>> saturday morning, orion returns to earth. watch live cerage beginning at 11:00 a.m. eastern on c-span, online at c-span.org. or with our free video app. congress is back on sunday and lawmakers face the deadline to fund the government. cuent money runs out on friday midnight. more work on the senate and

judicial nominations. live coverage on c-span beginng at 3:00 p.m. eastern on c-span two. you can also watch on our free video app c-span now. or online at c-span.org.

>> please welcome dr. mark david hall. [applause] >> thanks to the family research council for hosting this event. i would have done it anywhere,

but i was thrilled when i heard it was going to be at cornerstone chapel. my brother-in-law and sister-in-law warships here. i am always blessed by the musical worship. i love your pastor is preaching. you have a great church. if you look at the history of the term christian nationalists, prior to 2006, nobody was using it. we should be clear about this. christians were not running around calling themselves christian nationalists. they were not saying we need to advocate for christian nationalists. christian nationalism came about in 2006 as a term of criticism, written by people who were critical of what they described as a toxic mix. of americans who wanted to

conflate god and country. they are racist, sexist. that is christian nationalism. these early books, few written by academics, worked for places like the freedom from religion organization. many of them attribute christian nationalism to the work of an obscure theologian who no one has heard of. they like him because he says the kingdom of god will advance and societies will become christian and adoptive biblical law and in the societies, homosexuals will be put to death , men will dominate the church

and the state, juvenile delinquents will be put to death. that makes it sound very scary, even for christians. one problem is nobody follows this. this is a flavor of argument. 2006 began a trio of books that came out. things escalated with the january 6, 2021 attack on the u.s. capitol building. i was flying back from a speaking engagement and it got a message from a reporter who wanted a comment on the

christian image is among the capitol. i said send me some. she sent me five images. three of them were 1.5 miles from the u.s. capitol. there was a rally that day back christians came together to pray to overturn the election, as is their right. they were not necessarily among the rioters. at the actual riot, you have a pine state flag, which says an appeal to god. they could have brought it because it is a revolutionary flight. the only christian photo they had from the riot was a guy holding the bible in front of him. i said to the reporter you might want to be careful with this

narrative. she ignored me and the headline the next day was christian nationalists have attacked the u.s. capitol building. if you look at the pictures what you will see is a sea of american flags, crazy biking dude. there were certainly some christians there who thought they were acting as god would have them act. they were not. let's be crystal clear about that. attacking anything is never acceptable. since january 6, and before that, some more serious books came out by academics. i take these to be scholars acting in good faith, attempting

to measure the phenomenon of christian nationalism. i would like to think it is a tiny number in rural parts of the country, i won't say what part because i do not want to insult any particular region. they came up with the measure. that 52% of americans are fully supportive or partially supportive of this horrible toxic stew that we call christian nationalism. this is a scary finding. we may be in trouble. fortunately, there measures are fundamentally flawed.

the question they utilized involve things like should really just memorials be permitted on public land? or should they be torn down? should the ohio holocaust will be permitted to have a star of david? or should this be prohibited? are you in favor of the strict separation of church and state? should prayers be allowed in public schools? it is a very bad set of measures to measure this horrible toxic stew that we call christian nationalism. there are a few lines throughout the book that give away the biases. if you are pro-life, you are concerned merely with controlling women's bodies. i wonder if the women in here who are pro-life know this. i think you can be the most

pro-choice american and still understand that pro-lifers are concerned with protecting human life. you might think they are wrong, but to accuse them of simply being interested in controlling women's bodies is just wrong. or they say christian nationalists are attempting to define religious liberty is something more than the freedom of worship. this is news to me as a student of the first amendment. the first amendment has always meant something more than freedom to worship. we have the freedom to act. if you try to defined a more robust understanding of religious liberty, you are a victim.

