we will start with a look at news headlines and take fewer calls. then former democratic representative martin frost and tony coelho join us to talk about u.s. energy policy. after that, daily beast columnist matt lewis discusses division in the republican party following the midterm election. take part in the conversation. call, send a text message, facebook comment, or tweet. "washington journal" starts now. host: good morning. it is sunday, december 18. as americans look forward to celebrate the holidays, washington took a look back this week on the covid-19 pandemic response and lessons learned. two committees put out reports on the topic, while the biden

administration warned of a covid surge this winter. what do you think were some of those lessons? what is your confidence in government to respond to future pandemics? let's start by discussing last week's newsletter put out by the washington post. i want to remind you of the phone lines to call in. (202) 748-8000 if you are the eastern or central regions. if you are the mountain or pacific region, you can start calling us now. (202) 748-8001. you can text us at (202) 748-8003. find us on facebook.com/csp an, on twitter at @cspanwj. you can start calling in now on

the covid-19 response and let's bring up the washington post's newsletter from last week. the headline says, it is far from certain we will see a pandemic response overhaul. we will scroll down a bit and it says democratic congressional investigators are calling for a significant investment and large-scale changes to efforts to better prepare for the next pandemic. but some advocates and health experts are skeptical that the nation will take those steps. two sweeping reports from democrats in congress followed years of poor planning, chronic underfunding, and inability to curb the coronavirus pandemic at the outset. both offered a spate of recommendations aimed at bolstering defenses, such as increasing public health funding, clarifying federal agency roles during an emergency, and beefing up the

stockpile of medical and protective supplies. but the united states does not appear likely to change its ways after the worst pandemic in a century. partisan bickering has stalled covid aid for nine months. a pair of key senators are lobbying hard for a bipartisan plan to tackle future pandemics to pass before the end of the year, a package viewed as a down payment on what is needed. prospects for sweeping bipartisan legislation next year are dim and a split congress and pandemic that polarized the country. again, we want to hear from you today. definitely start calling in now. wednesday, there was a final select subcommittee on the coronavirus crisis and a former covid-19 vaccine program lead was asked, how many other

viruses could currently be a threat to us? let's listen. >> it was almost lucky that it was a coronavirus and that we had invested money, resources, brains like mine and other people on our team and nationwide and worldwide to study coronaviruses. had it been something else, we may not have been as lucky. so what we need to do is identify potential pandemic threats. we need to be strategic about providing funding in multiple directions, organizations of infrastructure. we need to join together with low income countries to build up infrastructure as well so we can prevent the spread of those threats before they get to the united states. and we need to do this in a way that is expeditious and organized so everyone around the world understands how committed

we are to preventing a pandemic. >> thank you. can you give us an idea of what is lurking out there and how many viruses there may be at this moment? >> there are 24 viral families. summerall just say 22. viral families that are working, meaning they hang out in zoo not it reservoirs, animals that do not necessarily get sick, but with a couple mutations as these viruses evolve they could jump into humans, become infectious, and then spread. that is something we saw with the coronavirus pandemic. >> you do not think we are prepared for that? >> we are not even prepared for our seasonal flu epidemic.

host: that was the former covid-19 vaccine program lead, being questioned by representative jim clyburn, head of that health select committee. let's listen to one more clip, again during the wednesday select committee on the coronavirus crisis. this is a former trump administration health official who was asked with the biggest lesson learned during the covid-19 pandemic was. >> i do not know if there is one large lesson. there are a lot of things globally. domestically, we did suffer underinvestment in the public health system for a long time. it is not just money. it is accountability metrics and leadership. we failed to engage the private sector throughout our preparation and federal agencies

in general performed poorly. all of us need to look at that and reform because that is the root cause. if we do not fix leadership and federal agencies, does not matter. the federal government will fail the country. >> is there any name you think particularly failed to the country? >> i think the cdc had an enormous learning curve and needs to be reformed. in credible people. the organizational culture and operational cabability was below standard, and i want to put the luster back on that. >> let me read the last paragraph from your testimony that you read a few minutes ago because i think this is important. political leadership is why we have elected leaders. you thought that was so important it was the closing point in your presentation and the last hearing this committees

were to have. it is people whose names get put on a ballot who make decisions or people whose names get put on a ballot and then nominate people for high positions in our government who are confirmed by people whose names are on a ballot and who are elected by the people who should be making the decisions. >> that is the point i was making. i think this has been confused of the report. this country needs leadership by elected officials and appointees. >> that is not what happened. it was people who never -- i am sorry. >> you cannot have a person with a narrow focus running a national response. >> i appreciate you making that final point of the presentation because it is right on target. host: that was a former trump administration health official being questioned by ohio rep jim jordan. now we want to hear from you. the question this morning is,

what do you think were some of the lessons learned from the covid-19 pandemic and what is your confidence in government to respond to future pandemics? our phone lines today, if you are in the eastern or central region, we want you to call (202) 748-8000. if you are in the mountain or pacific region, your number is (202) 748-8001. we are ready for calls now. let's go to mark in new york. what are your thoughts on the government response to the covid-19 pandemic? caller: it is a problem with institutions. we the people put people in office. it is we the people who conform the coalitions that get things done. it is always we the people who

set the example. just because you elect a representative does not mean they will serve your best interest. if we are self interested and love each other like a family, sometimes you have a falling out but big families find a way to stick together. the family model for the united states of america for a more perfect union, there is the union. it is the family. go back to when we were founded. it was really smart family guys who were founders -- farmers who convince people not to give up on their own craft. they said, we are getting stuff from elsewhere. let's keep making that stuff better. this is the same old story. we were gentlemen farmers and married to people. we forget before there was a country there were a few really good families and the men and women worked together and often the women said, go on, george.

then -- agyeman made the most of it. he was quite the guy who got around. these were people who were normal people. john adams, his wife, he married well. lincoln married well until she could not handle the pressure. it is the same thing. how do we handle pressure? going to a committee does not work. can you imagine omaha beach, let's stop and have a meeting? it does not work. it is all improvisation. great wars are fought by people who have a plan and the moment you start marching the enemy goes, we are going to bust your plan, but we are going to improvise and you will improvise. when we do not do that, it is simple. we blind ourselves with the fog of war. host: we got your point. let's go now to mike.

mike is in somerville, massachusetts. what are your thoughts about government response to the pandemic? caller: my thought regarding the government's response is it seems like half of the government, the conservative government, decided that basically -- basic reality did not apply because it did not present an advantage to them politically, so i have learned there is a greater sickness in america, a sickness of toxic individuality. we are swimming in socioeconomic decay. you just heard that last caller, a psychopathic diatribe of religion and easy sentiments from 100 years ago based on feelings and emotions and that they do not apply. i learned that half the country

is uneducated and do not care about their neighbor. they will scream about the constitution all day long, but when it comes down to it they just care about themselves. it is apparent. host: what do you think government needs to do? what is the balance between the american individualism that our country was built upon but also public health being something that has to be community-based? caller: i am not sure. i grew up with watching people unite over the space race and all this stuff. the countries to come together more. now it seems like money has hijacked everything. social media has catalyzed a lot of miss information and there are conservatives using this to their advantage. the one constant thing through all of this is that

conservatives are the ones who have denied gay people humanity. they are the ones that deny basic covert science. they are they want to religion into everyone's lives and forcing women to have babies and die. for me, really it is conservatives that are the issue here. i am so tired of people calling in and talking about their mythical god figure in the sky as if we all believe in the same psychopathic as that. i do not want to hear it. keep it to yourself. it has nothing to do with government. get your religion out of my face. disgusting. it is embarrassing. it is shameful. host: let's hear now from stephanie in oxnard, california. go ahead. caller: i like what everyone has

to say. we are supposed to have separation of church and state and we have a right side of government, a left side of government, and in between. that is for checks and balances in the two party system. if we do not keep an eye on each other, they can sidestep people and take all the public funds and strong arm people and use it for whatever they want. if you respond -- one day i want to see my doctor and i went for claritin. i have a breathing problem and i am under threat or being attacked by bullies. it causes me to lose my breath. i wish i wouldn't have to focus on that. anytime i am losing my breath i usually realize i am bullying my own head or someone around me is putting pressure on me, so i have to take response ability myself to control my own

symptoms of what i am going to believe and not going to believe. if i have a few characters around me acting poorly but everyone else is acting well, i know that is a few bad characters, just like on a computer keyboard, so i will avoid those bad characters and sidestep them the way they sidestep me to get what they want for me. that way you do not get exploited as much. you have to focus on the people that are basically good. i have some statistics that have proven well. 80% of people are basically good. 8% are truly people and 12% are corrupted by that people. that can happen to anybody under the right circumstances. and that is why a lot of people, when they want someone to blame because times are difficult, we all do. we say they are cruising for a bruising but that is not really the way to think.

we are a land of laws. host: let's go to edward in iowa. good morning. >> good morning. merry christmas. host: thank you. happy holidays to you. caller: what i learned from covid-19 is not to trust the cdc or fda. for two years my wife and i avoided the vaccine. we finally got the first dose and 10 days later my wife, we were burying her. host: i'm sorry to hear about your loss. are you attributing -- caller: it was covert that killed her. she died from covid. she got it after getting the vaccine. host: i am really start to hear about your loss.

caller: thank you. host: our next caller is jim in north dakota. caller: greetings from stalingrad. it is about eight below zero. i just got my car fired up and deiced and waiting to go out with my siberian husky for a nice ice walk. host: stay warm. caller: i love it out here. people that call the show -- the guy for massachusetts is dripping with hate coming out of the phone. not all of us conservatives go to church. not all of us worship trump. i voted for trump, but i have not been to church for 35 years. i happen to be a militant atheist. i am a follower of christopher hitchens and i love richard dawkins' "god delusion."

stop the labels. it all comes from holocaust denier. you guys with your labels are amazing. you should deal with your hate. host: as a conservative, what is your thought about the synergy or balance between american individualism and coming at a public health crisis from a community perspective? >> good question. that is hard for me to -- my brain is a little frozen from being outside. it is hard to get to really quick. another thing is the things we believe and are always -- democrats hate the things we believe in because we believe in limited government and individualism, freedom from government, things that are antithetical to fascism. we are the furthest thing from

fascist. i will answer your question about covid. one of the things the government did not do is focus on physical fitness. i did not get a vaccination. i had plenty of opportunity. i did not want one. i wanted to see more studies. physical fitness. the reason the government is not focused on that is because we are an obese nation. obesity is what kills you. i have lost 25 pounds. i got my blood pressure under control. i eat good. i do a lot of walking and cross-country skiing. i work out. that is a crucial thing. the government should have focused instead of having children on soccer fields with masks they should have had them in the fresh air two or three times a day during school. the reason government would not focus on that is because we do not want to shame people. but we are and out of shape nation. that is what killed you.

