>> mediacom supports c-span as a public service. >> coming up, calls and comments on the news of the day. a cnbc reporter will join us to talk about consumer confidence, holiday retail expectations and the economy. later, desmond will discuss the u.s. economic outlook and potential policy shifts in the new congress. washington journal is next. ♪ host: good morning. black friday.

on this busiest shopping day of the year, we begin by hearing from you about your spending outlook and how it compares to last year. if you are planning to spend more this year than last, give us a call at (202) 748-8000. if less, (202) 748-8001. if you are planning to spend about the same, it is (202) 748-8002. you can send us a text. that number (202) 748-8003. please include your name and where you are from. catch up with us on social media, on twitter, it is @cspanwj. you can start calling in now about your holiday spending. as you are calling in, the polling and market research firm

if so's is a good place to start -- firm ipsos is a good place to start. good morning to you, cliff. there's a headline in the business section of the new york times. an iffy looking shopping season. the sales outlook is anyone's guess. i wonder what you have been able to piece together. guest: i would say uncertain is the best way to put it. i agree with the headline. we are in a scenario of inflation. inflation israel. consumers are worried about it. that is clouding everything. that is affecting their consumer behavior on the one hand, how they see policy on the other. going into the holidays, that can be a big part of the story. host: on inflation, what have

you been able to find out about americans attitudes about it? will it impact their spending? caller: 50% of americans a site inflation as the number one issue. that conditioned the midterms. that is affecting spending. we see that globally. we see that across the world. we are seeing the same sort of thing. what is going on with spending? what happens when you have strong inflationary pressures? people going to their savings. we have a low rate of savings at this point. we are at 3%. pre-pandemic, we were at 9%. americans have been going into their piggy banks to buy things. they start cutting

nonessentials. we are seeing that across the board. they are buying less, buying on discount, buying generic brands, not name brands. we see it more specifically with thanksgiving. we are coming on thanksgiving. there will be less leftovers. americans spend less. they bought less meat. they spent less on produce. they spent less on alcohol. inflation is affecting the way the american consumer is going about their business. host: do you think there's lessons here for the retail side looking at thanksgiving spending by americans or is it too late to make those adjustments? guest: there's always a way to adjust on the margins.

when we are in an environment like today, when americans are worried about making ends meet, it is about making things more affordable, so it is time to discount. it is time to put in promotions. perhaps have smaller sizes. you don't need the big turkey. americans are looking for those deals and possibilities. they need it to fit into their household budget. that is a way retail can go about adjusting, at least on the margins, what they are offering to meet americans where they are, which is counting nickels and dimes. host: what about holiday travel plans? some people may be listening to this as they are traveling. are they traveling less? guest: we are coming out of covid. covid is not a concern anymore. it has been.

it looks based upon the official data and our own polling that americans are traveling more. they are going to their relatives and friends places. a lot more interpersonal interaction than there has been in the past. that has not been as damp bird as -- as dampered as in the past. it is all about cutting nonessentials. in the american consumer's mind, travel is an essential. but they don't need that big turkey or fourth or fifth accessory or course with the thanksgiving dinner. but definitely travel is important. host: to come back at the end to the headline we started with, that iffy looking holiday shopping season. what will you be watching in the weeks to come?

when can we start telling which direction this will go? guest: we track these indicators weekly. we will be looking at expenditures across different categories and types of goods and services. ultimately, it will be about relative optimism, whether individuals see of the future where -- whether they will have a job. we will be looking at their behavior in more of a tactical way. host: appreciate you getting up to join us. hope you are not missing any deals. do you plan to go shopping? guest: with my mother. host: good luck. thank you.

asking our viewe, w much are you planning to spend this holiday season? are you planning to spend more than last year? (202) 748-8000. are you planning tope less this year? (202) 748-8001. if it is about the same, (202) 748-8002. that is the number to call. we are getting a sense of your holiday spending outlook. as you are calling in, i want to show you president biden from last friday on these questions about the economy, where america is, his sins of the that his sense of the state of the economy. [video clip] >> there's signs of the strength of the american economy.

we've had an extraordinary two years of progress from the american rescue plan, the bipartisan infrastructure law, the inflation reduction act and the chips act. people are starting to see the impact of these achievements. we are just getting started. we passed them this year but now they will kick into effect. it will accelerate in the months ahead. the implementation of these achievements will be one of the key parts of the success of the economy. that is one of the reasons i wanted to bring us together today. i have called together a group of labor and business leaders to discuss progress in building the economy from the bottom up and middle out. they have been partners in creating the jobs of the future and building a workplace to compete to fill those jobs. our approach is working.

the economy grew by 2.6% last quarter. inflation started to slow and unemployment stayed low. what did these statistics mean to people? we have added jobs every single month of my presidency, more than 10 million total. 700,000 of them are manufacturing jobs. inflation is coming down slightly. prices for things like clothes and televisions and appliances are going down into the holidays. we saw the growth in prices to come down as well. gas prices are down. it will take time to get inflation back to normal levels as we keep our job market strong. we could see setbacks along the way. i don't doubt that but we are in good shape. we are focused on that. host: that is president biden

from last week on his view of the economy. we want to get your view and what it means to your spending budget. asking if you plan to spend more than last year, less, or about the same. we will hear from you throughout this first hour. denise of first out of north town, pennsylvania. caller: i am confident in the way things are going. for me personally, i am making more money. i am in health care so a lot of it has to do with initiatives the federal government gave. host: denise, what gives you that confidence?

caller: i look at the way people are feeling. people came out in record numbers to vote. they were positive that they wanted to build in a better direction. at some point, one way or another, we will get it done. host: this is john in louisville, kentucky. good morning. holiday spending outlook? caller: good morning. on the surveys that they do, a lot of people say they don't have money or whatever. the average person says they will spend $1000 on halloween costumes and this on that. they do the survey. they spent billions on halloween

. i am like, i paid two months on my rent. i did not have to pay rent for two months because i took the money biden sent out and paid my rent. a lot of people around here were buying mattresses. then they said, i don't have money to buy food. they are not being honest. that is all i have to say. you already have the survey. they are spending thousands for costumes and candy. people should be more honest about their money.

host: thank you for the call. a couple comments via social media. rebecca writing in, my family is already cutting back. mary saying, basically nothing. we will be talking about that later today. another tweet saying the u.s. economy is dependent on consumer spending. if working-class people flex their power by refusing to buy unneeded stuff, we could force corporations to pay attention to what we want. one more. spend. it is the season to be thankful and fun and festivities. it i not the season to -- it

is not the season to spend on cheap stuff from china advertisers say you need. how much are you planning to spend this season? do you have a holiday budget and how does it compare? richard is planning to spend less. what is different this year, richard? caller: i am. i guess i blame both presidents. i think biden, with his giveaways, caused inflation to go up. i think trump, with his tax cuts, heard us too. but we are good. our inflation is bad, but we are better than the rest of the world, so that is important. there's other countries, inflation is way worse. host: why less this year than last year? what is the difference for you?

caller: it will not be a lot different. sometimes, christmas, we spend too much. the last tweet you got or fax where the lady said they will spend more on the kids in less on the adults, i will probably do the same. host: i can armor the last time we read a -- i cannot remember the last time we read a fax, but we did used to do that. this is john in chantilly, virginia. go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call. you have a great show. also a great quality of rotating hosts. just wanted to say thanks for your show.

it also deserves a lot more recognition. about the prompt, i am planning to spend about the same as last year. i did not spend a lot last year because -- i mean, as someone who is a young adult and does not have kids, i want to put more emphasis towards saving money, so if i have an unfortunate life event or need a surgery that costs thousands of dollars, i would be less likely to rely on people to get that. i want to do it myself. that is something that should be emphasized, especially with recent high school graduates. host: do you mind if i ask old you are? caller: 23. host: what do you do? caller: i work remotely with gis

work. host: in terms of where you were financially last year, where you just starting out? were you in the workforce last year? caller: i was working in retail last year. i just got my -- this job about six months ago. that is what i have been doing since then. host: what was retail like last year around the holidays? so many stories about people not being able to find things on the shelves and shipping taking forever and retailers saying they solved those problems. what was it like? caller: yeah. at least for me, when it came to my shopping, just like your previous guest said, there was a lot of buying store brands and,

since i was a personal shopper, also giving store brands to them since a lot of name brands were not on the shelf. for dairy products, for example, cream cheese, one of the big examples for that, because there were not -- sometimes, there were not a lot of name brand items, so i would have to substitute the storebrand. i have not been -- i have not worked there in a few months, so i'm not sure what the situation is, but there were also staff shortages on our part because there were some days where i had to work overtime too. host: explain what a personal shopper does. caller: we would take online orders and essentially woodshop for them and deliver them.

the customer would come to pick them up or they would get their order delivered through another party. host: appreciate you watching. at 23, how did you come to find this program? we would love to have more young people watching. caller: a friend of mine watched it. i forget how he first heard of the show, but he recommended it to me. host: thank you for calling in. you can do it once every 30 days. looking forward to hearing from you down the road. this is robert out of yuma, arizona. planning to cut back this year. why is that? caller: the way the economy is today, it is almost impossible for a person like me, a korean war veteran, 90 years old, to

put everything together. then we have these immigrants -- border jumpers, you might say -- and we have to protect ourselves in yuma from that. so i am trying to coagulate the whole kit and caboodle and see if i can give a little bit but not much, definitely not like last year. host: why was last year so much more for you, robert? why did you spend more last year? why did you feel differently last year? caller: because of the gifts the government gave me. i was able to use some of that money for gifts and what have you, you know? for that is all gone now so what can you do? host: talking about the stimulus

checks. what do you think you use that the most for? where does the lion's of that money go --the lion's share of that money go? caller: grandchildren, great-grandchildren. for their college education in yuma. in arizona, i should say. my grandchildren have tremendous bills. i'm trying to give my great grandchildren a chance to go to college and -- with all that extra money that students have to pay for student loans. host: how do you feel about the

student debt forgiveness effort the biden administration has been pushing for? caller: i am against that. my two grandchildren went to school. one has already paid off a $50,000 student loan. the other one, of course, still has a ways to go yet. he's five years younger. and, well, what else can i say, right? it is a merry-go-round, you know? host: thank you for the call. you mentioned the border. you mentioned immigration. this is a story from the op-ed pages of the wall street journal. here is the author of the story. the labor shortage and the border crisis are colliding.