-- a big it. -- a bigot. i think these measures are bad. there were a couple of sociologists that have come up with a recent article which has a much more reasonable -- i think christian nationalism is a thing. i assure you it is not this horrible mix that is described by critics of christian nationalism. it does exist and it is embraced by maybe 20% of the american population. recently, christians have started coming out and talking about the label. marjorie taylor greene is one.

they are writing books saying we should embrace christian nationalism. let's reclaim christian nationalism. i understand what they mean. they are not advocating for racism, sexism. there advocating for the importance of culture. i think this is a very imprudent move. christian nationalism is a term invented by critics. we should not embrace it. we should just simply identify ourselves as christians. we have an application to be involved in politics, to be involved in the city, to fight for justice, liberty and freedom for all. we cannot embrace this term of christian nationalism, it is just imprudent. it is handing victory to our

critics. thank you very much. [applause] >> thank you, dr. hall. you can take out your phone if you would like and we are going to have a poll question. you will see a qr code on the screen and you can take a picture of it. if we can pull that up on the screen. take a snapshot of that with your phone and that will bring up the link and you can take the poll question. if anybody is having trouble, we have a group of five-year-olds in the back who can help you use your smartphone. can we bring the poll question up on the screen? here it is. what is christian nationalism?

it is not what the left says what it is. it is a creation of the media, an attempt to intimidate christians who care about their country. go ahead and take that poll question. we will get the results and share those with you. those online, go ahead and take that poll question. to share with us about how the term christian nationalism is being used, is one of the most accomplished men who probably never heard of. stephen codling is that an attorney and a decorated intelligence officer. in september of 2001, he was mobilized from his private sector career and assigned to the director of intelligence with the joint chiefs of staff as a major in the army reserve. he was assigned to serve in

intelligence and strategic communications. he has been recognized as the pentagon's leading expert on islamic laws it relates to national security. today, he is principal of unconstrained analytics, a 50 13 c dedicated to analysis of evidence unconstrained by preconceptions and biases. i will repeat that. he is dedicated to the analysis of the evidence unconstrained by preconceptions. it sounds like the perfect guy to impact for us how words and labels are being used for a particular end. please welcome him. [applause] >> thank you very much.

it is a pleasure to be here. i was in louie gohmert's office and he has a thing that memorializes the treaty between america and britain. the witness of the document was the holy spirit. the question people have to ask themselves, god and country? when did that stepien the rule? -- stop being the rule? today, we take a look at issues from a political warfare perspective. we are not going to look at it theologically because it is not my area at all. but we are going to say, how would we define it? political warfare is the model.

that is the dominant form that occupies the united states right now. what i want to point out is that one of the things that exists, if you read the books at colleges about critical race theory, you read too much. what we want to do is get people to understand it is much more simple. what is intersectionality? bet is to take a value that is held in a culture and they are going to make up a phony term. then they will give the term every negative attribute they can come up with. so patriotic christians have now become christian nationalists and we are defined negatively.

it is as simple as that. they create these intersectional lines of operation. black lives matter. what does that do? it attacks on race. lgbt says we demand you accept our metaphysical claim of gender. that is what this is all about. it is about intimidating people. they do not care they get their fellow travelers to say lgbtq and let their children go to a litter box in the school. what i am going to do is instead of over engineering this, i am going to take things they have said. i want you to know how they

define it in their own words. what i am going to do is i am going to go through the slides. they say what they think so you do not have to assess what they are saying. they are broadcasting it openly through twitter and in the media. they are so confident that they are in charge they are engaging in open communication. they are not worried because they are confident that they -- you are not going to know what they meant.

i am going to let you read this. it has to do with january 6. and now we will move to the next one. it attacks american christians for being american christians. for being politically active. it is an attack on identity. lgbt says you are not allowed to call yourself a woman if you are a woman or man if you are a man. they destroy your ability to call yourself a person. and that is the objective. christian nationalism is also designed to synchronize with the new york times 1619 project.

you no longer have to take classes to find out what american history is anymore. that is an outcome. whether directly or indirectly, the christian nationalism narrative is designed to identify all american institutions as racist. these are their own words. the narrative is delegitimizing along christian lines. mr. roberts has powerful international clients. he likens american christians to uplifting class of money scammers.

if i am going too fast, just say. the goal is to see what they are sane in their own words. the suggestion christian to defend themselves, their values and their way of life is unchristian for that reason. suggestion that christians do not have a right to defend themselves and their way of life. implying maybe that republican leadership is just as anxious and alienated from its own base as is the left. after all, it appears to have lincoln project guidance. we have to break this graphic in two. here he is with the lincoln project.