being overweight is one of the major reasons people would die from this. covid -- i know about a dozen people who have it. everyone of them came back and said they felt run down and had a bad cold. if you are in decent shape, you can survive. it is very survivable. host: what you say to the people who lost loved ones who were not out of shape? it was either deadly or had very serious repercussions. what you say to them? caller: the vaccination was available to you. i wore my mask everywhere i went. i social distanced. it is easy because you can go to the middle of nowhere. i did everything i was supposed to do and i feel bad for them. as i said when i called about a year ago, my father and mother died in the nursing home. they were locked in a nursing home in pennsylvania. the last six months of my dad's life, he was not allowed to leave his room.

my mother would have to talk to him from three stories down. my dad would -- i talked to my dad and he said, i feel like a prisoner. when she died, he was like a prisoner, like the men in the iron mask or surgical mask. he was not even allowed to go out to the dining room and he withered away and died because he was a prisoner, like thousands of others that were locked up. he is 93 years old. he should have been allowed to go outside and go to breakfast with my brother. host: i appreciate your call this morning. we have some tweets i want to read to you. this is from anthony perkins. it says, the white house is warning america now about an uptick in viruses this winter. covid-19 and related illnesses. we are unprepared and neglect to take care of our people in the

event of a crisis or pandemic. lessons learned. this is from jason. it says, my main lesson learned is that roughly 75 million americans have the civic maturity of 10-year-olds and refuse any notion of public welfare and the common good if it inconveniences them in the slightest. their political position is essentially, you are not the boss of me. here's a text we received from jess in massachusetts. early in the pandemic, trump tried to ban flights from china to slow transmission in the u.s.. the house speaker called it a racist move but later criticized him for not reacting early enough. what have i learned? keep politics out of our future pandemic responses. i will read one more text from sue from ohio. we have a large portion of citizens that are overweight and have poor diet.

eating healthy is the most aborted thing we should be doing. not much talk on that. also, no investigation as to where covid originated. why in the world not? we want to hear from you. you can call us. if you live in the eastern or central regions, (202) 748-8000. if you're in the mountain or pacific regions, call us at (202) 748-8001. this is bill in wisconsin. you are on, bill. caller: my feeling is people -- i am sitting here in wisconsin now with a bad heart. i have been doing kidney dialysis since 2019. as far as i'm concerned, the people who did not get the covid vaccine -- i have had the first

major does endoscope boosters. i had no ill effects from it. sitting here, we lost two or three of my classmates, who i found out later were not vaccinated. as far as i'm concerned, anybody who did not get vaccinated are retarded. host: ok. let's go to herbert in detroit. you are on, herbert. caller: good morning. the one thing we should have learned from this whole vaccine and this whole pandemic is if you have an idiot running the country when you have a pandemic, thousands of people will die. the man lied to the american people. how many people were infected when he told them it was nothing but a common cold? and they went out the next day and then died?

the man should be in prison. that is my thoughts. host: we have had some talks about covid vaccines. this is an article i want to show you. the headline says, covid vaccines averted 3 million deaths in the u.s., according to a new study. this is an article that was published on december 13. if you scroll down, it says, a study released tuesday by the commonwealth fund shows in the two years of the covid vaccine -- since the first person became a covid vaccine recipients, in those two years the covid vaccine has averted over 3 million deaths in the u.s.. the centers for disease control and prevention estimates that more than one million americans have died from covid-19 since

the onset of the pandemic, but the study results show the toll has been even worse -- had the u.s. relied upon so-called natural immunity acquired through infection as the only defense against the vaccine. without vaccines, the country would have experienced four times as many deaths. 1.5 times as many infections, and 3.8 times more hospitalizations in the time since december 2020. the vaccines also saved the u.s. $1 trillion in additional medical costs. let's go now to more phone calls. this is marshall, calling from nashville. what are your thoughts? caller: i have a list here. i'm trying to go down so hopefully i can get heard. i am a conservative and i want

to hit on this point before i go on. last week, i try to call in several times. the phone rang and rang and i was disconnected. it may be something you want to look at. i feel is the phone is ringing, it ought to be answered. as far as this week, i have pretty much lost any kind of hope i had in government. i know you have to have laws and rules to govern, but this government, this administration, for the first time in my life i have been told you cannot go to church and if you go to church you will be arrested and thrown in jail. i found out i was not essential, even though i was trying to live, pay rent, and eat, i was not essential, so i could not do those things.

because of what the government said. dr. fauci has been bound to lie many times to the government concerning masks or vaccines. we were told one vaccine, that is it. now it is three or four and five or six boosters. governor, -- governor cuomo and your other caller said president trump did what he did and should be in prison. ever, purposely put -- governor cuomo purposely put covid patients in with the elderly. anybody with common sense would know that the elderly and little babies are the most susceptible to the -- to disease. people lost a lot of family members.

you could not even go see them. you had to look at them through a window. governor whitmer was another pro lockdown governor. host: you are in tennessee. how do you think the governor in tennessee handled the pandemic before the vaccine was available? caller: because of covid, i moved to nashville from florida. my business went out of business. my nephew was up here, so i moved up here. i can tell you right now in nashville come at you still cannot go to a mcdonald's or burger king, no type of fast food restaurant and get to the dining room because they have dining rooms closed. the only way you can get a hamburger as if you have a car and i do not have a car. host: we appreciate your call this morning. let's bring up another clip from

that select subcommittee on the coronavirus crisis that met wednesday. this one shows ohio congressman jim jordan talking about the biggest lesson learned being accurate information coming from government officials. >> it is bad enough when you have the truth and do not share it, but what is worse is when you have the truth and you say things that contradict it. dr. fauci told us over the last several years it was not our tax dollars. it was. there is the grant. he toes it was not gain of function. how about this email from the head of eagle health where he says, this is terrific. we are happy to hear that our gain of function research funding pause has been lifted.

dr. fauci told us it was not a lab. it looks like it was. the people he is handing out the money to said it was. that is not to mention the other crazy things he told us, the vaccinated cannot transmit it. he was wrong about those. he told us that masks work and that there is no such thing as natural immunity when it came to this virus. all kinds of things he told us wrong. the lesson we have learned is you cannot trust some of the folks were supposed to give us accurate information because they did not and they knew from the get-go. they knew from the start. i look forward to hearing from our witnesses and seeing what is in this report. we did not get into any of this. the chairman mentioned we cannot look backwards, but we should look backwards because you have a government not giving it to you straight. that is something you have to make sure we understand so does not happen again. we do not want the government

misleading us about a virus. so i'm -- we are going to look at this issue starting next month. we will look into it. we will make sure the country gets the fact they should have had on february 1 three years ago. host: that was ohio representative jim jordan, member of that house select committee on the coronavirus pandemic. next is susan in massachusetts. what are your thoughts? >> welcome to c-span. you do a great job. i believe science is always evolving and i think the country were winging it and doing the best they could during insurmountable issues, but i am

concerned for the future because i read i think the new york times about i think over 90% of the public health medical residencies went unfilled this year and these are coveted positions for future medical doctors and same with the ranks of nurses. i am a believer in public health. i do come from a military family and conservatives who are pro-science and pro-vaccine, especially during the polio period. it was my honor to take a vaccine after researching it and understanding that every medical leader in the world was getting

one. all the public health leaders were getting them. our congresspeople were getting them. our president was getting them. i felt confident that the vaccines were safe, so i have had two vaccines and i have been boosted twice. i have only gotten covid ones. i am in my early 60's and i have a history of bad lungs, so i thought it would be a disaster but i believe being vaccinated helped me. i am concerned about -- i thought it would be this out effect. i work in pharma and i know a lot of mds. apparently the field of public health has the highest degree of personal satisfaction and people, once they train in that field, stay in it for the rest of their working lives. they enjoy it that much. the problem is dealing with the money issue. even though they may close to two under $50,000 a year, they

cannot compete with other medical specialties, so i feel like the government has to throw some incentives and to get people to go into this valued and needed profession because more pandemics are coming. hiv is still raging. we have a raging drug epidemic and public health is really our lifeline. we need public health to be robust. host: let's talk now to randall in washington, d.c.. go ahead. caller: i believe the response was the best response we could have. it constantly changed as knowledge and information improved. what is weird about that, when they would make changes and adjustments, people like jim jordan will call them liars and stuff.

not giving them room for flexibility and to adjust. it was not that they were lying to us. they were just giving us the best information they had at the time. i think the response overall was very good, but we had people denying them in the response. host: that was randall. our next caller is in san francisco. you are on, greg. can you hear us? all right. we are going to have to put you on hold and you can come back to us. let's try roger in pittsburgh. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call.

as far as the covid experience for me, a lot of that was -- i did not have a lot of confidence in the cdc. the reason i'm saying that is because i am a retired social worker. i worked for 16 years as a drug and alcohol counselor, from 1990 to around 2006, 2007. i became aware of the open yard epidemic around 1998, 1999. it was pretty severe then. the numbers were high from what i was seeing and i am not remembering the cdc coming out and -- i do not know what their parameters are for what constitutes an epidemic, but they did not call for an epidemic on the open you epidemic until much later than

1998. i went into the covid thing with that in the back of my mind. i was hesitant about taking the vaccination at first. ironically, life kicked in and i had a neighbor, a nice young lady, who was on dialysis. she had died from covid. that pushed my decision to i will get vaccinated and boosted. i am still here, but i think the way decisions are made by institutions -- they tend to leave a lot to be desired because the timing is so often off. host: you think the government should have acted more quickly? caller: i think the government

was acting as quickly as they could. i will give the benefit of the doubt because i worked in social services for 33 years. i am willing to give the benefit of the doubt that it is an epidemic, a crisis, and they are still learning things. but my experience with the opioid epidemic, really punctuated my thought process on this because i am working in the field and i am seeing the opioid epidemic -- how severe the opioid epidemic was and i was not getting anything from the cdc until years later. i still keep my ear to the drug and alcohol situation because it is currently a very serious problem. host: we are going to move to

another caller. in georgia, let me know if i'm pronouncing an incorrectly. caller: i hear people crying about the government. if you want to look government and the eye, look at your bathroom mirror. the thing i want to say about covid, the analysts said women led countries had less death and cases of covid 19. then mail led countries. -- male-led countries. we as men want to be macho and that don't work. i work with women now who still wear masks. then, we take chances. that is why we got to get this under control. we as men need to come to reality. new zealand, germany, taiwan, and denmark had less covid cases

and deaths because the women leaders in those countries jumped on it right away. they did not fool around. trump called it a democratic hoax. we need to come to a realization. and another thing we found out, we need universal health care. countries with universal health care -- they took the profit out of health care. thank you. host: let's go to another caller, mike in ohio. caller: as far as this covid stuff goes, we know where it originated from. the emails are leaking out. elon musk is letting us know how crooked that building is behind you. we know that obama did not want

any kind of gain of function research in america, so what did they do? vouching -- anthony fauci and his plan go who get royals for every drug they push on us, even the shot, they turned around and funded it in china. host: where are you going this information? caller: i spent 22 years as a military police, i do my investigation. i get online. before they started pulling all the truth and from -- pulling all the truth information, when you tell a lie long enough it becomes a truth. when you do not have a counter live. we understand our government cover this up. if you imagine the whole world sued china? they would go bankrupt. we cannot trust our government.