she writes, when i visited the border town of del rio, texas, health wanted signs were everywhere. customs officers reported 235,000 immigrant encounters, 71% of which were with single adults, and everyone i talked to wanted to work. this is what a failed immigration policy looks like. the u.s. has admitted more than one million migrants into a system that was designed neither to handle an influx on this scale nor allow those arriving immigrants to thrive. immigrants in the interior say they cannot work legally. most people will not get a work permit until around a year after arriving at the border. she said the system fails migrants and strains of social services while depriving american businesses of the labor they need. that in the wall street journal.

this is joan out of toledo, ohio. planning to spend more this year. what makes you more confident? caller: i'm a first time caller. i'm going to buy joe biden a ticket out of town. thank you. host: where are you going to send him, joan? joan out of ohio. a few comments from our social media page. ramsey in millington, michigan -- randy in millington, michigan, says he will be able to spend more this year thanks to the great pension. some of that will be toward extra gifts and some to those who are less fortunate. in florida, inflation has c

ost average families $7,500. there is no change in the economy. 2% thrives well a shrinking middle class lives on credit. to that last point from netsuite, this is a front-page story in the new york times. as the rich spend, spiraling prices are challenging the poor. many consumers are still flushed with savings and well off financially, bolstering luxury brands. at the same time, the story notes america's poorest are running low on cash buffers, struggling to keep up with prices, and facing climbing

borrowing costs. the fed raising interest rates to make borrowing more expensive. it is hoping to cool the economy and bring inflation under control. the adjustment is already a painful one for many americans, evidence that even if the central bank and pull off a soft landing, it will not feel benign to everyone. the headline is rich spend. rising prices challenging the poor. we are talking about the economic picture in americno as we enter the holiday season, asking you how much we are -- you are planning t spend. is it more than last year? (202) 748-8000. less than last year? (202748001. iis about the same, (202) 748-8002. two youngstown, ohio. good morning. caller: good morning.

i already did all my christmas shopping. i spent a lot more because i'm at home more. i wanted to make a comment on the article you read from the washington post about the border and the people that need work. host: the wall street journal. go ahead. caller: yes. i agree we all need to work but i think that it is a ploy to get these people here to work, take jobs from regular people that need toward as well and -- need to work as well and divide the country. i don't think they should come here and start working. they need workers. but i don't know. i think it is all a ploy and they don't need to just come

here and work like that. half of them cannot even speak our language. host: what should we do about these help-wanted signs you are seeing? how do we help businesses solve this problem? caller: well, it is a capitalistic system. if the owner cannot get help, maybe they should go into another line of business. not everybody is going to make it all the way, you know? host: what are your thoughts on how we solve the border crisis in this country? caller: this should be the way that it is. catch them and send them back. host: that is bortha. you are spending less. what has changed? caller: the tighter budget this year.

i'm a business owner. it is a coincidence that you were talking about something two weeks ago that is affecting me, a labor shortage. it is affecting me because a lot of people became dependent upon the government handouts. they become less motivated and dependent upon government. as far as my spending, that does affect me because i have less revenue. i feel that the money i do spend should probably go towards smaller businesses. i want to spend more with local businesses because they were affected more during covid. the big-box retailers and other chains have profited

tremendously over the last three or four years because they were the only ones that could remain open. what little i do spend i will spend on smaller businesses. as far as my business, i have not taken on new business because of not being able to, you know, hire other employees. host: what kind of business do you run? caller: property maintenance. host: in terms of trying to hire new employees, have you had to raise wages with inflation rates? how has that impacted you paying employees or advertising? caller: i have raised wages to not so much attract employees, because i will be honest with you, i worked very hard since i was young and i believe you are

either a worker or not. that's an excuse for people not to work. i do pretty well as far as my annual income. however, if i was not working, i would work for $100 cash a day. not that that is what i would pay, but i would work until i got a better job or opportunity. that is part of it. a lot of the workforce has lost its work ethic and expect a lot of people -- a lot of people expect things to be handed to them, whereas in the past, more people were motivated to work. i don't like to use the word menial, but starter jobs, and then you work your way up and eventually own your own business and become the ceo of and. host: let me bounce these three

paragraphs from this story off you from the front page of the money section of usa today. what are your thoughts on that? caller: well, yeah. i see that the smaller businesses will find it harder to compete with the economies of

scale at the larger companies. however, regardless of what the pricing is, i will still use smaller stores. i am not trying to be so frugal as i was. the limited amount of money i will spend i will spend at small businesses regardless. host: tom from philadelphia this morning. another tom waiting in west columbia, south carolina. caller: about the same as i did last year. and i would say i have my shopping done for an 81-year-old man. i don't have much of a family. i do have a friend and i by her a nice present every year and that is pretty much it. let me caution people.

i know of a fellow who was driving down the street in columbia the other day and his transmission went out in his car. he had a baby in the car with them and his wife. they had to get the car towed and it will cost him $4500 to get the car fixed plus the fee. so be cautious about what you are going to spend, because we never know what the next phone call will be. we sure don't know that. i would caution people about falling all over themselves on black friday or whatever. i must say, though, i agree with the previous caller that a lot of people have lost their work ethic. i just wish i had a job to have an ethic about it. nobody wants to hire an 81-year-old man. they just don't want to do that.

they think i am too fragile for whatever. listen, i can do a lot of things in life if somebody would just give me a chance, but i agree with that man when he said people have lost their work ethic. that is my comment. i hope everyone has a good holiday season. as i said, my stuff is done and i am happily on down the road. thank you. host: thank you for the call. how much are you planning to spend this holiday season? asking if it is more, less or the same. we talked to the ipsos firm earlier about their reports. here's another one, deloitte's annual holiday retail survey. what they say about022. 37% of americans report their

financial outlook is wor. 74% say they will spendore of the same as last year. consumers plan to spend about $1455, similar to last year. that's the average answer. low income americans planned to spend -- americans plan to spend 25% more. 73% of respondents expect higher prices due to the inflation issue. that is deloitte's 2022 snapshot heading into this season. black friday the busiest shopping day of the year. how much are you planning to spend? this is jack in warren, ohio. host: good morning -- caller: good morning. i will probably have to spend less.

i have some financial issues and things going on in my life. i had some car problems. things are so expensive now. i thought i had coverage but they threw me a curve ball. do your research on car shield before you give them your money. anyhow, i wanted to get back to talk about the border. the border is a big issue, especially in the black community. we really are not working like we should. the reason we have a lot of now hiring signs is because they are not paying enough people to live off in america. we are very independent. we don't like a bunch of people in our house.

we just want to have our independence. when we live with a lot of people, a lot of stuff comes up. we tried to -- host: on not paying enough, we talked before about a $15 an hour minimum wage in this country. do you think that is fair and livable? caller: that is not even livable now. you have people with child support payments, getting out of jail who have to pay fines and late fees for child support, and a lot of times, they suspend your license. we are not able to get these jobs because they put felonies on us and they let these illegal people come here and break laws and there is nothing done to them. while they are leapfrogging us, the black and poor white

community are suffering. the minimum wage should be $18.5 an hour. they should still be able to get a job with a felony and help these people. that is one of the biggest problems we are having in this country. the democrats and republicans don't want to address these problems. that is why these young people are not working. you can get a felony off a little bit of anything. people are still in prison for marijuana and they are selling marijuana out of warehouses now and it is legal. host: this is jack in washington on the line for those who say they are spending about the same as last year. caller: we should concentrate more on the northern border. the real threat to america is canadians. they are coming here to get jokes.

they have destroyed our sense of humor and replaced it with theirs. they are funny people, but we have our own comedians who need work and cannot find work because canadians have displaced them. host: canadian comedians is the problem you are saying, earl. that is your biggest concern. caller: that is my biggest concern. i mean, humor is an american thing. we invented humor. host: phone call from washington. steve in st. louis, missouri, planning to spend more. caller: we are going to spend more. we have a small family, number one. we have a new grandbaby, so there will be more, but really, my wife and i make a list through the year for charity donations.

that is where most of our christmas money goes. catholic charities, veterans groups, etc. my family, i have to say, we are pretty well-to-do. there's not a lot of stuff we need. so we really target charitable contributions during the christmas season and that gives us a lot of satisfaction. host: is this your first grandbaby? caller: that is. host: what are your thoughts about the world that child is inheriting? caller: i am an optimist. this is america. we are going to make it through anything we are going through now. i think being born in this country, that gives my grandson

a leg up over the rest of the world. that is just my feeling. but christmas to us is a lot different than it is to a lot of other people. we look at the ones who don't have anything. my wife and i are diligent on this. we have a big list of donations to charitable places. it gives us a great feeling. host: if people want to do that, donate, where is a good place to start? caller: well, what we do is we go online and we pick local charities in the st. louis area. typically we start with catholic charities. we will donate to housing for

abused parents. we will work our way down. we make donations in cash. hopefully, they choose to help others. host: how much do you end up donating in a christmas season each year? caller: this year, $800. that is up a little bit from last year. but, you know, it is our way -- that is our christmas. host: thank you for talking about it.

david out of baltimore, maryland, planning to spend less. why is that? caller: i will be spending more. everything is so much more expensive. i have not done my christmas shopping yet, but i know groceries are usually $70 more every time i go. i'm lucky i bought a house a couple years ago. the rent i used to pay is $500 more than they used to be. i think this -- these rate hikes they are trying to slow inflation, they are doing it wrong. the rate hikes are just there to bring back down wages that we gained during the pandemic. if they really wanted to control inflation, they would raise taxes on the 1%, and we are already seeing 55% of the inflation we are seeing is due

to price gouging. we have had a few collards talking about how no one warrants to work anymore. what those college don't realize is that when they were coming up, the median income was $60,000 and it is now $35,000. rent, health care, housing, education is always more expensive, so there's no labor shortage. there is a wage shortage. we don't have enough to live on. everyone is struggling. 65% of americans are living paycheck-to-paycheck. the rich get richer every day. what we really need is to go back to what we had. we need a top nominal tax bracket of 90%.

we need to raise corporate taxes so that money goes to the workers and communities and not to billionaires' stock portfolios. that is all i have to say. host: what line of work are you in? caller: i work for city government. i started a new position and thought to try to get a higher wage and they would not do it. the money just was not there. but it is really tough. i know my position was paying the equivalent of $20 an hour 15 years ago and now it is paying $17 an hour. we lost three dollars and earning power. i realize that is inflation-adjusted, but that is where it counts. you have older people saying, when i started working, i worked for $1.5.