and not just a little support from the white house. the people who created the american republic are america's greatest threat. precisely because they do not want to make it a democratic, marxist republic. america's christian roots are being reduced to mythologies. the first step in delegitimizing a people's history. remember, the total separation from you from your own identity. gas lighting the values of american christians based on assumptions that are turned into facts and declared erroneous. watch the language perceived --

one perceives that they do this but the rest of the sentence is perceived as a fact to attack you. appears to be on board from traditional christian ideals. do you see these are really gas lighting campaigns? there is nothing to them. accusations based on manufactured perceptions. they will do anything to win. clearly, americans christians are dangerously untethered. a clear indicator of downstream terrorism. this feeds into the narrative. this is how the violent extremism narrative will come into play. it is designed to be used against you. simply paranoid and undone.

that is you, is it not? take a look at yourself. when christians mobilize politically, it is describes in covert and cons -- terms. again, gas lighting. beneath every christian nationalist, is a racist seeking to get revenge. i had to break this in two. the message is about a child who wants to grow and shoot people. i think it is important for you to get a sense of how these people communicate this in their own words. you can easily say i was only

talking about perceptions. i would like to thank everybody for your time. i hope this was helpful. [applause] >> thank you. i know that you are thinking up some questions so go ahead and break those questions down. i will give you means by which you can ask those questions when we get into our panel discussions. i want to give you the results of our poll question thus far. what is christian nationalism? 74% say it is all of the above. 19% an attempt to intimidate christians who care about their country. 3% not certain. 3% said it is a creation of the media.

and just a moment, i will introduce our next speaker. why is this happening? there is an outcome they want. i want to challenge you to take the pray, vote, stand pledge to pray for our nation, the upcoming election, pledged to vote your biblical values no matter what people say, no matter what they put on social media, no matter what label they assign to it, that you will stand for truth. i want you to put that slide back up there. all you need to do is text the word pledge. take the pledge to pray, vote, stand. for those of you joining us online, you can do the same. pledge to pray for our nation.

vote your biblical values and stand for biblical truth. the family research council is blessed to have an incredible board of directors, led by our chairwoman michele bachmann. she is a former congresswoman and presidential candidate. she is a genuine prayer warrior, committed to interceding for our nation. last year, she took on a new assignment as the dean at regent university. we are grateful for the opportunity to partner tonight with the regent university for this special town hall event. regent university is an incredible education institution. i am thankful that they are dedicated to pursuing clarity and intellectual honesty.

to help shine the light on the political intentions behind the term christian nationalism, please welcome to the stage, michelle bachmann. [applause] fmr. rep. bachmann: thank you. thank you so much for opening up this beautiful church that reminds me of an aspen ski lodge. i want to also thank mark davis hall who gave beautiful remarks. and also my very good friend, stephen. he understands beneath the surface because he looks at people and what they say about issues. the reason we are here tonight is because some of us had

noticed there was something happening in the culture and it was aimed at all of you. it was aimed at the church. it was aimed at pastors. it was aimed at the church because the church has been doing something right. believers have been doing something right. the pastor of this church has taken on the whole counsel of god freely and bravely from the pulpit. [applause] we want to see more of that. and that means the issues of the day in our own culture, whatever culture we live in, the bible has something to say about every issue. this church has not been afraid, together with other pastors at other churches, they have been

trying to preach what the word of god says. this is a good thing. gassy many pastors have been -- too many pastors have been frightened into silence. when we do that, when the church goes silent, bad things happen. bad things happened in the 1930's when the church in europe went silent. when back church went silent, it took the young theologian, who saw what was happening in his own nation in germany and she had to stand up within the lutheran church and stand for what is true and against the scapegoating that was coming against one particular group of people, the jewish people in

germany. ultimately, he paid for his advocacy with his life. which he happily did. happily i say because he wanted to be obedient before god. because he saw in his culture, he gave some of the most astounding messages to the clergy, telling them do not go silent. wake up. otherwise bad things are going to happen in germany and in europe. as we all know, the lights went out in europe. europe has never been the same since world war i and world war ii because the church went silent. it is highly consequential when the word of god is pervasive in the nation. that nation is [indiscernible]

when the people know, my people perish from lack of knowledge. what does a godly church do? they form the faithful and they inspire the faithful to bring up biblical values into their lives , into their businesses, into their communities and that is how a nation can be a nation best serves the lord. because it understands the lord. it is not just behind these beautiful church doors. it is not meant for just these beautiful church doors. the values of the church are meant for the community, the nation, the public, for those who do not get understand that there is a loving god who has a plan for every person on this planet.