what are we going to do? eventually the truth will come out, but nobody's went to be held accountable because nobody is accountable in washington for anything. host: ed is in antioch, tennessee. you are on. >> i thought this virus was over with. we are letting 50,000 come into the country that have not been vaccinated and we run around here on c-span and talk about the administration. the biden administration is responsible because they let all these people come across the border with all this covid and we do not know who they is or where they coming from. i do not know what is wrong with them.

we need to really get together because we do not know if they have covid or not. we sit here and talk about who got covid and all this. we need to quit this and come together and make this administration stop all this mess. thank you. host: let's go to lucas in scottsdale, arizona. caller: my thoughts on this -- i think people were listening to the government too much. i think trump made some mistakes . i am more for him than against him, but i think people put too

much trust into the cdc and too much into what their local government was saying. meanwhile, a lot of the local government or even the main government was making money off of all of this. off of all these big covid vaccine people that were coming out and saying stuff. look at people who got vaccinated 5, 6 times and still dying. some callers are saying you just have to stay healthy. the guy was right. your kids -- everyone was stockholm. they wanted you -- they wanted

to isolate everyone and in my opinion that was the wrong thing. i think people need to start thinking more independently and go back to our founding fathers and what they believed in. granted, the world has changed 50 years later, but still some of those values that they came up with i think we need to go back and start teaching. in schools. host: let's bring up a couple more those text messages we received. this is from mike in orlando. he writes, we have to learn how to live with covid-19 the rest of our lives. if you are immune compromised, overweight, diabetes, over 55 years old, cigarette smoker, cancer, you need to take precautions to protect yourself. if you do not, you run the risk

of dying. your choice. this is a post we received on facebook from jordan. it says, are federal, state, and local governments must never ignore the power of viruses to disrupt life and must have early alert systems with up-to-date contingency plans, not only for prevention and control of disease but to include plans that ensure continuity of basic economic employment and stability, other than resorting to complete shutdown. we have more time for more calls. let's bring up rob in new york. you are on. caller: i have a little comment. i was wondering why everyone shot down the use of ivermectin when it works.

go to the computer and type in ivermectin 92%. it is just about a cure. it works. for years, everybody said it is for -- it is a horse medicine and is no good for you. they were lying to you. host: did you receive ivermectin? did you have covid and receive ivermectin? caller: i was able to get my hand on some of it, but i never got covid-19. host: ok. this is carl in augustine, georgia. go ahead. -- augusta, georgia. go ahead. caller: the only reason i'm calling in is because you had jim jordan on that. he was one of those people that

were denying everything from the cdc, from the president. they were fighting against people getting shots, people keeping children home. we done the best we could. our president did the best job he could. i'm proud of the way the country did not follow along with those deniers, so i am grateful for that. i want to thank you again for taking my phone call and i think you are one of the prettiest women on tv. thank you. host: this is randy in kentucky. what are your thoughts on the covid pandemic response? caller: i thought it was handled well. everything was just too late. it is pretty obvious from the start that it was going to

affect the elderly the most. i do not think there was enough precautions taken about that. the florida governor seemed to be ahead of the game. i would vote for him over trump. the other thing on your show this morning has been you hear it so often about churches and separation of church and state and to the covid and how they were shut down and could not go to church or be arrested. to these people know -- do christians know and understand that they are owned by the government? there is no separation of church and state. the state owns you. they bought you with a price. it is called the tax code. it is communism. the commune owns everything. they own your job.

look at all up. these are laws. host: randy mentioned florida governor ron desantis. i want to show you a headline from the washington post. it says, different -- desantis reverses himself on coronavirus vaccines, moves to write of trump. i'm going down to the beginning of the article. it says, early in the pandemic, florida governor ron desantis repeatedly praised president trump for the expedited development and rollout of the coronavirus vaccine. the governor's office pushed for 480 million dollars in tax pen to make resources, including media campaigns promoting the shot, according to state budget documents. desantis even lauded the biden administration for helping expand access to vaccines. we are having more vaccines because of this, which is great, he said, of a federal program

shipping shots to pharmacies in february 2021. this past week, he threw himself into we fleetingly disparaging -- misleadingly disparaging the vaccine, seeking to investigate vaccine makers for fraud. these companies have made a fortune off of the federal government imposing or in -- attempting to impose mandates and a lot of false statements, desantis said at the event wednesday. i think people want to the truth and want accountability. so you need to have a thorough investigation into what has happened with the shots. that is for the governor ron desantis, reversing himself somewhat when it comes to promoting coronavirus vaccines. let's go now to ryan in st. louis.

what are your thoughts? caller: thank you for taking my call. reacting to the article you just read highlights one of the points i wanted to make about these epidemics and pandemics and the politicizing of scientific research and health advice from experts in the world to really distort truth and cause more chaos when we have people in power who do not trust science, do not report science cannot do not understand science and just do not make the most logical decisions based on rigorous -- rigorously studied and analyzed data, so we run into more issues. the penta mike has lasted longer because of the politicizing of scientific information and

making something like getting a vaccine and keeping people healthy a democrat versus republican issue. it is disappointing. i wanted to say it seems like the government is willing to take care of us up until that care and protection bumps up against capitalism and we will always choose to keep capitalism running rather than taking care of our citizens. we see that from health-care to housing to mental health issues to everything. it is all going to come down to how much it costs more than how much it helps people. thank you for taking my call. host: our next caller is patty in connecticut. >> we are just getting over the hurdles of a bad pandemic. we have open borders. open.

and biden is allowing people in without being checked. they are overrun. they cannot even check them out. if they have illnesses or diseases. so they are letting them loose. what is going to come next? i say to the people out there, wake up. call the white house and tell him to protect us. that is his job. protect us and to secure our borders. thank you. host: we have more posts coming in, this one off of facebook. debby says, my personal lesson learned was to wash my hands better and more frequently and disinfect high touch surfaces in my home more often. i am more careful about my actions. forget the noise on social media. that comes with every topic. i just focus on common sense actions that i have incorporated more into my lifestyle. just on twitter says, positive

public health outcomes bring individualism to its finest. ronald says that dr. fauci cannot throw a baseball. jason on facebook says, living in a capitalist world means we could never do any type of efficient mass quarantine. do not isolate nursing home residents from their families. and bernie says, government cannot be trusted. we are taking a few more of your calls as we talk about government response to the covid-19 pandemic. next is paul in iowa. good morning. >> good morning and merry christmas to everybody. what we learned is that we never

should have shut the government down or the country down. masks were ineffective. we had no decline in infections or deaths until the vaccine was there and now they have basically admitted that at first they were saying the vaccine would prevent people from catching it met which it did not do and people are still dying when they get the vaccine, although they do say it was 95% effective, which means 5% of people would not -- it would not affect them. a lot of it was control. the government controlling our lives. what we need to do in the future is do it on a personal basis of how your particular situation is with your health and age and whatever. but i think in the future -- one

thing that bothers me, it was not just the country. it was the entire world that was fooled by this. that is kind of how i feel. >> our next caller is dan in center port, new york. what are your thoughts this morning? caller: here's an interesting point. it really gets crazy. the average american probably knows ivermectin as horse paste correct? but would you know it is also on the world health organization's essential medicines? which is so crazy. all this stuff that has come through and then you go to the washington post article with desantis.

those comments were in the beginning when we did not know what we were dealing with and it was like, get something out there, we need something. we were we were told, you get the shot and you will not be able to pass it on. i did that and i wanted to see my grandchildren, and i work in a health facility, and they said if it two weeks and you can see your granddaughter. then it was like, great. can i see my granddaughter this weekend? give it another two weeks and put on a mask. so, things changed over time and we know a lot more, and i think that is why desantis's position is this was not totally clear. then you look at the comments about the masks. folks, the masks didn't work against covid as well as they thought it did, but there was minimal flu. there is a lot of information

out there. we have been held back from that. but the average american had to go around and circumvent what was coming out in the news to find out the truth. it is not conspiracy theory, it is critical thinking. host: let's hear now -- i want to bring up a clip. this is dr. anthony fauci. he was on cnn earlier this week and he was asked about misinformation in the pandemic response getting mired in politics. [video clip] >> one result of the pandemic is science has become a divisive topic, politicized and weaponized by some people. how do you pull that back? how do you turn that around? >> you know, kate, if i had an easy answer i would give it to you, but it is a very difficult situation. you are absolutely correct, it has been politicized, and it has been politicized in a way that

has cost lives, because if people don't get vaccinated, which unequivocally is lifesaving, because of political ideology or because of misinformation and disinformation, that costs lives. we just have to get the american public, regardless of whether you lean left, you lean right, it doesn't matter at all. we are all in this together, we are all human beings and we are all susceptible to disease that can kill us. if ever there was a time in society when we need to pull together and recognize that the common enemy is the virus, not each other, we've got to get people to appreciate that. i don't have an easy answer for how we are going to do that. but when people's lives are being lost about this, maybe it will shake people up enough to realize we have to start pulling together and not against each other. host: dr. anthony fauci

speaking about misinformation, the latest on the pandemic, and the politicization of the pandemic. but on the others of that, there is actually a bipartisan proposal that is currently pending in the u.s. senate. it is part of the discussion about a long-term spending plan that is still being negotiated and is expected to comeo e floor of congress this week. its lled the prevent pandemics act. i want to over some highlightsf is plan that is proposed by eight democratic senator patty murray, as well as republican senator richard burr. it among other thingwod improve strategy and coordination among public health preparedness agencs, strengthen supply cha and government stockpiles of medical products, it would require the senate to confirm the cdc director and an agencywide, strategic plan it would improve oucabilities to detect and

monitor emerging disease, it would enhance the development of tests, treatments, and vaccines. it would improve public health communication in address misinformation. and revitalize public and community health worker forces. that is the bipartisan pandemic act that is pending before the senate. let's take some more of your calls. bill in mobile, alabama. what are your thoughts? caller: the old english prime minister said there are three kinds of lies. lies, doom lies, and statistics -- damn lies, and statistics. when they say people would be hospitalized more if they had covid, suddenly people were dying of covid even if they had a heart attack. my handyman's nephew was on his motorcycle, a car went over his head, but he was diagnosed with

covid, and guess what? on his death certificate, it said covid. half of his brains were out on the highway. there are some statistical anomalies as a result of those payment plans, but you cannot possibly believe it is truthful that one million people or 3 million people died because of covid that would not have because of diagnoses based on faulty statistics. thank you .that is going to do it host: for us for this segment. coming up from my former democratic congressman martin frost, now with the council for a secure america, will join us to talk about u.s. energy policy and how it impacts global politics. and later, daily beast senior columnist matt lewis will discuss divisions within the group public and party -- within the republican party midterms. we will be right back. ♪