that is good money in today's money. they have not looked at what the inflation is. host: you mentioned interest rates and you bought a house. what rate did you get for the house he bought? caller: 3.25%. host: when do you think we will see that again? caller: not for a long time. especially because the fed even said they don't think the rate hikes will bring down housing or food or gas. it is just going to hurt the working man like myself. it is going to drop asset prices and the rich are going to buy them up. host: thank you for the call. trying to get a sense of the latest of the 30 year fixed rate, around 7% in the past

week. george is next out of maryland, planning to spend about the same as last year. ahead. caller: i willcall: about the same. back in 2020,the pandemic came into play, iiredor my construction job i for over 10 years e i would work more hours.employer to this idea that people are lazy nowadays and are not wilo work is a crock. i worked two jobs when i worked in construction for 10 years because i never got paid enough on-the-job to live off of. they don't pay you enough and after you are there for a while they insist you work more hours. they say you signed a contract.

if you do not work these hours, they give you the moniker of you are lazy. finally, i got fired and i work for somebody else now and make more money. i work one job as opposed to two. i am now to the point where i'm almost completely out of debt because i quit the job that made me lazy. i am doing much better. host: are you still in construction? caller: i am and i am doing way better. the corporations need to pay their fair share. they do not. if you are belittling and demonizing workers, you will not get people to work for you. host: you still plan to spend about the same as last year. how do you plan when it comes to

seasonal spending like what we are about to go into? caller: the price of things has gone up a little bit, so i can spend more now that i am making more. inflation is temporary. it will be here for a while but it will stabilize. it may take longer than people anticipate. but people want instant gratification. when things do not go their way, they have to have somebody to blame. host: thank you for the call. we will come here in d.c., mark, that line for those of you who say the you are -- say that you are spending more this year. caller: i feel a bit guilty saying this because some of the other collards have shared their experiences but i am doing fairly well. i work for the federal government so my income has remained the same. additionally, there's been some

government intervention to help individuals, whether that's stimulus checks or restructuring student loan forgiveness, so i feel like i am in a good place and feel comfortable spending more. i think the households that have a higher income, that is probably their experience. i did hear callers talk about immigration. it would be smart for them to check out an article by thomas friedman about how outsourcing and globalization has changed america. we are all experiencing great social, economic and cultural change and that can be uncomfortable. if you are a coalminer and your grandfather was a coal miner, that's probably not a possibility because we are moving towards electronic

vehicles and people have to re-skill and that can be uncomfortable, so i think that should be discussed more. i feel like we are -- i feel like i am in a comfortable place. i will spend more this year because i did not spend much the past couple years. that is my experience. host: thomas friedman in the new york times? caller: that is right. host: thomas friedman has been a guest on the c-span networks or appeared on c-span 60 times over the years. you can check out his appearances on the c-span video archives. this is lester out of the land of 10,000 lakes on the line for those spending less this year. caller: can you hear me? host: yes. caller: the guy who called about

the canadian border, there's no problem on the canadian border. i look out my window and i look at canada, ok? host: concerned about can you medians -- about comedians from canada. not a concern of yours? caller: definitely not. people come here to buy gas and groceries and go back to canada. host: how are you doing in minnesota? caller: my state tax looks like it will near double. the fuel. and my heating, there -- the propane, that's almost doubled. and you know, my social security has not doubled. it is going to get tougher. this winter -- we are just starting. we have snow on the ground. the temperature now is 19 degrees.

host: what is your propane bill a month, lester? caller: i pay by the year. i paid $2000. i don't know if that is going to make it. host: what has it been in the past? caller: usually around $1200. and before, i got a wood backup. i cannot quite go out and cut wood. as a backup for when it is real cold, because we do get real cold here. host: you are right on the border? caller: right. i look out my front room window and i see canada. host: thank you for the call. appreciate it. aj in atlanta, georgia.

good morning. caller: good morning. i am a long time c-span listener. for black friday, it is very dangerous for -- i recommend you bring on dr. claude anderson. when blacks were freed in 1865, we made up .05% of the wealth in this nation. and 2022, we still make up .05% of the wealth. the difference is we spent 1.7 trillion dollars outside our communities. most of that is spent today on black friday. so it is perilous for us. i worked two jobs and this is the first time i have been off in five years. we really need to think about things like, for example, president trump spending an

enormous amount of money on the one person who don't need it, and the people who contributed to this nation nothing. mitch mcconnell says reparations are not a good idea but we have given them to japanese-americans and jews and all other groups but no one has built this nation or worked in it more like blacks so it is unfa to -- the income we make and give to them. host: that is ajay out of atlanta. a couple minutes left in this first segment. this is jackie in philadelphia on the line for those who say less. caller: good morning. i have not called for a long time. there's a local dollar general i love to shop at. it went downhill.

i was getting nervous. i was going there seeing cards -- i couldn't get down the aisles and cans falling on the floor. i am 86. i started picking them up and stocking the shelves. i went up to the cashier, i said, are you looking for people to help? they said, yeah. they are young people. they said, can you go online? they said, call in. they were trying to give me a job. i said, no, i cannot. i just go and help them whenever i can i just go and help them whenever i can. i love the store. host: you volunteer to stock the shelves? caller: i don't think they will hire me as a volunteer even, but if i can pick up the cans and put them on the shelf, i do it,

because it's kind of hazardous. host: how are you doing financially? caller: two years ago, i was on food stamps and then my husband died. i got the money that helped me get off food stamps. people said, just keep applying. i said, no, i'm not going to apply for food stamps. so i am doing ok. let me put it that way. i am spending less this year on my grandchildren and on friends, but i will help out myhost: time calls. guillermo also in philly, good morning. caller: greetings, may peace be in all of creation. i'm going to let you know how i've been able to manage given

at least the same. i started praying, two i keep the status which gives me peace and i started donating 10% of what i make. i live on a fixed income and i am now saving money. isn't that something? pray, and donate 10% of your salary. you will be rich. may peace be in all of creation. host: where do you donate your money? caller: i donate to every cause. i don't have any particular cause. i just pray and look around and see what i need to do, and just do it. i don't care where the money goes, i don't care what they do with it.

all i have is peace in my heart. and you know i have more money now than i have ever had because i pray, i keep the sabbath, and i donate 10% of my salary. host: guillermo in philadelphia. lucy says i probably spend about the same as last year because i usually budget pretty well. we buy each other one gift and we sure the cost of holiday dinner we have been doing it for quite a few years being together is more important than anything else. anne a good portfolio, people try to balance their budgets. sandy said i'm not spending as much this year because we stopped by for all of my extended family. i get my niece, may be some taylor swift tickets and this

from terry in florida not spending at all, discuss, food, and utilities. who can afford these gouging prices during the worst inflation ever? biden is a computer -- complete failure. this is danny out of atlanta, georgia. go ahead. caller: i don't want to sound too terrible i'm going to spend a whole pile of money. i want to donate it to c-span i want hosts on there that won't use so much precious time with small talk. i wanted to call the show yesterday and see if there are any women out there that don't live in iran now i want some money to call and talk about iran between all the people. thank you very much. host: i promise we will talk

about iran again, we will to about the protests. our last caller fit for this segment but two more hours left to go up next we will be joined by retail and consumer reporter melissa repko to talk about consumer confidence as we kick off this holiday season and later desmond lockman of the american enterprise institute will join us for the broader u.s. economic outlook. stick around, we will be right back. ♪ >> american history tv saturdays on c-span2 exploring the people sent events that explore the

american story. on the anniversary of the cuban missile crisis experts revisit the confrontation between the u.s. and soviet nuclear powers. the impact of military and political intelligence and at 6:00 p.m. eastern conversation educators face when teaching colonialism and the first thanksgiving. history as it happens podcasts and exploring the american story, watch american history tv saturdays on c-span2 and defined a full schedule on youram guide or watch any time on c-span.org/history. >> are you a nonfiction book lover looking for a podcast? try listening to one of the many podcasts c-span has to offer. on q&a you can listen to

authors. learn something new on book notes plus. afterwords brings together nonfiction authors with interviewers for wide-ranging, hour-long conversations. we talk about the business of books with news and interviews about the publishing industry and nonfiction authors find all of our podcasts by downloading the free c-span now up or wherever you get your podcasts. >> sunday not on q&a wall street trader turned photojournalist about the plight of those living on the margins of society in america. >> it was empty because all the semi's were gone and she was in the industrial park at one point. immediately her intelligence

does kind of came right through. we spoke for about an hour, half an hour or so and she told me her life which is just, you know, everything wrong that could happen to somebody. and eventually i asked her what i asked everybody which is how do you want me to describe you? and she just shot back something was like that's what i am, a prostitute, a mother, and the child of god. >> sunday night on c-span's q&a. you can also listen to the q&a podcasts or you get your podcasts. >> to people who know him well he is first and foremost an accomplished storyteller. second and not least he has been for 25 years the chief of the

library of congress's books and special collections division. the library has over 850,000 items including charles dickens walking stick, the first book printed in what was to become the united states and the contents in abraham lincoln's pockets the night he was assassinated. mark has a lot more to add to the conversation about his work. >> library of congress and special collections division chief on this episode of book notes pl. available on c-span now three mobile app over wherever you get your podcasts. >> book tv every sunday on c-span2 ftures leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. at 2:00 p.m. eastern the great

military and civilian leaders with retired army lieutenant general robert foley author of standing tall. john davis combat to college and ymond james raymond then at 8:00 p.m. state president graham about the child abuse sex scandal in his book the lion's den. watch book tv every sunday on c-span2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at the tv.org. >> "washington journal" continues. host: black friday seems like a good day to check in with melissa repko. joining us this morning on the "washington journal", holly -- attic into this holiday story

retailers biggest wish is to get rid of excess inventory on their shelves what do you mean? guest: we are seeing a reversal of a lot of the dynamics we saw a year ago. a lot of shoppers went to stores thinking they would not be able to get items on their wish lists. retailers have a lot of goods and they are wanting to clear through those. some of the other companies, walmart and target are the companies that are trying to clear some of the popular pandemic items like dvds and athletes shirt and computed her -- computer monitors. host: what is the expectation heading into this holiday season on this black friday? what are retailers thinking right now about what kind of holiday season is going to be for the bottom line? guest: they are catering to a consumer is a tougher sell at this point people have spent

through their stimulus money and in some cases are using their savings accounts, credit card balances to pay for gifts and outfits for the holiday party so people are looking for bargains and promotions and that means that black friday week starting today running through cyber monday will be more important for retailers because they are treading to the price -- catering to the price sensitive shopper. host: house inextricably going to now whether consumers are back spending again? guest: we will get data throughout the day today. i will be looking at numbers to see how people buy online, the quickest read of how people are shopping and we will hear a little bit more from retailers going into the coming weeks. they may tell what people are buying and not buying we will really hear how it went next earnings season when the season concludes which is end of