that is why the church preaches. and we have had so many wonderful churches. we had pastors and churches that woke up profoundly prior to the 2016 election. and they were preaching faithfully about the issue of the value of the unborn. since the roe v. wade decision, the church understood what the bible said, that we are made in the image of holy god. people came informed and they understood and they voted liberal goal -- biblical values. ultimately, presidents were elected who appointed supreme court justices, who now issued a decree that the roe v. wade

decision after 50 years would be overturned. so now that decision goes to the 50 states. now it is no longer roe v. wade in the nation. [applause] that came about through prayer and because of faithful pastors who were preaching. we were very effective. i want to put up the first light. so effective were christians in going to the polls, that people turned out in the 2016 election. they were very sharp hillary clinton. 91% of people who were spiritually active turned out and they gave a chance to donald trump in that election, primarily because of the supreme court appointments.

in 2016, 60% of the general public turned out. 91% or 9% of the american population got out and voted. we have the result of overturning roe v. wade this last year because of that election. in 2020, we saw again those who were spiritually active, governmentally engaged, turned out. 97 percent voted for donald trump. his vote totals went up with those who were spiritually active and governmentally engaged. when that happened in 2016, there was a decision made by the

progressive left that this would never happen again. they started this effort to come against those base were thwarting their plans to turn this nation into something more akin to communism. they are trying to fundamentally transform the united states and throw out the traditional history of who we are. they are very intentional about this. this is very much a plan. they see that what is standing between them and victory is the church. the church and faithful pastors and believers who take biblical values into the voting drama -- booths. i want to show you a video clip. [video clip] >> too much of what is happening in our country today is not normal. donald trump and the maga

republicans demonstrate an extremism. i want to be very clear up front, not every republican are maga republicans. not everyone embraces their extreme ideology. i have been able to work with these mainstream republicans. but there is no question that the republican today is dominated and intimidated by donald trump and the maga republicans. that is a threat to this country. fmr. rep. bachmann: this was done for the purpose of intimidation. the stage lighting and the marines that are stationed there. it wasn't done to show intimidation, to use the word extremism.

saying that we do not think it is good for the nation. very bizarre, but we are the ones who are called extremists. next click. [video clip] >> met the republicans do not respect the constitution. they do not recognize the will of the people. they refuse to accept the results of the election. they are working right now to get power to decide elections in america to partisans and cronies and election deniers. to undermine democracy itself. they are determined to take this country backwards. backwards to an america where there is no right to choose, no right to privacy, no right to contraception, no right to marry who you love. they fan the flames of political

violence that are a threat to our personal rights, to the pursuit of justice, to the rule of law, to the very soul of this country. fmr. rep. bachmann: if you stand for natural marriage, you are an extremist. if you stand for biological truth, you are an extremist to the president. if you stand for the rights of the unborn, you are an extremist to the president. they are trying to exchange what extremism is and make those of us who believe in biblical values the extremists. one more clip. [video clip] >> they are clear and present danger to our democracy. the threat to american democracy is real. we are not bystanders in this

ongoing attack in democracy. there are far more americans from every background and belief who reject the extreme maga ideology. fmr. rep. bachmann: he is creating people that he calls maga republicans, but the other people are using the term christian nationalism. that if the epicenter of the people that they want everybody else to look at and scapegoat as a bad guy, extremists. those who are standing up for biblical values. the rubber is meeting the road because these people have all the reins of power in washington dc and they want to continue

holding onto that power. look at the rates that have happened in the last few weeks. our fbi has been unleashed by the department of justice on people who have been praying at abortion clinics and singing and -- at abortion clinics. and the fbi shows up with the body armor, and pointing guns and little kids. this is for intimidation. that is why we have to wake up in the church and realize we cannot allow ourselves to be intimidated in this moment of time. [applause] if you put up the next slide, please. there is a brand-new book i read this weekend. i recommend this for every

pastor to read this book. a letter to the american church. the author is pleading with pastors, please do not go silent. please speak out. thank god cornerstone chapel is one of those churches. we need to pray there are more like that. this is a wonderful book. for those pastors who would like to be able to preach on these topics but do not know how, this book is meant for pastors to be well versed on what the scriptures say about the issues of the day. i want to thank this church and i look forward to our conversation. thank you so much. [applause] >> thank you, michelle. any questions?