>> tonight on q&a, in his book, university of richmond journalism professor mufti looks at the 1977 seizure of three buildings in washington, d.c. by a group of muslims and their leader. hostages were taken at all three locations. >> it is amazing how this story has receded in the background and we don't talk about it as much. this is the first time anyone has told the story. it hasn't been assembled by anyone for 40 plus years. a lot of it was lost and nobody has thought much about this. some of the records were retained come up with the local court records were lost, including the transcript. but i was able to find or uncover that transcript, and it is thousands of pages, and it was every word spoken by every

witness during the trial, which really helped me, on top of all the other fbi records and everything else that i found in the pages. but that record really helped me piece together the sequence of events in washington those two days. host: shahan mufti and his book "america caliph" tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span's q&a. you gibson to all of our podcasts on the free -- you can listen to all of our podcasts on the free c-span now app. >> on monday, the january 6 committee will hold its last meeting ahead of the wednesday release of their final report on the u.s. capitol. you can watch live beginning at 1:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span now, or online at c-span.org sure to watch all the past hearings in their entirety any type online at c-span.org/january6. >> if you are enjoying book tv,

sign up for our newsletter using the qr code on the screen to receive a schedule of upcoming programs, discussions, book festivals, and more. but tv every sunday on c-span2 and online at book tv.org. television for serious readers. >> are you a nonfiction book lover looking for a new pud cast? try listening to one of the new podcasts c-span has to offer. on cue and a, you will listen to adjusting interviews with people and authors writing books on history and subjects that matter . learn something new on booknotes+. afterwards brings together best-selling nonfiction authors with influential interviewers for wide-ranging our long conversations. and on about book, we talk about the business of books, with news and industries about the

publishing industry. find out of our podcasts by downloading the free c-span now app. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we have with us former democratic congressman martin frost, who is now affiliated with the council for secure america, a nonprofit promoting american energy independence and u.s.-israel relations. we have a second guest who may be joining us in a little bit. but good morning, representative frost. guest: good morning. good to be with you. i used to do this program regularly when i was a member of congress. host: thank you for coming back. you represented a district in the dallas-fort worth area in texas from 1979 through 2005. but i want to talk to you now, tell us about the council for a secure america. what is its mission, how is it funded? give us the background.

guest: it is a 501(c)(3) organization. it was set up a number of years ago. it is a coalition of people from the energy commission in the southwest, primarily texas and oklahoma, but some other states too, and leading supporters of the state of israel nationwide. it has two objectives. one is to promote u.s. energy independence and to do everything we can to make sure we are producing as much as we can, while at the same time exploring alternative energy sources. two, the state of israel is in what is described as a dangerous neighborhood and some hostile states near it, although the relations have improved recently because of the abraham accords. we are interested in making sure america has enough energy for its own needs, and also america continues to support the

democracies in the middle east, our ally israel. host: if you are watching or listening, you can start calling in with your questions or comments for representative frost, or your thoughts about u.s. energy independence. republicans, your line is -- democrats -- and independents -- we will get to your calls very shortly. representative frost, i also wanted to ask, can you explain a little bit more that this? you talked about the council for secure america having multiple missions, but how does that all coalesce together? we have the mission of american energy independence, but you also talked about the u.s. israeli relations. what is the nexus of those goals? guest: israel has been a

challenge for years, although it's situation is stronger in the middle east now than it used to be. but the key to rational american foreign policy is to make sure we have enough energy both for our own needs and to support our friends around the world, and this is particularly critical right now because of what is going on with russia and ukraine. when has happened is russia is trying to blackmail our traditional allies in western europe by cutting off natural gas supplies, making it very difficult for them to heat their homes and deal with their own constituencies. we feel a strong america needs to be able to be strong at home, and also have the energy and resources to combat with the russians are doing with their attack on ukraine. i would also mention that saudi arabia has been an inconsistent

friend of the united states and they have not entered into the abraham accords with saudi arabia -- with israel. saudi arabia rebuffed president biden's request to increase oil production in terms of what is going on in terms of price here in the united states and also because of the way the russians are using energy as a cudgel against our western european allies. they did not agree to increase their production. these are important issues. we need to make sure we are doing everything here at home so that while being concerned about the advisement, we can produce enough oil and gas to take care of their own needs and have energy to take care of our foreign policy. the russians clearly used energy as part of their foreign to threaten people, and we want to be able to use american energy to shore up our friends who are willing to work with us.

host: you mentioned the abraham accords. tell us briefly what it is, and why is it important, in your opinion, that those accords were signed? why are they a good thing? why are they worth preserving and expanding? guest: this was an initiative started during the trump administration and continued during the biotin administration. you have a number of arab states in the gulf region entering into an agreement with the state of israel to resume diplomatic relations, to resume trade relations, and this is something very positive for our country, and it is very positive for israel's future. this was an initiative, a bipartisan issue. it started during the trump administration, has continued during the biden administration. israel has great technology. some of the gulf states are particularly interested in using israeli technology, and have

resumed normal relations with the state of israel. some people thought that would be impossible, but it has happened in we have supported this mission. -- but it has happened and we have supported this mission. host: you recently penned an opinion piece in "newsweek." the headline says "europe approves a rush to green energy demands a too high price." it speaks to what you are speaking of, in the context of russia's war with ukraine. can you tell me a little bit about why you think the u.s. -- do you think the u.s. and the biotin administration is rushing towards green energy? guest: the biden administration clearly supports developments to energy, alternative sources, and we support that. the only point we were trying to make is you cannot do this

overnight. we will continue to rely on natural gas and oil here in the united states and in our relation to other countries for some time. you cannot say tomorrow we are going to stop drilling and rely entirely on renewable fuels. but renewable fuels are important for our country and we support that. but you have to be aware this does not happen quickly. we cited germany's example, that they decided to go strongly to renewables and now the russians are trying to blackmail germany into not supporting the effort against their attack on ukraine. so it is a very important issue right now, and it has been important for some time. we have great reserves here in the united states and we can produce almost all we need domestically, and we can produce some to protect our friends and use this as an element in our foreign policy, and we support

that. some would have us stop drilling right away because of climate change. we are for advancements on climate change. we are pointing out, you cannot do this overnight. you do not turn the ship around instantly. we have to continue to produce, particularly natural gas, which can be exported in the form of natural liquefied gas. right now for a number of our european allies, the russians are trying to blackmail. it is important we support democracy anywhere around the world, and i think this is something people need to point out, and i think it is something you can be for both. you can be for alternative energy sources and for producing as much energy safely in the united states as possible, because it is a great asset for us, particularly in dealing with the russians right now. host: let's go now to some phone

calls. our first color is nancy in wake forest, north carolina. what is your question or comment, nancy? caller: thank you for having me on. wow. animal experiments, anthony fauci, stop animal experience. host: nancy, we are talking about energy independence. do you have any comment related to that? caller: well -- gosh. stop the animal experiments done. guest: perhaps we can talk about that on another occasion. and i would say, i have family in north carolina. i have a daughter who lives right outside chapel hill, a grandson who is getting a masters degree at chapel hill.

i am very fond of north carolina. host: our next caller is grant in the washington, d.c. what is your question or comment on energy dependence? caller: i guess my comments for him to react to is, the abraham scam is all about paying off countries. for example, pressuring morocco and recognizing its seizure of the northern territories in africa. it is about selling weapons to the uae to pressure them into recognizing israel. none of these things really serve any american interests because it links u.s. policy to a country that three human rights organizations have recognized is an apartheid state. there is a book called big

israel, which reveals about $6 billion generated per year to maintain this corrupt relationship with israel, and it is never surprising to see a new organization sprout up trying to keep the wholly unjustified relationship going. host: let's let representative frost respond. guest: this was an initiative, a bipartisan initiative. it started during the trump administration and continued during the biden administration. we have historic support for the state of israel. anything that can improve their relationship with their arab neighbors is important. i am sorry the caller feels that way, but this is a fundamental principle of our bipartisan foreign policy that has existed for years. the organization has existed for 25 years. it is not just something that has sprung up. host: let's hear from timothy in

new york now. caller: good morning. holy cow, i cannot believe we are still on this. it has been 70 years. for the love of god, let israel go. people complain about wasting american taxpayer dollars on countries that are not us, ok? let israel go. when other going to learn to stand on their own? who cares? you want to talk about energy independence, that is fine. i don't know how israel got dragged into this, but if you want to know the truth, i am tired of it. i say let them stand on their own two feet. they don't give us anything, they don't do anything for us. what is the point? can somebody help us out with this? host: can you respond to that? why is the u.s. so invested in its relationship with israel? guest: this is an historic effort on the part of the united

states. we were one of the first countries to recognize israel when they declared their independence with harry truman as president. we supported israel's existence and prosperity through democratic and republican administrations for a very long time. we have a number of joint initiatives with israel, particularly the sharing of intelligence as it relates to the middle east. they are a democracy, they are our friends, and we are not going to walk away from them. host: representative frost, i want to bring up, because we hear the pushback in some of the calls. this is an article from "the jerusalem post." it was written after former secretary of state mike pompeo joined the board for the council for secure america, which you also serve on. it says the council for secure america, a nonprofit promoting american energy independence in

a u.s.-israel relations, announced it has appointed mike pompeo to its advisory board. founded by oil and gas industry and jewish leaders advocates for expanding domestic oil production and reducing the u.s.'s alliance on fuel imported from the middle east. it also emphasizes the importance of the u.s.-israel alliance. other notable members of the organization's advisory board include victoria coates, former u.s. representative tony coelho, and a senior advisor to the mayor of jerusalem isaac appelbaum. during his tenure at the state department, pompeo was known for pursuing policies that were widely considered to be pro israel, playing a major role in relocating the u.s. embassy from tel aviv to jerusalem, and a

series of agreements establishing diplomatic relations between israel, the united arab emirates, and bahrain. do you think that is a good synopsis of this organization? i want to get a little bit more about the u.s.-israel relationship. i think there is so much hesitance or concern over whether the historical relationship over the u.s. and israel has become skewed. can you respond to that? caller: all i can say -- guest: all i can say this it is clearly in the majority position that we continue our relationship in support of israel. our board includes key democrats as well as republicans. bob abrams is a democrat. tony coelho was a democratic congressman who served with me. both of us are former chairs of