january. it's a long sprint i had with retailers trying to take advantage and this for -- first week it doesn't necessarily translate to spending even i've they spend that mean there is a lull i had of christmas because people may be looking for deals and not willing to buy full price. host: maybe we can give you some data points. melissa repko is with us, cnbc consumer reporter. we are talking about the u.s. economy. (202) 748-8000 for republicans, (202) 748-8001 independents go ahead and start calling in. he mentioned it briefly earlier but i want to come back to it the supply chain issues this year compared to last year so

many problems with keeping items on the shelves last year had support -- supply chain issues. guest: a lot of retailers best buy, walmart, target, have said things have gotten much easier in some cases they have over ordered. in general, cost seems to be coming down with shipping so that seems to be good news even if the consumer is not as strong in the months of head gas actually talked about this on the earlier. usually those goods come in on boats it it's really experience to fly goods on planes. that does help on some of these

retailers out and they can pack on the savings to consumers. host: these earning reports and these calls by these companies what has been the sense that you've gotten from those calls especially in the past couple of weeks? guest: everyone is being more cautious going into next year i think there is a general sentiment that the holidays might be a little bit slighter then retailers field -- feared. there is caution because people are using credit cards mark, and they are reverting to other things like spending on vacations for example or sending children back to soccer camp or piano lessons or other types of spending priorities. and again the shifts are coming at a time when people are paying more for groceries and gas so everyone is trying to balance a budget and best buy ceo told me

there are trade-offs people are making. in some cases they are treading down but they are starting to think about how to i budget? that leads to a tougher sell for retailers. they need to offer something that's compelling. host: one of the headlines the surge after retailers stick with the holiday quarter outlook saying best buy reported results at the top of wall street's expectations so his more optimistic as he look at these retailers or wall street making their bets on it? guest: the ones that are feeling a little more college -- confident are those that sell what people need to buy some walmart for example is the largest grocer. at hopes to sell them at tv or t-shirt as well and companies like that are in a better position but the thing you have to remember is walmart makes

more of its money from selling apparel entities and commute -- computer monitors and would people are buying no connect they are not aching as much from those items so those are not as comfortable. while they drive frequency that doesn't translate to profit. the ones that are a little bit more concerned or shopping malls that sell apparel, things people may say i'm not going to buy as much of those because they are spending more on necessities. host: was going to walmart for a second and the difference between walmart and target as you noted the quarterly results, the stark difference between the retailers. guest: when people think of target they just about how they go to the store and they cover two things and they come out with 10 other items they didn't know they needed or wanted. people talk about the target rent and that dynamic of target selling more discretionary goods and less grocery really has captured in this moment when people think do i need it or do

i want to? with walmart they draw about 55% of their sales from groceries for target it's about 20%. people are not for shopping different parts of the aisle. things they might say as we say for a disney trip, they are not going to spend on. host: i do have some callers for you but i want to talk about what area of the economic picture. the hireling reports, the high job numbers what is the expectation this holiday season for the seasonal sales, how does that compare to last year or the pandemic year? guest: the jobs report is one of the positives that a lot of retailers have pointed to. that actually called out the fact that it's such a tight labor market and how it makes people more confident in spending.

if they feel they can get a job if they lose their current job they might be more willing to spend so it is a dynamic that bodes well for the industry even as inflation remains high. it's a positive sign of where the consumer may be. host: black friday is the super bowl, melissa rocco covers that beat for cnbc. until about the top of the hour we are taking your phone calls. caller: for democrats to:. (202) 748-8001 for democrats to:. (202) 748-8002 for independents to:. (202) 748-8000 for democrats to:. caller: to me trying to understand the conflation because it seems to be surrounded may be food and food

only. because all of the other things that i want to do like travel and vacationing, it can never stop. the pandemic was good to me, after the pandemic like income continue to rise. i'm bashful about inflation, the election, people that keep saying bidens policies but they are saying to me that everything is working itself out surely but slowly and when inflation is due to go away, i wonder what they will be talking about. host: the only time you really hear or see that phil -- feel that inflation is when you check out the grocery store? caller: right. high prices. host: let me bounce that off of

melissa repko. guest: people see inflation show up at the grocery store because those are items that have gone up significantly but it's also important to remember travel has gone up, people get airline tickets they are higher than before and i think part of the reason why you may not notice it in the same way is people are not looking over and over again typically. it's more of a one-time expense. so they may not feel it. they may forget how much it costs to book the ticket before sifting with hotels so it may mask some of that inflation whereas buying milk or your favorite snack at the grocery store you notice the price going up because you know what the prices. host: also buy gas stations get so much attention when gas prices go up. you pass those every single day. guest: exactly. people are aware of it so they have it in the back of their

mind. for those high-frequency categories, print, grocery bill, gas, they really remember that. how often are you getting an appliance or redoing your kitchen? you may not see those increases because they are kind of masked. host: this is patrick, good morning. caller: good morning. bringing someone from cnbc, those interviews to navarro and dannon and all those steep date -- deep state fake news. host: we are talking retail and consumer spending, do you have a question about that? caller: let's talk prices. clinton, tried to get a law

passed or she bought a certain amount of commodity features, you had to take possession of them. the price of housing, if you are cnbc first in business worldwide expert there would look back over lumber it went from 500 to over 1200, a month later back to 800, back to 800 back down to 500. no control over market manipulation. it was so hot they had multiple cattle die. one place in kansas, 5000 cows drop dead in a day. that's bidens problem. we can't move barges up and down the mississippi, transportation went up 300%. are they going to blame that on bike too? host: you mentioned the

different couple points. guest: it has become a factor for retailers. this is something they didn't think about as much because there were not those dramatic fluctuations. lumber prices kick that because we had seen a surge in home improvement. apiece for good news about commodities as i heard from god -- gap for example that caught is going down. that can help as times get a little tougher. people not searching for apparel as much as they did at the height of the pandemic. host: wesley, good morning. caller: good morning. i actually, there is democrat or republican in the house, the problem is i see people what to blame everything on one person and that's not fair it's like

biden has been set up for this purpose. the issue we have as they have the rich people ruling and that's not going to stand with god. that's just the way it is. i'm here in texas, [indiscernible] when i call the white house on september 11, 2001 omelette because the white man had property -- host: ok that is wesley in texas. the front page of the new york times puts it in a headline this morning spiraling prices are challenging the poor saying it's going to be a very different holiday season depending on

which side of the economic ladder you are on. i wonder if you saw that story. guest: i heard more from executives about what they call by for pick -- bifurcation. there are people who can't afford to spend and those who have died up their savings account. we heard this more from walmart. the ceo saw a very noticeable shift and that's especially clear, lower income consumers but interestingly a lot of walmarts have seen customers from wealthier households which may indicate they are looking to save our may be they're feeling pinched as well. the grocery share has come from households out of 100,000 plus so it raises questions about consumers feeling the pinch across the board but a lot of luxury names that anza bunch of different brand names like louis

vuitton that are associated with higher price tags, those are continuing to do well. the question will be can they continue to do well or will they also see the fact that walmart is hiring -- or even higher households are trading down are looking for better deals. host: let's talk about consumers by each group. young people have been going to restaurants and bars and troubling and spending because they had their student lines on hold for three years and that's been a big impact on inflation and prices your thoughts on young people and spending and student on? guest: that is an interesting dynamic i think it will be interesting to see in the coming months how it all shakes out. i wrote a story with my colleague and she covered airlines. a lot of people have been buying during the pandemic because

there wasn't a lot of places to spend their money and young people are online those people who traveling and dining out and perhaps were a little bit during the pandemic despite concerns about covid we still pushing through. but we are seeing this debate play out between stocks and travel, shopping and trauma. it may be too sad to say how that will shake out that i think in the coming months there may be more of a winner and loser because of that in retail the rising tackle lift all those like it did during the earlier days of the pandemic as people are spending more on traveling, going out and as young people are spending to pay all student loans again. host: during the pandemic, the retail side was sort of having its high and now people are moving back to the travel site, to the detriment of the retail side? guest: exactly.

and back -- black friday we have a tech firm that's been providing us with information and eight search was when people were talking about looking for gifts activities and experiences is what people are looking for. they were looking for toys and beauty are dems but that is number three on the list today. people are looking to get back to the experience they weren't able to do in previous years so taking someone to a show or concert are away for vacation rather than getting them in ida -- item. host: what about the shopping experience itself are people lining up hours in advance or our stores opening super early to let those shoppers and just like being out and shopping on black friday? guest: that's a complicated thing to answer i think over the last few years a lot of retailers were shifting away from just the doorbusters element of black friday. they were extending sales into

cyber monday and with the rise of cyber monday the black friday, lining up outside the store became a little bit less meaningful. but this year, there is generally expected to be more in store shoppers and coming from this inflation, people looking for value and a and feel what they are buying. and what my -- might show up in a cardboard box. host: we had a caller last excitement, people getting it all done even before we get to the traditional starting line today of black friday. guest: that's interesting and that caller is an exception to the rule. they are seeing a shift back to the pre-pandemic holiday timeline so they anticipate more people will be shopping this week coming into cyber monday and the rush before christmas, the week before. they have not seen as much early

shopping as a year ago or two years ago. the storyline everyone is hearing on the news is people are not going to get what they wanted. there were supply chain issues and much wanted items, this year the exact opposite where retailers are trying to clear through inventories. that is a game of discount chicken or they just, they don't want to get the item for 40% off because it might be 50% off in a week or two. it's hard to get people to shut up if they feel they can get a better deal closer to christmas. there is always an element but i think in a year when people really want to bargain they are waiting for the biggest in the best and that leads to prestress to nation. -- procrastination. host: jerry, you are on with melissa reppo. caller: one thing nobody ever talks about is diesel. everything is shipped in this

country is moved with diesel whether it's trucks, trains, or barges. i remember when diesel when the victory was coming out with their pickup trucks, it was way cheaper than gas and that was one of the selling points. the price jumped up in 2004 when the oil prices went up and it never really came back down. the same things go for engine oil. it went from about a dollar a gallon to about five dollars. and it went down from 2014 now. thank you for the time. host: fuel prices and how much retailers have to factor and, to? prices. guest: fuel prices have been on the mind of retailers. people may not be buying as much

discretionary goods as they use to during the height of the pandemic but gas prices have been easing the interesting thing walmart noted on a call last week is it actually has not seen a change in consumer behavior so even as people pay a little less at the pump that has not voted -- motivated them to revert to past buying patterns. i think there are just some many expenses people are juggling even if they pay a few lower scents at the gas station, at least as far walmart has not seen that translate into them seeing people be more free with their money. host: alyssa rep. comer: last consumer reporter at cnbc you could follow her on twitter thank you so much for the time this morning. guest: thanks for having me. host: we will continue talking about the u.s. economy. we will be joined by esther