that is why we are here. it is a town hall meeting. how many will make a commitment that i will not be intimidated? [applause] i will not shrink back into the silence. i will not hide in the shadows. i will boldly speak and stand on the truth. i want you to encourage to pray, vote, stand. those of you who are joining us from across the country, i challenge you as well to take the pledge to pray, vote, and stand. i am going to ask all of our speakers to join me on the stage for our panel discussion. please put up the qr code on the screen. you can join me on the screen, it is ok.

i think they are afraid we are going to play more videos of the president. we will be taking your questions here as we enter into our time of discussion. i am going to begin. i think i must've done something wrong. i am over here by myself. but that is ok. i am to everybody's right, so that is appropriate. good one. i am going to start with pastor gary. we have heard from the academics , how this term is being used. let's talk now about, as followers of jesus christ, as those who believe the bible is a guidebook for life, how should

we as christians be responding? should we avoid conflict and go away like they would like us to? >> what is so tragic about this is we are talking about terminology today. to be patriotic, they are conflating with this term that now makes everybody who just wants to be a christian who wants to vote your values appear to be extreme and appear to be somebody who is so far right that you should not have a voice. as christians, we need to know who we are in christ. we need to stand in that identity in christ. we need to continue to be people who espouse the principles of god's word. we have to get more tenderhearted and thick-skinned because people are going to try to intimidate you, they're going

to try to accuse you. we have to keep the focus and remember we are serving the lord and what people say, let them say it. we want to ultimately glorify him. >> can just add one thing? there is a clip that michelle did not play that struck me because i watched it live when the president gave the best speech. she talked about the soul of america. he mentioned the soul of america. reminded me -- it reminded me of heckler talking about the soul of germany. -- hitler talking about the soul of germany. he talked about with him in

charge, those subsidies would stay intact. we are concerned about the soul of germany. that is when heckler -- hitler said i will take care of the soul of germany. it is the responsibility of the church of jesus christ to take care of the soul of america in the sense that we have the gospel which is the only good news that heals the soul of america or any country. [applause] i want to go to you for a moment, stephen. michelle was talking about the church played a very influential role in the elections because we gathered together. when you have pastors who preach about the issues, christians act

on that. but we see something happening, it is not just the left that is marginalizing or using these labels. it is coming from the media as well. there is a effort to cut off national discussion from certain segments of society. how do we deal with that and what is their ultimate objective? >> i think one of the things we are trying to say is it is not random. it is part of semantic marxism. discourse theory has a large explanation, but basically, it means we get up and stay what we want. we get to turn off the microphone on you. we have to organize to push back the attack.

michelle, i think it was right before president biden talked about maga conservators are the most dangerous threat. i think the chair of the january 6 committee had her dad said the same thing. within a week, we saw the rate at mar-a-lago. we are looking at something a little more big than just the left. >> michelle, do you have thoughts on that? >> i want to add to what steve was saying. i was actually on the capitol in january 6. we were praying that day. it was probably one of the happiest days. it was like a picnic, people

were so happy. it was not angry, it was not violent. i remember distinctly thinking that this was planned come out this was insurgents. this is in real time. we were just praying for peace. we were just there praying for the nation. i distinctly remember thinking this was a branding exercise. we just had a very popular president get more votes in 2020 then he got in 2016. people went out and voted and his agenda was wildly popular. gasoline was $1.89. that was pretty popular. this was a rebranding exercise

to lab will -- labeled the president an insurrectionist. that is what i was hearing from the president in best speech of the bear. this was continuing. that is how you knew january 6 was not random. this was intentional. we are seeing is still today. we need to know from this tonight, this is going to continue. they are not going to give up. when a prior president said we are going to fundamentally transform the united states of america, they meant it. it was not a political phrase. what they see standing between their goal to turn this country into a completely different nation is believers. because we will stand for

something. something that is more important than politics. that is what the bible says. we will stand for biblical values no matter what. [applause] >> i am going to go to some of our questions. dr. hall, i want to make a confession of my activity in january the sixth. i was in the office with mike pompeo with a group of pastors and we were praying for the nation. with that fit the definition of what the left is calling christian nationalism today? >> it might fit some definitions. this is a good thing to distinguish. i love what michelle said. we have an obligation to bring our faith into the public square.