the campaign committee. tony was democratic whip. i was chairman of the democratic caucus. there are others who played leading roles in both parties and i believe that is important. this is not a partisan issue. the fact that we have influential people on the democratic and republican parties as part of this initiative is important, and we will continue always as a bipartisan organization. host: let's go to more calls. louis from georgia is on the republican line. what are your thoughts or questions, lewis? caller: i am all in on the american energy policy for all the mass production of energy, including biofuels. i live in the deep south and forestry is a big industrial complex down here. mainly for paper, but i think we could shift that over to the

production of turpentine and fuels that you can burn, and housing applications. and i think we are going to have to move this way. paper is not a sustainable product, and i think the production -- i would like to see a plan to on the eastern seaboard. host: let's go to representative frost on this. guest: the caller is exactly correct. we need to do both, that is the point. it is not an either-or proposition. there may be some years before you can move heavily away from fossil fuels to alternatives. we are not to that point. that is what the point of our

article was, that we have to continue to develop alternative fuels, but we should not walk away from oil and gas at the same time, both for our policy needs in foreign-policy objectives. host: on the independent line is ralph from miami. go ahead. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i noticed that the united states government is calling israel a state, a state of israel. i am wondering if it is a state of the united states, if that is what it is. i also heard that israel gets more money from the federal government than any of the other states, the 50 states in this country, and i wondered if that is true. caller: -- guest: it is an independent country. we often refer to independent

countries as states. this support for israel over a period of years has been significant and bipartisan. both supported by democrats and republicans. we provide both military and economic aid to israel. that is part of our foreign policy and i don't believe it will change anytime soon. but part of our foreign policy is acting in a number of areas, not just israel. we are active all through latin america, eastern europe. i was chair of a special task force for congress after the berlin wall, to help the democracies of eastern and central europe move away. we put money into that. our foreign policy is broad and wide, and we want as many friends around the world as we can. host: on the line from tennessee is sandra calling as a democrat.

what is your question or comment? caller: my comment is this. i believe in this country we have enough natural resources of gas and oil. and i watch all the specials and all the hearings, and there were 4000 companies who have private leases for the government who refused to drill for oil or natural gas to keep prices high, just like the alaskan pipeline, and i don't like that our government leases to private entities to use our federal land and lease our energy to foreign countries. i believe we have enough here. because of the people, when it all comes to greet, this is what has held gas prices up so high, because they refused to drill or take the energy out of our land.

to me, the federal lands belong so the american people, and i feel it should not be leased to private entities for profit, where they sell a lot of our energy to foreign countries. this really upset me. host: let's let representative frost respond. guest: first of all, a majority of the oil and gas produced in the united states is not from federal lands. it comes from lands privately owned. we do provide leases for development on federal lands, but they don't make up the majority of our production. to the extent people have been given leases and they don't drill, those leases ought to be revoked. they shouldn't be able to hold onto those indefinitely. have someone else would like to have police on federal lands. a majority of the energy produced oil and gas is from privately held lands.

to the extent people get leases to development oil and gas on federal lands and they don't use it, they should lose it. host: i want to bring up a question we received for you on twitter from steve. it says, what does representative ross about the future of sustainable fusion, given the recent discovery? caller: -- guest: fusion is a different form of energy. it is experiment to. some people believe that fusion could eventually replace oil and gas. but it is a long way to go before this happens. i think we ought to look at all the alternatives. i don't know how feasible this is. if we can use this type of energy, that is wonderful. but it doesn't happen overnight. this is a long-term project before we bring this online. we should look everywhere we can to make sure we have enough

energy to heat our homes and propel industry in the united states. that is an intriguing possibility, but it is not online yet, it hasn't happened yet. it may happen in the future. let's find out. host: on the republican line is kyle in san ramon, california. caller: hello, mr. frost. i am sorry you are not in congress. they could sure use you there. it would be really nice to have you as secretary of energy. my question is, how sustainable do you think these electric cars are? with all the mining you have to do for lithium and all that, it doesn't seem like it is workable. one more statement from me is i think your approach is a very sensible approach in terms of we should use the resources we have now and develop better resources

later. guest: thank you. let me make it very clear, i am retired. i am not looking to go back into government. i had a nice run.i served for 26 years. let's let younger people move into those positions now. but i thank you for your comments. it is a fascinating business, the way our congress operates. we have gotten very partisan in recent years. i wrote a book on the partisan divide. it was written with former congressman don davis, a republican. this book came out eight or nine years ago, and we foresaw a lot of what would happen in terms of how terribly partisan things have become. i hope we get back to the time where we can work across party lines. some of the most interesting things i have been involved in, and i have been out of congress for 20 years, were done on a

bipartisan basis. years ago, the veterans department did a study of parts of the country with the largest concentration of veterans without a veterans cemetery conveniently located. arlington is only one of the national cemeteries. it wasn't funded. they never requested the money. i was approached by the veterans organizations and asked to take the lead on this. i called and people from the veterans department and said, if you recommended this, why are you not instructing more of these national cemeteries to recognize people who served their country? they said the office of management and budget will not let us put it in the budget. so i said to them, if i can get this into the budget as a congressman, what do you think? they said, if you can get us the money, we can build it. i was able to do this on a bipartisan basis. i joined basis with the republican congressman from new york.

his area was identified as one of the areas we needed. we moved this legislation. we were able to get it in the budget and get it funded, working hand in hand, republicans and democrats, to benefit both of our districts and recognize the service of those who served our country in the armed services. i was involved in other bipartisan initiatives. there was an example in my district a number of years ago, a little girl was kidnapped, molested, and murdered in my district. i was approached by the people in the neighborhood and asked, and by the family. i went back to washington to make sure this doesn't happen to other children. i joined forces with republicans , and i was the lead sponsor of the national amber alert. the little girl's name was amber.

that past. i worked very closely with our republican senator at the time from texas, and we moved this legislation, funding the national amber alert on a bipartisan basis. i hope we can get back to the days where people can work across party lines. i think what has happened in our country is not helpful at all. host: i want to get some of your thoughts on how president biden is handling energy issues, but first, let's hear a little bit from him. this is last month at an event in michigan on steps the administration has taken to shore up energy prices and production since russia's invasion of ukraine. [video clip] >> i got criticized in the face of putin using energy as a weapon. i ordered a largest ever release from the petroleum reserve, 180 million barrels of oil.

i rallied our international partners to come up with their fair share as well. that helped put downward pressure on prices because we were producing more gasoline. that helped stabilize crude oil markets, reduce prices at the pump. i have been calling on energy companies that had the biggest years they have ever had in their history to begin to pass on those savings to the american people at the pump, or they are going to be coming to them. while the prices are lower, they are not low enough. i call on the producers to invest their record profits in america for americans. in america, we can do two things at the same time. we can increase production in the short term while accelerating our transition to a clean energy future. we are going to do that. we are doing that. [applause] host: my first question is, do

you think releasing oil from the strategic oil preserve was a good idea? guest: yes, i do, because it helps stabilize the price of gasoline. it is exactly the right thing to do. now we are replenishing that supply, going into the market and putting more oil back in the petroleum reserve. i think the president has struck the right balance. he wants to do both, and i think that is what is in the interest of our country, to aggressively develop alternative sources of energy while at the same time recognizing that we will continue to use oil and gas as part of our foreign policy and domestically. host: what is your view of the inflation reduction act, which includes 160 $9 billion in clean energy subsidies to help tackle climate change? if you were in congress, would you have voted for it? caller: absolutely. i think it is the right thing to

do. this does not happen overnight. it is important we continue to have enough domestically produced energy to meet our needs right now and to be a part of our foreign policy. you cannot look the other way on this. the russians are horrible in terms of what they do. the only way we can be able to counteract that is to work with our allies in europe, western europe, and make sure they have energy so the russians cannot blackmail them to try and overthrow the government in ukraine. my wife's family came to the united states from ukraine over 100 years ago. i am very sympathetic to ukraine's efforts to promote democracy, and i am not sympathetic at all to the way the russians are using energy as a way to blackmail our allies

and not supporting ukraine. host: let's hear now from mary on the independent line, calling from potomac, maryland. you are on, mary. caller: good morning. i am calling about israel-u.s. relations. i just saw the special yesterday, u.s. and the holocaust, and it was unbelievable what the jews went through in those days. but my problem is with israel today. we are supporting a country that is constantly tearing down homes of the palestinians, taking over their land, taking over their homes, and we are supporting a pariah state like that. why would we want to give any money to israel when every israeli is better than at least

50% of americans here? we need the money here. we should stop supplying to this one states. they are smart, independent people, and they are just taking whatever we are giving, and i think that should stop. i am very sad to see the palestinians going through what they are at the hands of israel. we are giving them weapons. they are using it on them. i cannot believe we are supporting a state like that. host: let's let representative frost respond. guest: i have mentioned this has been a historic bipartisan decision by the united states. not on behalf of the organization i am involved in, but as a former member of congress, i strongly support a two state solution, where the

palestinians have their own state. i hope it will be part of our continuing foreign policy to do everything we can to have a strong israel and provide palestinians their own state. host: our next caller is chris in boston calling as a democrat. caller: if you want to understand the united states support for israel, go to opensecrets.org, and look at the amount of pro-israeli pack money going through congress. this scandalous and probably a violation of the foreign agents registration act. i don't think you're guest thinks for one moment that the people of bahrain, the united arab emirates, morocco, and sudan are in favor of the abraham accords, he is dreaming . all you have to do is look at the world cup and see those palestinian flags flying in qatar.

your guest is nothing more than a shell for israeli interests. have a nice day. guest: i appreciate your comments. it is a tough issue for us as a country because israel is our historic ally in the middle east . again, i will repeat this over and over again. this is the bipartisan policy of the united states. not the policy of one political party. we need to do everything we can to make sure the palestinians have their own state, and i support that, and i hope that will be the continuing foraging policy of the united states -- the continuing foreign policy of the u.s. you can have a two state policy and i wish we would get on with it so we can put this issue behind us. host: we are taking your calls on the u.s.-israel relations, and u.s. energy independence, as well as the nexus.

republicans can call 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. and independents, 202-748-8002. we are speaking with former u.s. representative martin frost, who is with the council for a secure america. let's go to more calls. judy. judy is in yelm, washington, calling as a republican. you are on, duty. --judy. caller: good morning. i was calling about the energy situation. i think most people know about taking oil out of our reserves for our military and we are selling that to china. i believe biden is in china's pocket. i hate to say that about a president, but china is buying

up all our lands, our foreign lands, they are getting our oil. the electric cars and all the parts we need come from china. anytime china wants to do our country and, they turn everything off. i believe biden is in our white house to bring our country down. i hate to say that. i love my country. thank you for allowing me to speak. host: representative frost? guest: i love my country too, and we don't sell oil to china. i don't know where the caller is getting her information. we are in competition with china . economic competition. in i think we need to have a strong policy in dealing with china. i don't like the fact that they steal some of our technology. i don't like some of the things they have done to erect trade barriers.