bachmann looking at policy shows we could see in the new congress. stick around for the discussion. we will be right back. ♪ >> are you a nonfiction book lover looking for a new broadcast -- podcast? check out one of the many c-span has to offer. you will listen to interesting interviews and site -- learn something new through conversations with nonfiction authors and historians afterwards brings together best-selling nonfiction authors for wide-ranging, long conversations. and on about books we talk about the business of looks with news and energies about the publishing industry and nonfiction authors. find all of our podcasts by downloading the free c-span now have or wherever you get your

podcasts. >> tv every sunday on c-span2 featureseading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books at 2:00 p.m. eastern discussion about the great military and civilian leaders with retired general robert foley. john davis and combat the college and raymond james raymond author of elite salt and at 8:00 p.m. and account of the penn state child abuse sex scandal with the book in the lions den. watch quick tv every sunday on c-span2 and find the full schedule on your program guide or watch any time epic tv.org -- at book tv.org. fridays at 8:00 p.m. eastern

c-span brings you book tv on fiction off -- nonfiction authors are interviewed. tonight dallas mavericks ceo saint marshall shares her memoir you've been chosen about her life and career as the first black female ceo of the nba. watch afterwards every friday at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. >> to people who know him well mark is first in four masked an accomplished storyteller. he has been for 25 years the chief of the library of congress special collections division the library has over 850,000 items in the collection including charles dickens walking stick,

but published in 1640, the first book printed in what was to become the united states and the contents in abraham lincoln's pocket on the night he was assassinated. mark has a lot more to add to a conversation about his book. >> library of congress chief, but notes plus is available on then now mobile app or were ever you get your podcasts. >> "washington journal" continues. host: desmond lachman joins us now. pay studies the global economy. the headlines strained markets need a functioning washington and gridlock want help desmond lachman

explains. guest: we just had the midterm elections and what has occurred is we now have a divided congress that the democrats have lost the majority in the house and they do maintain a majority in the senate but what that means is the prospect that things can be done over the next two years. we have a government as for is the economy is concerned so you can have any real initiatives in terms of spending policy, or text policy -- tax policy. if washington is gridlocked, neither party can get up to too much mischief either. the democrats spending too much money or the republicans are taxes without funding it as has

occurred in previous periods. the point is that we are not living in normal times the u.s. economy looks like it's going to go into a recession next year. that's the consensus opinion, there are many reasons to think that is going to be the case. there is reason to fear if the recession is going to be deep. we also have real problems in china with the zero-tolerance covid policy with the trust with europe because europe is going into recession because of russia cutting off the natural gas supply so we have a global so recession so it means any recession you have in the united states could be rather deep. we also have concern that the problems in various markets that

the federal reserve had a very easy money policy over in 2021. what they did is not only did they bring us inflation but they also inflated all sorts of prices in the market. stock prices, bond prices, or credits that got very low rates. now that they are raising interest rates, we could get strength in financial markets because of the rising inflation because of the recession. under no circumstances you would want to act rather aggressively. what they did up to 2008 prices, we went to a deep recession we were worried it was going to go into a depression a government had a stimulus package. the same thing occurred in 2020. my fear is that this will occur with the gridlocked congress should we go into a deep recession. the other concern that i've got is the fact that the republicans

are in control of the house and speaker kevin mccarthy is talking about making an issue. what that means is we could get into a situation where questions arise as to whether the treasury is going to honor its debts, for that they are going to pay off the treasury bonds. then we could get fear that the u.s. might default. it might be downgraded. that's the last thing that we need if the recession and markets are very fragile. we don't need to add to that kind of strain to sum up what i'm saying in normal times, a gridlocked congress might not be a bad idea. but if you think we are going to

go into recession could be deep, that we could have strains on the financial market, the last thing we want is an administration that is not able to react with stimulus measures to prevent the recession from getting really bad. and we also don't want strengths -- strains on the financial market that could come host: host:. why are we so sure a recession is going to happen and is there ways to still act to avoid that? guest: it's a little bit late in the day. the recession we are going to get is the price that one pays for letting inflation get out of control. what we had as a combination in 2021 of very expensive budget policies. you recall there was a $1.9 trillion stimulus plan that came on top of the $3 trillion

packages under biden so there was $5 trillion of spending and then we have the federal reserve keeping interest rates extraordinarily low, by a lot of paper, buying assets to the tune of one ton -- $120 billion a month. inflation reached a height, once you get inflation reaching as it did, roughly 9% and you get wages rising at a rapid rate, an order to get the inflation back down the fed is now slamming on the brakes and the only way they can get inflation down as to cause unemployment to rise. they're hoping they're going to get a soft landing but that is really extremely difficult to do. the chances are very high that we go into recession.

that is becoming a common view among economists who are also seeing it in the markets when you get interest rates at the short and, at the two-year discretionary rate which is not above the 10 year rate that means the market is expecting that were going to have a robust session in 2023. as i said, the time to have thought about avoiding the recession was in 2021 with the federal reserve being a lot more cautious. they should be raising interest rates a lot earlier they should stop printing money. their job is supposed to be to take away the punch bowl on the party gets going. at looks like what they were doing was spiking the punch bowl and as a result we got high inflation. we have falls in the credit market, the stock market, so they painted ourselves into a

very difficult situation they are now trying to clean up. host: how we overseen a soft landing ever actually happen? or is the idea of a soft landing more aspirational than realistic? guest: you can get it if you don't start from such about position on inflation. the inflation was five or 6% if they anticipated it was going to be high and again putting on the brakes they would spend a good chance they didn't have to have so much heavy lifting to do. here's what they got to do is bring down the inflation from 9% and try to get it done to tw0. what the fed has done is another reason why i would expect to get a hard landing if they are raising interest rates at a pace which we have seen before.

when the fed is putting off rates it raises, they are making increments on credit cards. and has not on -- raised basis points they checked reset very quickly by something like 3.4 percentage points to has made housing expenses for the average person. the mortgage rate at the start of this year was 3% now it's 7%. so what that means is that if someone could afford to buy a house with $400,000 at the beginning of this year they cannot afford to buy house of something like $275,000 and that's the reason you already see discretionary conditions in the housing market.

host: we like to invite viewers to join the conversation. aei.org if you want to check out his work. (202) 748-8000 for democrats to:, republicans (202) 748-8001, independents (202) 748-8002. he is with us for about another half hour so go ahead and dial in as george did in louisville kentucky. good morning. caller: thank you kindly, sir. good morning. i don't think the fed has that much yet here is the problem with housing if you have low interest rates people spend on property like stock ed royce the price up whether it's apartment rentals, houses in areas,

whether it's the business commercial property, so we need to curb some speculation on property that way we get the price down because low interest rates only? price and they offset each other. mergers, we had so many mergers between 2017 2020. it has not been enforced at all. companies are displaying, it's a loss like they are in collusion. the president does not manage the economy business ceos do. you have the u.s. chamber of commerce, the business roundtable, national restaurant association and their -- they have general knowledge and there is no stopping and seeing has been, on tape saying, bragging

about the inflation and seeing we need more of it basically. we need to curve market power and stop all of these murders. thank you. host: mergers, antitrust, seeking house behaving badly what do you want to pick up on? guest: basically agree with both points that the caller is raising. very low interest rates and the fed flooding the market in 2021 what that did is the housing bubble. we saw housing prices over the last two years increase by 40%. they are maintaining interest rates too low, for too long. so the best part is sustainable situation as they raised interest rates we are now going to see prices come down a lot.

so the federal reserve, adina recently came out saying that the house prices next year are likely to be pulled by 20%. that is a huge declined is going to impact a lot of people. that's trying to get housing to a more sustainable level. low interest rates, encourage speculation that encourages all sort of market misallocation's and when you slam on the brakes that causes destruction i certainly agree that one of the problems of the u.s. economy as corporations have too much monopoly power they have too much control over the market and the trust hasn't been enforced for many years and any serious kind of way that would be very helpful on the inflation front. if there were more competition, there would be less pricing power that the companies have. that would be helpful but it

doesn't look like there's much advertised or antitrust policy on the other sitter the aisle to get that done. that would be something that would be very helpful. host: marshall, texas. this is kevin, a republican, good morning. caller: i tell you how economically ignore it our country is but, you know, you have been talking a lot about monetary policy but i wanted to get your take on the fiscal policy i'm hearing a lot of colors talk about price gouging and greedy corporations and all that and i remember when president trump had raised the tariffs and the price was well of the salt paid to the consumer. the consumer is going to pay that. president biden has incorporated

this corporate tax. while that also be born by a consumer? i need the midst of supply shortages i don't see how raising the cost of production is going to help the presenting. one of my question is about 50% minimum minimum of what? if a corporation doesn't make any money, 15% of zero is zero. so how exactly does he come up with this minimal corporate tax? host: thanks for the question. guest: 15% minimum tax is not a idea he's try to avoid companies having loopholes where the pay no tax so it's basically geared towards companies that are you

-- using the system not to tax it is a fear situation. not to impose taxes on companies that they're forcing them to have the prices up. the broader point in terms of fiscal policy is that there was a real fiscal policy wrecked access and at the time pointed out when the american rescue plan came forward $1.9 trillion on top of $5 trillion in the period meant your property is above and if you have it coupled with the federal reserve that is

very easy on monetary policy so no you have this powerful combination of a very expensive policy a very expensive monetary policy. there is no surprise it was going to go to a market that paid hi. host: the question from one of our viewers on social media he wants to know if you think the more -- war in ukraine is a global contributor? guest: i'm salute lee. the idea with inflation is that there are a few causes. i think that is a major cause of inflation but there was also external factors beyond any administrations caloric -- control. the war in ukraine has changed

the whole dynamic in the commodity market whether it was oil, gas supplies to europe, they have other sources to keep the price of oil process like $80 a barrel, it went to $120 a barrel. likewise, with food, russia and ukraine are major green producers. -- green -- grain suppliers. the united states is the only country that has very high inflation. we are seeing the inflation in europe. they are running something like 10%. it's much harder for them than here. the point is ukraine was one

external factor. the other external factor that we've had to the pandemic has been the supply chain has gotten messed up so if you can't get chips from the automobile industry, then you could use our prices going through the roof the inflation story we were at his level of inflation we haven't seen in 40 years and has many contributors, some are external but what i'm arguing is that a very large part are the inflation problem it will excessively have spent and a monetary policy that was far too loose for far too long the key

part in new jersey, this is edward, good morning. caller: if inflation is defined by too much money, it seems to me they rewrote their base talking about the going to cost everything -- everything will cost one dollar there's got to be losers so i guess my, angus mcquiston is what does america have to lose in order for the economy to run? guest: i would say a lot of america is losing as a result of the monetary policy. when you get in inflation, inflation is attacks on everybody. it doesn't get too far, so you're looking at the average worker was occurring is wages are increasing, if prices are

going up in percent it means they are losing practically everybody who works earning a wage, not keeping up with inflation, what is particularly bad about inflation is that follows most heavily armed right now the prices have gone up because of ukraine and so on and the editor in to process goes with the kind of goods that are very heavy at the income levels. this is a really call text so if inflation is affecting everybody, our going to have is on the -- fed puts on the brakes unemployment is going to go about may be that only affects a certain number of people, 5%,