it starts with being typically moral ourselves. it starts with sharing the gospel. it starts with prayer. what it does not involve is having with federal government force people to become christians. that is what the critics of christian nationalism would say christian nationalist want. i am sure you could find some out there who would want to punish people who do not follow christianity, but they are precious few. they are stretching the term to suggest that anybody bringing faith into the public square is advocating for christian nationalism. it is certainly how they are using.

pastor gary, get ready. most of its questions are for you. the first one is, why are you not wearing a tie? >> first of all, michelle is not either. we still distinguish between the sexes here. >> how do we challenge pastors who we observe our shrinking back from important and polarizing social issues? i get this question often, sadly. i do not know how to lovingly do that. i am not so sure jesus was loving what he [indiscernible] >> he might have said it with a smile. >> i think it is time they need

to get called out. it is going to take some courageous people to call them out. if you have a pastor and you have prayed for him, then you talk with him, and if they continue to avoid the issues of our day in terms of applying scripture, then you need to find a church that preaches the whole counsel of god. >> but also, they can buy the book and buy the audible version of a. >> he is coming this week. we are trying to work out a date in december. >> it is such a good book for pastors. >> i am going to throw this one out there for any of our panelists. how do we handle our adult children who are so swayed by

this welcome agenda? -- woke agenda? >> i have five kids and none of them are swayed by the woke agenda. they started in the cradle. >> trained them up when they are young. a world view is form between 13 months and 13 years. as parents we need to be intentional about teaching our children biblical truths. why do you think the left once early childhood education? they want to give them this liberal ideology that would steer them away from truth so we have to be intentional about that. and not be afraid to have these conversations with our children. i am more concerned about my

children's eternal destination than i am about their current pleasure and their desire to feel comfortable in this world. we need to be challenge in our children just like we would challenge our pastors to live by and speak the truth. if i am called a christian nationalist, how should i respond? i think a good approach would be to say what do you mean by christian nationalist? if someone is accusing you of that they might say things like that means you are a racist, you are sexist, you are militarist. you could say what evidence do you have that i am any of those things, what actions have i done, what words have i said that would give you reason to believe i am any of these things. hopefully it will fall apart and it might come back you are a christian who brings your faith into the public square, you argue for the protection of innocent human life and you could say yes it's absolutely

true, i am a christian who argues for moral policies. let me add this it is funny, even the critics of christian nationalism do not say no one can bring their faith into the public square, they explicitly praise the civil rights movement and the civil rights leaders. martin luther king junior. if you bring your faith into the public square, to argue for something the left likes and in this case the right should like as well, civil rights. that is appropriate. it is only if you bring your faith into the square to argue for the sanctity of all human life that you are a christian nationalist, we can discuss the issues instead of debating a label. >> that is good advice and in fact jesus would often ask questions when he was challenged with something to get to the heart of the matter because it exposes what they are saying and what they are doing. it is good advice. michelle i'm going to you with this question, how do we inspire

christians to vote who feel their vote won't count as they see elections as being rigged? >> i think the main thing is whatever we do in life were doing it for an audience of one. and that is the lord. no matter what we need to know that we have voted in a way that would honor him and to me that's also part of the way we live our lives. it's part of the way we worship god. how do we conduct ourselves and the vote is part of that. i will tell you from a political point of view, you can't believe the number of racists -- races that are decided by one vote. you would not think so but actually it happens. for instance in 2020, in arizona it was like 10,000 votes separated biden from trump. something of that same number in georgia.