and i think this administration is doing whatever it can to make sure we stand up to china. china is a strong competitor with the united states. we can't ignore that. at the same time, we have to stand for free trade, we have to stand for not letting china get away with stealing our products, stealing our technology, and i hope this administration, and i believe the administration will continue that policy. that has been bipartisan policy for as long as i can remember. you cannot ignore china. china is a large market, a major economic force. we compete with them and we want to be able to compete on a fair basis and they don't always play the game fairly. host: i wanted to ask you a little bit about criticism of the oil industry. there is this article from a couple of weeks ago on cnn. the headline is, big oil has

engaged in a long-running climate disinformation campaign while raking in record profits, lawmakers find. i will scroll down to the beginning of the article. it's as big oil companies have engaged in a long-running greenwashing campaign while raking in record profits at the expense of american consumers. the democratic led house oversight committee has found after a year-long investigation into climate disinformation from the fossil fuel industry. the committee found the fossil fuel industry is "posturing on climate issues while avoiding real commitments" to reducing greenhouse gas emissions. lawmakers say it has sought to portray itself as part of the climate solution even as internal industry documents reveal how companies have avoided making real commitments. my question to you, representative frost, is have you seen any sign there is true

commitment from the oil industry to transitioning to green energy? guest: i think we need to shine the spotlight on what they are doing. i have no problems with that. first of all, there was a fight to add climate advocates to the board of exxon recently. the insurgents won the battle and put more on the board of exxon to make sure exxon is pursuing alternative energy sources and doing what is right for the country. this is an ongoing issue. the organization i am involved in does not have the support of major oil companies. people who support our organization are basically independents and independents find the oil. major oil companies do their drilling largely outside the united states. people want to dig into this and

see how sincere the major oil companies are about resisting. i have no problems with that. let the sunshine in. host: let's chat with january in bellevue, washington. caller: i was interested in the answer to two questions that were previously posed. but they were not responded to. these double questions sometimes get skipped. the first was on what your opinion and assessment of the viability of the electric cars, the full electric cars, is. i know it is a sacrifice for distance on long road trips, but many of us would be willing for

the inconvenience for a positive outcome. i wondered your opinion on that. the second question asked earlier was, how much financial support do we give to israel? and is it the type of support that we give to poorer countries? what is the purpose of that support, since israel is obviously a well-developed financial hub? thank you. guest: let me try to answer both of those questions. i don't think the electric car issue was actually raised directly. some people commented on that. i think it is fine. let's see how well it goes. i personally do not own electronic car, but i would be interested in seeing how far they can go and how good the technology is. i think people ought to be free

to purchase those cars and we ought to do everything we can to provide financial assistance for the development of that particular energy source. i think it is a wonderful thing for our country. but again, not everybody is going to go to that particular vehicle overnight, and some people will buy them, some people won't. i doubt i will ever buy one, but i might. i am not looking to buy a new car anytime soon. i think it is a wonderful thing for us to do. i wish they had longer range. that is a real issue. we have to make sure we have charging stations located around the country so if someone wants to have an electronic vehicle, they can get their car charged. some go 300 miles and not much further than that. but let's pursue that. we have a large foreign policy budget.

israel receives about 3 billion dollars a year. we spend money all over the world helping countries, poorer countries, friendly countries, and we are not going to walk away from supporting our friends around the world. there was an initiative just the last week where the president met with the leading representatives of major african countries. he pledged economic support for economic development in africa. we are doing some of that in latin america, as well as our friends in central europe. i think it is tremendous that the berlin wall fell and we were part of helping those countries convert to democracy, and we provided as much aid as weak can. we have a role to play in the world. we cannot walk away from that. we are the leading country in the world, but we are being challenged, as one of your

previous colors mentioned, by china. we have to have an aggressive response to china. the foreign policy, we have had a significant investment in foreign aid for a long time, and we want as many friends as we can around the world, and certainly we want to help the poorer nations, and we do that. host: on the line from vicksburg, michigan is john calling as an independent. caller: hi. i laugh every time any politician touts something bipartisan as a good thing. bipartisan to me simply means, and in israel's case has been able to indirectly buy influence on both sides of congress. so, bipartisanship means nothing, as far as i am concerned. thank you for your time. host: final thoughts?

host: guest: i have to disagree with that color. i think -- with that caller. it was bipartisan foreign policy after world war ii that made sure we had the marshall plan, and it helped europe recover from world war ii. there have been a number of things we have done, operating around the world. it is in our interest to have friends everywhere. and to help all kinds of countries, help those in need, those who are allies, and i hope -- i don't have the figures in front of me, but the total amount of money spent on foreign aid is infinitesimal part of our budget. it is not a major part of our budget. we are not going to walk away from the rest of the world. host: we have been talking this morning with former democratic representative martin frost. he is with the council for a secure america. thank you for joining us,

representative frost. guest: please call on me anytime you need someone on a sunday morning. host: coming up at 9:15 this morning, we will hear from matt lewis, who will be discussing the vision within the -- division within the republican party. but first, more of your phone calls. it is time for open forum. call in with any story on your mind this morning. start calling in now. republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. and independents, 202-748-8002. ♪ >> preorder your copy of the congressional directory for the 118th congress. it is your access to the federal government with bio and contact information for every member of

congress. scanned the code at the right to preorder your copy today for delivery in march. it is $29 95 cents with shipping and handling, and every purchase supports nonprofit operations, at c-span shop.org. >> live sunday, january 1 on "in-depth," chris hedges will be our guest to talk about political rolution, war, and incarceration in america. join in the conversation with your phone calls. faceomments, texts, and tweets "idepth" with chris hedges, live sunday, january 1 at noon eastern on book tv on c-spa two.

>> book tv, every weekend on c-span2, features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. carry greenwich's shares her book about two women. on afterwards, an economist offers his thoughts on how the u.s. can avoid what he calls the worst economic catasop of our lifetime with his book. he is interviewed by wall street journal senior writer john helton wrath. watch book tv on c-span2. find the full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at book tv.org. >> "washington journal" continues. host: it is time for open forum.

we want to hear from you, whatever public policy or political comments that are on your mind this morning. as a reminder, republicans, your number is 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. and independents, 202-748-8002. we want to hear from you about whatever news of the day, but i want to point out an interesting thing in the new york times this morning, if you have access to their website or the actual printed paper. it is an entire special section called putin's war that digs into the russian war in ukraine. it says a times investigation based on interviews intercepts, documents, and secret battle plans show how they "walk in the park became a catastrophe for russia." it is great journalism worth

digging into this morning. what is on your mind this morning? our first color is jane -- our first caller is jane. caller: i have a couple issues. americans in california are driving too fast, over 70 miles an hour, millions of them. i would like to see the police force start actually enforcing the 70 mile an hour speed limit with an idea of reducing deaths and saving on fossil fuel, because you burn less per mile. but we have all of these i am a free man people in california who resent they cannot drive more than 70 miles an hour. my other thing is that the shipping in the world consumes

more than 7% of the fossil fuel, but there is no environmental tax and shipping. i would like a. i would like to see a port tax on all ships that arrive in ports in the u.s., canada and mexico. that is about it. host: on the republican line, it is steve. he is calling from alexandria. caller: i wanted to talk about them shutting down all of our oil in the u.s. if we had opened up the oil companies that have been shut down all over, i know some people out here in the widest

that they shut down all of the oil. their whole town has been shut down because they have no oil. they have lost thousands and thousands of jobs. it has caused everything, all of our prices because of the fuel going up for the drivers, the diesel has gone up. the transporting of all of our goods, this is what has caused all of our prices to skyrocket. there is no ending in eight coming until we get energy independent back in the u.s. this war in ukraine is all stimulated from -- basically, it is from biden shutting down our oil here and letting vladimir

putin open up his pipeline, instead of our pipelines. host: all right. we got your point. let's move onto the next. david is in georgia on the independent line. what is your comment? caller: this is open form, so i will cover two point come if you do not mind. i want to speak for just a moment. the people calling in and saying all this stuff about our oil use -- it is the oil companies because they decided to not supply the people with oil. that is plain and simple. and mom has not disappeared. in 12 is in texas.

they wanted to blame it on the windmills. that is crazy. please, get the facts straight. we only import oil that contains -- the oil companies here are two sorry to make enough to put in the gasoline to put in the diesel and people learn about what oil is and how it is done. we are learning. enough natural gas that it would fulfill the supply that we send to mexico every year. all of that natural gas, they cannot use it because plastic is what you make with natural gas. but you can convert that natural gas into propulsion fuel.

they are just burning it out there. if we did get into a national emergency, we could not get the oil through, so let's turn all of those flames to the arctic circle, into jet propulsion fuel. host: we will have to move on to another caller. let's hear from rudy in sun city, california. caller: good morning. my subject this morning is the racial hatred and get tree that has gone on in this country the last couple of years. as an older black man, my biggest concern about it is that there are 700 hate groups and two of the groups are black. i would like to tell them that they are not welcome in this country.

this is to my wife, sisters and brothers out there. that is all you have to do is tell these people that they are not wanted. either this country would be a lot better -- do not do -- just get out and stay, your position is not part of our society. that is my thought. thank you very much. host: on the republican line is john in chicago. caller: good morning to you and to my fellow americans. the answer was camp david. it was jimmy carter. today, as we speak, what if the

chinese are right about taiwan? i think there is some paperwork that says that, and i believe that your last just talked about the berlin wall falling. there was an agreement. all i am saying is that there are things going on and all you have to do is leave. free speech is not free. thank you. host: go ahead. caller: happy advent season. welcome, brittney griner to the u.s., for what it is worth since she had to go to russia to earn an appropriate salary to send back to family in the u.s. we call that remittance. according to the world bank, it

is estimated that from 2015 to 2030, $9 trillion would be remitted for migrant workers. some of the countries in that, you have mexico, china -- you have nigeria, nepal and you have over 70 countries which receive remittance from abroad, mainly in the u.s. $9 trillion. this year alone, it would be over $600 billion that would be remitted for migrant workers. they should have a program for sustainable and orderly migration abroad for a program.

they are not completely out of line with that rhetoric. we have to have an orderly way. you have the visas, which the companies are grappling with in how to get the talent into the country. so, we have to have understanding. $25 billion a year. germany received remittance. these are countries that you would not think they would receive remittance from abroad, but they do. when we talk about the issue of migration and talent and we wonder why the u.s. is in the middle of the pack, as far as education, we have to look at

where we invest our money. do we really value a proper formal education in this country active there are talented people over here that earn a good living. host: that is your point. he mentioned brittney griner. she came home after being released from a russian prison, but she broke her silent after being brought home. this is an article on cbs news.com. it says brittney griner is opening up about her return home for the first time, returning after a prisoner swap with russia. on friday, brittney griner shared a long instagram post about her return to the u.s. and her plans for the future.