10% of the population. but that is also kind of priced so the bond s are ready. you would have less inflation so people would search less. we will then not need to slam on the market greeks -- brakes. just in terms of to much money tasting few goods chasing few goods what occurred during 20 and 21 is the money supply increased by 40% which is a huge deal you don't have to view of monetarist to say keeping interest rates too low, it was a big controversial.

host: question from our text messaging surface please explain the consequences of the default. guest: i'm not sure we want to go there. it is not involve any for the united states economy for the united states economy the global economy so if the united states, this would be the equivalent of a nuclear bomb going off on the global economy. that has disrupt so much discretion, it will cause chaos that is part of the reason why administrations get background into some sort of deal so that everybody can see that you are going over, you really don't

want to follow. we really got in mark that is very you don't want to raise doubts of the united states is going to be paying interest, you saw that in the united kingdom when the interest rates shot up at all of a sudden you had to pay attention to fronts. the location, that's if you are moving into recession that would be like in layman moment so this is something avoid. to have a big show over this disastrous economic consequence

that would have her from the why do we have pillars the argument that could be main -- made is redundancy of the budget is approved by congress the spending plans and the tax plans are approved, the potential that results from that, pleasure celtic get so we know something a second time and that would attached. the people who would be in favor of a debt ceiling would say this is a way we can use leverage over the other side to get expenditure reductions. it is really playing with dynamite, what is putting at risk the whole country if the other side holds out and you

have these protracted discussions, that can be very disruptive to financial markets and we saw that in 2011 when what resulted is united states lost its aaa rating, s&p downgraded the united states because there was concern the united states would default on its obligations and that tends to raise the cost of borrowing for the government. this is something that hopefully will be avoided so both parties can put country above narrow political interest and come out with something that is reasonable and that saves us from stressing financial markets at a time when we are very vulnerable. host: is just after 9:00 on the east coast.

our guest is desmond lachman. this is john from saratoga springs, new york. good morning. caller: good morning. i think the cat is pre-much out of the bag that the government -- we are just going to have to ride this thing out. the money supply went up 40%. at the same time, wages went up. now most anyone that wants a job can have one. there is a much money it is like stocking the river with fish and these corporations are the fishermen. the ceos can get away with raising prices as long as all of this money is out there and we will have to write out. i do not think the government can do anything about it. they put all of the money out there and now we will have to ride the storm. host: mr. lachman?

caller: i very much agree with the point that once you've done the damage you have done that you pay the price for that. the problem was in 2021, it was one thing to have a very expansive budget, but once they had an expansive budget the federal reserve cap printing money. once you have all of that money, you are bound to get inflation, and now we are having to clean up. this is something that is regrettable that i would say both the administration and the federal reserve have got a very big role in getting us into a situation that is very difficult. we need a huge amount of luck and hopefully that does occur

for us to get a soft landing. it would seem to me the odds are pretty high at this stage of the game there is nothing much they can do to avoid it. just trying to minimize the cost. what is important is that the federal reserve having played itself into a situation has no alternative but to put on the brakes. if they do not put on the brakes and inflation becomes entrenched and we go to ever higher levels of inflation, then in the end when they put on the brakes, the downturn will be a lot worse. at least what they have done is recognized that they have made a huge mess in 2021 and now they are trying to rectify that. that is a good thing that they do not let this run any further. host: westville, new jersey.

maria. independent. good morning. caller: good morning. i have two questions for the gentleman, both having to do with foreign entanglements. in my research on the federal reserve, they report to a board of trustees, that includes foreign banks. i wanted him to go into what that really is because they are calling the tune and they are not really of us. i would like to know how come our inspector general can only go to a certain point when they try to audit anything. the second thing is, our involvement with ukraine and the president. he wants to make the ukraine greater israel and have some sort of zion oil company. we keep sending money over there because israel is involved. who will do an audit.

host: maria in new jersey. to the federal reserve. who does the federal reserve report to? guest: the federal reserve reports to congress. the federal reserve is given independence by congress. they passed a law saying the federal reserve can run monetary policy, but that that'll reserve has to come back to congress -- the federal reserve has to come back to congress and report how it is doing achieving the dual mandate congress gave it. congress said we want a federal reserve that is technical adequately -- that is technocratic lay run -- price stability is one objective and the other is maximum employment. the federal reserve has to go before congress every six months , they can be called more frequently.

they have to explain to congress what they are doing. if congress was do not like what they are doing they can impose on the federal reserve what should be done. the federal reserve, by letting the inflation get so high by messing up like this, they are exposing themselves to more oversight by congress. it is congress who has control. they are giving the federal reserve independence so that they can do this task in a technocratic way without too many political inferences. you do not get the rapid inflation we now have. the federal reserve has messed up rather badly by not doing what they were supposed to do to keep prices stable. they were supposed to keep prices around 2% a year. instead what we have is

inflation get over 9%. they did not miss the target by a little bit, they missed it by a huge amount. host: another agency is the national monetary fund. what does the imf do? caller: the i -- guest: the imf is very useful at a time like this when there are a lot of global problems so many countries now find they are in debt difficulties, especially the emerging market economies. the fact that you have oil prices and food prices go up because of the russia/ukraine war, these countries had very high debt levels which the federal reserve helped create. now when we go into a downturn, these countries repay their debt. you needed agency like the imf to help these countries weather

this very difficult situation, private loans with conditions attached that they improve their finances. this is part of the idea of keeping the national economy in better shape. that is something else that will be needed next year is as i've mentioned before, it is not only did united states that is going into recession. europe is already going into recession. china is slowing in a way we have not seen in the last 30 years. the emerging markets are in real trouble. in those situations you need some sort of international economic policy coordination, and to get that you need the united states to be exercising leadership. with a divided congress, i am not sure how that is going to play out. host: to friedland, maryland,

this is steve, line for democrat. caller: it is so refreshing to hear somebody who is hitting the nail on the head. i would say we should have raised our rates in 2008 when we had the housing crash and feel as if we waited there to save the financial institutions. instead of having failures of our largest banking systems and sorting out the bad weeds where the bad trees in the forest, we just seem to stay in a zero rate inflation rate for 30 years now. in addition, i think globalism was baby not the best idea because outsourcing and off shoring our economy was a bad thing to do. with that, here we are in a place where, the one thing i can tell you the new congress is going to do is print more money.

my question is is how much money -- because that is the only thing we seem to manufacture in the united states other than the industrial military complex -- how much money will it take to print our way out of this situation and where will that leave us in the future? one last thing. you want to think about running for president. thank you very much. host: desmond lachman? guest: let me handle the last question first. i want to make clear i have no intention to run in 2024. in terms of the fed, it was not just that the fed was keeping interest rates very low. that is one thing they were doing. the other thing they were doing is buying an enormous amount of treasury backed bonds and securities. to give you the idea of the extent of that, after 2008, ben

bernanke increase the size of the federal reserve's balance sheet by a massive $4 trillion, but it took him six years to do it. under jerome powell, the fed in 2020, it took them six months to increase the federal reserve balance sheet by $4 trillion. what they were doing is fronting a huge amount of money into the system. that causes all sorts of problems. it causes the housing prices going up, stock prices going to a bubble, anyone can borrow money even though they do not have a business plan. now that the fed puts up the interest rates, we get a real problem. the issue is when we go into this next downturn, are we going to make the same kind of mistakes we made after 2008 in

2020? are we going to have the fed flush the economy again, create all these bubbles, all of these distortions, and then we repeat the cycle again, or are we going to do something more sensible, have some kind of budget policy that makes more sense to deal with this so we do not put all of the burden on the federal reserve to put us out of the situation, and then we just go back to it in a worse way. one of the consequences of the federal reserve's easy monetary policy, and that is the region he worry about this globally is the world has never been as indebted today as it is right now. the debt level to date globally

is something like 50% of gdp higher than it was before 2008 crisis. that indicates how dangerous the situation has become. we have had too much money floating around, we have too much debt in the system. there is a risk this does not end very well. host: bill in albany, new york. republican. thanks for waiting. caller: i have a couple questions. one is regarding the federal reserve and how they raise the prime interest rate and what they did in the 1980's versus today. in other words, what would cause banks to borrow money so banks can lend money, then when the federal reserve raises the rates too high, the banks had to borrow the money from their customers so there would be rate wars going on and they get the money from the people.

that seems to have stopped because you cannot get more than 2% at a bank right now. i am confused as to why that stopped if interest rates are going up and the banks -- more with the federal reserve, why aren't they trying to get the rates from the consumer and the customer? that is one thing. if i can jump to the energy and before the war in ukraine, i thought inflation was going up. larry kudlow said when we stopped our petroleum production and refineries and pipelines in the united states, that is when prices started to go up. we do not have anything to take its place so we had to go borrow the oil from opec and those countries again. i think -- he seems to think if

we just go right back we can reverse that and start being energy independent and then inflation will go down. what do you think about that that? right now, china holds all of the pharmaceuticals and ingredients and stuff like that. we could help our self with that. i have those questions. thank you. guest: what is going on in terms of the federal reserve, it is similar to what occurred in the 1980's, except in the 1980's inflation is a lot worse than today. they jacked up interest rates like crazy and we had a big recession in the early 1980's. there are similarities. just in terms of the banks, some banks are competing actively in this kind of environment where they cannot get the money from the federal reserve. they are raising interest rates. some banks are offering cds at

three point 5% or 4% for 18 months. there is that kind of competition going on. in terms of oil, if we did produce more oil, that would be beneficial for having lower gasoline prices. that would be helpful on the inflation front. i am the inflation problem is far deeper than just being confined to the oil and gasoline part of the economy. we have this all over the economy. that is more a question on what a previous caller said. it is too much money chasing too few goods or too much expenditure because of the government. that has inflated everything else. to be sure if we were producing more oil, that would be helpful,

but it brings inflation down from 9% to 8% but will not get it down to 2%. to get it back down to 2% you will have to get wages slowing, and that is not an easy task for the federal reserve to be going. host: trying to get one more call, this is melissa in bloomfield, iowa. go ahead. caller: thanks for taking my call. my biggest question is i would like him to talk about this paris accord and climate thing and the reparations biden is wanting us to pay to underdeveloped countries for the bad climate we have done and they do not hold any other countries responsible, it just seems like we get to pay. host: any thoughts? guest: the climate, i think that is an issue that will affect us

all in the longer run. i have been focused on what is going to happen the next year or so. that is expenditures that the united states does in terms of climate support, that does affect our budget. it is not the major factor driving the budget. the major factor driving the budget was the $1.9 trillion that was spent in march 2021 coming on top of $3 trillion. those are big numbers. whether you now get $50 million, $100 million, whatever the figure is. that is very small in relation to the big forces that are affecting the economy. host: desmond lachman is a senior fellow at the american enterprise institute. aei.org is where you can go to

check out his work. we appreciate you talking to us on this black friday. guest: good to talk to you. host: about 40 minutes left. we will turn the phone lines over to you. any public policy or political issue you want to talk about, now is the time. phone lines for democrats, republicans, and independents are on your screen. we will get your calls right after the break. ♪ >> fridays at 8:00, c-span brings you afterwards from book tv. a program where nonfiction authors are interviewed by journalists, legislators, and more on their latest books. tonight the dallas mavericks eeo

