far from each other. my first job was as a docent here in louisville the last home of george rogers clark in louisville. he had lived across the ohio

river in his eponymous he named clarksville, indiana, but he had an accident when he was elderly and unmarried and had to come over with his sister in louisville. he is buried here, along with muhammad ali and colonel sanders. pepe cannon in florida, you are right. he was running as an independent and a very right wing candidate who could not get the nomination of his party. he tried in 1992 against george w. bush. he damaged bush in the primaries and in part led to his defeat for a second term,, although a lot of that is because of ross perot, who got 19% of the popular vote in 1992. pat buchanan, you might recall the infamous butterfly ballot in

florida, particularly in the palm beach area. you might remember the concept of the hanging chad, when people would punch on this butterfly ballot, which was already confusing, because it was hard to see which candidate you are punching for. when people would punch on the whole, it would not necessarily break the chad out and sometimes, it would just be dimpled or hanging by a thread. you might recall the judges in florida, judges of the election, holding those punch up to the light to see if there was an actual vote. i was lucky enough to go to the first of the two oral arguments of the bush v gore. i ended up sitting next to the county judge of palm beach county. he had been on tv attempting to

count the pregnant and hanging checks. he had never been to the u.s. supreme court, so i had a good time telling them about the symbolism in the courtroom. everybody who is anybody was there that day. i remember ted kennedy coming. host: there is that famous picture with the big magnifying glass. guest: that is the same man i got next to at the supreme court. host: running short on time. another segment we do not talk to obama about on c-span but would like you to -- do not talk much about on c-span, don would like you to talk about william mckinley. guest: the expert on that is a former editor of mine who taught for many years at the university of texas, lewis gould.

keep it as an expert on the history of the early 20th century. -- keep is an expert on the history of the early 20th century and has books on mckinley and other presidents of the era. i know that mckinley had a wife who was quite ill and he seems to have been very kind to her. personally, he is considered of high moral character. professionally, there are people who object to the imperialism of the u.s. and that foreign policy at the time. the spanish-american war occurred at that time and we are taking over places like the philippines and hawaii and spreading as an empire in the post-civil war period. and we are still the most powerful nation in the world. mckinley, unfortunately, ended his second term as president by

being assassinated. that has been all too common. host: learn more about presidential history at millercenter dot org. barbara perry's director of presidential studies there. thanks for your time. guest: thanks. happy thanksgiving to everyone. host: that will do it for our program this morning. we will be back here at 7:00 a.m. eastern. in the meantime have a great monday. ♪ >> live coverage today on c-span. 11:15 this morning, president

biden will pardon the national thanksgiving turkey on the south lawn of the white house. it marks the 75th anniversary of the presentation, which began during the truman administration. at noon eastern today, representative susan dell binney of washington discusses privacy in the technology sector. he is interviewed by anna palmer, founder of punch bowl news. you can watch these events live on c-span. you can watch on our free mobile video app c-span now or online at c-span.org. ♪ >> black friday, the biggest shopping event of the year, starts this friday. at c-span shop.org. shop friday through sunday and save 30% on our newest collection of c-span goodies, blankets, anmuch more. every purchase helps support c-span's nonproeration. scan the code on the right to

shop black friday deals friday through sunday at c-span shop.org. ♪ >> several years ago, i remember watching the airplane window as a baggage handler sending my wheelchair to the jet bridge of the belt loader. the belt loader without holding it, locking it in place. i watched as it rolled off as it crashed off to the ground. i have to tell you, i still get an uneasy feeling every time a wheelchair is brought out of the cargo hold. if it is damaged, i wheelchair is my legs. >> rhode island democratic representative -- testified before a committee. watch tonight beginning at 9:30 eastern on c-span. c-span now, our free mobile video app or online at the span.org.