let's hear more from you guys. this is zach, calling from cleveland, mississippi on independent line. go ahead. caller: i just want to say one thing to you. i think that this whole thing has been a joke on african-americans. this country was built on our blood. we can afford to spend trillions on other countries. how about leasing land to only african-americans? the plan was to keep us discombobulated so that the money can go to the wealthy elite.

that money goes overseas. $1.5 trillion. j edgar hoover felt like the greatest risk was a black society. when things were looking gloomy -- we have to get behind someone who is more in tune to the average american white, black or whatever. have plans on making sure -- there are two behaviors. but we have the most loyal people. they have not given black people an inch.

thank you. host: on the line from tampa, florida is mark. calling on the democratic line. go ahead. >> i wanted to comment on your segment about covid-19. covid-19 was a new virus. we did not know much about it. we were always learning new things. we can only go off of the information that we had at the time. as we learn more, things would change and announce those things , but one of the most dangerous things and things that happened was president trump was told by his national security advisor's.

he was told that it would be a terrible situation for the u.s. and trump was saying that you just grieved the area and that is how it is passed. it is very tricky and this is debbie stuff, yet publicly, he was saying, one person coming in from china -- it is going to disappear like a miracle. you have to level with the american people. you cannot give them false information to mislead them, where they go out and get themselves infected. i wanted to write -- correct the caller that was still pushing the ivermectin situation. it was last month when there was a peer review study published that concluded that covid-19

showed no measurable decrease in the severity of covid-19. so i think ivermectin is not effective for that. thank you. host: our next caller is joe. caller: i want to talk about the energy thing. we waste more energy than anything. people are lighting up the sky and just wasting. it is all over the world. not to mention the christmas tree light burning everywhere.

trillions of lights are burning, when we should not be wasting energy, when it costs this much. we need this energy. as far as illegal immigration, we have been taken through by the tons out of those countries where the people were coming from. we have been doing it for a hundred years. they grew the food that they needed. they took the food and they are shipping it all to this country. billions of dollars, not to grow food. we should be growing food in this land commode should bring the price of food down, but instead, we choose to talk about illegal immigration and these people are trying to cheat us.

every supermarket in this country is selling bananas. where do you think those bananas come from? it comes from land that people live on and try to feed themselves. thank you for listening. host: i want to let you know that on monday, the january 6 committes fil meeting will be held at . stern. watcovage on c-span and on our free mobile video app or online at c-span.org. , senior colonist lewis. we will be right back.

>> the new 118 congress convenes january 3. republicans will control the house of representatives while democrats retain control of the senate. the new incoming members are younger with an average age of 47 compared to 58 the previous session. the new congress will also be more diverse. new congress, new leaders. live on c-span and c-span2, also on c-span now or online at

c-span.org. middle and high school students, it is time to get out your phones and start recording for your chance to win $1000 for the grand prize by enting studentcam video documentary contests. we are asking students to picture yourself as a newly elected member of congress and tell us what you type priority would be and why. show the importance of your issue. be bold with your documentary. do not be afraid to take risks. the deadline for entry is january 20, 20.3. visit our website.

the up-to-date in the latest on publishing with a podcast about books with current nonfunctioning -- nonfiction as well as industry news. even find them on c-span now, our free mobile app or wherever you get your podcast. >> washington journal continues. host: matt lewis is here with us to discuss divisions emerging post midterm. good morning and thank you for joining us. you are a senior colonist. remind viewers of the type of stories it covers and what exactly is your role? guest: it is solely online.

we are not a newspaper. i tried to provide that new point. i am not the only person providing that viewpoint, but that is my bread and butter. i work -- i only work at places that are called daily. i have been about six. i do not know if there is another daily it has been an amazing ride. host: you focus on the state of the republican party in your column. why do you think the red wave never materialized? guest: it when it -- it went against norms. usually the midterms go the opposite direction.

even though republicans did take the house, it is disappointing for republicans because they did not have the red wave. there are a bunch of reasons, but i think mitch mcconnell is right that candidate quality played a major role in that. donald trump nominated a lot of that were not great so they could win primaries but not general elections. if you have someone like chris sununu and other mainstream republican, if they had been nominees across the country, you would have had a better time. host: do you think the party has responded well to the lessons learned in the midterm, or is it too early to tell? guest: i think it is too early we do see signs that the republican party is moving away

from donald trump and moving towards ron desantis. he won his reelection by 19 points in florida. it is time that they got the message. there are other reasons for concern, if you are a republican. it looks like they are about to reelect the chair, which shows that they are not hitting the panic button. i also think that part of success requires professionalism and competence. usually, the team that is in disarray are the losers. in this case, the republicans won the house but it is unclear if kevin mccarthy will be speaker and if he is, it is unclear if he once to be. it is not an easy job. democrats, the party that lost, they are having this seamless

transition where nancy pelosi is essentially naming her hand-picked successor. so i think that the odds are that republicans will have a crazy, chaotic year leading into the next presidential cycle. host: we want to get to our comments and questions for you. republican -- start calling in now. we will get to them in just a moment. you mentioned the disarray in the u.s. house. you wrote a recent column. you talk about both of their abilities to get things done,

but a point that you made in the column is that while democrats have embraced pelosi, mcconnell vilified. why do you think that reaction is different on the republican side? what does that say about the party? guest: it is not perceived as cool to the elites, but if you look at the results, i think nancy pelosi and mitch mcconnell are the most respected leaders of their respective caucuses. it has gotten harder. it used to be that a speaker of the house or majority leader had all sorts of power that they could leave -- that they could wield. super pac's do not have nearly

as much leverage as they used to have. the fact that they have been as effective as they have has been a testament to them. on one hand, it is an interesting point. you would think that republicans are the party that are more efficient. i think there are two reasons. one is obviously donald trump. i think donald trump is the big difference. nancy pelosi did not have a person at the top of her party, a standardbearer, who was undermining her publicly and spreading chaos. it was easier the other thing i think this is related to donald trump, that the republican party has become a party that does not revere or respect expertise or elites. this is actually an ironic thing

for conservatives, but now the republican party is sort of the party of the antiestablishment, so to speak. that is why, you could argue that mitch mcconnell is the man most responsible for overturning roe v. wade. he is a pariah in his own party. host: let's go to some of those collars. calling on the republican line. what is your question or comment? caller: i am a hard-core republican, but when you have leadership. when you have a government like

a home where the kids have a dysfunctional home, they have a poor chance of performing like other kids, so in america right now, trump is the most disgusting leadership we have ever had, so when we have -- we have problems around the world. we have problems in our own government and i have my own opinions, but anyway, the guy we had on earlier today from texas, when he talks about energy, when you do it from a standpoint, you

maybe have a better way for america. i wish the republicans well as we move on. i will say one thing about trump. with biden and obama, my 401(k) went from 220 252,000. when trump got in office, misguided as he is, my 401(k) went to $300,000. it is not about me. it is about us. he had a better business leadership for america than we have by politicians. that is my answer. host: we wish you a happy birthday.

it sounded like he said economically, trump was good for him, but it send like he is a republican who is ready to move on. what do you think of trump's influence on the party? guest: leadership matters and culture matters. if you look at football, football matters on the field, but you have people who are a bad culture. donald trump barely wins. republicans lose 2018 and 2020 and they underperform in 2022. that is a pretty long track record of losing. and when you are losing, sometimes you fire the coach or

the quarterback. the republican party needs to change. that is where i would agree. i think leadership matters. we can blame the voters, senators and congressmen, but at the end of the day, it sets the tone for what the culture is going to be. host: what about the culture? what about the culture needs to change? guest: a lot how are you going to learn? usually what happens is, if a party loses an election, they accept that they lost and they think, what can we do to fix it? you cannot do that if you do not believe that lost the election. it is hard to have -- to correct

the problem. it might involve mail-in voting, being concerned about early or mail-in voting. you cannot take those steps, but i think that culture is deeper than that. it speaks to things like attitude and caring about people, being competent and not being chaotic. if you have ever read a leadership book, whatever, you go down the list of these leadership gurus and what they recommend and donald trump is the opposite of all of that. trump is 180 degrees different. that has permeated the republican party. host: this is walter calling on the independent line.

caller: yes. thank you. i would like to understand more about the possible scenarios if mccarthy is not selected to be speaker of the house. thank you. guest: i would like to tell you, but i do not know what they would be. people are talking about various members, but the problem is that mccarthy does not yet come as far as we can tell have enough votes to become speaker, but there is no one else who has enough votes to become speaker. one thing about mccarthy is he does have the endorsement of marjorie, did very popular congresswoman from georgia. can she spaying and members to back mccarthy?

there is the possibility that if this goes multiple rounds that you could have anything happen. you do not even have to be a member of congress to be speaker of the house. i could be speaker of the house. donald trump could be speaker of the house. it is unlikely, but a plausible scenario if republicans are not able to nominee and elect the carthy. you could have democrats coming forward and working with a moderate republican for a plan b . i do not think that will happen. i think the smart money is still probably on mccarthy. why does mccarthy want to be speaker? it looks great on the resume. everybody wants to grow up and make their parents in their hometown proud.

being speaker is that, but it will be a thankless job. if he is able to become speaker, the concessions and deals that he will have had to cut on his way there with the slim majority will make it a very thankless and unhappy. host: let's hear from cindy calling from englewood, new jersey. caller: how are you? my question is, we need to have the democrats and republicans get along. this is crazy. my other question is, what is the republican party's plan? what will they do to fight inflation, keep mortgage rates down and taxes?

guest: i do not think i want them to get along. there needs to be mutual respect and civility, but i want them keeping check on each other. as a central right person, i want republicans checking joe biden. i want them checking today's republican party, which needs a lot of checking. it is healthy to have checks and balances. i would say they are not going to do much. that is part of the problem. the majority in the house is going to be very slim. democrats still control the senate and the presidency. i do not think they have a proactive governing agenda anyways. i'm not sure mccarthy put forward his version of the

contract, but it has to do with investigation and oversight. some of it is good and healthy. hunter biden' is laptop is something to look into, but it is not high on the priority list. i think it sets them up for trouble because they are going to be going into the 2024 presidential election without a lot of accomplishments and probably with a lot of chaos. host: our next caller is paul and west palm beach, florida. caller: i just wish -- dissent is probably much less. i hope mr. trump becomes a nominee.