>> in virginia, eight years ago or so maybe longer, the control of the legislature was decided by one vote. >> that's right. aren't we glad we all showed up and voted for the governor in the state of virginia, glenn youngkin. what a great choice. the lieutenant governor -- >> let me add to that. there's a lot of people that feel like my vote doesn't count and there were a lot of irregularities in the last election but i will tell you this, we had about 19 states bumping up towards two dozen states that have passed election reform measures. they have been working the last two years to address some of these issues and the other thing we need to do, this is why we are doing the pledge. challenge people to pray, vote and stand. we have to overwhelm them and know there's probably going to be some cheating on the others but we are going to show up in such numbers that it does not

matter if they steal a few votes or so, we are going to show up and legally when these races by being concerned, prayed up and engaged. >> one thing i would like to mention, we just completed for the second year in a row 40 years of prayer and fasting at the robertson school of government. we believe in the power of prayer so we just completed it and i read the just today, the supreme court overturned a pennsylvania supreme court ruling so that now errors on both ballots won't be counted that was part of the rigged election last time, where they counted ballots. the u.s. supreme court just ruled today that is not going to happen. that huge victory, i want to urge everyone to pray, pray yourself or get a few people together and just test god on this.

pray and see what he will do. >> just a note on that, a gubernatorial candidate in pennsylvania, doug mastriano called his supporters to 40 days of prayer and fasting. the media use that as evidence that he is a christian nationalist. look it up. that is what we are talking about and that's why we cannot shrink back from these labels that are being assigned. i'm going to go to you dr. hall, you touched on this a little bit in your remarks this comes from one of our viewers. the term christian was originally derogatory in the bible, can we not adopt the term christian nationalism and turn it to good. >> you take it first and then i will let stephen had it. >> i tend to think when you have a term that is created for the purpose of attacking you that it

does not become real until you respond to it. then once you respond to it you are captured by it so everything from that moment forward -- there is actually a methodology involved in this not just an opinion. the minute you respond to critical race theory now that is all you're talking about and it is a serious defense or the entire narrative. making a right to have a defense -- i might take -- my take on it would be you don't engage it all and recognize it as an information campaign designed to delegitimize you and your very response to it in that narrative in any way is a defeat and you are now managing the defeat. >> dr. hall? >> i think it's very imprudent and i know some of the people attempting to do this, solid christians and academics saying we should claim this. no it is not and it is not historically been our label, it is a term of the critics and i think it is so polluted that

let's let it be. we are christians engaging in politics, we are advocating for liberty and justice for all, for all americans and not just for christians. we are not christian nationalist and we are not interested in me called christian nationalist. >> dr. i want to go back to you on something you're talking about with critical race theory. steven from a standpoint of critical race theory and how that has mobilized a lot of americans because they realize what their children were being indoctrinated with, right here in virginia is the epicenter of that battle over public education. i want to be clear we should not educate ourselves on what the left is doing with this term christian nationalism, we should not adopt their label just as we would not adopt crt as a good curriculum. >> i think he would say if i respond by saying i am not a

racist then you are on the defensive, that is what i'm talking about the other way is it takes a little time to figure out how to maneuver this space, the other way is saying critical race theory is just an attack narrative and we are not going to engage in that and i will tell you why it is and engaged -- attack theory. it is only to delegitimize people they are going after and then you build on that. the phrase that's used in that type of intersectionality attacked is redefining. critical race theory meant nothing when they wrote about it. it only meant something when you responded to it and then the game was on. now you are in quicksand, can you when. maybe but you are in the quicksand and they are not. the other important part is they just made it up so if they lose they will go home every year and come back with a new phrase and be on the attack.

>> dr. hall as the historian here on the stage this question is for you. was the old russian empire christian nationalist where the state was the church in the church was the state, if so what happened to the church in russia? >> this is a fascinating question and i'm going to be involved in a couple panels in washington dc in the next couple months with the institute on religion and democracy. we are inviting scholars from places like hungary and poland. the czech republic, england and france to talk about christian nationalism in those countries. is it similar to what we have in america or is it different. is it pernicious, can it be a force for good. i have to admit i am skeptical that it can be a force for good. i think especially given the history and term over the last 12 or more years. where it has only been used until very recently as something critical of christians who bring their faith into the public

square. i am not very optimistic but i am very interested in learning more. my sense is that in russia you do have a very dangerous conflation of church and state in a way that is entirely unhealthy. we have seen the russian orthodox ministers lessen the russian war machine as it goes in the combat. that sort of thing is very troubling and i hope it is troubling to all of us. we want >> we want to be very clear and i think i can speak for everyone. we are talking about being christians in america and her first allegiance is the kingdom of god but we are proud to be americans, i am grateful that i live in a country where we have freedom. i have served our country and i know many here have served our nation and our military, or law enforcement. that is nothing to be ashamed of. we want the separation of church and state, we don't want the state meddling in the church's business which is where the origin of the phrase came from. but were not going to shrink back about bringing our faith and engaging the public square.