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on your program guide or watch on mine every time at book tv.org. -- or watch online every time at booktv.org. >> preorder your copy of the congressional directory for the 118th congress. it is your access to the federal government with contact information for every house and senate member. information for the president's cabinet, federal agencies, and state governors. it is 29.95 dollars shipping and handling and every purchase help support our nonprofit operations. >> congress gets back to work in the wake of the midterm elections. in next week's the incoming 118th congress selects its leaders, mixed key committee assignments, creates its new members, and sets an agenda for january 2023. the outgoing 117th congress uses

its final weeks to tackle unfinished business such as defense spending, judicial nominations, and funding for the federal government which is set to expire on december 16. follow it all live on the c-span networks and c-span now, our free mobile video app, or anytime on demand at c-span.org. >> "washington journal" continues. host: and our final segment we are ending with open forum. phone lines are yours. (202) 748-8000 for democrats, republicans it is (202) 748-8001 . independents, (202) 748-8002. two stories from today's paper. this from the wall street journal. the house select committee to investigate the attack on the capital on january 20 -- on

january 6, 2021 is weighted to finalize its long-awaited report which it expects to release to the public in december and make decisions about possible recommendations of criminal charges to the justice department. the story noting the report is based on more than 1000 interviews or extensive videos of the attack and millions of documents will be the final summation of the year and a half summation and could include a criminal referral to the justice department for former president donald trump and allies of his who aided the attempt to overthrow the 2020 presidential election. the other story, the front page of the washington times, looking back on election 2022, republicans lead democrats by 3.5 million votes when all 435 how selections are combined and what in a list are calling a clear but not overwhelming signal of the road is preference from the republican party. the washington times says some ballots are still being tallied,

which means democrats will make up some of that round. the analyst says republicans will up with a lead of 3%. in any normal year that would be good enough to net about 25 seats and give republicans 230 seats. those are just some of the stories from today's papers. this is our open forum and we have plenty of calls. bob in atlanta, georgia, republican. what is on your mind. caller: thank god for c-span. it is the only place you can hear the voice of reason like desmond lachman. i am sorry he left. he kept talking about 2008, i want to talk about 1929. in seven years that will be the 100 anniversary of the big crash. i do not understand why the democrats can just print money. i have a household budget that i

have to watch. if they keep printing money, the world is not going to accept the dollar as reserve currency and we will go back to 1929. as an addendum, why didn't president hoover just print money if it is that simple? host: this is john in glen falls, new york. good morning. what is on your mind. caller: i would like to congratulate c-span for having desmond lachman on and i think c-span should have a lot more programs like that to educate us and to assist us in looking at reality. thank you very much. host: appreciate that. mike in montgomery, alabama. good morning. caller: good morning. with your previous guest, i agree with what he is saying. with unemployment being so low this is dangerous, it is like

having a patient with very low broad pressure -- with very low blood pressure. full employment is 7%. with the great resignation continuing it will get worse. economists call this a black swan event and we need to be cognizant of what we are going to be up against in 2023. thank you for hearing my comment. host: job numbers in this country from last month according to the bureau of labor statistics, employers added 261,000 jobs in october. the unemployment rate rose to 3.7%, that was from 3.5% in september. zan in el paso, texas. good morning. line for democrats. caller: i wanted to talk to the border. i love the guy from washington state who says canadians are stealing our jobs. host: canadian comedians is what

he was worried about. i had not heard that before. caller: me neither. i live walking distance from the mexican border. i am tickled how people from iowa or michigan or new hampshire are so concerned about what is going on in my neighborhood. whoever tells you the border is wide open is lying to you. lying to you. i live here, i used to take my dogs to swim in the rio, you cannot do that anymore. the border has become so militarized. i used to go watch the migratory birds and take pictures. you cannot do that anymore. you can but you will be questioned and have your id run or your car searched. we have these checkpoints going out of vanhorn -- i do not know of any other state that would

allow that. you have to stand in line. that is absurd. let me tell you this. the border fence is not keeping people out. it is trapping people in. it is destructive to our ecosystem. host: on a monthly or weekly basis how often are you crossing the border and going to mexico and coming back? caller: i don't cross the border. host: you don't go to shop or visit? caller: no. it is too much of a pain. i will go down there frequently. all eyes are on you when you go down to the rio. the border patrol is doing their job, they are friendly people,

they are helpful, they are funny. at least here in el paso they are. it is not good for us. host: this is holly in tampa, florida. republican. holly is not there. we will go to wisconsin. independent. good morning. caller: i want to talk about what congress needs to do before the end of the year. the founding fathers called for uniform bankruptcy laws and the constitution. student loans have been uniquely stripped of this constitutional right and now we see the results. the price of college has gone through the roof. even before the pandemic 85% of all student loan borrowers were underwater, either unable to pay

at all, or they were paying and paying for their balance was going up, not down. this is a catastrophically failed money system. it proves the wisdom of the founders. there are two bills in the house and senate, bipartisan, where bills could be passed tomorrow. josh hawley, dick durbin in the senate are the sponsors. there is no good reason these bill should not be passed. the democrats have been promising to return bankruptcy to student loans for decades. they betrayed us in 2008 and god for bid they betray us again this session. there's a lot riding on this. around 38 million distressed people in the country who vote and who are not only democrats but are about half-and-half

between republicans and democrats. host: hr 9110, the student borrower relief act of 2022, sponsored by jerry nadler, you are able to rattle those operate quickly. how long have you been following this issue? are you involved in this area of work? caller: i run a group called studentloanjustice.org and we've been trying to get bankruptcy record -- bankruptcy return to this debt for the entire time. it has been 18 long years and now is the time for congress to act. host: how did you get into that work? caller: through my own personal experience and my professional experience in the banking industry. something has gone horribly awry with the student loan system in this country. it has become something the founding fathers and the congress of 1965 who designed the loan program to be free of interest, they never saw

anything like this happening. it is time to make this right. host: where these stories come from? i pulled up your website. stephanie borrowed $20,000, repay $26,000, still owes $20,000, where you get these stories and these numbers? caller: most of those stories are far more dramatic. we have people, then she borrowed 26,000, she has repaid 100,000, she is $132,000. that is a predatory lending system. those are our numbers. they are willing to be inter vivos -- they're willing to be interviewed. host: student loan justice.org. thank for the call this morning. next is rape, republican, good morning -- next is ray, republican, good morning. caller:'s inflation figures year

over year, and if so the year before that it was 1.4%, so is that 22.4% we have already lost of our money and this year we have another 2%? is that 31.4% of a dollar that is gone forever? is that what we are saying? all of our savings for all of our lives we have built? have we already lost over 20%? host: before we get too lost in the numbers, what does that mean in reality for you in lexington, kentucky? what has inflation meant for you? caller: you have to submit to whatever the economy prices and purchases allow you. you cannot go out and buy things you want. you have to worry more about the future as far as how far your money goes.

somebody stole my body, they stole the right to my privacy of my body by stealing my money. how can women get the right to their body and i do not have the right to my body? i cannot store up treasures and use them in the old age. host: this is douglas in fairfax, south dakota. democrat. are you with us? caller: good morning. your last guest, i think he is on top of the nail in actuality. he kept saying 21. i have an ira account and my interest started going up in march 2020 and started dropping from 1.3% to where it is now, .3%. it started back in trump. we are $31 trillion in the hole,

each taxpayer owes around $200,000? how many of you can pay your share? like money grows on trees. republicans and democrats need to come to reality. i believe in social security. my parents both died before i was 16 and i got my dad social security. my grandmother born in 1900 came in and we made it and i ended up with two years school and i've been paying taxes every year. republicans, paul ryan, all he talked about was privatizing social security and eliminating social security has been on the republican agenda and helping those who really need help. you can contribute and stick your hand out because of basic laziness you are one of the lowest levels of humans,.