he should be taking them to task. guess: -- get -- guest: i think he could with a 35% that will vote him. how big is the republican primary field? i think if ron desantis can get donald trump in a head-to-head matchup or something close to it , a few candidates running, there is a good chance that desantis could rip the nomination away from trump. candidates running -- i think could win and become the nominee again and once you become the nominee, anything is possible.

i think there are probably some democrats out there who are cheering for him because they think he will be a sure loser and they will be able to mock him. once you become a nominee, all bets are off. host: this is a recent poll that says over 60% of registered voters do not want trump for biden to run in 2024. it says florida governor is reaching far beyond to take command. the national poll of registered voters, nearly two thirds of republican voters and independents who identify as conservative or very conservative, 65% said they want desantis to run for president

and many of them said they prefer him to former president donald trump. that speaks to what you were just saying. guest: absolutely. the thing about ron desantis and that he has the potential to not only get establishment republicans and trump republicans, but also a lot of right-wing, populist republicans. there are a lot of voters in the republican party who voted for trump twice. they like a lot of what trump did, but they would now vote for desantis. i think he is key. i do not think mike is. but i think desantis can. part of it is, he is younger, but if you are a populist, nationalist republican, and you are looking around, donald trump

is putting out videos and he is kind of irrelevant now. ron desantis, say what you will about him, but if you want somebody who is engaged in fighting the culture war, that is what he is doing in florida. the martha's vineyard stunt made a point about immigration, but it was a stunt, let's be honest. discrimination, he has taken on big tax, going up against mickey mouse and disney. he is fighting and he won by 19 points in florida. i think you can cobble together an interesting coalition of republicans who hate trump and people who are republicans who also do kind of like trump. i do not think anybody else could do it.

if ron desantis can get donald trump head-to-head matchup, go ahead. host: let's take more calls. what is your question or comment? caller: my comment is pretty much about governor desantis. i believe that he oversteps his role. there are places, other than tampa, who because of covid have requested people to wear masks indoors. he is now finding those organizations who have chosen to mask and protect each other. i find that a little bit disturbing fact, greatly decision. guest: i agree with the college. as they can -- as a conservative

, the conservative insight that politicians would not go after companies, corporations -- this example would be going after global governments as well. you can make a pretty plausible argument that local communities are better suited to make incisions about public health, not just public health, but the value of their community and what the public wants. it used to be that it was a conservative insight that you cared about local communities and giving them the independence and liberty to make the decision on their own rather than micromanaging it from the top down. i think that there is a lot about ron desantis that conflicts with my personal conservative instincts. i also think he is probably the only person who can beat donald

trump. that will be the ethical conundrum that a lot of people will be facing in 2024, people who are kind of reagan republicans. you may not like everything that he has done, but will you pull the lever for him because he is not donald trump? host: let's go to rob on the democratic line, calling from kansas city, missouri. caller: good morning, everybody. wishing you a peaceful holiday season. desantis, trump, pens, these guys will never be president, not just in 2024, but ever. they will never be president. the teams, that you talk about, talk about the midterm elections, the impact of january 6 and even president that

democracy was at stake. number two, we need to give kudos to millennials and gen z people who voted in numbers and make sure that republicans do not have a good majority. and that the democrats keep the senate. i just wanted to call to mention that and i will do that every single time. thank you for letting me have my comment. guest: one thing that was really interesting, all, it was pretty consistent. it showed that the issues that voters cared more about where inflation and the economy. they were not saying preservation of democracy work will portion either, but it turned out on election day that voters, it seemed like they didn't care about this issue. i am heartened that they care

about the preservation. i'm still curious about the polling not bearing it out. it seems like people obviously care about the economy and inflation. i have always felt that the sanctity of life and now this entity of election transcend everything else. i do think january 6 was a big part. the committee hearings probably played a bigger role than anybody thought. the question is, if ron desantis becomes the nominee, he is somebody who is not located directly, but if two years have passed, at one point, will voters move on and start prioritizing other things? host: i want to bring up a

portion from a farewell address on the house floor on thursday. one of two republicans. let's listen to illinois representative. >> we all swore an oath in this very chamber to support and defend the constitution of the u.s., not a single party or a single man. let us when you this belief. just as lady justice looks upon the constitution one floor below us, we must remove the blindfold of politics of for all american

when executing our duties. republicans once believed that limited government meant lower taxes, but limited government means inciting violence. following a tragic oklahoma city bombing, george h w bush publicly refuted those who used. he came -- in some cases, they justify attacks on the capital as the judgment political discourse. the once great party of lincoln, roosevelt and reagan has turned its back on the ideals of liberty and self-governance. instead, it has embraced lies and seat. host: he was very critical of the party. him and liz cheney, who is not

returning to congress. i think the last of a dying breed. will they be members of congress like them in the future? guest: we do not know. i think that kinsinger and cheney stand out for their courage because they have done the right thing, despite all the incentives in their party. it is possible that we could fix the culture of the republican party, whereby we would incentivize good behavior and virtue, and integrity, and honor. it would make it easier for politicians who are not as brave as liz cheney or adam kinzinger. that is what we should aspire to because when the incentive suggests otherwise, there are only two or so will end up.

the key is to change the incentive as best as we can. it will not happen overnight. the republican party did not get into this mess overnight. it is a culture that allowed donald trump to effectively hijack party. it is probably going to take at least as long to correct. it is like the weight that i have gained during the holiday season. it will probably take just as long to get back in shape. i would vote for liz cheney for president tomorrow. i wish it were possible that the republican party could nominate and elect liz cheney, but that will not happen. maybe somebody like ron desantis, hopefully, may be a step away from trump.

ronald reagan is not walking through that door. host: we will have select committee hearing at 1:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span now and on c-span.org. i want to get to some more callers, but i had to bring up marjorie taylor greene, who represents the other end of the spectrum. what do you see as her role in congress? guest: i think she will be influential. in the old days, when seniority mattered and chairmanship committees mattered, and speakers of the house -- she

would not have gotten elected, number one, but even if she had been elected, she would have been very lonely and weak. now she is one of the most important. she is the face of the republican party in the new year, and part of the reason for that is, she is an important endorser of kevin mccarthy. if he become speaker, he will not owe a lot to her. i think she is one of the top republicans in the country, effectively. host: on the republican line, paul in texas. caller: yes. the border is wide open. that will be all democratic birds. that is all that they are wishing for. it is sad that america will lose it self. i think ron desantis should be president and trump should be

vice president. what happened to america, i do not want it third world country. the people coming here are leaving their country. when are we going to get back to our country? i love america. let's make it great again. please help us. guest: i think we need about ron desantis' stunt with martha's vineyard, but it did call attention to the fact that we have all these border crossings and border towns. the number of migrants who were shipped to martha's vineyard or new york city for that matter are just a drop in the bucket of how many cross the border a day. i do not think they will turn america into a third world

country or vote democrat. i think both republicans and democrats assume that, but they have been proven wrong. the longer people live in america and more prosperous they become, some of them though republican for other reasons. we are seeing a lot of hispanics voting republican because they are not prioritizing ethnic identity. they are prioritizing their status, economically. the republican party is increasingly becoming a populist party that is attempting to cater to working americans, we used to call them the workingman. but i do not buy the notion. i think we need to control the border, but i do not think the main reason is because it will lead to a bunch of democrats and republicans never being able to win again. host: from greenville, north

carolina, we have robert. caller: thank you. if marjorie taylor greene is going to have a lot of power, there is no party. the only republicans, true, honorable republicans, are cheney and kissinger. the rest of the republicans either sided with trump or sat back and never mentioned it, and avoided answering the question, do you think donald trump is a good man to be president of the u.s., when we all honestly know what a criminal, what a grifter, and what he has done to this country. if people like you do not start speaking the truth and going against that, there are only two people in the republican party

who stood up, glad the courage to give up their career and take all the abuse and the threat from the trump administration. only two. every once in a while, mitt romney throws in something, but nobody was willing to put their career and life on the line. it is shameful. we cannot keep going on like this because donald trump fooled the curtain back. host: there are 10 republicans who voted to impeach donald trump, but that means that there were over 200 republicans who did not. generally, republicans have been supportive. what do you think of that notion that most republicans are standing for democracy? guest: i think we should throw some kudos to people like justin

, a former congressman from michigan, and his successor. they opposed donald trump and then lost. liz cheney will not be there next year and neither will kinsinger. i agree with the caller. the only thing i would say is, let's also remember the brave conservative columnist -- i do not like to use the word hero, but there are a lot of people who have been fighting this fight, not in congress, but who have been standing up against trump and trumpism. they have been doing work. they think carrying the mantle of center-right, conservative. the fight goes on.

host: let's bring up another caller, thomas in new york -- newark, ohio. caller: thank you for taking my call. i think o'connell needs to resign. i think he has gone rogue. mcconnell has -- continue -- mcconnell's continued arrogance is outrageous. in 2020 and the first georgia view run of the senate, joe biden offered $2000 stimulus money to the democrat. mcconnell offered zero. he helped murkowski who votes with democrats 40% of the time. i think he is dangerously compromised by his wife's connection to china.

thank you, and i would like to hear your response. guest: i disagree. i think donald trump is the reason that they did not win the senate. he specifically recruited and endorsed the likes of herschel walker and other candidates. donald trump had a lot of money to help republicans. senator rick scott was the chairman of the senatorial committee, which is the campaign arm of the senate caucus. he failed at that. mitch mcconnell spent more money than anybody else on the super pac's that are affiliated and

adjacent. for whatever reason, mitch mcconnell has become very easy to demonize and villain eyes amongst a conspiratorial republicans who do not like or trust establishment. 1960's radicals on the campus. i think mitch mcconnell gets a raw deal. i'm not saying he is inspiring or the next ronald reagan. i'm just saying that he is a guy who likes to win. he is a strategist. he is very practical and pragmatic. i do not have his poster on my wall at home. i just think he is underrated. there are a million people who should be blamed first, like donald trump, the rnc chairwoman , rick scott, who actually ran the senatorial campaign

committee and yet, i do not know why mcconnell gets all of the hate. host: we have been talking to a senior columnist. thank you so much for joining us this morning. i want to remind everyone, once again, on monday, the january 6 committee will host its final meeting on the attack at the u.s. capitol. you can watch live coverage on c-span and you can also watch on our free mobile video at, c-span now, or online at c-span.org. that is it for washington journal, but we will be back tomorrow morning. ♪ >> c-span's washington journal,

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years. a lot of it was lost and no one has thought about it. local court records were lost, including transcripts. i didn't find the transcript and it was thousands of pages by every witness in the trial which would have helped me on top of the fbi records and everything else i found. that record really helped me piece together the sequence of events those two days. >> tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span skew in. you can listen to q and a and all of our podcasts on our free c-span now app. >> congress retus monday and lawmakers face a deadlinto fund the federal government through here to avert the shutwn. the sate plans to take up the