we cannot check our faith at the door it is who we are. i think that ultimately is what the left desires for us to do. disengage and allow their values to dominate the discussion. i want to thank you all for being here. we have many questions but we are going to bring our time to a close tonight. as we do tonight i'm gonna ask each of our panelists, a parting thought as we conclude this evening. then we are going to close her time in prayer. i am going to end and begin with you michelle. will you give us your parting thoughts. >> christian nationalism is a pejorative term, a negative term. we need to understand that but we also need to know they are very specific, they are going after pastors to encourage pastors, don't have fourth of july services don't honor and recognize veterans, don't have things about america or america's founding in your country. this is happening at pastor conferences and different

seminaries so this is happening right now, that is why pastors need encouragement from congregants which is why i am recommending this book and the pastor's book. we need to encourage our pastors to realize america has a wonderful history, a unique godly history. we need to be proud of it and share that with the next generation. >> stephen? >> i think what we're living -- the state we are living in right now, this phrase is liquefied reality. there has been an enormous -- to get you confused about everything. in that state of being confused by everything the marxists call that demoralization campaign. people feel demoralized. it is only a perception and you are allowing that to govern how you feel. i think that christian nationalism is an attack on your identity, it seeks to destroy your identity along with other things.

i think at a certain point there is a patch for the army in basic training and it says this we will defend. sometimes you have to take your guide on, put it on the ground and say this we will defend. >> yes, amen. >> dr. hall? >> i have critiqued this notion that 52% of americans embrace a horrible toxic myth of racism, sexism militarism and that sort of thing. in doing that i am in no way suggesting that racism is not still a problem. that sexism is not still a problem. that we have other problems such as poverty. i think we as christians should be first and foremost in addressing these in our own lives and the lives of our churches and community. many of these problems are best addressed without political institutions. through church and voluntary organizations and that sort of thing. to the extent to which

government should be involved in addressing these real problems. christians must have a voice. we must be active in the public square advocating for peace. for justice. for liberty and equality. equality for all americans. >> and to our wonderful host tonight, pastor gary at parting thoughts. >> unfortunately a lot of this is a war on words and there is another term that is linked with christian nationalism and that is dominion asked, i am not a dominion nest. a dominion nest is wanting government to be king and we know that jesus is going to come again. when the millennial kingdom is established, then there will be one true king who is over all the earth and we will worship jesus. until that happens, all we're saying is christians be aware of the war on words. know what these terms mean. live your life serving and

loving jesus. wanting other people to know jesus. and express your values and let these principles that are governed and guided by god's word to be influenced in the world, instead of the world influencing you. until that day when jesus comes again, we are to be salt and light. so be that salt and be that light to this dark and tasteless world. >> amen. >> well when he is king of kings there will be no elections and there will be no ballot stuffing. it is a done deal and he will be the king of kings. he will be the lord of lords. i want to thank each of you for being a part of this tonight and i want to thank the university and michelle, thank you pastor gary. for hosting us here. it stephen and dr. hall thank you. i want to thank all of you who

have joined us on line the nation. thank you for being here tonight at cornerstone and being a wonderful town hall. a gathering for us to discuss what i think it is extremely important issue knowing how we should address it as we go forward. it's closer time together in prayer if you would let stand together and let's go to the lord our savior. we thank you for our time here together tonight and i pray that there will be a resolve that will come across your people, lord that we would not in any form or fashion deny you but we would live our lives in such a way that we would impact the world around us with your truth and with your love. lord i pray that you would guard our hearts against any anger or bitterness toward those who would attack and assign labels and try to drive us from our citizenship and our participation in this country. we love them as you have

commanded us to do. but loving them does not mean we affirm what they do. if we love them because they are created in your image and there were the of love because they bear your image. but what we do pray for revival in the church in america and an awakening in our culture and a return to truth. and we pray that america would again be a nation that is blessed by you because we obey you. and we pray and ask this in jesus name. amen. good night everyone.

♪