-- the lowest levels of human scum. did you believe trump when he said his inauguration crowd was larger than obama's? sorry to say. biden is also as bad when he says he is lowering the deficit. i do not believe either one of them too far. the budget is coming up. we the people should penalize politicians. each day they go past deadlines. i bet they would get a budget in time. have a good day and everybody take care. host: douglas in south dakota. douglas, to your statement about debt per taxpayer, the current u.s. national debt is $31 trillion and counting. that comes out to 200 $47,882 per taxpayer -- that comes out

to 200 $47,882 per taxpayer -- u.s. debt clock.org will give you a running tally of the national debt, of the budget deficit, they break it down in a lot of different ways. this is joseph, california, independent. good morning. caller: i was going to talk about the sophia rate and every -- the sofi rate and everything else. after listening what i think should happen is c-span should spend a lot more money and you should buy a really nice suit. host: to gilda in houston, texas. a republican. caller: i am calling in response to the woman from el paso who claimed the border was secure and defense was silly. apparently she is like the blind man in the elephant because she is not listening to the ranchers

who live on the border where there are no checkpoints who are being overrun by people who stormed their fences, they use their water and their utilities and leave trash everywhere, they break into their houses. there are ranchers on the border who can no longer stay there because of the mass of people that are coming across from mexico. it is not just people from mexico doing it, it is people all over the world crossing into the country without any sort of regulation or control, and the woman in el paso does not know what she is talking about. host: that is gilda in houston. this is william in englewood, new jersey. democrat. caller: i think the lady who just spoke has the issue we all had with the border. i think the real reason, what we have to do is change the fact that people want to come here. you change two things. our involvement in china.

those factors in south america and mexico. they would be much smarter -- not only smarter but much better than putting up a fence. those people do not come here. they live in beautiful places. almost none of them want to leave their homes to come here. china, which does not like us, make our neighbors happy by putting factories and the stuff they make in those areas, i think all of us would be better off. this is something we could do overnight. the second we start putting up factories in other countries we create jobs for them to stay there. that is my opinion. thank you. host: david is in akron, ohio. independent. good morning. caller: i keep hearing people say the democrats do this or

republicans do that. politicians do not run the country. the people who got them elected run the country and the people who got them elected is the dark money behind the scenes. one of the worst things that ever happened. there was already money corruption but the citizens united case that i think was a 5-4 vote with justice kennedy, i think he was the fifth vote that allowed dark money to come in. these talk shows, the reason 70 people believe the big lie about the election is there is people being made -- the reason so many people believe the big lie about the election is there is people being paid, the money behind the politicians constantly gives them propaganda. we the people need to rise up and say we have to get money out of politics. both sides are corrupt. the only people i trust are

people who will not accept campaign contributions from big money. those are the people that are there to serve us and serve their communities. that is what i wanted to say host: you ever go to opensecrets.org. caller: that is something i will write down. host: it does a lot to look at money in politics and to try to shine a light on that dark money and you can search it in a bunch of different ways. a great resource. one of their stories from the 2022 elections, how republicans and democrats spent their money, great database, great website. we have plenty of interviews with their folks who go on this program over the years. opensecrets.org if you want to check that out. caller: real quick, one other quick comment. donald trump did not drain the swamp, he is the swamp. the reason i am an independent

is because i think both parties are knee-deep in dark money. there are more people who do not take money are democrats, but the corporate democrats are almost as bad for me is the dark money republicans. that is what i wanted to say. i love the country, but i am a main street patriot, not a wall street patriot. there is a big difference. host: that is david in akron, ohio. a little bit more from open secrets. charts on how republicans and democrats spent their money in the 2022 election. you can see the lion share of spending went to media, that is advertisements, that is campaign ads, fundraising is a big place to spend the money, to raise more money. administrative costs and campaign expenses, strategy and research, wages and salary for staff members, a breakdown of

how all of that money, over $4 billion being tracked through the end of september, how it was spent by the various campaigns, according to their campaign records. james in kentucky, republican. good morning. caller: good morning and how are you doing? first of all, there are so many topics to ponder over. the whole country is falling apart. with everything going on. i guess i'm going to have to say for the student loan thing, no, they should not have their student loans paid. they should pay it back themselves. they did a poll on these young people. the only thing they were worried about was marijuana and having their student loans paid off. when they voted for biden they cost the whole country a lot of money. high gas prices, unsecure

borders, 401(k)s, have people look to their 401(k)s lately? we are losing everything we work hard to get? do they deserve anything? no they don't. they have to work for it. the person who called in about the border. i've been down there, the border is being overran. that is all i have to say. i wish i could go on but i know i do not have the time. host: when did you go to the border and where did you go? caller: i went down to el paso to visit a friend. the only thing they are doing is creating more homelessness. homeless were all over the streets, there is no place to put them, there is no low income housing. low income housing creates ghettos. i do not know if you understand that. i know some people do. we need to bring people in. we have to do it in a legal

manner. they had the house, they had the senate, they got the presidency. why didn't they put an amendment to make it easy, why didn't they do something with immigration? they want to keep on -- i am all for bringing people in but you have to do it in a legal manner. host: james in kentucky. back to texas, this is woodland, texas, john, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. i am a 68-year-old 10th generation american, fifth-generation texan. there is no problem on the border. they are shipping these people back out as soon as they come in. republicans need to stop listening to fox news. all they do is spread false information about what is going on at the border.

there is no problem. they are sending them back immediately. stop talking about how much money it is costing. they are sending the people right back. stop listening to right-wing terrorism. host: mary in tampa, florida. independent. good morning. caller: i was listening to the english gentleman speaking earlier about the budget, and in my opinion i feel we should get more of the artificial intelligence involved in balancing the budget. the united states is so rich in technological progress, let's put more of it to use, especially with the budget. $31 trillion debt is out of bounds for a human to handle. i think artificial intelligence would be the solution to get that involved to balance our budget.

host: that is mary in florida. about 10 minutes left in our program today. any public-policy or clinical issue you want to talk about. we have phone lines for republicans, democrats, and independents. we will put the numbers on our screen as we hear from christina in the land of lincoln, democrat. good morning. caller: my comment is on regular people. people who sit around complaining about the prices of everything. i did not think anyone could ever live like my grandmother and my mother did back when there was rationing. if the price of milk goes up, use less. you complain about the prices of things and then you buy your 12-year-old grandchild in $800 smart phone. who is hurting? i believe in rationing and being

frugal. i cannot fix the big problems in washington. i do not have the answers to that. in general day-to-day life, we need to live more frugally. host: are there things you currently ration or you have to ration recently? caller: when i find the price of milk goes up, i consume less milk. heating has gone up, i sitting here with a sweater and a hat on , i've my temperature set at 66 degrees in the house. i live in southern illinois, we have cold coming in now but it is not too cold. we need to ration and watch what we spend our money on. those are wasteful items that are not necessary for our day-to-day, especially for a 12-year-old to get an $800 smart phone. it is ridiculous.

host: got your point. dave in virginia. good morning. you are next. caller: i would like to talk about the way we handled this pandemic. somebody was talking about dark money, i think like the drug money that is going around is like dark money. there is a doctor in southern california who was supposed to show at the ron johnson hearings when they covered this topic. all of the other doctors, much credentialed doctors are talking about it, how many patients he has cured with drugs that are demonized because big pharma and the people at nih create royalties on these vaccines and cannot make any money off of the drugs. drugs like hydroxychloroquine. up to 10,000 people he treated if he got to them within seven

days of infection they got better. he tried to tell that to the fda and he never even got a response. host: did you end up taking the covid vaccine? caller: i never did. i had in-laws that died after getting the covid vaccine. my brother-in-law developed a blood clot and winded for hospital, they would not let him in. they said come back when you had trouble breathing. he died of a heart attack. a lot of people are dying by the vaccine. it is a violation of the nuremberg code to do what they do and mandating the vaccine. they cannot get this vaccine approved except on emergency basis. host: this is richard in south carolina. independent. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you? i think everybody i have

listened to this morning has a grievance which is absolutely justified whatever direction they are coming from. i do not think anybody asks the question of why is america where it is right now? i like to say that america right now is too fat and happy. we have progressed, we are a strong nation, but everybody wants their own piece of the pie, and we do not want to lose what we think we have, so we're all going to do silly things. let me use the football analogy. i think making it correct that college football players can now make hundreds of thousands of dollars on their faces because they play for a certain college seems to minimize the game. why we want to watch boston college play football.

i am watching for the team, not for the star. i think the girl now making $2 million in gymnastics because she is a great looking lady, i think the fact we are doing that and finding that acceptable takes away from the sport itself. nobody seems to care about that. i think we are not looking as to why everybody has such divergent views on what is happening across the country. you have to look deeper. that is my comment. host: is there anything in the public realm right now you think most people can agree on? caller: i think that is a tough one. no. i do not think so. you asked me a question i do not know how to answer right now. i think we all agree we have a problem. we do not know how to solve it

and we certainly have a lack of leadership that is explaining these things. they are all opinionated. we do not have the ability to have a leader, our leadership explain things to us in a way we can understand. that is my comment. host: we will stay in the palmetto state, johnny in columbia, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. i was calling in reference to your guest you had on the show earlier today. it seemed like he was placing a lot of blame on the current administration, president biden. i was wondering what his political affiliation was because it seems like he pointed out over and over issues that the biden administration was causing but he never offered -- i did not hear one solution. i had to change channels five times because i never heard a

solution to what the current problem is. he just pointed out that the biden administration, when it came to the imf, he worked with the imf, but he never said what his accomplishments was. i'm trying to figure out what was his point. he just placed the blame on one person, that is president biden. host: that is johnny in south carolina. ray in pleasant view, republican, good morning. caller: the gentleman that said there is not a problem on the border, come on. everybody knows that is a problem. the other thing, the press secretary, the present press secretary said there is no problem on the border. there is no way in the world a person with half a brain cannot

see that. it all happened under biden, and until we get this man and these people out of office, this country is in bad shape. thank you. host: this is jerome in california. line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. i am listening to all of your callers and they are correct. the problem at the border, we created. if we did not allow employers to hire illegal immigrants, they would not be coming to the border. it is a created problem. the comment about the politicians, they are correct. whoever puts money in my pocket, i am voting their way. i give my constituents the border, i give them lpt, every

side, i keep them upset and i can still put money in my pocket and do with the economist people want to do. capitalism requires regulation. how many mom-and-pop people complain about regulations? we are paying high gas because of regulations. we have a lot of issues. most of them are self-created. we had covid. the red states you saw all the hispanic working getting covid. where did they get to north dakota from? we open our borders because we allow people in the united states to hire illegal immigrants. host: time for one more call.

annie in sugar grove, north carolina. independent. good morning. caller: last but not least. the woman that talked about rations, i found my notes from months ago. my mother is 92 and grew up in world war ii. sugar, you've got half a pound per person per week. eight items at the grocery, there you go, there is your sugar for one person in your family. coffee, you got one pound every five weeks because the germans were bombing the brazil boats that bought the coffee beans. dog food no longer in cans, it was switched to dehydrated because they need the metal. the other comment -- host: these are notes your mother or grandmother jotted down during the war? caller: i wrote them down or stop i talked to my mom. she was so poor, she was born in

arkansas, when she was seven she and her older brother, my uncle joe, lived with cousins in kansas for two years because her family could not feed the six children. they had cal, chickens, pigs. the rationing was real life or my mother. the other thing i wanted to say about immigration is -- i worked in the federal government -- i worked to the u.s. attorney's office for 21 and a half years. that is the law on the books to prosecute the owners of these corporations that hire illegal immigrants. they hire them because they can pay them awful wages, they can treat them like less than human and they know these workers will not report anything. until -- i watched it in my line of work. workers would be arrested at extract companies that make flavoring. the owners were not. they kept making money.

until this country does something like that, serious, it is never going to stop. thank you for your time. i appreciate it. host: our last caller. we will of course be back tomorrow morning at 7:00 eastern. 4:00 pacific. in the meantime, have a great friday. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2022] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ♪ >> fridays at 8:00 p.m. eastern c-span brings you afterwards from book tv, a program where nonfiction authors are interviewed by journalists, legislators and more on their

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